From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:07pm
Subject: Re: Large Files

I have 48 files; the biggest is called "Life Planning" is 517 kb on the 
desktop. On the HH it says (35/806) and 243649.  I don't really know what 
the numbers mean, just that they correlate to the size of the file...   You 
were asking for the largest number of entries . . . so which number stands 
for the number of entries?  You'll have to tell me!  No problems that I 
know of;  it loads pretty fast-- I can count to 9 in my head while it 
fetches all the records on my Clie NR70V/U.

From: Jesse Reyes jreyes1958@y...  <jreyes1958@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Large Files

I tried a large file (495k) which had one file for everthing, (over 
two hundred entries with notes and such, but kept getting memory 
errors (slow to open, close, warning notices from SP) i think this 
has to do with working space memory, not ram on the unit. Have over 
8mb of memory free, but the constraint appears to be in the internal 
working memory that SP uses.  

So hit the wall pretty quickly and i had to split them back into 
separate files (bummer).



--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Peggy Darling 
<peggy_darling@y...> wrote:
> I have 48 files; the biggest is called "Life Planning" is 517 kb on 
the 
> desktop. On the HH it says (35/806) and 243649.  I don't really 
know what 
> the numbers mean, just that they correlate to the size of the 
file...   You 
> were asking for the largest number of entries . . . so which number 
stands 
> for the number of entries?  You'll have to tell me!  No problems 
that I 
> know of;  it loads pretty fast-- I can count to 9 in my head while 
it 
> fetches all the records on my Clie NR70V/U.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:49pm
Subject: Did I mentioned shadow 2.7.2?

I'm not sure if I mentioned ithere; I let Shadow 2.7.2 out on the
website a few days ago, and in shadow-announce of course. It fixes the
oddity a few people spotted where todo linked items could fall through
filters when you first open the list (introduced in 2.7, fixed in 2.7.2).
Theres also a smaller download available in the Downloads section.

	So if you missed it.. just head to http://www.codejedi.com and
pick it up.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: xcivshawn sbuckley@r...  <sbuckley@r...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 3:23pm
Subject: Tree lines

I've searched the archive of this group, and haven't found anything 
similar, so here goes:

In Shadow DT, I really like the tree lines and the little +/- 
boxes.  I find it easier to visualize the relationship between 
parent and children.

Two Questions:

1. Will there be a way to print outlines with tree lines from the DT?

2. Is there any chance of providing this type of display (tree lines 
+/- icons) as an option in Shadow HH?

Thanks!
Shawn

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 3:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

What about a preference for "confirm completion" that would be a pop-up
message that would allow the cancellation of marking the item complete? I
don't have this problem very often, but it doesn't make sense to me to make
a one-tap mistake unrecoverable. Just a suggestion.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once   
                    01/22/2003           and for all!                                                              
                    04:31 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Louis F. Caplan wrote:

> >        A checked item counts as 100% for completion %age
> >        An unchecked item counts as whatever %age it has set to it
> >
> >        Now, when you check an item, it *counts* as 100%, though it
still
> > reads as whatever 5age you last set it at (0% even). The rational was
that
> > if you mischecked the item itwould jump to value 100%, but if you then
> > unchecked it, it woudl go back to its last value. Handy for recovering
> > from mistakes. Does anyone care about this? It would be easier to just
> > have the item truly become 100%...
>
> As a left handed person who occassionally hits the checkbox since I tend
to tap
> on the left side of the screen, this has been useful.  (as is your option
to
> have the scroll bar on the left side of the screen, although that
accounts for
> half of the accidental checking, the other half is from when I select the
list
> but tap once too often)

           I think we're going to lose the ability to return to the
previous
value regardless; the "ideal" solution is where yuo uncheck a value that
is at 100% and it becomes "not a number", and checkign an item makes it
100%. Hmmm. *shrug*

> >        1) Changing to 100% -> makes it checked
> >        2) Checking an item changes it to 100%
> >        3) Unchecking changes it to 0%
> >
> >        That would make me happier ;)
>
> Judging from the e-mails that followed yours, I'm one of the rare
> folks who occaionsally hits the check when I shouldn't.  Maybe I
> should just train myself to tap further to the center of the screen
> then.  "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the
> one."  ;-)

           *g* Hmmm.

                     jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Christonna christonna_scarbrough@c...  <christonna_scarbrough@c...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 4:12pm
Subject: Importing Marked ToDos to Outline on MemStick

Help!

I haven't been able to find any info on this in the archives.  (If I 
missed it, just attribute it to impending senility and cut me some 
slack.) ;)

I created an outline on my memory stick; then I marked up some to do 
for importing into that outline.  When I run the import function, all 
the todos are found, but skipped as "bad".

Is this the intended functionality?

As a workaround, I just put the outline in main memory, but I'd like 
to eventually just keep the data on the memory stick.

Can anybody help?

CDS

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 5:03pm
Subject: Re: What do you hate? :)

> I admire your willingness to ask such a question knowing how much
> discussion it would generate - I can't imagine you were bored! I
> sincerely wish more software developers were as open to input and
> change.

	I'm regretting it now ;) (I can't keep up with the emails, and I'm
sure most people can't either :)

> Cross-list functionality

>     A global 'view' or 'report' function would be one option. Perhaps
> an easier option would be to allow master filter or highlight rules
> that could be applied automatically (on request) to all of the lists.

	Can't do; Palms (until very recent units) just don't have the
horsepower to handle it. ie: I've go moer than 100 lists.. applyign a
fitler to all of them at once, to see all the results.. not gonna happen
:)

	Thats why I've been proposing a potential "week view" type app
that woudl take a filter and apply it across all lists, caching the output
as a report that ti views live. It would have all sorts of tricks built in
to make it "reasonably fast" most of the time (but not all of the time).

>     Out of curiosity - I currently have about 800 records in Shadow
> Plan. I use a lot of notes, filters, and tags and I am constantly
> switching back and forth between Shadow Plan and DateBk5 . I have a
> Sony CLIE N610C and currently both the application and it's data
> reside in main memory. If I were to create one list does anyone have
> an idea of what the performance would be like?

	Depends on a lot of factors. Assumption is that your'e nto killing
all your free internal runtime memory with Hacks. (You onyl get on your
unit about 150k of heap space. Put in a few hacks and you might leave us
with only 100k to run in..)

	If you have 800 items that aren't particular long, do not have
links to ToDo/Datebook/etc, don't have attached ntoes.. you should be able
to put them all in one list without a problem. 

	If all the items link out to somewhere, then on openign the list
every one of them has to be checked to make sure they're present (not
broken) and pick up any changes. 800 links would slow that down. 50 should
be a blink.

	A pile of attached notes slows down load time as they need to be
scanned and sized and cached.

	A pile of expanded (visible) notes on the lsit vie screenmeans
they factor into the display/render time as Shadow must constantly size
them an dall that.

	Me, I don't use Hacks, so I was able to get some huge lists no
problem :)

>     Improved user interface, functionality, and import / export
> ability. Shadow Plan is clearly lagging behind the competition in this
> area. When I was shopping for tools this was a major concern. Now that
> I am using Shadow Plan it has become less of an issue - I do most of
> my work on the handheld.

	I'm fine with two leaders in the field; Shadow is clearly the
superior handheld app, and the other is clearly the leader in the desktop.
Of course, we're catchign up on the desktop slowly, and we'er the only one
with cross platform. so they better watch out ;)

>     I would like to be able to use the 'choose' date function. A
> couple of weeks ago you asked me to remind you about this - please
> consider this to be the reminder.

	In datebook linking? Will happen.

>     I would like the same functionality for Highlights that we have
> for Filters

	Will happen.

> Word-wrap / Truncation
>     I concur with Curt. I would prefer truncation to display as many
> characters as possible (display of partial words). I also vote to keep
> the dots at the end to indicate when truncation occurred.

	We'll see. An evolving discussion.

> 'Reporter' Application
>     I would prefer to keep the functionality within Shadow Plan (see
> the Cross-list functionality comment above). Creating system
> 'extensions' means I have to keep track of additional applications and
> the integration between the applications always seems to suffer.

	Shadow must not become the kitchen sink. At some point soo we have
to start including modules so people can have the parts they want. Its
already getting large..

> 'Today' Application
>     I don't have the need. My 'Today' view is the current day in
> DateBk5. My To-Do's and memos are in Shadow Plan. Improving the
> interaction between these applications as discussed on this forum will
> simply make an already workable solution better.

	We need to define what woud make it better.

	I might not even need a Today app; I coudl just make a tool/plugin
that does mass outlinking for you.. so that your current datebook/todo
could get the linking, but without you manualyl specifying which to
link. But that coudl be clumsy.

> Generating revenue
>     I don't like paying for fixes and I don't like being forced into
> upgrades to get them. I don't object to paying for new or improved
> functionality. $5.00 for major releases sounds pretty reasonable to
> me.

	We'll see. I don't liek changing a policy I've always had
(freebies everywhere)... and I do lik to make peopel smile. Everyone likes
freebies. But I may charge for modules.. somethign liek a Report tool that
not everyone wants, but some really want? Sounds liek a good $5 tool.

> Product development
>     Don't get distracted. I don't need or want Shadow Plan to
> 'everything'. I need it to help me effectively manage a large variety
> of lists and their associated data.

	Which is why I need to make it modular ;)

> Thanks again for an excellent product and your continuing efforts to
> make it even better!

	Thanks for the feedback :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Chuck Anderson  <canderson@l...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:03pm
Subject: Print: Filters on the Desktop

Is there a way to print from the desktop application, only the filtered data and not everything?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:46pm
Subject: Re: Jog dial and back button

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Rita wrote:

> Back button - pressing the back button at the list selection screen opens
> the categories rather than back out to the launcher.  Is this meant to be
> so?

	Yep; the way we do the jogger and back lets you essentially
navigate the whole app and all your lists.. you can go back to the list
picker, change categories, pick a list, enter it.. you can go all arond
using the two buttons :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:49pm
Subject: RE: What do you hate? :)

On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Griff wrote:

> > 	then tap on one of those, and a list pops up to the right of
> that:
> > 
> > 	CLIPBOARD	OPERATION
> > 	---------	---------
> > 	Item (dark)	Cut
> > 	Checked		Copy
> > 	Hilighted	Paste
> > 	.		Move
> > 
> > 	That sort of thing. So you can see you tapped on tem, and then
> > this side menu poped up, and you pick an action say.
> > 
> > 	I could scrap all kinds of menus and stll keep the functionality
> > there...
> > 
> > 	I've got lots of ideas like that :)
> 
> Sounds like we'd be getting into a lot of taps.  I wouldn't want to see
> the menus go. 

	The goal woudl be to reduce taps; ie: If yuo wanted to add 5 tags,
it woudl be fast.. just one tap to check off a tag, then tap an "X" or two
to get out of the system. If you had to chaneg categories.. well, you've
got the two little popped up lists.. the left ahs the category, the right
has the tags. So you'd check away in the tags side, or tap in the category
list to chaneg the visible tags. There can be no more efficient than
that.

> I wonder if this would be getting too fancy, and dare I say, Windows
> like.  I don't see the benefit really in having all these little pop-up
> windows...I'd think it'd add to code bloat too.  It's an interesting
> idea, but I don't think it'd really move Shadow forward all that much,
> and might turn some existing users off.  

	Just an idea. Hard to come up with a better one :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: gf_gollum gf_gollum@y...  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:50pm
Subject: TODAY view and Shadow..

All this discussion about a Today view. I must be missing something.. 
but I 
a) always link entries to a ToDo entry
b) Use the freeware program Today (see 
http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/today.shtml ) which gives you a 
beautifully formatted Today view, and will launch Shadow for you when 
you click on an entry.....

Will link Datebook 5 and Shadow realy  neatly
Graham

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:52pm
Subject: Re: What do you hate? :)

On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Peggy Darling wrote:

> I love my shadow!
> 
> This is a minor annoyance (not a hate-- we don't use that word in
> first grade, where I teach-LOL), and I have no idea if it would be a
> minor deal to fix . . . On the desktop, when I want to open a file, I
> have to click up to 10 times (because I have so many outlines!) to get
> to one of the last outlines on the list.  Could the window be opened
> full-screen size so that all my Shadow outlines are visible?

	I can't work with that window too much; its a variation on the
standard Windows file opener. You can do some tricks.. I think you can hit
a letter to skip down to items with that letter, or drag a scrollbar, or
do other thigns to get around. Maybe the page-down keys or the like. MEss
around a bit and let me know if theres not enuogh navigation, though not
too much I can do with that one.

> I love my shadow!

	Me too :)

		jeff

> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Large Files

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, scarlet_vx <scarlet_vx@y...> wrote:

> What is the largest number of entries people have on their Shadow
> files?  Any problems with very large files?  I am contemplating one
> particularly large checklist that could contain several hundred
> entries.  Thought I'd check around before doing this.  Worst case I
> could do many individual checklists instead.  Thanks for input.

	What kind of unit do yuo have? If your unit is halfway "modern"
you should be able to handle a checklist of several thousand entries. Its
when you have a lot of links or notes that it starts to bog down.

	ie: Let me work it out.. on a halfway moder unit (like a Sony T
series, or a Palm IIIc, or most units) you've got about 150k heap free for
useful stuff. If you have a lot of hacks, you take away from that. A
Shadow list is 226b header, and about 120b per item. Add the average
length of your items.

	So say your making a shopping list, you can bet your items will be
around 30 characters each or less.. so thats about 140b per item really,
plus 226b.

	So 1000 items would be 140*1000 or about 140k.

	So you could fit 1000 items into memory without a problem,
assuming no hacks. Shadow likes to squeeze it all into main memory for
speed sake but if it must it'll swap out the stuff it can't fit into
memory into storage memory, or rely on the original item in the
datafile. It'll cache notes and stuff first.

	So a shopping list of 1000 entries.. easy. A 1000 paragrpah
essay.. kill your palm.

	A Palm Tungsten T mind you has about 500-700k free easy, and is
very fast at swapping. So you can cram some seriously huge lists in there
:)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: What do you hate?

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Ken Latham <clatham1@t...> wrote:

> Hmmmm... I'll step up to that one ... after all, I'm always a sucker
> for that question ;)
> 
> How about a "copy mode" toggle on the clipboard menu.
> 
> Go to menu, toggle "copy" ON.
> Tap at will, each item "highlighted" as tapped.
> Go to menu, toggle "copy" OFF.
> 
> Clipboard now contains all you highlighted items.  You could even
> delay the copy till "copy off" for the perpetually confused among
> us... who like to change out mids as we go... ;)
> 
> And maybe "cut mode" ON/OFF, too.

	Its doable, but could get weird fast.. and people would forget
they're in copy mode (even if it said ***COPY*** somewhere :) and end up
copying the whole list into the thing :)

	I've thought about tap-and-hold-to-copy or tap-and-hold-to-menu
and hit Copy..

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Large Files

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Peggy Darling wrote:

> I have 48 files; the biggest is called "Life Planning" is 517 kb on
> the desktop. On the HH it says (35/806) and 243649.  I don't really
> know what the numbers mean, just that they correlate to the size of
> the file...  You were asking for the largest number of entries . . .
> so which number stands for the number of entries?  You'll have to tell
> me!  No problems that I know of;  it loads pretty fast-- I can count
> to 9 in my head while it fetches all the records on my Clie NR70V/U.

	35/806 means 35 are complete, out of 806. Get to work! *g*

	I forget if it only counts checkable/progress-able items, or all
items. Its probably 806 total items regardless of type, and 35 are checked
(visible or otherwise). So probably 806 items total in there.

	Pretty beefy lists :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Tree lines

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, xcivshawn <sbuckley@r...> wrote:

> I've searched the archive of this group, and haven't found anything 
> similar, so here goes:
> 
> In Shadow DT, I really like the tree lines and the little +/- 
> boxes.  I find it easier to visualize the relationship between 
> parent and children.
> 
> Two Questions:
> 
> 1. Will there be a way to print outlines with tree lines from the DT?

	Maybe. Its not planned now though.

> 2. Is there any chance of providing this type of display (tree lines
> +/- icons) as an option in Shadow HH?

	You dislike the arrows |> and V type icons? (admittedly, a little
Mac-like, but prettier ;) When I get to the point of adding alternate icon
sets (like larger icons for highres) then perhaps I coudl make it thmable
so you pick your own icon sets and peopel draw their own. *shrug*. For
now, I don't want to bloat too much by including another set of icons.

	Lines between parents and children maybe on the HH, if people want
it.

		jeff

> 
> Thanks!
> Shawn
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Importing Marked ToDos to Outline on MemStick

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Christonna <christonna_scarbrough@c...> wrote:

> I haven't been able to find any info on this in the archives.  (If I 
> missed it, just attribute it to impending senility and cut me some 
> slack.) ;)
> 
> I created an outline on my memory stick; then I marked up some to do 
> for importing into that outline.  When I run the import function, all 
> the todos are found, but skipped as "bad".

	Auto-import doesn't look in the files stored on expansion media.

> Is this the intended functionality?
> 
> As a workaround, I just put the outline in main memory, but I'd like 
> to eventually just keep the data on the memory stick.

	That should work fine. I do intend on making the expansion media
system more friendly.. really, in the end, we all want *everything* on
expansion media, to hold onto that precious 16MB Palm OS limit. (Then
again, I expect the 16MB limit to go away on new units pretty soon :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:08pm
Subject: Re: Print: Filters on the Desktop

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Chuck Anderson wrote:

> Is there a way to print from the desktop application, only the
> filtered data and not everything?

	The Shadow Desktop itself does not yet have filtering (sorry!).

	You can however do a save-as and write out a file type of your
choice (txt, html, etc) and then open that file in (say) MSWord to trim it
down a little before printing. Manual filtering, but workable in the short
term.

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:12pm
Subject: Re: TODAY view and Shadow..

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, gf_gollum <gf_gollum@y...> wrote:

> All this discussion about a Today view. I must be missing something.. 
> but I 
> a) always link entries to a ToDo entry
> b) Use the freeware program Today (see 
> http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/today.shtml ) which gives you a 
> beautifully formatted Today view, and will launch Shadow for you when 
> you click on an entry.....

	The reason I'm thinking about it at all is that I truly *truly*
hate apps like that. Its just m opinion, but those apps are a waste of
space.. take the screenshot in that sample:

	"1 Unread message"
	"2 Active Tasks"

	Well.. theres 1/3rd of your screen. How much do you bet it
could've listed the header and the two tasks in that same space?

	Those apps are designed to be pretty, but not functional. If they
had a mode where they'd list the real details, they'd rock.

	I'm tempted just to modify that app to be a bit better and be done
with it :P

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: imjb3 imjb@h...  <imjb@h...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:30pm
Subject: Re: What do you hate? :)

Thanks for the response.

Cross-list functionality
   I would be interested in a function or app that would allow to me 
view filters across all lists - I would want to be able to use it for 
more than just a "week view".

Hacks (Off-topic)
   How do you live without hacks? I try to be very selective but I 
use MultiClip to extend the size of the clipboard, McPhling so I can 
flip between apps without having to go through the 'main menu' 
screen, and Fonthack so I can read the screen without glasses. Are 
there better alternatives?

Date Filters
   Actually, I was referring to a request to add the 'choose date' 
option to the filter manager. I want to create filters that show the 
activities related to a specific project milestones (e.g. activities 
with finish / start/ end dates between 2003/02/01 and 2003/03/01).

Inter-action between Shadow Plan and DateBk5
   Some of the things that would help me include: being able to 
specify date & time when creating the link, being able to create 
multiple links, and being able to goto the associated item in Shadow 
Plan from DateBk5 ('goto' vs 'return' functionality).

Thanks!

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> 
> > I admire your willingness to ask such a question knowing how much
> > discussion it would generate - I can't imagine you were bored! I
> > sincerely wish more software developers were as open to input and
> > change.
> 
> 	I'm regretting it now ;) (I can't keep up with the emails, 
and I'm
> sure most people can't either :)
> 
> > Cross-list functionality
> 
> >     A global 'view' or 'report' function would be one option. 
Perhaps
> > an easier option would be to allow master filter or highlight 
rules
> > that could be applied automatically (on request) to all of the 
lists.
> 
> 	Can't do; Palms (until very recent units) just don't have the
> horsepower to handle it. ie: I've go moer than 100 lists.. applyign 
a
> fitler to all of them at once, to see all the results.. not gonna 
happen
> :)
> 
> 	Thats why I've been proposing a potential "week view" type app
> that woudl take a filter and apply it across all lists, caching the 
output
> as a report that ti views live. It would have all sorts of tricks 
built in
> to make it "reasonably fast" most of the time (but not all of the 
time).
> 
> >     Out of curiosity - I currently have about 800 records in 
Shadow
> > Plan. I use a lot of notes, filters, and tags and I am constantly
> > switching back and forth between Shadow Plan and DateBk5 . I have 
a
> > Sony CLIE N610C and currently both the application and it's data
> > reside in main memory. If I were to create one list does anyone 
have
> > an idea of what the performance would be like?
> 
> 	Depends on a lot of factors. Assumption is that your'e nto 
killing
> all your free internal runtime memory with Hacks. (You onyl get on 
your
> unit about 150k of heap space. Put in a few hacks and you might 
leave us
> with only 100k to run in..)
> 
> 	If you have 800 items that aren't particular long, do not have
> links to ToDo/Datebook/etc, don't have attached ntoes.. you should 
be able
> to put them all in one list without a problem. 
> 
> 	If all the items link out to somewhere, then on openign the 
list
> every one of them has to be checked to make sure they're present 
(not
> broken) and pick up any changes. 800 links would slow that down. 50 
should
> be a blink.
> 
> 	A pile of attached notes slows down load time as they need to 
be
> scanned and sized and cached.
> 
> 	A pile of expanded (visible) notes on the lsit vie screenmeans
> they factor into the display/render time as Shadow must constantly 
size
> them an dall that.
> 
> 	Me, I don't use Hacks, so I was able to get some huge lists no
> problem :)
> 
> >     Improved user interface, functionality, and import / export
> > ability. Shadow Plan is clearly lagging behind the competition in 
this
> > area. When I was shopping for tools this was a major concern. Now 
that
> > I am using Shadow Plan it has become less of an issue - I do most 
of
> > my work on the handheld.
> 
> 	I'm fine with two leaders in the field; Shadow is clearly the
> superior handheld app, and the other is clearly the leader in the 
desktop.
> Of course, we're catchign up on the desktop slowly, and we'er the 
only one
> with cross platform. so they better watch out ;)
> 
> >     I would like to be able to use the 'choose' date function. A
> > couple of weeks ago you asked me to remind you about this - please
> > consider this to be the reminder.
> 
> 	In datebook linking? Will happen.
> 
> >     I would like the same functionality for Highlights that we 
have
> > for Filters
> 
> 	Will happen.
> 
> > Word-wrap / Truncation
> >     I concur with Curt. I would prefer truncation to display as 
many
> > characters as possible (display of partial words). I also vote to 
keep
> > the dots at the end to indicate when truncation occurred.
> 
> 	We'll see. An evolving discussion.
> 
> > 'Reporter' Application
> >     I would prefer to keep the functionality within Shadow Plan 
(see
> > the Cross-list functionality comment above). Creating system
> > 'extensions' means I have to keep track of additional 
applications and
> > the integration between the applications always seems to suffer.
> 
> 	Shadow must not become the kitchen sink. At some point soo we 
have
> to start including modules so people can have the parts they want. 
Its
> already getting large..
> 
> > 'Today' Application
> >     I don't have the need. My 'Today' view is the current day in
> > DateBk5. My To-Do's and memos are in Shadow Plan. Improving the
> > interaction between these applications as discussed on this forum 
will
> > simply make an already workable solution better.
> 
> 	We need to define what woud make it better.
> 
> 	I might not even need a Today app; I coudl just make a 
tool/plugin
> that does mass outlinking for you.. so that your current 
datebook/todo
> could get the linking, but without you manualyl specifying which to
> link. But that coudl be clumsy.
> 
> > Generating revenue
> >     I don't like paying for fixes and I don't like being forced 
into
> > upgrades to get them. I don't object to paying for new or improved
> > functionality. $5.00 for major releases sounds pretty reasonable 
to
> > me.
> 
> 	We'll see. I don't liek changing a policy I've always had
> (freebies everywhere)... and I do lik to make peopel smile. 
Everyone likes
> freebies. But I may charge for modules.. somethign liek a Report 
tool that
> not everyone wants, but some really want? Sounds liek a good $5 
tool.
> 
> > Product development
> >     Don't get distracted. I don't need or want Shadow Plan to
> > 'everything'. I need it to help me effectively manage a large 
variety
> > of lists and their associated data.
> 
> 	Which is why I need to make it modular ;)
> 
> > Thanks again for an excellent product and your continuing efforts 
to
> > make it even better!
> 
> 	Thanks for the feedback :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:33pm
Subject: RE: TODAY view and Shadow..

I agree with Jeff, as the new Agendus Today screen is almost the same as
this one, with a waste of info.  Instead of "Active Tasks", show them to me!
Would be interested to see one like Jeff mentions.

Enjoy,

Kevin

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:12 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] TODAY view and Shadow..

 

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, gf_gollum <gf_gollum@y...> wrote:

> All this discussion about a Today view. I must be missing something.. 
> but I 
> a) always link entries to a ToDo entry
> b) Use the freeware program Today (see 
> http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/today.shtml ) which gives you a 
> beautifully formatted Today view, and will launch Shadow for you when 
> you click on an entry.....

      The reason I'm thinking about it at all is that I truly *truly*
hate apps like that. Its just m opinion, but those apps are a waste of
space.. take the screenshot in that sample:

      "1 Unread message"
      "2 Active Tasks"

      Well.. theres 1/3rd of your screen. How much do you bet it
could've listed the header and the two tasks in that same space?

      Those apps are designed to be pretty, but not functional. If they
had a mode where they'd list the real details, they'd rock.

      I'm tempted just to modify that app to be a bit better and be done
with it :P

--
"Have you played Atari today?"






Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT
 
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=17050160
61:HM/A=1394044/R=0/*http:/www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_5802
,FF.html> HGTV Dream Home Giveaway


 
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupmai
l/S=:HM/A=1394044/rand=376538441> 


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: What do you hate? :)

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, imjb3 <imjb@h...> wrote:

> Thanks for the response.
> 
> Cross-list functionality
>    I would be interested in a function or app that would allow to me 
> view filters across all lists - I would want to be able to use it for 
> more than just a "week view".

	It would be able to do more than just week views; it woudl be able
to do general filters probably.. just week view woudl be the initial
goal. It would not know about hierarchy so realyl would be a tool to show
a flat list of matching items, where the matches could be items within a
week period, a day period, or whatever you define.

>    How do you live without hacks? I try to be very selective but I use
> MultiClip to extend the size of the clipboard, McPhling so I can flip
> between apps without having to go through the 'main menu' screen, and
> Fonthack so I can read the screen without glasses. Are there better
> alternatives?

	I can read the scren in low res or high res mode, though I have
used Font Bucket on occasion; FB is not a Hack. I dont' use the clip much,
and when I do, its in Shadow.. hadow uses its own clipboard for item
clipping, so not a problem. I never use text clipboards. The apps I flip
to are all on the hardkeys or in the first launcher screen. Hitting a
button to go to launcher (or the silk screen if you've got one) is one
tap, hitting the app is another tap. Two taps to go to another app is
pretty good. I keep all the mani apps in one category.

	So I've streamlined to essentials very well, and organized the
frills off the side to not be in the way. "QLaunch" is pretty neat idea,
but I'm too lazy and focused for it.. I only need a datebook and
Shadow.. everything else is a frill :) (my needs are small)

>    Actually, I was referring to a request to add the 'choose date'
> option to the filter manager. I want to create filters that show the
> activities related to a specific project milestones (e.g. activities
> with finish / start/ end dates between 2003/02/01 and 2003/03/01).

	Keep bugging me. That was in my original design (the system can
support it), but never implemented.

>    Some of the things that would help me include: being able to
> specify date & time when creating the link, being able to create
> multiple links, and being able to goto the associated item in Shadow
> Plan from DateBk5 ('goto' vs 'return' functionality).

	I'll be adding some date picker stuff. Multiple links? It only
makes sense to have one datebook link and one todo link on an item (which
you can do now), and you can have as many addresses and memos as you
want. What else could there be?

	I cannot control what yuo can do in DB5. Thats up to them or
Hacks. Ling whipped up a hack that lets you jump from DB to Shadow,
however.. you turn on origin stamps in Shadow, and use ShadowLinkHack to
jump fro a DB5 item to Shadow. Voila. So you're covered :)

		jeff

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > > I admire your willingness to ask such a question knowing how much
> > > discussion it would generate - I can't imagine you were bored! I
> > > sincerely wish more software developers were as open to input and
> > > change.
> > 
> > 	I'm regretting it now ;) (I can't keep up with the emails, 
> and I'm
> > sure most people can't either :)
> > 
> > > Cross-list functionality
> > 
> > >     A global 'view' or 'report' function would be one option. 
> Perhaps
> > > an easier option would be to allow master filter or highlight 
> rules
> > > that could be applied automatically (on request) to all of the 
> lists.
> > 
> > 	Can't do; Palms (until very recent units) just don't have the
> > horsepower to handle it. ie: I've go moer than 100 lists.. applyign 
> a
> > fitler to all of them at once, to see all the results.. not gonna 
> happen
> > :)
> > 
> > 	Thats why I've been proposing a potential "week view" type app
> > that woudl take a filter and apply it across all lists, caching the 
> output
> > as a report that ti views live. It would have all sorts of tricks 
> built in
> > to make it "reasonably fast" most of the time (but not all of the 
> time).
> > 
> > >     Out of curiosity - I currently have about 800 records in 
> Shadow
> > > Plan. I use a lot of notes, filters, and tags and I am constantly
> > > switching back and forth between Shadow Plan and DateBk5 . I have 
> a
> > > Sony CLIE N610C and currently both the application and it's data
> > > reside in main memory. If I were to create one list does anyone 
> have
> > > an idea of what the performance would be like?
> > 
> > 	Depends on a lot of factors. Assumption is that your'e nto 
> killing
> > all your free internal runtime memory with Hacks. (You onyl get on 
> your
> > unit about 150k of heap space. Put in a few hacks and you might 
> leave us
> > with only 100k to run in..)
> > 
> > 	If you have 800 items that aren't particular long, do not have
> > links to ToDo/Datebook/etc, don't have attached ntoes.. you should 
> be able
> > to put them all in one list without a problem. 
> > 
> > 	If all the items link out to somewhere, then on openign the 
> list
> > every one of them has to be checked to make sure they're present 
> (not
> > broken) and pick up any changes. 800 links would slow that down. 50 
> should
> > be a blink.
> > 
> > 	A pile of attached notes slows down load time as they need to 
> be
> > scanned and sized and cached.
> > 
> > 	A pile of expanded (visible) notes on the lsit vie screenmeans
> > they factor into the display/render time as Shadow must constantly 
> size
> > them an dall that.
> > 
> > 	Me, I don't use Hacks, so I was able to get some huge lists no
> > problem :)
> > 
> > >     Improved user interface, functionality, and import / export
> > > ability. Shadow Plan is clearly lagging behind the competition in 
> this
> > > area. When I was shopping for tools this was a major concern. Now 
> that
> > > I am using Shadow Plan it has become less of an issue - I do most 
> of
> > > my work on the handheld.
> > 
> > 	I'm fine with two leaders in the field; Shadow is clearly the
> > superior handheld app, and the other is clearly the leader in the 
> desktop.
> > Of course, we're catchign up on the desktop slowly, and we'er the 
> only one
> > with cross platform. so they better watch out ;)
> > 
> > >     I would like to be able to use the 'choose' date function. A
> > > couple of weeks ago you asked me to remind you about this - please
> > > consider this to be the reminder.
> > 
> > 	In datebook linking? Will happen.
> > 
> > >     I would like the same functionality for Highlights that we 
> have
> > > for Filters
> > 
> > 	Will happen.
> > 
> > > Word-wrap / Truncation
> > >     I concur with Curt. I would prefer truncation to display as 
> many
> > > characters as possible (display of partial words). I also vote to 
> keep
> > > the dots at the end to indicate when truncation occurred.
> > 
> > 	We'll see. An evolving discussion.
> > 
> > > 'Reporter' Application
> > >     I would prefer to keep the functionality within Shadow Plan 
> (see
> > > the Cross-list functionality comment above). Creating system
> > > 'extensions' means I have to keep track of additional 
> applications and
> > > the integration between the applications always seems to suffer.
> > 
> > 	Shadow must not become the kitchen sink. At some point soo we 
> have
> > to start including modules so people can have the parts they want. 
> Its
> > already getting large..
> > 
> > > 'Today' Application
> > >     I don't have the need. My 'Today' view is the current day in
> > > DateBk5. My To-Do's and memos are in Shadow Plan. Improving the
> > > interaction between these applications as discussed on this forum 
> will
> > > simply make an already workable solution better.
> > 
> > 	We need to define what woud make it better.
> > 
> > 	I might not even need a Today app; I coudl just make a 
> tool/plugin
> > that does mass outlinking for you.. so that your current 
> datebook/todo
> > could get the linking, but without you manualyl specifying which to
> > link. But that coudl be clumsy.
> > 
> > > Generating revenue
> > >     I don't like paying for fixes and I don't like being forced 
> into
> > > upgrades to get them. I don't object to paying for new or improved
> > > functionality. $5.00 for major releases sounds pretty reasonable 
> to
> > > me.
> > 
> > 	We'll see. I don't liek changing a policy I've always had
> > (freebies everywhere)... and I do lik to make peopel smile. 
> Everyone likes
> > freebies. But I may charge for modules.. somethign liek a Report 
> tool that
> > not everyone wants, but some really want? Sounds liek a good $5 
> tool.
> > 
> > > Product development
> > >     Don't get distracted. I don't need or want Shadow Plan to
> > > 'everything'. I need it to help me effectively manage a large 
> variety
> > > of lists and their associated data.
> > 
> > 	Which is why I need to make it modular ;)
> > 
> > > Thanks again for an excellent product and your continuing efforts 
> to
> > > make it even better!
> > 
> > 	Thanks for the feedback :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "Have you played Atari today?"
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Kevin C. Coram kcoram@a...  <kcoram@a...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:55pm
Subject: Greetings from new ShadowPlanee

Greetings to the list members! I've recently registered ShadowPlan and
found this messsage list. I'd like to give a big thank-you to Jeff for
creating Shadow, and for supporting it so well!

I've been reading the "what do you hate" thread ... I don't think
there is anything that I "hate". But put me down as another person who
would love to be able to link to Shadow list items the same way we can
link to ToDos! It would make a great tool practically perfect if I
could link a checklist item from my "list of things to do" project
list into my "next actions" list, rather than having to duplicate the
item via the clipboard.

It's a nit, I grant you. But I'd much rather have two Shadow lists
link to the "same" item than have two duplicate items linking to the
same ToDo.

From: vecepet vecerek@t...  <vecerek@t...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:00pm
Subject: Link from DateBk5 to ShadowPlan

Hi,

is there a way to create a link from DateBk5 appointment to an item 
in the ShadowPlan list?

Thanks

Petr

From: Ken Stuart  <kstuart@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:05pm
Subject: Re: TODAY view and Shadow..

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 15:12:05 -0500 (EST), Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
wrote:

>On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, gf_gollum <gf_gollum@y...> wrote:
>
>> All this discussion about a Today view. I must be missing something.. 
>> but I 
>> a) always link entries to a ToDo entry
>> b) Use the freeware program Today (see 
>> http://www.freewarepalm.com/utilities/today.shtml ) which gives you a 
>> beautifully formatted Today view, and will launch Shadow for you when 
>> you click on an entry.....
>>Will link Datebook 5 and Shadow realy  neatly
>
>	The reason I'm thinking about it at all is that I truly *truly*
>hate apps like that. Its just m opinion, but those apps are a waste of
>space.. take the screenshot in that sample:
>
>	"1 Unread message"
>	"2 Active Tasks"
>
>	Well.. theres 1/3rd of your screen. How much do you bet it
>could've listed the header and the two tasks in that same space?
>
>	Those apps are designed to be pretty, but not functional. If they
>had a mode where they'd list the real details, they'd rock.
>
>	I'm tempted just to modify that app to be a bit better and be done
>with it :P

Actually, why does Graham need the Today app at all?

DateBk5 already has a split screen with the ToDo's.

My problem is that the ToDo's it shows:

- are limited to 15 categories, and only one per item
- can only be sorted by the amazingly limited 4 options of the original ToDo
app

As such, it doesn't show me what I need to see, which was one of my original
motivations to use Shadow.   I need Shadow to display my task list with the
appropriate tag filtering and ordering -- nothing else displays it correctly.

However,  I only need DateBk5 to create and edit events with dates, times, and
alarms with advance notice and complicated repeat settings.   The result of all
that is standard Datebook events that can be displayed by any Datebook app.

So, what I really need is an app that displays on once screen:

- Today's events from the standard Datebook database
- One Shadow file with specifiable filtering, highlighting, etc (ie the same
display settings as in Shadow)

Best would be to have two scrollable areas, with the dividing line draggable,
and an option to specify which area scrolls when the app starts.


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:12pm
Subject: Re: Link from DateBk5 to ShadowPlan

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, vecepet <vecerek@t...> wrote:

> is there a way to create a link from DateBk5 appointment to an item in
> the ShadowPlan list?

	When you're in DB5, you can onyl do DB5 things.. which is to say
onyl things in the ToDo and Datebook and other built-in databases.

	You can, however, create the item in DB5, and then import it into
Shadow, using Shadow. ie: You can use "New From" to create a newitem fro
the existing external one. Or you can put "[[[foo]]]" at the front of the
item when you create it in DB (where "foo" is the first few letters of
your Shadow list filename) and then ask Shadow to imported
"marked" todos..

		Jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: kboonzaayer kboonzaayer@y...  <kboonzaayer@y...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:49pm
Subject: Adding multiple tags in different catagories

When I am adding tags, I am often using tags from more than one 
catagory (my tag catagories are context, who, system, status, etc).  
So I would find it convenient to add a tag for instance, from my 
context catagory, then have the catagory list show up again so I can 
select the next relevant catagory and assign a tag from it, rather 
than having to start over at "add tag".  
 
thots or comments?

From: Ken Stuart  <kstuart@e...>
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:54pm
Subject: The Hack that I need

Hello,

I now understand that ShadowLinkHack will bring up Shadow when you are in
another app, which is great for those who need that functionality.

However, what would be most useful to me is - when I am using a different app -
a popup that would allow me to enter a new item into Shadow, without starting
up Shadow, and then return to the other app.

Example:

I am reading an ebook in Palmreader.   In the book, a character says "Man does
not live by bread alone".   This reminds me that I should get a loaf of bread
at the market. :-)

Right now, I have to go to Shadow, and wait while it processes all 400+ items
of my task list, and then enter "Get loaf of bread", and then wait while it
writes the whole file while it is exiting (which I understand are necessary to
provide the functionality of Shadow).  Then I start Palmreader and wait while
it loads the book again.

The "Shadow PopUp Hack" would allow me to create the new item without exiting
Palmreader.   There are existing hacks that will allow me to do this for other
apps, for example, I can enter a "Get loaf of bread" memo into the memopad
database without leaving Palmreader - but I don't use memopad for tasks, and so
I won't end up being reminded to get the loaf of bread (and I might not
remember to copy the memopad item to Shadow, and that would add an extra chore
anyway).

Some of these items that I suddenly remember may not be urgent, for example a
character in the book could say something in Spanish, and that might remind me
to buy a Spanish-English dictionary, but unlike the loaf of bread, it's not
particularly urgent, but still - it will not get done unless it is in my task
list.


--
Cheers,

Ken
kstuart@e...

From: darkoem darkoem@y...  <darkoem@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:28am
Subject: Re: Tree lines

Oh yes!
I would love tree lines!!! (That's the only thing i prefered in 
progect... uh yes it has nothing to do with the functionality, but 
it is so beautiful :)
Please add it if possible...

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, xcivshawn <sbuckley@r...> wrote:
> 
> > I've searched the archive of this group, and haven't found 
anything 
> > similar, so here goes:
> > 
> > In Shadow DT, I really like the tree lines and the little +/- 
> > boxes.  I find it easier to visualize the relationship between 
> > parent and children.
> > 
> > Two Questions:
> > 
> > 1. Will there be a way to print outlines with tree lines from 
the DT?
> 
> 	Maybe. Its not planned now though.
> 
> > 2. Is there any chance of providing this type of display (tree 
lines
> > +/- icons) as an option in Shadow HH?
> 
> 	You dislike the arrows |> and V type icons? (admittedly, a 
little
> Mac-like, but prettier ;) When I get to the point of adding 
alternate icon
> sets (like larger icons for highres) then perhaps I coudl make it 
thmable
> so you pick your own icon sets and peopel draw their own. *shrug*. 
For
> now, I don't want to bloat too much by including another set of 
icons.
> 
> 	Lines between parents and children maybe on the HH, if 
people want
> it.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > Shawn
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: tanker_bob rmattes@c...  <rmattes@c...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:13am
Subject: Re: Did I mentioned shadow 2.7.2?

Jeff,

Ya squashed that bug.  Thanks!

Regards,
Tanker Bob
http://home.cfl.rr.com/rmattes/palmframe.htm
Global moderator at http://www.pdaavenue.com/

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> 
> 	I'm not sure if I mentioned ithere; I let Shadow 2.7.2 out 
on the
> website a few days ago, and in shadow-announce of course. It fixes 
the
> oddity a few people spotted where todo linked items could fall 
through
> filters when you first open the list (introduced in 2.7, fixed in 
2.7.2).
> Theres also a smaller download available in the Downloads section.
> 
> 	So if you missed it.. just head to http://www.codejedi.com 
and
> pick it up.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: vecepet vecerek@t...  <vecerek@t...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:18am
Subject: Bugs in 2.7.2

I've just bought SP and I think I will like it!

So far I have met following minor problems (using TT):

(1) Rename List window does not support clipboard operations. I have 
tried menu command stroke.

(2) In List Preferences window I change category. Then I open Opt 
window. When this window closes, category pop up shows random 
characters (however it looks like selected category does not change)

(3) Lowres is really nice, hires deserves some tuning :-)

Thanks for the answer.

Petr

From: vjornes vjornes@y...  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:20am
Subject: Re: What do you hate? - List alignment

When part of one item is visible at the top of the screen its not
indented correctly - that drives me nuts.
It looks like the item at the top is a parent when really its at the
same level, so before I do any changes, especially when dragging items
around, changing indents etc, I always scroll up to check, then back
down, then do the change.
I dont know if its platform dependent - I have a IIIc.  Just checked -
the problem is still there with 2.7.2.

From: vjornes vjornes@y...  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:28am
Subject: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> What about a preference for "confirm completion" that would be a pop-up
> message that would allow the cancellation of marking the item
complete? I
> don't have this problem very often, but it doesn't make sense to me
to make
> a one-tap mistake unrecoverable. Just a suggestion.

I fully agree that this one tap mistake is a real pain - happens to me
when I try to drag items - its too easy to miss/bounce and hit a
checkbox.  You know youve done 'something' you didnt mean to but dont
always know exactly what.

Rather than slow things down with an "are you really, really sure"
box, I'd prefer an undo ability (not for dragging etc. - too much work
as I understand) but just for the uncheck ability to restore children
to their previous state.

From: genice1130@a...
Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tree lines

Put another one on the list for tree lines!
George
Baltimore

From: vjornes vjornes@y...  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:37am
Subject: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Louis F. Caplan" 

> Judging from the e-mails that followed yours, I'm one of the rare
folks who occaionsally hits the check when I shouldn't. 

You're not the only one.  I'm right handed but try to avoid dragging
as I've hit the complete box one too many times!  (I use the button
bar where practical instead and try to avoid big changes).
It would be nice if the 'previous' percentages/ checked status was
somehow hidden or temporarily stored so that one level of undo could
be supported.

Oh well.

From: lazza firstpacific@r...  <firstpacific@r...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:44am
Subject: Re: Theme

Jeff,

Any chance you could make the mini-app?
You said to remind you in a few days time.

Many thanks,
Larry

>> I can't find anything there that looks like prefs.

>      I should make a pref-clearing mini-app. Remind me in a couple 
>of
>days and maybeI can squeeze that in. Otherwise.. theres always 
>launcher X
>:)

            jeff

From: scarlet_vx scarlet_vx@y...  <scarlet_vx@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:59am
Subject: Re: Large Files

I have a Clie T615C and 4 hacks.  I'll give it a cautious shot then.  
I don't expect to reach 1000.  Thanks to everybody who answered!

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> 
wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, scarlet_vx <scarlet_vx@y...> wrote:
> 
> > What is the largest number of entries people have on their Shadow
> > files?  Any problems with very large files?  > 

> 	ie: Let me work it out.. on a halfway moder unit (like a Sony 
T
> series, or a Palm IIIc, or most units) you've got about 150k heap 
free for
> useful stuff. If you have a lot of hacks, you take away from that. A
> Shadow list is 226b header, and about 120b per item. Add the average
> length of your items.
> 
> 	So say your making a shopping list, you can bet your items 
will be
> around 30 characters each or less.. so thats about 140b per item 
really,
> plus 226b.
> 
> 	So 1000 items would be 140*1000 or about 140k.
> 
> 	So you could fit 1000 items into memory without a problem,
> assuming no hacks. > 
> 		jeff

From: Bree breegenie@y...  <breegenie@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:33am
Subject: Re: ... and Mac question

Question: does the OS independent nature of ShadowSync mean I would be
able to sync Shadow to BOTH my PC at work and my Mac at home (when the
Mac OS X desktop is ready)? 

That would be wonderful for implementing David Allen's Getting Things
Done at home and work! Right now I haven't fully implemented GtD using
my Clie because I prefer Shadow to "other" outliners, but I don't want
to give up my Mac either!

breegenie

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	Same handheld side; the Mac OSX desktop and conduit tie into the
> same systems that the Windows and Unix stuff does. (Its a pretty neat
> little system) ie: Shadow uses raw palm databases, and the conduit ties
> into them. It goes through an interface "ShadowSync" as a layer of
> abstraction for some of the data. As long as you have ShadowSync on your
> handheld in main RAM, the conduit will work be it from a Mac or Windows.
> The desktop itself is all one codebase for all platforms.. only the
> OS-dependant libraries and the conduit need to change for each platform,
> and the conduit has an OS-independant core. For the Mac desktop, you
will
> just copy a couple of files to specific places on yuor machine and
your'e
> done :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "Have you played Atari today?"

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:19am
Subject: Re: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

same here with that suggestion of an undo to previous state...
Kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: vjornes <vjornes@y...> 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:28 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!


  --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, smasters@a... wrote:
  > 
  > What about a preference for "confirm completion" that would be a pop-up
  > message that would allow the cancellation of marking the item
  complete? I
  > don't have this problem very often, but it doesn't make sense to me
  to make
  > a one-tap mistake unrecoverable. Just a suggestion.

  I fully agree that this one tap mistake is a real pain - happens to me
  when I try to drag items - its too easy to miss/bounce and hit a
  checkbox.  You know youve done 'something' you didnt mean to but dont
  always know exactly what.

  Rather than slow things down with an "are you really, really sure"
  box, I'd prefer an undo ability (not for dragging etc. - too much work
  as I understand) but just for the uncheck ability to restore children
  to their previous state.


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
       
       

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Ken Latham clatham1@t...  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:55am
Subject: Re: Tree lines

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "xcivshawn <sbuckley@r...>"
<sbuckley@r...> wrote:
> I've searched the archive of this group, and haven't found anything 
> similar, so here goes:
> 
> In Shadow DT, I really like the tree lines and the little +/- 
> boxes.  I find it easier to visualize the relationship between 
> parent and children.
> 
> Two Questions:
> 
> 1. Will there be a way to print outlines with tree lines from the
DT?
> 
> 2. Is there any chance of providing this type of display (tree
lines 
> +/- icons) as an option in Shadow HH?
> 
> Thanks!
> Shawn

I suppose that *might* help visually.  For us "old timers" with
low-res screens, anything that would take more room would be a bad
thing.

Ken

Hmmm, not sure whether that's a vote "for" or "against"!

From: Ken Latham clatham1@t...  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:21am
Subject: Re: What do you hate?

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Ken Latham <clatham1@t...> wrote:
> 
<snip>
> > Clipboard now contains all you highlighted items.  You could even
> > delay the copy till "copy off" for the perpetually confused among
> > us... who like to change out mids as we go... ;)
> > 
> > And maybe "cut mode" ON/OFF, too.
> 
> 	Its doable, but could get weird fast.. and people would forget
> they're in copy mode (even if it said ***COPY*** somewhere :) and
end up
> copying the whole list into the thing :)
> 
> 	I've thought about tap-and-hold-to-copy or tap-and-hold-to-menu
> and hit Copy..
> 
> 		jeff
> 

As I was writing it down I realized there might be some drawbacks to
it, but thought I'd let it stay ...

By the time I was through writing I actually favored the second idea,
about using highlighting to mark in advance, then invoking copy/cut on
highlights...

But methinks you're already leaning (if not outright planning) in that
direction because of your comments on supporting "filter-like" custom
highlighting expressions... maybe, huh? maybe?  :)

Ken

From: Ken Latham clatham1@t...  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:34am
Subject: roll up "days unti due"?

Jeff,

Something just popped up in my mind the other day...
...and I didn't find much discussion in a search..

Would it be within your expectations of future use to allow a parent
to show the "closest 'days until due' value"  (least value of "days
until due" of children, even if that were negative).

The way I arrange things, with prejudice toward hierarchy, I find
myself "peeking" into lists just to decide what comes next.  If I had
a "most urgent" number on the parents it would save me some time.

Just a thought...

Ken

From: Bob Noe  <bnoe@c...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

Well in a way previous percentages/checked status is saved and available
when you do something really odd.  You can use Revert To Last (/R) and
occasionally do a Save Now (/S) to 'commit' your changes.  This has saved me
occasionally.  Maybe another gadget in the upper right with CFV that would
be a quick save button and indicate if changes had been made would make this
a more useful feature?  Maybe even free up a slot or two on the List menu if
those functions get moved?

Bob

From: <vjornes@y...>
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!


> --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Louis F. Caplan"
>
> > Judging from the e-mails that followed yours, I'm one of the rare
> folks who occaionsally hits the check when I shouldn't.
>
> You're not the only one.  I'm right handed but try to avoid dragging
> as I've hit the complete box one too many times!  (I use the button
> bar where practical instead and try to avoid big changes).
> It would be nice if the 'previous' percentages/ checked status was
> somehow hidden or temporarily stored so that one level of undo could
> be supported.

From: Bob Noe  <bnoe@c...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

Make that /U for Save Now... sorry.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Noe" <bnoe@c...>
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for
all!


> Well in a way previous percentages/checked status is saved and available
> when you do something really odd.  You can use Revert To Last (/R) and
> occasionally do a Save Now (/S) to 'commit' your changes.  This has saved
me
> occasionally.  Maybe another gadget in the upper right with CFV that would
> be a quick save button and indicate if changes had been made would make
this
> a more useful feature?  Maybe even free up a slot or two on the List menu
if
> those functions get moved?
>
> Bob

From: tes08558 sicora@e...  <sicora@e...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 0:39pm
Subject: What to we hate - desktop printing

I hope the desktop printing is revamped when you finally update that
program.  I hate the boxes with the due dates in them that print when
printing an outline.  These long boxes ruin the entire look of the
printed outline.

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:13pm
Subject: request: Quick priority change

Hi all,

brand new Shadow user, with a couple requests, spread over a 
number of messages:

- Quick priority change:

I'm using Shadow with a Palm keyboard and I'd like to change 
the priority of an item just by typing a number (1-5) when 
an item is selected. This could be a global preference that 
when switched on overrides the ascii-key-starts-a-new-item 
feature (which I love) for only the digit keys.

- Robert

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:27pm
Subject: request: Show tags in exported list in DT app

- Showing tags in exported lists: 

As I'm really a big fan of the tag feature of Shadow, I'd 
like the desktop app to (optionally) show the tags 
associated with an item. The list of tags could my shown at 
the bottom of the item, below the note, as a comma 
separated list, multiple tags per line.

- Robert

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:34pm
Subject: request: List-local tags

- List-local tags:

This is my main 'problem' right now. Imo, the tags system is 
one of the most important features of shadow, very 
powerful. I'd like to create many tags, for different 
purposes, like tags for my tasks (a set per project, now 
taking up a category), tags for personal organizing, tags 
for film categories, etc.  

Problem is that if I start using Shadow in all those ways, 
I'll start to pollute the global tag space more and more, 
I'll run out of tag categories, and managing tags (during 
the create and link process) may become a burden.

Solution: a set of tags local to the list. These tags are 
only visible to the associated list and are saved/loaded 
along with the other list data. Local tags are presented 
like all other tags, but only available through the added, 
built-in catergory 'local', meaning no changes in the
user interface.

I realise that this is a relatively 'heavy' request, but imo 
it would really add to the power of Shadow.

- Robert

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:34pm
Subject: Wow! Most emails ever!

We're 3/4 done the month, and have surpassed the highest number of
posts in shadow-discuss by a longshot already; past record was 777 posts
in Feb 2002, and we're up I think to 830 or so this month. Me and my big
mouth ;) Thats about 30 posts a day on average.

	Is everyones mailbox full yet? :)

	I wonder how many people just unsubscribed due to volume?

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Robert van der Kamp  <robnet@w...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:36pm
Subject: request: Delayed filtering

- Delayed filtering:

When filtering on unchecked items (but any filter will do), 
the moment I check an item it immediately disappears, 
because the filter rules are applied. Perfect.  

Problem is that this happens SO fast that I get confused by 
the quick screen redraw (I'm running OS5), even before I 
lift my pen off the screen, wondering if I maybe made a 
mistake, or didn't tap the checkbox at all.

Would it be possible to add a short timeout of a few hundred 
msecs before the item is filtered away. Ideally, I'd like 
to see the item get crossed out (confirming my action) and 
then disappear after a short delay.

- Robert

From: Justin Nelson  <justinn@e...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 1:43pm
Subject: Re: The Hack that I need

Now that would be wonderful!!

At 12:36 24/01/2003 +0000, Ken Stuart wrote:
>what would be most useful to me is - when I am using a different app -
>a popup that would allow me to enter a new item into Shadow, without starting
>up Shadow, and then return to the other app.

Justin Nelson (using a Palm M515 with OS v.4.1, JackFlash, DateBk5, 
ShadowPlan and a variety of system extension hacks)

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

There is the  "Revert to last" option. If one got into the habit of using
"Save now" ( \u ), then "Revert to last" ( \r ) would be an "undo" even for
drag and drop. I just thought for us lefties that maybe the preference for
a confirmation would be helpful.


                                                                                                                   
                    "vjornes                                                                                       
                    <vjornes@y...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    o.co.uk>"            cc:                                                                       
                    <vjornes             Subject:     [shadow-discuss] Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and   
                                         for all!                                                                  
                    01/23/2003                                                                                     
                    07:28 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, smasters@a... wrote:
>
> What about a preference for "confirm completion" that would be a pop-up
> message that would allow the cancellation of marking the item
complete? I
> don't have this problem very often, but it doesn't make sense to me
to make
> a one-tap mistake unrecoverable. Just a suggestion.

I fully agree that this one tap mistake is a real pain - happens to me
when I try to drag items - its too easy to miss/bounce and hit a
checkbox.  You know youve done 'something' you didnt mean to but dont
always know exactly what.

Rather than slow things down with an "are you really, really sure"
box, I'd prefer an undo ability (not for dragging etc. - too much work
as I understand) but just for the uncheck ability to restore children
to their previous state.


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:34pm
Subject: Re: request: Delayed filtering

Actually, I like this idea too. Aleays nice to know you checked the right
item, and with my T665 items disappear quickly also.




                                                                                                                   
                    Robert van                                                                                     
                    der Kamp             To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    <robnet@w...        cc:                                                                       
                    l>                   Subject:     [shadow-discuss] request: Delayed filtering                  
                                                                                                                   
                    01/24/2003                                                                                     
                    07:36 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




- Delayed filtering:

When filtering on unchecked items (but any filter will do),
the moment I check an item it immediately disappears,
because the filter rules are applied. Perfect.

Problem is that this happens SO fast that I get confused by
the quick screen redraw (I'm running OS5), even before I
lift my pen off the screen, wondering if I maybe made a
mistake, or didn't tap the checkbox at all.

Would it be possible to add a short timeout of a few hundred
msecs before the item is filtered away. Ideally, I'd like
to see the item get crossed out (confirming my action) and
then disappear after a short delay.

- Robert


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: xcivshawn sbuckley@r...  <sbuckley@r...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 2:39pm
Subject: Re: Tree lines

Actually, I'm using a low res screen as well (Palm Vx) - I've seen 
the tree lines in other apps, and they look quite nice - not taking 
up any more screen space.
Of course, this isn't critical - I thought it would be nice as an 
option "display treelines".

- Shawn

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Latham <clatham1@t...>" 
<clatham1@t...> wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, "xcivshawn <sbuckley@r...>"
> <sbuckley@r...> wrote:
> > I've searched the archive of this group, and haven't found 
anything 
> > similar, so here goes:
> > 
> > In Shadow DT, I really like the tree lines and the little +/- 
> > boxes.  I find it easier to visualize the relationship between 
> > parent and children.
> > 
> > Two Questions:
> > 
> > 1. Will there be a way to print outlines with tree lines from the
> DT?
> > 
> > 2. Is there any chance of providing this type of display (tree
> lines 
> > +/- icons) as an option in Shadow HH?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > Shawn
> 
> I suppose that *might* help visually.  For us "old timers" with
> low-res screens, anything that would take more room would be a bad
> thing.
> 
> Ken
> 
> Hmmm, not sure whether that's a vote "for" or "against"!

From: Griff  <lists@t...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:11pm
Subject: RE: request: Delayed filtering

Add a third to the list of supporters for this idea. 


>> Actually, I like this idea too. Aleays nice to know you checked the
right
>> item, and with my T665 items disappear quickly also.
> 
> 
> - Delayed filtering:
> 
> When filtering on unchecked items (but any filter will do),
> the moment I check an item it immediately disappears,
> because the filter rules are applied. Perfect.
> 
> Problem is that this happens SO fast that I get confused by
> the quick screen redraw (I'm running OS5), even before I
> lift my pen off the screen, wondering if I maybe made a
> mistake, or didn't tap the checkbox at all.
> 
> Would it be possible to add a short timeout of a few hundred
> msecs before the item is filtered away. Ideally, I'd like
> to see the item get crossed out (confirming my action) and
> then disappear after a short delay.
>

From: vjornes vjornes@y...  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:48pm
Subject: Re: Percents versus checkboxes.. once and for all!

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> There is the  "Revert to last" option. If one got into the habit of
using
> "Save now" ( \u ), then "Revert to last" ( \r ) would be an "undo"
even for
> drag and drop. 

Yep, that works :-)  I'd tried "revert to last" in the past with mixed
results, but it seems to work great for undoing accidental checking.
Thanks.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:33pm
Subject: Re: The Hack that I need

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003, Ken Stuart wrote:

> The "Shadow PopUp Hack" would allow me to create the new item without exiting
> Palmreader.   There are existing hacks that will allow me to do this for other
> apps, for example, I can enter a "Get loaf of bread" memo into the memopad
> database without leaving Palmreader - but I don't use memopad for tasks, and so
> I won't end up being reminded to get the loaf of bread (and I might not
> remember to copy the memopad item to Shadow, and that would add an extra chore
> anyway).

	Is there a hack to send a new item to the ToDo? If so, its only a
[[[fooo]]] away :)

		jeff

--
"Have you played Atari today?"

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>