From: robertsjb2000@y...
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 5:49am
Subject: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., kencn@a... wrote:
> Actually, If I understand what you want, the current release of 
> Shadow does this already.  You specify a default category as a list-
> level preference (it's under the Opt button on the List Preferences 
> screen) and Shadow puts linked todos that it creates into that 
> category or puts them in Unfiled if a matching category doesn't 
exist 
> in the Todo database. Very slick.  
> 
> The next feature I'd like to see added is to allow categories to be 
> assigned at the item level.  This would allow Shadow to create 
todos 
> in multiple todo categories from a single list.  It could also 
allow 
> category-based filtering in Shadow. Never the less, the current 
> implementation is very handy.
> 
> Ken

Thanks for pointing this out!  You're right though, it would be the 
ultimate in versatility to be able to assign the categories at the 
item level. (How about it Jeff?) In the meantime, I'll start playing 
what's already there.  Thanks again.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Victor Krongold wrote:

> To replace the Todo application there is definetly a need for an auto 
> import feature that could be selected by the user. I would suggest a 
> category oriented strategy. This means that if the autoimport feature 
> is selected by the user all the todos of some category are imported 
> in a list of the same category in shadow with the default Unfiled 
> category in the case this category is not defined in shadow. This 
> list could be fixed like "todo-category".
> 
> In my case what would happen is each time I hotsynced with Outlook I 
> launch Shadow and Voila al the todos are there per category.

	I'm not sdure thats useful.. since you could have a million old
todos in their, and bringing them into a list would be alot of work, when
you'd never care. I could see perhaps bringing in a subset ("this
months" or something). But even then.. do you only want new ones? Or do
you want new ones to go to certain shadow files? (that you pick)

	Time to review all the expected uses and see whats really
needed. A gutt feel here may be a miss..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 robertsjb2000@y... wrote:

> I understand the desire to be able to import to-do's and I have to 
> agree with an earlier post--allowing the ability to import todos from 
> a category into the same category in Shadow with todos from a 
> category not listed in Shadow falling into the unfiled category by 
> default makes sense to me.

	Woa; thats quite a mouthful ;)

> However, what I'd really like to be able to do is the reverse.  I'd 
> like to create the item in Shadow and then while creating the link, 
> send it to a specified category in the ToDo program.  Perhaps this 

	In 1.5.x, you can specify a todo target category on a shadow file
by file basis. I'll soon add the ability to override that for sublevels,
items, and such. It won't be a "at link time, pop up a list" sort of
picker.. but before you set a link, you can set a category for the item,
ro all items below an item, and then links created will go to that. For
1.5.0, though, you can only specify todo link by file.

> Also, you asked me to remind you about keyboard support and I've seen 
> others have already picked up the call.  However, just to add my 
> voice to the list, it will be great to get added keyboard support 
> with access to the menu with the scroll arrow keys (ala Wordsmith).  

	I'll have to look into it .. I like to leave that sort of thing to
the OS, but if the OS doesnt' do it, and its really desirable, I could add
it. *Shrug*

> to child and the reverse were to be done with the use of the tab and 
> shift-tab keys.  This would make it similar to alot of word 
> processing programs and I wouldn't have to think so much about what 
> keys to hit. Just a thought!

	Backspace and space no good?

	I could add tab/s-tab, but it seems redundant..

> Keep up the good work Jeff.  The program's awesome and so is your 
> customer support.

	Thanks :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 3:04pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 jimfreda@y... wrote:

> Jeff, Nice application. It seems very powerful and well thought 
> out.

	Thanks!

> many nice linking features and screen options. One view option 
> that I would appreciate, since I have lots of long and multi-
> levelled lists, would be to able to add some lines between 
> entries, showing how they are related, vertical and horizontal 
> lines like this:

	I always avoided dependancy lines, since if you're 3 or 4 levels
deep, in a loooong sublevel, onscreen you might just see:

 | | | | > some item

	And its not useful..

	But I think for most people, it may be. Its on my list, but has
fallen down in favour of desktop support and other stuff..

> Another thing I would like would be to have a arrows button box 
> at the bottom allowing me to promote, demote or just move 
> around a highlighted item. Your system for dragging and 
> dropping is really clever, but I haven't quite got the knack of it
> yet. 

	Theres also "right swipe" (space) to push right, and "left
swipe" (backspace) to promote.. works pretty well. I may add an expert
icon bar, turned on via pref, which has a pile of little buttosn on it..

	Thanks for writing. Focusing on desktop right now, but I'll get
back to general fixes soon..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: robertsjb2000@y...
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 11:49pm
Subject: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> I'll soon add the ability to override that for sublevels,
> items, and such. It won't be a "at link time, pop up a list" sort of
> picker.. but before you set a link, you can set a category for the 
item,
> ro all items below an item, and then links created will go to that.

This sounds like it would do whats needed.  Is a pop up list of the 
categories, like you've implemented on the file level, just too 
difficult to implement on an item level? 

> 
> 	Backspace and space no good?
> 
> 	I could add tab/s-tab, but it seems redundant..

The backspace/space keys work, I just have to think about what keys 
I'm using, particularly when I switch from using a word processor for 
outlining to Shadow.  If its just me, there's probably no point in 
making the change--I'll learn to live with it.  I just thought that 
the tab/s-tab might be something more intuitive and expected by 
others using the program.

As always, thanks for the quick responses!

From: Terry Kyte  <kyte@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:03am
Subject: RE: Expert Icon Bar

>From: jimfreda@y... [mailto:jimfreda@y...]
>
>Another thing I would like would be to have a arrows button box
>at the bottom allowing me to promote, demote or just move
>around a highlighted item. Your system for dragging and
>dropping is really clever, but I haven't quite got the knack of it
>yet.

I have to agree.  I find the IIIc screen very unforgiving at times - often
have trouble getting it to recognize a character.  Same with dragging
items - I find it jumps all over the place and I end up dropping it
somewhere else... it gets frustrating.  I believe it would be nice if you
had promote/demote/move buttons on the screen and an option to enable or
disable moving by dragging and dropping.  Sometimes I inadvertently drag an
item to some other location and have to move it back.  I know the screen is
prime real estate and you have the shortcut strokes to promote & demote, but
I would still vote for an "expert icon bar, turned on via pref, which has a
pile of little buttons on it".

From: dammala@r...
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 6:23am
Subject: icon bar and 1 more

I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.
I'd also like you to consider 1 more feature.

I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not allow 
them or offer to delete them.

Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?

Dirk

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:18pm
Subject: re: auto-imprt; tab key for promote?

On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 robertsjb2000@y... wrote:

> > I'll soon add the ability to override that for sublevels,
> > items, and such. It won't be a "at link time, pop up a list" sort of
> > picker.. but before you set a link, you can set a category for the 
> item,
> > ro all items below an item, and then links created will go to that.
> 
> This sounds like it would do whats needed.  Is a pop up list of the 
> categories, like you've implemented on the file level, just too 
> difficult to implement on an item level? 

	Links can be created many ways; popping up a list at creaiton time
is not useful. ie: On the flat viuew, or when you've activated the todo
link column.. you wantone tap to create a link.. not one tap to create,
another to pick category, maybe with scrolling. So it is specified ahead
of time.

	You'll be able to specify it for any item, or item below the
current item.

> > 	Backspace and space no good?
> > 	I could add tab/s-tab, but it seems redundant..
> 
> The backspace/space keys work, I just have to think about what keys 
> I'm using, particularly when I switch from using a word processor for 
> outlining to Shadow.  If its just me, there's probably no point in 
> making the change--I'll learn to live with it.  I just thought that 
> the tab/s-tab might be something more intuitive and expected by 
> others using the program.

	Sure; I've no problem adding another key for it.. just dont' want
to find a use for the tab key letter and have it already used ;)

	Does anyone else want the tab key to do proote/demote?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: Re: RE: Expert Icon Bar

On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Terry Kyte wrote:

> I have to agree.  I find the IIIc screen very unforgiving at times - often
> have trouble getting it to recognize a character.  Same with dragging
> items - I find it jumps all over the place and I end up dropping it
> somewhere else... it gets frustrating.  I believe it would be nice if you
> had promote/demote/move buttons on the screen and an option to enable or
> disable moving by dragging and dropping.  Sometimes I inadvertently drag an
> item to some other location and have to move it back.  I know the screen is
> prime real estate and you have the shortcut strokes to promote & demote, but
> I would still vote for an "expert icon bar, turned on via pref, which has a
> pile of little buttons on it".

	OKay; so what operations do you want on the expert bar?

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:41pm
Subject: Re: icon bar and 1 more

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 dammala@r... wrote:

> I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.

	Any other operations you'd want in a bar?

> I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not allow 
> them or offer to delete them.

	You'd have to define "duplicates" ;) I dont' think this is wise
though -- it'd be a slow operation in a 300 item list to compare a new
item to all previous items. And you definitely need to allow duplicates in
different sublevels, since many items coudl have a "begin" sub item, say,
or a common book name, or common person name, or the like. So its very
personal and custom..

	Besides.. duplicate would be text + note + dates + check + ...

> Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?

	I'm planning on allowing you to do a "merge" of one list onto the
end of another, from the file selection screen..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Aaron Ebata  <aebata@h...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: RE: re: auto-imprt; tab key for promote?

There have been several suggestions for promotion/demotion. I think
tab/s-tab could work, but I also think an arrow key combination (e.g.,
ctrl-arrow) for moving items (the equivalent of dragging and dropping) would
be even better for me....

Aaron

> > The backspace/space keys work, I just have to think about what keys
> > I'm using, particularly when I switch from using a word processor for
> > outlining to Shadow.  If its just me, there's probably no point in
> > making the change--I'll learn to live with it.  I just thought that
> > the tab/s-tab might be something more intuitive and expected by
> > others using the program.
>
> 	Sure; I've no problem adding another key for it.. just dont' want
> to find a use for the tab key letter and have it already used ;)
>
> 	Does anyone else want the tab key to do proote/demote?

From: Michael K. Brown  <brown_m_k@h...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:11pm
Subject: Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan, also bug with Bubble Priorities.

Hi Folks!

I'm trying out Shadow Plan after having used Progect for a while (unfortunately, Progect appears to have slowly died off).  I'd like to try importing some of the more complicated outlines in, and avoid a lot of cutting and pasting (if possible).  I've been using the export to memo option in Progect, and having everything end up in the details line in ShadowPlan, where I've had to create the dates using the date picker, and delete the rest of it.  Has anyone got any suggestions for a better way to do it, or am I already doing it?

This next one's for Jeff:  There appears to be a bug on Monochrome devices when trying to use the "Bubble Priorities".  It took me a bit to figure it out, but when I try to create a task list or a custom view with "Bubble Priorities", I get a Fatal Exception the moment I leave the List Preferences Dialog.  The change is (obviously) not retained once the reset is done.  This is reproducible on my device 100% of the time when attempting to create the preference setting for task list or custom view, while the "Number priority; not bubble" preference is NOT checked.  When it is checked, there is no problem in creating Task lists or custom views.  Has anyone else encountered this?

FYI... Here's the particulars...

TRGpro running OS 3.5.1 with AutoCF 1.1
The stock Application Launcher
X-Master with the following Hacks:
McPhling
Clock Pop
Keyb+Graffiti
Crash
Keyz
DiddleBug ScreenCap
Uptime Hack
MiddleCapsHack
ClipStringHack

I just nuked FindIgnoreHack 1.4, because I just found out it conflicts with new versions of Avantgo - Thanks go to Mike McCollister for the assist there!

If any former Progect users might have any tips for me, they'd be greatly appreciated!  I'm on day two of the trial  ;-)

Thanks for your time!

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan, also bug with Bubble Priorities.

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Michael K. Brown wrote:

> I'm trying out Shadow Plan after having used Progect for a while
> (unfortunately, Progect appears to have slowly died off).  I'd like to
> try importing some of the more complicated outlines in, and avoid a
> lot of cutting and pasting (if possible).  I've been using the export
> to memo option in Progect, and having everything end up in the details
> line in ShadowPlan, where I've had to create the dates using the date
> picker, and delete the rest of it.  Has anyone got any suggestions for
> a better way to do it, or am I already doing it?

	My importer isn't yet smart enough to pick up dates and
such. Since every outliner does it differently, I only made Shadow smart
enough to guess at some of the items. I know I need to improve it :/

	Once I get a desktop application out, it may help..

> This next one's for Jeff:  There appears to be a bug on Monochrome
> devices when trying to use the "Bubble Priorities".  It took me a bit
> to figure it out, but when I try to create a task list or a custom
> view with "Bubble Priorities", I get a Fatal Exception the moment I
> leave the List Preferences Dialog.  The change is (obviously) not

	It means you've imported a list that defined some outragous
priority value, and your'e using shadow 1.5.0 and it lets you get away
with it ;) (ie: Shadow sees [xx] and assumes xx to be a prioreity 1-5.

	Get this alpha:

	http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow153.zip

	It won't let imported priorities get carried away. I think its
that alpha.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Matthew.Blair@i...
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:29pm
Subject: bug in ToDo links

Hi,

When I delete an item that was linked to the ToDo database, the 
corresponding item in the ToDo database is not deleted also.  Is this 
a bug or a feature :-)

Thanks,

Matthew

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:36pm
Subject: Re: bug in ToDo links

On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 Matthew.Blair@i... wrote:

> When I delete an item that was linked to the ToDo database, the 
> corresponding item in the ToDo database is not deleted also.  Is this 
> a bug or a feature :-)

	Feature; there is a pref in 1.5.x so you can tell shadow to delete
an linked object along with the deleted item (todo and datebook only, of
course :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: GL Bucher  <buch2001@u...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 9:09pm
Subject: RE: icon bar and 1 more

How about the "collapse all", "expand all" commands on this expert bar, and
maybe zoom...

Gary
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
  Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 3:42 PM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] icon bar and 1 more


  On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 dammala@r... wrote:

  > I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.

        Any other operations you'd want in a bar?

  > I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not allow
  > them or offer to delete them.

        You'd have to define "duplicates" ;) I dont' think this is wise
  though -- it'd be a slow operation in a 300 item list to compare a new
  item to all previous items. And you definitely need to allow duplicates in
  different sublevels, since many items coudl have a "begin" sub item, say,
  or a common book name, or common person name, or the like. So its very
  personal and custom..

        Besides.. duplicate would be text + note + dates + check + ...

  > Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?

        I'm planning on allowing you to do a "merge" of one list onto the
  end of another, from the file selection screen..

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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From: dammala@r...
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:37pm
Subject: Re: icon bar and 1 more

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.
> 
> 	Any other operations you'd want in a bar?

Expand All
Collapse all
promote
demote
move up
move down
delete
details
page up
page down


> > I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not 
allow 
> > them or offer to delete them.
> 
> 	You'd have to define "duplicates" ;) I dont' think this is 
wise
> though
> 	Besides.. duplicate would be text + note + dates + check + ...
>

I'm only looking for duplicates in the details screen. It helps 
greatly when making lists like shopping or packing lists. It doesn't 
have to be the whole database just the details screen to keep me from 
entering "underwear" twice :)It could even be just in the desktop 
version as a menu item. I've used just about every outliner out there 
and this is one of the features of ListMaker that I liked a lot.

BTW, your linking feature is the best.

 
> > Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?
> 
> 	I'm planning on allowing you to do a "merge" of one list onto 
the
> end of another, from the file selection screen..
> 
> 		jeff

Merging of Lists would work well for me. Thanks!

From: psvincent@m...
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:44pm
Subject: Re: Just dreamin' 'bout features...

Yes.  When using a keyboard, it would be great to just magnify all of 
the print on the screen.

Thanks again.

Mark

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 psvincent@m... wrote:
> 
> > 1. fonts, fonts, fonts.   I use a keyboard, and squint a lot 
while 
> > using Shadow.  My optomotrist loves this, but I don't.  Could we 
get 
> > large bold added?
> 
> 	Good point; I'd forgotten about fonts.. I'll have to get back 
to
> add some of these cosmetic niceties again :)
> 
> 	You want a global font change, and not an item by item change,
> right?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: icon bar and 1 more

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 dammala@r... wrote:

> I'm only looking for duplicates in the details screen. It helps 
> greatly when making lists like shopping or packing lists. It doesn't 
> have to be the whole database just the details screen to keep me from 
> entering "underwear" twice :)It could even be just in the desktop 
> version as a menu item. I've used just about every outliner out there 
> and this is one of the features of ListMaker that I liked a lot.

	Use the local find, maybe? Just tap the magnifier, enter
"undearwear", and it'll tell you if you got it already :)

	Not sure I like adding a duplicate checker.. it'd be slow, and
very specific to a given use..

> BTW, your linking feature is the best.

	Thanks :)

	I'll consider the other things..

	Someone draw me up a bunch of 10x10 or maybe 12x10 icons ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: llee@w...
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:02pm
Subject: question on purging to-do items

I'm sort of thinking aloud here... I haven't purged the completed 
items out of my To-do database since I've started using Shadow 
extensively.

Based on what I read from the documentation... I guess it follows that 
if you have Shadow project items linked to your to-do database and you 
complete/purge those items out of to-do... then Shadow will alert you 
that the links have been broken, right?

(And at that point you would want to say, "sever all links.")


Jeff, have you ever considered an option that says, "re-create links"? 
Too troublesome?

Just curious,
Larry

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:15pm
Subject: Re: question on purging to-do items

On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 llee@w... wrote:

> I'm sort of thinking aloud here... I haven't purged the completed 
> items out of my To-do database since I've started using Shadow 
> extensively.
> 
> Based on what I read from the documentation... I guess it follows that 
> if you have Shadow project items linked to your to-do database and you 
> complete/purge those items out of to-do... then Shadow will alert you 
> that the links have been broken, right?
> 
> (And at that point you would want to say, "sever all links.")

	Yep, exactly.

> Jeff, have you ever considered an option that says, "re-create links"? 
> Too troublesome?

	Hmm, interesting. I can't see why someone would want to do that,
though. Coudl be done pretty easily, but its evil :) (ie: They're broken
because you intentionally deleted the data, in which case you can link
them again by hand. If they're broken due to a naughty app, or bad hotsync
restore, then you dont' want Shadow to create doubles or triples of the
items do you? Instead, use a better restore tool..)

	Hmm..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: L Newman  <lnewman@n...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:54am
Subject: Another suggestion

Hi

We all want something, don't we? Poor Jeff!

FWIW I'd like a datebook link column option the same as the to do link
column.  That way I could link and unlink items to To Do and Datebook
without having to open up to detail and then options.  Although, one thing I
don't want is for Shadow to be come too cluttered or slow to move around in.

Len

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:51pm
Subject: Thoughts re: tags and re: misc text field

This is a clip of something I sent to someone today; I thought you 
guys might care and wish to comment. Its quick, due to my playing catchup 
after a flu, but you get the idea. Please comment... nothing is in stone  
yet.    
        
        1) Misc field; it will be a short text entry field, much like the
item title text field but with a short limit. It will likely be edittable
form the details screen, and maybe from the main list view as well. It   
will be activatable as a Custom View option, where you can request a small
or wide column, depending on your needs. (ie: If you want to see only 2-3 
chars, choose the small column and it'll be to the right of the title
text, like a progress-bar column. If you want a wide text field, ity'll
show up as another row, underneath the title text field). I'm expecting  
users to use this as free-entry -- just write text or numbers or whatever
into the field. I'm not expecting to put a popup there.

        2) Tags; there will be a tag editor screen where you can define up
to 100 tags. You'll be able to link to tags much like linking to the
Address Book in 1.5.x -- pick from a list, or do a quick search. (1.5.0
has a slow address search on some units; it is remedied in a patch coming
out soon, which can search 2000 addresses in a blink). You can thus link 
to as many tags as you like. You will be able to sort and filter on tags,
as well. A tag will be settable via the link manager as above, or also as
a popup column you can request from the Custom Views. I envision tags to 
be used for dependancies, or counts, or codes, or any number of things.  

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Samir Kasme  <samir.kasme@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:33pm
Subject: Re : Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan

--- Dans shadow-discuss@e..., "Michael K. Brown" <brown_m_k@h...> a 
écrit
> Hi Folks!
> 
> I'm trying out Shadow Plan after having used Progect for a while 
(unfortunately, Progect appears to have slowly died off).  

You're far from being the only one, I myself have just registered 
Shadow because so little was happening on Progect in the last months. 
I think many former Progect users are new Shadow users ;-) That's 
because both products are similar in many ways: Shadow has almost all 
features that Progect has, and many more: I was particularly 
impressed by the linking features!
Progect is a bit more "elegant" and intuitive in use, but that 
doesn't make up for the slowness in its development.

There is actually only ONE Progect's feature that I miss in Shadow, 
it's the very handy "flat view" (in Progect it has a different 
meaning than in Shadow): that view shows only the children tasks, 
with some filtering options. Actually it's not so much the fact that 
it only shows the children tasks that makes it powerful, it's the 
filtering options: I can set priorities to items that require action 
and, e.g. when I plan my day in the morning I can filter only on 
those tasks and have a view with linking boxes, that I can check to 
link items to Datebk4 as appropriate. This way my outline/list can 
contain info-type items (without priority), and also action-type 
items (with priority), with the flat view I can filter only on the 
latter and easily have an overview on what's pending on a particular 
project.

You could achieve that in Shadow with some more filtering options, 
e.g. "Only items with priority different from 'None' " or "Items with 
priority > 5". Currently you can filter "high priority items" but 
that only gets priority 1 and 2, which is not enough for that 
purpose. It doesn't need much actually, it's already pretty close..

Of course even better would be such a filter across all lists (or a 
group of lists / a category) and not only within one list, but that's 
probably more of a challenge... Would be REALLY perfect though, 
because you could get the overview on all your pending tasks, filterd 
by priority...

After browsing this mailing list archives I saw this feature was 
considered by Jeff a while ago, although I understand the conduit has 
taken up a higher priority lately. But I do hope it will be 
implemented in some way, that would make Shadow so much powerful for 
progect/ task management.

>I'd like to try importing some of the more complicated outlines [...]

That's how I did it: 

- Export to DOC from Progect (otherwise you don't get the Notes)
- Open with Quickword (or Wordsmith / pedit)
- Export to Memopad
- Hotsync
- Edit the memo on PC, replacing all headers with tabs / spaces / 
Notes tags, to accomodate for Shadow's importing format
- Hotsync
- Import from Memopad to Shadow

It's a bit messy, but that's the only way I found to get the notes 
attached to Progect's items, and the editing/replacing on PC is 
faster than you would think


Thanks Jeff for the good work sofar, looking forward to what's coming 
up..

Samir

From: rsivertsen@h...
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:01pm
Subject: Import from MS Project or the like

I *LOVE* this app!

I'm a certified FranklinCovey facilitor for What Matters Most(r) and 
What Matters Most(r)for Palm Computing Platforms; and your 
application along with a couple of others like DateBk4 and DayNotez 
has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if 
you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP 
functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking 
Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.

Wow, ok having said that. Has anybody come up with an easy way (or 
know of one) to import projects from any of the off-the-shelf PM 
software, like MS Project or Suretrak?

It'd be so way cool to import say the task descriptions and 
completion dates into ShadowPlan and then link them to datebook items.

Any thoughts anyone?

Keep up the good work, Jeff, I've got one of my Palm killer apps 
right here!

Regards,
R-

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:57pm
Subject: Re: Import from MS Project or the like

On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 rsivertsen@h... wrote:

> I *LOVE* this app!

	Thanks :)

> I'm a certified FranklinCovey facilitor for What Matters Most(r) and 
> What Matters Most(r)for Palm Computing Platforms; and your 
> application along with a couple of others like DateBk4 and DayNotez 
> has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if 
> you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP 
> functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking 
> Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.

	If you want to write something up, I'll plop it onto the website
:)

> Wow, ok having said that. Has anybody come up with an easy way (or 
> know of one) to import projects from any of the off-the-shelf PM 
> software, like MS Project or Suretrak?

	I'm working towards some of this, but still a bit off; once the
two-way conduit is finished, you just need to convert the other formats to
Shadow's XML format, and your'e done. The shadow desktop application (or
side tools) will do these translations. But being one person, it takes
awhile to write :)

> It'd be so way cool to import say the task descriptions and 
> completion dates into ShadowPlan and then link them to datebook items.
> 
> Any thoughts anyone?

	Anyone have a good description of what MS Project .mmp files look
like?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: easy-123@e...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:40am
Subject: Re: Import from MS Project or the like

I was glad to hear that you haven't given up on developing a desktop 
app. In your recent emails you seem to be concentrating on the palm 
OS which is already great. Thanks.


> 	I'm working towards some of this, but still a bit off; once 
the two-way conduit is finished, you just need to convert the other 
formats to Shadow's XML format, and your'e done. The shadow desktop 
application (or side tools) will do these translations. But being one 
person, it takes awhile to write :)

From: Samir Kasme  <samir.kasme@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 11:00am
Subject: Re : Import from MS Project or the like

> > application along with a couple of others like DateBk4 and 
DayNotez 
> > has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if 
> > you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP 
> > functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking 
> > Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.
> 
> 	If you want to write something up, I'll plop it onto the 
website


Wow, that would be cool, and of great benefit to many many 
ShadowPlan/Datebk4 users...

Samir

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Re : Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Samir Kasme" <samir.kasme@s...> wrote:
> Of course even better would be such a filter across all lists (or a 
> group of lists / a category) and not only within one list, but 
that's 
> probably more of a challenge... Would be REALLY perfect though, 
> because you could get the overview on all your pending tasks, 
filterd 
> by priority...

It seems to me that this is just what linking to Datebk4 makes 
completely possible. There the todos of everythink linked with their 
priorities show up -- the pending list. And if Jeff puts in the misc 
field, then any coding or I.D. needed to define what a particular 
todo is connected to will be there as well. 

The ability to know what a particular todo refers to is a constant 
problem with any sort of compiled list. ECCO had that same problem 
without the TL tags. But isn't the Datebk4 todo prefs and listing 
just this sort of filtering? 

I think Shadow is fantastic. I also tend to think a lot of our 
desired improvements are because we haven't got Shadow, Datebk4, 
Action Names, etc., figured out enough for our purposes -- not so 
much what these excellent apps are capable of.

From: MGoehmann@t...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 5:02pm
Subject: Re: Import from MS Project or the like

Hi,

> has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if
> you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP
> functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking
> Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.

yes, I am very interested to hear how you do it!

Thanks in advance,
Monika

From: Samir Kasme  <samir.kasme@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 9:32pm
Subject: Re : Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan

--- Dans shadow-discuss@e..., bstryd@a... a écrit
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Samir Kasme" <samir.kasme@s...> wrote:
> > Of course even better would be such a filter across all lists (or 
a 
> > group of lists / a category) and not only within one list, but 
> that's 
> > probably more of a challenge... Would be REALLY perfect though, 
> > because you could get the overview on all your pending tasks, 
> filterd 
> > by priority...
> 
> It seems to me that this is just what linking to Datebk4 makes 
> completely possible. There the todos of everythink linked with their 
> priorities show up -- the pending list. And if Jeff puts in the misc 
> field, then any coding or I.D. needed to define what a particular 
> todo is connected to will be there as well. 
> 

You're completely right, and I have considered using it that way, i.e. 
linking ALL items requiring actions, and handle the filtering, sorting 
etc. in Datebk4. Only that I found it much much better to review my 
tasks "in context", i.e. within a particular list that I know my tasks 
are referring to. In Datebk you only have the item's title and it can 
be difficult to put it into context. 
Now after reading your post I read Jeff's post about misc field and 
tagging, and both look great! If the misc field is carried over to 
Datebk4 (it would have to be in the title itself?), then it would 
allow to have that context information in Datebk4.

>I think Shadow is fantastic. I also tend to think a lot of our 
>desired improvements are because we haven't got 
>Shadow, Datebk4, Action Names, etc., figured out enough for our 
>purposes -- not so much what these excellent apps are capable of.

Agreed: and that's why such mailing lists are so valuable ;-)

Cheers
Samir

From: mitz009@a...
Date: Fri Apr 20, 2001 0:10am
Subject: weird problem - just me?

Today, I copied an item five times at the same level, under the same 
parent, with the idea that I would just change the a persons name and 
save myself sone time.  I copied, "Follow up with person A re: 
project" five times, with the same target and start dates.  Then, I 
went in to each one sequentially and changed "person A" to "person 
B", "person c", etc.  Then, I saved the list and tapped "done".  All 
items in the list are linked to the to do db, by the way.

Next, I went to Dtbk4.0 and found only one to do.  Went back to 
Shadow, and all five items were exactly the same!  The names had 
reverted back to "person A".  Is this how it's supposed to work?  
Does anybody else find this happening?

Kinda weird.....

Thanks for the help.

Henry

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:31am
Subject: Re: weird problem - just me?

Its a by-product of the way copies are done, at this time.

	When you copy an item you duplicate it exactly -- the link is not
recreasted, but duplicated, for various reasons. This is useful, but
confusing unless you know it. So, you copy an item, with a link, and then
change the copy.. and they will all revert at sync time (list open). This
is useful for when you copy a item with a link, then paste it into another
file.. then you have two items in two files linked to one todo item. I do
this all the time. Maybe I'm unique :)

	There will be an option soon to let you chose to duplicate the
linked objects, or keep the links to the single object.

		jeff

On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 mitz009@a... wrote:

> Today, I copied an item five times at the same level, under the same 
> parent, with the idea that I would just change the a persons name and 
> save myself sone time.  I copied, "Follow up with person A re: 
> project" five times, with the same target and start dates.  Then, I 
> went in to each one sequentially and changed "person A" to "person 
> B", "person c", etc.  Then, I saved the list and tapped "done".  All 
> items in the list are linked to the to do db, by the way.
> 
> Next, I went to Dtbk4.0 and found only one to do.  Went back to 
> Shadow, and all five items were exactly the same!  The names had 
> reverted back to "person A".  Is this how it's supposed to work?  
> Does anybody else find this happening?
> 
> Kinda weird.....
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 10:44pm
Subject: Re: Thoughts re: tags and re: misc text field

This sounds awesome!

Greg

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>         1) Misc field; it will be a short text entry field, much 
like the item title text field but with a short limit. It will likely 
be edittable form the details screen, and maybe from the main list 
view as well. It will be activatable as a Custom View option, where 
you can request a small or wide column, depending on your needs. (ie: 
If you want to see only 2-3 chars, choose the small column and it'll 
be to the right of the title text, like a progress-bar column. If you 
want a wide text field, ity'll show up as another row, underneath the 
title text field). I'm expecting users to use this as free-entry -- 
just write text or numbers or whatever into the field. I'm not 
expecting to put a popup there.
> 
>         2) Tags; there will be a tag editor screen where you can 
define up to 100 tags. You'll be able to link to tags much like 
linking to the Address Book in 1.5.x -- pick from a list, or do a 
quick search. (1.5.0 has a slow address search on some units; it is 
remedied in a patch coming out soon, which can search 2000 addresses 
in a blink). You can thus link to as many tags as you like. You will 
be able to sort and filter on tags, as well. A tag will be settable 
via the link manager as above, or also as a popup column you can 
request from the Custom Views. I envision tags to be used for 
dependancies, or counts, or codes, or any number of things.  
>

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:48pm
Subject: Re: weird problem - just me?

Still it's kind of odd that all the items reverted back to their 
original name too, right? If I would copy an item, I'd expect to get 
a new item which is independent of the original (except for the link 
in this case). So if I changed Person A to Person B, C, etc. I would 
not expect Shadow to revert these items back to Person A when re-
entering the list.

Roy.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Its a by-product of the way copies are done, at this time.
> 
> 	When you copy an item you duplicate it exactly -- the link is 
not
> recreasted, but duplicated, for various reasons. This is useful, but
> confusing unless you know it. So, you copy an item, with a link, 
and then
> change the copy.. and they will all revert at sync time (list 
open). This
> is useful for when you copy a item with a link, then paste it into 
another
> file.. then you have two items in two files linked to one todo 
item. I do
> this all the time. Maybe I'm unique :)
> 
> 	There will be an option soon to let you chose to duplicate the
> linked objects, or keep the links to the single object.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 mitz009@a... wrote:
> 
> > Today, I copied an item five times at the same level, under the 
same 
> > parent, with the idea that I would just change the a persons name 
and 
> > save myself sone time.  I copied, "Follow up with person A re: 
> > project" five times, with the same target and start dates.  Then, 
I 
> > went in to each one sequentially and changed "person A" 
to "person 
> > B", "person c", etc.  Then, I saved the list and tapped "done".  
All 
> > items in the list are linked to the to do db, by the way.
> > 
> > Next, I went to Dtbk4.0 and found only one to do.  Went back to 
> > Shadow, and all five items were exactly the same!  The names had 
> > reverted back to "person A".  Is this how it's supposed to work?  
> > Does anybody else find this happening?
> > 
> > Kinda weird.....
> > 
> > Thanks for the help.
> > 
> > Henry
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Apr 21, 2001 6:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: weird problem - just me?

On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> Still it's kind of odd that all the items reverted back to their 
> original name too, right? If I would copy an item, I'd expect to get 
> a new item which is independent of the original (except for the link 
> in this case). So if I changed Person A to Person B, C, etc. I would 
> not expect Shadow to revert these items back to Person A when re-
> entering the list.

	Its due to the link; both items link to the same object; as such,
they must be the same as the linked object. You change the two of them,
and one of them goes to the link (whichever goes last), and then both
shadow items inherit that on opening the list. It is odd, but it makes
sense, and is sometimes desirable.

	I'll add an option to change this soon, once I work out the
semantics..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sun Apr 22, 2001 4:33pm
Subject: Re: weird problem - just me?

You're right, it makes sense considering the context. But it does 
bring up another interesting topic. The fact that the linked item 
always has the same name/description as the corresponding item in 
Shadow is not always desirable.

Consider for example a Shadow list with two branches: "Project 1" 
and "Project 2". Each of these branches has a sub-branch 
called "Testing" and both of these have a link to the ToDo database. 
This leads to two (seemingly) identical ToDo's. In Shadow, I can see 
which one belongs to which project but in the ToDo list, both show up 
as "Testing". The only way to prevent this is to have the 
descriptions of all Shadow items include a "path" from the root of 
each branch to that particular item (e.g. "Project1 -> 
Testing", "Project 2 -> Testing"). This is not only cumbersome but 
also leads to cluttered, redundant Shadow lists.

Would it be possible to (optionally) have independent Shadow and link 
descriptions?

Roy.

> 	Its due to the link; both items link to the same object;
> as such, they must be the same as the linked object. You change
> the two of them, and one of them goes to the link (whichever
> goes last), and then both shadow items inherit that on opening
> the list. It is odd, but it makes sense, and is sometimes
> desirable.
> 
> 	I'll add an option to change this soon, once I work out
> the semantics..

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 22, 2001 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: weird problem - just me?

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> You're right, it makes sense considering the context. But it does 
> bring up another interesting topic. The fact that the linked item 
> always has the same name/description as the corresponding item in 
> Shadow is not always desirable.

	This is a tough one; we've sort of talked about it a bit
before. One proposal is to have all parent texts (or parts
thereof) prepended to the child text when the link is created. But that
can't be done, since someone would inevitable edit that text in tyhe todo
list, and thus how would Shadow know how to import it? (ie: Change the
parent items? Gah!)

	Making them independant is certainly possible.. but how to UI
it? A pref to make all items non-synced? Or a list-level pref? Or some
item level pref? Or link level pref? (no way!). I just don't know what the
best way to do it without making things just "too much"..

	I agree.. something should be done.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: brown_m_k@h...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:29am
Subject: Feature Request for ShadowPlan Conduit

Hi Jeff!

A request for you regarding the conduit.  Chapura's Pocket Mirror has 
an option to not syncronize "Private" items, which I really like.  
I'm sure many other users would also like this feature in your 
product, so that personal stuff doesn't end up on the work machine, 
or company stuff on the home machine, as the case may be.  I'm sure 
many of your users HotSync on more than one machine (like myself) and 
have items we would like to keep seperated.

Thanks for making such a great product! I just registered it this 
week, and am still learning the ins and outs of it.  I have one 
additional suggestion; have you seen the Datebk4 cookbook?

http://how.to/datebk-cookbook

It might help you develop documentation and FAQ's if you were to put 
something similar on your website, as many of your users could 
contribute their ideas, tips and techniques for using ShadowPlan.  
Just a thought...

I'm looking forward to seeing the converters (and later the desktop!)

/Mike

From: Anthony Mylonas  <tonyelit@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 11:36am
Subject: Info on ETA of file translators

I would just like to know (just know i am not exercizing any pressure :)  )
a loose time table covering the progress of the  XML to ..... . file
translators and the Shadow Desktop now that we have a feature rich,
relatively bug free life saver like Shadow
Thanks for a great product Jeff

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:44pm
Subject: Re: Feature Request for ShadowPlan Conduit

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 brown_m_k@h... wrote:

> product, so that personal stuff doesn't end up on the work machine, 
> or company stuff on the home machine, as the case may be.  I'm sure 
> many of your users HotSync on more than one machine (like myself) and 
> have items we would like to keep seperated.

	Good idea :) Be sure to let me know once I add support for private
items ;)

> Thanks for making such a great product! I just registered it this 
> week, and am still learning the ins and outs of it.  I have one 
> additional suggestion; have you seen the Datebk4 cookbook?
> 
> http://how.to/datebk-cookbook

	Nope. Keen, thanks. A FAQ for users, hu? I've been planning such a
thing since the beginning, but Iv'e no time as yet to build
it. Development is enough, and keeping the Refd Guide in sync.. I'd like a
User Guide and whatnot, a better cookbook (like the screenbshot recipies
in the ref guide, but useful).

	Ah, free time is too elusive :)

> It might help you develop documentation and FAQ's if you were to put 
> something similar on your website, as many of your users could 
> contribute their ideas, tips and techniques for using ShadowPlan.  
> Just a thought...

	You mean a webpage for people to submit things to the cookbook? I
could easily do that. Or perhaps a mailing list to may suggestions
in? (like this one, with moderated content)

> I'm looking forward to seeing the converters (and later the desktop!)

	Still in design and buildsing; I was going to make some raw
converters, but instead are working on the base desktop application
(codename Kickaha :), which will have conversion as its first uses.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Anthony Mylonas wrote:

> I would just like to know (just know i am not exercizing any pressure :)  )
> a loose time table covering the progress of the  XML to ..... . file
> translators and the Shadow Desktop now that we have a feature rich,
> relatively bug free life saver like Shadow

	Can't give a timeline right now; I've been taking it easy for
about 10 days, while working on polishing the design of the desktop
applications (ie: How thye'll work, how to make them portable to various
platforms, etc etc). I was going to go right ball,s out for
translators.. we'll see. I think I'm going to go towards working on the
desktop app framework, but so stripped down it can onyl do file
conversion. Thats a bit more work, but is more on-the-true-path than just
creating a one-way set of converters.

	What sort of stuff do you need converted? You can already export
to DOC, and then to other things, or via memos, etc. The desktop
conversion stuff is probably a few weeks away (for alpha), and a month
away for beta. Could be weeks, if I get lots of free time. *shrug*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tonyelit@s...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> I think I'm going to go towards working on the
> desktop app framework, but so stripped down it can onyl do file
> conversion. Thats a bit more work, but is more on-the-true-path 
than just creating a one-way set of converters.
No arument here If a basic desktop comes out i will be more than 
satisfied
 	What sort of stuff do you need converted? You can already 
export
> to DOC, and then to other things, or via memos, etc. The desktop
> conversion stuff is probably a few weeks away (for alpha), and a 
month
> away for beta. Could be weeks, if I get lots of free time. *shrug*
How can i help you find this free time? watch your kids, fix your 
garden? Seriously what i would like to see is 
a) initially word outline support ( Shadow level 1 using Heading 1 
style in word, level2 using heading2 ). But maybe perhaps this more 
the work of an advanced macro than  a file converter
b) import to Ms Project of all possible information (Tasks, supported 
dates, notes. i realize that info such as link information might not 
survive an import export information

Exporting if and when it comes should support only Ms project

Thanks for an another record breaking response

From: kencn@a...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:47pm
Subject: Handera 330 support

Jeff,

Though I may not be the first on my block to get one, the new Handera 
is the most tempting Palm-based PDA I've seen in a long time.  Hope 
you're planning on adding support for it at some point.  I noticed 
that there's already a new version of Wordsmith out that supports the 
Handera's higher resolution, rotatable screen and collapsing virtual 
graffiti area.  Makes me wonder how much development effort is 
involved in supporting these new capabilities.  I would love to see 
Shadow take advantage of those things.  Maybe you could even add the 
ability to link to its voice recordings - would be way cool.

Ken

From: Matthew.Blair@i...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 11:40pm
Subject: Yet another feature request

Jeff,

I know that you have dismissed supporting dependencies due to the 
desire to avoid "visual spaghetti" :-)  However, I wondered if you 
would be able to build a slightly less ambitious form of dependencies 
in.  Actually, not so much "able to build", as I am sure you are, but 
more like "willing to build" :-)

Specifically - I think it would be kind of handy if one could set a 
start date for a list item as "after other item is completed", and 
the target date for that same item as "N days after start".  Then, 
when one checked off an item which had a dependency, the dependent 
item's start and target date would be updated automagically.

I wouldn't want any lines or arrows indicating dependencies, but a 
simple column (much like the ToDo link column) would be sufficient to 
indicate a dependent item.  Or maybe even to preface the item entry 
with a special character.

I don't ask for much :-)

Thanks, and I'm looking forward to working with 1.5.4!

Matthew

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 0:51am
Subject: Re: Handera 330 support

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> Though I may not be the first on my block to get one, the new Handera 
> is the most tempting Palm-based PDA I've seen in a long time.  Hope 
> you're planning on adding support for it at some point.  I noticed 

	Damng straight.

	I only wish Handspring made a Prism in 320x200. I'd kill for
something like that :) I can't give up colour at this point.

> that there's already a new version of Wordsmith out that supports the 
> Handera's higher resolution, rotatable screen and collapsing virtual 
> graffiti area.  Makes me wonder how much development effort is 
> involved in supporting these new capabilities.  I would love to see 
> Shadow take advantage of those things.  Maybe you could even add the 
> ability to link to its voice recordings - would be way cool.

	Not sure about the collapsing grafitti -- does it always pop out
on the bottom, or can it pop up top, to avoid covering an area of the
screen you're using? Certainly I expect to support the higher resolution,
in terms of giving you more stuff onscreen. I'll have to have font support
too, then, so you can increase font size instead of getting more space, if
you want it.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 0:56am
Subject: Re: Yet another feature request

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 Matthew.Blair@i... wrote:

> I know that you have dismissed supporting dependencies due to the 
> desire to avoid "visual spaghetti" :-)  However, I wondered if you 
> would be able to build a slightly less ambitious form of dependencies 

	Well, not dismissed.. I prefer to say "put off" ;) I may add the
indentation lines or whatever they're called.. some Progect users fixed my
brain and I'll agree they do look sharp sometimes. But true dependancies
(ie: Item 10 depends on item 1, in a different subgroup even) is a long
ways off yet.

> Specifically - I think it would be kind of handy if one could set a 
> start date for a list item as "after other item is completed", and 
> the target date for that same item as "N days after start".  Then, 
> when one checked off an item which had a dependency, the dependent 
> item's start and target date would be updated automagically.

	Relative dates are way cool and in my todo list. "XX days after
parent" and such, for sure. After desktop gets useful.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Doug Roberts  <doug@b...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:17am
Subject: RE: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most agree?

-----Original Message-----
From: tonyelit@s... [mailto:tonyelit@s...]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:08 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Info on ETA of file translators


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> I think I'm going to go towards working on the
> desktop app framework, but so stripped down it can onyl do file
> conversion. Thats a bit more work, but is more on-the-true-path 
than just creating a one-way set of converters.
No arument here If a basic desktop comes out i will be more than 
satisfied
 	What sort of stuff do you need converted? You can already 
export
> to DOC, and then to other things, or via memos, etc. The desktop
> conversion stuff is probably a few weeks away (for alpha), and a 
month
> away for beta. Could be weeks, if I get lots of free time. *shrug*
How can i help you find this free time? watch your kids, fix your 
garden? Seriously what i would like to see is 
a) initially word outline support ( Shadow level 1 using Heading 1 
style in word, level2 using heading2 ). But maybe perhaps this more 
the work of an advanced macro than  a file converter
b) import to Ms Project of all possible information (Tasks, supported 
dates, notes. i realize that info such as link information might not 
survive an import export information

Exporting if and when it comes should support only Ms project

Thanks for an another record breaking response 



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

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From: llee@w...
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:36am
Subject: Re: question on purging to-do items

> > Jeff, have you ever considered an option that says, "re-create 
links"? 
> > Too troublesome?
> 
> 	Hmm, interesting. I can't see why someone would want to do 
that,
> though. Coudl be done pretty easily, but its evil :) (ie: They're 
broken
> because you intentionally deleted the data, in which case you can 
link
> them again by hand. If they're broken due to a naughty app, or bad 
hotsync
> restore, then you dont' want Shadow to create doubles or triples of 
the
> items do you? Instead, use a better restore tool..)


Okay, point taken. :) I was just curious because I'd been tinkering 
around with POSE (the palm emulator) and Shadow -- I had some 
harrowing hotsync issues with my handheld (I know, the manual says 
"don't use your Palm's hotsync ID) but I was trying to see if I could 
modify data on the Palm emulator and then hotsync it back directly to 
the handheld.

Syncing things eventually worked but I had to jump through a few hoops 
each time and the risk (e.g. handheld would always be overwritten by 
the desktop by default) wasn't worth it.

I got the Palm Vx folding keyboard instead and I'm getting by for now. 
:)

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 2:49pm
Subject: RE: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Doug Roberts wrote:

> Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most agree?

	I wouldn't say most -- I'd say its av even split between project
managers and structured document users, as well as those just keeping
todos, lists, etc. But certainly MSWord and MSPRoject are way up on my
list of formats, though for Word I'll likely just use RTF. Words format is
ugly and very specific, so in generral I like to stick to more open
standards. We'll see..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:11pm
Subject: How can shadow help me run my life?

Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains, please?
(It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)

I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
involved in project-based work.
I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like the 'look
and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and could
adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to give me
a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as short and
long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could use one
humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.

In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2 levels of
nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few, linear or
hierarchical projects.

Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?

Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a closed
loop right back to the author.!!

Andy

(PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a PIIIe,
d'you think?)

* Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)

From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:11pm
Subject: RE: File translators

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeff Mitchell [SMTP:support@s...]
> Sent:	Tuesday, April 24, 2001 3:50 PM
> To:	shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: Info on ETA of file translators
> 
> 	I wouldn't say most -- I'd say its an even split between project
> managers and structured document users, as well as those just keeping
> todos, lists, etc.
> 
	>>>>>>>>>Some of us are different users at different times, as I use
shadow for: documents, projects as well as shopping lists. That's the wonder
of shadow, Jeff!!!

	Andy

From: hisimage8@y...
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 5:40pm
Subject: Default Color

In Messages 420 and 428 I asked about color -- both default and one-
tap changeability -- and you asked me to mention it again in a couple 
of weeks.  So, here's the mention.  This question was in regards to 
changing the default color for an entire outline and also the ability 
to quickly change an outlines' text color depending on what 
background you may be using (as with Chrome).  

Know you're busy but wanted to make sure that this item stayed 
somewhere on the radar screen. 

Thanks
Pat

From: web_egroups@r...
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

> > Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most 
agree? 

> I wouldn't say most -- I'd say its av even split between project 
managers and structured document users, as well as those just keeping 
todos, lists, etc. But certainly MSWord and MSPRoject are way up on 
my list of formats, though for Word I'll likely just use RTF. Words 
format is ugly and very specific, so in generral I like to stick to 
more open standards. We'll see. . 

You don't need a Word importer to get an outline view. Just save it 
as an HTML file and open that with word. The heading will convert 
over fine and will nest correctly in the outline view. At this point 
you can also save the file as a standard Word document.

This should be the case with most word processors. Since almost every 
word processor can import basic HTML documents correctly, there 
should be no need to create custom file filters for every WP 
available.

The only problem will likely occur when adding additional 
information, such as dates, notes, links, etc. However these can be 
formatted using the XML style sheet.

Jim

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:14am
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, MacQueen, Andy wrote:

> (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a PIIIe,
> d'you think?)

	Quickbits might help a bit, but its main boost is in display
speeds and things, IIRC. I use AfterBurner (cause I have a Prism, and
running at 45mHz makes me giggle), which in general speeds up darned near
everything. In general, display speedups may help a bit for Shadow, but
not much (I imagine.. I've not tested). Clock speedups will help more, I'd
think, since Shadow can be pretty processor intensive with many
operations.

	Shadow should be pretty fast, except sometimes for open/close on
larger lists. I hope to address that after the desktop stuff comes out.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:21am
Subject: Re: Default Color

On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 hisimage8@y... wrote:

> In Messages 420 and 428 I asked about color -- both default and one-
> tap changeability -- and you asked me to mention it again in a couple 
> of weeks.  So, here's the mention.  This question was in regards to 
> changing the default color for an entire outline and also the ability 
> to quickly change an outlines' text color depending on what 
> background you may be using (as with Chrome).  

	What do you mean "depending on the background"? Automaticly
chosing a fg based on bg is a pain ;)

	So you really want list prefs for the following: bg1, fg1, bg2,
fg2 (bg1/fg1 for when its normally white, and bg2/fg2 when its normally
blue)?

> Know you're busy but wanted to make sure that this item stayed 
> somewhere on the radar screen. 

	Keep bugging me. Trying to take a bit of a break, and work on the
design of the desktop app.. theres a lot to consider when doing cross
platform, and the conduit is a killer ;) Lots to come..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ncordle@c...
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 0:49pm
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

Well, it's certainly not elegant, but here's my solution...

I have created multiple lists in Shadow related to personal projects, 
company projects, "stuff I want to learn more about,"  the ubiquitous 
shopping list, etc.  and use Shadow Categories to organize these 
lists.  

Then, I use Shadow to manage the detail, data entry, task/project 
structure, etc. and link to DateBook or ToDo applications.

When I'm on the go, I use the built in ToDo and Datebook apps to show 
me instantly "What's next."  The key for me is taking time regularly 
(weekly) and digging into the detailed view in Shadow to make sure 
I've planned my work that moves me forward.  Then, I just need quick 
glances daily to work my plan.  Of course, Shadow always lurks in the 
background, and I can dig into the detailed lists and views anytime I 
want.  I have chosen to use Datebook and ToDo as the window into 
Shadowland! :-)

Probably not plowing any new ground there, but maybe there's an 
affirmation or nugget for you.

Neal


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "MacQueen, Andy" <AMacQueen@o...> wrote:
> Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains, 
please?
> (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
> 
> I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
> involved in project-based work.
> I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like 
the 'look
> and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
> Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and 
could
> adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
> Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to 
give me
> a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as 
short and
> long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could 
use one
> humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
> 
> In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2 
levels of
> nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few, 
linear or
> hierarchical projects.
> 
> Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
> 
> Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a 
closed
> loop right back to the author.!!
> 
> Andy
> 
> (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a 
PIIIe,
> d'you think?)
> 
> * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 ncordle@c... wrote:

> When I'm on the go, I use the built in ToDo and Datebook apps to show 
> me instantly "What's next."  The key for me is taking time regularly 
> (weekly) and digging into the detailed view in Shadow to make sure 
> I've planned my work that moves me forward.  Then, I just need quick 

	This reminds me of an old idea; a pref that causes Shadow to
auto-link anitem to todo if various conditions come true; I forget what
they are, but things like start-date passing, etc. We ought refine this a
bit. There were some good ideas just a month or so ago, I think..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Rick Silver  <rick@m...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

From: ncordle@c...
>I have chosen to use Datebook and ToDo as the window into
>Shadowland! :-)

Take a look at DateBk4.   It itegrates Datebook and Todo very nicely.
DateBk4 works wonderfully with Shadow as a window.

Rick


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "MacQueen, Andy" <AMacQueen@o...> wrote:
 > Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains,
please?
 > (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
 >
 > I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
 > involved in project-based work.
 > I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like
the 'look
 > and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
 > Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and
could
 > adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
 > Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to
give me
 > a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as
short and
 > long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could
use one
 > humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
 >
 > In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2
levels of
 > nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few,
linear or
 > hierarchical projects.
 >
 > Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
 >
 > Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a
closed
 > loop right back to the author.!!
 >
 > Andy
 >
 > (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a
PIIIe,
 > d'you think?)
 >
 > * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)


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From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 3:39pm
Subject: RE: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

This sounds like a very neat idea. I wonder what % of users have Shadow as a
front end and what % use DateBk, or the native apps as windows into Shadow?

Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeff Mitchell [SMTP:support@s...]
> Sent:	Wednesday, April 25, 2001 2:23 PM
> To:	shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: How can shadow help me run my life?
> 
> 	This reminds me of an old idea; a pref that causes Shadow to
> auto-link anitem to todo if various conditions come true; I forget what
> they are, but things like start-date passing, etc. We ought refine this a
> bit. There were some good ideas just a month or so ago, I think..
> 
> 		jeff

From: merobbins@m...
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 3:50pm
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

Andy,

There is a lot of usefull information about personal organization on 
the web site of David Allen(time/life management guru).  The web site 
at Davidco.com has specific tips on organizing projects and tasks 
using a Palm device (suggests lists, catagories and how to use them. 
I found the tips usefull for setting up and using Shadow and the 
built in applications.  Palm use is also a frequent topic on the DA 
message board and there are a lot of Shadow and Progect users on 
there to offer help.

I got most of what I needed from the web site but his book "Getting 
Things Done" is a great guide/reference too.  I have the hard cover, 
but wish it was available as ebook.

Matt
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "MacQueen, Andy" <AMacQueen@o...> wrote:
> Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains, 
please?
> (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
> 
> I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
> involved in project-based work.
> I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like 
the 'look
> and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
> Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and 
could
> adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
> Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to 
give me
> a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as 
short and
> long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could 
use one
> humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
> 
> In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2 
levels of
> nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few, 
linear or
> hierarchical projects.
> 
> Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
> 
> Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a 
closed
> loop right back to the author.!!
> 
> Andy
> 
> (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a 
PIIIe,
> d'you think?)
> 
> * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)

From: Peter R Grierson  <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 26, 2001 6:38am
Subject: RE: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 "Doug Roberts" <doug@b...> wrote:


Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most agree?

=====

I might if I could ever figure out MS Word Outline.

I have tried and so far met with the agony of defeat.

Do you have suggestions on how to approach it or a source that explains its
w