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4501

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:08pm
Subject: Re: Fatal Error on Deleting Files

 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Michael Rudnick wrote:

> I recently did a bit of clean up on my Shadow files and had a fatal
> error when deleting a file. By following these steps I reproduced the
> problem:
>   Click on a file
>   Click on the trash can
>   Message comes up, "Are you sure...?" Choose "Yes"
>   Message comes up, "Remove links...?" Choose "Yes"
>   Fatal Error. DataMgr.c, Line:7821,Index out of range
> 
> I was able to reproduce this by creating a new file and then deleting
> it. My work-around for now was to manually remove the links in the
> file and then choose "No" to the message "Remove links".

	It means likely that one of your files is "old"; Shadow has gone
through 1 major format change, and several minor ones. (It has an
extension mechanism, so little extensions get added to its database every
once in awhile, to contain all the new features). If you've been through
many versions of Shadow, you may have created a file long ago that is a
little "older" looking than the "current" format of your version on the
handheld. Thats not a problem .. the Shadow application can reasd any
version of its files from day 1 a couple years ago. However, the
"scanner" routines are more fragile and sometimes get confused.

	How to fix?

	IF you have the time, open each of your files, one at a time. Open
it, open an item details, hit OK, hit Done/X and go onto the next
file. That is sufficient for Shadow to "refresh" the file while closing
it.

	Doing this process will refresh all your files and the problem
shoudl go away.

	I should make a FAQ entry for this :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4502

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:13pm
Subject: Re: Fonts still not sticking

 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, ::.jay.west wrote:

> A few weeks ago I reported having trouble with my font prefs not sticking. I
> had FontBucket installed and when I set an alternative font and then
> switched to another app and then back to Shadow all my fonts settings seemed
> to revert back to the Palm OS basic fonts.
> 
> I have since removed FontBucket and all traces of fonts and simply tried
> setting my bold font as another Palm OS base font and it still reverts back
> to the default fonts. Any idea why this is happening? Jeff, can my
> preferences be corrupted? All other prefs stick.

	That is just too weird. Your'e the only one who has reported such
an oddity. I think we went through the motions before but lets check..

	Any Hacks enabled?

> Prism OS 3.5.2 Shadow 2.1.2b (although it was doing this in previous
> releases too)

	It was all developed on that configuration (Prism).

	There has to be somethign whacky going on.

	They reset back to normal as soon as you leave Shadow? Not after a
hotsync or anything? 

	What Launcher? Maybe you've got somethign that messes with the
prefs..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4503

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:15pm
Subject: Re: Clie T615 Crashes with Hi-Res Assist on

 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, marsrowjablonski wrote:

> Is it just me or is anyone else having a problem with Shadow 2.1.2 
> beta crashing on their Sony Clie T615? Shadow consistently crashes 
> unless it is excluded in the HiRes Assist preferences. With it 
> excluded in the HiRes Assist preferences, it appears to run fine.

	Highres Assist crashes for many programs that paint the
background. You can uncheck "col-bg" in List Preferences and then the
lists will open in highres assist no problem. A highres supporting version
is coming out soon, so this problem will be moot.. but until then, just
dont' enable col-bg. Or maybe Sony will make a patch :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4504

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:16pm
Subject: Re: New Item problem

 
Is this 100% repeatable? If you get a file which is perfectly in
sync on the handheld and desktop, then new item and delete it, does it
always cause this problem?

	If so, thats very helpful.. (we've been trying to nab this for
awhile :)

		jeff

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, ffdet wrote:

> Hey all, just registered my Shadow Plan and loving it :)
> 
>  I've found a little bug or annoyance that you may already know 
> about. I tried to search on it but I couldn't find it.  
> 
>  I found that entering items on the desktop and deleting a accidently 
> placed new item caused the palm to show the list wrong.  The only way 
> to fix it was to delete it off the palm and resync the file from the 
> desktop. Here's what I'm talking about.
> 
> On desktop - Notice the new item was accidental and I highlighted it 
> and hit delete while in the desktop mode.
> 
> task 1
>   -sublevel
> task 2
>   -sublevel 
>     -new item *deleted on desktop*
> task 3
>   -sublevel
> task 4
>   -sublevel
> 
>  On palm it shows up like this. Notice it has moved the 3rd and 4th 
> task up under the task 2 where the new item was deleted from.
> 
> task 1
>   -sublevel
> task 2
>   -sublevel
>   -task 3
>     -sublevel
>   -task 4
>     -sublevel
> 
>  Technically the data is all there but it's not formatted the same 
> anymore.  It moves under a task it shouldn't be in.
> 
>  Is this a known issue or something new?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brad.
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4505

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:22pm
Subject: Re: DateBk4 Floats don't work

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Khairil Yusof wrote:

> Just tested this out (letting the float move to the next day). I get wierd
> characters that show in Shadow but not in the DB4 notes field. DB4 often has

	DB4 extensions work by adding junk to the notes; so every time you
do something funny in DB4 (thats not in built in Datebook), it adds kruft
into the note. Shadow will show the note (as will any other program that
shows the datebook notes).. since it *really is a note*. Just DB4 knows
how his extensions look and hides them.  I could also try and hide them,
but then I have to keep up with Db4 extensions, and then the Action Names
people would want me to do the same for them (it also adds to the note),
and a dozen other programs :) So.. I'm waiting to do special code for
specific apps until I've got more things finished which benefit all Shadow
users.. 

> extra stuff like icons in the notes field, but when it doesn't show in DB4
> but shows up in Shadow, there is some extra data there not being synced. It
> works on the initial link but doens't once the float moves to the next day
> (a goto action on the next day from Shadow).

	IF you mean the note junk, then that is normal. Thats DB4's stuff
just being revealed.

> So DB4 users using floats to track projects, shouldn't link them. It's

	Lots of people do; it works (I think). What is the problem
exactly? (goto's work, no? the sync is correct, no?)

> Most of the time it comes down to for me is, do I want to use Shadow Plan to
> track your dates or the Datebook app. You could have a list of dates in
> Shadow, but for people like me DB4 views help me visualize better. Somehow a
> list of dates of deadlines is just not as scary as seeing 2 deadline icons a
> day apart in a week view on DB4. ;)

	Depends on your philosophy; I manage things bigger than one day in
Shadow. No datebook can handle somethign more than a day long .. 5
separate day events are all unrelated in a datebook.. they're only related
in your head. My head is full and tired :) So Shadow has a list of related
things and I link them out as they get near. On any given instant, I
monitor my datebook (Action Names) for my todays due events.. its a flat
list of things I need done today, from all Shadow lists (since all my
shadow lists link into the one datebook, since you can onyl have one
datebook). So I use both..

	But everyone has their own system :)

		jeff

> 
> ---
> PGP Key ID: 0x6FFEFD7F
> 
> Life Overclocked @ Insaida.com
> http://www.insaida.com/modules.php?name=Sections
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4506

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2002 11:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:

> > 	If you've got VFS or a Clie, this is for you :)
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > 	NOTE: VFS support only checked for OS 3.5.x and later
> 
> You may want to re-look this as the Visor Deluxe (OS 3.1) can run VFS
> if using an adapter that uses the Flash Adapter drivers and VFShelper
> from Kopsis Engineering ( http://www.kopsisengineering.com ).  I know
> Dave Kessler, the president of Kopsis, has helped many developers make
> sure their products do work with 3.1

	Shadow works all the way back through 2.0 actually (excepting
some specific features which can only work in OS 3.x). Perhaps I will
remove the VFS check entirely, all the way back to OS 3.0, if I can do so
withotu causing issues.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4507

From: Khairil Yusof  <kaeru@p...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:35pm
Subject: RE: DateBk4 Floats don't work

 
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]

> Lots of people do; it works (I think). What is the problem
> exactly? (goto's work, no? the sync is correct, no?)

That's what I tested. If you link to a float event on day 1, it works fine
using the goto. The next day, something happens that breaks the link. So in
link manager it says link to datekbook present. However the goto won't work
anymore.

I'll test it again tonight, and see if the link is maintained from day to
day (DB4 generates floating events at midnight).


---
PGP Key ID: 0x6FFEFD7F

Life Overclocked @ Insaida.com
http://www.insaida.com/modules.php?name=Sections
4508

From: Michael Rudnick  <egroups@R...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:37pm
Subject: Re: Fatal Error on Deleting Files

 
Jeff,

Thanks for the info on this. I hate to burden you with another task
but... It's a bit disconcerting when an app crashes. I'd recommend
that this be handles more elegantly. Is a conversion needed to
automatically convert the files? Maybe a check in the program and a
warning? I dunno. I have done my housecleaning and deleted my files.

Now that I've said that, the problem also occurred when I created a
new file, added 2 records, closed it out and tried deleting it. Does
this mean something else?
--
Michael Rudnick                         
Michael@R...

Wednesday, March 06, 2002, 8:08:22 AM, you wrote:
JM> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Michael Rudnick wrote:

>> I recently did a bit of clean up on my Shadow files and had a fatal
>> error when deleting a file. By following these steps I reproduced the
>> problem:
>> Click on a file
>> Click on the trash can
>> Message comes up, "Are you sure...?" Choose "Yes"
>> Message comes up, "Remove links...?" Choose "Yes"
>> Fatal Error. DataMgr.c, Line:7821,Index out of range
>>
>> I was able to reproduce this by creating a new file and then deleting
>> it. My work-around for now was to manually remove the links in the
>> file and then choose "No" to the message "Remove links".

JM>  It means likely that one of your files is "old"; Shadow has gone
JM> through 1 major format change, and several minor ones. (It has an
JM> extension mechanism, so little extensions get added to its database every
JM> once in awhile, to contain all the new features). If you've been through
JM> many versions of Shadow, you may have created a file long ago that is a
JM> little "older" looking than the "current" format of your version on the
JM> handheld. Thats not a problem .. the Shadow application can reasd any
JM> version of its files from day 1 a couple years ago. However, the
JM> "scanner" routines are more fragile and sometimes get confused.

JM>  How to fix?

JM>  IF you have the time, open each of your files, one at a time. Open
JM> it, open an item details, hit OK, hit Done/X and go onto the next
JM> file. That is sufficient for Shadow to "refresh" the file while closing
JM> it.

JM>  Doing this process will refresh all your files and the problem
JM> shoudl go away.

JM>  I should make a FAQ entry for this :)

JM>   jeff

JM> --
JM> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
JM> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
JM> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
JM> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


JM> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

JM> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
JM> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



JM> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to theYahoo! Terms of Service.
4509

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:21am
Subject: Re: Clie T615 Crashes with Hi-Res Assist on

 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, marsrowjablonski wrote:

> I'm not sure if this has been discussed before or if I'm the only 
> one having this problem, but I'm using the new Shadow 2.1.2 beta 
> version and my Clie T615 crashes consistently unless I exclude it in 
> the HiRes assist preferences.

	Highres Assist is crashing; it can't handle background paints very
well. I've got a highres version coming soon which will make the problem
moot, and if you run Shadow in low res on a clie, it'll disable col-bg
automatically. (If you have highres assist on, uncheck col-bg in list
prefs and then you're good to go. Run Shadow in low res to change the list
prefs, of course, or you'll crash before getting there :)

> Anyone else having this problem or know of workaround?

	Everyone with a Clie. So do the col-bg trick for now, and grab the
Clie version in a bit :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4510

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 2:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Fatal Error on Deleting Files

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Michael Rudnick wrote:

> Thanks for the info on this. I hate to burden you with another task
> but... It's a bit disconcerting when an app crashes. I'd recommend
> that this be handles more elegantly. Is a conversion needed to
> automatically convert the files? Maybe a check in the program and a
> warning? I dunno. I have done my housecleaning and deleted my files.

	Its on my list todo; the scanner routines shouldn't have such a
flaw at all.. they shoudl automatically adjust to the version of the
records in there.. but they're having troubles with some versions it
appears. I've not fully investigated it however.. being drawn in too many
directions (Mac desktop version, improving the windows desktop, the
handheld some bug fixes, the handheld some features, keeping up with Palm
OS, Sony, Handera.. no end of work :)

> Now that I've said that, the problem also occurred when I created a
> new file, added 2 records, closed it out and tried deleting it. Does
> this mean something else?

	No; the scanners aren't scanner the file you're deleting.. theyr'e
scanning all you rothe files, looking for files pointing to the one you're
deleting. You could just hit No to that dialog and no worries :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4511

From: anniebluesky  <annie@b...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:56pm
Subject: test

 
I have sent 2 posts and none have been posted. I am seeing if this 
gets through. Anyone else having problems posting?
annie
4512

From: anniebluesky  <annie@b...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:58pm
Subject: desktop files

 
I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application. 
 
I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet 
supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 
71) 
 
Just an added note. I am able to open other shadow files were created 
on the handheld. This one I created on the desktop a few days ago. I 
can view it on the handheld, but cannot open it on the desktop. If 
naming is a problem, it has a simple name "McDougall" without the 
quotes. And it reads "ShadowP-McDougall.XML" on the computer.
 
thanks...
annie . )) -::-
             . .))
            ((. .   -::-  
            -::- ((.* http://anniebluesky.tripod.com
                                   ...computer tidbits...
4513

From: Ralph Alvy  <ralvy@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 4:36am
Subject: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Ralph Alvy wrote:
> 
>       Only with this file, or any file you attempt? When you open that
> target file normally yourself, it works fine? What if you open up list
> prefs for that file?
> 
>             jeff

Any file that Shadow lists in the list of possible files to target the
link.

When I open the intended target file on its own, no problems. And no
problems opening List Preferences for any such file.

-- 
Ralph Alvy
ralvy@c...
4514

From: Ralph Alvy  <ralvy@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 4:37am
Subject: Re: Shadow vs Life Balance

 
Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> > If this is not the appropriate forum for the discussion, let me
> know.
> 
>       Depends; if you want to do a brief compare and contrast thats
> fine; if your'e goign to go telling everyone to use LB, I'll have to
> boot
> you :)
> 
>             jeff

The Yahoo group GTD_Palm seems the perfect place for this, now that I
know of its existence.

-- 
Ralph Alvy
ralvy@c...
4515

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 4:49pm
Subject: Re: test

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, anniebluesky wrote:

> I have sent 2 posts and none have been posted. I am seeing if this 
> gets through. Anyone else having problems posting?

	I think yahoo might've had some issues yesterday..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4516

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 4:50pm
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, anniebluesky wrote:

> I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application. 
>  
> I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet 
> supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 
> 71) 

	Are you using Shadow 2.1 or 2.0? Sounds like you're using
2.0; upgrade to 2.1 to fix the problem. (You're using an international
character, and the desktop in Shadow 2.0 couldn't handle non-Western
characters)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4517

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 7:06pm
Subject: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ralph Alvy wrote:

> >       Only with this file, or any file you attempt? When you open that
> > target file normally yourself, it works fine? What if you open up list
> > prefs for that file?
> 
> Any file that Shadow lists in the list of possible files to target the
> link.
> 
> When I open the intended target file on its own, no problems. And no
> problems opening List Preferences for any such file.

	Thats whacky. OKay, I'll have to investigate it later.. I'm in the
middle of a number of things and tied up for a few days. Let me know the
exact error again (or I can go back through mail and find it), and I'll
look into it in awhile.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4518

From: Ralph Alvy  <ralvy@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 7:38pm
Subject: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 
>       Thats whacky. OKay, I'll have to investigate it later.. I'm in
> the
> middle of a number of things and tied up for a few days. Let me know
> the
> exact error again (or I can go back through mail and find it), and
> I'll
> look into it in awhile.

Okay. Here's the exact message ...

	Fatal Alert:

	Fatal Exception

	Reset

I get that when attempting a File Link execution, as well as when
attempting to go to a file on the Recent Files list.

-- 
Ralph Alvy
ralvy@c...
4519

From: Cindy Greene  <cindyg@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 7:45pm
Subject: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
I had the same error message; drove me crazy and I almost stopped using
Shadow. Couldn't find ANYTHING on a Fatal Exception in any manual, help
file, anything.

Completely disappeared when I installed the latest upgrade; hasn't returned.

I love Shadow again...

Cindy


 
>       Thats whacky. OKay, I'll have to investigate it later.. I'm in
> the
> middle of a number of things and tied up for a few days. Let me know
> the
> exact error again (or I can go back through mail and find it), and
> I'll
> look into it in awhile.

> Okay. Here's the exact message ...

        Fatal Alert:

        Fatal Exception

        Reset

> I get that when attempting a File Link execution, as well as when
> attempting to go to a file on the Recent Files list.
4520

From: Ralph Alvy  <ralvy@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 7:05am
Subject: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
More info for you on this, Jeff. I get the same Fatal Exception error if
I choose a file from the Recent Files list. Any file at all.

-- 
Ralph Alvy
ralvy@c...
4521

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 8:02pm
Subject: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Ralph Alvy wrote:

> >       Thats whacky. OKay, I'll have to investigate it later.. I'm in
> > the
> > middle of a number of things and tied up for a few days. Let me know
> > the
> > exact error again (or I can go back through mail and find it), and
> > I'll
> > look into it in awhile.
> 
> Okay. Here's the exact message ...
> 
> 	Fatal Alert:
> 
> 	Fatal Exception
> 
> 	Reset
> 
> I get that when attempting a File Link execution, as well as when
> attempting to go to a file on the Recent Files list.

	Disabled hacks? You might have a buggy hack causing problems..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4522

From: jeff.resener@s...
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 8:22pm
Subject: Re: DateBk4 Floats don't work

 
Jeff, if my memory is correct, I think you can make the floats generate
manually by going to DB4>Options>About/register,...and tap the word Datebk4
in the upper right by the pimblico emblem.


<snip>

That's what I tested. If you link to a float event on day 1, it works fine
using the goto. The next day, something happens that breaks the link. So in
link manager it says link to datekbook present. However the goto won't work
anymore.

I'll test it again tonight, and see if the link is maintained from day to
day (DB4 generates floating events at midnight).
4523

From: Ralph Alvy  <ralvy@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 8:32pm
Subject: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>       Disabled hacks? You might have a buggy hack causing problems..
> 

Yep. All hacks disabled during testing, including doing a soft reset
after disabling them. Only use one hack at this point, anyway: McPhling.

-- 
Ralph Alvy
ralvy@c...
4524

From: Ralph Alvy  <ralvy@c...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 8:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: File linking: Fatal Exception

 
Cindy Greene wrote:
> 
> I had the same error message; drove me crazy and I almost stopped
> using
> Shadow. Couldn't find ANYTHING on a Fatal Exception in any manual,
> help
> file, anything.
> 
> Completely disappeared when I installed the latest upgrade; hasn't
> returned.
> 
> I love Shadow again...
> 
> Cindy
> 
> >       Thats whacky. OKay, I'll have to investigate it later.. I'm in
> > the
> > middle of a number of things and tied up for a few days. Let me know
> > the
> > exact error again (or I can go back through mail and find it), and
> > I'll
> > look into it in awhile.
> 
> > Okay. Here's the exact message ...
> 
>         Fatal Alert:
> 
>         Fatal Exception
> 
>         Reset
> 
> > I get that when attempting a File Link execution, as well as when
> > attempting to go to a file on the Recent Files list.
> 
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>                        ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

I'm using Shadow 2.1.0. I think that's the latest. I'll check the Web
page.

-- 
Ralph Alvy
ralvy@c...
4525

From: atebata61  <atebata61@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
Jeff -

been playing with jog-dial - nice!  

Something I'd like to suggest (you may be already on it) is:

In List View:

If item is selected and has children but is collapsed:
   Jog push, expand item to see children
   Back, collapse

If item is selected AND is allready expanded OR does not have 
children:
   Jog push, Open details window for that item
   Back, Deselect item

Aaron

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>   Main List View Screen:
>     Jog push, no selected: Select screen topmost item
>     Jog push, item selected: Open Details window for that item
>     Back, item selected: Deselect item
>     Back, no selection: Save and return to file selection screen
>     Jog scroll up/down, no selection: Page up/down
>     Jog scroll up/down, item selected: Select next/previous and 
keeps
>       new selection visible
4526

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 10:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, atebata61 wrote:

> been playing with jog-dial - nice!  

	Someone else recommended the results of the various pushes,
etc. Kudos to the forum!

> If item is selected and has children but is collapsed:
>    Jog push, expand item to see children

	But then how do you get details? Push it to expand, push it again?

>    Back, collapse

	I think I'll leave these to the forum and the lad who invented
most of the jog ideas. (My only contribution was the category popup when
you hit Back at the file selection screen ;)

> If item is selected AND is allready expanded OR does not have 
> children:
>    Jog push, Open details window for that item
>    Back, Deselect item

	I'll wait..

		jeff

> 
> Aaron
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >   Main List View Screen:
> >     Jog push, no selected: Select screen topmost item
> >     Jog push, item selected: Open Details window for that item
> >     Back, item selected: Deselect item
> >     Back, no selection: Save and return to file selection screen
> >     Jog scroll up/down, no selection: Page up/down
> >     Jog scroll up/down, item selected: Select next/previous and 
> keeps
> >       new selection visible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4527

From: Scott Holmes  <swh_13@y...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:02pm
Subject: Re: Fonts still not sticking

 
The fonts do not stick for me either.  
   Handspring Visor Prism 
   Palm OS 3.5.2H1.5
   Shadow 2.1.0
   FontBucket v1.10

I don't have any hacks and I don't have Hackmaster installed.  I don't use a
launcher, just the default Palm Application Launcher.

I did not try this feature with the default Palm fonts as Jay mentioned.

I did install all the FontBucket fonts and then delete the fonts I did not want
to use.  When I go to the font picker I see 4 Palm OS fonts installed
   Palm OS   9
   Palm OS B 9
   Palm OS   12
   Palm OS B 12
(are these font bucket fonts or are these the standard Palm OS fonts?)  These
seem to be the fonts that are being defaulted back to,
   for Normal it is Palm OS   9
   for Bold it is Palm OS B 9

I did not try deleting these from FontBucket.

The fonts revert back as soon as I leave Shadow but are not affected by
powering off and powering on.

   > From: "::.jay.west" <email@j...>
   > Subject: Fonts still not sticking
   >
   > A few weeks ago I reported having trouble with my font prefs not sticking.
   > I had FontBucket installed and when I set an alternative font and then
   > switched to another app and then back to Shadow all my fonts settings
   > seemed to revert back to the Palm OS basic fonts.



=====
_____Scott H.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
4528

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: Fonts still not sticking

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Scott Holmes wrote:

> I don't have any hacks and I don't have Hackmaster installed.  I don't use a
> launcher, just the default Palm Application Launcher.

	Where did you get fontbucket from? My site or another? Perhaps
there are multiple versions of it floating around..

> I did install all the FontBucket fonts and then delete the fonts I did not want
> to use.  When I go to the font picker I see 4 Palm OS fonts installed
>    Palm OS   9
>    Palm OS B 9
>    Palm OS   12
>    Palm OS B 12
> (are these font bucket fonts or are these the standard Palm OS fonts?)  These
> seem to be the fonts that are being defaulted back to,
>    for Normal it is Palm OS   9
>    for Bold it is Palm OS B 9

	Those are all built in fonts; if thats all you see, then you're
not seeing any font bucket font packs.

> The fonts revert back as soon as I leave Shadow but are not affected
> by powering off and powering on.

	Revert back? These are built ins..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4529

From: Michael Rudnick  <egroups@R...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 11:18pm
Subject: Re:Fatal Error on Deleting Files

 
JM>  Its on my list todo; the scanner routines shouldn't have such a
JM> flaw at all.. they shoudl automatically adjust to the version of the
JM> records in there.. but they're having troubles with some versions it
JM> appears. I've not fully investigated it however.. being drawn in too many
JM> directions (Mac desktop version, improving the windows desktop, the
JM> handheld some bug fixes, the handheld some features, keeping up with Palm
JM> OS, Sony, Handera.. no end of work :)

I can only imagine. Good luck keeping up with it all!

JM>  No; the scanners aren't scanner the file you're deleting.. theyr'e
JM> scanning all you rothe files, looking for files pointing to the one you're
JM> deleting. You could just hit No to that dialog and no worries :)

OK. Thanks.

Michael Rudnick
egroups@r...
4530

From: anniebluesky  <annie@b...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:30pm
Subject: What is wrong?

 
I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application. 
 
I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet 
supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 
71) 
 
Just an added note. I am able to open other shadow files were created 
on the handheld. This one I created on the desktop a few days ago. I 
can view it on the handheld, but cannot open it on the desktop. If 
naming is a problem, it has a simple name "McDougall" without the 
quotes. And it reads "ShadowP-McDougall.XML" on the computer.
 
thanks...
annie . )) -::-
             . .))
            ((. .   -::-  
            -::- ((.* http://anniebluesky.tripod.com
                                   ...computer tidbits...
4531

From: ffdet  <brad@f...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 0:11am
Subject: Re: New Item problem

 
I have had it happen several times but I have yet to try it 
intentionally ;)  I will do some testing on it in hour or two.  I had 
it happen today in a totally different situation.  It appeared to 
happen after moving a task from 0% completed to 100% completed on the 
desktop.  When I synced with my Visor it made a duplicate of the item 
I had placed at 100% and then moved everything under it as a 
sibling.  I'm not sure if that one was just a one time thing or what 
but I'll test that too.  I'll let you know a little later tonight.

Brad


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Is this 100% repeatable? If you get a file which is perfectly 
in
> sync on the handheld and desktop, then new item and delete it, does 
it
> always cause this problem?
> 
> 	If so, thats very helpful.. (we've been trying to nab this for
> awhile :)
> 
> 		jeff
>
4532

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 0:14am
Subject: Re: What is wrong?

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, anniebluesky wrote:

> I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application. 
>  
> I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet 
> supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 
> 71) 
>  
> Just an added note. I am able to open other shadow files were created 
> on the handheld. This one I created on the desktop a few days ago. I 
> can view it on the handheld, but cannot open it on the desktop. If 
> naming is a problem, it has a simple name "McDougall" without the 
> quotes. And it reads "ShadowP-McDougall.XML" on the computer.

	I think this is getting answered twice (problem at yahoo?). 

	Sounds like you need to get Shadow 2.1.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4533

From: Anthony Schellenberg  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 4:27pm
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
On your desktop, open your xml file in something like notepad.  Make sure 
notepad's word wrap is off and count down to line 71.  Take a look at what's 
there, perhaps this will give a clue as to what is happening.  Likely there 
is some symbol/character that is not being handled properly.  You could cut 
and paste the section and post here.


>From: "anniebluesky" <annie@b...>
>Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [shadow-discuss] desktop files
>Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:58:24 -0000
>
>I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application.
>
>I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet
>supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line
>71)
>
>Just an added note. I am able to open other shadow files were created
>on the handheld. This one I created on the desktop a few days ago. I
>can view it on the handheld, but cannot open it on the desktop. If
>naming is a problem, it has a simple name "McDougall" without the
>quotes. And it reads "ShadowP-McDougall.XML" on the computer.
>
>thanks...
>annie . )) -::-
>              . .))
>             ((. .   -::-
>             -::- ((.* http://anniebluesky.tripod.com
>                                    ...computer tidbits...
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
4534

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 2:14am
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

> On your desktop, open your xml file in something like notepad.  Make sure 
> notepad's word wrap is off and count down to line 71.  Take a look at what's 
> there, perhaps this will give a clue as to what is happening.  Likely there 
> is some symbol/character that is not being handled properly.  You could cut 
> and paste the section and post here.

	I dont' think these errors should occur in desktop 2.1, since it
supports international character sets (more or less). I wonder if I shoud
llet you guys help more, so I can spend my time working more :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4535

From: Khairil Yusof  <kaeru@p...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:27pm
Subject: RE: Individual seletion of expanded links

 
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]

> Its a complex question; tapping in an item on the screen selects
> the item. Since those expanded-links do not really exist and are paert of
> the item, they work the same way. Tapping in them just selects the item,
> and when the item is selected, it (and everythign about it) is shown in
> reverse. Tapping on the link arrow for an expanded link is a extension for
> conveniance. Shadow doesn't understand the idea of selecting just an
> expanded linked thing.. its not a shadow item, it cannot be selected.

I thought it would be something like that, from observing the behaviour of
expanding a memo. The colour options would be nice (or shaded grey or
something for B/W) for people doing it this way.

I guess the best way if you want to have a lot of links (say more than 5) is
to use the Shadow way which is to create child items and individual links.
It's more powerful, but only an extra step.

---
PGP Key ID: 0x6FFEFD7F

Life Overclocked @ Insaida.com
http://www.insaida.com/modules.php?name=Sections
4536

From: ~SS~  <annie@b...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 0:31pm
Subject: What is wrong?

 
I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application. 

I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 71) 

Just an added note. I am able to open other shadow files were created on the handheld. This one I created on the desktop a few days ago. I can view it on the handheld, but cannot open it on the desktop. If naming is a problem, it has a simple name "McDougall" without the quotes. And it reads "ShadowP-McDougall.XML" on the computer.

thanks...
annie . )) -::-
             . .))
            ((. .   -::-  
            -::- ((.* http://anniebluesky.tripod.com
                                   ...computer tidbits...  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4537

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, fiatspider72 wrote:

> VFS support if using one of the Flash Adapters supported by the
> drivers from Kopsis Engineering.  Dave Kessler, President of Kopsis,
> has been very helpful to other developers to make their software VFS
> aware and not exclude the 3.1 OS.  You can get his contact info from
> the flashadapter-forum on Yahoo Groups or at kopsisengineering.com

	I think, somehow, some messages got doubled in the mailing list.

	I've modified my development version to check only for OS3.0.0 for
this; we'll see in testing if this is a problem.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4538

From: ::.jay.west  <email@j...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 3:28pm
Subject: Re: Fonts still not sticking

 
Thanks for the reply Jeff,

Workflow on a Prism using 3.5.2 with all hacks disabled:

1) Launch Shadow, open Preferences, switch to next window
2) "Reset" current font settings (just to start with a clean slate)
3) Leave Normal as is, switch Bold to large Palm OS standard font. Click OK.
3) Click Ok to save prefs. Current list shows the font changes.
4) Switch to another list and fonts stay with the new settings.
5) Leave Shadow to TealPhone by hitting the Address hard button. It really
doesn't seem to matter which app I switch to, regardless I am not going
through my launcher (SilverScreen)
6) Return to Shadow by hitting my ToDo hard button (mapped).
7) Shadow loads the last list I had open and my bold font has reverted back
to the standard bold font and not the large one previously set.

I have tried switching other prefs (both check boxes and dropdowns) and
switched apps out and back in again and all of these prefs stick.

I have used Filez to look for any Coog prefs files that I can delete and
reset but haven't had any luck. Should I back up my lists and reinstall
Shadow?

I am stumped. Any other trouble shooting tips?

j.




> From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:13:46 -0500 (EST)
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Fonts still not sticking
> 
> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, ::.jay.west wrote:
> 
>> A few weeks ago I reported having trouble with my font prefs not sticking. I
>> had FontBucket installed and when I set an alternative font and then
>> switched to another app and then back to Shadow all my fonts settings seemed
>> to revert back to the Palm OS basic fonts.
>> 
>> I have since removed FontBucket and all traces of fonts and simply tried
>> setting my bold font as another Palm OS base font and it still reverts back
>> to the default fonts. Any idea why this is happening? Jeff, can my
>> preferences be corrupted? All other prefs stick.
> 
> That is just too weird. Your'e the only one who has reported such
> an oddity. I think we went through the motions before but lets check..
> 
> Any Hacks enabled?
> 
>> Prism OS 3.5.2 Shadow 2.1.2b (although it was doing this in previous
>> releases too)
> 
> It was all developed on that configuration (Prism).
> 
> There has to be somethign whacky going on.
> 
> They reset back to normal as soon as you leave Shadow? Not after a
> hotsync or anything?
> 
> What Launcher? Maybe you've got somethign that messes with the
> prefs..
> 
> jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>
4539

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 5:49pm
Subject: RE: Shadow vs Life Balance

 
GTD wasn't mentioned at all?  Why try to send him to an unrelated group?
If he's not using the Getting Things Done System, but is asking about
how Shadow and LifeBalance compare to each other, that just doesn't make
any sense.

Jen

----------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim McPike [mailto:tim@t...]
> I suggest you post this on the GTD_Palm Yahoo Group.
> 
> --- Ralph Alvy <ralvy@c...> wrote:
> > I'm curious how many here have used both Shadow and Life Balance,
and
> > have comments on the differences, strengths of each, etc. I'm a
recently
> > registered user of Shadow, and have tested Life Balance for the last
> > week or so.
> >
> > If this is not the appropriate forum for the discussion, let me
know.
> >
4540

From: aschell98  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Wed Mar 6, 2002 6:35pm
Subject: Re: ToDo - Shadow synchronization

 
> > Which is precisely why I'm anxiously waiting for the import 
unchecked only 
> > feature which Jeff said he might add to the import.  He says to 
keep bugging 
> > him about this, and I plan to do my best ;)
> 
> 	Tee hee :)
> 
> 	I'll see what I can do tonight..
> 
> 		jeff

ooooohhhhh, I'm on the edge of my seat!
4541

From: Russ & Ling  <rnlnero@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 10:31am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, atebata61 wrote:
>
> > been playing with jog-dial - nice!
>
> Someone else recommended the results of the various pushes,
> etc. Kudos to the forum!
>

It's actually very close to standard jog dial behavior.  I figured if I
suggest it first I'll get a better chance of it working the way I want :)

> > If item is selected and has children but is collapsed:
> >    Jog push, expand item to see children
>
> But then how do you get details? Push it to expand, push it again?
>
> >    Back, collapse
>
> I think I'll leave these to the forum and the lad who invented
> most of the jog ideas. (My only contribution was the category popup when
> you hit Back at the file selection screen ;)
>
> > If item is selected AND is allready expanded OR does not have
> > children:
> >    Jog push, Open details window for that item
> >    Back, Deselect item
>

My first reaction was 'that's cool,' but, alas, I don't think it'd work.
The hiccup comes in when you scroll to an already expanded item, decide to
deselect it, and press the Back button.  Instead of deselecting, it's now
collapsed.  Oops.  Don't want to accidentally mess up the view.  It'd be
nice to expand/collapse without the stylus...I haven't figured out how to do
it without introducing unnecessary complexity or other problems.

By the way, I just got my MemoryStick, courtesy of Sony rebate.  VFS works
great.  I also saw the blank name under the Copy/Move to card popup.  Once I
gave the MemoryStick a name (through cardInfo, I think), it shows up in the
popup.  Jeff, you mentioned before you might do a category thingie for the
card.  Is that still on your list?  It would be nice to assign categories to
the card files and have them show up along with internal files, perhaps with
a dot prepended to the name to show it's on external storage (a la
MegaLauncher).

Ling
4542

From: Jacob Share  <jshare@i...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 11:58am
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
I did some testing and I found that international support may work for some users but it probably does not when the OS is non-Latin-oriented (e.g. Hebrew, Sanskrit), even if you are only trying to use Latin-oriented characters (e.g. French, German). If you want to know how I arrived at that conclusion, read on (it's somewhat long, but I think it helps).

I was having the same problem so here's what I did to test international character support:

Hardware & Software:
Desktop:
-Windows XP Hebrew with English Enabled (this means an English interface on the Hebrew version of the OS), with French language settings also enabled
- Visor Prism, OS 3.5.2H1.5, Shadow 2.1.0

On the PDA:
I created a checklist called 'Char Test - PDA' with one item. In the note for that item, I entered all the lower case characters from the OS Int'l keyboard.
On the Desktop:
I created a checklist called 'Char Test - Desktop', with two items. The first item tests French characters and accents. The second item tests Hebrew characters and accents. 

The Testing:
After saving the new file, I tried to reopen it in the Shadow Desktop and I got the error message about a problem on line 9. Windows Notepad revealed that line 9 was where the French characters were. However, in Notepad, they were now replaced with question marks, probably due to the built-in Hebrew support which doesn't recognize these letters (I could still see the Hebrew letters I tested on line 17). I deleted line 9 (removing the French characters) and saved my changes. Upon trying to reopen the file in Desktop, I got the error message about international characters on line 16 (with line 9 gone, 17 was now 16). The Hebrew characters were no good. This wasn't a surprise since I'm pretty sure that Jeff only claims to support Latin-oriented languages like French and German. In Notepad I removed line 16 (the Hebrew). No longer having any international characters, the file now opened easily in Desktop.

I then synchronized.

Now the only thing remained to see how 'Char Test - PDA' would react. Shadow Desktop refused to open it and showed the international error. Going into Notepad I could see the line with the Int'l characters but interestingly enough, they had now been transformed into Hebrew characters.

My conclusion:
International support may work for some users but it does not when the OS is non-Latin-oriented, because then the OS will try to convert the characters to something it is more familiar with and which the Palm OS isn't. One piece of strangeness - the international characters I entered on the Palm were displayed as Hebrew characters in Notepad whereas the same characters I typed directly into Shadow Desktop appeared as question marks in Notepad.

Possible Solutions?
Since Shadow files are XML, I believe that the Shadow Desktop should have no problem displaying ascii symbol codes, like '&amp;', which are normally used in HTML (it's already displaying some of these as it is). Would it be possible for a future Shadow Desktop to convert international characters to their ascii equivalent when one tries to view a Shadow file? (no clue how much work that would entail) I believe this would allow non-Latin-OS-users to view files with Latin international characters.

there ya go

Jacob

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:14 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] desktop files


  On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Anthony Schellenberg wrote:

  > On your desktop, open your xml file in something like notepad.  Make sure 
  > notepad's word wrap is off and count down to line 71.  Take a look at what's 
  > there, perhaps this will give a clue as to what is happening.  Likely there 
  > is some symbol/character that is not being handled properly.  You could cut 
  > and paste the section and post here.

        I dont' think these errors should occur in desktop 2.1, since it
  supports international character sets (more or less). I wonder if I shoud
  llet you guys help more, so I can spend my time working more :)

              jeff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4543

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: What is wrong?

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, ~SS~ wrote:

> I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application. 
> 
> I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet
> supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 71)

	Already answered a few times.

	I'm betting you need to get Shadow 2.1 instead of 2.0; other
replies detail why :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4544

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 1:01pm
Subject: Re: Fonts still not sticking

 
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, ::.jay.west wrote:

> Workflow on a Prism using 3.5.2 with all hacks disabled:
> 
> 1) Launch Shadow, open Preferences, switch to next window
> 2) "Reset" current font settings (just to start with a clean slate)
> 3) Leave Normal as is, switch Bold to large Palm OS standard font. Click OK.
> 3) Click Ok to save prefs. Current list shows the font changes.
> 4) Switch to another list and fonts stay with the new settings.
> 5) Leave Shadow to TealPhone by hitting the Address hard button. It really
> doesn't seem to matter which app I switch to, regardless I am not going
> through my launcher (SilverScreen)
> 6) Return to Shadow by hitting my ToDo hard button (mapped).
> 7) Shadow loads the last list I had open and my bold font has reverted back
> to the standard bold font and not the large one previously set.
> 
> I am stumped. Any other trouble shooting tips?

	Nope; I think our best bet is to let me get dirty with it. IT
sound slike a bug that afflicts only very specific units. I have a "safety
reset fonts" routine that does sanity checks and resets the fonts to
normal if it sees a problem.. chances are thats whats resetting you. The
question is.. what does it think is not right here.

	Anyway, you keep bugging me and I'll get to it in a bit (my
development version is very mcuh in-transit right now :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4545

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 1:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Russ & Ling wrote:

> The hiccup comes in when you scroll to an already expanded item, decide to
> deselect it, and press the Back button.  Instead of deselecting, it's now
> collapsed.  Oops.  Don't want to accidentally mess up the view.  It'd be
> nice to expand/collapse without the stylus...I haven't figured out how to do
> it without introducing unnecessary complexity or other problems.

	Agreed.

> By the way, I just got my MemoryStick, courtesy of Sony rebate.  VFS works
> great.  I also saw the blank name under the Copy/Move to card popup.  Once I
> gave the MemoryStick a name (through cardInfo, I think), it shows up in the
> popup.  Jeff, you mentioned before you might do a category thingie for the

	Ahh; my stick had a default name of "Card" or something.

> card.  Is that still on your list?  It would be nice to assign
> categories to the card files and have them show up along with internal
> files, perhaps with a dot prepended to the name to show it's on
> external storage (a la MegaLauncher).

	I'll likely add a category system, but it will be different than
the handheld categories. ie: When you edit the handheld categories, you're
in an OS routine. You can delete 5 categories, and theres no way I'd know
exactly what happened.. did you rename them, or delete them? No way to
know (and it matters, for file merging, location, etc). So if I add
category support, I either revamp the entire category system (so I dont'
use the OS at all), or I create a second one just for the VFS.. we shall
see.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4546

From: Jacob Share  <jshare@i...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 1:12pm
Subject: Re: What is wrong?

 
Hey Annie, which OS are you using on your computer?

Jacob

Nice ascii signature, btw
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: ~SS~ 
  Cc: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] What is wrong?


  On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, ~SS~ wrote:

  > I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application. 
  > 
  > I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet
  > supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 71)

        Already answered a few times.

        I'm betting you need to get Shadow 2.1 instead of 2.0; other
  replies detail why :)

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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4547

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 1:25pm
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

> I did some testing and I found that international support may work for
> some users but it probably does not when the OS is non-Latin-oriented
> (e.g. Hebrew, Sanskrit), even if you are only trying to use
> Latin-oriented characters (e.g. French, German). If you want to know
> how I arrived at that conclusion, read on (it's somewhat long, but I
> think it helps).

	Its much more complex than that, actually. For example, many many
Chinese and Japanese folks use the desktop with no problem.

	The limiting factor is Windows, actually. Most Windows do not
understand Unicode, and with some you can get a Unicode DLL to make it
understand.. but not all. And that unicode support isn't complete.. its
different on Win95 than Win98. So rather than get into a "your Win98 has
half support of unicode, and your version supports it all..." type
problems, with a huge mess.. I went with a nonunicode approach, since all
Windows support non-Unicode reasonably well. This means that you need
correct fonts for special languages, but that most latin and local
languages work. So if you're using Chinese Windows, you can open up
western and chinese languages. If you're in France, you can open wwestern
languages (including French), but not Chinese -- your Windows just doesn't
understand Chinese encodings.

	It is a very complex topic with a number of worms that I'm only
beginning to understand. Blame Microsoft. And making everythign work for
the entire planet really is complex :)

> I was having the same problem so here's what I did to test
> international character support:
> 
> -Windows XP Hebrew with English Enabled (this means an English
> interface on the Hebrew version of the OS), with French language
> settings also enabled
> - Visor Prism, OS 3.5.2H1.5, Shadow 2.1.0

	Being in Hebrew mode.. Hebrew should work, right?

> I created a checklist called 'Char Test - PDA' with one item. In the
> note for that item, I entered all the lower case characters from the
> OS Int'l keyboard. On the Desktop: I created a checklist called 'Char
> Test - Desktop', with two items. The first item tests French
> characters and accents. The second item tests Hebrew characters and
> accents.
> 
> After saving the new file, I tried to reopen it in the Shadow Desktop
> and I got the error message about a problem on line 9. Windows Notepad
> revealed that line 9 was where the French characters were. However, in
> Notepad, they were now replaced with question marks, probably due to
> the built-in Hebrew support which doesn't recognize these letters (I
> could still see the Hebrew letters I tested on line 17). I deleted
> line 9 (removing the French characters) and saved my changes. Upon
> trying to reopen the file in Desktop, I got the error message about
> international characters on line 16 (with line 9 gone, 17 was now 16).
> The Hebrew characters were no good. This wasn't a surprise since I'm
> pretty sure that Jeff only claims to support Latin-oriented languages
> like French and German. In Notepad I removed line 16 (the Hebrew). No
> longer having any international characters, the file now opened easily
> in Desktop.

	It actually supports much more than Latin; I didn't expect it
would, but it does ;)

> International support may work for some users but it does not when the
> OS is non-Latin-oriented, because then the OS will try to convert the
> characters to something it is more familiar with and which the Palm OS
> isn't. One piece of strangeness - the international characters I
> entered on the Palm were displayed as Hebrew characters in Notepad
> whereas the same characters I typed directly into Shadow Desktop
> appeared as question marks in Notepad.

	Actually, to make it more compatible, Hmm. I'm trying to think of
how to explain it easily, but it doesn't comeout easily so I'll skip it.

	Chinese works because the palm encoding of chinese i the same or
similar as it is on the desktop; Shadow *doesn't know* its talking
chinese.. but it works, because it just assumes its talking "the current
thing".

	So if you're in hebrew mode, hebrew should work for you (though
I've learned Hebrew is the real testing ground; it breaks damned near
everything.. tough language to imeplement I guess).

> Since Shadow files are XML, I believe that the Shadow Desktop should
> have no problem displaying ascii symbol codes, like '&amp;', which are
> normally used in HTML (it's already displaying some of these as it
> is). Would it be possible for a future Shadow Desktop to convert
> international characters to their ascii equivalent when one tries to
> view a Shadow file? (no clue how much work that would entail) I
> believe this would allow non-Latin-OS-users to view files with Latin
> international characters.

	Its much more complex than that; Encoding on disk is one thing,
display is another, and translation another. Consider the range of
characters enterable (65000 or so :), so keeping a big map of translations
to ascii is possible, but ugly.. but you have multiple encodings to
support in text, etc. Getting it back and forth to internal representation
is one part. Displaying it in Windows is a huge pain. Its not lke &amp;
becomes "&" magicly ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4548

From: Tim McPike  <tim@t...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 3:46pm
Subject: RE: Shadow vs Life Balance

 
Yeah, but he liked the group!  Serendipity :)

P.S.  Being over 50, I don't have to make sense any more.

--- PocketGoddess <jen@p...> wrote:
> GTD wasn't mentioned at all?  Why try to send him to an unrelated group?
> If he's not using the Getting Things Done System, but is asking about
> how Shadow and LifeBalance compare to each other, that just doesn't make
> any sense.
> 
> Jen
> 
> ----------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tim McPike [mailto:tim@t...]
> > I suggest you post this on the GTD_Palm Yahoo Group.
> > 
> > --- Ralph Alvy <ralvy@c...> wrote:
> > > I'm curious how many here have used both Shadow and Life Balance,
> and
> > > have comments on the differences, strengths of each, etc. I'm a
> recently
> > > registered user of Shadow, and have tested Life Balance for the last
> > > week or so.
> > >
> > > If this is not the appropriate forum for the discussion, let me
> know.
> > > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


=====
************
Tim McPike
tim@t...

__________________________________________________
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4549

From: Jacob Share  <jshare@i...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 5:36pm
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
>      Being in Hebrew mode.. Hebrew should work, >right?

Actually, my Prism doesn't have Hebrew installed, I only use it in English
and in French. As for Hebrew in general, I think it's tough because it's a
non-Latin character set that's read from right-to-left. Of course there are
other similar languages, like Arabic.

So basically, you think this is a font-oriented solution? How does Shadow
Desktop pick it's display font, or, where do I need to change fonts in the
Display Properties?

Jacob
4550

From: Bert Latamore  <bertlatamore@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 10:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
On my HE 330 the jod dial actually changes the position of items in the list without promoting or demoting them. For instance, say I have the following entries
I Title
   A. Item 1
   B. Item 2
I highlight B and push the Jog dial up and B moves ahead of A, exchanging positions. Any children of B move with it. This is very handy, actually, when editing databases or trying to move an item to the top of a list.
 
Bert
  Russ & Ling <rnlnero@y...> wrote: ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, atebata61 wrote:
>
> > been playing with jog-dial - nice!
>
> Someone else recommended the results of the various pushes,
> etc. Kudos to the forum!
>

It's actually very close to standard jog dial behavior.  I figured if I
suggest it first I'll get a better chance of it working the way I want :)

> > If item is selected and has children but is collapsed:
> >    Jog push, expand item to see children
>
> But then how do you get details? Push it to expand, push it again?
>
> >    Back, collapse
>
> I think I'll leave these to the forum and the lad who invented
> most of the jog ideas. (My only contribution was the category popup when
> you hit Back at the file selection screen ;)
>
> > If item is selected AND is allready expanded OR does not have
> > children:
> >    Jog push, Open details window for that item
> >    Back, Deselect item
>

My first reaction was 'that's cool,' but, alas, I don't think it'd work.
The hiccup comes in when you scroll to an already expanded item, decide to
deselect it, and press the Back button.  Instead of deselecting, it's now
collapsed.  Oops.  Don't want to accidentally mess up the view.  It'd be
nice to expand/collapse without the stylus...I haven't figured out how to do
it without introducing unnecessary complexity or other problems.

By the way, I just got my MemoryStick, courtesy of Sony rebate.  VFS works
great.  I also saw the blank name under the Copy/Move to card popup.  Once I
gave the MemoryStick a name (through cardInfo, I think), it shows up in the
popup.  Jeff, you mentioned before you might do a category thingie for the
card.  Is that still on your list?  It would be nice to assign categories to
the card files and have them show up along with internal files, perhaps with
a dot prepended to the name to show it's on external storage (a la
MegaLauncher).

Ling



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4551

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 7:54pm
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Jacob Share wrote:

> and in French. As for Hebrew in general, I think it's tough because it's a
> non-Latin character set that's read from right-to-left. Of course there are
> other similar languages, like Arabic.
> 
> So basically, you think this is a font-oriented solution? How does Shadow
> Desktop pick it's display font, or, where do I need to change fonts in the
> Display Properties?

	Shadow uses the current default windows font; I will be adding
font selection soon, I've just not had time to do so :(

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4552

From: ffdet  <brad@f...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 10:32pm
Subject: Re: New Item problem

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "ffdet" <brad@f...> wrote:
> 
>  I have had it happen several times but I have yet to try it 
> intentionally ;)  I will do some testing on it in hour or two.  I 
had 
> it happen today in a totally different situation.  It appeared to 
> happen after moving a task from 0% completed to 100% completed on 
the 
> desktop.  When I synced with my Visor it made a duplicate of the 
item 
> I had placed at 100% and then moved everything under it as a 
> sibling.  I'm not sure if that one was just a one time thing or 
what 
> but I'll test that too.  I'll let you know a little later tonight.
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	Is this 100% repeatable? If you get a file which is perfectly 
> in
> > sync on the handheld and desktop, then new item and delete it, 
does 
> it
> > always cause this problem?
> > 
> > 	If so, thats very helpful.. (we've been trying to nab this for
> > awhile :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> >
4553

From: ffdet  <brad@f...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 10:32pm
Subject: Re: New Item problem

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "ffdet" <brad@f...> wrote:
> 
>  I have had it happen several times but I have yet to try it 
> intentionally ;)  I will do some testing on it in hour or two.  I 
had 
> it happen today in a totally different situation.  It appeared to 
> happen after moving a task from 0% completed to 100% completed on 
the 
> desktop.  When I synced with my Visor it made a duplicate of the 
item 
> I had placed at 100% and then moved everything under it as a 
> sibling.  I'm not sure if that one was just a one time thing or 
what 
> but I'll test that too.  I'll let you know a little later tonight.
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	Is this 100% repeatable? If you get a file which is perfectly 
> in
> > sync on the handheld and desktop, then new item and delete it, 
does 
> it
> > always cause this problem?
> > 
> > 	If so, thats very helpful.. (we've been trying to nab this for
> > awhile :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> >
4554

From: ffdet  <brad@f...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 10:33pm
Subject: Re: New Item problem

 
Well, this is frustrating. I had it happening numerous times on 
Tuesday and after an hour of testing last night I can't recreate it.  
I tried every combination of things I could think of but it's not 
acting up anymore.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "ffdet" <brad@f...> wrote:
> 
>  I have had it happen several times but I have yet to try it 
> intentionally ;)  I will do some testing on it in hour or two.  I 
had 
> it happen today in a totally different situation.  It appeared to 
> happen after moving a task from 0% completed to 100% completed on 
the 
> desktop.  When I synced with my Visor it made a duplicate of the 
item 
> I had placed at 100% and then moved everything under it as a 
> sibling.  I'm not sure if that one was just a one time thing or 
what 
> but I'll test that too.  I'll let you know a little later tonight.
> 
> Brad
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	Is this 100% repeatable? If you get a file which is perfectly 
> in
> > sync on the handheld and desktop, then new item and delete it, 
does 
> it
> > always cause this problem?
> > 
> > 	If so, thats very helpful.. (we've been trying to nab this for
> > awhile :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> >
4555

From: quantum_sequoia  <sdwinter@p...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 11:59pm
Subject: Minor Shadow v2.1 bug

 
Just reporting a little display glitch I noticed today - When in the 
New From dialog box, with To Do checked, Shadow shows a list of 
available To Do items. The intent is to scroll through this list and 
pick one to become a Shadow item. It the title of any of the To Do 
items is longer than the width of the list box, the title spills out 
through the scroll bar and beyond. Scrolling the list rewrites the 
scroll bar but leave little text fragments on the right side of the 
scroll bar.
4556

From: Bert Latamore  <bertlatamore@y...>
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 10:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
I just wanted to confirm that I have the beta of Shadow running on my HE330, totally off a CF card. The HE 330 uses an application called "AutoCard" to run applications directly from the card and provide access to databases for apps that are not VFS-enabled. I have Shadow in this folder. THen I have all my Shadow documents, including active documents to which I am writing regularly, running in the Shadow subdirectory. So far everything is running perfectly. The only difference I notice is that Shadow is slower closing a document as it reads it back to the card.
This is a very satisfactory solution!
Bert



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4557

From: cptguy@a...
Date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 10:22pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 423

 
In a message dated 3/7/2002 2:48:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com writes:


> Message: 10
>    Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:12:49 -0500 (EST)
>    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Fonts still not sticking
> 
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Scott Holmes wrote:
> 
> > I don't have any hacks and I don't have Hackmaster installed.  I don't 
> use a
> > launcher, just the default Palm Application Launcher.
> 
>     Where did you get fontbucket from? My site or another? Perhaps
> there are multiple versions of it floating around..
> 
> > I did install all the FontBucket fonts and then delete the fonts I did 
> not want
> > to use.  When I go to the font picker I see 4 Palm OS fonts installed
> >    Palm OS   9
> >    Palm OS B 9
> >    Palm OS   12
> >    Palm OS B 12
> > (are these font bucket fonts or are these the standard Palm OS fonts?)  
> These
> > seem to be the fonts that are being defaulted back to,
> >    for Normal it is Palm OS   9
> >    for Bold it is Palm OS B 9
> 
>     Those are all built in fonts; if thats all you see, then you're
> not seeing any font bucket font packs.
> 
> > The fonts revert back as soon as I leave Shadow but are not affected
> > by powering off and powering on.
> 
>     Revert back? These are built ins..
> 
>         jeff
> 
> 

I am having the same problem, fonts not sticking. Using Font Bucket v1.01 are 
there later versions? using shadow 2.1.2 + native apps + DB4. etc.Thanks in 
advance for any help.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4558

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 8:27am
Subject: Return 2 Shadow hangup

 
Jeff,

I'm only posting this because I know someone else posted a similar
effect some time ago.  I'll tell you up front I have not been able to
repeat it yet, so I'm not sure its a bug.

Kyocera 6035, OS 3.5.1, SP v2.1.2 (new beta)

I was in a meeting taking notes in a new file (unsaved), created a
Todo on a note I had, jumped out set the details (DBK4 stable beta
5.0a pL), setup my Linker (hack) jump back in the note using the handy
SP label there...

Here I lost track, but I think I jumped back with the Linker link then
realized I forgot an icon, used Goto Link again, then the Home button
to get back. (I think...)

Kept on taking notes without explicitly saving.  When done, just hit
Home to go play in DateBk and I got.  "You must select an entry first"
(its the message you get when you don't have an item selected and you
hit a "move item" icon)

I selected an item, hit Home, screen flashed (replot) undoing
highlight, repeat ad infinitum...

Closed the file, got file screen, hit Home, screen flashed, repeat ad
infinitum...

Hit "Phone" silk-screen button (remember its a Kyocera, no calc
button), got the Phone app, (ok!) hit Home, up comes SP, .... arghhh!
 
I could not get out of SP!  I did a soft reset.  Up comes SP instead
of my Launcher!  Hit Home, can't get out...  ooooh nooooo!

Went to preferences and unchecked "return to shadow after goto" and
got a dialog box with a message about "...some models don't like
this...".  Went back, jumped out to Todo and hit Home from DBK4, got
my Launcher ... finally!

Question, did that dialog box with the model variation warning now
apply to me since you changed something in 2.1.2?  I have not changed
anything on my Palm except for the most recent beta of DBK4, which is
almost release level, very stable...

I realize I use hacks, but I've used the same version hacks for months
now without this problem...

If I manage to recreate this I'll give you an exact sequence.

Ken
4559

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 1:17pm
Subject: Re: Minor Shadow v2.1 bug

 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, quantum_sequoia wrote:

> Just reporting a little display glitch I noticed today - When in the
> New From dialog box, with To Do checked, Shadow shows a list of
> available To Do items. The intent is to scroll through this list and
> pick one to become a Shadow item. It the title of any of the To Do
> items is longer than the width of the list box, the title spills out
> through the scroll bar and beyond. Scrolling the list rewrites the
> scroll bar but leave little text fragments on the right side of the
> scroll bar.

	Gotcha; added to my list :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4560

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Bert Latamore wrote:

>  I just wanted to confirm that I have the beta of Shadow running on my
> HE330, totally off a CF card. The HE 330 uses an application called
> "AutoCard" to run applications directly from the card and provide
> access to databases for apps that are not VFS-enabled. I have Shadow
> in this folder. THen I have all my Shadow documents, including active
> documents to which I am writing regularly, running in the Shadow
> subdirectory. So far everything is running perfectly. The only
> difference I notice is that Shadow is slower closing a document as it
> reads it back to the card.

	Excellent! For my Clie, I'm using PiDirect successfully to run
Shadow from card, though I keep most of my data internal (so I can use
categories). Though less used and big shadow docs I keep off in
cardspace..

	I will have to add categories to the card sometime.

> This is a very satisfactory solution!

	Glad to hear!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4561

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 423

 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 cptguy@a... wrote:

> I am having the same problem, fonts not sticking. Using Font Bucket v1.01 are 
> there later versions? using shadow 2.1.2 + native apps + DB4. etc.Thanks in 
> advance for any help.

	I will investigate in a bit, as I am working on the font subsystem
soon..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4562

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 1:37pm
Subject: Re: Return 2 Shadow hangup

 
On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:

> Kept on taking notes without explicitly saving.  When done, just hit
> Home to go play in DateBk and I got.  "You must select an entry first"
> (its the message you get when you don't have an item selected and you
> hit a "move item" icon)

	In Shadow you mean?

> Question, did that dialog box with the model variation warning now
> apply to me since you changed something in 2.1.2?  I have not changed

	Nope. Its really a weird flukey thing which I've not nailed down
to the cause.. it more or less looks like 3rd party apps or hacks that can
interfere with the normal way of things.

	I wonder..

	If you do a goto from Shadow to some other app, with the Return
pref on. Then yo use linker to return to Shadow by tapping on some text to
return to.. does this problem then occur? Loading Shadow normally will
cause it to undo its "I am launcher" flag.. but perhaps if you jump into
shadow using a hack or find or the like, it can confuse the "launcher
undo" mechanism..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4563

From: Samuel J. Radcliffe  <samr@g...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 2:55pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available

 
Note that this behavior occurs when you have jog dial pref set to 'next
field'. If you set it to 'page up', then you get scrolling in SP.

...Sam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bert Latamore [mailto:bertlatamore@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:15 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow 2.1.2 BETA available
>
>
>
>  On my HE 330 the jod dial actually changes the position of items
> in the list without promoting or demoting them. For instance, say
> I have the following entries
> I Title
>    A. Item 1
>    B. Item 2
> I highlight B and push the Jog dial up and B moves ahead of A,
> exchanging positions. Any children of B move with it. This is
> very handy, actually, when editing databases or trying to move an
> item to the top of a list.
>
> Bert
>   Russ & Ling <rnlnero@y...> wrote: ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
>
> > On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, atebata61 wrote:
> >
> > > been playing with jog-dial - nice!
> >
> > Someone else recommended the results of the various pushes,
> > etc. Kudos to the forum!
> >
>
> It's actually very close to standard jog dial behavior.  I figured if I
> suggest it first I'll get a better chance of it working the way I want :)
>
> > > If item is selected and has children but is collapsed:
> > >    Jog push, expand item to see children
> >
> > But then how do you get details? Push it to expand, push it again?
> >
> > >    Back, collapse
> >
> > I think I'll leave these to the forum and the lad who invented
> > most of the jog ideas. (My only contribution was the category popup when
> > you hit Back at the file selection screen ;)
> >
> > > If item is selected AND is allready expanded OR does not have
> > > children:
> > >    Jog push, Open details window for that item
> > >    Back, Deselect item
> >
>
> My first reaction was 'that's cool,' but, alas, I don't think it'd work.
> The hiccup comes in when you scroll to an already expanded item, decide to
> deselect it, and press the Back button.  Instead of deselecting, it's now
> collapsed.  Oops.  Don't want to accidentally mess up the view.  It'd be
> nice to expand/collapse without the stylus...I haven't figured
> out how to do
> it without introducing unnecessary complexity or other problems.
>
> By the way, I just got my MemoryStick, courtesy of Sony rebate.  VFS works
> great.  I also saw the blank name under the Copy/Move to card
> popup.  Once I
> gave the MemoryStick a name (through cardInfo, I think), it shows
> up in the
> popup.  Jeff, you mentioned before you might do a category thingie for the
> card.  Is that still on your list?  It would be nice to assign
> categories to
> the card files and have them show up along with internal files,
> perhaps with
> a dot prepended to the name to show it's on external storage (a la
> MegaLauncher).
>
> Ling
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
4564

From: Samuel J. Radcliffe  <samr@g...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 5:19pm
Subject: Item Type Feature Request

 
Jeff,

When I'm rapidly inputting info to SP, I'm often just trying to get down all
of the fleeting thoughts. I'm creating parents and children, and moving
things around, etc. When the action slows down, and I settle back to see
what I've accomplished, only then do I worry about the details of items, and
I go back to adjust formatting, numbering, and item type. One thing I'd like
to be able to do is give the same item type to all children under an item,
without having to go to each child individually and changing its type. This
would be similar to the Auto # option that is found in the item details,
where you can change the numbering for an entire set of children all at
once. Of course, I would like to keep the ability to change only an
individual item's type. What's the possibility of adding this feature?

...Sam
4565

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Item Type Feature Request

 
On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Samuel J. Radcliffe wrote:

> what I've accomplished, only then do I worry about the details of items, and
> I go back to adjust formatting, numbering, and item type. One thing I'd like
> to be able to do is give the same item type to all children under an item,
> without having to go to each child individually and changing its type. This
> would be similar to the Auto # option that is found in the item details,
> where you can change the numbering for an entire set of children all at
> once. Of course, I would like to keep the ability to change only an
> individual item's type. What's the possibility of adding this feature?

	Sounds like a pref, and I'm leary of mroe prefs at this time.

	(I'm tempted to start removing prefs too; see if most people use
number or bubble priorities, and take out that pref, for example. Start
simplying the interface, but keeping it powerful.. *shrug*)

	An item will take on the type of the preceeding item.. so if
you're careful with your item types at entry time, it'll work as you
want. ITs just going back makes it difficult :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4566

From: Samuel J. Radcliffe  <samr@g...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 6:42pm
Subject: RE: Item Type Feature Request

 
OK, instead of a pref, how about an action (edit menu?) that changes all
sibling types to the first sibling type? Anybody else find this useful? If
nobody cares, I'll go away...

...Sam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:28 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Item Type Feature Request
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Samuel J. Radcliffe wrote:
>
> > what I've accomplished, only then do I worry about the details
> of items, and
> > I go back to adjust formatting, numbering, and item type. One
> thing I'd like
> > to be able to do is give the same item type to all children
> under an item,
> > without having to go to each child individually and changing
> its type. This
> > would be similar to the Auto # option that is found in the item details,
> > where you can change the numbering for an entire set of children all at
> > once. Of course, I would like to keep the ability to change only an
> > individual item's type. What's the possibility of adding this feature?
>
> 	Sounds like a pref, and I'm leary of mroe prefs at this time.
>
> 	(I'm tempted to start removing prefs too; see if most people use
> number or bubble priorities, and take out that pref, for example. Start
> simplying the interface, but keeping it powerful.. *shrug*)
>
> 	An item will take on the type of the preceeding item.. so if
> you're careful with your item types at entry time, it'll work as you
> want. ITs just going back makes it difficult :/
>
> 		jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
4567

From: steveatuh  <spielman@h...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Synch @ Home and @ Work?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
 
> 	I will be adding desktop overwrites handheld and vice versa, 
so
> you get some control over things. Most people don't know what those 
do, so
> I didn't implement them originally.. but we definitely need them to
> eliminate issues with multiple machines. (The reason we have 
problems is
> that Shadow data is so much more complex than the built ins. 
They're a
> walk in the park.. Shadow data is all relational which makes it 
nasty).
> 
> 	Bear with me; We have handheld only users, and desktop + 
handheld
> users. And the desktop folks pull me two directions (or more ;).. 
adding
> features, and fixing multi-desktop. But I had to fix international 
support
> first, since 40% of our users are in Europe.. oh, it was so easy 
when it
> was only on the handheld ;) (And dont' forget the mac and uni folks 
who
> want their version finished..)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
You're doing a great job of pleasing so many users.  Shadow Plan is 
useful in so many ways to a lot of different users.  It's amazing to 
me what you've done.  How many programmers would it take Microsoft to 
do what you are doing and how much RAM would it take to run their 
code?

Thanks again,

Steve Spielman
4568

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 7:16pm
Subject: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
When I copy a bunch of items into the clip then paste them into another 
list, the pasted items do not show up until I close the new list and 
re-open it. Am I missing something?

Ken Gordon
4569

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 8:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: New Item problem

 
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, ffdet wrote:

>  Well, this is frustrating. I had it happening numerous times on
> Tuesday and after an hour of testing last night I can't recreate it.  
> I tried every combination of things I could think of but it's not
> acting up anymore.

	Yeah, thats the problem -- its impossible to find when you want to
demonstrate it. That makes it difficult to debug :/

		jeff

> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "ffdet" <brad@f...> wrote:
> > 
> >  I have had it happen several times but I have yet to try it 
> > intentionally ;)  I will do some testing on it in hour or two.  I 
> had 
> > it happen today in a totally different situation.  It appeared to 
> > happen after moving a task from 0% completed to 100% completed on 
> the 
> > desktop.  When I synced with my Visor it made a duplicate of the 
> item 
> > I had placed at 100% and then moved everything under it as a 
> > sibling.  I'm not sure if that one was just a one time thing or 
> what 
> > but I'll test that too.  I'll let you know a little later tonight.
> > 
> > Brad
> > 
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 	Is this 100% repeatable? If you get a file which is perfectly 
> > in
> > > sync on the handheld and desktop, then new item and delete it, 
> does 
> > it
> > > always cause this problem?
> > > 
> > > 	If so, thats very helpful.. (we've been trying to nab this for
> > > awhile :)
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4570

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 8, 2002 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:

> When I copy a bunch of items into the clip then paste them into another 
> list, the pasted items do not show up until I close the new list and 
> re-open it. Am I missing something?

	I'm betting you've got a filter on?

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4571

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 0:29am
Subject: Re: Item Type Feature Request

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Samuel J. Radcliffe wrote:
> 
<snip>
> 
> 	Sounds like a pref, and I'm leary of more prefs at this time.
> 
> 	(I'm tempted to start removing prefs too; see if most people
> use number or bubble priorities, and take out that pref, for
example.
> Start simplying the interface, but keeping it powerful.. *shrug*)
> 
> 	An item will take on the type of the preceeding item.. so if
> you're careful with your item types at entry time, it'll work as you
> want. ITs just going back makes it difficult :/
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

Jeff,

I know this doesn't simplify *your* work, and I'm not saying this
*just because* some other app did it... but... ( you knew that was
coming :) )

... CESD organized his (many) prefs (DBK4) into a tabbed interface,
and while he actually added prefs, the interface feels much simpler.

Just a suggestion... 'cause I'd hate to lose that bubble/number pref
myself... I have a feeling I'm on the wrong side of *that* popularity
contest!


Ken
4572

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 0:16am
Subject: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
Does that make a difference?
On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 02:00  PM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:
>
>> When I copy a bunch of items into the clip then paste them into another
>> list, the pasted items do not show up until I close the new list and
>> re-open it. Am I missing something?
>
> 	I'm betting you've got a filter on?
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
4573

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 0:21am
Subject: Re: Return 2 Shadow hangup

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:
> 
> > Kept on taking notes without explicitly saving.  When done, just
hit
> > Home to go play in DateBk and I got.  "You must select an entry
first"
> > (its the message you get when you don't have an item selected and
you
> > hit a "move item" icon)
> 
> 	In Shadow you mean?

Yes, this was after I returned to Shadow and kept taking more notes.
Only when trying to leave Shadow did I realize it had a "death grip"
on the "I'm a Launcher flag".  Strange that I got the universal, "you
gotta pick somthin'" message used by the button bar.

> 
> > Question, did that dialog box with the model variation warning now
> > apply to me since you changed something in 2.1.2?  I have not
changed
> 
> 	Nope. Its really a weird flukey thing which I've not nailed down
> to the cause.. it more or less looks like 3rd party apps or hacks
that can
> interfere with the normal way of things.
> 
> 	I wonder..
> 
> 	If you do a goto from Shadow to some other app, with the Return
> pref on. Then yo use linker to return to Shadow by tapping on some
text to
> return to.. does this problem then occur? Loading Shadow normally
will
> cause it to undo its "I am launcher" flag.. but perhaps if you jump
into
> shadow using a hack or find or the like, it can confuse the
"launcher
> undo" mechanism..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
<snip>

That's what I thought, but...I've tried this scenario several dozen
times in varying ways.  Nothing I do now seems to make it happen. 
Could just be fluke or a very slow membug in one of the hacks, or
maybe a randome one.  If its in your app its gonna be a b*t*h to find!

The weirdest part was that once the launcher flag was "locked in the
ON position", no amount of jumping out and back would reset it.  So
that part of it may be SP, 'cause SP wouldn't reset it even after a
soft reset.  The only way I could force it to let go was to turn off
the "jump back" option, so there is a little sanity there.

Could it have something to do with the way my replacement launcher is
enforcing its grip on replacing the Palm launcher, maybe?

Personally, I'm not gonna worry about it, unless it starts happening
regularly.  I'm chaulking it off as a "hack bug", just because this
"MegaWiki" linkback idea uses two hacks to setup (Linker & Find). 
Only plausible theory I have is that it may have had something to do
with the Find Hack trying to search in an "unsaved" SP file... but I'm
guessing now.

Ken
4574

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 3:45am
Subject: Re: Re: Item Type Feature Request

 
On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:

> ... CESD organized his (many) prefs (DBK4) into a tabbed interface,
> and while he actually added prefs, the interface feels much simpler.

	Its work to build, and I think the rotating interface for prefs I
have now is pretty good. And most peopel really hate even seeing that
options exist. It bothers me that sometimes I see people telling other
people not to look at Shadow because it has too many options. Bizarre but
true. Like too many choices is bad.. and you know, they could be right for
some of our options :)

> Just a suggestion... 'cause I'd hate to lose that bubble/number pref
> myself... I have a feeling I'm on the wrong side of *that* popularity
> contest!

	Half the options are there because *I* like them.. by gum :) I
like bubbles :)

	Really, some options could go, they may just be gratuitous; still
others need a revamp. Due to how things evolved, the location of a pref is
confusing.. is it global, list option, or custom list? 

	I need to renail down all those into a more consistent system; the
globla prefs have to act like the list prefs, despite being different
types of prefs. And the different between Custom and Options needs to be
erased or made obvious..

	But such is life of a quickly evolving application :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4575

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 3:48am
Subject: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:

> Does that make a difference?

	Sure, if its a filter that hides everything you're pasting ;)

	(Or perhaps the items pasted are not scanned and thus "never
match" the filter).

	When someone brings up items not showing up, filters definitely
are the first thing to check.

		jeff

> On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 02:00  PM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:
> >
> >> When I copy a bunch of items into the clip then paste them into another
> >> list, the pasted items do not show up until I close the new list and
> >> re-open it. Am I missing something?
> >
> > 	I'm betting you've got a filter on?
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4576

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 3:50am
Subject: Re: Re: Return 2 Shadow hangup

 
On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:

> The weirdest part was that once the launcher flag was "locked in the
> ON position", no amount of jumping out and back would reset it.  So
> that part of it may be SP, 'cause SP wouldn't reset it even after a
> soft reset.  The only way I could force it to let go was to turn off
> the "jump back" option, so there is a little sanity there.

	Well, the issue is that Shadow can't tell what your launcher
should be; you can set any program you want to be your launcher (which is
how replacement launchers work). So if your launcher is set to Shadow, how
is Shadow to know its not supposed to be, and what it should be?

	(ie: With goto/return on, Shadow sets itself as the launcher of
choice, and stores the existing launcher. When it returns, it puts the set
one back. If Shadow is itself the launcher and didnt' set the launcher and
store the current one, it doesn't know how to set it back, or what to,
right? And one cannot set it to the default, since.. maybe you've set it
the current way on your own)

> Personally, I'm not gonna worry about it, unless it starts happening
> regularly.  I'm chaulking it off as a "hack bug", just because this
> "MegaWiki" linkback idea uses two hacks to setup (Linker & Find).  
> Only plausible theory I have is that it may have had something to do
> with the Find Hack trying to search in an "unsaved" SP file... but I'm
> guessing now.

	"Find Hack" has all sorts of bugs, actually.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4577

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 5:33am
Subject: Re: Item Type Feature Request

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:
> 
> > ... CESD organized his (many) prefs (DBK4) into a tabbed interface,
> > and while he actually added prefs, the interface feels much simpler.
> 
> Its work to build, and I think the rotating interface for prefs I
> have now is pretty good. And most peopel really hate even seeing that
> options exist. It bothers me that sometimes I see people telling 
> other people not to look at Shadow because it has too many options. 
> Bizarre but true. Like too many choices is bad.. and you know, they 
> could be right for some of our options :)
>

Possibly, I didn't really change many when I got it and still haven't
but I not your average run-of-the-mill user... at least I'd like to
*think* so :)

> > Just a suggestion... 'cause I'd hate to lose that bubble/number 
> > pref myself... I have a feeling I'm on the wrong side of *that*
> > popularity contest!
> 
> 	Half the options are there because *I* like them.. by gum :) I
> like bubbles :)
> 
> 	Really, some options could go, they may just be gratuitous;
> still others need a revamp. Due to how things evolved, the location
> of a pref is confusing.. is it global, list option, or custom list? 
> 
> 	I need to renail down all those into a more consistent system;
> the globla prefs have to act like the list prefs, despite being
> different types of prefs. And the different between Custom and
> Options needs to be erased or made obvious..
> 
> 	But such is life of a quickly evolving application :)
> 
> 		jeff
<snip>

Have you mulled over the possiblity of two apps, one "simple" the
other at a higher price for ... uh... geeks...

I would think you could maintain the condition that the "simple" app
is a subset of the code for the complicated one.  Just select the
popular options and preset them...it'd at least get rid of most of the
preference screens... :)

I certainly would have paid more than $13 dollars for what you offer
now.  I just say a higher price because the audience would most likely
be smaller for the "geek" version ...

Ken
4578

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 5:56am
Subject: Re: Return 2 Shadow hangup

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:
> 
<snip>
> 	Well, the issue is that Shadow can't tell what your launcher
> should be; you can set any program you want to be your launcher
> (which is how replacement launchers work). So if your launcher is
> set to Shadow, how is Shadow to know its not supposed to be, and
> what it should be?
> 
> 	(ie: With goto/return on, Shadow sets itself as the launcher of
> choice, and stores the existing launcher. When it returns, it puts
> the set one back. If Shadow is itself the launcher and didnt' set
> the launcher and store the current one, it doesn't know how to set
> it back, or what to, right? And one cannot set it to the default,
> since.. maybe you've set it the current way on your own)
> 

Excuse me for not knowing the internals, but it seems that if SP saves
the current launcher and finds it to be equal to what it is going to
set (ie. it knows that the "existing launcher" is SP).  Isn't that, in
and of itself, an error.  You *know* that SP is a lot of things, but
its not a Launcher!  Besides, you don't allow a setting of "defualt
launcher" so how *could* it be?

I'll agree that on jump *out* you may be overwriting SP with SP cause
you don't how you got started ( say by a Linker link...:) ), but when
you're trying to return control to *my* Launcher, you should say "I
lost track, setting OS launcher"... or something to that effect.

I hate to say it...but it sounds like you need a **setting** for me to
set the "default" launcher.  I would go through the trouble of keeping
track of that if it meant that I could keep "jump back"... even if the
option is only there for "quirky" conditions...

Or maybe you could read it once the first run after a sync or power on
and save it somewhere as the "restore" value...


<snip>

 
> 	"Find Hack" has all sorts of bugs, actually.
>

Has seemed very stable to me.  And its getting active work, why would
you keep telling me that (this is the 2nd time) ... do you use it?  I
mean "hacks" get a bad rap, they're not really hacks to the OS, the OS
was designed to allow these kinds of things.  (I've been reading...)

The only thing to really watch out for is "overlapping" hacks, and if
I understand what TealMaster is capable of... I should be ok. 
Besides, I've checked, no hacks on the same "hooks".

I'll agree they look harder to get right because they have to be
*very* robust, but then so does a Launcher and nobody really blames
Launchers that often for things they could, quite reasonably, be
responsible for...
 
Ken
4579

From: Manyawind@a...
Date: Sat Mar 9, 2002 9:49am
Subject: Re: Options

 
In a message dated 3/9/2002 1:38:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com writes:


> It bothers me that sometimes I see people telling other
> people not to look at Shadow because it has too many options. Bizarre but
> true. Like too many choices is bad.. and you know, they could be right for
> some of our options :)
> 

I'm a new user of Shadow Plan and I love it!  I'd hate to think about losing
pref's - (I think about another program I have frustrates me with the 
decisions they
make about what they will and will not do.)   I thought DB4 would be
great, but I gave up halfway through reading the 94-page manual.  (Even 
though I'd already
paid!)    Talk about being overwhelmed with options!  I'm a busy person and I 
got a
PDA to save time - not to spend a week reading a manual deciding how I wanted
to set myself up.   So DB4 sits on my Palm and I use another app for my 
Datebook...

Shadow Plan is awesome though, making my Palm a real productivity tool, 
rather than just a
glorified calendar and address book.  Keep up the great work, but don't 
compromise your
strengths.  You've got a strong reputation for responsiveness and listening 
to your users' needs.  Don't 
put that at risk just because some people are afraid to try you because you 
have too many "options."
Your program is one of the easiest out there to use - I was using it as an 
outliner for days before I even read the manual - and it's much more 
intuitive than many of the outliners and listmakers out there that are far 
less powerful.

Just had to put my two cents in.

Shadow's the best program on my Palm.  Please don't change that.

Janice


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
4580

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 2:45am
Subject: Re: Re: Return 2 Shadow hangup

 
On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:

> Excuse me for not knowing the internals, but it seems that if SP saves
> the current launcher and finds it to be equal to what it is going to
> set (ie. it knows that the "existing launcher" is SP).  Isn't that, in
> and of itself, an error.  You *know* that SP is a lot of things, but
> its not a Launcher!  Besides, you don't allow a setting of "defualt
> launcher" so how *could* it be?

	Yeah, I was thinking about this as I wrote that email; Shadow sets
itself as launcher. When it sees itself as launcher, it puts back the
stored launcher setting. We coudl check to see if the stored launcher is
Shadow and then go "hmm" and at least put it back to the default launcher,
since that'd fix most problems. Sounds good.

> I hate to say it...but it sounds like you need a **setting** for me to
> set the "default" launcher.  I would go through the trouble of keeping
> track of that if it meant that I could keep "jump back"... even if the
> option is only there for "quirky" conditions...

	Naah; I think having Shadow realize its in a pathological loop and
just set the default launcher is better; I'd bet 80% of folks use the
default launcher, and those that dont' know enough to just tap their
launcher and they're good to go again.

> Or maybe you could read it once the first run after a sync or power on
> and save it somewhere as the "restore" value...

	Too unreliable.

> > 	"Find Hack" has all sorts of bugs, actually.
> 
> Has seemed very stable to me.  And its getting active work, why would
> you keep telling me that (this is the 2nd time) ... do you use it?  I

	I don't use it. IF it has had updates, it may be better. I do know
(from the thousands of emails I've had in private and in the forums) that
there have been many times that various weird things have been going on
and that disabling findhack fixed everything up. It has been known to
even stop syncs from happening.. very weird.

> mean "hacks" get a bad rap, they're not really hacks to the OS, the OS
> was designed to allow these kinds of things.  (I've been reading...)

	"Hacks" don't have a bad rap; specific ones do. Try using
PhlegmHack for awhile and see how fun your palm experience is.. then you
go to McFling (descended directly from PhlegmHack) and you go
"ahhhhh!". So its a case by case basis.

	Its also much easier to make a bad hack; they most definitely are
hacks to the OS -- they don't modify the code per se (its in rom), but
they modify the code paths, and can corcumvent or replace OS
routines. Thast modifying the OS :)

	ie: A program calls an OS function; the function is looked up in a
table (give me function 37 is what a program does, more or less). The
table is in RAM and can be modified. So a hack says "I'll replace
operation 37 with myself!". It may then call the original operation 37 if
it wishes to, or skip it and replace it entirely. But it gets nasty when
you have a hack which takes 37,and another hack which takes 37. Both are
activated, and only one can get called properly, and variosu bizarre
things can happen. But consider if you replace a routine called by all
kidsn fo things (hacks or other apps).. and if it loses a bygte of ram
once in awhile, or slows something down, or slightly effects the operation
of events.. then things can go wrong way later that do not look like a
hacks fault.. but are.

	So hacks are easy to write, and easy to screw up the OS :/

	Hacks are good; I use a half dozen. But when there is a problem
the first thing you do is disable the hacks. 90% of the time, they're the
culprit :/ (And usually just one out of your 20 installed ones :/)

> The only thing to really watch out for is "overlapping" hacks, and if
> I understand what TealMaster is capable of... I should be ok.  
> Besides, I've checked, no hacks on the same "hooks".

	That helps. But thats a pretty rare problem.

	Consider.. what if I wrote a useful hack that intercepted certain
grafitti strokes, popped up a box and let you pick a program and then
launched it. Fine. But its changing the way the OS grafitti works, the
event flow for grafitti and dialog operations, and changing what happens
when you do certain things. Thats a massive set of very easy to implement
changes.. but a very severe set of changes. You must be very careful or
you'll break all sorts of things..

> I'll agree they look harder to get right because they have to be
> *very* robust, but then so does a Launcher and nobody really blames
> Launchers that often for things they could, quite reasonably, be
> responsible for...

	A launcher is only running when its running. A hack is running all
the time. That is the issue.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4581

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:40am
Subject: Re: Return 2 Shadow hangup

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:
> 
> > Excuse me for not knowing the internals, but it seems that if SP
saves
<snip>
> > responsible for...
> 
> 	A launcher is only running when its running. A hack is running all
> the time. That is the issue.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
<snip>

Thanks, for going out of your way to give me a lesson on Palm hacks. 
(I'm serious)

(1) I obviously need to do a lot more reading..
(2) I appologize for not marking this OT

Ken
4582

From: ~SS~  <annie@b...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 11:50am
Subject: Re: desktop files

 
Thanks everyone for answering. After I posted this, my ISP went down,
and I couldn't get to my email or online. So, to bring you up to date. I
did as Jeff suggested and installed the newest version (he was right...I
was running V2.0). Now I am able to open the file in question from
Shadow Desktop with no problem!!! Sorry it took so long to respond.
annie . )) -::-
             . .))
            ((. .   -::-
            -::- ((.* http://anniebluesky.tripod.com
                                   ...computer tidbits...

>I am unable to open a shadow file from the desktop application.
>
>I get this message: Could not open file! Perhaps found not yet
>supported international characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line
>71)
>
>Just an added note. I am able to open other shadow files were created
>on the handheld. This one I created on the desktop a few days ago. I
>can view it on the handheld, but cannot open it on the desktop. If
>naming is a problem, it has a simple name "McDougall" without the
>quotes. And it reads "ShadowP-McDougall.XML" on the computer.
>
>thanks...
>annie . )) -::-
>              . .))
>             ((. .   -::-
>             -::- ((.* http://anniebluesky.tripod.com
>                                    ...computer tidbits...
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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4583

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:33pm
Subject: Poll results for shadow-discuss

 
The following shadow-discuss poll is now closed.  Here are the 
final results: 


POLL QUESTION: Normally the Details window will reveal
only information available to all items
or to the item's current type. For
example, on a Note item, you don't see
Priority or Progress in Details. Of
course, being Shadow, you can customize
the heck out of your display (especially
with Custom items, or overriding items
so that items are different view type
than their list is), so you may wish to
suppress information on your display,
but still be able to edit it in Details.
However, revealing all info, all of the
time, in Details, will make for a more
intimidating and complex Details
window.. a Note list will then show
*everything* in Details, as would every
other list. This can be handy for some,
a hinderance to others. So how would you
prefer it? 

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Details shows info appropriate to item type (like normal), 19 votes, 29.69%  
- Details shows *everything*, always, 11 votes, 17.19%  
- Details shows *everything* based on a List Option, 34 votes, 53.12%  



For more information about this group, please visit 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss 

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/
4584

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:32pm
Subject: Coloured background?

 
"Col-bg" is a checkbox you can activate or deactivate on the List
Preferences screen for each list. (open a list, hit the List pulldown
menu, and then hit Preferences. Col-bg is on the middle right).

	Does everyone turn it on? Does everyone turn it off? IS there
anyone who actually prefers not to have col-bg on?

	(It only works on colour units at this time)

	I'm tempted to remove the pref and always have col-bg on.

	(BTW, the upcoming beta of Shadow supports Clie highres, so the
col-bg causing highres assist to wedge isn't a problem)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4585

From: aschell98  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:27am
Subject: Re: Coloured background?

 
I like it on for most lists, but like to turn it off for things that are
more like written outlines as opposed to checklist type stuff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:32 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Coloured background?


>
> "Col-bg" is a checkbox you can activate or deactivate on the List
> Preferences screen for each list. (open a list, hit the List pulldown
> menu, and then hit Preferences. Col-bg is on the middle right).
>
> Does everyone turn it on? Does everyone turn it off? IS there
> anyone who actually prefers not to have col-bg on?
>
> (It only works on colour units at this time)
>
> I'm tempted to remove the pref and always have col-bg on.
>
> (BTW, the upcoming beta of Shadow supports Clie highres, so the
> col-bg causing highres assist to wedge isn't a problem)
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
4586

From: aschell98  <aschell2000@h...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:41am
Subject: Re: Coloured background?

 
Oh yeah, I'll bug you again for the todo import only unchecked feature ;)
4587

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:46am
Subject: Re: Coloured background?

 
On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, aschell98 wrote:

> I like it on for most lists, but like to turn it off for things that are
> more like written outlines as opposed to checklist type stuff

	Hmm. A good point.. good enough I'll leave it alone.

	One of these days I am going to move all the options around though
:)

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4588

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:11am
Subject: Re: Coloured background?

 
On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, aschell98 wrote:

> Oh yeah, I'll bug you again for the todo import only unchecked feature ;)

	Check the beta announcement for 2.1.3 in about 5 minutes ;)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4589

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:41am
Subject: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
The filter is "unchecked items," i.e. hide checked items.  The items 
being imported are unchecked, so I would expect them to display. That's 
what I meant when I said the the behaviour is unexpected.

But I take it from the second part of your reply that scanning only 
happens when the list is opened or when an item's status changes. 
Understanding that makes the behaviour less unexpected, but still a bit 
quirky IMHO.


On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 08:48  PM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:
>
>> Does that make a difference?
>
> 	Sure, if its a filter that hides everything you're pasting ;)
>
> 	(Or perhaps the items pasted are not scanned and thus "never
> match" the filter).
>
> 	When someone brings up items not showing up, filters definitely
> are the first thing to check.
>
> 		jeff
>
>> On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 02:00  PM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I copy a bunch of items into the clip then paste them into 
>>>> another
>>>> list, the pasted items do not show up until I close the new list and
>>>> re-open it. Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> 	I'm betting you've got a filter on?
>>>
>>> --
>>> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
>>> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
>>> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
>>> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
4590

From: rvanderwoning  <rvanderwoning@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 0:32pm
Subject: Re: Options

 
> I thought DB4 would be great, but I gave up halfway through
> reading the 94-page manual.  (Even though I'd already paid!)
> Talk about being overwhelmed with options!  I'm a busy person
> and I got a PDA to save time - not to spend a week reading a
> manual deciding how I wanted to set myself up.

I (like most DateBk4 enthusiasts) found that it works well "out of 
the box" so there really is no need to read the manual from cover to 
cover just to take advantage of many of its advanced features. Come 
to think of it, I probably never opened the manual more than half a 
dozen times and never read more than 2 or 3 pages on each occasion. I 
just started using it and learned several new features along the way.

The benefits of a complex program like DateBk4 are not in knowing it 
inside and out, but in the ways it works better than the competition 
and offers solutions for problems *as they arise*. As such, I only 
explore the application or the manual when I need something on top of 
what I already had.

Roy.
4591

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 0:53pm
Subject: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:

> The filter is "unchecked items," i.e. hide checked items.  The items 
> being imported are unchecked, so I would expect them to display. That's 
> what I meant when I said the the behaviour is unexpected.

	OKay, so its not rescanning the new ones.

> But I take it from the second part of your reply that scanning only 
> happens when the list is opened or when an item's status changes. 
> Understanding that makes the behaviour less unexpected, but still a bit 
> quirky IMHO.

	Do the pasted items suddenly re-appear when you edit items then?

	I'll put it on my todo list.

	(I hope to open a webpage for you guys to add requests and bug
finds to. Make it easier to track :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4592

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 1:44pm
Subject: RE: Coloured background?

 
I never saw the beta announcement. Did I not get that message, or does
the grin imply that that was a joke and a new beta isn't forthcoming??

Jen

----------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 8:11 PM
> 
> 	Check the beta announcement for 2.1.3 in about 5 minutes ;)
4593

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:19pm
Subject: RE: Coloured background?

 
On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, PocketGoddess wrote:

> I never saw the beta announcement. Did I not get that message, or does
> the grin imply that that was a joke and a new beta isn't forthcoming??

	Oopps; alpha announcement I meant. It'll go beta in a couple of
days (as 2.1.4).

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> ----------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 8:11 PM
> > 
> > 	Check the beta announcement for 2.1.3 in about 5 minutes ;)
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4594

From: jshadow_1  <jshadow_1@y...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:56pm
Subject: Single handed viewing/browsing

 
Don't know if anyone has posted something like this before, can't seem
to find anything similar by searching...

Would it be possible to enable some sort of button navigation for
shadow?  Example: when looking through a list, you can use the up/down
buttons to select each entry in the list.  If you get to an entry that
has children, hold the down button for 1-2 seconds (whatever feels
right).  Then the child would be able to be scrolled through.  To
contract a parent, goto that entry and hold the up arrow for 1-2
seconds.  Also, to goto another list, it would be handy to be able to
hit the checklist/memo button(if you had that setup) and then use the
up/down buttons to navigate the recently viewed list as well, and use
the assigned button(checklist/memo) as a sort of enter key.  With that
scheme, perhaps a couple entries could be added..."Cancel"(to cancel
changing the current list) and "Close this list"(so you can close it
and goto the main list screen).

These are just a couple ideas I had one day while traveling in the
car.  I had brought up a list on my visor deluxe and could not
navigate my list with one hand so I couldn't look through it.

Hope this is usefull :)
4595

From: Andy Gray  <agray@r...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:14pm
Subject: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:
>> When I copy a bunch of items into the clip then paste them into another 
>> list, the pasted items do not show up until I close the new list and 
>> re-open it. Am I missing something?
>
>	I'm betting you've got a filter on?

I've seen the same thing, with no filter enabled.  

I went to one list, selected Set Hold Many, and copied a bunch of items to
the clip.  I then opened another list and selected Paste Clip from the [C]
dropdown, but there was no visible change to the display.  I selected Paste
Clip again, and there was still no visible change to the display.  However,
if I then scrolled to the bottom of the list (so that the paste point was no
longer visible), and then scrolled back up to the paste point (i.e. forcing
a redraw), then I saw two copies of the pasted items.  'Twas a bit
disconcerting, but the data appeared to be intact.

-- Andy
4596

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Andy Gray wrote:

> I went to one list, selected Set Hold Many, and copied a bunch of items to
> the clip.  I then opened another list and selected Paste Clip from the [C]
> dropdown, but there was no visible change to the display.  I selected Paste
> Clip again, and there was still no visible change to the display.  However,
> if I then scrolled to the bottom of the list (so that the paste point was no
> longer visible), and then scrolled back up to the paste point (i.e. forcing
> a redraw), then I saw two copies of the pasted items.  'Twas a bit
> disconcerting, but the data appeared to be intact.

	So its just that the filter selections are not rescanned; when you
paste, they're there, just hidden by the filter, until a rescan
occurs. I'll fix it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4597

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Unexpected behaviour of multi-clip

 
(blush) today I cannot reproduce this.

--On 2002 March 11 07:53 -0500 Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Ken Gordon wrote:
>
> > The filter is "unchecked items," i.e. hide checked items.  The items
> > being imported are unchecked, so I would expect them to display. That's
> > what I meant when I said the the behaviour is unexpected.
>
> 	OKay, so its not rescanning the new ones.
>
> > But I take it from the second part of your reply that scanning only
> > happens when the list is opened or when an item's status changes.
> > Understanding that makes the behaviour less unexpected, but still a bit
> > quirky IMHO.
>
> 	Do the pasted items suddenly re-appear when you edit items then?
>
> 	I'll put it on my todo list.
>
> 	(I hope to open a webpage for you guys to add requests and bug
> finds to. Make it easier to track :)
>
> 		jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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>
>




Ken Gordon
4598

From: kenclatham  <clatham1@t...>
Date: Tue Mar 12, 2002 6:13am
Subject: Re: Single handed viewing/browsing

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "jshadow_1" <jshadow_1@y...> wrote:
> Don't know if anyone has posted something like this before, can't seem
> to find anything similar by searching...
> 
> Would it be possible to enable some sort of button navigation for
> shadow?  Example: when looking through a list, you can use the up/down
> buttons to select each entry in the list.  If you get to an entry that
> has children, hold the down button for 1-2 seconds (whatever feels
> right).  Then the child would be able to be scrolled through.  To
> contract a parent, goto that entry and hold the up arrow for 1-2
> seconds.  Also, to goto another list, it would be handy to be able to
> hit the checklist/memo button(if you had that setup) and then use the
> up/down buttons to navigate the recently viewed list as well, and use
> the assigned button(checklist/memo) as a sort of enter key.  With that
> scheme, perhaps a couple entries could be added..."Cancel"(to cancel
> changing the current list) and "Close this list"(so you can close it
> and goto the main list screen).
> 
> These are just a couple ideas I had one day while traveling in the
> car.  I had brought up a list on my visor deluxe and could not
> navigate my list with one hand so I couldn't look through it.
> 
> Hope this is usefull :)

I figure your requests should be disregarded, since you're
probably going to get into a car wreck and won't be using your
palm for a while... :)

Actually, I think that's an excellent idea.  I have often wanted to
just pick up my palm "thumb press" SP and browse a reference list to a
project while talking to someone about its milestones (and the like).

This sort of harkens back to the "read-only" lists where control is
reduced to browsing control and could reuse editing controls...

Ken
4599

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Single handed viewing/browsing

 
On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, kenclatham wrote:

> Actually, I think that's an excellent idea.  I have often wanted to

	It is a great idea, he says while using his jog dial :)

> just pick up my palm "thumb press" SP and browse a reference list to a
> project while talking to someone about its milestones (and the like).

	The jog is very useful, as the OS supports it for list gadgets..
with some shadow support, this lets us navigate up and down the file
selection screen to open a list, and shadow supports all sorts of
scrolling options with the jogger there, as well as closing the list or
pulling up details.

	So hardkey support wouldn't be as useful unless we implement some
list selection controls (which still wouldn't work for the category
picker) (or perhaps laptophack has somethign here).

	But getting up and down a list should be possible.

	So someone will need to draw up a list of desired hardkey
operations and fight over which keys they should be assigned to
(remembering lefties and righties) and then we can think about it :) (I'm
assuming a pref, too.. since I harte when programs grab hardkeys without
being told to do so)

> This sort of harkens back to the "read-only" lists where control is
> reduced to browsing control and could reuse editing controls...

	Read only could be hard; Details and Link Manager and such arent'
well geared to it at this time..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
4600

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Single handed viewing/browsing

 
Or you guys could just get a Clie and use the new jog-dial features Jeff
put in. Seems to work great on my T415. Just my .02.

Scott
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