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6701

From: jhburns8  <epelle1@a...>
Date: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:39am
Subject: Desktop Update

 
Jeff,
How are the desktop enhancements coming along?
I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would appreciate an update 
from you.
Thanks for a great product.
John
6703

From: Chris  <chris@p...>
Date: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:03pm
Subject: Shadow DTD

 
I didn't see anybody reply to you on the shadow-discuss list.

You can find a DTD here:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-developer/shadow-dtd.xml

-- 
"[A] Genuinely skillful use of obscenities is uniformly absent on the 
Internet." -Karl Kleinpaste
6704

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Aug 11, 2002 8:03pm
Subject: Re: progress and checkbox

 
On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, mcmug1997 wrote:

> When I was reading the manual, I got the impression that the %
> progress and the checkbox are somehow linked. Checked implies 100% 
> and 100% implies checked.
> 
> I boldly remove the checkbox from view and update the progress bar 
> instead. Since my filter hides completed items, I was surprised when 
> the item didn't disappear on 100%.
> 
> Turns out that only half of the statement above is correct. Setting 
> 100% doesn't mark the checkbox. 
> 
> Or have I missed a preference option?

	You are correct. We don't yet have the concept of "not valid" or
"not a number", so we can't set the %age to "n/a". So.. when you check, it
becomes valued at 100%. Uncheck and it returns to what it was prior to
100%. Keen.

	Set it to 100%, and the check is implied? Then.. if you uncheck,
what happens to the %age? Shoudl it go to 50, 0, or 100? Really, we want
it to go to "n/a" so that it nolonger counts. That'll come eventually.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6705

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Aug 11, 2002 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Update

 
On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, jhburns8 wrote:

> How are the desktop enhancements coming along? I'm sure that I'm not
> the only one who would appreciate an update from you.

	They're coming. I've had a lot of delays this summer, outside of
my control, so I'm behind.. but such is life I guess :) And being summer,
the wife has me painting the house a lot, too ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6706

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Aug 11, 2002 8:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: ShadowPlan too much of a good thing...

 
On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, veb8 wrote:

> Please understand that even though Bonsai's desktop is alot better 
> than Shadow's (I think you readily ackowledge that)because the palm 
> side of Shadow is so superior to the Bonsai Palm Software, I have no 
> regrets about a permanent switch from Bonai to Shadow.  So you will 
> not be receiving a "I'm leaving" kind of post:))from me.  But I 
> strongly urge you not to lose sight of the fact that once you get 
> back to the development side of things, in my opinion, this needs to 
> be your number one priority as it is not a case of "This would be 
> nice to have" but a case of fixing something that isn't working 
> properly for several people.

	Fear not; there is no loss of focus from me. Its disheartening for
me to always be saying "thats cool, but will have to wait until I do some
desktop stuff", but it has to be done, and I can always point to the group
here and say "ask them" :) Bonsai has a better desktop for sure.. but
thats all they've got, and they're moving pretty slowly so they'll lose
that race too eventually. But really, we have a different focus -- they're
good folks too, and they do good work. Just different work.. people can
use their tool or mine. I'm not insecure :) (They are insecure, mind you,
but they've got more people to pay so they worry more :P)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6707

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 2:32am
Subject: Re: auto refiltering

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > However if the filter criteria is about tags, and you update the 
> > tags, the items won't disappear. I need to go to filter manager 
> > to reapply the filter to make it go away.
> 
> 	You likely just need to get the screen redrawn; not the filter
> manager specifically at all.
> 
> 	It does sound like a bug, however. How are you updating the
> tags.. the tag column, Remove Tag, that sort of thing?

I add a tag using popup, ie click the tag column of the entry and 
select add tag. Although the filter requires the tag to be absent The 
entry stays there. It stays after a full screen scroll, or a resort 
(by clicking the top of the priority column).

My filter says tag-asso false or tag-asso A or tag-asso B or... That 
is, it lists a handful of tags it accepts, but also accepts entries 
without any tags.
6708

From: DedePol  <kmurray@m...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 7:38am
Subject: Tag categories

 
I do feel this might be a silly question, but is there a reason why i 
can't use the tag categories in Link Manager. I can assign categories 
to tags in the Tag Manager, but when i try to sort tags by categories 
through the Link Manager, it says that this feature is not yet 
available. I haven't seen any reference to this absence in the 
documentation for 2.5, which is the version i am using.
Thanks
Kevin
__________________________________________________

Forecast for Melbourne Issued at 0505 on Monday the 12th of August 
2002
Showers developing later this morning with local hail and thunder 
during the afternoon and evening.  Fresh northwesterly wind slowly 
turning cold squally west to southwesterly this afternoon. Max 13
6709

From: pfieldho_99  <pfieldho_99@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 4:16pm
Subject: Re: hot sync crash

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "mr_hank_01" <mr_hank_01@y...> wrote:
> I too have experienced a crash or lock up during hotsync with the 
> Shadow program.  The file that it stops on typically experiences a 
> data loss.  In one case, the file is unaccessible on the HH.
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> >   Also, any timeframe on the conduit bug fix?  Due to repeated 
> hanging 
> >   synx i've (reluctantly)abandoned the DT til the conduit is 
fixed. 
> >   While this is reportedly rare, it seems that those who have 
been 
> >   fortunate enough to experience it, experience it often, and 
have 
> >   suffered data loss. 
> >

You might try the solution that works for me. It is spelled out in 
message # 6673.
6710

From: fiatspider72  <jphillips@p...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 5:43pm
Subject: Launching ActionNames Cointacts from Shadow

 
Jeff -

I know that you are focusing on the desktop at this point and
generally do not make changes to Shadow for integration with other
specific software, but I thought I would bring this to light for you.

I do know that Shadow plays great with AN in launching todos and
appointments and realize that you had to do some special "things" to
accomodate this.  As you are well aware, the contact launching has
never worked well when doing "goto's" with AN. :-(

While in the Iambic forums, I located a thread that was replied to by
an Iambic engineer that explains how goto's work inside of AN: 
   http://makeashorterlink.com/?G18D32F71
IIRC this was the information you said you needed if you where to
implement special goto's for AN.

Just an FYI for when serious work begins on the Shadow HH again

 - Jeramy
6711

From: fiatspider72  <jphillips@p...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 5:46pm
Subject: Re: Launching ActionNames Contacts from Shadow

 
You would think that I would be able to spell "contacts"...  [:-\]

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "fiatspider72" <jphillips@p...> wrote:
> Jeff -
> 
> I know that you are focusing on the desktop at this point and
> generally do not make changes to Shadow for integration with other
> specific software, but I thought I would bring this to light for you.
> 
> I do know that Shadow plays great with AN in launching todos and
> appointments and realize that you had to do some special "things" to
> accomodate this.  As you are well aware, the contact launching has
> never worked well when doing "goto's" with AN. :-(
> 
> While in the Iambic forums, I located a thread that was replied to by
> an Iambic engineer that explains how goto's work inside of AN: 
>    http://makeashorterlink.com/?G18D32F71
> IIRC this was the information you said you needed if you where to
> implement special goto's for AN.
> 
> Just an FYI for when serious work begins on the Shadow HH again
> 
>  - Jeramy
6712

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 8:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: auto refiltering

 
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, mcmug1997 wrote:

> select add tag. Although the filter requires the tag to be absent The 
> entry stays there. It stays after a full screen scroll, or a resort 
> (by clicking the top of the priority column).
> 
> My filter says tag-asso false or tag-asso A or tag-asso B or... That 
> is, it lists a handful of tags it accepts, but also accepts entries 
> without any tags.

	Yep, okay a filter recalc issue for sure; you can use the [F]
remove/add (couple taps only) to get what you need until I fix it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6713

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 8:41pm
Subject: Re: Tag categories

 
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, DedePol wrote:

> I do feel this might be a silly question, but is there a reason why i
> can't use the tag categories in Link Manager. I can assign categories
> to tags in the Tag Manager, but when i try to sort tags by categories
> through the Link Manager, it says that this feature is not yet
> available. I haven't seen any reference to this absence in the
> documentation for 2.5, which is the version i am using.

	Tag categories are usable in the Tag Manager and in the Tag
Column, but not yet in the link manager. Just got short of time; it'll get
implemented.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6714

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Launching ActionNames Cointacts from Shadow

 
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:

> I know that you are focusing on the desktop at this point and
> generally do not make changes to Shadow for integration with other
> specific software, but I thought I would bring this to light for you.
> 
> I do know that Shadow plays great with AN in launching todos and
> appointments and realize that you had to do some special "things" to
> accomodate this.  As you are well aware, the contact launching has
> never worked well when doing "goto's" with AN. :-(
> 
> While in the Iambic forums, I located a thread that was replied to by
> an Iambic engineer that explains how goto's work inside of AN: 
>    http://makeashorterlink.com/?G18D32F71
> IIRC this was the information you said you needed if you where to
> implement special goto's for AN.

	I think it attempts this already, but I'll have to check.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6715

From: fehrmantool  <fehrmantool@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:17pm
Subject: Find & Replace in my Project Template

 
I use a standard outline, somewhat large, as a template file for each 
project that I start.  I duplicate that template then modify the file 
to set it up for each project.

My problem is that this standard template has many areas where I need 
to modify the "Job Number" or "Project Name", etc.  

What is a quick way to do a "find & replace" inside an outline??  I 
figure other project planners must have the same problem and there is 
probably an easy way to deal with it???

Thanks,
Eric Fehrman
6716

From: tsuchy  <tsuchy@y...>
Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 11:29pm
Subject: Re: Find & Replace in my Project Template

 
I don't think there's any way to do this in any outliner without
external apps, as far as i know..

One way to do it for a Shadow outline would be:

- Export the Template to a Memo
- Find/Replace all relevant items
- Import back into Shadow

use ReplaceDA (by Ei Mom, search for ReplaceDA on palmgear.com) to do
a bunch of replacements like that; it's freeware, but you'll need a DA
launcher (i recommend EasyLaunch, which requires a hack launcher (i
recommend X-Master, which is freeware), and is freeware), it has
"Replace All" which is very useful.

ReplaceDA won't work in any outline because of the way PalmOS deals
with inputs (they don't exist until selected), so even if Shadow had
in-place edits, you could only do one at a time anyway.

This makes a strong case for keeping templates exported in Memopad and
importing altered ones as needed.

SP would have to have a Search/Replace somehow built-in for this to
work, and it's probably not that high of a priority. Of course, no
other outliner does this (as far as i know), so this could be yet
another opportunity for Shadow Plan to blow other outliners away,
which it already does, by far.

Tom!
6717

From: Heather Buchman  <hbuchman@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:52am
Subject: sever broken links not working

 
I'm using Shadow 2.5 on my Handspring Visor, and have a file with various 
links to the built in ToDo database.  I purge completed tasks from within 
ToDo regularly to keep the database size small, but leave them in my 
outline on Shadow.

I'm getting the message that some links have been severed and do I want to 
sever the broken links.  I always choose to do so when this happens, but as 
of this evening whenever I reopen this same file, it gives me the same 
message even though there have been no more deletions.  In the past the 
option to sever the broken links has worked, this time it's not.

I've tried reinstalling Shadow on the Visor, that hasn't changed 
anything.  If anyone has suggestions on what to try next, I'd appreciate 
your emailing me privately, as I don't log on to this forum.

Otherwise I'm delighted with the flexibility of ShadowPlan, in particular 
the new filters and tags - very impressive!

Many thanks -
Heather
6718

From: mgoglio  <marco.goglio@t...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:57am
Subject: More Tag Preferences

 
I'm using Shadow 2.5 and I do an intesive use of Tag, so I have a 
feature request for handheld and Desktop:
- allow both general and List based Tag;
- adding a Icon to the Tag (So in a Spreadsheet-like View we can have 
three or four Icon-Tag showed with improvement of utilization).

In HH only:
- under the [F] menu the possibility of a quick list to choose a 
filter (I have four filter that are the most used.. and only two of 
them are applicable with a view.. )
- a speed way of adding tags to an item, like the menu of the tag 
column even this column is hidden.

Visor Platinum
OS 3.5.2.H1.5 Italian
Memory: 3951 of 7936
Shadow 2.5
A lot of HACH

Marco Goglio
6719

From: carrdwight  <carrdwight@y...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:41am
Subject: Undo?

 
Greetings,

I am newly registered and am really getting into setting up my 
lists, etc...  But since they are all new, I am moving them around a 
lot and have bumped into some problems or challenges or :

First, the drag and drop seems really sensitive on my M515.  I end 
up losing items all the time, and I have to look through my whole 
outline to try to find it, if I can remember the item that got moved 
at all.  Is there any way to undo the move?

Second, I am using the power of multi-pasting to move items around 
and about half the time I am too stupid to remember to clear the 
clip board before pasting and I sometimes end up with two or three 
copies of the same thing and then several combined clips and past 
the whole group two or three different places.  Again, any chance of 
an undo?  

What about a find duplicates?  I could use the find to find the 
duplicates, but again, about half the time, I don't realize I have 
duplicated the items more than once until they are in several 
places, and then I don't remember which items are where, etc...

Thanks,
Dwight...
6720

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Find & Replace in my Project Template

 
The quickest way to do this in Shadow is to use the built-in Find function.
You'll then have to go in to the details to actually change the project #.
But then you can do "find next" by using "shortcut G".

Once Jeff starts working on the desktop, hopefully one of the things he'll
add is "find and replace". Seems like the logical place for it. Hope this
helps.

Scott
6721

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 2:05pm
Subject: Re: sever broken links not working

 
Heather,

To clear the broken links message you have to actually do something within
the list to cause it to be resaved. You should be able to just open any
detail record and tap "OK", and then close the list. Hope this helps.

Scott
6722

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 2:13pm
Subject: Re: Undo?

 
In the List menu there is a "revert to last" option (shortcut R) and a
"save now" option (shortcut U). If you save often, you can use the revert
to last function to "undo" recent changes. But look this up in the
reference guide to see warnings about how to use this function. Hope this
helps.

Scott
6723

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02pm
Subject: Re: sever broken links not working

 
On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Heather Buchman wrote:

> I'm using Shadow 2.5 on my Handspring Visor, and have a file with various 
> links to the built in ToDo database.  I purge completed tasks from within 
> ToDo regularly to keep the database size small, but leave them in my 
> outline on Shadow.
> 
> I'm getting the message that some links have been severed and do I
> want to sever the broken links.  I always choose to do so when this
> happens, but as of this evening whenever I reopen this same file, it
> gives me the same message even though there have been no more
> deletions.  In the past the option to sever the broken links has
> worked, this time it's not.

	The seever won't "Take" until you "change" something in the file
that is concrete. So, when the big box comes up, hit Sever, but then open
details on an item and hit OK, and then close the list, and the sever
should occur.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6724

From: guilapbr  <guilherme.pedrosa@i...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:37pm
Subject: Re: ShadowPlan too much of a good thing... (zoom)

 
Jeff,

I'd like to make just one little comment on what you have said 
about zoom and unzoom:

> when zoomed, you can zoom in more, or unzoom. So multiple 
buttons are
> needed, and multiple grafitti strokes, and it would lead to 
confusion :/
> Its also only 2 taps to any of these options, in the top right 
popmenus.

When you want to go up just a level, you must select "view" (1 
tap), "unzoom" (1 more tap), select the parent level you were (1 
or more taps - sometimes it closes all the tree), select "view" 
(1 more tap), "zoom to level" (1 more tap). So, this takes at 
least 5 taps (or is there a faster way? let me know that), while 
there's a specific button to do this in Progect, for example.

I know you're busy in the desktop (I agree it's the most urgent), 
but do you think that a request to new Shadow (Palm) versions 
could be put an "Up a Level" item in "View" menu?

Thanks for your attention,
Guilherme.
6725

From: bblackmoor  <bblackmoor@b...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Drifting structure - Loss of enumeration

 
"pfieldho_99" <pfieldho_99@y...> wrote:
> 
> I too have experienced this restructuring of a list that 
> several have spoken of recently... Items that were siblings 
> suddenly and unexplicably become children of their previous 
> peers.

I'm seeing this, too. (I'm new to this list, so forgive me if this bug
has been discussed to death.)

Also, there are duplicate items being created. What begins as:

Entertainment
\-Movies
   |-Star Wars
   |  |-Harrison Ford
   |  |-Mark Hamill
   |  \-Carrie Fisher
   \-Indiana Jones
      \-Harrison Ford

Becomes like this:

Entertainment
|-Movies
|-Movies
\-Movies
   |-Star Wars
   |-Star Wars
   |-Star Wars
   |-Star Wars
   |  |-Harrison Ford
   |  |-Mark Hamill
   |  \-Carrie Fisher
   |-Indiana Jones
   \-Indiana Jones
      \-Harrison Ford

Is that clear? You may have to use a monospaced font to make sense of it.

This is really getting tiresome. At least Shadow isn't crashing my
Palm like Progect did, but it'd be nice of the data would stay where I
put it.

I don't even use the "linking" functions of Shadow -- I wouldn't dare.
I'd have to see it do just basic outlining reliably before I'd be
willing to experiment with more complex functions.

bblackmoor@b...
2002-08-13
6726

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 5:48pm
Subject: Re: sever broken links not working

 
I think this dialog should say something like 'sever broken links at next 
save?'  This would make it a lot clearer.


>From: smasters@a...
>Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] sever broken links not working
>Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:05:41 -0500
>
>
>Heather,
>
>To clear the broken links message you have to actually do something within
>the list to cause it to be resaved. You should be able to just open any
>detail record and tap "OK", and then close the list. Hope this helps.
>
>Scott
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
6727

From: bblackmoor  <bblackmoor@b...>
Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 6:03pm
Subject: Re: Drifting structure - Loss of enumeration

 
"bblackmoor" <bblackmoor@b...> wrote:
> 
> Also, there are duplicate items being created. What begins as:

Actually, this was an oversimplification. What I often see is this:

From:

 Entertainment
 |-1. Books
 |  |-A. Herbert, Frank
 |  |  |-a. Dune
 |  |  |-b. Dosadi Experiment
 |  |  \-c. Hellstrom's Hive
 |  \-B. Norfolk, Lawrence
 |     \-a. Lempriere's Dictinary
 \-2. Movies
    |-A. Star Wars
    |  |-a. Harrison Ford
    |  |-b. Mark Hamill
    |  \-c. Carrie Fisher
    \-B. Indiana Jones
       \-a. Harrison Ford
 
To:

 Entertainment
 |-1. Books
 |  |-A. Herbert, Frank
 |  |  |-2. Movies
 |  |  |   |- Star Wars
 |  |  |   |- Star Wars
 |  |  |   |-1. Star Wars
 |  |  |   |  |-a. Harrison Ford
 |  |  |   |  |-b. Mark Hamill
 |  |  |   |  \-c. Carrie Fisher
 |  |  |   \-B. Indiana Jones
 |  |  |       \-a. Harrison Ford
 |  |  |-a. Dune
 |  |  |-b. Dosadi Experiment
 |  |  \-c. Hellstrom's Hive
 |  |- Movies
 |  |   |-A. Star Wars
 |  |   |  |-a. Harrison Ford
 |  |   |  |-b. Mark Hamill
 |  |   |  \-c. Carrie Fisher
 |  |   \-B. Indiana Jones
 |  |      \-a. Harrison Ford
 |  |- Norfolk, Lawrence
 |  |-B. Norfolk, Lawrence
 |  |-C. Norfolk, Lawrence
 |  |- Norfolk, Lawrence
 |     \-a. Lempriere's Dictinary
 |-2. Movies
 |- Movies
 \-3. Movies
    |-A. Star Wars
    |- Star Wars
    |-B. Star Wars
    |  |-a. Harrison Ford
    |  |-b. Mark Hamill
    |  \-c. Carrie Fisher
    \-C. Indiana Jones
       \-a. Harrison Ford


You get the idea. I spend ten minutes every time I open a Shadow file
trying to figure out what it's supposed to look like, re-arranging the
misplaced items and deleting all the duplicates.

bblackmoor@b...
2002-08-13
6728

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 3:25am
Subject: Critical Path Analysis

 
Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to 
Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is the 
linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See 
http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not 
on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?

_________________________________________________
Bob Pankratz    bob@r...

Linux is only free if your time is worthless


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6729

From: llgriffll  <keith@t...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 3:55am
Subject: Re: sever broken links not working

 
Really Shadow should see those items that had links severed as 
changed...and save those at next close...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Anthony Schellenberg" 
<aschell2000@h...> wrote:
> I think this dialog should say something like 'sever broken links 
at next 
> save?'  This would make it a lot clearer.
> 
> 
> >From: smasters@a...
> >Reply-To: shadow-discuss@y...
> >To: shadow-discuss@y...
> >Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] sever broken links not working
> >Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:05:41 -0500
> >
> >
> >Heather,
> >
> >To clear the broken links message you have to actually do 
something within
> >the list to cause it to be resaved. You should be able to just 
open any
> >detail record and tap "OK", and then close the list. Hope this 
helps.
> >
> >Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: 
http://mobile.msn.com
6730

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 4:55am
Subject: Re: More Tag Preferences

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "mgoglio" <marco.goglio@t...> wrote:
> - under the [F] menu the possibility of a quick list to choose a 
> filter (I have four filter that are the most used.. and only two of 
> them are applicable with a view.. )

Yes a great idea!

> - a speed way of adding tags to an item, like the menu of the tag 
> column even this column is hidden.

I would like to see a tag menu like the C/F/V menu, with a quick list 
like you suggested for F.

Even though I view the tag column, it is a bit tedious to add tags: 
Tab column, tab add, tab catagory, then select the tag.
6731

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 7:16am
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
explain c.p.a....

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Pankratz 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 7:25 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis


  Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to 
  Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is the 
  linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See 
  http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not 
  on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?

  _________________________________________________
  Bob Pankratz  .  bob@r...

  Linux is only free if your time is worthless


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

   

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6732

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:08am
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
I too would love to see this functionality in Shadow but in the meantime
have you tried Hours?

http://hours.sourceforge.net/

Jacob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:25 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis


> Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to
> Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is the
> linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See
> http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not
> on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?
>
> _________________________________________________
> Bob Pankratz    bob@r...
>
> Linux is only free if your time is worthless
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
6733

From: Corey Colyer  <cjcolyer@i...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:52am
Subject: filtered export

 
Greetings group,

If this is covered someplace in the manual please feel free to gently point me in the direction.

Can I export a filtered list?  

I use shadow for my project planning and tracking.  Since I'm the only handheld user in my group at work, I've taken to exporting my project lists to DOC, using shadow's cool html function, and posting them in a shared directory.  Right now I export the whole list and then edit the html to eliminate things that were done in a prior period.  What I'd like to do is invoke a filter or view and export that content into memo.

It doesn't look like shadow can do this currently, and I presume it would take a lot of code to generate this kind of feature.  [I suppose the desktop is an option, but our IT folks get cranky about us installing "unsupported" software on our work machines...so I've avoided getting it]. Then again, perhaps this is already implemented and I've just missed.  No harm in asking.

Thanks in advance,

/Corey
6734

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a the ability to pre 
plan the work day base on appointment commitments. By about 8am each day 
my calendar is about set. Based On that I'm looking to have my Todos 
flow into the gaps in the schedule; giving me recommendations for the 
best things to work on when based on time available and priority.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 04:08 AM, Jacob Share wrote:

> I too would love to see this functionality in Shadow but in the meantime
> have you tried Hours?
>
> http://hours.sourceforge.net/
>
> Jacob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
> To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:25 AM
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
>
>
>> Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to
>> Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is the
>> linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See
>> http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not
>> on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?
>>
>> _________________________________________________
>> Bob Pankratz    bob@r...
>>
>> Linux is only free if your time is worthless
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6735

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:04pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
1) For any to-do item be able to indicate the minimum amount of
time required (MATR) to work on the to-do.

2) Add a new view type, or an optional mode of the day view that:

a) Notices the time gap between appointments
b) Searches for to-do's that have MATR's that fit the gaps
c) Fills each gap with the to-do that fits, and is highest in priority 
order.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 02:16 AM, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> explain c.p.a....
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Bob Pankratz
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 7:25 PM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
>
>
>   Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to
>   Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is 
> the
>   linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See
>   http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not
>   on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?
>
>   _________________________________________________
>   Bob Pankratz  .  bob@r...
>
>   Linux is only free if your time is worthless
>
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6736

From: sgarelick  <steve@g...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:42pm
Subject: Tracking project start/end dates

 
Is there any way to get Shadow to show the start date of an item 
along with the target date on the list screen? I would like to be 
able to enter in all the tasks for my projects and be able to quicky 
ascertain when each task will begin/end without having to bring up 
the details screen.
6737

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 4:47pm
Subject: Creation date bug?

 
I just realized that the Creation Date (cr) noted in an item doesn't change with a copy & paste. Is that the way it should be?

To be clearer - in some of my lists I have a templatized branch that I copy, paste and adjust accordingly. I just realized that all the items I have pasted have the cr of the original templatized branch. I'd rather the cr be the date that I pasted, in effect, the Creation Date of the adjusted item. Is this a bug? Also, the cr of these items is 1/1/04. What's up with that?

Jacob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6738

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:12pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
can't imagine many people using this concept or wanting items moved for them in this manner, as i'd prefer many other items to be taken care of before MATR is even discussed as a reality...like conduit, desktop, and many of the other additions to the handheld mentioned in the past.  sounds like something that might slow down and/or bloat the system too, which i would not desire.  if you've been reading the posts for months, it will be a while before any of the handheld suggestions are worked on again, as Jeff has the other items on his list to accomplish first.  funny the people getting the program recently come in with all these new ideas having no idea how much discussion and work has taken place thus far, as well as Jeff many times already telling us he will now be on the conduit, desktop, and various formats for months!  the program can't be everything to everyone.  my thoughts this morning without my mocha beside me!
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Pankratz 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 6:04 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis


  1) For any to-do item be able to indicate the minimum amount of
  time required (MATR) to work on the to-do.

  2) Add a new view type, or an optional mode of the day view that:

  a) Notices the time gap between appointments
  b) Searches for to-do's that have MATR's that fit the gaps
  c) Fills each gap with the to-do that fits, and is highest in priority 
  order.

  On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 02:16 AM, Kevin Giberson wrote:

  > explain c.p.a....
  >
  >   ----- Original Message -----
  >   From: Bob Pankratz
  >   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  >   Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 7:25 PM
  >   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
  >
  >
  >   Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to
  >   Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is 
  > the
  >   linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See
  >   http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not
  >   on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?
  >
  >   _________________________________________________
  >   Bob Pankratz  .  bob@r...
  >
  >   Linux is only free if your time is worthless
  >
  >
  >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  >   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
  >
  >
  >
  >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
  >
  >
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >
  Bob Pankratz
  Director of Technology Services
  Plexus Corp.
  www.plexus.com
  bob.pankratz@p...

  "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
  -- Nietzsche


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6739

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:14pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
funny, sounds like a Life Balance type of thing, which i personally hated.
don't like it doing my thinking for me!
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:53 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis


Not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a the ability to pre
plan the work day base on appointment commitments. By about 8am each day
my calendar is about set. Based On that I'm looking to have my Todos
flow into the gaps in the schedule; giving me recommendations for the
best things to work on when based on time available and priority.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 04:08 AM, Jacob Share wrote:

> I too would love to see this functionality in Shadow but in the meantime
> have you tried Hours?
>
> http://hours.sourceforge.net/
>
> Jacob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
> To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:25 AM
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
>
>
>> Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to
>> Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is the
>> linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See
>> http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not
>> on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?
>>
>> _________________________________________________
>> Bob Pankratz    bob@r...
>>
>> Linux is only free if your time is worthless
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
6740

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:50pm
Subject: Jeff: Is tracking by time coming up ?, let me explain via a GTD post I found

 
It would be neat to able to have an option on the link manager where 
one could pick the duration of time, for example, picking 30min.,45 
min., 1hr ,etc. etc. or even # of days and minutes. I stumbled on to 
a great article on the David Allen site that I want to share with all 
of you and gather some feedback it deals with prioritizing and time 
factoring.

Posted by: Chris Murtland 	Posted 08-12-2002 02:05	
Re: Deadlines 
 
I struggled with the time element too, at first. It is 
oversimplifying to say that the only actions with a time element go 
on the hard landscape, or calendar. There are plenty of actions that 
don't necessarily have a hard edge (they don't need to be done on one 
particular day) but that do need to be done BY a specific date, or 
have an increased value if they are done by a specific date. 

The illumination for me was that David doesn't suggest stopping at 
context for organizing next actions: that's just the first (and most 
important) layer of grouping. Beyond that, you can use other 
criteria: time required, priority, etc. 

What I have found useful is expanding the criteria I enter for each 
next action [note: the ease of doing this will depend somewhat on 
your technology solution for implementing GTD]. If something is a 
next action, but I'm not going to start on it until next week, I put 
a start date on it and filter out future items from my lists. I also 
enter an estimated duration for each action, so that I can quickly 
narrow down by time available on any list (if I only have 45 minutes, 
I view all items with estimated durations of 45 minutes or less). 

I also enter an amount field for every action, which is my way of 
prioritizing. This is basically the amount of money that is at stake 
if the action isn't completed - which makes more valuable items rise 
to the top (this value determined by a small business perspective - 
your value rating may be entirely different and doesn't have to be 
money). 

Finally, I don't hesitate to add a "date due" to any action. To me, 
this is different than a hard landscape date. In any case, I have 
items with the closest due date at the top of my list, then sorted by 
amount. 

I've found this approach helps me keep the time element and relative 
importance of an action in front of me. I also scan the entire 
actions list at least a couple of times a day, because often I'll 
just be in the mood to complete an item lower on the list. This may 
be a deviation from pure GTD, but I just see it as putting enough 
clues on the list to aid in my intuitive decision of which action to 
take. It does require a pretty robust technology implementation 
(Hint: Zoot + Outlook) because you have to be able to quickly and 
easily manage the additional criteria.


thanks for the feeback,

jledesma
6741

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:19pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Actually it's very much not LifeBalance;

it's very much Project Management, due date and resource availability 
based.

see: www.1soft.com and www.taskline.info

On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 12:14 PM, Earthlink wrote:

> funny, sounds like a Life Balance type of thing, which i personally 
> hated.
> don't like it doing my thinking for me!
> kevin
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
> To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
>
>
> Not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a the ability to pre
> plan the work day base on appointment commitments. By about 8am each day
> my calendar is about set. Based On that I'm looking to have my Todos
> flow into the gaps in the schedule; giving me recommendations for the
> best things to work on when based on time available and priority.
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 04:08 AM, Jacob Share wrote:
>
>> I too would love to see this functionality in Shadow but in the 
>> meantime
>> have you tried Hours?
>>
>> http://hours.sourceforge.net/
>>
>> Jacob
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
>> To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:25 AM
>> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
>>
>>
>>> Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path Analysis to
>>> Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as is 
>>> the
>>> linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  See
>>> http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, but not
>>> on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable feature set?
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________
>>> Bob Pankratz    bob@r...
>>>
>>> Linux is only free if your time is worthless
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
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>
6742

From: rvanderwoning  <rvanderwoning@y...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:20pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Earthlink" <kevin@g...> wrote:
> can't imagine many people using this concept or wanting items 
moved for them in this manner, as i'd prefer many other items to be 
taken care of before MATR is even discussed as a reality...

You'd have to throw in a poll if you want to get any reliable 
indication of how many people would want this. Your personal 
preference is no indication of that.

> funny the people getting the program recently come in with all 
these new ideas having no idea how much discussion and work has 
taken place thus far, as well as Jeff many times already telling us 
he will now be on the conduit, desktop, and various formats for 
months!  the program can't be everything to everyone.

Why is that funny? All the man did was ask if there had been any 
past discussion on this topic and if other people might find this a 
desirable option. He didn't request for it to be put in immediately 
so why the rehashing of Jeff's priority list?

I for one would find a feature like this very useful. Perhaps I'll 
wake up one day and find it in my newly downloaded Shadow version. :)

Roy.
6743

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 9:23pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Wow since that assumes evidence not in facts about me; or assumes I'm 
plan stupid; I'll suggest you have that coffee first before posting that 
I have "no idea"......

On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 12:12 PM, Earthlink wrote:

> can't imagine many people using this concept or wanting items moved for 
> them in this manner, as i'd prefer many other items to be taken care of 
> before MATR is even discussed as a reality...like conduit, desktop, and 
> many of the other additions to the handheld mentioned in the past.
> sounds like something that might slow down and/or bloat the system too, 
> which i would not desire.  if you've been reading the posts for months, 
> it will be a while before any of the handheld suggestions are worked on 
> again, as Jeff has the other items on his list to accomplish first.
>  funny the people getting the program recently come in with all these 
> new ideas having no idea how much discussion and work has taken place 
> thus far, as well as Jeff many times already telling us he will now be 
> on the conduit, desktop, and various formats for months!  the program 
> can't be everything to everyone.  my thoughts this morning without my 
> mocha beside me!
> kevin
>
6744

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:30pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
didn't mean for you to take it all those ways you mention Bob...but clearly this idea is many months away from even being considered as a possibility if you've been reading all the months of posts.  even having all this discussion now on such a new and large addition to the handheld seems like a waste of time.  not being personal, but just realistic in that i wouldn't expect anything like this to be considered until into 2003.  remember, Jeff does not have a staff like other developers that put out much less in the same period of time.  and i've had my coffee this time!  ; )
kevin
p.s.  it's "facts not in evidence"!  ; )


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Pankratz 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis


  Wow since that assumes evidence not in facts about me; or assumes I'm 
  plan stupid; I'll suggest you have that coffee first before posting that 
  I have "no idea"......

  On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 12:12 PM, Earthlink wrote:

  > can't imagine many people using this concept or wanting items moved for 
  > them in this manner, as i'd prefer many other items to be taken care of 
  > before MATR is even discussed as a reality...like conduit, desktop, and 
  > many of the other additions to the handheld mentioned in the past.
  > sounds like something that might slow down and/or bloat the system too, 
  > which i would not desire.  if you've been reading the posts for months, 
  > it will be a while before any of the handheld suggestions are worked on 
  > again, as Jeff has the other items on his list to accomplish first.
  >  funny the people getting the program recently come in with all these 
  > new ideas having no idea how much discussion and work has taken place 
  > thus far, as well as Jeff many times already telling us he will now be 
  > on the conduit, desktop, and various formats for months!  the program 
  > can't be everything to everyone.  my thoughts this morning without my 
  > mocha beside me!
  > kevin
  >




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6745

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 10:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
as i'm reading my inbox in reverse order...i'd agree with "our" personal preferences not being a reliable indication alone, but usually if an idea is really wanted by many we hear all sorts of responses on this list requesting the addition.  i'm sure there are some that would love this idea, as well as some for about every idea you could come up with.  my comments were not intended to be personal, but to have you ask yourself realistically how many people would you benefit versus the bloat to all users.  the idea you mention takes off on a tangent from the simple concept of what Jeff has created.  simple and less bloated would seem to work best for the majority, as we've already heard complaints of it being complicated with tags and filters for some.  i'm just throwing out thoughts about overall marketability and large scale use with the idea of bloat if every idea suggested is tossed into the program.  i'm a fan of keeping the program where the options can be useful to all or most, not getting too specialized with things that bloat the program and will not be used by most.  no more from me on this topic...looking forward to the upcoming desktop and conduit releases from Jeff!  and as always Jeff, thanks.
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: rvanderwoning 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:20 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis


  --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Earthlink" <kevin@g...> wrote:
  > can't imagine many people using this concept or wanting items 
  moved for them in this manner, as i'd prefer many other items to be 
  taken care of before MATR is even discussed as a reality...

  You'd have to throw in a poll if you want to get any reliable 
  indication of how many people would want this. Your personal 
  preference is no indication of that.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6746

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:32am
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
LOL - now that was a transpose - Good catch. You do seem to be much more 
caffeine stable now. :)
With that clarifcation, my reason for posting was to see what other 
might think for the usefulness. Shadow is remarkably prepare to do CPA 
because of all the other data it has. This opens a number of posibilites:
1) add it to shadow
2) use the open shadow standards to develop it
3) integrate it with a third part and app and like via the datebook.

So far (1) would be a long wait, to much else to do. (2) Could be done 
thanks to Jeff's open approach, but is there enough interest. (3) 
Someone already pointed me at www.taskline.info which works with 
outlook. I'm going to test that with shadow's link and see how it works.

I'm in the process of porting a complicate GTD method to the shadow 
platform; and CPA is the one area I haven't been able to solve on other 
palm tools; I think Shadow may just shine in that area.

PS: sorry I poked to hard at your first response; you wrote before 
coffee; I responded too close to the end of a LONG day.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 05:30 PM, Earthlink wrote:

> didn't mean for you to take it all those ways you mention Bob...but 
> clearly this idea is many months away from even being considered as a 
> possibility if you've been reading all the months of posts.  even 
> having all this discussion now on such a new and large addition to the 
> handheld seems like a waste of time.  not being personal, but just 
> realistic in that i wouldn't expect anything like this to be considered 
> until into 2003.  remember, Jeff does not have a staff like other 
> developers that put out much less in the same period of time.  and i've 
> had my coffee this time!  ; )
> kevin
> p.s.  it's "facts not in evidence"!  ; )
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Bob Pankratz
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:23 PM
>   Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
>
>
>   Wow since that assumes evidence not in facts about me; or assumes I'm
>   plan stupid; I'll suggest you have that coffee first before posting 
> that
>   I have "no idea"......
>
>   On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 12:12 PM, Earthlink wrote:
>
>> can't imagine many people using this concept or wanting items moved for
>> them in this manner, as i'd prefer many other items to be taken care of
>> before MATR is even discussed as a reality...like conduit, desktop, and
>> many of the other additions to the handheld mentioned in the past.
>> sounds like something that might slow down and/or bloat the system too,
>> which i would not desire.  if you've been reading the posts for months,
>> it will be a while before any of the handheld suggestions are worked on
>> again, as Jeff has the other items on his list to accomplish first.
>>  funny the people getting the program recently come in with all these
>> new ideas having no idea how much discussion and work has taken place
>> thus far, as well as Jeff many times already telling us he will now be
>> on the conduit, desktop, and various formats for months!  the program
>> can't be everything to everyone.  my thoughts this morning without my
>> mocha beside me!
>> kevin
>>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6747

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:38am
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Just to note that wasn't me that responded....

But to this thought thread, I think the reason it's good to talk about 
these ideas now is for the very fact that the interface has drifted. 
Jeff honestly acknowledges that the GUI has to be revisited and cleaned 
up eventually. The time to think about this that and the other thing is 
before re-tooling; that we you don't re-tool and then start hacking and 
messing it all up again. Instead you plan ahead and even if you don't 
implement you leave accommodation for the future.

I liken it to the 1 year polite argument with CESD over DB4/5 
preferences.  I don't think I ever missed a chance to point out 
everytime he said, "I can't because the preferences design doesn't have 
room" finally I think when he'd snuffed 20 easy feature because of that 
statement he relented and modified it. The busy programmer doesn't 
always have time to have all the ideas and track all the facts. That's 
more suited for us annoying users. :) :)



On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 05:54 PM, Earthlink wrote:

> as i'm reading my inbox in reverse order...i'd agree with "our" 
> personal preferences not being a reliable indication alone, but usually 
> if an idea is really wanted by many we hear all sorts of responses on 
> this list requesting the addition.  i'm sure there are some that would 
> love this idea, as well as some for about every idea you could come up 
> with.  my comments were not intended to be personal, but to have you 
> ask yourself realistically how many people would you benefit versus the 
> bloat to all users.  the idea you mention takes off on a tangent from 
> the simple concept of what Jeff has created.  simple and less bloated 
> would seem to work best for the majority, as we've already heard 
> complaints of it being complicated with tags and filters for some.  i'm 
> just throwing out thoughts about overall marketability and large scale 
> use with the idea of bloat if every idea suggested is tossed into the 
> program.  i'm a fan of keeping the program where the options can be 
> useful to all or most, not getting too specialized with things that 
> bloat the program and will not be used by most.  no more from me on 
> this topic...looking forward to the upcoming desktop and conduit 
> releases from Jeff!  and as always Jeff, thanks.
> kevin
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: rvanderwoning
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 2:20 PM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis
>
>
>   --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Earthlink" <kevin@g...> wrote:
>> can't imagine many people using this concept or wanting items
>   moved for them in this manner, as i'd prefer many other items to be
>   taken care of before MATR is even discussed as a reality...
>
>   You'd have to throw in a poll if you want to get any reliable
>   indication of how many people would want this. Your personal
>   preference is no indication of that.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6748

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:08am
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> Just to note that wasn't me that responded....
> 
> But to this thought thread, I think the reason it's good to talk
about 
> these ideas now is for the very fact that the interface has
drifted. 
> Jeff honestly acknowledges that the GUI has to be revisited and
cleaned 
> up eventually. The time to think about this that and the other
thing is 
> before re-tooling; that we you don't re-tool and then start hacking
and 
> messing it all up again. Instead you plan ahead and even if you
don't 
> implement you leave accommodation for the future.
> 
<snip>

Don't mean to back into this one guys, but I would think this is not
only timely but a good idea for a feature...

... but for the *desktop*.

On the practical side (and not pretending to speak for Jeff), I belive
the intent is to put the light management and data entry facilties
into the HH but leave the large sweeping activities (like this one and
other cross-item and cross-list analyses) into the desktop.

I believe this was born out by the poll that showed most people did
most substantial data entry on the desktop.  So a sort of "big action,
big machine ... small action, small machine" philosophy.

After all, do you want to carry around code that would most likely
only be used a max. of once a day.  Most likely I'd do that kind of
fill once a week, only repeating for that week if something seriously
intruded on the schedule (but that's just me).

Just my 2 cents...

Ken
6749

From: bblackmoor  <bblackmoor@b...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:40am
Subject: Re: Drifting structure - Loss of enumeration

 
So what's the deal with the randomly-rearranging, spontaneously
duplicating outline items? Is there a fix? A workaround? Something?

I paid for Shadow Plan a while back, but I've only started using it
heavily recently. I would like to become dependent on it -- when it
works, it's a great help. But this bug is just too much to deal with.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

bblackmoor@b...
2002-08-14
6750

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:49am
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
well said...

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kenclatham 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:08 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis


  --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
  > Just to note that wasn't me that responded....
  > 
  > But to this thought thread, I think the reason it's good to talk
  about 
  > these ideas now is for the very fact that the interface has
  drifted. 
  > Jeff honestly acknowledges that the GUI has to be revisited and
  cleaned 
  > up eventually. The time to think about this that and the other
  thing is 
  > before re-tooling; that we you don't re-tool and then start hacking
  and 
  > messing it all up again. Instead you plan ahead and even if you
  don't 
  > implement you leave accommodation for the future.
  > 
  <snip>

  Don't mean to back into this one guys, but I would think this is not
  only timely but a good idea for a feature...

  ... but for the *desktop*.

  On the practical side (and not pretending to speak for Jeff), I belive
  the intent is to put the light management and data entry facilties
  into the HH but leave the large sweeping activities (like this one and
  other cross-item and cross-list analyses) into the desktop.

  I believe this was born out by the poll that showed most people did
  most substantial data entry on the desktop.  So a sort of "big action,
  big machine ... small action, small machine" philosophy.

  After all, do you want to carry around code that would most likely
  only be used a max. of once a day.  Most likely I'd do that kind of
  fill once a week, only repeating for that week if something seriously
  intruded on the schedule (but that's just me).

  Just my 2 cents...

  Ken


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6751

From: wvit  <wvit@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:50am
Subject: Col-bg problem

 
Hi, in the preference there is an option Col-bg. If set the row will have a 
background color. My problem is I don't like the current color (light 
blue). Can I change it, please?
6752

From: neilbothams  <neil.bothams@b...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 11:48am
Subject: Datebk5 advance; Lifebalance leadtime and Shadow dates

 
Hi

Am I missing something?  Each program seems to have its own way of 
handling deadlines and other dates on todos.

Datebk5 - each todo has a date and you can set an advance date.  Also 
tracks overdue by x days.

Lifebalance - can set a leadtime. A task appears before its deadline 
if a leadtime has been set. Also overdue flag.

Can these be exchanged in any way with Shadow dates?  As far as I can 
see only the target date is exchanged.
6753

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:20pm
Subject: Re: Datebk5 advance; Lifebalance leadtime and Shadow dates

 
Lifebalance is also being modified to honor the Advances in Datebk5 
correctly. So "advances" would be the the ones to target/integrate with 
shadow's "start date"

On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 06:48 AM, neilbothams wrote:

> Hi
>
> Am I missing something?  Each program seems to have its own way of
> handling deadlines and other dates on todos.
>
> Datebk5 - each todo has a date and you can set an advance date.  Also
> tracks overdue by x days.
>
> Lifebalance - can set a leadtime. A task appears before its deadline
> if a leadtime has been set. Also overdue flag.
>
> Can these be exchanged in any way with Shadow dates?  As far as I can
> see only the target date is exchanged.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6754

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 2:09pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "kenclatham" <clatham1@t...> wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> > Just to note that wasn't me that responded....
> > 
> > But to this thought thread, I think the reason it's good to talk
> about 
> > these ideas now is for the very fact that the interface has
> drifted. 
> > Jeff honestly acknowledges that the GUI has to be revisited and
> cleaned 
> > up eventually. The time to think about this that and the other
> thing is 
> > before re-tooling; that we you don't re-tool and then start 
hacking
> and 
> > messing it all up again. Instead you plan ahead and even if you
> don't 
> > implement you leave accommodation for the future.
> > 
> <snip>
> 
> Don't mean to back into this one guys, but I would think this is not
> only timely but a good idea for a feature...
> 
> ... but for the *desktop*.
> 
> On the practical side (and not pretending to speak for Jeff), I 
belive
> the intent is to put the light management and data entry facilties
> into the HH but leave the large sweeping activities (like this one 
and
> other cross-item and cross-list analyses) into the desktop.
> 
> I believe this was born out by the poll that showed most people did
> most substantial data entry on the desktop.  So a sort of "big 
action,
> big machine ... small action, small machine" philosophy.
> 
> After all, do you want to carry around code that would most likely
> only be used a max. of once a day.  Most likely I'd do that kind of
> fill once a week, only repeating for that week if something 
seriously
> intruded on the schedule (but that's just me).
> 
> Just my 2 cents...
> 
> Ken


I have not followed this thread closely, BUT this thread and other 
posts screaming for Desktop upgrades bug me,  WHY did you but a palm 
if you do your data entry, etc. on a desktop/laptop????  Why bother 
with a palm at all if it is only a fancy gadget to carry around? Paper 
works just as good for carrying around info created on a desktop.  

I may be in the minority (although I doubt it) but I use the HH 
exclusively to do my input etc. I use it all day, not once a day.  The 
HH side work Jeff has done has been great at adding features, although 
I agree that the UI is becoming too cluttered and the program is 
becoming complicated to use.  The manual (and the website) need 
serious updating to eliminate old stuff no longer relevant and make it 
easier to understand (maybe Jeff needs someone else to do his amnual 
for him as programmers are not always the best people to communicate 
in simple, well organized terms.)

I would strongly vote against making Shadow a 'desktop driven' piece 
of software where I need a desktop to get full usage out of it.  The 
HH should not be a 'light' version of a desktop program, It should be 
THE program with the DT useful for data entry, export to other 
programs etc.  Jeff - keep the HH focus, do not let this become DT 
behemoth!

My 2 cents - (OK maybe 2 1/2)
6755

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 2:20pm
Subject: RE: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
I understand where you're coming from, and this is an interesting
debate. You asked why someone would bother with a Palm if they do data
entry on the desktop, and there are several reasons. Nice big keyboard
and screen come to mind immediately-- it's simply easier and faster to
type things in than to Graffiti them into your Palm. I use my Palm all
day and half the night, but I use it more as an information retrieval
device than as a data entry device (except when I'm taking notes in my
grad school classes).

As far as Shadow is concerned, of course I do most of my work on the
handheld, but I think that will change once the desktop comes up to
speed. For large lists, nothing beats the ease of a keyboard. And I'm
very interested in the idea of having CPA on the desktop, as well as any
other idea that might cause bloat in the handheld version. Jeff is
remarkably democratic in his development, and might take our suggestions
into account for things that might fit better on the desktop component,
or on the handheld, or both.

But I certainly don't think that just because I use my laptop for large
amounts of data entry means that my Palm is useless! It just means that
I can take ALL of my information everywhere I go.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: grn_white [mailto:michael.walter@r...] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:09 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "kenclatham" <clatham1@t...> wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> > Just to note that wasn't me that responded....
> > 
> > But to this thought thread, I think the reason it's good to talk
> about 
> > these ideas now is for the very fact that the interface has
> drifted. 
> > Jeff honestly acknowledges that the GUI has to be revisited and
> cleaned 
> > up eventually. The time to think about this that and the other
> thing is 
> > before re-tooling; that we you don't re-tool and then start 
hacking
> and 
> > messing it all up again. Instead you plan ahead and even if you
> don't 
> > implement you leave accommodation for the future.
> > 
> <snip>
> 
> Don't mean to back into this one guys, but I would think this is not
> only timely but a good idea for a feature...
> 
> ... but for the *desktop*.
> 
> On the practical side (and not pretending to speak for Jeff), I 
belive
> the intent is to put the light management and data entry facilties
> into the HH but leave the large sweeping activities (like this one 
and
> other cross-item and cross-list analyses) into the desktop.
> 
> I believe this was born out by the poll that showed most people did
> most substantial data entry on the desktop.  So a sort of "big 
action,
> big machine ... small action, small machine" philosophy.
> 
> After all, do you want to carry around code that would most likely
> only be used a max. of once a day.  Most likely I'd do that kind of
> fill once a week, only repeating for that week if something 
seriously
> intruded on the schedule (but that's just me).
> 
> Just my 2 cents...
> 
> Ken


I have not followed this thread closely, BUT this thread and other 
posts screaming for Desktop upgrades bug me,  WHY did you but a palm 
if you do your data entry, etc. on a desktop/laptop????  Why bother 
with a palm at all if it is only a fancy gadget to carry around? Paper 
works just as good for carrying around info created on a desktop.  

I may be in the minority (although I doubt it) but I use the HH 
exclusively to do my input etc. I use it all day, not once a day.  The 
HH side work Jeff has done has been great at adding features, although 
I agree that the UI is becoming too cluttered and the program is 
becoming complicated to use.  The manual (and the website) need 
serious updating to eliminate old stuff no longer relevant and make it 
easier to understand (maybe Jeff needs someone else to do his amnual 
for him as programmers are not always the best people to communicate 
in simple, well organized terms.)

I would strongly vote against making Shadow a 'desktop driven' piece 
of software where I need a desktop to get full usage out of it.  The 
HH should not be a 'light' version of a desktop program, It should be 
THE program with the DT useful for data entry, export to other 
programs etc.  Jeff - keep the HH focus, do not let this become DT 
behemoth!

My 2 cents - (OK maybe 2 1/2)



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
6756

From: Frederick G. Turner  <fred@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 2:39pm
Subject: RE: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
> > I believe this was born out by the poll that showed most people did 
> > most substantial data entry on the desktop.  So a sort of "big
> action,
> > big machine ... small action, small machine" philosophy.

This doesn't jibe for me. I know that all of my datebook and todo and
about 60% of my contact management is done on the Palm; Outlook is just
not effective at fitting things in with the way I work on the Palm, and
is generally not present when I need the info, while my Palm _always_
is!

> I have not followed this thread closely, BUT this thread and other 
> posts screaming for Desktop upgrades bug me,  WHY did you but a palm 
> if you do your data entry, etc. on a desktop/laptop????  Why bother 
> with a palm at all if it is only a fancy gadget to carry 
> around? Paper 
> works just as good for carrying around info created on a desktop.  

Maybe your reaction is a bit extreme. I can imagine that if someone
isn't a particularly good graffiti-er, he or she would much prefer
adding data to the desktop. In my case, that's not an issue, which
allows me to take full advantage of the functionality of the handheld.

> I may be in the minority (although I doubt it) but I use the HH 
> exclusively to do my input etc. I use it all day, not once a 
> day.  

Just to reassure you, CESD held an informal straw poll on this via the
pimlicodatebk yahoo group back in November or so, during the beta
testing of db5. While not representative, the results showed that (IIRC)
about 85% of respondents did almost 100% of their calendar-related data
entry on the Palm. Admittedly there was self-selection with respect to
respondents, but it's still a very telling figure, and was the basis for
CESD's decision not to focus on a desktop component, as well to optimize
data entry in db5.

I would imagine that in shadow's case, with a weak desktop component,
the number would be similar. If (when :) ) the desktop improves, I could
see this becoming less extreme. The large amount of data entry Shadow
calls for, as well as the nature of many work-related projects, could
see great benefit from stronger support on the desktop.

So there's MY two cents...

Fred.
6757

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 2:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Wow Michael, I think you're way off base here. As a Shadow poll (and many
others) showed, there are 3 distinct groups of users out there:
1.   Uses the Palm exclusively for planning... who needs a desktop!
2.   Uses the desktop exclusively for data entry, and wants to view it on
the Palm... how can anybody use that grafitti stuff?
3.   Uses both the DT and the HH and see both as complementary to each
other... ahh, balance.

IMO, right now Shadow is serving group 1 extremely well, forcing group 3 to
do much more work on their HH than they would like, and totally
disappointing 2. Since Jeff created a desktop component, I think he is
trying to satisfy all 3 groups. I'll admit that I fall into group 3, and
again IMO, anyone that completely overlooks either DT or HH functionality
is missing out. I am extremely happy with 2.5, would love to see HH
development continue, but agree 100% that it's time for conduit and DT
work.

Now on the current subject of "CPA" and the proposed additions to Shadow.
As a certified project manager and planning junky, I respectfully disagree
with this way of thinking. If the only way that you feel comfortable is to
have things scheduled, then by all means use the Covey philosophy and
schedule as much of your day as possible. On the other extreme, if you want
to be completely flexible, go with David Allen and schedule ONLY that which
has a hard time commitment and use lists to work on what you choose at any
given moment. But to add all kinds of complex calculations based on extra
data entry that may be faulty to begin with just doesn't make sense to me.
If Jeff chooses to add it, that's certainly his call to make, but I for one
will probably not make use of it. The addition of task weighting and GANTT-
type functionality are much more to my liking. But again, only my opinion.
Your mileage may vary.

Scott

_________
I have not followed this thread closely, BUT this thread and other
posts screaming for Desktop upgrades bug me,  WHY did you but a palm
if you do your data entry, etc. on a desktop/laptop????  Why bother
with a palm at all if it is only a fancy gadget to carry around? Paper
works just as good for carrying around info created on a desktop.

I may be in the minority (although I doubt it) but I use the HH
exclusively to do my input etc. I use it all day, not once a day.  The
HH side work Jeff has done has been great at adding features, although
I agree that the UI is becoming too cluttered and the program is
becoming complicated to use.  The manual (and the website) need
serious updating to eliminate old stuff no longer relevant and make it
easier to understand (maybe Jeff needs someone else to do his amnual
for him as programmers are not always the best people to communicate
in simple, well organized terms.)

I would strongly vote against making Shadow a 'desktop driven' piece
of software where I need a desktop to get full usage out of it.  The
HH should not be a 'light' version of a desktop program, It should be
THE program with the DT useful for data entry, export to other
programs etc.  Jeff - keep the HH focus, do not let this become DT
behemoth!

My 2 cents - (OK maybe 2 1/2)
6758

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Maybe I am all wet, but what exactly is the point of 'critical path 
analysis'?  Sounds to me like project/corporate jargon for figuring 
out what to do next.  Do you not know by looking at your to do list 
how long something might take and whether that is the best thing to 
do?  If not, put more info into the to do.  If my to do says 'draft 
report' - I would hope I know immediately what is involved. So my 
question is - is this a memory thing? - that you can't remember what 
you have to do to draft a report???  If so, then I don't know how 
'critcal path analysis' can help - what you need is a better memory or 
more info in your to do to trigger that memory. If you look at 'draft 
report' and have no idea how long that will take and whether you 
should do it this afternoon or tonight or tomorrow - what exactly is 
the computer going to tell you to help?
Why would you want a computer program to decide that for you? If you 
prioritize your to dos and know when they are due, how tough is it to 
look at your list and say, I have 1 hour, I can get this accomplished. 
If you have to many to dos to choose from then it doesn't matter how 
much software you have, you'll never get anywhere.

This and the GTD folks really intrique me. I don't get the point of 
organizing your to dos by where you are. How exactly does that help 
get things done?  I wouldn't think the problem is knowing where you 
are to organize your to dos. If you are at a 'phone' for example, I 
would have thought it obvious that is when you call people. When you 
are out shopping, that is when you buy things.  The point of a to do 
list is simply a reminder of what has to be done.  If I look at the 
list and I see I have 3 calls to make - then I make them.  It simply 
makes no sense to me (maybe I am strange) why you would say to your 
palm/computer - 'OK, I am sitting at my phone, I have no clue what I 
should do here, tell me what to do' which is what GTD is premised on. 
 My problem has never been knowing what to do, it is getting it all 
done in the time I have. Too many top priority items to do .....

Maybe this project management thing is an indusrty to itself.....

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> Actually it's very much not LifeBalance;
> 
> it's very much Project Management, due date and resource 
availability 
> based.
> 
> see: www.1soft.com and www.taskline.info
> 
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 12:14 PM, Earthlink wrote:
> 
> > funny, sounds like a Life Balance type of thing, which i 
personally 
> > hated.
> > don't like it doing my thinking for me!
> > kevin
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Enjoy life!
> > ------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
> > To: <shadow-discuss@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
> >
> >
> > Not quite what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a the ability to 
pre
> > plan the work day base on appointment commitments. By about 8am 
each day
> > my calendar is about set. Based On that I'm looking to have my 
Todos
> > flow into the gaps in the schedule; giving me recommendations for 
the
> > best things to work on when based on time available and priority.
> >
> > On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 04:08 AM, Jacob Share wrote:
> >
> >> I too would love to see this functionality in Shadow but in the 
> >> meantime
> >> have you tried Hours?
> >>
> >> http://hours.sourceforge.net/
> >>
> >> Jacob
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bob Pankratz" <bob@r...>
> >> To: <shadow-discuss@y...>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:25 AM
> >> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis
> >>
> >>
> >>> Has there been any past discussion of adding Critical Path 
Analysis to
> >>> Shadow? Most of the information in already in Shadow database as 
is 
> >>> the
> >>> linking. The only thing missing is display of the information.  
See
> >>> http://www.taskline.info which does exactly what I'm thinking, 
but not
> >>> on the Palm. Any one else think this might be a desirable 
feature set?
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________
> >>> Bob Pankratz    bob@r...
> >>>
> >>> Linux is only free if your time is worthless
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> Bob Pankratz
> Director of Technology Services
> Plexus Corp.
> www.plexus.com
> bob.pankratz@p...
> 
> "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
> -- Nietzsche
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
6759

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 3:41pm
Subject: RE: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
I think the point here is that different people think in different ways.
You have a system that works for you, and other people use different
things. I personally use a modified GTD system that didn't cost me a
cent to implement on my Palm, and I *am* finally getting organized.
That doesn't mean that I'm not always on the lookout for tools that work
even better-- and having never heard of CPA I'm really intrigued by the
possibilities. Just because you don't seen the need for it doesn't mean
that it couldn't possibly be beneficial to other people.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: grn_white [mailto:michael.walter@r...] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:31 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis

Maybe I am all wet, but what exactly is the point of 'critical path 
analysis'?  Sounds to me like project/corporate jargon for figuring 
out what to do next.  Do you not know by looking at your to do list 
how long something might take and whether that is the best thing to 
do?  If not, put more info into the to do.  If my to do says 'draft 
report' - I would hope I know immediately what is involved. So my 
question is - is this a memory thing? - that you can't remember what 
you have to do to draft a report???  If so, then I don't know how 
'critcal path analysis' can help - what you need is a better memory or 
more info in your to do to trigger that memory. If you look at 'draft 
report' and have no idea how long that will take and whether you 
should do it this afternoon or tonight or tomorrow - what exactly is 
the computer going to tell you to help?
Why would you want a computer program to decide that for you? If you 
prioritize your to dos and know when they are due, how tough is it to 
look at your list and say, I have 1 hour, I can get this accomplished. 
If you have to many to dos to choose from then it doesn't matter how 
much software you have, you'll never get anywhere.

This and the GTD folks really intrique me. I don't get the point of 
organizing your to dos by where you are. How exactly does that help 
get things done?  I wouldn't think the problem is knowing where you 
are to organize your to dos. If you are at a 'phone' for example, I 
would have thought it obvious that is when you call people. When you 
are out shopping, that is when you buy things.  The point of a to do 
list is simply a reminder of what has to be done.  If I look at the 
list and I see I have 3 calls to make - then I make them.  It simply 
makes no sense to me (maybe I am strange) why you would say to your 
palm/computer - 'OK, I am sitting at my phone, I have no clue what I 
should do here, tell me what to do' which is what GTD is premised on. 
 My problem has never been knowing what to do, it is getting it all 
done in the time I have. Too many top priority items to do .....

Maybe this project management thing is an indusrty to itself.....
6760

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 3:59pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Point well taken, I am sorry I am a little grumpy today, it just seems 
this group sometimes goes off on tangents - which may be relevant to 
some users but not all.

I was trying to understand this whole CPA or GTD thing - and maybe I 
was a little harsh - I apologize.  

Just sounds to me like alot of jargon when common sense will work just 
as well.

Now anyone have a system to magically get rid of half of my to dos???


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
> I think the point here is that different people think in different 
ways.
> You have a system that works for you, and other people use different
> things. I personally use a modified GTD system that didn't cost me a
> cent to implement on my Palm, and I *am* finally getting organized.
> That doesn't mean that I'm not always on the lookout for tools that 
work
> even better-- and having never heard of CPA I'm really intrigued by 
the
> possibilities. Just because you don't seen the need for it doesn't 
mean
> that it couldn't possibly be beneficial to other people.
> 
> Jen
> 
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grn_white [mailto:michael.walter@r...] 
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:31 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@y...
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis
> 
> Maybe I am all wet, but what exactly is the point of 'critical path 
> analysis'?  Sounds to me like project/corporate jargon for figuring 
> out what to do next.  Do you not know by looking at your to do list 
> how long something might take and whether that is the best thing to 
> do?  If not, put more info into the to do.  If my to do says 'draft 
> report' - I would hope I know immediately what is involved. So my 
> question is - is this a memory thing? - that you can't remember what 
> you have to do to draft a report???  If so, then I don't know how 
> 'critcal path analysis' can help - what you need is a better memory 
or 
> more info in your to do to trigger that memory. If you look at 
'draft 
> report' and have no idea how long that will take and whether you 
> should do it this afternoon or tonight or tomorrow - what exactly is 
> the computer going to tell you to help?
> Why would you want a computer program to decide that for you? If you 
> prioritize your to dos and know when they are due, how tough is it 
to 
> look at your list and say, I have 1 hour, I can get this 
accomplished. 
> If you have to many to dos to choose from then it doesn't matter how 
> much software you have, you'll never get anywhere.
> 
> This and the GTD folks really intrique me. I don't get the point of 
> organizing your to dos by where you are. How exactly does that help 
> get things done?  I wouldn't think the problem is knowing where you 
> are to organize your to dos. If you are at a 'phone' for example, I 
> would have thought it obvious that is when you call people. When you 
> are out shopping, that is when you buy things.  The point of a to do 
> list is simply a reminder of what has to be done.  If I look at the 
> list and I see I have 3 calls to make - then I make them.  It simply 
> makes no sense to me (maybe I am strange) why you would say to your 
> palm/computer - 'OK, I am sitting at my phone, I have no clue what I 
> should do here, tell me what to do' which is what GTD is premised 
on. 
>  My problem has never been knowing what to do, it is getting it all 
> done in the time I have. Too many top priority items to do .....
> 
> Maybe this project management thing is an indusrty to itself.....
6761

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 4:01pm
Subject: RE: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
>Now anyone have a system to magically get rid of half of my to dos???

Sure!!  Just hit the delete key, or delegate, or just say no in the
first place!!!

: )

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
6762

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
> Now anyone have a system to magically get rid of half of my to dos???

Sure. Delete them. If it's important, someone or something will make you put
it back on the list. When they complain, say your Palm crashed, and you lost
the reminder.

Then be more selective about what you agree to do in future

:-)

--- Malcolm
6763

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:13pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Oh....if it was only that easy...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Malcolm Campbell" <malcolmc@s...> wrote:
> > Now anyone have a system to magically get rid of half of my to 
dos???
> 
> Sure. Delete them. If it's important, someone or something will make 
you put
> it back on the list. When they complain, say your Palm crashed, and 
you lost
> the reminder.
> 
> Then be more selective about what you agree to do in future
> 
> :-)
> 
> --- Malcolm
6764

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:17pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
CPA and GTD are different ways to deal with over load.

Example. I manage 150+ people worldwide. All the people working for me 
are driven by very organized systems and project management plans. My 
self and support management team, are all very  Appointment drive and 
Adhoac todo drive (crisis of the day and strategic planning, basically 
IT at the senior management layer). And this is where GTD and CPA come 
in.

My Calendar usually has 30+ appointments per week and those change and 
get updated daily making planning really hard. In the gaps in my time I 
have to work on the to-dos and extended project;  Some of these things 
are the Elephant rumbling in the distance (Someday soon need to get 
done); Some are Gorrilla's with hands on my neck.

Now I have a boss that wants to know when XYZ will be done and he 
expects honest estimates or guesses. My To-do list is over 800 items 
long. CPA is useful for figuring out which things can actually be 
completed on time based on simple priority and time needed. This allows 
me to decide which ones have to be outsourced or delegated even if the 
delegate will struggle mightily without it.  I could use MS Project to 
manage that but it's over kill and bulking and fails in one area 
portability.

I would like to sit in a meeting, and record the decided upon follow-up 
meeting in my calendar. Then while I wait for the meeting niceties to 
wrap up; I'd like to trigger a CPA analysis. Then as I leave the 
meeting; my Palm will be able to inform me that because of the meeting I 
just scheduled next week; that I'd better go work on a different issue 
than I previously would have before knowing about the meeting. Or in 
other words; something I planned to do next week; now won't be possible 
so I have to start it today; or fail.

This is a serious enough need that I would cut a $2k check to a 
programmer if they wrote the program. I'd easily make that money back 
from the next promotion such a tool would let me achieve.  I can do it 
with my head; but that waste creative energies I like to use to solve 
the problems I'm responsible for.

Oh and it may be and industry to itself; but's not project management; 
it half way between true PM and basic Calendaring


On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 10:30 AM, grn_white wrote:

> Maybe I am all wet, but what exactly is the point of 'critical path
> analysis'?  Sounds to me like project/corporate jargon for figuring
> out what to do next.  Do you not know by looking at your to do list
> how long something might take and whether that is the best thing to
> do?  If not, put more info into the to do.  If my to do says 'draft
> report' - I would hope I know immediately what is involved. So my
> question is - is this a memory thing? - that you can't remember what
> you have to do to draft a report???  If so, then I don't know how
> 'critcal path analysis' can help - what you need is a better memory or
> more info in your to do to trigger that memory. If you look at 'draft
> report' and have no idea how long that will take and whether you
> should do it this afternoon or tonight or tomorrow - what exactly is
> the computer going to tell you to help?
> Why would you want a computer program to decide that for you? If you
> prioritize your to dos and know when they are due, how tough is it to
> look at your list and say, I have 1 hour, I can get this accomplished.
> If you have to many to dos to choose from then it doesn't matter how
> much software you have, you'll never get anywhere.
>
> This and the GTD folks really intrique me. I don't get the point of
> organizing your to dos by where you are. How exactly does that help
> get things done?  I wouldn't think the problem is knowing where you
> are to organize your to dos. If you are at a 'phone' for example, I
> would have thought it obvious that is when you call people. When you
> are out shopping, that is when you buy things.  The point of a to do
> list is simply a reminder of what has to be done.  If I look at the
> list and I see I have 3 calls to make - then I make them.  It simply
> makes no sense to me (maybe I am strange) why you would say to your
> palm/computer - 'OK, I am sitting at my phone, I have no clue what I
> should do here, tell me what to do' which is what GTD is premised on.
>  My problem has never been knowing what to do, it is getting it all
> done in the time I have. Too many top priority items to do .....
>
> Maybe this project management thing is an indusrty to itself.....
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6765

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
> Oh....if it was only that easy...

Actually, it works. Once. Maybe twice.

--- Malcolm
6766

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:51pm
Subject: woa!

 
You guys have been busy of late :) I'll try and catch up before
the weekend, or failing that, Mon/tuesday. Wedding anniversary and going
away for a few days :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6767

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:05pm
Subject: RE: woa!

 
Go enjoy your anniversary, we've mainly been arguing of late about what
we want you to put in the next handheld version!  : )

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:52 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] woa!


	You guys have been busy of late :) I'll try and catch up before
the weekend, or failing that, Mon/tuesday. Wedding anniversary and going
away for a few days :)

		jeff
6768

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 6:09pm
Subject: Re: woa!

 
Don't forget offering bribes.......

But yes attend to anniversary; a dead programmer writes no code.

On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 01:05 PM, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Go enjoy your anniversary, we've mainly been arguing of late about what
> we want you to put in the next handheld version!  : )
>
> Jen
>
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 12:52 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] woa!
>
>
> 	You guys have been busy of late :) I'll try and catch up before
> the weekend, or failing that, Mon/tuesday. Wedding anniversary and going
> away for a few days :)
>
> 		jeff
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6769

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:50pm
Subject: Re: Col-bg problem

 
currently the only way to change it is to put on sunglasses with the color lense you prefer!  ; )
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: wvit 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 1:50 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Col-bg problem


  Hi, in the preference there is an option Col-bg. If set the row will have a 
  background color. My problem is I don't like the current color (light 
  blue). Can I change it, please?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6770

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
bummer bob.  hopefully you're not in a cubicle too!  a window to look out and see the world the rest of us get to enjoy?  ; )  seriously, if that is your thing and you enjoy it, great, but long ago i heard words of wisdom from several older friends who work long hours every day, saying you don't want to look back ten years and wonder if you really missed out on LIFE because you were busy billing hours and saving!  to each his own, as this debate has shown, but don't forget to get some personal (outside work) enjoyment out of EVERY day.
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Pankratz 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Critical Path Analysis


  CPA and GTD are different ways to deal with over load.

  Example. I manage 150+ people worldwide. All the people working for me 
  are driven by very organized systems and project management plans. My 
  self and support management team, are all very  Appointment drive and 
  Adhoac todo drive (crisis of the day and strategic planning, basically 
  IT at the senior management layer). And this is where GTD and CPA come 
  in.

  My Calendar usually has 30+ appointments per week and those change and 
  get updated daily making planning really hard. In the gaps in my time I 
  have to work on the to-dos and extended project;  Some of these things 
  are the Elephant rumbling in the distance (Someday soon need to get 
  done); Some are Gorrilla's with hands on my neck.

  Now I have a boss that wants to know when XYZ will be done and he 
  expects honest estimates or guesses. My To-do list is over 800 items 
  long. CPA is useful for figuring out which things can actually be 
  completed on time based on simple priority and time needed. This allows 
  me to decide which ones have to be outsourced or delegated even if the 
  delegate will struggle mightily without it.  I could use MS Project to 
  manage that but it's over kill and bulking and fails in one area 
  portability.

  I would like to sit in a meeting, and record the decided upon follow-up 
  meeting in my calendar. Then while I wait for the meeting niceties to 
  wrap up; I'd like to trigger a CPA analysis. Then as I leave the 
  meeting; my Palm will be able to inform me that because of the meeting I 
  just scheduled next week; that I'd better go work on a different issue 
  than I previously would have before knowing about the meeting. Or in 
  other words; something I planned to do next week; now won't be possible 
  so I have to start it today; or fail.

  This is a serious enough need that I would cut a $2k check to a 
  programmer if they wrote the program. I'd easily make that money back 
  from the next promotion such a tool would let me achieve.  I can do it 
  with my head; but that waste creative energies I like to use to solve 
  the problems I'm responsible for.

  Oh and it may be and industry to itself; but's not project management; 
  it half way between true PM and basic Calendaring





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6771

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
interesting comments...
you did notice that Jeff CHOSE to build both the hh and the desktop didn't you?  
smartly jeff is building a program (both parts) that will allow the most users possible to enjoy (hh only, desktop only, both), thus why complain.  the hh is awesome.  you can't expect him to ruin the program by throwing every idea mentioned into the handheld and working on it alone forever, so why not let him take a break and get the desktop functioning well too (and the conduit of course!).  maybe another program separately down the line for some of these extraneous ideas (as i recall, already $2K on the table Jeff!), but this one is pretty awesome as is.  i too use mostly all hh, but would love the option of occasionally messing with things on my desktop.  i don't because the option is not quite there yet, but if it was i would occasionally use it.  
and the comment about paper working just as well for something created on a desktop...do you really believe that?  
wow, and then the comment about maybe the developer isn't the one "to communicate in simple, well organized terms"...i have no trouble understanding anything in the manual.  if you have a problem understanding, why not spend your typing time discussing what you don't understand as opposed to the nonsense we just read below...?  
and i don't believe i have ever heard jeff suggest the program would be desktop driven or that you would need the desktop for the hh to function...in fact, as i recall, jeff has made comments ensuring that the hh was his priority and the mainframe, so to speak, of the program (maybe an archive evening of reading would be beneficial for you!).  
some of this in jest, some serious, and some unsure as to whether you really meant half of what you said.  oh well, now back to beginning my coffee!  ; )
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: grn_white 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 7:09 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis


  I have not followed this thread closely, BUT this thread and other 
  posts screaming for Desktop upgrades bug me,  WHY did you but a palm 
  if you do your data entry, etc. on a desktop/laptop????  Why bother 
  with a palm at all if it is only a fancy gadget to carry around? Paper 
  works just as good for carrying around info created on a desktop.  

  I may be in the minority (although I doubt it) but I use the HH 
  exclusively to do my input etc. I use it all day, not once a day.  The 
  HH side work Jeff has done has been great at adding features, although 
  I agree that the UI is becoming too cluttered and the program is 
  becoming complicated to use.  The manual (and the website) need 
  serious updating to eliminate old stuff no longer relevant and make it 
  easier to understand (maybe Jeff needs someone else to do his amnual 
  for him as programmers are not always the best people to communicate 
  in simple, well organized terms.)

  I would strongly vote against making Shadow a 'desktop driven' piece 
  of software where I need a desktop to get full usage out of it.  The 
  HH should not be a 'light' version of a desktop program, It should be 
  THE program with the DT useful for data entry, export to other 
  programs etc.  Jeff - keep the HH focus, do not let this become DT 
  behemoth!

  My 2 cents - (OK maybe 2 1/2)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6772

From: madmaxmedia  <madmaxmedia@y...>
Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:06pm
Subject: Desktop feature request- HTML styles?

 
Hi,

Perhaps this has been requested already, but I'd like the HTML 
export files to contain styles (heading 1, 2, etc.) That would allow 
me to tweak the display format very easily.

I find the HTML export great for printing large files, or sharing 
info with others (non PDA owners.) I just can't easily re-format 
them.

Thanks,
Steve
6773

From: neilbothams  <neil.bothams@b...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 0:16am
Subject: Re: Datebk5 advance; Lifebalance leadtime and Shadow dates

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> Lifebalance is also being modified to honor the Advances in Datebk5 
> correctly. So "advances" would be the the ones to target/integrate 
with 
> shadow's "start date"

Thanks Bob, this is excellent news.  Jeff, please make a note for the 
future about integrating the Shadow start date with Datebk5 advances.

Neil
6774

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 1:21am
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Kevin, hold your horses, you missed my point - some of which was in 
jest...

I was responding to a post that suggested that most users used the DT 
for data entry, that he would only use the HH once a day, and that he 
wanted all of this CPA stuff to be on the desktop and keep the HH to 
'light management'.

My point, perhaps not so elegantly stated (OK I was ranting a bit) was 
this - that I believe a majority of users use the HH mostly, and if 
all I was going to do with the HH was look at what I had created on 
the DT, then you could simply print it out (paper does have a nice 
GUI IMHO).  I do not use my palm that way - I am trying to free 
myself, as much as I can from the DT, and paper.  IMHO, sahdow should 
primarily be a HH app but I did acknowledge that an improved DT would 
be good for some data entry and and export/import.  I merely want Jeff 
not get distracted by all of these requests to add more features - 
particularly only on the DT side, or that will unduly bloat the HH.  I 
have followed the threads, I just wanted to remind Jeff that there is 
a divergence of opinion and to maintain his focus.

As for the manual, I understand it fine, BUT i was merely commenting 
that it had to be updated and perhaps better organized.  IMHO, the 
presentation can be confusing and not as simple as it could be.  I 
believe this is a result of merely adding on new sections about new 
features without cleaning up the now more irrelevant stuff and making 
the presentation more intuitive and simpler.  My comment about having 
someone else do the manual was simply a suggestion that Jeff should do 
what he does best - program, and let someone else prepare the manual. 
What is obvious to the creator of the software, may not be obvious to 
others and needs some better explanation. Just look at all the 
questions on this site.  I'm not saying the manual is bad - it just 
needs cleaning up.  Kevin, I see you are a lawyer.  I think you would 
agree, you don't send the corporate lawyer who drafted the contract to 
court when it is litigated over. You hire a specialist.  That is all I 
meant - get a communications person to spruce it up.

Kevin - have some more coffee....and I'll agree to quit ranting!
 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Earthlink" <kevin@g...> wrote:
> interesting comments...
> you did notice that Jeff CHOSE to build both the hh and the desktop 
didn't you?  
> smartly jeff is building a program (both parts) that will allow the 
most users possible to enjoy (hh only, desktop only, both), thus why 
complain.  the hh is awesome.  you can't expect him to ruin the 
program by throwing every idea mentioned into the handheld and working 
on it alone forever, so why not let him take a break and get the 
desktop functioning well too (and the conduit of course!).  maybe 
another program separately down the line for some of these extraneous 
ideas (as i recall, already $2K on the table Jeff!), but this one is 
pretty awesome as is.  i too use mostly all hh, but would love the 
option of occasionally messing with things on my desktop.  i don't 
because the option is not quite there yet, but if it was i would 
occasionally use it.  
> and the comment about paper working just as well for something 
created on a desktop...do you really believe that?  
> wow, and then the comment about maybe the developer isn't the one 
"to communicate in simple, well organized terms"...i have no trouble 
understanding anything in the manual.  if you have a problem 
understanding, why not spend your typing time discussing what you 
don't understand as opposed to the nonsense we just read below...?  
> and i don't believe i have ever heard jeff suggest the program would 
be desktop driven or that you would need the desktop for the hh to 
function...in fact, as i recall, jeff has made comments ensuring that 
the hh was his priority and the mainframe, so to speak, of the program 
(maybe an archive evening of reading would be beneficial for you!).  
> some of this in jest, some serious, and some unsure as to whether 
you really meant half of what you said.  oh well, now back to 
beginning my coffee!  ; )
> kevin
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: grn_white 
>   To: shadow-discuss@y... 
>   Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 7:09 AM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Critical Path Analysis
> 
> 
>   I have not followed this thread closely, BUT this thread and other 
>   posts screaming for Desktop upgrades bug me,  WHY did you but a 
palm 
>   if you do your data entry, etc. on a desktop/laptop????  Why 
bother 
>   with a palm at all if it is only a fancy gadget to carry around? 
Paper 
>   works just as good for carrying around info created on a desktop. 
 
> 
>   I may be in the minority (although I doubt it) but I use the HH 
>   exclusively to do my input etc. I use it all day, not once a day. 
 The 
>   HH side work Jeff has done has been great at adding features, 
although 
>   I agree that the UI is becoming too cluttered and the program is 
>   becoming complicated to use.  The manual (and the website) need 
>   serious updating to eliminate old stuff no longer relevant and 
make it 
>   easier to understand (maybe Jeff needs someone else to do his 
amnual 
>   for him as programmers are not always the best people to 
communicate 
>   in simple, well organized terms.)
> 
>   I would strongly vote against making Shadow a 'desktop driven' 
piece 
>   of software where I need a desktop to get full usage out of it.  
The 
>   HH should not be a 'light' version of a desktop program, It should 
be 
>   THE program with the DT useful for data entry, export to other 
>   programs etc.  Jeff - keep the HH focus, do not let this become DT 
>   behemoth!
> 
>   My 2 cents - (OK maybe 2 1/2)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6775

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:25am
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Nah I've got a windows on all sides.... 5 of team :)

In the end I only work 8-10 a day, and I have an overly busy life. 
That's exactly why I use the palm and while I am driving for even better 
tools. If I'm going to keep my work limited to acceptable hours, then I 
have to make the best possible use of the time during the day; and the 
means understanding what must be done when.

On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 03:03 PM, Earthlink wrote:

> bummer bob.  hopefully you're not in a cubicle too!  a window to look 
> out and see the world the rest of us get to enjoy?  ; )  seriously, if 
> that is your thing and you enjoy it, great, but long ago i heard words 
> of wisdom from several older friends who work long hours every day, 
> saying you don't want to look back ten years and wonder if you really 
> missed out on LIFE because you were busy billing hours and saving!  to 
> each his own, as this debate has shown, but don't forget to get some 
> personal (outside work) enjoyment out of EVERY day.
> kevin
>
>
_________________________________________________
Bob Pankratz    bob@r...

Linux is only free if your time is worthless
6776

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 7:32am
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> Nah I've got a windows on all sides.... 5 of team :)
> 
> In the end I only work 8-10 a day, and I have an overly busy life. 
> That's exactly why I use the palm and while I am driving for even
better 
> tools. If I'm going to keep my work limited to acceptable hours,
then I 
> have to make the best possible use of the time during the day; and
the 
> means understanding what must be done when.
> 

I'm not responding to your original definition of CPA, since I don't
want to try for a point by point analysis here.  I just thought I'd
add a few  comments on all of these "scheduling algorithms for life"
concepts, including CPA.

One, as my memory serves me (of my meager training in business
techiques), I recall CPA as a (static) means to determine the minimum
number of resources for a project by "packing" non-critical path
actions together along the same path (and in critical path slack time,
if available).

On a static set of project actions that works.  As a dynamic method of
assuring completion of multiple critical paths (projects), you're
going to suffer the problem of starvation.

Meaning, if you assign a minimum work time to tasks, what is to say
there will *ever* be a slot big enough in which to fit that task.  A
human interpreting the situation can either adjust the "constants"
(move a scheduled meeting) or subdivide the "indivisible task" (min.
time) in response.  An algorithm is hard pressed to do this.

I think you'll find that GTD represents this need of your decision
power to do the scheduling.  Sort (including reprioritization),
instead of schedule, then work on the top most ToDo at every free
interval between meetings.  I think if you see how you would be
continually "filling" and re-filling your schedule with the CPA
algorithm that it is essentially the same outcome.

Personally, I have found that my training in CPU job scheduling and 
queuing theory serves as a better guide for attempting to order my
life than any of these "practical" methods.

Consider the general problem of N tasks of known duration (like even
that's likely).  Given due dates on each of these tasks.  (IIRC) It is
an NP-hard problem, meaning that there are at least 2 to the power of
N evaluations to make to determine if all the deadlines can be met.

To make this even worse, this just tells you whether or not you can
make the deadlines, not how to reset due dates if they don't.

Now seeing as you have 800 ToDos... let see 2 raised to the power
800... uh, you're going to be here a while trying to layout that
schedule (somewhere on the order of centuries, if each evaluation
takes 1 minute).

Maybe now you can see why none of the programs out there actually
"work".  They're all either guessing (heuristic approximation) or they
actually compute the entire schedule and find it can't be done!

Now add shifting priorities and changing schedules .... and you get
... "Just in time" management.  Basically, you can only approximate,
you can not solve.  Now maybe when your desktop PC is running at 1
TerraHz with 1000 CPUs you'll have a shot (I exaggerate), but not on a
lowly little Palm!

And what is true of just the scheduling is true of the actual work.
Let's face it.  There is either enough "CPU" power to get the work
done or there isn't.  If there isn't then the only answer (without
changing dates) is more "CPU"s.  So, if there is an answer... its
hire, then delegate!

I'm betting your boss thinks its better to run the one CPU he has
(you) for a longer period each day, than it is to add CPUs (help).

Ahh, the cold cruel world of computing... ;)

Ken
6777

From: Chris  <chris@p...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 10:09am
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Man, I moved this list away from digest mode, take one day off,  and boom 
you explode my mailbox.

Weighing in a bit because I think a CPA feature would be "neat" there are 
some simple things that the ::cough:: heated ::cough:: discussion 
neglected. Most Palms are really crappy computers. I know that I love my 
Palm m505, and before that my Visor 2MB ... but seriously for shadow to 
calculate in all of the lists in memory the kind of information it would 
need to perform any kind of CPA (as you described it, because like Jen I'd 
never heard of it and I'm intrigued) would take some serious processing 
power. Perhaps the new OS 5 devices with thier ARM processors will have the 
power, but I doubt it.

Also remember that alot of people (like me) don't simply use one list, or 
even multiple lists in memory. I use multilpe lists in memory, on the SD 
card, on a little slip of paper on my desk, on my computer, in my head, on 
the whiteboards around the office ... in my pockets that I only find when 
I'm riding the bus a "week" after they were absolutly supposed to be 
done ... in the book I happened to be reading that day but I hadn't opened 
again until years later ... you get the picture. If you are organized 
enough to get all of your tasks inputted, catagroized, and stored in the 
proper place in Shadow, then I for one believe you're far more organized 
than I am. But I can't expect Shadow to track everything down and organize 
it for me, in terms of computer power it's basically a really smart 
calculator. Not enough power to do more than fly a couple of men to the 
moon and back. (And that only with the support of a dozen engineers with 
sliderules).

Also some people don't use shadow simply for project organization. I use it 
to outline documentation I write for work. I use it to outline short-
stories I'd like to write. I wanna start using it to keep track of my blog 
online (pending new Conduit work) ... I wanna use it to take over the world 
if possible (pending some serious work on the desktop). Jeff's written an  
powerful program, which is shown exactly by the number of features people 
would like to add to it. Nobody want's to add features to appliactions they 
don't like. Nobody uses applications they don't like.

Side-Note: I also take umbrage to the comment that software programmers 
don't write in simple clear instructions ... that is the exact problem, 
They "do" write in simple clear instructions computers wouldn't deal with 
anything else, >humans< don't like reading "simple clear instructions" and 
you have to build complex metaphores for them to get them to understand the 
system ... and creative metaphores the common man will understand is a 
skill most programmers don't have, they're trained to talk to computers not 
people. But that's another rant.

I think for people who want some kind of CPA work, the best option would be 
an external-to-shadow app that works with linked Shadow items and does this 
organization for you. It's honestly too big an idea to put into the HH 
without warping it all out of shape. Mind you this third app could be the 
DT, and that would be cool. I do most of my day-to-day work on a desktop 
pc, and use Shadow to organize things at night during my daughter's 
bathtime. But it would be "neat" if it worked on the palm.

That came out alot longer than I expected. Sorry.

-Chris
6778

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Bob,

Sounds to me like your problem is not that you would like CPA in 
shadow - sounds like you need some serious help at work - or you need 
to delegate some of your 800 to dos.  It doesn't matter how 
sophisticated a computer program you have, you'll never get done what 
you need to get done.  30+  meetings a week is 6 a day.  800 to do's, 
at an average of hour each is half a year of billable time.  Assume 
for a moment each meeting you have is 30 min (ie 3 hr per day) and 1-2 
hrs of dealing with email/phone calls (OK I'm guessing here) - that 
leaves 4-6 hours to do your to do's.  Assume the number of to do's 
remains static, that means you will need around 200 days to complete 
your to do's. Now we are up in the range of close to a year to 
complete what is on your plate right now. 

Now lets assume that 4 to do's get added to your list each day.  Again 
if we assume 1 hr each as an average, this will mean that you now have 
only 1-2 hrs a day to catch up on your 800 to do's - now we are 
talking 400-800 days to get everything accomplished which is 1.5 to 
2.5 years.....and I haven't let you eat yet (let alone account for 
travel which I'm sure you have to do) :)

Now about this CPA thing .... how again is that going to save you from 
going insane??

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
> CPA and GTD are different ways to deal with over load.
> 
> Example. I manage 150+ people worldwide. All the people working for 
me 
> are driven by very organized systems and project management plans. 
My 
> self and support management team, are all very  Appointment drive 
and 
> Adhoac todo drive (crisis of the day and strategic planning, 
basically 
> IT at the senior management layer). And this is where GTD and CPA 
come 
> in.
> 
> My Calendar usually has 30+ appointments per week and those change 
and 
> get updated daily making planning really hard. In the gaps in my 
time I 
> have to work on the to-dos and extended project;  Some of these 
things 
> are the Elephant rumbling in the distance (Someday soon need to get 
> done); Some are Gorrilla's with hands on my neck.
> 
> Now I have a boss that wants to know when XYZ will be done and he 
> expects honest estimates or guesses. My To-do list is over 800 items 
> long. CPA is useful for figuring out which things can actually be 
> completed on time based on simple priority and time needed. This 
allows 
> me to decide which ones have to be outsourced or delegated even if 
the 
> delegate will struggle mightily without it.  I could use MS Project 
to 
> manage that but it's over kill and bulking and fails in one area 
> portability.
> 
> I would like to sit in a meeting, and record the decided upon 
follow-up 
> meeting in my calendar. Then while I wait for the meeting niceties 
to 
> wrap up; I'd like to trigger a CPA analysis. Then as I leave the 
> meeting; my Palm will be able to inform me that because of the 
meeting I 
> just scheduled next week; that I'd better go work on a different 
issue 
> than I previously would have before knowing about the meeting. Or in 
> other words; something I planned to do next week; now won't be 
possible 
> so I have to start it today; or fail.
> 
> This is a serious enough need that I would cut a $2k check to a 
> programmer if they wrote the program. I'd easily make that money 
back 
> from the next promotion such a tool would let me achieve.  I can do 
it 
> with my head; but that waste creative energies I like to use to 
solve 
> the problems I'm responsible for.
> 
> Oh and it may be and industry to itself; but's not project 
management; 
> it half way between true PM and basic Calendaring
> 
> 
> On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 10:30 AM, grn_white wrote:
> 
> > Maybe I am all wet, but what exactly is the point of 'critical 
path
> > analysis'?  Sounds to me like project/corporate jargon for 
figuring
> > out what to do next.  Do you not know by looking at your to do 
list
> > how long something might take and whether that is the best thing 
to
> > do?  If not, put more info into the to do.  If my to do says 
'draft
> > report' - I would hope I know immediately what is involved. So my
> > question is - is this a memory thing? - that you can't remember 
what
> > you have to do to draft a report???  If so, then I don't know how
> > 'critcal path analysis' can help - what you need is a better 
memory or
> > more info in your to do to trigger that memory. If you look at 
'draft
> > report' and have no idea how long that will take and whether you
> > should do it this afternoon or tonight or tomorrow - what exactly 
is
> > the computer going to tell you to help?
> > Why would you want a computer program to decide that for you? If 
you
> > prioritize your to dos and know when they are due, how tough is it 
to
> > look at your list and say, I have 1 hour, I can get this 
accomplished.
> > If you have to many to dos to choose from then it doesn't matter 
how
> > much software you have, you'll never get anywhere.
> >
> > This and the GTD folks really intrique me. I don't get the point 
of
> > organizing your to dos by where you are. How exactly does that 
help
> > get things done?  I wouldn't think the problem is knowing where 
you
> > are to organize your to dos. If you are at a 'phone' for example, 
I
> > would have thought it obvious that is when you call people. When 
you
> > are out shopping, that is when you buy things.  The point of a to 
do
> > list is simply a reminder of what has to be done.  If I look at 
the
> > list and I see I have 3 calls to make - then I make them.  It 
simply
> > makes no sense to me (maybe I am strange) why you would say to 
your
> > palm/computer - 'OK, I am sitting at my phone, I have no clue what 
I
> > should do here, tell me what to do' which is what GTD is premised 
on.
> >  My problem has never been knowing what to do, it is getting it 
all
> > done in the time I have. Too many top priority items to do .....
> >
> > Maybe this project management thing is an indusrty to itself.....
> >
> Bob Pankratz
> Director of Technology Services
> Plexus Corp.
> www.plexus.com
> bob.pankratz@p...
> 
> "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
> -- Nietzsche
6779

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 2:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
Cute analysis, I liked that. In the real world of people I have 8 
assistants. 7 Manager and 1 Admin; and I do run them hard and fast. As 
the the 800 todos I know that not all of those can be scheduled. Nor can 
they all every get done, but that doesn't stop people from asking. I 
tend to block off times of the day to return calls and the like; that 
account for 200 or so of the items mostly a FIFO queue.  Another 200 are 
"if the moons align do it"  the balance are pieces of about 20 projects 
with varying deadlines. Those 20 project have varying priorities; that 
change. My goal with CA would be to have those 20 personal multistep 
commitments be better planned and adjustable. If Customer A lowers there 
yield focus then their pet project might shift from priority 1 to 
priority 3. I'd like all the supporting todo's to get rearranged based 
on that shift in priority.  I do all of this in LifeBalance todo and it 
works great.... (some of you may have read the stuff I write under the 
alias of RATZ) .....BUT that system doesn't let me tell someone when the 
top 5 projects will finish, it just tells me what to work on next. 
Remember these really don't justify an MS Project like tool; they are 
one person original thought type issues. CPA is the missing piece to 
forecasting whether I can get those five projects done or if I have to 
go for less quality and hire the work/thought out. (CONTROL FREAK 
HERE)....  So what I would like is to condense those 20 project in 
single master todo's with time estimates to complete and then have 
shadow or some tool give me tentative reserved time slots in the 
calendar to work on them. It would be nuts to try to CPA the entire todo 
list. The linking in Shadow is what intrigues me; it would always and 
wonderful set of was to organize the data etc.

For those that might care I do that now with Datebk5 floats that I 
manual place and move if there are conflicts. But it's a far about of 
work. the MTRA post was just a very simple way to improve upon a very 
manual process. There may be a lot of ways to skin this cat. I've 
already had 3 great ideas from all this back and forth so far.



On Friday, August 16, 2002, at 02:32 AM, kenclatham wrote:

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
>> Nah I've got a windows on all sides.... 5 of team :)
>>
>> In the end I only work 8-10 a day, and I have an overly busy life.
>> That's exactly why I use the palm and while I am driving for even
> better
>> tools. If I'm going to keep my work limited to acceptable hours,
> then I
>> have to make the best possible use of the time during the day; and
> the
>> means understanding what must be done when.
>>
>
> I'm not responding to your original definition of CPA, since I don't
> want to try for a point by point analysis here.  I just thought I'd
> add a few  comments on all of these "scheduling algorithms for life"
> concepts, including CPA.
>
> One, as my memory serves me (of my meager training in business
> techiques), I recall CPA as a (static) means to determine the minimum
> number of resources for a project by "packing" non-critical path
> actions together along the same path (and in critical path slack time,
> if available).
>
> On a static set of project actions that works.  As a dynamic method of
> assuring completion of multiple critical paths (projects), you're
> going to suffer the problem of starvation.
>
> Meaning, if you assign a minimum work time to tasks, what is to say
> there will *ever* be a slot big enough in which to fit that task.  A
> human interpreting the situation can either adjust the "constants"
> (move a scheduled meeting) or subdivide the "indivisible task" (min.
> time) in response.  An algorithm is hard pressed to do this.
>
> I think you'll find that GTD represents this need of your decision
> power to do the scheduling.  Sort (including reprioritization),
> instead of schedule, then work on the top most ToDo at every free
> interval between meetings.  I think if you see how you would be
> continually "filling" and re-filling your schedule with the CPA
> algorithm that it is essentially the same outcome.
>
> Personally, I have found that my training in CPU job scheduling and
> queuing theory serves as a better guide for attempting to order my
> life than any of these "practical" methods.
>
> Consider the general problem of N tasks of known duration (like even
> that's likely).  Given due dates on each of these tasks.  (IIRC) It is
> an NP-hard problem, meaning that there are at least 2 to the power of
> N evaluations to make to determine if all the deadlines can be met.
>
> To make this even worse, this just tells you whether or not you can
> make the deadlines, not how to reset due dates if they don't.
>
> Now seeing as you have 800 ToDos... let see 2 raised to the power
> 800... uh, you're going to be here a while trying to layout that
> schedule (somewhere on the order of centuries, if each evaluation
> takes 1 minute).
>
> Maybe now you can see why none of the programs out there actually
> "work".  They're all either guessing (heuristic approximation) or they
> actually compute the entire schedule and find it can't be done!
>
> Now add shifting priorities and changing schedules .... and you get
> ... "Just in time" management.  Basically, you can only approximate,
> you can not solve.  Now maybe when your desktop PC is running at 1
> TerraHz with 1000 CPUs you'll have a shot (I exaggerate), but not on a
> lowly little Palm!
>
> And what is true of just the scheduling is true of the actual work.
> Let's face it.  There is either enough "CPU" power to get the work
> done or there isn't.  If there isn't then the only answer (without
> changing dates) is more "CPU"s.  So, if there is an answer... its
> hire, then delegate!
>
> I'm betting your boss thinks its better to run the one CPU he has
> (you) for a longer period each day, than it is to add CPUs (help).
>
> Ahh, the cold cruel world of computing... ;)
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
6780

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:02pm
Subject: Re: More Tag Preferences

 
On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, mgoglio wrote:

> I'm using Shadow 2.5 and I do an intesive use of Tag, so I have a 
> feature request for handheld and Desktop:
> - allow both general and List based Tag;

	What do you mean? You have tag categories to allow you to organize
them, and they're all global; you cannot have tags that belong to one list
only, since just ocne, someday, you'd want to use them in another list,
and break everything ;)

> - adding a Icon to the Tag (So in a Spreadsheet-like View we can have 
> three or four Icon-Tag showed with improvement of utilization).

	I intend on (someday) adding icons to Shadow, so that you can
associate them to an item, or to a tag and have all items with that tag
show that icon. That'll be awhile though..

> - under the [F] menu the possibility of a quick list to choose a 
> filter (I have four filter that are the most used.. and only two of 
> them are applicable with a view.. )

	yeah; sometime. I'm focusing on desktop for awhile (and fixing my
LAN after lightning destroyed most of it :/). The handheld is goign to sit
with minor improvements for awhile..

> - a speed way of adding tags to an item, like the menu of the tag
> column even this column is hidden.

	Got any ideas on a good way? I think the Thin Tag Column is very
good; create two Views.. one with what you want, and one with that plus
tag column.. an "add mode" for yoursdelf. You can change views very
quickly using the [V] menu.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6781

From: Bob Pankratz  <bob@r...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
BTW the pace of tasks is why I don't proof read posts... no offense, 
just no time :)

On Friday, August 16, 2002, at 09:52 AM, Bob Pankratz wrote:

> Cute analysis, I liked that. In the real world of people I have 8
> assistants. 7 Manager and 1 Admin; and I do run them hard and fast. As
> the the 800 todos I know that not all of those can be scheduled. Nor can
> they all every get done, but that doesn't stop people from asking. I
> tend to block off times of the day to return calls and the like; that
> account for 200 or so of the items mostly a FIFO queue.  Another 200 are
> "if the moons align do it"  the balance are pieces of about 20 projects
> with varying deadlines. Those 20 project have varying priorities; that
> change. My goal with CA would be to have those 20 personal multistep
> commitments be better planned and adjustable. If Customer A lowers there
> yield focus then their pet project might shift from priority 1 to
> priority 3. I'd like all the supporting todo's to get rearranged based
> on that shift in priority.  I do all of this in LifeBalance todo and it
> works great.... (some of you may have read the stuff I write under the
> alias of RATZ) .....BUT that system doesn't let me tell someone when the
> top 5 projects will finish, it just tells me what to work on next.
> Remember these really don't justify an MS Project like tool; they are
> one person original thought type issues. CPA is the missing piece to
> forecasting whether I can get those five projects done or if I have to
> go for less quality and hire the work/thought out. (CONTROL FREAK
> HERE)....  So what I would like is to condense those 20 project in
> single master todo's with time estimates to complete and then have
> shadow or some tool give me tentative reserved time slots in the
> calendar to work on them. It would be nuts to try to CPA the entire todo
> list. The linking in Shadow is what intrigues me; it would always and
> wonderful set of was to organize the data etc.
>
> For those that might care I do that now with Datebk5 floats that I
> manual place and move if there are conflicts. But it's a far about of
> work. the MTRA post was just a very simple way to improve upon a very
> manual process. There may be a lot of ways to skin this cat. I've
> already had 3 great ideas from all this back and forth so far.
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 16, 2002, at 02:32 AM, kenclatham wrote:
>
>> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Bob Pankratz <bob@r...> wrote:
>>> Nah I've got a windows on all sides.... 5 of team :)
>>>
>>> In the end I only work 8-10 a day, and I have an overly busy life.
>>> That's exactly why I use the palm and while I am driving for even
>> better
>>> tools. If I'm going to keep my work limited to acceptable hours,
>> then I
>>> have to make the best possible use of the time during the day; and
>> the
>>> means understanding what must be done when.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not responding to your original definition of CPA, since I don't
>> want to try for a point by point analysis here.  I just thought I'd
>> add a few  comments on all of these "scheduling algorithms for life"
>> concepts, including CPA.
>>
>> One, as my memory serves me (of my meager training in business
>> techiques), I recall CPA as a (static) means to determine the minimum
>> number of resources for a project by "packing" non-critical path
>> actions together along the same path (and in critical path slack time,
>> if available).
>>
>> On a static set of project actions that works.  As a dynamic method of
>> assuring completion of multiple critical paths (projects), you're
>> going to suffer the problem of starvation.
>>
>> Meaning, if you assign a minimum work time to tasks, what is to say
>> there will *ever* be a slot big enough in which to fit that task.  A
>> human interpreting the situation can either adjust the "constants"
>> (move a scheduled meeting) or subdivide the "indivisible task" (min.
>> time) in response.  An algorithm is hard pressed to do this.
>>
>> I think you'll find that GTD represents this need of your decision
>> power to do the scheduling.  Sort (including reprioritization),
>> instead of schedule, then work on the top most ToDo at every free
>> interval between meetings.  I think if you see how you would be
>> continually "filling" and re-filling your schedule with the CPA
>> algorithm that it is essentially the same outcome.
>>
>> Personally, I have found that my training in CPU job scheduling and
>> queuing theory serves as a better guide for attempting to order my
>> life than any of these "practical" methods.
>>
>> Consider the general problem of N tasks of known duration (like even
>> that's likely).  Given due dates on each of these tasks.  (IIRC) It is
>> an NP-hard problem, meaning that there are at least 2 to the power of
>> N evaluations to make to determine if all the deadlines can be met.
>>
>> To make this even worse, this just tells you whether or not you can
>> make the deadlines, not how to reset due dates if they don't.
>>
>> Now seeing as you have 800 ToDos... let see 2 raised to the power
>> 800... uh, you're going to be here a while trying to layout that
>> schedule (somewhere on the order of centuries, if each evaluation
>> takes 1 minute).
>>
>> Maybe now you can see why none of the programs out there actually
>> "work".  They're all either guessing (heuristic approximation) or they
>> actually compute the entire schedule and find it can't be done!
>>
>> Now add shifting priorities and changing schedules .... and you get
>> ... "Just in time" management.  Basically, you can only approximate,
>> you can not solve.  Now maybe when your desktop PC is running at 1
>> TerraHz with 1000 CPUs you'll have a shot (I exaggerate), but not on a
>> lowly little Palm!
>>
>> And what is true of just the scheduling is true of the actual work.
>> Let's face it.  There is either enough "CPU" power to get the work
>> done or there isn't.  If there isn't then the only answer (without
>> changing dates) is more "CPU"s.  So, if there is an answer... its
>> hire, then delegate!
>>
>> I'm betting your boss thinks its better to run the one CPU he has
>> (you) for a longer period each day, than it is to add CPUs (help).
>>
>> Ahh, the cold cruel world of computing... ;)
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
Bob Pankratz
Director of Technology Services
Plexus Corp.
www.plexus.com
bob.pankratz@p...

"He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself."
-- Nietzsche
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
6782

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Undo?

 
On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, carrdwight wrote:

> I am newly registered and am really getting into setting up my lists,
> etc...  But since they are all new, I am moving them around a lot and
> have bumped into some problems or challenges or :
> 
> First, the drag and drop seems really sensitive on my M515.  I end up
> losing items all the time, and I have to look through my whole outline
> to try to find it, if I can remember the item that got moved at all.  
> Is there any way to undo the move?

	Drag and drop is too sensitive on some units (reasonably common,
too). I intend on changing this behaviour.

> Second, I am using the power of multi-pasting to move items around and
> about half the time I am too stupid to remember to clear the clip
> board before pasting and I sometimes end up with two or three copies
> of the same thing and then several combined clips and past the whole
> group two or three different places.  Again, any chance of an undo?

	No; it woudl be an immense quantity of work to handle, with
respect to small Palm OS type processing power and resources. The things
you can do can have extensive changes, and I we don't have RAM to keep
track of it, and keeping multiples copies of lists for undo sake could be
really nasty on responsiveness and certianly memory :/ You have "drastic
undo" (read, dangerous) with "Revert", but its best not to use it.

	I may look into Undo when OS5 becomes pretty common, but for now,
Undo is a nasty nasty thing :)

> What about a find duplicates?  I could use the find to find the
> duplicates, but again, about half the time, I don't realize I have
> duplicated the items more than once until they are in several places,
> and then I don't remember which items are where, etc...

	"Duplicate" is a very difficult thing to determine; "the same
looking", "the same content", "the same dates", what about relation to
parents? The same in one parent, or the same at multiple depths? Etc. You
could use "sort" to get similar (or the same) items clumped together...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6783

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: sever broken links not working

 
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, llgriffll wrote:

> Really Shadow should see those items that had links severed as 
> changed...and save those at next close...

	Its a protective mechanism; severing links is "drastic" perhaps,
so I figured that it shoudlnt' trigger a save unless you actually change
something *else*. You can always sever again, harmlessly, so I figured why
not? I'm probably wrong .. :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6784

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: More Tag Preferences

 
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, mcmug1997 wrote:

> > - a speed way of adding tags to an item, like the menu of the tag 
> > column even this column is hidden.
> 
> I would like to see a tag menu like the C/F/V menu, with a quick list 
> like you suggested for F.
> 
> Even though I view the tag column, it is a bit tedious to add tags: 
> Tab column, tab add, tab catagory, then select the tag.

	I will be making the tag column support a 2-tap-tagging (it would
show you tags from last added category)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6785

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:10pm
Subject: Re: filtered export

 
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Corey Colyer wrote:

> Greetings group,

	Howdi :)

> Can I export a filtered list?  
> 
> I use shadow for my project planning and tracking.  Since I'm the only
> handheld user in my group at work, I've taken to exporting my project
> lists to DOC, using shadow's cool html function, and posting them in a
> shared directory.  Right now I export the whole list and then edit the
> html to eliminate things that were done in a prior period.  What I'd
> like to do is invoke a filter or view and export that content into
> memo.

	I've long debated it; I could add an option to the handheld
filtration system, but I've always expected to make the desktop handle
exports better, since it has more horsepower. Up to you guys,
perhaps.. I've not had too much time to worry about it :)

> It doesn't look like shadow can do this currently, and I presume it
> would take a lot of code to generate this kind of feature.  [I suppose
> the desktop is an option, but our IT folks get cranky about us
> installing "unsupported" software on our work machines...so I've
> avoided getting it]. Then again, perhaps this is already implemented
> and I've just missed.  No harm in asking.

	Not yet supported; its not a lot of code, bu tits "more code", and
I'm always worried about turning Shadow into the "do all monolothic"
application.. you know, that takes up 1MB of valuable Palm memory :) Its
already getting "obese" in my books ;)

	If its something people need to do on the handheld, I can look
into it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6786

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Tracking project start/end dates

 
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, sgarelick wrote:

> Is there any way to get Shadow to show the start date of an item along
> with the target date on the list screen? I would like to be able to
> enter in all the tasks for my projects and be able to quicky ascertain
> when each task will begin/end without having to bring up the details
> screen.

	I will be adding start/end dates as optional columns, just like
target date column. This isn't a difficult addition, I think (given I can
already do target date column), so if you get all riled up..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6787

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Creation date bug?

 
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

> I just realized that the Creation Date (cr) noted in an item doesn't
> change with a copy & paste. Is that the way it should be?

	It is copied.

> To be clearer - in some of my lists I have a templatized branch that I
> copy, paste and adjust accordingly. I just realized that all the items
> I have pasted have the cr of the original templatized branch. I'd
> rather the cr be the date that I pasted, in effect, the Creation Date
> of the adjusted item. Is this a bug? Also, the cr of these items is
> 1/1/04. What's up with that?

	It was by decision, however it may be the undesired behaviour. Let
me know everyone..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6788

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:14pm
Subject: Re: Jeff: Is tracking by time coming up ?, let me explain via a GTD post I found

 
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> It would be neat to able to have an option on the link manager where
> one could pick the duration of time, for example, picking 30min.,45
> min., 1hr ,etc. etc. or even # of days and minutes. I stumbled on to a
> great article on the David Allen site that I want to share with all of
> you and gather some feedback it deals with prioritizing and time
> factoring.

	I expect to add both a "misc column" (that you cvan enter anythign
you want into), and a "weighting column" where you could put weights
(which coudl be minutes, hours, work-units, whatever). You can get by now
by using Tags with pre-defined time units, though you wont' get summation
automagically for you.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6789

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:18pm
Subject: Re: Desktop feature request- HTML styles?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "madmaxmedia" <madmaxmedia@y...> wrote:

> Perhaps this has been requested already, but I'd like the HTML 
> export files to contain styles (heading 1, 2, etc.) 


It is not necessary. Since the list is exported as nested [ul]s, you 
can use css directly on the structure. For example

ul ul { color: red}

ul ul ul { font-size: smaller}
6790

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drifting structure - Loss of enumeration

 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, bblackmoor wrote:

> So what's the deal with the randomly-rearranging, spontaneously
> duplicating outline items? Is there a fix? A workaround? Something?

	Shadow Plan (handheld) is very stable and solid. The conduit (part
of the desktop) is much less refined, as it is younger, and quite honestly
has had much less effort and fixes applied to it, for all sorts of very
specific logical reasons. (ie: Supporting a half dozen Palm OS varients is
rough, but doign a half dozen desktops as well, is brutal. So I have opted
to alternate between the two, and I've given the lions share to the
handheld to get it to the maturity and feature-rich state it is in now).
However, I realize I've left the conduit too long, and it is getting the
lions share of time for the upcoming months.

> I paid for Shadow Plan a while back, but I've only started using it
> heavily recently. I would like to become dependent on it -- when it
> works, it's a great help. But this bug is just too much to deal with.

	Duplication occurs in two ways,

	1) If you are synching one desktop with your handheld, then it
shoudl only occur when you change an item on both sides and Shadow keeps
both copies to ensure you lose no data.

	2) If you're synching on multiple desktops, Shadow conduit often
gets confused about the "origin of current truth" and when confused, it
keeps both items to protecxt you. It is too trigger happy about being
paranoid, however.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6791

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:19pm
Subject: Re: Col-bg problem

 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, wvit wrote:

> Hi, in the preference there is an option Col-bg. If set the row will have a 
> background color. My problem is I don't like the current color (light 
> blue). Can I change it, please?

	Not yet; I intend on someday adding colour or theme support, but
you cannot as yet.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6792

From: Brandon Blackmoor  <bblackmoor@b...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drifting structure - Loss of enumeration

 
Quoting Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>:
> 
> If you're synching on multiple desktops, Shadow conduit
> often gets confused about the "origin of current truth"

This describes my situation: one palmtop, two desktops.

Should I just disable the conduit(s) and the desktop app(s), for the time being?

bblackmoor@b...
2002-08-16
6793

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Datebk5 advance; Lifebalance leadtime and Shadow dates

 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, neilbothams wrote:

> Am I missing something?  Each program seems to have its own way of 
> handling deadlines and other dates on todos.

	Correct; they're all different applications :)

> Datebk5 - each todo has a date and you can set an advance date.  Also
> tracks overdue by x days.
> 
> Lifebalance - can set a leadtime. A task appears before its deadline
> if a leadtime has been set. Also overdue flag.
> 
> Can these be exchanged in any way with Shadow dates?  As far as I can
> see only the target date is exchanged.

	We're all ratehr hoping that OS5 and OS6 will make for a better
system; see, Shadow has too many features to keep thjem in the built-in
very limited database. So does Life Balance. DateBk[45] is essentially a
replacement for the built in apps, and he's done some very cool stuff by
sneaking things into the built in database, since he needs much less ...
meta-data than us and can get away with it more as a result. Also, he
likes to play in the built in databases, whereas I prefer not to make a
mess of them :) Anyway, to talk to DateBk, we must talk via the built-ins,
which support only one date. (Other dates for DateBk are supported through
adding "stuff" into the Note field of the built in databases record). That
is a DateBk specific extension. Since every app does things differently,
it is a lot of work for multiple apps to support multiple other apps
specific extensions. Its a side effect of the fact that we all talk
together *at all* which is amazing, but the trick can only be taken so
far.

	In theory, OS6 or the like will offer a standard extension
mechanism, so that we can all talk together in the same well defined
way. As is, we all have to learn each others interfaces, which is
impossible (ie: Sure, DateBk, Shadow, LB, Progect, Bonsai, Docs to Go,
etc, are all the big guys. But you can see, right off the top, theres a
dozen of us, so youre' talking dozens of people talking dozens of
extension systems....)

	So, in essence, its tough :)

	I may start talking more DateBk'isms, but I'm leaving that until
later -- I dislike supporting one guys extensions when there are things to
do yet that help all my users, instead of a subset..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6794

From: mcmug1997  <Alex.Fung.Ho-san+yahoo@g...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:26pm
Subject: suggestion: priority default for New Item

 
Currently, you set the default priority of new items as a global 
preference.

I am curious why nobody found it annoying. Perhaps only I work this 
way.

I sort the list by priority, and enabled the auto-resort. When I add 
an item, I typically highlight an existing item near the location I 
what the new item to appear. I tap the "new item" icon. The mini-edit 
window appear. I type the title and tap the tick sign.

If you have the same settings as described above and perform the same 
procedure, you would end up, like me, with the nasty surprise that 
the new item was not added at the place you highlighed, but somewhere 
else. For me, it is at the end of the list. For the new item takes 
the priority from the preference setting, and is immediately sorted 
to its new location.

My default priority is "-", making it worse, for the new item goes to 
the end of the list. Probably I need to change the setting. Yet I 
think a better setting (for me at least) would be "default priority = 
highlighted item". This will make the new item adjacent to the 
highlighted item (I hope, for it is what happens if you disable auto-
sort).

Suggstion: new choice for "default priority of new items", value= 
highlighted item. 

What if one choose this setting and there isn't any highlighted item? 
I don't know. perhaps a second default, or always "-", or always the 
first visible item...
6795

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, grn_white wrote:

> Point well taken, I am sorry I am a little grumpy today, it just seems 
> this group sometimes goes off on tangents - which may be relevant to 
> some users but not all.

	What, us, on tangents? Never! :)

	Discussion is good; we can stay on Shadow topics, or even other
things as long as we don't get out of hand. As long as we're all friends
here, learning and experimenting and growing, its good :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6796

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: Critical Path Analysis

 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Earthlink wrote:

> you did notice that Jeff CHOSE to build both the hh and the desktop
> didn't you?

	*teehee* Can of worms :)

	I know the division of the handheld and desktop is blurry, and
I've built both in a pretty open and modular way so they can share back
and forth, and do lots of things. I also know that the desktop has a long
"code lifespan" potentially, in that if I write it well, its code can live
for a long long time. The handheld will have to go throgh many major
thrusts, and is very much tied to the platform, which may change quickly
as PDAs are still very new. The desktop can potentially support Shadow
Plan versions on other handheld types (since it talks mostly via XML), and
I hope to someday bring Shadow Desktop to the level of being its own full
blooded application. Lots of plans. I think ahead. However, only one body
and only 24 hours in the day, damnit ;)

	I'm staying out of the C.P.A "discussion"; I'm super busy right
now, and trying to get away for a few days, but I'll poke in a few
comments here or there.. :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6797

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:34pm
Subject: Re: Desktop feature request- HTML styles?

 
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, madmaxmedia wrote:

> Perhaps this has been requested already, but I'd like the HTML export
> files to contain styles (heading 1, 2, etc.) That would allow me to
> tweak the display format very easily.

	If you have suggestions for it all, let me know in
shadow-developer and/or shadow-desktop. I was planning on adjusting the
HTML to be better XHTML friendly, but not too many changes otherwise. Make
it look better of course ;) The XML is there for major tweaking by the
suave, and it is defined on the website.

> I find the HTML export great for printing large files, or sharing info
> with others (non PDA owners.) I just can't easily re-format them.

	Do you speak XML, or just HTML? Spitting out complex CSS documents
could cause issues with older browsers..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6798

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 3:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drifting structure - Loss of enumeration

 
On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Brandon Blackmoor wrote:

> > If you're synching on multiple desktops, Shadow conduit
> > often gets confused about the "origin of current truth"
> 
> This describes my situation: one palmtop, two desktops.
> 
> Should I just disable the conduit(s) and the desktop app(s), for the
> time being?

	If its being particularly nasty for you, then yes, thats an option
that would alleviate that problem at the cost of your desktop :( (You can,
however, use the desktop in a brutal way by editting PDB's directly,
though this isn't the most tried and true way of doing things. Notice the
open PDB and save-as-PDB operations).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6799

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:15pm
Subject: Re: suggestion: priority default for New Item

 
"Currently, you set the default priority of new items as a global
preference.

I am curious why nobody found it annoying. Perhaps only I work this
way.

I sort the list by priority, and enabled the auto-resort. When I add
an item, I typically highlight an existing item near the location I
what the new item to appear. I tap the "new item" icon. The mini-edit
window appear. I type the title and tap the tick sign.

If you have the same settings as described above and perform the same
procedure, you would end up, like me, with the nasty surprise that
the new item was not added at the place you highlighed, but somewhere
else. For me, it is at the end of the list. For the new item takes
the priority from the preference setting, and is immediately sorted
to its new location.

My default priority is "-", making it worse, for the new item goes to
the end of the list. Probably I need to change the setting. Yet I
think a better setting (for me at least) would be "default priority =
highlighted item". This will make the new item adjacent to the
highlighted item (I hope, for it is what happens if you disable auto-
sort).

Suggstion: new choice for "default priority of new items", value=
highlighted item.

What if one choose this setting and there isn't any highlighted item?
I don't know. perhaps a second default, or always "-", or always the
first visible item..."
______________

Since you're using the ME, just hit the "D" to go to details and set the
priority to what you want it to be (4 taps total). I have the same issue
with filtering by Tag, I add an item and it would disappear. Once you get
used to it, it's really no big deal. If you're sorting or filtering on an
attribute, no default is ever going to be good enough. Hope this helps.

Scott
6800

From: kentprim  <kent.primrose@b...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 6:57pm
Subject: Request: "New items take sibling's TAGS"

 
I'm using ShadowPlan to organize todo items by tagging them with 
multiple tags. The good news is that this allows me to keep track of 
all todo items related to a particular project, all things I need to 
do today, all things I need to do on the phone, etc. The bad news is 
that this requires putting 2-4 tags on each item. ShadowPlan has 
some excellent features that make this not too difficult, but I'd 
like to make it even easier.

There's currently a check box in the "List Options" screen for "New 
items take sibling's view". How tough would it be to add an 
additional option, "New items take sibling's tags"?

For example, suppose I had an item called "dentist: appt" 
with "gHome", "pHealth" and "tDay" tags added. If the "New items 
take sibling's tags" option were checked, and I added a new item 
called "doctor: appt", it would already have the 
tags "gHome", "pHealth", and "tDay" attached. If necessary I could 
remove the "tDay" tag, but it would still be less work. When I'm 
planning a multi-step project, I find myself going through the same 
repetitive actions to add tags to each item over and over.

I hope this is a very minor enhancement, because it would be a very 
major improvement given the way I'm using Shadow Plan.

Thanks!
Kent
6801

From: Kevin Brown  <zephyr@t...>
Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 8:38pm
Subject: Tags and Parents

 
Is there a way to hide untagged parents when filtering a list by tags?

I have a list of projects with an item for each project and sub-tasks as 
children. I'd like to be able to create a filter that shows me only the first 
task that I need to do on each of my projects. I can assign a tag called "next 
action" to the first task under each project, but if I filter by that tag my 
list still shows the parents, even though they don't have tags.

If there's no way to suppress the parents, I guess it's a feature request. I'm 
sure there must be other situations where this would come in handy as well. 
(Of course, if it's a feature request, what I'd really want is some sort of 
fancy next action filter -- but I expect that's a bit too specialized.) 
 
--
Kevin Brown
Somewhere on Earth via webmail
mailto:zephyr@t...
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