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7501

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 0:52pm
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Hey Jeff,

DayNotez is pretty cool; it seems to fit in the GTD model, but
anything that puts a date and a time on something would probably fit...

DateBk5 has the Daily Journal feature, which creates an untimed event
called, oddly enough, "Daily Journal" (if it doesn't exist on that day
already), and inserts the current time.

I have both and can't decide between the two. i like the daynotez
interface (try it out, it's neat), and DayNotez lets you link each
entry to an address, as well as create ToDos right from within the
text (which i don't use, see below re BTW); but i like reducing the
number of apps i use and DateBk5 is just so gosh-darn useful in all
other aspects (plus it has the linking, it just goes on the Daily
Journal entry, and not on each individual time entry).

Supporting DayNotez has the effect of supporting an alledged Shadow
competitor (they create Bonsai as well), but i hear the only advantage
Bonsai has is the desktop, and not for long. And you've promised a
Linux desktop, and that means there ain't no competition.

BTW, I already use Shadow for all my projects, creating 'next actions'
as children and linking them to appropriate context-categories within
the ToDo list, but i will use it for all reference information once
there's a Linux desktop. Currently i use memopad entries, which i can
access on the desktop.

Thanks for the great app,

-tom!


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I'm curious what is out there for purposes of dated note
> taking; ie: Datebook isn't good at it. Shadow is good for all forms of
> note taking, but I wonder what else is in this field.. Shadow is more a
> generalist after all and I'm curious what other applications are
doing in
> this arena. Perhaps Shadow has some things to pick up from these
guys, or
> perhaps Shadow needs to link to these guys? Since I know nothign of
> whatevers out there, I've become curious :)
> 
> 	I've heard only of DayNotez; I ran into someone today who was
> raving about it. Does anyone use it? Does it fit into GTD and Shadow
Plan
> systems well? 
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7502

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 0:57pm
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
My last post just answered the question of my dilemna regarding
DayNotez vs. Shadow... i can't access DayNotez data on the desktop
without a manual export to Doc (within DayNotez); with the DateBk5
Daily Journal, it would be accessible through any of the current
desktops (jpilot or whatever).

What's the best linux desktop?

-tom!
7503

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:03pm
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Sorry, meant DayNotez vs. DateBk5!

-tom!

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "tsuchy" <tsuchy@y...> wrote:
> My last post just answered the question of my dilemna regarding
> DayNotez vs. Shadow... i can't access DayNotez data on the desktop
> without a manual export to Doc (within DayNotez); with the DateBk5
> Daily Journal, it would be accessible through any of the current
> desktops (jpilot or whatever).
> 
> What's the best linux desktop?
> 
> -tom!
7504

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> > 	When nothing is selected, jog is page up/down. 
> Agreed - All OK
> 
> > When an item is
> > selected, it is scroll selection 1 up/down. 
> Agreed - All OK
> 
> > Push the jog dial to select an item, 
> Nah - not here

	So pushing Jog opens details while an item is selected, but does
nothing while no item is selected? Thats pretty strange.. please confirm.

> > or go into details, etcx
> Agreed
> > Push Back to unselect or go back to file
> > listing. 
> Agreed
> 
> I tried switching off all the Hacks. Still did the same thing. OK -
> Must be an NR70V thing. Not to worry.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7505

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Importing from Bonsai?

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, David  Bengtson wrote:

> Can anyone suggest a good way to import a couple of large (300 items
> or so) outlines from Bonsai? I'd prefer to keep as many attributes as
> possible. These outlines are too bid for the memo pad. 

	Can you get a desktop-side export? What does it look like?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7506

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:41pm
Subject: Re: Minor issue on 2.6beta1 (DT)

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Ken Latham wrote:

> Thanks for the fixup on the sync for '&'s in the link references,
> works purrrfectly.  I see you're not using the same code to read the
> XML in the sync as in the desktop, though.  Desktop still chokes on

	Desktop and conduit uses same code; perhaps I neglected to rebuild
the desktop just prior to bulding the installer.. that would explain a few
things if its a version behind on common code :/

> the '&'s.  Should I just give up on this "XML illegal character" and
> pick another marker?  I'd like to pick one that's low usage but still
> XML legal, so it'll stand the test of time. ;)

	No. We're in beta, expect issues :) I'll fix for next update
(shoudl be soon..tonight or tomrorow likely)

> I'm out to M$ Devcon for the next week, but I'm feeling confident
> enough to start dual sync'ing when I get back... I'll let you know of
> anything I find...

	Keen, thanks.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7507

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
Is this a setting problem somewhere on the Clie? It works fine on my T415,
and I know others that have it working on their T615's. Something is weird
here, because my jog-dial in Shadow works just as expected in all cases.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Anthony                                                                                        
                    Schellenberg         To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    <aschell@p...        cc:                                                                       
                    loyal.com>           Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1     
                                                                                                                   
                    10/17/2002                                                                                     
                    07:54 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   





Doesn't work for me either, with or without powerjog enabled.  T615.


>> Upon opening a list, depressing the jog dial once highlights the first
item
>> in the list, and from there you can scroll all items. Hope this helps.
>
>Thats what I THOUGHT should happen - Its doesn't on an NR70V (in any
screen mode)
>
>A small feature of the Sony perhaps?
>Graham


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7508

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.6 beta 1 and Autonumbering:

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, alwaysenuf wrote:

> I'm using the beta sent with the installer,-- screen says 1.9.4
> during sync.  AutoNumbering is set, but numbers don't show on the 
> screen for all of the items.  I have about 190 items in the list and 
> every 3 or so item does not display the number on the hh screen when 
> you first open file after a sync.  If you do open an item without a 
> number,  when you close it the number appears-- 
> I have a custom view set to show check box, title, to do link, skinny 
> tag, days til due and link arrow, and to auto number on first level.

	Are these items yu;'ve been moving around using the desktop drag
and drop or push-arrows?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7509

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:49pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, tsuchy wrote:

> DayNotez is pretty cool; it seems to fit in the GTD model, but
> anything that puts a date and a time on something would probably fit...
> 
> DateBk5 has the Daily Journal feature, which creates an untimed event
> called, oddly enough, "Daily Journal" (if it doesn't exist on that day
> already), and inserts the current time.

	Ah, right. I'd forgotten about this DB5 feature. I still haven't
moved over to DB5 yet, I must confess, despite the amoral activities of
Agendusboys :/ (ie: When DB5 first came out, I tried it, and it was very
slow, and didn't have highres support that was useful for me. I fear these
are still the case, but I'll have ot giv it a try again). I'd really
rather use DB5, but it needs a good strong week list view :)

> Supporting DayNotez has the effect of supporting an alledged Shadow
> competitor (they create Bonsai as well), but i hear the only advantage
> Bonsai has is the desktop, and not for long. And you've promised a
> Linux desktop, and that means there ain't no competition.

	I'm not too concerned; Natara are a decent bunch of guys from all
accounts (even if they can't admit the same about me.. they like to dis
others, but I'll chalk that up to insane corporate culture on their part
:P) So supporting Natara is okay, but supporing Bonsai isn't. Of course, I
let the market decide such things, and the number of folks who come to
Shadow from Bonsai reveals a lot :)

> BTW, I already use Shadow for all my projects, creating 'next actions'
> as children and linking them to appropriate context-categories within
> the ToDo list, but i will use it for all reference information once
> there's a Linux desktop. Currently i use memopad entries, which i can
> access on the desktop.
> 
> Thanks for the great app,

	Velcome! :)

	So much more to do.. the "perfect app" is such a lofty goal :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7510

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, tsuchy wrote:

> My last post just answered the question of my dilemna regarding
> DayNotez vs. Shadow... i can't access DayNotez data on the desktop
> without a manual export to Doc (within DayNotez); with the DateBk5
> Daily Journal, it would be accessible through any of the current
> desktops (jpilot or whatever).

	Good call.

> What's the best linux desktop?

	None of them support a standard syncing method. I wish they'd all
agree on something...

	I think I'll try DB5 again..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7511

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:57pm
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	Ah, right. I'd forgotten about this DB5 feature. I still haven't
> moved over to DB5 yet, I must confess, despite the amoral activities of
> Agendusboys :/ (ie: When DB5 first came out, I tried it, and it was very
> slow, and didn't have highres support that was useful for me. I fear
these
> are still the case, but I'll have ot giv it a try again). I'd really
> rather use DB5, but it needs a good strong week list view :)

It was very slow the first time i tried it as well, but it seems to
have gotten quicker; i don't know about highres, since i'm still on my
VIIx.

DB5 does have week list views, unless i misunderstand what you mean. 
There's the 1/2 week view, the 1 week view, and the two week view,
plus the list view can be totally customized (using saved views). It's
really good! Also, the DateBk5 documentation is the best doc i've seen
for software; usually i don't even refer to documentation, but DB5
needs it, and it's worth it.
7512

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:13pm
Subject: RE: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Agendus has a daily journal feature as well, but I don't use it because
I like DayNotez so much. I probably don't use half of its features, just
use it as a journal/diary program and also keep random sayings & quotes
in there. I like the way it exports to WordSmith so nicely on the
handheld, that allows me to keep my journals by month with almost no
effort at all.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
 
> DateBk5 has the Daily Journal feature, which creates an untimed event
> called, oddly enough, "Daily Journal" (if it doesn't exist on that day
> already), and inserts the current time.

	Ah, right. I'd forgotten about this DB5 feature. I still haven't
moved over to DB5 yet, I must confess, despite the amoral activities of
Agendusboys :/ (ie: When DB5 first came out, I tried it, and it was very
slow, and didn't have highres support that was useful for me. I fear
these
are still the case, but I'll have ot giv it a try again). I'd really
rather use DB5, but it needs a good strong week list view :)
7513

From: Larry King  <larryking23@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:34pm
Subject: RE: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Jen, I love Daynotez too!  Yeah, we have datebk5's daily journal, but I prefer to write, edit and view my diary in Daynotez desktop.
Larry
 PocketGoddess <jen@p...> wrote:Agendus has a daily journal feature as well, but I don't use it because
I like DayNotez so much. I probably don't use half of its features, just
use it as a journal/diary program and also keep random sayings & quotes
in there. I like the way it exports to WordSmith so nicely on the
handheld, that allows me to keep my journals by month with almost no
effort at all.

Jen



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7514

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, tsuchy wrote:

> DB5 does have week list views, unless i misunderstand what you mean. 

	EEp, I might be dredging up an old thread; but my grips is
simple..

	DB5 has a list view for the week. But its badly designed:

	It looks ilke this:

05/05	Thing
.	Thing
05/06	Thnig
.	Thing
.	Thing

	So there is space reserved on every line for recurring data.. the
date. So you lose 1/4 of your valued screen territory for data that does
nto change. This is generally a cardinal sin, since most people have
multiple things per day (otherwise it'd onyl need to show 5 items,
right? :)

	It shoudl be:

--- Date ---
Thing
Thing
--- Date ---
Thing
Thing
Thing

	This is a much better use of space. It bugs the hell otu of me,
because thats the only feature I need out of a datebook app, and Agendus
or Action Names or whatever it is does it really nicely. And with nice
colour and icons and all that. I think DB5 can do the icons fine, but not
the same colour effects or the layout.

	Once het gets a good layout, I'm switching over within an horu of
finding out about it :)

	I'm really trying to resist writing an app to do week views the
way I want, since I'd end up going crazy with it :P

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7515

From: Michael Davidson  <mdavids+yahoo@b...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18  2002, Jeff Mitchell (support@s...) wrote:
> 
> 	It shoudl be:
> 
> --- Date ---
> Thing
> Thing
> --- Date ---
> Thing
> Thing
> Thing
> 
> 	Once het gets a good layout, I'm switching over within an horu of
> finding out about it :)

This is totally doable in DB5. You want either a list view or the normal
1-week view. The 1-week view is even better than the one you describe -
the date is right-justified so that it can fit on the same line as an
item. Mine looks roughly like this:

Thing
Thing
Thing Dt
--------
Thing
Thing Dt

It also has two columns. Maybe you were looking at an older version, or
maybe you weren't looking at the right view. But it does have something
very similar to your 'good' layout above.

T minus 60 and counting... ;)

Michael
7516

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 6:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Michael Davidson wrote:

> This is totally doable in DB5. You want either a list view or the normal
> 1-week view. The 1-week view is even better than the one you describe -
> the date is right-justified so that it can fit on the same line as an
> item. Mine looks roughly like this:

	Looking at the screenshots page of DateBk5.com I see..

Week view; two columns. That view is .. cluttered. I don't want two
columns.. if I can get a 1 column view it might be okay, but I really
dislike the dates being in the bottom right.. that means that you see:

http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-week2.gif

> Thing
> Thing
> Thing Dt
> --------
> Thing
> Thing Dt

	This is generally a UI nono, snice you see thing, then thing, then
the date. So you see the date *after* the items you read. Usualyl you're
wanting to skip along by date in your eyes, so you se the date last, and
scan back up to read the content. Thast backwards.

	List view is here:
http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-list.gif

	It has the nasty waste I've mentioned..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7517

From: Michael Davidson  <mdavids+yahoo@b...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18  2002, Jeff Mitchell (support@s...) wrote:
> 
> Week view; two columns. That view is .. cluttered. I don't want two
> columns.. if I can get a 1 column view it might be okay, but I really
> dislike the dates being in the bottom right.. that means that you see:

The 1/2 week view is one column. And it's not cluttered at all!

> > Thing
> > Thing
> > Thing Dt
> > --------
> > Thing
> > Thing Dt
> 
> 	This is generally a UI nono, snice you see thing, then thing, then
> the date. So you see the date *after* the items you read. Usualyl you're

The palm screen is so small that it's really not an issue. You see the
date and the things all at once, or you train yourself to look at the
date. 

> 	List view is here:
> http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-list.gif
> 	It has the nasty waste I've mentioned..

It looks clean and uncluttered to me! I'm beginning to feel like you have
something strange against DB5... ;)

Michael
7518

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
So isn't this what you're looking for:

http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?&prodID=39458

Date at top, list below, hi-res+. What else are you looking fo?

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Dated note taking?                  
                    10/18/2002                                                                                     
                    01:45 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Michael Davidson wrote:

> This is totally doable in DB5. You want either a list view or the normal
> 1-week view. The 1-week view is even better than the one you describe -
> the date is right-justified so that it can fit on the same line as an
> item. Mine looks roughly like this:

           Looking at the screenshots page of DateBk5.com I see..

Week view; two columns. That view is .. cluttered. I don't want two
columns.. if I can get a 1 column view it might be okay, but I really
dislike the dates being in the bottom right.. that means that you see:

http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-week2.gif

> Thing
> Thing
> Thing Dt
> --------
> Thing
> Thing Dt

           This is generally a UI nono, snice you see thing, then thing,
then
the date. So you see the date *after* the items you read. Usualyl you're
wanting to skip along by date in your eyes, so you se the date last, and
scan back up to read the content. Thast backwards.

           List view is here:
http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-list.gif

           It has the nasty waste I've mentioned..

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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7519

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 smasters@a... wrote:

> So isn't this what you're looking for:
> 
> http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?&prodID=39458
> 
> Date at top, list below, hi-res+. What else are you looking fo?

	Looks interesting. I prefer one column, but we'll see what hires
looks like. I'll take a look. Thanks ;)

	I went a registered DB5 anyway, just waiting for a trial key until
the real key comes. I've been meaning to, since anythign to help gorillas
is cool :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7520

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Michael Davidson wrote:

> > Week view; two columns. That view is .. cluttered. I don't want two
> > columns.. if I can get a 1 column view it might be okay, but I really
> > dislike the dates being in the bottom right.. that means that you see:
> 
> The 1/2 week view is one column. And it's not cluttered at all!

	But shows you 1/2 a week instead of one week.

	I'd liek it to show 1 whole week, including undated todos, all in
a long scrolling list. ie: If one day take sup 10 lines, and trhe next is
3 lines, thats cool. Using grids like DB5 is prone to is very
wasteful.. an empty day or day with 1 item take sup as much room as a day
with 10 items, excep ttrh day with 10 items you probably can't see them
all.

	It needs to be the lsit view, but better. Efficient. Its not quite
right in any of the views :)

	(I know I know, being hard on DB5 is unpopular, but you gotta
admit I'm right ;)

> > > Thing Dt
> > > --------
> > > Thing
> > > Thing Dt
> > 
> > 	This is generally a UI nono, snice you see thing, then thing, then
> > the date. So you see the date *after* the items you read. Usualyl you're
> 
> The palm screen is so small that it's really not an issue. You see the
> date and the things all at once, or you train yourself to look at the
> date. 

	I don't see any screenshots of Action Names list view, but it is
vastly superior. Sadly, its the onyl feature I need out of a dateboko app,
so I want DB5 to have it or I can't switch to DB5 withotu slownig msyelf
down and breaking my existing hapyp little process :)

	ie:

	o One column
	o List view; scroll list up and down
	o Not little same-sized panels for each day.. that makes it so you
must scroll eachlittle panel to see whats on in a given day
	o Undated todos must be visible in the list.. top or bottom
	o Efficient sue of space; no wastnig a quarter of each line for
dates.

> > 	List view is here:
> > http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-list.gif
> > 	It has the nasty waste I've mentioned..
> 
> It looks clean and uncluttered to me! I'm beginning to feel like you have
> something strange against DB5... ;)

	Uncluttered? Do you see how every line has a date? thats 100%
wasted space.. if those items all happen to be on the same day. Thats *bad
design* in every textbook you'll find :) CESD doesn't usualyl make goofy
mistakes, but thats one of them.. it has to be an option: If you tend to
have one item per day, its good. Very very few of people have 1 thign
going on each day :)

	No, I'm 100% all for DB5, and I really resent Iambic for their
stunts. But they got list views just right :) I'm a develoepr and
perfectionisty as you know.. and I have to have it *right* :)

	As I've said before.. if DB5 had a good lsit view, I'd switch in a
second :)  So far my onyl alternative is to build my own simpel list view,
since I cannto mroally use Iambic stuff unless I frogive them, and I've
not thought about that yet. ut I have hopes they learned their lesson :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7521

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Yes, you are right! I like your idea, maybe add toolbar to jump to each day
of the week and the ability to add new ToDo's and appointments. Make it
HiRes+, and I'll bet you've got another big seller on your hands. I'll buy
one!

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Dated note taking?                  
                    10/18/2002                                                                                     
                    02:32 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Michael Davidson wrote:

> > Week view; two columns. That view is .. cluttered. I don't want two
> > columns.. if I can get a 1 column view it might be okay, but I really
> > dislike the dates being in the bottom right.. that means that you see:
>
> The 1/2 week view is one column. And it's not cluttered at all!

           But shows you 1/2 a week instead of one week.

           I'd liek it to show 1 whole week, including undated todos, all
in
a long scrolling list. ie: If one day take sup 10 lines, and trhe next is
3 lines, thats cool. Using grids like DB5 is prone to is very
wasteful.. an empty day or day with 1 item take sup as much room as a day
with 10 items, excep ttrh day with 10 items you probably can't see them
all.

           It needs to be the lsit view, but better. Efficient. Its not
quite
right in any of the views :)

           (I know I know, being hard on DB5 is unpopular, but you gotta
admit I'm right ;)

> > > Thing Dt
> > > --------
> > > Thing
> > > Thing Dt
> >
> >        This is generally a UI nono, snice you see thing, then thing,
then
> > the date. So you see the date *after* the items you read. Usualyl
you're
>
> The palm screen is so small that it's really not an issue. You see the
> date and the things all at once, or you train yourself to look at the
> date.

           I don't see any screenshots of Action Names list view, but it is
vastly superior. Sadly, its the onyl feature I need out of a dateboko app,
so I want DB5 to have it or I can't switch to DB5 withotu slownig msyelf
down and breaking my existing hapyp little process :)

           ie:

           o One column
           o List view; scroll list up and down
           o Not little same-sized panels for each day.. that makes it so
you
must scroll eachlittle panel to see whats on in a given day
           o Undated todos must be visible in the list.. top or bottom
           o Efficient sue of space; no wastnig a quarter of each line for
dates.

> >        List view is here:
> > http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-list.gif
> >        It has the nasty waste I've mentioned..
>
> It looks clean and uncluttered to me! I'm beginning to feel like you have
> something strange against DB5... ;)

           Uncluttered? Do you see how every line has a date? thats 100%
wasted space.. if those items all happen to be on the same day. Thats *bad
design* in every textbook you'll find :) CESD doesn't usualyl make goofy
mistakes, but thats one of them.. it has to be an option: If you tend to
have one item per day, its good. Very very few of people have 1 thign
going on each day :)

           No, I'm 100% all for DB5, and I really resent Iambic for their
stunts. But they got list views just right :) I'm a develoepr and
perfectionisty as you know.. and I have to have it *right* :)

           As I've said before.. if DB5 had a good lsit view, I'd switch in
a
second :)  So far my onyl alternative is to build my own simpel list view,
since I cannto mroally use Iambic stuff unless I frogive them, and I've
not thought about that yet. ut I have hopes they learned their lesson :/

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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7522

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Actually, that .gif of the list view can be modified a bit, you can
take out the weekday, and just show the date, that'll save a few
pixels. admittedly it doesn't solve everything, but hey.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	o One column
> 	o List view; scroll list up and down
> 	o Not little same-sized panels for each day.. that makes it so you
> must scroll eachlittle panel to see whats on in a given day
> 	o Undated todos must be visible in the list.. top or bottom
> 	o Efficient sue of space; no wastnig a quarter of each line for
> dates.
> 
> > > 	List view is here:
> > > http://www.datebk5.com/palmm505-list.gif
> > > 	It has the nasty waste I've mentioned..
7523

From: pfieldho_99  <pfieldho_99@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:42pm
Subject: Difficulty with Custom Sync settings

 
Jeff,
I have been playing around with the Beta. Had some difficulty today 
with my address book causing a fatal error and so ended up restoring 
from my backup module (running Prism - Palm OS v. 3.5.2H15)
After restoring from my module I attempted to sync with the desktop 
on "Synchronize - Desktop item overwrites handheld" but that setting 
won't stick. I click the radio buttons and click on "Done" but 
nothing changes. I've tried setting the above custom sync as default 
but it still won't stick. 

So I tried opening the lists that I needed to update, and the updated 
versions come up on the desktop, and "send to handheld". That isn't 
working. 

Any thoughts on this.

I'm currently on a W2K machine at work with WinME at home.

Paul
7524

From: lilmagnus  <amagner@m...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:57pm
Subject: PHOTO: Agendus Week List View in Photos Section

 
Since Jeff's been talking about how much better Agendus' week list 
view utilizes the screen, I've taken the liberty of uploading a snap 
of it to the photos section on this group. Just so we all get an idea 
of what Jeff likes. ;-)

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/lst

Cheers,
Tony
7525

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell@p...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Unfortunately, CESD is of the opposite opinion of this, so unless he is persuaded otherwise (which has happened before) it may stay this way for quite some time. :(  I think what's needed in Datebk5 is perhaps yet another view


>	DB5 has a list view for the week. But its badly designed:
>
>	It looks ilke this:
>
>05/05	Thing
>.	Thing
>05/06	Thnig
>.	Thing
>.	Thing
>
>	So there is space reserved on every line for recurring data.. the
>date. So you lose 1/4 of your valued screen territory for data that does
>nto change. This is generally a cardinal sin, since most people have
>multiple things per day (otherwise it'd onyl need to show 5 items,
>right? :)
>
>	It shoudl be:
>
>--- Date ---
>Thing
>Thing
>--- Date ---
>Thing
>Thing
>Thing


_____________________________________________________________
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7526

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:36pm
Subject: Re: PHOTO: Agendus Week List View in Photos Section

 
Even more ammunition for Jeff to write his own. Only my opinion, but that
is way too busy for me.



                                                                                                                   
                    "lilmagnus"                                                                                    
                    <amagner@m...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    albox.com>           cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     [shadow-discuss] PHOTO: Agendus Week List View in Photos     
                    10/18/2002           Section                                                                   
                    03:57 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




Since Jeff's been talking about how much better Agendus' week list
view utilizes the screen, I've taken the liberty of uploading a snap
of it to the photos section on this group. Just so we all get an idea
of what Jeff likes. ;-)

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/lst

Cheers,
Tony



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
7527

From: pfieldho_99  <pfieldho_99@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 9:59pm
Subject: FollowUp: Difficulty with Custom Sync settings

 
Well I think I found the answer and it will probably not be relevant 
for the great majority of users. I think it has to do with the fact 
that my work computer (Win2k) requires administrator privileges to 
install some software. I didn't have that when I installed the Beta, 
on the other hand I was able to install without any sign of a problem 
during the install itself. 

As I went through this thing I tried to uninstall ShadowPlan and at 
that point got a message that the uninstall was not successful. This 
clued me in to the problem. I called out Information Systems folks, 
got the privileges, uninstalled, reinstalled, and now things are 95% 
good. I was able to copy over all HH files from the Desktop. The only 
unfortunate thing is that it looks like all files have been converted 
to checklists -- and I have most of mine set up as notes. 

I did re-edit one lists preferences to note and those individual 
items that I had IDed as checklists remained so while all others 
reverted to note. Not too bad!!!

So I'm off to the races again. Hope no one else had these problems. 
Maybe this info will be helpful if they do.

Paul
7528

From: tljr_2000  <tlj1@c...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:12pm
Subject: Newbie Question

 
Sorry for the dumb question ... but what is GTD that I keep seeing 
references to?
7529

From: karjar358  <karjar@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:30pm
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
I have found that by putting a project name in my address book under 
categories Projects, I can then use Daynotez, and use the project name 
for contact name in Daynotez. This lets me filter by contact name 
(project) and I can see all my notes, dated and timed, associated with 
that Project (of course project could be anything). I also use Datebk5 
link to that contact name for TODO and appointments, which logs 
activities there. Then with the Project TLI in Shadow, I link it to 
the project name in the address book, quick way to check in the 
contact log which activities were done (for those times where brain 
freeze happens). I use Slap to enter single step activities into the 
datebk, ToDo, addresses, and memos. It actually is all starting to 
come together finally, after many iterations. (Now if we just had that 
toggle word wrap feature...hehe)
jeff

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I'm curious what is out there for purposes of dated note
> taking; ie: Datebook isn't good at it. Shadow is good for all forms 
of
> note taking, but I wonder what else is in this field.. Shadow is 
more a
> generalist after all and I'm curious what other applications are 
doing in
> this arena. Perhaps Shadow has some things to pick up from these 
guys, or
> perhaps Shadow needs to link to these guys? Since I know nothign of
> whatevers out there, I've become curious :)
> 
> 	I've heard only of DayNotez; I ran into someone today who was
> raving about it. Does anyone use it? Does it fit into GTD and Shadow 
Plan
> systems well? 
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7530

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 11:35pm
Subject: RE: Newbie Question

 
Getting Things Done, by David Allen. Super organizational system that
really helps!

Http://www.gettingthingsdone.com, and of course there's a book (that's
where I would start). If you like what you see, sign up for the GTD_Palm
Yahoogroup and join all the rest of us!

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: tljr_2000 [mailto:tlj1@c...] 
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 5:12 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Newbie Question

Sorry for the dumb question ... but what is GTD that I keep seeing 
references to?
7531

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 11:45pm
Subject: Whats on my PDA?

 
You know, I started this page a couple years back and kept it
pseudo up to date. I went through and made it a little more up to date and
thought maybe you guys would be amused.

	Don't mind the typos or irreverent frame of mind. It was always
written at 3am, you know how it is :)

http://www.skeleton.org/skeezix/textfiles/onpda.html

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7532

From: David Bengtson  <dbengtson@p...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 11:48pm
Subject: Re: Importing from Bonsai?

 
There is a desk-top export for Bonsai, and a sample is listed Below.
You can also write you own export filter to export to whatever you
want. Below the HTML one is an XML file that some wrote and posted at
the Natara web site. 


On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:39:42 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, David  Bengtson wrote:
>
>> Can anyone suggest a good way to import a couple of large (300 items
>> or so) outlines from Bonsai? I'd prefer to keep as many attributes as
>> possible. These outlines are too bid for the memo pad. 
>
>	Can you get a desktop-side export? What does it look like?
>
>		jeff


************************************

<html>
<head>
<title>Outline1</title>
</head>
<body>
<div align="center"><h1>Outline1</h1></div>
<table width=100% cellpadding="1">
<tr bgcolor="#FF8888" align="center"><td></td></tr>
<tr><td><div style="margin-left:0pt">To-Do Item <small><i><a
href="#note1">note 1</a></i></small></div></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><div style="margin-left:12pt">Level 2 To-do Item <small><i><a
href="#note2">note 2</a></i></small></div></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><div style="margin-left:24pt">Level 3 To-Do Item <small><i><a
href="#note3">note 3</a></i></small></div></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><div style="margin-left:0pt">Simple list item <small><i><a
href="#note4">note 4</a></i></small></div></td>
</tr>
<tr><td><div style="margin-left:0pt">Task Item <small><i><a
href="#note5">note 5</a></i></small></div></td>
</tr>
</table>
<br><br><A NAME="note1"><b>Note
1:</b></A><br><small><i>Note</i></small>
<br><br><A NAME="note2"><b>Note 2:</b></A><br><small><i>Note for Level
2 To-Do Item
<BR></i></small>
<br><br><A NAME="note3"><b>Note 3:</b></A><br><small><i>Note for Level
3 To-Do. </i></small>
<br><br><A NAME="note4"><b>Note 4:</b></A><br><small><i>Note for
Simple List Item</i></small>
<br><br><A NAME="note5"><b>Note 5:</b></A><br><small><i>Note for Task
Item, 14 Percent done/ </i></small>
</body>
</html>
*************************************************

  <?xml version="1.0" standalone="yes" ?> 
- <Outline Title="Outline1" Numbering="1"
Categories="Unfiled,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,">
- <Item UniqueId="151976467" Index="0" Level="0" Type="1"
PercentComplete="0" NumericStartDate="0" NumericDueDate="0"
NumericCompletedDate="0" StartDate="" DueDate="" CompletedDate=""
Priority="1" Category="Unfiled">
  To-Do Item 
- <Item UniqueId="151976675" Index="1" Level="1" Type="1"
PercentComplete="0" NumericStartDate="0" NumericDueDate="0"
NumericCompletedDate="0" StartDate="" DueDate="" CompletedDate=""
Priority="1" Category="Unfiled">
  Level 2 To-do Item 
  <Item UniqueId="151976696" Index="2" Level="2" Type="1"
PercentComplete="0" NumericStartDate="0" NumericDueDate="0"
NumericCompletedDate="0" StartDate="" DueDate="" CompletedDate=""
Priority="1" Category="Unfiled">Level 3 To-Do Item</Item> 
  </Item>
  </Item>
  <Item UniqueId="151976561" Index="3" Level="0" Type="0"
PercentComplete="" NumericStartDate="" NumericDueDate=""
NumericCompletedDate="" StartDate="" DueDate="" CompletedDate=""
Priority="1" Category="Unfiled">Simple list item</Item> 
  <Item UniqueId="151976571" Index="4" Level="0" Type="2"
PercentComplete="14" NumericStartDate="0" NumericDueDate="0"
NumericCompletedDate="0" StartDate="" DueDate="" CompletedDate=""
Priority="1" Category="Unfiled">Task Item</Item> 
  </Outline>
7533

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 0:11am
Subject: Re: Difficulty with Custom Sync settings

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, pfieldho_99 wrote:

> I have been playing around with the Beta. Had some difficulty today
> with my address book causing a fatal error and so ended up restoring
> from my backup module (running Prism - Palm OS v. 3.5.2H15) After
> restoring from my module I attempted to sync with the desktop on
> "Synchronize - Desktop item overwrites handheld" but that setting
> won't stick. I click the radio buttons and click on "Done" but nothing
> changes. I've tried setting the above custom sync as default but it
> still won't stick.

	You mean you set up your Hotsync Custom settings, then hit Done,
and open it up again and the settings are lost? Where do they get reset
back to?

> So I tried opening the lists that I needed to update, and the updated
> versions come up on the desktop, and "send to handheld". That isn't
> working.

	Check the lastsync.txt or send it my way; is your desktop
registered?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7534

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 0:13am
Subject: Re: PHOTO: Agendus Week List View in Photos Section

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 smasters@a... wrote:

> Even more ammunition for Jeff to write his own. Only my opinion, but that
> is way too busy for me.

	I don't use icons, so its not busy for me. Just time and title
text.. not busy at all :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7535

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 0:15am
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Sorry for the non-shadow thread folks, but we gotta keep everyone
busy ;)

On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

> Unfortunately, CESD is of the opposite opinion of this, so unless he
> is persuaded otherwise (which has happened before) it may stay this
> way for quite some time. :( I think what's needed in Datebk5 is
> perhaps yet another view

	Was there a big debate over this or somesuch?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7536

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 0:17am
Subject: Re: Importing from Bonsai?

 
On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, David  Bengtson wrote:

> There is a desk-top export for Bonsai, and a sample is listed Below.
> You can also write you own export filter to export to whatever you
> want. Below the HTML one is an XML file that some wrote and posted at
> the Natara web site. 

	Hmm looks like a little work. It would be a trivial thing to get
your text into Shadow, but the other stuff could be a little work. Is text
enough?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7537

From: clieguy  <clieguy@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 1:02am
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Oh this is one of many debates in the DateBk5 group. CESD is as 
dedicated and motivated as you are Jeff.

Never a dull moment there either!!

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Sorry for the non-shadow thread folks, but we gotta keep 
everyone
> busy ;)
> 
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, CESD is of the opposite opinion of this, so unless 
he
> > is persuaded otherwise (which has happened before) it may stay 
this
> > way for quite some time. :( I think what's needed in Datebk5 is
> > perhaps yet another view
> 
> 	Was there a big debate over this or somesuch?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7538

From: Chris Harlepp  <charlepp@c...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 1:57am
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
I tried to duplicate your problem on my NR70U, and they all work, including the push jog dial to select an item...it selects the first entry visible at the top of the screen
Chris
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: gf_gollum 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 6:52 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1


  >       When nothing is selected, jog is page up/down. 
  Agreed - All OK

  > When an item is
  > selected, it is scroll selection 1 up/down. 
  Agreed - All OK

  > Push the jog dial to select an item, 
  Nah - not here

  > or go into details, etcx
  Agreed
  > Push Back to unselect or go back to file
  > listing. 
  Agreed

  I tried switching off all the Hacks. Still did the same thing. OK - Must be an NR70V thing. Not to worry.
  Graham



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7539

From: Chris Harlepp  <charlepp@c...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 3:09am
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
Jeff: I use DayNotez...it's not a bad program. Kinda replaces a paper day-planner... and you can search and organize your notes, date and time stamp them. Very stable conduit and DT application. It has several small apps that can import/export from various other standard OS programs; on the DT, it has a small app that embeds a link to itself in the Palm Desktop program. I don't know what GTD is, so I can't comment on that.
Chris
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 8:24 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Dated note taking?



        I'm curious what is out there for purposes of dated note
  taking; ie: Datebook isn't good at it. Shadow is good for all forms of
  note taking, but I wonder what else is in this field.. Shadow is more a
  generalist after all and I'm curious what other applications are doing in
  this arena. Perhaps Shadow has some things to pick up from these guys, or
  perhaps Shadow needs to link to these guys? Since I know nothign of
  whatevers out there, I've become curious :)

        I've heard only of DayNotez; I ran into someone today who was
  raving about it. Does anyone use it? Does it fit into GTD and Shadow Plan
  systems well? 

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7540

From: aschell98  <aschell@p...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 4:18am
Subject: Re: Dated note taking?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Sorry for the non-shadow thread folks, but we gotta keep 
everyone
> busy ;)
> 
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, CESD is of the opposite opinion of this, so unless 
he
> > is persuaded otherwise (which has happened before) it may stay 
this
> > way for quite some time. :( I think what's needed in Datebk5 is
> > perhaps yet another view
> 
> 	Was there a big debate over this or somesuch?
> 
> 		jeff
I hope I'm remembering correctly.  I believe his take on it is that 
number of appointments shown was more important than amount of text.  
I think the issue here is that the list view is much more than just a 
straight list of appointments.  When you use it for filtering, say 
showing a list of all birthdays etc. having a dividing line between 
each would really waste space in that context.  What I'd like to see 
him do is take the week view, specifically the 3 day view option and 
either change it or add one more, that shows everything for the day 
without the need to tap it like you do now.  Does that make sense?
7541

From: McMug  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 5:55am
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Rita" <rblanzan@i...> wrote:

> Bummer, I just bought a new computer with insufficient USB ports 
> I'm still waiting for hubby to install additional ones.  Looks like 
> I'll have to sacrifice the printer or something If I want to try it 
> out.  

I don't get it. If it is USB, it is hot plug. Just pull out the 
printer cable to do the hotsync, and plug it back afterwards. You 
don't even need to reboot windows.

and didn't your palm support the ancient ritual --- hotsync via COM 
port?
7542

From: Tom Curley  <tcurley@c...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 2:34am
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
I have used Afterburner hack to speed things up for quite a while now - 
very satisfied with performance & stability.

Tom

tsuchy wrote:

> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> From: "tsuchy" <tsuchy@y...>
> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:57:17 -0000
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Dated note taking?
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>> 	Ah, right. I'd forgotten about this DB5 feature. I still haven't
>> moved over to DB5 yet, I must confess, despite the amoral activities of
>> Agendusboys :/ (ie: When DB5 first came out, I tried it, and it was very
>> slow, and didn't have highres support that was useful for me. I fear
> these
>> are still the case, but I'll have ot giv it a try again). I'd really
>> rather use DB5, but it needs a good strong week list view :)
> 
> It was very slow the first time i tried it as well, but it seems to
> have gotten quicker; i don't know about highres, since i'm still on my
> VIIx.
>
7543

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 4:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dated note taking?

 
On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, aschell98 wrote:

> I hope I'm remembering correctly.  I believe his take on it is that 
> number of appointments shown was more important than amount of text.  
> I think the issue here is that the list view is much more than just a 
> straight list of appointments.  When you use it for filtering, say 
> showing a list of all birthdays etc. having a dividing line between 
> each would really waste space in that context.  What I'd like to see 
> him do is take the week view, specifically the 3 day view option and 
> either change it or add one more, that shows everything for the day 
> without the need to tap it like you do now.  Does that make sense? 

	In my book its pretty simple; through most of DB5 he is interested
in simple display.. the 3 day view has 3 equal sized boxes. The week view
has a bunch of boxes in 2 columns. This shows that he is either more
concerned with simple display work, or in achieving the stated 3-day
goal... however, is that the correct goal, or is the real goal to give you
a good view of whats going on in those 3 days? (subtly different)

	To me it is a sin to have 3 equal sized little boxes. If the top
day has a single item, it wastes all the space below it (in 3 day view
mode). Then the second day has only say 6 lines or whatever to show what
it is.. and if it has 10 items, you cannot get a good view without
scrolling it up and down. And what if theres nothign at all on the 3rd
day? So you end up with 1 item, a bunch of stuff you need to scroll int he
second spot, and empty wasted space at the bottom. So you've wasted 2/3 of
your screen display, when you could've seen it all were it listed properly
:/

	This makes the 3 day view virtually worthless, unless you have
only a few things going on each day... and I usually have at least 4 or 5
meetings a day, and a numebr of todos (like 2-10, depending what slid on
previous days). So none of the DB5 views are any good for me.. I must
always scroll around. In Agenuds (damn them to hell), I can just push the
datebook button, up comes list view, and see ti all. If I need to, I can
scroll down with one button push. Perfect. The rest of the app sucks for
me, but they got this right :)

	A better design would be to determine how much is going on each
day and size to fit. Then a pref to allow you to have scrolling within
each box if you insist on it, or show everything in a list and scroll the
whole list. My goal is to show you whats going on in the 3 days, and not
just fit into these 3 predefined boxes.

	Scrolling wiuthin each box I think is bad, since it doens't let
you get a complete view of a single day, ever. You always must scroll up
and down to see everything (in each of the 3 boxes!), and by then you've
lost view of whats going on in the other days.. thus rendering the whole
idea of the 3 day view into something that needs too much work -- if you
cannot just glance and see whats going on, I'll go to the next app.

	Every time I've looked at DB4 and DB5 I come back to this same
thing. I cannot use it, since it requires micromanaging these little
scrolling areas. 3 day view, week view.. tis all about squishing
everything into these little boxes instead of just showing me the info.

	The rest of the application is genius.. but these views are just
the opposite of what I believe in, which is making things suit the needs.
And maybe my needs differ from everyones, but thats nomatter.. they're my
needs, and the app doesn't fit them :) Perhaps working with saved views
and such would clear it up by making more specific views, but then I'd
still have to switch between a few views to see everything.. and I'm all
about what I can see at a glance. I've no time to muck arond with the
stylus.. I flip the lid, push one button and go to the meeting I see
listed. I can't scroll around.. I'm busy walking to the meeting :)

	I hate to say it, but I cannot use DB5 :(

	I really really wish I could, but it drives me nuts :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7544

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 5:11pm
Subject: DB5

 
OKay, that threads gotten tired hasn't it? You may not know, but
CESD and I are on pretty good terms. Hes a dude, and people have always
been comparing us so I started talking to the guy a year or two back. He
offered some very good advice for dealing with all these evil companies
legally and whatnot, too, and he managed to dodge getting screwed by one
of the companies that screwed me ;)  I think I'll just write up my ideas
and send 'em his way. DB5 is one of the best apps around, I just think
it'd be better with some tweaks (see, just like you guys are to me, I too
am a user to someone else, with endless ideas and requests ;)

	So lets not worry about list view debating; I checked the DB5
group and damn, people been debating about that for a long long time
already :)  But maybe I'll write my own list view ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7545

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: DB5

 
isn't the list view in DB5 what you are looking for?  it condenses the day to fit the number of entries.  if you have few entries, more days are displayed, more entries gets fewer days.  on options you can decide whether you want to see all appointments, to do items, or both, etc.  there is some wasted space to the left under the date, but with the tiny font for hi res+ you get lots shown.  i had the same complaints as you Jeff, and thus was going back and forth.  but the list view seems to do what you want the 3 day and week view to do.  check it out.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 8:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Dated note taking?


  On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, aschell98 wrote:

  > I hope I'm remembering correctly.  I believe his take on it is that 
  > number of appointments shown was more important than amount of text.  
  > I think the issue here is that the list view is much more than just a 
  > straight list of appointments.  When you use it for filtering, say 
  > showing a list of all birthdays etc. having a dividing line between 
  > each would really waste space in that context.  What I'd like to see 
  > him do is take the week view, specifically the 3 day view option and 
  > either change it or add one more, that shows everything for the day 
  > without the need to tap it like you do now.  Does that make sense? 

        In my book its pretty simple; through most of DB5 he is interested
  in simple display.. the 3 day view has 3 equal sized boxes. The week view
  has a bunch of boxes in 2 columns. This shows that he is either more
  concerned with simple display work, or in achieving the stated 3-day
  goal... however, is that the correct goal, or is the real goal to give you
  a good view of whats going on in those 3 days? (subtly different)

        To me it is a sin to have 3 equal sized little boxes. If the top
  day has a single item, it wastes all the space below it (in 3 day view
  mode). Then the second day has only say 6 lines or whatever to show what
  it is.. and if it has 10 items, you cannot get a good view without
  scrolling it up and down. And what if theres nothign at all on the 3rd
  day? So you end up with 1 item, a bunch of stuff you need to scroll int he
  second spot, and empty wasted space at the bottom. So you've wasted 2/3 of
  your screen display, when you could've seen it all were it listed properly
  :/

        This makes the 3 day view virtually worthless, unless you have
  only a few things going on each day... and I usually have at least 4 or 5
  meetings a day, and a numebr of todos (like 2-10, depending what slid on
  previous days). So none of the DB5 views are any good for me.. I must
  always scroll around. In Agenuds (damn them to hell), I can just push the
  datebook button, up comes list view, and see ti all. If I need to, I can
  scroll down with one button push. Perfect. The rest of the app sucks for
  me, but they got this right :)

        A better design would be to determine how much is going on each
  day and size to fit. Then a pref to allow you to have scrolling within
  each box if you insist on it, or show everything in a list and scroll the
  whole list. My goal is to show you whats going on in the 3 days, and not
  just fit into these 3 predefined boxes.

        Scrolling wiuthin each box I think is bad, since it doens't let
  you get a complete view of a single day, ever. You always must scroll up
  and down to see everything (in each of the 3 boxes!), and by then you've
  lost view of whats going on in the other days.. thus rendering the whole
  idea of the 3 day view into something that needs too much work -- if you
  cannot just glance and see whats going on, I'll go to the next app.

        Every time I've looked at DB4 and DB5 I come back to this same
  thing. I cannot use it, since it requires micromanaging these little
  scrolling areas. 3 day view, week view.. tis all about squishing
  everything into these little boxes instead of just showing me the info.

        The rest of the application is genius.. but these views are just
  the opposite of what I believe in, which is making things suit the needs.
  And maybe my needs differ from everyones, but thats nomatter.. they're my
  needs, and the app doesn't fit them :) Perhaps working with saved views
  and such would clear it up by making more specific views, but then I'd
  still have to switch between a few views to see everything.. and I'm all
  about what I can see at a glance. I've no time to muck arond with the
  stylus.. I flip the lid, push one button and go to the meeting I see
  listed. I can't scroll around.. I'm busy walking to the meeting :)

        I hate to say it, but I cannot use DB5 :(

        I really really wish I could, but it drives me nuts :)

              jeff




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7546

From: tljr_2000  <tlj1@c...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 7:00pm
Subject: Re: DB5

 
Jeff - I'm wondering the same thing as Kevin.  Under "Options", 
within the view that Kevin is describing, you can also choose to 
show 'time' and 'icon'.  And even with small font (vs. tiny font), 
you get a lot on the screen.  I know we should put the topic to rest, 
but I'm curious as to whether or not this accomplishes (or at least 
somewhat accomplishes) your ojectives.

Todd

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...> wrote:
> isn't the list view in DB5 what you are looking for?  it condenses 
the day to fit the number of entries.  if you have few entries, more 
days are displayed, more entries gets fewer days.  on options you can 
decide whether you want to see all appointments, to do items, or 
both, etc.  there is some wasted space to the left under the date, 
but with the tiny font for hi res+ you get lots shown.  i had the 
same complaints as you Jeff, and thus was going back and forth.  but 
the list view seems to do what you want the 3 day and week view to 
do.  check it out.
> Kevin
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Jeff Mitchell 
>   To: shadow-discuss@y... 
>   Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 8:41 AM
>   Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Dated note taking?
> 
> 
>   On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, aschell98 wrote:
> 
>   > I hope I'm remembering correctly.  I believe his take on it is 
that 
>   > number of appointments shown was more important than amount of 
text.  
>   > I think the issue here is that the list view is much more than 
just a 
>   > straight list of appointments.  When you use it for filtering, 
say 
>   > showing a list of all birthdays etc. having a dividing line 
between 
>   > each would really waste space in that context.  What I'd like 
to see 
>   > him do is take the week view, specifically the 3 day view 
option and 
>   > either change it or add one more, that shows everything for the 
day 
>   > without the need to tap it like you do now.  Does that make 
sense? 
> 
>         In my book its pretty simple; through most of DB5 he is 
interested
>   in simple display.. the 3 day view has 3 equal sized boxes. The 
week view
>   has a bunch of boxes in 2 columns. This shows that he is either 
more
>   concerned with simple display work, or in achieving the stated 3-
day
>   goal... however, is that the correct goal, or is the real goal to 
give you
>   a good view of whats going on in those 3 days? (subtly different)
> 
>         To me it is a sin to have 3 equal sized little boxes. If 
the top
>   day has a single item, it wastes all the space below it (in 3 day 
view
>   mode). Then the second day has only say 6 lines or whatever to 
show what
>   it is.. and if it has 10 items, you cannot get a good view without
>   scrolling it up and down. And what if theres nothign at all on 
the 3rd
>   day? So you end up with 1 item, a bunch of stuff you need to 
scroll int he
>   second spot, and empty wasted space at the bottom. So you've 
wasted 2/3 of
>   your screen display, when you could've seen it all were it listed 
properly
>   :/
> 
>         This makes the 3 day view virtually worthless, unless you 
have
>   only a few things going on each day... and I usually have at 
least 4 or 5
>   meetings a day, and a numebr of todos (like 2-10, depending what 
slid on
>   previous days). So none of the DB5 views are any good for me.. I 
must
>   always scroll around. In Agenuds (damn them to hell), I can just 
push the
>   datebook button, up comes list view, and see ti all. If I need 
to, I can
>   scroll down with one button push. Perfect. The rest of the app 
sucks for
>   me, but they got this right :)
> 
>         A better design would be to determine how much is going on 
each
>   day and size to fit. Then a pref to allow you to have scrolling 
within
>   each box if you insist on it, or show everything in a list and 
scroll the
>   whole list. My goal is to show you whats going on in the 3 days, 
and not
>   just fit into these 3 predefined boxes.
> 
>         Scrolling wiuthin each box I think is bad, since it doens't 
let
>   you get a complete view of a single day, ever. You always must 
scroll up
>   and down to see everything (in each of the 3 boxes!), and by then 
you've
>   lost view of whats going on in the other days.. thus rendering 
the whole
>   idea of the 3 day view into something that needs too much work -- 
if you
>   cannot just glance and see whats going on, I'll go to the next 
app.
> 
>         Every time I've looked at DB4 and DB5 I come back to this 
same
>   thing. I cannot use it, since it requires micromanaging these 
little
>   scrolling areas. 3 day view, week view.. tis all about squishing
>   everything into these little boxes instead of just showing me the 
info.
> 
>         The rest of the application is genius.. but these views are 
just
>   the opposite of what I believe in, which is making things suit 
the needs.
>   And maybe my needs differ from everyones, but thats nomatter.. 
they're my
>   needs, and the app doesn't fit them :) Perhaps working with saved 
views
>   and such would clear it up by making more specific views, but 
then I'd
>   still have to switch between a few views to see everything.. and 
I'm all
>   about what I can see at a glance. I've no time to muck arond with 
the
>   stylus.. I flip the lid, push one button and go to the meeting I 
see
>   listed. I can't scroll around.. I'm busy walking to the meeting :)
> 
>         I hate to say it, but I cannot use DB5 :(
> 
>         I really really wish I could, but it drives me nuts :)
> 
>               jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7547

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 7:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: DB5

 
On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> isn't the list view in DB5 what you are looking for?  it condenses the
> day to fit the number of entries.  if you have few entries, more days
> are displayed, more entries gets fewer days.  on options you can
> decide whether you want to see all appointments, to do items, or both,
> etc.  there is some wasted space to the left under the date, but with
> the tiny font for hi res+ you get lots shown.  i had the same
> complaints as you Jeff, and thus was going back and forth.  but the
> list view seems to do what you want the 3 day and week view to do.  
> check it out.

	Its that wasted space; it just bugs the hell out of me ;) (Yep,
that much). AN's just *looks* so much better, and I've registered both, so
I'm sadly stickign with AN until I can get somethign else I can deal with.
I'm really wanting to jump ship from AN, but can't cripple my workflow
just yet :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7548

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 8:08pm
Subject: beta question for those with crash-on-exit

 
Only for those using the 2.6 beta 1.

	For those who had the application report a crash when you close
it.. can you verify the following:

	o) If you've closed all subwindows (so just the Shadow window is
available), do you get a crash report? Or does it only crash when
subwindow is open?

	o) If it only crashes when subwindow is open, does the crash only
occur if you have a right hand detail panel open? (ie: If you click back
on the filename at the very top of the left panel, so the detail panel
becomes all empty does it now nolonger crash?)

	o) If you use File -> Quit in the Shadow window, does it crash?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7549

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: DB5

 
I know this is a bit off topic, but since you use AN regularly Jeff, here is my question (i'm registered for both too but went the Dbk5 route):  Is there a way in AN (hate the name Agendus too) to show ONLY the appointments in the day view, getting rid of the divided screen so my whole display is only appointments?  I like how in Dbk I can show only appointments, then switch to a different screen for on to do items.  A way to do that in AN without having to tap it down every time i open the day view?  Thanks, and this will be my last email on this stuff too.  : )
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: DB5


  On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

  > isn't the list view in DB5 what you are looking for?  it condenses the
  > day to fit the number of entries.  if you have few entries, more days
  > are displayed, more entries gets fewer days.  on options you can
  > decide whether you want to see all appointments, to do items, or both,
  > etc.  there is some wasted space to the left under the date, but with
  > the tiny font for hi res+ you get lots shown.  i had the same
  > complaints as you Jeff, and thus was going back and forth.  but the
  > list view seems to do what you want the 3 day and week view to do.  
  > check it out.

        Its that wasted space; it just bugs the hell out of me ;) (Yep,
  that much). AN's just *looks* so much better, and I've registered both, so
  I'm sadly stickign with AN until I can get somethign else I can deal with.
  I'm really wanting to jump ship from AN, but can't cripple my workflow
  just yet :)

              jeff




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7550

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 10:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: DB5

 
On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> I know this is a bit off topic, but since you use AN regularly Jeff,
> here is my question (i'm registered for both too but went the Dbk5
> route):  Is there a way in AN (hate the name Agendus too) to show ONLY
> the appointments in the day view, getting rid of the divided screen so
> my whole display is only appointments?  I like how in Dbk I can show
> only appointments, then switch to a different screen for on to do
> items.  A way to do that in AN without having to tap it down every
> time i open the day view?  Thanks, and this will be my last email on
> this stuff too.  : )

	Off the top of my head, I dunno. I only use the list view :) Day
views seem pointless to me since the list view includes the day view, but
with multiple days :) *shrug* (See, I'm not much of a datebook application
user ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7551

From: Larry King  <larryking23@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: DB5

 
Ok, we are all off topic!
Kevin,  I just switched from AN (I hate Agendus name too!) to B5, so if I recall correctly, at the bottom right corner there is a button with triangle (mode button), tap it to select different formats to view. You can view a single agenda view(list) or a split agenda view.
Larry
 Kevin Giberson <kevin@g...> wrote:I know this is a bit off topic, but since you use AN regularly Jeff, here is my question (i'm registered for both too but went the Dbk5 route): Is there a way in AN (hate the name Agendus too) to show ONLY the appointments in the day view, getting rid of the divided screen so my whole display is only appointments? I like how in Dbk I can show only appointments, then switch to a different screen for on to do items. A way to do that in AN without having to tap it down every time i open the day view? Thanks, and this will be my last email on this stuff too. : )
Kevin


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7552

From: harper2012  <bc1223@e...>
Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:56pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Improvements

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

<much snippage about a large array of prospective desktop 
improvements---go Jeff! >

>  I may likely offer a simple print method where you can just pick 
some
> options (which columns, what overall print srtyle, etc), and then 
allow
> oyu
 to make your own templates ot further customize. 
> 
This would be great....I'd love to use Shadow as my "See! Look 
what I've accomplished!" list to show my boss, for completed 
tasks. It would also need to be my "See *when* I accomplished 
it" list. 

> 	I think I'll add some import/export to basic CSV files, to make it
> easier to work with MSProject and MSWord and MSExcel type 
files.
> 

And *this* might resolve the whole "See!" list issue right here. If I 
could get my list of completed work tasks into a nice Excel or 
Word file, I could just email it to the head honcho.

Also, being able to choose which categories to export out to the 
.csv  file (or whether "completed" vs. "not completed" items are 
exported, etc.) would be nice too.

Anyhow, just wanted to chime and provide some .csv-export 
cheerleading....hope it's not an awfully hard thing to implement. 

Thanks for all of your work, Jeff!

Best regards,

Beth Cunningham

(P.S. I'm a Mac user, too, so of course this means I'm also 
keeping an eye out for Mac desktop news! But in the meantime 
I'll just keep firing up the Shadow desktop app on my work PC 
instead.)
7553

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 0:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Improvements

 
On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, harper2012 wrote:

> (P.S. I'm a Mac user, too, so of course this means I'm also keeping an
> eye out for Mac desktop news! But in the meantime I'll just keep
> firing up the Shadow desktop app on my work PC instead.)

	Did I post the screenshot for the pre-pre-pre-Mac Alpha?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7554

From: Guillermo Cremerius  <guillermo@c...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 1:00pm
Subject: Re: beta question for those with crash-on-exit

 
Jeff,

1- It only crashes when I don't close the all subwindows (File->Quit or
X).

2- It doesn't crash if I have the File Name selected on the left side
panel, otherwise it does.

This is on a Win ME machine...

Hope this helps.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Cc: 
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002, 6:08:11 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] beta question for those with crash-on-exit


>         Only for those using the 2.6 beta 1.

>         For those who had the application report a crash when you close
> it.. can you verify the following:

>         o) If you've closed all subwindows (so just the Shadow window is
> available), do you get a crash report? Or does it only crash when
> subwindow is open?

>         o) If it only crashes when subwindow is open, does the crash only
> occur if you have a right hand detail panel open? (ie: If you click back
> on the filename at the very top of the left panel, so the detail panel
> becomes all empty does it now nolonger crash?)

>         o) If you use File -> Quit in the Shadow window, does it crash?

>                 jeff


-- 
--Guillermo Cremerius------------------------------
7555

From: paulbcf  <ext555@p...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 3:37pm
Subject: Re: DB5 (agenda view in agendus)

 
I've registered both of them also--

You can show just appts or to-dos in the agenda view of agendus.
Just tap the arrow beside the dot in the center line and you can 
make the screen go all appts or all todos. 

when I was using it --it would stay that way until you changed it 
again..

hope that helps--

Paul 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:
> 
> > I know this is a bit off topic, but since you use AN regularly 
Jeff,
> > here is my question (i'm registered for both too but went the 
Dbk5
> > route):  Is there a way in AN (hate the name Agendus too) to 
show ONLY
> > the appointments in the day view, getting rid of the divided 
screen so
> > my whole display is only appointments?  I like how in Dbk I can 
show
> > only appointments, then switch to a different screen for on to do
> > items.  A way to do that in AN without having to tap it down 
every
> > time i open the day view?  Thanks, and this will be my last 
email on
> > this stuff too.  : )
> 
> 	Off the top of my head, I dunno. I only use the list view :) 
Day
> views seem pointless to me since the list view includes the day 
view, but
> with multiple days :) *shrug* (See, I'm not much of a datebook 
application
> user ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7556

From: wa2zeg  <johnrieley@a...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:25pm
Subject: Desktop complaints- delete color

 
I have one very minor complaint about the desktop. A deleted item is 
given a text-block color of light purple or pink. I have poor vision 
and find it hard to see on my laptop. I would love a darker color for 
deleted items. Otherwise, an excellent HH and desktop system. My 
supervisory work is much enhanced; I track worker's tasks, their due 
dates, and paperwork flow without resorting to a laptop or PC. Thanks.
John Rieley
7557

From: Jan Bergquist  <jb.bergquist@t...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:52pm
Subject: Button up Shadow ?

 
I noticed that Shadow itself now can be run from the external card.
But I forget, is it then possible to start it with one button, like the Task
button ?
When I tried, I couldn't make it work.
Also w launcher I couldn't set a shortcut for one of the 4 buttons ?

I'm not really sure that I want to have it external, but it might be useful
sometimes.
7558

From: Laurie Leonard  <lleonard@m...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 5:08pm
Subject: Transferring to new PDA

 
I am installing Shadow on a new PDA and am not sure what to do.  I know I
have to install shadow.prc but what other files do I have to install to get
my data on?  Also, there's a folder labeled By_Hand and I'm not sure what
that means. (I have a Mac, by the way, so no desktop conduit.)
7559

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 5:23pm
Subject: Re: beta question for those with crash-on-exit

 
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Guillermo Cremerius wrote:

> 1- It only crashes when I don't close the all subwindows (File->Quit or
> X).
> 
> 2- It doesn't crash if I have the File Name selected on the left side
> panel, otherwise it does.
> 
> This is on a Win ME machine...
> 
> Hope this helps.

	There'll be a new beta tonight or tomorrow (we're just clearing it
in alpha right now), which I think fixes you all up.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7560

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 5:25pm
Subject: Re: Desktop complaints- delete color

 
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, wa2zeg wrote:

> I have one very minor complaint about the desktop. A deleted item is 
> given a text-block color of light purple or pink. I have poor vision 
> and find it hard to see on my laptop. I would love a darker color for 
> deleted items. Otherwise, an excellent HH and desktop system. My 
> supervisory work is much enhanced; I track worker's tasks, their due 
> dates, and paperwork flow without resorting to a laptop or PC. Thanks.

	Glad to hear it helps out!

	I may allow theming or colour fiddling a bit later; right now its
a fairly good colour -- brighter would annoy people, darker would be hard
to see. But we'll get you a customization system or tune it better
(especially for laptops and such) in a bit.

	Lots of work going into the desktop and conduit right now too :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7561

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 5:27pm
Subject: Re: Button up Shadow ?

 
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Jan Bergquist wrote:

> I noticed that Shadow itself now can be run from the external card.
> But I forget, is it then possible to start it with one button, like the Task
> button ?
> When I tried, I couldn't make it work.

	Its purely up to the launcher and hacks; the OS itself cannot do
it. (VFS objects are really hidden away from the OS until brought into
main memory).

	Myself, I use PiDirect which allows you to put anything you want
onto a VFS card, and then it tricks the OS into thinking its in local
memory. So you can still run things or keep read-onyl data on VFS and the
OS isn't the wiser.

	Shadow works perfectly with PiDirect (and other similar tools).

> I'm not really sure that I want to have it external, but it might be
> useful sometimes.

	The main thing is if memory is tight. Shadow isn't huge, but its
pretty beefy and saving a couple hundred K can be very handy :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7562

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 5:30pm
Subject: Re: Transferring to new PDA

 
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Laurie Leonard wrote:

> I am installing Shadow on a new PDA and am not sure what to do.  I
> know I have to install shadow.prc but what other files do I have to
> install to get my data on?  Also, there's a folder labeled By_Hand and
> I'm not sure what that means. (I have a Mac, by the way, so no desktop
> conduit.)

	By_Hand is for Windows folks who wish ot install bny hand (without
using the setup.exe installer)

	Firstly.. before decomissioning the old unit, do a good solid
hotsync, and then find your user directory and back eveyrthing up (copy it
all somewhere else for safe keeping). I'm not sure how its arrayed on the
Mac, but my hotsync ID is "Jeff Mitchell" and my user directory under
Windows is "MitcheJ" -- simialr but different. Before using a new PAD, I
copy that whole directory somewhere else.

	Then I pop in the new PDA and sync; when asked for a new hotsync
ID or to reuse an old one, I pick the existing account and Hotsync Manager
copies most or all of the data back onto the unit. Bear in mind HM won't
handle VFS data properly, and may forget a few things (hence the backup
above :)

	I then go and upload from my backups all the missing PDBs..

	Your Shadow files are all in the Backup directory (Mac included),
and should look like: "ShadP-*.PDB". (though minus the PDB on the Mac). So
if you have a file called "foo" on your handheld, the Shadow file on your
desktop would be "ShadP-foo" (with or without PDB). Just use the install
tool for Palm Desktop and send up all your Shadow PDB files, and
Shadow.prc as you found, and your'e good to go.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7563

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 8:51pm
Subject: Screenshots all 3 desktops (Win, Mac OSX, Unix GTK)

 
Same file opene din each, current versions of each.

	I'm pretty darned pleased.

	OSX alpha to be released in moments!

Windows 1.2.3:
http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/shadow-desktop-win-123.png

Mac OSX 1.2.3:
http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/shadow-desktop-osx-123.png

Unix GTK (on KDE) 1.2.3:
http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/shadow-desktop-gtk-123.png

	I'm pleased :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7564

From: Guillermo Cremerius  <guillermo@c...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 7:57pm
Subject: Re[2]: beta question for those with crash-on-exit

 
Jeff,

That's fine... I can wait... but since you asked, I wanted to let you
know :)

Keep up the good... no *excellent* work! This is a killer app!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
To: Jeff Mitchell <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002, 3:23:56 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] beta question for those with crash-on-exit

> On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Guillermo Cremerius wrote:

>> 1- It only crashes when I don't close the all subwindows (File->Quit or
>> X).
>> 
>> 2- It doesn't crash if I have the File Name selected on the left side
>> panel, otherwise it does.
>> 
>> This is on a Win ME machine...
>> 
>> Hope this helps.

>         There'll be a new beta tonight or tomorrow (we're just clearing it
> in alpha right now), which I think fixes you all up.

>                 jeff


-- 
--Guillermo Cremerius------------------------------
7565

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 9:47pm
Subject: Re: Screenshots all 3 desktops (Win, Mac OSX, Unix GTK)

 
Hey Jeff,

GTK (Linux/unix) version lookin' good! When can we anticipate a release?

I'm willing to test! do i have to be a member of the shadow-desktop
list? or will shadow-test suffice?

-tom!
7566

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 10:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Screenshots all 3 desktops (Win, Mac OSX, Unix GTK)

 
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, tsuchy wrote:

> GTK (Linux/unix) version lookin' good! When can we anticipate a release?

	Not sure. It has a few oddities to resolve yet, but not too
many. Its working pretty well overall, but I need a few hours solid on it
to figure out why it always thinks every item is "changed" :)

> I'm willing to test! do i have to be a member of the shadow-desktop
> list? or will shadow-test suffice?

	Alphas to shadow-test, early beats to shadow-desktop.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7567

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 11:17pm
Subject: website updated (added those screenshots)

 
I dunno about you, but I'm easily impressed by screenshots :) Fear
not, once the alpha guys work over the OSX stuff a bit I'll make it a
public beta. Maybe a few days, maybe a week. Or join shadow-test if you
want in on the alpha..

	Everyone else.. the 3 screenshots are now on the website
frontpage, easily found :)

	I gotta get me a vacation :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7568

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:41am
Subject: New desktop

 
Jeff

The desktop is great.  Thanks for all your hard work

Rita
7569

From: geoffthieme  <geoffthieme@y...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:22pm
Subject: Color Coded Tags

 
How hard would it be to added color coded tags?

Each category of tags would be assigned a color. If red was assigned 
to the priority category and a tag called high was in that category, 
high would show up in red text. This would make my outline much more 
colorful and make it easier to find tasks based in their tag.
7570

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:29pm
Subject: Poll results for shadow-discuss

 
The following shadow-discuss poll is now closed.  Here are the 
final results: 


POLL QUESTION: Mac users only please!

Are you using an OSX (10.0, 10.1, 10.2 
Jaguar, etc), or an OS prior to OSX 
(OS9, OS8, etc.) 

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- I use an OSX varient, 19 votes, 61.29%  
- I use an OS9 varient, but prefer you support OS9 and OSX, 12 votes, 38.71%  
- I use OS9, OS8, or earlier, 0 votes, 0.00%  



For more information about this group, please visit 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss 

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
7571

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:33pm
Subject: New poll for shadow-discuss

 
Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
shadow-discuss group:

MAc OSX users; the Shadow Desktop for
OSX is in alpha testing (see the
screenshot on the website!). I can
expect to get the desktop through
testing reasonably quickly, but the
conduit (that does the syncing) will
take another few weeks or so to get into
testing, plus a few weeks of testing.

Would you rather have a public release
of Shadow Desktop for OSX that initially
does not have a sync conduit? (it can
read and write to your raw PDBs that
Hotsync Manager works with). Or would
you rather wait a month or two to get
the Shadow Desktop including the
conduit, so it just syncs as normal? 

  o I'd like (and purchase since updates are free) OSX Desktop right away! Can live without conduit for awhile 
  o I'd like (wouldn't purchase until conduit) OSX Desktop right away! Can live without conduit for awhile 
  o I'd rather wait until the conduit is done and tested before getting it 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/surveys?id=992376  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!
7572

From: Bob Noe  <bnoe@c...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
I can confirm this on my NR70V.

It seems to be related to the titlebar being on or not.

If the titlebar is on and nothing is selected pushing the jog does nothing.
If the titlebar is off and nothing is selected pushing the jog selects the
first item.

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1


> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:
>
> > > When nothing is selected, jog is page up/down.
> > Agreed - All OK
> >
> > > When an item is
> > > selected, it is scroll selection 1 up/down.
> > Agreed - All OK
> >
> > > Push the jog dial to select an item,
> > Nah - not here
>
> So pushing Jog opens details while an item is selected, but does
> nothing while no item is selected? Thats pretty strange.. please confirm.
>
> > > or go into details, etcx
> > Agreed
> > > Push Back to unselect or go back to file
> > > listing.
> > Agreed
> >
> > I tried switching off all the Hacks. Still did the same thing. OK -
> > Must be an NR70V thing. Not to worry.
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
7573

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:35pm
Subject: New poll for OSX users; when do you want the goods?

 
Check the polls.

	Essentially.. enter your answer..

	1) You want Shadow Desktop ASAP, even without the conduit (it'll
take another month or two)

	2) You dont' want the desktop until it has the conduit done and
tested

	Enter your answer in the poll ASAP!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7574

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:37pm
Subject: Re: New desktop

 
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Rita wrote:

> The desktop is great.  Thanks for all your hard work

	*bow*

	Thanks for enjoying :) Keep up the good work :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7575

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Color Coded Tags

 
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:

> How hard would it be to added color coded tags?
> 
> Each category of tags would be assigned a color. If red was assigned
> to the priority category and a tag called high was in that category,
> high would show up in red text. This would make my outline much more
> colorful and make it easier to find tasks based in their tag.

	I had actually intended originally to have colour-by-tag (not by
tag category). Thats not in yet, but it is part of the design, so wouldn't
be too bad. As long as you used the same colour for each tag in a tag
category, you'd be okay. Good?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7576

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:10pm
Subject: PTP, PalmOS5 & ShadowPlan

 
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:48:54 -0600
Subject: PTP, PalmOS5 & ShadowPlan

Hi Jeff, 

I am pleased to notify you that ShadowPlan will be listed in the upcoming 
issue of Palmtop Pro (which will appear on 12th November) as being one of 
the first successful OS5 compatible applications we have tested. 
Congratulations! 

Best regards, 

Peter Rand
Contributing Editor,
www.palmtop-pro.com
7577

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:31pm
Subject: Re: PTP, PalmOS5 & ShadowPlan

 
very cool...
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:10 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] PTP, PalmOS5 & ShadowPlan



  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
  Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 07:48:54 -0600
  Subject: PTP, PalmOS5 & ShadowPlan

  Hi Jeff, 

  I am pleased to notify you that ShadowPlan will be listed in the upcoming 
  issue of Palmtop Pro (which will appear on 12th November) as being one of 
  the first successful OS5 compatible applications we have tested. 
  Congratulations! 

  Best regards, 

  Peter Rand
  Contributing Editor,
  www.palmtop-pro.com


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7578

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Bob Noe wrote:

> I can confirm this on my NR70V.
> 
> It seems to be related to the titlebar being on or not.
> 
> If the titlebar is on and nothing is selected pushing the jog does nothing.
> If the titlebar is off and nothing is selected pushing the jog selects the
> first item.

	You're kidding!

	Can you confirm this? Toggle it on and off a few times?

	Does it depend if your'e in high res assist or not?

	Sounds like it could be another weird Sony buglet. Whacky.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7579

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Bob Noe wrote:
>
> > I can confirm this on my NR70V.
> >
> > It seems to be related to the titlebar being on or not.
> >
> > If the titlebar is on and nothing is selected pushing the jog does
nothing.
> > If the titlebar is off and nothing is selected pushing the jog selects
the
> > first item.
>
> You're kidding!
>
> Can you confirm this? Toggle it on and off a few times?
>
> Does it depend if your'e in high res assist or not?
>
> Sounds like it could be another weird Sony buglet. Whacky.

Ho!  I can reproduce this on my N610c.  Happens in both hires assist and
mixed mode.  I suspect it's been there since the titlebar's implementation,
and no one has stumbled across it till now.

Ling
--
7580

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Russ & Ling wrote:

> Ho!  I can reproduce this on my N610c.  Happens in both hires assist and
> mixed mode.  I suspect it's been there since the titlebar's implementation,
> and no one has stumbled across it till now.

	Yep, found it on my n760c too. Only when tbar present. Whacky!

	I'll test it tonight or tomorrow mornign and see what
gives. Shoudl be an easy fix. 2.5.8 I suppose :) Ever closer to a 2.6
release.. like an asymptope :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7581

From: Laurie Leonard  <lleonard@m...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:11am
Subject: Re: Transferring to new PDA

 
Jeff--

Thanks for your response.  I am little confused about what a "user
directory" is. Is it possible we don't have anything equivalent on the Mac?
There's a "User Data" file in the Palm folder on my Mac but as far as I can
tell it just includes the Palm Desktop apps.  Would it work to back
everything up on the first PDA, a Handera, to an SD card and then put that
SD card in the second unit, a 515, and set it up from there?

Thanks,
Laurie



On 10/21/02 3:59 AM, "shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com"
<shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>> I am installing Shadow on a new PDA and am not sure what to do.  I
>> know I have to install shadow.prc but what other files do I have to
>> install to get my data on?  Also, there's a folder labeled By_Hand and
>> I'm not sure what that means. (I have a Mac, by the way, so no desktop
>> conduit.)
> 
> By_Hand is for Windows folks who wish ot install bny hand (without
> using the setup.exe installer)
> 
> Firstly.. before decomissioning the old unit, do a good solid
> hotsync, and then find your user directory and back eveyrthing up (copy it
> all somewhere else for safe keeping). I'm not sure how its arrayed on the
> Mac, but my hotsync ID is "Jeff Mitchell" and my user directory under
> Windows is "MitcheJ" -- simialr but different. Before using a new PAD, I
> copy that whole directory somewhere else.
> 
> Then I pop in the new PDA and sync; when asked for a new hotsync
> ID or to reuse an old one, I pick the existing account and Hotsync Manager
> copies most or all of the data back onto the unit. Bear in mind HM won't
> handle VFS data properly, and may forget a few things (hence the backup
> above :)
> 
> I then go and upload from my backups all the missing PDBs..
> 
> Your Shadow files are all in the Backup directory (Mac included),
> and should look like: "ShadP-*.PDB". (though minus the PDB on the Mac). So
> if you have a file called "foo" on your handheld, the Shadow file on your
> desktop would be "ShadP-foo" (with or without PDB). Just use the install
> tool for Palm Desktop and send up all your Shadow PDB files, and
> Shadow.prc as you found, and your'e good to go.
> 
> jeff
7582

From: CAH Cox  <charlepp@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 2:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Transferring to new PDA

 
Laurie: I haven't used my Mac in a while, but your PDA, since it has a Palm OS, keeps a backup of all the files (ok, most of the files) in your PDA somewhere in the Mac. Just invoke Find to look for a typical Palm app, like address book or ToDo, and you'll see where it's being stored. That's your user directory.
Better yet, get Blue Nomad's BackupBuddy, they have a Mac OS version: http://www.bluenomad.com/bb/prod_backupbuddy_download.html
You can get a 30 day trial download: once installed, it will backup EVERYTHING on your PDA, programs, files, etc. in your user directory: if you keep the same user name on your new PDA (and if you don't just transfer the "backup" folder from the old PDA's user directory to the new PDA's user directory) and BackupBuddy will put your new PDA in exactly the same condition that you left the old PDA at the last hotsync.  It's good to have: I've had a few PDA meltdowns before, and because I hotsync daily, if not more, getting back up to speed was as easy as pressing the hotsync button once my PDA was brought back to life.
Chris Harlepp
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Laurie Leonard 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 9:11 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Transferring to new PDA


  Jeff--

  Thanks for your response.  I am little confused about what a "user
  directory" is. Is it possible we don't have anything equivalent on the Mac?
  There's a "User Data" file in the Palm folder on my Mac but as far as I can
  tell it just includes the Palm Desktop apps.  Would it work to back
  everything up on the first PDA, a Handera, to an SD card and then put that
  SD card in the second unit, a 515, and set it up from there?

  Thanks,
  Laurie



  On 10/21/02 3:59 AM, "shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com"
  <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  >> I am installing Shadow on a new PDA and am not sure what to do.  I
  >> know I have to install shadow.prc but what other files do I have to
  >> install to get my data on?  Also, there's a folder labeled By_Hand and
  >> I'm not sure what that means. (I have a Mac, by the way, so no desktop
  >> conduit.)
  > 
  > By_Hand is for Windows folks who wish ot install bny hand (without
  > using the setup.exe installer)
  > 
  > Firstly.. before decomissioning the old unit, do a good solid
  > hotsync, and then find your user directory and back eveyrthing up (copy it
  > all somewhere else for safe keeping). I'm not sure how its arrayed on the
  > Mac, but my hotsync ID is "Jeff Mitchell" and my user directory under
  > Windows is "MitcheJ" -- simialr but different. Before using a new PAD, I
  > copy that whole directory somewhere else.
  > 
  > Then I pop in the new PDA and sync; when asked for a new hotsync
  > ID or to reuse an old one, I pick the existing account and Hotsync Manager
  > copies most or all of the data back onto the unit. Bear in mind HM won't
  > handle VFS data properly, and may forget a few things (hence the backup
  > above :)
  > 
  > I then go and upload from my backups all the missing PDBs..
  > 
  > Your Shadow files are all in the Backup directory (Mac included),
  > and should look like: "ShadP-*.PDB". (though minus the PDB on the Mac). So
  > if you have a file called "foo" on your handheld, the Shadow file on your
  > desktop would be "ShadP-foo" (with or without PDB). Just use the install
  > tool for Palm Desktop and send up all your Shadow PDB files, and
  > Shadow.prc as you found, and your'e good to go.
  > 
  > jeff


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7583

From: mzehner2000  <matt_zehner@p...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 5:36am
Subject: Re: beta question for those with crash-on-exit

 
Jeff, fyi, my crashes WERE happening with all subwindows closed.  Let 
me know if I can provide further info - however, I've actually 
uninstalled the PC beta for now, as I'm trying to get to the bottom 
of some major laptop freezing I've encountered over the last few 
days.  

I'm not accusing Shadow of causing the problem - I don't have enought 
data - but I also don't know if it's just coincidental that the 
freezing started pretty soon after I first set some of my PDA lists 
to sync to PC and sent some of my PC test lists up to the HH (when I 
originally reported the desktop crashes on exit, I had not yet sent 
files back and forth).  

I may also be experiencing something related to win2000 admin 
privileges, as another poster reported, though I didn't get an error 
message on uninstall; I'll chase that tomorrow.

HTH
Matt

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Guillermo Cremerius wrote:
> 
> > 1- It only crashes when I don't close the all subwindows (File-
>Quit or
> > X).
> > 
> > 2- It doesn't crash if I have the File Name selected on the left 
side
> > panel, otherwise it does.
> > 
> > This is on a Win ME machine...
> > 
> > Hope this helps.
> 
> 	There'll be a new beta tonight or tomorrow (we're just 
clearing it
> in alpha right now), which I think fixes you all up.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7584

From: tljr_2000  <tlj1@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:35am
Subject: Help Importing from ToDo Database

 
I'm using Shadow with DB5 and I've imported my to do's into a new 
file in Shadow.  I checked the "Link from Shadow to Original".  Under 
List Options, I've also checked "Always Link New Items to ToDo".  
Thus, when I add a new item to Shadow, it gets put in my ToDo 
database as expected.  However, when I add a new item to the ToDo 
database directly (for instance, I have a Call/Action template set up 
in DB5 or I make an entry on my desktop via Outlook [as would be the 
case at work] ... these would really be the only instances I can 
foresee needing to input a to do outside of Shadow), it does not get 
put in Shadow.  Is this expected, or have I set something up wrong.  

Just trying to find the best way to make Shadow my primary ToDo 
application ... do I need to ditch the idea of imputing any to do's 
outside of Shadow?.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Todd
7585

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:35am
Subject: Re: Help Importing from ToDo Database

 
Hi Todd

This is what you do:

In front of each todo enter [[[shadow file name]]], then in shadow, 
before opening a list, tap the drop down menu > transfer > import 
marked todos and your todos that were marked with the square 
brackets will be imported in the named file.

There's a really good explanation of this procedure in the manual 
headed "Auto Import from to do list" :)

I have set up a short cut that does [[[todo]]] and 'todo' is the 
name of my main list in shadow.   I must also admit that this is not 
my original idea, someone else on this list mentioned a while back.

Someone cleverer than I am with Outlook, might have a suggestion on 
how to automate [[[file]]] in Outlook eg set up a form or script or 
something.  I wouldn't mind knowing how myself.

I hope this helps.

Rita

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "tljr_2000" <tlj1@c...> wrote:
> I'm using Shadow with DB5 and I've imported my to do's into a new 
> file in Shadow.  I checked the "Link from Shadow to Original".  
Under 
> List Options, I've also checked "Always Link New Items to ToDo".  
> Thus, when I add a new item to Shadow, it gets put in my ToDo 
> database as expected.  However, when I add a new item to the ToDo 
> database directly (for instance, I have a Call/Action template set 
up 
> in DB5 or I make an entry on my desktop via Outlook [as would be 
the 
> case at work] ... these would really be the only instances I can 
> foresee needing to input a to do outside of Shadow), it does not 
get 
> put in Shadow.  Is this expected, or have I set something up 
wrong.  
> 
> Just trying to find the best way to make Shadow my primary ToDo 
> application ... do I need to ditch the idea of imputing any to 
do's 
> outside of Shadow?.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!
> 
> Todd
7586

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:38am
Subject: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
> 	Yep, found it on my n760c too. Only when tbar present. 
Whacky!

Ditto on the T615

Rita
7587

From: alwaysenuf  <alwaysenuf@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:58pm
Subject: Honeymoon's over: More(New?) feature requests

 
Jeff, 
Thanks for such great work! The problem is that as you raise Shadow's 
capacity to greater heights, so to do our whims and desires raise.8-) 
Since the new conduit allows no data loss, I'm now using the desktop 
more. While I'm sold on Shadow already, and I truly don't want to 
seem unappreciative, the access to the desktop has led to more "gee 
this would be really great if it just..."

my top one is...  Is there a way to show tag associations on the 
desktop?  and eventually filter with/by them on the desktop?

and my next is ... Please add a sync toggle to the drop box at the 
right on the main files screen( it now sez open, category, beam, 
duplicate... etc.) 

Thanks again for a truly remarkable program... that already does more 
that i would've thought of asking for... 
ms
7588

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Transferring to new PDA

 
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Laurie Leonard wrote:

> Thanks for your response.  I am little confused about what a "user
> directory" is. Is it possible we don't have anything equivalent on the Mac?
> There's a "User Data" file in the Palm folder on my Mac but as far as I can
> tell it just includes the Palm Desktop apps.  Would it work to back
> everything up on the first PDA, a Handera, to an SD card and then put that
> SD card in the second unit, a 515, and set it up from there?

	I've never done a memcard backup/restore from one machine tyype to
another; It *should* work, but who knows ;)

	On a Mac you still have a user directory, and a Backup
directory. In OSX it should be easily found... no idea on OS9, but I'm
sure theres lots of Maccies here who could help. You just want to make
sure you've copied all your PDB files somewhere for safe keeping, and then
restoer however. (I'm super paranoid about losing data!)

	If you're paranoid, look for Backup Buddy; there are palm
databases that do not get backed up by Hotsync Manager, and BB will cause
those to get backed up too. A lot of people use trial BB for this
purpose.. a one shot backup/restore, but its a handy product to use
anyway.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7589

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: beta question for those with crash-on-exit

 
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, mzehner2000 wrote:

> Jeff, fyi, my crashes WERE happening with all subwindows closed.  Let
> me know if I can provide further info - however, I've actually
> uninstalled the PC beta for now, as I'm trying to get to the bottom of
> some major laptop freezing I've encountered over the last few days.

	The Shadow stuff wouldn't cause anything like that. The current
beta fixes all that crash-on-exit stuff AFAIK.

> I'm not accusing Shadow of causing the problem - I don't have enought
> data - but I also don't know if it's just coincidental that the
> freezing started pretty soon after I first set some of my PDA lists to
> sync to PC and sent some of my PC test lists up to the HH (when I
> originally reported the desktop crashes on exit, I had not yet sent
> files back and forth).

	Wouldn't be related; Shadow isn't running at all in background. It
runs during sync, and it runs when you run Shadow Desktop, but thats it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7590

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:07pm
Subject: Re: Help Importing from ToDo Database

 
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, tljr_2000 wrote:

> I'm using Shadow with DB5 and I've imported my to do's into a new file
> in Shadow.  I checked the "Link from Shadow to Original".  Under List
> Options, I've also checked "Always Link New Items to ToDo".  Thus,
> when I add a new item to Shadow, it gets put in my ToDo database as
> expected.  However, when I add a new item to the ToDo database
> directly (for instance, I have a Call/Action template set up in DB5 or
> I make an entry on my desktop via Outlook [as would be the case at
> work] ... these would really be the only instances I can foresee
> needing to input a to do outside of Shadow), it does not get put in
> Shadow.  Is this expected, or have I set something up wrong.

	You need to tell Shadow which file to put these into, and then
tell shadow to do an import. (ie: You may have 100 Shadow files.. how
would it know where to auto import things into?)

	Check the Reference Guide and look for Auto Import I think I
called it. Or ToDo import. Anyway, yuo can do stuff like this:

	Say you have a Shadow file called "MyStuff". Then you could put
this right at the front of 1 or more ToDo's:

	[[[MyStu]]] (the rest of your todo here)

	Then ask Shadow (from the file selectin screen in one of the pull
down menus) to improt marked ToDos. Voila! You neednt' enter the whole
filename in the brackets.

> Just trying to find the best way to make Shadow my primary ToDo
> application ... do I need to ditch the idea of imputing any to do's
> outside of Shadow?.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!

	No problem :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7591

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 6:10pm
Subject: Re: Honeymoon's over: More(New?) feature requests

 
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, alwaysenuf wrote:

> Thanks for such great work! The problem is that as you raise Shadow's 
> capacity to greater heights, so to do our whims and desires raise.8-) 
> Since the new conduit allows no data loss, I'm now using the desktop 
> more. While I'm sold on Shadow already, and I truly don't want to 
> seem unappreciative, the access to the desktop has led to more "gee 
> this would be really great if it just..."

	Spoiled ;)

> my top one is...  Is there a way to show tag associations on the
> desktop?  and eventually filter with/by them on the desktop?

	Eventually, but not yet.

> and my next is ... Please add a sync toggle to the drop box at the
> right on the main files screen( it now sez open, category, beam,
> duplicate... etc.)

	Maybe. Its on my list, but its sort of ugly work for a few reasons
:)

> Thanks again for a truly remarkable program... that already does more
> that i would've thought of asking for...

	Don't worry, I'll be saving up some stuff for Christmas ;)

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7592

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:37pm
Subject: Shadow 2.6 Beta 4 (Windows) Available

 
NOTE: This is BETA. It is pretty darned stable, but it may have
niggles.

	FEEDBACK Requirement:

	If you download this, you must post to this group, or to me, or to
shadow-test, an opinion or comment.. good, bad, things you hate, things
that are broken, etc. If I don't get any "good" replies, I don't know if
it works. If I don't get any "broken" replies, I release this to the
public broken! Please give me your feedback! :)

	That said, you've already seen a prior beta (beta 1 or 2?) and
this has been through shadow-test for awhile, so its pretty darned
stable. I've updated some behind the scenes toolkits though, so please
test the entire thing over! New files, old files, printing, everything
you'd like to normally do!

	Get it here:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow26b4win.zip

	This includes the install so is easy to install. The documentation
is not yet updated to reflect changes since 2.5.0 release.

	New stuff: Desktop offers drag and drop and promote/demote/push
arrows, as well as lots of fixes all over the place. Theres an essentially
all new conduit with progress bar, new sync logic, new super safe
mechanisms and backups, and very keen configuration screen to let you set
options however you like them. You can also move Shadow Plan itself to
memory card or the like, and the sync will proceed.. save yourself a
couple hundred K of main memory :)

	So run the installer, and away you go :) Be sure to visit Hotsync
Manager Custom settings to configure Shadow Conduit the way you'd like.

	Please post back ASAP with your opinions.. I want to release this
very soon, so if theres no issues in the next couple of days, I'll be
letting it out ASAP.

	Mac: Yes, your beta is coming. We're just doing alpha testing
now..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7593

From: tljr_2000  <tlj1@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 8:39pm
Subject: Re: Help Importing from ToDo Database

 
Thank you, Jeff.  I'm still getting the hang of this, but I continue 
to be impressed!  On an unrelated (I think) subject ... I have  a 
Shadow file that, when I try to open it on the handheld, gives me an 
error message that reads "Bad Load! The list could not be loaded!"  
When I try to delete this file, it will not delete.  And ... the file 
does not show up on my desktop.  Any ideas?

Todd



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, tljr_2000 wrote:
> 
> > I'm using Shadow with DB5 and I've imported my to do's into a new 
file
> > in Shadow.  I checked the "Link from Shadow to Original".  Under 
List
> > Options, I've also checked "Always Link New Items to ToDo".  Thus,
> > when I add a new item to Shadow, it gets put in my ToDo database 
as
> > expected.  However, when I add a new item to the ToDo database
> > directly (for instance, I have a Call/Action template set up in 
DB5 or
> > I make an entry on my desktop via Outlook [as would be the case at
> > work] ... these would really be the only instances I can foresee
> > needing to input a to do outside of Shadow), it does not get put 
in
> > Shadow.  Is this expected, or have I set something up wrong.
> 
> 	You need to tell Shadow which file to put these into, and then
> tell shadow to do an import. (ie: You may have 100 Shadow files.. 
how
> would it know where to auto import things into?)
> 
> 	Check the Reference Guide and look for Auto Import I think I
> called it. Or ToDo import. Anyway, yuo can do stuff like this:
> 
> 	Say you have a Shadow file called "MyStuff". Then you could 
put
> this right at the front of 1 or more ToDo's:
> 
> 	[[[MyStu]]] (the rest of your todo here)
> 
> 	Then ask Shadow (from the file selectin screen in one of the 
pull
> down menus) to improt marked ToDos. Voila! You neednt' enter the 
whole
> filename in the brackets.
> 
> > Just trying to find the best way to make Shadow my primary ToDo
> > application ... do I need to ditch the idea of imputing any to 
do's
> > outside of Shadow?.  Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 	No problem :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7594

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: Help Importing from ToDo Database

 
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, tljr_2000 wrote:

> Thank you, Jeff.  I'm still getting the hang of this, but I continue
> to be impressed!  On an unrelated (I think) subject ... I have a
> Shadow file that, when I try to open it on the handheld, gives me an
> error message that reads "Bad Load! The list could not be loaded!"  
> When I try to delete this file, it will not delete.  And ... the file
> does not show up on my desktop.  Any ideas?

	If it is not showing up ni Shadow Desktop, meaning you haven't
been syncing it with the Shadow conduit, then the only way it can be
corrupted is if soething non-Shadow went weird on your handheld, or
perhaps you had a power failure or crash in hotsync manager (non Shadow
related) screwing up the file :/ (ie: If yuo yoink out the unit at the
wrong time during a sync). The new conduit can survive even things like
this, but the old conduit could not survive extreme things..

	If you like, you can send me the PDB file from your Hotsync Backup
and I can extract the strings from it, or perhaps get some of the data
back.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7595

From: Jeff & Karen Resener  <karjar@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:43pm
Subject: HH item moving

 
With the new 2.5.6 is anyone else experiencing an inability to move the
orders of items. lets say child number 5 I want to be child number 2. I
cannot drag, nor do the up/down arrow icons move the order. I am sure I
used to be able to do this. Any ideas
jeff
7596

From: Guillermo Cremerius  <guillermo@c...>
Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:11pm
Subject: Re: Honeymoon's over: More(New?) feature requests

 
Jeff,

I second this one

> my top one is...  Is there a way to show tag associations on the
> desktop?  and eventually filter with/by them on the desktop?

And this one too... :)

> Thanks again for a truly remarkable program... that already does more
> that i would've thought of asking for... 


-----Original Message-----
From: alwaysenuf <alwaysenuf@y...>
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002, 11:58:55 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Honeymoon's over: More(New?) feature requests

> Jeff, 
> Thanks for such great work! The problem is that as you raise Shadow's 
> capacity to greater heights, so to do our whims and desires raise.8-) 
> Since the new conduit allows no data loss, I'm now using the desktop 
> more. While I'm sold on Shadow already, and I truly don't want to 
> seem unappreciative, the access to the desktop has led to more "gee 
> this would be really great if it just..."

> my top one is...  Is there a way to show tag associations on the 
> desktop?  and eventually filter with/by them on the desktop?

> and my next is ... Please add a sync toggle to the drop box at the 
> right on the main files screen( it now sez open, category, beam, 
> duplicate... etc.) 

> Thanks again for a truly remarkable program... that already does more 
> that i would've thought of asking for... 
> ms

-- 
--Guillermo Cremerius------------------------------
7597

From: Demetrios  <Demetrios@H...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:55am
Subject: Re: [Shadow-desktop] Shadow 2.6 Beta 4 (Windows) Available

 
For some reason whenever I Delete something, the "main" Shadow Desktop
pops up in front of my list.

    Other than that, it works well. Great work as always!

Demetrios
7598

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 0:37pm
Subject: Shadow 2.6 Beta 5 (Windows) Available!

 
Thanks to those who've gotten back to me with feedback about the
other betas and alphas! It has been very helpful! I think b5 is getting
very close to release quality.

	NOTE: This is BETA. It is pretty darned stable, but it may have
niggles.

	Fixed from b4 to b5; new list, new items, don't crash anymore.
When upgrading 3rd party toolkits, that broke behind the scenes.

	FEEDBACK Requirement:

	If you download this, you must post to this group, or to me, or to
shadow-test, an opinion or comment.. good, bad, things you hate, things
that are broken, etc. If I don't get any "good" replies, I don't know if
it works. If I don't get any "broken" replies, I release this to the
public broken! Please give me your feedback! :)

	That said, you've already seen a prior beta (beta 1 or 2?) and
this has been through shadow-test for awhile, so its pretty darned
stable. I've updated some behind the scenes toolkits though, so please
test the entire thing over! New files, old files, printing, everything
you'd like to normally do!

	Get it here:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow26b5win.zip

	This includes the install so is easy to install. The documentation
is not yet updated to reflect changes since 2.5.0 release.

	New stuff: Desktop offers drag and drop and promote/demote/push
arrows, as well as lots of fixes all over the place. Theres an essentially
all new conduit with progress bar, new sync logic, new super safe
mechanisms and backups, and very keen configuration screen to let you set
options however you like them. You can also move Shadow Plan itself to
memory card or the like, and the sync will proceed.. save yourself a
couple hundred K of main memory :)

	So run the installer, and away you go :) Be sure to visit Hotsync
Manager Custom settings to configure Shadow Conduit the way you'd like.

	Please post back ASAP with your opinions.. I want to release this
very soon, so if theres no issues in the next couple of days, I'll be
letting it out ASAP.

	Mac: Yes, your beta is coming. We're just doing alpha testing
now..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7599

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:14pm
Subject: Re: HH item moving

 
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Jeff & Karen Resener wrote:

> With the new 2.5.6 is anyone else experiencing an inability to move the
> orders of items. lets say child number 5 I want to be child number 2. I
> cannot drag, nor do the up/down arrow icons move the order. I am sure I
> used to be able to do this. Any ideas

	What happens when you try? It can certainlt do it :)

	Did you set up "sort after changes"? (ie: If so, you drag an item,
it resorts, and poof, the item may get moved back, depending on your sort
settings)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7600

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: [Shadow-desktop] Shadow 2.6 Beta 4 (Windows) Available

 
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Demetrios wrote:

>    For some reason whenever I Delete something, the "main" Shadow Desktop
> pops up in front of my list.
> 
>     Other than that, it works well. Great work as always!

	When certain confirmation boxes pop up, they come from the base
window for various reasons. I'll be changing this behaviour after release,
when I go into feature upgrade mode. The current desktop release is to add
drag and drop, promote/demote and push, and fix a number of issues. But
not to get too creative.. we need to get this new stuff out to the masses,
then start with the fancy stuff :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
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