From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2001 6:58pm
Subject: Re: FYI: XML Tutorials

I forwarded this to shadow-desktop. This sort of thing shuld
really go there, though its pretty empty now. I hope to start ramping it
up again soon.

		jeff

On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 pollyq@m... wrote:

> For those who are, or want to be, playing with the XML files that 
> Shadow now generates, check out this tutorial website:
> 
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/education/transforming-
> xml/xmltosvg/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: compugag@i...
Date: Sat Apr 7, 2001 2:33am
Subject: Re: Follow a File Link "upstream"?

> > I'd like to see a way to generate that TOC file automatically 
without 
> > having to create each item, type in the linked file name, and 
create 
> > the link.
> 
> 	Hmm. You can't do it now. I could make something to generate a
> shadow list from your current listing, but I wouldn't want to make 
it
> smart enough to add missing lists to it. Maybe a fun side-program :P
> 
> 		jeff

How about an option: when you link a file to an empty (blank) 
element, you'd have an option to use the file's name as the text of 
the element.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Apr 7, 2001 5:34pm
Subject: MAC folks? Help with hardware for development..

I would like some help in determining what hardware to buy in
order build the Mac conduit. I'm not interested in a flashy new machine. I
would prefer something that could run OSX, but I'm betting a lot of folks
will stick with OS9.1 or earlier, and I'm hoping (someone tell me?) that
OS9.1 conduits will continue to work in the Mac classic environment of
OSX.

	So I'd like a machine that is lower power (ie: cheap!), that won't
cramp me *much* -- I'm not going to become a heavy Mac developer. Just
build these conduits, and later test the desktop applicvation.. but it'll
be done in java and built on my other machines. so it'll be a short
conduit job. (The conduit will be done in CodeWarrior for MacOS).

	I'd like a laptop, since then it would be useful to carry around
to work, etc, for other things. Apple laptops are sexy. I just have no
idea about how much ram I need, or the processor type and speed. I can
list off the software requirements here, and I'm hoping you guys can tell
me what the minimum *usable* configuration would be, in various
flavours. ie: Don't tell me the minimum.. that'd suck. But tell me the
absoute minimum, plus the actual humanly enjoyable minimum -- I'd like it
to be a useful experience and not a painful nasty one :) Oh, and how much
does OS9 cost? OSX? OS8?

	Hardware requirements:

	RAM? Hard drive? Processor? No idea what I'm talking about
	for Macs :) A nice colour display woudl be good :)
	Ethernet would be nice. Don't need a modem.

	Conduit development:

	Mac OS 8.1 or higher (say 9.x even?)
	Metroworks Codewarrior for MacOS
		(Codewarrior Pro R3 and R4. Supports powerpc and 68k)

	Looks like I can get only the newest CodeWarrior, which is
	pricey and has steeper requirements..

	<snip from Metroworks>
For development hosted on Classic Mac OS
- Mac OS 8.6 or 9.x
- CarbonLib 1.0.4
- PowerPC 601 processor or higher
- 64 MB RAM
- 150 MB Free hard disk space
- CD-ROM drive for installation

For development hosted on Mac OS X
- Mac OS X DP4
- G3 processor or higher
- 128 MB RAM
- 150 MB Free hard disk space
- CD-ROM drive for installation
	</snip>

	The OS machine sounds like a real machine -- G3 is expensive,
no? IS the powerpc 601 series inexpensive?

	I'd prefer a laptop, but it coudl be an iMac or something.

	Any ideas?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Apr 7, 2001 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Re: Follow a File Link "upstream"?

On Sat, 7 Apr 2001 compugag@i... wrote:

> How about an option: when you link a file to an empty (blank) 
> element, you'd have an option to use the file's name as the text of 
> the element.

	Eeep. Pretty arrely used I'd imagine. How about bring this up in a
few weeks, once I've gotten a bug fix and minor feature release out (read,
I don't wish to screw anythign up ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Sun Apr 8, 2001 6:42am
Subject: Filter across lists?

Jeff,

  Have you given any thought (or has it been requested) to allow 
filtering *across* lists, either within and/or across categories? 
This would be of great help to those of us who, like myself, manage 
several projects simultaneously and keep a separate project task list 
for each one to help keep the data organized and the operations 
faster. But there are many times during the day when I wish I could 
view at once, e.g. high priority tasks coming due in all projects, so 
I could plan my day accordingly to ensure that needs are addressed in 
all areas. A filter that allows the selection of multiple lists, or 
perhaps to start with, all lists in the current category, that would 
consolidate the results into a single window would be ideal.

In addition to project management, I also use Life Balance to plan my 
life on a whole, using Stephen Covey's 7 Habits methods.  If you 
implemented tags (as you forecast for 1.6 or 1.7), along with this 
type of filtering above, I could take LB off my Palm and save that 
precious RAM for more Shadow files! :-)

Here's hoping...

Greg

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 8, 2001 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Filter across lists?

On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

>   Have you given any thought (or has it been requested) to allow 
> filtering *across* lists, either within and/or across categories? 

	Yes and yes :) Not a frequent request, but its something I've been
thinking about on and off for a few months. Its lower priority than other
things like better desktop support, so it'll be awhile. My goal was to
have a set of "umbrella queries" you coudl invoke from the file selection
screen -- say "give me things coming up next week", and it would search
all the lists in the current category (which could be All).

> view at once, e.g. high priority tasks coming due in all projects, so 
> I could plan my day accordingly to ensure that needs are addressed in 
> all areas. A filter that allows the selection of multiple lists, or 
> perhaps to start with, all lists in the current category, that would 
> consolidate the results into a single window would be ideal.

	I agree. I've been needing this myself :)

> In addition to project management, I also use Life Balance to plan my 
> life on a whole, using Stephen Covey's 7 Habits methods.  If you 
> implemented tags (as you forecast for 1.6 or 1.7), along with this 
> type of filtering above, I could take LB off my Palm and save that 
> precious RAM for more Shadow files! :-)

	heh. I could even scrap tags, per se, if I allowed sorting and
filtering based on address links, since they basicly give you the same
sort of thing. Debating :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Bob & Kelly Hughes  <bhughes@d...>
Date: Sun Apr 8, 2001 8:35pm
Subject: RE: scrap tags?

On Sunday, April 8, 2001, Jeff wrote:

<< heh. I could even scrap tags, per se, if I allowed sorting and
<< filtering based on address links, since they basicly give you the same
<< sort of thing. Debating :)


Sorting and filtering on address links would be great, but I believe that
tags would be much more powerful since they would permit people to track
many other attributes other than people (which sorting and filtering on
address links would permit).

I'd be very sad to see you abandon the implementation of tags.  I had been
counting on seeing them work their way into Shadow eventually. Sigh....

Regards,
Bob Hughes








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Apr 8, 2001 8:40pm
Subject: Re: RE: scrap tags?

On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Bob & Kelly Hughes wrote:

> Sorting and filtering on address links would be great, but I believe that
> tags would be much more powerful since they would permit people to track
> many other attributes other than people (which sorting and filtering on
> address links would permit).

	My thought was.. nothing stopping you from entering a resource
name into an address book entry. ie: Create a category called "equipment",
to keep things separate, and then enter in "on order", "desktop PCs",
whatever. Then you could set a link to "on order" to know its state. Do a
sort on addr links, and thus find out all itemson order.

	Seems a fgood idea. It just "feels" wrong. If I create a tag
system, then its simply a tag database, a tag editor, and a link system to
the tag database. Identical items to the addr and memo links.. just with a
different name. If I create a tag system I need ot create the tag
editor. Not a big deal, but it struck me as an option :)

> I'd be very sad to see you abandon the implementation of tags.  I had been
> counting on seeing them work their way into Shadow eventually. Sigh....

	Nono, fear not. I'll not give them up. Its *how* they're done that
is the question. If I can reuse something already out there, to save
peopel learning an interface, to save space, to make desktop editting
easier.. its a big win ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tddisc@y...
Date: Sun Apr 8, 2001 9:16pm
Subject: Re: MAC folks? Help with hardware for development..

If you want a PowerBook, I would recommend one of the recent 
PowerBook G3s. The prices have dropped since the release of 
the new PB G4 Titaniums, they have plenty of power for what you 
want, and they will run Mac OS X. I would also recomend at least 
128 Megs of RAM, but with RAM prices so cheap, you could 
easily double that. All recent Macs come with built-in ethernet so 
that isn't a porblem.

SmallDog has a refurbished PB G3/500  
128Ram/12gb/DVD/56K/Firewire for $1750 and several PB 
G3/400 between $1500-1700. You can buy a new iMac for $900 
which would met your needs except the memory which is easily 
upgraded. Of course that are many other places to look, but 
check out dealmac.com for some good deals.

Any recent Mac will come with MacOS 9.x and MacOS X can be 
bought for around $100 (although Apple sells it for $130). 

As a Mac user, I am looking forward to your development of 
conduits and a desktop version. Thanks for a great program.

td

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I would like some help in determining what hardware to buy in
> order build the Mac conduit. I'm not interested in a flashy new 
machine. I
> would prefer something that could run OSX, but I'm betting a lot 
of folks
> will stick with OS9.1 or earlier, and I'm hoping (someone tell 
me?) that
> OS9.1 conduits will continue to work in the Mac classic 
environment of
> OSX.
> 
> 	So I'd like a machine that is lower power (ie: cheap!), that won't
> cramp me *much* -- I'm not going to become a heavy Mac 
developer. Just
> build these conduits, and later test the desktop applicvation.. 
but it'll
> be done in java and built on my other machines. so it'll be a 
short
> conduit job. (The conduit will be done in CodeWarrior for 
MacOS).
> 
> 	I'd like a laptop, since then it would be useful to carry around
> to work, etc, for other things. Apple laptops are sexy. I just have 
no
> idea about how much ram I need, or the processor type and 
speed. I can
> list off the software requirements here, and I'm hoping you 
guys can tell
> me what the minimum *usable* configuration would be, in 
various
> flavours. ie: Don't tell me the minimum.. that'd suck. But tell me 
the
> absoute minimum, plus the actual humanly enjoyable 
minimum -- I'd like it
> to be a useful experience and not a painful nasty one :) Oh, and 
how much
> does OS9 cost? OSX? OS8?
> 
> 	Hardware requirements:
> 
> 	RAM? Hard drive? Processor? No idea what I'm talking about
> 	for Macs :) A nice colour display woudl be good :)
> 	Ethernet would be nice. Don't need a modem.
>

From: Bob & Kelly Hughes  <bhughes@d...>
Date: Sun Apr 8, 2001 11:15pm
Subject: RE: RE: scrap tags?

<< On Sunday, April 8, 2001 Jeff wrote:

<< thought was.. nothing stopping you from entering a resource
<< name into an address book entry. ie: Create a category called
"equipment",
<< to keep things separate, and then enter in "on order", "desktop PCs",
<< whatever. Then you could set a link to "on order" to know its state. Do a
<< sort on address links, and thus find out all items on order.


<< Seems <like> a <good> idea. It just "feels" wrong. If I create a tag
<< system, then its simply a tag database, a tag editor, and a link system
to
<< the tag database. Identical items to the address and memo links.. just
with a
<< different name. If I create a tag system I need to create the tag
<< editor. Not a big deal, but it struck me as an option :)

<< No no, fear not. I'll not give them up. Its *how* they're done that
<< is the question. If I can reuse something already out there, to save
<< people learning an interface, to save space, to make desktop editing
<< easier.. its a big win ;)


I understand your desire to maximize the use of existing resources, etc.
but there are some big issues here for me using Link Manager & Address Book
for a tag system.

The issues I see are:
1)       Link Manager takes approx 4-5 seconds to pop up *every* time.  This
is *way* too long for tag management (for me at least).
2)       I really don't want to clutter Address Book with all sorts of
resource lists.  I want to keep Address Book for "addresses & phone numbers"

Just my 2 cents worth.. Anyone else??

Regards,
Bob Hughes






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 2:26am
Subject: Pen Computing review scanned!

See:
  
        http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/reviews/shad64pc2.png
  
        Its a 450K PNG file, but any modern browser should be able to 
handle it just fine. I have a 3MB TIF if anyone really wants it ;)
  
                jeff
 
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 7:09am
Subject: Re: scrap tags?

Hear, hear.

Jeff, I vote for you to not abandon the tag system. The way I 
understand it (at least IMHO), they're not simply another version of 
the links you already have, but rather *attributes* by which users 
can categorize their data for sorting and filtering; a 3-dimensional 
method, if you will, of cataloging, and a tremendously powerful 
feature.

What Bob says is right; namely, the Address Book should be used for 
what it was intended for and that's all.  Once you start trying to 
shoehorn it into another purpose, you pollute what's there already, 
kind of analogous to junk e-mail cluttering your Inbox and making it 
more difficult to locate the "real" data.  It's also analogous to a 
poor programming technique I've seen countless times: interpreting 
the type of data in a field by two different methods, depending upon 
the value therein.

Stay on track with your original thoughts re tags and do it right. 
We'll wait. If (I mean *when* :-) you pull this off, you'll have the 
meanest app out there; that is, it'll be even meaner. :-)

Greg

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Bob & Kelly Hughes" <bhughes@d...> wrote:
> I understand your desire to maximize the use of existing resources, 
etc.
> but there are some big issues here for me using Link Manager & 
Address Book
> for a tag system.
> 
> The issues I see are:
> 1)       Link Manager takes approx 4-5 seconds to pop up *every* 
time.  This
> is *way* too long for tag management (for me at least).
> 2)       I really don't want to clutter Address Book with all sorts 
of
> resource lists.  I want to keep Address Book for "addresses & phone 
numbers"
> 
> Just my 2 cents worth.. Anyone else??

From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 8:42am
Subject: RE: Filter across lists?

This would suit me a lot.
I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
involved in project-based work.
I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like the 'look
and feel' of shadow so much. I'm still evaluating the best way to set things
up. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g. Health+Safety, Technical,
Personnel, Training, etc. and could adjust due dates, to re-view and
re-organise tasks. Still experimenting to decide best way to set things up
to give me a daily task list across all lists. I have around 150 tasks, as
short and long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could
use one humungous list, but that could be very slow.

Keep up the good work!!

Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeff Mitchell [SMTP:support@s...]
> 
> >   Have you given any thought (or has it been requested) to allow 
> > filtering *across* lists, either within and/or across categories? 
> 
> 	Yes and yes :) Not a frequent request, but its something I've been
> thinking about on and off for a few months.

From: MacQueen, Andy  <AMacQueen@o...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 1:44pm
Subject: RE: FYI: XML Tutorials

I can't locate shadow-desktop in yahoogroups. Can you please provide a full
URL?

Thanks
Andy

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jeff Mitchell [SMTP:support@s...]
> Sent:	Friday, April 06, 2001 7:58 PM
> To:	shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:	Re: [shadow-discuss] FYI:  XML Tutorials
> 
> 
> 	I forwarded this to shadow-desktop. This sort of thing shuld
> really go there, though its pretty empty now. I hope to start ramping it
> up again soon.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 pollyq@m... wrote:
> 
> > For those who are, or want to be, playing with the XML files that 
> > Shadow now generates, check out this tutorial website:
> > 
> > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/education/transforming-
> > xml/xmltosvg/index.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 2:00pm
Subject: RE: FYI: XML Tutorials

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, MacQueen, Andy wrote:

> I can't locate shadow-desktop in yahoogroups. Can you please provide a full
> URL?

	shadow-desktop is currently only a mailing list from one of my
machines. Please check out:

	http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/maillist.html

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Mark Biven  <mbiven@b...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 2:57pm
Subject: RE: Filters Across Lists

I think filters across a list is an incredible feature. That would allow me
to have a "container" list with links to other lists. For example:

Container
  Marketing (link to Marketing list)
  Client Projects (link to Client project list)
  Sub Contract Opportunities (link....)
  Internal Projects (link....)

I could accomplish with a single list, however it would be quite large.

Mark Biven

Message: 7
   Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:42:29 +0100
   From: "MacQueen, Andy" <AMacQueen@o...>
Subject: RE: Filter across lists?

This would suit me a lot.
I manage a busy operational production department, rather than being
involved in project-based work.
I'm just migrating from a ToDo to shadow environment cos I like the 'look
and feel' of shadow so much. I'm still evaluating the best way to set things
up. Under ToDo, I used categories for, e.g. Health+Safety, Technical,
Personnel, Training, etc. and could adjust due dates, to re-view and
re-organise tasks. Still experimenting to decide best way to set things up
to give me a daily task list across all lists. I have around 150 tasks, as
short and long-term objectives, and delegated tasks to be managed. I could
use one humungous list, but that could be very slow.

Keep up the good work!!

Andy

From: verxion@p...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 5:14pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Completion Date

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I'll leave it to a vote. If you can get a number of folks to 
say
> its great, I'll add a shadow pref and see how it goes. If I do it 
then,
> I'll do it in a couple weeks.. I want to get a few fixes in for 
1.5.0
> bugs, and a couple new features (improved searching for address
> linking, etc). Thus, I don't want to complicate things too much and 
risk
> breaking anything :)
> 
> 		jeff

I brought this up some time back Jeff.  The fact that currently we 
only get linkage of the target date has been somewhat problematic for 
me.

The URL to my previous post on this is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/message/295

I still have a need to track to more than just the target date.  What 
I proposed before was a "floating to-do that starts on the start date 
and ends on the target date".  This way, a single to-do item 
represents my task.  Now that we have linking, I can create this todo 
in datebk and then link to it in shadow, but I have no way to create 
it in shadow itself.

-Joe Chott

From: verxion@p...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 5:24pm
Subject: Jeff, couple things

Please, if you are working on 1.5.x bugfixes, then toss this to the 
side until later.  I specifically have been waiting to bring this up 
until 1.5.0 was out, and I can certainly wait longer to bring it up 
again if that would be better.

Have you messed with the linking in datebk4?  I have.  I love 
it.  :)  The thing I like MOST is something that I suspect that your 
design methodology DOESN'T like.  In datebk4, if I "go" to a link, it 
pulls up (as best I can tell) a local "browser" of the data that lets 
me review the link, tapping the data of the link brings me right back 
to where I was in datebk4.  That is INVALUABLE.  I can view the link 
and get back in like a billisecond.  I understand that phlemhack 
allows you to do the same thing with a swipe, but I use fitaly stamp, 
and it doesn't appear to be compatible with it.  I am going to try 
something equivalent in co-launcher and see how well it works.  
Still, having to use a hack to get this functionality is kindof 
problematic.

I understand that doing this the way datebk does causes the size of 
shadow to bloat up for functionality already present in the palm.  
The solution of course, is OS level linking support (which should 
have been in ages ago, but as we know, is not).  Since that isn't 
viable, the end user ends up wanting something better.

I guess I wouldn't even bring it up as a request for shadow except 
that I have been using datebk4 a lot more lately, and frankly, I -
*LOVE*- how easy it is to navigate to/from links in it.

As always, I am just giving my point of view, and I realize that 
there are BILLIONS of other shadow users that may feel differently 
than I do.  :)

-Joe Chott

From: Dave Lowe  <davelowe_99@y...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 6:17pm
Subject: Re: Jeff, couple things

Fitaly has a new version of the Fitaly Stamp software that supports
"passthrough swipes". I'm using using McPhling with Fitaly Stamp
without problem. Presumably phlemhack also works.

Dave
 
>Have you messed with the linking in datebk4?  I have.  I love 
>it.  :)  The thing I like MOST is something that I suspect that your 
>design methodology DOESN'T like.  In datebk4, if I "go" to a link, it 
>pulls up (as best I can tell) a local "browser" of the data that lets 
>me review the link, tapping the data of the link brings me right back 
>to where I was in datebk4.  That is INVALUABLE.  I can view the link 
>and get back in like a billisecond.  I understand that phlemhack 
>allows you to do the same thing with a swipe, but I use fitaly stamp, 
>and it doesn't appear to be compatible with it.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Jeff, couple things

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> Please, if you are working on 1.5.x bugfixes, then toss this to the 
> side until later.  I specifically have been waiting to bring this up 
> until 1.5.0 was out, and I can certainly wait longer to bring it up 
> again if that would be better.

	Welp, I'm working on fixes and speedups for 1.5.0 to mke it
better, and desktop support. ie: Translator tools for windows to turn the
XML into RTF, HTML, etc. Then onto two way conduit. Then onto Shadow
Desktop proper. Etc :)

> design methodology DOESN'T like.  In datebk4, if I "go" to a link, it 
> pulls up (as best I can tell) a local "browser" of the data that lets 
> me review the link, tapping the data of the link brings me right back 
> to where I was in datebk4.  That is INVALUABLE.  I can view the link 

	Oh, if I had free time :)

	Datebook4 is 450k, because he has chunks of all those other apps
built into DB4. Thats handy, but 450k? Crazyness :) Also, he has been
working on DB4 full time for years, so hes had time to build all that
:) He doesn't need to work on a desktop app, either, since you can use the
existing stuff :)

	I may work on something like that, but I need to focus on the
desktop stuff frist I think :)

> and get back in like a billisecond.  I understand that phlemhack 
> allows you to do the same thing with a swipe, but I use fitaly stamp, 
> and it doesn't appear to be compatible with it.  I am going to try 
> something equivalent in co-launcher and see how well it works.  
> Still, having to use a hack to get this functionality is kindof 
> problematic.

	All the arranger folks love it, and theirs is a built-in hack ;)

> I understand that doing this the way datebk does causes the size of 
> shadow to bloat up for functionality already present in the palm.  
> The solution of course, is OS level linking support (which should 
> have been in ages ago, but as we know, is not).  Since that isn't 
> viable, the end user ends up wanting something better.

	Not OS level linking, but OS level multitasking; the OS doesn't do
true multitasking or windowing (like pocketpc or newton). So you can't
open up a browser withotu seriosu code duplication as you say. ITs a huge
amount of work. The gain is conveniance for linkage, but I'm betting half
the users of Shadow don't use links at all :/ (sadly)

	I woudl like to add split screen view (Actually, I'm planning a
split screen view for 2 shadow files for a few months from now :), but
adding in support for all those other guys ...

	But heres something.

	I could add a read-only pop-up view, perhaps. A pref to use local
browsers instead, so when you goto a link, it just pops up a box showing
the details, and maybe has a "true goto" button at the bottom to launch
the desired app to view it. *shrug*

> I guess I wouldn't even bring it up as a request for shadow except 
> that I have been using datebk4 a lot more lately, and frankly, I -
> *LOVE*- how easy it is to navigate to/from links in it.

	Yep; it was the trhing that caught my attention about DB4; I
really don't care for much of what it does, but the icons, colour, and
split screen (mostly the split screen) are what you go "WOW!" about.

> As always, I am just giving my point of view, and I realize that 
> there are BILLIONS of other shadow users that may feel differently 
> than I do.  :)

	Oh, I wish there were billions; but you speak your opinion, which
makes it very valid indeed!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 8:10pm
Subject: Re: Jeff, couple things

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	But heres something.
> 
> 	I could add a read-only pop-up view, perhaps. A pref to use 
local
> browsers instead, so when you goto a link, it just pops up a box 
showing
> the details, and maybe has a "true goto" button at the bottom to 
launch
> the desired app to view it. *shrug*

THAT would be AWESOME. That is precisely what I am wanting.  Any way 
you could implement this at any point in the future would be just 
kick-butt.  If I had this, it would turn Shadow into the app without 
which I cannot live.  I suspect that I would end up not using the 
other apps much at all, and my life would change because I would get 
everything done on time.  :)

-Joe Chott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 8:26pm
Subject: Re: Re: Jeff, couple things

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> > 	I could add a read-only pop-up view, perhaps. A pref to use 
> local
> > browsers instead, so when you goto a link, it just pops up a box 
> showing
> > the details, and maybe has a "true goto" button at the bottom to 
> launch
> > the desired app to view it. *shrug*
> 
> THAT would be AWESOME. That is precisely what I am wanting.  Any way 
> you could implement this at any point in the future would be just 
> kick-butt.  If I had this, it would turn Shadow into the app without 
> which I cannot live.  I suspect that I would end up not using the 
> other apps much at all, and my life would change because I would get 
> everything done on time.  :)

	Note that I said read-only (or meant to :) -- Show only. I'm not
interested at this point in writing a replacement for memo, address,
datebook, etc (especially datebook! :). So if I make a built-in viewer,
it'd be just that -- a viewer. You tap on a link, pick a name, and a box
would pop up (liek glance), to show you his name, where he works, phone
numbera, addresses, whatever. Very simple.

	That wouldnt' be that much work, since code to read all the
various databases is already in place..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pradley@r...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 9:38pm
Subject: Reverse linking

Would it be possible to reverse link, that is, enter a ToDo - in 
ActionNames or Datebk4 or the system ToDo list - and have it link to 
Shadow? The problem now, of course, is that if I want such linking I 
MUST enter the ToDo in Shadow. Would this involve a tremendous 
increase in application size or complexity? PDR

From: verxion@p...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 9:41pm
Subject: Re: Jeff, couple things

Note that I said "That would be AWESOME".  I knew you were talking 
about read-only.  That is all I wanted.  :)  The news that it is very 
simple because the code to read the other databases is already in 
place just makes me froth at the mouth.  :)

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> 
> > > 	I could add a read-only pop-up view, perhaps. A pref to use 
> > local
> > > browsers instead, so when you goto a link, it just pops up a 
box 
> > showing
> > > the details, and maybe has a "true goto" button at the bottom 
to 
> > launch
> > > the desired app to view it. *shrug*
> > 
> > THAT would be AWESOME. That is precisely what I am wanting.  Any 
way 
> > you could implement this at any point in the future would be just 
> > kick-butt.  If I had this, it would turn Shadow into the app 
without 
> > which I cannot live.  I suspect that I would end up not using the 
> > other apps much at all, and my life would change because I would 
get 
> > everything done on time.  :)
> 
> 	Note that I said read-only (or meant to :) -- Show only. I'm 
not
> interested at this point in writing a replacement for memo, address,
> datebook, etc (especially datebook! :). So if I make a built-in 
viewer,
> it'd be just that -- a viewer. You tap on a link, pick a name, and 
a box
> would pop up (liek glance), to show you his name, where he works, 
phone
> numbera, addresses, whatever. Very simple.
> 
> 	That wouldnt' be that much work, since code to read all the
> various databases is already in place..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 9:42pm
Subject: Re: Reverse linking

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., pradley@r... wrote:
> Would it be possible to reverse link, that is, enter a ToDo - in 
> ActionNames or Datebk4 or the system ToDo list - and have it link 
to 
> Shadow? The problem now, of course, is that if I want such linking 
I 
> MUST enter the ToDo in Shadow. Would this involve a tremendous 
> increase in application size or complexity? PDR

Unless I am blatantly misunderstanding you, that functionality is in 
1.5.0 of shadow plan.  Just load it up and go to town.  I love it.  :)

-Joe Chott

From: pradley@r...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 10:26pm
Subject: Re: Reverse linking

It is true that you can import the WHOLE ToDo database at once, but 
you cannot enter a single ToDo and then import it alone. If you first 
import the whole ToDo database, then enter a new ToDo in AN or 
Datebk, then import the whole database again, you will get the new 
ToDo, but you will also get duplicates of all the others. The manual 
says something about allowing in the future for ToDo imports by 
categories - which is all that I would need. - In shadow-discuss@y..., 
verxion@p... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., pradley@r... wrote:
> > Would it be possible to reverse link, that is, enter a ToDo - in 
> > ActionNames or Datebk4 or the system ToDo list - and have it link 
> to 
> > Shadow? The problem now, of course, is that if I want such linking 
> I 
> > MUST enter the ToDo in Shadow. Would this involve a tremendous 
> > increase in application size or complexity? PDR
> 
> Unless I am blatantly misunderstanding you, that functionality is in 
> 1.5.0 of shadow plan.  Just load it up and go to town.  I love it.  
:)
> 
> -Joe Chott

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 10:30pm
Subject: Re: Reverse linking

Create your ToDo in the native app (or your favorite native-DB 
compatible app :-) then go to Shadow's menu and choose Item/New 
From...

I think this does what you want to do.

Greg

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., pradley@r... wrote:
> It is true that you can import the WHOLE ToDo database at once, but 
> you cannot enter a single ToDo and then import it alone. If you 
first 
> import the whole ToDo database, then enter a new ToDo in AN or 
> Datebk, then import the whole database again, you will get the new 
> ToDo, but you will also get duplicates of all the others. The 
manual 
> says something about allowing in the future for ToDo imports by 
> categories - which is all that I would need. - In shadow-
discuss@y..., 
> verxion@p... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., pradley@r... wrote:
> > > Would it be possible to reverse link, that is, enter a ToDo - 
in 
> > > ActionNames or Datebk4 or the system ToDo list - and have it 
link 
> > to 
> > > Shadow? The problem now, of course, is that if I want such 
linking 
> > I 
> > > MUST enter the ToDo in Shadow. Would this involve a tremendous 
> > > increase in application size or complexity? PDR
> > 
> > Unless I am blatantly misunderstanding you, that functionality is 
in 
> > 1.5.0 of shadow plan.  Just load it up and go to town.  I love 
it.  
> :)
> > 
> > -Joe Chott

From: pradley@r...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2001 10:34pm
Subject: Re: Reverse linking

Right on, thank you very much. PDR--- In shadow-discuss@y..., 
glacefield@v... wrote:
> Create your ToDo in the native app (or your favorite native-DB 
> compatible app :-) then go to Shadow's menu and choose Item/New 
> From...
> 
> I think this does what you want to do.
> 
> Greg
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., pradley@r... wrote:
> > It is true that you can import the WHOLE ToDo database at once, 
but 
> > you cannot enter a single ToDo and then import it alone. If you 
> first 
> > import the whole ToDo database, then enter a new ToDo in AN or 
> > Datebk, then import the whole database again, you will get the new 
> > ToDo, but you will also get duplicates of all the others. The 
> manual 
> > says something about allowing in the future for ToDo imports by 
> > categories - which is all that I would need. - In shadow-
> discuss@y..., 
> > verxion@p... wrote:
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., pradley@r... wrote:
> > > > Would it be possible to reverse link, that is, enter a ToDo - 
> in 
> > > > ActionNames or Datebk4 or the system ToDo list - and have it 
> link 
> > > to 
> > > > Shadow? The problem now, of course, is that if I want such 
> linking 
> > > I 
> > > > MUST enter the ToDo in Shadow. Would this involve a tremendous 
> > > > increase in application size or complexity? PDR
> > > 
> > > Unless I am blatantly misunderstanding you, that functionality 
is 
> in 
> > > 1.5.0 of shadow plan.  Just load it up and go to town.  I love 
> it.  
> > :)
> > > 
> > > -Joe Chott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:10am
Subject: Re: Reverse linking

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 pradley@r... wrote:

> Would it be possible to reverse link, that is, enter a ToDo - in 
> ActionNames or Datebk4 or the system ToDo list - and have it link to 
> Shadow? The problem now, of course, is that if I want such linking I 
> MUST enter the ToDo in Shadow. Would this involve a tremendous 
> increase in application size or complexity? PDR

	You can do a "New From" to pick up an item created from some other
application.

	An outside app cannot link into Shadow unless it knows about it
and was written for that purpose, which, I don't think has been done yet
(thoughthe information on how to is published). Its really up to the other
apps to link to Shadow..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:17am
Subject: Re: Re: Reverse linking

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 pradley@r... wrote:

> It is true that you can import the WHOLE ToDo database at once, but 
> you cannot enter a single ToDo and then import it alone. If you first 

	You can :) See "New From", under the Item menu, in 1.5.0.

> import the whole ToDo database, then enter a new ToDo in AN or 
> Datebk, then import the whole database again, you will get the new 
> ToDo, but you will also get duplicates of all the others. The manual 
> says something about allowing in the future for ToDo imports by 
> categories - which is all that I would need. - In shadow-discuss@y..., 

	Just make sure you're using 1.5.0; 1.4.0 cannot do this.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 6:30pm
Subject: Just a note

The latest version of shadow on the egroups file area is 1.3.11.  
Perhaps it needs a bit of updating?  :)

-Joe Chott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 6:32pm
Subject: Re: Just a note

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> The latest version of shadow on the egroups file area is 1.3.11.  
> Perhaps it needs a bit of updating?  :)

	Oh, heh, forgot entirely about egroups storing it :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Charis Computer Services  <mail@c...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 7:40pm
Subject: Question regarding flat view

Is it possible in the flat view (when combined with filters) to show ONLY
the tasks that match the filter and not show all of the heading above them?
This would be more useful in my opinion.  Currently, (unless I am
overlooking it somehow) when I select flat view with a filter enabled, I see
not only the items I am interested in, but also the parent items of those
items.  I would like to see only the items I am interested in, not including
the parent items.  Is there some way to do this or is this something to be
considered for a future version?

Thanks for any help!

Joshua Cook
Charis Computer Services
www.chariscomp.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 7:48pm
Subject: Re: Question regarding flat view

On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Charis Computer Services wrote:

> Is it possible in the flat view (when combined with filters) to show ONLY
> the tasks that match the filter and not show all of the heading above them?

	Not yet; I need to work on it before the parents can be
suppressed;  I just added it back onto my list of things to do :)

> This would be more useful in my opinion.  Currently, (unless I am
> overlooking it somehow) when I select flat view with a filter enabled, I see
> not only the items I am interested in, but also the parent items of those
> items.  I would like to see only the items I am interested in, not including
> the parent items.  Is there some way to do this or is this something to be
> considered for a future version?

	Future; I did it the way it is now, so as to keep context; I have
alot of leaf items that all look alike. As such, without parents showing,
they're less meaningful or useless. So I'll have to make a
suppress-parents options, and then prepend the first 20 charas of the
parents to each item in the flat view, so that you have some idea what it
is. Or something.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 9:58pm
Subject: Breaking tradition; Shadow 1.5.2 *alpha* released!

Its not been through much testing, but I want as many tests as I  
can get so I can rush this (or a better version) out in a week or 
two. Maybe a few more bugs to fix, yet.
        
        This version has a few bugs fixed (so that it shouldn't crash when
weird things happen to the Archive), can beam itself and Shadow files to  
other units, and has a mega fast searcher in the Link Manager for finding
address links.
        
        Still working on the memo search, but you should be able to search
through 2000 addresses in a second.. lightning fast!
        
        Please let me know if beaming works, and if the address searcher
is as good as I think it is :)
        
        http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow152.zip
                
                jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 0:06am
Subject: BTW: Re, Shadow 1.5.2 and beaming; read first

Be sure to backup all your data before receiving a beam of Shadow
Plan itself. Beams are known to do odd things, and since I'm essentially
testing without having two units, its hard for me to know everything that
can happen. Beaming of Shadow files shoudl work perfectly. Beaming of
Shadow itself to someone with Shadow.. needs testing :)
  
                jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Malcolm Firth  <mnf1000@l...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:45am
Subject: Re: Breaking tradition; Shadow 1.5.2 *alpha* released!

Dear Jeff,

Today I downloaded the new alpha version you released hoping that it may
help with the problem I have had importing links from the address book/memo
pad. Unfortunately I am still getting the same "Fatal Exception" message
when I try to import these links. This is what happens:

1) Open my outline
2) Select one of the children
3) Press "DETAILS" button
4) Press "LINK" button
5) Press "ADD" button
6) I am NOT shown any further screen (i.e. with a choice of importing from
address book or memo pad). Instead, I see, for a second, addresses from my
address book loading, and then the "FATAL EXCEPTION" screen appears, and the
Handspring Visor Deluxe needs to be reset.

I have disabled all my hacks and soft reset the Visor, but this makes no
difference. Any ideas about what is going on? How to cure this problem? I'd
appreciate your thoughts.

Malcolm

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 0:36pm
Subject: HTML or PDF?

I currently include the manual as HTML format, with a subdirectory
full of images.

	Would it be preferable to use a PDF manual? One file in the
distribution, that has all the images and stuff embedded right within? Or
does everyone like HTML?

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Bear  <ace_xe@y...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:10pm
Subject: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

Jeff,

I would like to toss out a possible adddition to your list of To-do's. 
 Its only a small wish, teeny even, why you wouldn't even notice it 
while your doing it, and probly could be done in less then 50 lines 
of code, I guarantee.

Since you have now added in the ability to link to addresses, could 
you add in one small extra for the users of Action Names???  From what 
I can tell (FWICT for all you chat-kiddies) when A.N. links a name to 
a todo all it does to the todo db is add the name inside brackets at 
the end of the todo and then recognizes the addition when it displays 
the item.

So...

an Action Names Todo, might origional look like this:
     Call for help
Linking an address to the todo, A.N. will display:
     Superdude, Jeff Call for help
When the above is imported into Shadow, Shadow displays:
     Call for help [Superdude,Jeff]

Now after all of that, I can tell you exactly what I would like.
A)  An Option in shadow to generate the name in brackets link for A.N.
B)  For Shadow to be able to recognize that A.N. has linked an address 
 by placing it in the brackets
C)  The possiblity of hiding the A.N. bracket commands
D)  A pony!

See, that has got to be one of the simplist requests you have gotten 
yet.



Enjoy!

BEAR

- - User endorsement - - 
*** I used to be just be evil.  I'd go out burning 
villiges, starting riots, stealing candy from children and changing 
lanes on the highway without using my turn singnal.  My life was a 
mess.  Then I found Shadow.  I was impressed that three out of four 
Mad Scientists and Dark Overlords perferred it over the compition.  
I've never been so well integrated with my Palm(pilot).  In short 
it changed my life.  Yep, I used to be evil, but now with Shadow, I'm 
EVIL and ORGANIZED!***

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:18pm
Subject: Re: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bear wrote:

>  Its only a small wish, teeny even, why you wouldn't even notice it 
> while your doing it, and probly could be done in less then 50 lines 
> of code, I guarantee.

	heh. If it were so easy :)

	If I did this, then you'd want AN icon support, too, and then I
have to do DateBk4 links and icons, and... :) (Traditionally, I've avoided
adding too much program-specific code to Shadow.. once the desmktop side
is more complete then I'll feel mroe free to work on code for other apps
with shadow.. seems misdirected to spend time on other apps, when theres
still oots to do in Shadow itself?)

> Now after all of that, I can tell you exactly what I would like.
> A)  An Option in shadow to generate the name in brackets link for A.N.

	Is it in the name, or in the note? Putting it in there can be
trouble.. since the following happens: Putting the name at the end means
that the items are nolonger in sync -- Shadow has to then either add the
bracketed stuff to its own item (to keep them in sync), or try and figure
out which parts to ignore. Then it becomes an issue of.. how many people
put brackets in their title? Then shadow has to examine the title with
brakcets, and see if the stuff in the brackets looks like a link name, or
if it was just some text in brackets. Lotws of slow lookups there.

> B)  For Shadow to be able to recognize that A.N. has linked an address 
>  by placing it in the brackets

	You mean ,if importing an item has stuff in brackets, and it
happens the stuff matches a name in the addressbook, to automatically link
to it? Thats easier then (A) above :)

	A question arises;; if you link to a name in AN, and then go to
the addressbook application and rename someone (correct spelliong,
say).. I assume then that AN loses the link?

> C)  The possiblity of hiding the A.N. bracket commands

	I'll likely do that later. AN is complex, since it uses all kidns
of weird stuff; ICON, and [], and *this or that.. pretty messy. DB4 uses a
mroe consistent notation which is easier to hide. After the desktop stuff
goes in, feel free to bug me all you like about this.. for now, it seems a
bit of work to do when I'd rather owkr more on desktop.

	You can "hide all notes", if you like, though, to keep them from
adding to much space to your screen..

> D)  A pony!

	ha! You da man :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: G. Edw. Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 2:12pm
Subject: Re: HTML or PDF?

I don't have any problem with HTML or PDF, but what would really be nice is
a small DOC file that included the key points.

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> 
> 	I currently include the manual as HTML format, with a subdirectory
> full of images.
> 
> 	Would it be preferable to use a PDF manual? One file in the
> distribution, that has all the images and stuff embedded right within? Or
> does everyone like HTML?
>

From: G. Edw. Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: Re: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bear wrote:
> 
> >  Its only a small wish, teeny even, why you wouldn't even notice it 
> > while your doing it, and probly could be done in less then 50 lines 
> > of code, I guarantee.
> 
> 	heh. If it were so easy :)
> 
> 	If I did this, then you'd want AN icon support, too, and then I
> have to do DateBk4 links and icons, and... :) (Traditionally, I've avoided
> adding too much program-specific code to Shadow.. once the desmktop side
> is more complete then I'll feel mroe free to work on code for other apps
> with shadow.. seems misdirected to spend time on other apps, when theres
> still oots to do in Shadow itself?)

What, did I hear DateBk4 Link Support?  <grin>  Just kidding Jeff.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 2:52pm
Subject: Re: HTML or PDF?

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, G. Edw. Learned wrote:

> I don't have any problem with HTML or PDF, but what would really be nice is
> a small DOC file that included the key points.

	I've thought about this; or perhaps a Shadow format file, since
not all Shadow users may have a DOC reader. What points to include in the
mini-manual?

	It'd take awhile to write.. writing manuals isn't my strongpoint,
as you may have noticed ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: chodges@f...
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: A Kind Reminder about HTML Exporting

Jeff:

Congratulations again on version 1.5.  It definitely is a huge 
improvement over previous versions.  I had mentioned to you before 
about exporting the Target Date when exporting a list to HTML and you 
asked me to remind you about it after 1.5 came out.

Is it possible to do this?  

Here's another example of what I'm thinking of:

* Release 1   4/15/2001
  - Fix bugs   4/1/2001
  - Integration Testing 4/10/2001


and so on.....

This way I can publish my project plan for my team and my managers 
right from Shadow!!

Thanks,

Christopher Hodges

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:06pm
Subject: Re: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "G. Edw. Learned" <learned@t...> wrote:
> What, did I hear DateBk4 Link Support?  <grin>  Just kidding Jeff.

Oooooh oooooooh, I think I heard datebk4 link support!  Oh wait, 
maybe I didn't.  :)  (By the way, I would actually be able to rule 
the world if I had that. . .)

-Joe Chott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:14pm
Subject: Re: A Kind Reminder about HTML Exporting

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 chodges@f... wrote:

> Congratulations again on version 1.5.  It definitely is a huge 
> improvement over previous versions.  I had mentioned to you before 
> about exporting the Target Date when exporting a list to HTML and you 
> asked me to remind you about it after 1.5 came out.
> 
> Is it possible to do this?  
> 
> Here's another example of what I'm thinking of:
> 
> * Release 1   4/15/2001
>   - Fix bugs   4/1/2001
>   - Integration Testing 4/10/2001
> 
> and so on.....
> 
> This way I can publish my project plan for my team and my managers 
> right from Shadow!!

	Would you just want it listed in text after the title text, or in
some html funky formatting?

	btw.. There will be a tool released in approx 2 weeks (to the
mailing lists, for beta, first) to do Shadow conduit files into HTML, RTF,
maybe other formats. It would include most data about an item. So at that
point, it becomes just push the old hotsync button, run the translator,
pick a list, and push translate to publish :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "G. Edw. Learned" <learned@t...> wrote:
> > What, did I hear DateBk4 Link Support?  <grin>  Just kidding Jeff.
> 
> Oooooh oooooooh, I think I heard datebk4 link support!  Oh wait, 
> maybe I didn't.  :)  (By the way, I would actually be able to rule 
> the world if I had that. . .)

	DateBook link support?

	Does he have something like the links I have? (ie: Datebook can
link to items in todo, etc?)  My specs are published.. if anyone wants to
link anything to shadow, its very easy to do, and I'll help them
out. (ie: Shadow honours Goto requests to load a list or load a list and
go to a specific record)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Aaron Ebata  <aebata@h...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:22pm
Subject: RE: HTML or PDF?

> 	I've thought about this; or perhaps a Shadow format file, since
> not all Shadow users may have a DOC reader. What points to include in the
> mini-manual?

I think a manual in Shadow format would be a great idea (progect does this)!
Main topics could be items, with subtopics as children and details in notes.
Being able to expand notes for an item/topic to see details would be a nice
illustration of Shadow's features.  Of course, this could also get a bit
clunky and take a lot of work!

Aaron

From: john lill  <johnlill2@y...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 5:12pm
Subject: RE: HTML or PDF?

I agree - that was one thing I liked when I was
evaluating outliners/project managers. I was able to
see the cool features on Progect without having to
start from scratch. And Shadow has so many more really
cool features!

--- Aaron Ebata <aebata@h...> wrote:
> 
> I think a manual in Shadow format would be a great
> idea (progect does this)!
> Main topics could be items, with subtopics as
> children and details in notes.
> Being able to expand notes for an item/topic to see
> details would be a nice
> illustration of Shadow's features.  Of course, this
> could also get a bit
> clunky and take a lot of work!
> 
> Aaron
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

From: chodges@f...
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:25pm
Subject: Re: A Kind Reminder about HTML Exporting

> 	Would you just want it listed in text after the title text, or 
in
> some html funky formatting?
> 
> 	btw.. There will be a tool released in approx 2 weeks (to the
> mailing lists, for beta, first) to do Shadow conduit files into 
HTML, RTF,
> maybe other formats. It would include most data about an item. So at 
that
> point, it becomes just push the old hotsync button, run the 
translator,
> pick a list, and push translate to publish :)
> 
> 		jeff

Just listed as text after the title would be fine.  And I'm looking 
forward to the tool.  I'll definitely give it a try when its ready.

Thanks,

Christopher Hodges

From: Bear  <ace_xe@y...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:29pm
Subject: Re: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

OK, not to give up easily, I'll expound some more.  And like I said, I 
 would like to see these changes, but realizing how development goes, 
I will settle for them being added to your to-do list...

> 	If I did this, then you'd want AN icon support, too, and then 
I
> have to do DateBk4 links and icons, and... :) 
Nope, I just want (for now) the address linking fixed up a bit for 
A.N.  I rarely use the icons, they tend to clutter up valuable 
realistate.  As for DateBK4, nobody realy uses that hack anyway. 
(j/k :)
> 
> > Now after all of that, I can tell you exactly what I would like.
> > A)  An Option in shadow to generate the name in brackets link for 
A.N.
> 
> 	Is it in the name, or in the note? Putting it in there can be
> trouble.. since the following happens: Putting the name at the end 
means
> that the items are nolonger in sync -- Shadow has to then either add 
the
> bracketed stuff to its own item (to keep them in sync), or try and 
figure
> out which parts to ignore. Then it becomes an issue of.. how many 
people
> put brackets in their title? Then shadow has to examine the title 
with
> brakcets, and see if the stuff in the brackets looks like a link 
name, or
> if it was just some text in brackets. Lotws of slow lookups there.

From what I can tell, A.N. just puts the addressee at the end of the 
to-do name.  I did a quick experiment copying the name of a person I 
linked in A.N. and pasting it in a test shadow  to-do.  The to-do 
looked as such "test [name, person]".  I then linked "test" to the 
palm to-do db.  When I went back into A.N., A.N. recognized the link 
and allowed me to goto "person name's" address info.  Like I said, 
eeeeeeeasy.

As far as the problem of editting address names, well if I'm stoopid 
enough to need someone for a reasorse and can't spell their name, I 
deserve the trouble fixing it would cause... of course Shadow could be 
made the mentor of keeping track that the bracketed name and the link 
coincide, but that would run over my promised 50 lines of code 
change...  :)

> > B)  For Shadow to be able to recognize that A.N. has linked an 
address 
> >  by placing it in the brackets
> 
> 	You mean ,if importing an item has stuff in brackets, and it
> happens the stuff matches a name in the addressbook, to 
automatically link
> to it? Thats easier then (A) above :)

Yep I want this as well!  Not to be unreasonable or anything :)  But I 
would like (A) first, sinse I use Shadow to create to-do's more often 
than Act Names.

> 
> 	A question arises;; if you link to a name in AN, and then go 
to
> the addressbook application and rename someone (correct spelliong,
> say).. I assume then that AN loses the link?
> 
> > C)  The possiblity of hiding the A.N. bracket commands
> 
Lets just forget about (C) for a while.  It's only a clean-up function 
and the name in bracket after the to-do only emphises that there is an 
address link anyhow.

> > D)  A pony!
> 
> 	ha! You da man :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
In finishing, Repition is the key to remembering, Repition is the key 
to remembering.  I would be happy, for now, if this could be 
recognized as something to be added to the future changes list.  I 
truly would like to see the conduit and desktop app finished before I 
get my pony...


Enjoy!
BEAR



-=-NEVER, and I mean NEVER, teach a cat to say "TUNA", its all he'll 
ever want to talk about!- BEAR-=-

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bear wrote:

> In finishing, Repition is the key to remembering, Repition is the key 
> to remembering.  I would be happy, for now, if this could be 
> recognized as something to be added to the future changes list.  I 
> truly would like to see the conduit and desktop app finished before I 
> get my pony...

	Ah, well, its on my list :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: G. Edw. Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: One more shady item for your Shadow list of Shadow addons

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Bear wrote:
> 
> > In finishing, Repition is the key to remembering, Repition is the key 
> > to remembering.  I would be happy, for now, if this could be 
> > recognized as something to be added to the future changes list.  I 
> > truly would like to see the conduit and desktop app finished before I 
> > get my pony...
> 
> 	Ah, well, its on my list :)

Is that the request or the pony on the list?

:)

From: compugag@i...
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 8:21pm
Subject: Table of contents on opening

I've just finished a TOC outline, and I'd love a way to have that 
open by default on starting the app.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 8:29pm
Subject: Re: Table of contents on opening

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 compugag@i... wrote:

> I've just finished a TOC outline, and I'd love a way to have that 
> open by default on starting the app.

	So you specifically do not want Shadow to open the last file you
were in?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: GL Bucher  <buch2001@u...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 8:33pm
Subject: RE: HTML or PDF?

I would prefer PDF, since i can import with Docs to Go and view on my Prism.

Gary
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
  Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:37 PM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] HTML or PDF?



        I currently include the manual as HTML format, with a subdirectory
  full of images.

        Would it be preferable to use a PDF manual? One file in the
  distribution, that has all the images and stuff embedded right within? Or
  does everyone like HTML?

              Jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Josh Morris  <joshsm@y...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 9:37pm
Subject: Re: HTML or PDF?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I currently include the manual as HTML format, with a 
subdirectory
> full of images.
> 
> 	Would it be preferable to use a PDF manual? One file in the
> distribution, that has all the images and stuff embedded right 
within? Or
> does everyone like HTML?
> 
> 		Jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

Well, HTML doesn't bother me as long as it's one document (I just 
save it as a text file and then convert it to doc using mktldoc). PDF 
wouldn't be bad, either, since there is Aportis' free PDF-doc 
converter as well as the add-on for DocsToGo for those of use who 
have it. (There's also the beta Acrobat reader for PalmOS.) The 
Shadow format would be nice as well, if only to serve as an example 
(I'd probably only want the highlights and basics in this format). 
The PDF and Shadow formats get my votes. The doc format can be 
converted easily enough from the PDF or even the HTML with third 
party tools (Aportis, DocsToGo, iSiloWeb, mktldoc, etc.)

Thanks,
Josh

From: compugag@i...
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:02pm
Subject: Re: Table of contents on opening

Good point. How about an easy way to pull up a default (TOC) outline?

 
> > I've just finished a TOC outline, and I'd love a way to have that 
> > open by default on starting the app.
> 
> 	So you specifically do not want Shadow to open the last file 
you
> were in?
> 
> 		jeff
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: Table of contents on opening

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 compugag@i... wrote:

> Good point. How about an easy way to pull up a default (TOC) outline?

	Links back to it from other lists?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Mary Ann Chapman  <chapman@f...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:06am
Subject: Re: Re: HTML or PDF?

I like HTML.

M.A.

At 02:37 PM 04/11/2001, you wrote:
>--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> >       I currently include the manual as HTML format, with a
>subdirectory
> > full of images.
> >
> >       Would it be preferable to use a PDF manual? One file in the
> > distribution, that has all the images and stuff embedded right
>within? Or
> > does everyone like HTML?
> >
> >               Jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
>micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
>is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>Well, HTML doesn't bother me as long as it's one document (I just
>save it as a text file and then convert it to doc using mktldoc). PDF
>wouldn't be bad, either, since there is Aportis' free PDF-doc
>converter as well as the add-on for DocsToGo for those of use who
>have it. (There's also the beta Acrobat reader for PalmOS.) The
>Shadow format would be nice as well, if only to serve as an example
>(I'd probably only want the highlights and basics in this format).
>The PDF and Shadow formats get my votes. The doc format can be
>converted easily enough from the PDF or even the HTML with third
>party tools (Aportis, DocsToGo, iSiloWeb, mktldoc, etc.)
>
>Thanks,
>Josh
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Terry Kyte  <kyte@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:14am
Subject: Expand/Collapse all links feature

Feature request: The ability to expand or collapse all links.  I like the
way a linked address shows up underneath an item - very useful feature to be
able to turn on or off.  Similar to the way there is a menu option to
collapse or expand all memos and items.

Terry.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:37am
Subject: Re: Expand/Collapse all links feature

On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Terry Kyte wrote:

> Feature request: The ability to expand or collapse all links.  I like the
> way a linked address shows up underneath an item - very useful feature to be
> able to turn on or off.  Similar to the way there is a menu option to
> collapse or expand all memos and items.

	Anyone else like this? We're getting to have an excessive number
of expand/collapse options :P

	I could perhaps give a grafitti shortcut, to save on menus? Or
perhaps stick all the exp/collapse options under the [V] popmenu?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 3:56am
Subject: While you're adding items to your list...

Don't forget that way back when...
you asked to be reminded to add double-click to view notes, when a 
single click is set to expand.

and on the subject of expand...
my vote is for:
"stick all the exp/collapse options under the [V] popmenu"

tommyb

From: L Newman  <lnewman@n...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 11:19am
Subject: Re: Expand/Collapse all links feature

For me, I only ever expand and collapse items as needed - therefore a long
list of options around the same theme does nothing for me.  Personally, I'd
like to have link to todo and link to diary options on the first details
screen rathr than as a subset.

Len

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Expand/Collapse all links feature


> On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Terry Kyte wrote:
>
> > Feature request: The ability to expand or collapse all links.  I like
the
> > way a linked address shows up underneath an item - very useful feature
to be
> > able to turn on or off.  Similar to the way there is a menu option to
> > collapse or expand all memos and items.
>
> Anyone else like this? We're getting to have an excessive number
> of expand/collapse options :P
>
> I could perhaps give a grafitti shortcut, to save on menus? Or
> perhaps stick all the exp/collapse options under the [V] popmenu?
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 11:56am
Subject: Re: While you're adding items to your list...

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 tommyb@i... wrote:

> Don't forget that way back when...
> you asked to be reminded to add double-click to view notes, when a 
> single click is set to expand.

	Hmm; no, I think it was double-tap on an expanded not to bring up
the note editor directly. I never wanted to do double-taps on the existing
icons, I don't think. Anyway, back onto my list :)

> "stick all the exp/collapse options under the [V] popmenu"

	Just worried about the popmenus getting out of control. Just too
many features :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: mitz009@a...
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 0:17pm
Subject: keyboard support

Jeff,

You asked to be reminded about potentially adding the ability to 
navigate the main list window with the arrow keys, just like you can 
within a list.  I wonder if that would mean being able to hit 
the "return" button to get the list to open from that window as well?

Anyway, thanks for a great product.

Henry

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 0:34pm
Subject: Re: Expand/Collapse all links feature

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, L Newman wrote:

> For me, I only ever expand and collapse items as needed - therefore a long
> list of options around the same theme does nothing for me.  Personally, I'd
> like to have link to todo and link to diary options on the first details
> screen rathr than as a subset.

	No room, especially when I add even more linking options (to
Diddlebug, etc). Thats why I made the Link button just handle all those
links, and tried to make it easy by also making it quick to access from
the main list view as well.

		jeff

> 
> Len
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Expand/Collapse all links feature
> 
> 
> > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Terry Kyte wrote:
> >
> > > Feature request: The ability to expand or collapse all links.  I like
> the
> > > way a linked address shows up underneath an item - very useful feature
> to be
> > > able to turn on or off.  Similar to the way there is a menu option to
> > > collapse or expand all memos and items.
> >
> > Anyone else like this? We're getting to have an excessi