From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 0:14am
Subject: Re: latest versions???

nope, that is the latest...handheld and desktop have different versions!  
kevin

Kevin S. Giberson
Law Office of Kevin S. Giberson
Watsonville/Santa Cruz
262 East Lake Avenue
Watsonville, CA  95076
Office:  (831) 722-4500
Fax:  (831) 722-4535
kevin@g...

------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mcginnj 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 4:30 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] latest versions???


  Can someone please tell me what the latest version is for the Palm 
  OSportion and the desktop portion?

  On my Prism Shadow says it is 2.2.1, but the PC desktop says 1.1.0.  

  Have I missed something?
  Jo



  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 0:41am
Subject: Re: Re: (unknown)

On Sat, 25 May 2002, roberto_tores wrote:

> Thanks!  
> 
> I also have found some random crashes when running on the POSE (Palm 
> IIIc, OS 4.1)

	Something a little more specific might be nice ;) Crashes doing
what, what sort of errors, etc :)

	POSE will spit out a lot of nonsense at times though, for
legitimate things. (Warnings). Crashes are certainly interesting, though.

		jeff

> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 24 May 2002, roberto_tores wrote:
> > 
> > > Yes.
> > > 
> > > And if it is uncheck and i change the percent to 100% the 
> checkbox 
> > > does not get checked.
> > 
> > 	The reason for that is because if you set the %age to 100, and
> > then it implicitly checks, and you uncheck it, what value do we 
> change the
> > %age to?
> > 
> > 	I will be adding a %age of "unknown" (or "n/a") to the 
> system, to
> > resolve this oddity.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 0:44am
Subject: Re: Alarm function

On Sat, 25 May 2002, julie_a_hood wrote:

> Have you considered adding an alarm function to Shadow?

	Many times, and each time I decide against it. ie: You can in a
tap or two link somethign to ToDo or Datebook, and set an alarm there. You
can jump to ToDo or Datebook and back again rather easily with Shadow or
various hacks, so this is a good thing. (Everyone has those apps, since
they are built in, and they are specialized at things like alarms, and
also sync to desktops.. so its a win win win situation :)

> I'm trying to sell my hubby on Shadow, and he is looking for a way to
> set an alarm on his to dos.  I mentioned using Datebook, but he
> doesn't want "Take out the trash" appearing on his list of
> appointments for today.  He just wants an alarm to go off if he hasn't
> taken out the trash by a certain time.

	Linking is the way to go; ie: Using Shadow as a captain of the
team for example.. your datebook is good at setting dates and times. Link
the trash item to the datebook, and set the date and time and alarm
there. Thats what datebook is for after all, and you can then see it on
your desktop, get a desktop alarm, and see it in your list of tasks for
the week etc, in datebook. (And if you have dozens or hundreds of Shadow
lists, the datebook and todo are a handy clearing ground for all the
linked items.. you can have hundreds of Shadow lists, but only one ToDo
and Datebook, and thus all your linked items are easily visible when
needed, regardless of their source)

	Sorry for my rush.. heading out the door :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 0:45am
Subject: Re: latest versions???

On Sat, 25 May 2002, mcginnj wrote:

> Can someone please tell me what the latest version is for the Palm 
> OSportion and the desktop portion?
> 
> On my Prism Shadow says it is 2.2.1, but the PC desktop says 1.1.0.  
> 
> Have I missed something?

	The handheld app has been around a long time. The desktop has been
around only a few months. Hence, the desktop is one major revision behind,
to illustrate its age. You can always get the latest handheld application
(2.2.1), and it will contain the latest approved desktop version for that
handheld version. For the forseeable future, the handheld updates will
always contain the newest desktop updates.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: eric_hart  <ehart@m...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 3:43pm
Subject: Delegated tasks

I would like to track tasks that I assign to other people.  Ideally, 
when I am talking to that person, I would view a filter that shows 
only their tasks.  Does anyone know of a way to do this?

Thanks,

Eric

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 6:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadowy thoughts (tags and filtering)

forgot the details about tags until reading this email and Jeff's prior one.  i too would place this at the top of my list, especially for the linking of names, clients, etc. that the address book does not do as neatly.  of course, after jeff finishes the custom category option!  thanks for the work and finishing up the handheld perfection jeff!
kevin----- Original Message ----- 
  From: smasters@a... 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:47 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadowy thoughts (tags and filtering)



  Tags are an extra way of marking each item. You could have tags for
  resources, for categories, for days of the week, for importance, etc. You
  decide. You can then use those tags to filter by. So in the "address link
  filter" example, if one had each of the people that report to you set up as
  a tag, then if he wanted to see "what's Joe working on this week" he could
  filter by the tag "Joe".

  A very powerful organizing tool, that encompasses much.

  I would vote for Tags over anything else handheld-wise, and this would be a
  solution for the "address link filter" as well. Just my .02

  Scott





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 8:40pm
Subject: Hi Jeff, re: plugins and MegaWiki

hi jeff, is there any plugin for Shadow that being created for 
MegaWiki any time soon(if is out I'm sorry I din't come across it)

thanks in adance your program is amazing just started using the 
filters and WOW...

congrats, well worth the price

enjoy the weekedn

From: lazza  <firstpacific@r...>
Date: Sun May 26, 2002 11:34pm
Subject: Re: Alarm function

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2002, julie_a_hood wrote:
> 
> > Have you considered adding an alarm function to Shadow?
> 
> 	Many times, and each time I decide against it. ie: You can in 
a
> tap or two link somethign to ToDo or Datebook, and set an alarm 
there. You
> can jump to ToDo or Datebook and back again rather easily with 
Shadow or
> various hacks, so this is a good thing. 

Can you please help?
 
How can I easily jump to ToDo or Datebook from Shadow and what are 
the best of the hacks for doing that?

If I delete a Shadow-linked todo from ToDo will it be deleted in 
Shadow?

If I use a repeat function in ToDoPlus with a Shadow-linked item will 
the new item generated by the repeat automatically be linked in 
Shadow?

Many thanks,
Larry

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 0:37am
Subject: Re: Re: Alarm function

On Sun, 26 May 2002, lazza wrote:

> > > Have you considered adding an alarm function to Shadow?
> > 
> > 	Many times, and each time I decide against it. ie: You can in 
> a
> > tap or two link somethign to ToDo or Datebook, and set an alarm 
> there. You
> > can jump to ToDo or Datebook and back again rather easily with 
> Shadow or
> > various hacks, so this is a good thing. 
> 
> Can you please help?
>  
> How can I easily jump to ToDo or Datebook from Shadow and what are 
> the best of the hacks for doing that?

	If you have linked an item to todo, then you can simple tap on the
little arrow on the right of the item in the main list view, and are
presented with various options.. one of which is "goto ToDo" or "goto
Datebook" depending which links you have. There are other ways to jump
over as well.

	To come back, you can use a hack, or enable this option: Turn on
"Return after goto" in your global preferences, Link options. So go to
Help, hit Preferences, then Next a couple of times, and enable the option.

	Then when you do a goto, and are done in the other app, just hit
the Home button and you'll return to Shadow directly.

> If I delete a Shadow-linked todo from ToDo will it be deleted in
> Shadow?

	Shadow will warn you that an item has a broken link. You can
delete it then. If you delete it in Shadow, you can have a pref set that
will then delete the corresponding ToDo or Datebook links.

> If I use a repeat function in ToDoPlus with a Shadow-linked item will
> the new item generated by the repeat automatically be linked in
> Shadow?

	The item will not automatically be picked up (since Shadow won't
know which list you want it in, or even if you want it at all). However,
depending how they do the repeat, Shadows link may attach to the new item,
or stay at the old one.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: paulbcf  <ext555@p...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 1:00am
Subject: Re: Alarm function

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> > If I use a repeat function in ToDoPlus with a Shadow-linked item 
will
> > the new item generated by the repeat automatically be linked in
> > Shadow?
> 
> 	The item will not automatically be picked up (since Shadow 
won't
> know which list you want it in, or even if you want it at all). 
However,
> depending how they do the repeat, Shadows link may attach to the 
new item,
> or stay at the old one.

-----If I recall correctly--Shadow picks up the next occurence of 
repeating to-dos in to do plus--

I'm not sure about the re-generating to-dos though--I think it had 
trouble with those .

In either case---To Do plus won't generate the next occurence until 
the app is run again.---This can be done once a day etc.

hope that helps.

Paul
 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 2:39am
Subject: Re: Delegated tasks

On Sun, 26 May 2002, eric_hart wrote:

> I would like to track tasks that I assign to other people.  Ideally, 
> when I am talking to that person, I would view a filter that shows 
> only their tasks.  Does anyone know of a way to do this?

	Not in as complete a way as you want it; that ability is coming
soonish. You can, however, link address book entries to Shadow items, to
attach people to tasks, as one way to help out. I'm sure others have lots
of ideas on other ways :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 2:40am
Subject: Re: Hi Jeff, re: plugins and MegaWiki

On Sun, 26 May 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> hi jeff, is there any plugin for Shadow that being created for 
> MegaWiki any time soon(if is out I'm sorry I din't come across it)

	Not by me; I have enough stuff on my plate without working on
things to help other applications ;)  If anyone is interested in building
such a thing, I'll assist as much as I can, but if I add any more items to
my soon todo list, people waiting for their requests will lynch me ;)

> thanks in adance your program is amazing just started using the 
> filters and WOW...

	More to come, too ;) (User definable filters very soon)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Alan Macdougall  <dubh@c...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 8:13am
Subject: Feature Status: OPML?

Somewhere on the website there's a mention of forthcoming compatibility
with OPML.  I imagine this would need to be built into the desktop conduit.

I'd be interested to know how far down the track that might be: I already
own quite a nice desktop Outliner that understands OPML - Radio Userland. 

Radio Userland being a web content publishing package as well there's all
sorts of interesting end-user applications that could involve Shadow.

However I'm fairly realistic about the demand for this sort of feature
compared to some of the other things already on the list...

thanks for a cool app Jeff!

Alan

-- 

                Běonn caora dhubh ar an trčad is gile.
          (There are black sheep in the brightest flocks.)

                <http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/dubh/>

From: roberto_tores  <ZNWDUMPYLYPN@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 11:56am
Subject: Re: (unknown)

One specific emulator crash was when changing an outline view from 
checklist to custom and changing the custom category options.  When 
tapping done on the outline the emulator crashes badly with a soft 
reset.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2002, roberto_tores wrote:
> 
> > Thanks!  
> > 
> > I also have found some random crashes when running on the POSE 
(Palm 
> > IIIc, OS 4.1)
> 
> 	Something a little more specific might be nice ;) Crashes 
doing
> what, what sort of errors, etc :)
> 
> 	POSE will spit out a lot of nonsense at times though, for
> legitimate things. (Warnings). Crashes are certainly interesting, 
though.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 24 May 2002, roberto_tores wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Yes.
> > > > 
> > > > And if it is uncheck and i change the percent to 100% the 
> > checkbox 
> > > > does not get checked.
> > > 
> > > 	The reason for that is because if you set the %age to 100, and
> > > then it implicitly checks, and you uncheck it, what value do we 
> > change the
> > > %age to?
> > > 
> > > 	I will be adding a %age of "unknown" (or "n/a") to the 
> > system, to
> > > resolve this oddity.
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own 
> > micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he 
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@e...
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David Heasler  <David.Heasler@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 2:34pm
Subject: Desktop Improvements???

I am a registered user of Thought Manager, Progect and Shadow.

Bought into Progect because they had a desktop component.
When I and others discovered their desktop component didn't sync we were told it was 'coming soon'. That was eight months ago.
Its still coming.

In frustration with Progect I registered shadow about January. Thrilled to see that syncronization actually worked. Thrilled with features on the palm but sadly disappointed to discover that limitations of the desktop components made it of minimal use. But was told that improvements to the desktop component were 'coming soon'. Then 'right after vacation'. 

Its perhaps unreasonable that purchasers of palm software have expectations of development. But, when future developments are communicated at point of sale the follow through is really important, isn't it?  Please don't take offense. But please, hold off on some of the palm application development for a while and give us some help with the desktop component. 

Its really needed and long awaited. It will be deeply appreciated.

Respectfully submitted,
Dave Heasler

From: jc21009  <jc21009@y...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: Re: auto todo import?

I've been out of touch for a while and I'm catching up on about 2 
months of this list...

After reading through the discussion on "auto todo import" I had to 
chime in, even though it looks like the thread stopped some time ago.

Speaking fr those of us who use the palm desktop just as often as the 
hh to update and maintain our calendars, contacts and todo's, I have 
to say that much of what id being discussed doesn't really solve the 
problem of having to do perform multiple manipultions of todo's 
sometimes in Shadow,  sometimes in your preferred todo ap - almost 
always on thr hh. Changes made via the desktop create a whole new 
series of obsticals...

A couple of months ago, Jeff published a portion of an email that I 
sent to him. The concept is simple, but I have no idea what the 
programming would require. One list in Shadow that comes from "the 
manufacturer" already set to READ and WRITE directly to the todo 
database. Complete with notes and catagories etc. Any changes made to 
the database are then read by both aps. The list would have one 
parent per catagory, each parent woulf have one child per todo item.

From this point things like tags and linking within or between Shadow 
lists become (from my perspective) the custom ways to see what you 
want to see. From the number of items in this email thread, it's easy 
to see that we've all come up with our own solution, so forgive me 
for trying to sell my version.  See "Possible? (Someones Suggestion)" 
from mid March for the text of my original email.

From: Justin Nelson  <justinn@e...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 3:58pm
Subject: Importing from Hi-Note

Has anyone manage successfully to import from Hi-Note to Shadow?
If so, do you have any tips or warnings you can share, please?

Justin Nelson (using a Palm M505 with OS v.4.0, JackFlash, DateBk5, 
ShadowPlan and a LOAD of system extension hacks)

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Improvements???

david,
if you have been registered since january and in the discussion list, or if you had gone to the archives and read past messages, you would be fully aware of the plan and that jeff is on target with what all of us have heard for a while.  jeff has indicated a few things are going to be finished on the handheld first so it is "perfected" and should not need work for some time.  then the work will begin on the desktop.  since we all use pda's, obviously having it finished first is the priority.  the desktop is like icing on the cake for most.  thus, quit complaining, and if you look at the handheld and its abilities, when the desktop is done you will likely have a fine product.  learn to be patient like the rest of us, and in the end you will be happy.  for some that is not so easy, but you can still give it a try!  ; )
kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Heasler 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 7:34 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Desktop Improvements???



  I am a registered user of Thought Manager, Progect and Shadow.

  Bought into Progect because they had a desktop component.
  When I and others discovered their desktop component didn't sync we were told it was 'coming soon'. That was eight months ago.
  Its still coming.

  In frustration with Progect I registered shadow about January. Thrilled to see that syncronization actually worked. Thrilled with features on the palm but sadly disappointed to discover that limitations of the desktop components made it of minimal use. But was told that improvements to the desktop component were 'coming soon'. Then 'right after vacation'. 

  Its perhaps unreasonable that purchasers of palm software have expectations of development. But, when future developments are communicated at point of sale the follow through is really important, isn't it?  Please don't take offense. But please, hold off on some of the palm application development for a while and give us some help with the desktop component. 

  Its really needed and long awaited. It will be deeply appreciated.

  Respectfully submitted,
  Dave Heasler





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Feature Status: OPML?

On Mon, 27 May 2002, Alan Macdougall wrote:

> Somewhere on the website there's a mention of forthcoming compatibility
> with OPML.  I imagine this would need to be built into the desktop conduit.

	The conduit and desktop, of course.

> I'd be interested to know how far down the track that might be: I
> already own quite a nice desktop Outliner that understands OPML -
> Radio Userland.

	Awhile; I'm being pulled in too many directions at once, so I
can't scare in OPML support for awhile. It'd be an easy XSLT sheet though,
if you or anyone is interested.

> Radio Userland being a web content publishing package as well there's
> all sorts of interesting end-user applications that could involve
> Shadow.
> 
> However I'm fairly realistic about the demand for this sort of feature
> compared to some of the other things already on the list...

	Thats the rub ;)

> thanks for a cool app Jeff!

	Just glad to help out :)

		jeff

> 
> Alan
> 
> -- 
> 
>                 Běonn caora dhubh ar an trčad is gile.
>           (There are black sheep in the brightest flocks.)
> 
>                 <http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/dubh/>
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 4:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: (unknown)

On Mon, 27 May 2002, roberto_tores wrote:

> One specific emulator crash was when changing an outline view from 
> checklist to custom and changing the custom category options.  When 
> tapping done on the outline the emulator crashes badly with a soft 
> reset.

	Repeatable? Which error? Which emu version and ROM are you using?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Improvements???

On Mon, 27 May 2002, David Heasler wrote:

> I am a registered user of Thought Manager, Progect and Shadow.
> 
> Bought into Progect because they had a desktop component. When I and
> others discovered their desktop component didn't sync we were told it
> was 'coming soon'. That was eight months ago. Its still coming.

	"bought" in the relative term I hope; Progect is free, last I
checked.

> In frustration with Progect I registered shadow about January.
> Thrilled to see that syncronization actually worked. Thrilled with
> features on the palm but sadly disappointed to discover that
> limitations of the desktop components made it of minimal use. But was
> told that improvements to the desktop component were 'coming soon'.
> Then 'right after vacation'.

	Right.

> Its perhaps unreasonable that purchasers of palm software have
> expectations of development. But, when future developments are
> communicated at point of sale the follow through is really important,
> isn't it?  Please don't take offense. But please, hold off on some of
> the palm application development for a while and give us some help
> with the desktop component.

	I don't develop "at random"; I poll a lot of people to try and
gauge relative desire and worth of the things I build, as well as
factoring in time to build, annoyance and suffering in building, and how
long I've been promising something (or how long its been in my head or on
the todo list). If you check trhe dev plan (which is on the website,
though not written in stone) you'll note that the desktops are pretty much
at the top of the list.

	Theres lots to be done; due to various change sin the Palm OS
markets, and units, and platform cross compatability I'm trying to
maintain, etc, theres a lot of behind the scenes work going on. You dont'
see much, but I'm leading towards lots of goodness. Just remember I'm
supporting Palm OS across several platforms and working on desktops across
a half dozen platforms, including fixes, features, and lots of stuff. It
takes time on a minimal budget ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 4:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: auto todo import?

On Mon, 27 May 2002, jc21009 wrote:

> I've been out of touch for a while and I'm catching up on about 2 
> months of this list...
> 
> After reading through the discussion on "auto todo import" I had to 
> chime in, even though it looks like the thread stopped some time ago.

	I forget much of what was said myself. So for sake of argument,
I'll play devils advocate below :)

> Speaking fr those of us who use the palm desktop just as often as the 
> hh to update and maintain our calendars, contacts and todo's, I have 
> to say that much of what id being discussed doesn't really solve the 
> problem of having to do perform multiple manipultions of todo's 
> sometimes in Shadow,  sometimes in your preferred todo ap - almost 
> always on thr hh. Changes made via the desktop create a whole new 
> series of obsticals...
> 
> A couple of months ago, Jeff published a portion of an email that I 
> sent to him. The concept is simple, but I have no idea what the 
> programming would require. One list in Shadow that comes from "the 
> manufacturer" already set to READ and WRITE directly to the todo 
> database. Complete with notes and catagories etc. Any changes made to 
> the database are then read by both aps. The list would have one 
> parent per catagory, each parent woulf have one child per todo item.

	The problem with that is that you must lose a lot of the Shadow
goodness. Shadow has to keep its own databases since it has so many more
features than the built in applications databases can hope to contain.
Storing half the data in the built in and half the data in a Shadow list
is not useful, since that doesn't apply to straight Shadow lists, so it
would be a second method of data storage, which is wasteful.. and it also
leeds to many complications and impossibilities and limits (considering
beaming implications, for example). So Shadow data has to be kept all in
Shadow lists.

	This leads to two ways of implementing the above; 1) Auto import
all new items from the todo magic list into a special Shadow list. 2) Not
using a Shaodw list, but just having a special unique Shadow category view
of the ToDo database.

	1) What happens to items you delete in the Shadow list? Do they
delete from the todo list? What happens to items you delete from another
todo program.. do they auto-delete from the Shadow list? What about
hierarchy? Repeating todos and stuff become a problem. Could work, but
would be much development, which puts it down the list.

	2) Shadow magic todo list; we could make a custom type "TODO
LIST", that way any list could be assigned that type, and thus you coudl
put it into multiple Shadow categories, say. When the file is opened,
Shadow could then read through the entire todo list and build a dynamic
list from it (slow .. Shadow needs to cache various info and details about
the items, since Shadow has so many features and the todos do not, and
Shadow is not build to handle plain todos). So Shadow would read through
the ToDo database, figuring out how the items would look in Shadow
land. Perhaps ignore completed todos, for speed sake. Sort into categories
as top level items, todos as second level items.

	What then happens if you drag and drop todos around? Or try and
make greater depths? or link to todo? :) I would have to build many limits
into this mode so that you cannot do normal Shadowy things.

	To what end?

	Do duplicate what you already have in every Palm OS PDA? :)

	What about alarms and such, that Shadow does not do (or need to
do, due to every unit having Todo and Datebook?)

	I'm not convinced that the amount of work is worth it. What
benefits do we gain? :)

		jeff

> >From this point things like tags and linking within or between Shadow 
> lists become (from my perspective) the custom ways to see what you 
> want to see. From the number of items in this email thread, it's easy 
> to see that we've all come up with our own solution, so forgive me 
> for trying to sell my version.  See "Possible? (Someones Suggestion)" 
> from mid March for the text of my original email. 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 4:41pm
Subject: Re: Importing from Hi-Note

On Mon, 27 May 2002, Justin Nelson wrote:

> Has anyone manage successfully to import from Hi-Note to Shadow?
> If so, do you have any tips or warnings you can share, please?
> 
> Justin Nelson (using a Palm M505 with OS v.4.0, JackFlash, DateBk5, 
> ShadowPlan and a LOAD of system extension hacks)

	I experimented in the past; I forget the results (it was a year or
two back); I do recall that for the majority of then-current versions of
Hi-Note, you could do no sensible import due to them carefully chosing an
export format that had virtually no sense or value to it :) That may not
be true anymore, I'd have to check.

	I expect you could do a desktop oriented import; there is a
Shadow-tips entry on how to change text files on a desktop into simple
Shadow XML files that you can import using the desktop..

		jeff

From: egroy  <egroy@y...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 5:36pm
Subject: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

I was a happy user of Shadow for a long while. I am using it to track 
project activities as well as for personal projects / thought 
outlines / etc. 

My first problem started a few months ago, when my work project file 
and meeting notes file had become so large (> 400 entries each), it 
would take Shadow a while to open / close them, and also trying to 
find a record on the fly had become difficult. I tried to fix this by 
breaking these two files into a bunch of interlinked smaller files. 
This seemed to fix the problem for a while, but now there's about 2 - 
3 sec delay when I try do do any sort of file operations (switch from 
one category to another, open files, etc.) According to Jeff, this is 
due to the # of files in the system. I think the problem starts once 
the number of Shadow files exceeds 35 or so.

I can reduce the # of files by using Datebk5 + Megawiki + Supernames 
+ Memos for smaller projects. However, if I can't use Shadow for 
every project, what's the point of using it at all ? Using different 
tools to do the same tasks is a poor practice.

I have Handspring Visor running under Afterburner, with the speed of 
250% over Palm IIIe as reported by Benchmark. This seems to be fast 
enough for all my other needs.

Have anyone run into the same problem ? Any tips / tricks / 
suggestions that wouldn't require the change of hardware ? (If I had 
to shell out a couple hundred bucks again, I'd probably go for IPAQ).

Thanks !

Eugene

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 6:01pm
Subject: New poll for shadow-discuss

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
shadow-discuss group:

If both Desktop and Handheld Shadows 
had the same functionality, which one 
do you think you would do most of your 
work on ? (i.e. creating lists, adding 
items (planning stage), reading lists, 
checking off items (implementation 
stage) 

  o Mostly working in Desktop, use HH to look up data when I'm away from PC 
  o Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only 
  o New lists created on HH, as they grow larger, most work will be done on DT 
  o I don't know yet 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/surveys?id=922019  

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 6:00pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Improvements???

I understand your impatience.  Shadow is this useful and feature rich
because Jeff has responded to many of our suggestions and implemented those
with the widest (or loudest) appeal.  We mostly wanted the handheld side to
be "perfect", and that perhaps has delayed Jeff working on the Desktop
somewhat.  But the same excellent work will happen to the Desktop, now that
it's close to the top of the ToDo list.  Hang in there and you won't be
disappointed.

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Heasler" <David.Heasler@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Desktop Improvements???


>
> I am a registered user of Thought Manager, Progect and Shadow.
>
> Bought into Progect because they had a desktop component.
> When I and others discovered their desktop component didn't sync we were
told it was 'coming soon'. That was eight months ago.
> Its still coming.
>
> In frustration with Progect I registered shadow about January. Thrilled to
see that syncronization actually worked. Thrilled with features on the palm
but sadly disappointed to discover that limitations of the desktop
components made it of minimal use. But was told that improvements to the
desktop component were 'coming soon'. Then 'right after vacation'.
>
> Its perhaps unreasonable that purchasers of palm software have
expectations of development. But, when future developments are communicated
at point of sale the follow through is really important, isn't it?  Please
don't take offense. But please, hold off on some of the palm application
development for a while and give us some help with the desktop component.
>
> Its really needed and long awaited. It will be deeply appreciated.
>
> Respectfully submitted,
> Dave Heasler
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 6:07pm
Subject: Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

never had a similar problem, but sounds like a memory problem on the pda itself.  however, how much free memory on your pda?  usually you need double the program itself to run efficiently...thus figure out your total shadow space with your data included, double it, and see if you have that much free space.  if not, time to clear out some of the old.  there are places you can send your unit to double the internal memory from 8 to 16 as i have done, and it helps greatly.  of course now with os5 coming out, more speed, and more memory you may just want to wait and buy another.  as for ipaq, looks cool, but i'd stay with palm os myself.  make sure you do your research before you make the jump, as have many i know that were disappointed after they made the jump.  good luck.
kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: egroy 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 10:36 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?


  I was a happy user of Shadow for a long while. I am using it to track 
  project activities as well as for personal projects / thought 
  outlines / etc. 

  My first problem started a few months ago, when my work project file 
  and meeting notes file had become so large (> 400 entries each), it 
  would take Shadow a while to open / close them, and also trying to 
  find a record on the fly had become difficult. I tried to fix this by 
  breaking these two files into a bunch of interlinked smaller files. 
  This seemed to fix the problem for a while, but now there's about 2 - 
  3 sec delay when I try do do any sort of file operations (switch from 
  one category to another, open files, etc.) According to Jeff, this is 
  due to the # of files in the system. I think the problem starts once 
  the number of Shadow files exceeds 35 or so.

  I can reduce the # of files by using Datebk5 + Megawiki + Supernames 
  + Memos for smaller projects. However, if I can't use Shadow for 
  every project, what's the point of using it at all ? Using different 
  tools to do the same tasks is a poor practice.

  I have Handspring Visor running under Afterburner, with the speed of 
  250% over Palm IIIe as reported by Benchmark. This seems to be fast 
  enough for all my other needs.

  Have anyone run into the same problem ? Any tips / tricks / 
  suggestions that wouldn't require the change of hardware ? (If I had 
  to shell out a couple hundred bucks again, I'd probably go for IPAQ).

  Thanks !

  Eugene 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 6:10pm
Subject: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

more choices on the poll...what about mostly on HH with occasional work on DT too....  oh well, will choose the closest of the limited choices!
kevin

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 11:01 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] New poll for shadow-discuss



  Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
  shadow-discuss group:

  If both Desktop and Handheld Shadows 
  had the same functionality, which one 
  do you think you would do most of your 
  work on ? (i.e. creating lists, adding 
  items (planning stage), reading lists, 
  checking off items (implementation 
  stage) 

    o Mostly working in Desktop, use HH to look up data when I'm away from PC 
    o Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only 
    o New lists created on HH, as they grow larger, most work will be done on DT 
    o I don't know yet 


  To vote, please visit the following web page:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/surveys?id=922019  

  Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
  not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
  web site listed above.

  Thanks!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Pat Galea  <pg@d...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 6:07pm
Subject: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

> more choices on the poll...what about mostly on HH with occasional work on
DT too....  oh well, will choose the closest of the limited choices!
> kevin

Ditto! That's what I wanted to choose.

pg

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 6:20pm
Subject: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

I know we're not encouraged to respond in this way, but I can't vote. 
Choices are wrong. For example

"Mostly working on HH, using DT to print only" - contrast the "Mostly" 
in the first clause with the "only" in the second. What about "Mostly 
working on HH, but often working on the DT." Is that included in this 
response or not?

Not a well constructed poll, I'm afraid.

On Monday, May 27, 2002, at 12:01 , shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com  
wrote:

>   o Mostly working in Desktop, use HH to look up data when I'm away 
> from PC
>   o Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only
>   o New lists created on HH, as they grow larger, most work will be 
> done on DT
>   o I don't know yet
Ken Gordon

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 7:06pm
Subject: ? for Powerusers

Hi folks,

1.Is there a way to on Custom list to move the date, the cube, and 
the arrow link more to the left so its not crammed up on the right

2. I'm trying to implement Shadow for all todo's connecting to DBK5 
as links but what happens on the following scenario:

I have a List called Class with all my exam, quiz, hw, scheduled and 
I filter by high priority for things coming up, ok fine, I have 
another list called @GTD with the following List(not children)
Home
School
Finance

and under each of those the following children:
This Week
This Month
This Quarter


so far so good right, i think, anyway, I would like to be able to 
transfer the high priority items on my Class List over to my School 
List under the children This Week or whichever one, follow me but I 
can't figure it out or may not be possible. I'm also using either MW 
or Linker

thanks

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 9:02pm
Subject: Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

On Mon, 27 May 2002, egroy wrote:

> I was a happy user of Shadow for a long while. I am using it to track 
> project activities as well as for personal projects / thought 
> outlines / etc. 
> 
> My first problem started a few months ago, when my work project file 
> and meeting notes file had become so large (> 400 entries each), it 
> would take Shadow a while to open / close them, and also trying to 
> find a record on the fly had become difficult. I tried to fix this by 
> breaking these two files into a bunch of interlinked smaller files. 
> This seemed to fix the problem for a while, but now there's about 2 - 
> 3 sec delay when I try do do any sort of file operations (switch from 
> one category to another, open files, etc.) According to Jeff, this is 
> due to the # of files in the system. I think the problem starts once 
> the number of Shadow files exceeds 35 or so.

	Nope; the number of Shadow files isn't relevant; its the number of
files on your entire device. ie: Since you can have as many Shadow filesd
as you want, of whatever name you want, Shadow must ask Palm OS to search
for files of type "Shadow" (more or less). For the "ToDo" program, there
is only "ToDoDB", so it just opens it.. but Shadow, in the file selection
screen, must go through the Palm OS and look for any file of type
"Shadow". As such, your time to scan the files is directly proportional to
the number of files on your device, and how fragmented that listing is,
etc.

	So, if you have a new unit, with 100 Shadow files on it, fast. If
you've got a unit you've hsd for a few years, and you've been trying new
applciations on it every week for that time, and likely have thousands of
files in your palm memory, than the directory search is slow.

	Nothign I can easily do about it; I can cache the file listing,
right, in a file, so that instead of scanning memory, I just read the file
listing. This is cool and works fine.. until you send up files from the
desktop, or from beaming, or the like, or reinstall your unit, or things
out of scope. At which time the cache can be invalidated, and then you
start wondering where your files are.. so I'd need to include a
"Refresh" button to refresh the cache. And then get lots of questions.

	Actually, fighting the above argument is something I didn't think
of; a preference to enable a cache. Enabling the pref woudl make a warning
box asking "are you sure?", so you know darned well what your'e going
into. If you say yes, I can live on the cache, and you can push a Refresh
button to rescan then.

	That'd be pretty fast.

	Hows that sounds?

> I can reduce the # of files by using Datebk5 + Megawiki + Supernames +
> Memos for smaller projects. However, if I can't use Shadow for every
> project, what's the point of using it at all ? Using different tools
> to do the same tasks is a poor practice.

	Shadow is not the problem; I've got 150 Shadow files in a dozen
categories, and its fast as lightning -- I trim the other useless files in
memory to keep other programs from spewing out crap :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 9:07pm
Subject: Re: ? for Powerusers

On Mon, 27 May 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> 1.Is there a way to on Custom list to move the date, the cube, and 
> the arrow link more to the left so its not crammed up on the right

	Actual positions are determined by Shadow, to fit the current
screen and with an average spacing that seems to have been welcomed. I
don't yet have any fudge factors for tighting up spacving on personal
preference.

> 2. I'm trying to implement Shadow for all todo's connecting to DBK5 as
> links but what happens on the following scenario:
> 
> I have a List called Class with all my exam, quiz, hw, scheduled and 
> I filter by high priority for things coming up, ok fine, I have 
> another list called @GTD with the following List(not children)
> Home
> School
> Finance
> 
> and under each of those the following children:
> This Week
> This Month
> This Quarter
> 
> so far so good right, i think, anyway, I would like to be able to 
> transfer the high priority items on my Class List over to my School 
> List under the children This Week or whichever one, follow me but I 
> can't figure it out or may not be possible. I'm also using either MW 
> or Linker

	I'll leave this to some of the GtD people :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jc21009  <jc21009@y...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 9:25pm
Subject: Re: auto todo import?

As for losing Shadow goodness: 
One of Shadow's best features (in my litle world)is it's flexability. 
I understand the limitations imposed by the todo database, but would 
suggest that the todo aps (both built-in and all the replacements 
I've tried) impose limitations that go far beyond the the database. 
The simple things that Shadow would improve would be worth the 
purchase price alone.  For example: 

built in app - lots of wasted screen space, to few items per screen, 
limited font support (unless you like lots of crashes), need hacks to 
do any good linking. 

datebk4/5 todo presentation - when I check something as "done", I 
have to go back the "due date" in the datebook side then flip back to 
the todo list to see the completed item. I keep a lot of resident 
notes on item progress that are still relavent after completion. I 
find the datebk4/5 approach unacceptable, although I am trying to 
construct a custom view that will work for me. (their support team 
has not been able to help me yet)

   

> This leads to two ways of implementing the above; 1) Auto import 
>all new items from the todo magic list into a special Shadow list. 
>2) Not using a Shaodw list, but just having a special unique Shadow 
>category view of the ToDo database.
> 

Would either of the above allow for new items to be added // or 
changes to existing items thru Shadow (and have them saved to the 
todo database).

>1) What happens to items you delete in the Shadow list? Do they
> delete from the todo list? What happens to items you delete from 
>another todo program.. do they auto-delete from the Shadow list? 
>What about hierarchy? Repeating todos and stuff become a problem. 
>Could work, but would be much development, which puts it down the 
>list.
>

I would keep it "simple" - deletes - if not writing direclty to and 
from the todo database, then any 'sync' between the 2 should include 
not only deletes, but adds and changes.
 

> 2) Shadow magic todo list; we could make a custom type "TODO
> LIST", that way any list could be assigned that type, and thus you 
>coudl put it into multiple Shadow categories, say. When the file is 
opened,> Shadow could then read through the entire todo list and 
build a dynamic list from it (slow .. Shadow needs to cache various 
info and details about the items, since Shadow has so many features 
and the todos do not, and
> Shadow is not build to handle plain todos). So Shadow would read 
through
> the ToDo database, figuring out how the items would look in Shadow
> land. Perhaps ignore completed todos, for speed sake. Sort into 
categories
> as top level items, todos as second level items.
> 

ignoring completed items takes me back to Datebk4/5


>What then happens if you drag and drop todos around? Or try and
> make greater depths? or link to todo? :) I would have to build many 
>limits into this mode so that you cannot do normal Shadowy things.
> To what end?
> Do duplicate what you already have in every Palm OS PDA? :)
> What about alarms and such, that Shadow does not do (or need to
> do, due to every unit having Todo and Datebook?)
> 

I'm talking about a better mousetrap for the average mouse (not 
trying trying to catch Pinky and the Brain). In other words I would 
view this merely as a tool that Shadow has to offer the masses. 
Shadow already has a U/I that blows away any todo apps I've used, 
just need the right kind of access to the todo database to make it a 
complete replacement.

> I'm not convinced that the amount of work is worth it. What
> benefits do we gain? :)
> 

I see a benefit, from a user's and a marketer's standpoint, I would 
keep it simple, thus increasing the cost benefit ratio. But as 
always, these are merely my desires, if i had the skills I'd try it. 
Shadow already exceeds my need on the HH side. Desktop is another 
story.

We've traded a few emails on the desktop functionality, since mine 
won't work (yes I'm still here) I'd rank this higher (for me).

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Mon May 27, 2002 11:10pm
Subject: Re: ? for Powerusers: Thanks Jeff

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2002, jledesma28 wrote:
> 
> > 1.Is there a way to on Custom list to move the date, the cube, 
and 
> > the arrow link more to the left so its not crammed up on the right
> 
> 	Actual positions are determined by Shadow, to fit the current
> screen and with an average spacing that seems to have been 
welcomed. I
> don't yet have any fudge factors for tighting up spacving on 
personal
> preference.
> 
> > 2. I'm trying to implement Shadow for all todo's connecting to 
DBK5 as
> > links but what happens on the following scenario:
> > 
> > I have a List called Class with all my exam, quiz, hw, scheduled 
and 
> > I filter by high priority for things coming up, ok fine, I have 
> > another list called @GTD with the following List(not children)
> > Home
> > School
> > Finance
> > 
> > and under each of those the following children:
> > This Week
> > This Month
> > This Quarter
> > 
> > so far so good right, i think, anyway, I would like to be able to 
> > transfer the high priority items on my Class List over to my 
School 
> > List under the children This Week or whichever one, follow me but 
I 
> > can't figure it out or may not be possible. I'm also using either 
MW 
> > or Linker
> 
> 	I'll leave this to some of the GtD people :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 0:03am
Subject: List and Combining them

Is it possible to combined two list into one, I can't figure it out, 
if this is possible at all, any insights, greatly appreciated..

jel

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 0:13am
Subject: A better explanation to the prev. post: relating to SP and Importing List

Hello, is it possible to combined two list into one with Shadow Plan, 
I can't figure it out, if this is possible at all, any insights, 
greatly appreciated..I also use MW to link back to Shadow, but in my 
current system I'd like inport a list onto another one. eg. "Main 
Item List" right

there I have a list called Next Action and Current Action, so far so 
good right, ok, I have another list called DAT Study Plan, where I 
list all my study matieral and selected study time for the next 
3months... ok eg.[ Bio: Kaplan    5/31/02], now what I'd like to do 
is import this particular item to the "Master Item List" under the 
the listing of current action or next action either/or depending on 
the situation. Can this be done and if so how, please.

thanks in advance

 :)

From: Byron Allgood  <1POPOLO@P...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 2:34am
Subject: RE: Digest Number 510

I could not agree more.
I would suggest building these ground breaking features into  the H/H first.
Those who are not familiar will thank you when they see what it can do. Then
when you work the Desktop app again, you can include filters and tags into
that side, and do a complete job of it all at once.

________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 11:00:25 -0700
>    From: "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Shadowy thoughts (tags and filtering)
>
> forgot the details about tags until reading this email and Jeff's
> prior one.  i too would place this at the top of my list,
> especially for the linking of names, clients, etc. that the
> address book does not do as neatly.  of course, after jeff
> finishes the custom category option!  thanks for the work and
> finishing up the handheld perfection jeff!
> kevin----- Original Message -----
>   From: smasters@a...
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 9:47 AM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadowy thoughts (tags and filtering)
>
>
>
>   Tags are an extra way of marking each item. You could have tags for
>   resources, for categories, for days of the week, for
> importance, etc. You
>   decide. You can then use those tags to filter by. So in the
> "address link
>   filter" example, if one had each of the people that report to
> you set up as
>   a tag, then if he wanted to see "what's Joe working on this
> week" he could
>   filter by the tag "Joe".
>
>   A very powerful organizing tool, that encompasses much.
>
>   I would vote for Tags over anything else handheld-wise, and
> this would be a
>   solution for the "address link filter" as well. Just my .02
>
>   Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 2:56am
Subject: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., shadow-discuss@y... wrote:
> 
> Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
> shadow-discuss group:
> 
> If both Desktop and Handheld Shadows 
> had the same functionality, which one 
> do you think you would do most of your 
> work on ? (i.e. creating lists, adding 
> items (planning stage), reading lists, 
> checking off items (implementation 
> stage) 
> 
>   o Mostly working in Desktop, use HH to look up data when I'm away
from PC 
>   o Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only 
>   o New lists created on HH, as they grow larger, most work will be
done on DT 
>   o I don't know yet 
> 
> 

I have to agree with the other desires for more options on this. I
would have voted for the opposite of 3...

New lists created on DT (especially large projects), most work done
on HH.

I think this is specifically important since you had already said that
linking of items to Outlook and other DTs would be limited if present
at all, due to lack of "syncability".

Thus how *could* one do most of the work on the DT?  Unless you don't
link...which to me seems unlikely...

Just my 2 cents...

Ken

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 2:59am
Subject: Re: List and Combining them

On Tue, 28 May 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> Is it possible to combined two list into one, I can't figure it out, 
> if this is possible at all, any insights, greatly appreciated..

	There is not yet a "merge files" operation, though I intend on
adding one. You can use some clipboard operations to bring items across
(especially when the clip is in multi-clip mode). (ie: Try selecting and
copying in one list, then flip to the other list and hit Move, which
pastes and clears the clip in one shot). The multiclip lets you keep
copying without losing the clip contents, and with some strategic copy
choices you can copy the whole list pretty fast.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:06am
Subject: Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
<snip>
> 	Nothign I can easily do about it; I can cache the file listing,
> right, in a file, so that instead of scanning memory, I just read
the file
> listing. This is cool and works fine.. until you send up files from
the
> desktop, or from beaming, or the like, or reinstall your unit, or
things
> out of scope. At which time the cache can be invalidated, and then
you
> start wondering where your files are.. so I'd need to include a
> "Refresh" button to refresh the cache. And then get lots of
questions.
> 
> 	Actually, fighting the above argument is something I didn't think
> of; a preference to enable a cache. Enabling the pref woudl make a
warning
> box asking "are you sure?", so you know darned well what your'e
going
> into. If you say yes, I can live on the cache, and you can push a
Refresh
> button to rescan then.
> 
> 	That'd be pretty fast.
> 
> 	Hows that sounds?
> 
<snip>

Butting in, here...

I think this sounds good.  But what about an "auto-refresh" on first
use after a hotsync?  Most of the time, that would be when new SP
files would show up.  'Course you'd still need a manual method.

Ken

From: paulbcf  <ext555@p...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:07am
Subject: Re: auto todo import?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
> 
> 	I'm not convinced that the amount of work is worth it. What
> benefits do we gain? :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 

---This wouldn't matter as much if "New From" worked correctly--
Personally--I'd rather auto import all new to-do items into a 
special list and then move them from there.--

Desktop use is needed--and the crashes after new from don't make it 
worth using the feature---

If we could just import all "new to-dos" that would be great!

Paul.

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:32am
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

See, now i respectfully disagree with the last part of your remarks, as i find i'm just the opposite of what you suggest.  I don't link to much within my desktop, and do all the linking within my pda.  Thus, for me desktop is mainly just to add data quicker, as it still is easier to enter lots of input or data on a desktop.  I find i use my desktop more as the backup system to my calendaring/outline/phone programs (which could change a bit with the new desktop system on the way).  Thus, i create most on the pda, and then if i have a lot of data to enter i go to my desktop for faster entry (even with the pda keyboard i use occasionally).  And of course, i use the desktop for printing as that seems to almost be a given with the crappy pda printers).  

Now a new thought...Seems to me that Jeff spoiled us all by being a pda programmer who developed an awesome program, and now that he is putting a desktop version on the market for syncing and use with the pda those who still don't find quality in the desktop market are dying to have his entire focus there.  Remember, we both want an awesome product.  Jeff is so close to blowing away the competition with this program, lets let him finish with the few remaining details.  Once that is done, I say spend LOTS of time on the desktop to make in sync perfectly and have similar attributes to the pda.  Then we have two awesome programs in the end instead of two that have signs of greatness but did not quite take it there.  This is what we wish would happen with all programmers and programs.  Jeff and a couple others in this market set the standards for greatness, so lets support them fully and strive for two awesome programs!

Just some of my thoughts this evening....

Kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kenclatham 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 7:56 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: New poll for shadow-discuss


  > 
  >   o Mostly working in Desktop, use HH to look up data when I'm away
  from PC 
  >   o Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only 
  >   o New lists created on HH, as they grow larger, most work will be
  done on DT 
  >   o I don't know yet 
  > 
  > 

  I have to agree with the other desires for more options on this. I
  would have voted for the opposite of 3...

  New lists created on DT (especially large projects), most work done
  on HH.

  I think this is specifically important since you had already said that
  linking of items to Outlook and other DTs would be limited if present
  at all, due to lack of "syncability".

  Thus how *could* one do most of the work on the DT?  Unless you don't
  link...which to me seems unlikely...

  Just my 2 cents...

  Ken




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

sounds fine here too, and i also like the automatic auto-refresh on first use after a hotsync.  great ideas from all three...thanks.
kevin

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kenclatham 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 8:06 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?


  --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
  <snip>
  >       Nothign I can easily do about it; I can cache the file listing,
  > right, in a file, so that instead of scanning memory, I just read
  the file
  > listing. This is cool and works fine.. until you send up files from
  the
  > desktop, or from beaming, or the like, or reinstall your unit, or
  things
  > out of scope. At which time the cache can be invalidated, and then
  you
  > start wondering where your files are.. so I'd need to include a
  > "Refresh" button to refresh the cache. And then get lots of
  questions.
  > 
  >       Actually, fighting the above argument is something I didn't think
  > of; a preference to enable a cache. Enabling the pref woudl make a
  warning
  > box asking "are you sure?", so you know darned well what your'e
  going
  > into. If you say yes, I can live on the cache, and you can push a
  Refresh
  > button to rescan then.
  > 
  >       That'd be pretty fast.
  > 
  >       Hows that sounds?
  > 
  <snip>

  Butting in, here...

  I think this sounds good.  But what about an "auto-refresh" on first
  use after a hotsync?  Most of the time, that would be when new SP
  files would show up.  'Course you'd still need a manual method.

  Ken




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:43am
Subject: Re: Re: auto todo import?

by that do you mean import all new to-dos that are not linked?  i think that is what you mean and that would be my preference.  i'll have to check it out again on mine, as i don't recall it as problematic as suggested.  glad i'm not the programmer!  ; )
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: paulbcf 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 8:07 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: auto todo import?


  --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
  >
  > 
  >       I'm not convinced that the amount of work is worth it. What
  > benefits do we gain? :)
  > 
  >             jeff
  > 

  ---This wouldn't matter as much if "New From" worked correctly--
  Personally--I'd rather auto import all new to-do items into a 
  special list and then move them from there.--

  Desktop use is needed--and the crashes after new from don't make it 
  worth using the feature---

  If we could just import all "new to-dos" that would be great!

  Paul.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 5:25am
Subject: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...> wrote:
> See, now i respectfully disagree with the last part of your remarks,
as i find i'm just the opposite of what you suggest.  I don't link to
much within my desktop, and do all the linking within my pda.  Thus,
for me desktop is mainly just to add data quicker, as it still is
easier to enter lots of input or data on a desktop.  I find i use my
desktop more as the backup system to my calendaring/outline/phone
programs (which could change a bit with the new desktop system on the
way).  Thus, i create most on the pda, and then if i have a lot of
data to enter i go to my desktop for faster entry (even with the pda
keyboard i use occasionally).  And of course, i use the desktop for
printing as that seems to almost be a given with the crappy pda
printers).  

HUH?! "respectfully disagree"?

I have a little trouble understanding how you say you wish to disagree
and then say *exactly* what I said was true.

Your points:
(1) You don't link on the desktop (all on PDA)
(2) You use the DT to *add* lists (or add *to* them)
(3) Small lists you create on the HH
(4) You use the DT mostly as a backup.

I said (see below again):
(1) You *can't* link on the DT (hence I don't, nor can anyone)
(2) I use DT to add data and create lists
(3) especially large ones... (implying I create small ones on HH)
(4) I said its unlikely (impractical) most work will be done on DT.

Which all sums up to show we're pretty much in agreement and it is the
the *opposite* of choice # 3

<snip>
>   > 
>   >   o Mostly working in Desktop, use HH to look up data when I'm
away
>   from PC 
>   >   o Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only 
>   >   o New lists created on HH, as they grow larger, most work
will be
>   done on DT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is #3.  You already said you create lists on the DT because of
data entry, so that contradicts the first clause. Which is what I was
saying.  Are you saying that *adding* data is *most* of the work?  It
may be easier on the DT to do most of the data entry, but most of the
*work* is done with the HH (even though it may *seem* easy...thanks
Jeff), but most of what *I* consider work comes *after* I get
something on the list.

I suppose if all you're doing is creating *new* checklists for
everything you do, maybe.  But I get the impression most people here
actually schedule...and well that's a *snap* on the HH.  Adding items
in the middle of a meeting, again easy on the HH, a *pain* to write
down and transcribe to the DT.  You even say you use the DT mostly for
backup, so how is any of that the "most work on the DT"... thus falls
the second clause of #3...


>   >   o I don't know yet 
>   > 
>   > 
> 
>   I have to agree with the other desires for more options on this. I
>   would have voted for the opposite of 3...
> 
>   New lists created on DT (especially large projects), most work
done
>   on HH.
> 
>   I think this is specifically important since you had already said
that
>   linking of items to Outlook and other DTs would be limited if
present
>   at all, due to lack of "syncability".
> 
>   Thus how *could* one do most of the work on the DT?  Unless you
don't
>   link...which to me seems unlikely...
> 
>   Just my 2 cents...
> 
>   Ken
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 6:02am
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

i think our thoughts were transcending two separate wavelengths!  i thought by the way you initially made your statements that you inferred if the desktop was fully functional in the manner you desired much of your use would be there (on the desktop), but since there is not that choice functionally at this point in time you were forced to choose the one you did.  i was merely indicating the opposite, that even if the desktop were at full functionality as i desired, i would likely still use my handheld for most of the items...continue to link on pda even if ability existed on the desktop, add "to" lists on desktop but "add"/create/work-on lists on the pda, ALL lists i create on the pda, and would still use my desktop as mostly backup.  

on the current choice list, mine would actually be a bit more than choice #2 "Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only" as i would us DT sometimes to type voluminous entries quicker.  as for what is work, the "thinking" part is the most time-consuming part of my lists, not the entry itself, i.e., what list, what type, what details, what links, etc.  

and your comments "I suppose if all you're doing..." and "most people here actually...", made me smile, as it seems you took the comments personally for which there was no such intent.  this was more a philosophical type discussion on this end, above any personal level.  would be an interesting managerial training exercise to go back over our writings and see what was said and the reactions, etc.  ; )

since your response to my response leaves me now thoroughly confused, my question to clear up my confusion is as follows...would your responses change if the desktop were fully functional at this time as you desired?  (this is where i was differentiating...not in the reality as it is currently, but as to how it would be for me even when the desktop is fully functional in the future)

thanks for the interesting discussion!

kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kenclatham 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 10:25 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: New poll for shadow-discuss


  I have a little trouble understanding how you say you wish to disagree
  and then say *exactly* what I said was true.

  Your points:
  (1) You don't link on the desktop (all on PDA)
  (2) You use the DT to *add* lists (or add *to* them)
  (3) Small lists you create on the HH
  (4) You use the DT mostly as a backup.

  I said (see below again):
  (1) You *can't* link on the DT (hence I don't, nor can anyone)
  (2) I use DT to add data and create lists
  (3) especially large ones... (implying I create small ones on HH)
  (4) I said its unlikely (impractical) most work will be done on DT.

  Which all sums up to show we're pretty much in agreement and it is the
  the *opposite* of choice # 3

  <snip>
  >   > 
  >   >   o Mostly working in Desktop, use HH to look up data when I'm
  away
  >   from PC 
  >   >   o Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only 
  >   >   o New lists created on HH, as they grow larger, most work
  will be
  >   done on DT
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  This is #3.  You already said you create lists on the DT because of
  data entry, so that contradicts the first clause. Which is what I was
  saying.  Are you saying that *adding* data is *most* of the work?  It
  may be easier on the DT to do most of the data entry, but most of the
  *work* is done with the HH (even though it may *seem* easy...thanks
  Jeff), but most of what *I* consider work comes *after* I get
  something on the list.

  I suppose if all you're doing is creating *new* checklists for
  everything you do, maybe.  But I get the impression most people here
  actually schedule...and well that's a *snap* on the HH.  Adding items
  in the middle of a meeting, again easy on the HH, a *pain* to write
  down and transcribe to the DT.  You even say you use the DT mostly for
  backup, so how is any of that the "most work on the DT"... thus falls
  the second clause of #3...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: John Hatto  <jhatto@b...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 11:38am
Subject: Investigation Reports and a time field

I am keen to use Shadow for recording and analysing the evidence
surrounding industrial accidents and similar incidents (I have raised
before the question of using Shadow for Root Cause Analysis but have
found no others using Shadow for this).  

 

To record a whole series of events and data on an incident I need to
record the time each event started as well as the date.  I can not see
how to create a time of day field to do that.  I suppose there might be
a way of achieving this by linking but I want to be able to sort and
review data rapidly as well insert new information as it becomes
available. Also I may want to record time linked note about, for
example, what else was happening them, which may or may not relate to
this incident.

 

I appreciate this might have only limited appeal and I could make do
with various fudges but I assume it would be possible as an optional
field and hope Jeff might include it in his current plans.

 

Regards
John Hatto

  

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 0:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

On Tue, 28 May 2002, kenclatham wrote:

> Butting in, here...
> 
> I think this sounds good.  But what about an "auto-refresh" on first
> use after a hotsync?  Most of the time, that would be when new SP
> files would show up.  'Course you'd still need a manual method.

	Added to my non-scheduled list of things to build :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 0:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: auto todo import?

On Tue, 28 May 2002, paulbcf wrote:

> ---This wouldn't matter as much if "New From" worked correctly--
> Personally--I'd rather auto import all new to-do items into a 
> special list and then move them from there.--

	New From will get fixed and improved. An "import all new
todo" could be done. How shoudl that work? (I'd have to dso some tricks to
make it workable, but it shoudl be doable)

> Desktop use is needed--and the crashes after new from don't make it 
> worth using the feature---

	Crashes?

> If we could just import all "new to-dos" that would be great!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 0:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

On Mon, 27 May 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

<snip>
> that is done, I say spend LOTS of time on the desktop to make in sync
> perfectly and have similar attributes to the pda.  Then we have two
> awesome programs in the end instead of two that have signs of
> greatness but did not quite take it there.  This is what we wish would
> happen with all programmers and programs.  Jeff and a couple others in
> this market set the standards for greatness, so lets support them
> fully and strive for two awesome programs!
> 
> Just some of my thoughts this evening....

	Thanks for the kind words and continued support. I'd never have
been able to do it without everyone egging meon ;)  (And you kow, I never
planned for so many good suggestions to come in.. I figured I woudl have
had lots of time to work on the desktop ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 0:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: auto todo import?

On Mon, 27 May 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> by that do you mean import all new to-dos that are not linked?  i
> think that is what you mean and that would be my preference.  i'll
> have to check it out again on mine, as i don't recall it as
> problematic as suggested.  glad i'm not the programmer!  ; )

	Importing those "that are not linked" is not really
feasible. There isn't a way to know if something is linking to a ToDo item
or not (thogh if you have enabled the Append Origin, that can be a method
to do it, but since that is an option it is not dependable.. you coudl
turn it off at ay time). It is possible to build a "import everythign into
this list, since last time we did an import all new, exceptign ones wth
origin stamp". This woudl mean no New From (since that would have to cause
holes in the importing, right?)

		jeff

> kevin
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: paulbcf 
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 8:07 PM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: auto todo import?
> 
> 
>   --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>   >
>   > 
>   >       I'm not convinced that the amount of work is worth it. What
>   > benefits do we gain? :)
>   > 
>   >             jeff
>   > 
> 
>   ---This wouldn't matter as much if "New From" worked correctly--
>   Personally--I'd rather auto import all new to-do items into a 
>   special list and then move them from there.--
> 
>   Desktop use is needed--and the crashes after new from don't make it 
>   worth using the feature---
> 
>   If we could just import all "new to-dos" that would be great!
> 
>   Paul.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 0:20pm
Subject: Re: Investigation Reports and a time field

On Tue, 28 May 2002, John Hatto wrote:

> I am keen to use Shadow for recording and analysing the evidence
> surrounding industrial accidents and similar incidents (I have raised
> before the question of using Shadow for Root Cause Analysis but have
> found no others using Shadow for this).  
> 
> To record a whole series of events and data on an incident I need to
> record the time each event started as well as the date.  I can not see
> how to create a time of day field to do that.  I suppose there might be
> a way of achieving this by linking but I want to be able to sort and
> review data rapidly as well insert new information as it becomes
> available. Also I may want to record time linked note about, for
> example, what else was happening them, which may or may not relate to
> this incident.

	Shadow doesn't (yet) concern itself with "time of day", only the
date of the day itself. Myself, whenever I've needed to use time it weas
either for an alarm or like you, in a log. Alarms are done best via
linking. Logging?

	The Palm has a shortcut for inserting current date, or date and
time, or time. The shortcut symbol is a scrwewy one.. like a handwritten
"eye", but upside down. So its shortcut, d, t, s to get a date and time
stamp. Or shortcut, d, s to get a date stamp. I use this very
frequently.. just start an item "Accident with john, shortcut d t s" and
you've logged it in Shadow.

> I appreciate this might have only limited appeal and I could make do
> with various fudges but I assume it would be possible as an optional
> field and hope Jeff might include it in his current plans.

	Its a tough call; Shadow has a million uses.. but breaking them up
into checklists, outlines, todo lists, and project management type
lists.. none of them need time, except for alarms and logging. We care
about days "5 days for now, do this", more than "in an hour, do
this" (which is more a datebook operation).

	I think we're okay as we are now, but sometimes I consider time..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: egroy  <egroy@y...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 1:40pm
Subject: Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2002, egroy wrote:
> 
> > I was a happy user of Shadow for a long while. I am using it to 
track 
> > project activities as well as for personal projects / thought 
> > outlines / etc. 
> > 
> > My first problem started a few months ago, when my work project 
file 
> > and meeting notes file had become so large (> 400 entries each), 
it 
> > would take Shadow a while to open / close them, and also trying 
to 
> > find a record on the fly had become difficult. I tried to fix 
this by 
> > breaking these two files into a bunch of interlinked smaller 
files. 
> > This seemed to fix the problem for a while, but now there's about 
2 - 
> > 3 sec delay when I try do do any sort of file operations (switch 
from 
> > one category to another, open files, etc.) According to Jeff, 
this is 
> > due to the # of files in the system. I think the problem starts 
once 
> > the number of Shadow files exceeds 35 or so.
> 
> 	Nope; the number of Shadow files isn't relevant; its the 
number of
> files on your entire device. ie: Since you can have as many Shadow 
filesd
> as you want, of whatever name you want, Shadow must ask Palm OS to 
search
> for files of type "Shadow" (more or less). For the "ToDo" program, 
there
> is only "ToDoDB", so it just opens it.. but Shadow, in the file 
selection
> screen, must go through the Palm OS and look for any file of type
> "Shadow". As such, your time to scan the files is directly 
proportional to
> the number of files on your device, and how fragmented that listing 
is,
> etc.
> 
> 	So, if you have a new unit, with 100 Shadow files on it, 
fast. If
> you've got a unit you've hsd for a few years, and you've been 
trying new
> applciations on it every week for that time, and likely have 
thousands of
> files in your palm memory, than the directory search is slow.


According to Filez, I have only 203 files, including ROM.
I have 4.5mb out of 8 mb still free. I run at 28MHz, 37MHz for 
Shadow, at 250% over Palm IIIe (Benchmark 2). Shadow was the only 
application giving me this problem (at 45 files), and the problem 
seems to have gone away once I blew away 12 files.


> 
> 	Nothign I can easily do about it; I can cache the file 
listing,
> right, in a file, so that instead of scanning memory, I just read 
the file
> listing. This is cool and works fine.. until you send up files from 
the
> desktop, or from beaming, or the like, or reinstall your unit, or 
things
> out of scope. At which time the cache can be invalidated, and then 
you
> start wondering where your files are.. so I'd need to include a
> "Refresh" button to refresh the cache. And then get lots of 
questions.
> 
> 	Actually, fighting the above argument is something I didn't 
think
> of; a preference to enable a cache. Enabling the pref woudl make a 
warning
> box asking "are you sure?", so you know darned well what your'e 
going
> into. If you say yes, I can live on the cache, and you can push a 
Refresh
> button to rescan then.
> 
> 	That'd be pretty fast.
> 
> 	Hows that sounds?
> 
> > I can reduce the # of files by using Datebk5 + Megawiki + 
Supernames +
> > Memos for smaller projects. However, if I can't use Shadow for 
every
> > project, what's the point of using it at all ? Using different 
tools
> > to do the same tasks is a poor practice.
> 
> 	Shadow is not the problem; I've got 150 Shadow files in a 
dozen
> categories, and its fast as lightning -- I trim the other useless 
files in
> memory to keep other programs from spewing out crap :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: DedePol  <kmurray@m...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 1:44pm
Subject: Attack of the item clones

I find myself spending a lot of time pruning my ShadowPlan list of 
duplicate items after synchronisation. Rather than replace a changed 
item, it seems to add the changed item as a new entry, keeping the 
old one at the same time. It also duplicates the parent entry as 
well.

I originally thought this was because I was synchronising across two 
machines. I stopped synchronising on one, but I still found 
duplicates. I'm hoping there might be a setting that I can change to 
avoid duplication.

I like the versatility and responsiveness of ShadowPlan, but I'm 
finding Progect and ThoughtManager more stable across different 
machines. I'd really like to persist with ShadowPlan.

Kevin
__________________________________________________

Forecast for Melbourne Issued at 1625 on Tuesday the 28th of May 2002
A local shower or two tonight. Morning fog or drizzle patches 
clearing to a fine although cloudy day. Light southwest to southerly 
wind. 
Min 8     Max 16

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 1:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow slowdown - any ideas ?

On Tue, 28 May 2002, egroy wrote:

> According to Filez, I have only 203 files, including ROM. I have 4.5mb
> out of 8 mb still free. I run at 28MHz, 37MHz for Shadow, at 250% over
> Palm IIIe (Benchmark 2). Shadow was the only application giving me
> this problem (at 45 files), and the problem seems to have gone away
> once I blew away 12 files.

	Hmm. Perhaps you're onto something. I'll check.. since Shadow is
sorting the files (into alphabetical listing), perhaps the sorting is
taking too long (rather, the sorted inserts). Theres tricks ne can do to
improve insertion speed, so I'll note it down to look into.

	Freeing up 12 files.. did it suddenly get faster? Is there a
threshhold of slowness in the OS, I wonder? :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 1:55pm
Subject: Re: Attack of the item clones

On Tue, 28 May 2002, DedePol wrote:

> I find myself spending a lot of time pruning my ShadowPlan list of 
> duplicate items after synchronisation. Rather than replace a changed 
> item, it seems to add the changed item as a new entry, keeping the 
> old one at the same time. It also duplicates the parent entry as 
> well.

	Multiple desktop or single desktop syncing?

> I originally thought this was because I was synchronising across two
> machines. I stopped synchronising on one, but I still found
> duplicates. I'm hoping there might be a setting that I can change to
> avoid duplication.

	If syncing on one machine, duplicates only occur where you have
changed trhe item on both sides (handheld and desktop). Changes can
cascade however.. if you change a very deep item,. it may cause change sin
items above, and then those coudl duplicate if you've changed them on the
desktop as well. (ie: Remember, a %age change in a deep item causes all
above items to dirty as well)

> I like the versatility and responsiveness of ShadowPlan, but I'm
> finding Progect and ThoughtManager more stable across different
> machines. I'd really like to persist with ShadowPlan.

	ITs give and take; Shadows desktop is pretty young; the TM guys
have spent considerable more time on their desktop than I have, and I'v
spent much of my time building my desktop to be cross platform (for MAc
and Unix, though ghose are not yet out). So Bonsai and TM have better
desktops for the time being. They are certainly less functional and less
stable on the handheld, where I have spent my time mostly. Progect is
pretty good for the buck (being free), but it certainly has stability
issues for a lot of people, so don't get me started ;)

	I will be revisiting the desktop and conduit soon; there will be
many significant alterations to how syncing is done, to make it faster,
more reliable, eliminate duplciates except where necessary, and fix a
couple of issues. (The duplicates are there to protect you, mind you,
thoguh it perhaps is a little over-careful. But rest assured, in the
single machien sync, those duplicates are because the items *Are
different* and it is protecting you)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 2:01pm
Subject: Auto update notifier?

Would folks want the conduit to check my site for new Shadow
updates and notify you if they are available? Its a little work, but could
be added to my long todo list :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: mahnig  <mahnig@y...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 2:04pm
Subject: Feature request: use Datebk5-template OR link to datebk entry

Hi,

first of all, thanks for a great product (I am a registered user ;-)

I am using Datebk5 icons and colors a lot to have a better overview over my appointments etc. But when creating appointments from Shadow, there is sadly no support. So I have two suggestions, one of these two would be sufficient for my needs ;-)

a) The user would set up a special template in Datebk5, say "Shadow appointment", and you would use that template entry to create the new appointment. In this way, colors, category and icons could be created.

or better yet

b) Create appointments from datebk5 and have the possibility to link to an existing datebook entry (this would be a benefit to everyone, not just to datebk5 users).

Greetings,

Thilo

From: Kenneth S. Rhee  <polymath@m...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 2:07pm
Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?

If it's not much trouble, that would be a time saver for a lot of people.

However, it might be better if you make that optional so that people who want it can turn it on.
--
 Kenneth S. Rhee, polymath@m... on 5/28/2002


On Tue, 28 May 2002 10:01:54 -0400 (EDT), Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>
>    Would folks want the conduit to check my site for new Shadow
>updates and notify you if they are available? Its a little work, but
>could be added to my long todo list :)
>
>        jeff
>
>--
>"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
>micro circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I
>mean, sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate
>he is?" -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
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>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: shadow-discuss-
>unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Feature request: use Datebk5-template OR link to datebk entry

On Tue, 28 May 2002, mahnig wrote:

> first of all, thanks for a great product (I am a registered user ;-)

	Your welcome, and thanks for enjoying the product :)

> I am using Datebk5 icons and colors a lot to have a better overview
> over my appointments etc. But when creating appointments from Shadow,
> there is sadly no support. So I have two suggestions, one of these two
> would be sufficient for my needs ;-)
> 
> b) Create appointments from datebk5 and have the possibility to link
> to an existing datebook entry (this would be a benefit to everyone,
> not just to datebk5 users).

	See "New From"; you can "pick up" and link to existing ToDo and
Datebook items. Also see the Link Manager for silly amounts of fun :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:06pm
Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Kenneth S. Rhee wrote:

> If it's not much trouble, that would be a time saver for a lot of people.
> 
> However, it might be better if you make that optional so that people
> who want it can turn it on. --

	Yeah, for sure. It coccurs to me since I get a lot of email from
people asking why I don't email them with updates.. they don't know about
shadow-announce (and dont' know about it because they didn't fully read
their welcome letter, which I understand.. you're excited, you skip to the
code and get the goods :). So I thought an auto detector could be an easy
way to let more people stay up to date, without them signing up to a
mailing list.

	We'll see :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?

Only if it's an option.  I really dislike programs hopping onto the Internet
without permission or notice.

Ling

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 4:01 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Auto update notifier?


>
> Would folks want the conduit to check my site for new Shadow
> updates and notify you if they are available? Its a little work, but could
> be added to my long todo list :)
>
> jeff
>

From: Samuel J. Radcliffe  <samr@g...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:38pm
Subject: RE: Auto update notifier?

I'm with those who say optional only. And put it at the bottom of your long
list ;-)

...Sam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 9:02 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Auto update notifier?
>
>
>
> 	Would folks want the conduit to check my site for new Shadow
> updates and notify you if they are available? Its a little work, but could
> be added to my long todo list :)
>
> 		jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:43pm
Subject: RE: Auto update notifier?

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Samuel J. Radcliffe wrote:

> I'm with those who say optional only. And put it at the bottom of your long
> list ;-)

	"Of course" on both counts :)  It'd have to be built to work only
if you're already online or something. It'd be really annoying to have it
dialing your modem when you need ot sync in ahurry :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: eric_hart  <ehart@a...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 8:27pm
Subject: Can't get synch to desktop going

Hi folks,

I am evaluating ShadowPlan and like it so far.  I installed the 
desktop to check out.  I never see files to open in the desktop 
(always just a blank list).  

I did mark a file on the Palm side with the "sync" checkbox (under 
List | Preferences) and have resynced multiple times.  When right-
clicking the hotsync icon, I choose "custom" and see that Shadow is 
set to "sync" so it appears the conduit is present.  Viewing the 
synclogs, the handheld log shows "Shadow - OK", but the PC log 
doesn't mention Shadow at all.

This is a Sony Clie S-320 running Palm OS 4.0.  The connection is 
USB to my Compaq laptop running Windows XP.  Shadow Plan is not yet 
registered.

Any help appreciated.

- Eric

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 8:32pm
Subject: Re: Can't get synch to desktop going

The sync method for unregistered desktop is pretty restrictive in that it's
difficult to tell just which list it will try to sync. If you mark all of
your lists to sync on the hand-held, you will get one list to look at on
the desktop after your next sync. Hope this helps.

Scott

From: eric_hart  <ehart@a...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 8:58pm
Subject: Re: Can't get synch to desktop going

Hi Scott,

That worked.  I deleted from the handheld all but the list I was 
interested in syncing, and it did sync.

Thanks!

- Eric

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> The sync method for unregistered desktop is pretty restrictive in 
that it's
> difficult to tell just which list it will try to sync. If you mark 
all of
> your lists to sync on the hand-held, you will get one list to look 
at on
> the desktop after your next sync. Hope this helps.
> 
> Scott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue May 28, 2002 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Can't get synch to desktop going

On Tue, 28 May 2002, eric_hart wrote:

> I am evaluating ShadowPlan and like it so far.  I installed the 
> desktop to check out.  I never see files to open in the desktop 
> (always just a blank list).  

	You have to enable the handheld files to sync. Due to the demo not
liking to sync very much, you'll probably just want to enable sync in all
your lists to make sure that one syncs each time (the one chosen is
random).

> I did mark a file on the Palm side with the "sync" checkbox (under
> List | Preferences) and have resynced multiple times.  When right-
> clicking the hotsync icon, I choose "custom" and see that Shadow is
> set to "sync" so it appears the conduit is present.  Viewing the
> synclogs, the handheld log shows "Shadow - OK", but the PC log doesn't
> mention Shadow at all.

	In demo mode, it choses to examine only one file to see if it
wishes ot sync; if it picks the wrong one, and you didnt' set it to sync,
its done. I will be changing it to always sync at least one file, but its
onyl set to check once right now, for various reasons.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 0:30am
Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?

i would say no to this suggestion if it slows the conduit each time during syncing, especially since you do have the automatic notification update by email don't you?  if you do add it, since it takes a little work as you put it, i'd place it near the bottom of the to do list and even after desktop upgrade!  my thoughts.
kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 7:01 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Auto update notifier?



        Would folks want the conduit to check my site for new Shadow
  updates and notify you if they are available? Its a little work, but could
  be added to my long todo list :)

              jeff

  --



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 0:32am
Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?

how about instead putting all on the shadow-announce mail list when purchase is made unless they opt out, as that list generates so few emails it shouldn't upset anyone.  another thought.
kevin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 0:54am
Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> i would say no to this suggestion if it slows the conduit each time
> during syncing, especially since you do have the automatic
> notification update by email don't you?  if you do add it, since it
> takes a little work as you put it, i'd place it near the bottom of the
> to do list and even after desktop upgrade!  my thoughts.

	For sure. Bottom of the pile. I just like to keep ideas in the
pile .. otherwise they're forgotten.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 0:55am
Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> how about instead putting all on the shadow-announce mail list when
> purchase is made unless they opt out, as that list generates so few
> emails it shouldn't upset anyone.  another thought.

	I believe opt-in is not the Right Thing to do [tm], and opt-out is
difficult. I'd call it spam.. low volume, but spam
nonetheless. (Unsolicited email)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: paulbcf  <ext555@p...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 1:52am
Subject: Re: auto todo import?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	New From will get fixed and improved. An "import all new
> todo" could be done. How shoudl that work? (I'd have to dso some 
tricks to
> make it workable, but it shoudl be doable)
> 
> > Desktop use is needed--and the crashes after new from don't make 
it 
> > worth using the feature---
> 
> 	Crashes?

---

Crashes was referring to the palm app using new from, not shadow dt.
I use windows palm dtop at office to enter new items --tried to 
use "new from" to bring them into shadow.---If new from get's fixed--
auto import new todo's won't be that big a priority.

But if it's on your list---I'd say the way you described it--pulling 
them all into a separate "special list" would be fine.

I usually copy items into more than one list anyway--so having a 
sort of "in-box" list would work well.

Thanks for all you do Jeff!


Paul

From: paulbcf  <ext555@p...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 2:03am
Subject: Re: auto todo import?

Well the "new from" seems to struggle with different data sets--

--I would think auto import would mean automatically linking all new 
to-do's to a file .   This type auto import is a variation of the 
feature in Life Balance.

but I wouldn't be looking to tell what categories to go where--just 
a feature that could let Shadow pull in all new to-do's that have 
been created in the stock app (or via desktop conduit--other than 
shadow) 

Shadow is the best task manager around--but limiting my input of new 
items  to handheld only wasn't working. 

just my .02

Paul 



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 27 May 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:
> 
> > by that do you mean import all new to-dos that are not linked?  i
> > think that is what you mean and that would be my preference.  
i'll
> > have to check it out again on mine, as i don't recall it as
> > problematic as suggested.  glad i'm not the programmer!  ; )
> 
> 	Importing those "that are not linked" is not really
> feasible. There isn't a way to know if something is linking to a 
ToDo item
> or not (thogh if you have enabled the Append Origin, that can be a 
method
> to do it, but since that is an option it is not dependable.. you 
coudl
> turn it off at ay time). It is possible to build a "import 
everythign into
> this list, since last time we did an import all new, exceptign 
ones wth
> origin stamp". This woudl mean no New From (since that would have 
to cause
> holes in the importing, right?)
>

From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 2:11am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 512

I think somebody mentioned increasing internal memory as a way of getting 
Shadow to work like lightning . . .  How would I find a place to send my HH 
(visor prism) to get the internal memory increased from 8-16 megs?  How 
long does it take (How long do I need to part with and live without my 
prism?  ARggh--is it even possible!?)

thx

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DedePol  <kmurray@m...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 3:18am
Subject: Re: Attack of the item clones

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

Yes, this explains the problem well. Best of luck making a fine 
program work on and off the big screen.

> 	If syncing on one machine, duplicates only occur where you 
have
> changed trhe item on both sides (handheld and desktop). Changes can
> cascade however.. if you change a very deep item,. it may cause 
change sin
> items above, and then those coudl duplicate if you've changed them 
on the
> desktop as well. (ie: Remember, a %age change in a deep item causes 
all
> above items to dirty as well)

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 5:57am
Subject: Re: New poll for shadow-discuss

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...> wrote:
> i think our thoughts were transcending two separate wavelengths!  i
thought by the way you initially made your statements that you
inferred if the desktop was fully functional in the manner you desired
much of your use would be there (on the desktop), but since there is
not that choice functionally at this point in time you were forced to
choose the one you did.  i was merely indicating the opposite, that
even if the desktop were at full functionality as i desired, i would
likely still use my handheld for most of the items...continue to link
on pda even if ability existed on the desktop, add "to" lists on
desktop but "add"/create/work-on lists on the pda, ALL lists i create
on the pda, and would still use my desktop as mostly backup.  
> 
> on the current choice list, mine would actually be a bit more than
choice #2 "Mostly working in HH, using DT to print only" as i would us
DT sometimes to type voluminous entries quicker.  as for what is work,
the "thinking" part is the most time-consuming part of my lists, not
the entry itself, i.e., what list, what type, what details, what
links, etc.  
> 

I'm not sure (even after rereading it) where you pick up the "if it
were true" part... nonetheless...

I think we basically work in much the same manner and all this is much
ado about nothing...

> and your comments "I suppose if all you're doing..." and "most
people here actually...", made me smile, as it seems you took the
comments personally for which there was no such intent.  this was more
a philosophical type discussion on this end, above any personal level.
 would be an interesting managerial training exercise to go back over
our writings and see what was said and the reactions, etc.  ; )
>

I'm afraid you hit one of my touchy spots... too many people I was
once associated with (Death Star days...) often didn't listen to a
thing I said, then  turned around only to state my words as if they
were a "differing" opinion.  That *always* gets my goat... 

 
> since your response to my response leaves me now thoroughly
confused, my question to clear up my confusion is as follows...would
your responses change if the desktop were fully functional at this
time as you desired?  (this is where i was differentiating...not in
the reality as it is currently, but as to how it would be for me even
when the desktop is fully functional in the future)
> 

No, I don't think it would.  I would still do most of my work on the
HH and any substantial data entry on the DT.  Simply, I think, because
of the larger screen on the DT during entry :)  (I, too, have a HH
keyboard which is useful, but less than I'd hoped)

I also don't hold much hope for the ease of use of the DT ever
matching the HH (for data manipulation, not entry).  The direct pen
interface has so much more control physically.  I think the more
direct the interface, the less you have to concentrate on the
mechanics, freeing your mind for what it is you're really trying to
accomplish...

<snipped own emotional ravings>

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 3:32pm
Subject: Shadow Plan and GTD my setup

Hi folks, thanks for the amazing post re: implementing GTD and a 
special thanks to Tomrod(act) and Ken(dbk5) all very informative and 
rewarding. Well here it goes: 

[If your a student who works full time you might find this 
information useful also]

I ordered DA books but have not received it yet so pardon my usage of 
Next Action and Current Action if it doesn't fit DA's mold. alright 
then.

Applications used:  DBK5, ActNames, Shadow, Mega Wiki,  Mega 
Launcher, Crypto Pad, Quick Memo, Bug Me(all shareware except Crypto 
and MegaWiki)

All my todo's and appt are handled and sorted thru Shadow, where I 
highlight and filter by priority(thanks Jeff M.)

My main list is called Main Task List
with the following parents:
Next Action
Current Action
Finance & Bills
Home & Family
Physics
DAT Study Schedule
Clie & GTD
General Sometime Maybe
Master Input Template

Under Next Action, Current Action, F & B, H & F, Cie & GTD I have the 
following children
This Week, This Month, This Quarter, all the main setups are under 
Custom(as you know you can cng on command) but I resort it under the 
Note View or Flat View it just easier on the eyes and I use bullets 
for everything,  it looks awesome, I highlight priority with the red 
colors and  bamm it just shines thru my Clie 610C, let me get a grip 
though , alright where were we, ah ok.. So my Shadow MTL looks very 
sharp, I supplement SP with Font Hack with Lubak's fonts, amazing, 
crisp and clear, I use Handera 18B on the standard and hr standard 
with the symbols allocated properly, refer to his site for 
instruction, I either link thru Shadow's link system or MW depending 
on the situation. 

Ok onto DBK5 and ActionNames, you may ask yourselves why both, well 
why not, DBK5 has some features that are simply incredible, custom 
views, eg. Birthday, Class Schedule, Dat Study Plan, etc, etc. I have 
configured my hard buttoms the following way: the datebook=DBK5, 
address=ActNms, todo=Shadow, memo=Quick Memo or Crypto Pad, either 
or.  On DBK5, I use the view that shows the week,biweekly, and 3-day 
view as my startup view since I don't like ActNms comparable view, 
grid 1 and grid 2. I also use the List view all my categories showing 
for both appts/todos, all fonts are black and bold, very clear(I use 
Lubak's OS5 fonts here) so far so good right, ok, I like Dbk5 
month/year views very nice to get a quick glance at things eg, 
vacations or whatever you put with bold or big fonts.   Action Names, 
it simply is amazing as well, not so hardcore as DBK5 but nontheless 
very good, what convinced me was there List View, I simply love it, I 
find it quick, user friendly and outstanding  g. interface, here I 
don't use [1] view for what, I have the dbk5 list view already 
configured.   

From Shadow, let say I have to input something really quick and I 
don't have to time to sort into the correct list here comes Master 
Input Template: I write it  there or sometime if I'm on the go I use 
Bug Me with an alarm for a couple hours so I have to time to advance 
any ideas or thoughts that I wrote down quickly, works very well cuz 
I dont' have to sort immediately, once I have a few time I quickly 
use Shadows Multi Clip function to paste where I want eg. Current 
Actoin, this week, this month, this quarter, whatever and when I'm 
ready to take action bamm, I move it over to Next Action with a set 
date for a todo or a set time for an appt./meeting, Forgot to mention 
I use the same icon collection for DBK5 and ActNames, same todo's, 
same everything, so its all neat as can be, absolutely love it... If 
I want to use a memo I use Crypto pad and then store it with Quick 
Memo(their newest version imports directly from Crypto or Memo, same 
thing, so its got a nice windows interface and its easy to retrieve 
any memos, eg. Registration Codes, for all the apps, Personal, Work, 
School, you get the picture..

For a launcher, I own Silver and Mega Launcher, I prefer ML its quick 
and its GUI is amazing I don't need little aliens, polar bears, etc. 
etc for icons, if you do, then its fine, that's the underlying theme 
of GTD I think, you use what you like. I've tested YiShow its ok but 
they need to iron a lot of things out before I purchase it... You may 
ask why so much shareware apps and again why not, the $$ is 
insignificant to the  productivity one gets when you have  a GTD 
setup that works for you..no complaints here, I'm a happy customer,  
not to mention I use PiDirect II, Backup Buddy Desktop and VFS of 
course, just in case, we all know the initial input of time once 
you've configured all your options and they're just right and its 
just sucks when you have to do  a hard reset, I have two Memory 
Sticks a 64mb and a 16mb(strictly for backup purposes)... What else I 
prefer Teal Master over X-Master just because I can configure the 
setting indepently as profiles, eg: Mega Wicki Setup, Linker Setup, 
etc. I use Tealmembrain for hack stability,still a bit new to me but 
its helped, I increased the stack size to 2500 bytes, no more crashes 
due to hacks interfering, easylaunch, tech sounds, afterburner, find 
hack, select hack, symbol hack, grasspeedy.

I also own Think DB 2.2 where I have the date book plugin, todo 
plugin, and memo plugin, here I keep track of my Shadowing 
experiences at the diff. dental offices, I also have one for Ideas, 
and an exercise tinybyte that its awesome.

Well gotta go, I hope this helped someone that's a new to this  and 
you can get some ideas....

See ya later and thanks again for all the good tips.

From: Steve O.  <misterclean1@e...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 5:47pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 513

Jeff, don't waste your time installing an auto-update feature.  It would be
nice, but it shouldn't be high priority.  I think we're all smart enough to
check your site regularly for updates -- which isn't even necessary, since
any new update is announced and discussed in these discussion lists.

----- Original Message -----
From: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Digest Number 513


>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 6 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Can't get synch to desktop going
>            From: "eric_hart" <ehart@a...>
>       2. Re: Can't get synch to desktop going
>            From: smasters@a...
>       3. Re: Can't get synch to desktop going
>            From: "eric_hart" <ehart@a...>
>       4. Re: Can't get synch to desktop going
>            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
>       5. Re: Auto update notifier?
>            From: "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...>
>       6. Re: Auto update notifier?
>            From: "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:27:19 -0000
>    From: "eric_hart" <ehart@a...>
> Subject: Can't get synch to desktop going
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am evaluating ShadowPlan and like it so far.  I installed the
> desktop to check out.  I never see files to open in the desktop
> (always just a blank list).
>
> I did mark a file on the Palm side with the "sync" checkbox (under
> List | Preferences) and have resynced multiple times.  When right-
> clicking the hotsync icon, I choose "custom" and see that Shadow is
> set to "sync" so it appears the conduit is present.  Viewing the
> synclogs, the handheld log shows "Shadow - OK", but the PC log
> doesn't mention Shadow at all.
>
> This is a Sony Clie S-320 running Palm OS 4.0.  The connection is
> USB to my Compaq laptop running Windows XP.  Shadow Plan is not yet
> registered.
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> - Eric
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 15:32:05 -0500
>    From: smasters@a...
> Subject: Re: Can't get synch to desktop going
>
>
> The sync method for unregistered desktop is pretty restrictive in that
it's
> difficult to tell just which list it will try to sync. If you mark all of
> your lists to sync on the hand-held, you will get one list to look at on
> the desktop after your next sync. Hope this helps.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
>    Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:58:38 -0000
>    From: "eric_hart" <ehart@a...>
> Subject: Re: Can't get synch to desktop going
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> That worked.  I deleted from the handheld all but the list I was
> interested in syncing, and it did sync.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Eric
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> >
> > The sync method for unregistered desktop is pretty restrictive in
> that it's
> > difficult to tell just which list it will try to sync. If you mark
> all of
> > your lists to sync on the hand-held, you will get one list to look
> at on
> > the desktop after your next sync. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Scott
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
>    Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:07:50 -0400 (EDT)
>    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Subject: Re: Can't get synch to desktop going
>
> On Tue, 28 May 2002, eric_hart wrote:
>
> > I am evaluating ShadowPlan and like it so far.  I installed the
> > desktop to check out.  I never see files to open in the desktop
> > (always just a blank list).
>
> You have to enable the handheld files to sync. Due to the demo not
> liking to sync very much, you'll probably just want to enable sync in all
> your lists to make sure that one syncs each time (the one chosen is
> random).
>
> > I did mark a file on the Palm side with the "sync" checkbox (under
> > List | Preferences) and have resynced multiple times.  When right-
> > clicking the hotsync icon, I choose "custom" and see that Shadow is
> > set to "sync" so it appears the conduit is present.  Viewing the
> > synclogs, the handheld log shows "Shadow - OK", but the PC log doesn't
> > mention Shadow at all.
>
> In demo mode, it choses to examine only one file to see if it
> wishes ot sync; if it picks the wrong one, and you didnt' set it to sync,
> its done. I will be changing it to always sync at least one file, but its
> onyl set to check once right now, for various reasons.
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
>    Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:30:08 -0700
>    From: "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...>
> Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?
>
> i would say no to this suggestion if it slows the conduit each time during
syncing, especially since you do have the automatic notification update by
email don't you?  if you do add it, since it takes a little work as you put
it, i'd place it near the bottom of the to do list and even after desktop
upgrade!  my thoughts.
> kevin
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy life!
> ------------------------------
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jeff Mitchell
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 7:01 AM
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Auto update notifier?
>
>
>
>         Would folks want the conduit to check my site for new Shadow
>   updates and notify you if they are available? Its a little work, but
could
>   be added to my long todo list :)
>
>               jeff
>
>   --
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
>    Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 17:32:26 -0700
>    From: "Kevin Giberson" <kevin@g...>
> Subject: Re: Auto update notifier?
>
> how about instead putting all on the shadow-announce mail list when
purchase is made unless they opt out, as that list generates so few emails
it shouldn't upset anyone.  another thought.
> kevin
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 513

But if you DO want to do auto-something, how about an auto-save
as soon as a file is opened, to make sure the current link status
is captured and the todo's can be deleted.

Quoting Steve O. (misterclean1@e...):
> Jeff, don't waste your time installing an auto-update feature.  It would be
> nice, but it shouldn't be high priority.  I think we're all smart enough to
> check your site regularly for updates -- which isn't even necessary, since
> any new update is announced and discussed in these discussion lists.
>

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 7:01pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 512

peggy, here is the link with all the info.:

http://www.palmpilotupgrade.com/

sent mine there fedex and back the same way, and with work on it and turnaround time, it was less than a week for return back to me.  was well worth the money, as i won't be upgrading for quite some time now!  hope that helps.
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peggy Darling 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 7:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Digest Number 512


  I think somebody mentioned increasing internal memory as a way of getting 
  Shadow to work like lightning . . .  How would I find a place to send my HH 
  (visor prism) to get the internal memory increased from 8-16 megs?  How 
  long does it take (How long do I need to part with and live without my 
  prism?  ARggh--is it even possible!?)

  thx




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 7:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: auto todo import?

>But if it's on your list---I'd say the way you described it--pulling
>them all into a separate "special list" would be fine.
>
>I usually copy items into more than one list anyway--so having a
>sort of "in-box" list would work well.
>

This sounds nice, but I think I would really miss the ability to specify the 
list as was I think part of the original auto import discussion.

[[[first few letters of filename]]]Todo title     --> entered into 
datebook/todo app, then sucked into that file when opened, and the filename 
part stripped out.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed May 29, 2002 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 513

On Wed, 29 May 2002, Learned wrote:

> But if you DO want to do auto-something, how about an auto-save
> as soon as a file is opened, to make sure the current link status
> is captured and the todo's can be deleted.

	Hmm? What do you mean?

		jeff

> 
> Quoting Steve O. (misterclean1@e...):
> > Jeff, don't waste your time installing an auto-update feature.  It would be
> > nice, but it shouldn't be high priority.  I think we're all smart enough to
> > check your site regularly for updates -- which isn't even necessary, since
> > any new update is announced and discussed in these discussion lists.
> > 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Stewart Midwinter  <stewart@m...>
Date: Thu May 30, 2002 5:08am
Subject: Bug with ToDo Plus

Recently I noticed that occasionally my HandEra 330 would crash and require a soft reset.  The consistent pattern seems to be: I've turned off the unit with it running Shadow.  Some time later, a ToDo Plus alarm goes off, and the unit crashes.  Hard to say whether it is Shadow that crashes, or ToDo Plus, but prior to installing Shadow I didn't notice any crashes when ToDo Plus alarms went off.

regards,
Stewart.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu May 30, 2002 1:37pm
Subject: Re: Bug with ToDo Plus

On Wed, 29 May 2002, Stewart Midwinter wrote:

> Recently I noticed that occasionally my HandEra 330 would crash and
> require a soft reset.  The consistent pattern seems to be: I've turned
> off the unit with it running Shadow.  Some time later, a ToDo Plus
> alarm goes off, and the unit crashes.  Hard to say whether it is
> Shadow that crashes, or ToDo Plus, but prior to installing Shadow I
> didn't notice any crashes when ToDo Plus alarms went off.

	Any hacks running? I've been using ToDoPlus for years, withotu a
hitch (though I dont' use it much anymore except for receiving alarms, due
to Shadow ;)

	A Handera has plenty of memory, so unless your Shado wlist is
*huge* (megabyte?) or with piles of attached notes that are large and
"expanded" (lots and lots of them), you shoudl not have memory
issues. Tried upgrading ToDo Plus?

	OR do you have lots of hacks (unralted ones) chewing into your
free memory pool or the like?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: casonbang  <newstuff@i...>
Date: Fri May 31, 2002 6:23pm
Subject: Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?

I was just wondering how much use anyone gets out of the desktop?  If you use it a lot, what do you primarily do with it?

I find the desktop pretty unusable in its current state since you can't move items around by drag & drop or by cutting and pasting.  I do a lot of resorting, since I find it easier to get it down first and then decide where an item best fits in the hierarchy.  If I make an item in the wrong spot right now I have to delete it and start over.  Or sync to the handheld and drag & drop there.  Is moving items on the desktop side already built into the conduit but just needs a desktop interface for it?  If so then I beg, beg, beg you to add at the very least cutting & pasting.  According to the quick reference moving items is "coming very soon!"  :)

I tried Bonsai desktop and even though it's a little more mature, it's really tough to work with.  Some functions are pretty unintuitive, like demoting/promoting items with the keyboard, setting an item's properties and note, setting list options vs global options, etc.  The only thing it did good was drag & drop. :)

Thanks.

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri May 31, 2002 6:34pm
Subject: Re: Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?

i use the desktop right now ONLY when i have lots of data to enter into it...like an outline of various witness testimony on topics, etc. for my use...otherwise, i use the handheld.  even with lots of data entry on the desktop, i have found the hierarchy does not sync exactly to the handheld, and thus i still have to go in and move items back around on the handheld.  in time it will be there for us to use forever!
kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: casonbang 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:23 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?


  I was just wondering how much use anyone gets out of the desktop?  If you use it a lot, what do you primarily do with it?

  I find the desktop pretty unusable in its current state since you can't move items around by drag & drop or by cutting and pasting.  I do a lot of resorting, since I find it easier to get it down first and then decide where an item best fits in the hierarchy.  If I make an item in the wrong spot right now I have to delete it and start over.  Or sync to the handheld and drag & drop there.  Is moving items on the desktop side already built into the conduit but just needs a desktop interface for it?  If so then I beg, beg, beg you to add at the very least cutting & pasting.  According to the quick reference moving items is "coming very soon!"  :)

  I tried Bonsai desktop and even though it's a little more mature, it's really tough to work with.  Some functions are pretty unintuitive, like demoting/promoting items with the keyboard, setting an item's properties and note, setting list options vs global options, etc.  The only thing it did good was drag & drop. :)

  Thanks.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri May 31, 2002 6:36pm
Subject: Re: Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?

Casonbang asked:

I was just wondering how much use anyone gets out of the desktop?  If you
use it a lot, what do you primarily do with it?


I have actually got quite a bit of use out of it. While no one would call
this full-featured yet, it does a couple of things very well:
1.  Cutting and pasting from web pages or other electronic media is very
helpful. I have quite a few notes that are very long, and would have taken
an eternity to grafiti in.

2.  Entering lots of text. Nothing beats a full size keyboard and 19"
monitor. THen I sync and move stuff around in a flash on the HH.

So I feel I have gotten my money's worth, and knowing Jeff, somewhere down
the road this will blow the doors off other desktop outliners. Just my .02.

Scott

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri May 31, 2002 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?

Like the idea of cutting and pasting from web pages!
Thanks.
Kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: smasters@a... 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?



  Casonbang asked:

  I was just wondering how much use anyone gets out of the desktop?  If you
  use it a lot, what do you primarily do with it?


  I have actually got quite a bit of use out of it. While no one would call
  this full-featured yet, it does a couple of things very well:
  1.  Cutting and pasting from web pages or other electronic media is very
  helpful. I have quite a few notes that are very long, and would have taken
  an eternity to grafiti in.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri May 31, 2002 7:47pm
Subject: Re: Does anyone use Shadow Desktop?

On Fri, 31 May 2002, casonbang wrote:

> I was just wondering how much use anyone gets out of the desktop?  If
> you use it a lot, what do you primarily do with it?

	A lot of people do, judging by the volume of email I get about it
:) Theres a lot of different people.. some who just print, some who just
data enter, some who want to bring things into Word (via save-as-html),
etc. But as you say, its not really useful as an outliner.. since it can't
move things, yet.

> I find the desktop pretty unusable in its current state since you
> can't move items around by drag & drop or by cutting and pasting.  I
> do a lot of resorting, since I find it easier to get it down first and
> then decide where an item best fits in the hierarchy.  If I make an
> item in the wrong spot right now I have to delete it and start over.  
> Or sync to the handheld and drag & drop there.  Is moving items on the
> desktop side already built into the conduit but just needs a desktop
> interface for it?  If so then I beg, beg, beg you to add at the very
> least cutting & pasting.  According to the quick reference moving
> items is "coming very soon!"  :)

	The conduit knows a little about it, but is easily confused, so it
is not enabled. Consider.. moving items around between parents, then
moving parents around, then moving those items aorund a few more times,
both on the handheld and desktop. The conduti just can't make sense what
you intend, since you can totally mess up things on both sides. Big pain
in the butt :)

	When I get to the desktops in awhile (a few weeks or month?) I'll
be redoing some of the conduit to add lots of features and make it more
robust, and adding piles of stuff to the desktop. Drag and drop and
clipboard operations are near the top of the list for the desktop and
conduit :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jledesma28  <jledesma28@y...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 0:10am
Subject: Icons and Shadow Plan

Hello, wouldn't be nice to be able to use the icons one already uses 
on either Dbk5 or ActNms as part the outline one creates, that would 
be great Jeff if can be done.
thanks

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 2:09am
Subject: Re: Icons and Shadow Plan

On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, jledesma28 wrote:

> Hello, wouldn't be nice to be able to use the icons one already uses 
> on either Dbk5 or ActNms as part the outline one creates, that would 
> be great Jeff if can be done.

	It can be done but its low on the todo list right now (ie: Theres
a lot that has to be on the desktop and conduit, after I finish
customizable filters and such). So it'll be awhile :(

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Stewart Midwinter  <stewart@m...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 2:52am
Subject: Re: Shadow and TodoPlus cause crash?

>    Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:37:16 -0400 (EDT)
>    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>

> 	A Handera has plenty of memory, so unless your Shado wlist is
> *huge* ... you shoudl not have memory
> issues. Tried upgrading ToDo Plus?
> 
> 	OR do you have lots of hacks (unralted ones) chewing into your
> free memory pool or the like?

Thanks for the reply.  I'm using the following hacks:
TealNotes 1.14, McPhling 2.12, Keyboard hack, FindHack 2.8, ClockPop 1.8, CaseToggleHack 2.3, ( a few more are installed but disactivated).    As for ToDoPlus, it's 3.50, which is quite recent.

I'll report back when I get the next crash.

Cheers,
Stewart.

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 3:15am
Subject: Re: Icons and Shadow Plan

after that latest iambic move, are there any people left that use action names?  ; )
i was, i am proud to say, one of those that did make the move to datebk based upon principle after that recent iambic move.  and now that i have spent the time reading a few pages of the manual each evening i appreciate all that it has to offer and the allowance for me to fine tune each view, especially weekly, on my clie.  i use tealphone with it, and link my entries to the phonebook name, thus when i pull up that client in tealphone it has all my entries at the bottom.  no problems whatsoever syncing with shadow!  now i'm supporting two fine programmers and dumped the clown!!!
kevin
------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jledesma28 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 5:10 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Icons and Shadow Plan


  Hello, wouldn't be nice to be able to use the icons one already uses 
  on either Dbk5 or ActNms as part the outline one creates, that would 
  be great Jeff if can be done.
  thanks





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 3:17am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow and TodoPlus cause crash?

try unchecking findhack for a while...i seem to recall various people in various forums having trouble with that hack under very specific circumstances.  just a thought.
kevin


------------------------------
Enjoy life!
------------------------------
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Stewart Midwinter 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 7:52 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow and TodoPlus cause crash?


  Thanks for the reply.  I'm using the following hacks:
  TealNotes 1.14, McPhling 2.12, Keyboard hack, FindHack 2.8, ClockPop 1.8, CaseToggleHack 2.3, ( a few more are installed but disactivated).    As for ToDoPlus, it's 3.50, which is quite recent.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 4:07am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow and TodoPlus cause crash?

On Fri, 31 May 2002, Stewart Midwinter wrote:

> > 	A Handera has plenty of memory, so unless your Shado wlist is
> > *huge* ... you shoudl not have memory
> > issues. Tried upgrading ToDo Plus?
> > 
> > 	OR do you have lots of hacks (unralted ones) chewing into your
> > free memory pool or the like?
> 
> Thanks for the reply.  I'm using the following hacks: TealNotes 1.14,
> McPhling 2.12, Keyboard hack, FindHack 2.8, ClockPop 1.8,
> CaseToggleHack 2.3, ( a few more are installed but disactivated).  As
> for ToDoPlus, it's 3.50, which is quite recent.

	FindHack is known to cause some "weird issues" in all sorts of
applications. Try disabling it for awhile. McPhling has caused problems
for a very few people, so I'm inclined to say its okay, but you could try
disabling it for a bit to see if the issue goes away.. but its not likely
the culprit. TealNotes shoudl be okay, too, I think.

> I'll report back when I get the next crash.

	Tried "TrapWeaver"? I think it helps catch some naughty Hacks and
clean them up a little.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 4:10am
Subject: Re: Icons and Shadow Plan

On Fri, 31 May 2002, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> after that latest iambic move, are there any people left that use
> action names?  ; ) i was, i am proud to say, one of those that did
> make the move to datebk based upon principle after that recent iambic
> move.  and now that i have spent the time reading a few pages of the
> manual each evening i appreciate all that it has to offer and the
> allowance for me to fine tune each view, especially weekly, on my
> clie.  i use tealphone with it, and link my entries to the phonebook
> name, thus when i pull up that client in tealphone it has all my
> entries at the bottom.  no problems whatsoever syncing with shadow!  
> now i'm supporting two fine programmers and dumped the clown!!!

	I am attempting to move from AN to DB5, but I sadly have two main
complaints, so I may have to write myself a simple rudimentary datebook
application :P (1) DateBk cannot do a decent list view, in the same sort
of way AN does it. (ie: Optimum use of screen space. DBs list view is
rediculous, and doesn't handle high res at all well. (2) DB5 is very slow
to come up and use. AN is no speed demon, but its got to be 3 or 4 times
faster than DB5 :/

	Launch time, and scroll time, in list view, are important to
me. (My needs are extremely basic.. just list view fast is what I need :)

	I'm tempted to build something like WhatzUp, but use screen space
wisely (instead of dividing screen in half.. duh), and support highres. No
alarms, or updates/edits, or the like. If only there was such a thing
already :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: John Hatto  <jhatto@b...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 6:27am
Subject: Possibility of an alternative field to Target/Start/Finish an alternative to a Time field

Jeff

Thanks for your useful tips (see below).  

It struck me afterwards that what I was asking for could have wider
appeal if I restated it as an additional field to the
Target/Start/Finish flags and the Note field that can be added to any
List entry.  It may be that I am missing something basic but I assume
none of the different types of Lists provide this.  Such a field might
be used for flagging up a range of issues such as price or source of
supply that different users might want to sort upon.

 

I would want to be able to insert a number or mixed number /text entry.
I could for example insert '23' to show an event occurred at 11pm.
(Similarly 23:30 or 23.5 could stand for  11.30pm though the effects on
sort might be different but the function clearer).

Of course ideally (for my time field) it could be an automatically
calculated field (or this might even be available as a Palm OS tool) but
I could live without that.  

 

Sorry to persist but with all these ideas floating around it seems a
good time to mention it.

 

John

 

From: Jeff Mitchell [support@s...]

Sent: 28 May 2002 13:20

To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Investigation Reports and a On Tue, 28 May
2002, John Hatto wrote:

 

> I am keen to use Shadow for recording and analysing the evidence
surrounding industrial accidents and similar incidents (I have raised
before the question of using Shadow for Root Cause Analysis but have
found no others using Shadow for this).  To record a whole series of
events and data on an incident I need to record the time each event
started as well as the date.  I can not see how to create a time of day
field to do that.  I suppose there might be a way of achieving this by
linking but I want to be able to sort and review data rapidly as well
insert new information as it becomes available. Also I may want to
record time linked note about, for example, what else was happening
them, which may or may not relate to this incident.

 

      Shadow doesn't (yet) concern itself with "time of day", only the
date of the day itself. Myself, whenever I've needed to use time it was
either for an alarm or like you, in a log. Alarms are done best via

linking. Logging?

 

      The Palm has a shortcut for inserting current date, or date and
time, or time. The shortcut symbol is a scrwewy one.. like a handwritten
"eye", but upside down. So its shortcut, d, t, s to get a date and time
stamp. Or shortcut, d, s to get a date stamp. I use this very
frequently.. just start an item "Accident with john, shortcut d t s" and
you've logged it in Shadow.

 

> I appreciate this might have only limited appeal and I could make do
with various fudges but I assume it would be possible as an optional
field and hope Jeff might include it in his current plans.

 

      Its a tough call; Shadow has a million uses.. but breaking them up
into checklists, outlines, todo lists, and project management type
lists.. none of them need time, except for alarms and logging. We care
about days "5 days for now, do this", more than "in an hour, do this"
(which is more a datebook operation).

 

      I think we're okay as we are now, but sometimes I consider time..

 

            jeff

 

--

"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro

circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,

sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"

-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

 

 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: veb8  <veb8899@f...>
Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Improvements???

Jeff,

Even though I couldn't program software if my life depended on it, I 
do understand your position as when I worked at an interactive 
exhibit at a museum, I hated the question about how long it would 
take to get to the head of the line.  I avoided answering the 
question whenever possible because there were just too many variables 
and I am sure you are dealing with a similar situation.

Having said that, I can also identify with the folks who are 
frustrated at the lack of progress on the desktop.  As I have told 
you off list, you are one of my favorite palm software developers for 
so many of the good things you have done, including making ShadowPlan 
accessible to people like me, with disabilities because it was the 
right thing to do.  I think I am feeling their pain though because it 
has seemed to me for quite awhile, that the desktop was at the top of 
your priority list but keeps getting shoved aside for other issues.

But like I said, there are too many variables that occur which I know 
you don't have control over so I am trying to be patient and 
understanding because of your excellent track record.  You deserve 
credit for not shying away from the desktop question as I did when I 
was on the interactive floor.  But I am just wondering if it might be 
better if you realize that action on the desktop is going to be 
delayed to let people know that.  Of course, with everything you have 
going on, that might not be a feasible suggestion.

In all fairness, the issue of producing a desktop version of palm 
software is not limited to you.  I am still waiting for the desktop 
version of Life Balance although the developers are like you and are 
doing the best they can but have limited resources.

Again, many kudos to you for what you have done with ShadowPlan.  I 
have no doubt that when the desktop does get the features that we all 
are clamoring for that we will be very happy and glad that we were 
patient.

Vivian