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9501

From: Ken Stuart  <kstuart@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 10:37pm
Subject: Re: How to use Shadow as mentioned in Getting Things Done

 
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:55:17 +0100, "Peter Bulthuis" <bulthuis@c...>
wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'am reading Getting Things Done from David Allen. He gives a lot of useful
>tips about getting things done quickly. Now, I want to integrate his ideas
>in Shadow. But, what's the best way to do that? Are there people on this
>list, using David Allen's method with Shadow?

Actually, there is a different list for that (although you might also want to
use this list for discussing minor details in Shadow implementation).

That other list can be found at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GtD_Palm

where GtD_Palm stands for " [implementing the book] Getting things Done [using
a] Palm [OS device]".

PS  The site above has archived files and posts about implementing GtD using
Shadow Plan.


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...
9502

From: aschell98 aschell@p...  <aschell@p...>
Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 10:38pm
Subject: Re: Creating new links?

 
> it'll switch to the ToDo application (or whichever youv'e set) and 
tell it
> to load up that item. You can set up a preferred application for 
todo,
> datebook, memo and address gotos. WordSmith doesn't understand any 
of
> those, so it can't receive the gotos. (It only knows DOC files)
> 
> 		jeff


Actually, setting Wordsmith as the memo goto app works fine.  Since 
Wordsmith works as a Doc and Memo editor, it knows to use the memo 
database when it gets a memo call.
9503

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 10:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 
While its a good idea not to take these discussions too personally, the
first rule of brainstorming is that no idea is wrong or "not as good" as
another. You can miss exceptional innovations by dismissing an idea as
"fluff". Just food for thought.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Ken Stuart                                                                                     
                    <kstuart@e...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    net>                 cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the        
                    02/06/2003           desktop...                                                                
                    04:34 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 21:32:46 -0000, "fehrmantool <edf@f...>"
<edf@f...> wrote:

> BUT please lets not call some of
>the ideas being discussed "fluff".  One man's "fluff" is another
>mans "critical function".

On the other hand, an idea is NOT a person.

No idea is ever proven, it simply has a consensus in society or it doesn't
(cf
the Flat Earth people).

I've searched, but I can't find anything more dangerous and destructive
than
when people identify with ideas, when they say "I am that idea".

It seems to me that 9/11 was directly caused by that.

So, if someone says that an idea is "fluff", it is not the same as saying
that
person is "fluff".

But then again, these are all just my ideas...


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...

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9504

From: Peter Bulthuis  <bulthuis@c...>
Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 10:53pm
Subject: Re: How to use Shadow as mentioned in Getting Things Done

 
Thanks for the tip!


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Stuart" <kstuart@e...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Peter Bulthuis" <bulthuis@c...>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] How to use Shadow as mentioned in Getting
Things Done


> On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:55:17 +0100, "Peter Bulthuis" <bulthuis@c...>
> wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >I'am reading Getting Things Done from David Allen. He gives a lot of
useful
> >tips about getting things done quickly. Now, I want to integrate his
ideas
> >in Shadow. But, what's the best way to do that? Are there people on this
> >list, using David Allen's method with Shadow?
>
> Actually, there is a different list for that (although you might also want
to
> use this list for discussing minor details in Shadow implementation).
>
> That other list can be found at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GtD_Palm
>
> where GtD_Palm stands for " [implementing the book] Getting things Done
[using
> a] Palm [OS device]".
>
> PS  The site above has archived files and posts about implementing GtD
using
> Shadow Plan.
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Ken
> kstuart@e...
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
9505

From: ROYLE Anthony  <anthony.royle@t...>
Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 11:01pm
Subject: RE: Re: Secondary Text Field

 
> On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, Timothy Woerner <TEWoerner@m...> wrote:
> 
> > A quick button on the screen to expand or collapse would be great.
> 
> 	Both desktop and handheld have a few ways of quick
> expand/collapsing... did I miss something in the conversation? :)
> 
It's the expand and collapse of the tags/links, not children. The only way I've found to do it is have the link column visible, and it's a submenu option on that. It was bugging me because I knew SP could expand the tags to all be visible in the listview, but since I rarely have the link column visible, I couldn't work out how to do it!

Anthony
9506

From: veb8 veb8899@f...  <veb8899@f...>
Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 11:06pm
Subject: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "fehrmantool <edf@f...>" 
<edf@f...> wrote:
> I know all of us have different needs, some of us are handheld-
> centric... some are desktop-centric BUT please lets not call some 
of 
> the ideas being discussed "fluff".  One man's "fluff" is another 
> mans "critical function".
> 

Hi Eric

As another person who wants more action on the desktop side, you make 
some excellent points. I know my thinking was as I was seeing all 
these features added to the handheld side, that it seemed to be way 
beyond what any other palm outlining program had so therefore, it 
must be fluff.  But of course, that is not correct as you so 
rightfully point out.

I also greatly appreciate how tactful you were.  YOu recognized the 
various needs of the listmembers while pointing out what you still 
needed the handheld side of Shadow to do for you and why it 
wasn't "fluff".  It is a skill that many people could learn.

Vivian
9507

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 11:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003 smasters@a... wrote:

> While its a good idea not to take these discussions too personally,
> the first rule of brainstorming is that no idea is wrong or "not as
> good" as another. You can miss exceptional innovations by dismissing
> an idea as "fluff". Just food for thought.

	Besides, I have been a Flat Earther ;) (and a "Pave the Earther",
"Chrome the mooner" and "chrome the moon and fire it from a giant
tuber"). Ahh, back in the day ;)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9508

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 1:37am
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 
Here's some fun reading as I close in on a long, tired, full of late nights
week.mainly for Viv, Scott, and Eric, but for all since we all read the
posts!  And Ken, I do always appreciate your insightful thoughts.keeps my
mind and eyes more open in life.thanks!

 

Funny responses that I read below and not below about my use of the word
"fluff", as there are always a few that won't like the wording no matter how
it is said!  If you have been around this forum as long as I have, obviously
you know I love Jeff's product and have pushed it in many places outside
this forum, and have never had a problem with ideas to improve or enhance
this product.  Of course it's true that one person's (surprised someone
didn't complain that Eric said one "man's") fluff may be another person's
critical function, and if you read my entire post that point was made.  To
now take one line without the rest of the context to criticize the use of
the word fluff misrepresents what was stated. 

 

I personally will never use the desktop as much as the handheld, but still
believe those that have waited soooo long for desktop improvements now days
far outnumber those making some of these recent personal "critical"
requests.  We could likely find uses for years to come that someone calls
critical to what they do, but at some point we have to be honest and admit
that items that serve a very small percentage of people are more "fluff" to
most users, or whatever word you want to put in place that is synonymous
with fluff.  My point was not, as stated below, that an item was fluff
merely because it was beyond what other programs contained, but I was
referring to it as such because we are getting into items that few use
compared to the majority.  I notice fewer now are pushing their "critical"
items compared to the far greater number of responses and input in the days
when there was less in this program.  Do you continue to please 3-4 people
over many others, and for how long?  

 

I know from my readings in other forums that many people were enthused and
talking about the upcoming Shadow desktop development, and since then the
enthusiasm has declined and now the discussion is all about the alternative
desktops.  When people continue to buy the other products then overall less
will buy Shadow desktop, and of those many will not switch after paying for
one and putting in that start up time.  Again, I am in business for myself
now days too and consideration must be given to where your market share
resides as a factor in marketing, assuming profit is one of the motives in
your business pursuit.

 

I call it fluff, you call it a necessity or critical, or you call it
something else.the reality is, too few want all the new suggestions compared
to the numbers wanting desktop improvements!  I don't "need" more in the
handheld for now, even though a few items I might like.I don't use the
desktop version any more so that doesn't bother me.but the discussion about
the new add-ins or add-ons bores me personally, frustrates desktop users,
and pleases a few.  It's a marketing choice for Jeff, but I would have made
that turn right after the holidays, let word out about that turn, and began
to generate enthusiasm when the desire was more at a peak.

 

Ah, I feel better.fluff, fluff, fluff.  That tactful enough!  ; )  Ok, that
is my rant for the week about marketing, as my first few weeks of this month
focus on my personal marketing strategy for the year.

 

Enjoy,

Kevin

 

Law Office of Kevin S. Giberson

831/722-4500

831/419-7551

-----Original Message-----
From: veb8 <veb8899@f...> [mailto:veb8899@f...] 
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:06 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "fehrmantool <edf@f...>" 
<edf@f...> wrote:
> I know all of us have different needs, some of us are handheld-
> centric... some are desktop-centric BUT please lets not call some 
of 
> the ideas being discussed "fluff".  One man's "fluff" is another 
> mans "critical function".
> 

Hi Eric

As another person who wants more action on the desktop side, you make 
some excellent points. I know my thinking was as I was seeing all 
these features added to the handheld side, that it seemed to be way 
beyond what any other palm outlining program had so therefore, it 
must be fluff.  But of course, that is not correct as you so 
rightfully point out.

I also greatly appreciate how tactful you were.  YOu recognized the 
various needs of the listmembers while pointing out what you still 
needed the handheld side of Shadow to do for you and why it 
wasn't "fluff".  It is a skill that many people could learn.

Vivian



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9509

From: kdm_hvcrrcom kdm-yahoogroups@h...  <kdm-yahoogroups@h...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 1:47am
Subject: Re: Suggestions

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> 	Rather than make it inconssitent (sometimes it works, 
sometimes it
> doesn't) we put it in the note. It always works.

Ah, well.  Logic usually wins.  I hadn't thought about it that way.
 
> 	Nope; when going from one computer to another, they don't
> synchronize. Also, it is nearly impossible to do halfway well.. 
consider..
> you mean have synced at desktop home, then desktop work, then 
laptop, and
> then friends PC (say, contrived example), then abck at home. What 
is it
> supposed to do? It certainly cannot synchronize ;)

Well, when I say that, I'm thinking of the datebook; I can make 
additions on multiple computers (home and work), and they get picked 
up.  If the changes conflict, I get a warning.  I can see that being 
difficult, though.

Perhaps another possibility, then, would be to allow me to sync a 
certain subset of my outlines with one PC, and another subset with a 
different one.
 
> 	Changing the default to keep both sides coudl be wise 
though, as
> that is the common. ITs the way it is by popular request, but that 
could
> be a mistake... but the syncing between multiple machines is dead 
on palm
> os standard.

I'd definitely argue for changing the default, as it is standard for 
the palm platform.
9510

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 3:06am
Subject: Outlook Macro

 
Does anyone know how to make a macro for Outlook that puts [[[file name]]]
at the beginning of a task name to utilise the import marked ToDos?

If you do, can you tell me how to do it?

TIA

Rita
9511

From: Kaupp, Jens  <boxjk@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 6:13am
Subject:

 
__________________________________________________________________

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Bis zu 100 MB Speicher bei http://premiummail.yahoo.de
9512

From: Ken Latham clatham1@t...  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:11am
Subject: Re: Shadow on Handshigh? ITs true!

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Griff" <lists@t...> wrote:
> Not really true...you can log everything down during the course of
the
> day and process at night, or whenever.  Simply go back, highlight an
> action item, and send it to ToDo. 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Slap as an inbox looks really cool, but as I've read in the posts
> > here, you can't defer decision ("Process") until a later time,
i.e.
> > you have to decide what a particular action is at the moment of
entry.
> > This runs counter to standard GTD practices.
> >

Not a very "safe" interface though.  One slip tapping one of the
destinations and say bye bye to eveything you wrote (beyond what it
parses that is).

This is exactly what happended to me when I was trialing it.  "Loaded
guns" I don't need!

Ken
9513

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:52am
Subject: Alternative to item-item links (GTD using Shadow only)

 
I spent some time this early morning, playing with Shadow...something
everyone should do every few months, just to explore the features.

As a refresher, my use for item-item links will be to better implement
the principles of GTD (Getting Things Done).  Currently I use multiple
lists to track projects, and I link my next actions in each project to
the todo database, setting the category for context, @Computer for
example.

I then use a series of views in Datebk5 to filter my todo items by
context, for example @Home will show todos from @Computer, @Phone,
@Home, and Anywhere.  

My goal is to remove the use of a third party app for viewing my list by
context. I want to keep everything as Shadow-centric as possible.  I've
also realized that I really only need the Datebook application for an
overview of what appointments I have for a day, and for alarms.  Alarms
will sound regardless of the application I am in, so I can stay in
Shadow all day, and only look at the Datebook at the start of the day.

My thoughts for item to item linking were to link items to a Shadow
file, called Next Actions, or some such.  The linked items would carry
over their tag information, and I could then create filters within
Shadow as I did the views in Datebk5.  When I checked off something in
my Next Actions, it would then be checked off in the master list. 

I realized tonight we already have a weird way of creating such a sync.
Let's say we have two lists, Projects, and Next Actions.  Within
Projects I link the next action items to todo by tapping the todo
checkbox I have visible. 

I then apply a custom filter called ToDo, which is defined as "todo link
present"=true and "checked"=false. 

Then I check off each item as if it were completed, go to the Edit menu,
select "Copy & Uncheck All Checked", and finally go back to the Edit
menu and select "Send to File" with the file choice being Next Actions.
(NOTE: You can also use the C -> Send to File option for the last step.)

Once this process is complete for all Project files, I can spend my time
in the Next Actions file.  The Next Actions file has filters defined
similar to the Datebk5 views I've setup.  I have a list of all my next
actions, from all projects, with their tags, filtered by context.  When
I complete an item, I simply check it within the Next Actions list,
which checks it in todo.  When you re-enter the original project file,
the item will pickup the checkmark from todo and be checked. 

So, I am using the todo database, but not the actual program.

I see two problems with this method:

1.  It takes a lot of taps.  I will have to try it for a couple days to
figure out if it is worth it.  I think the time it saves me switching
between apps will make up for the taps.  In reality, it is one tap more
per item linked, plus four additional taps for the edit menu.

2.  Once you complete one action within a project, you should activate
another to keep everything going.  I think I will tackle this by
creating Tags equal to my Project file names, and setting them as
primary.  Then I will make a note of which file the item came from by
reading the tag, check the item, visit the project file and activate the
next task, returning to my Next Actions file.  

Obviously item to item linking would make this all simpler.  Would save
a bunch of taps and take the todo database out of it.  In my vision of
I2I, you'd have a checkbox, similar to the todo checkbox, that would
link the item right to a predefined (list prefs) file.  Obviously all my
links would go to Next Actions. 

Within next actions, I could follow the link back to the projects file,
check the item, and activate the next by clicking the link to file
checkbox.

That said, it will probably be a little while before we see I2I.  In
fact with all the recent debate of desktop vs. palm functionality, I
wouldn't blame Jeff for putting the Palm side on hold for a bit.  The
method I've just outlined while seemingly cumbersome, should fill in the
gap for me, and may for others.  One big thing it allows me to do is
create my @Inbox items right in the Next Actions file.  Then, during the
day I can apply a filter, called Inbox and move items to appropriate
locations.  No more importing todos from Datebk5. 

Please try it if you are looking for item to item linking, and/or are
using GTD and want to become Shadow-centric. 

I'll be exploring a better way to show appointments within my Next
Actions list (for hard landscape items) and will post what I find.
Please send me any comments you have on the system I propose.  There may
be ways to eliminate taps here and there that I don't see; it is almost
2am after all ;-).
9514

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 8:42am
Subject: REVISION: Alternative to item-item links (GTD using Shadow only)

 
> 
> I then apply a custom filter called ToDo, which is defined as "todo
link
> present"=true and "checked"=false.
> 
> Then I check off each item as if it were completed, go to the Edit
menu,
> select "Copy & Uncheck All Checked", and finally go back to the Edit
> menu and select "Send to File" with the file choice being Next
Actions.
> (NOTE: You can also use the C -> Send to File option for the last
step.)
> 

I realized after playing a bit more that if you do the above, you will
wind up with duplicate items, and your truly completed items won't
indicate they are done.

Instead, don't mark the newly linked items complete, use the same custom
filter, but then copy each item individually.  This does add two taps
per item (one for tapping C, the other for Copy Item), however it keeps
checkmarks in tact. I didn't mention this in the original post, but of
course your clipboard will need to be set to hold many. 

In practice this probably would have been a better way anyway, as I
don't imagine I'll be activating tons of tasks from the same list. 

> I think I will tackle this by creating Tags equal to my Project file 
> names, and setting them as primary.  Then I will make a note of which
file > the item came from by reading the tag, check the item, visit the
project 
> file and activate the next task, returning to my Next Actions file.

When I go to set my todo link, I will first set the primary tag to be
the name of the list.  This will help me know where the task came from
when I view Next Actions, and I will know that the task has been
activated, because the primary tag is now the filename.  This could
prevent confusion if you revisit the project list during the day.  If
you see an item with no checkmark, and primary tag = filename, then you
know there's nothing else to activate at the moment. 

If you use one big list for many or all projects, you can still use this
method.  What you will gain is a listing with no parent item clutter,
which may be important if you have items 3, 4, or 5 levels deep.
9515

From: adirondack_46er adirondack_46er@y...  <adirondack_46er@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 1:10pm
Subject: Shadow's look and feel

 
Jeff,

There's been a lot of talk about adding esoteric features/capabilities to 
Shadow (okay, maybe not esoteric if that's your need). Just wanted to add a 
few "look and feel suggestions" and see if there was interest in that area.

- I would love to have the ability to vary the background of individual entries 
(as you can in Datebk5). This would make a much clearer definition of 
headers on a color PDA.

- Hi res icons for Clie's! I love the ability to control text size by choosing fonts 
in hi-res mode, but hitting those icons is a challenge.

- For some reason when using Font Bucket fonts on my Clie SJ30 the bold 
seems to override the normal font (or vice versa). Regardless, whatever I do I 
can't seem to distinguish between the two in lists. 

- Just a vote for the nil markers - They give you a target when you want to add 
something to a column. I've always liked them,

Thanks,

JB
9516

From: bstryd610 bstryd@a...  <bstryd@a...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Shadow on Handshigh? ITs true!

 
This is not true about the Slap I'm using (1.1). After it slaps the 
info into the desired application, the original text is still there, 
hightlighted, ready to be "cleared" or slapped into another app. 
Slap is quite good at an GTD inbox -- for me the only lack is the 
Shadow connection.

Bruce

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Latham <clatham1@t...>" 
<clatham1@t...> wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Griff" <lists@t...> wrote:
> > Not really true...you can log everything down during the course 
of
> the
> > day and process at night, or whenever.  Simply go back, 
highlight an
> > action item, and send it to ToDo. 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Slap as an inbox looks really cool, but as I've read in the 
posts
> > > here, you can't defer decision ("Process") until a later time,
> i.e.
> > > you have to decide what a particular action is at the moment of
> entry.
> > > This runs counter to standard GTD practices.
> > >
> 
> Not a very "safe" interface though.  One slip tapping one of the
> destinations and say bye bye to eveything you wrote (beyond what it
> parses that is).
> 
> This is exactly what happended to me when I was trialing 
it.  "Loaded
> guns" I don't need!
> 
> Ken
9517

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 3:25pm
Subject: Re: Outlook Macro

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Rita wrote:

> Does anyone know how to make a macro for Outlook that puts [[[file name]]]
> at the beginning of a task name to utilise the import marked ToDos?

	As an aside.. in the current alpha I've built a function to auto
import all new ToDos and Datebook items into Shadow lists. So if you
enable that option, anythign you type in Outlook or ToDo or the like will
magicly show up at the bottom of a list marked to auto import. Mind you,
it doesn't honour the [[[]]] stuff at all.. it just scoops all new items
into the list. But if you are going to use [[[Inbox]]] every time, say,
then this is for you :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9518

From: zipster256 r634718@y...  <r634718@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 3:27pm
Subject: Suggestion

 
I'd like to see access to *all* links & tag functions (including 
making them, editing them, jumping to them, listing them, selecting 
them from a pop-up list, etc.) available right in the edit dialog for 
each item (in a well organized way of course).  That way I don't have 
to have a tag column for tags, and a link column for links.  And I 
don't have to remember which menu item I have to select to access 
which feature of tagging or linking.

Since there is no horizontal scrolling, it's too cumbersome to try to 
read outlines when you have more than one or two columns.  Zooming is 
an awesome innovation, but with several columns, if you have several 
outline levels, it's just not very practical. If I could get all the 
link and tag functions in one place, I think it would solve several 
problems and make things easier to use.

Thanks. :-)
9519

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 3:28pm
Subject: Re: Shadow's look and feel

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, adirondack_46er <adirondack_46er@y...> wrote:

> - I would love to have the ability to vary the background of individual entries 
> (as you can in Datebk5). This would make a much clearer definition of 
> headers on a color PDA.

	Override the theme? Hmm..

> - Hi res icons for Clie's! I love the ability to control text size by choosing fonts 
> in hi-res mode, but hitting those icons is a challenge.

	Keep bugging me. Its lower on my list. I just hate drawing icons
all day ;)

> - For some reason when using Font Bucket fonts on my Clie SJ30 the
> bold seems to override the normal font (or vice versa). Regardless,
> whatever I do I can't seem to distinguish between the two in lists.

	I'm confused what you mean; setting the Bold font only effects the
items which would be bolded (by the [B] for instance).

> - Just a vote for the nil markers - They give you a target when you
> want to add something to a column. I've always liked them,

	I don't intend on removing them; at worst, an option to suppress
them.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9520

From: Manfred Ell  <manfred.ell@w...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Outlook Macro

 
On Friday Feb 07 at 03:25 PM, Jeff Mitchell  wrote:
----------------------- Original Message -----------------------
> 	As an aside.. in the current alpha I've built a function to auto
> import all new ToDos and Datebook items into Shadow lists. So if you
> enable that option, anythign you type in Outlook or ToDo or the like will
> magicly show up at the bottom of a list marked to auto import. Mind you,
> it doesn't honour the [[[]]] stuff at all.. it just scoops all new items
> into the list. But if you are going to use [[[Inbox]]] every time, say,
> then this is for you :)
> 

--------------------- Original Message Ends --------------------

As I was the one asking for this. Can you send me a copy of the alpha?

I'd have a happy weekend ;-)

Regards


-- 
Manfred

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9521

From: adirondack_46er adirondack_46er@y...  <adirondack_46er@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 4:12pm
Subject: Re: Shadow's look and feel

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, adirondack_46er <adirondack_46er@y...> wrote:
> 
> > - I would love to have the ability to vary the background of individual 
entries 
> > (as you can in Datebk5). This would make a much clearer definition of 
> > headers on a color PDA.
> 
> 	Override the theme? Hmm..

Yes, I think that describes it - In Datebk 5 when you bring up details - font - 
you have the ability to pick both font color and background color. Imagine the 
ability to have all of your major headers highlighted witha unique background 
to stand apart from the actual tasks.

> 
> > - Hi res icons for Clie's! I love the ability to control text size by choosing 
fonts 
> > in hi-res mode, but hitting those icons is a challenge.
> 
> 	Keep bugging me. Its lower on my list. I just hate drawing icons
> all day ;)

Consider yourself bugged...

> 
> > - For some reason when using Font Bucket fonts on my Clie SJ30 the
> > bold seems to override the normal font (or vice versa). Regardless,
> > whatever I do I can't seem to distinguish between the two in lists.
> 
> 	I'm confused what you mean; setting the Bold font only effects the
> items which would be bolded (by the [B] for instance).

Not sure what's going on here. I'm on an SJ30 working in Hi-Res with 
Fontbucket installed and "hi-res assist" turned off for Shadow. I am using 
Lubak's sans-serif fonts. They show perfectly in the font selection in 
preferences, but working in a list the text assumes a bold font regardless of 
what I have entered in the preferences. I may be missing something...

Thanks

John
9522

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow's look and feel

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, adirondack_46er <adirondack_46er@y...> wrote:

> > 	I'm confused what you mean; setting the Bold font only effects the
> > items which would be bolded (by the [B] for instance).
> 
> Not sure what's going on here. I'm on an SJ30 working in Hi-Res with 
> Fontbucket installed and "hi-res assist" turned off for Shadow. I am using 
> Lubak's sans-serif fonts. They show perfectly in the font selection in 
> preferences, but working in a list the text assumes a bold font regardless of 
> what I have entered in the preferences. I may be missing something...

	Do you mean FontHack or Font Bucket? For Lubak's, you use FontHack
(unless its changed of late), which is why it shows up in (say)
Preferences.. you've Font Hacked the base Font to be Lubak. However,
you've left Shadows normal font to some bold font setting in the Display
Prefs...

	So do you have FontHack and FontBucket going? (ie: Can't help
until I've got an idea of your setup :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9523

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 4:52pm
Subject: Re: Suggestion

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, zipster256 <r634718@y...> wrote:

> I'd like to see access to *all* links & tag functions (including 
> making them, editing them, jumping to them, listing them, selecting 
> them from a pop-up list, etc.) available right in the edit dialog for 
> each item (in a well organized way of course).  That way I don't have 
> to have a tag column for tags, and a link column for links.  And I 
> don't have to remember which menu item I have to select to access 
> which feature of tagging or linking.

	Theres not enough room on the screen for everythign all at once :)

> Since there is no horizontal scrolling, it's too cumbersome to try to
> read outlines when you have more than one or two columns.  Zooming is
> an awesome innovation, but with several columns, if you have several
> outline levels, it's just not very practical. If I could get all the
> link and tag functions in one place, I think it would solve several
> problems and make things easier to use.

	Putting everything in one place is the opposite of "easy to
use"; easy to use is one thing at a time. So the goal is to meet in the
middle.. enough stuff onscreen, but still reasonably easy to use.

	I could add panels to the details screen so you could see the
other settings.. but thats essentially what you have now :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9524

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 4:53pm
Subject: Re: Outlook Macro

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Manfred Ell wrote:

> > import all new ToDos and Datebook items into Shadow lists. So if you
> > enable that option, anythign you type in Outlook or ToDo or the like will
> > magicly show up at the bottom of a list marked to auto import. Mind you,
> > it doesn't honour the [[[]]] stuff at all.. it just scoops all new items
> > into the list. But if you are going to use [[[Inbox]]] every time, say,
> > then this is for you :)
> 
> --------------------- Original Message Ends --------------------
> 
> As I was the one asking for this. Can you send me a copy of the alpha?

	No, but you can join shadow-test mailing list which is open to the
public. To play with alphas, you must be in the maliling list.. otherwise
you're asking for trouble. (Using alphas without knowing what is new or
what problems arise, etc)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9525

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 5:12pm
Subject: Re: Outlook Macro

 
Jeff:
What does the statement you made below mean?  Seems like one or the other, not both would be used.  Thanks for any explanation so i understand...
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: Shadow-Discuss@Y... Com 
  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:25 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Outlook Macro


  Mind you,
  it doesn't honour the [[[]]] stuff at all.. it just scoops all new items
  into the list. But if you are going to use [[[Inbox]]] every time, say,
  then this is for you :)

              jeff

  --
  "

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9526

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 5:27pm
Subject: Re: Outlook Macro

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> What does the statement you made below mean?  Seems like one or the
> other, not both would be used.  Thanks for any explanation so i
> understand...

	If you mark up an item with [[[listname]]], you can hit Import
MArked ToDos to bring it in.

	If you set a list to "auto import new ToDos", then every new ToDo
will get sucked into it.

	These are separate operations entirely.

	ie: If you mark an item up with [[[foo]]] and then it gets
auto-imported, the auto-import leaves the [[[fooo]]] there since you may
wish to then Import Marked to get it to go to a list of your choice.

	ie: If you Mark a todo up, and Import Marked Todos, it'll lose the
[[[foo]]] part and go to the destination list. But it will still go into a
list with the Auto-import-todo pref.

	Auto improt ToDos picks up all new ToDos. You want a way to get
all todos into a list.. there you go.

	Import Marked lets you selectively specify a todo to go to a
specific Shadow list.

	They don't care about each other.

		jeff

> Kevin
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Jeff Mitchell 
>   To: Shadow-Discuss@Y... Com 
>   Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:25 AM
>   Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Outlook Macro
> 
> 
>   Mind you,
>   it doesn't honour the [[[]]] stuff at all.. it just scoops all new items
>   into the list. But if you are going to use [[[Inbox]]] every time, say,
>   then this is for you :)
> 
>               jeff
> 
>   --
>   "
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9527

From: gresfordat gresfordat@y...  <gresfordat@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 5:59pm
Subject: Archiving issues

 
Hi,

I'm a new user and I would like to know if I have archived an item to 
the archive database is there any way for me to restore it back to 
the list I archived it from?

Gresford Thomas
9528

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 6:08pm
Subject: Re: Archiving issues

 
go to the archive list (_ARCHIVE_), select the item and copy it to the
clipboard, than click on the clipboard icon and choose "send to file",
choose your desired file and you're done. Hope this helps.

Scott
9529

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 6:13pm
Subject: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
I've got a Tungsten T myself, and a T68i phone (more or less). I
can browse via GPRS from my TT via bluetooth to the phone and using the
phones GPRS connection.

	Since I swap between web browser, email, IRC, and other stuff on
the handheld, I've got all the applications set to keep the connection
open when they exit. So to turn off the connection I need to either turn
the device off and wait a few seconds, or open Prefs -> Network and hit
Disconnect. Sort of annoying.

	Would anyone welcome a little tiny app that just connects or
disconnects the network connection from the command-bar?

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9530

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 6:11pm
Subject: Re: Archiving issues

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, gresfordat <gresfordat@y...> wrote:

> I'm a new user and I would like to know if I have archived an item to
> the archive database is there any way for me to restore it back to the
> list I archived it from?

	The _ARCHIVE_ file is just a regular Shadow file; just open it up,
find the item in questions, and use the clipboard to move it back. (ie:
Cut/Move, or Cut/Paste, or Cut/Send-to, etc). If a recent version of
Shadow, the Note of the item will include a comment as to which file it
came from, and where in that file, too.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9531

From: Jef Allbright  <groups@j...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
I think QLaunch may provide something similar.

- Jef
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:13 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Any handheld web browser types here?



        I've got a Tungsten T myself, and a T68i phone (more or less). I
  can browse via GPRS from my TT via bluetooth to the phone and using the
  phones GPRS connection.

        Since I swap between web browser, email, IRC, and other stuff on
  the handheld, I've got all the applications set to keep the connection
  open when they exit. So to turn off the connection I need to either turn
  the device off and wait a few seconds, or open Prefs -> Network and hit
  Disconnect. Sort of annoying.

        Would anyone welcome a little tiny app that just connects or
  disconnects the network connection from the command-bar?

              jeff

  --
  "Have you played Atari today?"


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9532

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:14pm
Subject: RE: Shadow's look and feel

 
Is there any way someone who really wants hi-res icons and who's a good
graphics person could help with this?  Is it just editing a resource
file?  What tools are needed?

Mind you, I'm not a good graphics person, so this probably wouldn't be
me, but I'd bet we have at least one who meets the criteria out there
;-)

> 
> > - Hi res icons for Clie's! I love the ability to control text size
by
> choosing fonts
> > in hi-res mode, but hitting those icons is a challenge.
> 
> 	Keep bugging me. Its lower on my list. I just hate drawing icons
> all day ;)
>
9533

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:16pm
Subject: Re: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Jef Allbright wrote:

> I think QLaunch may provide something similar.

	Geesh, he should change the name from QLaunch to "QKitchenSink" :)

	My little hack will be freeware.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9534

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:17pm
Subject: RE: Suggestion

 
> 
> 	I could add panels to the details screen so you could see the
> other settings.. but thats essentially what you have now :)
> 

Might look good though, one for details, one for links, one for notes.
Of course, I'd still like an easier way for adding tags, a revamped tag
manager, as we've discussed before, so maybe one specifically for tags
too.
9535

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:18pm
Subject: RE: Shadow's look and feel

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Griff wrote:

> Is there any way someone who really wants hi-res icons and who's a good
> graphics person could help with this?  Is it just editing a resource
> file?  What tools are needed?

	OKay, lets start off then..

	Which icons are we talking about here?

	And its more than an icon set.. we're talking about using normal
icons in high res some of the time (all the time right now) (making them
very small), and high res icons for some of the time (double their size,
making them look low-res-sized in high res mode).. which means a code
change.. unknown complexity at this point. ie: It means sometimes using
low-res size-metrics for tap poitn calculation, while other times using
high res current metrics.. could be ugly.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9536

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:20pm
Subject: RE: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
All of the apps I use have a drop connection feature pretty easily
available from the menu.  The hardest one is Xiino, which has a menu
option to go to Network, and then I just tap disconnect. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:13 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Any handheld web browser types here?
> 
> 
> 	I've got a Tungsten T myself, and a T68i phone (more or less). I
> can browse via GPRS from my TT via bluetooth to the phone and using
the
> phones GPRS connection.
> 
> 	Since I swap between web browser, email, IRC, and other stuff on
> the handheld, I've got all the applications set to keep the connection
> open when they exit. So to turn off the connection I need to either
turn
> the device off and wait a few seconds, or open Prefs -> Network and
hit
> Disconnect. Sort of annoying.
> 
> 	Would anyone welcome a little tiny app that just connects or
> disconnects the network connection from the command-bar?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>
9537

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:24pm
Subject: RE: Shadow's look and feel

 
> 
> > Is there any way someone who really wants hi-res icons and who's a
good
> > graphics person could help with this?  Is it just editing a resource
> > file?  What tools are needed?
> 
> 	OKay, lets start off then..
> 
> 	Which icons are we talking about here?

I can only speak for me, but I'm talking expand/collapse arrow, link
arrow, and maybe checkbox and todo link box.  The last two really aren't
an issue for me, it's those darn arrows. ;-)

> 
> 	And its more than an icon set.. we're talking about using normal
> icons in high res some of the time (all the time right now) (making
them
> very small), and high res icons for some of the time (double their
size,
> making them look low-res-sized in high res mode).. which means a code
> change.. unknown complexity at this point. ie: It means sometimes
using
> low-res size-metrics for tap poitn calculation, while other times
using
> high res current metrics.. could be ugly.
> 

Why would it be a half and half type thing?  Why not use the hi-res
icons all throughout?  I guess this would mean all icons would have to
be converted to a hi-res icon format?
9538

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:30pm
Subject: RE: Suggestion

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Griff wrote:

> > 	I could add panels to the details screen so you could see the
> > other settings.. but thats essentially what you have now :)
> 
> Might look good though, one for details, one for links, one for notes.
> Of course, I'd still like an easier way for adding tags, a revamped tag
> manager, as we've discussed before, so maybe one specifically for tags
> too. 

	The problem with panels is they're all attached; since you can
jump straight to note editor by tapping on the memo icon (if pref
enabled), and can use /A to jump right to it, using panels is sub-optimal.

	Suggestions for making tags easier to add? ie: I add suggested
earlier a popup listing of tag categories, and tap on a category to get a
popup panel of tags with checkboxes, but it was rejected by a lot of
people :)

	As to revamped tag manager, I don't recall.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9539

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:34pm
Subject: RE: Shadow's look and feel

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Griff wrote:

> good
> > > graphics person could help with this?  Is it just editing a resource
> > > file?  What tools are needed?
> > 
> > 	OKay, lets start off then..
> > 
> > 	Which icons are we talking about here?
> 
> I can only speak for me, but I'm talking expand/collapse arrow, link
> arrow, and maybe checkbox and todo link box.  The last two really aren't
> an issue for me, it's those darn arrows. ;-)

	OKay. Changing all the icons is a lot of work (consider the
graphical buttons at the bottom of the screen, and every icon in the
application.. probably 50 of the little buggers ;)

> Why would it be a half and half type thing?  Why not use the hi-res
> icons all throughout?  I guess this would mean all icons would have to
> be converted to a hi-res icon format?

	Its more complex than that; note that when you go to high res
mode, you have tiny text. If we make "high res" (larger) icons, then how
do we fit them in there? They just don't fit without using the low res
apacing.. which defeats the purpose of using the high res to get text
crammage. So theres much thoguht and planning to be done.

	(Really, of course, I can use the low res icons in low res render
mode on the high res screen, so they show up the same size as they do in
low res.. but the problem above is that the arrow then takes up two text
lines of space! Example.. the graphcial button bars on the bottom of the
screen. Theyr'e in low res rendered even in high res mode, so they show up
full size on all units regardless of resolution. But they're special
handled because they're constant position and such.. easy)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9540

From: veb8 veb8899@f...  <veb8899@f...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 
Hi Kevin,

I am sorry if my post came across as critical of your use of the 
word "fluff" as I certainly didn't mean for it to be.  In all 
honestly, when you wrote your post on the desktop recently (sorry I 
forgot the date), I was silently applauding you because you echoed my 
sentiments so well.  I didn't say anything initially because I didn't 
know how to write a post without appearing like I was doing a "me 
too" or piling on.  Guess I am doing it now, right?

But I also felt that Eric made some good points about his needs on 
the handheld side also and I wanted to acknowledge those.  I think I 
identified with him because many times, I have been on the side where 
I seem to be the only person who thinks a feature is important. Also, 
my reasoning was I felt that thread was getting off track and I was 
trying to bring it back.  Obviously, I did a bad job on all accounts 
and I apologize.

Hope that clarifies my position.

Vivian
9541

From: madmaxmedia madmaxmedia@y...  <madmaxmedia@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 7:49pm
Subject: Re: Mini editor wise

 
Hi Jeff,

I just would like to second the request for quicker access to the 
note editor- that would be fantastic!!! I was going to make a post 
about this, but found this via search.

What happens now when you double-tap an expanded note? (my CLIE is 
broken right now.) I believe it goes to the Detail page. How about 
double-clicking an expanded note to go directly to the note editor? 
I think that would be the most intuitive (if you can separate double-
tapping regular text vs. note text.)

Thanks,
Steve

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Rafael Barbera wrote:
> 
> > I'm using the minieditor a lot, because is very comfortable to 
me,
> > viewing all the plan as I insert new task or ideas. Sometimes, 
when
> > I'm rereading some item, I found that I should explain them (add 
a
> > note), but I have any direct method to do that. This also 
happens to
> > me when I'm trying to make a short title on the minieditor, but 
it
> > begins to grow. A little "N" icon below the "D" one on the 
MiniEditor,
> > that brings up the Note Editor will be very usefully. At last 
for me
> > ;-)
> 
> 	That was the intention; its on my todo list. Its a little 
annoying
> though.. the OS has some issues jumping frmo very small wnidows to 
very
> large full screen ones like the note editor :/ It would also imply 
an
> "OK" for a new item. So I might actually do a trick.. put a [N] 
button
> there, and when you hit it, it acually hits the checkmark, then 
writes /A
> into the grafitti buffer for you.. pulling up the note editor :) 
I'll see
> about doing it soon, as the codes been in place a long time, just 
not
> tested ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"
9542

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Shadow's look and feel[yeah skin it!]

 
Ah, I thought you're talking about general icon support  la DateBk.
Sou you mean the arrows and other ui iconical graphics?
Would like that too! (I would also like icons for items btw)
Hmm, I would think of a generalized why: The lores icons would've 
been doubled (or *4 I think) - yeah streched on hires so there is a 
standard look no matter what icon res...

BTW, it would be really awesome to enable strong customization for, 
say, the arrows and the like, via those DateBk(&Agendus 
&Handyshopper) format icons. With the customized colors available 
now...well one could really skin Shadow (a bg image wouldn't hurt 
either ;). I would love that!
Anybody else who would be interested in THAT? (hope it was clear 
what i meant, english is not my native language :)

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Griff" <lists@t...> wrote:
> > 
> > > Is there any way someone who really wants hi-res icons and 
who's a
> good
> > > graphics person could help with this?  Is it just editing a 
resource
> > > file?  What tools are needed?
> > 
> > 	OKay, lets start off then..
> > 
> > 	Which icons are we talking about here?
> 
> I can only speak for me, but I'm talking expand/collapse arrow, 
link
> arrow, and maybe checkbox and todo link box.  The last two really 
aren't
> an issue for me, it's those darn arrows. ;-)
> 
> > 
> > 	And its more than an icon set.. we're talking about using 
normal
> > icons in high res some of the time (all the time right now) 
(making
> them
> > very small), and high res icons for some of the time (double 
their
> size,
> > making them look low-res-sized in high res mode).. which means a 
code
> > change.. unknown complexity at this point. ie: It means sometimes
> using
> > low-res size-metrics for tap poitn calculation, while other times
> using
> > high res current metrics.. could be ugly.
> > 
> 
> Why would it be a half and half type thing?  Why not use the hi-res
> icons all throughout?  I guess this would mean all icons would 
have to
> be converted to a hi-res icon format?
9543

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 8:06pm
Subject: Re: Shadow's look and feel

 
ok got that point so forget this one in my last post...

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
> 
> 	(Really, of course, I can use the low res icons in low res 
render
> mode on the high res screen, so they show up the same size as they 
do in
> low res.. but the problem above is that the arrow then takes up 
two text
> lines of space! Example.. the graphcial button bars on the bottom 
of the
> screen. Theyr'e in low res rendered even in high res mode, so they 
show up
> full size on all units regardless of resolution. But they're 
special
> handled because they're constant position and such.. easy)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"
9544

From: Sean Cooperrider  <scooperrider@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 8:25pm
Subject: RE: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
That would be a very welcome little prog..Hook me up
 
 
 
 
Sean Cooperrider
Service Director
System Administrator
South Coast Acura
2925 Harbor Blvd.
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
714-979-2500
714-713-4084
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:13 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Any handheld web browser types here?
 

      I've got a Tungsten T myself, and a T68i phone (more or less). I
can browse via GPRS from my TT via bluetooth to the phone and using the
phones GPRS connection.

      Since I swap between web browser, email, IRC, and other stuff on
the handheld, I've got all the applications set to keep the connection
open when they exit. So to turn off the connection I need to either turn
the device off and wait a few seconds, or open Prefs -> Network and hit
Disconnect. Sort of annoying.

      Would anyone welcome a little tiny app that just connects or
disconnects the network connection from the command-bar?

            jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9545

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 8:34pm
Subject: RE: Shadow's look and feel

 
> 
> 	OKay. Changing all the icons is a lot of work (consider the
> graphical buttons at the bottom of the screen, and every icon in the
> application.. probably 50 of the little buggers ;)
> 

That's why I suggested a volunteer ;-)

> 
> 	Its more complex than that; note that when you go to high res
> mode, you have tiny text. If we make "high res" (larger) icons, then
how
> do we fit them in there? They just don't fit without using the low res
> apacing.. which defeats the purpose of using the high res to get text
> crammage. So theres much thoguht and planning to be done.
> 
> 	(Really, of course, I can use the low res icons in low res
render
> mode on the high res screen, so they show up the same size as they do
in
> low res.. but the problem above is that the arrow then takes up two
text
> lines of space! Example.. the graphcial button bars on the bottom of
the
> screen. Theyr'e in low res rendered even in high res mode, so they
show up
> full size on all units regardless of resolution. But they're special
> handled because they're constant position and such.. easy)
> 

Yeah, makes perfect sense.  Really though the hi-res icons just need to
be longer.  If the link arrow were twice or three times as long it'd
help out tremendously. Same with the exp/coll arrows. Maybe if in hi-res
the column that houses those icons could be expanded pretty easily?
9546

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 8:57pm
Subject: RE: Shadow's look and feel

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Griff wrote:

> Yeah, makes perfect sense.  Really though the hi-res icons just need
> to be longer.  If the link arrow were twice or three times as long
> it'd help out tremendously. Same with the exp/coll arrows. Maybe if in
> hi-res the column that houses those icons could be expanded pretty
> easily?

	So stretched letterbox icons for highres modes? Ack, I suppose
they coudl be done tastefully but my first impression would be stretched
ugly icons ;)  (And also, a bit of work, since suddenly the size of the
icon tap area changes based on resolution.. not just doubling for scaling,
but changing the whole aspect ratio, etc :/)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9547

From: fiatspider72 jphillips@p...  <jphillips@p...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 9:20pm
Subject: Re: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
wrote:
> 
> 	I've got a Tungsten T myself, and a T68i phone (more or less). I
> can browse via GPRS from my TT via bluetooth to the phone and using
the
> phones GPRS connection.
> 
> 	Since I swap between web browser, email, IRC, and other stuff on
> the handheld, I've got all the applications set to keep the
connection
> open when they exit. So to turn off the connection I need to either
turn
> the device off and wait a few seconds, or open Prefs -> Network and
hit
> Disconnect. Sort of annoying.
> 
> 	Would anyone welcome a little tiny app that just connects or
> disconnects the network connection from the command-bar?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

I'm not sure if you can us DA's (Desk Accessories) under OS5, but if
you can you should take a look at NetConnectDA.

http://members.tripod.com/~hokamoto/palm.html

Does excactly what you are talking about Jeff.

 - Jeramy
9548

From: zipster256 r634718@y...  <r634718@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 10:23pm
Subject: Re: Suggestion

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> 	Suggestions for making tags easier to add? ie: I add suggested
> earlier a popup listing of tag categories, and tap on a category to 
get a
> popup panel of tags with checkboxes, but it was rejected by a lot of
> people :)

So the advantage of this over the existing design is that you can 
make multiple selections from one category simultaneously without 
reinvoking the list?

Also...on my comments at the beginning of this thread about putting 
more things in the details dialog.  What I had in mind was adding 
something like a "Tag" button in the Details dialog in a manner 
similar to the current Link button.  When you click this Tag button 
you get the same menu you get when you tap a Tag column...i.e. Tag 
Manager,Add Tag, Remove Tag, Swap Tag and all the item specific 
tags.  Point being you can manage tags that way insetad of having a 
column if you want.

Better yet...have one button in details labeled maybe Tags&Links, 
then just make the link manager the first choice on the menu in the 
last paragraph (just like it is now on the tag column popup menu).  
Then you can do it all from the details dialog and only need one 
button.  :-)
9549

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 10:26pm
Subject: Question about memo links

 
I recently discovered, that I will not see all my memos in the 
linkmanager when trying to link...
Is it a bug? Is it known? Is this the right place to post such 
things?

Bye...
9550

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 10:39pm
Subject: RE: Outlook Macro

 
> 	As an aside.. in the current alpha I've built a function to auto
> import all new ToDos and Datebook items into Shadow lists. So if you
> enable that option, anythign you type in Outlook or ToDo or the like will
> magicly show up at the bottom of a list marked to auto import. Mind you,
> it doesn't honour the [[[]]] stuff at all.. it just scoops all new items
> into the list. But if you are going to use [[[Inbox]]] every time, say,
> then this is for you :)
>
> 		jeff
>

Fantastic, Jeff your are so cool!  I invariably forget to include the [[[]]]

Rita
9551

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:15pm
Subject: RE: Shadow's look and feel

 
Maybe not even stretching the icons themselves, but the space they are
in...perhaps just changing the aspect ration.

I don't have problems seeing the small icons, I have troubles tapping
them.

> 
> 	So stretched letterbox icons for highres modes? Ack, I suppose
> they coudl be done tastefully but my first impression would be
stretched
> ugly icons ;)  (And also, a bit of work, since suddenly the size of
the
> icon tap area changes based on resolution.. not just doubling for
scaling,
> but changing the whole aspect ratio, etc :/)
>
9552

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:25pm
Subject: RE: Suggestion

 
> 	The problem with panels is they're all attached; since you can
> jump straight to note editor by tapping on the memo icon (if pref
> enabled), and can use /A to jump right to it, using panels is
sub-optimal.

Hmm, just switch to details with the right panel displayed. 

> 
> 	Suggestions for making tags easier to add? ie: I add suggested
> earlier a popup listing of tag categories, and tap on a category to
get a
> popup panel of tags with checkboxes, but it was rejected by a lot of
> people :)
> 
> 	As to revamped tag manager, I don't recall.

I think the rejection was more about a pop up interface, not the idea.

I had proposed redoing the tag manager with two panels.  The first would
have add tag information, very similar to what you described.  You'd
have a list of tags that you can scroll through and tap a checkbox to
assign to the list.  I envision a category picker at the top of the
screen to allow one to see All tags, or just those within a category.

Category: All
(x) Tag 1
( ) Tag 2
( ) Tag 3
(x) Tag 4
(x) Tag 5
( ) Tag 6
( ) Tag 7

Done  Cancel

The second tab would be the existing tag manager where one can define
tags and their categories. 

If I chose add tag, I'd be brought to the multi-select screen, tap done
and I have all the tags I want associated with the item selected. 

If you hate the idea of allowing the tag manager to select tags too,
even a new dialog called Tag Picker, similar to the above would work.  

FWIW, I never use link manager to add tags, far too many taps...and I
really dislike using Add Tag, because I generally add tags from multiple
categories, so it's always 4 taps to add a tag.
9553

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:29pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 
Vivian, you know I never hold anything you say against you.always enjoy
hearing from you!  Cold back there right now eh?  Sunny and about 60 here
today and for the next few days.  ; )

I'm in the middle of a marketing plan/blitz myself right now, with another
week to complete it to stay within my projected timeframe.  Thus, after
reading a bunch of the fluff (a second use of that word!), I sort of went
off in my own little world for a while and was subtly giving Jeff some
marketing thoughts.  Of course, since I use the handheld all the time, I
could enjoy the new items forever, as I haven't loved an addition as much as
the auto import of to dos/appts in a long time.I  LOVE THAT FEATURE!
However, from a marketing perspective, I heard far more voices for the
desktop improvements compared to the few here and there with their specialty
requests, albeit those requests might be very important to those few users,
but for most of us the ideas I was hearing would be mere fluff (my other use
again!).  I just saw/see an opportunity for Jeff to get a group behind him
that could grow quickly based on the increase in a desktop outline desire I
have read about recently in various forums.  Hate to see such an awesome
developer not get a large portion of that market share when it is there for
the taking right now.no one will take his increasing handheld share for
quite some time, but that group that wants the great desktop will not wait
forever before choosing another product for good.  Just my thoughts, and
hope all is well on your coast!

Kevin

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veb8 <veb8899@f...> [mailto:veb8899@f...] 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:43 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 

Hi Kevin,

I am sorry if my post came across as critical of your use of the 
word "fluff" as I certainly didn't mean for it to be.  In all 
honestly, when you wrote your post on the desktop recently (sorry I 
forgot the date), I was silently applauding you because you echoed my 
sentiments so well.  I didn't say anything initially because I didn't 
know how to write a post without appearing like I was doing a "me 
too" or piling on.  Guess I am doing it now, right?

But I also felt that Eric made some good points about his needs on 
the handheld side also and I wanted to acknowledge those.  I think I 
identified with him because many times, I have been on the side where 
I seem to be the only person who thinks a feature is important. Also, 
my reasoning was I felt that thread was getting off track and I was 
trying to bring it back.  Obviously, I did a bad job on all accounts 
and I apologize.

Hope that clarifies my position.

Vivian




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9554

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Suggestion

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, zipster256 <r634718@y...> wrote:

> > 	Suggestions for making tags easier to add? ie: I add suggested
> > earlier a popup listing of tag categories, and tap on a category to 
> get a
> > popup panel of tags with checkboxes, but it was rejected by a lot of
> > people :)
> 
> So the advantage of this over the existing design is that you can 
> make multiple selections from one category simultaneously without 
> reinvoking the list?

	yeah, and change categories with one tap.

> Also...on my comments at the beginning of this thread about putting
> more things in the details dialog.  What I had in mind was adding
> something like a "Tag" button in the Details dialog in a manner
> similar to the current Link button.  When you click this Tag button
> you get the same menu you get when you tap a Tag column...i.e. Tag
> Manager,Add Tag, Remove Tag, Swap Tag and all the item specific tags.  
> Point being you can manage tags that way insetad of having a column if
> you want.

	I could add aht; if theres room for a button there (I forget :)

> Better yet...have one button in details labeled maybe Tags&Links, then
> just make the link manager the first choice on the menu in the last
> paragraph (just like it is now on the tag column popup menu).  Then
> you can do it all from the details dialog and only need one button.  
> :-)

	Naah, then its two taps for Links :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9555

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:40pm
Subject: Re: Question about memo links

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, darkoem <darkoem@y...> wrote:

> I recently discovered, that I will not see all my memos in the
> linkmanager when trying to link... Is it a bug? Is it known? Is this
> the right place to post such things?

	Are you sure? They may be listed in the wrong order perhaps?

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9556

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:47pm
Subject: RE: Question about memo links

 
> > I recently discovered, that I will not see all my memos in the
> > linkmanager when trying to link... Is it a bug? Is it known? Is this
> > the right place to post such things?
> 
> 	Are you sure? They may be listed in the wrong order perhaps?
> 
> 		jeff

could this be the same scroll problem I am getting with link manager?

Rita
9557

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:54pm
Subject: Re: Question about memo links

 
Yes I'm sure. Shadow lists it in alphabetical order (hmm maybe i 
sorted it that way once in memopad) but doesn't list them all. It 
stops showing my memos at some point(now at the letter Q but that is 
not everytime the case).
I had the problem on my m505 while trialing shadow and now on my T|T 
and registered. My titles are normally too long to be listed 
completely by shadow(in that link manager window), dunno if that 
affects it.
BTW on my m505 it showed even less memos then now, quite wired and I 
found nothing about it in the archives...
It's not THAT problem, because I'm now using shadow mainly for my 
notes but yeah...


--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, darkoem <darkoem@y...> wrote:
> 
> > I recently discovered, that I will not see all my memos in the
> > linkmanager when trying to link... Is it a bug? Is it known? Is 
this
> > the right place to post such things?
> 
> 	Are you sure? They may be listed in the wrong order perhaps?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"
9558

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 11:59pm
Subject: RE: Question about memo links

 
On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Rita wrote:

> > > I recently discovered, that I will not see all my memos in the
> > > linkmanager when trying to link... Is it a bug? Is it known? Is this
> > > the right place to post such things?
> > 
> > 	Are you sure? They may be listed in the wrong order perhaps?
> 
> could this be the same scroll problem I am getting with link manager?

	What scroll problem? (I may have forgotten?)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9559

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:00am
Subject: Re: Re: Question about memo links

 
On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, darkoem <darkoem@y...> wrote:

> Yes I'm sure. Shadow lists it in alphabetical order (hmm maybe i
> sorted it that way once in memopad) but doesn't list them all. It
> stops showing my memos at some point(now at the letter Q but that is
> not everytime the case). I had the problem on my m505 while trialing
> shadow and now on my T|T and registered. My titles are normally too
> long to be listed completely by shadow(in that link manager window),
> dunno if that affects it. BTW on my m505 it showed even less memos
> then now, quite wired and I found nothing about it in the archives...
> It's not THAT problem, because I'm now using shadow mainly for my
> notes but yeah...

	Hmmm, I think that rings an old bell from long ago. Got any
protected memos in there?

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9560

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:00am
Subject: Re: Question about memo links

 
What is that scrollproblem (maybe you're right...)?
My problem is that i can not scroll down any further (in the link 
manager choosen the memo tab, the address tab functions flawless) 
but I'm absolutly sure that a lot of memos didn't show up above...

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Rita" <rblanzan@i...> wrote:
> > > I recently discovered, that I will not see all my memos in the
> > > linkmanager when trying to link... Is it a bug? Is it known? 
Is this
> > > the right place to post such things?
> > 
> > 	Are you sure? They may be listed in the wrong order perhaps?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> 
> could this be the same scroll problem I am getting with link 
manager?
> 
> Rita
9561

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:05am
Subject: Re: Question about memo links

 
Yes a lot (but set visible in security) but there is no system in 
it: Shadow shows some private memos und hides some unprotected 
memos. It just stops to list at some point (and the list order is 
exactly like in memopad)...

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, darkoem <darkoem@y...> wrote:
> 
> > Yes I'm sure. Shadow lists it in alphabetical order (hmm maybe i
> > sorted it that way once in memopad) but doesn't list them all. It
> > stops showing my memos at some point(now at the letter Q but 
that is
> > not everytime the case). I had the problem on my m505 while 
trialing
> > shadow and now on my T|T and registered. My titles are normally 
too
> > long to be listed completely by shadow(in that link manager 
window),
> > dunno if that affects it. BTW on my m505 it showed even less 
memos
> > then now, quite wired and I found nothing about it in the 
archives...
> > It's not THAT problem, because I'm now using shadow mainly for my
> > notes but yeah...
> 
> 	Hmmm, I think that rings an old bell from long ago. Got any
> protected memos in there?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"
9562

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:08am
Subject: RE: Question about memo links

 
> 	What scroll problem? (I may have forgotten?)
>

When I use the scroll wheel on the t615 to scroll down the list, the list
item that are 'touched' go blank.  It happens in links for memos and
contacts, I can't recall if it happens for tags also.  I'll have another
play.

Rita
9563

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:09am
Subject: Re: Question about memo links

 
nope. that's not what happened to me (well i don'T have a jog dial).
Everything looks good, address links are no problem just the memos...

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Rita" <rblanzan@i...> wrote:
> > 	What scroll problem? (I may have forgotten?)
> >
> 
> When I use the scroll wheel on the t615 to scroll down the list, 
the list
> item that are 'touched' go blank.  It happens in links for memos 
and
> contacts, I can't recall if it happens for tags also.  I'll have 
another
> play.
> 
> Rita
9564

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:17am
Subject: RE: Question about memo links

 
Copy of post 9183, your reply to the 2nd paragraph and I assumed that you
have taken note of it, I'm using version 2.7.2 but I think it was happening
with the earlier version also:

==============================
Jeff

Jog Dial - I have noticed that when adding an address book link and I scroll
down the list using the jog dial, the highlighted entries disappear. This
also happens with memos after a whole page has been scrolled.

Back button - pressing the back button at the list selection screen opens
the categories rather than back out to the launcher. Is this meant to be
so?

I have a clie T615

Rita

==============================
9565

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 0:23am
Subject: RE: Question about memo links

 
> Copy of post 9183, your reply to the 2nd paragraph and I assumed that you

bad English, should be "you replied" not "your reply"
9566

From: scarlet_vx scarlet_vx@y...  <scarlet_vx@y...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 2:05am
Subject: Shadow as todo app

 
In a perfect world if I was able to look at and check off a Shadow 
outline in a split screen with my calendar I would not use ToDo 
entries at all.

Realistically I think this is more likely to come, if ever, from a 
calendar program like Datebk5 allowing a 3rd party ap to show in a 
window.  It's more than I've ever expected you to do for us, Jeff.

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "carrdwight <carrdwight@y...>" 
<carrdwight@y...> wrote:
> Really the main reason I use the built in todo app is to allow me 
to 
> look at my day in daytimer organizer software > > >      ----- 
Original message --------------------------------------
> -
> > ->
> > >      From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> > >      To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> > >      Received: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:03:54 -0500 (EST)
> > >      Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Slap support
> > >       I'm thinking we can spend the next couple weeks bouncing 
> > around
> > > ideas on what Shadow needs to eliminate the need of the built-
in 
> > ToDo
> > > entirely. I'm working on some changes to go along that line in 
> > general..
> > > but specific "this is what I do in todo, and adding this one 
> thing 
> > into
> > > Shadow would eliminate that" would be welcome ;)
> > > 
> > >             jeff
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9568

From: adirondack_46er adirondack_46er@y...  <adirondack_46er@y...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 3:13pm
Subject: Re: Shadow's look and feel

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell 
<support@s...> wrote:

> > > 	I'm confused what you mean; setting the Bold font only 
effects the
> > > items which would be bolded (by the [B] for instance).
> > 
> > Not sure what's going on here. I'm on an SJ30 working in 
Hi-Res with 
> > Fontbucket installed and "hi-res assist" turned off for 
Shadow. I am using 
> > Lubak's sans-serif fonts. They show perfectly in the font 
selection in 
> > preferences, but working in a list the text assumes a bold 
font regardless of 
> > what I have entered in the preferences. I may be missing 
something...
> 
> 	Do you mean FontHack or Font Bucket? For Lubak's, you use 
FontHack
> (unless its changed of late), which is why it shows up in (say)
> Preferences.. you've Font Hacked the base Font to be Lubak. 
However,
> you've left Shadows normal font to some bold font setting in the 
Display
> Prefs...
> 
> 	So do you have FontHack and FontBucket going? (ie: Can't 
help
> until I've got an idea of your setup :)
> 
> 		jeff

Got it - I had the "always bold title" preference checked - this is 
known I believe as a _feature_ (<grin>)- sorry for the confusion.

As for the icons...I also amprimarily interested in the checklist 
icons (checkbox, arrow, notes icon) ... though I would say my 
aging eyes have trouble both seeing and tapping them.

Thanks!

John 


> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"
9569

From: johnleonard99 john.leonard@p...  <john.leonard@p...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 3:17pm
Subject: Shadow as a To-Do replacement

 
Let me explain what I'm trying to do, then perhaps someone can tell 
how I can incorporate Shadow Plan into a solution.  My goal is to 
substitute Shadow Plan for the Palm ToDo application.

I'm applying GTD using Outlook and a Handspring Treo.  My main source 
of input is Outlook.  I have adopted the "projects as contacts" 
model, and prefer to process my inbox at the computer.  ALL my new 
tasks are created at the desktop, either as I process email or as I 
process my paper-based inbox.

I keep my Treo synched with Outlook, and use it check lists when I'm 
away from the computer, perform the tasks, check them off, and sync 
the check-off back to Outlook.  This is great for @errands, @calls, 
etc.

My ToDo's in Outlook are categorized by the type of action (e.g., 
@calls, @errands, @computer, @home, etc.)  I have less than 15 
categories, so I override the Palm categories with my Outlook 
categories.

** Problem:  The ToDo application on the Palm does not allow sorting 
by "title".  My goal is to filter tasks by category, then sort by tha 
name of task.  While I can filter my ToDos on the Palm by category, 
I'm stuck with due date or priority as the second sort field.


** Shadow Plan to the rescue? **

It seems that the best approach would be to create custom filter for 
each of my outlook categories, so that I filter by category, then 
sort by title, or whatever.

Option 1) Can Shadow Plan create filters using the ToDo categories?  
This would seem to be the simplest solution, but I couldn't figure it 
out.

Option 2) Can Shadow Plan import my ToDo categories as tags?  In my 
current use, I will always have less than 15 categories / tags.

Option 3) Is the solution obvious, but not mentioned above?

Thanks much!
9570

From: tes08558 sicora@e...  <sicora@e...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 6:48pm
Subject: Re:desktop- A Few Random Thoughts

 
A few Random Thoughts -

1) It doesn't have to be great, just a lot better than it is
2) I almost switched to Bonsai to have a complete package (palm and
desktop that works very well)  - I resisted.
3) I thought about switching back to ThoughtManager (excellant desktop
- limited outliner)  tempting but I lose too many options on the Palm
side.
4) So I am back to Shadow on the Palm side and until we get a decent
desktop I will import the items I need printed to ThoughtManager's
desktop and print/edit from there as needed.
5) If HandsHigh added several options (linking, priorities, custom
level colors, etc.) they may take some business away from Shadow and
Bonsai because they currently have the best desktop.
6) I said it once before, all Jeff has to do is download the TM demo
and play with their desktop a bit and he would get a feel for how a
nice desktop should operate - don't copy it, but check it out!  
7)Bonsai desktop, although much better than Shadow, is not as easy to
use as TM desktop.  Maybe I should be writing to Handshigh to improve
the Palm app.


--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...>
wrote:
> Vivian, you know I never hold anything you say against you.always enjoy
> hearing from you!  Cold back there right now eh?  Sunny and about 60
here
> today and for the next few days.  ; )
> 
> I'm in the middle of a marketing plan/blitz myself right now, with
another
> week to complete it to stay within my projected timeframe.  Thus, after
> reading a bunch of the fluff (a second use of that word!), I sort of
went
> off in my own little world for a while and was subtly giving Jeff some
> marketing thoughts.  Of course, since I use the handheld all the time, I
> could enjoy the new items forever, as I haven't loved an addition as
much as
> the auto import of to dos/appts in a long time.I  LOVE THAT FEATURE!
> However, from a marketing perspective, I heard far more voices for the
> desktop improvements compared to the few here and there with their
specialty
> requests, albeit those requests might be very important to those few
users,
> but for most of us the ideas I was hearing would be mere fluff (my
other use
> again!).  I just saw/see an opportunity for Jeff to get a group
behind him
> that could grow quickly based on the increase in a desktop outline
desire I
> have read about recently in various forums.  Hate to see such an awesome
> developer not get a large portion of that market share when it is
there for
> the taking right now.no one will take his increasing handheld share for
> quite some time, but that group that wants the great desktop will
not wait
> forever before choosing another product for good.  Just my thoughts, and
> hope all is well on your coast!
> 
> Kevin
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: veb8 <veb8899@f...> [mailto:veb8899@f...] 
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:43 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> I am sorry if my post came across as critical of your use of the 
> word "fluff" as I certainly didn't mean for it to be.  In all 
> honestly, when you wrote your post on the desktop recently (sorry I 
> forgot the date), I was silently applauding you because you echoed my 
> sentiments so well.  I didn't say anything initially because I didn't 
> know how to write a post without appearing like I was doing a "me 
> too" or piling on.  Guess I am doing it now, right?
> 
> But I also felt that Eric made some good points about his needs on 
> the handheld side also and I wanted to acknowledge those.  I think I 
> identified with him because many times, I have been on the side where 
> I seem to be the only person who thinks a feature is important. Also, 
> my reasoning was I felt that thread was getting off track and I was 
> trying to bring it back.  Obviously, I did a bad job on all accounts 
> and I apologize.
> 
> Hope that clarifies my position.
> 
> Vivian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9571

From: podemskir podemskir@y...  <podemskir@y...>
Date: Sat Feb 8, 2003 8:28pm
Subject: Re:desktop- A Few Random Thoughts

 
I, too, send my lists to Thought Manager to print.  What you get is 
easy print functionality.  I get the checkboxes and clearly printed 
lists simply by clicking the print icon.  Couldn't be simpler.  TM's 
palm functionality is far behing Shadow - can't sort, no tags, etc.  
But the desktop and print are outstanding.



--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "tes08558 <sicora@e...>" 
<sicora@e...> wrote:
> A few Random Thoughts -
> 
> 1) It doesn't have to be great, just a lot better than it is
> 2) I almost switched to Bonsai to have a complete package (palm and
> desktop that works very well)  - I resisted.
> 3) I thought about switching back to ThoughtManager (excellant 
desktop
> - limited outliner)  tempting but I lose too many options on the 
Palm
> side.
> 4) So I am back to Shadow on the Palm side and until we get a 
decent
> desktop I will import the items I need printed to ThoughtManager's
> desktop and print/edit from there as needed.
> 5) If HandsHigh added several options (linking, priorities, custom
> level colors, etc.) they may take some business away from Shadow 
and
> Bonsai because they currently have the best desktop.
> 6) I said it once before, all Jeff has to do is download the TM 
demo
> and play with their desktop a bit and he would get a feel for how a
> nice desktop should operate - don't copy it, but check it out!  
> 7)Bonsai desktop, although much better than Shadow, is not as easy 
to
> use as TM desktop.  Maybe I should be writing to Handshigh to 
improve
> the Palm app.
> 
>
9572

From: gf_gollum gf_gollum@y...  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 8:42am
Subject: Re: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
I'd be interested in this... If it could keep some rudimentary details 
on transfer rates - that would be good too. (I'm having v. slow 
transfer rates via IR modem.. Impossible to find palm tools to help 
you "diagnose" if messing about with settings is improving the 
situation or not)


Regards


Graham
9573

From: tsuchy tsuchy@y...  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 8:02pm
Subject: Desktop Issue

 
Hi,

I noticed that if I have an outline, say:

A
- 1
- - 1.1
- - 1.2
B

And this is hotsynced to the Shadow Desktop, and then I move 1.1 and
1.2 and delete 1, so that:

A
- 1.1
- 1.2
B

After a hotsync, "A" becomes empty (loses all children), because (I
guess) 1 is considered deleted, so 1.1 and 1.2 are also considered
deleted, although they're still there.

I've taken to deleting the XML file in the shadow directory everytime
i make big changes (which i do a lot, since Shadow's my brainstorming
tool and everything is always changing). I've lost data twice, which
i've been able to recover by either re-installing the older file from
my linux box or the shadow backup directory, but this is still a pain.

Does "Install file to handheld" avoid doing a merge of the handheld
file with the desktop file? I guess then I could make changes on the
desktop, although there is still a healthy dose of paranoia, and
misses out on true synchronization.

-Tom
9574

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 10:15pm
Subject: Drag and drop

 
Hi all,

I can't get drag and drop of items working. There's no way I 
can pick up an item with the pen and move it elsewhere in 
the list. I'm using a TT. I even thought it wasn't a 
feature of SP until I read the part of the manual saying it 
*is* implemented as I expected it would.

So what do I do wrong?

- Robert
9575

From: ROYLE Anthony  <anthony.royle@t...>
Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 11:23pm
Subject: RE: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
Maybe I'm odd, but I'd like the opposite ;-)

Telstra in Australia charge a flag fall fee every time I connect to GPRS. I'd love to be able to set my phone to stay connected even if the Palm goes off... 

Don't suppose anyone knows how to do that on a plain old T68?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Saturday, 8 February 2003 5:13
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Any handheld web browser types here?
> 
> 
> 
> 	I've got a Tungsten T myself, and a T68i phone (more or less). I
> can browse via GPRS from my TT via bluetooth to the phone and 
> using the
> phones GPRS connection.
> 
> 	Since I swap between web browser, email, IRC, and other stuff on
> the handheld, I've got all the applications set to keep the connection
> open when they exit. So to turn off the connection I need to 
> either turn
> the device off and wait a few seconds, or open Prefs -> 
> Network and hit
> Disconnect. Sort of annoying.
> 
> 	Would anyone welcome a little tiny app that just connects or
> disconnects the network connection from the command-bar?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>
9576

From: Morgan Young  <morgan@p...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:49am
Subject: RE: Shadow as todo app

 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scarlet_vx <scarlet_vx@y...> [mailto:scarlet_vx@y...]
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 20:06
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Shadow as todo app
> 
> 
> In a perfect world if I was able to look at and check off a Shadow 
> outline in a split screen with my calendar I would not use ToDo 
> entries at all.
> 
> Realistically I think this is more likely to come, if ever, from a 
> calendar program like Datebk5 allowing a 3rd party ap to show in a 
> window.  It's more than I've ever expected you to do for us, Jeff.


I will go with this one.  I would have to agree completely.
even thought about "forwarding" this post to the Datebk group, or CESD.
Can't figure out which......
9577

From: zombiedad zombiedad@y...  <zombiedad@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 2:40am
Subject: Need Help with Anomaly using Tags

 
Since October I have been reading all the post in Shadow-Discuss to 
get insight into how the advanced users access and utilize Shadow's 
features.  From my bird's nest, the community really maximizes the 
features/tools contained in Shadow and Jeff does a great job!  
Listening in to the discussions about new features clues me in to how 
Shadow is used "in the real world".  Thanks.

I am in the process of implementing D. Allen's GThD system.  I need 
help with an anomaly that occurs when I sort my @ in-box list using 
tags.  I capture non-project related items into a file named @ in-
box.  To start, I always assign one of the two below tags to sort 
these items
	Tag1= work
	Tag2=home
I created two custom filters: "sort work tasks" and "sort home tasks" 
to maintain a work/home dichotomy for the in-box. For example, my 
filter sort work tasks has two conditions: Tag association=work and 
Tag Present=False.

Here is my anomaly:
I entered an item described as "revise document" and assigned the tag 
work with a target date=today.  I filter the in-box list with sort 
work tasks filter and revise document does not appear in the filtered 
list.  The work tag is the only tag linked to the item.  When I view 
the list without any filter selected, the item appears in the 
list.  .  If I remove the work tag the item appears in the filtered 
list because the condition tag present = false is satisfied.  I 
assign the work tag to revise documents. I remove the filter and the 
item sorts with all other items due today.  I select the sort work 
tasks filter and the item does not appear in the filtered list? I am 
perplexed!  Has this anomaly cropped up anywhere else?

Some other facts that may help solve this problem.  I have been 
cautious about creating tag categories and tags.  However, as I get 
deeper into GThD, it is clear that my tag category names and tags 
will change.  Currently, the tag "work" appears in two different 
categories.  I created the work tag a second time in a new category 
with my other frequently used GThD tags.  I have not deleted the 
first work tag yet although the manual indicates this would not cause 
problems.  To date, I have deleted a few tags and have renamed 
several categories and tags.

While I hopefully have your attention, on the topic of tags, does 
anyone know what causes all of the empty lines on the HH screen when 
the tag manager is accessed to add/ edit tags.  When I access this 
feature, the beginning of my alphabetized list of tags appears near 
the bottom of the HH screen with many blank lines above the first tag.

TIA


Steve Rabin
9578

From: ijsinger phiijs@h...  <phiijs@h...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:52am
Subject: Re: Need Help with Anomaly using Tags

 
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "zombiedad <zombiedad@y...>"
<zombiedad@y...> wrote:

> Currently, the tag "work" appears in two different 
> categories. I created the work tag a second time in a new category 
> with my other frequently used GThD tags.

I think that's the problem. You _wanted_ to create the same tag in a
different category; but Shadow doesn't allow this. Instead, you wound
up creating a different tag. (To you, work = work; but to Shadow,
each tag is referred to by a different internal reference number. The
two tags sort differently, and filter differently, despite looking
exactly the same to you.)

Hope that I explained that clearly enough, and that my educated guess
is correct.

-- Ira
9579

From: scnunes2@a...
Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 11:10pm
Subject: Outliners & the nature of information

 
Fellow Shadow users - I have been following along on all the feature requests 
and especially people's comments on the use of Tags. Without meaning to cause 
offense, we need to cut Jeff some slack, because it seems that some users 
would like Shadow to do everything, and fry eggs too!!. 
He has created a wonderful, useful program.
I gather that the frequent references to "GTD" (please excuse if I state the 
obvious) relate to a methodology of "Getting Things Done". 
I also subscribe to the Ecco Pro message board, a program that, before it 
ceased to be supported and updated, did for the PC World what I think Shadow 
is coming to do for the Palm.
With that in mind, I hope you all will indulge me if I post on this board 
what I thought made Ecco so useful. There is a plug for Shadow in there, and 
if you substitute Shadow for Ecco as you read, the post is I believe 
relevant, and will hopefuly express what we feel about a great PIM.
Hopefully, it also gives some ideas about what we'd lkie to see in a desktop 
for the program when that matures.
Cheers - 

....
In commenting on your post, let me say that I am not a programmer or person 
with strong technical IT skills. However, it seems to me as an avid Ecco user 
that one of the overiding features that made it such a great program was the 
fact that information captured in it could be made multidemensional, or could 
be looked at in more than one way by assigning it to one or more folders. 
This ability to chrachterize information in many ways is something that we 
humans try to do as a matter of course and is natural to us in thinking and 
assimilating information.
For example, I might capture a series of notes (as a parent item with several 
children) in Ecco that was from a meeting, so I would  assign it to my 
"Meetings" folder, and have a record, all in one place of all my meetings. 
That meeting was about a project, so I'd assign that item to the folder I 
created for that project and have a record of all my activities for that 
project, and it  resulted in some action items for some people, so I'd assign 
the action items children to the folders for those people so I could see 
track the items for follow up. 
All this by a single unified set of data noted in one place but given many 
properties which place it in other relationships Within those relationships, 
Ecco allows you to see the original context of the information .
This is very useful when one has tons of information coming at oneself (I 
deal with over 30 emails a day and can have 10 or 11 processes going on at 
once, all of which are time critical or must be recorded in some way or 
another). Most of this information is not contact driven but rather task or 
project driven, hence ruling out ACT, and is often not a formal project, 
hence ruling out MS Project.
The need to manage this type of information (and so much of it at once) goes 
beyond the mere ability of a program to help you structure information in a 
two-dimensional heirachy. An outline is a useful means of clarifying 
information, yes, but I'd be willing to bet that what made true believers of 
us users of Ecco is this further ability that I outline above. It is also 
what makes Ecco unique, because it's basic outline format helped to do this 
so well. 
Outlook can do this somewhat - you can charachterize information with mutiple 
categories, and see that single information item in multiple categories if 
you sort the "list view" by category, but it is not as neat or 
all-encompassing as Ecco was - you get your journals in one folder, your 
e-mails in another folder, your tasks in a third. I want it all like I had it 
in Ecco - all of that in one place!!.
Ecco also allowed you to build new fields and has a super fast find function 
- not the case in Outlook if you are searching through over 2000 items!! (And 
apparently My Corporate IT group has blocked me from building my own forms in 
Outlook with Exchange as the back end - even in my own personal folders).
Finally can I put in a plug for one of my favorite Palm programs   that has 
some of this multidemnsional ability and is an outliner, but is written for 
the Palm operating System - Shadow (See WWW.Codejedi.com and the Shadow user 
group on Yahoo). In this program, Outline items can have multiple "Tags" 
(sort of an extension of the Palm Categories idea) and you can filter your 
outlines on that basis. Items can also be linked to show up in several 
popular appointment & to-do programs such as the standard Palm apps and 
DateBk5. (I am a user of the program, not in any way involved with it's 
development or marketing). I have tried to get the author to build a conduit 
to Ecco ( the tags on the Palm could in my view easily equate to folders in 
Ecco and the two would be a terrific compliment to one another) but he's got 
a companion desktop product of his own. 
Maybe if we all started a write-in campaign on the Yahoo Shadow User group 
forum???
I apologise to the forum if I went on too long with this  post, or if 
something I said is obtuse or not clear. I have been trying to clarify my 
thoughts on what distinguished Ecco from all the other PIMS (and I have tried 
quite a few of them) there have been at one time or another, and finally was 
able to express it as I have above. I hope this helps the orginal poster on 
this message with his program development.

Looking forward to any one else's thoughts on the matter.
9580

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 7:43am
Subject: RE: Need Help with Anomaly using Tags

 
I think the problem is that the filter can never be true.  If the tag
association is work, then tag present is true, if tag present is false,
there can be no tag association.

> I created two custom filters: "sort work tasks" and "sort home tasks"
> to maintain a work/home dichotomy for the in-box. For example, my
> filter sort work tasks has two conditions: Tag association=work and
> Tag Present=False.
> 
> Here is my anomaly:
> I entered an item described as "revise document" and assigned the tag
> work with a target date=today.  I filter the in-box list with sort
> work tasks filter and revise document does not appear in the filtered
> list.  The work tag is the only tag linked to the item.  When I view
> the list without any filter selected, the item appears in the
> list.  .  If I remove the work tag the item appears in the filtered
> list because the condition tag present = false is satisfied.  I
> assign the work tag to revise documents. I remove the filter and the
> item sorts with all other items due today.  I select the sort work
> tasks filter and the item does not appear in the filtered list? I am
> perplexed!  Has this anomaly cropped up anywhere else?
>
9581

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:34am
Subject: Shadow and GTD Outlook plugin

 
I recently read a post from someone, (Kevin?) that had implemented the GTD
outlook plugin and shadow.

I am finding the way the Outlook plugin interacts with the palm todo
application and SP a little confusing.  In particular, the distinction
between allocating "Project" and "Action" to a task, I can see that Actions
are really categories, but I'm having a little difficulty with "project".
How have others, that are using the plugin, managed the interaction with SP?

TIA

Rita
9582

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:43am
Subject: RE: Need Help with Anomaly using Tags

 
> While I hopefully have your attention, on the topic of tags, does
> anyone know what causes all of the empty lines on the HH screen when
> the tag manager is accessed to add/ edit tags.  When I access this
> feature, the beginning of my alphabetized list of tags appears near
> the bottom of the HH screen with many blank lines above the first tag.

Does this happen when you use the jog dial?  I'm having a similar problem
when I add a link for an Address or a Memo, but not for a tag.

Rita
9583

From: Neal Cordle  <nhcordle@e...>
Date: Sun Feb 9, 2003 9:43pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Issue

 
Tom,

You've discovered a known bug in the conduit that occurs when you do the steps you describe.  Workaround is to sync after you make the moves and before you delete the "old parent."  This is known and Jeff has it on his bug list.

Sorry, I don't know if the "Install File to Handheld" avoids this.

Neal
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tsuchy <tsuchy@y...> 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 3:02 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Desktop Issue


  Hi,

  I noticed that if I have an outline, say:

  A
  - 1
  - - 1.1
  - - 1.2
  B

  And this is hotsynced to the Shadow Desktop, and then I move 1.1 and
  1.2 and delete 1, so that:

  A
  - 1.1
  - 1.2
  B

  After a hotsync, "A" becomes empty (loses all children), because (I
  guess) 1 is considered deleted, so 1.1 and 1.2 are also considered
  deleted, although they're still there.

  I've taken to deleting the XML file in the shadow directory everytime
  i make big changes (which i do a lot, since Shadow's my brainstorming
  tool and everything is always changing). I've lost data twice, which
  i've been able to recover by either re-installing the older file from
  my linux box or the shadow backup directory, but this is still a pain.

  Does "Install file to handheld" avoid doing a merge of the handheld
  file with the desktop file? I guess then I could make changes on the
  desktop, although there is still a healthy dose of paranoia, and
  misses out on true synchronization.

  -Tom






  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9584

From: tewkyep gsuper@v...  <gsuper@v...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:42pm
Subject: Re:desktop- A Few Random Thoughts

 
How exactly do you sent lists to thought manager?  I would love to 
have better printing capabilities (eliminating the tables for dates, 
etc.).



--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "podemskir <podemskir@y...>" 
<podemskir@y...> wrote:
> I, too, send my lists to Thought Manager to print.  What you get is 
> easy print functionality.  I get the checkboxes and clearly printed 
> lists simply by clicking the print icon.  Couldn't be simpler.  
TM's 
> palm functionality is far behing Shadow - can't sort, no tags, 
etc.  
> But the desktop and print are outstanding.
>
9585

From: tarasofsky Tarasofsky@t...  <Tarasofsky@t...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:21pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Issue

 
Possibly, but I have to say that like Tom, I too have experienced data 
loss when making big changes on the desktop . Although I was not doing 
the particular actions Tom referred to.  I am using 2 computers, which 
I know makes things way more complex for the conduit, as I suppose 
does linking to To Do.  Nonetheless, I just wanted to weigh in here to 
say that although vastly improved, the conduit does still seem to have 
a few big issues.

Richard

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Neal Cordle" <nhcordle@e...> 
wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> You've discovered a known bug in the conduit that occurs when you do 
the steps you describe.  Workaround is to sync after you make the 
moves and before you delete the "old parent."  This is known and Jeff 
has it on his bug list.
> 
> Sorry, I don't know if the "Install File to Handheld" avoids this.
> 
> Neal
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: tsuchy <tsuchy@y...> 
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 3:02 PM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Desktop Issue
> 
> 
>   Hi,
> 
>   I noticed that if I have an outline, say:
> 
>   A
>   - 1
>   - - 1.1
>   - - 1.2
>   B
> 
>   And this is hotsynced to the Shadow Desktop, and then I move 1.1 
and
>   1.2 and delete 1, so that:
> 
>   A
>   - 1.1
>   - 1.2
>   B
> 
>   After a hotsync, "A" becomes empty (loses all children), because 
(I
>   guess) 1 is considered deleted, so 1.1 and 1.2 are also considered
>   deleted, although they're still there.
> 
>   I've taken to deleting the XML file in the shadow directory 
everytime
>   i make big changes (which i do a lot, since Shadow's my 
brainstorming
>   tool and everything is always changing). I've lost data twice, 
which
>   i've been able to recover by either re-installing the older file 
from
>   my linux box or the shadow backup directory, but this is still a 
pain.
> 
>   Does "Install file to handheld" avoid doing a merge of the 
handheld
>   file with the desktop file? I guess then I could make changes on 
the
>   desktop, although there is still a healthy dose of paranoia, and
>   misses out on true synchronization.
> 
>   -Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9586

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:18pm
Subject: Re: Shadow as todo app

 
On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, scarlet_vx <scarlet_vx@y...> wrote:

> In a perfect world if I was able to look at and check off a Shadow 
> outline in a split screen with my calendar I would not use ToDo 
> entries at all.
> 
> Realistically I think this is more likely to come, if ever, from a 
> calendar program like Datebk5 allowing a 3rd party ap to show in a 
> window.  It's more than I've ever expected you to do for us, Jeff.

	Currently, Palm OS is (essentially) a single task operating
system. Only one application can run at a time. If it was possible, there
would be split screen windowing systems for Palm OS already. We'll see
with Palm OS6 :) (Thats why DateBk5 is so huge.. it has split screen, not
by running sub apps in itself.. but by having all the code from built in
apps within itself. He got Palm's code, and started growing it years
ago.. so DateBk5 is all the built in Palm apps put into one giant app :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9587

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow's look and feel

 
On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, adirondack_46er <adirondack_46er@y...> wrote:

> I am using Font Bucket - don't remember why, but I didn't find I 
> was as happy with FontHack. Perhaps this is the problem. 
> Lubak's fonts show up in the "select font" screen, and show 
> perfectly in the preview ... they both appear as the bold font on 
> screen.
> 
> I've played with other fonts that come up in the list (Verdana - not 
> sure where it came from - and Word to Go fonts) and get the 
> same result, even if I pick two very different fonts - All list items 
> appear in the selected "bold" font no matter what is set in details. 
> The "due date" column on the other hand _is_ showing in the 
> normal font, no matter what the setting for the list entry is.

	Sounds like something is funny between Shadow and Font
Bucket; using the latets version of FB?

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9588

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Shadow as a To-Do replacement

 
On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, johnleonard99 <john.leonard@p...> wrote:

> It seems that the best approach would be to create custom filter for 
> each of my outlook categories, so that I filter by category, then 
> sort by title, or whatever.

	And just use Shadow in place of ToDo, so you don't have ToDo's
limitations placed upon you ;)

> Option 1) Can Shadow Plan create filters using the ToDo categories?  
> This would seem to be the simplest solution, but I couldn't figure it 
> out.

	For Shadow to refer to a ToDo category is very slow, so we let you
set ToDo categories, but try and avoid referring to them directly.

> Option 2) Can Shadow Plan import my ToDo categories as tags?  In my
> current use, I will always have less than 15 categories / tags.

	We don't yet have a ToDo category to Tag import thing.. since it
is difficult to go both ways. (ie: Since you can have multiple tags per
item, and theres no limit on how many tags you have.... it becomes a
problem). I may build something though.. we'll see.

	Theres a feature next release (its in testing now, and will likely
beta "real soon now") that lets you specify lists to automatically receive
all new ToDos (and or datebook items) into it.. so anything you enter in
Outloko would show up magicly in your Shadow list(s) without any work.
This could help you remove most of your need of ToDo.

> Option 3) Is the solution obvious, but not mentioned above?

	Others can comment best on this; I'm too biased ;)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9589

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:25pm
Subject: Re: Re:desktop- A Few Random Thoughts

 
On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, podemskir <podemskir@y...> wrote:

> I, too, send my lists to Thought Manager to print.  What you get is 
> easy print functionality.  I get the checkboxes and clearly printed 
> lists simply by clicking the print icon.  Couldn't be simpler.  TM's 
> palm functionality is far behing Shadow - can't sort, no tags, etc.  
> But the desktop and print are outstanding.

	Expect lots of desktop growth in the next month or two :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9590

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: Any handheld web browser types here?

 
On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, gf_gollum <gf_gollum@y...> wrote:

> I'd be interested in this... If it could keep some rudimentary details 
> on transfer rates - that would be good too. (I'm having v. slow 
> transfer rates via IR modem.. Impossible to find palm tools to help 
> you "diagnose" if messing about with settings is improving the 
> situation or not)

	Yeah, I started building something that would show the in/out
octets and such, but it started to be a pain so I skipped it. Too many
projects on the go and I don't wish to slow any of them down, so I'll
likely skip this for now. (ie: I got something which just hangs up the
phone, but not really useful enough to release. If I get the net-stat code
useful, I'll post again)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9591

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:29pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Issue

 
On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, tsuchy <tsuchy@y...> wrote:

> Does "Install file to handheld" avoid doing a merge of the handheld
> file with the desktop file? I guess then I could make changes on the
> desktop, although there is still a healthy dose of paranoia, and
> misses out on true synchronization.

	If a file is on both handheld and desktop, then it will only sync,
and it will sync only if the "Synch" checkbox is checked in List
Prefs. "Install to handheld" just sets the file to want to upload to the
handheld, if the file does nto exist on the handheld next sync. (ie: If
you rename or delete it on the handheld, and ask the desktop to send up
the file, you'll be set)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9592

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

 
On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Robert van der Kamp wrote:

> I can't get drag and drop of items working. There's no way I can pick
> up an item with the pen and move it elsewhere in the list. I'm using a
> TT. I even thought it wasn't a feature of SP until I read the part of
> the manual saying it *is* implemented as I expected it would.

	If you drop very quickly after starting the drag (within about
half a second of starting), the drop will be ignored. This is new in 2.6 I
think, as the TT was too sensitive and would cause drag and drops all the
time (whenever you touched the screen too hard), so we had to add a
threshold. So if you drag and drop a second later you shoudl be okay.. but
if you do it too quickly, it'll just be ignored. A safety measure.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9593

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Need Help with Anomaly using Tags

 
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, ijsinger <phiijs@h...> wrote:

> > Currently, the tag "work" appears in two different 
> > categories. I created the work tag a second time in a new category 
> > with my other frequently used GThD tags.
> 
> I think that's the problem. You _wanted_ to create the same tag in a
> different category; but Shadow doesn't allow this. Instead, you wound
> up creating a different tag. (To you, work = work; but to Shadow,
> each tag is referred to by a different internal reference number. The
> two tags sort differently, and filter differently, despite looking
> exactly the same to you.)
> 
> Hope that I explained that clearly enough, and that my educated guess
> is correct.

	Correct; you can make 3 separate tags called "Work", and they're
all unrelated to each other, despite looking the same. In this case, it is
best to have a Tag category to hold cross-over tags that would otherwise
appear in multiple tag categories.. so you know where to fins them.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9594

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:35pm
Subject: Re: Re:desktop- A Few Random Thoughts

 
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, tewkyep <gsuper@v...> wrote:

> How exactly do you sent lists to thought manager?  I would love to 
> have better printing capabilities (eliminating the tables for dates, 
> etc.).

	Just an FYI.. some printing options coming soon. Keep bugging
me. I'm just so flooded with suggestions I'm getting all weak in the head
;)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9595

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 4:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Issue

 
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, tarasofsky <Tarasofsky@t...> wrote:

> Possibly, but I have to say that like Tom, I too have experienced data
> loss when making big changes on the desktop . Although I was not doing
> the particular actions Tom referred to.  I am using 2 computers, which
> I know makes things way more complex for the conduit, as I suppose
> does linking to To Do.  Nonetheless, I just wanted to weigh in here to
> say that although vastly improved, the conduit does still seem to have
> a few big issues.

	Multiple desktops is not a problem for Shadow at all; it was a
problem in Shadow Plan 2.5 and prior, but the conduit in Shadow 2.6 and
later is some serious stuff. The only known issue is the one where
deleting a parent implies deletion of the children (which have been moved
away), and that is an extrenmely complex issue to narrow in on (trust me
;), and I'm working on it :)

	If you had problems with Shadow 2.5 or earlier, I'd suggest trying
the new conduit stuff out. Its spiffy.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9596

From: Kevin Brown  <zephyr@t...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:35pm
Subject: Using Next Step Only Filter

 
I've got a todo list in Shadow that is organized like so:

TASKS
   Task 1
   Task 2
PROJECTS
   Project 1
      Task 1
      Task 2
   Project 2
      Task 1
      Task 2

Ideally, I'd like to filter the list so that I get all of the uncompleted items 
under "TASKS" (none of which have children) and the first uncompleted item 
under each of my projects. The "next step only" filter gives me only the first 
item under "TASKS" and the first item under the first project under "PROJECTS".

Anybody have any ideas on how to do this? I could create a separate list for 
projects, but this seems like too much jumping back and forth. I suppose I 
could also do something with tags or priorities, but this would involve a lot 
of manual fiddling about.
      
--
Kevin Brown
Somewhere on Earth via webmail
mailto:zephyr@t...
9597

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 6:34pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

 
On Monday 10 February 2003 17:31, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2003, Robert van der Kamp wrote:
> > I can't get drag and drop of items working. There's no
> > way I can pick up an item with the pen and move it
> > elsewhere in the list. I'm using a TT. I even thought
> > it wasn't a feature of SP until I read the part of the
> > manual saying it *is* implemented as I expected it
> > would.
>
> 	If you drop very quickly after starting the drag (within
> about half a second of starting), the drop will be
> ignored. This is new in 2.6 I think, as the TT was too
> sensitive and would cause drag and drops all the time
> (whenever you touched the screen too hard), so we had to
> add a threshold. So if you drag and drop a second later
> you shoudl be okay.. but if you do it too quickly, it'll
> just be ignored. A safety measure.

Jeff, the problem is that I don't even get the dragging 
started. I feel stupid as I must be doing something wrong. 
Could you give me an example how I drag an item to another 
position? What do I need to trigger that drag and drop 
procedure? All I get is the info box after a couple of 
seconds holding on an item. I also tried with Jot disabled 
and had the same results.

- Robert
9598

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop

 
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Robert van der Kamp wrote:

> > 	If you drop very quickly after starting the drag (within
> > about half a second of starting), the drop will be
> > ignored. This is new in 2.6 I think, as the TT was too
> > sensitive and would cause drag and drops all the time
> > (whenever you touched the screen too hard), so we had to
> > add a threshold. So if you drag and drop a second later
> > you shoudl be okay.. but if you do it too quickly, it'll
> > just be ignored. A safety measure.
> 
> Jeff, the problem is that I don't even get the dragging started. I
> feel stupid as I must be doing something wrong.  Could you give me an
> example how I drag an item to another position? What do I need to
> trigger that drag and drop procedure? All I get is the info box after
> a couple of seconds holding on an item. I also tried with Jot disabled
> and had the same results.

	Tap down onto an item (but not on the checkbox or other active
parts of it :) and then drag your stylus somewhere. ie: Tapping and
holding in one spot brings up the "glance" window. But tapping, holding,
and dragging somewhere else starts a drag and drop..

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
9599

From: zombiedad zombiedad@y...  <zombiedad@y...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:17pm
Subject: Ignore Previous Post re Anamoly

 
I feel somewhat embarrassed to discover that my anamoly is being 
caused by having two identical tags "work" in different categories. 
This tag thing is powerful and dangerous.  Out of frustration I 
deleted my sort work tasks filter thinking that it was somehow 
corrupted. I started re-creating the filter. When I went to associate 
work with the tag I discovered to my chagrin that two "work" tags 
existed. I interpreted the manual to mean that the filter searched 
for the text string "work".  I do think the manual says that each tag 
is unique (err has a uniqe tag ID) I get it now! Well, I'm sure a few 
of you  have been there and done that. My previous post foreshadowed 
the inevitable when I discussed how my categories and tags were 
changing as I implemented GthD. I will be more careful in the future.

Sorry for the stress on brain cells I may have caused any of you.

TIA

Steve Rabin aka zombiedad
9600

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:33pm
Subject: Shadow as a todo app

 
There are two things preventing me from using Shadow as a todo app:

1. On my Visor Prism (OS3.5.2H), as fast as Shadow is, it doesn't compare to a quick lookup on the Todo App. My imminent new PDA purchase should remedy that.

2. This bug that I reported in October and is still bugging me :

I created a list on the handheld called 'Superlist', and synchronized. I
then used the new Desktop to make many modifications. I resync-ed and
verified that my modifications were all on the HH. I then used Import Marked
Todos to add more items to the list. I then tried to sync and the new
conduit claims that my file wasn't modified:

# [64] ShadP-Superlist: Synchronize (Config: Fast HH over DT)
#   Strategy: Synchronize
#   Fetching details from handheld
#   Found 156 records.
#   Reading undeleted records.
#   Found 0 deleted records.
#   Finished reading records.
#   Fetching details from desktop
#     Synchronize file: 'ShadP-Superlist'
#       libsync version: 0.6.2 built: Oct 22 2002
#       Both sides are same file. Will attempt to sync.
#     FAST sync database: Same handheld<->desktop pair
#
#       Nothing is dirty on either side. Bailing out.
#
# No changes were made. Natch.
# Done.

Not only that, but having gone back to the HH and trying to move the
Imported ('Marked Todo') items around Superlist, I clicked the X (close)
button to close the list and save some of my changes and I got:

MemoryMgr.c, Line:4340, NULL handle

I reset and went back onto the HH and verified that my last changes weren't
saved on Superlist - but they were, so the error is happening after the
saving. I then made one change and was able to save & close the list without
an error.

I then tried to continue with the rest of the changes I wanted to make and
got the same MemoryMgr error above when I tried to save at the end.

I reset again and confirmed that all my changes had indeed been saved, so I
really don't have an idea where the error message was coming from.
I then tried to sync again to see if this time my changes would make it to
the desktop.

They did. To seal the deal, I made some more changes on the desktop side of
Superlist and synchronized. This time, many of the items I had marked for
deletion (perhaps all) in the Desktop had not been deleted and target dates
that were modified were also not taken into account.

Almost every time I use 'Import Marked Todos' I get this crash. Although I spend more time on Shadow, I check the Todo app more often so this really is most bothersome :(

Don't get me wrong though, I still love Shadow :))

Jacob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9601

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:41pm
Subject: Re: Shadow as a todo app

 
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Jacob Share wrote:

> 1. On my Visor Prism (OS3.5.2H), as fast as Shadow is, it doesn't
> compare to a quick lookup on the Todo App. My imminent new PDA
> purchase should remedy that.

	Oooooo, which device you going to get?

> 2. This bug that I reported in October and is still bugging me :
> 
> I created a list on the handheld called 'Superlist', and synchronized. I
> then used the new Desktop to make many modifications. I resync-ed and
> verified that my modifications were all on the HH. I then used Import Marked
> Todos to add more items to the list. I then tried to sync and the new
> conduit claims that my file wasn't modified:
> 
> # No changes were made. Natch.

	Thats pretty strange.. that "dirty detection" system is bullet
proof, and theres never been an issue with it, since conduit day one a
year or two back. So you'd be the first....

	As usual.. got any hacks or speedups in place or active?

> Not only that, but having gone back to the HH and trying to move the
> Imported ('Marked Todo') items around Superlist, I clicked the X (close)
> button to close the list and save some of my changes and I got:
> 
> MemoryMgr.c, Line:4340, NULL handle

	Can you send me (privately) the PDB backup of this file?

> I then tried to continue with the rest of the changes I wanted to make and
> got the same MemoryMgr error above when I tried to save at the end.

	Definitely odd and unheard of.

> Almost every time I use 'Import Marked Todos' I get this crash.
> Although I spend more time on Shadow, I check the Todo app more often
> so this really is most bothersome :(

	I've never had any issues reported with regards to Import Marked.

	You probably won't need import marked in a bit..the new auto
import all new todo / datebook items is changing how I think about things
;)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"
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