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7401

From: Timothy Woerner  <TEWoerner@m...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Anyone help me with a filter?

 
(grin) Don't rush the desktop.  I need it to make last minute edits, 
which will synch back later, before printing.

Tim
7402

From: Tom Curley  <tcurley@c...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:50pm
Subject: Features

 
As long as we are adding to the wish list when dev on the palm side 
resumes:

How about legal-type numberin?
1. Parent
1.1 Child - 1st sublevel / 1st item
1.1.1 Child - 2nd sublevel / 1st item
1.2 Child - 1st sublevel / 2nd  item

you get the idea....
With indentation suppressed this would help see relationships in long 
lists even when the parents are off the screen  (example: if you see 
item 2.3.4 you can tell immediately it's position - if all you can see 
is 4. (even indented) then you can't tell where it belongs without 
looking.

just an idea....

TAC

P.S. Love the program!  Quickly finding lots of uses!
7403

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:07pm
Subject: Re: A few ideas?

 
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002, tsuchy wrote:

> I've got a few ideas that might make shadow rock even more, what do
> you think?
> 
> - A grafitti shortcut to "List Options" ?

	How often do you go to this option, that you'd want a shortcut to
it? (ie: It likely shouldn't be available from the List menu or as a
shortcut, as it woudl be "clutterous" to the List menu which is already
quite full and cutting off on some units :) (and I don't know if
clutterous is a word, but I like it :)

> - Grafitti Shortcuts for Zoom and UnZoom ?

	A couple have been proposed, but I must admit I forgot them :(

> - I noticed that when you 'Cut' one or more items to empty out the
> file, leave the file, and then come back, the last cutting session is
> undone and all those entries are still there. Not that this is a
> really big problem, since i usually delete the db after doing
> something like this, but it frightens and confuses me.

	Its a minibug; you've cut out all the list items, so it looks and
says "hey, no changes to items in this list" and forgets to save out the
"cut state" since "nothing has changed". Its on my list :)

> - Item->Demote All Children ? or perhaps, 'Cut All Children' or 'Copy
> All Children? ?

	"Demote all children" makes no sense -- if they're children, they
are already demoted ;)

	I could add those sorts of Edit commands; they couldnt' go in the
Edit menu, since it already fills the entire screen (unless I devise a
collapsable menu system for Palm OS..). I could put them under the [C]
popmenu. You could simulate it though.. check the parent (which checks all
children), then Copy All Checked.. pr use multiclip and just copy them all
one by one. I typically avoid too many "copy all" type commands, since the
"all" could be a very large number, and Palm OS does provide limited
memory and it gets complex fast ;)

> I know you're busy with the desktop versions, but i wanted to put
> these up for consideration before i forgot.

	All good. The worst that can happen is I say "pfah!", but the best
is when peopel bounce around and refine the ideas. It never hurts to make
suggestions..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7404

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:10pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Desktop Picture

 
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, ooookid wrote:

> Hi, dude, I upload one pic in the Photos Ablum (desktop view.pic), 
> check it out please....cause my shabby English, I just draw a desktop 
> which I think is close to the one I want...just a "skeleton", as I 
> can not put "DONE" that small square or the collapse/expand arrow or 
> other stuff in this pic....

	Looks sort of like a spreadsheet view.

	The view I'm intending on building is like a spreadsheet.. a grid
if cells. There will be a number column, the title text column (widest), a
column for checked, the dates, some other stuff. Maybe a button to click
on to view the attached note. Then you can cursor around and mess with it.

	I have to decide how I want to handle and display and edit the
indentation level of items..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7405

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: A few ideas?

 
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Timothy Woerner wrote:

> LOL.  I signed on specifically to post (add vote to) two suggestions 
> (which I believe I'm seen suggested before).  Great minds must think 
> alike.
> 
> 1.  Grafitti shortcut or icon for Zoom/Unzoom
> 2.  Option to limit indents to 1 or 2 (selectable) levels.

	Why would you limit indents? Just don't indent :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7406

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:13pm
Subject: Re: Features

 
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Tom Curley wrote:

> As long as we are adding to the wish list when dev on the palm side 
> resumes:
> 
> How about legal-type numberin?
> 1. Parent
> 1.1 Child - 1st sublevel / 1st item
> 1.1.1 Child - 2nd sublevel / 1st item
> 1.2 Child - 1st sublevel / 2nd  item
> 
> you get the idea....
> With indentation suppressed this would help see relationships in long 
> lists even when the parents are off the screen  (example: if you see 
> item 2.3.4 you can tell immediately it's position - if all you can see 
> is 4. (even indented) then you can't tell where it belongs without 
> looking.
> 
> just an idea....

	It is possible; I've implemented it partially in the past as a
proof of concept, but it always takes up a large chunk of screen so I've
ignored it. ie: Its really just a catenation of parent display.. so I'd
allow it for whatever numbering you've selected. So it is conceivable
you'd want:

	1.II.c (being the same as 1.2.3)

	It quickly degrades though..

	I.II.III.IV is half your screen :/

> P.S. Love the program!  Quickly finding lots of uses!

	Glad to help out :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7407

From: jpmv27  <jpmv27@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:28pm
Subject: Re: Features

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, Tom Curley wrote:
> 
> > As long as we are adding to the wish list when dev on the palm 
side 
> > resumes:
> > 
> > How about legal-type numberin?
> > 1. Parent
> > 1.1 Child - 1st sublevel / 1st item
> > 1.1.1 Child - 2nd sublevel / 1st item
> > 1.2 Child - 1st sublevel / 2nd  item
> > 
> 	It is possible; I've implemented it partially in the past as a
> proof of concept, but it always takes up a large chunk of screen so 
I've
> ignored it. ie: Its really just a catenation of parent display.. so 
I'd
> allow it for whatever numbering you've selected. So it is 
conceivable
> you'd want:
> 
> 	1.II.c (being the same as 1.2.3)
> 
> 	It quickly degrades though..
> 
> 	I.II.III.IV is half your screen :/
> 

Just want to add my support for this suggestion. I wouldn't use it 
often, for the reasons you have indicated, but it would be useful in 
some contexts.

So, I wouldn't assign this a high priority, but it would be a nice to 
have.

MV
7408

From: jpmv27  <jpmv27@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:33pm
Subject: Re: A few ideas?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "tsuchy" <tsuchy@y...> wrote:
> - Item->Demote All Children ? or perhaps, 'Cut All Children' 
or 'Copy
> All Children? ?

I could occasionally see a use for Promote All Children.

I'd love to see a Move Child option in the clipboard tool menu.

MV
7409

From: easy123.rm  <easy-123@e...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 3:33pm
Subject: What is the current version of the desktop?

 
Currently I have Shadow Desktop 1.1.0. Is this the most current 
release version? How can I get the current Beta version or reasonably 
stable Alpha version?

thanks,
  stan

BTW:  There are several palm programs that always amaze me as to what 
can be done on such a small simple system as the palm OS. Jeff, 
thanks for all the hard work. For my two cents, if you were to 
suggest a voluntary (given your stated feelings about requiring an 
update fee) fee of $5 to $10, it would not be unreasonable. I suspect 
that many would kick in, I would.
7410

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 4:47pm
Subject: Re: What is the current version of the desktop?

 
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, easy123.rm wrote:

> Currently I have Shadow Desktop 1.1.0. Is this the most current
> release version? How can I get the current Beta version or reasonably
> stable Alpha version?

	The current desktop is 1.1.0 (though there are two version of
1.1.0 around; don't ask). The conduit is in alpha and beta right now (see
shadow-test for alphas, and shadow-desktop for betas of desktop related
stuff). A newer conduit will be out tonight, and perhaps an alpha desktop,
both in shadow-test (since they're alphas). The desktop will feature drag
and drop and "push" commands added and maybe some clipboard commands,
though I'm not sure about that just yet.

> BTW:  There are several palm programs that always amaze me as to what
> can be done on such a small simple system as the palm OS. Jeff, thanks
> for all the hard work. For my two cents, if you were to suggest a
> voluntary (given your stated feelings about requiring an update fee)
> fee of $5 to $10, it would not be unreasonable. I suspect that many
> would kick in, I would.

	I have been tempted to put a 4th product on my webstore;
"donation", where you can buy as many as you want, at "$1" each. But I
don't like to look like I'm needy.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7411

From: jpmv27  <jpmv27@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 6:49pm
Subject: Re: A few ideas?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "tsuchy" <tsuchy@y...> wrote:
> 
> - Grafitti Shortcuts for Zoom and UnZoom ?
> 

I second that one too. Since there's a finite number of shortcuts 
available, perhaps Zoom could be turned into a toggle and a single 
shortcut be used, effectively, for both zoom and unzoom.

MV
7412

From: igglet_  <abhudgens@c...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 7:14pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade pricing

 
As the guy who argued so strongly a few weeks ago that you should 
make sure your website reflected your pricing intent for upgrades, 
please don't misunderstand that to mean I don't *love* Shadow.  
Although "free" is good <smile>, I admit I'd happily pay a reasonable 
upgrade fee (and $5-$10 surely fits my definition of "reasonable").  
Thanks again for your support of restructuring my lists to eliminate 
the delay.  --Bryan

> > BTW:  There are several palm programs that always amaze me as to 
what
> > can be done on such a small simple system as the palm OS. Jeff, 
thanks
> > for all the hard work. For my two cents, if you were to suggest a
> > voluntary (given your stated feelings about requiring an update 
fee)
> > fee of $5 to $10, it would not be unreasonable. I suspect that 
many
> > would kick in, I would.
> 

> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7413

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: A few ideas?

 
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, jpmv27 wrote:

> > - Grafitti Shortcuts for Zoom and UnZoom ?
> 
> I second that one too. Since there's a finite number of shortcuts 
> available, perhaps Zoom could be turned into a toggle and a single 
> shortcut be used, effectively, for both zoom and unzoom.

	Zoom is not a toggle; once zoomed, you can zoom in more, or
unzoom.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7414

From: bryanhutcheson  <bryan.hutcheson@t...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:08pm
Subject: Exporting date information

 
Jeff / Others,

Is there any way of including the date information (target, start,
finish) within shadow files exported to the memo pad.

I've noticed that the priority is included if the list exported is a
tasklist but I haven't managed to set anything up to export the dates.

I for one would find this extremely useful. If it's not possible at
the moment can we have this as a future feature Jeff?

Bryan
7415

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:22pm
Subject: Re: Exporting date information

 
On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, bryanhutcheson wrote:

> Is there any way of including the date information (target, start,
> finish) within shadow files exported to the memo pad.

	I don't think the memopad export includes this information, due to
memopad entries being very limited in size, and us not knowing any good
way of formatting them :)

	The desktop has better export supports, btw.

> I've noticed that the priority is included if the list exported is a
> tasklist but I haven't managed to set anything up to export the dates.
> 
> I for one would find this extremely useful. If it's not possible at
> the moment can we have this as a future feature Jeff?

	I forget, but did you try the memo html export? or the DOC
export? I've not looked at those subsystems in awhile so I forget the
exact content included.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7416

From: jpmv27  <jpmv27@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 9:34pm
Subject: Re: A few ideas?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, jpmv27 wrote:
> 
> > > - Grafitti Shortcuts for Zoom and UnZoom ?
> > 
> > I second that one too. Since there's a finite number of shortcuts 
> > available, perhaps Zoom could be turned into a toggle and a 
single 
> > shortcut be used, effectively, for both zoom and unzoom.
> 
> 	Zoom is not a toggle; once zoomed, you can zoom in more, or
> unzoom.
> 

Oops, you're right. I guess we would need two shortcuts then.

MV
7417

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 10:57pm
Subject: Mac folks..

 
If you wish to be involved in alpha OSX Shadow Desktop and conduit
testing, join shadow-test mailing list. If you want to get into beta tests
of it, join shadow-desktop mailing list. The desktop is primitive but very
useful, and once the Mac side goes alpha, it'll be all growth :)

	The new windows conduit is in beta in shadow-desktop, and I expect
the 1.2.1 windows desktop to go beta in a couple of days. With those in
beta, the Mac stuff will start to go to alpha in just a couple of weeks.

	I am going to target OSX to begin with, and perhaps only OSX,
given the lower OS9 votes in the polls, and the fact Apple is dropping OS9
entirely. I'm likely going to target Jaguar, OSX 10.2, due to its
popularity and superiority over OSX 10.0 and 10.1.

	Mailing lists:
http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/maillist.html

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7418

From: ooookid  <ooookid@y...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 0:17am
Subject: Re: Shadow Desktop Picture

 
good good, pretty much what I think about...at least u can take other 
outliner's desktop for reference and beat them allllllll.

kinda can't wait to see the new powerful dekstop! haha, too much 
pressure on u these days? :)

(stable and secure are always NO. 1 issue)


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Oct 2002, ooookid wrote:
> 
> > Hi, dude, I upload one pic in the Photos Ablum (desktop 
view.pic), 
> > check it out please....cause my shabby English, I just draw a 
desktop 
> > which I think is close to the one I want...just a "skeleton", as 
I 
> > can not put "DONE" that small square or the collapse/expand arrow 
or 
> > other stuff in this pic....
> 
> 	Looks sort of like a spreadsheet view.
> 
> 	The view I'm intending on building is like a spreadsheet.. 
a grid
> if cells. There will be a number column, the title text column 
(widest), a
> column for checked, the dates, some other stuff. Maybe a button to 
click
> on to view the attached note. Then you can cursor around and mess 
with it.
> 
> 	I have to decide how I want to handle and display and edit 
the
> indentation level of items..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7419

From: Tom Curley  <tcurley@c...>
Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 8:22pm
Subject: Re: Features (fwd)

 
Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> 	It is possible; I've implemented it partially in the past as a
> proof of concept, but it always takes up a large chunk of screen so I've
> ignored it. ie: Its really just a catenation of parent display.. so I'd
> allow it for whatever numbering you've selected. So it is conceivable
> you'd want:
> 
> 	1.II.c (being the same as 1.2.3)
> 
> 	It quickly degrades though..
> 
> 	I.II.III.IV is half your screen :/

Obviously Roman numerals would not be the best choice! :-)
I do like your idea of making it possible with any numbering method
though - you never know when it might be the perfect solution!

Thanks for the reply!  I find the Palm software that is the highest
quality is supported by individuals like yourself who interact often
with the users - keep up the great work!

TAC
7420

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 3:20am
Subject: Re: A few ideas?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> > - A grafitti shortcut to "List Options" ?
> 
>How often do you go to this option, that you'd want a shortcut to
>it? (ie: It likely shouldn't be available from the List menu or as a
> shortcut, as it woudl be "clutterous" to the List menu which is already
> quite full and cutting off on some units :) (and I don't know if
> clutterous is a word, but I like it :)

i vote for "clutterous". it is pleasing! actually, for changing the
categories for exported todos, when a file contains items of different
types (my todo cats are arranged by location, so it might make sense
when i'm dealing with a project that crosses multiple locations.


>"Demote all children" makes no sense -- if they're children, they
>are already demoted ;)


Actually, i meant promote! but "Cut/Copy all children" would probably
be more useful than this anyway...

tom!
7421

From: Chris Harlepp  <charlepp@c...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:58pm
Subject: Beta Conduit

 
Jeff: where on the codejedi site are the links to download and beta test the new Windows conduit and the new desktop when it's ready for beta? Couldn't find them...
Chris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7422

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:47pm
Subject: Newbie

 
I'm new to Palm - and I'm trying to find a good hierachical note taker. I'm looking at Bonzai, Listpro and Shadow. The first 2 have good desktop clients - Shadow's is under development I belive. I have a Clie and like the high res full screen option in the other (which is missing in Shadow). The other applications also seem simpler to understand. 

I'm reluctant to right offf Shadow at this early stage - just because I gues I don't fully understand it. Are there any historical docs / examples / tutorials (beyond those on the codejedi site) which  a simpleton such as myself could follow - and "see the light"

One think I can't see how to do in Shadow is to have a list of items - flag those things which need to be done, and then subsequently make them as complete when done. - You only seem to have %complete to work with. (Again I'm missing something?)

Suse me if his is a daft question - its just that Palm apps work so very differently to Psion (whcih is where I came from)
Thx
Graham
7423

From: fwyleung  <fwyleung@y...>
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2002 9:42am
Subject: creating and hiding private list

 
can Jeff add the feature of making certain list private in the new 
version of shadow ? I think many users share would find this useful. 
Thanks.
7424

From: earlofmar11  <vanstraelen.marc@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 14, 2002 8:00pm
Subject: Which small font to use ?

 
I've just installed FontBucket, and now I'm looking for a font that 
would allow me to have as much informatin as possible on the screen 
in Shadow, while remaining easy to read.

I use monochrome, low-res devices (Palm m500 and Visor Neo). As a 
reference, I also have HandyShopper, which has a built-in small font 
that I find very readable.

Can anyone indicate which FontBucket font comes closest to this, and 
where I can obtain it? Of course, if you have a better suggestion, 
you're welcome!

Marc.
7425

From: Ken Latham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 5:33am
Subject: Re: Which small font to use ?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "earlofmar11" <vanstraelen.marc@s...>
wrote:
> I've just installed FontBucket, and now I'm looking for a font that 
> would allow me to have as much informatin as possible on the screen 
> in Shadow, while remaining easy to read.
> 
> I use monochrome, low-res devices (Palm m500 and Visor Neo). As a 
> reference, I also have HandyShopper, which has a built-in small
font 
> that I find very readable.
> 
> Can anyone indicate which FontBucket font comes closest to this,
and 
> where I can obtain it? Of course, if you have a better suggestion, 
> you're welcome!
> 
> Marc.

I don't have HandyShopper, so I can't say if this is similar...

I use "Rockwell Condensed 10pt" for normal text ...
... and "Compact (Bold) 9pt" for bold text.

Hope this helps.

Ken
7426

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:35pm
Subject: Re: Beta Conduit

 
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Chris Harlepp wrote:

> Jeff: where on the codejedi site are the links to download and beta
> test the new Windows conduit and the new desktop when it's ready for
> beta? Couldn't find them...

	I don't list links to alphas and betas directly; I don't want
people getting into trouble "by accident" (people getting betas when they
think they are full public releases). As such, you get informed about
alphas in shadow-test mailing list, and betas in shadow-desktop and
shadow-discuss.

	For instance, the new conduit work goes like this:

	Alpha test until beta quality (no installer)
	Beta in shadow-desktop until more mature/kinks-out (no installer)
	Beta in shadow-discuss and shadow-desktop as actual beta
		(installer)

	For handheld alphas and betas we don't interact with
shadow-desktop, but the process is otherwise the same.

	So join shadow-test if you like, or shadow-desktop for early
desktop betas. I think the conduit and desktop are of beta quality now so
will likely go to shadow-discuss and shadow-desktop both today very soon.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7427

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:40pm
Subject: Re: Newbie

 
On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> I'm new to Palm - and I'm trying to find a good hierachical note
> taker. I'm looking at Bonzai, Listpro and Shadow. The first 2 have
> good desktop clients - Shadow's is under development I belive. I have
> a Clie and like the high res full screen option in the other (which is
> missing in Shadow). The other applications also seem simpler to
> understand.

	Shadow has probably the better of the high resolution modes; we
call it Mixed resolution mode for various nitpicky reasons. Its there in
global preferenences.. see the Reference Guide.

	Our desktop is reasonably solid and does what 80% of people need
(though less than they want). An improved desktop is coming out very soon
which fixes a few issues and adds some of the basic essentials, and is
what I'd say about 85% of what people need. Once I get the Mac alpha out
in a bit, I'll be on the desktop feature growth binge, so expect lots of
changes over the next few months.

> I'm reluctant to right offf Shadow at this early stage - just because
> I gues I don't fully understand it. Are there any historical docs /
> examples / tutorials (beyond those on the codejedi site) which a
> simpleton such as myself could follow - and "see the light"

	We don't have an "easy to read user guide" yet. The Quick Start
shows the very asics, and the Reference Guide hits oyu over the head with
details :)

	I'mbiased, but heres my thoughts: Shadow is by far the most
feature packed on the handheld. On the desktop we're weaker, but not by
much. Bonsai has a better desktop and weaker handheld. Shadow is always
under development.

> One think I can't see how to do in Shadow is to have a list of items -
> flag those things which need to be done, and then subsequently make
> them as complete when done. - You only seem to have %complete to work
> with. (Again I'm missing something?)

	What do you mean? You can have checkboxes and/or progress %age as
you see fit. You can mass uncheck or check if you want. You can link out
to todo and datebook and Shadow syncs the checked/complete status with
them. I think we've covered all the bases :)

	Sorry for my rush.. on my way out another door. Let us know if I
missed the mark, or exactly what your'e looking for and I'll try and let
you know :)

> Suse me if his is a daft question - its just that Palm apps work so
> very differently to Psion (whcih is where I came from)

	Psion.. nice machines. Newton.. nice machines. I miss them both :(

	Questions are good; bring 'em on! :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7428

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:42pm
Subject: Re: creating and hiding private list

 
On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, fwyleung wrote:

> can Jeff add the feature of making certain list private in the new 
> version of shadow ? I think many users share would find this useful. 

	I will likely be adding a "password" to each list, though it won't
be more than a password. When I poll people, and base don number of emails
received about it, hiding of lists and items is a low wish list item for
most people (ie: I get 3 or 4 emails a month about it, as opposed to abot
20 requests a day for Mac desktop :)

	I will definitely get to it, though.

	One thing to note: Palm's privacy show/hide stuff is 100%
nont-security. It only stops prying kids and wives.. it doesnt' stop
black-hats. If you want security, buy a 3rd party encryption tool. No app
gives any real security besides those. Show/hide doesn't cut it, and when
I add passwords, its something that can be defeated if someone steals your
unit. (All palm applications suffer this weakness, except when you use
encryption well)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7429

From: ::.jay.west  <email@j...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:43pm
Subject: Re: Which small font to use ?

 
I would suggest a font called Squaresdance N (narrow) 9pt. Not sure which
font group they are with but definitely one of the ones on HandsHigh.com

Letters are 3 pixels wide while most other small fonts are 4 pixels wide.
Some of the letters are a bit wacky but for the most port it is the tightest
type I have found for a non high-res Palm. I set the same font for the Bold
font as well and just use highlight to colour highlight (red) on particular
items I want to highlight. I am using a Prism.

j.




> From: "earlofmar11" <vanstraelen.marc@s...>
> Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:00:02 -0000
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Which small font to use ?
> 
> I've just installed FontBucket, and now I'm looking for a font that
> would allow me to have as much informatin as possible on the screen
> in Shadow, while remaining easy to read.
> 
> I use monochrome, low-res devices (Palm m500 and Visor Neo). As a
> reference, I also have HandyShopper, which has a built-in small font
> that I find very readable.
> 
> Can anyone indicate which FontBucket font comes closest to this, and
> where I can obtain it? Of course, if you have a better suggestion,
> you're welcome!
> 
> Marc.
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>
7430

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
This is the first public beta of the "Kitchen Sync" update
:) (sorry, I just can't let that go without using it a few times *g*)

	This is a Windows installer version; for Mac and Unix folks, the
handheld is still 2.5.6 beta and was previously announced. Mac and Unix
desktops and such are going to go full swing soon, once this version is
out of the way.

	After you run the installer, you will have:

ShadowPlan 2.5.6 on your handheld
ShadowSync 0.9.0 on your handheld
Shadow Conduit 1.9.4 on your desktop
Shadow Desktop 1.2.2 on your desktop
Manuals for 2.5.0 on your desktop (not yet updated for new content)

	Theres lots of new stuff in here, so I'll list off the hilights
and you can discover the little things on your own :)

	o) You can now offload Shadow Plan to an expansion card or the
like; it is not needed in main memory during sync. Save yourself some
memory :)

	o) ShadowSync is needed in main memory during sync, but its only 4
or 5K and tries to hide itself from you, so you won't notice it barely at
all. You can't run it from your launcher, but don't get smart and move it
with your file mover utilities.. sync will fail (gracefully) without it.

	o) Shadow 2.5.6 has the two-tap-tagging and various minor
goodies; its not changed since 2.5.6 beta release a few weeks ago.

	o) Shadow Conduit 1.9.4 is essentuially 3/4 all new. Be sure to
check your Custom settings to make them the way you want them. No more
item duplication unless you want it, and no more sync problems.. just push
the hotsync and go. If you manage to crash it somehow, let me know.. but
you're still safe. Just push hotsync and go again and you're okay.. this
conduit is designed ground up to survive all sorts of horrible things, and
to handle all sync situations intelligently.

	o) Let me know if you like the progress bar while syncing :) It
shoudl let you knwo what is going on, since this conduit is a little
slower than the old one (due to the many safety measures)

	o) Desktop now supports drag and drop, and "push"/promote/demote
buttons to move items around; various little fixes all over the place, and
some simple improvements. Edit titles right in the tree panel, for
instance. Pasting from MSWord and IE and the like is now functioning
better (strips out all the Palm-illegal junk). Save-as HTML will now print
nicely in IE (international included). Print and print-preview now honour
linebreaks and have some various little fixes. Autonumbering and custom
saved views are honoured through sync (not lost anymore). Funky file links
are kept.

	The conduit and desktop are the main focus here; the desktop has
only small improvements, but I think they will greatly enhance your usage
experience of the desktop. Your whole experience will be better since the
conduit is very robust and intelligent now.. set your options and forget,
never needing to touch them again. It'll durvive power failures and
crashes, and shouldn't crash or wedge on its own. If you have *any*
problem with the desktop or conduit, please let me know! In general, just
push sync again and you're good to go, and it shouldn't ever crash out on
its own. Never worry abot items going up or down levels after a sync
again!

	Be sure to set your Custom options in the conduit; click in your
bottom right on the Hotsync icon, then pick Custom, Shadow Plan, and
Change..

	PLEASE post your thoughts.. good, bad, opinions, whatever. I need
to know if it works and how well just as much as if it doesn't work, so I
can keep a tally by OS version the success rates. I'm pretty confident in
this sucker, but I need your feedback to be sure!

	Get it here, and get back to me and the forums as soon as you can!

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow26b1.zip

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7431

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 4:10pm
Subject: RE: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
Everything looks good so far.

Stupid question-- is it not possible to delete tags altogether?  I have
tags for each of my employees at the store. One of them quit, and now I
can't figure out how to get rid of the tag for his name in the people
category. I tried the details box, but there's no delete option.

Am I missing something here??

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
7432

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 6:29pm
Subject: RE: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Everything looks good so far.
> 
> Stupid question-- is it not possible to delete tags altogether?  I have
> tags for each of my employees at the store. One of them quit, and now I
> can't figure out how to get rid of the tag for his name in the people
> category. I tried the details box, but there's no delete option.
> 
> Am I missing something here??

	I do need to add a delete button don't I? The problem is that
deleting the tag doesn't make it "gone".. it would make it "broken" for
the items dependign on it. I could then make a "clear all broken
tags" option..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7433

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 10:21pm
Subject: Re: Newbie

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	I'mbiased, but heres my thoughts: Shadow is by far the most
> feature packed on the handheld. On the desktop we're weaker, but not by
> much. Bonsai has a better desktop and weaker handheld. Shadow is always
> under development.
......
> 	What do you mean? You can have checkboxes and/or progress %age as
> you see fit. You can mass uncheck or check if you want. You can link out
> to todo and datebook and Shadow syncs the checked/complete status with
> them. I think we've covered all the bases :)
Probably you have - Here are the comments I've been accumulating over the past couple of days. Please bear with me..

- Tap and hold - Delay on this seems rather large - is it adjustable?

- Ledger lines on display - only works in "Mixed Mode" on my Clie - not with Hi Res Assistant (Known issue I assume)

- Cannot see how to highlight or filter across lists. i.e. if I have 1 list for each project I'm working on - I cannot see how to give me a list of what I need to do this week (without visiting every list). Do I just have to have 1 huge list with everything in it (doesn't really grab me).. should I try linking them to the TODO manager and using that? (Do dates go over OK?)

- Having variable font size sounds great (I'll have to look into FontBucket/Hack - mixed res default fonts are way too small).. however I would like to make use of the extra rows that removing the virtual graffiti area would do on the Clie. Happens in QuickOffice / Docs to Go / ListPro / Bonzai Project@H... etc etc

- List / flagging I mentioned before. Say I have a shopping list of 100+ items. I check the items I need to buy. When going round the store I want to quickly identify that I have those items as I find them, without losing the original list (Print out as a receipt). Sometime after I "check out", I want to group reset all the items I just bought to be available to buy again. I can do that in Listpro and HandyShopper. I cannot see how to do that in Shadow Plan

- Tagging - I just must get my head round this!!... 

I feel that Shadow CAN do everything I want.. and much more. It does feel like the most powerful product on in the market (from what I have seen).. its a great price.. I just can't seem to get my head round it in place.

Just downloaded 2.6 beta and the desktop app. The installer seemed to die on my machine when installing - it hadn't though - it just took about 2 mins to actually get up and DO something (other than "please wait")! (What was keeping it so busy???)

Oh Dammit - I'll buy it!! Why am I dithering anyway! ;-)

Regards
Graham
7434

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:35pm
Subject: Re: Newbie

 
> Oh Dammit - I'll buy it!! Why am I dithering anyway! ;-)

Registration went smoothly.. Received code no problem :-) Makes a 
change for online transactions to work!!

Do you still answer questions now you have the reg fee?? <grin>
Thx
Graham
7435

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 0:15am
Subject: Re: Re: Newbie

 
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> - Tap and hold - Delay on this seems rather large - is it adjustable?

	No; it is approx 1 second for reasons that supporting partial
seconds on Palm OS can be "OS version specific" and I want to maximize
compatability, not minimize it.. especially with OS5 around the corner. So
no funky tricks, which means sticking to 1s intervals. Perhaps later OS4
you can do it without tricks, but certainly not OS3, and not sure about
OS5, and certianly not OS2, etc :)

> - Ledger lines on display - only works in "Mixed Mode" on my Clie -
> not with Hi Res Assistant (Known issue I assume)

	A bug in the Clie OS actually. Shadow pushes the envelope and
finds all the OS bugs :P In HRA if you draw backgroudn colours while also
using mono icons and some HRA text, it crashes the unit. Its HRA crashing
though, not the application. So the best we cna do is to detect when a
crash would occur and turn off the background painting at that time. It
shows up on units without that bug.

> - Cannot see how to highlight or filter across lists. i.e. if I have 1
> list for each project I'm working on - I cannot see how to give me a
> list of what I need to do this week (without visiting every list). Do
> I just have to have 1 huge list with everything in it (doesn't really
> grab me).. should I try linking them to the TODO manager and using
> that? (Do dates go over OK?)

	You can do either; flatten by linking to ToDo or Datebook, or use
larger lists. Many people use larger lists with fancy custom filters or
tag filters to show them the right things. ie: Other Palm apps don't even
let you havbe mroe than one file, but here you have the option. The PDA's
dont' have the horsepower to open a pile of lists, so if you need to
filter across lists, join those lists into one larger one, or use file
links to jump around, or the "recent files" popup to jump around. (ie:
Consider.. I've got more than 100 lists, abotu a meg of data. No way the
poor Palm is going to be able to filter across that much stuff at once)

> - Having variable font size sounds great (I'll have to look into
> FontBucket/Hack - mixed res default fonts are way too small).. however
> I would like to make use of the extra rows that removing the virtual
> graffiti area would do on the Clie. Happens in QuickOffice / Docs to
> Go / ListPro / Bonzai Project@H... etc etc

	I will be supporting virtual grafitti once I nail down some of the
desktop side stuff.

> - List / flagging I mentioned before. Say I have a shopping list of
> 100+ items. I check the items I need to buy. When going round the
> store I want to quickly identify that I have those items as I find
> them, without losing the original list (Print out as a receipt).
> Sometime after I "check out", I want to group reset all the items I
> just bought to be available to buy again. I can do that in Listpro and
> HandyShopper. I cannot see how to do that in Shadow Plan

	Ahh; so checkboxes have only 2 states, and you need three. You
could perhaps use tags.. define 3 tags.. "want to buy", "have bought" and
"don't care". Using the tag column and "Swap tag" will make it a snap.

> - Tagging - I just must get my head round this!!...

	Shadow is full of power features that take a bit to figure out,
but you'll need when you become advanced enough to know about them :)

> I feel that Shadow CAN do everything I want.. and much more. It does
> feel like the most powerful product on in the market (from what I have
> seen).. its a great price.. I just can't seem to get my head round it
> in place.

	It'll come. Some of it is complicated, because its powerful.

> Just downloaded 2.6 beta and the desktop app. The installer seemed to
> die on my machine when installing - it hadn't though - it just took
> about 2 mins to actually get up and DO something (other than "please
> wait")! (What was keeping it so busy???)

	Unpacking a lot of stuff :)

> Oh Dammit - I'll buy it!! Why am I dithering anyway! ;-)

	Woo :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7436

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 0:16am
Subject: Re: Re: Newbie

 
On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> > Oh Dammit - I'll buy it!! Why am I dithering anyway! ;-)
> 
> Registration went smoothly.. Received code no problem :-) Makes a 
> change for online transactions to work!!
> 
> Do you still answer questions now you have the reg fee?? <grin>

	You know I had to debate answering this post ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7437

From: ooookid  <ooookid@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:28am
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
Jeff, maybe others are quite satisfied.....but to be honest, I am  a 
little disappointed at the new desktop. I didn't see any significant 
improvement and what's more:

1. no Chinese support.
2. Every time I close it, crash on my winxp Pro.

I have tried bonsai, its desktop is more close to my need . I can 
set "column", add what I need like "start date" "end 
date" "note" "link"....to show column, then the detail is shown at 
the bottom, the tree is on the left, and all my columns are on the 
right. Very nice view. Can you build something like that in the 
future? ( I hope you can have a try also, it is much more convenient, 
like when I push" Enter", another new item is created just like my 
old friend----brainforest...)

Anyway, I have been recommending your shadow to my friends these 
days...

good luck


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	This is the first public beta of the "Kitchen Sync" update
> :) (sorry, I just can't let that go without using it a few times 
*g*)
> 
> 	This is a Windows installer version; for Mac and Unix 
folks, the
> handheld is still 2.5.6 beta and was previously announced. Mac and 
Unix
> desktops and such are going to go full swing soon, once this 
version is
> out of the way.
> 
> 	After you run the installer, you will have:
> 
> ShadowPlan 2.5.6 on your handheld
> ShadowSync 0.9.0 on your handheld
> Shadow Conduit 1.9.4 on your desktop
> Shadow Desktop 1.2.2 on your desktop
> Manuals for 2.5.0 on your desktop (not yet updated for new content)
> 
> 	Theres lots of new stuff in here, so I'll list off the 
hilights
> and you can discover the little things on your own :)
> 
> 	o) You can now offload Shadow Plan to an expansion card or 
the
> like; it is not needed in main memory during sync. Save yourself 
some
> memory :)
> 
> 	o) ShadowSync is needed in main memory during sync, but its 
only 4
> or 5K and tries to hide itself from you, so you won't notice it 
barely at
> all. You can't run it from your launcher, but don't get smart and 
move it
> with your file mover utilities.. sync will fail (gracefully) 
without it.
> 
> 	o) Shadow 2.5.6 has the two-tap-tagging and various minor
> goodies; its not changed since 2.5.6 beta release a few weeks ago.
> 
> 	o) Shadow Conduit 1.9.4 is essentuially 3/4 all new. Be 
sure to
> check your Custom settings to make them the way you want them. No 
more
> item duplication unless you want it, and no more sync problems.. 
just push
> the hotsync and go. If you manage to crash it somehow, let me 
know.. but
> you're still safe. Just push hotsync and go again and you're okay.. 
this
> conduit is designed ground up to survive all sorts of horrible 
things, and
> to handle all sync situations intelligently.
> 
> 	o) Let me know if you like the progress bar while 
syncing :) It
> shoudl let you knwo what is going on, since this conduit is a little
> slower than the old one (due to the many safety measures)
> 
> 	o) Desktop now supports drag and drop, 
and "push"/promote/demote
> buttons to move items around; various little fixes all over the 
place, and
> some simple improvements. Edit titles right in the tree panel, for
> instance. Pasting from MSWord and IE and the like is now functioning
> better (strips out all the Palm-illegal junk). Save-as HTML will 
now print
> nicely in IE (international included). Print and print-preview now 
honour
> linebreaks and have some various little fixes. Autonumbering and 
custom
> saved views are honoured through sync (not lost anymore). Funky 
file links
> are kept.
> 
> 	The conduit and desktop are the main focus here; the 
desktop has
> only small improvements, but I think they will greatly enhance your 
usage
> experience of the desktop. Your whole experience will be better 
since the
> conduit is very robust and intelligent now.. set your options and 
forget,
> never needing to touch them again. It'll durvive power failures and
> crashes, and shouldn't crash or wedge on its own. If you have *any*
> problem with the desktop or conduit, please let me know! In 
general, just
> push sync again and you're good to go, and it shouldn't ever crash 
out on
> its own. Never worry abot items going up or down levels after a sync
> again!
> 
> 	Be sure to set your Custom options in the conduit; click in 
your
> bottom right on the Hotsync icon, then pick Custom, Shadow Plan, and
> Change..
> 
> 	PLEASE post your thoughts.. good, bad, opinions, whatever. 
I need
> to know if it works and how well just as much as if it doesn't 
work, so I
> can keep a tally by OS version the success rates. I'm pretty 
confident in
> this sucker, but I need your feedback to be sure!
> 
> 	Get it here, and get back to me and the forums as soon as 
you can!
> 
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow26b1.zip
> 
> 		Jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7438

From: Tom & Christiane Moughan  <moughan@e...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:27am
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
Hi Jeff!

For the installation, the program defaulted on C:\.  I thought it found the
previous install the last time on my D:\ drive.  I changed this so it wrote over
the old version.  Didn't want two installs

When I sync'd the first time, I went to work on removing duplicates.  I had a
lot and ended up doing Alt-I, D, Y <arrow down> for about 5 minutes.  Is it
possible to add a preference to not acknowledge these deletes?   Better:  Can
you enable the Del key to toggle delete item and undelele item for this? I think
I noticed that the current line marker reset to the top of the list for each
Delete action until I had marked two or three for deletion.  These deleted lines
were all at the top level and sequencial

With the current setup, I found it easier to demote a long list of deletable
lines under the first deletable one (Demote icon + <arrow down>), then go back
and delete the parent.

The drop and draw worked ok.  I had some long lists, and I was not able to drag
"above" or "below" the items displayed in the window, ie. the items did not
scroll up or down when the dragging mouse went above or below

Lastly, on the Hotsync with the new conduit... Since I was checking the
shadowplan config prior to syncing, and then again after, I noticed that if I
checked the Custom settings AFTER via a right mouse click in the system tray, my
system would freeze. When I Alt-Cntl-Deleted to End the Hotsync task, everything
worked again.  Could the new conduit not be "cleaning up" after itself with
Hotsync, somehow

>> Tom
7439

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 0:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, ooookid wrote:

> Jeff, maybe others are quite satisfied.....but to be honest, I am  a 
> little disappointed at the new desktop. I didn't see any significant 
> improvement and what's more:

	I never promised anything hude right away ;) But it is huge.. the
conduit is the main focus. Its much smarter and more reliable and will
make peoples lives much better. With every other conduit in the world, you
have to fiddle with Custom settings every time you chaneg locations. For
some people, they sync at work and home, and have to fiddle with 5 or 10
conduits on each end every day. Shadow conduit is smart and needn't do
that. Thats the sort of little thing that is very important. Besides all
that, the conduit needs to be mega solid for peopel to have trust and
happiness, and it will be a foundation for growth of the desktop. The
desktop is now free to grow.

	The philosophy is like this; you can have crap now, or work
later. You can have the work in one big chunk a year from now, or yo can
get baby steps all along the year, making use of the new stuff as it
comes. So woudl you rather wait a long time for a big impressive update,
or woudl you like o get the benefit *right now* from the first
installment?

	The choice is simple, right?

> 1. no Chinese support.

	It has Chinese support if your primary setup is Chinese. I don't
have a Chinese Windows around, but if you have one and its set into
Chinese mode, it works.

> 2. Every time I close it, crash on my winxp Pro.

	Really? Any details? Have you closed all the subwindows first?

	Sadly, much of the "crash on close" issue is related to bugs in
the cross platform toolkit I'm using; I'm upgrading very soon to a new
version of it, but its a lot of work, so that will be post-release. 

	It shouldn't be frequent however. I will investigate. I've got a
WinXP pro install around.

> I have tried bonsai, its desktop is more close to my need . I can 
> set "column", add what I need like "start date" "end 
> date" "note" "link"....to show column, then the detail is shown at 
> the bottom, the tree is on the left, and all my columns are on the 
> right. Very nice view. Can you build something like that in the 
> future? ( I hope you can have a try also, it is much more convenient, 
> like when I push" Enter", another new item is created just like my 
> old friend----brainforest...)

	It takes time; as above.. you can't have it overnight. Shadow is
superior on the handheld, and Bonsai is superior on the desktop. I'm
catching up on their desktop. Course, you're paying more for Bonsai and
their handheld leaves a lot to be desired..

	Anyway, it comes in baby steps. You can't have it all at once. I
involve the users (you!) inthe process, so in the end its exzctly what you
wanted. If you got it al at once, who knows.. you might hate it, since you
weren't involved.

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7440

From: ooookid  <ooookid@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:14pm
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
Many thanks, Jeff. I totally agree with you. I should be patient and 
you definitely will catch up on that.

About Chinese support, I should be correct. I set Simplified Chinese 
as default language in regional options, thus I can read and write on 
my ENglish Winxp Pro. But when I put Chinese in shadow desktop, if in 
item left, the detail right will show up weird character and vice 
versa.

About "crash", I didn't close subwindows first, directly close the 
main window of shadowplan.


Keep moving ahead, dude, you are the best.


a
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>> 
> 	It takes time; as above.. you can't have it overnight. 
Shadow is
> superior on the handheld, and Bonsai is superior on the desktop. I'm
> catching up on their desktop. Course, you're paying more for Bonsai 
and
> their handheld leaves a lot to be desired..
> 
> 	Anyway, it comes in baby steps. You can't have it all at 
once. I
> involve the users (you!) inthe process, so in the end its exzctly 
what you
> wanted. If you got it al at once, who knows.. you might hate it, 
since you
> weren't involved.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7441

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Tom & Christiane Moughan wrote:

> For the installation, the program defaulted on C:\.  I thought it
> found the previous install the last time on my D:\ drive.  I changed
> this so it wrote over the old version.  Didn't want two installs

	The installer isn't that smart. I've submitted that to the
installer builder guys in the past..

> When I sync'd the first time, I went to work on removing duplicates.  
> I had a lot and ended up doing Alt-I, D, Y <arrow down> for about 5
> minutes.  Is it possible to add a preference to not acknowledge these
> deletes?  Better:  Can you enable the Del key to toggle delete item
> and undelele item for this? I think I noticed that the current line
> marker reset to the top of the list for each Delete action until I had
> marked two or three for deletion.  These deleted lines were all at the
> top level and sequencial

	I will be adding preferences in later; right now the desktop
doesn't remember or have settings.

> With the current setup, I found it easier to demote a long list of
> deletable lines under the first deletable one (Demote icon + <arrow
> down>), then go back and delete the parent.

	ha, good trick :)

> The drop and draw worked ok.  I had some long lists, and I was not
> able to drag "above" or "below" the items displayed in the window, ie.
> the items did not scroll up or down when the dragging mouse went above
> or below

	Out of my control, too. I will probably rewrite the whole tree
widget instead of depending on Windows built in ones.

> Lastly, on the Hotsync with the new conduit... Since I was checking
> the shadowplan config prior to syncing, and then again after, I
> noticed that if I checked the Custom settings AFTER via a right mouse
> click in the system tray, my system would freeze. When I
> Alt-Cntl-Deleted to End the Hotsync task, everything worked again.  
> Could the new conduit not be "cleaning up" after itself with Hotsync,
> somehow

	Anyone else notice such a thing?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7442

From: Rita  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 2:56pm
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	This is the first public beta of the "Kitchen Sync" update
> :) (sorry, I just can't let that go without using it a few times 
*g*)

Bummer, I just bought a new computer with insufficient USB ports and 
I'm still waiting for hubby to install additional ones.  Looks like 
I'll have to sacrifice the printer or something If I want to try it 
out.  BTW, I'm finding that, without the ability to sync, I have to 
regularly breathe into paper bags :)  Hubby is not a handheld user 
and does not fully appreciate the sync ritual.

Rita
7443

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:15pm
Subject: Desktop with XP my comments

 
I'm a registered user for both the hh and desktop and I'm happy to 
say that the desktop installed beautifully no crashes, everything 
synced fine, despite it lacking some basic features, its still an 
improvement over the previous one, to be honest I didn't post my 
crashed and screwed views before cuz I was a bit "upset" but I'm 
happy to say I'm back to Shadow after a short hiatus, inputting items 
on a desktop is so much quicker its, nice, Jeff now that the desktop 
is workable and has room for growth, when is the hh version going to 
have support of tag categories and a few others things that have been 
mentioned before> just in case a couple of request:
Filtering Target Date: add This Month and Next Month
      "   Start Date: same thing 
          Finish Date: same thing

thanks but overall my experience is a positive one....yeah its very 
important to have a workable desktop, even though I love the HH, I 
actually dropped it for a while in search of simpler process, but now 
things should be better. 

my two cents
jledesma28
7444

From: geoffthieme  <geoffthieme@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 8:23pm
Subject: Complex Indent Custom Filter

 
For a Custom Filter, how do I say
DISPLAY (Indent level >= to 3)
WHEN ( (Indent level = 3) AND (Priority != 0) AND (Priority != 5) )

I think
(Indent level greater/equal to 3)
AND
( (Indent level equal 3) AND (Priority not equal 0) AND (Priority not 
equal 5) )
would do it, but I don't know how to set it up.

I was unable to come up with a solution using multiple "Reversed" 
rules or with "OR" groups. Is an "AND" group required?

Anyone know the solution?

Thanks,
Geoff
7445

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Complex Indent Custom Filter

 
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:

> For a Custom Filter, how do I say
> DISPLAY (Indent level >= to 3)
> WHEN ( (Indent level = 3) AND (Priority != 0) AND (Priority != 5) )

	I'm confused by the >=3 and ==3 assertions.. thats almost
contradictory :) Remember that matching child items forces a match of the
parents, so even with these, you'll still see the parent items above these
deeply nested items.

	Sounds like you want something like:
A	Indent >= 3
A	Priority != 0
A	Priority != 5

	Which is Indent >= 3 AND Priority != 0 AND Priority != 5?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7446

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:24pm
Subject: Re: Complex Indent Custom Filter

 
I think there is a difference here that needs to be explored further (when
you get back to the HH : )). As jeff said, Shadow currently displays all
parents when a match is made for a child. I think there is a group of users
that would like to see just the opposite, i.e; a match for a parent forces
a display of all children for that parent. So now the functionality is that
if the filter matches on level 3 of 5, Shadow displays 1,2, and 3. Some may
feel that a match at level 3 of 5 should display 3,4, and 5. Just wanted to
clarify the topic of discussion  ; )

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Complex Indent Custom Filter            
                    10/16/2002                                                                                     
                    04:09 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:

> For a Custom Filter, how do I say
> DISPLAY (Indent level >= to 3)
> WHEN ( (Indent level = 3) AND (Priority != 0) AND (Priority != 5) )

           I'm confused by the >=3 and ==3 assertions.. thats almost
contradictory :) Remember that matching child items forces a match of the
parents, so even with these, you'll still see the parent items above these
deeply nested items.

           Sounds like you want something like:
A          Indent >= 3
A          Priority != 0
A          Priority != 5

           Which is Indent >= 3 AND Priority != 0 AND Priority != 5?

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



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shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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7447

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:06pm
Subject: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
Thinks I've noticed which are not "quite right" on 2.6beta 1 (They may not have been right in other versions too... I've not had Shadow Plan long enought to know)

- When the required number of columns to display equals the screen width, the scroll bar gets in the way and messes up the display.

- When setting up a nw list, you get the OPT "sub options". If you select this, then anything that you had setup in the main preferences for the list is re-defaulted (like category for example) You need to either set these AFTER the options, or set the, save them and then adjust the OPTions

- Yep - The possibility of Tri state check boxes would be a useful enhancement (IMHO)

- Closing a list by swapping to another application appears to lose changes.  Exactly.. I cut/appended the contents of 1 list and pasted them into my new single list. I reorganised the hierarchy, swapped to the diary with a hardkey. I came back, and my changes were lost. When I repeated the process, I used the graphic X, to get back to the list menu, and this time all items were saved

BTW - Yep I'm getting really happy with tags and custom views. Looks really good. - Still haven't found a combination of fonts etc I like though (using Font Bucket). I want to see a longer list. Add another vote for your virtual graffiti enhancement :-)


Regards
Graham
7448

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:16pm
Subject: Jog dial support on filtered list

 
Again 2.6beta 1 - on Palm

If I create a filter which hides rows in a view (Oh THATS what they do ;-).. then if you use the Jog dial, it doesn't step through the displayed rows evenly. One jog 'click' may or may not correspond to moving the highlight down 1 visible record. It "feels" like it is stepping through them all - even if they are not visible.

Graham
7449

From: mzehner2000  <matt_zehner@p...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:30pm
Subject: Desktop crashes on exit in 2 situations

 
Jeff,

Just installed the new beta and overall the desktop is a great 
improvement - being able to move items around increases the 
usefulness exponentially!

However, I am getting Dr. Watson crashes (at least that's what I 
think they are - error dialog titled "Program Error" 
reads "Shadow.exe has generated errors and will be closed by Windows. 
You will need to restart the program.  An error log is being 
created." - and a button changes from Cancel to OK after the log is 
finished) upon closing the app in the following 2 situations (so far):

1) I open an existing file, print it (either with or without 
making/saving changes to it), close the sub-window, then close the 
app. HOWEVER, this is not happening with ALL files - I have one file 
that I cannot get to crash, but all my other existing files do crash 
every time I print them.  I have no idea what is unique about the 
file that won't crash!

2) I can also ALWAYS get the app to crash by doing the following: 
open the app, click the "send to handheld" button, cancel the dialog 
box without selecting anything, then bring up the Desktop Quick 
Reference from the Help menu, close it, then close the app.

I am running Windows 2000 Pro.  In the drwtsn32.log file, the error 
is being listed as follows: "Exception number: c0000005 (access 
violation)".  I can send you the full log if necessary.  Let me know 
if you need any other info.

HTH
Matt
7450

From: mzehner2000  <matt_zehner@p...>
Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:45pm
Subject: print setting problem

 
Jeff,

Also noticed a problem with the print function that is very annoying 
(but not as serious as the program crashing!).  Every time I print a 
file, Shadow is setting the print preferences to use A4 paper size, 
even though my 'system' print preference is set to Letter for the 
same printer (probably not an issue for you up there in Canada, but 
definitely an issue south of the border :-) ).  So, each time I print 
a doc, I have to go to Print/Layout tab/Advanced and change the 
setting back.  The change doesn't get saved, so if I have to print 
the doc again, even in the same session, I have to change it again.

Another (even more minor) print issue: in the Print Preview window 
(and in the "Print Pages..." field of the Print dialog), Shadow is 
always showing the total number of pages to be 999.

HTH
Matt
7451

From: Tom & Christiane Moughan  <moughan@e...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:22am
Subject: Re: [Shadow-desktop] Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
Hi Jeff!

For the installation, the program defaulted on C:\.  I thought it found the
previous install the last time on my D:\ drive.  I changed this so it wrote over
the old version.  Didn't want two installs

When I sync'd the first time, I went to work on removing duplicates.  I had a
lot and ended up doing Alt-I, D, Y <arrow down> for about 5 minutes.  Is it
possible to add a preference to not acknowledge these deletes?   Better:  Can
you enable the Del key to toggle delete item and undelele item for this? I think
I noticed that the current line marker reset to the top of the list for each
Delete action until I had marked two or three for deletion.  These deleted lines
were all at the top level and sequencial

With the current setup, I found it easier to demote a long list of deletable
lines under the first deletable one (Demote icon + <arrow down>), then go back
and delete the parent.

The drop and draw worked ok.  I had some long lists, and I was not able to drag
"above" or "below" the items displayed in the window, ie. the items did not
scroll up or down when the dragging mouse went above or below

Lastly, on the Hotsync with the new conduit... Since I was checking the
shadowplan config prior to syncing, and then again after, I noticed that if I
checked the Custom settings AFTER via a right mouse click in the system tray, my
system would freeze. When I Alt-Cntl-Deleted to End the Hotsync task, everything
worked again.  Could the new conduit not be "cleaning up" after itself with
Hotsync, somehow.

>> Tom
7452

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:43am
Subject: Re: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> Thinks I've noticed which are not "quite right" on 2.6beta 1 (They may
> not have been right in other versions too... I've not had Shadow Plan
> long enought to know)
> 
> - When the required number of columns to display equals the screen
> width, the scroll bar gets in the way and messes up the display.

	Depends on the unit and OS revision; I've not had a chance to
track it down yet :)

> - When setting up a nw list, you get the OPT "sub options". If you
> select this, then anything that you had setup in the main preferences
> for the list is re-defaulted (like category for example) You need to
> either set these AFTER the options, or set the, save them and then
> adjust the OPTions

	Reeeally? That subsystem hasn't been changed in a year so I'm
surprised no one has noticed..

> - Yep - The possibility of Tri state check boxes would be a useful
> enhancement (IMHO)

	Try Tags perhaps?

	Tristate can add ambiguity to progress completion and related
things.

> - Closing a list by swapping to another application appears to lose
> changes.  Exactly.. I cut/appended the contents of 1 list and pasted
> them into my new single list. I reorganised the hierarchy, swapped to
> the diary with a hardkey. I came back, and my changes were lost. When
> I repeated the process, I used the graphic X, to get back to the list
> menu, and this time all items were saved

	Closing through any means is treated the same. Something else must
be going on, or a naughty Hack. A keen eye you have, so if you can define
a list of steps to reproduce, let me know.

	Which OS version and unit?

> BTW - Yep I'm getting really happy with tags and custom views. Looks
> really good. - Still haven't found a combination of fonts etc I like
> though (using Font Bucket). I want to see a longer list. Add another
> vote for your virtual graffiti enhancement :-)

	:)

	FontHack is supported as well.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7453

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:45am
Subject: Re: Jog dial support on filtered list

 
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> If I create a filter which hides rows in a view (Oh THATS what they do
> ;-).. then if you use the Jog dial, it doesn't step through the
> displayed rows evenly. One jog 'click' may or may not correspond to
> moving the highlight down 1 visible record. It "feels" like it is
> stepping through them all - even if they are not visible.

	Keen eye again; another littrle thing I've not had time to get.
(ie: I worked hard and long to get Shadow 2.5 out, ignoring the desktop.
It is now the desktops turn except for critical things)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7454

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:48am
Subject: Re: print setting problem

 
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, mzehner2000 wrote:

> Also noticed a problem with the print function that is very annoying
> (but not as serious as the program crashing!).  Every time I print a
> file, Shadow is setting the print preferences to use A4 paper size,
> even though my 'system' print preference is set to Letter for the same
> printer (probably not an issue for you up there in Canada, but
> definitely an issue south of the border :-) ).  So, each time I print
> a doc, I have to go to Print/Layout tab/Advanced and change the
> setting back.  The change doesn't get saved, so if I have to print the
> doc again, even in the same session, I have to change it again.

	Its an issue with some of the toolkits I depend on; that will be
fixed in awhile.

> Another (even more minor) print issue: in the Print Preview window
> (and in the "Print Pages..." field of the Print dialog), Shadow is
> always showing the total number of pages to be 999.

	999 == all in this toolkit revision.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7455

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:49am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.6 beta 1

 
On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Rita wrote:

> > 	This is the first public beta of the "Kitchen Sync" update
> > :) (sorry, I just can't let that go without using it a few times 
> *g*)
> 
> Bummer, I just bought a new computer with insufficient USB ports and
> I'm still waiting for hubby to install additional ones.  Looks like
> I'll have to sacrifice the printer or something If I want to try it
> out.  BTW, I'm finding that, without the ability to sync, I have to
> regularly breathe into paper bags :)  Hubby is not a handheld user and
> does not fully appreciate the sync ritual.

	heh. Sync is backup.. thats important.

	Buy a USB hub?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7456

From: Ken Latham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:35am
Subject: Re: Desktop crashes on exit in 2 situations

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "mzehner2000" <matt_zehner@p...> wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
<snip>
> 2) I can also ALWAYS get the app to crash by doing the following: 
> open the app, click the "send to handheld" button, cancel the
dialog 
> box without selecting anything, then bring up the Desktop Quick 
> Reference from the Help menu, close it, then close the app.
> 
> I am running Windows 2000 Pro.  In the drwtsn32.log file, the error 
> is being listed as follows: "Exception number: c0000005 (access 
> violation)".  I can send you the full log if necessary.  Let me
know 
> if you need any other info.
> 
> HTH
> Matt

Jeff,

If it makes any difference, I can not get the (ALWAYS) crash to occur
under WinME.  Even though its a different OS, it may help you
eliminate suspects, so I thought I'd let you know.

Ken
7457

From: karjar358  <karjar@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:22am
Subject: HH Beta 2.6.1

 
Only installed the Handheld side so far at home, Desktop will go into 
on Friday when in the office. I see my request from early in the year 
for Toggle wordwrap has still not made it under the "V" menu. Not a 
big thing, but please keep it in mind when you get back to the 
handheld. For us guys with 160X160 (non clie!) I use cool font 7 
normal and bold to squeeze lots of items, but still with the tag 
column and todo link box,etc, not much real estate to see what an item 
is. Going tap.details. for each one not much fun either. I don't use 
the mini-edit feature.
jeff
7458

From: zaarde  <lists@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:41am
Subject: Re: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
Hi,
> > - When setting up a nw list, you get the OPT "sub options". If you
> > select this, then anything that you had setup in the main preferences
> > for the list is re-defaulted (like category for example) You need to
> > either set these AFTER the options, or set the, save them and then
> > adjust the OPTions
> 
> 	Reeeally? That subsystem hasn't been changed in a year so I'm
> surprised no one has noticed..

well, it's not the case on my Sony. When returning from opt, the
category  trigger / selector is not redrawn correctly (stay empty, but
has the right value). No setting of the main dialog seems to be
touched in any way.

Kind regards
Markus
7459

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:32am
Subject: New file uploaded to shadow-discuss

 
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the shadow-discuss 
group.

  File        : /shadlink121.zip 
  Uploaded by : rnlnero <rnlnero@y...> 
  Description : 2.6 beta 1 conduit breaks the origin stamp uniqueID, causing ShadowLink not to jump.   

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/files/shadlink121.zip 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

rnlnero <rnlnero@y...>
7460

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:39am
Subject: ShadowLink 1.2.1 uploaded to Yahoo Files

 
As a few of you have found out, the Shadow 2.6 beta 1 conduit breaks the
origin stamp uniqueID after a sync, causing ShadowLink not to jump.  I've
uploaded ShadowLink 1.2.1 to the Yahoo Files section.  On an invalid
uniqueID, this version jumps to the list but place you at the top (just like
if the ID is 0).  Then you can fix the origin stamps by re-saving the list.
A quick way to do that is to tap Detail, OK, and exit.

Ling
--
7461

From: dflyman2003  <dflyman@h...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 9:59am
Subject: Security of Desktop Redundancy / BetaTest Result

 
As a "lurker" to this group who is currently testing
ShadowPlan as the core to a "Getting Things Done" system on his palm 
I was anxious to try your latest Desktop Beta (Shadow 2.6beta1).  I 
have a Palm IIIxe that Syncs to an old Pentium 75 PC running Windows 
95 and to date your Shadow desktop trials have been unsuccessful on 
my system(likely in part because I never tried to troubleshoot  I was
just checking out the software). I am sure you will be pleased to 
hear that this latest beta version worked fine.

I should let you know why I think the desktop app is important. It is 
important to me not for the ability to manipulate the files as much 
as to provide the security of redundancy  should my Palm (heaven 
forbid) ever get lost or damaged I can still go to my desktop and 
rapidly and easily access what is becoming my Brain and Filing 
System. None-the-less desktop features are also nice and as you have 
stated yourself your desktop app still has a way to go to catch up 
with some competing outliners. I am pleased to see that your desktop 
app is rapidly catching-up.

Some Shadow 2.6 beta test feedback:

Yes I do like the sync progress screen. However mine keeps saying my 
files are only on handheld, and downloads them everytime  even
when it isn't the case.I have also made changes to a file on the
desktop and the changes appear not to be uploading to the Palm. Yes 
my custom conduit is set to two-way syncing  I am missing some
other 
setup?

On my system during setup I had the wait button for approx 10 
minutes  this is longer than I am used to  is it just my
system?

I would suggest you add an options/preferences button on the desktop 
so that you can modify the default directories where the desktop app 
looks for files. This beta keeps thinking my shadowplan files are in 
an old palm/user/shadowplan160 folder when they are in a 
palm/user/shadowplan folder  it's a pain to keep correcting
it. I don't know yet whether it will correct itself if I get rid of 
the shadowplan160 folder.

Please keep up the good work and continue to keep ShadowPlan 
reasonably priced, after all I am planning to become a registered 
user shortly.
7462

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:16pm
Subject: Re: HH Beta 2.6.1

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, karjar358 wrote:

> Only installed the Handheld side so far at home, Desktop will go into 
> on Friday when in the office. I see my request from early in the year 
> for Toggle wordwrap has still not made it under the "V" menu. Not a 
> big thing, but please keep it in mind when you get back to the 
> handheld. For us guys with 160X160 (non clie!) I use cool font 7 
> normal and bold to squeeze lots of items, but still with the tag 
> column and todo link box,etc, not much real estate to see what an item 
> is. Going tap.details. for each one not much fun either. I don't use 
> the mini-edit feature.

	Don't use the ME? I love the ME :)

	I'll see what I can do about the Toggle WW; I've got it on my list
of things to try very soon. It just keeps falling off radar :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7463

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:18pm
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to shadow-discuss

 
On 17 Oct 2002 shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>   File        : /shadlink121.zip 
>   Uploaded by : rnlnero <rnlnero@y...> 
>   Description : 2.6 beta 1 conduit breaks the origin stamp uniqueID, causing ShadowLink not to jump.   

	Ling,

	I'd change the description a touch; breaks the origin stamp "after
a sync of the given file, until you've opened the file on the handheld",
to be specific. Maybe add "new ShadowLinkHack jumps to file but not
spoecific item, when info isn't updated yet".

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7464

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:18pm
Subject: Re: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
> 	Reeeally? That subsystem hasn't been changed in a year so I'm
> surprised no one has noticed..
Yes - as pointed out in a later post - its a display issue. The 
Category appears to be retained - just not correctly displayed

> 
> > - Yep - The possibility of Tri state check boxes would be a useful
> > enhancement (IMHO)
> 
> 	Try Tags perhaps?
Mmmh - OK - not as quick to use though
> 


> 	Closing through any means is treated the same. Something else 
must
> be going on, or a naughty Hack. A keen eye you have, so if you can 
define
> a list of steps to reproduce, let me know.
> 
> 	Which OS version and unit?
Sony Clie NR70V OS 4.100000, 64MBStick (but running internally) I'm 
running the Clie hard-button hack and EasyLaunch under X-Master 

> --
> "It's murder out there. ...
You need a new sig <grin>
7465

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:21pm
Subject: Re: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
On another "bug"..
I have a list which continually applies a filter and view to it every 
time I open it. I need to manually remove the filter every time I go 
in. I've even then pressed SAVE... but still the filter gets re-
applied automatically next time I open the list

What do I need to do to stop this happening?
Graham
7466

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:25pm
Subject: Re: Security of Desktop Redundancy / BetaTest Result

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, dflyman2003 wrote:

> I was anxious to try your latest Desktop Beta (Shadow 2.6beta1).  I 
> have a Palm IIIxe that Syncs to an old Pentium 75 PC running Windows 
> 95 and to date your Shadow desktop trials have been unsuccessful on 
> my system(likely in part because I never tried to troubleshoot  I was
> just checking out the software). I am sure you will be pleased to 
> hear that this latest beta version worked fine.

	Win95 can be a pain to support; in the end I've drawn the line
around Win98, with Win95 as a "maybe" -- it depends on your othe
rinstallations and updates. A vanilla Win95 I think hasproblems rendering
the application due to all sorts of problems in the Win32 API as well as
missing things..

> I should let you know why I think the desktop app is important. It is
> important to me not for the ability to manipulate the files as much as
> to provide the security of redundancy  should my Palm (heaven forbid)
> ever get lost or damaged I can still go to my desktop and rapidly and
> easily access what is becoming my Brain and Filing System.
> None-the-less desktop features are also nice and as you have stated
> yourself your desktop app still has a way to go to catch up with some
> competing outliners. I am pleased to see that your desktop app is
> rapidly catching-up.

	As an aside.. even withotu Shadow Desktop, you get backups. Shadow
has Hotsync Manager backup each of your Shadow files, regardless of any
settings.

> Some Shadow 2.6 beta test feedback:
> 
> Yes I do like the sync progress screen. However mine keeps saying my
> files are only on handheld, and downloads them everytime  even when
> it isn't the case.I have also made changes to a file on the desktop
> and the changes appear not to be uploading to the Palm. Yes my custom
> conduit is set to two-way syncing  I am missing some other setup?

	Are you registered for the desktop? If not, it'll only sync at max
one file per sync, more or less chosen at random from your sync set files.

	If your'e curious, do a file find for and take a look at
"lastsync.txt", or send it to me personally (not to the group) to let you
know whats going on.

> On my system during setup I had the wait button for approx 10 
> minutes  this is longer than I am used to  is it just my
> system?

	That is a very klong time; I woudl guess about 2 minutes, but
thats very long :/ It is sadly out of my control.. the installer system I
use has this effect (a very long startup). I'd like to move to another
installer, but the main ones I "shoudl get" are a few thousand USD :/

> I would suggest you add an options/preferences button on the desktop
> so that you can modify the default directories where the desktop app
> looks for files. This beta keeps thinking my shadowplan files are in
> an old palm/user/shadowplan160 folder when they are in a
> palm/user/shadowplan folder  it's a pain to keep correcting it. I
> don't know yet whether it will correct itself if I get rid of the
> shadowplan160 folder.

	They must be in the ShadowPlan160 directory.. that is the current
repository. An old Shadowplan directory is no good. Its probably looking
in the right place.. it asks Palm Desktop where to look. You can consult
lastsync.txt though.. it should mention your correct directory,and it is
never wrong (thogh the desktop is sometimes wrong due to Palm Desktop
lieing to it :P)

> Please keep up the good work and continue to keep ShadowPlan
> reasonably priced, after all I am planning to become a registered user
> shortly.

	I have always tried to run a tight ship, so I'll always try and
keep the price down :)

	Being unregistered means you get only oen sync per hotsync
session. It will often download or upload other files though in the new
beta, to make it a little easier on you, but take a look at the
lastsync.txt; it shoudl say somethign about the registration limit being
hit.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7467

From: alwaysenuf  <alwaysenuf@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:25pm
Subject: Re: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
Just Noticed with the new beta that on a list that I have preffed to 
number on the top level, when i sync, i loose some but not all of the 
numbers. I thought this was addressed, but... I have to go to prefs 
and reset the numbering...
7468

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:30pm
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to shadow-discuss

 
My fat pinky hit the 'enter' key before I finished typing.  The description
in the Files folder is better ;-)

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] New file uploaded to shadow-discuss


> On 17 Oct 2002 shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >   File        : /shadlink121.zip
> >   Uploaded by : rnlnero <rnlnero@y...>
> >   Description : 2.6 beta 1 conduit breaks the origin stamp uniqueID,
causing ShadowLink not to jump.
>
> Ling,
>
> I'd change the description a touch; breaks the origin stamp "after
> a sync of the given file, until you've opened the file on the handheld",
> to be specific. Maybe add "new ShadowLinkHack jumps to file but not
> spoecific item, when info isn't updated yet".
>
> jeff
7469

From: Chris Harlepp  <charlepp@c...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:45pm
Subject: Beta results

 
Jeff: so far, so good; the new conduit is a HUGE improvement over the previous, and I hope it resolves some of the issues that I had before. I have tried two Hotsyncs, and in both cases the data flowed fine, but on the DT side, there were two new, blank "items" at the bottom of the list...have no idea why! I checked on the HH side (conduit was set to HH over DT), and it too had developed two blank items at the end.
That's all I can report so far. 
Mike Bryan is on track: there are a lot of Clie' users, me included. I'd love to see the entire screen area accesible. If it's not a major code-crunch issue, it would certainly add to Shadow's "differentiation factor" over some of the other outliners.
Will keep ya posted,
Chris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
7470

From: geoffthieme  <geoffthieme@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Complex Indent Custom Filter

 
Thats it. I'm looking for a filter that matchs something on level 3 
and then displays level 4, 5 ... (all sublevels/children). So I guess 
this is a new feature suggestion.

-Geoff

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> I think there is a difference here that needs to be explored 
further (when
> you get back to the HH : )). As jeff said, Shadow currently 
displays all
> parents when a match is made for a child. I think there is a group 
of users
> that would like to see just the opposite, i.e; a match for a parent 
forces
> a display of all children for that parent. So now the functionality 
is that
> if the filter matches on level 3 of 5, Shadow displays 1,2, and 3. 
Some may
> feel that a match at level 3 of 5 should display 3,4, and 5. Just 
wanted to
> clarify the topic of discussion  ; )
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
>                                                                     
                                               
>                     Jeff 
Mitchell                                                              
                    
>                     <support@s...        To:     shadow-
discuss@y...                                    
>                     eton.org>            
cc:                                                                   
    
>                                          Subject:     Re: [shadow-
discuss] Complex Indent Custom Filter            
>                     
10/16/2002                                                            
                         
>                     04:09 
PM                                                                    
                   
>                     
Please                                                                
                         
>                     respond 
to                                                                    
                 
>                     shadow-
discus                                                                
                  
>                     
s                                                                     
                         
>                                                                     
                                               
>                                                                     
                                               
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:
> 
> > For a Custom Filter, how do I say
> > DISPLAY (Indent level >= to 3)
> > WHEN ( (Indent level = 3) AND (Priority != 0) AND (Priority != 
5) )
> 
>            I'm confused by the >=3 and ==3 assertions.. thats almost
> contradictory :) Remember that matching child items forces a match 
of the
> parents, so even with these, you'll still see the parent items 
above these
> deeply nested items.
> 
>            Sounds like you want something like:
> A          Indent >= 3
> A          Priority != 0
> A          Priority != 5
> 
>            Which is Indent >= 3 AND Priority != 0 AND Priority != 5?
> 
>                      jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
7471

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:20pm
Subject: Choice of preferred application

 
Version 2.6beta1, (and presumably others) allows Shadowplan  to be 
selected as the preferred ToDO list manager!! When you then select a 
TODO.. it all falls over in a heap. (Guess it doesn't like invoking 
itself)

Should be a simple fix.
Regards
Graham
(PS - I really enjoy beta testing :-)
7472

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:18pm
Subject: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
Again - Clie NR70V, OS4.100000

When using Shadowplan single handed, I can navigate around a list 
with the jog dial, once the cursor is INSIDE the list. Once you 
select a list I cannot see how to get the highlight onto a list 
entry. You can scroll the list up and down OK, but you cannot 
actually select any entry. You **have** to tap the screen somewhere

Small bug in my view.
Graham
7473

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:26pm
Subject: Re: Security of Desktop Redundancy / BetaTest Result

 
> It is sadly out of my control.. the installer system I
> use has this effect (a very long startup). I'd like to move to 
another
> installer, but the main ones I "shoudl get" are a few thousand 
USD :/
> 
Ever had a look at Inno Setup - Seems well respected, works well, is 
fast, has excellent scripting extensions.. and is FREE! (even for 
commercial use)

http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php

Thought it might help
Graham
7474

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 2:44pm
Subject: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
Upon opening a list, depressing the jog dial once highlights the first item
in the list, and from there you can scroll all items. Hope this helps.

Scott
7475

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
And pressing the back button when something is hilighted will de-select the
item and let you use the jog dial to scroll by page again.

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: <smasters@a...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1


>
> Upon opening a list, depressing the jog dial once highlights the first
item
> in the list, and from there you can scroll all items. Hope this helps.
>
> Scott
>
7476

From: mzehner2000  <matt_zehner@p...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:56pm
Subject: Re: print setting problem

 
Jeff, is the toolkit also the cause of the Dr. Watson errors I 
reported (desktop crashing on exit)?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, mzehner2000 wrote:
> 
> > Also noticed a problem with the print function that is very 
annoying
> > (but not as serious as the program crashing!).  Every time I 
print a
> > file, Shadow is setting the print preferences to use A4 paper 
size,
> > even though my 'system' print preference is set to Letter for the 
same
> > printer (probably not an issue for you up there in Canada, but
> > definitely an issue south of the border :-) ).  So, each time I 
print
> > a doc, I have to go to Print/Layout tab/Advanced and change the
> > setting back.  The change doesn't get saved, so if I have to 
print the
> > doc again, even in the same session, I have to change it again.
> 
> 	Its an issue with some of the toolkits I depend on; that will 
be
> fixed in awhile.
> 
> > Another (even more minor) print issue: in the Print Preview window
> > (and in the "Print Pages..." field of the Print dialog), Shadow is
> > always showing the total number of pages to be 999.
> 
> 	999 == all in this toolkit revision.
> 
> 		jeff
7477

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 4:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> On another "bug"..
> I have a list which continually applies a filter and view to it every 
> time I open it. I need to manually remove the filter every time I go 
> in. I've even then pressed SAVE... but still the filter gets re-
> applied automatically next time I open the list

	Did you define  view that has an attached filter? You've probably
done that and attached this view to this file, and thus you've asked for
the filter to be applied every time you open the file. You can define this
to happen or not as you see fit, in the View Manager.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7478

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 4:08pm
Subject: Re: Beta results

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Chris Harlepp wrote:

> Jeff: so far, so good; the new conduit is a HUGE improvement over the
> previous, and I hope it resolves some of the issues that I had before.
> I have tried two Hotsyncs, and in both cases the data flowed fine, but
> on the DT side, there were two new, blank "items" at the bottom of the
> list...have no idea why! I checked on the HH side (conduit was set to
> HH over DT), and it too had developed two blank items at the end.

	Hmm. If you've got the lastsync.txt file that still applies, send
it my way privately. (ie: If it was the last sync, thats lastsync.txt; if
t was the second last, it woudl be lastsync1.txt or the like) They may
have been empty items on your handheld you didn't remember, or perhaps
they were deleted and brought back to life..

	Was the file only on the handheld, and downloaded to the desktop,
or was it on both sides and synced?

> Mike Bryan is on track: there are a lot of Clie' users, me included.
> I'd love to see the entire screen area accesible. If it's not a major
> code-crunch issue, it would certainly add to Shadow's "differentiation
> factor" over some of the other outliners.

	Its on my list, but not right now; I am avoiding being split in 5
directions or so.. trying to stay focused. Desktop or handheld. (Remember,
Shadow is not one pice.. it is Shadow Plan, Shadow Sync, Shadow Conduit
(Win, Mac) and Shadow Desktop (Win, Mac, Unix)). Doing all of those at
once is what, 7 pieces? :) So right now focusing on conduti and win
desktop beta and mac alpha :) Once I wrap up the beta, I can worry about
getting a virtual grafitti patch into alpha for the handheld :)

	I'v got the N760c or I'd buy the Nr70V awhile back; I'm really
worried about Sony being on serious crack though.. the NX70 (the ARM
unit) looks like it'll onyl have a couple of horu sof battery life b/c
sony keeps putting features in there withotu thinkign abotu the
consequences. One of the leaked specs showed that they estimated the
machine lifespan to be abotu 5h with no sidelight on.. meaning about 3h
with sidelight. Thats almost unusable for anythign it can do.. ie: It can
play mp3s, but only for 20mins.. woowoo :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7479

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 4:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.6 beta 1 Palm "bugs"

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, alwaysenuf wrote:

> Just Noticed with the new beta that on a list that I have preffed to 
> number on the top level, when i sync, i loose some but not all of the 
> numbers. I thought this was addressed, but... I have to go to prefs 
> and reset the numbering... 

	1) Make sure you're using 2.6 beta 1 (conduit will say 1.9.4
during sync IIRC)

	2) Set up autonumbering to be all correct

	3) Sync a few times

	4) Let me know.

	Could've been the result of moving from old conduit to nwe
conduit; need to see if new conduit is okay or not. It should be fine for
autonumbering, but there could be something funny goign on, since its a
tricky little subsystem.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7480

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 4:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: Complex Indent Custom Filter

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:

> Thats it. I'm looking for a filter that matchs something on level 3 
> and then displays level 4, 5 ... (all sublevels/children). So I guess 
> this is a new feature suggestion.

	Yep; Shadow is designed in the mentality that showing an item
means it needs to show context. ie:

Research
.	Car
.	Books

	"Car" means nothing without "Research" above it. This is one of
the more popular ways of building lists.

	However, I realize a lot of people provide more context in
subitems than top level items, so a way to hide parents can be useful. The
application will need some work to support this, as it is designed to want
to show all parents.. I just need to create some fancy filter rules and
speciasl indentation handling (lik zoom) for this. Later, after the
desktops get some more work.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7481

From: geoffthieme  <geoffthieme@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 4:32pm
Subject: Re: Complex Indent Custom Filter

 
The parents don't need to be hidden. I would prefer
the parents are still shown. I am looking for a way to display only 
the children of projects that have been prioritized (priority 1-4, 
but not 5 and -). I still want un-prioritized children of these 
projects to be displayed so I can prioritize them.

This would also allow me to associated tags with a project (level 3 
in my previous email) and remove the need for tags on each sub-tasks 
under a project. Thus greatly reducing the time taken to add sub-
tasks (children @ level 4) to a project because tags would not need 
to be added to each individual task (just the project it is a part 
of).

I'm wondering if allowing "AND" groups in filters would solve the 
problem.

AND Group  Rule
---------  ----
A          Indent level greater/equal to 3
B          Indent level equal 3
B          Priority not equal 0
B          Priority not equal 5

Or doesn't it work like that?

-Geoff

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:
> 
> > Thats it. I'm looking for a filter that matchs something on level 
3 
> > and then displays level 4, 5 ... (all sublevels/children). So I 
guess 
> > this is a new feature suggestion.
> 
> 	Yep; Shadow is designed in the mentality that showing an item
> means it needs to show context. ie:
> 
> Research
> .	Car
> .	Books
> 
> 	"Car" means nothing without "Research" above it. This is one 
of
> the more popular ways of building lists.
> 
> 	However, I realize a lot of people provide more context in
> subitems than top level items, so a way to hide parents can be 
useful. The
> application will need some work to support this, as it is designed 
to want
> to show all parents.. I just need to create some fancy filter rules 
and
> speciasl indentation handling (lik zoom) for this. Later, after the
> desktops get some more work.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7482

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:46pm
Subject: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> Upon opening a list, depressing the jog dial once highlights the first item
> in the list, and from there you can scroll all items. Hope this helps.

Thats what I THOUGHT should happen - Its doesn't on an NR70V (in any screen mode)

A small feature of the Sony perhaps?
Graham
7483

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:16pm
Subject: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> Again - Clie NR70V, OS4.100000
> 
> When using Shadowplan single handed, I can navigate around a list 
> with the jog dial, once the cursor is INSIDE the list. Once you 
> select a list I cannot see how to get the highlight onto a list 
> entry. You can scroll the list up and down OK, but you cannot 
> actually select any entry. You **have** to tap the screen somewhere
> 
> Small bug in my view.

	Check the reference guide.

	When nothing is selected, jog is page up/down. When an item is
selected, it is scroll selection 1 up/down. Push the jog dial to select an
item, or go into details, etcx. Push Back to unselect or go back to file
listing. Its really quite a useful setup.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7484

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: Security of Desktop Redundancy / BetaTest Result

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> Ever had a look at Inno Setup - Seems well respected, works well, is
> fast, has excellent scripting extensions.. and is FREE! (even for
> commercial use)

	I have been considering Inno and a few others; theres a lot of
nitty gritty needed however for this sort of thing (ie: Invkoe dll
operations, and cross platform is a big plus). I'm worrying about it after
this next release .. I want to get the new conduit out soon, since it is
far superior (in terms of support, but more importantly, in terms of
stability for everyone!)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7485

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:19pm
Subject: Re: Choice of preferred application

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> Version 2.6beta1, (and presumably others) allows Shadowplan  to be 
> selected as the preferred ToDO list manager!! When you then select a 
> TODO.. it all falls over in a heap. (Guess it doesn't like invoking 
> itself)

	As a rule, don't set paint programs to be todo applications, and
other nonsense choices :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7486

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: print setting problem

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, mzehner2000 wrote:

> Jeff, is the toolkit also the cause of the Dr. Watson errors I 
> reported (desktop crashing on exit)?

	Yep, though I need to investigate to see if its somethign my fault
leading to it. Its only one some Windows versions, and only on Wnidows
(not on Mac, Unix), and not all the time :/ (The toolkit is pertty good,
though it does have a few glaring issues. I'm not on the most recent
edition, however.. for good or evil ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7487

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Complex Indent Custom Filter

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, geoffthieme wrote:

> The parents don't need to be hidden. I would prefer
> the parents are still shown. I am looking for a way to display only 
> the children of projects that have been prioritized (priority 1-4, 
> but not 5 and -). I still want un-prioritized children of these 
> projects to be displayed so I can prioritize them.
> 
> This would also allow me to associated tags with a project (level 3 
> in my previous email) and remove the need for tags on each sub-tasks 
> under a project. Thus greatly reducing the time taken to add sub-
> tasks (children @ level 4) to a project because tags would not need 
> to be added to each individual task (just the project it is a part 
> of).
> 
> I'm wondering if allowing "AND" groups in filters would solve the 
> problem.
> 
> AND Group  Rule
> ---------  ----
> A          Indent level greater/equal to 3
> B          Indent level equal 3
> B          Priority not equal 0
> B          Priority not equal 5
> 
> Or doesn't it work like that?

	Hmm..

A	Indent level == 0
A	Priority <= 4
B	Indent >= 1

	See, that almost does it.. first group to match correct parents,
second group to match the right children. PRoblem is the second group will
match every deep item ...

	How about this..

	A new rule which says "GroupA == True" or "GruopA ==
False" (ie: New rules for Group A, Group B, Group C, and they're boolean
with onyl true or false value matches for a match has been made or
not. Then you could do this:

A	Indent level == 0
A	Priority <= 4
B	Indent >= 1
B	GroupA == True

	No wait, OR-groups must have 1 pass, so this is impossible to
pass..

	We're getting to the point we need to make two filters, that
depend on each other. Ohh, that'll have to wait.

	Got to think of a good way of doign this sort of complex
requirement easily..

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7488

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, gf_gollum wrote:

> > Upon opening a list, depressing the jog dial once highlights the first item
> > in the list, and from there you can scroll all items. Hope this helps.
> 
> Thats what I THOUGHT should happen - Its doesn't on an NR70V (in any screen mode)
> 
> A small feature of the Sony perhaps?

	It should work.. perhaps you've got a Hack interfering?

	If it doesn't work, its a bug in that particular units modified
Palm OS. The jog dial in this case is a custom Sony extension to the OS..
if they screw it up, nothing I can do about it :P (ie: I've tested and I
know the sony jog support inj Shadow works on a multitude of sony units,
from the black and whites through n760 and some others. I've not
personally tried it on the NR70 series but I'm sure Id' have haerd if it
was broken...)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7489

From: microman77541  <gpyoung@d...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Beta results

 
Jeff,
Great job on the new desktop and especially the conduit. So far, no 
major issues. I'm using a Handspring Visor, OS 3.5 with an expansion 
card and lots of hacks. The first few hotsyncs kept crashing about 
halfway through the ShadowPlan sync, so I reset the conduit to Copy 
the handheld file over the desktop. That solved the problem and now 
syncs are behaving as planned.

Thanks,
Gene
7490

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: Beta results

 
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, microman77541 wrote:

> Great job on the new desktop and especially the conduit. So far, no
> major issues. I'm using a Handspring Visor, OS 3.5 with an expansion
> card and lots of hacks. The first few hotsyncs kept crashing about
> halfway through the ShadowPlan sync, so I reset the conduit to Copy
> the handheld file over the desktop. That solved the problem and now
> syncs are behaving as planned.

	You didn't keep the lastsync.txt's from when it was crashing by
chance hu?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7491

From: John Rieley  <johnrieley@a...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:03pm
Subject: Re: ShadowLink 1.2.1 uploaded to Yahoo Files

 
Russ & Ling wrote:
>...the Shadow 2.6 beta 1conduit breaks the origin stamp uniqueID after a sync, causing ShadowLink not to jump....

For those of us not knowing what the uniqueID is and what
"not to jump" means, please provide a little more detail.
Thanks.
John Rieley
7492

From: gf_gollum  <gf_gollum@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:52pm
Subject: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
> 	When nothing is selected, jog is page up/down. 
Agreed - All OK

> When an item is
> selected, it is scroll selection 1 up/down. 
Agreed - All OK

> Push the jog dial to select an item, 
Nah - not here

> or go into details, etcx
Agreed
> Push Back to unselect or go back to file
> listing. 
Agreed

I tried switching off all the Hacks. Still did the same thing. OK - Must be an NR70V thing. Not to worry.
Graham
7493

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell@p...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 0:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Another jog dial issue 2.6beta1

 
Doesn't work for me either, with or without powerjog enabled.  T615.


>> Upon opening a list, depressing the jog dial once highlights the first item
>> in the list, and from there you can scroll all items. Hope this helps.
>
>Thats what I THOUGHT should happen - Its doesn't on an NR70V (in any screen mode)
>
>A small feature of the Sony perhaps?
>Graham


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7494

From: David Bengtson  <dbengtson@p...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:12am
Subject: Importing from Bonsai?

 
Can anyone suggest a good way to import a couple of large (300 items
or so) outlines from Bonsai? I'd prefer to keep as many attributes as
possible. These outlines are too bid for the memo pad. 

Thanks

Dave
7495

From: Ken Latham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 4:23am
Subject: Minor issue on 2.6beta1 (DT)

 
Jeff,

On that file causing a crash on sync (see shadow-desktop mail).  Was
apparently not set to sync (test template).  Completely gone now, so
nothing to send you... sorry.

Thanks for the fixup on the sync for '&'s in the link references,
works purrrfectly.  I see you're not using the same code to read the
XML in the sync as in the desktop, though.  Desktop still chokes on
the '&'s.  Should I just give up on this "XML illegal character" and
pick another marker?  I'd like to pick one that's low usage but still
XML legal, so it'll stand the test of time. ;)

I'm out to M$ Devcon for the next week, but I'm feeling confident
enough to start dual sync'ing when I get back... I'll let you know of
anything I find...

Ken
7496

From: Ken Latham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:12am
Subject: HH Category - acting up

 
Jeff,

I separated this from my other post, cause I know you'll want to file
it away for now...

All in all, these seem to be "harmless" display problems since the
category always seems to be correct once you convince it to display.
(ie. file always displays under correct category in file display)

... UPDATE... THIS IS NOT TRUE FOR PROBLEM 2!!!
In problem 2, once "Unfiled" is displayed and for ANY reason you hit
"OK" in Preferences, then the category of the file is changed... 8^O

(1) Confirmed (old?) "problem":

---Category display in Preferences (from open file)
(a) Open file, goto List/Preferences
(b) Select category list, select any category
(c) Tap "Opt", tap "OK" on Options screen
result: category no longer displays (but is set)

(2) (newly) Confirmed "problem":

--Category not highlighted on list (upper right corner in open file)
(a) Open Shadow for first time after sync (scratch this)
(b) Open a file
(c) tap category selector to right of "V" button
result: no highlight on current category
(d) tap anywhere other than list on screen to dismiss
(e) Goto List/Preferences
result: category displayed is "Unfiled"
(f) exit file
(g) select "Unfiled" on file list
result: suspect file NOT listed (???)
(h) select "All" on file list
(i) open suspect file, List/Preferences
result: says "Archive" (my own category) as it should!

Can't reproduce yet. --- ooops scratch that, just reproduced testing
the condition described below... seems to be any file ... nope scatch
that too ... just in ...

Happens EVERY TIME you follow the above procedure.  Seems that there
is something about bringing down the category list from the arrow
without picking anything.  Once you have, the Preferences screen shows
"Unfiled" until you close and re-open the file.  If you go straight to
Preferences, its ok.  (but go out and NOT select from the list and
voila Preferences now says "Unfiled"!)


Should it really act this way (built-in's behavior aside)

(a) Select "All" category from file list
(b) open file, goto List/Preferences
(c) change SYNC setting, tap OK
(d) close file
result: file list displays category of file just closed.

I'm getting to the point (after going through all my files recently)
of joining the "built-in app be d**ned" camp.  That feature is
*really* annoying!

I can see the logic in displaying the category of files if you change
the category (but there should be an exception even to this, if you
came from "All").  Can you not distinguish a sync status change from a
category change?  'Cause I noticed you return to proper the category
if I hit cancel.

Ken

Kyocera 6035, OS 3.5.2, HH 2.5.6
7497

From: Ken Latham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:22am
Subject: Re: HH Category - acting up (update)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Ken Latham" <clatham1@t...> wrote:
<snip>
> 
> (2) (newly) Confirmed "problem":
> 
> --Category not highlighted on list (upper right corner in open file)
> (a) Open Shadow for first time after sync (scratch this)
> (b) Open a file
> (c) tap category selector to right of "V" button
> result: no highlight on current category
> (d) tap anywhere other than list on screen to dismiss
> (e) Goto List/Preferences
> result: category displayed is "Unfiled"
> (f) exit file
> (g) select "Unfiled" on file list
> result: suspect file NOT listed (???)
> (h) select "All" on file list
> (i) open suspect file, List/Preferences
> result: says "Archive" (my own category) as it should!
> 
<snip>

(1) this only seems to be happening if you come into the file from the
"All" category choice on the main file list.

> 
> Ken
> 
> Kyocera 6035, OS 3.5.2, HH 2.5.6
7498

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 7:44am
Subject: Re: ShadowLink 1.2.1 uploaded to Yahoo Files

 
Sorry.  Been too long in the weeds...

Okay. ShadowPlan, when configured to do so, writes an origin stamp in the
note of a ToDo or Appt.  It looks like [[[Shadow: (1234) List > Item]]].
The (1234) is the uniqueID for that item.  ShadowLink Hack uses that
uniqueID to jump from your ToDo or Datebook application to Shadow, placing
you in that list and hilighting that item.  So, for example, while reviewing
your ToDo's in Datebk5, you can tap on the note of the ToDo, tap on
[[[Shadow: and jump to that entry in ShadowPlan and do whatever changes you
need.  Subsequently you can use the Link arrow (in ShadowPlan) to jump back
to the ToDo in Datebk5.  ShadowLink essentially gives you a quick way to
jump into Shadow without setting up special links a la MegaWiki or Linker.

When the uniqueID was corrupted in some way, ShadowLink did nothing -- the
cursor just kept blinking when you tap [[[Shadow:.  The new conduit, after
syncing a file, causes all the uniqueIDs in the file to change, so now the
IDs in the origin stamps are wrong.  Instead of doing nothing, ShadowLink
now jumps to the file anyway.  But because the uniqueID is no longer valid,
it can't go to and hilight the correct item.  So it goes to the first item
in the file.  When you resave the file, all the uniqueIDs in the origin
stamps (for that file) will get updated and ShadowLink will once again jump
to the correct item.

A little long winded but hope it's clear.

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rieley" <johnrieley@a...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] ShadowLink 1.2.1 uploaded to Yahoo Files


> Russ & Ling wrote:
> >...the Shadow 2.6 beta 1conduit breaks the origin stamp uniqueID after a
sync, causing ShadowLink not to jump....
>
> For those of us not knowing what the uniqueID is and what
> "not to jump" means, please provide a little more detail.
> Thanks.
> John Rieley
7499

From: alwaysenuf  <alwaysenuf@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 0:08pm
Subject: Re: 2.6 beta 1 and Autonumbering:

 
Jeff, 
I'm using the beta sent with the installer,-- screen says 1.9.4
during sync.  AutoNumbering is set, but numbers don't show on the 
screen for all of the items.  I have about 190 items in the list and 
every 3 or so item does not display the number on the hh screen when 
you first open file after a sync.  If you do open an item without a 
number,  when you close it the number appears-- 
I have a custom view set to show check box, title, to do link, skinny 
tag, days til due and link arrow, and to auto number on first level.
> 
> 	1) Make sure you're using 2.6 beta 1 (conduit will say 1.9.4
> during sync IIRC)
> 
> 	2) Set up autonumbering to be all correct
> 
> 	3) Sync a few times
> 
> 	4) Let me know.
> 
> 	Could've been the result of moving from old conduit to nwe
> conduit; need to see if new conduit is okay or not. It should be 
fine for
> autonumbering, but there could be something funny goign on, since 
its a
> tricky little subsystem.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
7500

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 0:24pm
Subject: Dated note taking?

 
I'm curious what is out there for purposes of dated note
taking; ie: Datebook isn't good at it. Shadow is good for all forms of
note taking, but I wonder what else is in this field.. Shadow is more a
generalist after all and I'm curious what other applications are doing in
this arena. Perhaps Shadow has some things to pick up from these guys, or
perhaps Shadow needs to link to these guys? Since I know nothign of
whatevers out there, I've become curious :)

	I've heard only of DayNotez; I ran into someone today who was
raving about it. Does anyone use it? Does it fit into GTD and Shadow Plan
systems well? 

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
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