From: Morgan Young  <morgan@p...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 2:31am
Subject: RE: Re: Slap support

> For Shadow, I like the idea of having an intermediate popup that 
> would let you choose "new file" (which would create an "unfiled" 
> entry), or that might let you append to a list of existing files....
> 
> Aaron

I like this Idea too.  Morgan

From: tsuchy tsuchy@y...  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 2:40am
Subject: FontBucket/Hands High

This is the extent of my conversation with Hands High regarding
ShadowPlan's listing on the FontBucket site.

Re: FontBucket and Shadow Plan
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 16:38:22 -0800
From: Todd Eagle <REMOVED>
 To: tom <REMOVED>

 Hi Tom,

They didn't contact us to let us know.

Thanks,

Todd

At 10:48 PM 1/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I noticed that you do not list Shadow Plan, the Outliner at
>http://www.codejedi.com/ , on your FontBucket page, even though it uses
>FontBucket.
>
>Thanks
>-Tom
>
>
>Thank you for using Hands High Software,
>
>Debbie

From: Morgan Young  <morgan@p...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 3:50am
Subject: RE: Re: Slap support

> 	I've not used Slap, but from the developer docs, they missed the
> point; i.e.: For interfacing with (say) Shadow.. you can "slap" some text
> over to Shadow, and the goal is that Shadow would receive it, create an
> item, and then show that item (a goto). Well.. it strikes me they'd have
> it better if they would slap the text over, and the item would be created,
> and Slap would return.. that way you could just sit there pumping data
> through it without switching apps much (all in background). That'd be
> something. But I don't know how it handles normal built in apps..
>
> 	Should be an interesting next month though.. lots of good ideas to
> push in :)
>
> 		jeff



I collect all the crap through out the day (or in Psych Class) and just jot
it down, enter it into slap, do an enter stroke, and enter the next thing,
and keep going down the list as my instructor, or whoever, talks a thousand
miles an hour.
Then at the end of Class or my staff meeting (where I am head flunky) or
whatever, I select a little bit of text, enter it to say, Datebk 5 (as an
appointment) then it, (slap) lets me edit that appointment in the datebk
screen, then when I am done categorizing it, timing it, reminding it, and so
on, I hit the memo hardware button and go right back to slap.  I delete that
appointment I just edited, and move on the next tidbit of info I graffitied
as fast as possible, and did not have to worry about it anymore till after
class.
I do that over and over till my "Inbox" (slap screen) is empty.  I like this
very much, cause then I can jot down just the basics at the time, and I can
expunge on them later, and easily add them to Datebk 5 either as an appoint
ment or a todo, or a memo, an address, an email, or a Daynotz entry.
This whole thing is usually done alone, AFTER the meeting/Class.  Shadow is
actually a chore to use, while using this system.
but I can easily see how it would be great if I could incorporate Shadow
into this process.  a replacement to-do item is awesome.  or even some kind
of get along with Datebk 5?
I love the whole Idea.

From: Morgan Young  <morgan@p...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 3:53am
Subject: RE: Completion date?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Crow Family [mailto:crowfam@n...]
> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 17:35
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Completion date?
> 
> 
> Checking off a task should automatically put today's date in the Finished
> Date field.


Yeah.

From: Morgan Young  <morgan@p...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 6:46am
Subject: Shawdow Today & "Send To"

I can't find either of these.
Where do I find them at?
I have looked through the refrence guide (for send to) and searched Palmgear
and the shadow zip file for Shawdow today.
am I missing something?

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 7:01am
Subject: RE: Shawdow Today & "Send To"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morgan Young {REMOVED}
> Sent: 2 February 2003 4:46 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Shawdow Today & "Send To"
>
>
> I can't find either of these.
> Where do I find them at?
> I have looked through the refrence guide (for send to) and
> searched Palmgear
> and the shadow zip file for Shawdow today.
> am I missing something?

Today - tap on the date column of an item and a pop-up list will appear with
<today> and others.  Alternatively, tap on the item, open it, and tap on any
of the date fields (target, start, finish) and the same pop-up will appear.

Send to - copy an item to clip.  Tap the "C" icon on the top right hand side
of the screen and the pop-up will have an option "send to file".

Rita

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 7:06am
Subject: RE: Shawdow Today & "Send To"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Morgan Young [mailto:morgan@p...]
> Sent: 2 February 2003 4:46 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Shawdow Today & "Send To"
>
>
> I can't find either of these.
> Where do I find them at?
> I have looked through the refrence guide (for send to) and
> searched Palmgear
> and the shadow zip file for Shawdow today.
> am I missing something?

I've just re-read your post.  If you mean the Shadow Today application, Jeff
hasn't written it yet, but he will soon if we bug him enough :)

Rita

From: Morgan Young  <morgan@p...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 7:08am
Subject: RE: Shawdow Today & "Send To"

nope, figured it out.
Thank you.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rita [mailto:rblanzan@i...]
> Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 01:07
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Shawdow Today & "Send To"
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Morgan Young [mailto:morgan@p...]
> > Sent: 2 February 2003 4:46 PM
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [shadow-discuss] Shawdow Today & "Send To"
> >
> >
> > I can't find either of these.
> > Where do I find them at?
> > I have looked through the refrence guide (for send to) and
> > searched Palmgear
> > and the shadow zip file for Shawdow today.
> > am I missing something?
>
> I've just re-read your post.  If you mean the Shadow Today
> application, Jeff
> hasn't written it yet, but he will soon if we bug him enough :)
>
> Rita
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

From: sheilap11 sheilap11@y...  <sheilap11@y...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 6:46pm
Subject: todo links with parent info

Hi,
preface this ? with the knowledge I am a relatively new Shadow user, 
but love all the functionality and customization possibilities!

My question revolves on the lists I use as "client mgmt".  Let's say 
every top level is a particular client, then children may be 
specific contacts/projects related to that client.  Then, below that 
are tasks which I assign due dates & priorities to.  Now, since I 
prefer the indent to make viewing clearer and also have many repeats 
of the same task (ex "call re next mtg") with a due date, I have a 
problem when I link to ToDo.  I would like to see the full 
relationship(which is short) so I know who I'm telling myself to 
call!  The todo "XYZ Co/John C./Call re mtg" is more meaningful than 
22 undistinguishable "call re mtg" listings in my palm desktop.  

Any smart solution here I am missing, or should I start thinking 
about how I would filter and use the Shadow Desktop program as 
my "todo manager" and forget the linking?  Or does anyone out there 
have a totally different but better way to do all of this?  I have 
thought about the parent list/child list solution and am 
implementing that for project work, but end up in the same boat as I 
dont want to repeat the project name at every level of the list whne 
I make a todo.  I love using Shadow as the foundation for all this 
work as I can easily go from 30,000 ft to ground level views which 
keeps me much more on track big-picture wise.  I am finding it 
harder to keep it together on the more mundane "who do I call today" 
front though!

thanks!!
Sheila

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 8:38pm
Subject: RE: todo links with parent info

Hi Sheila

> My question revolves on the lists I use as "client mgmt".  Let's say
> every top level is a particular client, then children may be
> specific contacts/projects related to that client.  Then, below that
> are tasks which I assign due dates & priorities to.  Now, since I
> prefer the indent to make viewing clearer and also have many repeats
> of the same task (ex "call re next mtg") with a due date, I have a
> problem when I link to ToDo.  I would like to see the full
> relationship(which is short) so I know who I'm telling myself to
> call!  The todo "XYZ Co/John C./Call re mtg" is more meaningful than
> 22 undistinguishable "call re mtg" listings in my palm desktop.

From the drop down menu, tap tools and then preferences and find the option
"append origin to TD/DB note.  This option will put a message in the note of
the ToDo that tells you which list the item came from and the levels above
it.

Another hint, if you install the hack "Shadow Link" (I think it's in the
files section), when you have the note open, double tap on the file name and
the Shadow list with the item highlighted will open.

Rita

From: Kevin C. Coram kcoram@a...  <kcoram@a...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 2:38pm
Subject: Re: Slap support

Yes!!!

I want to get rid of the built-in Todo as much as I possibly can.
Ideally, I'd only use it for dated Todo's, so they'll show up on my
DateBk3/4/5 calendar.

At the moment, though, I use the Todo links so that I can activate an
action item in a project list, copy it over to my 'Next Actions' list,
and have some assurance that if I change the title/memo/date/checkbox
in one place, the other will get it too. This works, but is a bit
fragile, and doesn't keep tags in sync. I'd ever-so-much prefer to
have item-to-item linking within Shadow, so I could just send a 'link'
to my 'Next Actions' list and know that everything will be kept in
sync.

- Kevin C.

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Griff" <lists@t...> wrote:
> OK, so I'm bugging you about this...maybe my little slip of paper
will
> now have a highlighter scribbled over it ;-)
> 
> Anyway, item-item linking is crucial, for me, to replace todo, and I
> think to some of the others here too.  I have to be able to "build"
a
> list that looks like the todo app for it to be effective for me.
> Without that, I have to put up with seeing parents in filters, and
using
> only one list, blech.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 2:59pm
Subject: Re: FontBucket/Hands High

On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, tsuchy <tsuchy@y...> wrote:

> This is the extent of my conversation with Hands High regarding
> ShadowPlan's listing on the FontBucket site.

	I think I emailed them a year back, but nomatter. I emailed them
just now. We'll see. They're good folks over there I think though, so
probably a matter of time. Its just weird to be listed on a competitors
page :P

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Shawdow Today & "Send To"

On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Morgan Young wrote:

> I can't find either of these.

	The "Today" is just a proposed application I've been thinking of
building.

	"Send To" is to send the clipboard contents to another Shadow
file; it is both under the Edit menu and in the [C] popmenu.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 3:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Slap support

On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Kevin C. Coram <kcoram@a...> wrote:

> Yes!!!
> 
> I want to get rid of the built-in Todo as much as I possibly can.
> Ideally, I'd only use it for dated Todo's, so they'll show up on my
> DateBk3/4/5 calendar.

	I'm thinking we can spend the next couple weeks bouncing around
ideas on what Shadow needs to eliminate the need of the built-in ToDo
entirely. I'm working on some changes to go along that line in general..
but specific "this is what I do in todo, and adding this one thing into
Shadow would eliminate that" would be welcome ;)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Doug  <doug@m...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 3:51pm
Subject: Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support

What's needed for Shadow to replace todo application?
1)Where we choose the applications to go with the link options in <link manager>, I would need to be able to choose a Shadow file in place of a todo app.
2)The information sent to the shadow file would need the origin information we can already send to a todo app, PLUS the tags and other external links (address book, memo).
3)When checked off in the Shadow todo file, the item would also need to be checked off/given a finished date in the original file.
(I do all my todo creation currently in shadow. I then link my todos to the built-in todo app. Sometimes I will go into Datebk5 and edit a todo, usually to add an alarm. I never look at todos in the todo app, just use it as a router to Datebk5. So I would want to continue to create todos in my various shadow files and link to a single todo file. This linking would have to be two way, but would be completely separate to the other Shadow item linking that we have been talking about. This would be just a single two-way link working exactly like a link to the external app.)
That's the basic stuff.
Beyond that there are improvements including:
1) Shadow Today mini-app
2) repeating todos
3) alarms
4) easier tag filtering (needed anyway for other reasons, but eventually for todo replacement also).
Thanks
Doug
     ----- Original message ---------------------------------------->
     From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
     To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
     Received: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:03:54 -0500 (EST)
     Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Slap support
      I'm thinking we can spend the next couple weeks bouncing around
ideas on what Shadow needs to eliminate the need of the built-in ToDo
entirely. I'm working on some changes to go along that line in general..
but specific "this is what I do in todo, and adding this one thing into
Shadow would eliminate that" would be welcome ;)

            jeff



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Ken Stuart  <kstuart@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Shadow as todo app, Slap and Quick Entry

Hello,

I was reading the "Slap Support" thread, and was just about to post a "much
better would be a Quick Entry feature in Shadow" message, when I saw that Ken
L. had already posted that same thought.

Actually, I was thinking this way when I earlier posted the "The Hack that I
Need" message  -  which was a hack that would create a Shadow item, that would
serve exactly the same function as Slap - ie entering of data directly into the
PDA instead of post-it notes.

So, what I would like to see is a global preference OPTION that Shadow starts
up with a blank New Item creation screen, with the list being set to a default
list chosen by the user as a global preference.

This would be similar to the current "Details" screen, except that it really
really should have:

 Tag:  ^ Not Set

where ^ is the symbol that you click to get a list of all Tags in the default
Category.   (I would gladly lose a couple of the blank lines in Details in
order to fit this in, as well moving the Link options stuff up into the Details
screen itself.)

While this would be of value for all uses of Shadow, I personally would find
this a great help in using Shadow as an uber-ToDo-app.

PS  For me - the deciding factor in using Shadow as my ToDo app is TAGS (ie
their unlimited quantity, and ability for more than one to be assigned to an
item).


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...

From: Ken Stuart  <kstuart@e...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 7:37pm
Subject: Re: Mini editor wise

On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 14:18:37 -0500 (EST), Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Rafael Barbera wrote:
>
>> I'm using the minieditor a lot, because is very comfortable to me,
>> viewing all the plan as I insert new task or ideas. Sometimes, when
>> I'm rereading some item, I found that I should explain them (add a
>> note), but I have any direct method to do that. This also happens to
>> me when I'm trying to make a short title on the minieditor, but it
>> begins to grow. A little "N" icon below the "D" one on the MiniEditor,
>> that brings up the Note Editor will be very usefully. At last for me
>> ;-)
>
>	That was the intention; its on my todo list. Its a little annoying
>though.. the OS has some issues jumping frmo very small wnidows to very
>large full screen ones like the note editor :/ It would also imply an
>"OK" for a new item. So I might actually do a trick.. put a [N] button
>there, and when you hit it, it acually hits the checkmark, then writes /A
>into the grafitti buffer for you.. pulling up the note editor :) I'll see
>about doing it soon, as the codes been in place a long time, just not
>tested ;)
>
>		jeff

Can we have a vote/poll about what should be added to the mini-editor?  I
rarely have notes, and if I am going to write an extended note, the extra time
to click on "D" is no big deal.

However, EVERY item in my Shadow app has a Tag, so I personally would much
prefer a "T" symbol that goes to a Tag dialog.

And, I'm sure that there are other people who have yet another preferred
symbol...


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...

From: ericb_la ericb@b...  <ericb@b...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 8:07pm
Subject: New ShadowPlan user: features/bugs

Sorry if my post reiterates the bug/feature requests that have 
already been voiced.  I started to read through the forum posts and, 
in the selfishness of my time, stopped.  :)

1) DT: the File | Save As... feature only exports to HTML; if I 
choose TXT, DOC, or RTF I still get HTML - am I missing something 
here??

2) DT: should allow for changing item types (i.e.: Checklist, 
Tasklist, etc.) as in the HH app

3) DT: when deleting, the item should be highlighted in some 
fashion; maybe bold red and a strikethrough

4) HH: I set the Default List Type to "Tasklist" but all new items 
are of type Checklist - what did I do wrong?

5) HH: ability to rotate the screen 90 degrees in any direction

6: DT: use a hierarchal (sp?) structure to display Shadow files; I 
don't like having multiple windows open; perhaps an interface like 
(gasp!) Outlook where you can add Shadow files in a shortcut bar and 
click each to browse it; right-clicking opens it in a new window if 
desired; similar to an Explorer-type of view

I'm running HH version 2.72 and DT 1.25.

Great app Jeff.  Keep up the good work.

Eric

From: Morgan Young  <morgan@p...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 9:06pm
Subject: RE: Re: Slap support

Make it interface with slap and Datebk 5, and the builtin todo app is GONE.

Just Curious, Do you still have an Atari?


>I'm working on some changes to go along that line in general..
> but specific "this is what I do in todo, and adding this one thing into
> Shadow would eliminate that" would be welcome ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 9:18pm
Subject: Re: New ShadowPlan user: features/bugs

On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, ericb_la <ericb@b...> wrote:

> Sorry if my post reiterates the bug/feature requests that have 
> already been voiced.  I started to read through the forum posts and, 
> in the selfishness of my time, stopped.  :)
> 
> 1) DT: the File | Save As... feature only exports to HTML; if I 
> choose TXT, DOC, or RTF I still get HTML - am I missing something 
> here??

	You need to change the filename extension as well.

> 2) DT: should allow for changing item types (i.e.: Checklist, 
> Tasklist, etc.) as in the HH app

	The desktop doesn't have any idea about item types right
now; they're all the same to it. (Yep, lots to do on the desktop :)

> 3) DT: when deleting, the item should be highlighted in some 
> fashion; maybe bold red and a strikethrough

	A deleted item is shown with a red background.

> 4) HH: I set the Default List Type to "Tasklist" but all new items 
> are of type Checklist - what did I do wrong?

	Try a top level item?

	The best I can think of is that you're creating new items that are
children of some other item and you've enabled an option that causes new
items to take on the appearance of nearby children... ie: You create a new
item, and it sees that nearby items are an overridden type different than
the list, and the new item takes on that type.

	The option is probably buried inthe List Prefs -> Option menu.

> 5) HH: ability to rotate the screen 90 degrees in any direction

	Palm OS doesn't support this except on the Handera. I could build
code to rotate the main list portion sideways, but it would be a hellish
amount of work and of little gain to 99% of people.. sorry :(

> 6: DT: use a hierarchal (sp?) structure to display Shadow files; I
> don't like having multiple windows open; perhaps an interface like
> (gasp!) Outlook where you can add Shadow files in a shortcut bar and
> click each to browse it; right-clicking opens it in a new window if
> desired; similar to an Explorer-type of view

	Theres lots to be done; I'm debating how I wish to approach
this. For now it stays as I work on the Mac and Unix desktops, but once
they're out, we'll see.. I'll be making lots of changes to all of them :)

> Great app Jeff.  Keep up the good work.

	Thanks :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: dpip dennis@p...  <dennis@p...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 1:46am
Subject: Calling all teachers

Any educators use Shadow to handle lesson plans? 

I saw on another list someone mentioned another outlining program to
handle this and thought it would be intersting to see if/how teachers
might use shadow in the same capacity.  For the life of me, I can't
see how it could be used.

Thanks

Dennis

From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 2:25am
Subject: Practical Application for Teachers: Using filters and tags in First Grade Student Reading Logs

It would  help a lot of folks progress in their shadow usage if power users 
would post a detailed "recipe" for an application they have developed.

I thought I would post this in case there are other teachers who needs a 
step by step approach for using some of the power behind their shadow!   I 
would love to hear from others (teachers, especially) on specific 
applications for shadow.  Thank you!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a First-Grade Teacher, I have been very happy and comfortable using 
shadow for outlines for meetings, lists, notes, to-do, plans, etc. Everyday 
I think of something new my shadow can help me with.

Now I am beginning to realize the joy of fluently using some of the power 
features.  It is so exciting and I am getting so productive with my shadow 
in first grade!

My latest accomplishment is:

Creating individual student reading logs for our
  "I Love To Read and Write" Bulletin Board.
I am using the filters and tags.

First I created an inventory of "parents" of all (not *all* but getting 
close, at least all the ones we have used so far this year. . . this is an 
ongoing, year long project, and I have thousands of books...) my books that 
I use for

         -Homework Reading Bags and for
         -Guided Reading in the classroom
         -Daily Sustained Independent Reading in the Classroom
         -Leveled Assessment Books for Running Records

Then, as "children," under each title I put the date and I associate the 
tag with the date the child has read the book.  If I had 4 students in a 
reading group on Monday, I just enter the date under the book, and tag it 
with those 4 kids names.

Meanwhile I have a shadow outline for each student ready to receive data.

Then the filter fun begins!
         -I create and apply a custom filter where the tag association 
matches  student # one.
         -I check off all the books showing under this filter,
         -copy all checked to the clip,
         -send the clip to the file for student #1,
         -un-check all
         -remove the filter
         -clear the clip board
         -begin the routine again, but create and apply the filter for 
student #2

Then I export all my student outlines to memo, pretty---and voila!  Touch 
it up with font size, other formatting, folded report in the middle with 
two columns (to be a 3-dimensional "book" held by a  student-made snow-kid 
picture, labeled  with each child's name , add a little clip art, etc. and 
print out an impressive  list for each child.  Seeing all the books they 
have read by the 100th day of school is very motivating to beginning readers.

This is a project, to generate such a report for each child, that would 
have required many extra hours in my classroom  before I had the 
portability of shadow.   I get so much done on my shadow resting at my own 
home, during commercials, with my feet up in my recliner, my comfy quilt 
over my knees, and a cup of tea . . .

Next year I will have it so much easier with the inventory work done.  I'll 
just delete the tags that refer to this year's students and add new tags 
for next year's crop!

This system also keeps track of which students have which bags of books at 
their home, so I can give "friendly reminders" to look under their beds and 
bring them back to school!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: bstryd610 bstryd@a...  <bstryd@a...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 2:50am
Subject: Re: Slap support

I have been following with great interest the ShadowToday 
conversation as well as the input topic. I have struggled getting my 
Palm Inbox the way I want while trying to use GThD as a process. My 
projects and agenda items are in Shadow and doing my 
thinking/planning with them works well. I link to DateBk5 for my 
front-end.

But the "quickies" I think of are a problem. If I put them in Slap, 
which is a nice simple concept, I can process them to todo's but then 
might need to import a number of them into Shadow. If I try to do it 
all in Shadow, it is not quick enough -- too many screens to tap 
through if I in a conversation and need to keep listening while 
writing. If I put them in DateBk, I have the 
same "thinking/listening/later processing" issue.

It seems a Shadow Today with an integrated input process would REALLY 
be a great thing. I have zip idea re: how difficult this would be. 
But for my "end-user" exprience, something that allows me to input 
text and at one location send the info where I need to during 
processing would be an excellent app. Since HandsHigh sells Slap for 
over $10, I would think, Jeff, you might have some pretty good room 
for cost factors.

I love Shadow, I need DateBk, I just often can't (won't?) stop long 
enough to pop through all the screens necessary.

From: sheilap11 sheilap11@y...  <sheilap11@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 4:03am
Subject: Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support

Hi,
I also use Shadow as an "almost" complete replacement for todo's and 
Doug's list, especially the need for repeating todo's and a "today" 
mini-app is a great description of the functions necessary.

One other observation.  Although I know work on the desktop app is 
secondary, i'd note that one of my main reasons for using the links 
to "todo" (and to datebk) is to have a spot on my PC where I can see 
a quick list of todo's and can check them off rather than 
continually removing and replacing my handheld from its dock.  Even 
though the todo list is not ideal or as useful as Shadow, sometimes 
the desktop app isnt the easiest to use to summarize & check off 
tasks either.  Therefore my suggestion would be giving a thought to 
how the Todo solution relates to the desktop app, and if there is an 
easy way (perhaps thru Doug's todo list + links solution) to have 
the visual on desktop Shadow as well so the functionality (at least 
the basics of viewing todo items by filters & checking off) is avail 
on the desktop too. Then office PC users can keep shadow running on 
the PC as their "todo" app for the workday.

thanks for the AWESOME product & enhancements!
Sheila  


--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Doug <doug@m...> wrote:
> What's needed for Shadow to replace todo application?
> 1)Where we choose the applications to go with the link options in 
<link manager>, I would need to be able to choose a Shadow file in 
place of a todo app.
> 2)The information sent to the shadow file would need the origin 
information we can already send to a todo app, PLUS the tags and 
other external links (address book, memo).
> 3)When checked off in the Shadow todo file, the item would also 
need to be checked off/given a finished date in the original file.
> (I do all my todo creation currently in shadow. I then link my 
todos to the built-in todo app. Sometimes I will go into Datebk5 and 
edit a todo, usually to add an alarm. I never look at todos in the 
todo app, just use it as a router to Datebk5. So I would want to 
continue to create todos in my various shadow files and link to a 
single todo file. This linking would have to be two way, but would 
be completely separate to the other Shadow item linking that we have 
been talking about. This would be just a single two-way link working 
exactly like a link to the external app.)
> That's the basic stuff.
> Beyond that there are improvements including:
> 1) Shadow Today mini-app
> 2) repeating todos
> 3) alarms
> 4) easier tag filtering (needed anyway for other reasons, but 
eventually for todo replacement also).
> Thanks
> Doug
>      ----- Original message ---------------------------------------
->
>      From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
>      To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
>      Received: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:03:54 -0500 (EST)
>      Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Slap support
>       I'm thinking we can spend the next couple weeks bouncing 
around
> ideas on what Shadow needs to eliminate the need of the built-in 
ToDo
> entirely. I'm working on some changes to go along that line in 
general..
> but specific "this is what I do in todo, and adding this one thing 
into
> Shadow would eliminate that" would be welcome ;)
> 
>             jeff
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 4:56am
Subject: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

I agree with Sheila's observations!

I find that i do much of the entry in my Shadow handheld, but also like to view the bigger picture on my desktop during the day, which includes the Today view and task view contained in Outlook.  I bought the GTD add-ins that create some nice categories, but more than that the add-ins allow the email to be assigned/emailed to another, moved, deferred, create a task, etc. very easily from the "new" toolbar at the top.  

For me to truly use Shadow in the method we have all discussed and to get rid of my to do list completely on the handheld, I'd need the Shadow desktop to be upgraded to perform similarly.  Does me no good to have that on my handheld, then no where to view or do the same things on the desktop when I sync.  I have been one to tell the desktop users in the past to hold off until the handheld is finished and has all the extras.  However, now it is time to get that desktop up to par, as many will never use the things we discuss when the desktop will not do the same type of stuff.

I'm seeing lots of procrastination now days on getting to that desktop...pick up that GTD book again Jeff!  ; )

When I read the stuff we've been hearing on here, I think the best marketing for marketshare would now be to finish the desktop and get it as good as the handheld before any of this fluff i'm now reading about.  Just my thoughts, but seems lately the focus has gone off on many tangents.  You know i love the result on the handheld, but now i don't even use the desktop version i bought waaaaaayyyyy back because it is so out of date compared to the handheld.

Guess you've got my point by now, but i've now maxed out on the handheld capabilities for the most part and have found no desktop counterpart to turn to.  Thus, I have turned to Outlook to combine lots of my stuff when I sync, put in the GTD add-ins, and am not sure I would change now that I have put so much time into organizing the desktop to sync with Shadow and yes, I hate to admit still because of my thoughts on the developer, with Agendus.  I just recall that the desktop focus was going to happen long, long ago, and now i think many, like me, have began to find an alternative so we don't have to wait for a good product with which to sync our favorite handheld, Shadow!

Those are my recent thoughts on all this, as i have been very quiet as of late because i mostly don't need the stuff we have been talking about.  Don't get me wrong, as we can all think of one more item we might individually want, as i wanted the check off a to do brings up the next to do thought from a few weeks ago.  However, I don't want a Datebk program with every imaginable option, as that is what drove me back to Agendus even though it is just a bit under optioned for my liking, and again, my aversion to its developer.  Shadow is just about right, still with a bit more than i "need" to work instead of play!  Hmm, how is that desktop idea from way back coming along....

; )
Enjoy,
Kevin

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: sheilap11 <sheilap11@y...> 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:03 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support


  Hi,
  I also use Shadow as an "almost" complete replacement for todo's and 
  Doug's list, especially the need for repeating todo's and a "today" 
  mini-app is a great description of the functions necessary.

  One other observation.  Although I know work on the desktop app is 
  secondary, i'd note that one of my main reasons for using the links 
  to "todo" (and to datebk) is to have a spot on my PC where I can see 
  a quick list of todo's and can check them off rather than 
  continually removing and replacing my handheld from its dock.  Even 
  though the todo list is not ideal or as useful as Shadow, sometimes 
  the desktop app isnt the easiest to use to summarize & check off 
  tasks either.  Therefore my suggestion would be giving a thought to 
  how the Todo solution relates to the desktop app, and if there is an 
  easy way (perhaps thru Doug's todo list + links solution) to have 
  the visual on desktop Shadow as well so the functionality (at least 
  the basics of viewing todo items by filters & checking off) is avail 
  on the desktop too. Then office PC users can keep shadow running on 
  the PC as their "todo" app for the workday.

  thanks for the AWESOME product & enhancements!
  Sheila  


  --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Doug <doug@m...> wrote:
  > What's needed for Shadow to replace todo application?
  > 1)Where we choose the applications to go with the link options in 
  <link manager>, I would need to be able to choose a Shadow file in 
  place of a todo app.
  > 2)The information sent to the shadow file would need the origin 
  information we can already send to a todo app, PLUS the tags and 
  other external links (address book, memo).
  > 3)When checked off in the Shadow todo file, the item would also 
  need to be checked off/given a finished date in the original file.
  > (I do all my todo creation currently in shadow. I then link my 
  todos to the built-in todo app. Sometimes I will go into Datebk5 and 
  edit a todo, usually to add an alarm. I never look at todos in the 
  todo app, just use it as a router to Datebk5. So I would want to 
  continue to create todos in my various shadow files and link to a 
  single todo file. This linking would have to be two way, but would 
  be completely separate to the other Shadow item linking that we have 
  been talking about. This would be just a single two-way link working 
  exactly like a link to the external app.)
  > That's the basic stuff.
  > Beyond that there are improvements including:
  > 1) Shadow Today mini-app
  > 2) repeating todos
  > 3) alarms
  > 4) easier tag filtering (needed anyway for other reasons, but 
  eventually for todo replacement also).
  > Thanks
  > Doug
  >      ----- Original message ---------------------------------------
  ->
  >      From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
  >      To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
  >      Received: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:03:54 -0500 (EST)
  >      Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Slap support
  >       I'm thinking we can spend the next couple weeks bouncing 
  around
  > ideas on what Shadow needs to eliminate the need of the built-in 
  ToDo
  > entirely. I'm working on some changes to go along that line in 
  general..
  > but specific "this is what I do in todo, and adding this one thing 
  into
  > Shadow would eliminate that" would be welcome ;)
  > 
  >             jeff
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: carrdwight carrdwight@y...  <carrdwight@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 9:04am
Subject: Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support

Really the main reason I use the built in todo app is to allow me to 
look at my day in daytimer organizer software and print to a format I 
can look at.  I wish the desktop allowed me to sort, filter and print 
even in a simple form.  I really have trouble looking at the current 
shadow desktop on the screen, and the current print out of shadow 
gives me a real headache.  If the desktop allowed me to perform some 
simple sort, filter and printing functions, I'd probably give up the 
built in todo all together.  I just need to see my data on paper and 
be able to scrible on it in order to think things through.  

Hope I'm being helpful.
Dwight...
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "sheilap11 <sheilap11@y...>" 
<sheilap11@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I also use Shadow as an "almost" complete replacement for todo's 
and 
> Doug's list, especially the need for repeating todo's and a "today" 
> mini-app is a great description of the functions necessary.
> 
> One other observation.  Although I know work on the desktop app is 
> secondary, i'd note that one of my main reasons for using the links 
> to "todo" (and to datebk) is to have a spot on my PC where I can 
see 
> a quick list of todo's and can check them off rather than 
> continually removing and replacing my handheld from its dock.  Even 
> though the todo list is not ideal or as useful as Shadow, sometimes 
> the desktop app isnt the easiest to use to summarize & check off 
> tasks either.  Therefore my suggestion would be giving a thought to 
> how the Todo solution relates to the desktop app, and if there is 
an 
> easy way (perhaps thru Doug's todo list + links solution) to have 
> the visual on desktop Shadow as well so the functionality (at least 
> the basics of viewing todo items by filters & checking off) is 
avail 
> on the desktop too. Then office PC users can keep shadow running on 
> the PC as their "todo" app for the workday.
> 
> thanks for the AWESOME product & enhancements!
> Sheila  
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Doug <doug@m...> wrote:
> > What's needed for Shadow to replace todo application?
> > 1)Where we choose the applications to go with the link options in 
> <link manager>, I would need to be able to choose a Shadow file in 
> place of a todo app.
> > 2)The information sent to the shadow file would need the origin 
> information we can already send to a todo app, PLUS the tags and 
> other external links (address book, memo).
> > 3)When checked off in the Shadow todo file, the item would also 
> need to be checked off/given a finished date in the original file.
> > (I do all my todo creation currently in shadow. I then link my 
> todos to the built-in todo app. Sometimes I will go into Datebk5 
and 
> edit a todo, usually to add an alarm. I never look at todos in the 
> todo app, just use it as a router to Datebk5. So I would want to 
> continue to create todos in my various shadow files and link to a 
> single todo file. This linking would have to be two way, but would 
> be completely separate to the other Shadow item linking that we 
have 
> been talking about. This would be just a single two-way link 
working 
> exactly like a link to the external app.)
> > That's the basic stuff.
> > Beyond that there are improvements including:
> > 1) Shadow Today mini-app
> > 2) repeating todos
> > 3) alarms
> > 4) easier tag filtering (needed anyway for other reasons, but 
> eventually for todo replacement also).
> > Thanks
> > Doug
> >      ----- Original message --------------------------------------
-
> ->
> >      From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> >      To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> >      Received: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:03:54 -0500 (EST)
> >      Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Slap support
> >       I'm thinking we can spend the next couple weeks bouncing 
> around
> > ideas on what Shadow needs to eliminate the need of the built-in 
> ToDo
> > entirely. I'm working on some changes to go along that line in 
> general..
> > but specific "this is what I do in todo, and adding this one 
thing 
> into
> > Shadow would eliminate that" would be welcome ;)
> > 
> >             jeff
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: carrdwight carrdwight@y...  <carrdwight@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 9:08am
Subject: Re: Completion date?

When I check off an item, it doesn't put a finished date 
automatically.  Initally using the built in views messed me up 
because I couldn't understand why my checked off items showed in some 
of the views that they shouldn't have.  I had to manually add 
completion dates to all the checked items.  

Wait, now that I think about it, it might have been only the checked 
items that imported from the built in todo????

Dwight...
--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Crow Family" <crowfam@n...> 
wrote:
> Checking off a task should automatically put today's date in the 
Finished
> Date field.
>  
>  
> 
> Dave Crow
> -------Original Message-------
>  
> From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, January 30, 2003 09:11:57 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Completion date?
>  
> Hi everybody!
> Can anybody tell me if there is a way to record completion date 
upon 
> checking off a task? (Hopefully there is some kind of setting to 
> fullfill that automatically...)
> Bye
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
> 
>  
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: George Hoffmann  <ghoffmann@n...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 2:07pm
Subject: Gant Chart for Desktop

I would find a Gant Chart very useful.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 2:35pm
Subject: Re: Calling all teachers

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, dpip <dennis@p...> wrote:

> Any educators use Shadow to handle lesson plans? 
> 
> I saw on another list someone mentioned another outlining program to
> handle this and thought it would be intersting to see if/how teachers
> might use shadow in the same capacity.  For the life of me, I can't
> see how it could be used.

	Not that I'm an educator (I'm more of a "confounder" ;), but I'd
assume there would be a thousand things you could use Shadow for in the
educational arena. Not "live" perhaps (I don't like whipping out my PDA in
front of dozens of people, since it tends to make me pause, and gets all
their attention on the device).. but in setting up class notes or todo
lists or the like, I'd think you'd find Shadow very useful. The tools and
processed in education probably aren't any different than anything else..
just all your content (work) is different. And you deal with screaming
kids all day, which doesn't help ;) (then again, screaming kids are
probably the same as screaming bosses, customers and co-workers... hmmm, a
new theory about the workplace.. "Hey boss, go stand in the corner!")

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 2:36pm
Subject: Re: Practical Application for Teachers: Using filters and tags in First Grade Student Reading Logs

On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Peggy Darling wrote:

> It would  help a lot of folks progress in their shadow usage if power users 
> would post a detailed "recipe" for an application they have developed.
> 
> I thought I would post this in case there are other teachers who needs a 
> step by step approach for using some of the power behind their shadow!   I 
> would love to hear from others (teachers, especially) on specific 
> applications for shadow.  Thank you!

	Has this been sent to shadow-tips for archival sake? If not,
please send it there too :) (Shadow-tips is like a mailing list dedicated
to only good recipe posting.. I audit it so no junk gets through. So when
you want good ideas, its a good place to look!)

		jeff

> As a First-Grade Teacher, I have been very happy and comfortable using 
> shadow for outlines for meetings, lists, notes, to-do, plans, etc. Everyday 
> I think of something new my shadow can help me with.
> 
> Now I am beginning to realize the joy of fluently using some of the power 
> features.  It is so exciting and I am getting so productive with my shadow 
> in first grade!
> 
> My latest accomplishment is:
> 
> Creating individual student reading logs for our
>   "I Love To Read and Write" Bulletin Board.
> I am using the filters and tags.
> 
> First I created an inventory of "parents" of all (not *all* but getting 
> close, at least all the ones we have used so far this year. . . this is an 
> ongoing, year long project, and I have thousands of books...) my books that 
> I use for
> 
>          -Homework Reading Bags and for
>          -Guided Reading in the classroom
>          -Daily Sustained Independent Reading in the Classroom
>          -Leveled Assessment Books for Running Records
> 
> Then, as "children," under each title I put the date and I associate the 
> tag with the date the child has read the book.  If I had 4 students in a 
> reading group on Monday, I just enter the date under the book, and tag it 
> with those 4 kids names.
> 
> Meanwhile I have a shadow outline for each student ready to receive data.
> 
> Then the filter fun begins!
>          -I create and apply a custom filter where the tag association 
> matches  student # one.
>          -I check off all the books showing under this filter,
>          -copy all checked to the clip,
>          -send the clip to the file for student #1,
>          -un-check all
>          -remove the filter
>          -clear the clip board
>          -begin the routine again, but create and apply the filter for 
> student #2
> 
> Then I export all my student outlines to memo, pretty---and voila!  Touch 
> it up with font size, other formatting, folded report in the middle with 
> two columns (to be a 3-dimensional "book" held by a  student-made snow-kid 
> picture, labeled  with each child's name , add a little clip art, etc. and 
> print out an impressive  list for each child.  Seeing all the books they 
> have read by the 100th day of school is very motivating to beginning readers.
> 
> This is a project, to generate such a report for each child, that would 
> have required many extra hours in my classroom  before I had the 
> portability of shadow.   I get so much done on my shadow resting at my own 
> home, during commercials, with my feet up in my recliner, my comfy quilt 
> over my knees, and a cup of tea . . .
> 
> Next year I will have it so much easier with the inventory work done.  I'll 
> just delete the tags that refer to this year's students and add new tags 
> for next year's crop!
> 
> This system also keeps track of which students have which bags of books at 
> their home, so I can give "friendly reminders" to look under their beds and 
> bring them back to school!

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: imhvfn fkissam@b...  <fkissam@b...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 5:29pm
Subject: Fatal Error

I just downloaded Shadow 2.71 to my Handspring Treo 180.

I created my first item.   I then tried to ADD Link to my address 
book.   As soon as I do that....I get FATAL ERROR....RESET.  I have 
tried it several times and always get that same error.

I am using Win2000 Professional with Handspring Treo 180.   HotSync 
is 3.12H.   ThePalm OS is 3.5.2H5.7

From: gandoe ed_gandorf@m...  <ed_gandorf@m...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 5:31pm
Subject: Linking to other Shadows, and tags

Very, very nice app! I had been using BrainForest, and was scoping 
out new Outliners/arrangers/project planners/etc, especially for use 
as "life fixing/planning", combining both Covey's First things First 
as well as Allen's GTD.

I checked out Arranger, Bonsai, Progect....but Shadow is simply 
outstanding!

Here's one question - when I link to other apps, I have an option in 
the Global Preferences-Links to return to Shadow after a "goto" 
another application (e.g., Memopad, Datebk4) - so if I tap on a link 
in Shadow, it pops up the memo, for example, and then  by tapping on 
the application silk screen button, it brings me back to the Shadow 
outline I was working on.

BUT, when I link to another Shadow outline (say a separate sub-
project that I have linked to a child item in the project overview), 
I'll tap on the link to go to that Shadow outline...but then there's 
no auto-return?!

Also, since one of my key things is having multiple lists of 
categories which can be applied to items, and may be specific to 
outlines...it looks like "tags" can be applied to items, but are 
generic across outlines - is that correct? is there a limit to tags? 
and are Tag Categories a separate category list from the outline 
categories?

TIA
Ed

From: Ken Stuart  <kstuart@e...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 6:26pm
Subject: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:56:35 -0800, "Earthlink" <kevin@g...> wrote:

>For me to truly use Shadow in the method we have all discussed and to get rid of my to do list completely on the handheld, I'd need the Shadow desktop to be upgraded to perform similarly.  Does me no good to have that on my handheld, then no where to view or do the same things on the desktop when I sync.  I have been one to tell the desktop users in the past to hold off until the handheld is finished and has all the extras.  However, now it is time to get that desktop up to par, as many will never use the things we discuss when the desktop will not do the same type of stuff.
>
>I'm seeing lots of procrastination now days on getting to that desktop...pick up that GTD book again Jeff!  ; )
>
>When I read the stuff we've been hearing on here,
> I think the best marketing for marketshare would now be to finish the desktop
> and get it as good as the handheld before any of this fluff i'm now reading about.  

As much as I would like all the stuff that has been suggested, I agree that
making the Desktop support everything currently on the HH would be best !


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

On Tuesday 04 February 2003 19:26, Ken Stuart wrote:
> As much as I would like all the stuff that has been
> suggested, I agree that making the Desktop support
> everything currently on the HH would be best !

That sounds like a LOT of work that's not going into the HH 
app. On the other hand, maybe the source code of SP can be 
used for this.

I'd like to suggest that at least the printing and export 
functions of the desktop app should be completed (better 
layout, tags, etc.).

- Robert

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 8:38pm
Subject: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Earthlink wrote:

> I'm seeing lots of procrastination now days on getting to that
> desktop...pick up that GTD book again Jeff!  ; )

	Zero procrastination. I got tonnes on the go right now, just you
wait ;)

> When I read the stuff we've been hearing on here, I think the best
> marketing for marketshare would now be to finish the desktop and get
> it as good as the handheld before any of this fluff i'm now reading
> about.  Just my thoughts, but seems lately the focus has gone off on
> many tangents.  You know i love the result on the handheld, but now i
> don't even use the desktop version i bought waaaaaayyyyy back because
> it is so out of date compared to the handheld.

	Discussion doesn't hurt; I plan months and months in advance, and
when I'm bouncing ideas around I like to get discussions going so I can
poach the good stuff or work ideas over and refine them.. months before I
need to. This way by the time I get to the development stage, I've already
out thought half the problems I'll encounter.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 8:38pm
Subject: Re: Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, carrdwight <carrdwight@y...> wrote:

> Really the main reason I use the built in todo app is to allow me to
> look at my day in daytimer organizer software and print to a format I
> can look at.  I wish the desktop allowed me to sort, filter and print
> even in a simple form.  I really have trouble looking at the current
> shadow desktop on the screen, and the current print out of shadow
> gives me a real headache.  If the desktop allowed me to perform some
> simple sort, filter and printing functions, I'd probably give up the
> built in todo all together.  I just need to see my data on paper and
> be able to scrible on it in order to think things through.

	These options will be coming sooner rather than later :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 8:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Completion date?

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, carrdwight <carrdwight@y...> wrote:

> When I check off an item, it doesn't put a finished date 
> automatically.  Initally using the built in views messed me up 
> because I couldn't understand why my checked off items showed in some 
> of the views that they shouldn't have.  I had to manually add 
> completion dates to all the checked items.  
> 
> Wait, now that I think about it, it might have been only the checked 
> items that imported from the built in todo????

	That gets complex. But rememebr that a linked-to-ToDo item shares
its Target Date. Checking it off in Shadow will get it checked in ToDo,
and the completion date will be set in Shadow as Finish Date. It can get a
little weird sometimes.. I think theres a lot of refinement coming very
soon :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Linking to other Shadows, and tags

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, gandoe <ed_gandorf@m...> wrote:

> Very, very nice app! I had been using BrainForest, and was scoping 
> out new Outliners/arrangers/project planners/etc, especially for use 
> as "life fixing/planning", combining both Covey's First things First 
> as well as Allen's GTD.
> 
> I checked out Arranger, Bonsai, Progect....but Shadow is simply 
> outstanding!

	Thanks :)

> Here's one question - when I link to other apps, I have an option in 
> the Global Preferences-Links to return to Shadow after a "goto" 
> another application (e.g., Memopad, Datebk4) - so if I tap on a link 
> in Shadow, it pops up the memo, for example, and then  by tapping on 
> the application silk screen button, it brings me back to the Shadow 
> outline I was working on.
> 
> BUT, when I link to another Shadow outline (say a separate sub-
> project that I have linked to a child item in the project overview), 
> I'll tap on the link to go to that Shadow outline...but then there's 
> no auto-return?!

	Correct; in this case people often use the Recent Files popup,
whjich shows rthe last 10 files or so you've been to. It tries to maintain
order since you may have a familiar order in there, but I might make an
option to sort it by "most recently gone to" to make it more useful for
this sort of thing. Or maybe I'll add a "Back" button to it.

> Also, since one of my key things is having multiple lists of
> categories which can be applied to items, and may be specific to
> outlines...it looks like "tags" can be applied to items, but are
> generic across outlines - is that correct? is there a limit to tags?  
> and are Tag Categories a separate category list from the outline
> categories?

	Tags are across all lists (a very useful quality). Each item can
have as many tags as it needs, and you can have as many tags as you want
defined. You can have up to 15 categories of tags, and those tag
categories are unrelated to the file categories from the file selection
screen.

	ie: I categorize files by big-location.. Work, Home, ToDo's, tat
sort of thing. I have tag categories for importance, dependant people and
equipment, where it is possible to do it, etc. (ie: A file in the Home
category might have items doable at Work or Home, for instance).

	Tags will blow your mind ;)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 8:50pm
Subject: RE: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

In general I agree.  I think one thing limiting some people from
registering is the lack of a fully functional desktop.  I don't know
that I personally would use the DT any more if it was equal to the Palm
app.

I know I've made many suggestions over the past month to make Shadow
replace my Todo app.  I'd love to see this, but right now my system
isn't really broken, so I would fully support getting the desktop up to
speed before adding/changing things on the Palm version.

That said, there is one thing that I've mentioned that would make my
current system complete, and that is default category for the todo link
on an item per item basis.  Whether it just takes the primary tag, or
you have a tag category called "category" that is a replica of the todo
categories, or you create an altogether separate "Todo category" field,
this would help me immensely.  Would save a few taps, and allow me to
define context within the Shadow list, before ever linking to todo. 

I guess what I'm saying is, we probably should wait for the desktop to
beef up before massive changes are made elsewhere, however if I could
pick one thing that would help me right now, it'd be this idea of a todo
category per item.

> 
> For me to truly use Shadow in the method we have all discussed and to
get
> rid of my to do list completely on the handheld, I'd need the Shadow
> desktop to be upgraded to perform similarly.  Does me no good to have
that
> on my handheld, then no where to view or do the same things on the
desktop
> when I sync.  I have been one to tell the desktop users in the past to
> hold off until the handheld is finished and has all the extras.
However,
> now it is time to get that desktop up to par, as many will never use
the
> things we discuss when the desktop will not do the same type of stuff.
> 
> 
> Those are my recent thoughts on all this, as i have been very quiet as
of
> late because i mostly don't need the stuff we have been talking about.
> Don't get me wrong, as we can all think of one more item we might
> individually want, as i wanted the check off a to do brings up the
next to
> do thought from a few weeks ago.  However, I don't want a Datebk
program
> with every imaginable option, as that is what drove me back to Agendus
> even though it is just a bit under optioned for my liking, and again,
my
> aversion to its developer.  Shadow is just about right, still with a
bit
> more than i "need" to work instead of play!  Hmm, how is that desktop
idea
> from way back coming along....
>

From: Chris Dent  <cdent@b...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 8:57pm
Subject: RE: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Griff wrote:

> In general I agree.  I think one thing limiting some people from
> registering is the lack of a fully functional desktop.  I don't know
> that I personally would use the DT any more if it was equal to the Palm
> app.

Just to make sure this voice is out there:

I personally think that work on the desktop should focus on only
two things: data storage and publishing, to print, file or web.

Data manipulation should happen solely on the handheld, to
encourage us all to get off our keyboards and more engaged with
doing other stuff. The handheld can be a life enabling device.

But that's just me being a petulant idealist. The people have
spoken and the people want a full featured desktop, so that's
what should happen. For my own purposes shadow already does
plenty.

-- 
Chris Dent  <cdent@b...>  http://www.burningchrome.com/~cdent/
"If you assume that there is an instinct for freedom, that there are
opportunities to change things, that hope is possible, then hope may be
justified, and a better world may be built. That's your choice." N.Chomsky

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 9:23pm
Subject: RE: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

I want to use the desktop to do lots while I'm at work and on my full 17"
screen.  Why have the large screen and desktop if I'm not going to use it,
as it is easier to see and manipulate if the tools are similar to the
handheld.  I'd like the print stuff too on the desktop, but data
manipulation for my handheld ONLY would seem to eliminate the need for the
desktop program to a large degree.why not store and print from the pda
itself through the desktop's other programs and data bases if you do not
want data manipulation on the desktop?  Just a quick thought on the below
comments.

Kevin

 

Law Office of Kevin S. Giberson

831/722-4500

831/419-7551

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Dent [mailto:cdent@b...] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 12:58 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

 

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Griff wrote:

> In general I agree.  I think one thing limiting some people from
> registering is the lack of a fully functional desktop.  I don't know
> that I personally would use the DT any more if it was equal to the Palm
> app.

Just to make sure this voice is out there:

I personally think that work on the desktop should focus on only
two things: data storage and publishing, to print, file or web.

Data manipulation should happen solely on the handheld, to
encourage us all to get off our keyboards and more engaged with
doing other stuff. The handheld can be a life enabling device.

But that's just me being a petulant idealist. The people have
spoken and the people want a full featured desktop, so that's
what should happen. For my own purposes shadow already does
plenty.

-- 
Chris Dent  <cdent@b...>  http://www.burningchrome.com/~cdent/
 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: imhvfn fkissam@b...  <fkissam@b...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 9:51pm
Subject: How often does Shadow crash?

I hope I don't offend loyal Shadow users.

I am interested in knowing how often Shadow crashes for most people?  
I really need a reliable program to put all my stuff into. I would 
prefer a good simple outliner that does NOt crash....rather than 
having a complex outliner that DOES crash.

What do people think of Shadow vs Arranger or something for 
reliability?

Thank you.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 9:58pm
Subject: Re: How often does Shadow crash?

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, imhvfn <fkissam@b...> wrote:

> I hope I don't offend loyal Shadow users.
> 
> I am interested in knowing how often Shadow crashes for most people?  
> I really need a reliable program to put all my stuff into. I would 
> prefer a good simple outliner that does NOt crash....rather than 
> having a complex outliner that DOES crash.
> 
> What do people think of Shadow vs Arranger or something for 
> reliability?

	For the record I think theres 3 or 4 crash bugs in Shadow, but in
general very few if anyoen will see those in any given month or quarter.
It is interesting that you've managed to hit most of them in your first
day or so.. remarkable!

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 10:00pm
Subject: Re: How often does Shadow crash?

Hmm, I'm a newbee to shadow (using it for 2 weeks) but it never 
crashed my m505 (and now Tungsten|T yeeha ;)
I tried arranger a long time ago, it was very stabile too (but I 
didn't liked it's visual appearence...yeah i know :)
I also tried progect (a nice interface imo) which was very buggy 
(some functions at least and some didn't worked at all) - but hey, 
it's only v0.25 (and free).
But Shadow is unbeatble (tags rawk!!! and custom views+filters... 
just outstanding! (but please add the treelines!)



--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "imhvfn <fkissam@b...>" 
<fkissam@b...> wrote:
> I hope I don't offend loyal Shadow users.
> 
> I am interested in knowing how often Shadow crashes for most 
people?  
> I really need a reliable program to put all my stuff into. I would 
> prefer a good simple outliner that does NOt crash....rather than 
> having a complex outliner that DOES crash.
> 
> What do people think of Shadow vs Arranger or something for 
> reliability?
> 
> Thank you.

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 10:11pm
Subject: Re: Tree lines

hmm, it could alway be the color of the theme (gadget or 
textcolor... I don't know...).
I would not like that but would prefer a one colored tree structure 
(but then i could change the theme colors - no prob with that)...
Or you could add a little (one pixel) shadow next to the tree with 
the contrary color...but i don't think that would look that nice...
So I would prefer my first idea (I would not need a new theme color 
for the tree. Think it would go if it has the same color of the 
gadget.).
Yeah it's not really THAT important(but i like those trees a lot) - 
i know :)


--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, xcivshawn <sbuckley@r...> wrote:
> 
> > Actually, I'm using a low res screen as well (Palm Vx) - I've 
seen 
> > the tree lines in other apps, and they look quite nice - not 
taking 
> > up any more screen space.
> > Of course, this isn't critical - I thought it would be nice as 
an 
> > option "display treelines".
> 
> 	Actuallys its true.. the tree lines don't take up much or any
> space, depending how they're done. They're just sort of a trick to
> do... especially with theming. ie: I coudl make them what
> colour.. gray? And then what happens when they cross a blue or 
green or
> black item? (since you can now assign any colours you want with 
the theme
> prefs). So I'd be drawing lines row by row to change their colour? 
Sort of
> nasty :/ Anothe theme pref colour? Ack :/
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 10:14pm
Subject: Re: How often does Shadow crash?

Just to reinforce Jeff's response, I cannot remember Shadow ever causing my
Clie to reset, and I use Shadow daily. As far as I'm concerned, it's rock
solid.


                                                                                                                    
                    "imhvfn                                                                                         
                    <fkissam@b...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    outh.net>"            cc:                                                                       
                    <fkissam              Subject:     [shadow-discuss] How often does Shadow crash?                
                                                                                                                    
                    02/04/2003                                                                                      
                    03:51 PM                                                                                        
                    Please respond                                                                                  
                    to                                                                                              
                    shadow-discuss                                                                                  
                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                    




I hope I don't offend loyal Shadow users.

I am interested in knowing how often Shadow crashes for most people?
I really need a reliable program to put all my stuff into. I would
prefer a good simple outliner that does NOt crash....rather than
having a complex outliner that DOES crash.

What do people think of Shadow vs Arranger or something for
reliability?

Thank you.


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shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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From: imhvfn fkissam@b...  <fkissam@b...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 10:39pm
Subject: Making the desktop better

I just started using the Desktop.
Is there a keyboard shortcut for indenting an item to the Right 
instead of clicking on that error for us carpal tunnel people.

I plan on having just ONE Shadow file.   Can the program 
automatically open that ONE shadow file rather than opening the 
program and choosing File....OpenShadowPlan.

Is there a file or resource that shows tips for new users?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 10:57pm
Subject: Re: Making the desktop better

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, imhvfn <fkissam@b...> wrote:

> I just started using the Desktop.
> Is there a keyboard shortcut for indenting an item to the Right 
> instead of clicking on that error for us carpal tunnel people.

	There is an unpublished set of keystrokes..

	Ctrl-n for new
	Ctrl-m for new child

	These are likely to change as the desktop grows.

> I plan on having just ONE Shadow file.  Can the program automatically
> open that ONE shadow file rather than opening the program and choosing
> File....OpenShadowPlan.

	We'll see; the plan is to support the usual Windows approach of
having the File menu include the last 5 files you've opened.. so you could
do an alt-f then "1" to open your file, or something to that effect.

> Is there a file or resource that shows tips for new users?

	Take a look in the shadow-tips forum (which is mostly good recipes
for success postings).

		jeff

From: imhvfn fkissam@b...  <fkissam@b...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 11:44pm
Subject: Most robust Desktop Outliner to synch with Palm

This shadow program is by far the BEST Palm outliner I have seen.

However, I really want a very robust Desktop outliner that will 
simply transfer the info to my Palm and then allow minor editing on 
the Palm.   That is because I do 95% of my work at the desktop.

Can anybody make a suggestion?  Is Arrange or Progect or Brainforest 
or any of those what I might be looking for?

From: Sean Cooperrider  <scooperrider@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 11:47pm
Subject: RE: Most robust Desktop Outliner to synch with Palm

Bonsai at Natara.com
 
Sean Cooperrider
Service Director
System Administrator
South Coast Acura
2925 Harbor Blvd.
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
714-979-2500
714-713-4084
 
-----Original Message-----
From: imhvfn <fkissam@b...> [mailto:fkissam@b...] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:44 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Most robust Desktop Outliner to synch with
Palm
 
This shadow program is by far the BEST Palm outliner I have seen.

However, I really want a very robust Desktop outliner that will 
simply transfer the info to my Palm and then allow minor editing on 
the Palm.   That is because I do 95% of my work at the desktop.

Can anybody make a suggestion?  Is Arrange or Progect or Brainforest 
or any of those what I might be looking for?




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: mzehner2000 matt_zehner@p...  <matt_zehner@p...>
Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 2:10am
Subject: Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support

Just wanted to voice another "second" for Sheila and Kevin's comments 
on the need to improve the desktop (can't wait to see the promised 
options!).  I do the vast majority of my todo capture on the desktop, 
in part because I think better on the larger canvas, and in part 
because I create many todos in Outlook by dragging emails over to 
Tasks.  

(So, I guess for Shadow to replace my todo app, I'd need Shadow 
desktop to be able to accept a drag-and-dropped email from Outlook - 
which I expect is pretty far down your list!)

I do capture some quick todos on the handheld - those I do via a 
quick /T in Db5.  Perhaps I'm not being fair to Shadow, but I've 
never found it as easy to enter data there as in DB5.  Perhaps my 
habits would change if Shadow had a "quick add" function that I could 
call up with a keystroke, graffiti in the item text, and then select 
both a todo category AND which Shadow list to add the item to?

Matt

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, carrdwight <carrdwight@y...> wrote:
> 
> > Really the main reason I use the built in todo app is to allow me 
to
> > look at my day in daytimer organizer software and print to a 
format I
> > can look at.  I wish the desktop allowed me to sort, filter and 
print
> > even in a simple form.  I really have trouble looking at the 
current
> > shadow desktop on the screen, and the current print out of shadow
> > gives me a real headache.  If the desktop allowed me to perform 
some
> > simple sort, filter and printing functions, I'd probably give up 
the
> > built in todo all together.  I just need to see my data on paper 
and
> > be able to scrible on it in order to think things through.
> 
> 	These options will be coming sooner rather than later :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 2:18am
Subject: RE: Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support

I do like the idea expressed by Matt for super fast entry into Shadow!

Kevin

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mzehner2000 <matt_zehner@p...>
[mailto:matt_zehner@p...] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:10 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Shadow as todo app, was Re: Slap support

 

I do capture some quick todos on the handheld - those I do via a 
quick /T in Db5.  Perhaps I'm not being fair to Shadow, but I've 
never found it as easy to enter data there as in DB5.  Perhaps my 
habits would change if Shadow had a "quick add" function that I could 
call up with a keystroke, graffiti in the item text, and then select 
both a todo category AND which Shadow list to add the item to?

Matt

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: kdm_hvcrrcom kdm-yahoogroups@h...  <kdm-yahoogroups@h...>
Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 2:30am
Subject: Suggestions

I *just* registered Shadow Plan, and had a few enhancement 
requests.  I'm not sure if this is the place to make them, but I've 
seen others, so . . .   

1)  An aesthetic request, but it would be nice to be able to 
supress, either globally or on a per-list basis, null fields in 
columns.  Specifically, if I'm setting up a hierachy of items, such 
as for a todo list, I may not assign a due date or a priority to 
certain entries that are acting as containers.  Instead of having - 
and --/-- show up as the priority and the date due, I'd much prefer 
to have those blank.

2)  Reflecting names in the todo list.  This one you already 
provide, in the note item in the todo, but I'd like the option to 
have that information included in the todo title, so I don't need to 
look at the note.  Being able to set the dividing character(s) would 
be nice, too.

For whatever it's worth, though I just downloaded and started using 
Shadow Plan, I see myself using Shadow to organize the more 
complicated todos/projects, and keeping track of when I actually do 
them in DateBk5, especially since it allows me to see items due in 
advance of when they're due.

And, as is customary for these sorts of things, thanks for writing 
the program.  I think I'm going to get a lot of usage out of it.

From: Ken Stuart  <kstuart@e...>
Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 4:24am
Subject: Re: Shadow fluff vs. back to the desktop...

On Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:57:50 -0500 (EST), Chris Dent <cdent@b...>
wrote:

>On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Griff wrote:
>
>> In general I agree.  I think one thing limiting some people from
>> registering is the lack of a fully functional desktop.  I don't know
>> that I personally would use the DT any more if it was equal to the Palm
>> app.
>
>Just to make sure this voice is out there:
>
>I personally think that work on the desktop should focus on only
>two things: data storage and publishing, to print, file or web.
>
>Data manipulation should happen solely on the handheld, to
>encourage us all to get off our keyboards and more engaged with
>doing other stuff. The handheld can be a life enabling device.

I think I use Desktop versions of handheld apps for an entirely different
purpose.

I receive emails and other information on my Desktop PC.

I want to make those items into Shadow items, and since the data is on the
Desktop, I want to cut-and-paste the information directly into Shadow.

Currently, I can do that in a limited way with the current Shadow Desktop, BUT
I then have to enter Shadow on the PDA, and find those items and assign tags,
ToDo links, etc.

Since the point of PIM software is to reduce the workload, not increase it,
this extra step is a problem.

Thus, if the Desktop supports Tags, links and so forth, it would be helpful to
me.


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...

From: imhvfn fkissam@b...  <fkissam@b...>
Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 4:42am
Subject: Desktop and Palm app allowing multiple categories

I forgot to mention: I am looking for a Desktop and Palm application 
that will allow me to have to-do lists and projects WITH MULTIPLE 
CATEGORIES assigned to an individual item.  

I really want a very robust Desktop outliner that will 
simply transfer the info to my Palm and then allow minor editing on 
the Palm. That is because I do 95% of my work at the desktop.  I 
would like something VERY reliable on both the desktop and the Palm.  

Can anybody make a suggestion? ShadowPlan Desktop is not robust 
enough.  Bonsai does NOT allow multiple categories?  How about 
Arranger or Brainforest OR any others?  

Thank you.

From: paulbert1 pbert@m...  <pbert@m...>
Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 4:49am
Subject: Scrolling Screen Suggestion

There is a lot of discussion on how to maximize the information that 
can be displayed on the screen. If more than two or three Custom 
List Options are activated (check box, todo link,target date, tag 
column) there is very little room for the note itself.

I don't know if this has been discussed and debated before, but I 
for one would like to see a left to right scrolling capability so 
that extra columns could be added without sacrificing the width of 
the actual note column. The program "Smart List to Go" by Data Viz, 
a relational database program, does a great job of providing 
scrolling left to right to see many columns.

Once you get past the thought that I don't like left to right 
scrolling because it may be a little less convenient, it certainly 
opens up a lot more possibilities of what can be displayed on the 
screen at one time.

Pab