From: grizzjunkie  <doug809@h...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 10:32pm
Subject: Re: Zoom

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

 
> 	Zoom is a 3 state operation; zoom in, zoom in again, or
> unzoom. Given a zoom state and a hit to /Z, you cannot tell if you 
wisht o
> zoom in more, or unzoom. So we'd need at least two zoom shortcuts..
> 
> 		jeff


I think it could work with just one shortcut ...  because you anyway 
have to select a child item if you want to zoom in deeper.  So the 
logic would be that if a child item is selected, then /Z would zoom 
in again, but if no item is selected, then /Z would unzoom. 

In any case, I agree that zooming ahead with the desktop and conduit 
development is more important! ;)

Thanks for listening,
Doug

From: deepthought_st  <lists-yahoo@x...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 0:05am
Subject: Re: My Wishlist and a Question

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, deepthought_st wrote:
> 
> > 1. Hierarchical tag support
> 	Not going to happen anytime soon :)

I figured as much...I'll keep asking, though. ;)

> > 2. Assign a given tag to more than one category or hierarchy
> 
> 	Why not keep the tag in a "Common" category? :)

I could do this, but it becomes a cumbersome mesh of varying 
contexts.  I'd end up with a "Common" category filled with people 
tags, place tags, topic tags, etc.  Also, it separate some of my 
items from others (which makes things confusing).  For (a perhaps 
cheesy) example, I've got two categories named "Friends" 
and "Business Contacts".  One of my friends is also a business 
contact.  I could move his name to the "Common" category, but now 
I've got to look three different places to find his name (because 
I'll never remember where I put it).  On the other hand, if I was 
able to reference the same tag from both places, I could look it up 
from either location...handy for cross-referencing things under 
different topics.

> > 3. Support "groups" of tags such that you are only allowed to 
assign 
> > one of the tags from that group
> 
> 	Oh deer, what have I done? :)

Hehe...you knew you were asking for it.  ;)

> > 4. Assign tags to a list (and be able to filter the list of 
lists by 
> > tags)...at this point, are categories necessary?
> 
> 	Categories are a simple mechanism common to all palm 
applications,
> pretty much. I think they're good to keep around.

Yeah...you're probably right.  On the other hand, if enough people 
evangelized your tag concepts, perhaps a group of vendors could 
rally around it and share a common tag implementation?  If everyone 
standardized on something like it, we could get rid of the lousy 
categories.  <hint, hint>  Of course, this probably devalues your 
app if this feature became globally available, but it's better for 
the users.  Drat...I hate competing interests.  :)

> > 5. Change the dropdown arrow in the upper right of a list to 
allow 
> > quick filtering via a given tag
> 	I'm tempted to have a option (udner Tools?) called "Tag 
Filter
> Wizard", which would let you pick a tag and then it would drop 
current
> filter, and create a new (unsaved) filter that would select items
> featuring the picked tag. But I know right away you'd want to be 
able to
> pick multiple tags, so it's work :/

Even if you implement multiple tags, I will come at you with more 
requests!  :p  Multiple tags would definitely be my next request, 
but I'd be more than happy to settle for single tags at first.  This 
would obviously only make sense to do if it supported the ability to 
scale to multiple tag support in the future.  I'd personally prefer 
to have access to the Tag Filter Wizard via a button on the list 
screen, but I can live with a menu option if necessary.  :)

> > CUSTOM LISTS AND SORTING
> 
> > 1. Show sort indicator on titlebar (could be a problem for 
narrow 
> > columns, though)
> 
> 	View, Filter, Sort A, Dir, Sort B, Dir. Its probably too 
much to
> show in the tbar.

I completely missed the sort menu, so I didn't realize the multiple 
sort issue.  I was referring to when I click on the title bar.  At 
that point, I'm doing a simple sort on a single column.  Would it 
make sense to show the arrow for a simple, single-column sort, but 
not for multiple column sorts?

> > 2. Add Start Date and Finish Date to the columns that can be 
> > displayed (which can thus be sorted upon).
> 
> 	yeah. Remind me. I'd like to add this, since now you can 
attach
> them to views so it'd be okay to flip between them as needed.

Drat...obviously this request was too simple.  I'll have to work on 
my technique.  :)

> > 3. Allow sorting via a non-displayed field
> 
> 	You can, via the Sort menu. It doesnt' care what you have
> displayed. The tbar only shows you the titles of columns you have, 
so only
> lets you sort on those columns.

My bad.  :)

> > CUSTOM FILTERS AND LINKING
> > ===============================
> > 1. Add ability to edit custom filter rule
> 	Yeah; remind me.

Another easy one, I see... :)

> > 2. Support linking to a custom view or filtered list
> 
> 	What do you mean?
<snip/>
> 	I'm lost.

    My plan is succeeding!  ;)  So...hmm...when I select an item, 
and then go to the Link Manager for that item, the first option 
is "File link" which allows me to link to another Shadow file.  
That's all fine and dandy, but it has the following problems:

a) *All* of my Shadow files are listed irrespective of what category 
they are in.
     If I have hundreds of Shadow files, that means wading through 
all of them, instead of wading through perhaps 10 categories, and 
then 10 lists.
     I want to be able to narrow down the Shadow file list that is 
shown by selecting a category to display.

b) After assigning the link, when I follow it, it just takes me to 
that file.
     This is fine, but I've defined a bunch of cool filters and 
views that I want to take advantage of.  I want to be able to create 
a File link that will launch the file with a Filter and View of my 
choosing.  This way, I can create a list of links that launches my 
files with "Cool Filter A" and an additional set of links that 
launches my files with "Cool Filter B" + "Cool View 1".

Is that clearer?

> > 3. Double-tap on link indicator should traverse the link rather 
than 
> > take you to the link manager
> 	Not useful, since you can have many links. And no, having it 
work
> when you have one link, and not work for many, is uncool.

Hehe...sounds like you've been approached with that before.  :)
> 
> >     Once I've established the link, I'm far more likely to want 
to 
> > traverse the link rather than modify the link.  Of course, it 
would 
> > also be nice if I could actually set the double-tap 
functionality 
> > for the line item to traverse the link (rather than go to 
details).
> 
> 	UI's must be consistent. Having it work differently on each 
line
> would drive you nuts.

I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree with you here.  UI's only 
have to be consistent with my expectations.  If *you* caused it to 
work differently on each line, that would drive me nuts.  If *I* 
caused it to work differently on each line, *and* I had some kind of 
indicator that let me know what was going on, I'd be fine with it.  
For instance, Shadow already has this so-called UI inconsistency via 
the item type selection.  I can go to the details of any given item, 
dropdown that type selector in the upper-right corner, pick a new 
type, and click OK.  Now, I've got a line that is different from all 
the others.  Am I uncomfortable with that?  No...because a) I 
changed it myself (on purpose) and b) The line looks different now 
in some way that lets me know that I'm dealing with something 
different here.

It's kind of like a good web link...it might still be text, but you 
can tell that it's a link, too.  If I had the option to make the 
default double-tap action for an item be to open the list of links 
(if more than one) or to go to the only link, and it made the line 
look slightly different if that option was set (different color, 
underline, little symbol...something...anything), I'd be all over it 
(and using it like crazy).

> > That's it for my list for now.  Of course, I also want a nice 
desktop
> > :), but it seems like some of these could affect desktop
> > implementation (assuming they interest you, of course)...
> 
> 	You're a wicked and dangerous man!

I merely want the world.  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

> > In addition, I do have one question regarding linking...
> > 
> > If I have a link to another Shadow list, is there a quick and 
easy way
> > to jump back to where I came from?  I couldn't seem to find it...
> 
> 	The Recent Files popup is pretty handy; you can obtain it 
many
> ways. If Shadow is bound to a hardkey, push it. Theres a shortcut 
and a
> menu item for it, and I think its udner [V] too.

Hmm...I'll take a look.

Thanks!

-- 
Sean T.

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 2:02am
Subject: Re: Tag Thoughts

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Learned wrote:
> 
> > Currently, if I select a tag from the link popup, it takes me to
the
> > tag manager. Wouldn't it make more sense to take me to the link
> > manager, so I could alter the tags if desired?
> 
> 	Not sure; what is more useful? (ie: To add/remove the tag from
> existance, or to add/remove it from the item?) I guess LM may be
more
> appropriate.
> 
> 		jeff
> 

2 cents worth ... coming up...

I admit that at first I was torn.  However, after a relatively short
period, I find that creating new tags only comes in spurts, and more
often than not, what I want is to add or remove tags.

I would vote for Link Manager.

Ken

From: Jon Hind  <lists@j...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 8:16am
Subject: Silly Question

How do I synch shadow to todo ?

I know I can import and make links from shadow.

But if I make a todo in Outlook or datebk, how can I ensure that it 
appears in shadow. I suspect the answer is that you can't.

Or I'm thick.
--
 Jon Hind, jon@j... on 2002/07/17



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: kentprim  <kent.primrose@b...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 10:23am
Subject: Re: Silly Question

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jon Hind <lists@j...> wrote:
> How do I synch shadow to todo ?

I use the "Auto-import from To Do list" feature. I have a particular 
ShadowPlan file that I use for managing ToDo items named "GTD". I've 
created a palm shortcut that pastes "[[[GTD]]]" and assigned this to 
a single letter ("x") to make it very easy to enter. Whenever I'm 
creating a ToDo item from another program, I first enter "shortcut-
x" to paste this text, then go on with the ToDo item normally. Then, 
occasionally when I'm in ShadowPlan I exit to List view and 
run "Import MarkedToDos" from the menu. The marked ToDo's are 
imported into the "GTD" list, and the ugly "[[[GTD]]]" mark is 
removed.

It's a bit awkward, and I haven't yet really built the habit of 
always putting the mark on the front of the ToDo, but it works.

Hope that helps,
Kent

From: deepthought_st  <lists-yahoo@x...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 4:42pm
Subject: Scrollbar Problems

I'm running Shadow 2.5 in mixed mode resolution on an N760.  I've 
got my scrollbar set to show on the left, and when I've got a note 
attached to a fairly long item, the note icon is showing up 
underneath the scrollbar (ie. I can see it there, but I can't expand 
it).  This appears to mostly happen when the item length is long 
enough to require wrapping to the next line.

Also, if I do a "page down" by tapping on the lower half of the 
scrollbar, it's skipping a line (ie. it's one below the bottom line 
prior to scrolling and one above the top line after scrolling), so I 
have to scroll back a line to see it.  I missed a few things I was 
working on at first because of this...

Thanks!

-- 
Sean T.

From: deepthought_st  <lists-yahoo@x...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:18pm
Subject: More Tag Stuff

Since there isn't any hierarchical tag support (please please), I'm 
finding myself with some rather long tag names.  I've got the Tag 
showing through a custom view, and when I click on it to add a tag, 
the long tag names are getting cut off, and it's hard to distinguish 
some of them.  Could this perhaps auto-size to accomodate the size 
of the largest tag?  If not, could I talk you into making this 
selection window slightly bigger?

Also, clicking the down arrow a bunch of times to scroll through all 
of the tags is beginning to get cumbersome.  Would it be possible to 
allow me to use graffiti to quickly jump to a section when the tag 
selection popup is open.  For example, if I graffiti an 'S', it 
should jump to the first tag that starts with an S (within the 
category I've already selected, of course).  Then, if I graffiti 
an 'E', it should jump to the first item that starts with 'SE' (or 
remain where it is if there isn't one).  If I then graffiti a 
backspace (backstroke?), it should jump back to the first item that 
started with an 'S'.  If nothing else, being able to jump to the 
first letter would save a significant amount of time.

Also, in mixed mode resolution, I've found myself accidentally 
assigning tags to the wrong item.  I clicked on an item (and 
therefore had it selected), but when I clicked over in the tag 
section, I accidentally clicked slightly too high, but there was no 
visual indication that I had switched rows.  It would be nice if 
this would change the row selection, so I realize what I've done.  
A "margin of error" for the selected row might be nice, too, for 
those items that require some kind of click selection (priority, 
tags, etc).

-- 
Sean T. - Doing my small part to contribute to Jeff's ever-expanding 
ToDo list.  ;)

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:03pm
Subject: Re: Silly Question

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Hind wrote:

> How do I synch shadow to todo ?
> 
> I know I can import and make links from shadow.
> 
> But if I make a todo in Outlook or datebk, how can I ensure that it 
> appears in shadow. I suspect the answer is that you can't.

	Using Shadow Plan 2.5, you can do "auto imports"; see the Ref
Guide, but in short; you can put [[[filename]]] at the front of a ToDo,
then ask Shadow to bring in so-marked ToDos. The filename need not be
complete.. just unique.

	(Otherwise, how would Shadow know where to put the items?)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Silly Question

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, kentprim wrote:

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jon Hind <lists@j...> wrote:
> > How do I synch shadow to todo ?
> 
> I use the "Auto-import from To Do list" feature. I have a particular 
> ShadowPlan file that I use for managing ToDo items named "GTD". I've 
> created a palm shortcut that pastes "[[[GTD]]]" and assigned this to 
> a single letter ("x") to make it very easy to enter. Whenever I'm 
> creating a ToDo item from another program, I first enter "shortcut-
> x" to paste this text, then go on with the ToDo item normally. Then, 
> occasionally when I'm in ShadowPlan I exit to List view and 
> run "Import MarkedToDos" from the menu. The marked ToDo's are 
> imported into the "GTD" list, and the ugly "[[[GTD]]]" mark is 
> removed.

	Send this over to shadow-tips?

	Pretty good advice!

> It's a bit awkward, and I haven't yet really built the habit of always
> putting the mark on the front of the ToDo, but it works.

	Using a keyboard it could work pretty well; paste, type type,
next..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Scrollbar Problems

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, deepthought_st wrote:

> I'm running Shadow 2.5 in mixed mode resolution on an N760.  I've got
> my scrollbar set to show on the left, and when I've got a note
> attached to a fairly long item, the note icon is showing up underneath
> the scrollbar (ie. I can see it there, but I can't expand it).  This
> appears to mostly happen when the item length is long enough to
> require wrapping to the next line.

	Do a test; its fine if the note icon is on the left half of the
screen; try lengthening the item text so the note icon is 3/4 across, and
then nearly over the edge, and then wrapped. At what point does the note
icon go funny?

> Also, if I do a "page down" by tapping on the lower half of the
> scrollbar, it's skipping a line (ie. it's one below the bottom line
> prior to scrolling and one above the top line after scrolling), so I
> have to scroll back a line to see it.  I missed a few things I was
> working on at first because of this...

	Do you have the titlebar on?

	Does anyone else see this?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:08pm
Subject: Re: More Tag Stuff

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, deepthought_st wrote:

> Since there isn't any hierarchical tag support (please please), I'm
> finding myself with some rather long tag names.  I've got the Tag
> showing through a custom view, and when I click on it to add a tag,
> the long tag names are getting cut off, and it's hard to distinguish
> some of them.  Could this perhaps auto-size to accomodate the size of
> the largest tag?  If not, could I talk you into making this selection
> window slightly bigger?

	Which window?

> Also, clicking the down arrow a bunch of times to scroll through all
> of the tags is beginning to get cumbersome.  Would it be possible to
> allow me to use graffiti to quickly jump to a section when the tag
> selection popup is open.  For example, if I graffiti an 'S', it should
> jump to the first tag that starts with an S (within the category I've

	Its an OS widget; this would require some trickery to do, so it'll
have to wait.

	Does page up/down hardbuttons work?

> Also, in mixed mode resolution, I've found myself accidentally
> assigning tags to the wrong item.  I clicked on an item (and therefore
> had it selected), but when I clicked over in the tag section, I
> accidentally clicked slightly too high, but there was no visual
> indication that I had switched rows.  It would be nice if this would
> change the row selection, so I realize what I've done.  A "margin of
> error" for the selected row might be nice, too, for those items that
> require some kind of click selection (priority, tags, etc).

	Margin of error can't be done, since how woudl it know if you
intended to pick the other row or not. You could use a larger font choice
to be in mixed-res-mode, but nonetheless with a little bigger font (the
default is mega teeny!)

	So a line reversal after the tap but before the popup?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 7:32pm
Subject: A tip challenge?

I thought it might be a good time to spruce up the shadow-tips
database a little..

	I'm sure everyone has their own little tips and tricks to help
solve every day problems of theirs, or to accelerate their Shadow Plan use
for a given business case or life problem or the like. Write those ideas
down in a way other Shadow plan users can follow, and maybe we can build
up the shadow-tips database a little and all learn something from the
exercise. (Especially where interaction with other applications is
concerned.. always a complex task to do well! And what about all this GtD
stuff?!)

	I know, we're all busy people!

	So how about you submit your shadow-tips until the end of next
month (end of August), and sometime in the first week of September we can
have a vote on favourite shadow-tip submissions and I'll give the top few
of the posters a small prize. Shadow Plan revision of reference would be
Shadow Plan 2.5 (so you can use tags and custom filters and such).

	Prize would be some piece of Palm OS software of choice within the
reasonable price range of $24.99 or less, give or take. A game or utility
or whatever. Prizes only awarded if we get a decent number of tips..
ideally a pile of them, but at least 20 different people!

	A good idea for some quick summer fun? I guess if you like thjis
idea, I'll repost in GtD-Palm.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: deepthought_st  <lists-yahoo@x...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:47pm
Subject: Re: More Tag Stuff

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, deepthought_st wrote:
> 
> > Since there isn't any hierarchical tag support (please please), 
I'm
> > finding myself with some rather long tag names.  I've got the Tag
> > showing through a custom view, and when I click on it to add a 
tag,
> > the long tag names are getting cut off, and it's hard to 
distinguish
> > some of them.  Could this perhaps auto-size to accomodate the 
size of
> > the largest tag?  If not, could I talk you into making this 
selection
> > window slightly bigger?
> 
> 	Which window?

I click the Tag column, select "Add Tag", and then choose the Tag 
category I want to work with.  All the tags I can choose are then 
shown, and this is the window I'd like to be wider, so I can see the 
full tag name.
 
> > Also, clicking the down arrow a bunch of times to scroll through 
all
> > of the tags is beginning to get cumbersome.  Would it be 
possible to
> > allow me to use graffiti to quickly jump to a section when the 
tag
> > selection popup is open.  For example, if I graffiti an 'S', it 
should
> > jump to the first tag that starts with an S (within the category 
I've
> 
> 	Its an OS widget; this would require some trickery to do, so 
it'll
> have to wait.
> 
> 	Does page up/down hardbuttons work?

Yes, they do...much faster (and less error prone).  (Graffiti would 
be nice, eventually).  :)

> 
> > Also, in mixed mode resolution, I've found myself accidentally
> > assigning tags to the wrong item.  I clicked on an item (and 
therefore
> > had it selected), but when I clicked over in the tag section, I
> > accidentally clicked slightly too high, but there was no visual
> > indication that I had switched rows.  It would be nice if this 
would
> > change the row selection, so I realize what I've done.  
A "margin of
> > error" for the selected row might be nice, too, for those items 
that
> > require some kind of click selection (priority, tags, etc).
> 
> 	Margin of error can't be done, since how woudl it know if you
> intended to pick the other row or not. You could use a larger font 
choice
> to be in mixed-res-mode, but nonetheless with a little bigger font 
(the
> default is mega teeny!)
> 
> 	So a line reversal after the tap but before the popup?

That would be great!

-- 
Sean T.

From: deepthought_st  <lists-yahoo@x...>
Date: Wed Jul 17, 2002 9:54pm
Subject: Re: Scrollbar Problems

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, deepthought_st wrote:
> 
> > I'm running Shadow 2.5 in mixed mode resolution on an N760.  
I've got
> > my scrollbar set to show on the left, and when I've got a note
> > attached to a fairly long item, the note icon is showing up 
underneath
> > the scrollbar (ie. I can see it there, but I can't expand it).  
This
> > appears to mostly happen when the item length is long enough to
> > require wrapping to the next line.
> 
> 	Do a test; its fine if the note icon is on the left half of 
the
> screen; try lengthening the item text so the note icon is 3/4 
across, and
> then nearly over the edge, and then wrapped. At what point does 
the note
> icon go funny?

A few characters before the line wraps, the icon moves over to the 
left side of the screen (underneath the scrollbar).  If I type a few 
more characters (before it wraps), the icon pushes out a bit to 
where I can access it (still on the left).  As soon as the line 
wraps, the icon moves back underneath the scrollbar.

> 
> > Also, if I do a "page down" by tapping on the lower half of the
> > scrollbar, it's skipping a line (ie. it's one below the bottom 
line
> > prior to scrolling and one above the top line after scrolling), 
so I
> > have to scroll back a line to see it.  I missed a few things I 
was
> > working on at first because of this...
> 
> 	Do you have the titlebar on?

Yes, I do.

Thanks!

-- 
Sean T.

From: Byron Allgood  <1POPOLO@P...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:47am
Subject: RE:Prize idea?

24.99.....Hmmmmm what could that buy.....I know a copy of BONSAI!!!!!  :)

(Sure glad you dont have insecurity problems like the people at Actionnames.
I'd get the boot for a comment like that.)

Message: 9
   Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:32:43 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: A tip challenge?
	Prize would be some piece of Palm OS software of choice within the
reasonable price range of $24.99 or less, give or take. A game or utility
or whatever. Prizes only awarded if we get a decent number of tips..
ideally a pile of them, but at least 20 different people!



		jeff

From: jonaz  <jonaz.list@d...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 8:03am
Subject: Re: Setting prefs for addr/memo linking?

No memory stick or anything "whacky"... 

oh well - back to desktop dev now... ;-)

/jonaz

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	Is the receiving app on a memory stick or anything? You using
> PiDirect or PowerRun or anything whacky?
> 
> 	ie: Since other prefs work, this works. Set Program stores the
> selected prog "id" in Shadow prefs, which you say are working. The only
> way those app prefs get reset is if the apps are missing when you lauynch
> Shadow...
> 
> > > 	Which unit and OS revision?
> > IBM WorkPad c3 (equiv. Palm V) w/ PalmOS v.3.5.3
> 
> 	Whacky. IIIc definitely works 100%.
> 
> > Thanks for taking your time helping to sort this out. I'm not actually
> > needing the functionality in MemoPLUS _that_ much from Shadow since
> > that's more "looking up". So I could live with being sent to the
> > built-in memo app. Pehaps your time could be better spend on the
> > desktop-alpha for mac... ;-)
> 
> 	heh :)
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Scrollbar Problems

On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, deepthought_st wrote:

> A few characters before the line wraps, the icon moves over to the
> left side of the screen (underneath the scrollbar).  If I type a few
> more characters (before it wraps), the icon pushes out a bit to where
> I can access it (still on the left).  As soon as the line wraps, the
> icon moves back underneath the scrollbar.

	Think I've got it fixed in upcoming release, now.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: mhdickens  <mkdickens@a...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 2:44pm
Subject: Greater visibility of custom tags ...

SP filtering by custom tags is wonderful but what would make SP even
more useful to me would be greater visibility of custom tags both
within SP and without.

For instance how easy would it be to make tags visible to a Palm OS
"find" ?

In addition to this it would be useful to have some method of finding
and moving to records with specific tags attached within a single SP
file or category or even globally across all SP files. Something akin
to an "(Only/Additionally) Include tags in search" check-box perhaps ?


Mark

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:02pm
Subject: [shadow-tips] Greater visibility of custom tags .. (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:40:36 -0000
From: mhdickens <mkdickens@a...>
Reply-To: shadow-tips@yahoogroups.com
To: shadow-tips@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-tips] Greater visibility of custom tags ..

SP filtering by custom tags is wonderful but what would make SP even
more useful to me would be greater visibility of custom tags both
within SP and without.

For instance how easy would it be to make tags visible to a Palm OS
"find" ?

In addition to this it would be useful to have some method of finding
and moving to records with specific tags attached within a single SP
file or category or even globally across all SP files. Something akin
to an "(Only/Additionally) Include tags in search" check-box perhaps ?


Mark

From: fiatspider72  <jphillips@p...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:11pm
Subject: Re: A tip challenge?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I thought it might be a good time to spruce up the shadow-tips
> database a little..
> 

Are we to submit the tips to shadow-discuss or shadow-tips?

 - Jeramy

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: A tip challenge?

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	I thought it might be a good time to spruce up the shadow-tips
> > database a little..
> 
> Are we to submit the tips to shadow-discuss or shadow-tips?

	shadow-tips; post good solid ideas that you use all the time that
you think others can use. Like How-Tos -- not questions or discvussion,
but a good idea you think will benefit others. Just send it in through
shadow-tips, and when judge time comes around, I'll list them all off,
make a poll, and you can all vote :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Frederick G. Turner  <fred@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:28pm
Subject: RE: Silly Question

Have you considered setting up a to-do template in DateBk4/5 in order to
automate this?  It would save a lot of time!

Fred.

>    Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:23:52 -0000
>    From: "kentprim" <kent.primrose@b...>
> Subject: Re: Silly Question
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jon Hind <lists@j...> wrote:
> > How do I synch shadow to todo ?
> 
> I use the "Auto-import from To Do list" feature. I have a particular 
> ShadowPlan file that I use for managing ToDo items named "GTD". I've 
> created a palm shortcut that pastes "[[[GTD]]]" and assigned this to 
> a single letter ("x") to make it very easy to enter. Whenever I'm 
> creating a ToDo item from another program, I first enter 
> "shortcut- x" to paste this text, then go on with the ToDo 
> item normally. Then, 
> occasionally when I'm in ShadowPlan I exit to List view and 
> run "Import MarkedToDos" from the menu. The marked ToDo's are 
> imported into the "GTD" list, and the ugly "[[[GTD]]]" mark is 
> removed.
> 
> It's a bit awkward, and I haven't yet really built the habit of 
> always putting the mark on the front of the ToDo, but it works.
> 
> Hope that helps,
> Kent

From: jeff.resener@s...
Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:58pm
Subject: Word Wrap Toggle

Just back from some vacation. Loaded up 2.5, looks great...but I was
disappointed to see that you didn't include the WordWrap toggle under the
"v" menu as was talked about in the past. (And I think I saw it on your
todo list somewhat high up). When reviewing my work and planning I like to
see the full description of the tasks, and to do so, I have to go
Menu>List>Preferences>Opt>uncheck word wrap>OK>OK and then repeat once my
planning/review is complete. Or have you put it in there somewhere else and
I don't see it?
Thanks, great job Jeff
jeff

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:29am
Subject: Re: Word Wrap Toggle

On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 jeff.resener@s... wrote:

> Just back from some vacation. Loaded up 2.5, looks great...but I was
> disappointed to see that you didn't include the WordWrap toggle under the
> "v" menu as was talked about in the past. (And I think I saw it on your
> todo list somewhat high up). When reviewing my work and planning I like to
> see the full description of the tasks, and to do so, I have to go
> Menu>List>Preferences>Opt>uncheck word wrap>OK>OK and then repeat once my
> planning/review is complete. Or have you put it in there somewhere else and
> I don't see it?
> Thanks, great job Jeff

	I'll see if I can get it in for a 2.5 update in a bit; hoping to
get a 2.5 update out middle of next week :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: davidgorecki  <dgorecki@f...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:18am
Subject: PocketPC Version

Hi Jeff,

Any thoughts on creating a PocketPC version of Shadow? I really miss 
it after moving to the "other side". There is a HUGE untapped market 
for a product like yours on that platform.

Thanks
David

From: mhdickens  <mkdickens@a...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:18am
Subject: Re: Word Wrap Toggle

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 jeff.resener@s... wrote:
> 
> > Just back from some vacation. Loaded up 2.5, looks great...but I was
> > disappointed to see that you didn't include the WordWrap toggle
under the
> > "v" menu as was talked about in the past. (And I think I saw it on
your
> > todo list somewhat high up). When reviewing my work and planning I
like to
> > see the full description of the tasks, and to do so, I have to go
> > Menu>List>Preferences>Opt>uncheck word wrap>OK>OK and then repeat
once my
> > planning/review is complete. Or have you put it in there somewhere
else and
> > I don't see it?
> > Thanks, great job Jeff
> 
> 	I'll see if I can get it in for a 2.5 update in a bit; hoping to
> get a 2.5 update out middle of next week :)
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

Whilst we're on the subject of "title word wrap", there is IIRC back
in the time I used "Progect" a display preference which would be very
useful in SP. Namely to allow the user to specify HOW MANY lines to
wrap text over. 

Sometimes in SP when I use a not diminutive word in a title the whole
word wraps to the next line losing the meaning of a record when
suppressing title wrap.

Would an easier option be to "allow in-word hypenation" ?

Mark

From: mhdickens  <mkdickens@a...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:21am
Subject: Re: [shadow-tips] Greater visibility of custom tags .. (fwd)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:40:36 -0000
> From: mhdickens <mkdickens@a...>
> Reply-To: shadow-tips@y...
> To: shadow-tips@y...
> Subject: [shadow-tips] Greater visibility of custom tags ..
> 
> SP filtering by custom tags is wonderful but what would make SP even
> more useful to me would be greater visibility of custom tags both
> within SP and without.
> 
> For instance how easy would it be to make tags visible to a Palm OS
> "find" ?
> 
> In addition to this it would be useful to have some method of finding
> and moving to records with specific tags attached within a single SP
> file or category or even globally across all SP files. Something akin
> to an "(Only/Additionally) Include tags in search" check-box perhaps ?
> 
> 
> Mark

Ooops, sorry all for also posting the above to shadow-tips by mistake.

Anyone any feelings on this ?

From: karenhuntca  <karen.hunt@r...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:51am
Subject: zoom

two things I'd like, and a bug? 

If I'm looking at a list of 30 items, say, and I zoom number 25, and 
then unzoom, I'd like to keep my place in the list - i.e. still be at 
number 25 instead of being back at the top of the list...

I'd like a way to make a selected item the top of the screen....  I'm 
scrolling through a list of work items, and  want to reposition my 
view of the list so number 25 is at the top of the screen  view...  
(there are fiddly ways of doing this, of course, I'm looking for a 
quick way)

I have a Clie - I've noticed this when using the jog dial  - usually 
scrolling past the last item on the screen works fine - the next item 
is displayed and highlighted.  but sometimes the display stays the 
same with nothing highlighted , and then I scroll once more, and it 
refreshes with the item past that highlighted, (i.e item 24, no 
change, item 26).

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 0:06pm
Subject: Re: PocketPC Version

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, davidgorecki wrote:

> Any thoughts on creating a PocketPC version of Shadow? I really miss
> it after moving to the "other side". There is a HUGE untapped market
> for a product like yours on that platform.

	I'll probably make a stab at it eventually, but I wish to close up
some of the Shadow Desktop stuff first; ie: Shadow Handheld with 2.5 is
pretty darned solid, and coudl sit for awhile. The Desktop needs some
serious work. The sneaky thign is that the Desktop woudl work with a
Pocket PC version as well. So once I buff up the desktop a little so it
can sit, I'll start working on a PoPC version. Though a PoPC version would
be necessarily different.. I'm not sure I can do everything I can do with
the Palm version, and theres other things I could do that the Palm
couldn't... and when you get to rewrite, after elarning from a prior
platform, its always a different (and hopefully better) toy..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 0:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: [shadow-tips] Greater visibility of custom tags .. (fwd)

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, mhdickens wrote:

> > SP filtering by custom tags is wonderful but what would make SP even
> > more useful to me would be greater visibility of custom tags both
> > within SP and without.
> > 
> > For instance how easy would it be to make tags visible to a Palm OS
> > "find" ?

	It could be trouble; ie: Search a given record for a match, then
search its tags for a match. Could be slow (match tag string to internal
rperesentation, then go through an items tags. When doing an external
Find, we dont' know much about each record.. we just climb through the
text. Climbing through the rest of it would be some special work and a
buig slowish to perform).

	Its possible, but not something I'm looking forward to ;)

> > In addition to this it would be useful to have some method of finding
> > and moving to records with specific tags attached within a single SP
> > file or category or even globally across all SP files. Something akin
> > to an "(Only/Additionally) Include tags in search" check-box perhaps ?

	Use filters so you can match criterion and just see and tap on the
next matching items?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: funfactorde  <FunFactor@g...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 0:40pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

I know I'm a little bit late with my comment ... ;-)

I'd prefer
    -     no links or tags
    ->    links present
   <-     tags present
   <->    tags and links present

or even
    -     no links or tags
    ->    links present
   o-     tags present
   o->    tags and links present

because I can recognize it at one glance. 
If there is only one sign I got to think: 
"<" was that links or tags...

Regards
   Stefan

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "broth123" <broth123@y...> wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:
> > 
> > > >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> > > >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if
just 
> tags are
> > > >   present)?
> > > 
> > > How about using the following:
> > > 
> > >    -     no links or tags
> > >    ->    links present
> > >   <-     tags present
> > >   <->    tags and links present
> > > 
> > > Just a thought...
> > 
> > 	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
> > and/or links?
> > 
> > 	Could be done. Other opinions?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> 
> Only thought is taking up extra character space.  I would try to 
> leave it to one character
> 
>       - No link or tag
>       > Links present
>       < Tag Present
>       + Tags & Links present
> 
> 
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: mhdickens  <mkdickens@a...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 0:48pm
Subject: Re: [shadow-tips] Greater visibility of custom tags .. (fwd)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, mhdickens wrote:
> 
> > > SP filtering by custom tags is wonderful but what would make SP even
> > > more useful to me would be greater visibility of custom tags both
> > > within SP and without.
> > > 
> > > For instance how easy would it be to make tags visible to a Palm OS
> > > "find" ?
> 
> 	It could be trouble; ie: Search a given record for a match, then
> search its tags for a match. Could be slow (match tag string to internal
> rperesentation, then go through an items tags. When doing an external
> Find, we dont' know much about each record.. we just climb through the
> text. Climbing through the rest of it would be some special work and a
> buig slowish to perform).
> 
> 	Its possible, but not something I'm looking forward to ;)
> 
> > > In addition to this it would be useful to have some method of
finding
> > > and moving to records with specific tags attached within a single SP
> > > file or category or even globally across all SP files. Something
akin
> > > to an "(Only/Additionally) Include tags in search" check-box
perhaps ?
> 
> 	Use filters so you can match criterion and just see and tap on the
> next matching items?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
But the filter shows all parent items (from current zoom level which
is great) but it is possible that you won't be able to "see" the next
match and will have to scroll to it. Hence why a find option would be
useful. It takes the irksome scrolling out of the equation.

Mark

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

> I know I'm a little bit late with my comment ... ;-)

I've been thinking about this more too.

I'd like it to be VERY clear at a glance if there are real links (ie, links
that go to something you can actually do something with, be that another
Shadow plan, Shadow item (in the future), todo, datebook entry, etc..

Having - vs -> is very clear. I dont think having <- vs -> is. If I look
down a big list of items, its not so quick to spot which ones actually have
links, rather than just tags.

    -    nothing
    o    tags
    ->  links
    o> links and tags

would be better. That, is clear.

My preference is still to have tags not show at all in the link arrow
column, if I have a tag column visible. If the tag column is hidden, I dont
really mind what the link arrow shows..

--- Malcolm

From: davidgorecki  <dgorecki@f...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:25pm
Subject: Re: PocketPC Version

Thanks for the quick reply Jeff.

As an observation, one of the things that developers are struggling 
with on the PocketPC platform is synchronizing. Almost all the 
applications that have a desktop and handheld version of the product 
synchronize at the file level, so it's impossible to make changes to 
in both places between synchs without wiping out changes in one area. 

Hopefully you can build your own conduit when the time comes.

Anyway.....patiently waiting for your entrance in the PocketPC 
market :-)

David


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, davidgorecki wrote:
> 
> > Any thoughts on creating a PocketPC version of Shadow? I really 
miss
> > it after moving to the "other side". There is a HUGE untapped 
market
> > for a product like yours on that platform.
> 
> 	I'll probably make a stab at it eventually, but I wish to 
close up
> some of the Shadow Desktop stuff first; ie: Shadow Handheld with 
2.5 is
> pretty darned solid, and coudl sit for awhile. The Desktop needs 
some
> serious work. The sneaky thign is that the Desktop woudl work with a
> Pocket PC version as well. So once I buff up the desktop a little 
so it
> can sit, I'll start working on a PoPC version. Though a PoPC 
version would
> be necessarily different.. I'm not sure I can do everything I can 
do with
> the Palm version, and theres other things I could do that the Palm
> couldn't... and when you get to rewrite, after elarning from a prior
> platform, its always a different (and hopefully better) toy..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Re: PocketPC Version

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, davidgorecki wrote:

> Thanks for the quick reply Jeff.
> 
> As an observation, one of the things that developers are struggling
> with on the PocketPC platform is synchronizing. Almost all the
> applications that have a desktop and handheld version of the product
> synchronize at the file level, so it's impossible to make changes to
> in both places between synchs without wiping out changes in one area.

	It is an extremely difficult problem, probably magnified by the
extra complexity and bugs in the Pocket PC system for synching.

	One of the great strengths of the Palm OS is a great simplicity in
doing most things; a learning cureve, but a gradual one. The PoPC system
is much like Windows, and is thus a big nasty mess.. easy for peopel to
think they know it, complex to master :)

> Hopefully you can build your own conduit when the time comes.

	Course, like I do for Palm OS.

	It will be fun.. due to OS5 supporting units being much much more
powerful, I'm half tempted to start rebuilding and rearchitecting some of
Shadow.. make it cross platform to some extent and take advantage of the
much more powerful units for both Palm and Pocket PC. However, I'm not
interested in orphaning existing units for a long time yet, so its a
complex question.

	And really, I dislike supporting an evil amoral company like
Microsoft :/

	However, PoPC could be interesting..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jon Hind  <lists@j...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:21pm
Subject: Re: RE: Silly Question

Thanks for that idea. It helps, but I was looking for a complete 
synch, a la Zoot. Funnily enough I allready have a gtd folder :)
--
 Jon Hind, jon@j... on 2002/07/19


On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:28:31 -0500, Frederick G. Turner wrote:
>Have you considered setting up a to-do template in DateBk4/5 in
>order to automate this?  It would save a lot of time!
>
>Fred.
>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:23:52 -0000 From: "kentprim"
>><kent.primrose@b...> Subject: Re: Silly Question
>>
>>--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jon Hind <lists@j...> wrote:
>>>How do I synch shadow to todo ?
>>
>>I use the "Auto-import from To Do list" feature. I have a
>>particular ShadowPlan file that I use for managing ToDo items named
>>"GTD".
>>I've created a palm shortcut that pastes "[[[GTD]]]" and assigned
>>this to a single letter ("x") to make it very easy to enter.
>>Whenever I'm creating a ToDo item from another program, I first
>>enter "shortcut- x" to paste this text, then go on with the ToDo
>>item normally. Then, occasionally when I'm in ShadowPlan I exit to
>>List view and run "Import MarkedToDos" from the menu. The marked
>>ToDo's are imported into the "GTD" list, and the ugly "[[[GTD]]]"
>>mark is removed.
>>
>>It's a bit awkward, and I haven't yet really built the habit of
>>always putting the mark on the front of the ToDo, but it works.
>>
>>Hope that helps, Kent
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jon Hind  <lists@j...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Silly Question

Thanks,

I had overlooked import marked items. I guess a dedicated shadow 
database for todo's ? Or import based on todo category ?
Or Zoot for the palm ? :)

--
 Jon Hind, jon@j... on 2002/07/19


On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:03:34 -0400 (EDT), Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Jon Hind wrote:
>
>>How do I synch shadow to todo ?
>>
>>I know I can import and make links from shadow.
>>
>>But if I make a todo in Outlook or datebk, how can I ensure that it
>> appears in shadow. I suspect the answer is that you can't.
>
>    Using Shadow Plan 2.5, you can do "auto imports"; see the Ref
>Guide, but in short; you can put [[[filename]]] at the front of a
>ToDo, then ask Shadow to bring in so-marked ToDos. The filename need
>not be complete.. just unique.
>
>    (Otherwise, how would Shadow know where to put the items?)
>
>        jeff
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:31pm
Subject: Re: Silly Question

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Jon Hind wrote:

> I had overlooked import marked items. I guess a dedicated shadow 
> database for todo's ? Or import based on todo category ?
> Or Zoot for the palm ? :)

	Zoot?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:36pm
Subject: RE: Re: PocketPC Version

>	And really, I dislike supporting an evil amoral company like
>Microsoft :/


You're not supporting Microsoft, you're supporting all of those poor
people who made the wrong choice when they bought a handheld!!   :)


Or else perfect email sync w/ Outlook was their top priority, PIM stuff
their second. Mail is the one thing PPC does better than Palm OS, but
hopefully that will change soon!

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: Wiggins, Sandi (ManTech)  <sandi.wiggins@d...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:49pm
Subject: Desktop First Timer

I am new to Shadow and I really like it! [Brilliant! Faboo! et cetera]
Thought I'd check out the functionality of the Shadow Desktop and see if it
would enhance my positive experience. Hmmm.

When I do a sync, all of my ShadP- files go into Backup. Natch. If I select
a specific list in Shadow and check the Sync box, nothing different happens.
I don't see anything in the ShadowPlan160 directory and there is no file to
open in the Desktop. Is sync supposed to drop a PDB or XML file into that
directory?

I can create an XML from the Desktop and have it sync onto the handheld and
it works just fine.

What am I missing?

Sandi

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:54pm
Subject: Re: Desktop First Timer

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, Wiggins, Sandi (ManTech) wrote:

> I am new to Shadow and I really like it! [Brilliant! Faboo! et cetera]
> Thought I'd check out the functionality of the Shadow Desktop and see if it
> would enhance my positive experience. Hmmm.
> 
> When I do a sync, all of my ShadP- files go into Backup. Natch. If I
> select a specific list in Shadow and check the Sync box, nothing
> different happens. I don't see anything in the ShadowPlan160 directory
> and there is no file to open in the Desktop. Is sync supposed to drop
> a PDB or XML file into that directory?

	When unregistered, Shadow Desktop is unruly about synching; ie: I
publish all specifications and there are now about 10 or 15 peopel
building extra tools and desktops and such for Shadow. As such, if the
conduit synchs "too well", those guys make money and I go out of business
:)

	However, I agree that its a bit too annoying wondering whats going
on as it doesn't synch.. its "too unruly". I mean to fix that soon, as I'm
revisiting the desktop and conduit to bring them a little more up to
speed.

> I can create an XML from the Desktop and have it sync onto the
> handheld and it works just fine.
> 
> What am I missing?

	Registration, and Shadow Desktop is being a bully. Sorry about
that.

	In your ShadowPlan160 directory, you can read the lastsync.txt log
and see what it says for each session. It'll be lots of "stuff", but ought
to illustrate what its doing.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Tom & Christiane Moughan  <moughan@e...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:27am
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives

... this makes sense to me..more so than >, <, <-> and -

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Winia" <rwinia@y...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 1:16 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives


: What about 
: 
: L     Link Indicator
: T     Tag present
: -     Neither
: B     Both (or 2)
: 
: Robert
: 
: 
: Message: 14
:    Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:38:52 -0400 (EDT)
:    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
: Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.
: 
: On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:
: 
: > Yeah, my concern with the first example was the
: extra space needed for a 
: > third character.  I like the single character idea,
: more info represented 
: > AND less screen realestate ;)
: 
: Its an icon.. not made of characters anyway :) I
: don't think a
: double headed arrow costs any space :)
: 
: jeff
: 
: > 
: > 
: > >     -     no links or tags
: > >     >     links present
: > >     <     tags present
: > >     =     tags and links present
: > >
: > > >> How about using the following:
: > > >>
: > > >>    -     no links or tags
: > > >>    ->    links present
: > > >>   <-     tags present
: > > >>   <->    tags and links present
: > > >>
: > 
: > 
: 
: 
: 
: =====
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: 
: 
:

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:34am
Subject: RE: Link Indicator alternatives

I actually like the original idea better. Jeff, any chance of setting up
a poll so we can see which option wins?

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom & Christiane Moughan [mailto:moughan@e...] 
 
... this makes sense to me..more so than >, <, <-> and -

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Winia" <rwinia@y...>

: What about 
: 
: L     Link Indicator
: T     Tag present
: -     Neither
: B     Both (or 2)
: 
: Robert

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:46am
Subject: RE: Alternative format manuals

Ummm. . . did you ever add the Handstory version of the manual???

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:54 AM

	NOTE: These are untested; I've not had the time to go through
and
check these files (nor do I own iSilo, for instance).

	I have received 4 alternative format manuals. I'll also add a
HandStory clip in a minute...

	See here:
http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/downloads.html

	Currently there are: Acrobat PDF version, iSilo, Palm DOC, and
Plucker versions. I'll be adding a HandStory clip pdb in a moment.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:50am
Subject: RE: Link Indicator alternatives

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> I actually like the original idea better. Jeff, any chance of setting up
> a poll so we can see which option wins?

	I'm leaning towards ->, -<, <->, -, myself. Otherwise I'll have to
rewrite all my docs that refer to "link arrow column" ;)

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom & Christiane Moughan [mailto:moughan@e...] 
>  
> ... this makes sense to me..more so than >, <, <-> and -
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Robert Winia" <rwinia@y...>
> 
> : What about 
> : 
> : L     Link Indicator
> : T     Tag present
> : -     Neither
> : B     Both (or 2)
> : 
> : Robert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:01am
Subject: RE: Link Indicator alternatives

Isn't that supposed to be <-, ->, <->, -  or have things changed?

It just seems to make more sense visually, and I wouldn't have to
translate what the letters mean (T, B, L, etc.) every time I look at the
column.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:50 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> I actually like the original idea better. Jeff, any chance of setting
up
> a poll so we can see which option wins?

	I'm leaning towards ->, -<, <->, -, myself. Otherwise I'll have
to
rewrite all my docs that refer to "link arrow column" ;)

		jeff

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:16am
Subject: RE: Alternative format manuals

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Ummm. . . did you ever add the Handstory version of the manual???

	Not yet; ran into some annoyances with HS so I skipped it for the
time being. Things are very busy right now, dealing with the 2.5 rollout,
webstore, legal stuff, etc.

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:54 AM
> 
> 	NOTE: These are untested; I've not had the time to go through
> and
> check these files (nor do I own iSilo, for instance).
> 
> 	I have received 4 alternative format manuals. I'll also add a
> HandStory clip in a minute...
> 
> 	See here:
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/downloads.html
> 
> 	Currently there are: Acrobat PDF version, iSilo, Palm DOC, and
> Plucker versions. I'll be adding a HandStory clip pdb in a moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 4:17am
Subject: RE: Link Indicator alternatives

On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Isn't that supposed to be <-, ->, <->, -  or have things changed?

	You know me.. when I'm writing email, I'm whipping through
hundrefs of them, so I get sloppy on my typing ;)

> It just seems to make more sense visually, and I wouldn't have to
> translate what the letters mean (T, B, L, etc.) every time I look at
> the column.

	Thats my thought; the letters have more meaning whenyou read them,
but I like to see-before-I-see ;)

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 10:50 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives
> 
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:
> 
> > I actually like the original idea better. Jeff, any chance of setting
> up
> > a poll so we can see which option wins?
> 
> 	I'm leaning towards ->, -<, <->, -, myself. Otherwise I'll have
> to
> rewrite all my docs that refer to "link arrow column" ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 9:06pm
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives

i like the letters better too!
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tom & Christiane Moughan 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 6:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives


  ... this makes sense to me..more so than >, <, <-> and -

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Robert Winia" <rwinia@y...>
  To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 1:16 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives


  : What about 
  : 
  : L     Link Indicator
  : T     Tag present
  : -     Neither
  : B     Both (or 2)
  : 
  : Robert
  : 
  : 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives

Interesting brain processes we all have.  For me, the arrows require more processing than the letters.  Hmm...
Kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 8:17 PM
  Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives


  On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

  > Isn't that supposed to be <-, ->, <->, -  or have things changed?

        You know me.. when I'm writing email, I'm whipping through
  hundrefs of them, so I get sloppy on my typing ;)

  > It just seems to make more sense visually, and I wouldn't have to
  > translate what the letters mean (T, B, L, etc.) every time I look at
  > the column.

        Thats my thought; the letters have more meaning whenyou read them,
  but I like to see-before-I-see ;)

              jeff

  > 
  > Jen
  > 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: veb8  <veb8899@f...>
Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:05am
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...> wrote:
> Interesting brain processes we all have.  For me, the arrows 
require more processing than the letters.  Hmm...
> Kevin
 
Kevin,

It may be my resistance to change but I have gotten so used to the 
right arrow.  To me, it is saying "this way to the "to do" link. I 
have found that for some reason, letters don't do it for me because 
it causes me not to make an association whereas symbols like arrows 
do.  So, I want them to require more processing:))

You're right, brain processes are fascinating.  

Vivian

From: easy123.rm  <easy-123@e...>
Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:54am
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives

My vote is for the letters. They are more intuitive than symbols. 
("T" = "Tag Present", "B" = "Both", "->" = ?).

In fact, Jeff, the error you made in an email several emails ago 
would have been far less likely with letters. "I'm leaning towards -
>, -<, <->, -, myself." Wonder how many people who read the email 
picked up on the error before it was commented on (I didn't).

stan

> It may be my resistance to change but I have gotten so used to the 
> right arrow.  To me, it is saying "this way to the "to do" link. I 
> have found that for some reason, letters don't do it for me because 
> it causes me not to make an association whereas symbols like arrows 
> do.  So, I want them to require more processing:))
> 
> You're right, brain processes are fascinating.  
> 
> Vivian

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 4:20pm
Subject: Import Marked todos bug

Now that the the 'Import Marked ToDos' exists, I decided that I've had enough with ToDo and wanted to replace it with Shadow, so for every ToDo category I created a <categoryname>ToDo list after ensuring that none of the names would conflict with existing Shadow lists. I then spent a good 20 min putting the [[[categoryname>ToDo]]] string before each of my ToDo items (after creating shortcuts for each string, of course). And then I went back into Shadow and Imported the Marked ToDos.

After my first attempt, the message was something like '18 todos imported, 69 bad todos skipped'. What does that mean? Why are there 'bad todos', or badly-formed, or whatever? Is this an international symbol issue?

I decided to try again, after I looked over my todos to make sure they all had [[[]]]. After my second attempt, the message said '13 todos imported, 56 bad todos skipped'.

4 attempts later, they were all imported, again without my making any changes between attempts.

Afterward, one thing I noticed for most of my todos was the Shadow note stamp for each one was [[[Shadow: (0) ]]]. I assume this was why the todos are malformed, Shadow doesn't have an List ID number for them like the note stamps from regular todo links. Does this have to do with the fact that the Shadow files that were importing them were brand new? I don't think so, it doesn't make much sense for the List ID to work that way.

Another thing I noticed - which isn't so surprising in hindsight - is that a todo can only be linked to one Shadow list, and the last list to link is the winner. So my plan to import all my todos to Shadow lists is a bad idea unless I'm never going to use ToDo at all on my Prism, because any ToDos that were linked from my non-Todo Shadow lists are going to lose their links to those items, and of course, we can't link Shadow list to list yet. Oh well.

Still curious about the importing mechanism

Jacob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 7:47pm
Subject: Re: Import Marked todos bug

On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

> Now that the the 'Import Marked ToDos' exists, I decided that I've had
> enough with ToDo and wanted to replace it with Shadow, so for every
> ToDo category I created a <categoryname>ToDo list after ensuring that
> none of the names would conflict with existing Shadow lists. I then
> spent a good 20 min putting the [[[categoryname>ToDo]]] string before
> each of my ToDo items (after creating shortcuts for each string, of
> course). And then I went back into Shadow and Imported the Marked
> ToDos.
> 
> After my first attempt, the message was something like '18 todos
> imported, 69 bad todos skipped'. What does that mean? Why are there
> 'bad todos', or badly-formed, or whatever? Is this an international
> symbol issue?

	"Bad" just means a matching list couldn't be found, or something
funny was up.. too long a name, etc. Some small number of people may have
a problem where match text must be 5 characters or more, but I coudl never
reproduce it.. 2 characters or more should match fine.

> I decided to try again, after I looked over my todos to make sure they
> all had [[[]]]. After my second attempt, the message said '13 todos
> imported, 56 bad todos skipped'.

	Thats curious.

	Which version of Shadow? 2.5 or one of the alphas/betas?

> 4 attempts later, they were all imported, again without my making any
> changes between attempts.

	Definitely let me know the ersion. If its 2.5, and successive
sttempts fix it, thats whacky.. but an interesting effect that should help
me find it. Weird!

> Afterward, one thing I noticed for most of my todos was the Shadow
> note stamp for each one was [[[Shadow: (0) ]]]. I assume this was why
> the todos are malformed, Shadow doesn't have an List ID number for

	Thats a normal stamp; it just means at the time it was written out
that a ID wasn't yet know. NExt time you open/close that list, it'll get a
record ID attached to it. 0 just means "not yet known".

> Another thing I noticed - which isn't so surprising in hindsight - is
> that a todo can only be linked to one Shadow list, and the last list
> to link is the winner. So my plan to import all my todos to Shadow
> lists is a bad idea unless I'm never going to use ToDo at all on my
> Prism, because any ToDos that were linked from my non-Todo Shadow
> lists are going to lose their links to those items, and of course, we
> can't link Shadow list to list yet. Oh well.

	Items can be linked from any number of places all at once. It is
reasonably common for people to have 5 items in the same or separate lists
linked to the same ToDo object. You can also link list to list as you
know, just not Shadow item to item (without Megawiki anyway :P). I don't
recall semantics.. if auto-import breaks existing links or not. If it
does, I can investigate that and potentially remove it.. it would be
annoying.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: arskillings72212  <bob.skillings@A...>
Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:37pm
Subject: Re: Import Marked todos bug

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Jacob Share wrote:
> 
...snip

> > I decided to try again, after I looked over my todos to make sure 
they
> > all had [[[]]]. After my second attempt, the message said '13 
todos
> > imported, 56 bad todos skipped'.
> 
> 	Thats curious.
> 
> 	Which version of Shadow? 2.5 or one of the alphas/betas?
> 
> > 4 attempts later, they were all imported, again without my making 
any
> > changes between attempts.
> 

This same sequence of events occurred to me as well.  It was a couple 
of days ago that I imported my To Do's but I recall thinking the 
problem was somehow related to how SP recognized it needed to use 
another list to continue importing. 

I'm on v2.5 and the sequence was something like the following;

1. add strings (Foo1, Foo2, etc.) to individual To Do items
2. Import Marked To Do's with SP
3. SP reported x were imported successfully, y were skipped

When looking at which entries were succesful it appeared a To Do 
entry for Foo1 was found first and all Foo1 entries were imported 
successfully.  Foo2 entries were tagged as bad and skipped.  

The next attempt at importing, however, found them and imported them 
successfully.  Although I did confirm the string text and format for 
each of these To Do items between attempts, I didn't change them.


Hope this helps.

From: jeff.resener@s...
Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 3:16pm
Subject: Tags and their Use

Ok, so maybe being just back from vacation, my brain is slow. I loaded 2.5,
and see all the tags features. I am looking for ideas of how people use
these to be more effective. It seems that with categories, and linking to
Datebk5, that tags are redundant, but I know there was lots of discussion
in the past on them, and alot of desire to have them, so can somebody
loosen my brain and give me ideas why I would want to use them?
Thanks
jeff

From: mhdickens  <mkdickens@a...>
Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 4:01pm
Subject: Global display preferences vs. View preferences

I have just been using a custom view :-) which uses a custom filter
:-) which selects completed tasks. Strike-thru of completed items is
still active :-(.

I know the tasks are completed, that's what I used the filter for.

What would be really GREAT is if "Strike-thru of completed items"
could be moved from a global/general Display Preference to a View
Preference.

Is this on the horizon Jeff ?

Mark

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 4:29pm
Subject: Tag association

Jeff,
first, thanks again for 2.5, it's probably doubled my use of SP, and truly
has helped me to be more effective. Of course, I'm going to follow that up
with a request. Is there a way to add a tag when in detail view? The reason
I ask is that I have a growing @in-box list which now has several custom
views with filters based on tag associations. If I'm in a view that filters
by tag, and create a new item, I have to change views in order to see the
item and add the appropriate tag. It would be greate if there were
something within the ME or details where I could add a tag. New webstore
looks great by the way.

Scott

From: Andy Gray  <agray@r...>
Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 4:30pm
Subject: RE: Link Indicator alternatives

>> It just seems to make more sense visually, and I wouldn't have to
>> translate what the letters mean (T, B, L, etc.) every time I look at
>> the column.
>
>	Thats my thought; the letters have more meaning whenyou read them,
> but I like to see-before-I-see ;)

Remember also that letters might only make sense for those who read English.
If you think that having to translate the meaning of the letters is a bit of
a mental speedbump, just think what it could be if you're not fluent with
the language.

One important rule for clear user interfaces: don't use icons that only have
meaning in a particular language.

-- Andy

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 4:36pm
Subject: Re: Tag association (nevermind)

Jeff and all,

Found it in the Link mgr off of the detqails screen. This is fine with me.

Scott

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:23pm
Subject: Link arrow and goto todo

The link arrow provides a great, quick way to go to the linked todo in the 
datebook app.  However, if the link column is not visible, I see no easy way 
to do this without changing views first.  Everything else is available if 
you open an item's details view and select the