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6301

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 0:35am
Subject: Re: Re: How to view only items that have no CHILDREN?

 
> I meant no children.  I'd like to view the actions at the deepest
> level (ie what I can actually do).  And I want to skip the parental
> context.  Sorry about that!!!  Thx for the ideas so far!

I do something similar at present.. Shadowplan lets me build context for
items, but I make sure the 'leaf' items all make sense without the parents.
At present, the parents provide only structure.. Something like..

Work
    Roadrunner
        Distribute Project Plan
        Talk to Mark about ideas for new API
        Kick Fred to give me feedback on timescales
    Coyote
        Write Sales information document
        ..
Home
    Lawn
        Rake lawn
        Re-seed lawn
    Internet
        Investigate BSD mbuf bug

The leaf items then get linked to ToDos.. (actually, I only link the Next
Items).

However, with Shadow 2.5, tags and filters etc are much more powerful, and I
probably want to keep all this stuff in Shadow. It would be nice to be able
to set up some flattened views.. Ie. "Show next items without parents". I
can zoom into individual levels, which does help some, but the ability to
hide some of the structure would be useful. I tried to do it with a filter
on "level > 2", but obviously, that still shows parents...

I understand that its not really how Shadow does things, and I havent really
seen a need for it before now (Shadow linked to ToDo did this fine), but now
Shadow has all these new features, I can see real use for the "flattened"
view.

--- Malcolm
6302

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 0:52am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
> I've been tempted to add under the Tool menu a "Adhoc Filter
> Wizard". You pick a tag, and it ditches your current filter and creates a
> n unsaved custom filter for just that tag. But not sure how useful it
> is. It wouldn't save, so is just until you exit the app.

That would be very cool - especially if you can select multiple tags.. I
currently use ToDo categories with DateBk 5 to handle the locations at which
I can do tasks.. Eg, @Office, @Home, @Internet, @Phone, etc.. I do have some
predefined views there, for the usual places I am, but its nice to be able
to decide when I'm at the airport with a mobile phone and an internet
terminal, to quickly see if there's anything I can do.. And just ask Datebk5
to show the @Phone and @Internet categories.

If Shadow could do this with tags, it'd be superb. Even if it could only do
it with one tag at a time, it would be good.

While Im on the topic of how I use tags, here's some more detail.. and a
niggle..

I currently have three tag categories.. Locations (as above), People, and
Status. The People category contains tags for people I need to do the task
with (ie, someone I need to talk to, or someone Im waiting for, or have
delegated the task to. The Status category contains .. statuses.. Eg,
!WaitingFor, !Delegated, !TalkTo, ...

So, if I have a task which I've delegated to Graeme, I tag it !Delegated,
and Graeme. If its something I need to discuss with Graeme, Mark, and
Chris - I tage it !TalkTo, Graeme, Mark, and Chris.

Being able to create tag filters on the fly would mean that when Chris
phones me, I could quickly ask Shadow to show me everything with his name
against it.. and since I keep the statuses as the primary tag, I can see at
a glance what I need to review..


Now to the niggle.. I use links, a lot. Some tasks I want to show up in
DateBk5, so I link them to ToDos. (I used to link everything, but the new
functionality is too good to lose that way). Some tasks I schedules meetings
for, so I link to Datebook. Some have attached memos, or address entries.
With older versions of Shadow, I could see at a glance that there was info
linked that i might need to look at, by the presence of the link arrow.

With Shadow 2.5, I cant tell that any more, if I use tags, because the link
arrow shows up on anything tagged.

I would really prefer it if the link arrow didnt show on items that only had
tags.. It seems to only hide information, especially if a tag column is
present..

What do others think? Is the link arrow more useful when it doesnt show up
on items that are only tagged?

--- Malcolm
6303

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:45am
Subject: Re: Re: How to view only items that have no CHILDREN?

 
On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Malcolm Campbell wrote:

>         Rake lawn
>         Re-seed lawn

	With the "append origin" option, this level of extra detail
(reusing rhw word "lawn") may not be necessary, but your mileage may vary
:)

> I understand that its not really how Shadow does things, and I havent really
> seen a need for it before now (Shadow linked to ToDo did this fine), but now
> Shadow has all these new features, I can see real use for the "flattened"
> view.

	Feel free to bug me in a month or two, and I can look into it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6304

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:48am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Malcolm Campbell wrote:

> With Shadow 2.5, I cant tell that any more, if I use tags, because the link
> arrow shows up on anything tagged.
> 
> I would really prefer it if the link arrow didnt show on items that only had
> tags.. It seems to only hide information, especially if a tag column is
> present..
> 
> What do others think? Is the link arrow more useful when it doesnt show up
> on items that are only tagged?

	On other mentioned this.

	Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
present)?

	I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 replies :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6305

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:56am
Subject: RE: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
YES YES YES!!  If I want to see tags, I can put in a tag column, either
narrow or wide. The link column is (IMHO) just for links to the
built-ins!

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 8:48 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

	On other mentioned this.

	Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
present)?

	I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 replies :)
6306

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:59am
Subject: RE: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
I agree, -> for external links only.


>From: "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...>
>Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)
>Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 21:56:36 -0500
>
>YES YES YES!!  If I want to see tags, I can put in a tag column, either
>narrow or wide. The link column is (IMHO) just for links to the
>built-ins!
>
>Jen
>
>-------------
>PocketGoddess
>http://www.pocketgoddess.com
>98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
>Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 8:48 PM
>To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)
>
>	On other mentioned this.
>
>	Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
>todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
>present)?
>
>	I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 replies :)
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




_________________________________________________________________
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6307

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:46am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
i agree with Jen too.
Kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: PocketGoddess 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 6:56 PM
  Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)


  YES YES YES!!  If I want to see tags, I can put in a tag column, either
  narrow or wide. The link column is (IMHO) just for links to the
  built-ins!

  Jen

  -------------
  PocketGoddess
  http://www.pocketgoddess.com
  98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
  Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 8:48 PM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

        On other mentioned this.

        Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
  todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
  present)?

        I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 replies :)


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
         
        Click here to find your contact lenses! 

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6308

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:07am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
I agree as well, it makes perfect sense


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...> wrote:
> i agree with Jen too.
> Kevin
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: PocketGoddess 
>   To: shadow-discuss@y... 
>   Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 6:56 PM
>   Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 
2.5)
> 
> 
>   YES YES YES!!  If I want to see tags, I can put in a tag column, 
either
>   narrow or wide. The link column is (IMHO) just for links to the
>   built-ins!
> 
>   Jen
> 
>   -------------
>   PocketGoddess
>   http://www.pocketgoddess.com
>   98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
>   Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 8:48 PM
>   To: shadow-discuss@y...
>   Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 
2.5)
> 
>         On other mentioned this.
> 
>         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
>   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just 
tags are
>   present)?
> 
>         I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 
replies :)
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>          
>         Click here to find your contact lenses! 
> 
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6309

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:58am
Subject: Re: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
Agreed.  Link arrow for links to built-ins only.

Ling
6310

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:48am
Subject: Re: Re: How to view only items that have no CHILDREN?

 
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Malcolm Campbell wrote:
>
> >         Rake lawn
> >         Re-seed lawn
>
> With the "append origin" option, this level of extra detail
> (reusing rhw word "lawn") may not be necessary, but your mileage may vary
> :)

I did try that, but I want the flattened list to make sense at a glance.. As
such, I'm careful to make sure the names of items are complete..
Append origin is stll useful sometimes, when I'm not careful about it and
want to know the context that I placed on the item within Shadow.

> > I understand that its not really how Shadow does things, and I havent
really
> > seen a need for it before now (Shadow linked to ToDo did this fine), but
now
> > Shadow has all these new features, I can see real use for the
"flattened"
> > view.
>
> Feel free to bug me in a month or two, and I can look into it.

Cool. Ive asked Shadow to remind me.. so expect to be bugged later.. ;)

--- Malcolm
6311

From: rblanzan  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:00am
Subject: Broken Views still

 
Jeff

I got bored, so I did a hard reset, uninstalled all the PC handheld 
programs, then started again.  I backed up the "backup" direcory 
several times and then I deleted everything in the backup directory 
and reinstalled all the apps one by one, then added the data bases.  
I gained a meg of ram :)   Next week, I'll probably be wondering what 
happened to ..... (fill in dots with fav app).

I installed Shadow and the lists first, then tested it (no hacks, 
just some basic stuff, I'll deal with the broken links on the train 
to and from work :) I guess I should have added my address book stuff 
first <shrug>) with newly created tags and views, I didn't reload the 
old cat, tags and views databases.  I thought that if I didn't, 
Shadow would make them anyway.

I still got the broken views when a list is ticked for syncing with 
the desktop, so that was disappointing.

Question - yesterday, I bought a memory stick (128 megs and I want to 
fill it up!).  Is it worth running shadow on it and if so, how do I 
do that?

Rita
6312

From: jonaz  <jonaz.list@d...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:06am
Subject: Re: Setting prefs for addr/memo linking?

 
Hi again,
tried to disable all hacks - and it still doesn't stick. Sorry. It keep reverting to 
the standard built-in Memo app (for new links, those set specifically with Set 
prog still link to the set app, i.e. Memo+).

Seems like I'm the only one with this problem and I guess I'll survive. A bit 
annoying though.

/jonaz

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, jonaz wrote:

> > But.. is there a way to set a preset preference for which Memo-app to
> > link to? 
> 
> 	Its a little odd, but its like this: Go to the Link Manager (for
> any item), hit Add, pick Memo, pick Set Program, pick a program, then
> cancel the addition of the link (unless you want to do it). The memo app
> choice will stay forever, for all memo links.
> 
> > I use MemoPLUS and would like to have memo-links opened in MemoPLUS
> > instead of the built-in memo app. Of course I can change what app to
> > use in the "Set program" - but it doesn't seem to "stick", making me
> > having to set it in every new link.
> 
> 	It'll stick.
6313

From: Justin Nelson  <justinn@e...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:40am
Subject: Re: Revert to "default" for item type

 
Many thanks to Jeff and Ling (another "silly me" question promptly answered 
- I'm very grateful)

Justin Nelson (using a Palm M505 with OS v.4.0, JackFlash, DateBk5, 
ShadowPlan and a LOAD of system extension hacks)
6314

From: Ray Drew  <ray_drew@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 10:28pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
Malcolm wrote:

<<<

What do others think? Is the link arrow more useful when it doesnt show up
on items that are only tagged?

>>>

Yes, I agree.

Ray


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6315

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 0:30am
Subject: Re: Broken Views still

 
On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, rblanzan wrote:

> I got bored, so I did a hard reset, uninstalled all the PC handheld
> programs, then started again.  I backed up the "backup" direcory
> several times and then I deleted everything in the backup directory
> and reinstalled all the apps one by one, then added the data bases.  
> I gained a meg of ram :)  Next week, I'll probably be wondering what
> happened to ..... (fill in dots with fav app).

	If you get bored and do hard resets.. god help us all if you get a
week off work ;)

> I installed Shadow and the lists first, then tested it (no hacks, just
> some basic stuff, I'll deal with the broken links on the train to and
> from work :) I guess I should have added my address book stuff first
> <shrug>) with newly created tags and views, I didn't reload the old
> cat, tags and views databases.  I thought that if I didn't, Shadow
> would make them anyway.

	Shadow will make them, and they'll be empty, and all your tags and
views and such will be 'broken'; theres no waste in those, so you might as
well install them ;)

> I still got the broken views when a list is ticked for syncing with
> the desktop, so that was disappointing.

	The 2.5.0 conduit appears to break view-overrides to
custom-saved-views. I'll have a 2.5.x patch out soon (or maybe a 2.6,
whatever number we use :P)

> Question - yesterday, I bought a memory stick (128 megs and I want to
> fill it up!).  Is it worth running shadow on it and if so, how do I do
> that?

	I use PiDirect, and keep abotu 100 apps on my memory stick that
way.

	If you wish to synch Shadow with Shadow Desktop, you can't put it
on memstick (no hacks or synching apps or alarm apps can be on memsticks
or the like).

	If you want it on a memstick, do it in the normal ways (your
launcher, or pidirect or powerrun, etc etc.)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6316

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 0:32am
Subject: Re: Re: Setting prefs for addr/memo linking?

 
On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, jonaz wrote:

> tried to disable all hacks - and it still doesn't stick. Sorry. It
> keep reverting to the standard built-in Memo app (for new links, those
> set specifically with Set prog still link to the set app, i.e. Memo+).
> 
> Seems like I'm the only one with this problem and I guess I'll
> survive. A bit annoying though.

	I'm not sure what you mean "new links".

	ie: You have existing memo links, and going through them goes
to.. what app? Built in?

	And then you make a new memo link, and going through it goes to
your selected proggy. When you come back to Shadow, does it go to the
built in, or your selected proggy?

	If "recently new" memo links goes to your new proggy, and the old
ones go to the built in, then something is truly messed up, since Shadow
only knows about one destination proggy per link type.

		jeff

> 
> /jonaz
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Jul 2002, jonaz wrote:
> 
> > > But.. is there a way to set a preset preference for which Memo-app to
> > > link to? 
> > 
> > 	Its a little odd, but its like this: Go to the Link Manager (for
> > any item), hit Add, pick Memo, pick Set Program, pick a program, then
> > cancel the addition of the link (unless you want to do it). The memo app
> > choice will stay forever, for all memo links.
> > 
> > > I use MemoPLUS and would like to have memo-links opened in MemoPLUS
> > > instead of the built-in memo app. Of course I can change what app to
> > > use in the "Set program" - but it doesn't seem to "stick", making me
> > > having to set it in every new link.
> > 
> > 	It'll stick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6317

From: klynngullo  <klynngullo@a...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 0:48am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Malcolm Campbell wrote:
> 
> > With Shadow 2.5, I cant tell that any more, if I use tags, 
because the link
> > arrow shows up on anything tagged.
> > 
> > I would really prefer it if the link arrow didnt show on items 
that only had
> > tags.. It seems to only hide information, especially if a tag 
column is
> > present..
> > 
> > What do others think? Is the link arrow more useful when it 
doesnt show up
> > on items that are only tagged?
> 
> 	On other mentioned this.
> 
> 	Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags 
are
> present)?


This is a GREAT idea!!!!!go for it! (I prefer seeing just the arrow 
and not adding a tag column so this would be an excellent solution)

> 
>
6318

From: klynngullo  <klynngullo@a...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 0:48am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, Malcolm Campbell wrote:
> 
> > With Shadow 2.5, I cant tell that any more, if I use tags, 
because the link
> > arrow shows up on anything tagged.
> > 
> > I would really prefer it if the link arrow didnt show on items 
that only had
> > tags.. It seems to only hide information, especially if a tag 
column is
> > present..
> > 
> > What do others think? Is the link arrow more useful when it 
doesnt show up
> > on items that are only tagged?
> 
> 	On other mentioned this.
> 
> 	Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags 
are
> present)?
> 
> 	I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 replies :)
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6319

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:57am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	On other mentioned this.
> 
> 	Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
> present)?
> 
> 	I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 replies :)
> 

Yes, the link arrow should not be sensitive to the presence of tags.

After reasoning out your comments on my suggestion of blending the
link and tag functions, I have to say that I thought I knew where you
were going...

It seems to me that tags are only "linked" because it is an efficient
storage mechanism.  For all other purposes it should appear as though
the tag labels themselves are stored in the record.  As such the tag
"links" aren't real links at all, just a space saving mechanism.

Unless, of course, I misunderstood and what you're looking to do in
the long run is make tags an alternate hierarchy mechanism. (ie. you
can collect the tags themselves as items in a list and those items
linked to a tag become its (virtual?) children?

Ken
6320

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:55pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
  todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
  present)?

  I also agree that the link arrow shouldn't be used to indicate a tag, but I also don't like the idea of having the awesome new tag information hidden on all the built-in views except the also new Worksheet. How's about using some other symbol instead to indicate when there are tags yet give the link arrow display priority if an item also has links? Maybe half the Expanded Tag 'interaction' symbol? Or the whole thing, if you can manage to shrink it even more?

  Another suggestion - I like the new Titlebar functionality, but to me it seems almost like a tease. I rarely use it because whenever I do it bothers me that I can't resize or rearrange columns in-place like I can with SplashID, at least on the Worksheet or some of my Custom views.

  I think I found a very minor bug. In Tag Manager, when I tap on the Tag Category Picker in the upper-righthand corner of the screen, two small boxes appear beside the 'down arrow' almost like when a font is being used that doesn't contain all the needed characters. My Prism is running on OS 3.5.2H1.5.

  2.5 is awesome! I love especially love the tags and the new use of boolean logic. Jeff, you weren't joking when you said you wanted the handheld version to completely rock before getting onto the desktop.

  Jacob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6321

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, kenclatham wrote:

> Yes, the link arrow should not be sensitive to the presence of tags.
> 
> After reasoning out your comments on my suggestion of blending the
> link and tag functions, I have to say that I thought I knew where you
> were going...
> 
> It seems to me that tags are only "linked" because it is an efficient
> storage mechanism.  For all other purposes it should appear as though
> the tag labels themselves are stored in the record.  As such the tag
> "links" aren't real links at all, just a space saving mechanism.

	"link" means "connection", be it internal or external. They have a
more specialized set of interfaces in the tag column though, but otherwise
ebhave as any other kind of link. (Everyone got used to the idea links
were always to external, but this need not be the case ;) Its also a very
conveniant internal mechanism, as I built the link manager to support all
kinds of linkages...

> Unless, of course, I misunderstood and what you're looking to do in
> the long run is make tags an alternate hierarchy mechanism. (ie. you
> can collect the tags themselves as items in a list and those items
> linked to a tag become its (virtual?) children?

	I've not worried about this sort of thing; if I get to this, it
woudl either be a reporting module (a build report static operation), or
it woudl be way down the road ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6322

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:21pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

>   I also agree that the link arrow shouldn't be used to indicate a
> tag, but I also don't like the idea of having the awesome new tag
> information hidden on all the built-in views except the also new
> Worksheet. How's about using some other symbol instead to indicate
> when there are tags yet give the link arrow display priority if an
> item also has links? Maybe half the Expanded Tag 'interaction' symbol?
> Or the whole thing, if you can manage to shrink it even more?

	Hmm. Thats an interesting idea. Showing the link-twily thing, then
suddenly replacing it with the link arrow, could confuse people. *shrug*

	I guess I'll make the link arrow ignore tags for purposes of
display, and we'll go from there :)

>   Another suggestion - I like the new Titlebar functionality, but to
> me it seems almost like a tease. I rarely use it because whenever I do
> it bothers me that I can't resize or rearrange columns in-place like I
> can with SplashID, at least on the Worksheet or some of my Custom
> views.

	I'm not intending on having resiable columns anytime soon; the
engine coudl support it, with a little work, but its storign it and
building the UI which will be work, and I'm not sure it woudl be really
that useful (but it woudl *feel* useful ;). Gotta focus on desktop :)

>   2.5 is awesome! I love especially love the tags and the new use of
> boolean logic. Jeff, you weren't joking when you said you wanted the
> handheld version to completely rock before getting onto the desktop.

	Thanks :) I'm quite proud of 2.5 :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6323

From: Jan Bergquist  <jb.bergquist@t...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:43pm
Subject: One problem w sort

 
I had one list with items in random order, followed by one item with title
'?', and after that some more items in alphabetic order.
When I sorted, the first part, before the '?', was sorted 'by itself', i.e.
tha later items were not sorted together with the first ones.
After deleting the item with title '?', the sort went ok.
I guess this is a bug-ish thing ?
6324

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 8:46pm
Subject: re: Title Bar and Col-Bg options

 
Jeff it would be cool if the title bar would give you an option to 
name it, like if your using your saved custom view call @PC at Home 
then that name would show up quickly identifying which c.view one is 
in...

How about the color issue of col-bg, I still tend to disagree with 
you on this, how can a uniform color coordinated interface be 
unclear, I understand if you make it happen one would be able to 
choose any color but   a nice choice can be made to accomodate 
everyone, Parent show up on this color and children on that, but I'm 
only talking about the col-bg not the actual font color of the 
parents and children. Ahhh I see what you mean with all the colors 
displaying but if you once could at least change the parent col-bg 
that would be amazing, my whole point is to make it easier to scan 
items. Right now, col-bg, is not too useful, the alternating bands 
do not point to any particular information on a quick glimpse, its 
either a parent or children but there is no uniformity, but if you 
enable something like what I'm mentioning one could come up with 
something nice to look at and the actual colors would mean something.

Thanks in advance and I'm sorry I'm bringing this up again, how 
about a poll ?

George,
6325

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 9:06pm
Subject: Re: One problem w sort

 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Jan Bergquist wrote:

> I had one list with items in random order, followed by one item with
> title '?', and after that some more items in alphabetic order. When I
> sorted, the first part, before the '?', was sorted 'by itself', i.e.
> tha later items were not sorted together with the first ones. After
> deleting the item with title '?', the sort went ok. I guess this is a
> bug-ish thing ?

	yeah, seems some whacky non-ascii chars can confuse the
sorter. Still investigating.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6326

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 9:09pm
Subject: Re: re: Title Bar and Col-Bg options

 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> Jeff it would be cool if the title bar would give you an option to
> name it, like if your using your saved custom view call @PC at Home
> then that name would show up quickly identifying which c.view one is
> in...

	If you can think of a way to toggle the titlebar between
view/filter display and column display, let me know ;) I've been trying to
think of a good way to do it. (ie: Where to tap[ to toggle the tbar
mode. Perhap in the [V] popmenu :/)

> How about the color issue of col-bg, I still tend to disagree with you
> on this, how can a uniform color coordinated interface be unclear, I
> understand if you make it happen one would be able to choose any color
> but a nice choice can be made to accomodate everyone, Parent show up
> on this color and children on that, but I'm only talking about the
> col-bg not the actual font color of the parents and children. Ahhh I
> see what you mean with all the colors displaying but if you once could
> at least change the parent col-bg that would be amazing, my whole
> point is to make it easier to scan items. Right now, col-bg, is not
> too useful, the alternating bands do not point to any particular
> information on a quick glimpse, its either a parent or children but
> there is no uniformity, but if you enable something like what I'm
> mentioning one could come up with something nice to look at and the
> actual colors would mean something.

	col-bg is for aesthetics, not function. Colour-by-level is a whole
different feature :)

> Thanks in advance and I'm sorry I'm bringing this up again, how 
> about a poll ?

	I'm shifting focus to desktop for awhile.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6327

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:12pm
Subject: Moving children

 
Jeff:
Noticed on a couple lists that certain children will not move with the arrows at the bottom.  Even when I attempt to hold and move it will only indent under another item, but will refuse to move under that parent above or below another child.  Something I am missing?  Thanks.
Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6328

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 10:58pm
Subject: Re: Moving children

 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> Noticed on a couple lists that certain children will not move with the
> arrows at the bottom.  Even when I attempt to hold and move it will
> only indent under another item, but will refuse to move under that
> parent above or below another child.  Something I am missing?  

	You have "sort after changes" set?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6329

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:10pm
Subject: Thanks Jeff, perhaps with SP 3.0 Re: Title Bar and Col-Bg options

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, jledesma28 wrote:
> 
> > Jeff it would be cool if the title bar would give you an option 
to
> > name it, like if your using your saved custom view call @PC at 
Home
> > then that name would show up quickly identifying which c.view 
one is
> > in...
> 
> 	If you can think of a way to toggle the titlebar between
> view/filter display and column display, let me know ;) I've been 
trying to
> think of a good way to do it. (ie: Where to tap[ to toggle the tbar
> mode. Perhap in the [V] popmenu :/)
> 
> > How about the color issue of col-bg, I still tend to disagree 
with you
> > on this, how can a uniform color coordinated interface be 
unclear, I
> > understand if you make it happen one would be able to choose any 
color
> > but a nice choice can be made to accomodate everyone, Parent 
show up
> > on this color and children on that, but I'm only talking about 
the
> > col-bg not the actual font color of the parents and children. 
Ahhh I
> > see what you mean with all the colors displaying but if you once 
could
> > at least change the parent col-bg that would be amazing, my whole
> > point is to make it easier to scan items. Right now, col-bg, is 
not
> > too useful, the alternating bands do not point to any particular
> > information on a quick glimpse, its either a parent or children 
but
> > there is no uniformity, but if you enable something like what I'm
> > mentioning one could come up with something nice to look at and 
the
> > actual colors would mean something.
> 
> 	col-bg is for aesthetics, not function. Colour-by-level is a 
whole
> different feature :)
> 
> > Thanks in advance and I'm sorry I'm bringing this up again, how 
> > about a poll ?
> 
> 	I'm shifting focus to desktop for awhile.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6330

From: royedelstein  <jdb520@h...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 2:38am
Subject: Linking between Shadow File Entries?

 
I am very psyched at how useful the links are from Shadow to 
DateBk and AddressBk!!!   And the quick return to where you left 
off from Shadow via the Home button!  Excellent!

Is there a way to use the link function so that while I'm in Shadow 
file #1 I can create an entry in Shadow file #2?   Or even just link 
to a specific entry in Shadow file #2?   It would be ideal if i could 
link from an entry in Shadow file #1 to multiple entries in Shadow 
file #2.   

Is that possible?  So far all i've succeeded in doing is creating a 
link that opens another Shadow file for me, but doesn't let me 
link to an specific entry in that other file, nor does it let me create 
a new entry.

Here's why I ask - 
In a database program I have been playing with, I have set up a 
file for "projects", and a second for "actions".  From the "projects" 
file, I can link to the "actions" file and create new entries, all of 
which are linked to the single entry under "projects".  When I 
want, I can go to the 'actions" file to just view all of my "actions" 
for the various "projects" together, or I can view a given "project" 
and just the actions linked to it.

Then I found Shadow, which has so many higher functions!  Is 
this type of linking possible yet?  (Did i just not figure out how to 
use it right yet?)  If not, maybe in the future?

Much thx.

Roy.
6331

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:00am
Subject: Re: Moving children

 
i did, and unchecking that solved my problems.  thanks, and i'll go read in the manual what exactly sort after changes does do!
kevin

Kevin S. Giberson
Law Office of Kevin S. Giberson
Santa Cruz/Monterey/Santa Clara Counties
262 East Lake Avenue
Watsonville, CA  95076
Office:  (831) 722-4500
Fax:  (831) 722-4535
kevin@g...

------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 2:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Moving children


  On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

  > Noticed on a couple lists that certain children will not move with the
  > arrows at the bottom.  Even when I attempt to hold and move it will
  > only indent under another item, but will refuse to move under that
  > parent above or below another child.  Something I am missing?  

        You have "sort after changes" set?

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6332

From: shipwrght  <shipwrght@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 4:19am
Subject: Re: Linking between Shadow File Entries?

 
Roy, I've been linking from  one Shadow  list to a specific entry in another Shadow list  , or from Shadow to a  record in ThinkDB , with MegaWiki. At first it was a bit intimidating, but once I got into it a bit it wasn't that hard.   The more I use it, the more uses I see for it. I have several large projects that I track. I link the key Shadow  items to a memo, and can bring up the details quickly in production meetings. So far this is working very well.
    Dan

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "royedelstein" <jdb520@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I am very psyched at how useful the links are from Shadow to 
> DateBk and AddressBk!!!   And the quick return to where you left 
> off from Shadow via the Home button!  Excellent!
> 
> Is there a way to use the link function so that while I'm in Shadow 
> file #1 I can create an entry in Shadow file #2?   Or even just link 
> to a specific entry in Shadow file #2?   It would be ideal if i could 
> link from an entry in Shadow file #1 to multiple entries in Shadow 
> file #2.   
> 
> Is that possible?  So far all i've succeeded in doing is creating a 
> link that opens another Shadow file for me, but doesn't let me 
> link to an specific entry in that other file, nor does it let me create 
> a new entry.
> 
> Here's why I ask - 
> In a database program I have been playing with, I have set up a 
> file for "projects", and a second for "actions".  From the "projects" 
> file, I can link to the "actions" file and create new entries, all of 
> which are linked to the single entry under "projects".  When I 
> want, I can go to the 'actions" file to just view all of my "actions" 
> for the various "projects" together, or I can view a given "project" 
> and just the actions linked to it.
> 
> Then I found Shadow, which has so many higher functions!  Is 
> this type of linking possible yet?  (Did i just not figure out how to 
> use it right yet?)  If not, maybe in the future?
> 
> Much thx.
> 
> Roy.
6333

From: jonaz  <jonaz.list@d...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:15am
Subject: Re: Setting prefs for addr/memo linking?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jul 2002, jonaz wrote:
> 
> > tried to disable all hacks - and it still doesn't stick. Sorry. It
> > keep reverting to the standard built-in Memo app (for new links, those
> > set specifically with Set prog still link to the set app, i.e. Memo+).
> > 
> > Seems like I'm the only one with this problem and I guess I'll
> > survive. A bit annoying though.
> 
> 	I'm not sure what you mean "new links".

With "new links" I mean  when I link an item that didn't have a link to memo 
before.

> 
> 	ie: You have existing memo links, and going through them goes
> to.. what app? Built in?
> 
> 	And then you make a new memo link, and going through it goes to
> your selected proggy. When you come back to Shadow, does it go to the
> built in, or your selected proggy?

"Old" links with prefered prog set goes to that program.

> 
> 	If "recently new" memo links goes to your new proggy, and the old
> ones go to the built in, then something is truly messed up, since Shadow
> only knows about one destination proggy per link type.

But the preference doesn't "stick", so when a make a new link to memo - the 
link "reverts" to going to the built-in app.

/jonaz
6334

From: rblanzan  <rblanzan@i...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 10:12am
Subject: Re: Broken Views still

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	If you get bored and do hard resets.. god help us all if you 
get a
> week off work ;)

Format the hard drive on the PC? :P

> 	Shadow will make them, and they'll be empty, and all your 
tags and
> views and such will be 'broken'; theres no waste in those, so you 
might as
> well install them ;)

I wanted clean ones just in case there was something wrong with the 
ones I created just to prove to me that there was nothing wrong with 
them.  I only had a couple views and tags saved so no great drama.

> 	The 2.5.0 conduit appears to break view-overrides to
> custom-saved-views. I'll have a 2.5.x patch out soon (or maybe a 
2.6,
> whatever number we use :P)



> 
> > Question - yesterday, I bought a memory stick (128 megs and I 
want to
> > fill it up!).  Is it worth running shadow on it and if so, how do 
I do
> > that?
> 
> 	I use PiDirect, and keep abotu 100 apps on my memory stick 
that
> way.
> 
> 	If you wish to synch Shadow with Shadow Desktop, you can't 
put it
> on memstick (no hacks or synching apps or alarm apps can be on 
memsticks
> or the like).

I'm learning fast about what goes on memstick and what doesn't and 
I'm getting the idea with what Pidirect does and I've managed an 
acceptable combination of PiDirect and Launcher III (for looks).  I 
probably don't have a good appreciation of PiDirect as you would, 
being far more knowledgeable with what it does internally.  My 
appreciation is probably more basic (I like it because it looks good, 
sort of thing).

Thank you so much for your help.

Rita
6335

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 0:01pm
Subject: Re: Linking between Shadow File Entries?

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, royedelstein wrote:

> I am very psyched at how useful the links are from Shadow to 
> DateBk and AddressBk!!!   And the quick return to where you left 
> off from Shadow via the Home button!  Excellent!
> 
> Is there a way to use the link function so that while I'm in Shadow 
> file #1 I can create an entry in Shadow file #2?   Or even just link 
> to a specific entry in Shadow file #2?   It would be ideal if i could 
> link from an entry in Shadow file #1 to multiple entries in Shadow 
> file #2.   

	You can create an item in list #1, and then use clipboard to
"copy" (or "cut") and "send to" it the other file. (To create it in the
other file).

	You cannot yet directly link item to item in Shadow. Its
complex. I'll be adding it, but not right away. You can link an item to
the ToDo or Datebook, and then use New From or auto-import to bring it
into other lists, and thus have multiple items linked to the same To Do
(so they will share their data and stay synched), but you can't jump
between the two items Shadow to Shadow yet.

> Then I found Shadow, which has so many higher functions!  Is this type
> of linking possible yet?  (Did i just not figure out how to use it
> right yet?)  If not, maybe in the future?

	You could try tagging and custom filters and such; keep multiple
projects in a file, and do some tagging to note which things are actions,
and then a filter to reveal actions, or somesuch..

			jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6336

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 0:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Setting prefs for addr/memo linking?

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, jonaz wrote:

> But the preference doesn't "stick", so when a make a new link to memo - the 
> link "reverts" to going to the built-in app.

	Do other preference changes stick? (ie: global preferences)

	Any Hacks enabled? Try disabling them.

	Which unit and OS revision?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6337

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 0:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Broken Views still

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, rblanzan wrote:

> I'm learning fast about what goes on memstick and what doesn't and I'm
> getting the idea with what Pidirect does and I've managed an
> acceptable combination of PiDirect and Launcher III (for looks).  I
> probably don't have a good appreciation of PiDirect as you would,
> being far more knowledgeable with what it does internally.  My
> appreciation is probably more basic (I like it because it looks good,
> sort of thing).

	You can put applications on a memstick; don't put drivers
(keyboard, say), or Hacks (like megawiki, etc), or programs that need to
synch. Or programs that receive alarms. Everything else is cool.

	PiDirect is msotly for keeping your main memory pool large (an
N760C only has 8MB internally for example).

	Consider.. Mapopolis. Its a map viewer and such. Each map is 2-6MB
file. Keeping them internally is suicide of course. Putting them on a
memstick means you have to keep memory open, as it copies the files to
internal memory to view them.. so you select a map, wait 2 minutes for the
copy, and you still require 4 or 5 MB open all the time. Annoying.

	PiDirect enters.. copy all the maps to PiDirect directory;
suddenly, Mapopolis thinks of the files as intenral, but they're not. So
one can use Mapopolis without keeping oodles of memory open, and its way
faster to use. Perfect. Now I have 20MB of maps on my memstick :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6338

From: broth123  <broth123@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 0:33pm
Subject: Re: Title Bar and Col-Bg options

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, jledesma28 wrote:
> 
> > Jeff it would be cool if the title bar would give you an option to
> > name it, like if your using your saved custom view call @PC at 
Home
> > then that name would show up quickly identifying which c.view one 
is
> > in...
> 
> 	If you can think of a way to toggle the titlebar between
> view/filter display and column display, let me know ;) I've been 
trying to
> think of a good way to do it. (ie: Where to tap[ to toggle the tbar
> mode. Perhap in the [V] popmenu :/)
> 

I would suggest adding a preference checkbox to the list preferences 
that would be Filter/View Name and allow the user to select both 
titlebar and this for display.

If they selected both then the toggle would be displayed.
If only one was selected then no toggle.

I would take up a couple of pixels on the far left area where the 
check/Title area is.  It doesn't need to be bigger then the "D" 
detail that is on the Mini editor.


> > How about the color issue of col-bg, I still tend to disagree 
with you
> > on this, how can a uniform color coordinated interface be 
unclear, I
> > understand if you make it happen one would be able to choose any 
color
> > but a nice choice can be made to accomodate everyone, Parent show 
up
> > on this color and children on that, but I'm only talking about the
> > col-bg not the actual font color of the parents and children. 
Ahhh I
> > see what you mean with all the colors displaying but if you once 
could
> > at least change the parent col-bg that would be amazing, my whole
> > point is to make it easier to scan items. Right now, col-bg, is 
not
> > too useful, the alternating bands do not point to any particular
> > information on a quick glimpse, its either a parent or children 
but
> > there is no uniformity, but if you enable something like what I'm
> > mentioning one could come up with something nice to look at and 
the
> > actual colors would mean something.
> 
> 	col-bg is for aesthetics, not function. Colour-by-level is a 
whole
> different feature :)
> 
> > Thanks in advance and I'm sorry I'm bringing this up again, how 
> > about a poll ?
> 
> 	I'm shifting focus to desktop for awhile.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6339

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 0:47pm
Subject: Re: Re: Title Bar and Col-Bg options

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, broth123 wrote:

> I would suggest adding a preference checkbox to the list preferences 
> that would be Filter/View Name and allow the user to select both 
> titlebar and this for display.
> 
> If they selected both then the toggle would be displayed.
> If only one was selected then no toggle.
> 
> I would take up a couple of pixels on the far left area where the 
> check/Title area is.  It doesn't need to be bigger then the "D" 
> detail that is on the Mini editor.

	I don't think a pref is necessary.

	Taking out a piece of the "Check/Title" part as a toggle could be
workable though; some sort of little symbol like |<>| or something for
toggle mode, perhaps. Location of toggle would have to move between modes
though.. ie: It'd be far right for filter/view mode, while in the middle
for normal mode. Ah well.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6340

From: jonaz  <jonaz.list@d...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:58pm
Subject: Re: Setting prefs for addr/memo linking?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	Do other preference changes stick? (ie: global preferences)

No problems with them.
 
> 	Any Hacks enabled? Try disabling them.
I've tried with all Hacks disabled. Same behaviour.

> 	Which unit and OS revision?
IBM WorkPad c3 (equiv. Palm V) w/ PalmOS v.3.5.3

Thanks for taking your time helping to sort this out. I'm not actually needing 
the functionality in MemoPLUS _that_ much from Shadow since that's more 
"looking up". So I could live with being sent to the built-in memo app. Pehaps 
your time could be better spend on the desktop-alpha for mac... ;-)

/jonaz
6341

From: Michael Rudnick  <egroups@R...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: ToDo Category

 
I don't know if this is a question or a request. I know that I can
assign a default ToDo category to a list. I'd like to know if I can
set the category for a specific ToDo within Shadow. If I can't, could
this be a feature request to have this option in the details view of
the item, or somewhere else?

Thanks.

BTW, I'm enjoying 2.5. There are some usability issues that I think
could make it easier to set up tags, select views and choose filters.
I'm still collecting my thoughts on what I specifically want to
suggest. Overall, it's a great step up.
--
Michael Rudnick                         
egroups@r...
6342

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:20pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Category

 
Michael Rudnick asked:

I don't know if this is a question or a request. I know that I can
assign a default ToDo category to a list. I'd like to know if I can
set the category for a specific ToDo within Shadow. If I can't, could
this be a feature request to have this option in the details view of
the item, or somewhere else?
_____

If you go to the Link Manager screen for the item, you'll see the ToDo
category.

Scott
6343

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:23pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Category

 
> I don't know if this is a question or a request. I know that I can
> assign a default ToDo category to a list. I'd like to know if I can
> set the category for a specific ToDo within Shadow. If I can't, could
> this be a feature request to have this option in the details view of
> the item, or somewhere else?

Yes, you can do this in either of two ways..

1) In the link manager, after you set ToDO Link present, a line underneath
appears, offering the chance to set the category..

2) On an item with a ToDo link, the menu which pops up on the link arrow
gives the option of setting the category.

--- Malcolm
6344

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: Setting prefs for addr/memo linking?

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, jonaz wrote:

> > 	Do other preference changes stick? (ie: global preferences)
> 
> No problems with them.

	Is the receiving app on a memory stick or anything? You using
PiDirect or PowerRun or anything whacky?

	ie: Since other prefs work, this works. Set Program stores the
selected prog "id" in Shadow prefs, which you say are working. The only
way those app prefs get reset is if the apps are missing when you lauynch
Shadow...

> > 	Which unit and OS revision?
> IBM WorkPad c3 (equiv. Palm V) w/ PalmOS v.3.5.3

	Whacky. IIIc definitely works 100%.

> Thanks for taking your time helping to sort this out. I'm not actually
> needing the functionality in MemoPLUS _that_ much from Shadow since
> that's more "looking up". So I could live with being sent to the
> built-in memo app. Pehaps your time could be better spend on the
> desktop-alpha for mac... ;-)

	heh :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6345

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:44pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Category

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Michael Rudnick wrote:

> I don't know if this is a question or a request. I know that I can
> assign a default ToDo category to a list. I'd like to know if I can
> set the category for a specific ToDo within Shadow. If I can't, could
> this be a feature request to have this option in the details view of
> the item, or somewhere else?

	Link Manager.

> BTW, I'm enjoying 2.5. There are some usability issues that I think
> could make it easier to set up tags, select views and choose filters.
> I'm still collecting my thoughts on what I specifically want to
> suggest. Overall, it's a great step up.

	Be sure to let us know :)

	"Add tag" will be two-taps next update.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6346

From: Michael Rudnick  <egroups@R...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:29pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Category

 
Jeff and others,

Thanks. I don't usually go into Link Manager so I didn't notice it.
--
Michael Rudnick                         
egroups@r...

Monday, July 15, 2002, 11:44:34 AM, you wrote:
JM> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Michael Rudnick wrote:

>> I don't know if this is a question or a request. I know that I can
>> assign a default ToDo category to a list. I'd like to know if I can
>> set the category for a specific ToDo within Shadow. If I can't, could
>> this be a feature request to have this option in the details view of
>> the item, or somewhere else?

JM>       Link Manager.

>> BTW, I'm enjoying 2.5. There are some usability issues that I think
>> could make it easier to set up tags, select views and choose filters.
>> I'm still collecting my thoughts on what I specifically want to
>> suggest. Overall, it's a great step up.

JM>       Be sure to let us know :)

JM>       "Add tag" will be two-taps next update.

JM>             jeff

JM> --
JM> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
JM> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
JM> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
JM> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


JM> Yahoo! Groups SponsorClick here to find your contact lenses!


JM> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
JM> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



JM> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
6347

From: fiatspider72  <jphillips@p...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:39pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Jacob Share" <jacob@s...> wrote:
> 
>         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
>   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
>   present)?

How about using the following:

   -     no links or tags
   ->    links present
  <-     tags present
  <->    tags and links present

Just a thought...

 - Jeramy
6348

From: bonos167  <ygd@i...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:26pm
Subject: Tags ...Thanks!!!

 
I was one of those who pested you about implementing tags. I just 
wanted to take a minute to thank you. They're great! (Still using 
2.2.15a ... Does 2.5 implement everything we get on that alpha?)
6349

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:

> >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
> >   present)?
> 
> How about using the following:
> 
>    -     no links or tags
>    ->    links present
>   <-     tags present
>   <->    tags and links present
> 
> Just a thought...

	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
and/or links?

	Could be done. Other opinions?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6350

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:39pm
Subject: Re: Tags ...Thanks!!!

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, bonos167 wrote:

> I was one of those who pested you about implementing tags. I just 
> wanted to take a minute to thank you. They're great! (Still using 
> 2.2.15a ... Does 2.5 implement everything we get on that alpha?)

	Of course; alphas are step by steps to release. I'm not going to
build somethign into an alpha, and then remove it.. otherwise I wouldnt'
have built it in the firast place. I have better things to do than remove
features ;)

	I'm glad you're enjoying tagging. Very neat stuff :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6351

From: bonos167  <ygd@i...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:45pm
Subject: Re: Tags ...Thanks!!!

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

I did not realize 2.5 was also an alpha... Thought it was the REAL 
thing...   <;)

Have a good afternoon!



 Does 2.5 implement everything we get on that alpha?)
> 
> 	Of course; alphas are step by steps to release. I'm not going 
to
> build somethign into an alpha, and then remove it.. otherwise I 
wouldnt'
> have built it in the firast place. I have better things to do than 
remove
> features ;)
> 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6352

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:48pm
Subject: RE: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
I think that idea is grand!!! Wish I had thought of it!!

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:39 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:

> >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags
are
> >   present)?
> 
> How about using the following:
> 
>    -     no links or tags
>    ->    links present
>   <-     tags present
>   <->    tags and links present
> 
> Just a thought...

	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
and/or links?

	Could be done. Other opinions?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
6353

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags ...Thanks!!!

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, bonos167 wrote:

> I did not realize 2.5 was also an alpha... Thought it was the REAL 
> thing...   <;)

	2.5 is a public release. It goes alpha, alpha, alpha, for awhile,
then a beta or two to get input, then boom, release. 2.2.15a was one of
the later alphas (there were 3 more afterwards), and then the last alpha
got renamed ("promoted") to 2.5.0.

	When using alphas, always stay current (otherwise you're living on
verisons with bugs), and go to pub releases when they come. You never lose
features going forward, otherwise I wasted my time building them in the
first place, and I don't have time to throw away :)

		jeff

> 
> Have a good afternoon!
> 
> 
> 
>  Does 2.5 implement everything we get on that alpha?)
> > 
> > 	Of course; alphas are step by steps to release. I'm not going 
> to
> > build somethign into an alpha, and then remove it.. otherwise I 
> wouldnt'
> > have built it in the firast place. I have better things to do than 
> remove
> > features ;)
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6354

From: ijsinger  <phiijs@h...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
I like that suggestion. It allows for conveying both of
the different kinds of information (are links to external
databases present? are tags present?) clearly and economically.

-- Ira

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:
> 
> > How about using the following:
> > 
> >    -     no links or tags
> >    ->    links present
> >   <-     tags present
> >   <->    tags and links present
> > 
> 	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
> and/or links?
> 
> 	Could be done. Other opinions?
> 
> 		jeff
6355

From: onemoreolive  <onemoreolive@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:05pm
Subject: 2.5 doodling

 
I have a Handbase shopping list that comes in handy so I thought I'd 
try implementing it in Shadow.  The following took less than 10 min 
to develop thanks to 2.5.

1. Select a view that includes checkboxs and tags.

2. Create tags for the names of the stores you shop at.
(storeA, storeB,...)
(perhaps you could put them in a cat called stores)

3. Create filters for each store. (shopstoreA, shopstoreB,..)
The filter for each is trivial:

- Checked is false
- Tag Association to "storeX"

Presto - instant shopping list app!

If you wanted to use it for grocery shopping I suppose you could add 
tags for aisles.  Maybe one for coupon.

WARNING: Never tested in the field.  But it may have an advantage 
over the database version in that there can be multiple store tags 
for each item possibly saving a trip to a another store or for price 
comparing in different stores.

Is 2.5 fun or what?

Gerry
6356

From: onemoreolive  <onemoreolive@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:09pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
I like it too, although I think most of my lists will always have 
tags.

Gerry

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "ijsinger" <phiijs@h...> wrote:
> I like that suggestion. It allows for conveying both of
> the different kinds of information (are links to external
> databases present? are tags present?) clearly and economically.
> 
> -- Ira
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:
> > 
> > > How about using the following:
> > > 
> > >    -     no links or tags
> > >    ->    links present
> > >   <-     tags present
> > >   <->    tags and links present
> > > 
> > 	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
> > and/or links?
> > 
> > 	Could be done. Other opinions?
> > 
> > 		jeff
6357

From: Malcolm Campbell  <malcolmc@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
> Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
> and/or links?
> 
> Could be done. Other opinions?

As long as its easily distinguishable at a glance, this is a great idea.
6358

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
groovy idea

Jacob
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: fiatspider72 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 7:39 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)


  --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Jacob Share" <jacob@s...> wrote:
  > 
  >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
  >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are
  >   present)?

  How about using the following:

     -     no links or tags
     ->    links present
    <-     tags present
    <->    tags and links present

  Just a thought...

  - Jeramy


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 

        Click here to find your contact lenses! 

  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6359

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:15pm
Subject: tag ideas and such? -> tips!

 
The grocery list idea is a good one. Any others?

	Post the grocery shopping list idea to shadow-tips if you like.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6360

From: grn_white  <michael.walter@r...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:38pm
Subject: Titlebar - reverting back

 
Jeff, just stag to play with 2.5 - haven't had time to do the funstuff 
like tags - but 2.5 looks fantastically powerful

But I was playing with the titlebar - Query here - is the titlebar 
sort temporary or permanent- and does it overide the /s sort function 
which has a primary and secondary sort?  And how do I get it back to 
the way it was if I only want to sort to see something quickly and 
then want to revert back to the way the list was organized previously 
(ie. by topic but not aplphabetical?)

I would like the /s sort function to remain the same so that it always 
resorts that way when i add new items but the titleabr to be an on the 
fly resort of things which I can then revert back to how they look. 

from playing with it, i am not sure how it functions (mostly lack of 
time and laziness..:)  Jeff can you help me here. 

P.S.  I know there is a logic somewhere but why is the titlebar not a 
global pref.  And is there any way to have all of these new list pref 
features defaulted on so that it does not take me forever to add them 
in on existing lists?  I did sya I am lazy...

P.S.S. Speaking of lazy, I tried Plonk (to auto roll over overdue to 
dos to today) and it seems to work good but the autoplonk feature did 
not work and appears to have left my palm on overnight because the 
batteries were drained this am.  Hence I have turned off autoplonk.  
Anyone else notice this?
6361

From: Eric Johnson  <eric@j...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:51pm
Subject: Link Indicator alternatives. [Was Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)]

 
I think I begrudge the extra screen real estate and would prefer to compromise in the direction of the additional obscurity of four different characters, i.e., 

    -     no links or tags
    >     links present
    <     tags present
    =     tags and links present

or like that.  I'm not desperate to have a visual indicator for tag existence for those views where I choose not to use one of the tag columns, but, who knows what I might dream up for this dream of a program in the future...


-- Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:39 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:


>>> >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
>>> >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags
>>    
>>
are

>>> >   present)?
>>    
>>
>> 
>> How about using the following:
>> 
>>    -     no links or tags
>>    ->    links present
>>   <-     tags present
>>   <->    tags and links present
>> 
>> Just a thought...
>  
>

	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
and/or links?

	Could be done. Other opinions?

		jeff



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6362

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:55pm
Subject: fiatspider72 Great Idea Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
> I think that idea is grand!!! Wish I had thought of it!!
> 
> Jen
> 
> -------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:39 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@y...
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 
2.5)
> 
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:
> 
> > >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> > >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just 
tags
> are
> > >   present)?
> > 
> > How about using the following:
> > 
> >    -     no links or tags
> >    ->    links present
> >   <-     tags present
> >   <->    tags and links present
> > 
> > Just a thought...
> 
> 	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
> and/or links?
> 
> 	Could be done. Other opinions?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
6363

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:56pm
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

 
Yeah, my concern with the first example was the extra space needed for a 
third character.  I like the single character idea, more info represented 
AND less screen realestate ;)


>     -     no links or tags
>     >     links present
>     <     tags present
>     =     tags and links present
>
> >> How about using the following:
> >>
> >>    -     no links or tags
> >>    ->    links present
> >>   <-     tags present
> >>   <->    tags and links present
> >>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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6364

From: cdent@b...
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:58pm
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

> Yeah, my concern with the first example was the extra space needed for a
> third character.  I like the single character idea, more info represented
> AND less screen realestate ;)

Hate to do this but figure this is like voting and I begrudge the
extra screen space also:

  Me Too

-- 
Chris Dent  <cdent@b...>  http://www.burningchrome.com/~cdent/
"If you assume that there is an instinct for freedom, that there are
opportunities to change things, that hope is possible, then hope may be
justified, and a better world may be built. That's your choice.'' N.Chomsky
6365

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:59pm
Subject: RE: Link Indicator alternatives. [Was Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)]

 
That would be pretty hard to see for me, especially the - and the =. My
eyes aren't all that great. Even with hi res on the Clie, sometimes very
small differences like that are just too hard to distinguish.

Jen

-------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Johnson [mailto:eric@j...] 
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 3:51 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives. [Was Re: Ideas
for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)]

I think I begrudge the extra screen real estate and would prefer to
compromise in the direction of the additional obscurity of four
different characters, i.e., 

    -     no links or tags
    >     links present
    <     tags present
    =     tags and links present

or like that.  I'm not desperate to have a visual indicator for tag
existence for those views where I choose not to use one of the tag
columns, but, who knows what I might dream up for this dream of a
program in the future...


-- Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:39 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:


>>> >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
>>> >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just
tags
>>    
>>
are

>>> >   present)?
>>    
>>
>> 
>> How about using the following:
>> 
>>    -     no links or tags
>>    ->    links present
>>   <-     tags present
>>   <->    tags and links present
>> 
>> Just a thought...
>  
>

	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
and/or links?

	Could be done. Other opinions?

		jeff



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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6366

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:04pm
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

 
me too...
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: cdent@b... 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 1:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Link Indicator alternatives.


  On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

  > Yeah, my concern with the first example was the extra space needed for a
  > third character.  I like the single character idea, more info represented
  > AND less screen realestate ;)

  Hate to do this but figure this is like voting and I begrudge the
  extra screen space also:

    Me Too




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
6367

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Titlebar - reverting back

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, grn_white wrote:

> But I was playing with the titlebar - Query here - is the titlebar
> sort temporary or permanent- and does it overide the /s sort function
> which has a primary and secondary sort?  And how do I get it back to
> the way it was if I only want to sort to see something quickly and
> then want to revert back to the way the list was organized previously
> (ie. by topic but not aplphabetical?)

	The tbar sorts in fact just set your sort prefs (as if you'd used
the Sort dialog) and invoke a sort. Its permanent. "Temporary" sorts
barely exist on desktops, let alone small handhelds :)

> I would like the /s sort function to remain the same so that it always
> resorts that way when i add new items but the titleabr to be an on the
> fly resort of things which I can then revert back to how they look.

	Can't be for a variety of reasons; ie: If you had manually sorted
the list to random order, then you tbar it, and then wish to go back..
Shadow would have to remember exactly where everything was. Thats a lot of
complexity and memory (consider a 500 item list). You could use "Save As",
use a tbar sort, then "Revert" if you want, or Duplicate the list, and toy
with it there. I might add that tbar has to update the sort details,
because if you had Sort After Changes, and we didnt' update the sort
settings, you'd do a tbar sort and then it would undo itself immediately,
and thus nothing would happen.. which is not the desired effect.

> P.S.  I know there is a logic somewhere but why is the titlebar not a
> global pref.  And is there any way to have all of these new list pref
> features defaulted on so that it does not take me forever to add them
> in on existing lists?  I did sya I am lazy...

	Its not global because you may want it for some lists, and not for
others. New lists default to it on (checked) in List Prefs. Defaulting it
on for your existing lists would make some people happy, others angry, and
for all of them it would change your view. In general, upgrades should not
change someones view of the world, especially on PDAs.. passive is
better. Lazyness is not to be considered a driver for features, unless its
the main driver :)

> P.S.S. Speaking of lazy, I tried Plonk (to auto roll over overdue to
> dos to today) and it seems to work good but the autoplonk feature did
> not work and appears to have left my palm on overnight because the
> batteries were drained this am.  Hence I have turned off autoplonk.  
> Anyone else notice this?

	Seems to work fine for me.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6368

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:38pm
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

 
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

> Yeah, my concern with the first example was the extra space needed for a 
> third character.  I like the single character idea, more info represented 
> AND less screen realestate ;)

	Its an icon.. not made of characters anyway :) I don't think a
double headed arrow costs any space :)

		jeff

> 
> 
> >     -     no links or tags
> >     >     links present
> >     <     tags present
> >     =     tags and links present
> >
> > >> How about using the following:
> > >>
> > >>    -     no links or tags
> > >>    ->    links present
> > >>   <-     tags present
> > >>   <->    tags and links present
> > >>
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6369

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 0:52am
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

 
>	Its an icon.. not made of characters anyway :) I don't think a
>double headed arrow costs any space :)
>
>		jeff
>
Oh well, if it doesn't cost any more space then I'd say go ahead and use the 
double arrow.  It is certainly more distinguishable.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
6370

From: Susan Bernick  <susanb@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:34am
Subject: Shopping with Shadow

 
> 
> Presto - instant shopping list app!
> 
> WARNING: Never tested in the field.  But it may have an advantage 
> over the database version in that there can be multiple store tags 
> for each item possibly saving a trip to a another store or for price 
> comparing in different stores.
> 
> Is 2.5 fun or what?

Yes, 2.5 is great fun.  As a GtD-wannabe, I'm drawn to the notion of "one
program does all;" in my software-junkie persona, on the other hand, I kind
of like using tools that were designed for the purpose at hand.  

Do you know about HandyShopper?  There's a brand new version out with icons
and some other cool stuff.  Chris Antos is a very Jeff-like developer (Jeff
being the paradigm Palm developer, of course ;-), and the yahoo group is
ably run by Greg Gaub.  Anybody who wants more info can write me privately
at susanb@m...

Susan B.
Seattle, WA
6371

From: kennymobley  <kennymobley@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:45am
Subject: Impatient Handera owner

 
Hey, Jeff.

Excellent work on 2.5.  Shadow is an unbelievable application.  
Actually, its impressive set of features has caused my longing for 
Handera high-resolution support to increase ever more.  When can we 
(i.e., Handera 330 owners) expect to have this?  Every Shadow 
release just makes me want it more!

Thanks for the support.

Kenny
6372

From: awd3034  <awd3034@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:25am
Subject: A new Clie NR 70 owner

 
Hi Jeff,

My wife has kindly confiscated my old PDA for her own use.  This 
allowed me to spend our children's tuition money on a Clie NR70 with 
that big screen.  I remember vaguely that you mentioned that you 
might eventually write the code to make use of the extra real estate 
on that screen. Is that still on your list?

AWD 

By the way, thanks for the help with my sync problem--your suggestion 
worked great.
6373

From: William Franklin  <billf@t...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:41am
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
Message: 5
   Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 05:57:19 -0000
   From: "kenclatham" <clatham1@t...>
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	On other mentioned this.
> 
> 	Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when 
> todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just tags are 
> present)?
> 
> 	I can make a poll out of this, or just watch for 10 replies :)

>..........

>Unless, of course, I misunderstood and what you're looking to do in the
>long run is make tags an alternate hierarchy mechanism. (ie. you can
>collect the tags themselves as items in a list and those items linked
to a >tag become its (virtual?) children?

>Ken

Now that's what I would like. It would make people management so much
easier if I could tag items with people's names and then make those
things show up as child items under the persons' names that I need to
call, consult, delegate to, and etc. concerning that item.
6374

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 7:56am
Subject: #Records fetched?

 
When opening a file of many items, how does the pulsing progress bar
determine how many records there are to fetch? On one list of about 400
items, I added 4 and then saved. The saving progress bar started saving
records out of 900 items. Huh? The next time I opened the file, it was down
to 404 however. Jeff, do you know why this happens?

Jacob
6375

From: Jacob Share  <jacob@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:06am
Subject: Suggestions

 
1. How's about the conduit backs up files in directories corresponding to
the handheld's categories, like ShadowPlan160/Personal/ ?

2. When I delete a file and the confirmation pops up, how's about adding an
'Archive' button that would then delete the file from the handheld but put
it in a ShadowPlan160/Archive/ directory?

3. Putting 1. and 2. together, how's about archived files being stored in
the Archive directory of the files' categories, like
ShadowPlan160/Personal/Archive/ ?

4. Now that Shadow's Views are so powerful, I wonder if there's room for
more widgets. I'd like to see a 'Finish date column' - especially if it
could precede items, that way I could make a decent Log view of when things
happened. Ideally the same column could show the Finish date when an item
has finished or otherwise the Target date, either bolded/italicized or a
different color, so that people could recognize which was which.

I really hope the desktop will eventually support all views too, including
our saved custom views. And now I hope Jeff's thinking - that's nothing,
wait until you see what else is coming! :)

Jacob
6376

From: stugib_2000  <stuart.gibbons@p...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:48am
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

 
In that case, could the multiple-tag asterisk issue be solved by 
using the link icon instead of the Tag column?

e.g.  <-  tag present
     *<-  multiple tags present

Or something similar - I'll leave the icon design up to you!

Stuart


> 	Its an icon.. not made of characters anyway :) I don't think a
> double headed arrow costs any space :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > > >>
> > > >>    -     no links or tags
> > > >>    ->    links present
> > > >>   <-     tags present
> > > >>   <->    tags and links present
> > > >>
> >
6377

From: onemoreolive  <onemoreolive@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 11:34am
Subject: Re: tag ideas and such? -> tips!

 
> 	Post the grocery shopping list idea to shadow-tips if you 
like.
> 

Didn't know there was such a place.  I'm there.

Definitely a more appropriate place for such things.

Gerry
6378

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 0:13pm
Subject: Re: Impatient Handera owner

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, kennymobley wrote:

> Excellent work on 2.5.  Shadow is an unbelievable application.  
> Actually, its impressive set of features has caused my longing for
> Handera high-resolution support to increase ever more.  When can we
> (i.e., Handera 330 owners) expect to have this?  Every Shadow release
> just makes me want it more!

	I a bit; I've got to "some business side things" first, and do
some contractual obligations and things, and kick off desktop updates.

	Keep bugging me.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6379

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: Re: A new Clie NR 70 owner

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, awd3034 wrote:

> My wife has kindly confiscated my old PDA for her own use.  This
> allowed me to spend our children's tuition money on a Clie NR70 with
> that big screen.  I remember vaguely that you mentioned that you might
> eventually write the code to make use of the extra real estate on that
> screen. Is that still on your list?

	320x320 highres is already supported; the 320x480 without virtual
grafitti will get supported probably when I do the handera modifications..
so a little while. I can't keep working on the handheld and ignore the
desktop side :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6380

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 0:17pm
Subject: Re: Suggestions

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

> 1. How's about the conduit backs up files in directories corresponding to
> the handheld's categories, like ShadowPlan160/Personal/ ?
> 
> 2. When I delete a file and the confirmation pops up, how's about adding an
> 'Archive' button that would then delete the file from the handheld but put
> it in a ShadowPlan160/Archive/ directory?
> 
> 3. Putting 1. and 2. together, how's about archived files being stored in
> the Archive directory of the files' categories, like
> ShadowPlan160/Personal/Archive/ ?

	In awhile; categories on desktop aren't the highest priority for
desktop.

> 4. Now that Shadow's Views are so powerful, I wonder if there's room
> for more widgets. I'd like to see a 'Finish date column' - especially
> if it could precede items, that way I could make a decent Log view of
> when things happened. Ideally the same column could show the Finish
> date when an item has finished or otherwise the Target date, either
> bolded/italicized or a different color, so that people could recognize
> which was which.

	Bug me in awhile; I can add new column options, but I want to
focus on the desktop..

> I really hope the desktop will eventually support all views too,
> including our saved custom views. And now I hope Jeff's thinking -
> that's nothing, wait until you see what else is coming! :)

	.. or maybe hiding in a corner in fear of the giant To Do List
Monster :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6381

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 0:18pm
Subject: Re: #Records fetched?

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

> When opening a file of many items, how does the pulsing progress bar
> determine how many records there are to fetch? On one list of about 400
> items, I added 4 and then saved. The saving progress bar started saving
> records out of 900 items. Huh? The next time I opened the file, it was down
> to 404 however. Jeff, do you know why this happens?

	Really?

	I'll check. Maybe its miscounting the total sometimes.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6382

From: fiatspider72  <jphillips@p...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:43pm
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
> 	Its an icon.. not made of characters anyway :) I don't think a
> double headed arrow costs any space :)
> 
> 		jeff
>

> Original suggestion
>
>    -     no links or tags
>    ->    links present
>   <-     tags present
>   <->    tags and links present
>
> Modified suggestion
>
>     -     no links or tags
>     >     links present
>     <     tags present
>     =     tags and links present
>

An icon that did not take up additional space was my intention.  I
still like my idea better from an intuitive perspective.  That is if
you have an "<-" you have a tag, an "->" you have a link and "<->" you
have both.  I would not guess that "=" meant you have both.

 - Jeramy
6383

From: broth123  <broth123@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:
> 
> > >         Should the link arrow only turn from "-" to "->" when
> > >   todo/datebook/memos/addr links are present? (ie: Not if just 
tags are
> > >   present)?
> > 
> > How about using the following:
> > 
> >    -     no links or tags
> >    ->    links present
> >   <-     tags present
> >   <->    tags and links present
> > 
> > Just a thought...
> 
> 	Interesting. IS that useful, so people know if there are tags
> and/or links?
> 
> 	Could be done. Other opinions?
> 
> 		jeff

Only thought is taking up extra character space.  I would try to 
leave it to one character

      - No link or tag
      > Links present
      < Tag Present
      + Tags & Links present


> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6384

From: Gabriel Castellanos  <juangabriel@l...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:28pm
Subject: keyboard support

 
Hi Everybody:

I've been a user of shadow for almost a year.. since it is becaming more important in my daily life I start using the keyboard with it, now in the manual you can see these keyboards shortcuts:

Any alphanumeric character Start a new item with that character 
Up Arrow Move selection up to previous screen item 
Down Arrow Move selection to next screen item 
Left Arrow Collapse level and move selection to parent 
Right Arrow Expand child and move selection to first item in sublevel 
Space Demote item 
Backspace Promote item 
Page Down Scroll down one page 
Page Up Scroll up one page 


Is there any other I am not aware of? if not I like to proposed a couple:

1. Collapse
2. Expand
3. Details
4. Note


I know Jeff is very receptive to input from us, so If anybody likes this idea please say so or if not say so too!!!

Thanks

Gabriel


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6385

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:36pm
Subject: Re: keyboard support

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Gabriel Castellanos wrote:

> Hi Everybody:
> 
> I've been a user of shadow for almost a year.. since it is becaming more important in my daily life I start using the keyboard with it, now in the manual you can see these keyboards shortcuts:
> 
> Any alphanumeric character Start a new item with that character 
> Up Arrow Move selection up to previous screen item 
> Down Arrow Move selection to next screen item 
> Left Arrow Collapse level and move selection to parent 
> Right Arrow Expand child and move selection to first item in sublevel 
> Space Demote item 
> Backspace Promote item 
> Page Down Scroll down one page 
> Page Up Scroll up one page 
> 
> Is there any other I am not aware of? if not I like to proposed a couple:
> 
> 1. Collapse
> 2. Expand

	Left and Right as above.

> 3. Details

	shortcut-period.

> 4. Note

	shortcut-A

	Note that most of the Shadow menu items have keyboard equivalents,
so almost anything you can do in a menu can be done via keyboard. You can
even check and uncheck items with shortcut-spacebar :)

> I know Jeff is very receptive to input from us, so If anybody likes
> this idea please say so or if not say so too!!!

	Gotcha!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6386

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ideas for 2.5+ (and a niggle with 2.5)

 
Jeff mentioned that those symbols are not 'characters' but an icon, so the 
double arrow will not actually take more space than it does now.

>
>Only thought is taking up extra character space.  I would try to
>leave it to one character
>
>       - No link or tag
>       > Links present
>       < Tag Present
>       + Tags & Links present
>


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
6387

From: Robert Winia  <rwinia@y...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:16pm
Subject: Link Indicator alternatives

 
What about 

L     Link Indicator
T     Tag present
-     Neither
B     Both (or 2)

Robert


Message: 14
   Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:38:52 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Link Indicator alternatives.

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

> Yeah, my concern with the first example was the
extra space needed for a 
> third character.  I like the single character idea,
more info represented 
> AND less screen realestate ;)

	Its an icon.. not made of characters anyway :) I
don't think a
double headed arrow costs any space :)

		jeff

> 
> 
> >     -     no links or tags
> >     >     links present
> >     <     tags present
> >     =     tags and links present
> >
> > >> How about using the following:
> > >>
> > >>    -     no links or tags
> > >>    ->    links present
> > >>   <-     tags present
> > >>   <->    tags and links present
> > >>
> 
> 



=====
IRVIN Consulting - Brussels - Paris
Project Management and Consulting services
Working Languages French, German, Dutch & English
Robert Winia - Paris Office Manager
tel: +33 603 121 880 -  email:  rwinia@u...
Brussels Office - email: irvinconsulting@u...
tel: +322 352 8929  - fax: +322 352 8889

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6388

From: grizzjunkie  <doug809@h...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:46pm
Subject: Zoom

 
Hi Jeff,

I know that tags and filters are the sexy features du jour, but I was 
wondering about the zoom feature ...

Shadow seems to remember the 'state' a list was in when it is closed 
except in the case of the zoom feature.  For example, if I zoom in to 
a 3rd level item and then close the list ... when I reopen the list, 
it is back to the 'unzoomed' state.

Is this easy to change in your next version?


Also, (if it's easy) would you mind adding a shortcut for the zoom 
feature? ... Z seems to be available, and it could act like a toggle 
(Z to zoom, then Z again to unzoom).

Thanks,
Doug
6389

From: Michael Rudnick  <egroups@R...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:55pm
Subject: Re: keyboard support

 
Gabriel,

Thanks for bringing this up and listing the shortcuts. I'd like to put
in my (recurring) request to fix navigating with the keyboard when a
filter is active. Pressing the up or down button moves you through
*all* the entries, even the ones that are filtered out.
--
Michael Rudnick                         
egroups@r...

Tuesday, July 16, 2002, 11:28:54 AM, you wrote:
GC> Hi Everybody:

GC> I've been a user of shadow for almost a year.. since it is becaming more important in my daily life I start using the keyboard with it, now in the manual you can see these keyboards shortcuts:

GC> Any alphanumeric character Start a new item with that character 
GC> Up Arrow Move selection up to previous screen item 
GC> Down Arrow Move selection to next screen item 
GC> Left Arrow Collapse level and move selection to parent 
GC> Right Arrow Expand child and move selection to first item in sublevel 
GC> Space Demote item 
GC> Backspace Promote item 
GC> Page Down Scroll down one page 
GC> Page Up Scroll up one page 


GC> Is there any other I am not aware of? if not I like to proposed a couple:

GC> 1. Collapse
GC> 2. Expand
GC> 3. Details
GC> 4. Note


GC> I know Jeff is very receptive to input from us, so If anybody likes this idea please say so or if not say so too!!!

GC> Thanks

GC> Gabriel


GC> _____________________________________________________
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and NoTaglines -->> LYCOS MAIL PLUS.
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6390

From: deepthought_st  <lists-yahoo@x...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:08pm
Subject: My Wishlist and a Question

 
I finally got around to installing Shadow 2.5, and it rocks!  After 
playing around with it for a while, I found several things that 
would make it even better (no, I'm never satisfied).  :)  They are 
the following:

TAGS
===============================
1. Hierarchical tag support
    I want to be able to more specifically target my tags without 
drowning in a list of 'em.  For example, I might have a "U.S." tag, 
and then, within it, I'd have state tags, and then, within them, I'd 
have city tags.  I could assign the tag at any level in the 
hierarchy, and it would display any available children, as well.

2. Assign a given tag to more than one category or hierarchy
    Some tags make sense in more than one category or hierarchy (see 
#1).  :)  As it is now, I can create the same tag name in multiple 
categories, but they're treated as contextually different (ie. I can 
pick it in multiple categories and get multiple assignments, and it 
also shows up multiple times if I'm listing all tags).  With 
hierarchy support, this becomes even more important, because I'd 
only want to have to create a given hierarchy once and then share it 
under multiple categories or tags.

3. Support "groups" of tags such that you are only allowed to assign 
one of the tags from that group
    If tied in with hierarchical tags, this could be as easy as 
checking a "Grouped" checkbox for any given parent tag, and then 
you'd only be able to select one of the children (or their 
descendants).

4. Assign tags to a list (and be able to filter the list of lists by 
tags)...at this point, are categories necessary?

5. Change the dropdown arrow in the upper right of a list to allow 
quick filtering via a given tag
    The current functionality of the arrow seems like more of a one-
off thing.  How often do you need to change the category of a given 
list (especially if you can assign tags to it)? ;)  I would think 
that the far more frequently needed task is to filter your list via 
the tags (now that we've got 'em), and it would be nice to have a 
really quick way to do so (for a single tag). You could, perhaps, 
change the dropdown to list a "Change list tag..." at the top, 
followed by the tag categories.  Picking it would allow you to 
modify the list's tag assignments, while picking a category would 
allow you to drill into which tag you want to quick-filter on.
===============================

CUSTOM LISTS AND SORTING
===============================
1. Show sort indicator on titlebar (could be a problem for narrow 
columns, though)
2. Add Start Date and Finish Date to the columns that can be 
displayed (which can thus be sorted upon).
3. Allow sorting via a non-displayed field
===============================

CUSTOM FILTERS AND LINKING
===============================
1. Add ability to edit custom filter rule
    There's currently no way to edit custom filter rule, so you have 
to delete it and then re-add it.
2. Support linking to a custom view or filtered list
    I like being able to create lists of my lists that I can 
traverse to, but you can currently only link to the primary view.  I 
want to be able to link to any given filter or custom view I've 
defined for that list.  Also, the current list linking functionality 
can become cumbersome if you have a lot of lists.  I'd like to be 
able to limit the list via my list categories (or tags).  ;)
3. Double-tap on link indicator should traverse the link rather than 
take you to the link manager
    Once I've established the link, I'm far more likely to want to 
traverse the link rather than modify the link.  Of course, it would 
also be nice if I could actually set the double-tap functionality 
for the line item to traverse the link (rather than go to details).
===============================

That's it for my list for now.  Of course, I also want a nice 
desktop :), but it seems like some of these could affect desktop 
implementation (assuming they interest you, of course)...

In addition, I do have one question regarding linking...

If I have a link to another Shadow list, is there a quick and easy 
way to jump back to where I came from?  I couldn't seem to find it...

Thanks!

-- 
Sean T.
6391

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:54pm
Subject: Re: Zoom

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, grizzjunkie wrote:

> I know that tags and filters are the sexy features du jour, but I was 
> wondering about the zoom feature ...
> 
> Shadow seems to remember the 'state' a list was in when it is closed 
> except in the case of the zoom feature.  For example, if I zoom in to 
> a 3rd level item and then close the list ... when I reopen the list, 
> it is back to the 'unzoomed' state.

	This was deliberate; newbies could panic and think they've lost
all their data.

	I'll likely change this.. a pref perhaps, or make it always a
remembered state. I think Shadow users are pretty sophisticated. But I'm
still worried about an inbox explosion ;)

> Is this easy to change in your next version?

	Yes and no; its not a difficutl thing to build, but its not what
I'm working on. I've focused hard on the handheld for awhile in order to
get Shadow 2.5 out the door.. but I cannot continue to do so, for the
desktop and conduit need and deserve their fair share of updates.

> Also, (if it's easy) would you mind adding a shortcut for the zoom
> feature? ... Z seems to be available, and it could act like a toggle
> (Z to zoom, then Z again to unzoom).

	Zoom is a 3 state operation; zoom in, zoom in again, or
unzoom. Given a zoom state and a hit to /Z, you cannot tell if you wisht o
zoom in more, or unzoom. So we'd need at least two zoom shortcuts..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6392

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: keyboard support

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Michael Rudnick wrote:

> Thanks for bringing this up and listing the shortcuts. I'd like to put
> in my (recurring) request to fix navigating with the keyboard when a
> filter is active. Pressing the up or down button moves you through
> *all* the entries, even the ones that are filtered out.

	Keep bugging me :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6393

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:57pm
Subject: Tag Thoughts

 
Currently, if I select a tag from the link popup, it takes me to the tag manager. Wouldn't it make more sense to take me to the link manager, so I could alter the tags if desired?

Powered by the E-mail PIM - Info Select - www.miclog.com
6394

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 8:59pm
Subject: Re: My Wishlist and a Question

 
At one point, Jeff, you were talking about being able to copy and paste links or tags only from one entry to another. Is that still in the list, or has it fallen out?

Thanks
Ed


Powered by the E-mail PIM - Info Select - www.miclog.com
6395

From: Michael Rudnick  <egroups@R...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:00pm
Subject: Re:keyboard support

 
Jeff,

I just did. Didn't you get the hint <g>. I'll keep it up, from time to
time until you get around to it. But let's get this desktop going
first.

Thanks.
--
Michael Rudnick                         
egroups@r...

Tuesday, July 16, 2002, 4:55:08 PM, you wrote:
JM> On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Michael Rudnick wrote:

>> Thanks for bringing this up and listing the shortcuts. I'd like to put
>> in my (recurring) request to fix navigating with the keyboard when a
>> filter is active. Pressing the up or down button moves you through
>> *all* the entries, even the ones that are filtered out.

JM>       Keep bugging me :)

JM>             jeff

JM> --
JM> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
JM> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
JM> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
JM> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


JM> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

JM> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
JM> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



JM> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
6396

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:04pm
Subject: Re: My Wishlist and a Question

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, deepthought_st wrote:

> 1. Hierarchical tag support
>     I want to be able to more specifically target my tags without 
> drowning in a list of 'em.  For example, I might have a "U.S." tag, 
> and then, within it, I'd have state tags, and then, within them, I'd 
> have city tags.  I could assign the tag at any level in the 
> hierarchy, and it would display any available children, as well.

	Not going to happen anytime soon :)

> 2. Assign a given tag to more than one category or hierarchy
>     Some tags make sense in more than one category or hierarchy (see 
> #1).  :)  As it is now, I can create the same tag name in multiple 
> categories, but they're treated as contextually different (ie. I can 
> pick it in multiple categories and get multiple assignments, and it 
> also shows up multiple times if I'm listing all tags).  With 
> hierarchy support, this becomes even more important, because I'd 
> only want to have to create a given hierarchy once and then share it 
> under multiple categories or tags.

	Why not keep the tag in a "Common" category? :)

> 3. Support "groups" of tags such that you are only allowed to assign 
> one of the tags from that group
>     If tied in with hierarchical tags, this could be as easy as 
> checking a "Grouped" checkbox for any given parent tag, and then 
> you'd only be able to select one of the children (or their 
> descendants).

	Oh deer, what have I done? :)

> 4. Assign tags to a list (and be able to filter the list of lists by 
> tags)...at this point, are categories necessary?

	Categories are a simple mechanism common to all palm applications,
pretty much. I think they're good to keep around.

> 5. Change the dropdown arrow in the upper right of a list to allow 
> quick filtering via a given tag
>     The current functionality of the arrow seems like more of a one-
> off thing.  How often do you need to change the category of a given 
> list (especially if you can assign tags to it)? ;)  I would think 
> that the far more frequently needed task is to filter your list via 
> the tags (now that we've got 'em), and it would be nice to have a 
> really quick way to do so (for a single tag). You could, perhaps, 
> change the dropdown to list a "Change list tag..." at the top, 
> followed by the tag categories.  Picking it would allow you to 
> modify the list's tag assignments, while picking a category would 
> allow you to drill into which tag you want to quick-filter on.

	I'm tempted to have a option (udner Tools?) called "Tag Filter
Wizard", which would let you pick a tag and then it would drop current
filter, and create a new (unsaved) filter that would select items
featuring the picked tag. But I know right away you'd want to be able to
pick multiple tags, so it's work :/

> CUSTOM LISTS AND SORTING

> 1. Show sort indicator on titlebar (could be a problem for narrow 
> columns, though)

	View, Filter, Sort A, Dir, Sort B, Dir. Its probably too much to
show in the tbar.

> 2. Add Start Date and Finish Date to the columns that can be 
> displayed (which can thus be sorted upon).

	yeah. Remind me. I'd like to add this, since now you can attach
them to views so it'd be okay to flip between them as needed.

> 3. Allow sorting via a non-displayed field

	You can, via the Sort menu. It doesnt' care what you have
displayed. The tbar only shows you the titles of columns you have, so only
lets you sort on those columns.

> CUSTOM FILTERS AND LINKING
> ===============================
> 1. Add ability to edit custom filter rule
>     There's currently no way to edit custom filter rule, so you have 
> to delete it and then re-add it.

	Yeah; remind me.

> 2. Support linking to a custom view or filtered list

	What do you mean?

>     I like being able to create lists of my lists that I can 
> traverse to, but you can currently only link to the primary view.  I 
> want to be able to link to any given filter or custom view I've 
> defined for that list.  Also, the current list linking functionality 
> can become cumbersome if you have a lot of lists.  I'd like to be 
> able to limit the list via my list categories (or tags).  ;)

	I'm lost.

> 3. Double-tap on link indicator should traverse the link rather than 
> take you to the link manager

	Not useful, since you can have many links. And no, having it work
when you have one link, and not work for many, is uncool.

>     Once I've established the link, I'm far more likely to want to 
> traverse the link rather than modify the link.  Of course, it would 
> also be nice if I could actually set the double-tap functionality 
> for the line item to traverse the link (rather than go to details).

	UI's must be consistent. Having it work differently on each line
would drive you nuts.

> That's it for my list for now.  Of course, I also want a nice desktop
> :), but it seems like some of these could affect desktop
> implementation (assuming they interest you, of course)...

	You're a wicked and dangerous man!

> In addition, I do have one question regarding linking...
> 
> If I have a link to another Shadow list, is there a quick and easy way
> to jump back to where I came from?  I couldn't seem to find it...

	The Recent Files popup is pretty handy; you can obtain it many
ways. If Shadow is bound to a hardkey, push it. Theres a shortcut and a
menu item for it, and I think its udner [V] too.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6397

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:04pm
Subject: Re: Tag Thoughts

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Learned wrote:

> Currently, if I select a tag from the link popup, it takes me to the
> tag manager. Wouldn't it make more sense to take me to the link
> manager, so I could alter the tags if desired?

	Not sure; what is more useful? (ie: To add/remove the tag from
existance, or to add/remove it from the item?) I guess LM may be more
appropriate.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6398

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:05pm
Subject: Re: My Wishlist and a Question

 
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Learned wrote:

> At one point, Jeff, you were talking about being able to copy and
> paste links or tags only from one entry to another. Is that still in
> the list, or has it fallen out?

	Up to you guys, but I think I'd ratehr focus on desktop :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
6399

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: keyboard support

 
Same with using the button toolbar arrow


>in my (recurring) request to fix navigating with the keyboard when a
>filter is active. Pressing the up or down button moves you through
>*all* the entries, even the ones that are filtered out.


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
6400

From: Earthlink  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 10:02pm
Subject: Re: My Wishlist and a Question

 
I agree, focus on desktop, even though i would still appreciate some of the suggestions being implemented.  There is plenty there for most now, and need that conduit working properly for syncing, and then some desktop stuff so we can work there once in a while too.  I say conduit and desktop focus for a while Jeff.  Thanks.
Kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] My Wishlist and a Question


  On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Learned wrote:

  > At one point, Jeff, you were talking about being able to copy and
  > paste links or tags only from one entry to another. Is that still in
  > the list, or has it fallen out?

        Up to you guys, but I think I'd ratehr focus on desktop :)

              jeff




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