From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 19, 2002 0:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Help test my potential new website

On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Ken Latham wrote:

> Would you rather I trash the poll?

	I am interested inthe results; its just not somethign I'd post
myself ;) (see, I can play both sides of the fence ;O

	The trick for me is a question of going over the edge; I could
easily just shift how I do things. Then codejedi woudl be a company like
any other. However, I have always tried to keep humanity in there. Of all
my day jobs and contract work, I've only ever seen soulless companies, or
good companies become soulless. I will resist that.

	So, I *could* milk everyone, and it'd probably be good
economically... but it might be soulless.

	I could charge for support, but I know *I* hate claling up a
support line and hearing "this will be $5/minute to talk to
Handspring" that sort of thing. Thats evil.. when people need help, they
dont' need to be beaten up, or worried about hanging up. So I support via
email, and I try and bet there when people need me. So charging seems
lame. (Its all about how I feel when I've tried dealing with other
companies.. so I try and give back what I always wanted ;)

	Charging for modules could be the way to go, though a plugin
system is extremely complex for this sort of application.

	One advantage to my current arrangement.. one pay item as it
were.. I work my schedule. Everyone gets a great deal, so I can afford to
spend 2 months focusing on dealing withlegal bullshit and not working on
Shadow Desktop, because I have to, and because your'e not paying a monthyl
subscription or yearly subscription. IF you paid for a $0/year or
something, then wouldnt' you demand a certain level of output for that
year to make it worthwhile?

	Sure, I produce like a maniac for a couple of months, then I get
burnt out and sit for a bit, then I spew it out again. But I do it at a
pace I can keep up with, pay the bills, and enjoy my family time..

	Course, I work a lot of contract work right now (don't we all have
two jobs :P), especially due to all these companies not paying up on what
they owe me, and I'd really rather just work on Codejedi.. so bringing in
more would be cool. A donation line isn't appropriate, since few would use
it (and thus it'd be a waste for those who did), and it projects an image
of desparation, which I don't have.

	So, all in all.. it is likely I will raise the price of Shadow and
related in the future, and it is possible I may charge for modules (I've
not thought about it). The problem with charging for modules is one must
decide wehat goes in as modules and what goes in as application... if you
do everything as a module, you're ripping off your core, and if you do
everything as core, you're wasting your time with module support. *shrug*

	As in all things.. its never clear cut , especialy when you've got
a guily leader like me who doesn't want to become another soulless entity
on the net...

> My intent was to ensure that you knew just how much this software is
> really worth to us "out here".  I had some misgivings about
> over-emphasizing the added cost without your explicit permission, so I
> guess I'm asking after-the-fact.  Do you think I'm harming customer
> relations?

	Is there a way to edit the poll to make it clear its from a not-me
and not me?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 19, 2002 1:21pm
Subject: Re: Lists that cannot be deleted from HH..

On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, mhdickens wrote:

> Shadow Plan 2.5.0 (Desktop 1.1.0), Palm M105 (OS 3.5.2).
> I started with a functioning list in sync on HH and desktop.
> 
> After editing a list in the Shadow desktop app and a subsequent
> hotsync the list on my handheld the following Bad Load! message
> appears when I try to load the list: "The list could not be loaded!"

	Theres a couple of issues in the conduit; they dont' show up too
often in general, but are annoying when you get 'em :/ Fortunately you can
recover pretty quickly normally..

> On trying to delete this list from HH the file cannot be deleted. I
> have tried every combination of Delete Links and Purge Shadow note
> origin information options.

	Deletion should work. On rare occasions the file won't want to
delete.. I'm not sure why as yet. You can delete from another
applicationperhaps, though if you keep trying in Shadow it should go
away.

	You can rename the file on your handheld, and ask the desktop to
send up its copy, and you should be back in business.

> Does anyone know HOW I can delete this file ? Can I overwrite it
> somehow ?

	Deletion with Filez or other 3rd party file manager will
work; some browsers let you expoand a file listing and delete a file.

> FWIW the only thing that I can think that may have been suspect in the
> desktop editing was to create an item and also delete it before the
> hotsync.

	That should be fine.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:15pm
Subject: RE: Re: Help test my potential new website

The goddess agrees with you on that one-- everyone who runs across my
site remembers the name. They may or may not *like* it (though most
males seem to like the logo) but they remember it!

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 


	Theres more to it of course, but really.. I can't just pick
plain
vanilla names. If your'e going to do something, do it with a little
flair,
right?

		jeff

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Thu Sep 19, 2002 3:03pm
Subject: Off Topic: How do you write the caret symbol on your palm, thanks

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:21pm
Subject: Re: Off Topic: How do you write the caret symbol on your palm, thanks

the ^ is "shift" "upside-down V" (start in left bottom). The < is shift
followed by a "sideways v" started in bottom right, and the > is shift
followed by a "sideways v" started in bottom left. Hope this is clear
enough.

Scott

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:42pm
Subject: Thanks Scott !!!

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> the ^ is "shift" "upside-down V" (start in left bottom). The < is 
shift
> followed by a "sideways v" started in bottom right, and the > is 
shift
> followed by a "sideways v" started in bottom left. Hope this is 
clear
> enough.
> 
> Scott

From: Timothy Woerner  <TEWoerner@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 0:00am
Subject: Re: Help test my potential new website

Ok.  Truth remains stranger than fiction.

If anyone is curious about what I found, use a search engine to look 
for "shadow jedi".

Tim



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Timothy Woerner wrote:
> 
> > Jeff, new website looks good... very commercial.  
> > 
> > Btw, having been sleeping under a rock for centuries, I just 
stumbled on the story lines of shadow jedi's.  I assume that is the 
roots of your product  and company name, and the motif of the (soon 
to be) old website.  If true, does it make sense to include a small 
background on the website and tie it into the product features?
> 
> 	Shadow Jedi's? Never heard of such a thing. Some sort of evil 
Jedi
> in Star Wars universe?
> 
> 	The history is much less interesting than you think ;)  I
> considered originally naming Shadow "Palm Plan" and various other 
things,
> but none of the names had a sense of fun and also a sense of 
utility. Palm
> Plan would've been good, except I figured Palm could take issue 
with it,
> and some sites don't like to publish applications featuring company 
names
> embedded within...
> 
> 	Eventually I settled on "Shadow Plan"; two reasons.. "the 
Shadow
> knows" is a cool old phrase from a cool old show, and I liked the
> connotation of your Shadow always being there (well okay, given a 
light
> source). But the idea of a simple cast Shadow seems coo. Also, its 
sort of
> fun.. we coudl play with logos, or have fun motifs... and people 
like to
> have fun names to play with. And it has "Plan" in the title so 
folks have
> some idea what it coudl be, after just having heard the name.
> 
> 	See, I firmyl believe you have to have a little fun. You can't
> name your LAN servers "b671xxy" right.. when you can name then
> "Spiderman" or "Hello", "Konichewa", etc.
> 
> 	Codejedi came around after a night of needing new domain
> names. ORiginally I just dumped Shadow onto one of my personal 
webpages,
> but then we grew really fast so I wanted to move to its own domain. 
My
> other domains were just goofy for-self ones and didn't apply well 
(I liked
> Lion King so had www.priderock.ca for instance, to use for my family
> (never did do it). But a .ca is less visible to the rest of the 
world
> (sadly)..)
> 
> 	After all sorts of this and that cool names, I settled on
> "codejedi" for all sorts of reasons. (I like the word Dejedi for 
one,
> which was a character name I used in a game ages past).. but Code 
Jedi is
> a neat phrase that again is a little fun, but the geekier types 
will go
> "cool!" (hopefully). Why not?
> 
> 	Theres more to it of course, but really.. I can't just pick 
plain
> vanilla names. If your'e going to do something, do it with a little 
flair,
> right?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Timothy Woerner  <TEWoerner@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 0:04am
Subject: Re: Desktop improvement needed

Thank you for your response to me and the files for the group.  

I tried to implement the instructions in 5 minutes or less but 
failed.  So, until I allocate more time I have no opinion.

Should I have any clarification questions, I'll email you.

Tim

From: Timothy Woerner  <TEWoerner@m...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 0:09am
Subject: Re: Desktop improvement needed

Jeff,

Options will be great.  I'm sure it will be a small (for memory 
efficacy) group of hot improvements.

However, if a WYSIWYG print (or export), from today's desktop screen, 
could be implemented sooner rather than later, this would be a great 
enhancement (a.k.a. a minor update).  Superiority in simplicity.

Tim

From: Ken Latham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:16am
Subject: Change in Shadow Value Poll

All,

I have changed the poll commentary to make it clear that this is not
of Jeff's doing.  I agree with the comments that others have made on
this subject and I don't wish to imply that Jeff has any real
intention of charging for upgrades.

However, as a result of the change, all prior results get deleted.

If you feel so inclined, I would appreciate your voting.

Ken

From: cyndideal  <cyndeal@b...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 3:11pm
Subject: help...Cant sync desktop to handheld

Hi,

I love Shadow plan and have built up a huge file in just two weeks. I 
had a fatal error during a hot sync that lost all but two notations 
in my master task list. I have found the info in a back up 
file,renamed it to an .xml, and renamed the bad file on the HH, but 
after repeated attempts, the desktop file will not travel to the 
handheld. I have looked in the manual, and looked thru several 
screens of msgs. here but have found no references to a similar 
problem. The only other thing i can tell you is that I get this 
message in the last sync log:

ShadP-Master task list: Copy database from desktop to handheld.
#   WARNING: Upload attribute not set. Skipping.

I am probably missing something really obvious, but can someone clue 
me in? 

Cyndi Deal

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 3:31pm
Subject: Re: help...Cant sync desktop to handheld

Did you open the renamed, backup list in Shadow Desktop and click the "send
to handheld" icon?

From: cyndideal  <cyndeal@b...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 5:43pm
Subject: Re: help...Cant sync desktop to handheld

Yes, I did that and it said the file would be sent at next hot sync. 
It was not there after I performed the sync.

thanks.

Cyndi
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> Did you open the renamed, backup list in Shadow Desktop and click 
the "send
> to handheld" icon?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:11pm
Subject: Re: help...Cant sync desktop to handheld

On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, cyndideal wrote:

> I love Shadow plan and have built up a huge file in just two weeks. I 
> had a fatal error during a hot sync that lost all but two notations 
> in my master task list. I have found the info in a back up 
> file,renamed it to an .xml, and renamed the bad file on the HH, but 
> after repeated attempts, the desktop file will not travel to the 
> handheld. I have looked in the manual, and looked thru several 
> screens of msgs. here but have found no references to a similar 
> problem. The only other thing i can tell you is that I get this 
> message in the last sync log:

	You must ask the Shadow base window to upload the file; otherwise
it doesn't know the difference between a file just sitting there, a file
deleted and intentionalyl left there or a file you want to send up.

	So the file must not exist on the handheld (by filename).. renamed
as you did above shoudl work. Ask the deskto to send it up, and you're
back in business.

	As to the conduit crunching your file; that will be fixed soon.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: cyndideal  <cyndeal@b...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:24pm
Subject: Re: help...Cant sync desktop to handheld

Thanks Jeff



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, cyndideal wrote:
> 
> > I love Shadow plan and have built up a huge file in just two 
weeks. I 
> > had a fatal error during a hot sync that lost all but two 
notations 
> > in my master task list. I have found the info in a back up 
> > file,renamed it to an .xml, and renamed the bad file on the HH, 
but 
> > after repeated attempts, the desktop file will not travel to the 
> > handheld. I have looked in the manual, and looked thru several 
> > screens of msgs. here but have found no references to a similar 
> > problem. The only other thing i can tell you is that I get this 
> > message in the last sync log:
> 
> 	You must ask the Shadow base window to upload the file; 
otherwise
> it doesn't know the difference between a file just sitting there, a 
file
> deleted and intentionalyl left there or a file you want to send up.
> 
> 	So the file must not exist on the handheld (by filename).. 
renamed
> as you did above shoudl work. Ask the deskto to send it up, and 
you're
> back in business.
> 
> 	As to the conduit crunching your file; that will be fixed 
soon.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:48pm
Subject: Re: Re: help...Cant sync desktop to handheld

On Fri, 20 Sep 2002, cyndideal wrote:

> Thanks Jeff

	BTW, a file uploaded form the desktop will end up in Unfiled on
the handheld. (A synchronized file will stay where it is of course)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:23pm
Subject: Website updated.. take a peek!

I've promoted the development version of the website into the
production site.. so take a look at the all new http://www.codejedi.com --
and let me know if theres any whacky issues! I may tune the colouration
and such over time, but let me know if any of the links are broken, or any
of your bookmarks stopped workijng, etc. I think its all cool, but I've
been wrong before ;)

	http://www.codejedi.com

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: clieguy  <clieguy@y...>
Date: Sat Sep 21, 2002 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Website updated.. take a peek!

Looks great Jeff!!

My bookmark worked perfect.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I've promoted the development version of the website into the
> production site.. so take a look at the all new 
http://www.codejedi.com --
> and let me know if theres any whacky issues! I may tune the 
colouration
> and such over time, but let me know if any of the links are broken, 
or any
> of your bookmarks stopped workijng, etc. I think its all cool, but 
I've
> been wrong before ;)
> 
> 	http://www.codejedi.com
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Sep 21, 2002 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Website updated.. take a peek!

On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, clieguy wrote:

> Looks great Jeff!!
> 
> My bookmark worked perfect.

	Sha-weet :)

	Thanks,

		jeff

> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	I've promoted the development version of the website into the
> > production site.. so take a look at the all new 
> http://www.codejedi.com --
> > and let me know if theres any whacky issues! I may tune the 
> colouration
> > and such over time, but let me know if any of the links are broken, 
> or any
> > of your bookmarks stopped workijng, etc. I think its all cool, but 
> I've
> > been wrong before ;)
> > 
> > 	http://www.codejedi.com
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 0:59am
Subject: Request for next release re: being able to choose the 1st day of the week

Jeff, it would be nice to be able to choose the "weeks starts" eg. 
either monday or sunday and then the filter automatically account 
for that...some people like to think of Monday as their start of 
week and not Sunday, or at least let us choose which date. Thanks in 
advance I don't know if this big deal but it certainly aids some 
people, it seems like a fair request since you already accomodate 
the selection of prioties 1-5 or 5-1.

thanks

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:57am
Subject: Re: Request for next release re: being able to choose the 1st day of the week

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> Jeff, it would be nice to be able to choose the "weeks starts" eg.  
> either monday or sunday and then the filter automatically account for
> that...some people like to think of Monday as their start of week and
> not Sunday, or at least let us choose which date. Thanks in advance I
> don't know if this big deal but it certainly aids some people, it
> seems like a fair request since you already accomodate the selection
> of prioties 1-5 or 5-1.

	Remind me a bit down the road; its out of scope with what I'm
working on right now (desktop, conduit, business)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:58am
Subject: Re: Spammed by Shadow-Discuss????????

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, pfieldho_99 wrote:

> Well if it isn't one &^$%$#& thing its another, isn't it? I received
> the message below with the subject line: "[Shadow-discuss] Low Price
> Tobacco". I don't know if anything can be done about it but I thought
> you might like to know.

	As a rule, if you get spammed, don't *spread it around*. You just
spammed everyone on the list with the spam yo got from the list .. so now
everyone got it twice :/

	Theres not much I can do about it. They joined as a member and
spammed us. They're banned now.

	I can set up the mailing lists to tie into draconian anti-spam
measures, but they can be screwy, and its work I don't want to delve into
right now...

	(ie: Some anti-spam systems just block @rogers* for instance. I
just don't agree with that..)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jagh124  <michalw@i...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:11pm
Subject: ToDo link with project name

Hi,
Is there a way in SP to create a link to ToDo database, so that new
ToDo name would consist of both list name and item name?
Let's say I have a list "Smith" named from a client. In that project I
have the item "interview", now I want to automaticaly create a ToDo
named "interview Smith". I know that within linked ToDo's note there
is a name of the list to which it is linked, but I want to have that
list name right in the ToDo's name, so I can quickly distinguish what
list this particular ToDo belongs.

Michal

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 3:16pm
Subject: Re: ToDo link with project name

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, jagh124 wrote:

> Is there a way in SP to create a link to ToDo database, so that new
> ToDo name would consist of both list name and item name?

	There is a global preference in the Links panel, to enable "Origin
Stamp"in the ToDo and DB "notes" for an item. The stamp includes the
filename and excerpts of the parental hierarchy, so you can tell more or
less exactly where the item came from. (And it has to be in the Note
field,since the ToDo title field is of vary restricted length, and if I
did put stuff there it'd fill up your ToDo screendisplay too much anyway)

> Let's say I have a list "Smith" named from a client. In that project I
> have the item "interview", now I want to automaticaly create a ToDo
> named "interview Smith". I know that within linked ToDo's note there
> is a name of the list to which it is linked, but I want to have that
> list name right in the ToDo's name, so I can quickly distinguish what
> list this particular ToDo belongs.

	Poof :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jagh124  <michalw@i...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 6:49pm
Subject: Re: ToDo link with project name

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	There is a global preference in the Links panel, to enable "Origin
> Stamp"in the ToDo and DB "notes" for an item. The stamp includes the
> filename and excerpts of the parental hierarchy, so you can tell more or
> less exactly where the item came from. (And it has to be in the Note
> field,since the ToDo title field is of vary restricted length, and if I
> did put stuff there it'd fill up your ToDo screendisplay too much
anyway)

> 	Poof :)

Is there some way around this problem? I have dozens lists-projects,
created from a template, with basically the same items-tasks in them.
Some of those items-tasks have target dates, some not. What I want is
to have a way of quickly displaying and identifying all tasks from all
projects that have to be done now. After reading your answer I began
to think about a different approach - maybe I should forget about
linking with ToDo database and make one big list with each project as
a separate item and tasks as its children. Then use views and filters
to display due tasks along with their parents-projects names. I
haven't yet fully explored views or filters, so I am not sure If this
may work. Is this possible?

Michal

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 8:48pm
Subject: Re: Re: ToDo link with project name

On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, jagh124 wrote:

> > 	There is a global preference in the Links panel, to enable "Origin
> > Stamp"in the ToDo and DB "notes" for an item. The stamp includes the
> > filename and excerpts of the parental hierarchy, so you can tell more or
> > less exactly where the item came from. (And it has to be in the Note
> > field,since the ToDo title field is of vary restricted length, and if I
> > did put stuff there it'd fill up your ToDo screendisplay too much
> anyway)
> 
> > 	Poof :)
> 
> Is there some way around this problem? I have dozens lists-projects,

	Problem? The above is exactly what you need and is already present
;)

> created from a template, with basically the same items-tasks in them.
> Some of those items-tasks have target dates, some not. What I want is
> to have a way of quickly displaying and identifying all tasks from all
> projects that have to be done now. After reading your answer I began

	The Origin Stamp feature makes this easily done.

> to think about a different approach - maybe I should forget about
> linking with ToDo database and make one big list with each project as
> a separate item and tasks as its children. Then use views and filters
> to display due tasks along with their parents-projects names. I
> haven't yet fully explored views or filters, so I am not sure If this
> may work. Is this possible?

	Sure is. Look up Tags, too.

	In Shadow, theres always more than one way to do something :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Craig  <cdemouy@m...>
Date: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:26pm
Subject: Re: duplicate enteries

Jeff,

That would be a wonderful thing!


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Craig wrote:
> 
> > I sync on two computers and every changed line is duplicated.  I 
am
> > really getting tied of deleting the dupicates.  Can you P L E A S 
E
> > change the code to not do this?
> 
> 	Upcoming version is smarter about how it tries to deal with
> unknown or paranoid situations.
> 
> 	You know, I should just make one for the short term that when 
you
> synch on a "different" desktop, it just downloads the files from the
> handheld.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Guilherme Luiz Aguiar Pedrosa  <guilherme.pedrosa@i...>
Date: Tue Sep 24, 2002 4:58am
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the (maybe not in near future) weigthing field

Hello, Jeff!

A little comment (below)

> > Then, I should be able to say if that weighting field is or is 
not a
> > duration field and, if it is, I could see it already 
interpretated as
> > '1h35' for 1 hour and 35 minutes, '1d12' for one day and twelve 
hours
> > and so on.
> 
> 	Hmm. So you want a "display type" field as well, so it can 
be a
> raw number, or hours, or days, or weight (like grams), etc. Hmm.
> 

I think that would be very confusing if we don't have a "time" 
display type. We could want to put in a same level items with a 30 
minutes weight, other one with a 3h30 weight (not 210 minutes) and 
see their parent yielding 4h (not 240 minutes)

Just a thought...

From: bblackmoor  <bblackmoor@b...>
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 2:24pm
Subject: too many sync-created errors

Hi. I have been using Shadow on my Palm for almost a year now, and, as
long as I never sync my Palm, it works great. It does what I want it
to do, and it was reasonably priced.

However, there one area which has been a continual source of
irritation, and I am wondering if this might be remedied in the
forseeable future: bugs in the conduit.

When I sync, duplicate entries are created, entries are moved from one
"parent" to another, and so forth. Pretty much every time I use Shadow
Plan, I have to spend five or ten minutes tapping my stylus on the
screen to move things back where they were yesterday, and to delete
the duplicates. I have been dealing with this for the better part of a
year, and I'm tired of it. Is a fix coming down the road any time soon?

If there is no fix on the horizon, can someone suggest a working
alternative to Shadow? I've no need for "linking" or other esoteric
functions, I just want an outliner that has:

an option for "percent completed" for each entry, 
a memo field attached to each entry, 
an option to have entries numbered or not, 
an easy way to promote/demote/reorder entries, 
a desktop applet, and 
a desktop conduit that doesn't mangle its entries.

Any suggestions?

bblackmoor@b...
2002-09-25

From: jeff.resener@s...
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: Views

If we have a list that is comprised of a combination of Note entries and
custom entries, and then create a view for say planning, When I go to
invoke this view, I get the message that changing views will Clobber my
previous view, or something to that effect (pretty strong startling
warning). What is the point of creating views if we cannot revert back to
the standard we had set for that list. I know filters work, but since we do
not have the toggle word suppression on/off yet, I found that I could
create a view for planning, with word wrap on, and my filters invoked (all
undated, all unlinked to do), and see what my next actions needed to be.
But when I went to use the view I got that message, and was concerned about
invoking it, for fear of loosing my list structure. Am I missing something?
Thanks
jeff

From: coopplan  <paulcbrowne@e...>
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:28pm
Subject: Duplicate entries after HotSync

I am getting really close to dumping my registered version Shadow 
unless this problem of duplicate entries after a HotSync gets fixed 
soon.  What is the status of a fix?

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:18pm
Subject: Help with parent not showing up in a Filter !! TIA

I have a parent call @Errands along with my other @-Parents and I 
have a filter set by target date this week and it everything is ok 
with my other @parents showing up on the list but @Errands children 
show up fine but not the Parent @Errands like the rest of them, I 
think it has to do with the %done field it show 60% and the other 
don't have that but I can't figure out how to get rid off that % and 
put it back to - like the others, then it would probably work but I 
can't figure it out, TIA 

my filter are all by tag associatattion and target date, just in case

jl28

From: Bert Latamore  <bertlatamore@y...>
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries after HotSync

I use ShadowPlan constantly and hot sync at least once a day and never have the problems you describe. What is your conduit set to? Could you be reloading an old copy of your ShadowPlan document back into your Palm from your desktop? Do new entries you make on your Palm remain after the hot sync, or do they disappear?

Bert
 coopplan 
wrote:I am getting really close to dumping my registered version Shadow 
unless this problem of duplicate entries after a HotSync gets fixed 
soon.  What is the status of a fix?


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: bblackmoor  <bblackmoor@b...>
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:00pm
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries after HotSync

Bert Latamore <bertlatamore@y...> wrote:
> 
> I use ShadowPlan constantly and hot sync at least 
> once a day and never have the problems you describe.

How fortunate for you.

> What is your conduit set to?

It has two settings: on, and off (aka "synchronize files" and "do
nothing", respectively). If you have yours set to "off", perhaps that
explains why you have not encountered this problem.

> Could you be reloading an old copy of your ShadowPlan 
> document back into your Palm from your desktop?

That seems unlikely, since I stopped even trying to use the desktop
app a couple of months ago.

> Do new entries you make on your Palm remain after the 
> hot sync, or do they disappear?

Nothing I create disappears unless I delete it (which is why I've
tolerated this bug as long as I have). Entries duplicate themselves
and move around. Sometimes things I have previously deleted seem to
return.

I like Shadow Plan, I really do. I've put up with this for months, I
*must* like the program in spite of this, right? But I'm tired of
dealing with it day-in and day-out. If a fix is coming out Real Soon
Now, that'd be fantastic. If not, then I am interested in looking at
alternatives.

bblackmoor@b...
2002-09-25

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:20pm
Subject: Part two: I just added another entry to my @Errands and the % went down to 50%

and when I hit the the saved view called "This Week" and I see the 
parent @Errands now but I can't figure out why ????, I'd like to get 
rid of this feature but I need some guidance, thanks again...what 
causes this behavior I had not encountered before though that's why 
its throwing me off now.

jl

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:04am
Subject: Re: too many sync-created errors

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, bblackmoor wrote:

> Hi. I have been using Shadow on my Palm for almost a year now, and, as
> long as I never sync my Palm, it works great. It does what I want it
> to do, and it was reasonably priced.
> 
> However, there one area which has been a continual source of
> irritation, and I am wondering if this might be remedied in the
> forseeable future: bugs in the conduit.
> 
> When I sync, duplicate entries are created, entries are moved from one
> "parent" to another, and so forth. Pretty much every time I use Shadow
> Plan, I have to spend five or ten minutes tapping my stylus on the
> screen to move things back where they were yesterday, and to delete
> the duplicates. I have been dealing with this for the better part of a
> year, and I'm tired of it. Is a fix coming down the road any time
> soon?

	Yes.

	Duplication is not a bug; it was by design. Sadly, the design did
not match what was needed. (ie: If you change an item on both handheld and
desktop, duplicates are created to protect you from data loss. When
syncing on multiple desktops, the conduit tries to determine source of
truth and when paranoid it duplicates, again to protect you). The logic
for multi-machine synch will be vastly improved soon..

	Items moving around by mistake does happen, but also they may end
up in odd locations due to the impossibility of determining truth. ie: IF
on the handheld you make A a child of B, and vice versa on the desktop,
the conduit may put it in the wrong place.. it just can't be
"Correct" since there is no correct.

	A newer conduit will be soon. A newer desktop too, but it'll get
better in baby steps.

> If there is no fix on the horizon, can someone suggest a working
> alternative to Shadow? I've no need for "linking" or other esoteric
> functions, I just want an outliner that has:

	Erp. This isn't the switch-me list ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:11am
Subject: Re: Views

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 jeff.resener@s... wrote:

> If we have a list that is comprised of a combination of Note entries
> and custom entries, and then create a view for say planning, When I go
> to invoke this view, I get the message that changing views will
> Clobber my previous view, or something to that effect (pretty strong
> startling warning). What is the point of creating views if we cannot

	A clobber only occurs if you have a unique custom for the list,
which is to say a non-saved view, and you try and invoke a saved
view. See, a *list default* can only be one type of thing. Wait, this is
complicated:

	A list has a type, which is really the default type for items.

	An item has a type, which is usually "take lists default".

	This way, when you change the list type, the list items change as
well. Also, this lets you set an override for some items, and the other
items continue to take on the list default.

	Your current state is in one of two ways:

	1) Your list is custom, and some items are overriden to notes.
	2) Your list is notes, and some items are overriden to custom.

	Regardless, you've got an *unsaved custom view* in there that you
care about. If you try and change the list to a *saved custom view*, then
you will lose your unique custom view.. it will be clobbered. There can be
only one custom view stored at a time for the current list.. it has only
one type. Unique custom, or saved custom, or note, or checklist, etc. But
the trick is you can have as many saved views as you want, but only one
unsaved custom view....

	So. What you need is to change how you're doing things..

	If your list is a Custom, then get the custom settings and create
a new saved view with the same settings, and then just change the lis tto
that type. If your list is Note, you can still get your custom settings,
define a saved view, and away you go :)

	See, mixing true-customs and saved-customs is complex :)

	Did I help, or further confuse?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:12am
Subject: Re: Duplicate entries after HotSync

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, coopplan wrote:

> I am getting really close to dumping my registered version Shadow 
> unless this problem of duplicate entries after a HotSync gets fixed 
> soon.  What is the status of a fix?

	Are you synching at multiple desktops? That is where it gets
annoying in general.

	A smarter conduit will be due soon.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:13am
Subject: Re: Help with parent not showing up in a Filter !! TIA

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> I have a parent call @Errands along with my other @-Parents and I have
> a filter set by target date this week and it everything is ok with my
> other @parents showing up on the list but @Errands children show up
> fine but not the Parent @Errands like the rest of them, I think it has
> to do with the %done field it show 60% and the other don't have that
> but I can't figure out how to get rid off that % and put it back to -
> like the others, then it would probably work but I can't figure it
> out, TIA

	An example would be better. MAybe I'm tired, but the above came
like a sledgehammer :)

> my filter are all by tag associatattion and target date, just in case

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:15am
Subject: Re: Part two: I just added another entry to my @Errands and the % went down to 50%

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> and when I hit the the saved view called "This Week" and I see the
> parent @Errands now but I can't figure out why ????, I'd like to get
> rid of this feature but I need some guidance, thanks again...what
> causes this behavior I had not encountered before though that's why
> its throwing me off now.

	Since you're talking Custom Filters and such, we'd need to know
what your criterion are and what your lists look like and what tags and
such you've got on those items... otherwise we can't really help :)

	Consider: When something is wrong with your car and you go to the
shop, you don't just ask the mechanic.. unless you provide very detailed
descriptions :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jpmv27  <jpmv27@y...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:33am
Subject: Re: Help with parent not showing up in a Filter !! TIA

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "jledesma28" <jledesma28@y...> wrote:
> I have a parent call @Errands along with my other @-Parents and I 
> have a filter set by target date this week and it everything is ok 
> with my other @parents showing up on the list but @Errands children 
> show up fine but not the Parent @Errands like the rest of them, I 
> think it has to do with the %done field it show 60% and the other 
> don't have that but I can't figure out how to get rid off that % 
and 
> put it back to - like the others, then it would probably work but I 
> can't figure it out, TIA 

I can't help you with your specific problem, but the %done on the 
parent says 60% because 60% of the children are marked complete 
(checked-off.) That percentage will change as you complete more 
children, as you delete the completed children, or as you add more 
incomplete children.

I don't know if there's a way to change that behaviour.

MV

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:03pm
Subject: Re: Spammed by Shadow-Discuss????????

On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 22:58:55 -0400 (EDT), Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>    I can set up the mailing lists to tie into draconian anti-spam
>measures, but they can be screwy, and its work I don't want to delve into
>right now...

Did you know about the option to moderate new members posts only? That is how my list is set up. Once they post a message and it isn't spam, then they are probably going to be ok so I unmoderate them. (Most spammers come on the list, spam, then unsubscribe immediately. Banning them is useless.)

If you didn't have time to do it, someone could be set up as the moderator.

Brenda

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 0:18pm
Subject: Re: Spammed by Shadow-Discuss????????

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Brenda wrote:

> >    I can set up the mailing lists to tie into draconian anti-spam
> >measures, but they can be screwy, and its work I don't want to delve into
> >right now...
> 
> Did you know about the option to moderate new members posts only? That
> is how my list is set up. Once they post a message and it isn't spam,
> then they are probably going to be ok so I unmoderate them. (Most
> spammers come on the list, spam, then unsubscribe immediately. Banning
> them is useless.)
> 
> If you didn't have time to do it, someone could be set up as the
> moderator.

	I haven't any time for that; if an old timer Shadow users wanted
to step up and do it, I could consider it, but being that Shadow is
shareware I would not expect anyone to do so.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ::.jay.west  <email@j...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:18pm
Subject: Send Clip to File suggestion

Hi Jeff,
I just started using the "Send Clip to File" feature under the edit menu and
it has really helped me manage my lists my allowing me to have the same todo
in multiple lists. 

For example: I have separate lists for different projects around the house.
Each project has some materials that I'll need to buy at Home Depot in order
to complete the job. I can add "Buy nails" to the project list but then also
"Send Clip to File" to my main shopping list for when I am out in Home Depot
next. This makes it very easy to view all the items I need to buy across
multiple lists. Check it off on the shopping list and it is checked off on
the project list.

I just don't find it really easy to use and was wondering if it could be
moved into the Link Arrow popup at the end of each item in a list. This way
you could pop open the Link Arrow click on "Send to File" have the sub list
popup with a list of Shadow files to copy it to. I find the copying of the
item then going up to the Edit menu to select "Send Clip to File" a bit
cumbersome and thought that it could work as fast and smooth as using the
ToDo Category under the Link Arrow.

Any thoughts?


j.

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: too many sync-created errors

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have only had a few problems with synched files
(knocking on wood). I think most of the problems encountered can be worked
around if you're careful, and here are my tips:

1.  Only sync the files that you truly need on both the DT and HH,
otherwise deselect the sync option. Be honest and be frugal.
2.  For synched files, do not do a lot of custom stuff on the HH. The more
basic the file, the better chance you have of getting a good sync.
3.  Make every effort to only make changes on one platform per list. By
this I mean for each list make a commitment to only change it on the HH or
the DT, then the other platform is just used to view. I have a couple of
text-intensive lists that I maintain on the DT and view on the HH, and
others that are function-intensive that I maintain on the HH and view on
the DT.
4.  If something goes wrong with one of your lists DON'T PANIC. Take a deep
breathe and think through what needs to be done to recover. If you are
unsure what to do, ask us or email Jeff directly for support.


If you follow these guidelines it should lessen your aggravation level to a
point where you'll be able to wait just a little longer for the fixes : )

From: Chris Dent  <cdent@b...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: too many sync-created errors

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 smasters@a... wrote:

> 1.  Only sync the files that you truly need on both the DT and HH,
> otherwise deselect the sync option. Be honest and be frugal.

I think this is probably an important aspect, especially since if you
want to do something like print a list that you don't sync, you can
just open the backup pdb in the desktop and play from there.

I never have the sync option selected in my list preferences because I
bought a palm so I wouldn't have to use a desktop. 


-- 
Chris Dent  <cdent@b...>  http://www.burningchrome.com/~cdent/
"If you assume that there is an instinct for freedom, that there are
opportunities to change things, that hope is possible, then hope may be
justified, and a better world may be built. That's your choice." N.Chomsky

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 3:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: too many sync-created errors

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, veb8 wrote:

	Firstly, I empathize with your frustration. However, if you want
to get nitty and gritty, here goes :)

> But when you keep saying a fix will be here soon and nothing happens, 
> folks start to get frustrated and I think understandably so.  This 

	I'm not interested in airing dirty laundry; if you want, ask me in
private email. For your amusement, 3 companies aren't paying up and 2
others wanted to play legal, and we had a couple acts of god if you
recall. When I say "soon", I'm saying "barring whacky outside things, it
will be soon". Each month for the summer, bad news came. I operated for
about 5 months without payback from multiple sources, paying legal and
other fees out of pocket. Because small companies get screwed by large
companies I've found out, regardless of what contracted commitments
they've made to you. I don't go discussing this sort of thing.

	You don't want to know my business, I don't want to burden anyone
with my business, and *I* don't even want to deal with this sort of
business. Thats why you don't hear about it. For $12.99 software worth
three times that, you can put up with a little frustration, knowing I've
got 100 times that every day :)

	An improved conduit will be going into testing soon. Many
questions need to be asked, actiosn decided, and lots of things to do, but
the code is in place, aside from where questions need to be filled in. As
an aside, the original conduit revealed mroe than 20 bugs in Palm OS and
the conduit API from Palm, and they've proven uninterested in fixing sed
issues :/ Ah well.

	Also remember, the official word is on the website and even in
-discuss (ie: There is no official announcements); if you're asking for
info in -test, you know its for alphas and betas you get your answers, and
its more subject to changes. As a rule I have never published timelines,
merely goals, and most of that is only in shadow-test.

> does not seem to be a unique problem that is limited to a few people 
> or a few situations and I think I feel frustrated that you seem to be 
> inferring that it is.  If I have misunderstood you, please forgive me.

	Unique to this subindustry, yes. Thats why a lot of palm
developers lost their shirts over the last few months.

> I know personally I also feel frustrated because the palm Shadow 
> Program is such a masterpiece and I want to be able to use it.  
> However, I need a desktop.  I was willing to accept the fact that 
> Shadow desktop was what it was as long as everything else worked.  
> But if the conduit isn't working, then it is a different story.

	You know, the conduit *does* work for 95% of people, very
well. You wouldn't know that, and I'm still beweildered you've had such
problems.

> also praised you when I liked things so I think I am being fair.  

	I empathize with your problems. Most peopel do not have them, but
many people do have a lot of problems. I'd have fixed them about 5 months
ago if I could've remained on target.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 4:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: too many sync-created errors

Vivian:
Only using one desktop to sync, it would seem you would mostly get the error you speak about by making changes on the HH and DT before syncing them.  Then the list sees both changes, isn't sure which is last or most up to date or which you truly want to keep, and thus copies both.  Make sure if you make a change on one that you sync with the DT before making changes on the other, and then again sync.  My solution for one desktop syncing is only make changes on the HH as much as possible.  Hope that helps.
Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: veb8 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:34 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: too many sync-created errors


  Hi Jeff,

  As an FYI, I only synch to one desktop, my home computer, and my 
  conduit has never worked properly.  I haven't used it in ages because 
  it was causing more problems than it was worth. These were the main 
  difficulties:  duplicate entries and notes not synching over.

  I greatly appreciate all the great things you have done and I know 
  you have had difficulty in getting paid in your dealings with 
  palmgear.  I also think you try so hard to make everybody happy and 
  you care so much about providing great customer service.

  But in my opinion, sometimes, when you want something so badly, you 
  end up achieving the opposite effect.  If you were to say to us that 
  due to circumstances beyond your control, it will be six months to a 
  year before I can take care of this conduit, while we might not be 
  happy, we would understand and not expect anything for awhile.  That 
  is what Mr. Dewar does with db5 and I have all the respect in the 
  world for him for being upfront and candid.

  But when you keep saying a fix will be here soon and nothing happens, 
  folks start to get frustrated and I think understandably so.  This 
  does not seem to be a unique problem that is limited to a few people 
  or a few situations and I think I feel frustrated that you seem to be 
  inferring that it is.  If I have misunderstood you, please forgive me.

  I know personally I also feel frustrated because the palm Shadow 
  Program is such a masterpiece and I want to be able to use it.  
  However, I need a desktop.  I was willing to accept the fact that 
  Shadow desktop was what it was as long as everything else worked.  
  But if the conduit isn't working, then it is a different story.

  I hope Jeff you will accept this post in the spirit it was intended.  
  Just because I am critical right now doesn't mean I have forgotten 
  about all the great things you have done because I haven't.  I have 
  also praised you when I liked things so I think I am being fair.  

  Also, I have tried very hard to keep my mouth shut even though this 
  conduit issue has frustrated me greatly as I felt you deserved every 
  benefit of the doubt we could give you.  But my patience is wearing 
  thin and I think deservedly so and obviously, I am not alone in my 
  feelings.

  Anyway, enough said!

  Vivian


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 7:39pm
Subject: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

lame poll in my opinion.  depends what is in it compared to what i already have...
kevin

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 9:24 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] New poll for shadow-discuss



  Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
  shadow-discuss group:

  Instead of setting a schedule, like
  yearly, most people (I think) would
  prefer to see a "pay for performance"
  basis. So this is the way this poll is
  structured, value per major upgrade.  It
  would be up to Jeff what constitues a
  "major" upgrade.
  So... How much is SP worth to you?


    o $1.00 
    o $2.50 
    o $5.00 
    o $7.50 
    o $10.00 
    o $12.50 
    o $15.00 
    o $20.00 
    o $25.00 
    o $30.00 


  To vote, please visit the following web page:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/surveys?id=978949  

  Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
  not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
  web site listed above.

  Thanks!







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: oren_dan  <d_oren@n...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Views

Jeff,

I encountered the very same problem today.
Correct me if I'm wrong - you're saying that if I have a custom list 
with several kinds of custom items (some tasks and some notes), I 
can't transform my unsaved view (containing all kinds of custom 
items) to an exact same saved view, that will allow me to return to 
the exact same configuration.

I hope I'm clear...

BTW, I admire your development process.

Thanks,

Oren.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	A clobber only occurs if you have a unique custom for the 
list,
> which is to say a non-saved view, and you try and invoke a saved
> view. See, a *list default* can only be one type of thing. Wait, 
this is
> complicated:
> 
> 	A list has a type, which is really the default type for items.
> 
> 	An item has a type, which is usually "take lists default".
> 
> 	This way, when you change the list type, the list items 
change as
> well. Also, this lets you set an override for some items, and the 
other
> items continue to take on the list default.
> 
> 	Your current state is in one of two ways:
> 
> 	1) Your list is custom, and some items are overriden to notes.
> 	2) Your list is notes, and some items are overriden to custom.
> 
> 	Regardless, you've got an *unsaved custom view* in there that 
you
> care about. If you try and change the list to a *saved custom 
view*, then
> you will lose your unique custom view.. it will be clobbered. There 
can be
> only one custom view stored at a time for the current list.. it has 
only
> one type. Unique custom, or saved custom, or note, or checklist, 
etc. But
> the trick is you can have as many saved views as you want, but only 
one
> unsaved custom view....
> 
> 	So. What you need is to change how you're doing things..
> 
> 	If your list is a Custom, then get the custom settings and 
create
> a new saved view with the same settings, and then just change the 
lis tto
> that type. If your list is Note, you can still get your custom 
settings,
> define a saved view, and away you go :)
> 
> 	See, mixing true-customs and saved-customs is complex :)
> 
> 	Did I help, or further confuse?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 26, 2002 9:24pm
Subject: Re: Re: Views

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, oren_dan wrote:

> I encountered the very same problem today.
> Correct me if I'm wrong - you're saying that if I have a custom list 
> with several kinds of custom items (some tasks and some notes), I 
> can't transform my unsaved view (containing all kinds of custom 
> items) to an exact same saved view, that will allow me to return to 
> the exact same configuration.

	You will need to create a saved view and convert the items to that
saved view, and then you can flip around to your hearts content. ie: Saved
views have replaced custom views more or less, except I did not wish to
break anything or require you to convert right away, and unique custom
views have some uses. So existing lists continue to work in the norml
way.. you can use custom views as you see fit. But if you wish to mix
custom views and saved custom views, you'll have to give up the unique
custom view.. you just can't mix the two systems well.

		jeff

> 
> I hope I'm clear...
> 
> BTW, I admire your development process.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Oren.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 	A clobber only occurs if you have a unique custom for the 
> list,
> > which is to say a non-saved view, and you try and invoke a saved
> > view. See, a *list default* can only be one type of thing. Wait, 
> this is
> > complicated:
> > 
> > 	A list has a type, which is really the default type for items.
> > 
> > 	An item has a type, which is usually "take lists default".
> > 
> > 	This way, when you change the list type, the list items 
> change as
> > well. Also, this lets you set an override for some items, and the 
> other
> > items continue to take on the list default.
> > 
> > 	Your current state is in one of two ways:
> > 
> > 	1) Your list is custom, and some items are overriden to notes.
> > 	2) Your list is notes, and some items are overriden to custom.
> > 
> > 	Regardless, you've got an *unsaved custom view* in there that 
> you
> > care about. If you try and change the list to a *saved custom 
> view*, then
> > you will lose your unique custom view.. it will be clobbered. There 
> can be
> > only one custom view stored at a time for the current list.. it has 
> only
> > one type. Unique custom, or saved custom, or note, or checklist, 
> etc. But
> > the trick is you can have as many saved views as you want, but only 
> one
> > unsaved custom view....
> > 
> > 	So. What you need is to change how you're doing things..
> > 
> > 	If your list is a Custom, then get the custom settings and 
> create
> > a new saved view with the same settings, and then just change the 
> lis tto
> > that type. If your list is Note, you can still get your custom 
> settings,
> > define a saved view, and away you go :)
> > 
> > 	See, mixing true-customs and saved-customs is complex :)
> > 
> > 	Did I help, or further confuse?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Stuart Gibbons  <stuart.gibbons@p...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 9:45am
Subject: Auto todo link & Shadowlink ID

Jeff,

Can't find any mention of this in the group archives or on the bug 
list/dev plan, but is there any chance of squeezing this into the 
2.5.x release?

If you have the option of 'Always link new items to ToDo' set, and 
have the Shadowlink/origin note setting enabled, then new ToDos are 
generated with a Shadowlink ID of (0) meaning it doesn't jump to the 
right point in the list.  

I'm assuming the ID isn't set when you create the ToDo, so is it a 
simple case of changing the code order from:
 create todo
 add note
 create shadow entry 

to 

 create shadow entry
 create todo
 add note?

Stuart

From: McMillan, Euan  <kiwiindo@a...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 10:25am
Subject: PC Synch Errors

Hello Jeff,

I have tried many times to get the data synchronising to work, from the PC
to the HH simply does not work. I have emailed you about this issue trying
to discribe the problem and ask if there is something I am missing, or not
doing. I have even sent my files and the logs.

If I do the simplest of tests create a new file with no links just a Shadow
file. Synch to get PC and HH same, then edit the memo text on the PC (not
opening the file on the HH) then try to sync I get the original item
duplicated without the changed memo text being synched to the HH.

With this happening the PC editing is absolutely not working. If I knew of
these problems before I would not have bought your software.

If you want an example of a good working conduit try using Chapura Pocket
Mirror Professional (Synchronises Outlook to HH), this is an example of a
conduit that is configurable for what to do in case of a conflict, either
duplicate entry, HH wins or DT wins. Check it out.

(www.chapura.com)

Euan McMillan

From: Corey Colyer  <cjcolyer@i...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 11:28am
Subject: file size and footprints

hullo,

I'm noticing that my lists do not seem to compress themselves when I cut 
big items from them.  For instance, I have a list for work called "archive 
data".  This list contains items for each of the projects that I'm managing 
at work.  I use a boilerplate template to start the project items and add 
misc next actions to them.  When the project is all done, I cut the item 
and paste it into a temp list, so it may be exported to html and put in my 
records, then I delete the item from my temp list.

So when a project is done, I want to delete the item (and its children) and 
everything else associated with that item in shadow [link stamps, tags, 
whatever].

But, after these cuts, the master (archive data) list is still huge!  I 
just removed 5 big projects from the list and have approximately 25 items 
it; yet the file size reads 36770.

In comparison another list with 25 items formatted similarly has a file 
size of 2439.

Looking in the manual and searching the yahoo messages, I haven't found any 
info on a) what's happening to cause this, and b) how to manage it.
Any ideas, tips, etc?

I'm using Shadow 2.5.6,

& I do have the preferences set to append origin of links.  Is this large 
filesize related to that?  Is there a way to compress the databases after a 
large operation like this... [well it's large in relation to what I do 
anyway].


Thanks in advance,

/Corey Colyer

Research Associate
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Data Archive
ICPSR
University of Michigan

cjcolyer@i...

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Auto todo link & Shadowlink ID

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Stuart Gibbons wrote:

> Can't find any mention of this in the group archives or on the bug
> list/dev plan, but is there any chance of squeezing this into the
> 2.5.x release?
> 
> If you have the option of 'Always link new items to ToDo' set, and
> have the Shadowlink/origin note setting enabled, then new ToDos are
> generated with a Shadowlink ID of (0) meaning it doesn't jump to the
> right point in the list.
> 
> I'm assuming the ID isn't set when you create the ToDo, so is it a 
> simple case of changing the code order from:

	For various reasons you really don't want to know, the ID is not
"set in stone" until a certain stage of saving the new item. The origin
append is done before this stage, so brand new items often get a (0) ID.
However, next time you visit the owning list in Shadow and close the
list/Shadow, the note will get updated as a ID is now available.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:55pm
Subject: Re: PC Synch Errors

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, McMillan, Euan wrote:

> I have tried many times to get the data synchronising to work, from
> the PC to the HH simply does not work. I have emailed you about this
> issue trying to discribe the problem and ask if there is something I
> am missing, or not doing. I have even sent my files and the logs.

	I imagine I replied then?

> If I do the simplest of tests create a new file with no links just a
> Shadow file. Synch to get PC and HH same, then edit the memo text on
> the PC (not opening the file on the HH) then try to sync I get the
> original item duplicated without the changed memo text being synched
> to the HH.

	One theory (someone brought it up awhile back.. Viv?) is that some
installations have a problem with memos. This doesn't seem to be the case
all the time, but may be a problem.

	There will be a new conduit soon, and I will endeaver to test
this.

> With this happening the PC editing is absolutely not working. If I knew of
> these problems before I would not have bought your software.

	In general the desktop and conduit work very well. Theres a few
issues, I admit.

> If you want an example of a good working conduit try using Chapura
> Pocket Mirror Professional (Synchronises Outlook to HH), this is an
> example of a conduit that is configurable for what to do in case of a
> conflict, either duplicate entry, HH wins or DT wins. Check it out.

	They have it easy. They don't have relational data. Writing
conduits for todos and such is a trivial 1 day job. Shadow data is much
more complicated, by orders of magnitude.

	I'm sorry you've been one of the folks to encounter lots of
problems. You'll be fixed up soon.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 1:58pm
Subject: Re: file size and footprints

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Corey Colyer wrote:

> I'm noticing that my lists do not seem to compress themselves when I
> cut big items from them.  For instance, I have a list for work called
> "archive data".  This list contains items for each of the projects
> that I'm managing at work.  I use a boilerplate template to start the
> project items and add misc next actions to them.  When the project is
> all done, I cut the item and paste it into a temp list, so it may be
> exported to html and put in my records, then I delete the item from my
> temp list.
> 
> So when a project is done, I want to delete the item (and its
> children) and everything else associated with that item in shadow
> [link stamps, tags, whatever].
> 
> But, after these cuts, the master (archive data) list is still huge!  
> I just removed 5 big projects from the list and have approximately 25
> items it; yet the file size reads 36770.

	When items are deleted, the main body of them is removed, but a
header record remains. This record is used in the OS and conduits to know
that the record was removed and various other facets about it. (ie: When
you synch.. if a record is merely gone, the conduit doesn't know if its
copy is new, or if it was removed. So a header must remain to say what
happened to the record). These headers don't go away until synch, though
they are generally very small. They do add up over time. A synchronization
will dump these details.

	I'd have to check, my I beleive my Duplication operation will not
copy the removed header records. So you could in theory do a Duplication,
Rename sort of operation to shrink the file down again, or synch it.

> & I do have the preferences set to append origin of links.  Is this
> large filesize related to that?  Is there a way to compress the
> databases after a large operation like this... [well it's large in
> relation to what I do anyway].

	Origin stamp is in the ToDo or DB database. It has no impact on
the Shadow database size.

	Compressing of files outside of Shadow should work fine; there are
Zip type apps for Palm OS, as well as encryption and all sorts of things.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Stuart Gibbons  <stuart.gibbons@p...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Broken Views workaround??

Jeff,

Is there any workaround to the custom view override being broken 
(last discussed in 3611), or do I have to wait for the new conduit?  
I've just finished setting up my 'system' and now my list items that 
are set to a custom view are getting clobbered each time I sync.

------------------------------------------
> I still got the broken views when a list is ticked for syncing with
> the desktop, so that was disappointing.

The 2.5.0 conduit appears to break view-overrides to
custom-saved-views. I'll have a 2.5.x patch out soon (or maybe a 2.6,
whatever number we use :P)
------------------------------------------

Stuart

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 2:28pm
Subject: Re: Broken Views workaround??

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Stuart Gibbons wrote:

> Is there any workaround to the custom view override being broken (last
> discussed in 3611), or do I have to wait for the new conduit?  I've
> just finished setting up my 'system' and now my list items that are
> set to a custom view are getting clobbered each time I sync.

	Updated conduit.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Brown  <zephyr@t...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:40pm
Subject: Custom Filter With Next Step Only

Is it possible to build a custom filter that filters by tag and the built-in 
'next step only' function?

I'm trying to create a filter that will show the next steps on all my projects 
at a particular location that is defined by a tag. 'Next action only' is not 
included in the list of operations in the Filter Rule Detail dialog in the 
Custom Filter Detail screen.

Am I missing something? 
 
--
Kevin Brown
Somewhere on Earth via webmail
mailto:zephyr@t...

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 5:52pm
Subject: Re: Custom Filter With Next Step Only

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Kevin Brown wrote:

> Is it possible to build a custom filter that filters by tag and the built-in 
> 'next step only' function?

	Not yet.

> I'm trying to create a filter that will show the next steps on all my
> projects at a particular location that is defined by a tag. 'Next
> action only' is not included in the list of operations in the Filter
> Rule Detail dialog in the Custom Filter Detail screen.
> 
> Am I missing something? 

	Remind me in a little while :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Sep 28, 2002 3:02am
Subject: Re: Re: too many sync-created errors

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, veb8 wrote:

> > 2.  For synched files, do not do a lot of custom stuff on the HH. 
> >The more basic the file, the better chance you have of getting a 
> >good sync.
> 
> That's a good suggestion and one I can certainly try.

	Complexity of the item is not really an issue; there may be a memo
issue, and the new saved custom views can get lost in a synch. A new
feature and synching of it didn't get tested enough, my bad.

> Fortunately, I haven't lost information like other people but that is 
> good advice in case something like that does happen.  Applicable to 
> other situations too.

	It is nearly impossible to lose data.

> Thanks, I greatly appreciate your tips and I'll definitely try the
> first one as I really don't need all the fancy formatting even though
> it seemed like I did at the time:))

	Fear not, now that I've resolved most of the legal issues and
such, things are back on track. New conduit going into testing soon.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Sep 28, 2002 4:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: too many sync-created errors

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, veb8 wrote:

> I am glad your legal issues are solved and thanks for letting us know
> about the conduit.

	Yeah. I think it was "dot-com" then "dot-bomb" then
"sue-the-little-guy" and now its getting back to the way when
"working-hard-pays-off" :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Sep 28, 2002 6:31pm
Subject: Spam handling

Shadow-test, Shadow-discuss (old one hosted on skeleton.org),
Shadow-developer and Shadow-desktop now require membership to post. I will
check the yahoogroups as well (Shadow-discuss proper, Shadow-tips).

        Spam will not be tolerated.

                jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David Bengtson  <dbengtson@p...>
Date: Sat Sep 28, 2002 10:18pm
Subject: Larger Memo Size

Hi Jeff:

With the next round of handheld work, could you look into making the
note field larger? Especially with a better conduit, it would be nice
to be able to use Shadow as an information repository. 


Thanks


Dave

From: McMug  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:21am
Subject: Re: Larger Memo Size

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., David Bengtson <dbengtson@p...> wrote:
> Hi Jeff:
> 
> With the next round of handheld work, could you look into making the
> note field larger? Especially with a better conduit, it would be 
> nice
> to be able to use Shadow as an information repository. 

Yes, and a better replacement of big editors like ped and megamemo.

From: Corey Colyer  <cjcolyer@i...>
Date: Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:25am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 652

Greetings Jeff and group.

A couple of clarifications...

At 08:57 PM 9/27/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>     When items are deleted, the main body of them is removed, but a
>header record remains. This record is used in the OS and conduits to know
>that the record was removed and various other facets about it. (ie: When
>you synch.. if a record is merely gone, the conduit doesn't know if its
>copy is new, or if it was removed. So a header must remain to say what
>happened to the record). These headers don't go away until synch, though
>they are generally very small. They do add up over time. A synchronization
>will dump these details.

By sync, do you mean regular hotsync?  Or special sync between Shadow on 
th