From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> > And if anyone else has done this, what's the best font you've found? I
> > have awful eyes, so I've tried the Garamond 14 bold (as my normal
> > font) and it's not quite right. Any suggestions?
> 
> 	I just use the Palm built-in "large" font, which in high-res mode
> is tiny, but not goofily-tiny :) (ie: Palm OS size 12 in Font Bucket
> speak, or the large font if not using Font Bucket)

	Just because I love replying to myself today :)

	If you want to see the "small" font (Palm 9 point standard) in
high res, you can check the screenshots page:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots.html

	The top left screenshot is the small built in 9 point font being
used on the high density OS 5 Tungsten display.. *Tiny* :) Thats why I use
a little larger..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pfieldho_99  <pfieldho_99@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 11:26pm
Subject: Conduit suggestion

Jeff,
Is there anyway during sync to have the conduit automatically purge 
lists from ShadowPlan 160 that are no longer on the HH? I delete and 
change names of files often enough that I accumulate clutter there. 
Deleted files remain in the folder as well as the original list after 
a rename and then a sync. This clutter adds difficulty in opening up 
the right list, especially after a rename.

Paul

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 0:24am
Subject: RE: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res

Thanks Jeff, that worked really well.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 

	I just use the Palm built-in "large" font, which in high-res
mode
is tiny, but not goofily-tiny :) (ie: Palm OS size 12 in Font Bucket
speak, or the large font if not using Font Bucket)

		jeff

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 1:06am
Subject: Re: Conduit suggestion

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, pfieldho_99 wrote:

> Is there anyway during sync to have the conduit automatically purge
> lists from ShadowPlan 160 that are no longer on the HH? I delete and
> change names of files often enough that I accumulate clutter there.  
> Deleted files remain in the folder as well as the original list after
> a rename and then a sync. This clutter adds difficulty in opening up
> the right list, especially after a rename.

	I plan on addinf a feature where we have an "Archive" directory in
the ShadowPlan160, and move un-handhelded files there. The trick of course
is that some people use desktop-only files, so how to deal with them?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 1:16am
Subject: RE: Conduit suggestion

Can't you just make it so some sort of flag the conduit gives a file
during sync (when the file is deleted from the handheld) so the desktop
would only move that kind of file at startup? Just ignore the
desktop-only files completely.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 

	I plan on addinf a feature where we have an "Archive" directory
in
the ShadowPlan160, and move un-handhelded files there. The trick of
course
is that some people use desktop-only files, so how to deal with them?

		jeff

From: podemskir  <podemskir@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 4:27am
Subject: Simple Printing from the Desktop

Jeff,

I want to cast my vote again for simple printing functionality from 
the desktop.  I hate to bring up a competitor's product, but 
ThoughtManager has a nice printing function.  I am not a 
ThoughtManager fan because it is a very simple outliner and doesn't 
have all the other functions of Shadow, but at least the printing is 
straight forward. You can print a list with checkboxes or send a list
directly to WORD to include in a report.  

I would like Shadow to let me print my lists including the checked or 
blank checkboxes, etc.  Then I could refer to the printed 
list throughout the day when I am away from the desktop and don't
have the time or it would be awkward to scroll throught the list on 
the handheld.  As I go along throughout the day I can refer to and 
check off tasks as I work on them. At the end of the day I would 
transfer my new checked tasks to the desktop or handheld and sync.

Simple export to WORD would help when you need to include a list as
an outline in a report.

Thanks for keeping us "uncomplicated users" in mind.

Richard

From: Jim Schlichting  <jschlich@f...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 9:28am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 695 (On leave)

Hi,

I am out of the office today, but hope to return tomorrow.

Thanks.

  Jim

>>> "shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com" 11/06/02 04:24 >>>

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Shadow conduit hangs after fard reset
           From: "mhdickens" <mkdickens@a...>
      2. Re: Shadow conduit hangs after fard reset
           From: "mhdickens" <mkdickens@a...>
      3. Re: Re: OS5 highres for Tungsten and Sony NX. Want it?
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      4. Re: Shadow conduit hangs after fard reset
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      5. Re: Dated note taking?
           From: "Griff" <keith@t...>
      6. Handera
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      7. Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      8. Re: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res
           From: PocketGoddess <jen@p...>
      9. Re: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
     10. Re: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
     11. Conduit suggestion
           From: "pfieldho_99" <pfieldho_99@y...>
     12. RE: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res
           From: "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...>
     13. Re: Conduit suggestion
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
     14. RE: Conduit suggestion
           From: "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...>
     15. Simple Printing from the Desktop
           From: "podemskir" <podemskir@y...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:08:32 -0000
   From: "mhdickens" <mkdickens@a...>
Subject: Shadow conduit hangs after fard reset

Here's an interesting one.

I have a problem with my M105 in that when I change the batteries a 
hard reset ensues.

In the past everything has been recovered to my Palm.

The first time I went through this process with the new 2.6 conduit, 
the Conduit hung in the initial setup phase. The HH claimed to be 
syncing the To Do List.

I managed to recover using 2 Custom hotsyncs the first excluding 
Shadow and the second including ONLY Shadow.

Anyone any  ideas as to how to avoid this problem ?

Mark



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:10:51 -0000
   From: "mhdickens" <mkdickens@a...>
Subject: Re: Shadow conduit hangs after fard reset

Er ...  I of course meant "hard reset"

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "mhdickens" <mkdickens@a...> wrote:
> Here's an interesting one.
> 
> I have a problem with my M105 in that when I change the batteries a 
> hard reset ensues.
> 
> In the past everything has been recovered to my Palm.
> 
> The first time I went through this process with the new 2.6 
conduit, 
> the Conduit hung in the initial setup phase. The HH claimed to be 
> syncing the To Do List.
> 
> I managed to recover using 2 Custom hotsyncs the first excluding 
> Shadow and the second including ONLY Shadow.
> 
> Anyone any  ideas as to how to avoid this problem ?
> 
> Mark



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:13:58 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Re: OS5 highres for Tungsten and Sony NX. Want it?

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> >  http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow262a.zip

> Is this ONLY for the NX.. or can I try on on my OS4, NR70 with the
> same high res screen?

 Its the regular Shadow version, upped to alpha 2.6.2; it should
work identically on all non-OS5 units as 2.6.0 does. (ie: For you, it
offers high resolution as normal, but not yet virtual grafitti)

  jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 08:16:41 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Shadow conduit hangs after fard reset

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, mhdickens wrote:

> Here's an interesting one.
> I have a problem with my M105 in that when I change the batteries a 
> hard reset ensues.

 yeah, the new conduit seems to pause or hang during some hard
reset recoveries; it shoudln't be an issue.. next sync all is fine. I'm
not sure about details yet, but I expect it to be fixed in next update (in
a week or two or so hopefully). The issue is that on some Palm Desktops,
Shadow is being given a totally invalid set of data during hard reset
restorations, and the conduit gets hung thinking about it :/

> The first time I went through this process with the new 2.6 conduit, 
> the Conduit hung in the initial setup phase. The HH claimed to be 
> syncing the To Do List.
> 
> I managed to recover using 2 Custom hotsyncs the first excluding 
> Shadow and the second including ONLY Shadow.

 I think you just need to push hotsync again and it'll all work
second sync :/

 Fix coming.

> Anyone any  ideas as to how to avoid this problem ?

 It should be harmless (if a little odd).

  jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
   Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:49:14 -0000
   From: "Griff" <keith@t...>
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

I use the list view and like having the date on the left...the reason 
is it doesn't waste a line for one event.  Your method would require 
two lines for days with only one appointment. To me that's more 
wasteful than the 8 characters wasted now.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Michael Davidson wrote:
> 
> >  I'd liek it to show 1 whole week, including undated todos, 
all in
> a long scrolling list. ie: If one day take sup 10 lines, and trhe 
next is
> 3 lines, thats cool. Using grids like DB5 is prone to is very
> wasteful.. an empty day or day with 1 item take sup as much room as 
a day
> with 10 items, excep ttrh day with 10 items you probably can't see 
them
> all.
> 
>  It needs to be the lsit view, but better. Efficient. Its not 
quite
> right in any of the views :)
> 
>  (I know I know, being hard on DB5 is unpopular, but you gotta
> admit I'm right ;)
> 
> > > > Thing Dt
> > > > --------
> > > > Thing
> > > > Thing Dt
> > > 
> > >  This is generally a UI nono, snice you see thing, then thing, 
then
> > > the date. So you see the date *after* the items you read. 
Usualyl you're
> > 
> > The palm screen is so small that it's really not an issue. You 
see the
> > date and the things all at once, or you train yourself to look at 
the
> > date. 
> 
>  I don't see any screenshots of Action Names list view, but it 
is
> vastly superior. Sadly, its the onyl feature I need out of a 
dateboko app,
> so I want DB5 to have it or I can't switch to DB5 withotu slownig 
msyelf
> down and breaking my existing hapyp little process :)
> 
>  ie:
> 
>  o One column
>  o List view; scroll list up and down
>  o Not little same-sized panels for each day.. that makes it 
so you
> must scroll eachlittle panel to see whats on in a given day
>  o Undated todos must be visible in the list.. top or bottom
>  o Efficient sue of space; no wastnig a quarter of each line 
for
> dates.
> 
> > >  List view is here:
> > > http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-list.gif
> > >  It has the nasty waste I've mentioned..
> > 
> > It looks clean and uncluttered to me! I'm beginning to feel like 
you have
> > something strange against DB5... ;)
> 
>  Uncluttered? Do you see how every line has a date? thats 100%
> wasted space.. if those items all happen to be on the same day. 
Thats *bad
> design* in every textbook you'll find :) CESD doesn't usualyl make 
goofy
> mistakes, but thats one of them.. it has to be an option: If you 
tend to
> have one item per day, its good. Very very few of people have 1 
thign
> going on each day :)
> 
>  No, I'm 100% all for DB5, and I really resent Iambic for their
> stunts. But they got list views just right :) I'm a develoepr and
> perfectionisty as you know.. and I have to have it *right* :)
> 
>  As I've said before.. if DB5 had a good lsit view, I'd switch 
in a
> second :)  So far my onyl alternative is to build my own simpel 
list view,
> since I cannto mroally use Iambic stuff unless I frogive them, and 
I've
> not thought about that yet. ut I have hopes they learned their 
lesson :/
> 
>   jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 13:54:55 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Handera


 OKay, I've gotten 5 people twisting my arm the last 2 days. If
I've let Handera support slide too much, I apologize. I've got a lot of
other forces at work (including thousands of non-Handera users ;), so as
usual.. the grit in the wheel does haev some power ;)

 I'll see what I can do; I'm not going to tackle all of it.. ie:
I'm not sure how many people really care about landscape mode, and if its
work.. it has to wait. But I'll see what I can do about highres support
and whatnot.

 Handera folks are like Mac folks ;)

  jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:08:38 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res


 This is a mini release to get you early adopters of the Palm
Tungsten T or the Sony NX70 high resolution. I know I couldn't spend
another hour in low resolution mode ;)

 Get it from the front page of the http://www.codejedi.com site!

 Theres a few little gotchas, but I figured you couldn't wait any
longer.

  jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
   Date: Tue,  5 Nov 2002 14:13:54 -0500
   From: PocketGoddess <jen@p...>
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res

Quoting Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>:

> 
>  This is a mini release to get you early adopters of the Palm
> Tungsten T or the Sony NX70 high resolution. I know I couldn't spend
> another hour in low resolution mode ;)
> 
>  Get it from the front page of the http://www.codejedi.com site!
> 
>  Theres a few little gotchas, but I figured you couldn't wait any
> longer.

What are the gotchas?? I didn't see anything mentioned on the site.

And if anyone else has done this, what's the best font you've found? I have 
awful eyes, so I've tried the Garamond 14 bold (as my normal font) and it's
not 
quite right. Any suggestions?


Jen
--
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:24:50 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> >  This is a mini release to get you early adopters of the Palm
> > Tungsten T or the Sony NX70 high resolution. I know I couldn't spend
> > another hour in low resolution mode ;)
> > 
> >  Get it from the front page of the http://www.codejedi.com site!
> > 
> >  Theres a few little gotchas, but I figured you couldn't wait any
> > longer.
> 
> What are the gotchas?? I didn't see anything mentioned on the site.

 The only one I found was that when you're drag-and-dropping that
the items you drag over can get funny looking (low-rezified), until the
drag is complete. Its simply temporary aesthetics.

> And if anyone else has done this, what's the best font you've found? I
> have awful eyes, so I've tried the Garamond 14 bold (as my normal
> font) and it's not quite right. Any suggestions?

 I just use the Palm built-in "large" font, which in high-res mode
is tiny, but not goofily-tiny :) (ie: Palm OS size 12 in Font Bucket
speak, or the large font if not using Font Bucket)

  jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:33:58 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> > And if anyone else has done this, what's the best font you've found? I
> > have awful eyes, so I've tried the Garamond 14 bold (as my normal
> > font) and it's not quite right. Any suggestions?
> 
>  I just use the Palm built-in "large" font, which in high-res mode
> is tiny, but not goofily-tiny :) (ie: Palm OS size 12 in Font Bucket
> speak, or the large font if not using Font Bucket)

 Just because I love replying to myself today :)

 If you want to see the "small" font (Palm 9 point standard) in
high res, you can check the screenshots page:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots.html

 The top left screenshot is the small built in 9 point font being
used on the high density OS 5 Tungsten display.. *Tiny* :) Thats why I use
a little larger..

  jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
   Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 23:26:37 -0000
   From: "pfieldho_99" <pfieldho_99@y...>
Subject: Conduit suggestion

Jeff,
Is there anyway during sync to have the conduit automatically purge 
lists from ShadowPlan 160 that are no longer on the HH? I delete and 
change names of files often enough that I accumulate clutter there. 
Deleted files remain in the folder as well as the original list after 
a rename and then a sync. This clutter adds difficulty in opening up 
the right list, especially after a rename.

Paul



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 18:24:38 -0600
   From: "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...>
Subject: RE: Shadow 2.6.2 gone beta.. OS 5 high-res

Thanks Jeff, that worked really well.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 

 I just use the Palm built-in "large" font, which in high-res
mode
is tiny, but not goofily-tiny :) (ie: Palm OS size 12 in Font Bucket
speak, or the large font if not using Font Bucket)

  jeff




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 20:06:46 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Conduit suggestion

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, pfieldho_99 wrote:

> Is there anyway during sync to have the conduit automatically purge
> lists from ShadowPlan 160 that are no longer on the HH? I delete and
> change names of files often enough that I accumulate clutter there.  
> Deleted files remain in the folder as well as the original list after
> a rename and then a sync. This clutter adds difficulty in opening up
> the right list, especially after a rename.

 I plan on addinf a feature where we have an "Archive" directory in
the ShadowPlan160, and move un-handhelded files there. The trick of course
is that some people use desktop-only files, so how to deal with them?

  jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
   Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:16:16 -0600
   From: "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...>
Subject: RE: Conduit suggestion

Can't you just make it so some sort of flag the conduit gives a file
during sync (when the file is deleted from the handheld) so the desktop
would only move that kind of file at startup? Just ignore the
desktop-only files completely.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 

 I plan on addinf a feature where we have an "Archive" directory
in
the ShadowPlan160, and move un-handhelded files there. The trick of
course
is that some people use desktop-only files, so how to deal with them?

  jeff



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
   Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 04:27:54 -0000
   From: "podemskir" <podemskir@y...>
Subject: Simple Printing from the Desktop

Jeff,

I want to cast my vote again for simple printing functionality from 
the desktop.  I hate to bring up a competitor's product, but 
ThoughtManager has a nice printing function.  I am not a 
ThoughtManager fan because it is a very simple outliner and doesn't 
have all the other functions of Shadow, but at least the printing is 
straight forward. You can print a list with checkboxes or send a list
directly to WORD to include in a report.  

I would like Shadow to let me print my lists including the checked or 
blank checkboxes, etc.  Then I could refer to the printed 
list throughout the day when I am away from the desktop and don't
have the time or it would be awkward to scroll throught the list on 
the handheld.  As I go along throughout the day I can refer to and 
check off tasks as I work on them. At the end of the day I would 
transfer my new checked tasks to the desktop or handheld and sync.

Simple export to WORD would help when you need to include a list as
an outline in a report.

Thanks for keeping us "uncomplicated users" in mind.

Richard




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 1:06pm
Subject: Re: Simple Printing from the Desktop

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, podemskir wrote:

> I want to cast my vote again for simple printing functionality from
> the desktop.  I hate to bring up a competitor's product, but
> ThoughtManager has a nice printing function.  I am not a
> ThoughtManager fan because it is a very simple outliner and doesn't
> have all the other functions of Shadow, but at least the printing is
> straight forward. You can print a list with checkboxes or send a list
> directly to WORD to include in a report.

	For sure; once we get the Mac side to beta or release, we'll be
focusing on desktop feature growth (all platforms) for awhile; some
options for printing is large on my list.

> I would like Shadow to let me print my lists including the checked or
> blank checkboxes, etc.  Then I could refer to the printed list
> throughout the day when I am away from the desktop and don't have the
> time or it would be awkward to scroll throught the list on the
> handheld.  As I go along throughout the day I can refer to and check
> off tasks as I work on them. At the end of the day I would transfer my
> new checked tasks to the desktop or handheld and sync.
> 
> Simple export to WORD would help when you need to include a list as an
> outline in a report.

	You can do rudimentary exports now; a save-as HTML lets you view
or print from your browser or read into Word. Save-as TXT is a "titles
only" export so useful in some situations, and easily read into Word.

> Thanks for keeping us "uncomplicated users" in mind.

	you keep bringing up yourneeds so I know what will hel pyou, and
I'll keep delivering :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 695 (On leave)

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Jim Schlichting wrote:

> I am out of the office today, but hope to return tomorrow.

	Please, if you are going somewhere, do not set up an auto-reply on
accounts that receive mailing lists, or at least disable your mailing
lists if you do. Its sort of a pain, but its also a pain for me to go
suspending you when you spam everyone with duplicates ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 8:38pm
Subject: Handera screenshot btw

In case anyone is curious:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/handera263.PNG

	Just a junk file of random typing, so we can see how much text you
can cram on there.

	If you want to test it (we need lots of testers! :), join
shadow-test and check the archives (a alpha was just posted a little while
ago).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Orion Protonentis  <lists@n...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 8:59pm
Subject: Re: Handera screenshot btw

I wasn't one of those twisting your arm for HandEra support, but am 
nonetheless appreciative... on my way to start testing...

Thanks!

-- 
Orion Protonentis <lists@n...>

From: quantum_sequoia  <sdwinter@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 2:48am
Subject: Managing Tags

In trying to move a handful of separate Shadow lists into one larger 
list (with each item having numerous tags for eventual filtering), I 
find it takes a fair amount of time to individually add each tag to 
each item. If I'm bringing in 200 items and each can have an average 
of 5 tags, then that's 1000 different assignments I need to make. 
Maybe there is a better way to do this. What about, in addition to 
the current "Add Tag" method, using a more 2 dimensional method of 
managing tags? Have a screen that looks like this:

    Tag #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 <>
Item
Item 1   X  X  X  X
Item 2   X     X     X
Item 3      X  X
Item 4      X     X  X
Item 5         X

The row of tags could be scrolled sideways within a given tag 
category. The column of items could be scrolled up and down based on 
the current filtered list. The center section would move up & down or 
back & forth with the top row or left column. Tapping the 
intersection of an item and a tag would put assign that tag to that 
item. An X would appear to denote the assignment. Tapping a displayed 
X would remove the link between the tag and the item. Using such an 
interface would make it easier to set multiple tags for a given item 
or assign one or more tags to multiple items.

Comments? Is this even feasible?

Thanks!

From: Steven Whatley  <swhatley@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:23am
Subject: Keyboard Friendly but ...

Hi all,

Last week I got a Palm Portable Keyboard for my HandEra 330.  I was quite 
surprised to see how keyboard friendly Shadow Plan is.  

<space> = demote
<backspace> = promote
<left arror> = collapse current level
<right arrot> = Expand current item
Cmd A = View note
...

The only one I can't get to work from the keyboard is:

Cmd <space> = Toggle checkbox

The graffiti strokes work but not the keyboard equivalent.

The keyboard sequence brings up the on-screen keyboard.  Is there any way
to prevent the OS from bringing up this keyboard and allow the sequence to
go to Shadow?

Thanks,
Steven

From: clifton_cc  <cclifton@a...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 5:00am
Subject: Re: OS5 highres for Tungsten and Sony NX. Want it?

I'm a bit leary about toggling the checkbox with the center button. 
Most of my filters screen out the checked items.  My concern is that
if I accidentally toggle while navigating, then I have to change to a
different filter, find the item again, and uncheck it.

I would vote for center button expands link menu so I can navigate to
linked items.

-- Curt

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
> 	However, with the above scheme, we have the center button
> entirely
> unused. I thought we could use it to toggle collapse maybe, or toggle
> checkbox, or somesuch..
> 
> Toggle checkbox, since expand/collapse work with left and right!
> 
> Jen
> 
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: pfieldho_99  <pfieldho_99@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 6:11am
Subject: Still have that bad syncing feeling

I am still unable to select any different custom sync settings other 
than the defaults on my work computer - Win2k. I think this is due to 
my work's security measures and requirements for administrator 
priviliges to accomplish some tasks. Today I tried to convert a PDF 
file using the Adobe Reader Palm Desktop tool and my computer gave me 
a message saying that that task required administrator priviliges. 

Other then that I'm loving the new conduit in terms of NO occurences 
of doubled items in my lists and I do have all the other capabilities 
on my home computer.

I'm likeing the new capabilities of the desktop as well ... but give 
us something new and many of us get ideas for more, don't we? Would 
it be possible, and practical, to add the capability of some keyboard 
shortcuts to initiate some tasks? Especially new item, new child. 
This would enhance what you've already done to make list development 
easier through the desktop interface.

I have some other thoughts/suggestions/and buggy items in addition to 
the above but I kind of hold to the approach of dribbling one or two 
things out at a time and see if they resonate with other shadow-
discuss group members.

Paul

From: C. Ward Yelverton  <ward@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 2:34pm
Subject: RE: Simple Printing from the Desktop

Jeff-
Just for the record on the issue of printing:  I'm about to have to
abandon Shadow due to the lack of print ability from the Palm.  I
evaluated Shadow for preparing drafts of specifications and other
engineering documents while in the field, and the main use for test and
inspection check lists and recording comments during start-up
commissioning of drawbridges (my specialty).  

SP does a perfect job for me until I get ready to leave the meeting or
job site when I MUST leave a copy, especially of a inspection Punch
List, for the contractor to correct.  It can't wait several days until I
return to my office and can cut/paste or whatever into word; and I don't
carry a laptop with me (that's the reason for the PDA).

I carry both a IR linked hp-dj340 printer and a mini SiPix Pocket
Printer AT in my field kit so am ready to print.  I'm not concerned much
about formatting as long as it's legible and the outline order is
maintained (I usually use "legal" numbering so don't even need
indenting), but I must be able to share the results with the contractor
and other participants in the meeting (and no, most of them do not use
PDA's and beaming to other installations of Shadow is not a option.
Contract requirements insist on hard copy reports).

The necessity to share work with others is so primary to almost
everything I do (except my contact list and calendar) that I was
surprised how little support printing gets in both Shadow and most other
outliners.  Must be a lot of very non-communicative PDA users in the
world.  Anyway, it appears that I'm in the vast minority of SP users so
understand why my needs don't get up very high on your to-do list ... or
is it that the majority of folks who need printed output just don't
consider or use Shadow?  A wonderment.

	Ward Y...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:07 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Simple Printing from the Desktop

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, podemskir wrote:

> I want to cast my vote again for simple printing functionality from
> the desktop.  I hate to bring up a competitor's product, but
> ThoughtManager has a nice printing function.  I am not a
> ThoughtManager fan because it is a very simple outliner and doesn't
> have all the other functions of Shadow, but at least the printing is
> straight forward. You can print a list with checkboxes or send a list
> directly to WORD to include in a report.

	For sure; once we get the Mac side to beta or release, we'll be
focusing on desktop feature growth (all platforms) for awhile; some
options for printing is large on my list.

> I would like Shadow to let me print my lists including the checked or
> blank checkboxes, etc.  Then I could refer to the printed list
> throughout the day when I am away from the desktop and don't have the
> time or it would be awkward to scroll throught the list on the
> handheld.  As I go along throughout the day I can refer to and check
> off tasks as I work on them. At the end of the day I would transfer my
> new checked tasks to the desktop or handheld and sync.
> 
> Simple export to WORD would help when you need to include a list as an
> outline in a report.

	You can do rudimentary exports now; a save-as HTML lets you view
or print from your browser or read into Word. Save-as TXT is a "titles
only" export so useful in some situations, and easily read into Word.

> Thanks for keeping us "uncomplicated users" in mind.

	you keep bringing up yourneeds so I know what will hel pyou, and
I'll keep delivering :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 3:37pm
Subject: Re: Managing Tags

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, quantum_sequoia wrote:

> In trying to move a handful of separate Shadow lists into one larger
> list (with each item having numerous tags for eventual filtering), I
> find it takes a fair amount of time to individually add each tag to
> each item. If I'm bringing in 200 items and each can have an average
> of 5 tags, then that's 1000 different assignments I need to make.  
> Maybe there is a better way to do this. What about, in addition to the
> current "Add Tag" method, using a more 2 dimensional method of
> managing tags? Have a screen that looks like this:

	An interesting idea, but I woudl rather come at things from
analyzing the root needs and causes; ie: Your real need is to assign 1000
tags (damn, 5 tags on *every* item?! :), so perhaps instead of defining a
keen but comlpex and all new interface, you really just need a fast way fo
mass-tagging? ie: "Assign this tag to all items in this sublevel", that
sort of thing. PErhaps a simple coupel of taps to do a mass assign would
be mroe efficient use of resources?

>     Tag #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 <>
> Item
> Item 1   X  X  X  X
> Item 2   X     X     X
> Item 3      X  X
> Item 4      X     X  X
> Item 5         X

	Keen idea though. I bet you've used some now defunct desktop
outliners ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard Friendly but ...

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Steven Whatley wrote:

> The only one I can't get to work from the keyboard is:
> Cmd <space> = Toggle checkbox
> 
> The graffiti strokes work but not the keyboard equivalent.
> 
> The keyboard sequence brings up the on-screen keyboard.  Is there any way
> to prevent the OS from bringing up this keyboard and allow the sequence to
> go to Shadow?

	Is there anything you can configure in your keyboard driver
application?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 3:48pm
Subject: Re: Still have that bad syncing feeling

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, pfieldho_99 wrote:

> I am still unable to select any different custom sync settings other
> than the defaults on my work computer - Win2k. I think this is due to

	The defaults are likely what you need anyway ;)

	What happens? You hit Custom -> Shadow -> Change in Hotsync
Manager, and the Shadow conduit dialog comes up:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-current/manual/images-dt/hscustom.jpg

	If you change the values, and come back, has anythign changed?

	Are you using "set as default" or no?

> my work's security measures and requirements for administrator
> priviliges to accomplish some tasks. Today I tried to convert a PDF
> file using the Adobe Reader Palm Desktop tool and my computer gave me
> a message saying that that task required administrator priviliges.

	That is strange.

> Other then that I'm loving the new conduit in terms of NO occurences
> of doubled items in my lists and I do have all the other capabilities
> on my home computer.
> 
> I'm likeing the new capabilities of the desktop as well ... but give
> us something new and many of us get ideas for more, don't we? Would it
> be possible, and practical, to add the capability of some keyboard
> shortcuts to initiate some tasks? Especially new item, new child.  
> This would enhance what you've already done to make list development
> easier through the desktop interface.

	You can use Ctrl-N and Ctrl-M for new item and new child, thuogh I
may change those (which is why they're undocumented right now ;)

> I have some other thoughts/suggestions/and buggy items in addition to
> the above but I kind of hold to the approach of dribbling one or two
> things out at a time and see if they resonate with other shadow-
> discuss group members.

	Bring 'em on ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: rcm_ox  <rcm_ox@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 3:50pm
Subject: Shadow on windows

Is there a way of running the windows shadow plan component alone? I 
only have a hotsync cradle on my home PC but would find shadow for 
windows useful in the office.
Thanks,
Roy

From: swhatley@h...
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard Friendly but ...

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:38:16 -0500 (EST)
 Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Steven Whatley wrote:
>
>> The only one I can't get to work from the keyboard is:
>> Cmd <space> = Toggle checkbox
>> 
>> The graffiti strokes work but not the keyboard equivalent.
>> 
>> The keyboard sequence brings up the on-screen keyboard.  Is there any way
>> to prevent the OS from bringing up this keyboard and allow the sequence to
>> go to Shadow?
>
>	Is there anything you can configure in your keyboard driver
>application?

Not that I can see.  I will geve a new version of the driver a try.

Thanks,
Steven

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:35pm
Subject: RE: Simple Printing from the Desktop

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, C. Ward Yelverton wrote:

> Just for the record on the issue of printing:  I'm about to have to
> abandon Shadow due to the lack of print ability from the Palm.  I
> evaluated Shadow for preparing drafts of specifications and other
> engineering documents while in the field, and the main use for test
> and inspection check lists and recording comments during start-up
> commissioning of drawbridges (my specialty).

	Cool (the drawbridges part, not the leaving shadow part :)

	Ever use Exporting to achieve printing?

> SP does a perfect job for me until I get ready to leave the meeting or
> job site when I MUST leave a copy, especially of a inspection Punch
> List, for the contractor to correct.  It can't wait several days until
> I return to my office and can cut/paste or whatever into word; and I
> don't carry a laptop with me (that's the reason for the PDA).

	Very few people need printing from the PDA directly; as such it
must be low on my priority list. Few people have an IR or bluetooth
printer around. I get 1 message every 4 or 6 months asking for printing
from the PDA, while I get 50 a day for other things. (This however I
expect to grow over the next while, as we push more and more into business
amrkets, and ask the business markets get mroe into wireless)

	Of course, you can always export to memo or DOC and print from
those.. theres dozens of appliactions which can print to IR from those
formats. Thats always been the avenue I've pursued for printing, due to
the limited audience.

> maintained (I usually use "legal" numbering so don't even need
> indenting), but I must be able to share the results with the
> contractor and other participants in the meeting (and no, most of them
> do not use PDA's and beaming to other installations of Shadow is not a
> option. Contract requirements insist on hard copy reports).

	Sounds like a cool system you've got going. Thats one portable
office you've got!

> The necessity to share work with others is so primary to almost
> everything I do (except my contact list and calendar) that I was
> surprised how little support printing gets in both Shadow and most
> other outliners.  Must be a lot of very non-communicative PDA users in
> the world.  Anyway, it appears that I'm in the vast minority of SP
> users so understand why my needs don't get up very high on your to-do
> list ... or is it that the majority of folks who need printed output
> just don't consider or use Shadow?  A wonderment.

	PDAs are about mobility, and very few people have a printer where
they are, or on the road. As such, PDA people who print is a very small
minority of PDA users in general (from statistics, not guesses). 99% of
PDA owners will print from the desktop application. However, what is
interesting is it is a changing trend.. as more and more IR and bluetooth
devices get out there, peripherals are starting to catch up. Bluetooth
hard drives for remote data stores, phones that can IR print, etc. Most of
this is going on in Europe, but is coming over to the US and Canada slowly
these days..

	So I think things will change over the next year or two, and I do
intend on looking into PrintBoy and other toolkits in awhile, once OS5
settles down (who knows what printing options will be available for OS5 in
a while). I do have a growing segment of print folks, and I do not intend
on letting them hang.

	Hope the exporting can help you out. If you need a better export
format, let me know and I can work on that.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:36pm
Subject: Re: Shadow on windows

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, rcm_ox wrote:

> Is there a way of running the windows shadow plan component alone? I 
> only have a hotsync cradle on my home PC but would find shadow for 
> windows useful in the office.

	How would you move the files back and forth? floppies?

	BTW, you can install Shadow Desktop if Palm Desktop has been
installed. So just download and install Palm Desktop, then install Shadow
Desktop, and you'll be fine, without a PDA.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kelly  <kkfitchmun@e...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:47pm
Subject: "Un-expand" links?

I¹ve searched for an answer in the manual and in the archives to no avail,
so I¹m turning to you folks for help.

For kicks, I¹ve been playing with the Links and Tags features (very cool),
and I selected ³Expand Links² from the pop-up menu. Great, I see the
possibilities... However, now I want to get rid of the extra two lines that
it¹s taking up on my screen. I don¹t see any obvious way of doing this in
the Links Manager. What am I missing?

TIA

Kelly Kim 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 5:30pm
Subject: Re: "Un-expand" links?

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kelly wrote:

> I¹ve searched for an answer in the manual and in the archives to no avail,
> so I¹m turning to you folks for help.
> 
> For kicks, I¹ve been playing with the Links and Tags features (very
> cool), and I selected ³Expand Links² from the pop-up menu. Great, I
> see the possibilities... However, now I want to get rid of the extra
> two lines that it¹s taking up on my screen. I don¹t see any obvious
> way of doing this in the Links Manager. What am I missing?

	Expand Links and Collapse Links are only available from the List
View screen, link arrow. The link arrow shows up on the right hand side
like this "->", but only if you've not turned it off. (A custom View lets
you not include the link arrow, but all the built in views have it).

	Tap on the link arrow to see either Expand Links or Collapse
Links, depending.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kelly  <kkfitchmun@e...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 6:11pm
Subject: Re: "Un-expand" links?

Thanks, Jeff. I was tapping the link arrow below the item (i.e., next to the
expanded links). Doh! Silly me...

Kelly

on 11/7/02 9:30 AM, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kelly wrote:
[snip]
>> I selected ³Expand Links² from the pop-up menu. Great, I
>> see the possibilities... However, now I want to get rid of the extra
>> two lines that it¹s taking up on my screen. I don¹t see any obvious
>> way of doing this in the Links Manager. What am I missing?
> 
> Expand Links and Collapse Links are only available from the List
> View screen, link arrow. The link arrow shows up on the right hand side
> like this "->", but only if you've not turned it off. (A custom View lets
> you not include the link arrow, but all the built in views have it).
> 
> Tap on the link arrow to see either Expand Links or Collapse
> Links, depending.
> 
> jeff
>

From: rcm_ox  <rcm_ox@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 7:52pm
Subject: Re: Shadow on windows

Thanks Jeff! Some of the tasks in the office wouldn't need the 
handheld and I don't want to get another outline/ list manager. If I 
do need to transfer files between the office and home, I have yahoo 
breifcase setup.



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, rcm_ox wrote:
> 
> > Is there a way of running the windows shadow plan component 
alone? I 
> > only have a hotsync cradle on my home PC but would find shadow 
for 
> > windows useful in the office.
> 
> 	How would you move the files back and forth? floppies?
> 
> 	BTW, you can install Shadow Desktop if Palm Desktop has been
> installed. So just download and install Palm Desktop, then install 
Shadow
> Desktop, and you'll be fine, without a PDA.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: C. Ward Yelverton  <ward@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 8:43pm
Subject: RE: Simple Printing from the Desktop

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>	Cool (the drawbridges part, not the leaving shadow part :)
>	Ever use Exporting to achieve printing?

Hanging head, I hadn't found the "Export" function in the PDA.  Now that
I've dug it out, I will experiment.  Exporting to pEdit if the proper
data goes over is an acceptable solution.  If I just RTFM, maybe I can
stay in the Shadow after all ... 

>	Very few people need printing from the PDA directly; as such it
>	must be low on my priority list. Few people have an IR or
bluetooth
>	printer around. 

This is what I find surprising ... that so many people are entering data
for their own enjoyment (?) without any need to share this data with
others.  My own experience, both DT and PDA, is the exact opposite.  I
seem to always have to print or fax.

	Ward Y...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 8:57pm
Subject: Re: "Un-expand" links?

Speaking of which, I'd love an option to toggle this for a whole list (Collapse/Expand all links)  Just thot I'd throw that out incase you were bord ;)


>like this "->", but only if you've not turned it off. (A custom View lets
>you not include the link arrow, but all the built in views have it).
>
>	Tap on the link arrow to see either Expand Links or Collapse
>Links, depending.
>
>		jeff


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From: bombrsx4me  <bombrsx4me@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 0:19am
Subject: printboy

Will we see printboy integration?

thanks

From: Stephen Lang  <madmaxmedia@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 0:42am
Subject: Re: Simple Printing from the Desktop

The xslt files for direct viewing of the XML files are very good, 
you may be able to customize it to your printing needs.

I don't need to create checkboxes and such, so haven't tried.

Thanks, Steve

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:48am
Subject: Re: "Un-expand" links?

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

> Speaking of which, I'd love an option to toggle this for a whole list
> (Collapse/Expand all links)  Just thot I'd throw that out incase you
> were bord ;)

	Menus are full ;)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:49am
Subject: RE: Simple Printing from the Desktop

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, C. Ward Yelverton wrote:

> >	Very few people need printing from the PDA directly; as such it
> >	must be low on my priority list. Few people have an IR or
> bluetooth
> >	printer around. 
> 
> This is what I find surprising ... that so many people are entering
> data for their own enjoyment (?) without any need to share this data
> with others.  My own experience, both DT and PDA, is the exact
> opposite.  I seem to always have to print or fax.

	PDA's are generally personal; but when data sharing is needed it
usually is done through the desktop (email, etc).

	Can you get a bluetooth interface for printers I wonder?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:50am
Subject: Re: printboy

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, bombrsx4me wrote:

> Will we see printboy integration?

	Eventually; its not high on my priorities because it is mentioned
very little by anyone. Perhaps I should make a poll??

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Tom Allebrandi  <tom@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 2:00am
Subject: RE: Shadow on windows

Jeff said
> BTW, you can install Shadow Desktop if Palm Desktop has
> been  installed. So just download and install Palm Desktop,
> then install Shadow  Desktop, and you'll be fine, without a PDA.

I did that, but when I go to delete an item it says that it won't be deleted
until the next HotSync. In this configuration, I'll never do a HotSync, so
how do I make the deleted item go away?

Shadow Desktop 1.2.5

--- tom
tom allebrandi
tom@y...

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 2:18am
Subject: RE: Shadow on windows

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Tom Allebrandi wrote:

> > BTW, you can install Shadow Desktop if Palm Desktop has
> > been  installed. So just download and install Palm Desktop,
> > then install Shadow  Desktop, and you'll be fine, without a PDA.
> 
> I did that, but when I go to delete an item it says that it won't be deleted
> until the next HotSync. In this configuration, I'll never do a HotSync, so
> how do I make the deleted item go away?
> 
> Shadow Desktop 1.2.5

	Ahh, quite. I'll add a "force purge" to the Expert or List menu,
then?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 3:44am
Subject: Re: printboy

Quoting Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>:

> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, bombrsx4me wrote:
> 
> > Will we see printboy integration?
> 
> 	Eventually; its not high on my priorities because it is mentioned
> very little by anyone. Perhaps I should make a poll??
> 

Please do. I would LOVE to see PrintBoy support. I am trying hard to break free 
of the laptop chains that bind me, and being able to print Shadow would sure 
help.


Jen
--
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:00am
Subject: Re: printboy

would also LOVE it if you had print support through Printboy for the Palm, as i generally use it compared to the desktop portion!
kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: PocketGoddess 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] printboy


  Quoting Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>:

  > On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, bombrsx4me wrote:
  > 
  > > Will we see printboy integration?
  > 
  >       Eventually; its not high on my priorities because it is mentioned
  > very little by anyone. Perhaps I should make a poll??
  > 

  Please do. I would LOVE to see PrintBoy support. I am trying hard to break free 
  of the laptop chains that bind me, and being able to print Shadow would sure 
  help.


  Jen
  --
  http://www.pocketgoddess.com
  98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:18am
Subject: New poll for shadow-discuss

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
shadow-discuss group:

Do you want to print from your handheld?
We're talking printing via infrared or
perhaps bluetooth.. not via your desktop
(whih you can do through Shadow Desktop). 

  o If I could, I'd be printing from Shadow handheld right now! 
  o I intend on buying and using Printboy (or similar) very soon (the next few months) 
  o I probably wouldn't ever print from my handheld (use desktop to do so, or I just don't print!) 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/surveys?id=999741  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:19am
Subject: Re: printboy

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> would also LOVE it if you had print support through Printboy for the
> Palm, as i generally use it compared to the desktop portion!

	IR printer in the office?

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 5:01am
Subject: Re: printboy

hmmm, yes i believe.  do i just need something like printboy to do that?  do you need to do anything special to shadowplan?  curious, as i never thought about it until the discussion today, and now want to know how simple this could actually be...
thanks for any additional info you can provide.
kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] printboy


  On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

  > would also LOVE it if you had print support through Printboy for the
  > Palm, as i generally use it compared to the desktop portion!

        IR printer in the office?

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: jonaz  <jonaz.list@d...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 11:32am
Subject: Re: "Un-expand" links?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Anthony Schellenberg <aschell@p...> wrote:
> Speaking of which, I'd love an option to toggle this for a whole list 
(Collapse/Expand all links)  Just thot I'd throw that out incase you were bord 
;)

Ah yes, that would be wonderful. I usually end up with a looong list with 
expanded links after reviewing all projects and checking their tags. Would be 
great not having to manually collapse them all afterwards.

/jonaz

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:08pm
Subject: Re: printboy

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> hmmm, yes i believe.  do i just need something like printboy to do
> that?  do you need to do anything special to shadowplan?  curious, as
> i never thought about it until the discussion today, and now want to
> know how simple this could actually be...

	The developer has to build a print system, so its a lot of work.

	(And due to how infrequently I've been asked about it, I've always
said so far to just do a DOC export and print the DOC :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: "Un-expand" links?

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, jonaz wrote:

> > Speaking of which, I'd love an option to toggle this for a whole list 
> (Collapse/Expand all links)  Just thot I'd throw that out incase you were bord 
> ;)
> 
> Ah yes, that would be wonderful. I usually end up with a looong list with 
> expanded links after reviewing all projects and checking their tags. Would be 
> great not having to manually collapse them all afterwards.

	Damn, I really need to create a hierarchical pulldown menu
system. We just don't have enough menu space :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pfieldho_99  <pfieldho_99@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 2:26pm
Subject: Re: Still have that bad syncing feeling

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, pfieldho_99 wrote:
> 
> > I am still unable to select any different custom sync settings 
other
> > than the defaults on my work computer - Win2k. I think this is 
due to
> 
> 	The defaults are likely what you need anyway ;)

Yes, fortunately the defaults are what I would use more than 90% of 
the time anyway.

> 
> 	What happens? You hit Custom -> Shadow -> Change in Hotsync
> Manager, and the Shadow conduit dialog comes up:
> 
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-current/manual/images-
dt/hscustom.jpg

Yes, I get to this window no problem.
> 
> 	If you change the values, and come back, has anythign changed?
> 

No, when I come back the selections have reverted to the defaults.

> 	Are you using "set as default" or no?
> 

I've tried it both ways to no avail. Also Ive tried "locking" a 
setting different than the defaults by checking "set as default" but 
the settings will revert to the defaults and the checkbox will have 
cleared itself, even though I left it checked.

> > Would it be possible, and practical, to add the capability of 
some keyboard
> > shortcuts to initiate some tasks? Especially new item, new 
child.  
> 
> 	You can use Ctrl-N and Ctrl-M for new item and new child, 
thuogh I
> may change those (which is why they're undocumented right now ;)
> 
I'll try those out AND at the same time I'll be half expecting a 
change. Thanks

Paul

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Still have that bad syncing feeling

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, pfieldho_99 wrote:

> I've tried it both ways to no avail. Also Ive tried "locking" a
> setting different than the defaults by checking "set as default" but
> the settings will revert to the defaults and the checkbox will have
> cleared itself, even though I left it checked.

	That is correct behaviour; when you check "set as default" and
then hit OK, the settings become the default. Next time you open it up,
you are now defining either new temporary settings, unless you check them
to be set as default.

	Do a fresh sync so everything is all clear and the current temp
settings are all used up, and then go into it, set it up differently, set
as default and hit OK, then go back in, and the checkbox shuold be
cleared, however the values shuold be the same.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Guess  <tcatnat@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:34pm
Subject: Uninstall

I installed the desktop application and cannot uninstall. How do I do 
this? I keep getting could not load error message. I used the 2.6 
setup exe on Windows 2000.

Thanks.

From: C. Ward Yelverton  <ward@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 5:06pm
Subject: RE: printboy

FWIW, I'm using PalmPrint ... it has done such a good job for me that I
haven't looked at Printboy.  But I suspect they both do about the same
job and if you support one you support the other.

I fully support using such a print utility and you concentrate on SP's
unique abilities.  For you to go into the print system business would be
ridiculous ... not to mention the eternal task of chasing new printers
and hardware.

	Ward Y...


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 

	The developer has to build a print system, so its a lot of work.

	(And due to how infrequently I've been asked about it, I've
always
said so far to just do a DOC export and print the DOC :)

		jeff




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: C. Ward Yelverton  <ward@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 5:06pm
Subject: RE: printboy

Personally, if I'm in the office I would prefer to hotsync and print
from the pc, either from SP-DT or export to a text or word editor for
better formatting.  Don't ever expect SP-PDA to have full print
formatting capability.

Can't really figure out why would ever want IR link in office.  For
laptop, prefer wireless LAN connection for much faster 2-way (in future,
probably Bluetooth).

My IR is all for field use where the PDA is on it's own.  SiPix mini
printer is especially great because of it's tiny size.  Yep, not for
fast, full page size, or high production ... but perfect for the "get
by" pass out temp hard copy until I can get back to the office and get
the document(s) properly formatted.

In my professional life the PDA is a field data acquisition and
reference tool that I can use to present a checklist to be checked,
dated, and remarked; and to enter field notes and report text to be
edited and formatted once I return to the office.  Of course the PDA
also serves as a portable reference to my contacts and calendar, but
that's a separate issue and not involved with the need for printing.

When engineer's take paper notes on pads or in field notebooks, they can
photocopy those manuscript notes and leave them for reference by others
(no matter how crude and incomplete they are).  I have the same need to
leave a hard copy of my PDA work-in-process ... or I have to go back to
paper and pencil.

	Ward Y...

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:20 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] printboy

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> would also LOVE it if you had print support through Printboy for the
> Palm, as i generally use it compared to the desktop portion!

	IR printer in the office?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 5:12pm
Subject: RE: printboy

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, C. Ward Yelverton wrote:

> FWIW, I'm using PalmPrint ... it has done such a good job for me that I
> haven't looked at Printboy.  But I suspect they both do about the same
> job and if you support one you support the other.
> 
> I fully support using such a print utility and you concentrate on SP's
> unique abilities.  For you to go into the print system business would be
> ridiculous ... not to mention the eternal task of chasing new printers
> and hardware.

	No, I mean.. each developer ahs to build a lot of code to
interface to PrintBoy or PalmPrint or the other systems; they dont'
magicly know how to read Sahdow files, nor format them for printnig, and
Shadow can't magicly know how to talk to these print solutions or provide
intrerfaces for pritn options etc. So adding print support to a Palm
applciations is quite an extensive undertaking..

	(without even thinking about writing a new print system, which
would be suicide :)

		jeff

> 
> 	Ward Y...
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> 
> 	The developer has to build a print system, so its a lot of work.
> 
> 	(And due to how infrequently I've been asked about it, I've
> always
> said so far to just do a DOC export and print the DOC :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 5:14pm
Subject: Re: Uninstall

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Guess wrote:

> I installed the desktop application and cannot uninstall. How do I do 
> this? I keep getting could not load error message. I used the 2.6 
> setup exe on Windows 2000.

	You mean you cannot find the uninstaller, or cannot operate it for
some reason?

	ie: It should be in Add/Remove programs as soemthign to do with
Codejedi.

	If it fails, you can always just delete all the files where you
had it install them, and remove ShadowPlan2.dll (do a file find for it ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Tom Allebrandi  <tom@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 6:32pm
Subject: RE: Shadow on windows

>> I did that, but when I go to delete an
>> item it says that it won't be deleted
>> until the next HotSync. In this configuration,
>> I'll never do a HotSync, so how do I make the
>> deleted item go away?
>
> Ahh, quite. I'll add a "force purge" to the Expert
> or List menu, then?

Jeff -

That would be helpful. Thanks!

--- tom
Tom Allebrandi
tom@y...

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 7:07pm
Subject: Re: printboy

as you said, that is your personal preference for your use...
for me, when I am not at or near my desktop that has the desktop version, I would love the ability to be able to print to another printer, or to just print instead of having to go startup and run my desktop program.  many times I just want a hard copy of what I have to jot notes on or work at changes from a larger view, and thus printing from the pda would allow that.  since many are beginning to use shadowplan as their ONE all inclusive planner, printing from it would seem to be the next step!  my thoughts.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: C. Ward Yelverton 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:06 AM
  Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] printboy


  Personally, if I'm in the office I would prefer to hotsync and print
  from the pc, either from SP-DT or export to a text or word editor for
  better formatting.  Don't ever expect SP-PDA to have full print
  formatting capability.

  Can't really figure out why would ever want IR link in office.  For
  laptop, prefer wireless LAN connection for much faster 2-way (in future,
  probably Bluetooth).

  My IR is all for field use where the PDA is on it's own.  SiPix mini
  printer is especially great because of it's tiny size.  Yep, not for
  fast, full page size, or high production ... but perfect for the "get
  by" pass out temp hard copy until I can get back to the office and get
  the document(s) properly formatted.

  In my professional life the PDA is a field data acquisition and
  reference tool that I can use to present a checklist to be checked,
  dated, and remarked; and to enter field notes and report text to be
  edited and formatted once I return to the office.  Of course the PDA
  also serves as a portable reference to my contacts and calendar, but
  that's a separate issue and not involved with the need for printing.

  When engineer's take paper notes on pads or in field notebooks, they can
  photocopy those manuscript notes and leave them for reference by others
  (no matter how crude and incomplete they are).  I have the same need to
  leave a hard copy of my PDA work-in-process ... or I have to go back to
  paper and pencil.

        Ward Y...

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 11:20 PM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] printboy

  On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

  > would also LOVE it if you had print support through Printboy for the
  > Palm, as i generally use it compared to the desktop portion!

        IR printer in the office?




  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Guess  <tcatnat@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 7:38pm
Subject: Re: Uninstall

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Guess wrote:
> 
> > I installed the desktop application and cannot uninstall. How do 
I do 
> > this? I keep getting could not load error message. I used the 2.6 
> > setup exe on Windows 2000.
> 
> 	You mean you cannot find the uninstaller, or cannot operate 
it for
> some reason?
> 
> 	ie: It should be in Add/Remove programs as soemthign to do 
with
> Codejedi.
> 
> 	If it fails, you can always just delete all the files where 
you
> had it install them, and remove ShadowPlan2.dll (do a file find for 
it ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

Thanks Jeff,

I tried to uninstall it through the Add/Remove programs and keep 
getting an error message. I will try to delete the files individually 
as you recomend.

From: msmietanka  <msmietanka@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 8:45pm
Subject: Re: Simple Printing from the Desktop

I am also new to Shadow Plan and use it for projects at work. I very 
much would like to share some of my lists with co-workers or print 
for my own use from the desktop.
Ideally, the desktop version will have more of the functionality of 
the Palm, much like HanDBase.  I would like to print out a filter of 
the list -- this would allow me to use one master list for all 
organizing and then filter out what I need for others or for myself 
in a given situation.

I think Shadow Plan is so powerful that it would be a formidable 
desktop program if the desktop component had more features.

Congratulations on creating a wonderful program.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, C. Ward Yelverton wrote:
> 
> > >	Very few people need printing from the PDA directly; as such 
it
> > >	must be low on my priority list. Few people have an IR or
> > bluetooth
> > >	printer around. 
> > 
> > This is what I find surprising ... that so many people are 
entering
> > data for their own enjoyment (?) without any need to share this 
data
> > with others.  My own experience, both DT and PDA, is the exact
> > opposite.  I seem to always have to print or fax.
> 
> 	PDA's are generally personal; but when data sharing is needed 
it
> usually is done through the desktop (email, etc).
> 
> 	Can you get a bluetooth interface for printers I wonder?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 9:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: Simple Printing from the Desktop

but do remember this Jeff, from what i can see most new printers are putting in the IR capability, and seems the new OS 5 pda's will have bluetooth installed, the capability to install it, etc.  these inclusions are right around the corner, and the more ahead of the game you are it seems the more people will come to your product and give it better reviews!!!
just a marketing thought...of course, i don't have to do the work.  ; )
keep up the greatness.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: msmietanka 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:45 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Simple Printing from the Desktop


  I am also new to Shadow Plan and use it for projects at work. I very 
  much would like to share some of my lists with co-workers or print 
  for my own use from the desktop.
  Ideally, the desktop version will have more of the functionality of 
  the Palm, much like HanDBase.  I would like to print out a filter of 
  the list -- this would allow me to use one master list for all 
  organizing and then filter out what I need for others or for myself 
  in a given situation.

  I think Shadow Plan is so powerful that it would be a formidable 
  desktop program if the desktop component had more features.

  Congratulations on creating a wonderful program.

  --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
  > On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, C. Ward Yelverton wrote:
  > 
  > > >      Very few people need printing from the PDA directly; as such 
  it
  > > >      must be low on my priority list. Few people have an IR or
  > > bluetooth
  > > >      printer around. 
  > > 
  > > This is what I find surprising ... that so many people are 
  entering
  > > data for their own enjoyment (?) without any need to share this 
  data
  > > with others.  My own experience, both DT and PDA, is the exact
  > > opposite.  I seem to always have to print or fax.
  > 
  >       PDA's are generally personal; but when data sharing is needed 
  it
  > usually is done through the desktop (email, etc).
  > 
  >       Can you get a bluetooth interface for printers I wonder?
  > 
  >             jeff
  > 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 9:55pm
Subject: Shadow, the thru gem amomg list makers, a future request for the Handheld vers.

Jeff, it never ceases to amaze the great functionality of Shadow, it 
is truly a gem.  I've been using the Import from Todo's(unfinished, 
all of them) and its great I get the parent and the children, is it 
possible to though for greater clarity to have an option for the 
parents to be in bold and with a specific color, let me be clear, not 
that all the parents have DIFFERENT colors but just that they have a 
specific color, ie Bold/Blue

thanks in advance...

From: Jeff and Karen Resener  <karjar@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 1:09am
Subject: Re:Memo Add fatel rest

Jeff, I have not been in the office for a bit now, I am wondering if you 
had any luck on the issue I sent to your support address in regards to 
creating a new memo, going to link manager and selecting add memo, but 
the memo does not appear, however the line where the memo should be 
(extra line but blank) can be highlighted resulting in a fatal reset. As 
I mentioned I can only fix this problem by reinstalling Shadow.prc. And 
even then, add a new memo go to link and I may have the problem again.
Thanks
jeff

From: bombrsx4me  <bombrsx4me@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 10:29am
Subject: Re: printboy

Yeah, we have 3 HP Lasers at work with IR. I Usually print to these 
with prinboy and quickoffice. I see the new printboy has support for 
other outliners.

Sean


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:
> 
> > would also LOVE it if you had print support through Printboy for 
the
> > Palm, as i generally use it compared to the desktop portion!
> 
> 	IR printer in the office?
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Justin Nelson  <justinn@e...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 11:18am
Subject: Sorting within an item

My question: If an item in a list is selected, and you expand items, only 
that item will be expanded to show its sub-items (not the whole list) - is 
there a way similarly to *sort* a single item's sub-items?

My reason: One of my list is for "Books". It includes a top-level item, 
"Authors", that I want to keep sorted alphabetically.  However, there are 
other top-level items that I do not want sorted alphabetically (eg: the 
sub-items for the classics are "Bible", "Greek", "Roman", "Middle Ages" and 
"Renaissance", that I want kept in that chronological order). If I sort 
"Authors", even with just that top-level item selected, the whole list 
(top-level items and their sub-items, and sub-sub-items, etc) are sorted 
alphabetically - it can get very confusing!

I suspect I am missing some simple setting or procedure (that's always been 
the case when I've posted to this list in the past!) but I can't find an 
answer in the manual, so I am throwing myself on this group's mercy again!!

Justin Nelson (jn@j...)
Direct line: 01580 710997 (International: +44 1580 710 997)
Fax: 0870 132 4129 (International: +44 870 132 4129)

From: John Charles Hallett  <jch@c...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 11:57am
Subject: Weighting

I'm a fairly new ShadowPlan user, but I've already got practically all my
organization in it. It's a great program. I understand that it was developed
as a to-do list replacement with a lot of emphasis on dates. But it is so
flexible that with the idea of assigning a value to each item I think I
could do so much more with it. I know there's been talk about this before,
but I really think it would be a such a useful and simple addition that I
want to add my vote here.

All I need is to be able to assign a value to each item, and the present the
sum of the values in the parent. I can think of so many uses for this
feature:

1. Project planning. I have to plan medium and large sized projects. I
divide the projects into tasks. If I could assign a value to each item
(usually, number of hours) I could do great project planning with Shadow,
summing the hours in the parent.  If checked items aren't included in the
sum I could even know how many hours are left as the project proceeds.

2. Budgets. When I'm doing shopping or planning large purchases, it would be
great to be able to put a value in each item and then know the total value.

I'm sure others can think of lots more uses.

What do you think?

John Hallett
A ShadowPlan Fan!

From: Guilherme Luiz Aguiar Pedrosa  <guilherme.pedrosa@i...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 0:12pm
Subject: Re: Filter feature request

Wow, I've got EXACTLY the same problem this week and came to the 
same conclusion.

But I think the OR groups would function better if they were AND 
groups joined by ORs... Then I would need only two groups 
instead of 4.

Just see what solution is easier to implement, Jeff. Either one 
would really be handy!

Guilherme.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002, clifton_cc wrote:
> 
> > I hope it isn't too bad of form to respond to my own post, 
but ...
> > 
> > > The filter I really want is
> > > 
> > > (checked is false) AND
> > > ( (target date is present AND target <= today) OR
> > >   (start date is present AND start <= today) )
> > > 
> > > But I can't write that with the current system of OR groups.
> > 
> > If we had 4 OR groups instead of 3, then I could write this 
filter as:
> > 
> > (checked is false) AND
> > (target date is present OR start date is present) AND
> > (target date is present OR start <= today) AND
> > (target <= today OR start date is present) AND
> > (target <= today OR start <= today)
> 
> 	I can perhaps add more filter groups if needed.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Sorting within an item

Justin Nelson wrote:


> My question: If an item in a list is selected, and you expand items, only
> that item will be expanded to show its sub-items (not the whole list) - is
> there a way similarly to *sort* a single item's sub-items?
>
There are two ways that I can think of.  One way is to select one of the
sub-items, then in the sort dialog box check the option "Sort Selected
item's level only."  The second way is to turn on the title bar, zoom inside
the item you want to sort, then tap the corresponding title by which you
want to sort.  There's one major difference between the two methods.  If you
use the title bar quick sort, it sorts items at the current level and
sub-levels.  The option in the dialog box lets you sort *only* at that
item's level.

Ling
--

From: bbeveridge  <bbeveridge@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:00pm
Subject: highlight color

Is there a way to change the black color used to highlight items?

I have played around with 'khroma', a program that lets you select the
color for various user interface objects, but can't find anything that
will effect the color that Shadow uses to highlight the currently
selected item.

Or maybe Shadow lets me control this already, but I haven't found where?

Or maybe this is a coming attraction?

TIA

Bob

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: Simple Printing from the Desktop

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, msmietanka wrote:

> I am also new to Shadow Plan and use it for projects at work. I very
> much would like to share some of my lists with co-workers or print for
> my own use from the desktop. Ideally, the desktop version will have
> more of the functionality of the Palm, much like HanDBase.  I would
> like to print out a filter of the list -- this would allow me to use
> one master list for all organizing and then filter out what I need for
> others or for myself in a given situation.
> 
> I think Shadow Plan is so powerful that it would be a formidable
> desktop program if the desktop component had more features.

	Don't worry, once we get the MAc OSX side a little settled down,
we'll be focusing on desktop feature growth. Filtering, better printing,
etc, are all on the todo list :)

> Congratulations on creating a wonderful program.

	Thanks!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:29pm
Subject: Re: Shadow, the thru gem amomg list makers, a future request for the Handheld vers.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> Jeff, it never ceases to amaze the great functionality of Shadow, it
> is truly a gem.  I've been using the Import from Todo's(unfinished,
> all of them) and its great I get the parent and the children, is it
> possible to though for greater clarity to have an option for the
> parents to be in bold and with a specific color, let me be clear, not
> that all the parents have DIFFERENT colors but just that they have a
> specific color, ie Bold/Blue

	You mean the "category" parent? It would be easily done (to a
specific colour, not a user chosen colour ;), but I'm not sure its much of
a value add :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:30pm
Subject: Re: Re:Memo Add fatel rest

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, Jeff and Karen Resener wrote:

> Jeff, I have not been in the office for a bit now, I am wondering if
> you had any luck on the issue I sent to your support address in
> regards to creating a new memo, going to link manager and selecting
> add memo, but the memo does not appear, however the line where the
> memo should be (extra line but blank) can be highlighted resulting in
> a fatal reset. As I mentioned I can only fix this problem by
> reinstalling Shadow.prc. And even then, add a new memo go to link and
> I may have the problem again.

	I've not had a chance to look at this yet, sorry :( I will keep it
on the list though.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:33pm
Subject: Re: Sorting within an item

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Justin Nelson wrote:

> My question: If an item in a list is selected, and you expand items,
> only that item will be expanded to show its sub-items (not the whole
> list) - is there a way similarly to *sort* a single item's sub-items?

	Sure; select a subitem and do a Sort with the checkbox set to sort
only that level.

> My reason: One of my list is for "Books". It includes a top-level
> item, "Authors", that I want to keep sorted alphabetically.  However,
> there are other top-level items that I do not want sorted
> alphabetically (eg: the sub-items for the classics are "Bible",
> "Greek", "Roman", "Middle Ages" and "Renaissance", that I want kept in
> that chronological order). If I sort "Authors", even with just that
> top-level item selected, the whole list (top-level items and their
> sub-items, and sub-sub-items, etc) are sorted alphabetically - it can
> get very confusing!

	Hmm. You could manually number the titles (stick "A. " or "B. " or
the like in there) and then an alpha sort would work. But you couldn't use
auto-numbering, since that is dynamic.

> I suspect I am missing some simple setting or procedure (that's always
> been the case when I've posted to this list in the past!) but I can't
> find an answer in the manual, so I am throwing myself on this group's
> mercy again!!

	hehe :)

	This list is pretty smart; I"m always learning things to do with
my own app here :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:37pm
Subject: Re: Weighting

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, John Charles Hallett wrote:

> I'm a fairly new ShadowPlan user, but I've already got practically all
> my organization in it. It's a great program. I understand that it was
> developed as a to-do list replacement with a lot of emphasis on dates.
> But it is so flexible that with the idea of assigning a value to each
> item I think I could do so much more with it. I know there's been talk
> about this before, but I really think it would be a such a useful and
> simple addition that I want to add my vote here.

	Actually, the goal was to be a good list application; it just so
turns out that being a great list program makes you a good ToDo
replacement too :)

	Weightings are on the priority list fairly high, fear not.

	You can fake it now using (say) Tags, but you couldn't get parent
summation this way. But it would work for record keeping.

> 1. Project planning. I have to plan medium and large sized projects. I
> divide the projects into tasks. If I could assign a value to each item
> (usually, number of hours) I could do great project planning with
> Shadow, summing the hours in the parent.  If checked items aren't
> included in the sum I could even know how many hours are left as the
> project proceeds.

	Thats an interesting requirement -- ignoring checked. I suppose
that would have to be a list option.. remind me about that later :)

> 2. Budgets. When I'm doing shopping or planning large purchases, it
> would be great to be able to put a value in each item and then know
> the total value.

	Yep.

	You'll get it, hopefully not too far away :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: Filter feature request

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, Guilherme Luiz Aguiar Pedrosa wrote:

> Wow, I've got EXACTLY the same problem this week and came to the 
> same conclusion.
> 
> But I think the OR groups would function better if they were AND 
> groups joined by ORs... Then I would need only two groups 
> instead of 4.
> 
> Just see what solution is easier to implement, Jeff. Either one 
> would really be handy!

	Adding another OR group is pretty easy for me. If thats good, I
can do it soon.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 5:42pm
Subject: Re: highlight color

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, bbeveridge wrote:

> Is there a way to change the black color used to highlight items?

	In the hilight menu you can select the colour to hilight as
:) Just hit the Pick button :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: quantum_sequoia  <sdwinter@p...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 6:38pm
Subject: Re: Managing Tags

Actually, I am trying to assign, say, 5 tags to 200 items BUT the 5 
tags are a varying subset of about 42 tags total. It isn't just a 
bulk tag assignment. Up until you implemented tags, I maintained 
multiple To Do lists (Admin, Computer, External House, Internal 
House, Auto, Personal, etc.) Inside the lists were top level events 
such as Repeating Items, Infrequent Items, Summer, Winter, Spring, 
Fall, etc. Since reading the manual regarding Tags and Filtering, I 
figured I'd try to combine all or most of these lists into one and 
use Tags and Filters to view different subsets of To Do items. I 
first created about 42 tags such as @Home, Monday, Spring, etc. and 
grouped them into categories (Time-based, Place-based, People-based, 
etc.) for ease of selection. Now, as I move groups of To Do items 
from my old lists into the new MegaList(!), I find I need to assign 
various combinations of the available Tags to the items. One item 
might need the External House, Spring, Summer, Fall, @Home tags while 
another might get Internal House, Repeating, Fall, Winter, Spring, 
and @Home tags. My suggestion for a 2-dimensional item-tag grid was 
an attempt at being able to depict and control the items and their 
tag situation (which are assigned, which are not) in a visually 
useful manner. Just an idea whose time may not have arrived!

Oh, I've never used any desktop outlining software in my life. Did 
someone else already think of this idea?

Thanks,

Steve

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002, quantum_sequoia wrote:
> 
> > In trying to move a handful of separate Shadow lists into one 
larger
> > list (with each item having numerous tags for eventual 
filtering), I
> > find it takes a fair amount of time to individually add each tag 
to
> > each item. If I'm bringing in 200 items and each can have an 
average
> > of 5 tags, then that's 1000 different assignments I need to 
make.  
> > Maybe there is a better way to do this. What about, in addition 
to the
> > current "Add Tag" method, using a more 2 dimensional method of
> > managing tags? Have a screen that looks like this:
> 
> 	An interesting idea, but I woudl rather come at things from
> analyzing the root needs and causes; ie: Your real need is to 
assign 1000
> tags (damn, 5 tags on *every* item?! :), so perhaps instead of 
defining a
> keen but comlpex and all new interface, you really just need a fast 
way fo
> mass-tagging? ie: "Assign this tag to all items in this sublevel", 
that
> sort of thing. PErhaps a simple coupel of taps to do a mass assign 
would
> be mroe efficient use of resources?
> 
> >     Tag #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 <>
> > Item
> > Item 1   X  X  X  X
> > Item 2   X     X     X
> > Item 3      X  X
> > Item 4      X     X  X
> > Item 5         X
> 
> 	Keen idea though. I bet you've used some now defunct desktop
> outliners ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Shadow, the true gem amomg list makers, a future request

I respectfully disagree Jeff, when you import your todos, the todo 
cat. will automatically be the parents and its nice to be able to 
color code all the parents in one shot, instead of leaving them with 
their standard color black, its just convenient, most people have 6-
12 cat. of todos with a bunch todos in those cat. so when one is on 
the go and wants to organize things quick, Import todos, unfinished, 
boom, nice display with whatever color you want to code the parents, 
btw, I love the font bucket with verdana(i think) 12, very nice...

but I think it would be really to have an option at least Jeff,

thanks in advance.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, jledesma28 wrote:
> 
> > Jeff, it never ceases to amaze the great functionality of 
Shadow, it
> > is truly a gem.  I've been using the Import from Todo's
(unfinished,
> > all of them) and its great I get the parent and the children, is 
it
> > possible to though for greater clarity to have an option for the
> > parents to be in bold and with a specific color, let me be 
clear, not
> > that all the parents have DIFFERENT colors but just that they 
have a
> > specific color, ie Bold/Blue
> 
> 	You mean the "category" parent? It would be easily done (to a
> specific colour, not a user chosen colour ;), but I'm not sure its 
much of
> a value add :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Managing Tags

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, quantum_sequoia wrote:

> Fall, etc. Since reading the manual regarding Tags and Filtering, I
> figured I'd try to combine all or most of these lists into one and use
> Tags and Filters to view different subsets of To Do items. I first
> created about 42 tags such as @Home, Monday, Spring, etc. and grouped
> them into categories (Time-based, Place-based, People-based, etc.) for
> ease of selection. Now, as I move groups of To Do items from my old
> lists into the new MegaList(!), I find I need to assign various
> combinations of the available Tags to the items. One item might need
> the External House, Spring, Summer, Fall, @Home tags while another
> might get Internal House, Repeating, Fall, Winter, Spring, and @Home
> tags. My suggestion for a 2-dimensional item-tag grid was an attempt
> at being able to depict and control the items and their tag situation
> (which are assigned, which are not) in a visually useful manner. Just
> an idea whose time may not have arrived!

	How is your Megalist working out? :)

	Mass-tagging sounds pretty interesting ot me; I'm thinkign your
tag-grid is ambitious, but may not solve your problem; imagine having 42
tags across .. impossible. So you'd have 5 or 6 categories of tags, with 5
or 10 tagsin each.. so you'd be scrolling left and right a lot, and
changing ctaegories a lot. It could help, but I'm not sure it would help
*well* :)
	We'll see. Its a very good idea, but lots of work :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: bbeveridge  <bbeveridge@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 8:43pm
Subject: Re: highlight color

Maybe I didn't use the right term - I didn't mean 'hilight' in the
sense that Shadow uses it in the Hilight menu, I was refering to when
you tap an item to select it, and the entire line is reversed - text
becomes white, the background black. This background color is what I
would like to change.

thanks,
Bob

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, bbeveridge wrote:
> 
> > Is there a way to change the black color used to highlight items?
> 
> 	In the hilight menu you can select the colour to hilight as
> :) Just hit the Pick button :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 9:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: highlight color

On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, bbeveridge wrote:

> Maybe I didn't use the right term - I didn't mean 'hilight' in the
> sense that Shadow uses it in the Hilight menu, I was refering to when
> you tap an item to select it, and the entire line is reversed - text
> becomes white, the background black. This background color is what I
> would like to change.

	Ahh. Thats locked in as black for various OS happy reasons. One of
these days I'll build a subsystem to handle a nice background colour
changer, but its actually reasonably complex due to the way the OS handles
painting...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 0:27am
Subject: Request for the Handheld Re: Import from Todo

Hi Jeff,

I would be nice if one could pick a series of categories to import 
at the same time, is this possible, currently we can either select a 
category or the whole todo database but nothing in between. It'd be 
nice to be able to make a quick list with a few selected categories 
from Todo's. Is this possible ?

thanks

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 0:33am
Subject: Re: Request for the Handheld Re: Import from Todo

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> I would be nice if one could pick a series of categories to import at
> the same time, is this possible, currently we can either select a
> category or the whole todo database but nothing in between. It'd be
> nice to be able to make a quick list with a few selected categories
> from Todo's. Is this possible ?

	Its possible, but not "easy" per se (but not hard either). The OS
doesn't provide a multiple-selection widget :)

	Right now I'm focusing only on the OS5 highres side, 5-way
controller, virtual grafitti, and handera highres, and then back to the
Mac OSX alpha stability. Not getting adventurous on the handheld yet :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: podemskir  <podemskir@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:10am
Subject: Spell Checking

What spell checking software works with Shadow?  Please share your 
experience.

From: Jeff and Karen Resener  <karjar@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 6:56am
Subject: Re:Shadow link and OS5

Would it be safe to say that ShadowLink will not work with shadowPlan 
and OS5?. If so, any thoughts on what you may forsee if anything, that 
would allow jumping back to Shadow after following a link (ie, the 
tapping on "Shadow" in the note tag of the ToDo or appointment?
jeff (looking real seriously at the Tungsten, but hate giving up my 
hacks and system setup on the 515)

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

Jeff and Karen Resener wrote:

> Would it be safe to say that ShadowLink will not work with shadowPlan
> and OS5?.

Not as such :)  The only extension manager that I know of that works under
OS5 is TealMaster.  It doesn't handle trapping FldHandleEvent, however,
which, unfortunately, ShadowLink uses.  I can change it to trap a
TealMaster-compatible event and see how that works.  That's really not a
good solution, however, as TealMaster is not freeware and I'd like to keep
the use of ShadowLink totally cost-free.  I'm looking into making ShadowLink
not dependent on an extension manager and that might be the route to go.  In
any case, I don't have an OS5 unit (and won't get one) so any testing beyond
the OS5 Simulator will need volunteers.

Ling
--

From: Doug M-C  <doug@m...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 9:53pm
Subject: Dreaming

Some time ago, Jeff, you asked if we would like a drawing
component and got almost no response. At the time I thought, what
a silly idea ;-) But now, a drawing note that synched... yes,
please!

More than that, I want to be able to draw on the handheld, and
import graphics from other programs on the desktop. Imports from
bmp, gif, jpeg, and tiff would be great. 

BTW: Add my vote to a weighting column/field when you get back to
the handheld, please. 

Also, on the handheld, I still add tags most commonly when
creating an item by using the <links> button. For me, it makes
sense to do any date, todo, address, and tag links all at once.
Without tag categories and the sticky tab (address/memo/tag),
this is a very inefficient process for multiple tags!

And, still on the handheld, add times to the dates for target
date, at least, for adding meetings to the datebook, and the
alarms you were talking about a while ago.

Thanks for the desktop progress, I am enjoying shadow more than
ever!

Doug

*************************************
   Doug Morrison-Cleary
doug@m...

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 10:17pm
Subject: Feature suggestion : user-defined dates

Time and time again, people have asked Jeff and Jeff has asked people about what kinds of dates to include in the date popup. Right now it's 'No Date', 'Yesterday', 'Today', etc. 
How about creating another 'page' in the General Preferences where a Shadow user could enter a date title and then a +/- value to indicate how many days from today the target date should be moved. Or simply import a properly-formatted and specially-named Memo when necessary? 

For example, the existing choices would be -

Yesterday = -1
Today = 0
Tomorrow = +1
+1 week = +7

'No Date' and 'Choose Date', the other choices, would be included by default, as could the oft-requested 'Beginning of next week' but with a shorter name (Nxt week?) and based on the global datebook first day-of-the-week pref.

Finally, this could be a way to let people decide how many date types they want depending on how many they define in their list.

Jacob



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Alan Macdougall  <dubh@c...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:43am
Subject: Shadow Tags in shadow-xml

I'm interested in trying to parse Shadow XML using the weblogging 
tool Radio Userland. (I like the idea - perhaps too ambitious for my 
limited scripting skills - of using Shadow's outliner as a weblogging 
tool on my Palm, then using Radio's XML handling tools and the 
MetaWeblog API to take the resulting XML file and post it to my 
weblog automagically...!)

What would be really useful would be to get meaningful tag names into 
the XML - at the moment the tag attributes just seem to be some kind 
of number (a timestamp?). That way I could assign a tag attribute of 
say, "Title" to the title of a weblog post, and place the item as a 
child to the actual post data (which would be inside a "Note"). Other 
components of a weblog posting (as per RSS 2.0) could also be tagged 
in Shadow with their name - things 
like "Link", , "Category", "PubDate" and "Source" etc.

Alternatively, where on the desktop does a key to the tag attributes 
live? Or maybe (as always) there's another, better way to skin this 
cat?

cheers

Alan

References:
Radio Userland: <http://radio.userland.com/>
Metaweblog API: <http://www.xmlrpc.com/metaWeblogApi>
RSS 2.0 spec:   <http://backend.userland.com/rss>

From: geoffthieme  <geoffthieme@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:11am
Subject: Re: Complex Indent Custom Filter

I found a simpler solution. I'm just going to put all level 1 
items w/a prority of less than 4 into a seperate list.

The only problem is that my level 1 is actually at level 3, so 
when I send the items from list to list (using "Send Clip to 
File") the items loose their "level" in the list. Uh well, I 
guess you can't have everything. I'll just have to cut and paste 
each item at the top of my list into into its apporpriate level 
in the list. Actaully this is kinda hand caz I can priorize each 
item when I move it.

Thanks for explaining the filter options. Now I know it 
can't be done instead of driving myself crazy trying to find a 
solution.

Later,
Geoff

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:
> 
> > The parents don't need to be hidden. I would prefer
> > the parents are still shown. I am looking for a way to 
display only 
> > the children of projects that have been prioritized (priority 
1-4, 
> > but not 5 and -). I still want un-prioritized children of 
these 
> > projects to be displayed so I can prioritize them.
> > 
> > This would also allow me to associated tags with a project 
(level 3 
> > in my previous email) and remove the need for tags on each 
sub-tasks 
> > under a project. Thus greatly reducing the time taken to add 
sub-
> > tasks (children @ level 4) to a project because tags would 
not need 
> > to be added to each individual task (just the project it is a 
part 
> > of).
> > 
> > I'm wondering if allowing "AND" groups in filters would solve 
the 
> > problem.
> > 
> > AND Group  Rule
> > ---------  ----
> > A          Indent level greater/equal to 3
> > B          Indent level equal 3
> > B          Priority not equal 0
> > B          Priority not equal 5
> > 
> > Or doesn't it work like that?
> 
> 	Hmm..
> 
> A	Indent level == 0
> A	Priority <= 4
> B	Indent >= 1
> 
> 	See, that almost does it.. first group to match correct 
parents,
> second group to match the right children. PRoblem is the second 
group will
> match every deep item ...
> 
> 	How about this..
> 
> 	A new rule which says "GroupA == True" or "GruopA ==
> False" (ie: New rules for Group A, Group B, Group C, and 
they're boolean
> with onyl true or false value matches for a match has been made 
or
> not. Then you could do this:
> 
> A	Indent level == 0
> A	Priority <= 4
> B	Indent >= 1
> B	GroupA == True
> 
> 	No wait, OR-groups must have 1 pass, so this is 
impossible to
> pass..
> 
> 	We're getting to the point we need to make two filters, 
that
> depend on each other. Ohh, that'll have to wait.
> 
> 	Got to think of a good way of doign this sort of complex
> requirement easily..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:15am
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

Russ & Ling wrote:

> Jeff and Karen Resener wrote:
>
> > Would it be safe to say that ShadowLink will not work with shadowPlan
> > and OS5?.
>
> Not as such :)  The only extension manager that I know of that works under
> OS5 is TealMaster.  It doesn't handle trapping FldHandleEvent, however,
> which, unfortunately, ShadowLink uses.  I can change it to trap a
> TealMaster-compatible event and see how that works.  That's really not a

Okay, I got a version that works with TealMaster under OS5.  I still want to
make it independent of an extension manager, but at least we know ShadowLink
will work under OS5.

Ling
--

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:24pm
Subject: Start/Finish columns?

How high is Start and Finish optional columns (a la target date
column) on your lists?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:36pm
Subject: Re: Start/Finish columns?

I'd like them as other View Manager options. Start date would be useful for planning upcoming projects.

Jacob
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:24 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Start/Finish columns?



        How high is Start and Finish optional columns (a la target date
  column) on your lists?

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Jeff and Karen Resener wrote:

> Would it be safe to say that ShadowLink will not work with shadowPlan
> and OS5?. If so, any thoughts on what you may forsee if anything, that
> would allow jumping back to Shadow after following a link (ie, the
> tapping on "Shadow" in the note tag of the ToDo or appointment? jeff
> (looking real seriously at the Tungsten, but hate giving up my hacks
> and system setup on the 515)

	ShadowLink likely won't work under OS5, though I've not tried it.
As Ling mentions, TealMaster tries to simulate some limited few mechanisms
for Hacks, but I've not looked to see which ones.

	OS5 supports a new system to allow things like Hacks, so
ShadowLink will need to get rewritten for that, if its doable and if Link
wants to do it :) Ask her nicely :)

	The new system is pretty good in a lot of ways.. ie: Hacks worked,
but not really well, and more by luck and convention than anything
else. OS5 tries to standardize how that works, in a simple way that should
depend less on Hack authors playing with voodoo. Its still young, so
doesn't support what all Hacks need, but it shoudl support most Hack needs
quite well.

	So I imagine its possible to write something like ShadowLink, or
at least quick DA-launcher type hacks like MCPhling. Just a matter of
time.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Russ & Ling wrote:

> Not as such :)  The only extension manager that I know of that works
> under OS5 is TealMaster.  It doesn't handle trapping FldHandleEvent,
> however, which, unfortunately, ShadowLink uses.  I can change it to
> trap a TealMaster-compatible event and see how that works.  That's
> really not a good solution, however, as TealMaster is not freeware and
> I'd like to keep the use of ShadowLink totally cost-free.  I'm looking
> into making ShadowLink not dependent on an extension manager and that
> might be the route to go.  In any case, I don't have an OS5 unit (and
> won't get one) so any testing beyond the OS5 Simulator will need
> volunteers.

	"not get one"? Holding out for OS6? :)

	The Simulator ought to be sufficient for that sort of thing; it
has a lot of shortcomings, and some oddities.. but I've found it works
more or less well until you get into crazy things...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:43pm
Subject: Re: Dreaming

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Doug M-C wrote:

> Some time ago, Jeff, you asked if we would like a drawing component
> and got almost no response. At the time I thought, what a silly idea
> ;-) But now, a drawing note that synched... yes, please!

	Ahh, see ;) Maybe. I still think linking to other apps would be a
good way to do it, but wouldn't get you synching :/ A little built in
sketcher could be nice and fun to work on.

> More than that, I want to be able to draw on the handheld, and import
> graphics from other programs on the desktop. Imports from bmp, gif,
> jpeg, and tiff would be great.

	Thats way out of scope. I'm not interested in making an image
viewer in Shadow. Someday maybe an image viewer plugin or something, but
certainly no way soon you're going to get SplashPhoto in Shadow.. what
would be the point? 

	Microsoft never learned it.. but others have. One program
*shoudln't* do it all :) It is always best to keep to what you're good at,
and interact well with other apps.. to create a cohesive whole. Your Palm
wouldn't be any good if the apps didn't all play nicely :)

> BTW: Add my vote to a weighting column/field when you get back to the
> handheld, please.

	Yep. I'm trying to keep it on my shortlist :)

> Also, on the handheld, I still add tags most commonly when creating an
> item by using the <links> button. For me, it makes sense to do any
> date, todo, address, and tag links all at once. Without tag categories
> and the sticky tab (address/memo/tag), this is a very inefficient
> process for multiple tags!

	I hear ya.

> And, still on the handheld, add times to the dates for target date, at
> least, for adding meetings to the datebook, and the alarms you were
> talking about a while ago.

	Maybe. Still via linking is the way to go. Ahh, sigh, so much to
do so little time :/ You bring up all these things I want to work on, but
need more time :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Feature suggestion : user-defined dates

On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

> Time and time again, people have asked Jeff and Jeff has asked people
> about what kinds of dates to include in the date popup. Right now it's
> 'No Date', 'Yesterday', 'Today', etc.

> How about creating another 'page' in the General Preferences where a
> Shadow user could enter a date title and then a +/- value to indicate
> how many days from today the target date should be moved. Or simply
> import a properly-formatted and specially-named Memo when necessary?

	An interesting idea for sure. The question I suppose is, woudl
making a general system actualy prove useful, or would 99% of people just
define the same ones?

		jeff

> 
> For example, the existing choices would be -
> 
> Yesterday = -1
> Today = 0
> Tomorrow = +1
> +1 week = +7
> 
> 'No Date' and 'Choose Date', the other choices, would be included by default, as could the oft-requested 'Beginning of next week' but with a shorter name (Nxt week?) and based on the global datebook first day-of-the-week pref.
> 
> Finally, this could be a way to let people decide how many date types they want depending on how many they define in their list.
> 
> Jacob
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:47pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Tags in shadow-xml

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Alan Macdougall wrote:

> I'm interested in trying to parse Shadow XML using the weblogging tool
> Radio Userland. (I like the idea - perhaps too ambitious for my
> limited scripting skills - of using Shadow's outliner as a weblogging
> tool on my Palm, then using Radio's XML handling tools and the
> MetaWeblog API to take the resulting XML file and post it to my weblog
> automagically...!)

	I'd like to see this work; I'm curious how cool you could make it
look. I've never used RU :)

> What would be really useful would be to get meaningful tag names into
> the XML - at the moment the tag attributes just seem to be some kind
> of number (a timestamp?). That way I could assign a tag attribute of
> say, "Title" to the title of a weblog post, and place the item as a
> child to the actual post data (which would be inside a "Note"). Other
> components of a weblog posting (as per RSS 2.0) could also be tagged
> in Shadow with their name - things like "Link", , "Category",
> "PubDate" and "Source" etc.

	yeah; I do intend on adding "hints" to various fields; ie: The
dates are in Palm Time Epoch, but I might add a field like "<hint
Dec-21-2002>" or the like, to make parsing easy.

	The Tag number is actually the Unique ID for the Palm Record in
the ShadowTags file on the handheld.

	I suppose a brute force way of doing it before I get to the above
would be to make an item for each tag, then write the tag name into the
text field, and then link to the right tag. So then you could sync the
file, and see in the XML essentially: "Home" "1234567", and know that Home
is that number. Then assume that number in your translation script?

	(ie: The number will never change, even across device resets and
reinstalls)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:57pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>
> OS5 supports a new system to allow things like Hacks, so
> ShadowLink will need to get rewritten for that, if its doable and if Link
> wants to do it :) Ask her nicely :)
>
Yeah, I'm looking into the notifications system now.  Looks like fun.  I'll
have to add stuff an extension manager used to do for me, like enabling
after a soft reset, but it doesn't look too hard.  We'll see.

Ling
--

From: Frederick G. Turner  <fred@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:13pm
Subject: RE: Feature suggestion : user-defined dates

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Jacob Share wrote:
> 
> > Time and time again, people have asked Jeff and Jeff has 
> asked people 
> > about what kinds of dates to include in the date popup. 
> Right now it's 
> > 'No Date', 'Yesterday', 'Today', etc.
> 
> > How about creating another 'page' in the General 
> Preferences where a 
> > Shadow user could enter a date title and then a +/- value 
> to indicate 
> > how many days from today the target date should be moved. Or simply 
> > import a properly-formatted and specially-named Memo when necessary?
> 
> 	An interesting idea for sure. The question I suppose 
> is, woudl making a general system actualy prove useful, or 
> would 99% of people just define the same ones?
> 
> 		jeff

I had previously requested this, respecting the lines already
established by DateBk5. I really think this is a low-hanging fruit kind
of addition, and hope you will consider it closely Jeff. I think that if
you believe 99% of users will define the same ones, then we should
perhaps stop discussing this (to me, rather obvious) idea and get it
implemented! ;)

Fred.

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:13pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Russ & Ling wrote:
>
> > might be the route to go.  In any case, I don't have an OS5 unit (and
> > won't get one) so any testing beyond the OS5 Simulator will need
> > volunteers.
>
> "not get one"? Holding out for OS6? :)
>
Heh.  Palm programming is a hobby for me.  My Clie is just 1 year old.  No
way I can justify upgrading now.  By the time I'm ready for the next PDA,
it'll probably be OS7 :)

> The Simulator ought to be sufficient for that sort of thing; it
> has a lot of shortcomings, and some oddities.. but I've found it works
> more or less well until you get into crazy things...

By the way, Shadow 2.6.3 runs fine with the release ROM in the Simulator,
but borks all over with the debug ROM (DR12).  Is this your experience as
well?  Or do I not have some settings right?

Ling
--

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:29pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Russ & Ling wrote:

> > OS5 supports a new system to allow things like Hacks, so
> > ShadowLink will need to get rewritten for that, if its doable and if Link
> > wants to do it :) Ask her nicely :)
> Yeah, I'm looking into the notifications system now.  Looks like fun.  I'll
> have to add stuff an extension manager used to do for me, like enabling
> after a soft reset, but it doesn't look too hard.  We'll see.

	Yeah, I sort of like the new system. Seems nice and simple, though
a little lacking. More priorities woudl be nice, and priority standards so
people know how to chose them. And it seems some notification handlers can
swipe events from other handlers of different priorities.. so a badly
written hack can kill the whole system. But its a step in the right
direction.

	The real trick becomes.. now Hack authors need a configuration
screen of their own; sonce notifier handlers can handle their own gig,
theres no Hackmaster type UI to enable/disable individual extensions, and
do we want people to go to 10 different extensions to enable or disable
them in a different way each time?

	We'll see how it pans out :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:31pm
Subject: RE: Feature suggestion : user-defined dates

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Frederick G. Turner wrote:

> I had previously requested this, respecting the lines already
> established by DateBk5. I really think this is a low-hanging fruit
> kind of addition, and hope you will consider it closely Jeff. I think
> that if you believe 99% of users will define the same ones, then we
> should perhaps stop discussing this (to me, rather obvious) idea and
> get it implemented! ;)

	I've got banked up all those messages from a few months ago.

	Its the "limited time" problem ;) When you've got a few hundred
todo items you have to pick and choose carefully :) Right now we're being
taken up by the "broad stroke" changes (like OSX, etc). Once those things
all settle down, we can get to the little things and plow through some of
them.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:39pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Russ & Ling wrote:

> > The Simulator ought to be sufficient for that sort of thing; it
> > has a lot of shortcomings, and some oddities.. but I've found it works
> > more or less well until you get into crazy things...
> 
> By the way, Shadow 2.6.3 runs fine with the release ROM in the
> Simulator, but borks all over with the debug ROM (DR12).  Is this your
> experience as well?  Or do I not have some settings right?

	Correct.

	Read on if you're interested in developer hacking ;)

	To make apps OS5 friendly is a little or a lot of work depending
how naughty you are; writing direct to screen is a guaranteed way to break
an app from OS4 going to OS5.. use the APIs, or update for OS5. Shadow
however has always been very faithful to the Palm API's and standards, and
I closely tracked the OS5 news so make sure Shadow would be first to work.
It looks like you can go back about a year and Shadow will still more or
less work fine in OS5 :)

	However, theres one thing I never bothered to fix, since I know
PACE would cover for me, and I've not had time. Its a little thing, but
something I'll change a bit later. It just too dardned conveniant to give
up easily.. makes the code really ugly to change it to how it should be ;)

	The Palm OS API includes a type "RectangleType" for holding
regions (x, y, width, height). It is used for clipping regions, gadget
sizing, you name it. Forms, Gadgets, etc, all include a bounding box in a
RectangleType.

	Since I jump through hoops to resize and move gadgets around by
device, resolution, scrollbar presence, and lots of options, my engine is
pretty tight with the OS. One thing it assumes is that it can read these
RectangleTypes from all over the place.. it just assumes it can look into
the main gadget and see how big it is, for instance. In (I think) OS4.1
SDK they started to really push towards you not doing this, but I knew the
PACE guys were already supporting Rectangle reads in OS5, so I didn't
sweat it. Also, they never provided an API/Glue routine to peek where I
needed to peek...

	Why? Because I've got piles of references to rectangles. And I
can't just use a macro which changes a direct read into a function call
and direct read, since I use many rectangle reads in each function, for
different rectangles.. so its actual development work to change them all
:)

	So, in short, the Sim complains about me poking around in
Rectnalges a lot. Thats the only time I ignore the rules. I also know PACE
directly supports it.

	I expect to change it in awhile, but not just yet. Too much to do
:/

	Since the Release Sim doesn't warn about things that PACE accepts,
you'll find no warnings in Release.. Shadow honours all the Release rules,
and as such works out of box for OS5 :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:40pm
Subject: Re: Re:Shadow link and OS5

Yes Ling!  I have both OS 5 and Teal Master, thus would LOVE a version that works in that set up.  Thanks for your work.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Russ & Ling 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:15 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re:Shadow link and OS5


  Russ & Ling wrote:

  > Jeff and Karen Resener wrote:
  >
  > > Would it be safe to say that ShadowLink will not work with shadowPlan
  > > and OS5?.
  >
  > Not as such :)  The only extension manager that I know of that works under
  > OS5 is TealMaster.  It doesn't handle trapping FldHandleEvent, however,
  > which, unfortunately, ShadowLink uses.  I can change it to trap a
  > TealMaster-compatible event and see how that works.  That's really not a

  Okay, I got a version that works with TealMaster under OS5.  I still want to
  make it independent of an extension manager, but at least we know ShadowLink
  will work under OS5.

  Ling
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