From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 6:21pm
Subject: Re: Possibility of an alternative field to Target/Start/Finish an alternative to a Time field

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, John Hatto wrote:

> Thanks for your useful tips (see below).  

	No problem :)

> It struck me afterwards that what I was asking for could have wider
> appeal if I restated it as an additional field to the
> Target/Start/Finish flags and the Note field that can be added to any
> List entry.  It may be that I am missing something basic but I assume
> none of the different types of Lists provide this.  Such a field might
> be used for flagging up a range of issues such as price or source of
> supply that different users might want to sort upon.

	I will be adding a "misc field" eventually, where you can enter in
whatever you want (and I may even support some basic functions like
summation of the preceeding misc fields.. hard to say). I'll be supporting
a "misc small" and "misc large" field, so that you can control how wide it
displays in the custom view.

> I would want to be able to insert a number or mixed number /text
> entry. I could for example insert '23' to show an event occurred at
> 11pm. (Similarly 23:30 or 23.5 could stand for 11.30pm though the
> effects on sort might be different but the function clearer).
> 
> Of course ideally (for my time field) it could be an automatically
> calculated field (or this might even be available as a Palm OS tool) but
> I could live without that.  

	There shoudl be a time-stamp shortcut (like the date-stamp
shortcut),

> Sorry to persist but with all these ideas floating around it seems a
> good time to mention it.

	Ideas are good. Worst that can happen is it goes onto my todo list
for awhile. But better there than in space, right? :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 6:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Improvements???

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, veb8 wrote:

> Even though I couldn't program software if my life depended on it, I 
> do understand your position as when I worked at an interactive 
> exhibit at a museum, I hated the question about how long it would 
> take to get to the head of the line.  I avoided answering the 
> question whenever possible because there were just too many variables 
> and I am sure you are dealing with a similar situation.

	Ahh, the eternal custom service paradox :)

	Well, read on for lots of answers to questions asked an unasked,
to find out about the trials and tribulations of a Palm OS developer
living in todays tough economic times :) I generally never talk about the
"business", but you asked, and why not, just this once.

> Having said that, I can also identify with the folks who are
> frustrated at the lack of progress on the desktop.  As I have told you
> off list, you are one of my favorite palm software developers for so
> many of the good things you have done, including making ShadowPlan
> accessible to people like me, with disabilities because it was the
> right thing to do.  I think I am feeling their pain though because it
> has seemed to me for quite awhile, that the desktop was at the top of
> your priority list but keeps getting shoved aside for other issues.

	It has to have been how it has been. There are many variables,
both public and not. Suffice to say that many thinsg require both "showing
changes" (like UI changes, and new functionality, etc), and "hidden
changes" (like architecture changes, behind the scenes, planning,
designing, testing and research, etc). Many of the desktop things have had
extensive time in investigation and implementation that you would never
know about, yet had to be done and occupied months of time. Take for
instance international support. I'm betting 80% of the folks here didn't
notice any changes form desktop 1.0 to the current desktop, because it
didn't effect them. However, it was massive architecture growth and
research, since the question of how to support chinese fonts stored in XML
across various platforms and encodings and working with the various palm
encodings and packages and multiple versions of Windows all with their own
dubious and distinct implementations of international support.. its a
massive undertaking. Also, when building a cross platform application, one
must take into consideration the cause and effects of the other platforms
(like Unix and MacOS which are radically different). Were it all written
just for Windows, or just for MAcOS, it would've been a much easier
undertaking. But I refuse to be the bartender who refuses to serve 10% of
the population because they speak a different language. Instead I learn
their language ;)

	Factor all that into the fact I must develop that which I have
time to do; if I can make a large number of people happy with 2 simple to
implement features, versus 1 long painful nasty one, I may just have to do
it in the order that makes some people happy fast and get those shorter
ones out of the way. Factor in summer and enjoying some life with the
family, economics, running a business and various legal obligations.. it
ends up going the way it has to go ;)

	Also note that the desktop, though further down the list a few
months ago, is very much at the top nowadays, once I finish some of the
custom filter stuff (which is a setup for tags, which is the other #1
item. Getting custom filters out gives people on the handheld somethign ot
use and tool and test with for awhile, while I retool for the desktop work
again, etc).

	I also have to make do.. the last 2 months have had less
development time for Shadow related things, due to pure factors of life;
Handango screwed PalmGear for a year or so, which put them months behind
paying out the developers. When I go a few months without 2/3rds of my
Shadow income coming in, I have to do a lot of contract work to make sure
life goes on :) I don't discuss such matters of course, but its a fact of
Palm OS developer life.. the various portals we have (Pdassi, PalmGear,
Handango, and a half dozen others) are all extremely unreliable :/ (to the
developer, not to the customer), which makes it sometimes difficult to
keep up. I do very well (as you can see by the support I provide and
number of upates over the last year or two).. but I run a tight ship.
(Witness the price of the products I sell. I coudl easily charge more..
the software is worth it, and beats out more expensive less functional
applications. But I'm not interested in being greedy, either).

> But like I said, there are too many variables that occur which I know
> you don't have control over so I am trying to be patient and
> understanding because of your excellent track record.  You deserve
> credit for not shying away from the desktop question as I did when I
> was on the interactive floor.  But I am just wondering if it might be
> better if you realize that action on the desktop is going to be
> delayed to let people know that.  Of course, with everything you have
> going on, that might not be a feasible suggestion.

	The desktop is top of the list and I expect to spend a few months
working very solidly on it. However, again, many of those changes will be
behind the scenes. The conduit needs some work.. ie: to support Mac OS for
one, and due to a large number of annoyances and bugs in various revisions
of Hotsync Manager, I need to do a number of workarounds to repair various
bugs. I need to build some keen extensions to make drag and drop on the
desktop work (for moving items around, during hotsync), and do lots of
general work. So much work will be done on the conduit, so that things in
the desktop can come in a bit. I'm not sure of the exact order of
operations, but I expect to get item drag and drop on the desktop working
pretty early on (much conduit work, plus some GUI work on the desktops),
and I need to get the Mac and Unix alphas out the door. (ie: I'm not going
to ignore the Mac crowd because they're a smaller crowd. I'll get their
version out, but its a lot of work to do so :/) 

	Desktop clipboard stuff will go in once the conduit can handle
moving items around better. A number of fixes need to be pt in place (to
better handle the item duplication issue). 

	Lots to do :) 

	Ahh yes, improving the print engine to have options, add some
import support (so as you don't have to mess around with XML to do it),
and improved display so you can have something vaguely resembling Shadow
itself (ie: A list view that shows checkboxes near the title text, etc.

	Mostly, however.. due to my needing and taking a short vacation
and such, and due to having a bunch of contracts to work on, I would only
have a few hours a day to develope (remember, I get 200+ emails per day,
and I answer each and every one. So that takes much time ;) So gibven a
few hours, I work on thinsg which can be completed int hat time,
often. The desktop is a concerted effort of months to get it where it
needs to be, so I scheduled it where it coudl get due process and time.

	Suffice to say I schedule development in all our best interests. I
don't need to explain my reasoning, but trust me when it goes one way or
another, that it has to be that way, for the betterment of all involved :)

> In all fairness, the issue of producing a desktop version of palm
> software is not limited to you.  I am still waiting for the desktop
> version of Life Balance although the developers are like you and are
> doing the best they can but have limited resources.

	Remember, a tight economy and recession, like we've had for the
last while, hits "luxury" items first and hard ;)

> Again, many kudos to you for what you have done with ShadowPlan.  I
> have no doubt that when the desktop does get the features that we all
> are clamoring for that we will be very happy and glad that we were
> patient.

	Remember my rules; I release early and as often as I can. If you
waited for a "finished" desktop, it'd be ages. Instead, I release it
useful and early, so that a %age of it users get what they want, and a
large %age of peopel get half of what they want. But everyone gets it
cheap, and that initial funding gets me through to keep updating it. I'm
charging what amounts to about $8US for a applicationt hat works on
Windows or Mac or Unix. Thats pretty tight budget ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: nscroggins  <sjpanther01@h...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 8:17pm
Subject: Problem:Shadow links

Have I missed this...If I jump to a link and use the 'Home' to return 
to Shadow.  I am return to the top of the list.  Why can't I return 
to the actual item?  The same thing happens if I jump via MegaWiki.  
I have version 2.2.1 of Shadow.

Norm

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 8:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Improvements???

> > software is not limited to you.  I am still waiting for the desktop
> > version of Life Balance although the developers are like you and are
> > doing the best they can but have limited resources.

It's allready here !!! Ahh, you mean the Windows version 8-) (it's so
fun to be on the platform that gets the desktop version first, for a
change, that I couldn't resist)

(And no, Jeff, I'm not complaining ... I was thinking on other software.
And yes, I'm personally explaining these problems ... since I'm also
going cross-platform with an application that I'm developing)

                                jem
-- 
Jan Erik Moström   jem@m...    www.mostrom.pp.se

From: Michael Pizolato  <piz@i...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 9:34pm
Subject: Auto-Caps

I've noticed what appears to be an interface inconsistency:
if I create a new item by simply starting to graffiti, the
mini-editor automatically capitalizes the entry. If I create
a new item via one of the buttons on the bar, the
mini-editor does *not* capitalize the entry.

I'd like to see a preference for this - sometimes I want
auto-caps, sometimes I don't.

Thanks,
Michael Pizolato

From: veb8  <veb8899@f...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 1:07am
Subject: Re: Desktop Improvements???

> 
> >It's allready here !!! Ahh, you mean the Windows version 8-) (it's 
so
> fun to be on the platform that gets the desktop version first, for a
> change, that I couldn't resist)
> 
Jem,

I am jealous as heck:))  But I have no room to complain because as 
you say, the Mac Folks usually get the short end of the stick.

Vivian

From: veb8  <veb8899@f...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 1:23am
Subject: Re: Desktop Improvements???

Jeff,

I am sorry if my post came across as critical because I tried very 
hard not to be and to try and see things from your perspective.  By 
the way, I would feel the way as you did at the museum when it seemed 
that visitors just didn't understand everything that went into a 
particular situation and in spite of working my tail off to the point 
of burnout, it never seemed to be enough. But I had to understand 
that there was no way they could comprehend certain issues not being 
in the business just like we don't know what is going on when the 
desktop isn't moving as fast as we would like.

Anyway, I appreciate your explanations.

Vivian

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 6:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Improvements???

2002-06-01 22:20: Jan Erik Moström <lists@m...> is believed to
have typed:

> explaining

Sigh... experiencing (never write in a foreign language when tired)

                            jem
-- 
Jan Erik Moström   jem@m...    www.mostrom.pp.se

From: list1232002  <list1232002@y...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 6:02pm
Subject: need help uninstalling

Hello,
I am a former user of franklin covey software for palm 505 and 
franklin planner for my computer.
Can anyone tell me how to uninstall this product and still keep my 
Hot Sync name ect. I am running several 3rd party applications that  
are registered under this hot sync name.

Is it possable to delete all franklin covey programs and use the palm 
desk top instead using the hot sync program that come with this 
program? 

Does anyone have a suggestion on a differant program if not the palm 
dest top for my computer

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 8:08pm
Subject: Re: Problem:Shadow links

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, nscroggins wrote:

> Have I missed this...If I jump to a link and use the 'Home' to return 
> to Shadow.  I am return to the top of the list.  Why can't I return 
> to the actual item?  The same thing happens if I jump via MegaWiki.  
> I have version 2.2.1 of Shadow.

	It actually does return the right place, but scrolls up or down a
bit too far. This is a bug and will be fixed. (ie: Since the screen has no
yet been rendered, it tries to approximate where it "should" end up, and
can be wrong in many cases when coming in from other applications. I'll be
fixing that)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 8:12pm
Subject: Re: Auto-Caps

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Michael Pizolato wrote:

> I've noticed what appears to be an interface inconsistency:
> if I create a new item by simply starting to graffiti, the
> mini-editor automatically capitalizes the entry. If I create
> a new item via one of the buttons on the bar, the
> mini-editor does *not* capitalize the entry.

	If you're experiencing that, than its either a bug in the OS or in
some Hack you're using. I've also tested this on several units withotu a
problem. What unit and OS version do you have, and which Hacks are
enabled? (ie: It shoudl auto-cap in all cases, and has in all my testing
of that effect)

> I'd like to see a preference for this - sometimes I want auto-caps,
> sometimes I don't.

	On a list by list basis? I'm betting not too many people would
want to play with such a pref, and the auto-cap field is pretty Palm OS
standard and recommended.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 8:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Improvements???

On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, veb8 wrote:

> I am sorry if my post came across as critical because I tried very 
> hard not to be and to try and see things from your perspective.  By 

	S'alright; I get those series of questions a lot, and often by
less-caring people ;) So I thought I'd let out some explanation for once.
I work in terms of the best interests of everyone (including myself), and
I keep rigorous notes on the number of requests I get for each item and
such. So I know very much what people are looking for, and I also know how
long it'll take for each thing.. so I juggle as best I can. But it does
get me into a lot of trouble, as in our societies everyone is getting more
used to "now now now", without realizing theres a human on the other end
:)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: George Wyner  <gwyner@b...>
Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 9:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Improvements???

My two cents:

Even in its current limited form, the desktop is very useful... I find I 
can use it for capturing new stuff and then I can use the palm version to 
manipulate the items.  personally I view my investment in Shadow as a long 
term investment and am happy to have an early copy of the desktop.  I am 
looking forward to future enhancements and think its great that Jeff has 
created an app that has so much potential that we are debating over all the 
neat things he can add to it next.

cheers...

George

At 04:14 PM 6/2/02 -0400, you wrote:
>On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, veb8 wrote:
>
> > I am sorry if my post came across as critical because I tried very
> > hard not to be and to try and see things from your perspective.  By
>
>       S'alright; I get those series of questions a lot, and often by
>less-caring people ;) So I thought I'd let out some explanation for once.
>I work in terms of the best interests of everyone (including myself), and
>I keep rigorous notes on the number of requests I get for each item and
>such. So I know very much what people are looking for, and I also know how
>long it'll take for each thing.. so I juggle as best I can. But it does
>get me into a lot of trouble, as in our societies everyone is getting more
>used to "now now now", without realizing theres a human on the other end
>:)
>
>             jeff
>
>--
>"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
>circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
>sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
>-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
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----------
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| <mailto:gwyner@b...>gwyner@b... | 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 2:38am
Subject: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

I've tried to configure SP with MW but have not been too sucessfull, 
it won't link, I saw a couple prev. post and I've copied the 
following what am I doing wrong:

ID: Coog
Linki: Shdw 
Tag: <                     
Category: blank         
taps: 1
Dbprefix: blank
buttom taps: 0

Ok, this one is ok, I just removed the right tag and it worked, 
guess you can't have two tags, aight

the other one:
Id: Coog
Tag: (
Linki: Shdd
Taps:1
Category: blank
DBprefix: ShaP-
Taps: 0

this one tells me Item not found: ShaP-
ie, Do bills & update B of Am.

what's wrong with this one, 

thanks to anybody in advance.

Also is it possible to download some templates of any sort ?

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 3:30am
Subject: Re: Re: Desktop Improvements???

i'm with ya on this one jeff, as i too use the desktop for a few things...especially printing, which i forgot in earlier discussions.  think what it would be like now with only the handheld and no desktop at all....  i'm willing to wait for a great end product too, but like what it can do for me now.  remember all, jeff could have just kept this to himself until he had time to update it like we all desire!  
kevin----- Original Message ----- 
  From: George Wyner 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:31 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Desktop Improvements???


  My two cents:

  Even in its current limited form, the desktop is very useful... I find I 
  can use it for capturing new stuff and then I can use the palm version to 
  manipulate the items.  personally I view my investment in Shadow as a long 
  term investment and am happy to have an early copy of the desktop.  I am 
  looking forward to future enhancements and think its great that Jeff has 
  created an app that has so much potential that we are debating over all the 
  neat things he can add to it next.

  cheers...

  George




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Yaakov Shlafman  <shlaf@y...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 5:59am
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

--- jledesma28 <jledesma28@y...> wrote:
> I've tried to configure SP with MW but have not been too sucessfull, 
> it won't link, I saw a couple prev. post and I've copied the 
> following what am I doing wrong:
> 
> ID: Coog
> Linki: Shdw 
> Tag: <                     
> Category: blank         
> taps: 1
> Dbprefix: blank
> buttom taps: 0
> 
> Ok, this one is ok, I just removed the right tag and it worked, 
> guess you can't have two tags, aight
> 
> the other one:
> Id: Coog
> Tag: (
> Linki: Shdd
> Taps:1
> Category: blank
> DBprefix: ShaP-
> Taps: 0
> 
> this one tells me Item not found: ShaP-
> ie, Do bills & update B of Am.
> 
> what's wrong with this one, 
> 

1) the prefix should be ShadP- 
2) make sure that Type: DB Name is selected

works for me.

Yaakov.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 6:24pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

There is a new hack in the works that will link from the todo origin note 
right to the item in shadow.  It's only 2k and works well.  Not sure if this 
is what you are trying to setup though.  I have MW setup as well and use it 
for Piki etc.  But the easiest way to link to shadow from the todo note is 
this new hack.  It will be available when the next shadow alpha for the 
handheld is released.

>From: Yaakov Shlafman <shlaf@y...>
>Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....
>Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:59:55 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>--- jledesma28 <jledesma28@y...> wrote:
> > I've tried to configure SP with MW but have not been too sucessfull,
> > it won't link, I saw a couple prev. post and I've copied the
> > following what am I doing wrong:
> >
> > ID: Coog
> > Linki: Shdw
> > Tag: <
> > Category: blank
> > taps: 1
> > Dbprefix: blank
> > buttom taps: 0
> >
> > Ok, this one is ok, I just removed the right tag and it worked,
> > guess you can't have two tags, aight
> >
> > the other one:
> > Id: Coog
> > Tag: (
> > Linki: Shdd
> > Taps:1
> > Category: blank
> > DBprefix: ShaP-
> > Taps: 0
> >
> > this one tells me Item not found: ShaP-
> > ie, Do bills & update B of Am.
> >
> > what's wrong with this one,
> >
>
>1) the prefix should be ShadP-
>2) make sure that Type: DB Name is selected
>
>works for me.
>
>Yaakov.
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 6:35pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

Actually the hack is available now, and will take you from the ToDo to the
correct Shadow list, we just have to wait for it to take us to the exact
item. You can get it here:
http://www.geocities.com/rnlnero/shadlink10a2.zip

There are a couple of people I think that have gotten both Piki and the
link text to work, but I am not one of them. I now use this hack to jump to
the desired list, and Piki to bring up a complete list of Shadow files to
which to jump. This is great!

Scott


                                                                                                                     
                    "Anthony                                                                                         
                    Schellenberg"          To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    <aschell2000@h...        cc:                                                                       
                    tmail.com>             Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....     
                                                                                                                     
                    06/03/2002                                                                                       
                    01:24 PM                                                                                         
                    Please respond                                                                                   
                    to                                                                                               
                    shadow-discuss                                                                                   
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     




There is a new hack in the works that will link from the todo origin note
right to the item in shadow.  It's only 2k and works well.  Not sure if
this
is what you are trying to setup though.  I have MW setup as well and use it

for Piki etc.  But the easiest way to link to shadow from the todo note is
this new hack.  It will be available when the next shadow alpha for the
handheld is released.

>From: Yaakov Shlafman <shlaf@y...>
>Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....
>Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:59:55 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>--- jledesma28 <jledesma28@y...> wrote:
> > I've tried to configure SP with MW but have not been too sucessfull,
> > it won't link, I saw a couple prev. post and I've copied the
> > following what am I doing wrong:
> >
> > ID: Coog
> > Linki: Shdw
> > Tag: <
> > Category: blank
> > taps: 1
> > Dbprefix: blank
> > buttom taps: 0
> >
> > Ok, this one is ok, I just removed the right tag and it worked,
> > guess you can't have two tags, aight
> >
> > the other one:
> > Id: Coog
> > Tag: (
> > Linki: Shdd
> > Taps:1
> > Category: blank
> > DBprefix: ShaP-
> > Taps: 0
> >
> > this one tells me Item not found: ShaP-
> > ie, Do bills & update B of Am.
> >
> > what's wrong with this one,
> >
>
>1) the prefix should be ShadP-
>2) make sure that Type: DB Name is selected
>
>works for me.
>
>Yaakov.
>
>
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From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 7:15pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

I see the alpha has leaked to shadow-discuss...you're welcome to download
it.  I'm fairly comfortable with the code but be aware it's still alpha so
if you find problems be sure to let me know so I can fix. (don't diagram the
sentence...) The hack will likely go final when the next ShadowPlan gets
released because its real strength only shows with the next version of
Shadow.

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: <smasters@a...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....


>
> Actually the hack is available now, and will take you from the ToDo to the
> correct Shadow list, we just have to wait for it to take us to the exact
> item. You can get it here:
> http://www.geocities.com/rnlnero/shadlink10a2.zip
>
> There are a couple of people I think that have gotten both Piki and the
> link text to work, but I am not one of them. I now use this hack to jump
to
> the desired list, and Piki to bring up a complete list of Shadow files to
> which to jump. This is great!
>
> Scott

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 7:23pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

Oops, sorry Russ I got my email lists mixed up. I didn't mean for anything
to get out prematurely. I'll have to watch more cearefully which group I'm
replying to. Thanks for your hack though. I've been using it alot today and
it works quite well. I haven't been able to break it.

But for others, the ShadowLink Hack that I mistakenly made reference to in
the list is still ALPHA code to be used at your own risk. Mea culpas.

Scott

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 7:44pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

Hey, how come my husband Russ always gets the credit even when I sign the
post :)

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: <smasters@a...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....


>
> Oops, sorry Russ I got my email lists mixed up. I didn't mean for anything
> to get out prematurely. I'll have to watch more cearefully which group I'm
> replying to. Thanks for your hack though. I've been using it alot today
and
> it works quite well. I haven't been able to break it.
>
> But for others, the ShadowLink Hack that I mistakenly made reference to in
> the list is still ALPHA code to be used at your own risk. Mea culpas.
>
> Scott
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 7:47pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Russ & Ling wrote:

> I see the alpha has leaked to shadow-discuss...you're welcome to
> download it.  I'm fairly comfortable with the code but be aware it's
> still alpha so if you find problems be sure to let me know so I can
> fix. (don't diagram the sentence...) The hack will likely go final
> when the next ShadowPlan gets released because its real strength only
> shows with the next version of Shadow.

	An old question pops out, then. Is this reverse-linking concept
good for datebook items as well? Theres nothing stopping me from adding
the origin info into datebook notes as well, and I'm sure Ling wouldnt'
mind making his hack work there, too. (Who knows, maybe it already works
that way..)

	Ling: Should I include this in the Shadow distribution, in a
"contrib" directory?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 7:51pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

Boy, this has not been a good day for me. Sorry Ling, I realized after I
sent this that you were the author, not your husband. I'm sure my wife
would tell you it works the same in our relationship too though : ).

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    "Russ & Ling"                                                                                  
                    <rnlnero@y...        To:     <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>                                  
                    o.com>               cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....     
                    06/03/2002                                                                                     
                    02:44 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




Hey, how come my husband Russ always gets the credit even when I sign the
post :)

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: <smasters@a...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....


>
> Oops, sorry Russ I got my email lists mixed up. I didn't mean for
anything
> to get out prematurely. I'll have to watch more cearefully which group
I'm
> replying to. Thanks for your hack though. I've been using it alot today
and
> it works quite well. I haven't been able to break it.
>
> But for others, the ShadowLink Hack that I mistakenly made reference to
in
> the list is still ALPHA code to be used at your own risk. Mea culpas.
>
> Scott
>





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From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 8:00pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

Jeff wrote:

           An old question pops out, then. Is this reverse-linking concept
good for datebook items as well? Theres nothing stopping me from adding
the origin info into datebook notes as well, and I'm sure Ling wouldnt'
mind making his hack work there, too. (Who knows, maybe it already works
that way..)

           Ling: Should I include this in the Shadow distribution, in a
"contrib" directory?

                     jeff


I just created a datebook link, then pasted the link text into the datebook
note. Guess what, ShadowLink worked flawlessly. So Ling has already made
HER (since I screwed up twice I thought I'd try to gain some points back)
hack work there too. Now all that needs to be done is for Jeff to add the
origin text to  the datebook  records. Hope I'm not confusing the issue   :
o

Scott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 8:15pm
Subject: User Guide?

Anyone have gripes with the manuals? (resounding applause is heard
throughout the building ;)

	The Reference Guides are pretty good; the Quick Start Guide is
"okay", I think. I know I need a "User Guide", which walks you through
basic things that most Shadow people do every day.

	I can write one, but I need to know.. what things did you have
trouble with when you got started? What things do you have trouble with
now, that you want better explained?

	If I can get a good topic list going, I'll write something.

	Anyone want to donate some keen Shadow or Codejedi logos? :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tarasofsky  <Tarasofsky@t...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 8:16pm
Subject: a few points, and some encouragement

First the encouragement.   I too am a small businessman who depends 
on the vagaries of the payment schedules of a few large clients.  
Unfortunately, I have a pretty good idea of how much it sucks to be 
paid months late and hope that the Handango/Pamgear thing sorts 
itself out very soon.  I just wanted to tell you not only that Shadow 
is an excellent program, but it has become an indispensable part of 
my (increasingly more organised) life.  Double thanks to you, and 
more, for all your hard work, even in difficult circumstances.

Now the specific comments:

1. I have just noticed that the "+1 week" option in the target date 
column advances by one week from the original target date, rather 
than the current date.  I would have thought that advancing from the 
current date would be a lot more useful, especially since one week 
from the target date could still be in the past.

2. I recently deleted a couple of To Do categories, but still saw 
them appear in the list of categories in the Link Manager.  Is there 
not a way to make this sync automatically?

3. The filters are really important to me, but would be better if 
they could more specifically focus on the items meeting the filtering 
criteria.  Right now, the parents of children meeting the criteria 
are also included (i.e. even when they themselves do not meet the 
criteria).  A related question is whether it is at all possible to 
have filters also include their own custom views (probably too messy, 
right?).

Looking forward to all the next improvements in your own good time,

Richard

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 8:17pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002 smasters@a... wrote:

>            Ling: Should I include this in the Shadow distribution, in a
> "contrib" directory?
> 
>                      jeff
> 
> 
> I just created a datebook link, then pasted the link text into the datebook
> note. Guess what, ShadowLink worked flawlessly. So Ling has already made
> HER (since I screwed up twice I thought I'd try to gain some points back)
> hack work there too. Now all that needs to be done is for Jeff to add the
> origin text to  the datebook  records. Hope I'm not confusing the issue   :
> o

	heh. I kind of figured her hack would work.. ie: It just looks for
the [[[Shadow text in the field and goes from there. You could probably
stick the text in a Memo, or in Addressbook, or in any darned field you
want, and have it work. Ling did a great job.

	So if people want it in the datebook, I'm pretty sure I can
accomodate.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 8:55pm
Subject: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, tarasofsky wrote:

> First the encouragement.   I too am a small businessman who depends 

	Thanks for the kind words; I do not wish to occupy peoples space
with business life, but if anyone wants to discuss things, they know my
email address :)

> 1. I have just noticed that the "+1 week" option in the target date
> column advances by one week from the original target date, rather than
> the current date.  I would have thought that advancing from the
> current date would be a lot more useful, especially since one week
> from the target date could still be in the past.

	+1 is "add week", so you can hit it repeatedly to step a week
along. You can do two steps if you want.. "Today", then "+1 week" to get
next a week later. But you can then do "+1 week" twice more to get 3 weeks
away. Its there for flexibility. I'd like to add more options one of these
days, too.

> 2. I recently deleted a couple of To Do categories, but still saw them
> appear in the list of categories in the Link Manager.  Is there not a
> way to make this sync automatically?

	The Link Manager, when you try and set the ToDo object category,
looks in the ToDo database for the categories. If they're showing up in
LM, they're still in ToDo. Did you delete them from another program, but
not actually ToDo? (ie: Shadow doesn't make up the categories.. it gets
them from the ToDo program :)

> 3. The filters are really important to me, but would be better if they
> could more specifically focus on the items meeting the filtering
> criteria.  Right now, the parents of children meeting the criteria are
> also included (i.e. even when they themselves do not meet the
> criteria).  A related question is whether it is at all possible to
> have filters also include their own custom views (probably too messy,
> right?).

	The parents being included is necessary to provide context to the
children; ie: If you apply a "checked only" filter, and you see
"3. Purchase equipment", that has no meaning, unless you also know that
the parent is "Project: Automobile" or whatever.

	Filters include custom views? What do you mean.

	Custom filters (as in fitlers you define yourself) will be in the
next update :)

> Looking forward to all the next improvements in your own good time,

	Pretty soon, likely :)

	Fight the good fight,

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 8:58pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

Yup, that's pretty much how it works.  The only place you might be able to
paste the token string in and not have it work is in a table field.  You can
even stick it in as a Shadow list item, open Detail and Shadow Jump.  It's
the round about way to link Shadow item to item across lists (until Jeff
actually implements said feature).  It doesn't even need the entire origin
stamp, just the token up to and including the list name (e.g. '[[[Shadow:
(xxxx) List Name]]]').  As long as the uniqueID is there, you can move the
item around in the list, or even change the text, and ShadowLink will jump
to it every time.

Jeff, if you want to include it in your distribution, that's fine by me.
Entirely up to you.

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....


> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002 smasters@a... wrote:
>
> >            Ling: Should I include this in the Shadow distribution, in a
> > "contrib" directory?
> >
> >                      jeff
> >
> >
> > I just created a datebook link, then pasted the link text into the
datebook
> > note. Guess what, ShadowLink worked flawlessly. So Ling has already made
> > HER (since I screwed up twice I thought I'd try to gain some points
back)
> > hack work there too. Now all that needs to be done is for Jeff to add
the
> > origin text to  the datebook  records. Hope I'm not confusing the issue
:
> > o
>
> heh. I kind of figured her hack would work.. ie: It just looks for
> the [[[Shadow text in the field and goes from there. You could probably
> stick the text in a Memo, or in Addressbook, or in any darned field you
> want, and have it work. Ling did a great job.
>
> So if people want it in the datebook, I'm pretty sure I can
> accomodate.
>
> jeff

From: tarasofsky  <Tarasofsky@t...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 9:56pm
Subject: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	+1 is "add week", so you can hit it repeatedly to step a week
> along. You can do two steps if you want.. "Today", then "+1 week" 
to get
> next a week later. But you can then do "+1 week" twice more to get 
3 weeks
> away. Its there for flexibility. I'd like to add more options one 
of these
> days, too.

Thanks.  I get it, but would still have thought that the starting 
date should be today's date, since why would anyone ever want to 
schedule a target in the past?

> 
> 	The Link Manager, when you try and set the ToDo object 
category,
> looks in the ToDo database for the categories. If they're showing 
up in
> LM, they're still in ToDo. 

Oops, you are absolutely right.  It was actually the appointment 
category I deleted.  Sorry, its getting very late in this part of the 
world.
 
> 
> 	The parents being included is necessary to provide context to 
the
> children; ie: If you apply a "checked only" filter, and you see
> "3. Purchase equipment", that has no meaning, unless you also know 
that
> the parent is "Project: Automobile" or whatever.

Hmmm, I see your point, but am not sure it is always necessary.  
Possibly an option in the Prefs??

> 
> 	Filters include custom views? What do you mean.
> 
> 	Custom filters (as in fitlers you define yourself) will be in 
the
> next update :)


Great, that is indeed what I meant by fileters with custom views.

> 
> > Looking forward to all the next improvements in your own good 
time,
> 
> 	Pretty soon, likely :)
> 

Whoo whoo, you made my evening!

Richard

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 10:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, tarasofsky wrote:

> > 	+1 is "add week", so you can hit it repeatedly to step a week
> > along. You can do two steps if you want.. "Today", then "+1 week" 
> to get
> > next a week later. But you can then do "+1 week" twice more to get 
> 3 weeks
> > away. Its there for flexibility. I'd like to add more options one 
> of these
> > days, too.
> 
> Thanks.  I get it, but would still have thought that the starting 
> date should be today's date, since why would anyone ever want to 
> schedule a target in the past?

	When you hit +1, it adds a week to whatever is there now. If
nothing is there now, it starts at today and adds one week. If you set it
in the past, and then come back and want to add time to it.. how is the
software to know if you mean to add a week to what you set before, or to
now? Since it cannot read minds, it does the logical thing of doing what
its good at.. adding one week. If you've entered it in the past, its up to
you to refresh it :)

> Oops, you are absolutely right.  It was actually the appointment
> category I deleted.  Sorry, its getting very late in this part of the
> world.

	I hear ya. We're all victoms to staying up too late :)

> Hmmm, I see your point, but am not sure it is always necessary.  
> Possibly an option in the Prefs??

	I'll hold on that one; if a bunch of people want it, maybe. But
its a fair amount of work, and would confuse a lot of people, and I'm
trying to avoid adding too many prefs nowadays, unless they're genuinely
useful to a lot of people. (Not guessing if it is, but knowing so). I
already got a lot of people emailing me that the software is too complex
and has too many options :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Pat Galea  <pg@d...>
Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 10:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

> Thanks.  I get it, but would still have thought that the starting
> date should be today's date, since why would anyone ever want to
> schedule a target in the past?

It can happen.

Say you've got a whole load of stuff that you have to do *on average* once a
week. e.g. a revision timetable, where you know that you have to get through
a batch of stuff by the time the exam comes up; you know you have to do it
once a week from the start 'til the exam, but it doesn't matter *exactly*
when you do it, as long as it is done on average once a week.

You've got lots of entries for your revision: math, english, chemistry etc.
You sort the list by target date, oldest at the top, so you always tackle
the thing that you've neglected the most. Whenever you complete a study
session, you advance the target date by one week.

Now, you may fall behind a little in one subject for a few weeks. Maybe you
were waiting for a particular book to become available in the library. So
that study item has stayed at the top of the list for quite a while without
being advanced. When you can restart studying that subject, you don't want
to pretend that you've really been studying that one as hard as all the ones
you *have* been studying. So when you advance the target time by one week,
it will *still* be in the past, and still at the top of the list. This
reminds you that you're still behind, so this item will remain a priority
for a while.

In short, scheduling a target date in the past is probably only useful if
you're sorting by target date. I've sometimes used this in the normal ToDo
list to bump an item that's already at priority 1 to the top of the list
(i.e. higher than all the other priority 1 items).

Regards, Pat Galea

From: madmaxmedia  <madmaxmedia@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 0:38am
Subject: Hotsync funkiness?

Hi all,

I've just started using this great program, and recently ran into 
some problems syncing:

1. A couple times Hotsync hanged, and I had to soft reset the Palm 
(Clie 760). No data seemed to be lost though. I believe this was 
after some basic editing on the PDA side.

2. A couple of instances where changes to the desktop file did not 
totally sync onto the Palm. Mainly missing items that were restored 
by re-syncing.

3. Corrupted desktop file that no longer read. I believe I caused 
this myself by copy-and-pasting text from IE that contained special 
characters.

So far no real data loss, but it worries me a bit. I know the info 
above is not enough to troubleshoot, but I was wondering if this has 
happened to anyone else, or if there are any known issues that I 
should be aware of.

Thanks,
Steve

From: vjornes  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 0:38am
Subject: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
<snip>

> > Thanks.  I get it, but would still have thought that the starting 
> > date should be today's date, since why would anyone ever want to 
> > schedule a target in the past?

I agree.  Intuitivly, you'd want to slip a target date relative to 
today.


> 	When you hit +1, it adds a week to whatever is there now. If
> nothing is there now, it starts at today and adds one week. If you 
set it
> in the past, and then come back and want to add time to it.. how is 
the
> software to know if you mean to add a week to what you set before, 
or to
> now?   <snip>


I don't think you'd set a target date to be in the past, but in the 
unlikely event that things ever become overdue <g>, it would be 
logical to use the current date.  Having said that, I can see that if 
you are less than 7 days overdue you may just want to slip by exactly 
one week relative to the original target day.
Putting a conditional slip (if the target date is more than 7 days 
slip relative to today, else relative to original target) would be 
functional but could just cause confusion.
My personal preferance would be to slip relative to today.  Failing 
that, a big note in the manual.

Just my preferance.

Vic.

From: madmaxmedia  <madmaxmedia@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 0:51am
Subject: Re: Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?

Ah, I think I see. Adding the desktop ability to move items around 
probably is easy to to, but the trick is in getting the hotsyncing 
to work reliably?

(since it appears that the hotsync conduit looks for changes on both 
desktop and PDA, rather than just taking the most recently modified 
file and overwriting the other.) I can imagine that would be a bear 
to manage.

I also use the desktop for data entry and cutting-and-pasting from 
the web.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 May 2002, casonbang wrote:
> 
> > I was just wondering how much use anyone gets out of the 
desktop?  If
> > you use it a lot, what do you primarily do with it?
> 
> 	A lot of people do, judging by the volume of email I get 
about it
> :) Theres a lot of different people.. some who just print, some 
who just
> data enter, some who want to bring things into Word (via save-as-
html),
> etc. But as you say, its not really useful as an outliner.. since 
it can't
> move things, yet.
> 
> > I find the desktop pretty unusable in its current state since you
> > can't move items around by drag & drop or by cutting and 
pasting.  I
> > do a lot of resorting, since I find it easier to get it down 
first and
> > then decide where an item best fits in the hierarchy.  If I make 
an
> > item in the wrong spot right now I have to delete it and start 
over.  
> > Or sync to the handheld and drag & drop there.  Is moving items 
on the
> > desktop side already built into the conduit but just needs a 
desktop
> > interface for it?  If so then I beg, beg, beg you to add at the 
very
> > least cutting & pasting.  According to the quick reference moving
> > items is "coming very soon!"  :)
> 
> 	The conduit knows a little about it, but is easily confused, 
so it
> is not enabled. Consider.. moving items around between parents, 
then
> moving parents around, then moving those items aorund a few more 
times,
> both on the handheld and desktop. The conduti just can't make 
sense what
> you intend, since you can totally mess up things on both sides. 
Big pain
> in the butt :)
> 
> 	When I get to the desktops in awhile (a few weeks or month?) 
I'll
> be redoing some of the conduit to add lots of features and make it 
more
> robust, and adding piles of stuff to the desktop. Drag and drop and
> clipboard operations are near the top of the list for the desktop 
and
> conduit :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: vjornes  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:09am
Subject: %complete from progress bar - request

Jeff,
I would be nice to be able to display the %complete number on a parent 
task by tapping on the progress bar instead of having to open the 
details screen.  (couldn't see it on your todo list).

Just a nice to have when you have time... (I can just hear it, "time, 
what's that?")

Vic.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:10am
Subject: Re: Hotsync funkiness?

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, madmaxmedia wrote:

> I've just started using this great program, and recently ran into some
> problems syncing:
> 
> 1. A couple times Hotsync hanged, and I had to soft reset the Palm
> (Clie 760). No data seemed to be lost though. I believe this was after
> some basic editing on the PDA side.

	Fairly rare, but there are a few annoying bugs in the conduit; I
will be revisiting the conduit and desktops soon and repairing these
issues :/ Fortunately, they are all eassily dealt with, and generally
happen pretty rarely.

	If the conduit hangs, it is best to do a file find for
lastsync.txt; in the same location are your desktop XML files; move them
somewhere else for safe keeping. Then a fresh sync and all is well.

> 2. A couple of instances where changes to the desktop file did not
> totally sync onto the Palm. Mainly missing items that were restored by
> re-syncing.

	How so?

> 3. Corrupted desktop file that no longer read. I believe I caused this
> myself by copy-and-pasting text from IE that contained special
> characters.

	You got an error about international characters? IE can embed all
sorts of nastiness that can sometimes confuse the desktop. If you wish to
send me the XML file, I can see whats going on. Make sure you're using the
2.2 distribution, as its desktop is much better than the original desktop
(which was not international or special character aware). People
copy/paste from IE all day long, so I think thats all cool, but there
could be an issue perhaps if IE gets too crazy. Anyone else have any
oddities here?

> So far no real data loss, but it worries me a bit. I know the info
> above is not enough to troubleshoot, but I was wondering if this has
> happened to anyone else, or if there are any known issues that I
> should be aware of.

	The known issues are 2 main ones: On rare occasions the conduit
can "hang", and other times crash. Annoying. If it occurs, do the
lastsync.txt step above and you're good as new.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:12am
Subject: Re: Re: Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, madmaxmedia wrote:

> Ah, I think I see. Adding the desktop ability to move items around 
> probably is easy to to, but the trick is in getting the hotsyncing 
> to work reliably?

	Right. Consider.. on the desktop and handheld, you have parent A,
with child B. On the desktop, you move B to be a child of C, and on the
handheld you move B to be the child of D. What should the sync resolve it
to? (and this is the simplest case. Consider if these also have children
you've jumbled around and/or deleted, etc). Its quite a complex problem :)

> (since it appears that the hotsync conduit looks for changes on both
> desktop and PDA, rather than just taking the most recently modified
> file and overwriting the other.) I can imagine that would be a bear to
> manage.

	Yep. Copying one from the other is easy, but is also lossy.

> I also use the desktop for data entry and cutting-and-pasting from the
> web.

	I may introduce settings for simple cases like this; the "desktop
overwrites handheld" and vice versa, to make it a simple copy :)

		jeff

> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 31 May 2002, casonbang wrote:
> > 
> > > I was just wondering how much use anyone gets out of the 
> desktop?  If
> > > you use it a lot, what do you primarily do with it?
> > 
> > 	A lot of people do, judging by the volume of email I get 
> about it
> > :) Theres a lot of different people.. some who just print, some 
> who just
> > data enter, some who want to bring things into Word (via save-as-
> html),
> > etc. But as you say, its not really useful as an outliner.. since 
> it can't
> > move things, yet.
> > 
> > > I find the desktop pretty unusable in its current state since you
> > > can't move items around by drag & drop or by cutting and 
> pasting.  I
> > > do a lot of resorting, since I find it easier to get it down 
> first and
> > > then decide where an item best fits in the hierarchy.  If I make 
> an
> > > item in the wrong spot right now I have to delete it and start 
> over.  
> > > Or sync to the handheld and drag & drop there.  Is moving items 
> on the
> > > desktop side already built into the conduit but just needs a 
> desktop
> > > interface for it?  If so then I beg, beg, beg you to add at the 
> very
> > > least cutting & pasting.  According to the quick reference moving
> > > items is "coming very soon!"  :)
> > 
> > 	The conduit knows a little about it, but is easily confused, 
> so it
> > is not enabled. Consider.. moving items around between parents, 
> then
> > moving parents around, then moving those items aorund a few more 
> times,
> > both on the handheld and desktop. The conduti just can't make 
> sense what
> > you intend, since you can totally mess up things on both sides. 
> Big pain
> > in the butt :)
> > 
> > 	When I get to the desktops in awhile (a few weeks or month?) 
> I'll
> > be redoing some of the conduit to add lots of features and make it 
> more
> > robust, and adding piles of stuff to the desktop. Drag and drop and
> > clipboard operations are near the top of the list for the desktop 
> and
> > conduit :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:14am
Subject: Re: %complete from progress bar - request

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, vjornes wrote:

> I would be nice to be able to display the %complete number on a parent 
> task by tapping on the progress bar instead of having to open the 
> details screen.  (couldn't see it on your todo list).

	I thought about it, but that would be inconsistent UI .. which I
tend to try and avoid. I think I used to have it do that, but got beet up
about it?

> Just a nice to have when you have time... (I can just hear it, "time,
> what's that?")

	heh. You know the todos on the website? Thats about 1/5th my
master list :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:27am
Subject: Filters

I just thought of another filter today which would be very 
hand...filter on anything that does not have a target date. I put a 
lot of things in that I don't necessarily take time to schedule when 
I enter. It would be nice to see what I haven't planned for yet.

Gary

-- 
220, 221 ... whatever it takes
learned@t... on 06/03/2002

From: vjornes  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:30am
Subject: Undo idea

Just a thought/plea for a simple undo function.  I can see that any 
sort of comprehensive undo would rapidly get well out of hand (I 
know its been brought up before) but perhaps one way to limit 
complexity is just to provide whatever can easily be done.
e.g. Maybe add an undo (menu/button or whatever) that is present when 
undo is meaningful/possible.  When a difficult to undo operation is 
performed just grey out (reverse video/remove from view etc) the 
undo menu/button.

[One "undo" option that I would dearly like is to be able to undo an 
accidently ticked parents checkbox (when only some of the children had 
been completed).  I have nightmares (ok, maybe not that bad) about 
mucking up the status of projects, incorrectly remembering the 
childrens states and subsequently missing some important task.  I 
currently do regular saves to 'try' to avoid this.
I suspect this may be one of those "difficult to undo operations".]

Vic.

From: vjornes  <vjornes@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:38am
Subject: Re: %complete from progress bar - request

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	I thought about it, but that would be inconsistent UI .. which 
I
> tend to try and avoid. I think I used to have it do that, but got 
beet up
> about it?

Can't see how that would be inconsistent as in both cases you tap on 
the bar to see the number pop-up.  In the case of a parent you'd have 
just the one number.  I can see that people would wonder why they 
couldn't adjust it - but it doesn't take too much thought to see that 
you'd never be able to allocate the %age amongst the children.


> 
> 	heh. You know the todos on the website? Thats about 1/5th my
> master list :)     		jeff
> 

OUCH!

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 2:10am
Subject: Re: Filters

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Learned wrote:

> I just thought of another filter today which would be very 
> hand...filter on anything that does not have a target date. I put a 
> lot of things in that I don't necessarily take time to schedule when 
> I enter. It would be nice to see what I haven't planned for yet.

	Already in :) You can filter for the presence (or lack thereof) of
the 3 dates. (As well as checking for the existance of broken links, or
presence of todo or datebook links, etc). You'll see tomorrow :)

	The 2.2.3 alpha won't include matching against date ranges, but
will have the date presence. (Thats a boolean type, which is
supported. Date queries themselves not yet implemented)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 2:14am
Subject: Re: Undo idea

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, vjornes wrote:

> Just a thought/plea for a simple undo function.  I can see that any
> sort of comprehensive undo would rapidly get well out of hand (I know
> its been brought up before) but perhaps one way to limit complexity is
> just to provide whatever can easily be done. e.g. Maybe add an undo
> (menu/button or whatever) that is present when undo is
> meaningful/possible.  When a difficult to undo operation is performed
> just grey out (reverse video/remove from view etc) the undo
> menu/button.

	This is a toughie; essentisally, an Undo operation is one of the
two cases: 1) One of the most difficult to implement things, or 2) The
most memory hogging you can get. (ie: For option 2, you just keep a copy
of your entire list before each change is made. Undo is thus easy, but
wasteful of memory). Doing it (1), as in tracking each change and what
actually changed, is a tonne of work.. as you must both store change
information, and create rewind operations to handle that undo stuff. Then
you must fit into things, and handle a million special cases (deletion,
etc). You can ignore some of those, perhaps, but evfen the simple undos
(priority change, say) is a fair amount of work to do halfway well.

	There is the Revert operation.. if your'e good with Save Now, then
Revert provides your simple undo. It has side effects (ie: it cannot
restore links from the dead, and such).. but it can save you in some need.

> [One "undo" option that I would dearly like is to be able to undo an
> accidently ticked parents checkbox (when only some of the children had
> been completed).  I have nightmares (ok, maybe not that bad) about
> mucking up the status of projects, incorrectly remembering the
> childrens states and subsequently missing some important task.  I
> currently do regular saves to 'try' to avoid this. I suspect this may
> be one of those "difficult to undo operations".]

	Yep; if it was just one check it woudl be possible. But since it
cascades, you have to track all the cascading changes. Which could of
course by a hundred or more items, so lots of memory and work to make that
work properly. Revert would handle this. Revert is to be avoided if at all
possible, but if you do a catastrophic cascade, Revert is there for you
:) (But hopefully you've opened/closed the lsit recenbtly, or Save Now'd)

		jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 2:53am
Subject: Re: Filters

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:10:03 -0400 (EDT), Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>Already in :) You can filter for the presence (or lack thereof)
>of
>the 3 dates. (As well as checking for the existance of broken links,
>or
>presence of todo or datebook links, etc). You'll see tomorrow :)

Tomorrow?  I have to wait ALL night????
-- 
220, 221 ... whatever it takes
learned@t... on 06/03/2002

From: cfralick_2000  <cfralick@i...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 3:45am
Subject: Re: User Guide?

What kind of logos are you looking for? 

Clark

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 4:14am
Subject: Can one Filter by multiple parameters ?

ie. high priority: color red and "something else" color blue, know 
what I mean, that would be nice ?

thanks

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 4:44am
Subject: Re: Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....

sweet!
kevin

------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: smasters@a... 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow and Megawiki, I've tried....



  Jeff wrote:

             An old question pops out, then. Is this reverse-linking concept
  good for datebook items as well? Theres nothing stopping me from adding
  the origin info into datebook notes as well, and I'm sure Ling wouldnt'
  mind making his hack work there, too. (Who knows, maybe it already works
  that way..)

             Ling: Should I include this in the Shadow distribution, in a
  "contrib" directory?

                       jeff


  I just created a datebook link, then pasted the link text into the datebook
  note. Guess what, ShadowLink worked flawlessly. So Ling has already made
  HER (since I screwed up twice I thought I'd try to gain some points back)
  hack work there too. Now all that needs to be done is for Jeff to add the
  origin text to  the datebook  records. Hope I'm not confusing the issue   :
  o

  Scott





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 4:51am
Subject: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

i too have notice item number one occur, and did not like that result...i also prefer one week from the today's date.  seems intuitive like the others...
kevin

------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tarasofsky 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:16 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss]

  Now the specific comments:

  1. I have just noticed that the "+1 week" option in the target date 
  column advances by one week from the original target date, rather 
  than the current date.  I would have thought that advancing from the 
  current date would be a lot more useful, especially since one week 
  from the target date could still be in the past.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 4:57am
Subject: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

now that i read this response a few emails later, it answers my question about the +1 week....and i now like the way it is...never thought hit today, then one week to go out one week...now i know.

and on the to do categories, didn't know about looking to my to do program...explains another thing that was messing with my mind!

thanks for the questions tarasofsky, and the answers jeff.

kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] a few points, and some encouragement


  On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, tarasofsky wrote:

  >> 1. I have just noticed that the "+1 week" option in the target date
  > column advances by one week from the original target date, rather than
  > the current date.  I would have thought that advancing from the
  > current date would be a lot more useful, especially since one week
  > from the target date could still be in the past.

        +1 is "add week", so you can hit it repeatedly to step a week
  along. You can do two steps if you want.. "Today", then "+1 week" to get
  next a week later. But you can then do "+1 week" twice more to get 3 weeks
  away. Its there for flexibility. I'd like to add more options one of these
  days, too.

  > 2. I recently deleted a couple of To Do categories, but still saw them
  > appear in the list of categories in the Link Manager.  Is there not a
  > way to make this sync automatically?

        The Link Manager, when you try and set the ToDo object category,
  looks in the ToDo database for the categories. If they're showing up in
  LM, they're still in ToDo. Did you delete them from another program, but
  not actually ToDo? (ie: Shadow doesn't make up the categories.. it gets
  them from the ToDo program :)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Steven Hill  <mailing@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 9:27am
Subject: Re: Undo idea

On Tue, 04 Jun 2002 01:30:37 -0000, vjornes wrote:
>[One "undo" option that I would dearly like is to be able to undo an
>accidently ticked parents checkbox (when only some of the children
>had
>been completed).  I have nightmares (ok, maybe not that bad) about
>mucking up the status of projects, incorrectly remembering the
>childrens states and subsequently missing some important task.  I
>currently do regular saves to 'try' to avoid this.
>I suspect this may be one of those "difficult to undo operations".]

I have a suggestion for this scenario, and other similar. It seems to 
me that the natural progression for a parent item with children is to 
check off all the children in order to get the parent checked, so how 
about an alert if the parent is checked before all children are (of 
course if all children are checked, the parent would be as well). 
Something like "Not all children are checked. Are you sure you want 
to check the parent?".

I would think this should be a preference, as it would be annoying 
for those who check parents on purpose to have to confirm every time.

Just a thought...
-- 
Steven Hill, mailing@s... on 04/06/2002

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 11:37am
Subject: Re: Re: User Guide?

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, cfralick_2000 wrote:

> What kind of logos are you looking for? 

	Thats the rub, not sure ;)  I've been toying with a few over the
years, and a few peple have submitted some they whipped up for fun. I've
not thought of any logo'ey stuff, but a plan on the word Shadow or
Codejedi is always cool. Just thought I'd toss it out there.. if anyone
has any ideas let me know :) Or maybe I should make up a contest and put a
small prize on it or something.. hmm..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 11:39am
Subject: Re: Can one Filter by multiple parameters ?

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> ie. high priority: color red and "something else" color blue, know 
> what I mean, that would be nice ?

	I don't have any filtering support where you can filter on colour,
since colour is too easy to mes up (ie: When you pick a colour, you can
pick from 50 reds or whatever.. hard to pick the exact right one all the
time). I may add icon support, in which case you can perhaps filter by
icon at that time..

	The customizable filter support will be in the next update. It
lets you define your own filters with as many criterion as you like.
Colour is none of the criterion though, but you can do things like specify
a filter based on level, priority, progress, the dates, existance of
links, etc, and I'm open to suggestions ofr new criterion.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 11:40am
Subject: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> i too have notice item number one occur, and did not like that
> result...i also prefer one week from the today's date.  seems
> intuitive like the others...

	But then it is not useful for adding a week; ie: +1 week, if it
means, "=1 week from today", then its really "next week", right? And if
you want 3 weeks from now, how woudl you do it, withotu picking it
yourself?

	Perhaps I should change it to "Add one week", to be more clear?

		jeff

> kevin
> 
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: tarasofsky 
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:16 PM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss]
> 
>   Now the specific comments:
> 
>   1. I have just noticed that the "+1 week" option in the target date 
>   column advances by one week from the original target date, rather 
>   than the current date.  I would have thought that advancing from the 
>   current date would be a lot more useful, especially since one week 
>   from the target date could still be in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Steven Hill  <mailing@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 0:04pm
Subject: Re: Can one Filter by multiple parameters ?

On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 07:39:00 -0400 (EDT), Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>    I don't have any filtering support where you can filter on 
colour,
>since colour is too easy to mes up (ie: When you pick a colour, you
>can pick from 50 reds or whatever.. hard to pick the exact right one
>all the time).

I'm also keen on this (colour filtering). To make it easier, how 
about limiting filtering to a selection of predefined colours 
(CMYRGB?). This would make it easier to pick the right colour. All 
colours would be able to be chosen - maybe have a More... button at 
the bottom of the picker to access the default picker (see TinySheet 
for an example of what I mean) - and this would mean that filtering 
could be done, without changing how it works now substantially.

>I may add icon support, in which case you can perhaps filter
>by icon at that time..

Woohoo!! Icons are another one of my long-term wishes. Hopefully, you 
intend on using the 'standard' icon databases as in Action Names and 
later versions of DateBk...?
-- 
Steven Hill, mailing@s... on 04/06/2002

From: llgriffll  <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 1:04pm
Subject: Re: a few points, and some encouragement

This same topic came up in the Datebk group...I know CESD changed it 
so +1 week would be one week from today...I think having both 
options would be nice. +1 week would do it from today, "One Week 
From Target" would do just that.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:
> 
> > i too have notice item number one occur, and did not like that
> > result...i also prefer one week from the today's date.  seems
> > intuitive like the others...
> 
> 	But then it is not useful for adding a week; ie: +1 week, if 
it
> means, "=1 week from today", then its really "next week", right? 
And if
>