From: awolfe_ii@y...
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 9:05pm
Subject: Lost my links again...

My QCP-6035 Palm Phone is great, but I do have the occasional hard 
reset - like this morning.  When I finished restoring everything, I 
got all my ShadowPlan files back, but all the links were broken.

Does anyone have a suggestion for reconstituting these?

Thanks

Andrew Wolfe

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:21pm
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:56:36 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
>I'm told that if you
>know how to design fields in access, using thinkDB is fairly  
>straightforward.  

Oh I know how to do that.

I guess I don't know how to phrase my question.

Brenda

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:22pm
Subject: RE: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter pr oposal

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:57:23 +0100, tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:
>
>Hmmm... do we really need bug Jeff with this?

Well as for me, I don't know what I am talking about since I am new to Shadow.

Brenda

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:29pm
Subject: Re: Beginner Questions

On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:49:19 -0000, kwurst@s... wrote:
>Some of my Brainforest outlines
>contain notes that are over 4k.

Bonsai can import Brainforest outlines. You can have 32k per note.

But... it cannot link to other files like Shadow can.

Brenda

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:40pm
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:37:08 -0500 (EST), Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>    Only if they provide an API and I have lots of free time to
>kill :P (ie: Not likely ;)

I don't know if it is an API.. but they have a developer's kit. (Which by the way makes you agree to things you might not want to sign)

they have something called a "plugin". I don't know if that would make it any easier to write or not.

> (how many people would want to dump data
>into a database and specifically, ThinkDB or HandDBase, etc.

Me :-)

The -only- reason I am not doing it right now is because nothing that I know of supports this.

> And how
>woudl you do that.. ask whjich field to dump it into, since
>databases are multifield? ugh!)

Yes you would ask them what field to dump things into.

There is an app called QDiary that lets you make your own free form database. It dumps it's data to the memopad. Shadow might be able to usefully import the info.

Brenda

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:00am
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Brenda <brenda@b...> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:56:36 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
> >I'm told that if you
> >know how to design fields in access, using thinkDB is fairly  
> >straightforward.  
> 
> Oh I know how to do that.
> 
> I guess I don't know how to phrase my question.
> 
> Brenda

Brenda,

Maybe I misunderstood you, try again.  Although I warn you, I am no 
computer techie and can't explain how they all work in techie terms.

Basically I am using cutting and pasting on my desktop to move info 
from my memopad into our access database.  We call the database 
'come-ups' and it operates as a tickler system.  It has a 'history' 
field and fields for info on contacts, bring forward dates etc.  
Because a number of people may be working on a file, many may be 
modifying the 'come-ups' hence my need to synch to see on my palm 
(when I am out of my office) what is happening so that I can plan next 
steps or answer questions (especially if someone else is responsible 
for the file but I am the client contact!).  I plan tasks and other 
notes in SP.  I export those notes to memopad so I can put it into our 
access database later.  My ideal would be able to export directly from 
SP into my thinkDB database which would then synch with our access 
database when I synch.  Our computer guru is too skittish that the 
access database will have too many problems if I modify it on my palm. 
 There also is no direct export to a database out of SP.  Although if 
you use thinkDB, it should only be a 2 step process to export to memo 
or doc and then paste that into thinkDB.

I guess the foregoing all depends on what you use a database program 
for.  I apologize for my babbling but it is getting late.....

From: lcsahagun@w...
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:19am
Subject: HiRes request

Jeff,
Are thinking in adding HiRes support to Shadow (as QuickSheet does)? 
That would let shadow show more lines per screen and avoid to much 
scrolling. I think many of us would definitely use it a lot.

Greetings

Luis Sahagun

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:34am
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

Michael,

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:00:37 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
>Basically I am using cutting and pasting on my desktop to move info  
>from my memopad into our access database.  

Ok do you mean you are doing something like this in the memopad...

Item 1
Item 2
Item 3

Then you load up the thinkDB deskop and cut and paste...

Item 1 into field 1
Item 2 into field 2

etc?

>tasks and other  notes in SP.  I export those notes to memopad so I
>can put it into our  access database later.

Is this done as in my example above?

>My ideal would be able
>to export directly from  SP into my thinkDB database 

Actually, this might even be easy to implement!

Now I don't know anything about SP so maybe this won't work but here is my attempt anyway :-)

Have a template file in SP that mirrors your thinkDB database.. like this (well if my example above is correct)

data for item one here
data for item two here
data for item three here

You can't label the items or else that would appear in your data.. you could put a line at the top for what the columns are

Now if SP can export to a CSV file you have it made. (there might be other data in it that you don't want though... you would have to look at the export file to see how to maybe change your thinkDB setup)

If SP can't export to a CSV.. then what you need to do is just do it yourself... putting a comma between each item in one record and going down a line (no comma at the end) for a new record.

Then when you have the CSV format file... just import it using the thinkDB desktop.

(wow maybe I will have to try the above myself!)

Also try out the program I mentioned called QDiary... it will let you dump a formatted free form database to the memopad. Then you could go into the Palm Desktop and cut and paste the memopad record as a text file. Then use thinkDB's desktop to import it.

I hope the above makes sense.

>which would
>then synch with our access  database when I synch.  Our computer
>guru is too skittish that the  access database will have too many
>problems if I modify it on my palm. 

well that could be a problem... thinkDB is buggy.

> There also is no direct export
>to a database out of SP.  Although if  you use thinkDB, it should
>only be a 2 step process to export to memo  or doc and then paste
>that into thinkDB.

I guess what I was looking for was maybe you had a special way to do the pasting.. but I am thinking you are doing what I mentioned at the start of the email.

>I guess the foregoing all depends on what you use a database program
> for.  I apologize for my babbling but it is getting late.....

well I am a techie type so I hope you can understand what I wrote.

Brenda

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 3:36am
Subject: Re: HiRes request

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 lcsahagun@w... wrote:

> Are thinking in adding HiRes support to Shadow (as QuickSheet does)? 
> That would let shadow show more lines per screen and avoid to much 
> scrolling. I think many of us would definitely use it a lot.

	I will likely be adding hires support, though I wont' enjoy doing
it twice (for Clie and for Handera). I'm waiting for the units to be
around in Canada (the Clie was just released a few days ago and is 800CAN
.. ouch!). Handera isn't anywhere to be seen. So far I'm not sure if many
people will use highres modes to show more content.. it just makes you use
smaller fonts :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 6:05am
Subject: RE: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter pr oposal

>>Hmmm... do we really need bug Jeff with this?

			>Well as for me, I don't know what I am talking 
			>about since I am new to Shadow.


Heh.. my only point was that since Shadow Desktop *already* uses XML, this format should be very easy to import to *any* XML-compliant application. I think it is way less efficient for Shadow to explicitly support n different variations of Palm databases. Sure, you would need to set up the field-mappings, but you do that once and should then be set. The only drawback is that it would involve a trip for the data to the PC and back and not be possible to do internally on the Palm device. What you gain is sharing a generic file format that can be used in a number of ways regardless of developer, application or OS. For instance, the recent Microsoft MDACs will let you spit out XML from Access or SQL Server, it should be as easy to get the info to travel in the opposite direction. The core support is present in Windows and lots of developer tools are available for implementing XML-support. If the current crop of databases today is lacking XML support, my guess is they will get ther!
e sooner rather than later. 


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 7:27am
Subject: RE: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter pr oposal

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:05:30 +0100, tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:
>The core support is present in Windows and lots of developer tools
>are available for implementing  XML-support. If the current crop of
>databases today is lacking XML support, my guess is they will get
>ther!
>e sooner rather than later.

I think this will be a long way off... at least for the uses we are concerned with here.

Brenda

From: tetvuid@f...
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 0:09pm
Subject: Re: Lost my links again... what about "clever" link restore?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., awolfe_ii@y... wrote:
> I do have the occasional hard 
> reset - like this morning.  When I finished restoring everything, I 
> got all my ShadowPlan files back, but all the links were broken.
> Does anyone have a suggestion for reconstituting these?

Well, it's the same problem with all app linked enabled : DateBK, 
SuperNames lose links too. Sometimes, some links survive... It's 
really a good question, may be somebody could help. What's the way of 
linking? Something as an Id? There's a nice linking hack, never lost 
a link even after reset, that's PalmWiki, of course ;) Just point to 
title of a memo. It's really awful to lose many links, lot of work to 
rebuilt, sometime can't even remember all linked items.
What about a restore function, as Windows does for delete links on 
Shortcut : "the next item is ****, do you want to join"?
Oh, oh, Jeff, you're really going to stop sleeping and eating ;D

Cheers
Christophe

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Lost my links again... what about "clever" link restore?

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 tetvuid@f... wrote:

> Well, it's the same problem with all app linked enabled : DateBK, 
> SuperNames lose links too. Sometimes, some links survive... It's 
> really a good question, may be somebody could help. What's the way of 
> linking? Something as an Id? There's a nice linking hack, never lost 

	Yep; each record in a palm database has a "reasonably unique" id
associated with it. So most linkages are doen by this.. Shadow stores the
ID of the record in question, so that it can be found again later. After a
full reset, the IDs will be all new for various reasons.

> What about a restore function, as Windows does for delete links on 
> Shortcut : "the next item is ****, do you want to join"?
> Oh, oh, Jeff, you're really going to stop sleeping and eating ;D

	Smart restoration would be ugly; theres a lot of issues with
having the app guess at what todo matches a given shadow item, and it
would take along time to process, given many of us have thousands of items
in Shadow lists. I'm not sure how accurate you could get, but it wouldn't
be 100% thats for sure.

	I have thought about a "re-establish all links" operation, that
just creates new links for broken links, but then you'd have doubles in
your other databases :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 1:40pm
Subject: Shadow 2.0.2 Alpha Released!

This has had light testing from the alpha group, but the changes
are pretty minimal and I've had a number of people give it a thumbs
up.. so here you go..

	Let me know if the radar filter isn't what you wanted it to
be. (There is a new Describe button that tells you vaguely what the
filters do).

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow202a.zip

		jeff

Shadow 2.0.2
------------
CHG: Filter screen is now full-screen; removed "Select" text and changed
  form title to "Select only ..." to suggest the same thing. This gives us the
  whole screen for holding thelist of filters. Help speed up things a bit.
  (Doubled the number of filters listed on the screen).
NEW: Added "Describe" button to filter screen
NEW: Added Due and Radar filters

Shadow 2.0.1
------------
NEW: Fitler "Next Step Only"; shows only an item that either:
	o has previous items that are all checked
	o item has no previous items and is unchecked
     This tries to show only one item per subtree.

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 3:09pm
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Brenda <brenda@b...> wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:00:37 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
> >Basically I am using cutting and pasting on my desktop to move info 
 
> >from my memopad into our access database.  
> 
> Ok do you mean you are doing something like this in the memopad...
> 
> Item 1
> Item 2
> Item 3
> 
> Then you load up the thinkDB deskop and cut and paste...
> 
> Item 1 into field 1
> Item 2 into field 2
> 
> etc?

Not even that complicated, I only need to cut and paste into 1 type of 
field but for a number of different records (? I am not a techie so i 
do not know if I have the jargon right.)  Basically our access 
database has a seperate memo field called a 'come up' for each file we 
have.  At any one time I work on 70-100 different files (I am a 
lawyer).  When I cut and paste I do it into access, not Think DB.  
think DB then synchs with the access database and brings it to my 
palm.
> 
> >tasks and other  notes in SP.  I export those notes to memopad so I
> >can put it into our  access database later.
> 
> Is this done as in my example above?
> 
> >My ideal would be able
> >to export directly from  SP into my thinkDB database 
> 
> Actually, this might even be easy to implement!
> 
> Now I don't know anything about SP so maybe this won't work but here 
is my attempt anyway :-)
> 
> Have a template file in SP that mirrors your thinkDB database.. like 
this (well if my example above is correct)

If I did that SP would be enormous!
> 
> data for item one here
> data for item two here
> data for item three here
> 
> You can't label the items or else that would appear in your data.. 
you could put a line at the top for what the columns are
> 
> Now if SP can export to a CSV file you have it made. (there might be 
other data in it that you don't want though... you would have to look 
at the export file to see how to maybe change your thinkDB setup)
> 
> If SP can't export to a CSV.. then what you need to do is just do it 
yourself... putting a comma between each item in one record and going 
down a line (no comma at the end) for a new record.
> 
> Then when you have the CSV format file... just import it using the 
thinkDB desktop.
> 
> (wow maybe I will have to try the above myself!)
> 
> Also try out the program I mentioned called QDiary... it will let 
you dump a formatted free form database to the memopad. Then you could 
go into the Palm Desktop and cut and paste the memopad record as a 
text file. Then use thinkDB's desktop to import it.
> 
> I hope the above makes sense.
> 
> >which would
> >then synch with our access  database when I synch.  Our computer
> >guru is too skittish that the  access database will have too many
> >problems if I modify it on my palm. 
> 
> well that could be a problem... thinkDB is buggy.
> 
> > There also is no direct export
> >to a database out of SP.  Although if  you use thinkDB, it should
> >only be a 2 step process to export to memo  or doc and then paste
> >that into thinkDB.
> 
> I guess what I was looking for was maybe you had a special way to do 
the pasting.. but I am thinking you are doing what I mentioned at the 
start of the email.
> 
> >I guess the foregoing all depends on what you use a database 
program
> > for.  I apologize for my babbling but it is getting late.....
> 
> well I am a techie type so I hope you can understand what I wrote.
> 
> Brenda

Thanks for your comments.  I may think about that some more in 
consultation with our computer guru - as he was the one to design the 
access database.

From: Dave  <daparker@b...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 4:03pm
Subject: Re: HiRes request

I second the request for HiRes support in Shadow. I bought my Clie N760 primarily for its HiRes capabilities and find there is a world of difference between low res and high res applications. It's not just fitting more information on the screen, the text looks much better and is easier to read. Text formatting can also be used to better advantage. I'm sure a year from now, most mainstream applications will support HiRes.

Dave


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jacques Turbé  <jacques@t...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 4:09pm
Subject: Against link loss: PalmWiki strategy ;-)

Was: [Re: Lost my links again... what about "clever" link restore?] 

Le 22 Nov 2001, à 12:09, tetvuid@f... a écrit: 

> >  When I finished restoring everything, I 
> > got all my ShadowPlan files back, but all the links were broken.
> 
> Well, it's the same problem with all app linked enabled : DateBK, 
> SuperNames lose links too. Sometimes, some links survive...... 
There's a nice linking hack, never lost 
> a link even after reset, that's PalmWiki, of course ;) Just point 
to 
> title of a memo

That's why, now,  I build over 80% of my linking uses on PalmWiki 
rather than on a linker system (Dbk4, Shadow (sorry!),or LinkerHack). 

Of course links targets are only within memo.pdb or datebook.pdb 
(well, it's already makes a nice deal), but siurces can be any app. 

All my items labels now, in dbk4, SD, ... are "palmWiki designed" : 
for instance "ToBuyForLunch MarkFriends" (you can have several of 
these memolinks in a single line). 

In my linked memos, I always paste the date (a left slide on 
FitalyStamp, which makes the "link" to Datebook), and may add one or 
two keywords for any appropriate context (MemoLeaf filtering and 
retrieval, or Palm Find). 

So, I don't fear hard resets disasters ;-) 

Furthermore, this linking system still works on desktop: 

On a "PalmWiki formatted" item of PalmDeskTop (not of ShadowDesktop, 
sorry) : 

Ctrl-C, Ctrl-F, Ctrl-V, mouseclic : here is my data (memo, 
or "linked" adress, or Todo...) 

Sorry for friends to whom I've been promoting DayNotez very hard :I'm 
now seriously considering dropping it, now that I'm dealing well with 
my "PalmWiki linking system" ;-) 

I don't publish this in Shadow-Tips, cause I'm afrait it's a tip for 
less Shadow usage ;-)) 


Jacques Turbé 
___________________________ 
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Jeff Curnow  <j.curnow@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 4:18pm
Subject: Sync Conduit Hangs

I know that this has been mentioned before, but the only solution that has
been suggested doesn't seem to be quite satisfactory. When I try to sync,
the conduit hangs with the message syncing shadow plan. It'll stay that way
forever unless I cancel it. The only way to get it to sync seems to be to
delete the files in the Shadowplan160 directory, which kind of defeats the
purpose of syncing, doesn't it?

Anyone have any ideas? This is the coolest product, and the best customer
support I've ever seen. I'm doing huge law school final exam outlines on
this with my palm505 and keyboard - works like a charm. Am looking forward
to more keyboard support.

Jeff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Curnow  <j.curnow@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 4:31pm
Subject: RE: Sync Conduit Hangs

Ok - This time when I synced, Half of my outline was missing once it got to
the desktop and, while the file is still on the handheld, the contents are
empty. Any Help?
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Curnow [mailto:j.curnow@v...]
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 11:19 AM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Sync Conduit Hangs


  I know that this has been mentioned before, but the only solution that has
  been suggested doesn't seem to be quite satisfactory. When I try to sync,
  the conduit hangs with the message syncing shadow plan. It'll stay that
way
  forever unless I cancel it. The only way to get it to sync seems to be to
  delete the files in the Shadowplan160 directory, which kind of defeats the
  purpose of syncing, doesn't it?

  Anyone have any ideas? This is the coolest product, and the best customer
  support I've ever seen. I'm doing huge law school final exam outlines on
  this with my palm505 and keyboard - works like a charm. Am looking forward
  to more keyboard support.

  Jeff


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:13pm
Subject: Re: Sync Conduit Hangs

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Jeff Curnow wrote:

> I know that this has been mentioned before, but the only solution that has
> been suggested doesn't seem to be quite satisfactory. When I try to sync,
> the conduit hangs with the message syncing shadow plan. It'll stay that way
> forever unless I cancel it. The only way to get it to sync seems to be to
> delete the files in the Shadowplan160 directory, which kind of defeats the
> purpose of syncing, doesn't it?

	Actually, a lot of people this happened to just go on about using
Shadow and then sync again the next day, without a problem. But if you
want to sync fully right away, just delete the one XML file that is having
the problem and then sync again. (ie: The lastsync.txt, go to the bottom,
and the filename will be there pretty much).

	It is annoying, but I'll hopefully have it fixed soon (I've had
zero time for any development in the last 2 weeks since release, but
fixing this is pretty tops in my list)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:15pm
Subject: RE: Sync Conduit Hangs

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Jeff Curnow wrote:

> Ok - This time when I synced, Half of my outline was missing once it got to
> the desktop and, while the file is still on the handheld, the contents are
> empty. Any Help?

	What did you do following the cancelled sync? (did you kill the
hotsync manmager processes or what?)

	Sounds like you must've killed it or did something at the worst
possible time; you should have one side or the other in fully owrkable
state (ie: The desktop file isn't updated until the handheld fully
synchronizes, so if you kill things mid-sync, the desktop file will be
preserved).

	Check the DesktopRef if you need to go to one of the backup files
:(

	Sorry, I'll get this bug fixed soon as I can :(

		jeff


>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Jeff Curnow [mailto:j.curnow@v...]
>   Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 11:19 AM
>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Sync Conduit Hangs
> 
> 
>   I know that this has been mentioned before, but the only solution that has
>   been suggested doesn't seem to be quite satisfactory. When I try to sync,
>   the conduit hangs with the message syncing shadow plan. It'll stay that
> way
>   forever unless I cancel it. The only way to get it to sync seems to be to
>   delete the files in the Shadowplan160 directory, which kind of defeats the
>   purpose of syncing, doesn't it?
> 
>   Anyone have any ideas? This is the coolest product, and the best customer
>   support I've ever seen. I'm doing huge law school final exam outlines on
>   this with my palm505 and keyboard - works like a charm. Am looking forward
>   to more keyboard support.
> 
>   Jeff
> 
> 
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> 
> 
> 
>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> 
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> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Curnow  <j.curnow@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 5:30pm
Subject: RE: Sync Conduit Hangs

Yes - I ended up killing the hot sync process after about 45 minutes of it
just hanging there (after trying to cancel it the regular ways).

I did find the backup in the Hot sync manager directory and it looks like
I'm back in business. Thanks!
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 12:15 PM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Sync Conduit Hangs


  On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Jeff Curnow wrote:

  > Ok - This time when I synced, Half of my outline was missing once it got
to
  > the desktop and, while the file is still on the handheld, the contents
are
  > empty. Any Help?

        What did you do following the cancelled sync? (did you kill the
  hotsync manmager processes or what?)

        Sounds like you must've killed it or did something at the worst
  possible time; you should have one side or the other in fully owrkable
  state (ie: The desktop file isn't updated until the handheld fully
  synchronizes, so if you kill things mid-sync, the desktop file will be
  preserved).

        Check the DesktopRef if you need to go to one of the backup files
  :(

        Sorry, I'll get this bug fixed soon as I can :(

              jeff


  >   -----Original Message-----
  >   From: Jeff Curnow [mailto:j.curnow@v...]
  >   Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 11:19 AM
  >   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  >   Subject: [shadow-discuss] Sync Conduit Hangs
  >
  >
  >   I know that this has been mentioned before, but the only solution that
has
  >   been suggested doesn't seem to be quite satisfactory. When I try to
sync,
  >   the conduit hangs with the message syncing shadow plan. It'll stay
that
  > way
  >   forever unless I cancel it. The only way to get it to sync seems to be
to
  >   delete the files in the Shadowplan160 directory, which kind of defeats
the
  >   purpose of syncing, doesn't it?
  >
  >   Anyone have any ideas? This is the coolest product, and the best
customer
  >   support I've ever seen. I'm doing huge law school final exam outlines
on
  >   this with my palm505 and keyboard - works like a charm. Am looking
forward
  >   to more keyboard support.
  >
  >   Jeff
  >
  >
  >   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
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  >

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 9:40pm
Subject: Shadow in print!

Shadow has been in print in Canada, the US, and in Germany and now
will be in print in the UK! A new upcoming handheld oriented magazine will
have its first issue featuring Shadow Plan (with prominent mention on the
cover.)  I think it'll go on sale mid December, so I'll let everyone know
as details come in!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:29am
Subject: Re: Sync Conduit Hangs

Jeff:
When you use it for important stuff that you can't "afford" to lose, don't forget to backup your data files regularly.  That one time and you are soooooooooo bummed!  Good luck on the exam!
Kevin Giberson

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Curnow 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 8:18 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Sync Conduit Hangs


  I know that this has been mentioned before, but the only solution that has
  been suggested doesn't seem to be quite satisfactory. When I try to sync,
  the conduit hangs with the message syncing shadow plan. It'll stay that way
  forever unless I cancel it. The only way to get it to sync seems to be to
  delete the files in the Shadowplan160 directory, which kind of defeats the
  purpose of syncing, doesn't it?

  Anyone have any ideas? This is the coolest product, and the best customer
  support I've ever seen. I'm doing huge law school final exam outlines on
  this with my palm505 and keyboard - works like a charm. Am looking forward
  to more keyboard support.

  Jeff


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 8:37am
Subject: FYI: weird links to AN 5 beta

Hi!

Just thought I would mention that I found a little weirdness in the links after installing the ActionNames 5.0 beta. I *think* this is a beta problem, but it could also be a change in the way AN works internally that might require adjusting from within Shadow.

Anyway - what happens when I follow the link to a contact is that AN 5 will open a seemingly random event instead of the selected contact.

So far it still links correctly to my datebook and todos. 


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2001 10:36pm
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:09:36 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
>Not even that complicated, I only need to cut and paste into 1 type
>of  field but for a number of different records (? I am not a techie
>so i  do not know if I have the jargon right.) 

I wasn't talking about pasting into different field types.

> Basically our access
> database has a seperate memo field called a 'come up' for each file
>we  have.  At any one time I work on 70-100 different files (I am a  
>lawyer).  When I cut and paste I do it into access, not Think DB.  
>think DB then synchs with the access database and brings it to my  
>palm.

well I am hopelessly confused now..

I am not sure if I am reading all your new comments.. it was hard to follow what was new and what was old. I don't know if it is my mail program doing it or not since i am trying out a new one.

>Thanks for your comments.  I may think about that some more in  
>consultation with our computer guru - as he was the one to design
>the  access database.

well I hope it helps

Brenda

From: tetvuid@f...
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 10:20am
Subject: Re: Against link loss: PalmWiki strategy ;-)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Jacques Turbé" <jacques@t...> wrote:
> (Jacques explains that, when he uses Palmwiki)
> So, I don't fear hard resets disasters ;-) 

I've got a CESD's response on Pimlicodatebk forum (I asked too for 
restore links after hard reset). He told to use BackupBuddy, 
backingup up databases in native format (backup database mapped with 
conduit), so you've the right uniqueID to save links. Good tip :)

> Sorry for friends to whom I've been promoting DayNotez very 
hard :I'm 
> now seriously considering dropping it, now that I'm dealing well 
with 
> my "PalmWiki linking system" ;-) 

Eeeeek! (french user of egroup palm-fr will understand ;)) Daynotez 
is more than a memo app...

From: Jacques Turbé  <jacques@t...>
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 10:55am
Subject: Re: Re: Against link loss: PalmWiki strategy ;-)

tetvuid@f... wrote:
---
>--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Jacques Turbé" <jacques@t...> wrote:
>> (Jacques explains that, when he uses Palmwiki)
>> So, I don't fear hard resets disasters ;-) 
>
>I've got a CESD's response on Pimlicodatebk forum  He told to use BackupBuddy, 
>backingup up databases in native format 

Well,dear Christophe, I read it already a couple of hours ago ;-))

>> Sorry for friends to whom I've been promoting DayNotez very 
>hard :I'm 
>> now seriously considering dropping it, now that I'm dealing well 
>with 
>> my "PalmWiki linking system" ;-) 
>
>Eeeeek! (french user of egroup palm-fr will understand ;)) Daynotez 
>is more than a memo app...
>

Right : but what if I can manage to get *same* features I tasted with DN in a sytem built around datebk.pdb and memo.pdb only with some light "plugins" ?

Jacques Turbé 
-----------------------
http://avm.free.fr

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 1:21pm
Subject: Re: Sync Conduit Hangs

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Kevin Giberson wrote:

> When you use it for important stuff that you can't "afford" to lose,
> don't forget to backup your data files regularly.  That one time and
> you are soooooooooo bummed!  Good luck on the exam!

	The shadow conduit keeps a tonne of backups automatically; check
the DesktopRef. (The palm has a file copy, the desktop has a file copy,
the hotsync manager keeps a raw backup, and the conduit keeps 3 backups)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 1:40pm
Subject: Re: FYI: weird links to AN 5 beta

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:

> Just thought I would mention that I found a little weirdness in the
> links after installing the ActionNames 5.0 beta. I *think* this is a
> beta problem, but it could also be a change in the way AN works
> internally that might require adjusting from within Shadow.

	Action Names 5? I'm using 4.54. Is the alpha stable and
useful? (cost upgrade?)

> Anyway - what happens when I follow the link to a contact is that AN 5
> will open a seemingly random event instead of the selected contact.

	The AN guys don't publish how to ask AN to go to a contact. As
such, Shadow doesn't know how.. it just tries a standard goto, and that
usually doesn't work. (ie: The AN guys are the ones not following the
standard, so they need to publish their goto mechanism)

> So far it still links correctly to my datebook and todos. 

	A few people figured out their goto mechanism for todo/datebook
and published it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 2:15pm
Subject: RE: FYI: weird links to AN 5 beta

>Action Names 5? I'm using 4.54. Is the alpha stable and
		>useful? (cost upgrade?)

Well, it might be useful once the new features work as intended :-) Stable is a relative term - weird stuff happens, but it has still to crash on me. Reading the forums suggests this is not the case for everybody, though. One cool feature is the "Contact history" - a clickable list linked to your previous meetings, calls and todos for a specific contact. Multi-line display of meetings is nice too, but there are a couple of not-so-useful features as well. We (the users) believe there might be an upgrade cost, but it has not been publicly announced yet. The Iambic staff is playing the cards very close to the chest as usual.


		>The AN guys don't publish how to ask AN to go to a contact. As
		>such, Shadow doesn't know how.. it just tries a standard goto, and that
		>usually doesn't work. (ie: The AN guys are the ones not following the
		>standard, so they need to publish their goto mechanism)

OK, that's what I thought. I did post a message about this on their board for beta-discussion about the product. It did work nicely with 4.61, though. That should be a free update from 4.54 if you're interested. 

peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 3:41pm
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

Now I am hopelessly confused with your question.
Here is what I do (which I hope will explain this):

Note:  I have a seperate SP list for each file I work on - named for 
its file number.
1. Export SP list for file #12345 to memo on my palm (I make it a note 
view before doing so as it is cleaner).  Repeat for a number of 
different file lists.
2. Synch palm to desktop.
3. Cut memo (or parts of it- the ability to export single items from 
SP rather than whole lists would be nice - but that is another 
discussion)from palm desktop.
4. Paste memo into my access database.  The access database has a 
bunch of info with a number of fields for each file we have.  But for 
File # 12345 I only need to paste into 1 field (which is a memo field) 
the info from SP.  This field contains a continuous history of events 
of that file. (And each time I complete a task that I planned on SP it 
becomes an event.)
5. repeat steps 4 and 5 for as many memos as I have to cut and paste.
6.Run thinkDB desktop to synch with the access database.  (It also 
synchs with another access database which works like a calendar but I 
won't explain that. This access database was first developed before MS 
Outlook was available! but works better because everyone in our office 
has access to it and can change it which we need.)
6. Synch my palm again.  This brings the thinkDB database to my palm.


Voila!  I can now read info in thinkDB that has been inputted by me, 
and others at my office.   I can then plan in SP what I have to do 
next in each file -> and link that with ToDo+ as necessary.  I can 
also make notes on research, meetings, court hearings etc. (which I 
need to do away from my office) either in SP (or bring them in to SP 
through links, imports etc.) and then where necessary put it back into 
the office Access database that our firm runs on using the above 
process.

As I said, the ideal would be to eliminate some of the above steps.  
That I think will have to wait...

Now what exactly is your situation - what info do you want to 
integrate between SP and thinkDB.  How many fields do you need to 
import into (I only need to use 1).  What do you need to use thinkDB 
for that you can't use SP for.    If you need to use thinkDB to synch 
with office databases like I do, but use SP then I do not know how 
else to do it easily.  If you use thinkDB as stand alone databases 
then that is different, and why you need to use SP and why you need to 
integrate with thinkDb will also be different.  The answers to these 
questions should give you what you need.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Brenda <brenda@b...> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:09:36 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
> >Not even that complicated, I only need to cut and paste into 1 type
> >of  field but for a number of different records (? I am not a 
techie
> >so i  do not know if I have the jargon right.) 
> 
> I wasn't talking about pasting into different field types.
> 
> > Basically our access
> > database has a seperate memo field called a 'come up' for each 
file
> >we  have.  At any one time I work on 70-100 different files (I am a 
 
> >lawyer).  When I cut and paste I do it into access, not Think DB.  
> >think DB then synchs with the access database and brings it to my  
> >palm.
> 
> well I am hopelessly confused now..
> 
> I am not sure if I am reading all your new comments.. it was hard to 
follow what was new and what was old. I don't know if it is my mail 
program doing it or not since i am trying out a new one.
> 
> >Thanks for your comments.  I may think about that some more in  
> >consultation with our computer guru - as he was the one to design
> >the  access database.
> 
> well I hope it helps
> 
> Brenda

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:23pm
Subject: Re: Sync Conduit Hangs

Of course Jeff, I meant to keep the safe 7th backup!  :)
Thanks for the info.
Kevin


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 5:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Sync Conduit Hangs


  On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Kevin Giberson wrote:

  > When you use it for important stuff that you can't "afford" to lose,
  > don't forget to backup your data files regularly.  That one time and
  > you are soooooooooo bummed!  Good luck on the exam!

        The shadow conduit keeps a tonne of backups automatically; check
  the DesktopRef. (The palm has a file copy, the desktop has a file copy,
  the hotsync manager keeps a raw backup, and the conduit keeps 3 backups)

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2001 1:44am
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:41:32 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
>Note:  I have a seperate SP list for each file I work on - named for
> its file number.
>1. Export SP list for file #12345 to memo on my palm (I make it a
>note  view before doing so as it is cleaner).  Repeat for a number
>of  different file lists.
>2. Synch palm to desktop.
>3. Cut memo (or parts of it- the ability to export single items from
> SP rather than whole lists would be nice - but that is another  
>discussion)from palm desktop.
>4. Paste memo into my access database.  The access database has a  
>bunch of info with a number of fields for each file we have.  But
>for  File # 12345 I only need to paste into 1 field (which is a memo
>field)  the info from SP.  This field contains a continuous history
>of events  of that file. (And each time I complete a task that I
>planned on SP it  becomes an event.)

Oh I thought I asked if it was a memo and you responded no... I must have misunderstood your response or something.

Ok so you are doing this: (well I gotta translate it into technical terms for me :->

a. Write case history info as a Shadow outline
b. Export outline to a memo
c. HotSync
d. Load Palm Desktop
e. Load Access
f. Go to memo in Pam Desktop with the exported outline
g. Cut memo
h. Paste memo into Access
(continued)

>5. repeat steps 4 and 5 for as many memos as I have to cut and
>paste.
>6.Run thinkDB desktop to synch with the access database.  (It also  
>synchs with another access database which works like a calendar but
>I  won't explain that. This access database was first developed
>before MS  Outlook was available! but works better because everyone
>in our office  has access to it and can change it which we need.)

I had the order all confused for how you were doing stuff... I was thinking Shadow/thinkDB/Access instead of Shadow/Access/thinkDB

Doesn't the computer guru scream about # 6?

i. run thinkDB desktop
j. some conversion spec is going on here that is not discussed (I am mentioning it here it for completeness)
k. tell thinkDB desktop to save and install the file (mentioned for completeness)

>6. Synch my palm again.  This brings the thinkDB database to my
>palm.

k. Sync to update the thinkDB database  


>Voila!  I can now read info in thinkDB that has been inputted by me,
> and others at my office.  

I think this was the part that was confusing me... because it makes it sound like people are inputting stuff into thinkDB directly. So what they are doing is inputting data into Access in the "normal" way... ie: just typing directly into Access. You are inputting data by putting it into Shadow and then using the Palm Desktop to grab it and THEN pasting it into Access.

Ok so I think I get it now...

 I can then plan in SP what I have to do  
>next in each file -> and link that with ToDo+ as necessary.

See now I know a lot of people would say.. well why not just put it all in the memopad to start with?! But I know for me, I would rather have it in an outliner because then I can move stuff around more easily.

>  I can  
>also make notes on research, meetings, court hearings etc. (which I  
>need to do away from my office) either in SP (or bring them in to SP
> through links, imports etc.) and then where necessary put it back
>into  the office Access database that our firm runs on using the
>above  process.

hmm this stuff could go into Shadow-tips... it is a very interesting way to handle the situation.

>As I said, the ideal would be to eliminate some of the above steps.
> That I think will have to wait...

It would seem that there is no way to automate the process because a human has to pick what Access record to paste the data into. You couldn't just do an import on Access and have it know what record to put your memopad record on. Well I don't know... I am not an expert in Access.. and besides this probably makes no sense to you 

Here is what I am assuming.. say there are 10 clients in the db.. and you want to add some info for Client #3 and Client #7. So you have 2 shadow outlines one for each client. You export them both to the memopad etc. There would seem to be no way for software to know that you wanted memo #1 to get pasted to Client 3 and memo # 2 to get pasted to Client 7.

It could be done by having thinkDB/Access bi-directional syncing going on... but you said the computer guru doesn't want that. But even if you -could- do that, you wouldn't be able to use Shadow and export to a memo because thinkDB has no way of picking the memo up automatically. (let alone putting the memo on the right record). Even if Shadow could somehow talk to thinkDB, that STILL would not help you... because you are not allowed to sync directly to Access.

The only thing I can think of right now that might help... is to use the Shadow Desktop. (I have not used it.) If you could somehow cut a Shadow outline and paste it into Access you could at least skip the export to memo step.

>Now what exactly is your situation - what info do you want to  
>integrate between SP and thinkDB.

Actually, I was just curious as to what your process was because it sounded like something I hadn't heard of before :->

I have hardly used Shadow at all. I have not had time to try it out very much yet. Bonsai just scrambled my outlines again today... I had thought that bug was fixed. Makes me want to try Shadow more.

>  How many fields do you need to  
>import into (I only need to use 1). 

It would be more than one. 

I wouldn't have the problems that you have though because I am just a single user so I can do whatever I want.

> What do you need to use thinkDB
> for that you can't use SP for.

My main thing that I would like to do that can't be done.. well at least on Bonsai.. is make a log of what I work on and the time it takes. Bonsai cannot time anything.

So right now I have a Bonsai outline set up, and I write in what I do and the start and stop times.

Then I have a thinkDB database that times it.

But I don't write down all that I do in thinkDB.

I could do like you are doing and export the Bonsai outline and paste it into thinkDB. That would be a good idea.

The problem is that if you export Bonsai stuff it loses the dates. Maybe I could make my own export so that would not happen. (You can define a template in Bonsai.)

>   If you need to use thinkDB to
>synch  with office databases like I do, but use SP then I do not
>know how  else to do it easily. 

Nope not in a work setting.

When I was in a work setting, the supervisor did not approve of my Palm use.

 If you use thinkDB as stand alone
>databases  then that is different, and why you need to use SP and
>why you need to  integrate with thinkDb will also be different.  The
>answers to these  questions should give you what you need.

Some of my databases have Access counterparts and some don't.

I will definitely have to think about putting my completed items in my thinkDB database. Right now they are just clogging up the main Bonsai list. I would have exported them to DayNotez but it does not retain all the info contained in the outline when you export to DayNotez.

thanks for taking all the time to explain it to me! I think I finally understand it now.. :-)

Brenda

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 2:53am
Subject: Re: Re: Lite

My four cents worth...Maybe no Lite wins out in the short run, assuming the focus is on having one with lots of "power" options AND a desktop.  But how long until all the others begin to make a desktop?  Then are you just one of the many "power" choices that divides the market share evenly?  Or do you offer what none seem to stick with, a lite version or the option to remain like a lite version (within the program one can add lots of the additional options, but can also opt not to use such).  Seems it would be easy to allow for such, but maybe the programming is too complicated to allow that option.  Just a thought to keep the broadest base of support for years to come!
Thanks for listening.
Kevin Giberson

Kevin S. Giberson, Civil Litigation Attorney
Bachan, Skillicorn & Marinovich
18 Alexander Street
Watsonville, CA  95076
(Santa Cruz and Monterey counties)
(831) 722-3861
Fax:  (831) 722-0347
Cellular with voice mailbox:  (831) 419-7551
kevin@g...

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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Bleimeyer 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 12:03 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Lite


  I agree with Todd. Lite is never satisfying.

  You know, with all the power that Shadow has, you
  would probably the only one on the market with a tool
  like this that had both a Windows and Mac desktop.
  That fact alone would overshadow (pardon me .... ;>)
  any benefit from having a lite version.

  Robert Bleimeyer

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From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 7:06am
Subject: Re: FYI: weird links to AN 5 beta

> 	Action Names 5? I'm using 4.54. Is the alpha stable and
> useful? (cost upgrade?)

Has some nice added features-- large fonts, contact history, etc.  
Rather stable, with a few bugs reported, such as scroll bars not 
working right in 1 day view.  It's in public beta now. It will cost to 
upgrade, considering that the "most useful" beta testers have been 
promised free upgrades.

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 9:28am
Subject: AN 5 beta

FYI re: AN5...The font changes seem worse in AN5.  Now the font is thinner with those OS that allow for High Resolution, making it more of a strain to read.  Then the larger font does not allow individual entries to be larger, but the entire list must be and thus requires scrolling down more often.  No option for the bold font.  Bummer on their "major" upgrade.  Some ok stuff added, but to me not a huge upgrade and the font situation now seems more problematic.
We'll see what happens!
Kevin Giberson

Kevin S. Giberson, Civil Litigation Attorney
Bachan, Skillicorn & Marinovich
18 Alexander Street
Watsonville, CA  95076
(Santa Cruz and Monterey counties)
(831) 722-3861
Fax:  (831) 722-0347
Cellular with voice mailbox:  (831) 419-7551
kevin@g...

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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: PocketGoddess 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 11:06 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] FYI: weird links to AN 5 beta


  >       Action Names 5? I'm using 4.54. Is the alpha stable and
  > useful? (cost upgrade?)

  Has some nice added features-- large fonts, contact history, etc.  
  Rather stable, with a few bugs reported, such as scroll bars not 
  working right in 1 day view.  It's in public beta now. It will cost to 
  upgrade, considering that the "most useful" beta testers have been 
  promised free upgrades.

  -- 
  jen@p...
  http://www.pocketgoddess.com
  98% Palm OS, 100% Fun

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From: Rob Olian  <egroup@h...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 5:22pm
Subject: Keyboard support when using graphical buttons

How does one (or can one) keyboard in the "done" or "details" 
commands when the graphical buttons are showing?? In other words, I 
like the graphical buttons, but when I am using the PPK keyboard, 
there don't seem to be any keystroke commands that equate to "done" 
or "details" when viewing a list. When using the text buttons, those 
two buttons are there, of course, and the PPK "done" and "fn-details" 
keys work fine. They don't work when the graphical buttons are 
displayed however. I've looked in the manual twice and am either 
missing the obvious or it isn't there.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard support when using graphical buttons

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Rob Olian wrote:

> two buttons are there, of course, and the PPK "done" and "fn-details" 
> keys work fine. They don't work when the graphical buttons are 
> displayed however. I've looked in the manual twice and am either 
> missing the obvious or it isn't there.

	I just picked up a keyboard, so I will be adding some more
keyboard options. Deails, Done, Check/Uncheck toggle, etc will be going in
soon to help in various cases. Stowaway keyboard driver (recent one) has a
mouse pointer that lets you hit some of the buttons pretty easily when you
need to.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 5:32pm
Subject: Item in multiple lists? ("item to item link")

Would people actually use this? We've nailed down the semantics
awhile back, but upon thinking about it I'm wondering how many people
would have a good use for it.

	Consider; an item in a list could be "sent to" another list (new
option I will add, to save on cut and pasting). Like when importing, I
could add a "link to original" checkbox for the send-to dialog, so when
you send the item to the other list, it remembers where it originally came
from.

	Then a change to it in the other list will change both. OKay, this
sounds neat, but I can see only limited uses for it (but maybe my brain
isn't creative today)

	1) Multi-file filter would depend on this; specify a filter, and
Shadow could scan through all files making a new file  linking to the
originals. Then you could browse the resulting file, delete it, or jump to
the originals. This is useful.

	2) Given resource assignments, you could create a project file,
and then "send to" items to other lists to hold assignments for
individuals or other resource dependancies. OKay, this sounds good, maybe.

	3) Any other uses?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: d_oren@n...
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 6:06pm
Subject: Re: Item in multiple lists? ("item to item link")

Hi,

Wow, that's amazing! Today I thought to myself: wouldn't it be cool to have item to item 
linking ability... 

That could be just GREAT!
I have several lists with some things in common between them.
For example: I have one list the contains a project's "things to do".
I have another list with things I'm waiting for. This list contains item from several 
projects.
There are items that belong to the project and should be in the project list. However, if 
these items are in a "Waiting for" state, it should also be in the second list.

What a telepathy... :-)

Oren Danewitz.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Would people actually use this? We've nailed down the semantics
> awhile back, but upon thinking about it I'm wondering how many people
> would have a good use for it.
> 
> 	Consider; an item in a list could be "sent to" another list (new
> option I will add, to save on cut and pasting). Like when importing, I
> could add a "link to original" checkbox for the send-to dialog, so when
> you send the item to the other list, it remembers where it originally came
> from.
> 
> 	Then a change to it in the other list will change both. OKay, this
> sounds neat, but I can see only limited uses for it (but maybe my brain
> isn't creative today)
> 
> 	1) Multi-file filter would depend on this; specify a filter, and
> Shadow could scan through all files making a new file  linking to the
> originals. Then you could browse the resulting file, delete it, or jump to
> the originals. This is useful.
> 
> 	2) Given resource assignments, you could create a project file,
> and then "send to" items to other lists to hold assignments for
> individuals or other resource dependancies. OKay, this sounds good, maybe.
> 
> 	3) Any other uses?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Item in multiple lists? ("item to item link")

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 d_oren@n... wrote:

> Wow, that's amazing! Today I thought to myself: wouldn't it be cool to
> have item to item linking ability...

	Nothing is built yet.. just trying to see if its worth it ;)

> That could be just GREAT!
> I have several lists with some things in common between them.
> For example: I have one list the contains a project's "things to do".
> I have another list with things I'm waiting for. This list contains item from several 
> projects.
> There are items that belong to the project and should be in the project list. However, if 
> these items are in a "Waiting for" state, it should also be in the second list.
> 
> What a telepathy... :-)
> 
> Oren Danewitz.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	Would people actually use this? We've nailed down the semantics
> > awhile back, but upon thinking about it I'm wondering how many people
> > would have a good use for it.
> > 
> > 	Consider; an item in a list could be "sent to" another list (new
> > option I will add, to save on cut and pasting). Like when importing, I
> > could add a "link to original" checkbox for the send-to dialog, so when
> > you send the item to the other list, it remembers where it originally came
> > from.
> > 
> > 	Then a change to it in the other list will change both. OKay, this
> > sounds neat, but I can see only limited uses for it (but maybe my brain
> > isn't creative today)
> > 
> > 	1) Multi-file filter would depend on this; specify a filter, and
> > Shadow could scan through all files making a new file  linking to the
> > originals. Then you could browse the resulting file, delete it, or jump to
> > the originals. This is useful.
> > 
> > 	2) Given resource assignments, you could create a project file,
> > and then "send to" items to other lists to hold assignments for
> > individuals or other resource dependancies. OKay, this sounds good, maybe.
> > 
> > 	3) Any other uses?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Tom  <tom.peck@t...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:04pm
Subject: Request for hi-res support

I'll add my vote for supporting the Clie's hi-res screen. Wordsmith
supports the hi-res display and the difference between the Clie and my
old Visor Prism is incredible. I can read several paragraps instead of
just a couple of sentences. Large outlines would look great on the Clie.

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:07pm
Subject: RE: Item in multiple lists? ("item to item link" )

>	Consider; an item in a list could be "sent to" another list (new
	>option I will add, to save on cut and pasting). Like when importing, I
	>could add a "link to original" checkbox for the send-to dialog, so when
	>you send the item to the other list, it remembers where it originally came
	>from.


	Yep, this would suit my style of working with Shadow just fine. Now, I have a quite a few File-links between my "Weekly plan" and various projects I'm currently working on. It would be even better to be able to send specific items from each project due the following week to my weekly plan, for instance. I also keep lists of "Maybe someday" ideas. When the time is right for implementation, I can link these items right into my weekly plan as well.

	I re-use my weekly plan file, so for this to be really useful, a few new purge options should also be included. I like to remove all items marked complete from my weekly plan after exporting it to DayNotez for journaling. However, it wouldn't be good if completed, linked Shadow-items started to disappear from say a project plan. Here they are needed for the history and progress, but the weekly plan is designed to focus on only what's important right now. A toggle or preference to delete linked Shadow-items or not might be a solution.


	peace,
	Tormod

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:33pm
Subject: You guys are going to love the enhanced New From I just built..

It's going to alpha test today, but as a teaser..

NEW: Improved "New From" system; may be slightly slower to use or when
  changing week, but ought to operate faster in general and be more
accurate.
  + When using todo, will let you hide completed or undated items.
  + You can also now "OK +" which is the same as OK but stays in New From
    so making multiple imports is way easier.
  + Show currently selected week in title of dialog
  Let me know if this fixes the New From issues and if you like all this
  new functionality!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Request for hi-res support

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001, Tom wrote:

> I'll add my vote for supporting the Clie's hi-res screen. Wordsmith
> supports the hi-res display and the difference between the Clie and my
> old Visor Prism is incredible. I can read several paragraps instead of
> just a couple of sentences. Large outlines would look great on the Clie.

	Its higher resolution, and not more space. So you've got a
*really* small font now?

	I'll get to hires, vanishing grafitti areas, etc, after the
international support is fixed in the desktop...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2001 8:37pm
Subject: RE: Item in multiple lists? ("item to item link" )

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:

> DayNotez for journaling. However, it wouldn't be good if completed,
> linked Shadow-items started to disappear from say a project plan. Here
> they are needed for the history and progress, but the weekly plan is
> designed to focus on only what's important right now. A toggle or
> preference to delete linked Shadow-items or not might be a solution.

	You mean a separate option from the normal "Deleted linked objects
with item" pref?

	I'm currently expecting to make it so if you delete onside or the
other, then you just get the usual broken-link alert that lets you
sever-all, or let you manually several item by item. So you'd send an item
to your weekly, and then eventually delete it from the weekly.

	A original item will never know if it has been cloned or how many
times, and it will *not* be able to goto its relatives (ie: It has no idea
where or how many exist; it could have 1000 clones for all we know, so it
would be impracticle to track them all. Your unit would bog down after a
few clones..)

	A clone will always know its original item, however, so a clone
can give you a goto option, or a broken link warning, etc.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Dash  <just1dash@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 0:33am
Subject: Re: Item in multiple lists? ("item to item link")

This feature is really essential.

One obvious use of this would be enhanced ability to use contextual 
lists as recommended in the Getting Things Done (GtD) methodology.  
For instance, you may have lists for ToDos in the office, at the 
computer, or at the phone.  Obviously, there is considerable overlap 
here, so the ability to create multi-list items would greatly 
facilitate such an approach.

There are plenty of folks who have either experimented with, or are 
refugees from, Life Balance and I would guess that contextual ToDo 
lists are one of the main attractions to that software.  Having that 
ability without the unfortunate "fuzzy logic" overhead would be a 
great step for Shadow.

I can think of other potential uses, but suffice it to say that this 
feature would be VERY useful.  PLEASE do it!

NOTE: Please forgive me if this is a repeat post -- my laptop battery 
went dead mid send on my first attempt and I'm not sure if it made it!

 --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Would people actually use this? We've nailed down the 
semantics
> awhile back, but upon thinking about it I'm wondering how many 
people
> would have a good use for it.
> 
> 	Consider; an item in a list could be "sent to" another list 
(new
> option I will add, to save on cut and pasting). Like when 
importing, I
> could add a "link to original" checkbox for the send-to dialog, so 
when
> you send the item to the other list, it remembers where it 
originally came
> from.
> 
> 	Then a change to it in the other list will change both. OKay, 
this
> sounds neat, but I can see only limited uses for it (but maybe my 
brain
> isn't creative today)
> 
> 	1) Multi-file filter would depend on this; specify a filter, 
and
> Shadow could scan through all files making a new file  linking to 
the
> originals. Then you could browse the resulting file, delete it, or 
jump to
> the originals. This is useful.
> 
> 	2) Given resource assignments, you could create a project 
file,
> and then "send to" items to other lists to hold assignments for
> individuals or other resource dependancies. OKay, this sounds good, 
maybe.
> 
> 	3) Any other uses?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 1:29am
Subject: Items duplicating on desktop?

Hi Jeff,

Something funky has been happening with items that I sync to the 
desktop, and I'm wondering if it is a known issue, or if I'm doing 
something wrong.

I decided to use Shadow as a grocery list.  It worked really well, 
and I made it through the store in record time despite having my 2-
year old tagging along.  Anyhoo, when I synched it to the desktop, 
checked items were duplicated.  The duplicates were unchecked, and 
reverted to "list type."  I deleted the duplicates on my desktop, but 
they reappeared after hotsynching.

For now, I have unchecked the sync to desktop option....


ps I checked out 2.02 and the filters work as advertised.  Thanks!  
Keep up the good work.

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 1:32am
Subject: Re: Shadow 2.0.2 Alpha Released!

Looks great to me, Jeff.

Nice work.



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	This has had light testing from the alpha group, but the 
changes
> are pretty minimal and I've had a number of people give it a thumbs
> up.. so here you go..
> 
> 	Let me know if the radar filter isn't what you wanted it to
> be. (There is a new Describe button that tells you vaguely what the
> filters do).
> 
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow202a.zip
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> Shadow 2.0.2
> ------------
> CHG: Filter screen is now full-screen; removed "Select" text and 
changed
>   form title to "Select only ..." to suggest the same thing. This 
gives us the
>   whole screen for holding thelist of filters. Help speed up things 
a bit.
>   (Doubled the number of filters listed on the screen).
> NEW: Added "Describe" button to filter screen
> NEW: Added Due and Radar filters
> 
> Shadow 2.0.1
> ------------
> NEW: Fitler "Next Step Only"; shows only an item that either:
> 	o has previous items that are all checked
> 	o item has no previous items and is unchecked
>      This tries to show only one item per subtree.
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 3:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Item in multiple lists? ("item to item link")

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Dash wrote:

> One obvious use of this would be enhanced ability to use contextual 
> lists as recommended in the Getting Things Done (GtD) methodology.  
> For instance, you may have lists for ToDos in the office, at the 
> computer, or at the phone.  Obviously, there is considerable overlap 
> here, so the ability to create multi-list items would greatly 
> facilitate such an approach.

	Remembering that in my implementation, the original (cloned) item
woudl not know about its clones. Deleting the original woudl not do
anythign to the clones, but they would complain about broken link.
Deleting a cloned offspring would have no comment anywhere. Deleting one
side would *not* delete the other (ie: There could be clones of clones, in
many places, so it'd b impossible to sensibly delete all references to a
single "item" without choking your unit for a few minutes)

> There are plenty of folks who have either experimented with, or are 
> refugees from, Life Balance and I would guess that contextual ToDo 
> lists are one of the main attractions to that software.  Having that 
> ability without the unfortunate "fuzzy logic" overhead would be a 
> great step for Shadow.
> 
> I can think of other potential uses, but suffice it to say that this 
> feature would be VERY useful.  PLEASE do it!

	I probably will, since the 2.0 architecture allows for this sort
of thing without too too much work.. but I got to worrying how useful it
would be beyond the above, and how valuable the above would be.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 3:16am
Subject: Re: Items duplicating on desktop?

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> I decided to use Shadow as a grocery list.  It worked really well, 
> and I made it through the store in record time despite having my 2-
> year old tagging along.  Anyhoo, when I synched it to the desktop, 
> checked items were duplicated.  The duplicates were unchecked, and 
> reverted to "list type."  I deleted the duplicates on my desktop, but 
> they reappeared after hotsynching.

	Duplication should only occur if you change an item on both the
desktop and the handheld, or if you have another computer in the mix.

> ps I checked out 2.02 and the filters work as advertised.  Thanks!  
> Keep up the good work.

	Great! I like the "Describe" function, though I may move it around
a bit.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 3:21am
Subject: Re: Items duplicating on desktop?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Duplication should only occur if you change an item on both 
the
> desktop and the handheld, or if you have another computer in the 
mix.
> 


There is another computer in the mix, but Shadow Desktop is only 
installed on one of them.  Do I need to do something special here?  

Do I need to install the latest version of Shadow Plan on both 
desktops?

C

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 3:29am
Subject: Re: Re: Items duplicating on desktop?

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> There is another computer in the mix, but Shadow Desktop is only 
> installed on one of them.  Do I need to do something special here?  

	If more than one computer is being synced against, you likely will
see duplicates. ie: Theres isn't a reasonable way to guarantee between 3
machines that data is not being lost, so to preserve and be safe, Shadow
duplicates in times of question. (ie: Given a 3rd computer, you can
nolonger tell if an item is "changed", it is merely "different". So rather
than guess which is changed, we duplicate to preserve both states).

	This sloppy logic only occurs the first sync on a new machine; so
if you make a change, sync to the old machine, then sync to the new
machine (no changes since last machine), then you can sync on the new
machine. Otherwise, if you sync on one machine, then change something, and
sync on a new machine, you'll get duplicates.

	I'll be improving it later but I have to work out some safety
scenarios.. its pretty complex stuff.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2001 4:23am
Subject: Re: Re: Items duplicating on desktop?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 25, 2001 10:30 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Items duplicating on desktop?


> I'll be improving it later but I have to work out some safety
>scenarios.. its pretty complex stuff.
>
> jeff
>


Jeff,

Wouldn't the option "Handheld over-writes Desktop" in the conduit help take
care of that 2nd computer?

My laptop is my main computer, and my DeskTop at the office is my secondary
computer (I stop in every couple of weeks.)  The first thing I do at the
office is HotSync with "Handheld over-writes Desktop" (the default.)  If I
do any updates on the desktop, I will HotSync again with "Synchronize Files"
temporarily set.

I have yet to put Shadow DeskTop on my DeskTop because of this situation.
For now