From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:41pm
Subject: Re: Shadow as a todo app

On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Jacob Share wrote:

> 1. On my Visor Prism (OS3.5.2H), as fast as Shadow is, it doesn't
> compare to a quick lookup on the Todo App. My imminent new PDA
> purchase should remedy that.

	Oooooo, which device you going to get?

> 2. This bug that I reported in October and is still bugging me :
> 
> I created a list on the handheld called 'Superlist', and synchronized. I
> then used the new Desktop to make many modifications. I resync-ed and
> verified that my modifications were all on the HH. I then used Import Marked
> Todos to add more items to the list. I then tried to sync and the new
> conduit claims that my file wasn't modified:
> 
> # No changes were made. Natch.

	Thats pretty strange.. that "dirty detection" system is bullet
proof, and theres never been an issue with it, since conduit day one a
year or two back. So you'd be the first....

	As usual.. got any hacks or speedups in place or active?

> Not only that, but having gone back to the HH and trying to move the
> Imported ('Marked Todo') items around Superlist, I clicked the X (close)
> button to close the list and save some of my changes and I got:
> 
> MemoryMgr.c, Line:4340, NULL handle

	Can you send me (privately) the PDB backup of this file?

> I then tried to continue with the rest of the changes I wanted to make and
> got the same MemoryMgr error above when I tried to save at the end.

	Definitely odd and unheard of.

> Almost every time I use 'Import Marked Todos' I get this crash.
> Although I spend more time on Shadow, I check the Todo app more often
> so this really is most bothersome :(

	I've never had any issues reported with regards to Import Marked.

	You probably won't need import marked in a bit..the new auto
import all new todo / datebook items is changing how I think about things
;)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 0:00am
Subject: Re: Shadow as a todo app

> > 1. On my Visor Prism (OS3.5.2H), as fast as Shadow is, it doesn't
> > compare to a quick lookup on the Todo App. My imminent new PDA
> > purchase should remedy that.
>
> Oooooo, which device you going to get?

I know you asked Jacob this, but I just replaced my dying Vx with a Tungstan
T, and Shadow is absolutely stunning on it - especially once I used
Fontbucket to make high density versions of Windows fonts I like.. Being
able to read so very many rows at once is stunning, although I ended up
settling for 16 or so lines and a larger font..


I was so pleased I registered Shadow again as a thank you :)

--- Malcolm

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 0:05am
Subject: Marking items complete

I'm sure once or twice Ive accidentally marked an item in Shadow as complete
by stroking through it with the pen, or similar.. This is when there is no
checkbox visible.. It seems very useful to be able to do that, because then
I wouldnt need checkboxes visible.. but I can't seem to do this on purpose..

Did I imagine this? Or is there some way of "crossing out" an item with the
stylus?

--- Malcolm

From: tes08558 sicora@e...  <sicora@e...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 0:48am
Subject: Re:desktop- A Few Random Thoughts

Jeff,

As a vote of confidence I just want to let you know that I am FINALLY 
going to register the desktop program because I believe you are going 
to do what you say.  The desktop doesn't have to be great, just 
better than it is, and I know you will do that.  Your PALM program is 
the best out there - I know that because I was considering changing 
to a program with a decent desktop and after looking thoroughly at 
them all, ShadowPlan for the Palm is light years ahead of the rest - 
your linking, your tags, the multitude of options (usefuls ones at 
that) are the best.  Thanks for listenning to all the suggestions - a 
loyal customer.

Regards,  Tom

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, tewkyep <gsuper@v...> wrote:
> 
> > How exactly do you sent lists to thought manager?  I would love 
to 
> > have better printing capabilities (eliminating the tables for 
dates, 
> > etc.).
> 
> 	Just an FYI.. some printing options coming soon. Keep bugging
> me. I'm just so flooded with suggestions I'm getting all weak in 
the head
> ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: ROYLE Anthony  <anthony.royle@t...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:03am
Subject: RE: Marking items complete

Malcom,

The shortcut you need is slash-space. This will toggle the checkbox...

Anthony

-----Original Message-----
From: Malcolm Campbell [mailto:malcolmc@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2003 11:05
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Marking items complete


I'm sure once or twice Ive accidentally marked an item in Shadow as complete
by stroking through it with the pen, or similar.. This is when there is no
checkbox visible.. It seems very useful to be able to do that, because then
I wouldnt need checkboxes visible.. but I can't seem to do this on purpose..

Did I imagine this? Or is there some way of "crossing out" an item with the
stylus?

--- Malcolm


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:41am
Subject: Re: Marking items complete

Ok, thats cool, and useful.. But I'm sure I managed to do it by just
dragging the pen over the item.. but that might have been imagination.
Slash-space works well.

--- Malcolm

----- Original Message -----
From: "ROYLE Anthony" <anthony.royle@t...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:03 AM
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Marking items complete


> Malcom,
>
> The shortcut you need is slash-space. This will toggle the checkbox...
>
> Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Malcolm Campbell [mailto:malcolmc@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2003 11:05
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Marking items complete
>
>
> I'm sure once or twice Ive accidentally marked an item in Shadow as
complete
> by stroking through it with the pen, or similar.. This is when there is no
> checkbox visible.. It seems very useful to be able to do that, because
then
> I wouldnt need checkboxes visible.. but I can't seem to do this on
purpose..
>
> Did I imagine this? Or is there some way of "crossing out" an item with
the
> stylus?
>
> --- Malcolm
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:58am
Subject: Re: Desktop

The one desktop feature I really like from Bonsai is the web templating...I've played with that more than once to get quick reports out of a database, and it is sweet. Shadow still holds the gold for the handheld, but I have to admit, that feature has tempted me MORE than once!

/Ed
---
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem!

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 7:53am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

On Monday 10 February 2003 19:41, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 	Tap down onto an item (but not on the checkbox or other
> active parts of it :) and then drag your stylus
> somewhere. ie: Tapping and holding in one spot brings up
> the "glance" window. But tapping, holding, and dragging
> somewhere else starts a drag and drop..

Just like I expected, the obvious drang and drop stuff. 
Well, it didn't work here. 

Since I suspected the Jot demo as the guilty party I removed 
it from my HH, and maybe I did a soft reset, can't 
remember. Back to SP and yes, it worked for the first time. 
:) 

Not without problems, however. Often, while dragging an item 
accross the list, the black item hilight together with the 
flower icon would be left on the screen (it wasn't drawn 
away), so that I got 2 or 3 black bands on my screen, only 
one of them the real one, and the other 2 ghosts.

Also, while dragging, the redrawn text sometimes would 
become low-res (I'm using a TT). So some of the items that 
got dragged over looked low-res, while others still had the 
hi-res font quality. Maybe this happened together with the 
black band ghost problem.

All of the distortions would go away the moment I drop the 
item. The screen redraw fixes it.

Even without the display problems, I can't say SP's drag and 
drop system is very clear. The heavy black item obscures 
the view somehow, and I would prefer to just drag an 
insertion icon around (a short horizontal line). 

Anyway, I installed Jot again and SP would no longer do drag 
and drop, even when Jot is disabled! I'm still not sure 
that Jot is the problem party, so if you like, I'll repeat 
the experiment.

- Robert

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:53pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Robert van der Kamp wrote:

> Just like I expected, the obvious drang and drop stuff. 
> Well, it didn't work here. 
> 
> Since I suspected the Jot demo as the guilty party I removed 
> it from my HH, and maybe I did a soft reset, can't 
> remember. Back to SP and yes, it worked for the first time. 
> :) 

	Ahh, quite. Doesn't jot toggle on and off? (ie: I don't use Jot,
but I do use Grafitti Anywhere :)

> Not without problems, however. Often, while dragging an item 
> accross the list, the black item hilight together with the 
> flower icon would be left on the screen (it wasn't drawn 
> away), so that I got 2 or 3 black bands on my screen, only 
> one of them the real one, and the other 2 ghosts.
> 
> Also, while dragging, the redrawn text sometimes would 
> become low-res (I'm using a TT). So some of the items that 
> got dragged over looked low-res, while others still had the 
> hi-res font quality. Maybe this happened together with the 
> black band ghost problem.

	Yeah, the drag and drop system needs to be redone entirely. I've
just not had time, thuogh I hope to do it soon.

> All of the distortions would go away the moment I drop the 
> item. The screen redraw fixes it.

	By design to cover up the above ;)

> Even without the display problems, I can't say SP's drag and 
> drop system is very clear. The heavy black item obscures 
> the view somehow, and I would prefer to just drag an 
> insertion icon around (a short horizontal line). 

	Thjeres no space between Shadow lines.. we cram them all in
there. It looks great of course.. until you want to insert a horizontal
line. Theres no room. I'm debating what to do about it :/ Space the items
out more (lose a screen row) so drag and drop is easier, or just show the
horizontal line covering up a bit of text.. *shrug*

> Anyway, I installed Jot again and SP would no longer do drag and drop,
> even when Jot is disabled! I'm still not sure that Jot is the problem
> party, so if you like, I'll repeat the experiment.

	It'd be Jot alright :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 3:13pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

On Tuesday 11 February 2003 15:53, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> 	Yeah, the drag and drop system needs to be redone
> entirely. I've just not had time, thuogh I hope to do it
> soon.

That would be nice, if I manage to dump Jot, that is. ;)

>
> > All of the distortions would go away the moment I drop
> > the item. The screen redraw fixes it.
>
> 	By design to cover up the above ;)

I already guessed that, yeah. ;)

> 	Thjeres no space between Shadow lines.. we cram them all
> in there. It looks great of course.. until you want to
> insert a horizontal line. Theres no room. I'm debating
> what to do about it :/ Space the items out more (lose a
> screen row) so drag and drop is easier, or just show the
> horizontal line covering up a bit of text.. *shrug*

Removing a whole line from the display is out of the 
question, imo. We need every pixel we can get, unless it 
can be implemented as a global pref. Why not cover the 
bottom part of the line? A blinking, maybe two pix thick, 
horizontal line should be visible enough. If it starts in 
the title text column, you mostly even have blank space 
since not all chars use the full height. And you could draw 
in the second half of the title column to indicate the 
shild relation. On color devices a bright color (like red) 
could be used for the insert line.

>
> > Anyway, I installed Jot again and SP would no longer do
> > drag and drop, even when Jot is disabled! I'm still not
> > sure that Jot is the problem party, so if you like,
> > I'll repeat the experiment.
>
> 	It'd be Jot alright :)

My guess too. Maybe I should go back to GA. Problem is that 
I can't get it to enter punctuation mode without trying 60 
times. But that's another story.

- Robert

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 4:33pm
Subject: Drag and drop.. should be.. how?

I've been meaning to revamp drag and drop for awhile. I've even
started tooling up for it.. the code is prime to be changed quickly. But I
need to nail down what we're talking about. (In case you're curious, 2.8
is all about making things easier to use :)

	The "common" drag and drop method is to make it so when you drop
an item *on* another item, it goes as a child of that specific item.
Dropping an item between two items puts it there as a sibling. For
example..

A
B
C
D

	Dragging "D" on top of B makes it:

A
B
.	D
C

	While dragging "D" between "B" and "C" above would be:

A
B
D
C

	To show you're dragging *on* an item, you reverse it (sort of like
we do now). To show you're between two items, you draw a horizontal
line. I've already implemented the rendering in my development version.

	So is this how we want it?

	(Plus the usual Shadow feature that if you drag off the top or
bottom of the screen, it tries to scroll for you)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Ken Gordon  <KenGordon@t...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 4:44pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop.. should be.. how?

I would prefer this over the way it is now.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 09:33 , Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>
> 	To show you're dragging *on* an item, you reverse it (sort of like
> we do now). To show you're between two items, you draw a horizontal
> line. I've already implemented the rendering in my development version.
>
> 	So is this how we want it?
>
Ken Gordon

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop.. should be.. how?

On Tuesday 11 February 2003 17:33, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 	So is this how we want it?
>
> 	(Plus the usual Shadow feature that if you drag off the
> top or bottom of the screen, it tries to scroll for you)

Sounds great to me Jeff.
I replaced Jot with GA, so I'm waiting now, heh. ;)

- Robert

From: Scott Holmes  <ScottHolmes@e...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:28pm
Subject: Re: Jot and ShadowPlan

I use Jot v1.21 on my Handspring Visor Prism and I can drag and drop in
ShadowPlan v2.7.1  

Of course this is an old PDA using 
   Palm OS v3.5.2H1.5

I also remember reading that the next Palm OS (v?.?) will be an OEM version of
Jot for pen input.

_____Scott H.


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Jot and ShadowPlan

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Scott Holmes wrote:

> I use Jot v1.21 on my Handspring Visor Prism and I can drag and drop in
> ShadowPlan v2.7.1  
> 
> Of course this is an old PDA using 
>    Palm OS v3.5.2H1.5
> 
> I also remember reading that the next Palm OS (v?.?) will be an OEM version of
> Jot for pen input.

	PAlm OS 5.2 will include something akin to Jot (but not
Jot). (ie: No writing anywhere at all.. writing still in grafitti areas is
needed. Not all the optional characters of Jot, etc.)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: CAH Hotmail  <charlepp@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:34pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

Robert: are you using the latest Jot version? It's 2.0, and if you haven't upgraded, which is a pain (they send you a link for the file after you answer 1/2 a dozen questions) you should.. 2.0 is far more stable and compatible with current OS;...and Shadow
Chris
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert van der Kamp 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop


  On Monday 10 February 2003 19:41, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
  >       Tap down onto an item (but not on the checkbox or other
  > active parts of it :) and then drag your stylus
  > somewhere. ie: Tapping and holding in one spot brings up
  > the "glance" window. But tapping, holding, and dragging
  > somewhere else starts a drag and drop..

  Just like I expected, the obvious drang and drop stuff. 
  Well, it didn't work here. 

  Since I suspected the Jot demo as the guilty party I removed 
  it from my HH, and maybe I did a soft reset, can't 
  remember. Back to SP and yes, it worked for the first time. 
  :) 

  Not without problems, however. Often, while dragging an item 
  accross the list, the black item hilight together with the 
  flower icon would be left on the screen (it wasn't drawn 
  away), so that I got 2 or 3 black bands on my screen, only 
  one of them the real one, and the other 2 ghosts.

  Also, while dragging, the redrawn text sometimes would 
  become low-res (I'm using a TT). So some of the items that 
  got dragged over looked low-res, while others still had the 
  hi-res font quality. Maybe this happened together with the 
  black band ghost problem.

  All of the distortions would go away the moment I drop the 
  item. The screen redraw fixes it.

  Even without the display problems, I can't say SP's drag and 
  drop system is very clear. The heavy black item obscures 
  the view somehow, and I would prefer to just drag an 
  insertion icon around (a short horizontal line). 

  Anyway, I installed Jot again and SP would no longer do drag 
  and drop, even when Jot is disabled! I'm still not sure 
  that Jot is the problem party, so if you like, I'll repeat 
  the experiment.

  - Robert

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:48pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

On Tuesday 11 February 2003 22:34, CAH Hotmail wrote:
> Robert: are you using the latest Jot version? It's 2.0,
> and if you haven't upgraded, which is a pain (they send
> you a link for the file after you answer 1/2 a dozen
> questions) you should.. 2.0 is far more stable and
> compatible with current OS;...and Shadow Chris

Yes, I was trying a demo of Jot v2.0. The moment I install 
it on my TT, even if not enabled, Shadow will no longer do 
drag and drop. I just found out that if I do a soft reset 
(while Jot installed but disabled), Shadow will do drag and 
drop. 

However, the moment I enable Jot, drag and drop is gone, 
even after a soft reset. It's too bad, since I prefer Jot 
over Graffity Anywhere (because of the puntuation mode 
problem), but Jot + Shadow seems to be a no no. 

- Robert

From: CAH Hotmail  <charlepp@c...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:14pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

What's your setup? I'm on an NR-70 with 4.1 and the latest Shadow 2.7.9, and Jot doesn't interfere at all with any Shadow functionalities....but maybe OS 5 makes a difference...you might want to contact CIC and see what they say...
Chris
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert van der Kamp 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop


  On Tuesday 11 February 2003 22:34, CAH Hotmail wrote:
  > Robert: are you using the latest Jot version? It's 2.0,
  > and if you haven't upgraded, which is a pain (they send
  > you a link for the file after you answer 1/2 a dozen
  > questions) you should.. 2.0 is far more stable and
  > compatible with current OS;...and Shadow Chris

  Yes, I was trying a demo of Jot v2.0. The moment I install 
  it on my TT, even if not enabled, Shadow will no longer do 
  drag and drop. I just found out that if I do a soft reset 
  (while Jot installed but disabled), Shadow will do drag and 
  drop. 

  However, the moment I enable Jot, drag and drop is gone, 
  even after a soft reset. It's too bad, since I prefer Jot 
  over Graffity Anywhere (because of the puntuation mode 
  problem), but Jot + Shadow seems to be a no no. 

  - Robert

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:50pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

Shadow 2.7.9 ? Where can I get the latest version? (I'm registered 
and now using 2.7.2).
Jeff also mentioned a mailing list for beta testing. I guess it's 
hidden on the codejedi page but where? (Uh yeah maybe I'm blind:)

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "CAH Hotmail" <charlepp@c...> 
wrote:
> What's your setup? I'm on an NR-70 with 4.1 and the latest Shadow 
2.7.9, and Jot doesn't interfere at all with any Shadow 
functionalities....but maybe OS 5 makes a difference...you might 
want to contact CIC and see what they say...
> Chris
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Robert van der Kamp 
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:48 PM
>   Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop
> 
> 
>   On Tuesday 11 February 2003 22:34, CAH Hotmail wrote:
>   > Robert: are you using the latest Jot version? It's 2.0,
>   > and if you haven't upgraded, which is a pain (they send
>   > you a link for the file after you answer 1/2 a dozen
>   > questions) you should.. 2.0 is far more stable and
>   > compatible with current OS;...and Shadow Chris
> 
>   Yes, I was trying a demo of Jot v2.0. The moment I install 
>   it on my TT, even if not enabled, Shadow will no longer do 
>   drag and drop. I just found out that if I do a soft reset 
>   (while Jot installed but disabled), Shadow will do drag and 
>   drop. 
> 
>   However, the moment I enable Jot, drag and drop is gone, 
>   even after a soft reset. It's too bad, since I prefer Jot 
>   over Graffity Anywhere (because of the puntuation mode 
>   problem), but Jot + Shadow seems to be a no no. 
> 
>   - Robert
> 
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:05pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

Replying to my own msg: I've discovered the mailing list just had to 
look around a bit... shadow 2.7.9 is not officialy released isn't it?

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "darkoem <darkoem@y...>" 
<darkoem@y...> wrote:
> Shadow 2.7.9 ? Where can I get the latest version? (I'm registered 
> and now using 2.7.2).
> Jeff also mentioned a mailing list for beta testing. I guess it's 
> hidden on the codejedi page but where? (Uh yeah maybe I'm blind:)
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "CAH Hotmail" 
<charlepp@c...> 
> wrote:
> > What's your setup? I'm on an NR-70 with 4.1 and the latest 
Shadow 
> 2.7.9, and Jot doesn't interfere at all with any Shadow 
> functionalities....but maybe OS 5 makes a difference...you might 
> want to contact CIC and see what they say...
> > Chris
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: Robert van der Kamp 
> >   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:48 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop
> > 
> > 
> >   On Tuesday 11 February 2003 22:34, CAH Hotmail wrote:
> >   > Robert: are you using the latest Jot version? It's 2.0,
> >   > and if you haven't upgraded, which is a pain (they send
> >   > you a link for the file after you answer 1/2 a dozen
> >   > questions) you should.. 2.0 is far more stable and
> >   > compatible with current OS;...and Shadow Chris
> > 
> >   Yes, I was trying a demo of Jot v2.0. The moment I install 
> >   it on my TT, even if not enabled, Shadow will no longer do 
> >   drag and drop. I just found out that if I do a soft reset 
> >   (while Jot installed but disabled), Shadow will do drag and 
> >   drop. 
> > 
> >   However, the moment I enable Jot, drag and drop is gone, 
> >   even after a soft reset. It's too bad, since I prefer Jot 
> >   over Graffity Anywhere (because of the puntuation mode 
> >   problem), but Jot + Shadow seems to be a no no. 
> > 
> >   - Robert
> > 
> >   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service. 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: bstryd610 bstryd@a...  <bstryd@a...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:23am
Subject: FontBucket selections not sticking

Jeff and et. al.,

I am using Shadow 2.6.6 and FontBucket 1.35. I can make the 
selections for font size in Shadow preferences and it all looks fine. 
However, once I leave Shadow and return, the fonts are no longer 
selected and have returned to native. Has anyone else run into 
this "quick exit?" Thanks.

From: tanker_bob rmattes@c...  <rmattes@c...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:36am
Subject: Re: FontBucket selections not sticking

Have you tried SP 2.7.2, the current version?

Regards,
Tanker Bob
http://www.tankerbob.com/palm/
Global moderator at http://www.pdaavenue.com/

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "bstryd610 <bstryd@a...>" 
<bstryd@a...> wrote:
> Jeff and et. al.,
> 
> I am using Shadow 2.6.6 and FontBucket 1.35. I can make the 
> selections for font size in Shadow preferences and it all looks 
fine. 
> However, once I leave Shadow and return, the fonts are no longer 
> selected and have returned to native. Has anyone else run into 
> this "quick exit?" Thanks.

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:45am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

On Tuesday 11 February 2003 23:14, CAH Hotmail wrote:
> What's your setup? I'm on an NR-70 with 4.1 and the
> latest Shadow 2.7.9, and Jot doesn't interfere at all
> with any Shadow functionalities....but maybe OS 5 makes a
> difference...you might want to contact CIC and see what
> they say... Chris

That's what I will do when I've lost all hopes on Graffity 
Anywhere. 

Thanks,
Robert

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 0:32pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop.. should be.. how?

> To show you're dragging *on* an item, you reverse it (sort of like
> we do now). To show you're between two items, you draw a horizontal
> line. I've already implemented the rendering in my development version.
>
> So is this how we want it?
>
> (Plus the usual Shadow feature that if you drag off the top or
> bottom of the screen, it tries to scroll for you)

How about also that if you drag an item onto itself (ie, drag right while
staying on the same item), it marks the item complete. That would let you
mark off items by just stroking through them with the pen..

Or would that be too much of a pain for the "Ive grabbed the wrong item and
dont want to move it" situation?

--- Malcolm

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 1:16pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop.. should be.. how?

On Wednesday 12 February 2003 13:32, Malcolm Campbell wrote:
> > To show you're dragging *on* an item, you reverse it
> > (sort of like we do now). To show you're between two
> > items, you draw a horizontal line. I've already
> > implemented the rendering in my development version.
> >
> > So is this how we want it?
> >
> > (Plus the usual Shadow feature that if you drag off the
> > top or bottom of the screen, it tries to scroll for
> > you)
>
> How about also that if you drag an item onto itself (ie,
> drag right while staying on the same item), it marks the
> item complete. That would let you mark off items by just
> stroking through them with the pen..

Hmm, that would free the space for the checkbox column for 
more title text. Additionaly, this would be a much more 
reliable way to check off an item than tapping the 
checkbox, in combination with those speedy filters that is.

>
> Or would that be too much of a pain for the "Ive grabbed
> the wrong item and dont want to move it" situation?

Well, when combined with the cross out feature you get a 
good visual feedback. And you could repeat the stroke to 
undo it.

My first response was yuck, but I like the idea now.

- Robert

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, darkoem <darkoem@y...> wrote:

> Replying to my own msg: I've discovered the mailing list just had to 
> look around a bit... shadow 2.7.9 is not officialy released isn't it?

	No; 2.7.9 is an alpha. Once I get a bunch more goodness in there,
it'll likely come out as Shadow Plan 2.8, but 2.7.9 is only halfway there.
Those interested can join shadow-test mailing list :) We never post URL's
to the alphas except there.. don't want peopel to get alphas when they
think they are public releases.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 4:21pm
Subject: Re: FontBucket selections not sticking

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, bstryd610 <bstryd@a...> wrote:

> Jeff and et. al.,
> 
> I am using Shadow 2.6.6 and FontBucket 1.35. I can make the 
> selections for font size in Shadow preferences and it all looks fine. 
> However, once I leave Shadow and return, the fonts are no longer 
> selected and have returned to native. Has anyone else run into 
> this "quick exit?" Thanks.

	This means that likely your "application preferences" are a little
broken. Upgrading may cure it, but may not. Deleting the application and
installing it again may cure it depending on your launcher, but is a lot
of work :( If you're using Launcher X (for example), when you delete the
app you can specify "keep the application and databases, but just delete
the preferences". Then you'll just run it, enter your registration code,
and you're back in business. I don't know of a way to flush the
preferences using the built in offhand :(

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: John Basinger  <imjb@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:43pm
Subject: Filters using Specific Dates

2002-11-21 John Basinger wrote:

I would like to:
1) filter items with target dates <, = , or > than a specific date
2) filter items with target dates between two dates (e.g. a filter with two rules: target date >= 12/01/2002 AND target date <= 01/31/03)


2002-11-22 Jeff wrote:

> I never figured filtering for specific date was useful.. ie: The
> filter would be used for one day and not likely later, and I want the
> filtering system to be useful for general re-usable filters. When I add
> more date filtration stuff, I'd like to support a more general date system
> than "this date" or "that date" which isn't all that useful very often.
> Adding "from here to there" is a fair amount of work, and the other sorts
> of date things are work too. So I expect to add some more date stuff, but
> it'll likely be a little while due to complexity.


2003-01-07 John Basinger wrote:

I would like to re-present for consideration a request to modify the filter manager so a specific date can be entered when creating a filter for the Target Date, Start Date, or Finish Date fields.

I appreciate the desire to create generally re-useable filters but I would like to reconsider the assumption that creating filters using specific dates would not be generally re-useable. I would like to set up the rules using project milestone dates and they would be reuseable for the duration of the project.

I have been able to use tags that duplicate the date information to accomplish what I need but this means I have to maintain the information in two places.

I considered reordering my lists by date so that all of the activities within a project milestone are grouped together but then I would have to set up tags so I could see things associated with specific 'deliverables'.

Would the requested changes be difficult to implement? If not, could this functionality be made available until a more complicated solution is developed?

2003-01-08 Jeff wrote:

> Perhaps something we can do in 2.8?
> 
> Can you remind me again in a week or two? (I know, here I am,
> maker of task management software asking people to remind me. Ironic?
> Really, its a defense mechanism.. if you care enough about a feature,
> you'll bug me again. It tends to get rid of ideas someone doesn't care
> passionately about. Also, I'm very stretched on time right now, so I'm
> playing cat and mouse ;)
> 
> I would like to do something along these lines.


2003-01-22 John Basinger wrote:

I would like to be able to use the 'choose' date function to create a custom filter. A couple of weeks ago you asked me to remind you about this - please consider this to be the reminder.

2003-01-23 Jeff wrote:

Keep bugging me. That was in my original design (the system can support it), but never implemented.

2003-02-12 John Basinger writes:

Hi Jeff - another reminder - the ability to create filters using specific dates is still a need for me.

Thanks!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:59pm
Subject: Filter Help

While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use" Shadow 
you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter 
interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom 
filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used things 
like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols. . .

And what does != mean anyway??

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:19pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, PocketGoddess wrote:

> While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use" Shadow 
> you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter 
> interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom 
> filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used things 
> like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols. . .

	Screen is too small :) Seriously, does "<" bother some people?

> And what does != mean anyway??

	Not equal to. Sort of like "<>" for "other than".

	The "Easier to use" so far means a new tabbed interface for list
prefs and global prefs, and a new drag and drop system as lightly
detailed yesterday or the day before. I can't go too far as I've got the
other stuff to work on (Mac, etc), but I wnated to get some of this in
there while I've got a chance. Also some Handera improvements are in
(virtual grafitti). Hmm. Some other goodies :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>	Screen is too small :) Seriously, does "<" bother some people?
>  
>
It does me! But if you tell me which one is which (< and >) it might 
bother me less!

>	Not equal to. Sort of like "<>" for "other than".
>  
>
Thanks-- that makes a little more sense!

>	The "Easier to use" so far means a new tabbed interface for list
>prefs and global prefs, and a new drag and drop system as lightly
>detailed yesterday or the day before. I can't go too far as I've got the
>other stuff to work on (Mac, etc), but I wnated to get some of this in
>there while I've got a chance. Also some Handera improvements are in
>(virtual grafitti). Hmm. Some other goodies :)
>
I know, I've been reading "test" and anxiously awaiting the betas! I'm 
just too chicken for "alpha."

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:33pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

i'm with Jen on an easier filter system!
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:00 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help


While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use" Shadow 
you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter 
interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom 
filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used things 
like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols. . .

And what does != mean anyway??

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:35pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

I vote for the cryptic symbols...saves space...and by the time we reach
a point we can use shadow, we should all know our symbols anyway.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Giberson [mailto:kevin@g...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:33 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> i'm with Jen on an easier filter system!
> Kevin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:00 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> 
> While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use"
Shadow
> you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter
> interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom
> filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used
things
> like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols. .
.
> 
> And what does != mean anyway??
> 
> --
> 
> Jen
> 
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

Griff wrote:

>I vote for the cryptic symbols...saves space...and by the time we reach
>a point we can use shadow, we should all know our symbols anyway.
>  
>
They do save space, but sorry, I'm not going to feel guilty for asking 
for a little help!  I'm a writer and a theologian, not a mathmetician!

Wait, I must be having a Star Trek flashback!!  I'm a doctor, not a . . .

:)

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: fehrmantool edf@f...  <edf@f...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:41pm
Subject: "In Line" Editing

I enjoy how robust and powerful Shadow is, but one thing I notice is 
that when I'm brainstorming or taking alot of notes I feel like I'm 
slowed down by double tapping and entering each tree items "edit 
window".

Other outliners (Outliner, Arranger) I have used seem faster when 
entering/editing tons of raw data... mainly because (to me anyway) 
they allow "in line" text editing.  You can quickly jump from one 
item to another and begin adding/editing text right where you tap!

Of course my big request is still the ability to export percentages 
and dates, BUT right after that I would really love to see in place 
editing.  I think this would prove to be a nice productivity 
enhancment.

PS: then GANTT chart after that ;-)

Thanks,
Eric

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:45pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, PocketGoddess wrote:

> >	Screen is too small :) Seriously, does "<" bother some people?

> It does me! But if you tell me which one is which (< and >) it might 
> bother me less!

	Dobbs, you must really hate arithmetic :)

	OKay, remember that "<" looks like an "ell" tilted a little. The L
stands for "Less than" :) OR another way to remember is that its a small
side on the left, and big side on the right, when you look at the <
thingy. So you can see itmeans that the left is smaller than the right.

> >	Not equal to. Sort of like "<>" for "other than".
> Thanks-- that makes a little more sense!
> 
> >	The "Easier to use" so far means a new tabbed interface for list
> >prefs and global prefs, and a new drag and drop system as lightly
> >detailed yesterday or the day before. I can't go too far as I've got the
> >other stuff to work on (Mac, etc), but I wnated to get some of this in
> >there while I've got a chance. Also some Handera improvements are in
> >(virtual grafitti). Hmm. Some other goodies :)
> >
> I know, I've been reading "test" and anxiously awaiting the betas! I'm 
> just too chicken for "alpha."

	Ahh, hehe. My alphas are pretty stable, generally. I thibk 2.7.9
is a pretty solid alpha.. it'd be beta except I'm goign ot beta after I
get the new drag and drop stuff finished.. probably early next week.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:47pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

Disagree with Griff's comments.  Shadow is easy to learn, but the custom
filtering is a pain to figure out.  Should have some generic written stuff
where one can simply insert the name of a tag, etc. to filter various
ways...i can figure it out, but the average user likely just never goes
there.
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Griff [mailto:lists@t...] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:36 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help


I vote for the cryptic symbols...saves space...and by the time we reach
a point we can use shadow, we should all know our symbols anyway.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Giberson [mailto:kevin@g...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:33 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> i'm with Jen on an easier filter system!
> Kevin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:00 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> 
> While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use"
Shadow
> you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter
> interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom
> filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used
things
> like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols. .
.
> 
> And what does != mean anyway??
> 
> --
> 
> Jen
> 
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:52pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

Yeah, but how hard is it to remember the Pac-Man theory of signs?  

I don't know why Jeff chose !=, over <>, well I do, because programmers
use != all the time in code.  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:39 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> Griff wrote:
> 
> >I vote for the cryptic symbols...saves space...and by the time we
reach
> >a point we can use shadow, we should all know our symbols anyway.
> >
> >
> They do save space, but sorry, I'm not going to feel guilty for asking
> for a little help!  I'm a writer and a theologian, not a mathmetician!
> 
> Wait, I must be having a Star Trek flashback!!  I'm a doctor, not a .
. .
> 
> :)
> 
> --
> 
> Jen
> 
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:56pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

Ease of use doesn't come from the signs tho.  I think something that
could make it easier is the ability to edit a line within the filter.
If I make a mistake, I have to delete that line and recreate it.  I'd
prefer to double-tap and edit it. 

Also perhaps more dialog in the (i) would help. 

So you'd like some predefined, editable, custom filters?  AN interesting
idea.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Giberson [mailto:kevin@g...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:48 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> Disagree with Griff's comments.  Shadow is easy to learn, but the
custom
> filtering is a pain to figure out.  Should have some generic written
stuff
> where one can simply insert the name of a tag, etc. to filter various
> ways...i can figure it out, but the average user likely just never
goes
> there.
> Kevin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Griff [mailto:lists@t...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:36 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> 
> I vote for the cryptic symbols...saves space...and by the time we
reach
> a point we can use shadow, we should all know our symbols anyway.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Giberson [mailto:kevin@g...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:33 PM
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> >
> > i'm with Jen on an easier filter system!
> > Kevin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> >
> >
> > While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use"
> Shadow
> > you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter
> > interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom
> > filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used
> things
> > like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols.
.
> .
> >
> > And what does != mean anyway??
> >
> > --
> >
> > Jen
> >
> > http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> > 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:59pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

Seems /= might be more intuitive than both!
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Griff [mailto:lists@t...] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:53 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help


Yeah, but how hard is it to remember the Pac-Man theory of signs?  

I don't know why Jeff chose !=, over <>, well I do, because programmers
use != all the time in code.  

> -----Original Message-----




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:11pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> Disagree with Griff's comments.  Shadow is easy to learn, but the custom
> filtering is a pain to figure out.  Should have some generic written stuff
> where one can simply insert the name of a tag, etc. to filter various
> ways...i can figure it out, but the average user likely just never goes
> there.

	I'm half tempted to add a button to the *Tag* Manager.. "Make
filter from tag". This would just spuit out a filter called "Filter of
Fred" (say), and its only rule would be "Select all that have tag
Fred". Then you could tailor the filter to your needs.

		jeff

> Kevin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Griff [mailto:lists@t...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:36 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> 
> I vote for the cryptic symbols...saves space...and by the time we reach
> a point we can use shadow, we should all know our symbols anyway.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Giberson [mailto:kevin@g...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:33 PM
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> > 
> > i'm with Jen on an easier filter system!
> > Kevin
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> > 
> > 
> > While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use"
> Shadow
> > you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter
> > interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom
> > filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used
> things
> > like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols. .
> .
> > 
> > And what does != mean anyway??
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Jen
> > 
> > http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> > 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:10pm
Subject: Re: "In Line" Editing

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, fehrmantool <edf@f...> wrote:

> I enjoy how robust and powerful Shadow is, but one thing I notice is 
> that when I'm brainstorming or taking alot of notes I feel like I'm 
> slowed down by double tapping and entering each tree items "edit 
> window".

	Just start writing/typing.. the detail or mini-editor will pop up
automatically.

> Other outliners (Outliner, Arranger) I have used seem faster when
> entering/editing tons of raw data... mainly because (to me anyway)  
> they allow "in line" text editing.  You can quickly jump from one item
> to another and begin adding/editing text right where you tap!

	The OS doesn't support inline editting in a high res environment.
Some Shadow people are in "low res" mode, while others are in "high res
mode". The OS cannot do inline editting in high res mode.

> Of course my big request is still the ability to export percentages
> and dates, BUT right after that I would really love to see in place
> editing.  I think this would prove to be a nice productivity
> enhancment.

	The mini editor gives 9 out of 10 pluses that inline editting
gets.. the only one its missing is that the editting is at the bottom, and
not the middle of the screen.. so you miss locational context. But you get
all the other advantages.

> PS: then GANTT chart after that ;-)

	Doh :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:15pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>	I'm half tempted to add a button to the *Tag* Manager.. "Make
>filter from tag". This would just spuit out a filter called "Filter of
>Fred" (say), and its only rule would be "Select all that have tag
>Fred". Then you could tailor the filter to your needs.
>
That would be GREAT!!! Sure would make things a lot easier-- I'm trying 
once again to use Shadow as a to do replacement and more fully implement 
GTD. Put that in, along with a couple of other things like "child 
inherits parent to do link category" and automatic linking of "next 
actions" and I'd be really happy!

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:18pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

i think that would be an excellent addition since tags are such a major part
of your program now days!
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:12 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help


On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> Disagree with Griff's comments.  Shadow is easy to learn, but the custom
> filtering is a pain to figure out.  Should have some generic written stuff
> where one can simply insert the name of a tag, etc. to filter various
> ways...i can figure it out, but the average user likely just never goes
> there.

      I'm half tempted to add a button to the *Tag* Manager.. "Make
filter from tag". This would just spuit out a filter called "Filter of
Fred" (say), and its only rule would be "Select all that have tag
Fred". Then you could tailor the filter to your needs.

            jeff

> Kevin
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Griff [mailto:lists@t...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:36 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> 
> 
> I vote for the cryptic symbols...saves space...and by the time we reach
> a point we can use shadow, we should all know our symbols anyway.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Giberson [mailto:kevin@g...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:33 PM
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> > 
> > i'm with Jen on an easier filter system!
> > Kevin
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 10:00 AM
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help
> > 
> > 
> > While we're dreaming, I'm curious if part of that "easier to use"
> Shadow
> > you mentioned a couple of days ago will include a simpler filter
> > interface. I find it pretty frustrating to try and set up custom
> > filters. Maybe it's my math phobia talking here, but if you used
> things
> > like "less than" or "greater than" instead of those cryptic symbols. .
> .
> > 
> > And what does != mean anyway??
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Jen
> > 
> > http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> > 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"Have you played Atari today?"


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: fehrmantool edf@f...  <edf@f...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 7:53pm
Subject: Re: "In Line" Editing

> Just start writing/typing.. the detail or mini-editor will pop up
> automatically.

Thats true for NEW items... I like that feature alot!  But when 
jumping back and forth between EXISTING items and editing, it sure 
would save a few taps to be able to edit or enter text right where I 
tap in a line.

>The OS doesn't support inline editting in a high res environment.

Bummer.  I only use low res, would it be worth making the function 
even if iot would only work in low res?  Maybe a future PalmOS will 
support it?

>The mini editor gives 9 out of 10 pluses that inline editting

The ME is good, but it really only applies to creating NEW items.  
When you want to edit an existing item, you must double tap the item, 
tap where in the text you want to begin editing/adding, then tap 
done,... roughly 4 taps.

With in place editing you tap an item at the spot where you want to 
edit/add, edit your text and your done... 1 tap.

Again, this is not as mission critical to me as the "exporting 
enhancments" but it would be when editing/jumbling/brainstorming alot 
of data.

As always, thanks for listening!!

Eric

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, PocketGoddess wrote:

> >	I'm half tempted to add a button to the *Tag* Manager.. "Make
> >filter from tag". This would just spuit out a filter called "Filter of
> >Fred" (say), and its only rule would be "Select all that have tag
> >Fred". Then you could tailor the filter to your needs.

> That would be GREAT!!! Sure would make things a lot easier-- I'm trying 
> once again to use Shadow as a to do replacement and more fully implement 
> GTD. Put that in, along with a couple of other things like "child 
> inherits parent to do link category" and automatic linking of "next 
> actions" and I'd be really happy!

	You don't need auto-link if you're using auto-import-all-todos
right? (in the current alpha) You can just use Shadow as your ToDo list
then. Outlook and DateBk5 ToDos would flow right in..

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: "In Line" Editing

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, fehrmantool <edf@f...> wrote:

> > Just start writing/typing.. the detail or mini-editor will pop up
> > automatically.
> 
> Thats true for NEW items... I like that feature alot!  But when 
> jumping back and forth between EXISTING items and editing, it sure 
> would save a few taps to be able to edit or enter text right where I 
> tap in a line.
> 
> >The OS doesn't support inline editting in a high res environment.
> 
> Bummer.  I only use low res, would it be worth making the function 
> even if iot would only work in low res?  Maybe a future PalmOS will 
> support it?

	I don't like having something that only works in one "mode"..
leads to confusion and fills up my mailbox :) Palm OS will not likely
support it.. since our high res is sort of a trick. Palm OS wants high res
to just be higher detail, but no more information. (Better looking fonts,
for instance, but same physical measured size on screen). With us doing
high res cram.. its not really where the OS is going. So it messes it up
to put an entry field on a high res display in our tricky high res mode.

	Also.. in Shadow, you tap to select an item. If you want a tap to
drop a cursor down.. how would you select an item? How would you drag and
drop it?

	Its a whole different way of doing things.. having two ways to
operat the app is again a sure way to confuse everyone.

	Really, theres two camps.. the way we do it, and the inline way.
They're both equally good.. just some people want the other one :( The
mini editor does a pretty good approximation. Going all the way is a lot
of trouble :(

> >The mini editor gives 9 out of 10 pluses that inline editting
> 
> The ME is good, but it really only applies to creating NEW items.  
> When you want to edit an existing item, you must double tap the item, 
> tap where in the text you want to begin editing/adding, then tap 
> done,... roughly 4 taps.
> 
> With in place editing you tap an item at the spot where you want to 
> edit/add, edit your text and your done... 1 tap.
> 
> Again, this is not as mission critical to me as the "exporting 
> enhancments" but it would be when editing/jumbling/brainstorming alot 
> of data.
> 
> As always, thanks for listening!!

	No problem :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 8:15pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>	You don't need auto-link if you're using auto-import-all-todos
>right? (in the current alpha) You can just use Shadow as your ToDo list
>then. Outlook and DateBk5 ToDos would flow right in..
>
>  
>
I tend to create to dos in Shadow and then link out to Agendus. Shadow 
is for all of my planning, Agendus just for the pretty views. Maybe if I 
can figure out filters though, I won't need Agendus as much. But I like 
the icons, default color by category, etc.

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: fehrmantool edf@f...  <edf@f...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:54pm
Subject: Re: Filter Help

> It does me! But if you tell me which one is which (< and >)

OK, I hope this doesn't sound too stupid, but my Dad taught me this 
when I was in elementary school and it always stuck with me so maybe 
you will find it helpful.

Picture the "<" symbol as the mouth of the "fish"... the fish always 
wants to "eat" the bigger number... I know you must be laughing at me 
now :(

example:  x > y

see X is "greater than" Y

Example:  a < b

A is "less than" b

Hope that helps.  If I misunderstood your post please excuse me!

Eric

From: tarasofsky Tarasofsky@t...  <Tarasofsky@t...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:55pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Issue

Oh yes, I know that post-2.5 Shadow is very good, because that is 
what I use, although it still managed to lose/duplicate some of my 
data.  You kindly helped me out on that occasion, but the result is 
that I am very shy about making big changes on the desktop - which is 
a bit of a shame.

Richard



--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:

> 	Multiple desktops is not a problem for Shadow at all; it was a
> problem in Shadow Plan 2.5 and prior, but the conduit in Shadow 2.6 
and
> later is some serious stuff. The only known issue is the one where
> deleting a parent implies deletion of the children (which have been 
moved
> away), and that is an extrenmely complex issue to narrow in on 
(trust me
> ;), and I'm working on it :)
> 
> 	If you had problems with Shadow 2.5 or earlier, I'd suggest 
trying
> the new conduit stuff out. Its spiffy.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:59pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

I would second all those requests by our Goddess!  ; )

Kevin

 

Kevin S. Giberson

Law Offices of Kevin S. Giberson

262 East Lake Avenue

Watsonville, CA  95076

Tel:  831/722-4500

Tel:  831/419-7551

Fax:  831/722-4535

email:   <mailto:kevin@g...> kevin@g...

(Santa Cruz, Santa Clara, and Monterey Counties)

-----Original Message-----
From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:16 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help

 

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>      I'm half tempted to add a button to the *Tag* Manager.. "Make
>filter from tag". This would just spuit out a filter called "Filter of
>Fred" (say), and its only rule would be "Select all that have tag
>Fred". Then you could tailor the filter to your needs.
>
That would be GREAT!!! Sure would make things a lot easier-- I'm trying 
once again to use Shadow as a to do replacement and more fully implement 
GTD. Put that in, along with a couple of other things like "child 
inherits parent to do link category" and automatic linking of "next 
actions" and I'd be really happy!

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: KSG  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:07pm
Subject: RE: Filter Help

I think they are different.  The auto linking of next action would put the
next action item in the to do database once the item above it was completed,
right?  This is the GTD concept we discussed a couple weeks ago and you
asked to be reminded about it.  Looking for the simple use of it as
discussed, not every possible thought out option or scenario right now.
Child of a parent completed, the next child links out to the to do.  Ignore
unless the child of a parent is completed.  Start with first child and work
downward.  Up to the user to rearrange if one is checked lower.

 

The auto link just brings all to do items created in the to do program back
to Shadow.  The idea above is to limit what Shadow sends out to the to do
list program.  Sort of a filter.

 

Kevin

 

Kevin S. Giberson

Law Offices of Kevin S. Giberson

262 East Lake Avenue

Watsonville, CA  95076

Tel:  831/722-4500

Tel:  831/419-7551

Fax:  831/722-4535

email:   <mailto:kevin@g...> kevin@g...

(Santa Cruz, Santa Clara, and Monterey Counties)

-----Original Message-----
From: PocketGoddess [mailto:jen@p...] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:16 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Filter Help

 

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>      You don't need auto-link if you're using auto-import-all-todos
>right? (in the current alpha) You can just use Shadow as your ToDo list
>then. Outlook and DateBk5 ToDos would flow right in..
>
>  
>
I tend to create to dos in Shadow and then link out to Agendus. Shadow 
is for all of my planning, Agendus just for the pretty views. Maybe if I 
can figure out filters though, I won't need Agendus as much. But I like 
the icons, default color by category, etc.

-- 

Jen

http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!







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From: KSG  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 12, 2003 10:13pm
Subject: RE: Re: Filter Help

Eric:

I can see y being able to eat x, but b looks too big for a to eat.  Am I
missing something?  ; )

Kevin

 

Picture the "<" symbol as the mouth of the "fish"... the fish always 
wants to "eat" the bigger number... I know you must be laughing at me 
now :(

example:  x > y

 Example:  a < b

 
Hope that helps.  If I misunderstood your post please excuse me!

Eric

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: vjornes vjornes@y...  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 13, 2003 0:18am
Subject: Re: "In Line" Editing

> > With in place editing you tap an item at the spot where you want to 
> > edit/add, edit your text and your done... 1 tap.
> >

Jeff, just a reminder - a while back you said you'd look at locating
the cursor in the mini editor at the same point in the text where the
main item was (double)tapped.  Hopefully thats still on your Todo list ;-)

Thanks.

From: vjornes vjornes@y...  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 13, 2003 0:36am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop.. should be.. how?

> My first response was yuck, but ...

Ditto - It seemed silly but after Roberts expansion of the idea it
could be useful.  I dont 'think' I'd use it myself but who knows.
I'd have expected a horizonal drag left/right would just
promote/demote one level.  However, since SP requires a diagonal drag
anyway, this new functionality wouldnt loose anything.
A potential problem would be a not quite horizontal drag (or not quite
diagonal).

If this is adopted it would have to be VERY CLEARLY explained in the
manual - just having to do a diagonal drag to promote/demote confused
the chuff out of me initially - I ended up using the buttons for the
longest time.

From: vjornes vjornes@y...  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Thu Feb 13, 2003 0:54am
Subject: Re: Desktop Issue

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> "Install to handheld" just sets the file to want to upload to the
> handheld, if the file does nto exist on the handheld next sync. (ie: If
> you rename or delete it on the handheld, and ask the desktop to send up
> the file, you'll be set)

Seems a lot of messing about to assure data integrity.  Would "copy
desktop over handheld" in the conduit options work?  (Of course you'd
have to make sure you havnt modified any other HH lists).

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 13, 2003 1:07am
Subject: Re: Re: "In Line" Editing

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, vjornes <