From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 3:47pm
Subject: Re: Re: linking [was: So Close Yet...]

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, mcmug1997 wrote:

> > window, that puts a Shadow origin string into the clipbuffer, so 
> > what you could paste it into other applications. This would only 
> > be useful for
> > existing items (not new ones this session).
> 
> Does the same limitation apply to shadow link? ie, it can't create a 
> back link to new items?

	Let me clarify: when you set the "append origin" then origin info
will be added. When an item is brand new, it *may* get a "(0)" in its
origin, which is not enough for ShadowLinkHack to get back to the right
place.. however, it can get back to the right list. Once you've
opened/closed that list, however, the origin will be upated to the correct
info to get you back to that item. The limitation is simply that brand new
items are not yet "filed" per se, so do not have full origin info. Origin
info is generated before an item is fully written to storage, since
otherwise it'd be slow.. to file/write it out, read it back in and add
origin, and write it out again. Instead we just write it out with origin
info as available.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 3:56pm
Subject: RE: Kicking it up a notch..

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Great question Jeff!!  I like the idea of one file, but I can't do it
> because I'm so addicted to having each file put to dos in the right
> category in AN-- it's just more automatic that way.

	AN auto-colouring of todos you mean, based on category? :)

> File System (list of every paper file I have)
> 	Personal
> 	Work

	File system? You have a list to track what lists you have outside
the PDA? Neat :)

> Home
> 	Things I have to do, get repaired, etc.

	Do yo use c-filters and tags to break up views at home, or a
straight list?

> Organization
> 	Top level for home and office
> 		Secondary items for rooms in the house, parts of my
> office, etc.
> 	This is a temp file (going through & doing major cleaning out)

	Temp as in your clearing file, or temp as in you don't intend to
have it in the future? I have avoided dumping into one big file, then
"send to"ing to better files. But I find I have a few files full of the
wrong junk now, as opposed to one file with "all wrong" junk, ready to be
filed :/

> Shopping
> 	Organized by store
> 		Then by specific items

	Damn, you're way better organized than me :)

> Someday/Maybe
> 	Web Sites to Visit
> 	Learning
> 	Restaurants to Try
> 	Books to Read

	I have a huge file for things to "get" (mp3s, CDs, books, courses
to learn, restaurants, etc). In GtD I guess its the "someday" file, but I
like to keep it as the "when near a junk store, look here" clearing house.
I find its one of my larger lists.. always something I'd like to do or buy
or somewhere I'd like to go, and into the list it goes :)

> Waiting For

	Dependancies on others?

	I'm thinking of:

ToDo - Work
	Project1
		Waiting on..
		Delegated..
		Tasks..

	That sort of thing. Keep the waiting on structurally related to
the project.

	Currently for work-type stuff, I use tags for status ("Active",
"Delegated", "Shelved"). Thinking I shouldn't use Tags for "delegated",
but for who "owns" something, and the delegation as a parent (as above).
USe tags for defining locality of operation (which office, which mode of
work to perform in, etc), to narrow in at work. Need to better refine my
system there, but hoping GtD has some good ideas :)

	Neeeed sleeeep baaaadly-jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, paulbcf wrote:

> I've found it works the best to use multiple files (one big file or 
> a few big files seem to take longer to open and close-I would expect 
> that) 
> 
> I actually like to put matching files for each of my to-do 
> categories (which are by context ala-GTD)  This allows me to view 
> my "tod-do" list or Next Actions list with Shadow's power!
> 
> I tag my actions with a "time required" tag, I've found that as long 
> as I put a letter in front of the tag A5, B10, C15 they will "group" 
> correctly on a sort by primary tag etc. 

	They will always group correctly. If you have one tag "10", then
all items with that tag will group together. If you have three tags "10",
all looking alike, then they may or may not group, since items pointing to
one "10" tag are different than items pointing to another "10" tag. But
items with the same tag will always group.

	I'm thinking of keeping my multiple file approach; keeps your nose
to one context. I think for me, I've got to ditch some files.. I've got
about 100 or more, and thats just not useful when time is tight. No more
of this "expect to be a large project, give it its own file" for me. None
of my projects are so complex as to need their own file, and if they are,
I'm doing something else wrong. (Aside from reference/docs/observations,
which do get a file, in a category aside)

> I currently categorize my files by Work, Personal etc but I'm 
> thinking of switching it to the "runway levels" mentioned in GTD 
> current actions, projects, 3-5 year vision etc.---I've got a lot of 
> other lists that aren't next action lists and it might make them 
> easier to locate. 

	You mean the levels of "10,000 foot view", "20,000 foot view",
etc?

> I use Megawicki-Piki (only the Piki part) to pop up a list of all my 
> shadow files with one swipe---very handy!

	What if you have piles of files?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: llgriffll  <keith@t...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:15pm
Subject: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

Currently I use different lists for different major projects and 
clients that I am dealing with. I have a list with for my current 
client, tracking hours, tasks, meetings, etc. I have lists for 
various aspects of my life, from errands to run to phone calls to 
make. (I'm using a very similar system to PG's). I also have a list 
for personal goals, both current and in planning.

The idea of combining lists is very tempting. I like PG though enjoy 
having the different lists because I can specify the default todo 
category when I check that magical box.

I use Datebk5 to filter my todos based on context. For example, if I 
am at my "work desk" view, I have 3 resources available: work desk, 
phone, and computer. Datebk will list only items in those 
categories, and of course only those items currently linked to the 
todo database. I have views setup like this for the various contexts 
of my life.

While Datebk5 is an awesome program, it seems to me I could do all 
of this filtering in one Shadow file if Shadow had one thing:

Easier tagging...even with the recent tag it is a pain to set that 
initial tag. I would use tags (I don't currently), for indicating 
the todo category. I've requested in the past, a way to set a 
default category for tags. The default category would always show 
those tags when I click add tag from the tag column. I could then 
save myself a tab and a refresh every time...I know this sounds 
small, but it is preventing me from using tags. I do like the new 
function of having the last used tag category remembered...it could 
help, but I still petition for a default category.

I could then combine a bunch of my projects into one file. I could 
use zoom to drill into one project when there is intensive work to 
be done with in the project. When I want a context view I could use 
a filter to show me just the next actions with tags for work desk, 
phone, and computer...wait...I can't currently because custom 
filters doesn't have a next actions step...but I hear rumor this 
will be added ;-)

With the above, you can see Shadow could be a true GTD app. "Hard 
Landscape" items could be defined with a tag and also shown in the 
filtered view. Of course those items would have a date associated 
with them and be filtered on that as well, currently I don't use any 
dates. 

With the two suggestions above I think I'd spend more of my day in 
Shadow than Datebk5. The interface isn't as nice to me (stuck on 
seeing my appointments above my todos by context). But it would be 
easier to get things into the system. Simply zoom into the project, 
click new item, and tag it. I could also save some space by removing 
the todo checkbox, and I would probably eliminate most linking.

Hmm, all that sounds scary doesn't it? Let's say I didn't lose the 
linking...something I would find very handy is the ability to set 
the default todo category equal to the top-level tag. I would 
envision having tags setup for my todo categories (and being shown 
as default when I click add tag ;-) and tagging each item with that 
category. When I ticked the todo checkbox, Shadow would place the 
todo into the category that is the primary tag rather than a list 
default setting...I think this would help PG out as well with her 
system...she could combine lists then.

Ahhh, thinking on a Saturday morning...you've unleashed the beast 
again, shame on you!

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	With my head full of my own "life system", some GtD (1/3rd 
way
> through the book), and various other systems I've read, I'm 
bouncing
> around ideas on reforming my system... and as usual, I thought it 
miht be
> interesting to ask what everyone else is doing.
> 
> 	One question that eternally scratches an itch is.. "how many
> files? what to put in each?". Now this depends very much on each 
persons
> specific own system, and perhaps Mr. Allen has some ideas I've not 
gotten
> to yet.. but I've always liked a Shadow category ToDo's, with a 
few lists
> based on most important contexts.. home, work, shelved, etc. 
Really, these
> can be easily combined via tags and such.
> 
> 	How do *you* decide to put all your ToDo's into one file, or 
file
> by context and what sorts of contexts? What top level items do you 
use,
> and what second levels? Could be an interesting debate. I'm sure 
the
> GtD_Palm guys have done this to death (??), but I'm opening this 
for
> peoples personal systems, GtD, and other systems...
> 
> 	How do *you* organizd your *files*, and what goes in them? 
(We've
> previously discussed here and there tidbits inside of files, but 
rarely at
> the high level of files)
> 
> 	Tired-jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Desktop feature- XML/HTML styles

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "madmaxmedia" <madmaxmedia@y...> wrote:
> As mcmug suggested, I re-uploaded the sample file in zip format. 

I've uploaded the xslt. Try it. Currently, it only display the item 
title and item note, for that's all your sample has. Let me know if 
you need to display other items.

From: paulbcf  <ext555@p...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

Jeff, I found if I created tags just 5,10,15 etc the tags with 10 
were above the 5 (hmmm, maybe I shoulda put 05 ?) 

My purpose is to sort the items in the list by time and see the 
smallest first so I can knock off a 5 minute action with 8 minutes 
between two mtgs. etc. 

pure GTD is to make an intuitive choice (as he puts it) from the 
list of options but I've found that Shadow can speed up that 
decision making sometimes!  

Yes the runway levels might be my new categories for files . 

Piki scrolls down the list of files --same as your "send to file" 
feature does when it pops up the list of files--

I've had up to 50 files and it works great.

I tried the one file approach with tags for context and time 
required etc. but one list gets too un-wieldy after a while.

If you want a really great presentation of GTD--they now have a tape 
or cd set of David live at his web-site --it's not as in-depth as 
the book is --but he's at his best live --

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, paulbcf wrote:
> 
> > I've found it works the best to use multiple files (one big file 
or 
> > a few big files seem to take longer to open and close-I would 
expect 
> > that) 
> > 
> > I actually like to put matching files for each of my to-do 
> > categories (which are by context ala-GTD)  This allows me to 
view 
> > my "tod-do" list or Next Actions list with Shadow's power!
> > 
> > I tag my actions with a "time required" tag, I've found that as 
long 
> > as I put a letter in front of the tag A5, B10, C15 they 
will "group" 
> > correctly on a sort by primary tag etc. 
> 
> 	They will always group correctly. If you have one tag "10", 
then
> all items with that tag will group together. If you have three 
tags "10",
> all looking alike, then they may or may not group, since items 
pointing to
> one "10" tag are different than items pointing to another "10" 
tag. But
> items with the same tag will always group.
> 
> 	I'm thinking of keeping my multiple file approach; keeps 
your nose
> to one context. I think for me, I've got to ditch some files.. 
I've got
> about 100 or more, and thats just not useful when time is tight. 
No more
> of this "expect to be a large project, give it its own file" for 
me. None
> of my projects are so complex as to need their own file, and if 
they are,
> I'm doing something else wrong. (Aside from 
reference/docs/observations,
> which do get a file, in a category aside)
> 
> > I currently categorize my files by Work, Personal etc but I'm 
> > thinking of switching it to the "runway levels" mentioned in GTD 
> > current actions, projects, 3-5 year vision etc.---I've got a lot 
of 
> > other lists that aren't next action lists and it might make them 
> > easier to locate. 
> 
> 	You mean the levels of "10,000 foot view", "20,000 foot 
view",
> etc?
> 
> > I use Megawicki-Piki (only the Piki part) to pop up a list of 
all my 
> > shadow files with one swipe---very handy!
> 
> 	What if you have piles of files?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

Where you'll struggle there; is that during a weekly review you're 
going to want to view all your "Waiting On" and "Delegated" items at 
once. If you try to do your review  on a per project basis; you 
probably find, like most ppl, that you'll get stuck working on one 
project to death; and forgetting to review all projects. The net effect 
is that you will think the system letting you down after you miss an 
important "Waiting On".  When really you aren't reviewing things in an 
efficient manner.



On Saturday, Aug 24, 2002, at 10:56 America/Chicago, Jeff Mitchell 
wrote:

> ToDo - Work
> 	Project1
> 		Waiting on..
> 		Delegated..
> 		Tasks..
>
> 	That sort of thing. Keep the waiting on structurally related to
> the project.
>
> 	Currently for work-type stuff, I use tags for status ("Active",
> "Delegated", "Shelved"). Thinking I shouldn't use Tags for "delegated",
> but for who "owns" something, and the delegation as a parent (as 
> above).
> USe tags for defining locality of operation (which office, which mode 
> of
> work to perform in, etc), to narrow in at work. Need to better refine 
> my
> system there, but hoping GtD has some good ideas :)

From: nvdenuttall  <nvdenuttall@e...>
Date: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:17pm
Subject: fatal

Everytime I try to open shadow I get a fatal alert and my PalmIIIxe 
resets. Nothing else is erased or causes a fatal note. I tried 
removing Shadow and reinstalling but it still gives a fatal alert. 
I'm running Palm OS3 and using Outlook.
  Thanks for the help

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Sun Aug 25, 2002 2:11am
Subject: RE: Kicking it up a notch..

> 	AN auto-colouring of todos you mean, based on category? :)

Yeah. Unfortunately the auto-icon by category thing doesn't work when 
things are created in Shadow. But I have work items as red, classes 
are yellow, pink for home, green for money, etc. Works GREAT for 
visual coding. Lets me see at a glance what sort of day I'm looking at-
- mainly work stuff, or class stuff, etc.

> 	File system? You have a list to track what lists you have 
outside the PDA? Neat :)

It's a great help when I'm looking for something, plus it's nice to 
have a visual overview of what files I have. If I wanted to get really 
fancy, I could use tags to tell me where a file is, like if I take a 
work file home or vice versa, so I don't go crazy looking for 
something at the office if I just took it home.

> > Home
> > 	Things I have to do, get repaired, etc.
> 
> 	Do yo use c-filters and tags to break up views at home, or a
> straight list?

Not really. This isn't that big of a deal. Usually a list of no more 
than 10-20 things.

>>	This is a temp file (going through & doing major cleaning out)
> 
> 	Temp as in your clearing file, or temp as in you don't intend 
to have it in the future? I have avoided dumping into one big file, 
then "send to"ing to better files. But I find I have a few files full 
of the wrong junk now, as opposed to one file with "all wrong" junk, 
ready to be
> filed :/

Won't have it after I get completely organized. Someday. It reminds me 
of which rooms/areas I've cleared out, what needs to be worked on, 
etc. Also includes a list of the items I no longer want and have 
decided to eBay.

> 
> > Shopping
> > 	Organized by store
> > 		Then by specific items
> 
> 	Damn, you're way better organized than me :)

This isn't that big a deal-- more for things that have moved from 
someday/maybe to "gotta have" like books, videos, a certain clothing 
item I need to complete an outfit, etc. Not for weekly grocery 
shopping, for example, though I have listed out some of my favorite 
foods that I don't want to be without.

> 	I have a huge file for things to "get" (mp3s, CDs, books, 
courses to learn, restaurants, etc). In GtD I guess its the "someday" 
file, but I like to keep it as the "when near a junk store, look here" 
clearing house. I find its one of my larger lists.. always something 
I'd like to do or buy or somewhere I'd like to go, and into the list 
it goes :)

Of course!!  But with the outline completely compressed, I only have 
about 6-10 top level items, so it's easy to expand a category when I 
need it.

> > Waiting For
> 
> 	Dependancies on others?

Yes, in any context, be it work or something I've ordered on the 
internet or eBay that I'm waiting to receive.

>Need to better refine my system there, but hoping GtD has some good 
ideas :)

It has GREAT ideas. I don't worry too much about context-based stuff. 
I don't have a car, so I'm generally either at work with a phone & 
computer, or I'm at home, or have made a special trip with someone to 
go shopping or such. I've benefitted greately from all of the GTD 
ideas, but don't really use the @phone, @email, @store stuff at all.

> 	Neeeed sleeeep baaaadly-jeff

Once you get all GTD'd and organized and finish the desktop, you can 
get some shuteye!!

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Sun Aug 25, 2002 4:27am
Subject: new sorting problem

If you send-to-file and then open the target list, the new item (from 
the clipboard) appears at the top. It will ignore filtering and 
sorting. Reapply filter doesn't change a bit, but I forget how I 
managed to sort it back to sequence again.

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Sun Aug 25, 2002 4:29am
Subject: request: showing start date instead of target date

Now I see the advantage. Yes I prefer to see start date rather than 
target date on the list. I didn't actually look at the target date at 
all, except for the highlighting criteria. I changes start date every 
date to move tasks around, to make them appear at a later date, 
especially for recurring tasks (finish it this time, and I add a week 
to it).

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sun Aug 25, 2002 7:02pm
Subject: Sorting Suggestion

Hi Jeff,

I was wondering if this can be done or is in the works for the next 
release.  Sorting deals with a primary and secondary sort option, 
would it be possible to have two primary sorting options and two 
secondary sort options... 

Primary 

Priority    &   Target Date
Ascending       Ascending

Secondary

Primary Tag
Ascending

TIA

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:52am
Subject: Re: Re: Title Sort Order

> > woes in collecting) - just a thought - we think of you too ;)
>
>	Its on my list of thingds to consider if I must; once I fix up and
>improve the conduit and desktop, I might bump up a few bucks, or change
>policiy to "free updates for a year" or something". I hate to do it, and
>have managed to avoid it for a couple of years though :)
>
>		jeff

Or you can take some of all the unused time you have ;)  and code up that 
datebook/shadow viewer you talked about once.  I'm sure a ton of people 
would be interested in purchasing that.  I'd suggest maybe partnering with 
another coder with that so it could be accomplished without adding too much 
to your overload.



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: guilapbr  <guilherme.pedrosa@i...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:56am
Subject: Shadow HH item note question

Hello,

Anyone knows if is there a reason for the note editing screen being 
2 lines shorter than in Palm Memo? Just curiosity ('cause I think 
the Palm screen is small enough for wasting it)

Guilherme.

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:20pm
Subject: RE: Title Sort Order

I'm having problems too. Trying to set up reading lists for grad school
classes and when I sort the chapters get out of order like this:

Ch1
Ch10
Ch11
Ch12
Ch2
Ch21
Ch22
Ch3
Ch4

Etc. Is there any way to have the sort be strictly numeric? Any chapter
numbers higher than ten or twenty-something get out of order.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:43 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Title Sort Order

	Try a test list with a, g, z and try titlebar sort ascend and
descend, and I imagine it works as expected until you're blue in the
face. Then toss a @foo in there and see if things get broken?

		jeff

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:41pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis (grn_white GTD question)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "llgriffll" <keith@t...> wrote:
> Do you use only one category for your calls, shopping list items, 
> chores, goals, etc.? 

No I don't, which is why maybe I do a sort of my own GTD.  Basically I 
have a number of categories (I set this up way before tags which I 
only see as useful if you use 1 mega list!) that seperate my work 
stuff from home stuff.  

My work stuff has 6 categories.  The main category is for each file I 
have (think 'project' for you computer or corp guys). Each file is a 
seperate list named for its file number. I have a category for clients 
with each client a seperate list (of the files each client has).  The 
file list and its respective client list are cross file linked 
together (love that file link).  There are seperate categories for 
planning (ie longer file planning outlines whcih I file link to the 
item in the file list that generated it), precedents (ie templates 
ets.) and reference lists. 

Then for I only have 1 personal category for non-work stuff, but 
different lists for the usual - finances, home projects,shopping,goals 
,health stuff, planning, etc.

I link my to do's to ToDo Plus so I can see them across all lists (SP 
origin note and the shadowlink hack are godsends).  I have the same 
categories set up on ToDO Plus so that I look at only the todo's for 
work or personal seperate (or all together so I dont forget things). 
There I can filter by target dates really easily (better than SP) and 
adjust target dates etc. I can also use the repeating todo's, hard to 
do in SP.   I use Plonk to automatically roll over my todo's.  I also 
link to datebook appts.  I just use the native datebook.  That's it.  
Pretty common sense if you ask me and without the 'guru speak' ie. 
'next action' - I organize my todo's by priority, and due date so it 
is pretty easy to see which is next action.  My problem is that I have 
a number of files running somewhat in parallel competing for my time. 
 So its not so much an issue of what is the 'next action' such as if I 
was only working on 1 project, because each of my 75 odd files has a 
next action.  The issue is which 'next action' to do next.  Hence the 
need to prioritize and watch ultimate deadlines. Further, the next 
actions on each file frequently change - by forces outside of my 
control, and my calendar regularly gets changed - a 2 week commitment 
will disappear the day before, or suddenly I am double booked on 
something - again this is outside of my control - so flexibility is 
the key for me.  "next action' thinking I think would be great in a 
fairly structured and linear environment.  I work in neither - my 
structures change daily and each file - while on the whole runs in a 
linear fashion, may take a circuitous route to get there, and no two 
run at the same speed.  So my work is more like managing 75 cars in a 
race, each car running different length of race, at different speeds 
with different starting times and finish times, and without crashing 
any of the cars.  A snapshot look - each mornings review, would appear 
to many to be chaotic, and tommorow will be no different. Each day its 
decision time about what to juggle, what to do next among my competing 
files.  Straight line 'next action' thinking would be unworkable for 
me because of the constantly changing next actions - a phone call any 
minute could change my whole week, or next 3 months, or not.

Now I haven't read the book, and I may have misrepresented what it 
says, or what GTD stands for - but to me , what I do is pretty much 
common sense.  Of course tips are always welcome, but I still fail to 
see why everyone seems to rave about this GTD method which seems to 
organize in a strange way ...

> 
> The point of GTD is really categorization of lists...so that when 
> you sit down at a desk with a phone and a computer you have a list 
> of all the calls and all of the items you need to do at a computer. 
> You don't see the items you can't possibly do at that moment, such 
> as washing the kitchen floor, getting the cars oil changed, or 
> picking up the soccer uniform for junior.
> 
> You then determine from that list what is the best use of the time 
> you have, and what can be done given your energy level. The Palm 
> really doesn't make any decisions for you...it just filters. 
> 
> That's my impression of GTD...it's not an over-complicated system at 
> all. In a way you are using GTD from the sounds of it...you just did 
> it without purchasing the book ;-)
> 
> As far as getting it all done...there are tons of time management 
> and project management ideas out there that could help. We all do 
> things our different ways.
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "grn_white" <michael.walter@r...> wrote:
> > 
> > This and the GTD folks really intrique me. I don't get the point 
> of 
> > organizing your to dos by where you are. How exactly does that 
> help 
> > get things done?  I wouldn't think the problem is knowing where 
> you 
> > are to organize your to dos. If you are at a 'phone' for example, 
> I 
> > would have thought it obvious that is when you call people. When 
> you 
> > are out shopping, that is when you buy things.  The point of a to 
> do 
> > list is simply a reminder of what has to be done.  If I look at 
> the 
> > list and I see I have 3 calls to make - then I make them.  It 
> simply 
> > makes no sense to me (maybe I am strange) why you would say to 
> your 
> > palm/computer - 'OK, I am sitting at my phone, I have no clue what 
> I 
> > should do here, tell me what to do' which is what GTD is premised 
> on. 
> >  My problem has never been knowing what to do, it is getting it 
> all 
> > done in the time I have. Too many top priority items to do .....
> > 
> > Maybe this project management thing is an indusrty to itself.....
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> > > Actually it's very much not LifeBalance;
> > > 
> > > it's very much Project Management, due date and resource 
> > availability 
> > > based.
> > > 
> > > see: www.1soft.com and www.taskline.info
> > > 
> > > On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 12:14 PM, Earthlink wrote:
> > > 
> > > > funny, sounds like a Life Balance type of thing, which i 
> > personally 
> > > > hated.
> > > > don't like it doing my thinking for me!
> > > > kevin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > Enjoy life!
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
> > > > To: <shadow-discuss@y...>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:53 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a the ability 
> to 
> > pre
> > > > plan the work day base on appointment commitments. By about 
> 8am 
> > each day
> > > > my calendar is about set. Based On that I'm looking to have my 
> > Todos
> > > > flow into the gaps in the schedule; giving me recommendations 
> for 
> > the
> > > > best things to work on when based on time available and 
> priority.
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 04:08 AM, Jacob Share wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I too would love to see this functionality in Shadow but in 
> the 
> > > >> meantime
> > > >> have you tried Hours?
> > > >>
> > > >> http://hours.sourceforge.net/
> > > >>
> > > >> Jacob
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
> > > >> To: <shadow-discuss@y...>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:25 AM
> > > >> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path 
> > Analysis to
> > > >>> Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow 
> database as 
> > is 
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> linking. The only thing missing is display of the 
> information.  
> > See
> > > >>> http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm 
> thinking, 
> > but not
> > > >>> on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable 
> > feature set?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _________________________________________________
> > > >>> Bob Pankratz  •  bob@r...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Linux is only free if your time is worthless
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > Bob Pankratz
> > > Director of Technology Services
> > > Plexus Corp.
> > > www.plexus.com
> > > bob.pankratz@p...
> > > 
> > > "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon 
> himself."
> > > -- Nietzsche
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

being discussed:

I use Megawicki-Piki (only the Piki part) to pop up a list of all my
> shadow files with one swipe---very handy!

      What if you have piles of files?
___________

With Piki I have several different "paths" into Shadow. First, as
mentioned, I have a "+Shadowplans" that brings up a list of all my SP
Files. Piki allows you to page down if you have a ton of files. Then I have
separate Piki entries for important lists. I have my @In-Box at the top, so
I can get to it with a swipe and a tap. This is where most of my task entry
goes. I have custom views for personal and work, and use tags as contexts
and sort by those. All new items automatically get linked to todo as @inbox
category. Then I can go through my inbox at the end of the day and sort
things out to other categories. I continue to use ToDo for the repeat
tasks, and because I like to see things on the desktop too. If I enter
tasks in Palm DT, I just prepend them with [[[@in]]]. I do have separate
lists for major projects, because I like to see my project outline and know
where I'm at. Hope this helps.

Scott

PS
another great thing I like about SP is that with a few taps I can move
something from ToDo to my "hard schedule" in datebook just by changing the
link and then giving it a time.

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 3:00pm
Subject: RE: Title Sort Order

Jen,

This is typical text sorting. If you want it to sort "correctly", put a
zero in front of the single digit chapters. This works until you get to 99,
then you'd have to make them 001. I use memo for my DRE (daily record of
events), and to get them to sort chronologically I have to use YY/MM/DD.
Hope this helps.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    "PocketGoddes                                                                                  
                    s"                   To:     <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>                                  
                    <jen@p...        cc:                                                                       
                    ddess.com>           Subject:     RE: [shadow-discuss] Title Sort Order                        
                                                                                                                   
                    08/26/2002                                                                                     
                    09:20 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




I'm having problems too. Trying to set up reading lists for grad school
classes and when I sort the chapters get out of order like this:

Ch1
Ch10
Ch11
Ch12
Ch2
Ch21
Ch22
Ch3
Ch4

Etc. Is there any way to have the sort be strictly numeric? Any chapter
numbers higher than ten or twenty-something get out of order.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:43 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Title Sort Order

           Try a test list with a, g, z and try titlebar sort ascend and
descend, and I imagine it works as expected until you're blue in the
face. Then toss a @foo in there and see if things get broken?

                     jeff



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From: rknowles9  <rknowles@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:01pm
Subject: Returning from file links

I'd like to create Shadowplan files that are indices or tables of 
contents to other Shadowplan files.  This works fine if I create file 
link items in the TOC file, then I can goto the linked file from the 
TOC.  What I can't figure out is how then to return to the TOC from 
the linked file.  I haven't left Shadowplan, so the "Return to Shadow 
after goto" option doesn't help here.  Two ideas I have are 1) 
include a file link in the "child" that will let me goto the "parent" 
TOC; 2) use MegaWiki links instead of Shadowplan file links, so I can 
use MW return.  I don't like 1) since I may want to point to a file 
from several places (maybe TOC and Index, or some other organizing 
meta file), and then I'd clutter it with all the return pointers.  
Also, the return navigation would require finding the return link and 
activating it, and also remembering which file I came from (something 
I don't want to have to remember.) 2) might be okay, but I was 
looking for a pure Shadowplan solution if it exists.  (Have I just 
missed it in the manual?  I looked!) 

Thanks,
Dick

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Returning from file links

Two options not mentioned:
1. use the "recent files" list which you get to from the "V" drop down
menu.
2. Have an entry in Piki for your TOC file, then you can just pop-up the
Piki list and jump to your TOC from anywhere.

There are some pretty strict rules to get MW Linki to work well with Shadow
files, so I'd leave that as a last resort. Hope this helps.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    "rknowles9"                                                                                    
                    <rknowles@a...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    bi.com>              cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     [shadow-discuss] Returning from file links                   
                    08/26/2002                                                                                     
                    12:01 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




I'd like to create Shadowplan files that are indices or tables of
contents to other Shadowplan files.  This works fine if I create file
link items in the TOC file, then I can goto the linked file from the
TOC.  What I can't figure out is how then to return to the TOC from
the linked file.  I haven't left Shadowplan, so the "Return to Shadow
after goto" option doesn't help here.  Two ideas I have are 1)
include a file link in the "child" that will let me goto the "parent"
TOC; 2) use MegaWiki links instead of Shadowplan file links, so I can
use MW return.  I don't like 1) since I may want to point to a file
from several places (maybe TOC and Index, or some other organizing
meta file), and then I'd clutter it with all the return pointers.
Also, the return navigation would require finding the return link and
activating it, and also remembering which file I came from (something
I don't want to have to remember.) 2) might be okay, but I was
looking for a pure Shadowplan solution if it exists.  (Have I just
missed it in the manual?  I looked!)

Thanks,
Dick




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shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:28pm
Subject: Shadow Desktop

Hi Jeff, do you think we can have a very rough estimate as to when   
you have planned to release the newly updated SP Desktop.


TIA

From: bdickenson_98a  <rdickens@b...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:48pm
Subject: tags and linked shadow files

I just started experimenting with tags.  In the past I've used 
multiple shadow files for various projects and linked them all 
together with file links from a "master" project.  (Some of the sub-
projects can get pretty big.)  What I'd like to be able to accomplish 
is set tag-level filters from my master project and have the 
appropriate tasks from the linked sub-projects be shown in the 
master.  (Tagging the single line file reference with all the tags 
referenced in the subproject is not a feasible solution here)  That 
way my master project is the control center for all the detailed 
subprojects and I can get the right info by defining/applying the 
right tag filters in the master. 

Tags filtering doesn't appear to work across Shadow files even though 
the tag database is "global".  

Anybody have any ideas or help on this ?

From: wbornstein  <wbornstein@a...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 7:29pm
Subject: Re: Title Sort Order

I'm new at this, but I'm having trouble with sorting.  I'm using 
names for meetings with individuals in my agenda list.  No extra 
characters, but they aren't soring predictably.  I've done a lot of 
cutting and pasting to assemble this list (after importing from 
ToDo).  Any ideas as to what I'm screwing up?
Thanks.
Bill
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, stugib_2000 wrote:
> 
> > What's the sort order you use on a title sort?  I'm trying to 
insert 
> > a suitable character at the beginning of an entry so it always 
sorts 
> > to the top or bottom of the list when you use the titlebar sort 
to 
> 
> 	Sometrimes sorts can get confused by some characters. I'm not 
sure
> if its still occuring in the current version of Shadow, but I know 
in past
> versions some symbols would mess it up. I'm not sure if its a bug 
in the
> OS or Shadow.. prolly a little of both (ie: We're not ASCII here; 
we're
> sor tof ascii, and sort of unicode ;)
> 
> 	Try a test list with a, g, z and try titlebar sort ascend and
> descend, and I imagine it works as expected until you're blue in the
> face. Then toss a @foo in there and see if things get broken?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: madmaxmedia  <madmaxmedia@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:33pm
Subject: Re: Desktop feature- XML/HTML styles

Thanks so much for your time in doing this.

I didn't even know it could be done so easily with just IE!

Thanks again,
Steve


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "mcmug1997" <Alex.Fung.Ho-
san+yahoo@g...> wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "madmaxmedia" <madmaxmedia@y...> wrote:
> > As mcmug suggested, I re-uploaded the sample file in zip format. 
> 
> I've uploaded the xslt. Try it. Currently, it only display the 
item 
> title and item note, for that's all your sample has. Let me know 
if 
> you need to display other items.

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 8:06am
Subject: Re: Desktop feature- XML/HTML styles

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "madmaxmedia" <madmaxmedia@y...> wrote:
> Thanks so much for your time in doing this.

de nada. It took me more time to write the readme than the xslt.
 
> I didn't even know it could be done so easily with just IE!

Let me know what else you want to see on IE.

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 8:22am
Subject: DA version of SP?

Will there be a DA version of SP? It will be very useful if I can see 
SP lists and Datebk5 calendar without jumping from one application to 
another. My SP list isn't really big, but the save time is now 
getting noticeable. I don't think SP can hook to the DB5 split 
screen, but a DA popup will be very nice.

From: stugib_2000  <stuart.gibbons@p...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 9:05am
Subject: Re: Title Sort Order

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, stugib_2000 wrote:
> 
> > What's the sort order you use on a title sort?  I'm trying to 
insert 
> > a suitable character at the beginning of an entry so it always 
sorts 
> > to the top or bottom of the list when you use the titlebar sort 
to 
> 
> 	Sometrimes sorts can get confused by some characters. I'm not 
sure
> if its still occuring in the current version of Shadow, but I know 
in past
> versions some symbols would mess it up. I'm not sure if its a bug 
in the
> OS or Shadow.. prolly a little of both (ie: We're not ASCII here; 
we're
> sor tof ascii, and sort of unicode ;)
> 
> 	Try a test list with a, g, z and try titlebar sort ascend and
> descend, and I imagine it works as expected until you're blue in the
> face. Then toss a @foo in there and see if things get broken?
> 
> 		jeff

Jeff,

Behaviour is strange once @foo gets in there.  Without any symbols 
titlebar sort works fine as predicted.  I then added @foo to the end 
of the list and sorted ascending & descending and got a,g,z,@ and 
z,g,a,@ - i.e. the letters sorted correctly but @ was always left at 
the bottom....until....

I then moved @ up one place so it was second to bottom so the 'manual 
order' was a,g,@,z.  The titlebar sort then gives @,a,g,z on 
ascending and g,a,@,z on descending.  Wacky huh?

Any ideas what symbols will sort to top and bottom in this 
ASCII/Unicode hybrid, assuming the sort works correctly?

Stuart

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 1:58pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, llgriffll wrote:

> The idea of combining lists is very tempting. I like PG though enjoy
> having the different lists because I can specify the default todo
> category when I check that magical box.

	Such little pleasures eh? :)

> While Datebk5 is an awesome program, it seems to me I could do all 
> of this filtering in one Shadow file if Shadow had one thing:
> 
> Easier tagging...even with the recent tag it is a pain to set that
> initial tag. I would use tags (I don't currently), for indicating the
> todo category. I've requested in the past, a way to set a default
> category for tags. The default category would always show those tags
> when I click add tag from the tag column. I could then save myself a
> tab and a refresh every time...I know this sounds small, but it is
> preventing me from using tags. I do like the new function of having
> the last used tag category remembered...it could help, but I still
> petition for a default category.

	The new (in alpha testing to everyone) two-tap-tagging isn't
sufficient/ (ie: It remembers last add only for the session;I could make
it remember the last tagged category forever, but that opens us up to
holes ni the OS when you delete that tag category..)

> phone, and computer...wait...I can't currently because custom 
> filters doesn't have a next actions step...but I hear rumor this 
> will be added ;-)

	Sometime :)

> linking...something I would find very handy is the ability to set 
> the default todo category equal to the top-level tag. I would 

	You have have thousands of tags, and only 15 todo categories; as
such, implicit tag to todo category mapping isn't useful. Being able to
set a tag to map to certain todo categories is possible, but lots of work
(ie: Whe you change tags, and haev multiple conflicting tags, etc).

> Ahhh, thinking on a Saturday morning...you've unleashed the beast 
> again, shame on you!

	You're a scary scary man :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, paulbcf wrote:

> Jeff, I found if I created tags just 5,10,15 etc the tags with 10 were
> above the 5 (hmmm, maybe I shoulda put 05 ?)

	Shouldn't work out like that; except it whacky conditions, they
should sort by tag creation time.

> I tried the one file approach with tags for context and time 
> required etc. but one list gets too un-wieldy after a while.

	yeah; seems ilke keeping multiple lists (as designed :) is the way
to go; tis just so tempting now to start collapsing them. I think the wya
to go is to mayeb collapse soem related lists, but dont' (as usual) get
carried away :)

> If you want a really great presentation of GTD--they now have a tape
> or cd set of David live at his web-site --it's not as in-depth as the
> book is --but he's at his best live --

	And at his most expensive ;) I often like non-live -- live implies
you're paying for showmanship. I like to pay for content.. if I want a
show, I'll go to a concert or the theatre ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:03pm
Subject: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Bob Pankratz wrote:

> Where you'll struggle there; is that during a weekly review you're
> going to want to view all your "Waiting On" and "Delegated" items at
> once. If you try to do your review on a per project basis; you
> probably find, like most ppl, that you'll get stuck working on one
> project to death; and forgetting to review all projects. The net
> effect is that you will think the system letting you down after you
> miss an important "Waiting On".  When really you aren't reviewing
> things in an efficient manner.

	True enough; sometime I'll need to add the ability to "add
filters".. ie: If one filter is active, allow you to "add" another fileter
on top. So one could have a custom filter to narrow by project, and one to
narrow by state, and then just activate one, then the other, on top. This
would avoid having to create a zillion custom filters to make reviewing
easier..

	So little time :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:04pm
Subject: Re: fatal

On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, nvdenuttall wrote:

> Everytime I try to open shadow I get a fatal alert and my PalmIIIxe
> resets. Nothing else is erased or causes a fatal note. I tried
> removing Shadow and reinstalling but it still gives a fatal alert.  
> I'm running Palm OS3 and using Outlook.

	What version of Shadow? Did it always do this, or just started
happening?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:11pm
Subject: Re: Sorting Suggestion

On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> I was wondering if this can be done or is in the works for the next
> release.  Sorting deals with a primary and secondary sort option,
> would it be possible to have two primary sorting options and two
> secondary sort options...

	Two things cannot have the same priority; one must always be more
importa t than the other (otherwise you'd never be able to sort when
they're equal, right?) So instead of two levels of sort priority, you want
4? Yeesh.. 3 maybe, but 4 seems of of control :)

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:08pm
Subject: Re: new sorting problem

On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, mcmug1997 wrote:

> If you send-to-file and then open the target list, the new item (from 
> the clipboard) appears at the top. It will ignore filtering and 
> sorting. Reapply filter doesn't change a bit, but I forget how I 
> managed to sort it back to sequence again.

	When you "send to file", the item is simply inserted at the top of
the file (otherwise it woudl be tedious for you to specify where in the
file it goes, every time you do a "Send to"). Filters will work fine on
it, if it satisfies or di0-satisfies the criterion, etc -- what items
passed/failed a filter is not stored in the file and is recalculated at
load time (to avoid data bloat in storage, and problems like the above)..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:12pm
Subject: Re: Shadow HH item note question

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, guilapbr wrote:

> Anyone knows if is there a reason for the note editing screen being 
> 2 lines shorter than in Palm Memo? Just curiosity ('cause I think 
> the Palm screen is small enough for wasting it)

	The space was reserved for a row of memo buttons I had intended to
add, but never got to ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:13pm
Subject: RE: Title Sort Order

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> I'm having problems too. Trying to set up reading lists for grad school
> classes and when I sort the chapters get out of order like this:
> 
> Ch1
> Ch10
> Ch11
> Ch12
> Ch2
> Ch21
> Ch22
> Ch3
> Ch4
> 
> Etc. Is there any way to have the sort be strictly numeric? Any chapter
> numbers higher than ten or twenty-something get out of order.

	I have considered a numeric sort model, but that woudl only work
if you used titles that were just numbers omit the "Ch"). Since most
people do include text in the title befoer the number, a nuemric model
can't realyl work and yuo need use the good old string model, which sorts
as above. A toughie :/

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 10:43 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Title Sort Order
> 
> 	Try a test list with a, g, z and try titlebar sort ascend and
> descend, and I imagine it works as expected until you're blue in the
> face. Then toss a @foo in there and see if things get broken?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:18pm
Subject: Re: Returning from file links

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, rknowles9 wrote:

> I'd like to create Shadowplan files that are indices or tables of 
> contents to other Shadowplan files.  This works fine if I create file 
> link items in the TOC file, then I can goto the linked file from the 
> TOC.  What I can't figure out is how then to return to the TOC from 
> the linked file.  I haven't left Shadowplan, so the "Return to Shadow 
> after goto" option doesn't help here.  Two ideas I have are 1) 

	"Recent files popup"; its in the pulldown menus, and in the
top-right popbuttons, and if Shadow is bound to a hardkey then while in a
list view you can push that hardkey to pop it up. The recent files shows
the last 10 or so files you've been to, letting you pop aruond pretty
quickly.

> include a file link in the "child" that will let me goto the "parent" 

	Hard to maintain, since you can of course have a zillion file
links to any given file, back and forth

	More likely I'd keep a "stack" so you coudl go through 5 file
links, then work your way back up by using a 'Back" button. But the recent
files seems a more generla solution, so I've avoided bloating for the Back
so far :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Desktop

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> Hi Jeff, do you think we can have a very rough estimate as to when   
> you have planned to release the newly updated SP Desktop.

	Nope; right now my time is at the whim of a number of very lame
companies. Once they stop screwing me around, I can get back to useful
things :/

		jeff 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:21pm
Subject: Re: tags and linked shadow files

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, bdickenson_98a wrote:

> I just started experimenting with tags.  In the past I've used
> multiple shadow files for various projects and linked them all
> together with file links from a "master" project.  (Some of the sub-
> projects can get pretty big.)  What I'd like to be able to accomplish
> is set tag-level filters from my master project and have the
> appropriate tasks from the linked sub-projects be shown in the master.  
> (Tagging the single line file reference with all the tags referenced
> in the subproject is not a feasible solution here)  That way my master
> project is the control center for all the detailed subprojects and I
> can get the right info by defining/applying the right tag filters in
> the master.

	I will be adding some options so that creating new items copies
the tags of its neighbours, thus letting you create a child, add some
tags, and then just keep creating children which inherit those same
tags. Then when you filter by tag, you'll get all the children items,
too..

> Tags filtering doesn't appear to work across Shadow files even though
> the tag database is "global".

	correct; tags are global -- you use the same tags across
files. The filtration system is not global.. little Palm's cannot really
handle giant filters very well.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Title Sort Order

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, wbornstein wrote:

> I'm new at this, but I'm having trouble with sorting.  I'm using 
> names for meetings with individuals in my agenda list.  No extra 
> characters, but they aren't soring predictably.  I've done a lot of 
> cutting and pasting to assemble this list (after importing from 
> ToDo).  Any ideas as to what I'm screwing up?
> Thanks.

	Give us some examples to work with :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:24pm
Subject: Re: DA version of SP?

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, mcmug1997 wrote:

> Will there be a DA version of SP? It will be very useful if I can see 
> SP lists and Datebk5 calendar without jumping from one application to 
> another. My SP list isn't really big, but the save time is now 
> getting noticeable. I don't think SP can hook to the DB5 split 
> screen, but a DA popup will be very nice. 

	Palm OS is essentially not multi-tasking; splicing into
DateBk[45]'s split screen is more or less impossible (its possible, but
woudl be extremely inelegant and clumsy). A DA Shadow owuld be uncool, as
Shadow is not a "tiny" applciation like DA's need to be.

	It would be pretty easy to make a little Shadow Viewer DA that
just showed Shadow files or whatever. Shadow's data formats are published
and on my website, so folks are welcome to do such a thing.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: bdickenson_98a  <rdickens@b...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 4:33pm
Subject: Re: tags and linked shadow files

Jeff, 

So (if I understand what you are saying), the whole project w/file-
linked multiple subprojects strategy is (and will remain) invalid if 
I want to use tag filtering to get at items in a file-linked 
subproject from the main project ?


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, bdickenson_98a wrote:
> 
> > I just started experimenting with tags.  In the past I've used
> > multiple shadow files for various projects and linked them all
> > together with file links from a "master" project.  (Some of the 
sub-
> > projects can get pretty big.)  What I'd like to be able to 
accomplish
> > is set tag-level filters from my master project and have the
> > appropriate tasks from the linked sub-projects be shown in the 
master.  
> > (Tagging the single line file reference with all the tags 
referenced
> > in the subproject is not a feasible solution here)  That way my 
master
> > project is the control center for all the detailed subprojects 
and I
> > can get the right info by defining/applying the right tag filters 
in
> > the master.
> 
> 	I will be adding some options so that creating new items 
copies
> the tags of its neighbours, thus letting you create a child, add 
some
> tags, and then just keep creating children which inherit those same
> tags. Then when you filter by tag, you'll get all the children 
items,
> too..
> 
> > Tags filtering doesn't appear to work across Shadow files even 
though
> > the tag database is "global".
> 
> 	correct; tags are global -- you use the same tags across
> files. The filtration system is not global.. little Palm's cannot 
really
> handle giant filters very well.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: madmaxmedia  <madmaxmedia@y...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:09pm
Subject: Info Select - a cool desktop organizer

Hey Jeff,

Have you ever checked out Info Select from www.miclog.com? It's a 
pretty great program that is more of a information organizer than 
Shadow which is an organizer/outline (if you get the distinction.) 
But I find myself using them in similar ways. I've pretty much 
settled on Shadow Desktop (even with its current limitations), 
because of the great PDA program. Info Select actually has a Palm 
version that syncs, but it's not that well implemented yet.

I just wanted to bring it up as it may give you some feature ideas 
for Shadow Desktop (whether it's the next version or version 6.0!) 
One of the best features of Info Select is its awesomely robust 
search engine. You type in letters and Info Select gives you the 
number of hits as you type. So you can keep typing (or deleting) 
terms until you reach an adequate level of selectivity. There are 
some other cool feature as well (and some that would be totally 
inappropriate for Shadow.)

Just thought I'd pass it along-

Thanks,
Steve

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: tags and linked shadow files

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, bdickenson_98a wrote:

> So (if I understand what you are saying), the whole project w/file-
> linked multiple subprojects strategy is (and will remain) invalid if 
> I want to use tag filtering to get at items in a file-linked 
> subproject from the main project ?

	At this time there is no plan for the handheld to view data from
multiple files at the same time; I do plan on adding more linking between
files (with synch), and easier to jump between files, but having one view
showing multiple files content isn't anytime soon. The desktop may make
this easier.. ie: The desktop can open any number of files already, and I
may make it have a "umbrealla view" to show linked obejcts together.. we
shall see.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Info Select - a cool desktop organizer

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, madmaxmedia wrote:

> Have you ever checked out Info Select from www.miclog.com? It's a
> pretty great program that is more of a information organizer than
> Shadow which is an organizer/outline (if you get the distinction.)  
> But I find myself using them in similar ways. I've pretty much settled
> on Shadow Desktop (even with its current limitations), because of the
> great PDA program. Info Select actually has a Palm version that syncs,
> but it's not that well implemented yet.

	I dont' worry abuot other applications -- theres millions of them,
and I'm not interested in pickingup features that are targetted to someone
elses users (which are not likely the same identical sorts of users I
have).  I also know that you guys will no doubt inform me of every cool
feature in every other program in the world, given sufficient time :)

> I just wanted to bring it up as it may give you some feature ideas for
> Shadow Desktop (whether it's the next version or version 6.0!)  One of
> the best features of Info Select is its awesomely robust search
> engine. You type in letters and Info Select gives you the number of
> hits as you type. So you can keep typing (or deleting)  terms until
> you reach an adequate level of selectivity. There are some other cool
> feature as well (and some that would be totally inappropriate for
> Shadow.)

	I envision Shadow Desktop to have a kill search function ni time
:)

> Just thought I'd pass it along-

	Keep 'em coming :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: wbornstein  <wbornstein@a...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Title Sort Order

Actually, I'm sorting on tags.  So, I have names--e.g., Dee, Babs, 
Patsy, Sherri, CSSCo, Division.  When I sort in ascending order, I 
get Sherri>Patsy>Division>CSSCo>Babs>Dee.  I suspect that its some 
simple user error--as I said, I'm new at Shadow.
Thanks.
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, wbornstein wrote:
> 
> > I'm new at this, but I'm having trouble with sorting.  I'm using 
> > names for meetings with individuals in my agenda list.  No extra 
> > characters, but they aren't soring predictably.  I've done a lot 
of 
> > cutting and pasting to assemble this list (after importing from 
> > ToDo).  Any ideas as to what I'm screwing up?
> > Thanks.
> 
> 	Give us some examples to work with :)
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: wbornstein  <wbornstein@a...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:29pm
Subject: Purge and archive completed tasks

Is there a way to purge and archive completed (checked) tasks?
Thanks.
Bill

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Title Sort Order

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, wbornstein wrote:

> Actually, I'm sorting on tags.  So, I have names--e.g., Dee, Babs, 
> Patsy, Sherri, CSSCo, Division.  When I sort in ascending order, I 
> get Sherri>Patsy>Division>CSSCo>Babs>Dee.  I suspect that its some 
> simple user error--as I said, I'm new at Shadow.

	Remember that sortnig by tags means that it *groups* by tag, it
doesn't actually sort the tags alphabetically.. it only guarantees that
all items of the ame tag are together.

	So you could create tags "one, "two", "three", and sortnig by tag
could end up:

two
two
two
one
one
one
three

	The actual sort order used is usually the tags in order by tag
creation time, but it needn't be..

	I may make tags sortable in the future, but right now they aer
groupable only.

		jeff

> Thanks.
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, wbornstein wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm new at this, but I'm having trouble with sorting.  I'm using 
> > > names for meetings with individuals in my agenda list.  No extra 
> > > characters, but they aren't soring predictably.  I've done a lot 
> of 
> > > cutting and pasting to assemble this list (after importing from 
> > > ToDo).  Any ideas as to what I'm screwing up?
> > > Thanks.
> > 
> > 	Give us some examples to work with :)
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 27, 2002 7:34pm
Subject: Re: Purge and archive completed tasks

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, wbornstein wrote:

> Is there a way to purge and archive completed (checked) tasks?

	I've not done it in ages, but a Delete All Checked shoudl give you
the Archive option. When you Archiev things, they get sent to the
_Archive_ file (in Unfiled), and flagged with where they came from.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: alsasaus  <hrm-fan@l...>
Date: Wed Aug 28, 2002 0:22am
Subject: Integrating Shadow w/ Datebk5

I have used both programs for a year now. I do use Datebk5 A LOT more 
though for my daily schedules. In Datebk5, I don't have any ToDo's 
appear on my list together with appointments. I use a key press to go 
to Datebk5's ToDo screen. I make full use of the appointments' screen 
though. Thus, my typical day would look like this:

(Float)Call Jason regarding job application

7:00 Get up, work out (daily repeating event, I mark it off, it gets 
hidden and goes to the History database which I empty about twice a 
month)

7:20 Shower, get ready for work (also repeating daily)

8:00 Get to work, check e-mail, talk to boss (same)

....


12:00 Lunch 

etc.

Anything that I need to remember to do - I just whip out the stylus, 
open Clie NR (the Palm I use), press new (it's set to new float in 
the preferences), write the reminder (I tried BugMe before, but I am 
now pretty fast with graffiti and NR's keyboard - and it's more 
legible when it's already typed).

So, now on to ShadowPlan - I do have the latest version (2.5). I have 
some lists I made and downloaded. But I would like to be able to 
learn to utilize ShadowPlan's power even more. I do have the 90+ page 
manual printed out and almost spent the whole Saturday just studying 
it and playing with Shadow (thank you, Jeff). 

I would welcome any suggestions members here my have regarding how I 
can better utilize ShadowPlan and link items with Datebk5's 
apponitment page (not necessarily just ToDo's - I do have the 
ShadowHack and Megawicki, but I haven't mastered them yet. :( Takes 
too much time and patience though it's worth it, I am sure.) 

I know this topic has been probably discussed here numerous times. I 
just want to hear of any new, unuasual or very simply (yet useful) 
uses of both programs used together.

Thanks

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Wed Aug 28, 2002 0:31am
Subject: Re: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

David Allen - "Have one planner, just one planner, and take it every 
were"

Having one Outline is very similar. The outline contains multiple lists.

It gets sort of grey with multiple outline.   Having done it both ways; 
one big list works best; and with an OverClocked NR70 it's not all the 
bad. (Benchmark says I'm 550% faster than a Palm Vx)  :)

On Tuesday, August 27, 2002, at 09:01  AM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>
>> I tried the one file approach with tags for context and time
>> required etc. but one list gets too un-wieldy after a while.
>
> 	yeah; seems ilke keeping multiple lists (as designed :) is the way
> to go; tis just so tempting now to start collapsing them. I think the 
> wya
> to go is to mayeb collapse soem related lists, but dont' (as usual) get
> carried away :)
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche


  ----------




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 28, 2002 0:35am
Subject: Sorting with .. symbols

If you have this list:

A
B
@C
@D
E

	If you perform a title sort ascending, should it turn out like:

A, B, @C, @D, E

	or..

A, B, E, @C, @D (or @C, @D, A, B, E)

	The question is.. should the symbols be ignored for alpha sorting
or sorted on their own merits?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:03am
Subject: Re: Re: Kicking it up a notch..

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Bob Pankratz wrote:

> David Allen - "Have one planner, just one planner, and take it every
> were"

	I learnt that one; I had a Newton (lots of different Newtons).
That was a *great* machine (still is, in many ways). But I found it just
too brick to carry around.. I'd have it in a hip bag or puch, and people
would look oddly my way, and in the end I just stopped having it
everywhere. Havign a PAlm in your pocket, all the time (except weddings,
church, formal events :) is required.. or just don't bother, as you're
only half using it :)

> Having one Outline is very similar. The outline contains multiple
> lists.
> 
> It gets sort of grey with multiple outline.  Having done it both ways;  
> one big list works best; and with an OverClocked NR70 it's not all the
> bad. (Benchmark says I'm 550% faster than a Palm Vx)  :)

	Woot! :)

	I'm not worried about speed (of application); Shadow is pretty
feisty even under the roughest conditions, IMHO. I'm just debating
clumsiness, setup, etc. I invented this sucker, but that doesn't mean I've
used it as much as half you guys ;) (Really, we need a pool of
experience; no one person has tried it all!)

	I'm thinking of collapsing similar projects, and ltos of small
projects; leave only the largest projects out. I dislike the inconsistency
(I prefer all or nothing, to make it easier to implicitly know where the
data is), but I think my brain will be trainable to know that project X
and Y is in file X/Y, and everythign else is in project Z. We'll see :)

	If you're interested in alphas, shadow-test is going through
two-tap-tagging, datebook origin stamp, and other minor things right
now.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: mzehner2000  <matt_zehner@p...>
Date: Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:04am
Subject: Re: Sorting with .. symbols

Jeff, I know a lot of us GTD-ers have gotten used to using the "@" to 
guarantee that an item will sort to the top of a list (e.g., I know 
it works in for folder names in Windows Explorer and the Outlook 
Inbox, and maybe for Notes too?).  So I for one would hope your 
example below would sort as @C, @D, A, B, C, D, E, etc.  And I would 
want "@@C" to come before all of them.

David Allen uses "@" as his primary example of special sort 
characters, though he also says to find out which characters work in 
the program you are using - so I think the most important thing is if 
you could just let us know what will work consistently. 

While we're on the sorting subject, I'd like to put in another plug 
for alphabetical sorting of tags.  Sorting by tag creation time only 
seems helpful if you always know ahead of time what your superset 
needs to be, which for me at least isn't very often.

cheers,
matt zehner

> 	If you perform a title sort ascending, should it turn out 
like:
> 
> A, B, @C, @D, E
> 
> 	or..
> 
> A, B, E, @C, @D (or @C, @D, A, B, E)
> 
> 	The question is.. should the symbols be ignored for alpha 
sorting
> or sorted on their own merits?
> 
> 		jeff

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:25am
Subject: Re: Re: Sorting with .. symbols

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, mzehner2000 wrote:

> Jeff, I know a lot of us GTD-ers have gotten used to using the "@" to
> guarantee that an item will sort to the top of a list (e.g., I know it
> works in for folder names in Windows Explorer and the Outlook Inbox,
> and maybe for Notes too?).  So I for one would hope your example below
> would sort as @C, @D, A, B, C, D, E, etc.  And I would want "@@C" to
> come before all of them.

	Ahh, right. Thatsd what I was forgetting. I knew I had to do it
that way for some reason :P

	(Current alpha ignores symbols :)

	OKay, so if you have @ and #.. do you care if @#@# occurs, or need
it be @@@@###? :)

> David Allen uses "@" as his primary example of special sort
> characters, though he also says to find out which characters work in
> the program you are using - so I think the most important thing is if
> you could just let us know what will work consistently.

	I'll make it work @@@### and be done with it.

> While we're on the sorting subject, I'd like to put in another plug
> for alphabetical sorting of tags.  Sorting by tag creation time only
> seems helpful if you always know ahead of time what your superset
> needs to be, which for me at least isn't very often.

	Sorting by tag content is very slow (ie: The tag needs to be
looked up each time, among other things going on with them). ITs on my
list to meditate on..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_