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701

From: robertsjb2000@y...
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 5:49am
Subject: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., kencn@a... wrote:
> Actually, If I understand what you want, the current release of 
> Shadow does this already.  You specify a default category as a list-
> level preference (it's under the Opt button on the List Preferences 
> screen) and Shadow puts linked todos that it creates into that 
> category or puts them in Unfiled if a matching category doesn't 
exist 
> in the Todo database. Very slick.  
> 
> The next feature I'd like to see added is to allow categories to be 
> assigned at the item level.  This would allow Shadow to create 
todos 
> in multiple todo categories from a single list.  It could also 
allow 
> category-based filtering in Shadow. Never the less, the current 
> implementation is very handy.
> 
> Ken

Thanks for pointing this out!  You're right though, it would be the 
ultimate in versatility to be able to assign the categories at the 
item level. (How about it Jeff?) In the meantime, I'll start playing 
what's already there.  Thanks again.
702

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 2:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

 
On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Victor Krongold wrote:

> To replace the Todo application there is definetly a need for an auto 
> import feature that could be selected by the user. I would suggest a 
> category oriented strategy. This means that if the autoimport feature 
> is selected by the user all the todos of some category are imported 
> in a list of the same category in shadow with the default Unfiled 
> category in the case this category is not defined in shadow. This 
> list could be fixed like "todo-category".
> 
> In my case what would happen is each time I hotsynced with Outlook I 
> launch Shadow and Voila al the todos are there per category.

	I'm not sdure thats useful.. since you could have a million old
todos in their, and bringing them into a list would be alot of work, when
you'd never care. I could see perhaps bringing in a subset ("this
months" or something). But even then.. do you only want new ones? Or do
you want new ones to go to certain shadow files? (that you pick)

	Time to review all the expected uses and see whats really
needed. A gutt feel here may be a miss..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
703

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

 
On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 robertsjb2000@y... wrote:

> I understand the desire to be able to import to-do's and I have to 
> agree with an earlier post--allowing the ability to import todos from 
> a category into the same category in Shadow with todos from a 
> category not listed in Shadow falling into the unfiled category by 
> default makes sense to me.

	Woa; thats quite a mouthful ;)

> However, what I'd really like to be able to do is the reverse.  I'd 
> like to create the item in Shadow and then while creating the link, 
> send it to a specified category in the ToDo program.  Perhaps this 

	In 1.5.x, you can specify a todo target category on a shadow file
by file basis. I'll soon add the ability to override that for sublevels,
items, and such. It won't be a "at link time, pop up a list" sort of
picker.. but before you set a link, you can set a category for the item,
ro all items below an item, and then links created will go to that. For
1.5.0, though, you can only specify todo link by file.

> Also, you asked me to remind you about keyboard support and I've seen 
> others have already picked up the call.  However, just to add my 
> voice to the list, it will be great to get added keyboard support 
> with access to the menu with the scroll arrow keys (ala Wordsmith).  

	I'll have to look into it .. I like to leave that sort of thing to
the OS, but if the OS doesnt' do it, and its really desirable, I could add
it. *Shrug*

> to child and the reverse were to be done with the use of the tab and 
> shift-tab keys.  This would make it similar to alot of word 
> processing programs and I wouldn't have to think so much about what 
> keys to hit. Just a thought!

	Backspace and space no good?

	I could add tab/s-tab, but it seems redundant..

> Keep up the good work Jeff.  The program's awesome and so is your 
> customer support.

	Thanks :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
704

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 3:04pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

 
On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 jimfreda@y... wrote:

> Jeff, Nice application. It seems very powerful and well thought 
> out.

	Thanks!

> many nice linking features and screen options. One view option 
> that I would appreciate, since I have lots of long and multi-
> levelled lists, would be to able to add some lines between 
> entries, showing how they are related, vertical and horizontal 
> lines like this:

	I always avoided dependancy lines, since if you're 3 or 4 levels
deep, in a loooong sublevel, onscreen you might just see:

 | | | | > some item

	And its not useful..

	But I think for most people, it may be. Its on my list, but has
fallen down in favour of desktop support and other stuff..

> Another thing I would like would be to have a arrows button box 
> at the bottom allowing me to promote, demote or just move 
> around a highlighted item. Your system for dragging and 
> dropping is really clever, but I haven't quite got the knack of it
> yet. 

	Theres also "right swipe" (space) to push right, and "left
swipe" (backspace) to promote.. works pretty well. I may add an expert
icon bar, turned on via pref, which has a pile of little buttosn on it..

	Thanks for writing. Focusing on desktop right now, but I'll get
back to general fixes soon..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
705

From: robertsjb2000@y...
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2001 11:49pm
Subject: Re: Auto import todo/datebook (again)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> I'll soon add the ability to override that for sublevels,
> items, and such. It won't be a "at link time, pop up a list" sort of
> picker.. but before you set a link, you can set a category for the 
item,
> ro all items below an item, and then links created will go to that.

This sounds like it would do whats needed.  Is a pop up list of the 
categories, like you've implemented on the file level, just too 
difficult to implement on an item level? 

> 
> 	Backspace and space no good?
> 
> 	I could add tab/s-tab, but it seems redundant..

The backspace/space keys work, I just have to think about what keys 
I'm using, particularly when I switch from using a word processor for 
outlining to Shadow.  If its just me, there's probably no point in 
making the change--I'll learn to live with it.  I just thought that 
the tab/s-tab might be something more intuitive and expected by 
others using the program.

As always, thanks for the quick responses!
706

From: Terry Kyte  <kyte@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:03am
Subject: RE: Expert Icon Bar

 
>From: jimfreda@y... [mailto:jimfreda@y...]
>
>Another thing I would like would be to have a arrows button box
>at the bottom allowing me to promote, demote or just move
>around a highlighted item. Your system for dragging and
>dropping is really clever, but I haven't quite got the knack of it
>yet.

I have to agree.  I find the IIIc screen very unforgiving at times - often
have trouble getting it to recognize a character.  Same with dragging
items - I find it jumps all over the place and I end up dropping it
somewhere else... it gets frustrating.  I believe it would be nice if you
had promote/demote/move buttons on the screen and an option to enable or
disable moving by dragging and dropping.  Sometimes I inadvertently drag an
item to some other location and have to move it back.  I know the screen is
prime real estate and you have the shortcut strokes to promote & demote, but
I would still vote for an "expert icon bar, turned on via pref, which has a
pile of little buttons on it".
707

From: dammala@r...
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 6:23am
Subject: icon bar and 1 more

 
I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.
I'd also like you to consider 1 more feature.

I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not allow 
them or offer to delete them.

Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?

Dirk
708

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:18pm
Subject: re: auto-imprt; tab key for promote?

 
On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 robertsjb2000@y... wrote:

> > I'll soon add the ability to override that for sublevels,
> > items, and such. It won't be a "at link time, pop up a list" sort of
> > picker.. but before you set a link, you can set a category for the 
> item,
> > ro all items below an item, and then links created will go to that.
> 
> This sounds like it would do whats needed.  Is a pop up list of the 
> categories, like you've implemented on the file level, just too 
> difficult to implement on an item level? 

	Links can be created many ways; popping up a list at creaiton time
is not useful. ie: On the flat viuew, or when you've activated the todo
link column.. you wantone tap to create a link.. not one tap to create,
another to pick category, maybe with scrolling. So it is specified ahead
of time.

	You'll be able to specify it for any item, or item below the
current item.

> > 	Backspace and space no good?
> > 	I could add tab/s-tab, but it seems redundant..
> 
> The backspace/space keys work, I just have to think about what keys 
> I'm using, particularly when I switch from using a word processor for 
> outlining to Shadow.  If its just me, there's probably no point in 
> making the change--I'll learn to live with it.  I just thought that 
> the tab/s-tab might be something more intuitive and expected by 
> others using the program.

	Sure; I've no problem adding another key for it.. just dont' want
to find a use for the tab key letter and have it already used ;)

	Does anyone else want the tab key to do proote/demote?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
709

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: Re: RE: Expert Icon Bar

 
On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Terry Kyte wrote:

> I have to agree.  I find the IIIc screen very unforgiving at times - often
> have trouble getting it to recognize a character.  Same with dragging
> items - I find it jumps all over the place and I end up dropping it
> somewhere else... it gets frustrating.  I believe it would be nice if you
> had promote/demote/move buttons on the screen and an option to enable or
> disable moving by dragging and dropping.  Sometimes I inadvertently drag an
> item to some other location and have to move it back.  I know the screen is
> prime real estate and you have the shortcut strokes to promote & demote, but
> I would still vote for an "expert icon bar, turned on via pref, which has a
> pile of little buttons on it".

	OKay; so what operations do you want on the expert bar?

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
710

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 1:41pm
Subject: Re: icon bar and 1 more

 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 dammala@r... wrote:

> I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.

	Any other operations you'd want in a bar?

> I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not allow 
> them or offer to delete them.

	You'd have to define "duplicates" ;) I dont' think this is wise
though -- it'd be a slow operation in a 300 item list to compare a new
item to all previous items. And you definitely need to allow duplicates in
different sublevels, since many items coudl have a "begin" sub item, say,
or a common book name, or common person name, or the like. So its very
personal and custom..

	Besides.. duplicate would be text + note + dates + check + ...

> Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?

	I'm planning on allowing you to do a "merge" of one list onto the
end of another, from the file selection screen..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
711

From: Aaron Ebata  <aebata@h...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: RE: re: auto-imprt; tab key for promote?

 
There have been several suggestions for promotion/demotion. I think
tab/s-tab could work, but I also think an arrow key combination (e.g.,
ctrl-arrow) for moving items (the equivalent of dragging and dropping) would
be even better for me....

Aaron

> > The backspace/space keys work, I just have to think about what keys
> > I'm using, particularly when I switch from using a word processor for
> > outlining to Shadow.  If its just me, there's probably no point in
> > making the change--I'll learn to live with it.  I just thought that
> > the tab/s-tab might be something more intuitive and expected by
> > others using the program.
>
> 	Sure; I've no problem adding another key for it.. just dont' want
> to find a use for the tab key letter and have it already used ;)
>
> 	Does anyone else want the tab key to do proote/demote?
712

From: Michael K. Brown  <brown_m_k@h...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:11pm
Subject: Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan, also bug with Bubble Priorities.

 
Hi Folks!

I'm trying out Shadow Plan after having used Progect for a while (unfortunately, Progect appears to have slowly died off).  I'd like to try importing some of the more complicated outlines in, and avoid a lot of cutting and pasting (if possible).  I've been using the export to memo option in Progect, and having everything end up in the details line in ShadowPlan, where I've had to create the dates using the date picker, and delete the rest of it.  Has anyone got any suggestions for a better way to do it, or am I already doing it?

This next one's for Jeff:  There appears to be a bug on Monochrome devices when trying to use the "Bubble Priorities".  It took me a bit to figure it out, but when I try to create a task list or a custom view with "Bubble Priorities", I get a Fatal Exception the moment I leave the List Preferences Dialog.  The change is (obviously) not retained once the reset is done.  This is reproducible on my device 100% of the time when attempting to create the preference setting for task list or custom view, while the "Number priority; not bubble" preference is NOT checked.  When it is checked, there is no problem in creating Task lists or custom views.  Has anyone else encountered this?

FYI... Here's the particulars...

TRGpro running OS 3.5.1 with AutoCF 1.1
The stock Application Launcher
X-Master with the following Hacks:
McPhling
Clock Pop
Keyb+Graffiti
Crash
Keyz
DiddleBug ScreenCap
Uptime Hack
MiddleCapsHack
ClipStringHack

I just nuked FindIgnoreHack 1.4, because I just found out it conflicts with new versions of Avantgo - Thanks go to Mike McCollister for the assist there!

If any former Progect users might have any tips for me, they'd be greatly appreciated!  I'm on day two of the trial  ;-)

Thanks for your time!

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
713

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan, also bug with Bubble Priorities.

 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Michael K. Brown wrote:

> I'm trying out Shadow Plan after having used Progect for a while
> (unfortunately, Progect appears to have slowly died off).  I'd like to
> try importing some of the more complicated outlines in, and avoid a
> lot of cutting and pasting (if possible).  I've been using the export
> to memo option in Progect, and having everything end up in the details
> line in ShadowPlan, where I've had to create the dates using the date
> picker, and delete the rest of it.  Has anyone got any suggestions for
> a better way to do it, or am I already doing it?

	My importer isn't yet smart enough to pick up dates and
such. Since every outliner does it differently, I only made Shadow smart
enough to guess at some of the items. I know I need to improve it :/

	Once I get a desktop application out, it may help..

> This next one's for Jeff:  There appears to be a bug on Monochrome
> devices when trying to use the "Bubble Priorities".  It took me a bit
> to figure it out, but when I try to create a task list or a custom
> view with "Bubble Priorities", I get a Fatal Exception the moment I
> leave the List Preferences Dialog.  The change is (obviously) not

	It means you've imported a list that defined some outragous
priority value, and your'e using shadow 1.5.0 and it lets you get away
with it ;) (ie: Shadow sees [xx] and assumes xx to be a prioreity 1-5.

	Get this alpha:

	http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow153.zip

	It won't let imported priorities get carried away. I think its
that alpha.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
714

From: Matthew.Blair@i...
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:29pm
Subject: bug in ToDo links

 
Hi,

When I delete an item that was linked to the ToDo database, the 
corresponding item in the ToDo database is not deleted also.  Is this 
a bug or a feature :-)

Thanks,

Matthew
715

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 8:36pm
Subject: Re: bug in ToDo links

 
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 Matthew.Blair@i... wrote:

> When I delete an item that was linked to the ToDo database, the 
> corresponding item in the ToDo database is not deleted also.  Is this 
> a bug or a feature :-)

	Feature; there is a pref in 1.5.x so you can tell shadow to delete
an linked object along with the deleted item (todo and datebook only, of
course :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
716

From: GL Bucher  <buch2001@u...>
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2001 9:09pm
Subject: RE: icon bar and 1 more

 
How about the "collapse all", "expand all" commands on this expert bar, and
maybe zoom...

Gary
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
  Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 3:42 PM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] icon bar and 1 more


  On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 dammala@r... wrote:

  > I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.

        Any other operations you'd want in a bar?

  > I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not allow
  > them or offer to delete them.

        You'd have to define "duplicates" ;) I dont' think this is wise
  though -- it'd be a slow operation in a 300 item list to compare a new
  item to all previous items. And you definitely need to allow duplicates in
  different sublevels, since many items coudl have a "begin" sub item, say,
  or a common book name, or common person name, or the like. So its very
  personal and custom..

        Besides.. duplicate would be text + note + dates + check + ...

  > Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?

        I'm planning on allowing you to do a "merge" of one list onto the
  end of another, from the file selection screen..

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
717

From: dammala@r...
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:37pm
Subject: Re: icon bar and 1 more

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > I'd like a "bar" to move promote, and demote items as well.
> 
> 	Any other operations you'd want in a bar?

Expand All
Collapse all
promote
demote
move up
move down
delete
details
page up
page down


> > I'd like the ability to search for duplicates in a list and not 
allow 
> > them or offer to delete them.
> 
> 	You'd have to define "duplicates" ;) I dont' think this is 
wise
> though
> 	Besides.. duplicate would be text + note + dates + check + ...
>

I'm only looking for duplicates in the details screen. It helps 
greatly when making lists like shopping or packing lists. It doesn't 
have to be the whole database just the details screen to keep me from 
entering "underwear" twice :)It could even be just in the desktop 
version as a menu item. I've used just about every outliner out there 
and this is one of the features of ListMaker that I liked a lot.

BTW, your linking feature is the best.

 
> > Would you consider adding import to the end of an existing list?
> 
> 	I'm planning on allowing you to do a "merge" of one list onto 
the
> end of another, from the file selection screen..
> 
> 		jeff

Merging of Lists would work well for me. Thanks!
718

From: psvincent@m...
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:44pm
Subject: Re: Just dreamin' 'bout features...

 
Yes.  When using a keyboard, it would be great to just magnify all of 
the print on the screen.

Thanks again.

Mark

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 psvincent@m... wrote:
> 
> > 1. fonts, fonts, fonts.   I use a keyboard, and squint a lot 
while 
> > using Shadow.  My optomotrist loves this, but I don't.  Could we 
get 
> > large bold added?
> 
> 	Good point; I'd forgotten about fonts.. I'll have to get back 
to
> add some of these cosmetic niceties again :)
> 
> 	You want a global font change, and not an item by item change,
> right?
719

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: icon bar and 1 more

 
On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 dammala@r... wrote:

> I'm only looking for duplicates in the details screen. It helps 
> greatly when making lists like shopping or packing lists. It doesn't 
> have to be the whole database just the details screen to keep me from 
> entering "underwear" twice :)It could even be just in the desktop 
> version as a menu item. I've used just about every outliner out there 
> and this is one of the features of ListMaker that I liked a lot.

	Use the local find, maybe? Just tap the magnifier, enter
"undearwear", and it'll tell you if you got it already :)

	Not sure I like adding a duplicate checker.. it'd be slow, and
very specific to a given use..

> BTW, your linking feature is the best.

	Thanks :)

	I'll consider the other things..

	Someone draw me up a bunch of 10x10 or maybe 12x10 icons ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
720

From: llee@w...
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:02pm
Subject: question on purging to-do items

 
I'm sort of thinking aloud here... I haven't purged the completed 
items out of my To-do database since I've started using Shadow 
extensively.

Based on what I read from the documentation... I guess it follows that 
if you have Shadow project items linked to your to-do database and you 
complete/purge those items out of to-do... then Shadow will alert you 
that the links have been broken, right?

(And at that point you would want to say, "sever all links.")


Jeff, have you ever considered an option that says, "re-create links"? 
Too troublesome?

Just curious,
Larry
721

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:15pm
Subject: Re: question on purging to-do items

 
On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 llee@w... wrote:

> I'm sort of thinking aloud here... I haven't purged the completed 
> items out of my To-do database since I've started using Shadow 
> extensively.
> 
> Based on what I read from the documentation... I guess it follows that 
> if you have Shadow project items linked to your to-do database and you 
> complete/purge those items out of to-do... then Shadow will alert you 
> that the links have been broken, right?
> 
> (And at that point you would want to say, "sever all links.")

	Yep, exactly.

> Jeff, have you ever considered an option that says, "re-create links"? 
> Too troublesome?

	Hmm, interesting. I can't see why someone would want to do that,
though. Coudl be done pretty easily, but its evil :) (ie: They're broken
because you intentionally deleted the data, in which case you can link
them again by hand. If they're broken due to a naughty app, or bad hotsync
restore, then you dont' want Shadow to create doubles or triples of the
items do you? Instead, use a better restore tool..)

	Hmm..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
722

From: L Newman  <lnewman@n...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:54am
Subject: Another suggestion

 
Hi

We all want something, don't we? Poor Jeff!

FWIW I'd like a datebook link column option the same as the to do link
column.  That way I could link and unlink items to To Do and Datebook
without having to open up to detail and then options.  Although, one thing I
don't want is for Shadow to be come too cluttered or slow to move around in.

Len
723

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:51pm
Subject: Thoughts re: tags and re: misc text field

 
This is a clip of something I sent to someone today; I thought you 
guys might care and wish to comment. Its quick, due to my playing catchup 
after a flu, but you get the idea. Please comment... nothing is in stone  
yet.    
        
        1) Misc field; it will be a short text entry field, much like the
item title text field but with a short limit. It will likely be edittable
form the details screen, and maybe from the main list view as well. It   
will be activatable as a Custom View option, where you can request a small
or wide column, depending on your needs. (ie: If you want to see only 2-3 
chars, choose the small column and it'll be to the right of the title
text, like a progress-bar column. If you want a wide text field, ity'll
show up as another row, underneath the title text field). I'm expecting  
users to use this as free-entry -- just write text or numbers or whatever
into the field. I'm not expecting to put a popup there.

        2) Tags; there will be a tag editor screen where you can define up
to 100 tags. You'll be able to link to tags much like linking to the
Address Book in 1.5.x -- pick from a list, or do a quick search. (1.5.0
has a slow address search on some units; it is remedied in a patch coming
out soon, which can search 2000 addresses in a blink). You can thus link 
to as many tags as you like. You will be able to sort and filter on tags,
as well. A tag will be settable via the link manager as above, or also as
a popup column you can request from the Custom Views. I envision tags to 
be used for dependancies, or counts, or codes, or any number of things.  

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
724

From: Samir Kasme  <samir.kasme@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:33pm
Subject: Re : Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan

 
--- Dans shadow-discuss@e..., "Michael K. Brown" <brown_m_k@h...> a 
écrit
> Hi Folks!
> 
> I'm trying out Shadow Plan after having used Progect for a while 
(unfortunately, Progect appears to have slowly died off).  

You're far from being the only one, I myself have just registered 
Shadow because so little was happening on Progect in the last months. 
I think many former Progect users are new Shadow users ;-) That's 
because both products are similar in many ways: Shadow has almost all 
features that Progect has, and many more: I was particularly 
impressed by the linking features!
Progect is a bit more "elegant" and intuitive in use, but that 
doesn't make up for the slowness in its development.

There is actually only ONE Progect's feature that I miss in Shadow, 
it's the very handy "flat view" (in Progect it has a different 
meaning than in Shadow): that view shows only the children tasks, 
with some filtering options. Actually it's not so much the fact that 
it only shows the children tasks that makes it powerful, it's the 
filtering options: I can set priorities to items that require action 
and, e.g. when I plan my day in the morning I can filter only on 
those tasks and have a view with linking boxes, that I can check to 
link items to Datebk4 as appropriate. This way my outline/list can 
contain info-type items (without priority), and also action-type 
items (with priority), with the flat view I can filter only on the 
latter and easily have an overview on what's pending on a particular 
project.

You could achieve that in Shadow with some more filtering options, 
e.g. "Only items with priority different from 'None' " or "Items with 
priority > 5". Currently you can filter "high priority items" but 
that only gets priority 1 and 2, which is not enough for that 
purpose. It doesn't need much actually, it's already pretty close..

Of course even better would be such a filter across all lists (or a 
group of lists / a category) and not only within one list, but that's 
probably more of a challenge... Would be REALLY perfect though, 
because you could get the overview on all your pending tasks, filterd 
by priority...

After browsing this mailing list archives I saw this feature was 
considered by Jeff a while ago, although I understand the conduit has 
taken up a higher priority lately. But I do hope it will be 
implemented in some way, that would make Shadow so much powerful for 
progect/ task management.

>I'd like to try importing some of the more complicated outlines [...]

That's how I did it: 

- Export to DOC from Progect (otherwise you don't get the Notes)
- Open with Quickword (or Wordsmith / pedit)
- Export to Memopad
- Hotsync
- Edit the memo on PC, replacing all headers with tabs / spaces / 
Notes tags, to accomodate for Shadow's importing format
- Hotsync
- Import from Memopad to Shadow

It's a bit messy, but that's the only way I found to get the notes 
attached to Progect's items, and the editing/replacing on PC is 
faster than you would think


Thanks Jeff for the good work sofar, looking forward to what's coming 
up..

Samir
725

From: rsivertsen@h...
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:01pm
Subject: Import from MS Project or the like

 
I *LOVE* this app!

I'm a certified FranklinCovey facilitor for What Matters Most(r) and 
What Matters Most(r)for Palm Computing Platforms; and your 
application along with a couple of others like DateBk4 and DayNotez 
has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if 
you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP 
functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking 
Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.

Wow, ok having said that. Has anybody come up with an easy way (or 
know of one) to import projects from any of the off-the-shelf PM 
software, like MS Project or Suretrak?

It'd be so way cool to import say the task descriptions and 
completion dates into ShadowPlan and then link them to datebook items.

Any thoughts anyone?

Keep up the good work, Jeff, I've got one of my Palm killer apps 
right here!

Regards,
R-
726

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:57pm
Subject: Re: Import from MS Project or the like

 
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 rsivertsen@h... wrote:

> I *LOVE* this app!

	Thanks :)

> I'm a certified FranklinCovey facilitor for What Matters Most(r) and 
> What Matters Most(r)for Palm Computing Platforms; and your 
> application along with a couple of others like DateBk4 and DayNotez 
> has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if 
> you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP 
> functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking 
> Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.

	If you want to write something up, I'll plop it onto the website
:)

> Wow, ok having said that. Has anybody come up with an easy way (or 
> know of one) to import projects from any of the off-the-shelf PM 
> software, like MS Project or Suretrak?

	I'm working towards some of this, but still a bit off; once the
two-way conduit is finished, you just need to convert the other formats to
Shadow's XML format, and your'e done. The shadow desktop application (or
side tools) will do these translations. But being one person, it takes
awhile to write :)

> It'd be so way cool to import say the task descriptions and 
> completion dates into ShadowPlan and then link them to datebook items.
> 
> Any thoughts anyone?

	Anyone have a good description of what MS Project .mmp files look
like?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
727

From: easy-123@e...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:40am
Subject: Re: Import from MS Project or the like

 
I was glad to hear that you haven't given up on developing a desktop 
app. In your recent emails you seem to be concentrating on the palm 
OS which is already great. Thanks.


> 	I'm working towards some of this, but still a bit off; once 
the two-way conduit is finished, you just need to convert the other 
formats to Shadow's XML format, and your'e done. The shadow desktop 
application (or side tools) will do these translations. But being one 
person, it takes awhile to write :)
728

From: Samir Kasme  <samir.kasme@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 11:00am
Subject: Re : Import from MS Project or the like

 
> > application along with a couple of others like DateBk4 and 
DayNotez 
> > has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if 
> > you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP 
> > functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking 
> > Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.
> 
> 	If you want to write something up, I'll plop it onto the 
website


Wow, that would be cool, and of great benefit to many many 
ShadowPlan/Datebk4 users...

Samir
729

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Re : Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Samir Kasme" <samir.kasme@s...> wrote:
> Of course even better would be such a filter across all lists (or a 
> group of lists / a category) and not only within one list, but 
that's 
> probably more of a challenge... Would be REALLY perfect though, 
> because you could get the overview on all your pending tasks, 
filterd 
> by priority...

It seems to me that this is just what linking to Datebk4 makes 
completely possible. There the todos of everythink linked with their 
priorities show up -- the pending list. And if Jeff puts in the misc 
field, then any coding or I.D. needed to define what a particular 
todo is connected to will be there as well. 

The ability to know what a particular todo refers to is a constant 
problem with any sort of compiled list. ECCO had that same problem 
without the TL tags. But isn't the Datebk4 todo prefs and listing 
just this sort of filtering? 

I think Shadow is fantastic. I also tend to think a lot of our 
desired improvements are because we haven't got Shadow, Datebk4, 
Action Names, etc., figured out enough for our purposes -- not so 
much what these excellent apps are capable of.
730

From: MGoehmann@t...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 5:02pm
Subject: Re: Import from MS Project or the like

 
Hi,

> has the Franklin Planner Palm Apps beat hands down (contact me if
> you'd like to know how to duplicate almost all of the FP
> functionality with just a few apps). Especially linking
> Values/Roles/Goals/Mission to tasks and datebook entries.

yes, I am very interested to hear how you do it!

Thanks in advance,
Monika
731

From: Samir Kasme  <samir.kasme@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 9:32pm
Subject: Re : Importing from Progect into ShadowPlan

 
--- Dans shadow-discuss@e..., bstryd@a... a écrit
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Samir Kasme" <samir.kasme@s...> wrote:
> > Of course even better would be such a filter across all lists (or 
a 
> > group of lists / a category) and not only within one list, but 
> that's 
> > probably more of a challenge... Would be REALLY perfect though, 
> > because you could get the overview on all your pending tasks, 
> filterd 
> > by priority...
> 
> It seems to me that this is just what linking to Datebk4 makes 
> completely possible. There the todos of everythink linked with their 
> priorities show up -- the pending list. And if Jeff puts in the misc 
> field, then any coding or I.D. needed to define what a particular 
> todo is connected to will be there as well. 
> 

You're completely right, and I have considered using it that way, i.e. 
linking ALL items requiring actions, and handle the filtering, sorting 
etc. in Datebk4. Only that I found it much much better to review my 
tasks "in context", i.e. within a particular list that I know my tasks 
are referring to. In Datebk you only have the item's title and it can 
be difficult to put it into context. 
Now after reading your post I read Jeff's post about misc field and 
tagging, and both look great! If the misc field is carried over to 
Datebk4 (it would have to be in the title itself?), then it would 
allow to have that context information in Datebk4.

>I think Shadow is fantastic. I also tend to think a lot of our 
>desired improvements are because we haven't got 
>Shadow, Datebk4, Action Names, etc., figured out enough for our 
>purposes -- not so much what these excellent apps are capable of.

Agreed: and that's why such mailing lists are so valuable ;-)

Cheers
Samir
732

From: mitz009@a...
Date: Fri Apr 20, 2001 0:10am
Subject: weird problem - just me?

 
Today, I copied an item five times at the same level, under the same 
parent, with the idea that I would just change the a persons name and 
save myself sone time.  I copied, "Follow up with person A re: 
project" five times, with the same target and start dates.  Then, I 
went in to each one sequentially and changed "person A" to "person 
B", "person c", etc.  Then, I saved the list and tapped "done".  All 
items in the list are linked to the to do db, by the way.

Next, I went to Dtbk4.0 and found only one to do.  Went back to 
Shadow, and all five items were exactly the same!  The names had 
reverted back to "person A".  Is this how it's supposed to work?  
Does anybody else find this happening?

Kinda weird.....

Thanks for the help.

Henry
733

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:31am
Subject: Re: weird problem - just me?

 
Its a by-product of the way copies are done, at this time.

	When you copy an item you duplicate it exactly -- the link is not
recreasted, but duplicated, for various reasons. This is useful, but
confusing unless you know it. So, you copy an item, with a link, and then
change the copy.. and they will all revert at sync time (list open). This
is useful for when you copy a item with a link, then paste it into another
file.. then you have two items in two files linked to one todo item. I do
this all the time. Maybe I'm unique :)

	There will be an option soon to let you chose to duplicate the
linked objects, or keep the links to the single object.

		jeff

On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 mitz009@a... wrote:

> Today, I copied an item five times at the same level, under the same 
> parent, with the idea that I would just change the a persons name and 
> save myself sone time.  I copied, "Follow up with person A re: 
> project" five times, with the same target and start dates.  Then, I 
> went in to each one sequentially and changed "person A" to "person 
> B", "person c", etc.  Then, I saved the list and tapped "done".  All 
> items in the list are linked to the to do db, by the way.
> 
> Next, I went to Dtbk4.0 and found only one to do.  Went back to 
> Shadow, and all five items were exactly the same!  The names had 
> reverted back to "person A".  Is this how it's supposed to work?  
> Does anybody else find this happening?
> 
> Kinda weird.....
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Henry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
734

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Thu Apr 19, 2001 10:44pm
Subject: Re: Thoughts re: tags and re: misc text field

 
This sounds awesome!

Greg

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>         1) Misc field; it will be a short text entry field, much 
like the item title text field but with a short limit. It will likely 
be edittable form the details screen, and maybe from the main list 
view as well. It will be activatable as a Custom View option, where 
you can request a small or wide column, depending on your needs. (ie: 
If you want to see only 2-3 chars, choose the small column and it'll 
be to the right of the title text, like a progress-bar column. If you 
want a wide text field, ity'll show up as another row, underneath the 
title text field). I'm expecting users to use this as free-entry -- 
just write text or numbers or whatever into the field. I'm not 
expecting to put a popup there.
> 
>         2) Tags; there will be a tag editor screen where you can 
define up to 100 tags. You'll be able to link to tags much like 
linking to the Address Book in 1.5.x -- pick from a list, or do a 
quick search. (1.5.0 has a slow address search on some units; it is 
remedied in a patch coming out soon, which can search 2000 addresses 
in a blink). You can thus link to as many tags as you like. You will 
be able to sort and filter on tags, as well. A tag will be settable 
via the link manager as above, or also as a popup column you can 
request from the Custom Views. I envision tags to be used for 
dependancies, or counts, or codes, or any number of things.  
>
735

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:48pm
Subject: Re: weird problem - just me?

 
Still it's kind of odd that all the items reverted back to their 
original name too, right? If I would copy an item, I'd expect to get 
a new item which is independent of the original (except for the link 
in this case). So if I changed Person A to Person B, C, etc. I would 
not expect Shadow to revert these items back to Person A when re-
entering the list.

Roy.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Its a by-product of the way copies are done, at this time.
> 
> 	When you copy an item you duplicate it exactly -- the link is 
not
> recreasted, but duplicated, for various reasons. This is useful, but
> confusing unless you know it. So, you copy an item, with a link, 
and then
> change the copy.. and they will all revert at sync time (list 
open). This
> is useful for when you copy a item with a link, then paste it into 
another
> file.. then you have two items in two files linked to one todo 
item. I do
> this all the time. Maybe I'm unique :)
> 
> 	There will be an option soon to let you chose to duplicate the
> linked objects, or keep the links to the single object.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 mitz009@a... wrote:
> 
> > Today, I copied an item five times at the same level, under the 
same 
> > parent, with the idea that I would just change the a persons name 
and 
> > save myself sone time.  I copied, "Follow up with person A re: 
> > project" five times, with the same target and start dates.  Then, 
I 
> > went in to each one sequentially and changed "person A" 
to "person 
> > B", "person c", etc.  Then, I saved the list and tapped "done".  
All 
> > items in the list are linked to the to do db, by the way.
> > 
> > Next, I went to Dtbk4.0 and found only one to do.  Went back to 
> > Shadow, and all five items were exactly the same!  The names had 
> > reverted back to "person A".  Is this how it's supposed to work?  
> > Does anybody else find this happening?
> > 
> > Kinda weird.....
> > 
> > Thanks for the help.
> > 
> > Henry
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
736

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Apr 21, 2001 6:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: weird problem - just me?

 
On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> Still it's kind of odd that all the items reverted back to their 
> original name too, right? If I would copy an item, I'd expect to get 
> a new item which is independent of the original (except for the link 
> in this case). So if I changed Person A to Person B, C, etc. I would 
> not expect Shadow to revert these items back to Person A when re-
> entering the list.

	Its due to the link; both items link to the same object; as such,
they must be the same as the linked object. You change the two of them,
and one of them goes to the link (whichever goes last), and then both
shadow items inherit that on opening the list. It is odd, but it makes
sense, and is sometimes desirable.

	I'll add an option to change this soon, once I work out the
semantics..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
737

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sun Apr 22, 2001 4:33pm
Subject: Re: weird problem - just me?

 
You're right, it makes sense considering the context. But it does 
bring up another interesting topic. The fact that the linked item 
always has the same name/description as the corresponding item in 
Shadow is not always desirable.

Consider for example a Shadow list with two branches: "Project 1" 
and "Project 2". Each of these branches has a sub-branch 
called "Testing" and both of these have a link to the ToDo database. 
This leads to two (seemingly) identical ToDo's. In Shadow, I can see 
which one belongs to which project but in the ToDo list, both show up 
as "Testing". The only way to prevent this is to have the 
descriptions of all Shadow items include a "path" from the root of 
each branch to that particular item (e.g. "Project1 -> 
Testing", "Project 2 -> Testing"). This is not only cumbersome but 
also leads to cluttered, redundant Shadow lists.

Would it be possible to (optionally) have independent Shadow and link 
descriptions?

Roy.

> 	Its due to the link; both items link to the same object;
> as such, they must be the same as the linked object. You change
> the two of them, and one of them goes to the link (whichever
> goes last), and then both shadow items inherit that on opening
> the list. It is odd, but it makes sense, and is sometimes
> desirable.
> 
> 	I'll add an option to change this soon, once I work out
> the semantics..
738

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 22, 2001 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: weird problem - just me?

 
On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> You're right, it makes sense considering the context. But it does 
> bring up another interesting topic. The fact that the linked item 
> always has the same name/description as the corresponding item in 
> Shadow is not always desirable.

	This is a tough one; we've sort of talked about it a bit
before. One proposal is to have all parent texts (or parts
thereof) prepended to the child text when the link is created. But that
can't be done, since someone would inevitable edit that text in tyhe todo
list, and thus how would Shadow know how to import it? (ie: Change the
parent items? Gah!)

	Making them independant is certainly possible.. but how to UI
it? A pref to make all items non-synced? Or a list-level pref? Or some
item level pref? Or link level pref? (no way!). I just don't know what the
best way to do it without making things just "too much"..

	I agree.. something should be done.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
739

From: brown_m_k@h...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:29am
Subject: Feature Request for ShadowPlan Conduit

 
Hi Jeff!

A request for you regarding the conduit.  Chapura's Pocket Mirror has 
an option to not syncronize "Private" items, which I really like.  
I'm sure many other users would also like this feature in your 
product, so that personal stuff doesn't end up on the work machine, 
or company stuff on the home machine, as the case may be.  I'm sure 
many of your users HotSync on more than one machine (like myself) and 
have items we would like to keep seperated.

Thanks for making such a great product! I just registered it this 
week, and am still learning the ins and outs of it.  I have one 
additional suggestion; have you seen the Datebk4 cookbook?

http://how.to/datebk-cookbook

It might help you develop documentation and FAQ's if you were to put 
something similar on your website, as many of your users could 
contribute their ideas, tips and techniques for using ShadowPlan.  
Just a thought...

I'm looking forward to seeing the converters (and later the desktop!)

/Mike
740

From: Anthony Mylonas  <tonyelit@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 11:36am
Subject: Info on ETA of file translators

 
I would just like to know (just know i am not exercizing any pressure :)  )
a loose time table covering the progress of the  XML to ..... . file
translators and the Shadow Desktop now that we have a feature rich,
relatively bug free life saver like Shadow
Thanks for a great product Jeff
741

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:44pm
Subject: Re: Feature Request for ShadowPlan Conduit

 
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 brown_m_k@h... wrote:

> product, so that personal stuff doesn't end up on the work machine, 
> or company stuff on the home machine, as the case may be.  I'm sure 
> many of your users HotSync on more than one machine (like myself) and 
> have items we would like to keep seperated.

	Good idea :) Be sure to let me know once I add support for private
items ;)

> Thanks for making such a great product! I just registered it this 
> week, and am still learning the ins and outs of it.  I have one 
> additional suggestion; have you seen the Datebk4 cookbook?
> 
> http://how.to/datebk-cookbook

	Nope. Keen, thanks. A FAQ for users, hu? I've been planning such a
thing since the beginning, but Iv'e no time as yet to build
it. Development is enough, and keeping the Refd Guide in sync.. I'd like a
User Guide and whatnot, a better cookbook (like the screenbshot recipies
in the ref guide, but useful).

	Ah, free time is too elusive :)

> It might help you develop documentation and FAQ's if you were to put 
> something similar on your website, as many of your users could 
> contribute their ideas, tips and techniques for using ShadowPlan.  
> Just a thought...

	You mean a webpage for people to submit things to the cookbook? I
could easily do that. Or perhaps a mailing list to may suggestions
in? (like this one, with moderated content)

> I'm looking forward to seeing the converters (and later the desktop!)

	Still in design and buildsing; I was going to make some raw
converters, but instead are working on the base desktop application
(codename Kickaha :), which will have conversion as its first uses.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
742

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

 
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Anthony Mylonas wrote:

> I would just like to know (just know i am not exercizing any pressure :)  )
> a loose time table covering the progress of the  XML to ..... . file
> translators and the Shadow Desktop now that we have a feature rich,
> relatively bug free life saver like Shadow

	Can't give a timeline right now; I've been taking it easy for
about 10 days, while working on polishing the design of the desktop
applications (ie: How thye'll work, how to make them portable to various
platforms, etc etc). I was going to go right ball,s out for
translators.. we'll see. I think I'm going to go towards working on the
desktop app framework, but so stripped down it can onyl do file
conversion. Thats a bit more work, but is more on-the-true-path than just
creating a one-way set of converters.

	What sort of stuff do you need converted? You can already export
to DOC, and then to other things, or via memos, etc. The desktop
conversion stuff is probably a few weeks away (for alpha), and a month
away for beta. Could be weeks, if I get lots of free time. *shrug*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
743

From: tonyelit@s...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> I think I'm going to go towards working on the
> desktop app framework, but so stripped down it can onyl do file
> conversion. Thats a bit more work, but is more on-the-true-path 
than just creating a one-way set of converters.
No arument here If a basic desktop comes out i will be more than 
satisfied
 	What sort of stuff do you need converted? You can already 
export
> to DOC, and then to other things, or via memos, etc. The desktop
> conversion stuff is probably a few weeks away (for alpha), and a 
month
> away for beta. Could be weeks, if I get lots of free time. *shrug*
How can i help you find this free time? watch your kids, fix your 
garden? Seriously what i would like to see is 
a) initially word outline support ( Shadow level 1 using Heading 1 
style in word, level2 using heading2 ). But maybe perhaps this more 
the work of an advanced macro than  a file converter
b) import to Ms Project of all possible information (Tasks, supported 
dates, notes. i realize that info such as link information might not 
survive an import export information

Exporting if and when it comes should support only Ms project

Thanks for an another record breaking response
744

From: kencn@a...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:47pm
Subject: Handera 330 support

 
Jeff,

Though I may not be the first on my block to get one, the new Handera 
is the most tempting Palm-based PDA I've seen in a long time.  Hope 
you're planning on adding support for it at some point.  I noticed 
that there's already a new version of Wordsmith out that supports the 
Handera's higher resolution, rotatable screen and collapsing virtual 
graffiti area.  Makes me wonder how much development effort is 
involved in supporting these new capabilities.  I would love to see 
Shadow take advantage of those things.  Maybe you could even add the 
ability to link to its voice recordings - would be way cool.

Ken
745

From: Matthew.Blair@i...
Date: Mon Apr 23, 2001 11:40pm
Subject: Yet another feature request

 
Jeff,

I know that you have dismissed supporting dependencies due to the 
desire to avoid "visual spaghetti" :-)  However, I wondered if you 
would be able to build a slightly less ambitious form of dependencies 
in.  Actually, not so much "able to build", as I am sure you are, but 
more like "willing to build" :-)

Specifically - I think it would be kind of handy if one could set a 
start date for a list item as "after other item is completed", and 
the target date for that same item as "N days after start".  Then, 
when one checked off an item which had a dependency, the dependent 
item's start and target date would be updated automagically.

I wouldn't want any lines or arrows indicating dependencies, but a 
simple column (much like the ToDo link column) would be sufficient to 
indicate a dependent item.  Or maybe even to preface the item entry 
with a special character.

I don't ask for much :-)

Thanks, and I'm looking forward to working with 1.5.4!

Matthew
746

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 0:51am
Subject: Re: Handera 330 support

 
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> Though I may not be the first on my block to get one, the new Handera 
> is the most tempting Palm-based PDA I've seen in a long time.  Hope 
> you're planning on adding support for it at some point.  I noticed 

	Damng straight.

	I only wish Handspring made a Prism in 320x200. I'd kill for
something like that :) I can't give up colour at this point.

> that there's already a new version of Wordsmith out that supports the 
> Handera's higher resolution, rotatable screen and collapsing virtual 
> graffiti area.  Makes me wonder how much development effort is 
> involved in supporting these new capabilities.  I would love to see 
> Shadow take advantage of those things.  Maybe you could even add the 
> ability to link to its voice recordings - would be way cool.

	Not sure about the collapsing grafitti -- does it always pop out
on the bottom, or can it pop up top, to avoid covering an area of the
screen you're using? Certainly I expect to support the higher resolution,
in terms of giving you more stuff onscreen. I'll have to have font support
too, then, so you can increase font size instead of getting more space, if
you want it.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
747

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 0:56am
Subject: Re: Yet another feature request

 
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 Matthew.Blair@i... wrote:

> I know that you have dismissed supporting dependencies due to the 
> desire to avoid "visual spaghetti" :-)  However, I wondered if you 
> would be able to build a slightly less ambitious form of dependencies 

	Well, not dismissed.. I prefer to say "put off" ;) I may add the
indentation lines or whatever they're called.. some Progect users fixed my
brain and I'll agree they do look sharp sometimes. But true dependancies
(ie: Item 10 depends on item 1, in a different subgroup even) is a long
ways off yet.

> Specifically - I think it would be kind of handy if one could set a 
> start date for a list item as "after other item is completed", and 
> the target date for that same item as "N days after start".  Then, 
> when one checked off an item which had a dependency, the dependent 
> item's start and target date would be updated automagically.

	Relative dates are way cool and in my todo list. "XX days after
parent" and such, for sure. After desktop gets useful.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
748

From: Doug Roberts  <doug@b...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:17am
Subject: RE: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

 
Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most agree?

-----Original Message-----
From: tonyelit@s... [mailto:tonyelit@s...]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:08 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Info on ETA of file translators


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> I think I'm going to go towards working on the
> desktop app framework, but so stripped down it can onyl do file
> conversion. Thats a bit more work, but is more on-the-true-path 
than just creating a one-way set of converters.
No arument here If a basic desktop comes out i will be more than 
satisfied
 	What sort of stuff do you need converted? You can already 
export
> to DOC, and then to other things, or via memos, etc. The desktop
> conversion stuff is probably a few weeks away (for alpha), and a 
month
> away for beta. Could be weeks, if I get lots of free time. *shrug*
How can i help you find this free time? watch your kids, fix your 
garden? Seriously what i would like to see is 
a) initially word outline support ( Shadow level 1 using Heading 1 
style in word, level2 using heading2 ). But maybe perhaps this more 
the work of an advanced macro than  a file converter
b) import to Ms Project of all possible information (Tasks, supported 
dates, notes. i realize that info such as link information might not 
survive an import export information

Exporting if and when it comes should support only Ms project

Thanks for an another record breaking response 



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
749

From: llee@w...
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:36am
Subject: Re: question on purging to-do items

 
> > Jeff, have you ever considered an option that says, "re-create 
links"? 
> > Too troublesome?
> 
> 	Hmm, interesting. I can't see why someone would want to do 
that,
> though. Coudl be done pretty easily, but its evil :) (ie: They're 
broken
> because you intentionally deleted the data, in which case you can 
link
> them again by hand. If they're broken due to a naughty app, or bad 
hotsync
> restore, then you dont' want Shadow to create doubles or triples of 
the
> items do you? Instead, use a better restore tool..)


Okay, point taken. :) I was just curious because I'd been tinkering 
around with POSE (the palm emulator) and Shadow -- I had some 
harrowing hotsync issues with my handheld (I know, the manual says 
"don't use your Palm's hotsync ID) but I was trying to see if I could 
modify data on the Palm emulator and then hotsync it back directly to 
the handheld.

Syncing things eventually worked but I had to jump through a few hoops 
each time and the risk (e.g. handheld would always be overwritten by 
the desktop by default) wasn't worth it.

I got the Palm Vx folding keyboard instead and I'm getting by for now. 
:)
750

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 2:49pm
Subject: RE: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

 
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Doug Roberts wrote:

> Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most agree?

	I wouldn't say most -- I'd say its av even split between project
managers and structured document users, as well as those just keeping
todos, lists, etc. But certainly MSWord and MSPRoject are way up on my
list of formats, though for Word I'll likely just use RTF. Words format is
ugly and very specific, so in generral I like to stick to more open
standards. We'll see..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
751

From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:11pm
Subject: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains, please?
(It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)

I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
involved in project-based work.
I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like the 'look
and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and could
adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to give me
a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as short and
long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could use one
humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.

In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2 levels of
nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few, linear or
hierarchical projects.

Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?

Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a closed
loop right back to the author.!!

Andy

(PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a PIIIe,
d'you think?)

* Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)
752

From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:11pm
Subject: RE: File translators

 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeff Mitchell [SMTP:support@s...]
> Sent:	Tuesday, April 24, 2001 3:50 PM
> To:	shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: Info on ETA of file translators
> 
> 	I wouldn't say most -- I'd say its an even split between project
> managers and structured document users, as well as those just keeping
> todos, lists, etc.
> 
	>>>>>>>>>Some of us are different users at different times, as I use
shadow for: documents, projects as well as shopping lists. That's the wonder
of shadow, Jeff!!!

	Andy
753

From: hisimage8@y...
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 5:40pm
Subject: Default Color

 
In Messages 420 and 428 I asked about color -- both default and one-
tap changeability -- and you asked me to mention it again in a couple 
of weeks.  So, here's the mention.  This question was in regards to 
changing the default color for an entire outline and also the ability 
to quickly change an outlines' text color depending on what 
background you may be using (as with Chrome).  

Know you're busy but wanted to make sure that this item stayed 
somewhere on the radar screen. 

Thanks
Pat
754

From: web_egroups@r...
Date: Tue Apr 24, 2001 8:11pm
Subject: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

 
> > Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most 
agree? 

> I wouldn't say most -- I'd say its av even split between project 
managers and structured document users, as well as those just keeping 
todos, lists, etc. But certainly MSWord and MSPRoject are way up on 
my list of formats, though for Word I'll likely just use RTF. Words 
format is ugly and very specific, so in generral I like to stick to 
more open standards. We'll see. . 

You don't need a Word importer to get an outline view. Just save it 
as an HTML file and open that with word. The heading will convert 
over fine and will nest correctly in the outline view. At this point 
you can also save the file as a standard Word document.

This should be the case with most word processors. Since almost every 
word processor can import basic HTML documents correctly, there 
should be no need to create custom file filters for every WP 
available.

The only problem will likely occur when adding additional 
information, such as dates, notes, links, etc. However these can be 
formatted using the XML style sheet.

Jim
755

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:14am
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, MacQueen, Andy wrote:

> (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a PIIIe,
> d'you think?)

	Quickbits might help a bit, but its main boost is in display
speeds and things, IIRC. I use AfterBurner (cause I have a Prism, and
running at 45mHz makes me giggle), which in general speeds up darned near
everything. In general, display speedups may help a bit for Shadow, but
not much (I imagine.. I've not tested). Clock speedups will help more, I'd
think, since Shadow can be pretty processor intensive with many
operations.

	Shadow should be pretty fast, except sometimes for open/close on
larger lists. I hope to address that after the desktop stuff comes out.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
756

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:21am
Subject: Re: Default Color

 
On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 hisimage8@y... wrote:

> In Messages 420 and 428 I asked about color -- both default and one-
> tap changeability -- and you asked me to mention it again in a couple 
> of weeks.  So, here's the mention.  This question was in regards to 
> changing the default color for an entire outline and also the ability 
> to quickly change an outlines' text color depending on what 
> background you may be using (as with Chrome).  

	What do you mean "depending on the background"? Automaticly
chosing a fg based on bg is a pain ;)

	So you really want list prefs for the following: bg1, fg1, bg2,
fg2 (bg1/fg1 for when its normally white, and bg2/fg2 when its normally
blue)?

> Know you're busy but wanted to make sure that this item stayed 
> somewhere on the radar screen. 

	Keep bugging me. Trying to take a bit of a break, and work on the
design of the desktop app.. theres a lot to consider when doing cross
platform, and the conduit is a killer ;) Lots to come..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
757

From: ncordle@c...
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 0:49pm
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
Well, it's certainly not elegant, but here's my solution...

I have created multiple lists in Shadow related to personal projects, 
company projects, "stuff I want to learn more about,"  the ubiquitous 
shopping list, etc.  and use Shadow Categories to organize these 
lists.  

Then, I use Shadow to manage the detail, data entry, task/project 
structure, etc. and link to DateBook or ToDo applications.

When I'm on the go, I use the built in ToDo and Datebook apps to show 
me instantly "What's next."  The key for me is taking time regularly 
(weekly) and digging into the detailed view in Shadow to make sure 
I've planned my work that moves me forward.  Then, I just need quick 
glances daily to work my plan.  Of course, Shadow always lurks in the 
background, and I can dig into the detailed lists and views anytime I 
want.  I have chosen to use Datebook and ToDo as the window into 
Shadowland! :-)

Probably not plowing any new ground there, but maybe there's an 
affirmation or nugget for you.

Neal


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "MacQueen, Andy" <AMacQueen@o...> wrote:
> Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains, 
please?
> (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
> 
> I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
> involved in project-based work.
> I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like 
the 'look
> and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
> Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and 
could
> adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
> Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to 
give me
> a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as 
short and
> long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could 
use one
> humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
> 
> In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2 
levels of
> nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few, 
linear or
> hierarchical projects.
> 
> Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
> 
> Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a 
closed
> loop right back to the author.!!
> 
> Andy
> 
> (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a 
PIIIe,
> d'you think?)
> 
> * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)
758

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 ncordle@c... wrote:

> When I'm on the go, I use the built in ToDo and Datebook apps to show 
> me instantly "What's next."  The key for me is taking time regularly 
> (weekly) and digging into the detailed view in Shadow to make sure 
> I've planned my work that moves me forward.  Then, I just need quick 

	This reminds me of an old idea; a pref that causes Shadow to
auto-link anitem to todo if various conditions come true; I forget what
they are, but things like start-date passing, etc. We ought refine this a
bit. There were some good ideas just a month or so ago, I think..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
759

From: Rick Silver  <rick@m...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
From: ncordle@c...
>I have chosen to use Datebook and ToDo as the window into
>Shadowland! :-)

Take a look at DateBk4.   It itegrates Datebook and Todo very nicely.
DateBk4 works wonderfully with Shadow as a window.

Rick


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "MacQueen, Andy" <AMacQueen@o...> wrote:
 > Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains,
please?
 > (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
 >
 > I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
 > involved in project-based work.
 > I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like
the 'look
 > and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
 > Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and
could
 > adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
 > Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to
give me
 > a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as
short and
 > long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could
use one
 > humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
 >
 > In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2
levels of
 > nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few,
linear or
 > hierarchical projects.
 >
 > Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
 >
 > Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a
closed
 > loop right back to the author.!!
 >
 > Andy
 >
 > (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a
PIIIe,
 > d'you think?)
 >
 > * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)


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_________________________________________________________________
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760

From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 3:39pm
Subject: RE: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
This sounds like a very neat idea. I wonder what % of users have Shadow as a
front end and what % use DateBk, or the native apps as windows into Shadow?

Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeff Mitchell [SMTP:support@s...]
> Sent:	Wednesday, April 25, 2001 2:23 PM
> To:	shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: How can shadow help me run my life?
> 
> 	This reminds me of an old idea; a pref that causes Shadow to
> auto-link anitem to todo if various conditions come true; I forget what
> they are, but things like start-date passing, etc. We ought refine this a
> bit. There were some good ideas just a month or so ago, I think..
> 
> 		jeff
761

From: merobbins@m...
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 3:50pm
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
Andy,

There is a lot of usefull information about personal organization on 
the web site of David Allen(time/life management guru).  The web site 
at Davidco.com has specific tips on organizing projects and tasks 
using a Palm device (suggests lists, catagories and how to use them. 
I found the tips usefull for setting up and using Shadow and the 
built in applications.  Palm use is also a frequent topic on the DA 
message board and there are a lot of Shadow and Progect users on 
there to offer help.

I got most of what I needed from the web site but his book "Getting 
Things Done" is a great guide/reference too.  I have the hard cover, 
but wish it was available as ebook.

Matt
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "MacQueen, Andy" <AMacQueen@o...> wrote:
> Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains, 
please?
> (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
> 
> I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
> involved in project-based work.
> I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like 
the 'look
> and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
> Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and 
could
> adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
> Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to 
give me
> a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as 
short and
> long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could 
use one
> humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
> 
> In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2 
levels of
> nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few, 
linear or
> hierarchical projects.
> 
> Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
> 
> Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a 
closed
> loop right back to the author.!!
> 
> Andy
> 
> (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a 
PIIIe,
> d'you think?)
> 
> * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)
762

From: Peter R Grierson  <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 26, 2001 6:38am
Subject: RE: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

 
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 "Doug Roberts" <doug@b...> wrote:


Getting Shadow into MS Word outline would be ideal -- don't most agree?

=====

I might if I could ever figure out MS Word Outline.

I have tried and so far met with the agony of defeat.

Do you have suggestions on how to approach it or a source that explains its
workings?

Peter R.
"All Accounting is creative."
763

From: L Newman  <lnewman@n...>
Date: Thu Apr 26, 2001 10:24am
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
Andy

Your situation sounds a bit like mine.  Why not stick to your categories?
I'm in a people management type of role.  Because I have always worked to a
"people life cycle" model, I've organised my folders like this:

01 Planning
02 Resourcing
03 Induction
04 Deployment
05 Training
etc

Numbering keeps them in the order I want them. I have worked it to 10
folders.  Then in each of these I have items, which I rank by priority 1
High 2 Med 3 Low with child items etc. I link to To Do for non date specific
and to the relevant date for date specific items.

Regards

Len


----- Original Message -----
From: MacQueen, Andy <AMacQueen@o...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 1:11 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] How can shadow help me run my life?


> Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users brains,
please?
> (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
>
> I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
> involved in project-based work.
> I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like the 'look
> and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g.
> Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial etc. and could
> adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise tasks. In
> Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things up, to give
me
> a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as short and
> long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could use one
> humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
>
> In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 or 2 levels of
> nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a few, linear or
> hierarchical projects.
>
> Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
>
> Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive software, a closed
> loop right back to the author.!!
>
> Andy
>
> (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists on a PIIIe,
> d'you think?)
>
> * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
764

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Thu Apr 26, 2001 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Info on ETA of file translators

 
> I might if I could ever figure out MS Word Outline.
> 
> I have tried and so far met with the agony of defeat.
> 
> Do you have suggestions on how to approach it or a source
> that explains its workings?

It's pretty straightforward, a matter of typing away and 
promoting/demoting items to different levels. After that, you can 
collapse/expand branches, choose the max. depth to be displayed, move 
items around, etc.

I use Word 2000 but I think that this feature has been pretty 
consistent over the past few versions. Also (at least in Word 2000) 
the online manual is pretty comprehensive on this topic. Just bring 
up the Office assistant and type "How do I work with outlines?" for 
some relevant topics.

Roy.
765

From: merobbins@m...
Date: Thu Apr 26, 2001 11:45pm
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
Someone pointed out that I gave an out of date web address for 
David Allen's site with tips for using a palm for project 
management.  The correct address is 
http://www.davidallenonline.com

Matt
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., merobbins@m... wrote:
> Andy,
> 
> There is a lot of usefull information about personal 
organization on 
> the web site of David Allen(time/life management guru).  The 
web site 
> at Davidco.com has specific tips on organizing projects and 
tasks 
> using a Palm device (suggests lists, catagories and how to 
use them. 
> I found the tips usefull for setting up and using Shadow and 
the 
> built in applications.  Palm use is also a frequent topic on the 
DA 
> message board and there are a lot of Shadow and Progect 
users on 
> there to offer help.
> 
> I got most of what I needed from the web site but his book 
"Getting 
> Things Done" is a great guide/reference too.  I have the hard 
cover, 
> but wish it was available as ebook.
> 
> Matt
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "MacQueen, Andy" 
<AMacQueen@o...> wrote:
> > Further to an earlier post of mine, can I pick fellow-users 
brains, 
> please?
> > (It'll make a change from adding to Jeff's wishlist!)
> > 
> > I manage a busy operational production department, rather 
than being
> > involved in project-based work.
> > I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I 
like 
> the 'look
> > and feel' of shadow so much. Under ToDo, I used categories 
for, e.g.
> > Health+Safety, Technical, Personnel, Training, Commercial 
etc. and 
> could
> > adjust due dates & priorities, to re-view and re-organise 
tasks. In
> > Shadowland*, I'm trying to decide the best way to set things 
up, to 
> give me
> > a daily task list across all lists. I have around 180 tasks, as 
> short and
> > long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I 
could 
> use one
> > humungous list, but that seems to be very slow.
> > 
> > In shadow terms, I have a large number of items, but only 1 
or 2 
> levels of
> > nesting at the most. This contrasts with those who manage a 
few, 
> linear or
> > hierarchical projects.
> > 
> > Any ideas from anyone in a parallel situation?
> > 
> > Keep up the good work - I've never met such interactive 
software, a 
> closed
> > loop right back to the author.!!
> > 
> > Andy
> > 
> > (PS Will Quickbits speed shadow up, with say 200 item lists 
on a 
> PIIIe,
> > d'you think?)
> > 
> > * Contrary indications for fans of Narnia (C S Lewis)
766

From: Manfred Ell  <manfred.ell@w...>
Date: Sat Apr 28, 2001 11:03am
Subject: Re: How can shadow help me run my life?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., merobbins@m... wrote:
> Someone pointed out that I gave an out of date web address for 
> David Allen's site with tips for using a palm for project 
> management.  The correct address is 
> http://www.davidallenonline.com
> 

Use: http://www.davidallenonline.com/gtt_template.php3

Manfred
767

From: amagner@s...
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2001 8:23pm
Subject: Sources for Shadow template files?

 
Hi All,

Been lurking a while...

Just started using ShadowPlan. Does anyone know of a site where one 
could find template files for ShadowPlan to get a person started? I 
mean, yeah, I make up one but why reinvent the wheel?

What I'm talking about is some empty outlines that I could use to 
then duplicate and edit for myself. Mainly interested in project-type 
outlines (SDLC).

Even if you have a reference site where I could get the format and 
convert it to Shadow would be a big help.

Thanks.

Tony Magner
768

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2001 8:40pm
Subject: Re: Sources for Shadow template files?

 
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 amagner@s... wrote:

> Just started using ShadowPlan. Does anyone know of a site where one 
> could find template files for ShadowPlan to get a person started? I 
> mean, yeah, I make up one but why reinvent the wheel?

	I don't know if there is a site yet; originally I intended for
people to submit cool files to me, so that I could put them on the main
website. But few people took me up on this (none, actually ;), due to the
personal nature of lists. Still, since you can duplicate lists, and
eventually I'll be adding true templates, it could pick up..

> What I'm talking about is some empty outlines that I could use to 
> then duplicate and edit for myself. Mainly interested in project-type 
> outlines (SDLC).
> 
> Even if you have a reference site where I could get the format and 
> convert it to Shadow would be a big help.

	Ah, good idea! I hope someone gets back to you. If you find out
anything interesting, let us know :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
769

From: robermax@u...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 2:18am
Subject: How to Return From Links

 
When I go from a Shadow outline to another linked app (either another 
Shadow outline or ToDo or ActionNames calender item etc) there seems 
to be no easy way to return to the original outline. A "Back" button 
would be nice. Is there any way to accomplish this in Shadow "as is"?
Thank you
Bob
770

From: rose@t...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 10:10am
Subject: SML spec link

 
Hi,

I'ld like to take a look at the Shadow XML spec, but the links from the developers Web page are broken. Are they posted somewhere else?

Thanks

Michael

p.s. I really like what I see so far - nice work.
771

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 11:53am
Subject: Re: How to Return From Links

 
On Thu, 3 May 2001 robermax@u... wrote:

> When I go from a Shadow outline to another linked app (either another 
> Shadow outline or ToDo or ActionNames calender item etc) there seems 
> to be no easy way to return to the original outline. A "Back" button 
> would be nice. Is there any way to accomplish this in Shadow "as is"?

	No; once you've gone through a link to another application, you've
left Shadow, and I can't do much about what the other apps can do. You can
use a Hack, say something like McPhling which gives you a grafitti
shortcut in any app that lets you jump back to the previous-app. Thus,
after a goto, you coudl jump back to Shadow. There are some other tricks
you can do, but so far I've not done anything tricky yet.

	I will be adding some tricks in a later version, though, to make
it easie.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
772

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 0:08pm
Subject: Re: SML spec link

 
On Thu, 3 May 2001 rose@t... wrote:

> I'ld like to take a look at the Shadow XML spec, but the links from
> the developers Web page are broken. Are they posted somewhere else?

	Actually, I've not had time to formally finish the spec; as a lame
way to get something, you can use the windows edition and do a hotsync,
and thus get XML files of your own lists onto your desktop app, and thus
see how they're formatted. ITs a very simple and basic format (thoguh
changing a little from the 1.0c conduit version in the current releases).

> p.s. I really like what I see so far - nice work.

	Thanks :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
773

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 8:10pm
Subject: Re: How to Return From Links

 
Do you plan to implement something similar to Arranger? Basically, 
once a link is followed from within Arranger to a native app, a tap 
on the Apps button got you back to where you left off inside 
Arranger. That's the one feature that I miss from that app now that 
I've switched to Shadow.

Greg

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 May 2001 robermax@u... wrote:
> 
> > When I go from a Shadow outline to another linked app (either 
another 
> > Shadow outline or ToDo or ActionNames calender item etc) there 
seems 
> > to be no easy way to return to the original outline. A "Back" 
button 
> > would be nice. Is there any way to accomplish this in Shadow "as 
is"?
> 
> 	No; once you've gone through a link to another application, 
you've
> left Shadow, and I can't do much about what the other apps can do. 
You can
> use a Hack, say something like McPhling which gives you a grafitti
> shortcut in any app that lets you jump back to the previous-app. 
Thus,
> after a goto, you coudl jump back to Shadow. There are some other 
tricks
> you can do, but so far I've not done anything tricky yet.
> 
> 	I will be adding some tricks in a later version, though, to 
make
> it easie.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
774

From: pradley@r...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 8:17pm
Subject: Re: How to Return From Links

 
If you have McPhling or SwitchHack you can do exactly that with a 
keystroke. What I would like is a way to mark the ToDo in Datebk4 or 
ActionNames so that I could go from it to Shadow: to do that now, I 
have to start out in Shadow. Of course such a feature, as Jeff has 
pointed out, depends on the developers of those programs, and not on 
him. Have you tried Linker? I have not, but my understanding is that 
it can provide such linking (albeit laboriously, as all the linking 
must be done manually). PDR--- In shadow-discuss@y..., glacefield@v... 
wrote:
> Do you plan to implement something similar to Arranger? Basically, 
> once a link is followed from within Arranger to a native app, a tap 
> on the Apps button got you back to where you left off inside 
> Arranger. That's the one feature that I miss from that app now that 
> I've switched to Shadow.
> 
> Greg
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 May 2001 robermax@u... wrote:
> > 
> > > When I go from a Shadow outline to another linked app (either 
> another 
> > > Shadow outline or ToDo or ActionNames calender item etc) there 
> seems 
> > > to be no easy way to return to the original outline. A "Back" 
> button 
> > > would be nice. Is there any way to accomplish this in Shadow "as 
> is"?
> > 
> > 	No; once you've gone through a link to another application, 
> you've
> > left Shadow, and I can't do much about what the other apps can do. 
> You can
> > use a Hack, say something like McPhling which gives you a grafitti
> > shortcut in any app that lets you jump back to the previous-app. 
> Thus,
> > after a goto, you coudl jump back to Shadow. There are some other 
> tricks
> > you can do, but so far I've not done anything tricky yet.
> > 
> > 	I will be adding some tricks in a later version, though, to 
> make
> > it easie.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
775

From: budhdp@t...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 8:24pm
Subject: Re: How to Return From Links

 
I have the ToDo button mapped to Shadow. Gets me back to Shadow 
without any hacks, etc.
776

From: budhdp@t...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 8:28pm
Subject: Include Year in Target Date

 
Would be helpful to be able to see the year in the target date.
Some of my lists include yearly reminders. I do have the list sorted 
by Target Date as primary.
777

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 9:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: How to Return From Links

 
On Thu, 3 May 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> Do you plan to implement something similar to Arranger? Basically, 
> once a link is followed from within Arranger to a native app, a tap 
> on the Apps button got you back to where you left off inside 
> Arranger. That's the one feature that I miss from that app now that 
> I've switched to Shadow.

	I will be implementing this.

		jeff

> 
> Greg
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Thu, 3 May 2001 robermax@u... wrote:
> > 
> > > When I go from a Shadow outline to another linked app (either 
> another 
> > > Shadow outline or ToDo or ActionNames calender item etc) there 
> seems 
> > > to be no easy way to return to the original outline. A "Back" 
> button 
> > > would be nice. Is there any way to accomplish this in Shadow "as 
> is"?
> > 
> > 	No; once you've gone through a link to another application, 
> you've
> > left Shadow, and I can't do much about what the other apps can do. 
> You can
> > use a Hack, say something like McPhling which gives you a grafitti
> > shortcut in any app that lets you jump back to the previous-app. 
> Thus,
> > after a goto, you coudl jump back to Shadow. There are some other 
> tricks
> > you can do, but so far I've not done anything tricky yet.
> > 
> > 	I will be adding some tricks in a later version, though, to 
> make
> > it easie.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
778

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 9:13pm
Subject: Re: Include Year in Target Date

 
On Thu, 3 May 2001 budhdp@t... wrote:

> Would be helpful to be able to see the year in the target date.
> Some of my lists include yearly reminders. I do have the list sorted 
> by Target Date as primary.

	I thought about it, but I figured most people wouldn't worry about
year until the end of a year. Displaying year would make the columkn too
wide. Perhaps I should add Custom options for "targfet as month/day" (like
now), and also "target as year/month/day" or something)(. *shrug*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
779

From: kencn@a...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 10:32pm
Subject: Copy/Paste Links

 
Jeff,

In some lists, I find myself linking a number of items to the same 
record.  For instance, I might enter all the tasks for a project 
first and then go back to 'assign' the tasks to people using the 
contact linking and there may only be 2 or 3 individuals involved int 
the project.

It might be faster if there was a copy/paste for links.  I 
envision items on the little arrow menu on the right (Link Manager, 
Expand Links, etc.) for Copy Link and Paste Link.  You assign links
to an list item, select the Copy Link function on the menu for that
item, then click the arrow menu for any other items you want to have 
the same links and select Paste Link. Faster than going through the 
Link Manager repeatedly.  I would expect all the pasted links to be 
just static copies; i.e. not links to links.  Make sense?

Ken
780

From: budhdp@t...
Date: Thu May 3, 2001 11:04pm
Subject: Re: Include Year in Target Date

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 May 2001 budhdp@t... wrote:
> 
> > Would be helpful to be able to see the year in the target date.
> > Some of my lists include yearly reminders. I do have the list 
sorted 
> > by Target Date as primary.
> 
> 	I thought about it, but I figured most people wouldn't worry 
about
> year until the end of a year. Displaying year would make the 
columkn too
> wide. Perhaps I should add Custom options for "targfet as 
month/day" (like
> now), and also "target as year/month/day" or something)(. *shrug*
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

Custom option would be helpful, maybe option to display year as two 
digits, Y2K is in the past.
781

From: robermax@u...
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 2:47am
Subject: Re: How to Return From Links

 
Jeff can you return from another Shadow outline that you have linked 
to?
Bob

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 May 2001 robermax@u... wrote:
> 
> > When I go from a Shadow outline to another linked app (either 
another 
> > Shadow outline or ToDo or ActionNames calender item etc) there 
seems 
> > to be no easy way to return to the original outline. A "Back" 
button 
> > would be nice. Is there any way to accomplish this in Shadow "as 
is"?
> 
> 	No; once you've gone through a link to another application, 
you've
> left Shadow, and I can't do much about what the other apps can do. 
You can
> use a Hack, say something like McPhling which gives you a grafitti
> shortcut in any app that lets you jump back to the previous-app. 
Thus,
> after a goto, you coudl jump back to Shadow. There are some other 
tricks
> you can do, but so far I've not done anything tricky yet.
> 
> 	I will be adding some tricks in a later version, though, to 
make
> it easie.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
782

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 0:27pm
Subject: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
On Thu, 3 May 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> It might be faster if there was a copy/paste for links.  I 
> envision items on the little arrow menu on the right (Link Manager, 
> Expand Links, etc.) for Copy Link and Paste Link.  You assign links
> to an list item, select the Copy Link function on the menu for that
> item, then click the arrow menu for any other items you want to have 
> the same links and select Paste Link. Faster than going through the 
> Link Manager repeatedly.  I would expect all the pasted links to be 
> just static copies; i.e. not links to links.  Make sense?

	Do you think most people would like to copy all links? ie: That
most tasks have one link assigned, or when multiple assignments they want
to copy all of them?

	I could do it, but I', not sure it'd get used very often. Consider
that I assume you'd not want to copy/duplicate todo/datebook links, and
what about other link types, like DOC (coming), Memos, etc?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
783

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 0:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: How to Return From Links

 
On Fri, 4 May 2001 robermax@u... wrote:

> Jeff can you return from another Shadow outline that you have linked 
> to?

	I will at some point add a "history" popup, so you can see the
last 5 lists you've visited or something. Then you can pop it up, and jump
to any of those last few.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
784

From: Steffen.Duerrwang@K...
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 0:49pm
Subject: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
copy/paste links is a good idea ... would one-more-step help?

1. You assign links to an list item
2. select the Copy Link function on the menu for that item
3. window pops up with a list of all assigned links and you check 
links you want to copy
4. then click the arrow menu for any other items and select Paste 
Link. 

would this be faster than the link-manager?!

ciao
steffen

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 May 2001 kencn@a... wrote:
> 
> > It might be faster if there was a copy/paste for links.  I 
> > envision items on the little arrow menu on the right (Link 
Manager, 
> > Expand Links, etc.) for Copy Link and Paste Link.  You assign 
links
> > to an list item, select the Copy Link function on the menu for 
that
> > item, then click the arrow menu for any other items you want to 
have 
> > the same links and select Paste Link. Faster than going through 
the 
> > Link Manager repeatedly.  I would expect all the pasted links to 
be 
> > just static copies; i.e. not links to links.  Make sense?
> 
> 	Do you think most people would like to copy all links? ie: 
That
> most tasks have one link assigned, or when multiple assignments 
they want
> to copy all of them?
> 
> 	I could do it, but I', not sure it'd get used very often. 
Consider
> that I assume you'd not want to copy/duplicate todo/datebook links, 
and
> what about other link types, like DOC (coming), Memos, etc?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
785

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 0:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
On Fri, 4 May 2001 Steffen.Duerrwang@K... wrote:

> copy/paste links is a good idea ... would one-more-step help?
> 
> 1. You assign links to an list item
> 2. select the Copy Link function on the menu for that item
> 3. window pops up with a list of all assigned links and you check 
> links you want to copy
> 4. then click the arrow menu for any other items and select Paste 
> Link. 
> 
> would this be faster than the link-manager?!

	I am not sure I like the idea; rather, the idea is a good one --
that links need to be copyable. But I'm not sure I wish to add much to the
UI, that is more or less redundant sounding (ie: Go to the link arrow, and
do some copying with a new UI. Well, we have the link manager UI
already..)

	Perhaps, *in* the link manager there shoudl be a
"copy" button. Tap on an existing link, and hit copy, and then you can go
to the link manager for another item and hit Paste. One link at a time,
though.

	*hmm*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
786

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 2:08pm
Subject: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
> 	Perhaps, *in* the link manager there shoudl be a "copy"
> button. Tap on an existing link, and hit copy, and then you
> can go to the link manager for another item and hit Paste. One
> link at a time, though.

Frankly, I don't think I would ever use it that way. Recreating the 
link seems faster to me than having to go through two link manager 
dialogs for each link you'd want to copy. I really liked Steffen's 
suggestion better.

Roy.

P.S.: now that we're on the UI subject, I've read a review on 
PalmGear saying that it's impossible to drag an item to the top of 
the list. I've encountered this limitation myself several times and 
always found a way around it, but it is somewhat counterintuitive. Is 
the whole drag & drop mechanism still on your to do list?

Roy.
787

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 3:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
On Fri, 4 May 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> > 	Perhaps, *in* the link manager there shoudl be a "copy"
> > button. Tap on an existing link, and hit copy, and then you
> > can go to the link manager for another item and hit Paste. One
> > link at a time, though.
> 
> Frankly, I don't think I would ever use it that way. Recreating the 
> link seems faster to me than having to go through two link manager 
> dialogs for each link you'd want to copy. I really liked Steffen's 
> suggestion better.

	If a lot of people want it, I'll work on it..

> P.S.: now that we're on the UI subject, I've read a review on 
> PalmGear saying that it's impossible to drag an item to the top of 
> the list. I've encountered this limitation myself several times and 
> always found a way around it, but it is somewhat counterintuitive. Is 
> the whole drag & drop mechanism still on your to do list?

	Yes and no.

	The drop mechanism is fine, I think. The onyl thing needing fixing
is the drop indicators while dragging -- peopel want a horizontal bar
indicating where it will drop, in a big obvious way.

	The "can't move to top of list" is not accurate; a drop can either
push items down and out of the way, or attach to the bottom of an
item.. its either on top, or below, the item. Some apps do the drop to
psuh the target item down and below.. so you can drop on the top of the
list. But then you cannot drop on the bottom of the list! Its one way or
the other.

	How do you do it?

	Drag the top item down!

	(ie: Drag the item to the top and it becomes the second item. Then
drag the top item down one)

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
788

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Fri May 4, 2001 11:05pm
Subject: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
> 	The drop mechanism is fine, I think. The onyl thing
> needing fixing is the drop indicators while dragging -- peopel
> want a horizontal bar indicating where it will drop, in a big
> obvious way.
> 
> 	The "can't move to top of list" is not accurate; a drop
> can either push items down and out of the way, or attach to the
> bottom of an item.. its either on top, or below, the item. Some
> apps do the drop to psuh the target item down and below.. so you
> can drop on the top of the list. But then you cannot drop on the
> bottom of the list! Its one way or the other.

Not really; ListMaker could do both. I just went ahead and 
reinstalled it to make sure of that. Even though I love Shadow in 
virtually every respect and wouldn't want to go back, I still feel 
that ListMaker's drag & drop mechanism is more intuitive. And it does 
have this drop indicator you mentioned above. Also, it allows me to 
change both the nesting depth and the vertical position in one 
action. So I can go from:

Item 1
   Item 2
      Item 3
         Item 4

to:

Item 1
   Item 2
   Item 4
      Item 3

in one drag & drop move. In Shadow this would take two separate 
actions. I don't know if you ever tried ListMaker. If not, maybe you 
should to see what I mean.

> 	How do you do it?
> 
> 	Drag the top item down!
> 
> 	(ie: Drag the item to the top and it becomes the second
> item. Then drag the top item down one)

I know it's possible (that's the workaround I mentioned), I just said 
that it is counterintuitive. :) This is also something that can be 
accomplished with one single action in ListMaker. I find that more 
convenient because it allows me to drag an item *anywhere* I want it 
to go. With Shadow, this is not possible.

One more thing: when I delete a Shadow file, it asks me if I want all 
links to that file removed. It would seem to me that "yes" is the 
only logical answer to that question as no one would want broken 
links hanging around. In other words, isn't this a redundant question?

On the other hand, I would like to have the option to delete all 
ToDo/DateBook links *from* a file that I'm about to delete. Suppose I 
have a Shadow file with lots of links to todo's and appointments 
defining one of my projects. Now the project gets cancelled and I 
delete the Shadow file. But then I still have to manually delete all 
todo's and appointments created by Shadow through linking. I'd like 
to have an option to remove those with the Shadow file. One could 
argue that only the uncompleted todo's and future appointments should 
be removed.

Roy.
789

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 0:02am
Subject: Re: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
On Fri, 4 May 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> reinstalled it to make sure of that. Even though I love Shadow in 
> virtually every respect and wouldn't want to go back, I still feel 

	I guess if there is a horizontal line, you could have it show up
at the very top of thelist, and with that indicator, allow the user to
drop to the top. Okay, that makes sense.

> that ListMaker's drag & drop mechanism is more intuitive. And it does 
> have this drop indicator you mentioned above. Also, it allows me to 
> change both the nesting depth and the vertical position in one 
> action. So I can go from:

	You can of course change the level and position with a drag and
drop in shadow! ie: Drag left to promote, right to demote. You just need
to know where to drop it. I know the drop targetting needs work -- the
drop indicator is very accurate and very good, but a horizontal line works
better in the end I think.

> accomplished with one single action in ListMaker. I find that more 
> convenient because it allows me to drag an item *anywhere* I want it 
> to go. With Shadow, this is not possible.

	Anywhere except the top ;)

	I guess I can make the current system drop at the top, too -- if
the pen is off the top of the list (normally causing a scroll), but you're
at the top, and let go, to drop. Right now, it cancels, since your'e out
of the widget.

> One more thing: when I delete a Shadow file, it asks me if I want all 
> links to that file removed. It would seem to me that "yes" is the 
> only logical answer to that question as no one would want broken 
> links hanging around. In other words, isn't this a redundant question?

	No; I for instance sometimes leave the links, for the purpose that
you may wish to remember that they were there. Also, it can be time
consuming if you have a lot of lists, especially a lot of large ones. As
such, maybe you don't have time for Shadow to go through and clean up all
the links right now.

> On the other hand, I would like to have the option to delete all 
> ToDo/DateBook links *from* a file that I'm about to delete. Suppose I 
> have a Shadow file with lots of links to todo's and appointments 
> defining one of my projects. Now the project gets cancelled and I 
> delete the Shadow file. But then I still have to manually delete all 
> todo's and appointments created by Shadow through linking. I'd like 
> to have an option to remove those with the Shadow file. One could 
> argue that only the uncompleted todo's and future appointments should 
> be removed.

	Thats a good point. I'll have to think about that! I can see how
annoying that woudl be :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
790

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 2:51am
Subject: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
> 	You can of course change the level and position with a
> drag and drop in shadow! ie: Drag left to promote, right to
> demote. You just need to know where to drop it.

I just tried to recreate the example from my previous post but was 
unable to do so. So far I've been able to do everything in Shadow 
what I could also do in ListMaker, except moving an item to the top 
of the list. I'll let you know should I still manage to reproduce my 
example.

> I know the drop targetting needs work -- the drop indicator is
> very accurate and very good, but a horizontal line works
> better in the end I think.

In ListMaker, there are several levels of horizontal movement, 
corresponding to the appropriate nesting depth. So if I have an item 
at level 4, it goes to levels 3, 2 and 1 as I gradually move it 
further to the left. Shadow only has two levels, regardless of the 
current nesting depth: sibling and child.

> > accomplished with one single action in ListMaker. I find that
> > more convenient because it allows me to drag an item
> > *anywhere* I want it to go. With Shadow, this is not possible.
> 
> 	Anywhere except the top ;)

Right now I can't contradict that anymore. Damn, I hate it when that 
happens. ;)

> 	I guess I can make the current system drop at the top,
> too -- if the pen is off the top of the list (normally causing
> a scroll), but you're at the top, and let go, to drop. Right
> now, it cancels, since your'e out of the widget.

For me, that would already be an improvement.

> 	No; I for instance sometimes leave the links, for the
> purpose that you may wish to remember that they were there.
> Also, it can be time consuming if you have a lot of lists,
> especially a lot of large ones. As such, maybe you don't have
> time for Shadow to go through and clean up all the links right
> now.

Fair enough. I guess my lists aren't big enough to have a serious 
influence on link deletion performance. :)

> > todo's and appointments created by Shadow through linking. I'd
> > like to have an option to remove those with the Shadow file.
> > One could argue that only the uncompleted todo's and future
> > appointments should be removed.
> 
> 	Thats a good point. I'll have to think about that! I can
> see how annoying that woudl be :)

You don't want to know how many projects get cancelled at my 
company. :)

Roy.
791

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 3:01am
Subject: Re: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
On Sat, 5 May 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> In ListMaker, there are several levels of horizontal movement, 
> corresponding to the appropriate nesting depth. So if I have an item 
> at level 4, it goes to levels 3, 2 and 1 as I gradually move it 
> further to the left. Shadow only has two levels, regardless of the 
> current nesting depth: sibling and child.

	Sibling or child of the target item, which is the only way it
makes sense to me .. ie: if you drag left, from level 4, to level 2, what
happens when you lift up the pen? Does it fly down offscreen to where it
can be a level 2 (or upscreen), or what?

	ie:

I
	A
		B
			C
			D
			E
			F

	IF you drag D two levels over, to become a sibling of A, what
happens? It can't just move over, since that'd make E and F into the wrong
level?

	I didn't want things flying offscreen, so hence you can make
sib/child of the target item. Maybe I'm a freak, but it makes sense to me
:)

> > 	I guess I can make the current system drop at the top,
> > too -- if the pen is off the top of the list (normally causing
> > a scroll), but you're at the top, and let go, to drop. Right
> > now, it cancels, since your'e out of the widget.
> 
> For me, that would already be an improvement.

	Hmm, okay, anyone else following this thread?

> > > One could argue that only the uncompleted todo's and future
> > > appointments should be removed.
> > 
> > 	Thats a good point. I'll have to think about that! I can
> > see how annoying that woudl be :)
> 
> You don't want to know how many projects get cancelled at my 
> company. :)

	ROFL :) I added it to my list. Thats a tougher one to implement,
but makes some seriously good sense. ie: After some logn list is finally
done, sure, it makes sense to eliminate it. And to clean up the palm
databases, reduce their size, etc, just makes sense. Thats a really good
idea.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
792

From: Manfred Ell  <manfred.ell@w...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 8:46am
Subject: preferred apps

 
Jeff,

In the Preferences I can define my preferred apps for todo and
datebook. But I also use a substitution addressbook app and there is
no option to set this, so the links link to the built-in addressbook
app.

Can you fix this in the next release?

Regards

-- 
Manfred

___________________________________________________________________________
[ TheBat 1.52 (FE1905D5), Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 ]

....
Cannot open file "C:\Documents and Settings\manfred\My
Documents\TheBat!\cookies.txt"
793

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 0:31pm
Subject: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
> 	Sibling or child of the target item, which is the only
> way it makes sense to me .. ie: if you drag left, from level
> 4, to level 2, what happens when you lift up the pen? Does it
> fly down offscreen to where it can be a level 2 (or upscreen),
> or what?
> 
> 	ie:
> 
> I
> 	A
> 		B
> 			C
> 			D
> 			E
> 			F
> 
> 	IF you drag D two levels over, to become a sibling of A,
> what happens? It can't just move over, since that'd make E and
> F into the wrong level?

Correct, ListMaker does not allow you to promote D that way. In this 
case, you'd have to do it similarly to Shadow: drag D towards I to 
make it its child. The only difference is that you don't drag it on 
top of I, but between I and A instead. This actually also makes a bit 
more sense to me because that's exactly where it's going to end up.

However: ListMaker allows me to drag F back to levels A and I whereas 
Shadow does not. Which is somewhat odd because the Promote option 
from the menu will allow me to do just that. So why isn't it 
supported through drag & drop?

Trying to recreate your example did bring up an interesting issue 
though. If I have:

A
   B
C

How do I get C at the top of the list? Your previous suggestion of 
dragging it below A and then moving A down doesn't work: if I make it 
a sibling of A it stays at the same spot (at the bottom of the list) 
and if I make it a child of A, I cannot drag A down anymore since 
that gives me a "You cannot drop this note here" error. Am I on to 
something here? :)

> 	I didn't want things flying offscreen, so hence you can
> make sib/child of the target item. Maybe I'm a freak, but it
> makes sense to me :)

If I have

A
   B
   C
   D
   E
   F
   etc.

and I use the promote option to bring back B by one level, it also 
flies off the screen (to the end of the list) when the list is long 
enough.

> 	Hmm, okay, anyone else following this thread?

[praying] :)

> > You don't want to know how many projects get cancelled at my 
> > company. :)
> 
> 	ROFL :) I added it to my list. Thats a tougher one to
> implement, but makes some seriously good sense. ie: After some
> logn list is finally done, sure, it makes sense to eliminate it.
> And to clean up the palm databases, reduce their size, etc,
> just makes sense. Thats a really good idea.

You might just want to provide some options as to what is to be 
purged exactly. For appointments, all & future make sense to me. For 
todos one could choose between all, completed & future.

Roy.
794

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 0:36pm
Subject: Re: preferred apps

 
While you're at it <smile>, could you also do this for the Memo app? 
I'm using pedit as a MemoPad replacement and it would be great if I 
can use it in conjunction with Shadow.

Roy.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Manfred Ell <manfred.ell@w...> wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> In the Preferences I can define my preferred apps for todo and
> datebook. But I also use a substitution addressbook app and there is
> no option to set this, so the links link to the built-in addressbook
> app.
> 
> Can you fix this in the next release?
> 
> Regards
> 
> -- 
> Manfred
> 
> 
______________________________________________________________________
_____
> [ TheBat 1.52 (FE1905D5), Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 
1.1 ]
> 
> ....
> Cannot open file "C:\Documents and Settings\manfred\My
> Documents\TheBat!\cookies.txt"
795

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 2:56pm
Subject: Re: preferred apps

 
On Sat, 5 May 2001, Manfred Ell wrote:

> In the Preferences I can define my preferred apps for todo and
> datebook. But I also use a substitution addressbook app and there is
> no option to set this, so the links link to the built-in addressbook
> app.

	"Set Program" button on the Link Manager's "Add" section. Go to
the LM, hit Add, and while "Address" type is selected, hit the SetProgram
button. Its not in a dialog, since the LM can really handle links to
*anything*, and since there could be any number of data types, the type ->
program setting has to be done in the link manager.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
796

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 6:54pm
Subject: Re: preferred apps

 
> 	"Set Program" button on the Link Manager's "Add" section.
> Go to the LM, hit Add, and while "Address" type is selected, hit
> the SetProgram button. Its not in a dialog, since the LM can
> really handle links to *anything*, and since there could be any
> number of data types, the type -> program setting has to be done
> in the link manager.

Blast... I could have figured this one out by myself. I'm ashamed!

Roy.
797

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 10:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
On Sat, 5 May 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> case, you'd have to do it similarly to Shadow: drag D towards I to 
> make it its child. The only difference is that you don't drag it on 
> top of I, but between I and A instead. This actually also makes a bit 
> more sense to me because that's exactly where it's going to end up.

	Sure. I'll be adding something like this in awhile, I think.

> Trying to recreate your example did bring up an interesting issue 
> though. If I have:
> 
> A
>    B
> C
> 
> How do I get C at the top of the list? Your previous suggestion of 
> dragging it below A and then moving A down doesn't work: if I make it 
> a sibling of A it stays at the same spot (at the bottom of the list) 
> and if I make it a child of A, I cannot drag A down anymore since 
> that gives me a "You cannot drop this note here" error. Am I on to 
> something here? :)

	In this case, C is already below A ;) Just drag A to be a sibling
of C.

> You might just want to provide some options as to what is to be 
> purged exactly. For appointments, all & future make sense to me. For 
> todos one could choose between all, completed & future.

	Maybe another alert. "Remove Links?", yes/no, and then "Remove
linked todo/datebook entries?", or maybe a pref.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
798

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 10:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: preferred apps

 
On Sat, 5 May 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> While you're at it <smile>, could you also do this for the Memo app? 
> I'm using pedit as a MemoPad replacement and it would be great if I 
> can use it in conjunction with Shadow.

	If you link to memos, you can set the application to jump
to.. ie: Anythign the link manager can link to, you can set an app for.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
799

From: Manfred Ell  <manfred.ell@w...>
Date: Sat May 5, 2001 11:39pm
Subject: Re: preferred apps

 
On 05-05-2001 at 10:56:55 GMT -0400 (EDT) (which was 15:56 where I live)
Jeff Mitchell wrote regarding the subject of " preferred apps"
Using: Unknown

Hello Jeff,

>         "Set Program" button on the Link Manager's "Add" section. Go to
> the LM, hit Add, and while "Address" type is selected, hit the SetProgram
> button. Its not in a dialog, since the LM can really handle links to
> *anything*, and since there could be any number of data types, the type ->
> program setting has to be done in the link manager.


Thanks. Suppose I was looking at the wrong place!

Regards

-- 
Manfred
___________________________________________________________________________
[ TheBat 1.52c (FE1905D5), Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1 ]
800

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sun May 6, 2001 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Copy/Paste Links

 
> 	In this case, C is already below A ;) Just drag A to be
> a sibling of C.

Ummm... yes... why did it have to be so simple? :)

But seriously, I've been experimenting with this example for quite 
some time and I just couldn't figure out how to do it. To me this is 
an indication that the mechanism behind this is not quite 
intuitive... yet. :) Anyway, I'll be looking forward to further 
changes/improvements and keep struggling until then. :)

> > You might just want to provide some options as to what is to be 
> > purged exactly. For appointments, all & future make sense to me.
> > For todos one could choose between all, completed & future.
> 
> 	Maybe another alert. "Remove Links?", yes/no, and then
> "Remove linked todo/datebook entries?", or maybe a pref.

Both an alert and a pref are okay, as long as there is a choice 
between all/future/completed like I mentioned above because I think 
that different users may want to delete different things. One might 
want to clean up everything related to this project, or just the 
things that haven't been done yet (future or not completed) to keep a 
record of what has already been accomplished before the project was 
cancelled.

I just noticed that I made a typo in my previous message. The options 
for deleting todo's should be all, *not* completed & future.

Roy.
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