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2801

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:32pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
Either due today (target), or due before today and not completed.  In 
Shadow, this would be a combination of "today's target items" 
and "incomplete and target overdue."

ToDo+ has a "due" filter.  That and the "radar" (due in the next 7 
days or undated) are pretty nifty.  I think you mentioned once that 
you were considering a "radar" filter.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:
> 
> > While this ain't a bad idea, I think a filter/highlighter 
for "due" 
> > items -- one that captures items that are either due today or 
> > overdue -- would more useful to more people.  
> 
> 	Not already covered?
> 
> 	Define "due"?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2802

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
There is a "Current/Past Taregets" filter. Isn't this what your looking
for? I also use ToDo+, and almost always keep it on "Radar".


                                                                                                                   
                    grumpstone@y...                                                                                  
                    hoo.com              To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                                         cc:                                                                       
                    11/15/2001           Subject:     [shadow-discuss] Re: new filter proposal                     
                    12:32 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   





Either due today (target), or due before today and not completed.  In
Shadow, this would be a combination of "today's target items"
and "incomplete and target overdue."

ToDo+ has a "due" filter.  That and the "radar" (due in the next 7
days or undated) are pretty nifty.  I think you mentioned once that
you were considering a "radar" filter.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:
>
> > While this ain't a bad idea, I think a filter/highlighter
for "due"
> > items -- one that captures items that are either due today or
> > overdue -- would more useful to more people.
>
>          Not already covered?
>
>          Define "due"?
>
>                    jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2803

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> Either due today (target), or due before today and not completed.  In 
> Shadow, this would be a combination of "today's target items" 
> and "incomplete and target overdue."
> 
> ToDo+ has a "due" filter.  That and the "radar" (due in the next 7 
> days or undated) are pretty nifty.  I think you mentioned once that 
> you were considering a "radar" filter.

	I added the "next step only" filter to the alpha this morning. 

	If you want the following, I can add them ASAP (or not for
awhile). I'm in the filter adding mood :)

Due: Target less than or equal to today and unfinished
Radar: Target today or within 6 days of today, or no target, and
	unfinished.

	Those are useful?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2804

From: jreyes1958@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:54pm
Subject: filters, filters and project management

 
saw the thread on project management and SP and the idea of trying to
 link items to each other to set up hierachy of "next steps". so
thought I'd chime in on a related filter matter. 

I think the proposed item to item linking idea for project management
is overkill and will overcomplicate the product and then you have a
project manager that doesn't do all the other project management stuff
you need. Microsoft project is pretty easy for example, but people
just don't use it because the linking stuff gets pretty complicated.
SP doesn't need that headache IMHO.


The reason I can't really use SP to manage day to day projects as a
project manager is that null dates are not filtered out in some of the
filters views

For example if i choose current or future targets, i get all the items
that have null dates as well as dated ones, 

same thing happens if i choose current/past targets 

or choose items starting today -- you get items with null dates as
well as those starting today

the other filters seem to work as advertised but the ones listed above
could be tremendously more usefule than they are if you can suppress
the null dated items

Without being able to suppress null items (i would suggest that you
CAN display null pareents as long as the children meet your criteria)
the filters are useless for finding things to do on a date -- the null
dates just get in the way.

solve this and the project management aspects can be handled a lot easier.
2805

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:02pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I added the "next step only" filter to the alpha this 
morning. 
> 
> 	If you want the following, I can add them ASAP (or not for
> awhile). I'm in the filter adding mood :)
> 
> Due: Target less than or equal to today and unfinished
> Radar: Target today or within 6 days of today, or no target, and
> 	unfinished.
> 
> 	Those are useful?
> 


"Due" look great to me, but I have a question about "less than or 
equal to" today.  Does that mean that items with no target date 
appear?  Insofar as a target date is a type of deadline, I think the 
idea is to have only items with target dates of today or before, but 
not undated targets -- an item with no due date is not really due, 
and is never overdue.  The idea, methinks, is to have a way to 
capture time-sensitive items.

"Radar" looks perfect from here.
2806

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:06pm
Subject: Re: filters, filters and project management

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:

> Without being able to suppress null items (i would suggest that you
> CAN display null pareents as long as the children meet your criteria)
> the filters are useless for finding things to do on a date -- the null
> dates just get in the way.
> 
> solve this and the project management aspects can be handled a lot easier.

	If everyone agrees, I'll change them. It is easily done.

	Anyone who want sto keep undated items showing in most of the
filters?

	Need I set up a poll about this in yahoo? (they're fun ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2807

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:06pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
Can we take it one step farter and combine that with a
show only incomplete items so we would only see
step 3 in your example?

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 simonr@e... wrote:
> 
> > I'm just starting to use Shadow and I'd like to know if something is 
> > possible:
> > 
> > - If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' must 
> > be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded by 'choose 
> > colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that are 
> > preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the immediate 
> > priorities in the forest of actions!
> 
> 	OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
> shadow-discuss :)
> 
> 	Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
> have preceeding items checked. So if you had:
> 
> X	step 1 (checked)
> X	step 2 (checked)
> _	step 3
> _	step 4
> 
> 	Then you activate the filter, it'd show:
> 
> X	step 1
> X	step 2
> _	step 3
> 
> 	(step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
2808

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> "Due" look great to me, but I have a question about "less than or 
> equal to" today.  Does that mean that items with no target date 
> appear?  Insofar as a target date is a type of deadline, I think the 
> idea is to have only items with target dates of today or before, but 
> not undated targets -- an item with no due date is not really due, 
> and is never overdue.  The idea, methinks, is to have a way to 
> capture time-sensitive items.

	Agreed; I should've put that in.

> "Radar" looks perfect from here.

	Are we being redundant here? Would these be necessary if the other
filters didn't show undated items?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2809

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:13pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> There is a "Current/Past Taregets" filter. Isn't this what your 
looking
> for? I also use ToDo+, and almost always keep it on "Radar".
> 
> 


This is exactly what I was referring to, except that "current/past 
targets" includes undated items (most of my items in Shadow are 
undated).  My suggestion is to include only items that are actually 
due or overdue.  

The "incomplete and target overdue" comes closest, but it does not 
include things that are due today.  I guess what I'm asking for 
is "incomplete and target overdue or due today."
2810

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:14pm
Subject: Do we need.. toggle check shortcut?

 
For keyboard users. /T is taken, as is /C. IS some shorcut command
key to toggle check needed, and if so.. what key?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2811

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:14pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Learned wrote:

> Can we take it one step farter and combine that with a
> show only incomplete items so we would only see
> step 3 in your example?

	I was half asleep. Thats implicit :) (when "Show Next Step
Only" is on, you only see unchecked items, and only the first of any given
series)

		jeff

> 
> Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 simonr@e... wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm just starting to use Shadow and I'd like to know if something is 
> > > possible:
> > > 
> > > - If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' must 
> > > be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded by 'choose 
> > > colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that are 
> > > preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the immediate 
> > > priorities in the forest of actions!
> > 
> > 	OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
> > shadow-discuss :)
> > 
> > 	Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
> > have preceeding items checked. So if you had:
> > 
> > X	step 1 (checked)
> > X	step 2 (checked)
> > _	step 3
> > _	step 4
> > 
> > 	Then you activate the filter, it'd show:
> > 
> > X	step 1
> > X	step 2
> > _	step 3
> > 
> > 	(step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2812

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:23pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:
> 
> > "Due" look great to me, but I have a question about "less than or 
> > equal to" today.  Does that mean that items with no target date 
> > appear?  Insofar as a target date is a type of deadline, I think 
the 
> > idea is to have only items with target dates of today or before, 
but 
> > not undated targets -- an item with no due date is not really 
due, 
> > and is never overdue.  The idea, methinks, is to have a way to 
> > capture time-sensitive items.
> 
> 	Agreed; I should've put that in.
> 
> > "Radar" looks perfect from here.
> 
> Are we being redundant here? Would these be necessary if the other 
> filters didn't show undated items?
> 


Oh, I forgot to mention that "Radar" should include past due items as 
well.  While "radar" is a look ahead, for most people this would 
include doing all the things that were supposed to be finished by 
now....  Stuff you are already getting hollered at for....
2813

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 7:30pm
Subject: RE: Re: new filter proposal

 
Both of those filters, Due and Radar. would be very helpful.

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]

Due: Target less than or equal to today and unfinished
Radar: Target today or within 6 days of today, or no target, and
	unfinished.

	Those are useful?

		jeff
2814

From: hisimage8@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 9:18pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
> 
> 	I was half asleep. Thats implicit :) (when "Show Next Step
> Only" is on, you only see unchecked items, and only the first of 
any given
> series)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
 Thanks for working on this Jeff.  This is the one and only reason 
that I keep Life Balance on my prism.  I'm a home maker so most of my 
projects don't have tons of steps and I'm mostly able to get all 
my "next steps" in order as I think about the project. If I need to 
go back and add something in or change something, that's not hard and 
it still leaves all the other thought-out steps intact.  You couldn't 
possibly put this in too quickly for me.  :)  

Also, just wanted you to know that I purchased Shadow Desktop even 
though I haven't even looked at it yet nor do I expect to anytime 
soon.  However, I felt that it was a good way to support the 
wonderful work that you're doing.
2815

From: d_oren@n...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 9:49pm
Subject: Re: filters, filters and project management

 
Jeff,

Let me first say that I find the usage of Shadow Plan addictive. ;-)

About the undated items issue - I think the way they're handled is list dependant and 
should be added as a List Preference.

This way all participants of the poll you're planning to make will be satisfied. ;-)

Oren Danewitz.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:
> 
> > Without being able to suppress null items (i would suggest that you
> > CAN display null pareents as long as the children meet your criteria)
> > the filters are useless for finding things to do on a date -- the null
> > dates just get in the way.
> > 
> > solve this and the project management aspects can be handled a lot easier.
> 
> 	If everyone agrees, I'll change them. It is easily done.
> 
> 	Anyone who want sto keep undated items showing in most of the
> filters?
> 
> 	Need I set up a poll about this in yahoo? (they're fun ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2816

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Re: Project management question...

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 hisimage8@y... wrote:

>  Thanks for working on this Jeff.  This is the one and only reason 
> that I keep Life Balance on my prism.  I'm a home maker so most of my 
> projects don't have tons of steps and I'm mostly able to get all 
> my "next steps" in order as I think about the project. If I need to 
> go back and add something in or change something, that's not hard and 
> it still leaves all the other thought-out steps intact.  You couldn't 
> possibly put this in too quickly for me.  :)  

	Its in alpha if you wish to join shadow-test and take the dive.

> Also, just wanted you to know that I purchased Shadow Desktop even
> though I haven't even looked at it yet nor do I expect to anytime
> soon.  However, I felt that it was a good way to support the wonderful
> work that you're doing.

	Thanks :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2817

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: filters, filters and project management

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 d_oren@n... wrote:

> This way all participants of the poll you're planning to make will be
> satisfied. ;-)

	The poll is already open, and it looks like its going exactly the
worst way ;)

	30 votes, 24 of which being in the main two options.

Always sort undated/nil-priority to bottom  14  
Count undated/nil-priority as lowest value for sort  10  

	These are mutually exclusive. But, a global pref may be all that
is needed..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2818

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: filters, filters and project management

 
With all the talk today about filtering out the undated tasks, I find it
odd that so many of us would choose  "Count undated/nil-priority as lowest
value for sort". Are we sure that everyone read and understood your
instructions? For those that voted this way, what is gained by having
undated sorted this way? I'm not disagreeing with you, just want to
understand the uses. Thanks.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: filters, filters and project        
                    11/15/2001           management                                                                
                    04:04 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 d_oren@n... wrote:

> This way all participants of the poll you're planning to make will be
> satisfied. ;-)

           The poll is already open, and it looks like its going exactly
the
worst way ;)

           30 votes, 24 of which being in the main two options.

Always sort undated/nil-priority to bottom  14
Count undated/nil-priority as lowest value for sort  10

           These are mutually exclusive. But, a global pref may be all that
is needed..

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2819

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: filters, filters and project management

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> With all the talk today about filtering out the undated tasks, I find it
> odd that so many of us would choose  "Count undated/nil-priority as lowest
> value for sort". Are we sure that everyone read and understood your
> instructions? For those that voted this way, what is gained by having
> undated sorted this way? I'm not disagreeing with you, just want to
> understand the uses. Thanks.

	lowest value means that if sorting ascending, they go to the top
of screen (as mentioned earlier). Right now they are counted low, which
means they sort to the top. Sort descending and they shoudl go to the
bottom, but then you have "5" priority at the top (say).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2820

From: stimm@r...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:53pm
Subject: Re: Do we need.. toggle check shortcut?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	For keyboard users. /T is taken, as is /C. IS some shorcut 
command
> key to toggle check needed, and if so.. what key?

I don't know how the shortcuts map to the keys, but I intuitively 
expect the spacebar to check an item, but it seems to indent it 
underneath the item above it.  I would expect that to occur via a 
tab (or shift-tab for the reverse).

- Sean T.
2821

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:17am
Subject: Re: Re: Do we need.. toggle check shortcut?

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 stimm@r... wrote:

> I don't know how the shortcuts map to the keys, but I intuitively 
> expect the spacebar to check an item, but it seems to indent it 
> underneath the item above it.  I would expect that to occur via a 
> tab (or shift-tab for the reverse).

	Its because of the shortcuts I support. ie: Right-swipe in
grafitti area is indent, and left-swipe is promote. But if you think about
it, thats space and backspace.

	I forget if Enter does anything.. it could perhaps be used. 

	At any rate, is a toggle-check keyboard motion a needed one?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2822

From: stimm@r...
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:07am
Subject: Re: Do we need.. toggle check shortcut?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 stimm@r... wrote:
> 
> > I don't know how the shortcuts map to the keys, but I 
intuitively 
> > expect the spacebar to check an item, but it seems to indent it 
> > underneath the item above it.  I would expect that to occur via 
a 
> > tab (or shift-tab for the reverse).
> 
> 	Its because of the shortcuts I support. ie: Right-swipe in
> grafitti area is indent, and left-swipe is promote. But if you 
think about
> it, thats space and backspace.
> 
> 	I forget if Enter does anything.. it could perhaps be used. 
> 
> 	At any rate, is a toggle-check keyboard motion a needed one?
> 

I think so.  Is there any way you could detect if the keyboard was 
plugged in and re-map the shortcuts accordingly?
2823

From: d_oren@n...
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 5:33am
Subject: Re: filters, filters and project management

 
Well, I don't think it should be a global pref but a list pref. 
I can think of 2 different contexts of lists where each should handle undated items 
differently.

Oren Danewitz,

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 d_oren@n... wrote:
> 
> > This way all participants of the poll you're planning to make will be
> > satisfied. ;-)
> 
> 	The poll is already open, and it looks like its going exactly the
> worst way ;)
> 
> 	30 votes, 24 of which being in the main two options.
> 
> Always sort undated/nil-priority to bottom  14  
> Count undated/nil-priority as lowest value for sort  10  
> 
> 	These are mutually exclusive. But, a global pref may be all that
> is needed..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2824

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:41am
Subject: RE: Suggestion T of C view

 
Been thinking about this too. I think I'd like to have Shadow open in my
TOC in collapsed view. Then I could just choose 'Clients', 'Projects',
'House', etc. and Zoom to see or jump to each's linked lists. Possible? 
 
Cheers
 
 
Dave


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2825

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:45am
Subject: RE: Suggestion T of C view

 
>I've thought about it. ie: Tap on the item anywhere, and it just
 > goes through the file link. But what if you've linked to all sorts of
 > things like addresses and such.. nothign stopping you from doing
that,
 > right? So it'd have to be a "if only one link, do it", but then it
becomes
 > an inconsistent interface..
 
Could a TOC type be added to the custom view possibilities? i.e. a list
type where clinking on the item takes you straight to a linked file.....
 
Cheers
 
 
Dave
TOCs rule OK



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2826

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 10:08am
Subject: RE: Re: new filter proposal

 
I use ToDo+ pending Shadow being able to sort across lists. Adding
functionalities like 'due' and 'radar' to filters in Shadow don't help
me, unless the across lists feature is there.
 
Been thinking though that as ToDo+ does exist, why add bloat to Shadow?
If Shadow tips users can develop useful methodologies for specific
purposes - list-keeping, outlining, project planning, etc., then perhaps
we could see Shadow as part of a 'suite' of programmes (dare I say
'office'?). I like to use apps where developers are open in their
approach and co-operate with other developers to build functionality
across software in response the needs of real users (cf MS who want to
take over everything and build in all the functionality and bugs I'll
(n)ever need). Shadow's huge selling point is it's links - let's use
them, not try to replicate the functionality of other good programmes in
Shadow (then Jeff can concentrate on e.g. developing
linking/importing/exporting ability - in Desktop). Just a thought....
 
Also....Jeff's impact for me is not just the usefullness of the
programme but his whole approach to product development and response to
his customer base. I now resent Iambic - I like Action Names, with a few
tweaks I'd like it a lot more but they just aren't interested in what
their users think (I'm now watching to see how Standalone go with their
new Dateman product).
 
Cheers
 
 
Dave
 
PS Re 'support for 'international' characters. Why does 'international'
in software mean every country other than the US (or are they not
international too?!!)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2827

From: Anthony Milonas  <tonyelit@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 9:49am
Subject: Re: Digest Number 295

 
OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
> shadow-discuss :)
>
>       Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
> have preceeding items checked. So if you had:
>
> X      step 1 (checked)
> X      step 2 (checked)
> _      step 3
> _      step 4
>
>       Then you activate the filter, it'd show:
>
> X      step 1
> X      step 2
> _      step 3
>
>       (step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)
>
And to take this concept one step further you could offer  a big part of LB
functionality if you could combine the proposed filter with the ability to
toggle the todo link on items,based on it (e.g to post to the ToDo database
only items visible to this filter).This way the toDo list  which intergrates
all doable items from all  different lists, whould have the same capabilty
for Next Action as Shadow Plan :)
This process could be manual. When this filter is applied it could ask if it
should togle todolink
2828

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 1:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Do we need.. toggle check shortcut?

 
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 stimm@r... wrote:

> I think so.  Is there any way you could detect if the keyboard was 
> plugged in and re-map the shortcuts accordingly?

	Well, you really mean if I can detect the true source of a
character; I'm not sure. In theory you can, but in practise the keyboard
drivers seem to be a bit.. unreliable in that respect. But I've not
experimented in awhile, so maybe the current crop of drivers are better.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2829

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:03pm
Subject: RE: Suggestion T of C view

 
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, David Keltie wrote:

>  >I've thought about it. ie: Tap on the item anywhere, and it just
>  > goes through the file link. But what if you've linked to all sorts of
>  > things like addresses and such.. nothign stopping you from doing
> that,
>  > right? So it'd have to be a "if only one link, do it", but then it
> becomes
>  > an inconsistent interface..
>  
> Could a TOC type be added to the custom view possibilities? i.e. a list
> type where clinking on the item takes you straight to a linked file.....

	Still sounds like a bad idea. ie: Multiple link problem above. 

	But tap-to-select is Shadows way, too. If you have tap-to-load,
then it makes it very annoying if you wanted to check an item, but
mistakenly tapped a bit too far right and then loaded the file. Then you
have to hit close and tap again to do the check, or expand, or
whatever. It basicly makes an inconcsistent GUI, and makes it difficult to
use other shadow features on those items.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2830

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:13pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 295

 
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Anthony Milonas wrote:

> And to take this concept one step further you could offer  a big part of LB
> functionality if you could combine the proposed filter with the ability to
> toggle the todo link on items,based on it (e.g to post to the ToDo database
> only items visible to this filter).This way the toDo list  which intergrates
> all doable items from all  different lists, whould have the same capabilty
> for Next Action as Shadow Plan :)

	Turn on the ToDo link column, use the NExt Step Only filter, and
you're good to go :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2831

From: big_b901@h...
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 2:59pm
Subject: Desktop Question

 
I am probably in the minority here, but my PC is the main thing that 
I work on all day.  The PDA gets used only when I am away from my 
desk.  I have been waiting for the Shadow desktop like a kid waiting 
for Christmas.  I downloaded it the first week it became available.  
Installed it on my machine and was, well, disapointed.  It seems to 
be more of a XML editor than a desktop version of ShadowPlan.  When I 
look at the 0.1.5 alpha teaser at 
http://www.codejedi.com/shadowdesktop/screenshots/desktop015.gif it 
seems much closer to looking like a desktop version of ShadowPlan 
then the version that shipped 5 months later.  Will future versions 
of the desktop look more like ShadowPlan or do other users prefer the 
XML editor look?  


Thanks

Brian

P.S.  If I have overlooked something that changes the mode to show 
check boxes and progress bars, etc please forgive me for wasting your 
time. : )
2832

From: howland.charles@e...
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 3:27pm
Subject: Using ShadowPlan with Ecco

 
Following is a post I just made to another Yahoo group, re use of 
ShadowPlan w/ Ecco.  Some translation is in order:  "TLI" stands for 
Top Level Item, which is just that: the highest level item in a 
hierarchical list.  "SLI" stnads for Sub Level Item, which means all 
subs to TLIs.  The distinction arises in ECCO b/c there has always 
been something of a debate between those who believe that Ecco is 
best used keeping each nugget of info as a TLI, despite the fact that 
you can drop SLIs as well as TLIs into ECCO "folders" (which may be 
akin to the "tags" being discussed here).  & yes, there are a fair 
number of us ECCO users still out here, and we are fanatical. . .

--- In eccopro@y..., "Larry Hunter" <lmh@h...> wrote:
> I just downloaded and installed the ShadowPlan outliner for the 
> Palm.  On first glance, it does seem a pretty useful way to use 
Ecco 
> in an outlining way on the Palm.
> 
> I'm curious:  has anyone played with this and got any more 
extensive 
> commentary on whether it's worth the money?  My first question is 
> that it seems to go to the to-do list and allow its use as an 
> outline -- but if you work on it on the palm, do these changes 
> successfully make it back to Ecco?
> 
> Thanks for any comments anyone has.

I've been happily using Shadow plan for several months, albeit 
rudimentarily.  I'm also an extreme ECCO user (I supose an oxymoron 
on this group).  I'm pretty sure the only way to make 'links' between 
the two programs is via the fact that Shadowplan's equivalent to 
Ecco 'TLIs' & 'SLIs' can link to Palm's todo's and dates, which in 
turn will show up in ECCO.  I imagine, though, that you can't mimic 
Ecco's hierarchical structure in ShadowPlan, because of anomalies 
that seem to crop up in the syncing when you try to bring over SLIs, 
as such, into Palm.  (I think I recall the warning in NetManage's 
Ecco/Palm documentation about difficulties in trying to map SLIs to 
Palm'recognizable records (dates, todos, memos.)

One note, to ensure at least that items created, and deleted, in 
Shadow plan are likewise dealt with in Palm's dbase (& thus Ecco):  
To ensure the first, in Shadowplan, go into list-specific preferences 
(under the "list" menu), then to "Opt," and check on the "always link 
new items to Todo."  To ensure the second, in Shadowplan go into 
program-wide preferences (under the "help" menu) and check on 
the "delete item deletes links."

Hope this helps.
2833

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 3:49pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Question

 
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 big_b901@h... wrote:

> I am probably in the minority here, but my PC is the main thing that 
> I work on all day.  The PDA gets used only when I am away from my 
> desk.  I have been waiting for the Shadow desktop like a kid waiting 
> for Christmas.  I downloaded it the first week it became available.  
> Installed it on my machine and was, well, disapointed.  It seems to 
> be more of a XML editor than a desktop version of ShadowPlan.  When I 
> look at the 0.1.5 alpha teaser at 
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowdesktop/screenshots/desktop015.gif it 
> seems much closer to looking like a desktop version of ShadowPlan 
> then the version that shipped 5 months later.  Will future versions 
> of the desktop look more like ShadowPlan or do other users prefer the 
> XML editor look?  

	As time progresses it will become more of a Shadow On Desktop. The
original alphas were getting neat, but were very complex and taking a long
time to get anywhere. So I took inventory and decided to go for something
useful and functioanl and that I could actually get out to people soon.
Then I'll work on making it pretty and functional over time. (Thats how I
prefer to work; deliver early and often, so you can guide how it
develops.)

	Remember the rule; you could have shadow desktop as good as the
handheld version, and waited an extra year for it. That year of
development would cost, so I'd have to charge $50 for it to try and get
back some of my coin. That means sales would be low, so I'd be out of
business. I also don't want to charge that much.

	So you get it now, and its young, and its cheap. Then I can build
on it and know that I've got a bit of coin coming in to help recover
costs. (It'll be in the hole forever, or at least a year :/)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2834

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 7:22pm
Subject: Re: Suggestion T of C view

 
What if this was take this idea just a little further -

A global preference -- "start-up list" (could be type TofC)
A global preference "time before startup" (in minutes)
A list preference [ auto-expand  / auto collapse / last view ] (Pick list)

The start up list could be empty and would act just the way it does today

If any list is specified it would be displayed providing the last launch
exceeded the value in last launch time.

Example-

If last launch time was set to 3 and you switch out of shadow to check
something then switched back in less than 3 min. You would are back where
you left thing. (Same as current)

However, if you leave shadow longer than 3 min and came back, the list
specified in the start up preference.

At the list level auto-expand  would "Expand all" every time you pull up the
list, auto-collapse would "Collapse All" every time the list was pulled up
and "Last View" would work as it does today.

With these preferences (and a list or item type of TofC) you could configure
what you are asking for and much more!  I would use "Auto Collapse" on most
of my lists -- (may need to key off the time interval also)

-----Original Message-----
From: David Keltie <dave@z...>
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, November 16, 2001 4:42 AM
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Suggestion T of C view


>Been thinking about this too. I think I'd like to have Shadow open in my
>TOC in collapsed view. Then I could just choose 'Clients', 'Projects',
>'House', etc. and Zoom to see or jump to each's linked lists. Possible?
>
>Cheers
>
>
>Dave
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
2835

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 7:36pm
Subject: Re: Suggestion T of C view

 
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Ed Barlett wrote:

> A global preference -- "start-up list" (could be type TofC)
> A global preference "time before startup" (in minutes)

	Good idea. Or maybe I could just assume "5 minutes", or maybe just
always use TOC, except for goto/returns. But maybe 5 minutes is best.

> A list preference [ auto-expand  / auto collapse / last view ] (Pick list)

	I can't think of too many cases you would want to auto-expand on
close, but I can see auto-collapse. So maybe just a checkbox in the Opts
screen to "auto collapse list on close" (Collapse All)

	I have thought about just assuming "TOC" as a filename, but that
might confuse people (they'd never find the option?), or maybe someone
wants to have several TOC's and swap between their settings every once in
awhile, without doing renames. (ie: I dislike changing the size of list
prefs, since it can screw up a number of things, and some other peopels
jobs read the prefs. So extending the pref space is sometimes a pain. So
storing filenames in prefs can be goofy).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2836

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 8:27pm
Subject: Re: Suggestion T of C view

 
On 2001-11-16 at 14:36, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> > A global preference -- "start-up list" (could be type TofC)
> > A global preference "time before startup" (in minutes)
> 
>   Good idea. Or maybe I could just assume "5 minutes", or maybe just
> always use TOC, except for goto/returns. But maybe 5 minutes is best.

Yes, yes, please

                jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
2837

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:30pm
Subject: Cut / Copy Children

 
Perhaps this question should be over on the [shadow-tips] because I am
looking for tips, or is that for posting tips??

I'll ask the questions first an then give the background so perhaps there is
a better (existing) way to do what I want.

Any interest in adding -

   - Import by category  (Most wanted)
   - Delete behind function in the import function (would be nice)
   - Category / done filter in the "new from..." dialog (would be helpfull)


Is there any way to copy only the children of an item?

I have been copying the ITEM A with children, pasting as child to ITEM B the
demoting each child under ITEM A then deleting the ITEM A.  Is there faster
way to copy the children to an item as children?  With 30 children, copy+
takes longer than the demoting method.

=====

I've been spending some time moving ToDo's out of my ToDo database and
organizing them into shadow lists.  I am still looking at how exactly I will
exploit the power of Shadow to enhance my implementation of a  modified
Franklin / Covey system using DateBK4.  My biggest problem with what I do
today is the shear number of tasks that I must track.  4 projects at Church,
8 - 10 projects at work, 6-8 projects at home, shopping lists for
groceries, hardware, home improvement, etc. which has been crying for
hierarchical organization.  THANK YOU SHADOW ! ! !

The Vision:

I would work most of the day in DateBK4 (as I currently do) giving out
assignments, making commitments, logging calls, completing tasks, and
negotiating schedules.  I won't switch out  of DateBK4, I will continue
entering ToDos directly into the ToDo database.

Once a day I want to sit down for "planning and solitude" where I will start
off collecting new ToDos from the ToDo database, and move them to the proper
spot in a shadow list.  Review my lists, (other planning stuff here) and
place in my ToDo  database only those tasks I would like to accomplish that
day.

My problems:

#1 ) Importing from the ToDo brings in everything - including completed and
pending / forwarded tasks, and those trivial repeating tasks. It would be
perfect if could import only items from category "Unfiled" and all imported
tasks would be removed from the ToDo database.  It is impractical to sort
through this list (5 shadow  lists) every day.

I moved all completed ToDos to the archive database and this helped, but I
really don't want to do this every day, and would prefer to have at least a
month's worth of completed ToDo's in the database at all times.

#2) Looking at this from the other direction, get into shadow and use the
'New From...' function is just as hard if not worse.  I still get a list of
all ToDos completed or not, and I don't know which ones for sure are in the
"Unfiled" category.  Even with a filter just showing only "Unfiled" it would
be a manual, one-at-a-time procedure to import each item, delete it from the
ToDo database.

If all else fails -- there's always cut and paste

I'm sure I'll find wonderfull ways of using Shadow - it's a well desgned
feature-rich application...








_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
2838

From: Eugene Bogorad  <chuck_bogorad@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 0:02am
Subject: The so-called ‘international characters problem’

 
I'm a (happy) Bonsai user, read about ShadowPlain in
(http://www.writingonyourpalm.net/). I downloaded, installed it and
tried to create a test outline on the palm. Worked ok, and I
hotsync'ed it to my PC. The desktop app failed to load it saying: 

`Could not open file! Perhaps not yet supported international
characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 4)'

Ok, I live in Russia and use Cyrillic {charset="windows-1251"}
characters in ALL OTHER palm programs without ANY problems. So, they don't know about it, who cares? Why would you want to get into `international charactes' in the first place? Why not treat those as plain 8-bit data? Everybody else does it and it works fine. Instead, you restrict groups of chars and cause genuine pain to potential users. 

The only viable alternative is using UTF-8, with conversions and bla-bla-bla, which is a real pain, so why bother? This is a really unexpected problem!

{WinXp, Palm-Vx OSv4.0, Shadow Desktop v1.0.0, Shadow v2.0.0}
2839

From: ltan10@y...
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 1:16am
Subject: converting bonsai files to shadow

 
Is there an easier way than cut-and-paste to convert Bonsai files to 
Shadow format? Export to memopad and subsequent import to Shadow 
loses the attached notes.  The levels and spacing have to be re-done 
as well.

Any help would be appreciated.

Larry
2840

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:34am
Subject: Re: Cut / Copy Children

 
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Ed Barlett wrote:

> Perhaps this question should be over on the [shadow-tips] because I am
> looking for tips, or is that for posting tips??

	For posting good solid ideas. Questions should remain here.

>    - Import by category  (Most wanted)

	On my list.

>    - Delete behind function in the import function (would be nice)

	Not likely; automatic deletion is always asking for trouble
("oops, I didn't mean to import aht one!").

>    - Category / done filter in the "new from..." dialog (would be helpfull)

	Yep, hopefully not too far away.

> Is there any way to copy only the children of an item?

	IS there somethign in the Edit menu? I don't think I ever added
it. Not enough room in the menu :)  Using the multi-clip mode should be
pretty easy unless you have a tonne of children.

> Franklin / Covey system using DateBK4.  My biggest problem with what I do
> today is the shear number of tasks that I must track.  4 projects at Church,
> 8 - 10 projects at work, 6-8 projects at home, shopping lists for
> groceries, hardware, home improvement, etc. which has been crying for
> hierarchical organization.  THANK YOU SHADOW ! ! !

	:) If you have any slick tricks that you've discovered, post them
to shadow-tips :)

> I would work most of the day in DateBK4 (as I currently do) giving out
> assignments, making commitments, logging calls, completing tasks, and
> negotiating schedules.  I won't switch out of DateBK4, I will continue
> entering ToDos directly into the ToDo database.

	I do all this in Shadow, farming a few items out to my datebook
(Action Names) or ToDo as needed :)

> Once a day I want to sit down for "planning and solitude" where I will
> start off collecting new ToDos from the ToDo database, and move them
> to the proper spot in a shadow list.  Review my lists, (other planning
> stuff here) and place in my ToDo database only those tasks I would
> like to accomplish that day.

	I'll definitely be making it easier to import multiple items in
one shot.

> #1 ) Importing from the ToDo brings in everything - including completed and
> pending / forwarded tasks, and those trivial repeating tasks. It would be
> perfect if could import only items from category "Unfiled" and all imported
> tasks would be removed from the ToDo database.  It is impractical to sort
> through this list (5 shadow  lists) every day.

	Hmm, I see what you mean. I never expected someoen to do most of
their work in DB/TD and then import new items into Shadow on a daily basis
in that volume. 

	Importing incomplete items could help, but maybe not. By category
will, so I suppose you could put all your new items into a category in
those apps, but then you'd be disorganized in those apps. *shrug*. Ideas?

	Import and remove.. could do, not too hard.. but makes me itch.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2841

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:40am
Subject: Re: The so-called ‘international characters problem’

 
On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Eugene Bogorad wrote:

> Ok, I live in Russia and use Cyrillic {charset="windows-1251"}
> characters in ALL OTHER palm programs without ANY problems. So, they

	All others with a desktop? Cross platform? Open standards? Web
publishing? How many have you tried? ;) (the handheld has never had an
international problem. Only the desktop, because its 2 weeks old).

> don't know about it, who cares? Why would you want to get into
> `international charactes' in the first place? Why not treat those as
> plain 8-bit data? Everybody else does it and it works fine. Instead,
> you restrict groups of chars and cause genuine pain to potential
> users.

	You cannot treat them as 8 bit characters, especially when XML,
Windows, Mac, and Unix are all in the mix. Were I just writing for
Windows, or Mac, or Unix, it would be easy. But writing for multiple
operating systems is very difficult to support wide characters.
Furthermore, XML and Unicode make it really miserable (ie: Large time
investment up front). Also, the code may eventually run on PocketPC and
RIM's, so I'm being very carefull.

	You won't find any other app that is both cross platform and
supporting open standards ;)

> The only viable alternative is using UTF-8, with conversions and
> bla-bla-bla, which is a real pain, so why bother? This is a really
> unexpected problem!

	Yeah, it got bigger than I thought, too. Blame that on standards
committes making me translate a half dozen times :(

	If I had used a custom format instead of XML, I could've been done
a lot more in half the time, but instead I'm being a good and open
developer so that others can write extensions and empowering Shadow users
to publish their data in as many wasys as they can think of.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2842

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:41am
Subject: Re: converting bonsai files to shadow

 
On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 ltan10@y... wrote:

> Is there an easier way than cut-and-paste to convert Bonsai files to 
> Shadow format? Export to memopad and subsequent import to Shadow 
> loses the attached notes.  The levels and spacing have to be re-done 
> as well.

	Can you send me a Bonsai memo export, so I can see how it
looks? Perhaps a quick tweek in the importer can make your life easier. Or
perhaps you can use a quick macro in a word pro to translate the memos to
Shadow friendly?

	If you can get it to the desktop, then a wordpro macro can also
make it easy to uplaod via the desktop. (And I'm working on a desktop
reformatting tool to make formatting easier.. though there are about 100
different formats to support on the desktop, so I may be awhile :P)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2843

From: ltan10@y...
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:37am
Subject: Re: converting bonsai files to shadow

 
This is a sample test file that I made in Bonsai and exported to 
memopad, preserving the numbers only
1.  ABC
        1.  DEF
            1.  Hij
        2.  KLM
            1.  NOP
            2.  123
        3.  QRS
                1.  TUV
                          456
        4.  WXYZ
2.  A1B2
3.  CDE
        1.  123
4.  XYZ


This is the same file preserving, numbers, completion status, 
category,etc.

Test file

Unfiled    (1)     1.  ABC
Personal   (1)             1.  DEF
Unfiled    (3)                 1.  Hij
Unfiled    (1)             2.  KLM
Business    (4)                 1.  NOP
Personal    (1)                 2.  123
Unfiled    (5)             3.  QRS
Unfiled    (1)                     1.  TUV
Unfiled    (1)                               456
Unfiled    (1)             4.  WXYZ
Unfiled    (1)     2.  A1B2
Unfiled    (1) [X]    3.  CDE
Unfiled    (1)             1.  123
Unfiled    (2) [ 0%]    4.  XYZ


The notes associated with this file are lost, either way.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 
> 	Can you send me a Bonsai memo export, so I can see how it
> looks? Perhaps a quick tweek in the importer can make your life 
easier. Or
> perhaps you can use a quick macro in a word pro to translate the 
memos to
> Shadow friendly?
> 
> 	If you can get it to the desktop, then a wordpro macro can 
also
> make it easy to uplaod via the desktop. (And I'm working on a 
desktop
> reformatting tool to make formatting easier.. though there are 
about 100
> different formats to support on the desktop, so I may be awhile :P)
> 
> 		jeff
2844

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:12am
Subject: Re: converting bonsai files to shadow

 
At 06:41 PM 11/16/2001, you wrote:
>Can you send me a Bonsai memo export, so I can see how it
>looks?

Just so you guys know... Bonsai can do many types of exports.. not just the 
memopad. You can even make your own customized export.

Brenda
Bonsai user who is looking at Shadow now..
2845

From: David & Alicia Hart  <davidchart@e...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 4:14am
Subject: RE: Cut / Copy Children

 
I am currently evaluating SP (might be buying soon, if...).  Some comments
on this thread:

> Any interest in adding -
>
>    - Import by category  (Most wanted)
>    - Delete behind function in the import function (would be nice)
>    - Category / done filter in the "new from..." dialog (would be
> helpfull)

1st & 3rd items: ME TOO!!!! - If this will be a part of SP soon, I'm buying!


> I've been spending some time moving ToDo's out of my ToDo database and
> organizing them into shadow lists.  I am still looking at how
> exactly I will
> exploit the power of Shadow to enhance my implementation of a  modified
> Franklin / Covey system using DateBK4.  My biggest problem with what I do
> today is the shear number of tasks that I must track.  4 projects
> at Church,
> 8 - 10 projects at work, 6-8 projects at home, shopping lists for
> groceries, hardware, home improvement, etc. which has been crying for
> hierarchical organization.  THANK YOU SHADOW ! ! !

This is exactly how I want to use SP also.  LB was too automatic for me, but
I NEED the hierarchy.  I too have been experimenting with integrating SP
with DB4 somehow.

Any tips from anyone on approximating the Franklin Covey system with SP/DB4
would be GREATLY appreciated.


I like the new buttons in the list views on v2.0!  (or did I miss them on
1.5.14...)
2846

From: David & Alicia Hart  <davidchart@e...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 4:17am
Subject: RE: Cut / Copy Children

 
No signature in previous post...

FYI, I'm David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David & Alicia Hart [mailto:davidchart@e...]
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 10:15 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Cut / Copy Children
>
>
> I am currently evaluating SP (might be buying soon, if...).  Some comments
> on this thread:
>
> > Any interest in adding -
> >
> >    - Import by category  (Most wanted)
> >    - Delete behind function in the import function (would be nice)
> >    - Category / done filter in the "new from..." dialog (would be
> > helpfull)
>
> 1st & 3rd items: ME TOO!!!! - If this will be a part of SP soon,
> I'm buying!
>
>
> > I've been spending some time moving ToDo's out of my ToDo database and
> > organizing them into shadow lists.  I am still looking at how
> > exactly I will
> > exploit the power of Shadow to enhance my implementation of a  modified
> > Franklin / Covey system using DateBK4.  My biggest problem with
> what I do
> > today is the shear number of tasks that I must track.  4 projects
> > at Church,
> > 8 - 10 projects at work, 6-8 projects at home, shopping lists for
> > groceries, hardware, home improvement, etc. which has been crying for
> > hierarchical organization.  THANK YOU SHADOW ! ! !
>
> This is exactly how I want to use SP also.  LB was too automatic
> for me, but
> I NEED the hierarchy.  I too have been experimenting with integrating SP
> with DB4 somehow.
>
> Any tips from anyone on approximating the Franklin Covey system
> with SP/DB4
> would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
>
> I like the new buttons in the list views on v2.0!  (or did I miss them on
> 1.5.14...)
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
2847

From: mandora@a...
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 5:11am
Subject: Thanks!

 
Jeff, thanks for your detailed response to my lengthly suggestions 
regarding the desktop. Seems most of my dreams will come true! Please 
reconsider right click capability, tho. Its standard in every 
business application I use and saves a lot of work. Agreed tho that 
even without it, Shadow is an excellent program for me, - Morris 
Manning

P.S. - I am an executive who has been using a PDA since 1992 - no 
paper organizer of any kind. I have used 3 Sharps and 4 Palms. 
Currently, use a Palm M505. I use a number of hacks to add 
functionality and at one time or another have tried at least 150 
programs. - Functionality is what I look for and you have delivered.
2848

From: Mike Barnhouse  <barnhse@u...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 10:13am
Subject: Mike Barnhouse/Raleigh/IBM is out of the office until Nov 25, 2001.

 
I will be out of the office starting November 16, 2001 and will not return
until November 25, 2001.

I will respond to your message when I return.
My backup is Muhammad Malik, T/L 444-8772.
2849

From: The McGuire Family  <mcguirej@a...>
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 0:45pm
Subject: Re: Cut/Copy Children

 
Hi Ed,

Your wrote:

>The Vision:
>I would work most of the day in DateBK4 (as I currently do) giving out
>assignments, making commitments, logging calls, completing tasks, and
>negotiating schedules.  I won't switch out  of DateBK4, I will continue
>entering ToDos directly into the ToDo database.
>Once a day I want to sit down for "planning and solitude" where I will start
>off collecting new ToDos from the ToDo database, and move them to the proper
>spot in a shadow list.  Review my lists, (other planning stuff here) and
>place in my ToDo  database only those tasks I would like to accomplish that
>day.

I do something very much like this myself.  

>#1 ) Importing from the ToDo brings in everything - including completed and
>pending / forwarded tasks, and those trivial repeating tasks. It would be
>perfect if could import only items from category "Unfiled" and all imported
>tasks would be removed from the ToDo database.  It is impractical to sort
>through this list (5 shadow  lists) every day.

I too, found this a torture.  I ended up importing small chunks at a time using
'New From', and it took me forever to get things organized.

>#2) Looking at this from the other direction, get into shadow and use the
>'New From...' function is just as hard if not worse.  I still get a list of
>all ToDos completed or not, and I don't know which ones for sure are in the
>"Unfiled" category.  Even with a filter just showing only "Unfiled" it would
>be a manual, one-at-a-time procedure to import each item, delete it from the
>ToDo database.

Actually, this is my current solution - sort of.  Now I create new "ToDos" only 
in DateBk4, but create them as Floating events.  I never create ToDos.  This way
I can use 'New From' to import my Floats, and then create ToDos only from Shadow.
I NEVER create a ToDo in the ToDo application itself.

Not a perfect solution.  Maybe you can give it a try.  I know it would work better for
me if I did the "once a day review and import" step more regularly!

Best regards,

Jim
2850

From: opitz@s...
Date: Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:28pm
Subject: Re: Cut / Copy Children

 
The latest version of Datebk4 (4.1, currently in early beta) supports 
some block operations, including Delete, in the List View. If Shadow 
allowed Ed to selectively import only Unfiled to-do's, he could then 
go to a saved view in DB4 that showed only Unfiled to-do's and delete 
them all with a single command. This may make Ed happy without making 
Jeff itch.

Bob


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, Ed Barlett wrote:
> 
> >    - Category / done filter in the "new from..." dialog (would be 
helpfull)
> 
   - and -
> 
> > I would work most of the day in DateBK4 (as I currently do) giving 
out
> > assignments, making commitments, logging calls, completing tasks, 
and
> > negotiating schedules.  I won't switch out of DateBK4, I will 
continue
> > entering ToDos directly into the ToDo database.
> 
> 	I do all this in Shadow, farming a few items out to my 
datebook
> (Action Names) or ToDo as needed :)
> 
> > Once a day I want to sit down for "planning and solitude" where I 
will
> > start off collecting new ToDos from the ToDo database, and move 
them
> > to the proper spot in a shadow list.  Review my lists, (other 
planning
> > stuff here) and place in my ToDo database only those tasks I would
> > like to accomplish that day.
> 
> 	I'll definitely be making it easier to import multiple items 
in
> one shot.
> 
> > #1 ) Importing from the ToDo brings in everything - including 
completed and
> > pending / forwarded tasks, and those trivial repeating tasks. It 
would be
> > perfect if could import only items from category "Unfiled" and all 
imported
> > tasks would be removed from the ToDo database.  It is impractical 
to sort
> > through this list (5 shadow  lists) every day.
> 
> 	Hmm, I see what you mean. I never expected someoen to do most 
of
> their work in DB/TD and then import new items into Shadow on a daily 
basis
> in that volume. 
> 
> 	Importing incomplete items could help, but maybe not. By 
category
> will, so I suppose you could put all your new items into a category 
in
> those apps, but then you'd be disorganized in those apps. *shrug*. 
Ideas?
> 
> 	Import and remove.. could do, not too hard.. but makes me 
itch.
2851

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 3:59am
Subject: Re: Re: Cut / Copy Children

 
Jeff, David, Jim and Bob,

Thanks for your comments!  I'm still working through this process, and will
find out this week how this is going to work in real time.  I've had the
luxury of a long weekend to "play" with the system and get reorganized

Deleting imported items -

Jeff, I can understand your reluctance to add this powerful option. "Once
you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny; consume
you it will." JediMaster Yoda  You would have to add quite a "Warning!
Warning! ..... are you sure?"  dialog after The OK and before the import.

Bob, You're right in both points!
1) All imported ToDos will be in the "Unfiled" category.
2) I could use a list view and the "Delete All" function.

During the time the "Delete Imported ToDo" option is not available (perhaps
forever) I would create a saved view -- List view -- single category
"Unfiled" and use the "Delete all items..." menu function.

I will also look at using link manager item-by-item and use the  "Delete the
Link Entirely" function.  I could also see where this might be an advantage
for when there are items that are trivial and don't need to go into a list,
I could take that opportunity to just change category.

Jim, in response to >#1 ) Importing from the ToDo brings in everything - you
said "I too, found this a torture.  I ended up importing small chunks at a
time using 'New From', and it took me forever to get things organized."

Once you got past the initial import / organization phase, (a good 6+ hours
for me.), did things get easier?

Your other comments about using floats --

This would be a cool idea if it weren't for the fact that, as appointments
each day, I have several repeating check-off lists 10-15 items each,
reminders (8-10) , schedule for me, my wife, and 4 active teens, phone /
visit logs 10+.  Without some sort of filter on  the "New From..." list
function, I would have to page through upward of 40 appointments/day --
that's about 300 items to page through 6 at a time to find the Item I need.
(You should see the pause while shadow builds the list!)

Filter options would be quite limited in this dialog.  The concept of
floats, completed, struck, categories on the native datebook application do
not exist and I would no expect Jeff to code filters to any specific 3rd
party application -- no matter how great it is. <BG>

David, Any tips from anyone on approximating the Franklin Covey system with
SP/DB4
would be GREATLY appreciated. --
Jeff, :) If you have any slick tricks that you've discovered, post them
to shadow-tips :)

I'll write up my implementation after a couple weeks of working with it
SP/DateBK4 integration!  You can find a post re:F/C on DateBK4 in the
pimlicodatebk yahoo list archives - you should be able to find it if search
for DPTL. (Could use some clarifying, I'm sure)

Moving imported items into lists--

Any tips on how to quickly sort out the imported list?  I took the T of C
suggestions as I was building my lists, every one has a link to the T of C
list as the first item.  Every list is in the T of C list with a link to the
list.  I will probably start the sorting-out process by adding a T of C link
and leave a Import link in the T of C.

Jeff, per other discussions on T of C, how about a "T" button to the left of
the "C" button that will take you to the T of C?

Cut / Copy Children -

Jeff, in response to > Is there any way to copy only the children of an
item? you wrote "IS there something in the Edit menu? I don't think I ever
added it. Not enough room in the menu :)

How about in the "C" button?  There are several special functions there that
are not on the menus.  This IMHO would be a great place to add "Copy
Children Only" and "Cut Children Only" functions.  I use the heck out of the
"C" button -- great idea!

Again thanks to all that replied...
...ed







_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
2852

From: easy-123@e...
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 4:17am
Subject: Memory Expansion Cards---Does anyone know of a way...

 
To run Shadow Plan from a memory card and 
  1) be able to have the desktop password not be deleted when the 
handheld is hotsync, and
  2) be able to have the data on the handheld and desktop 
synchronized?

I realize that this is going to most require a secondary program such 
as "PowerRun", "myWorkbench", "piDirect VFS", etc. As I can't seem to 
figure out which of these is suppose to be able to these tasks (if 
any can), I am hoping for some insight.

Thanks for any assistance in advance

Stan
2853

From: e@ematthews.net
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 4:56am
Subject: Re: Memory Expansion Cards---Does anyone know of a way...

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., easy-123@e... wrote:
> To run Shadow Plan from a memory card and 
>   1) be able to have the desktop password not be deleted when the 
> handheld is hotsync, and
>   2) be able to have the data on the handheld and desktop 
> synchronized?
> 
> I realize that this is going to most require a secondary program 
such 
> as "PowerRun", "myWorkbench", "piDirect VFS", etc. As I can't seem 
to 
> figure out which of these is suppose to be able to these tasks (if 
> any can), I am hoping for some insight.
> 
> Thanks for any assistance in advance
> 
> Stan

There is a program in the MEMPLUG egroup that allows normal syncing 
from a expansion 
card.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/memplug/files/StubMaker.zip
2854

From: Leigh  <leigh@x...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 11:53am
Subject: Re: Memory Expansion Cards---Does anyone know of a way...

 
Stan,

I run Shadow on the MS of a Sony Clie 610C using PiDirectVFS.  All data is 
on the handheld and I've had no problem with it syncing to the 
desktop.  Last night I added a lot of text to some lesson plan notes, 
hotsynced, and I just checked and everything's there on the desktop.  It 
really works smoothly.  The only problem I've ever had with PiDirect is 
that I have to set it "Disable and Rescan" if I'm using a file manager 
(such as Filez) or I'll get a Fatal Alert.

I run most apps and unchanging data files from MS and keep edited data 
files on the handheld.

Leigh

At 04:17 AM 11/18/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>To run Shadow Plan from a memory card and
>   1) be able to have the desktop password not be deleted when the
>handheld is hotsync, and
>   2) be able to have the data on the handheld and desktop
>synchronized?
>
>I realize that this is going to most require a secondary program such
>as "PowerRun", "myWorkbench", "piDirect VFS", etc. As I can't seem to
>figure out which of these is suppose to be able to these tasks (if
>any can), I am hoping for some insight.
>
>Thanks for any assistance in advance
>
>Stan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2855

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 4:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: converting bonsai files to shadow

 
On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 ltan10@y... wrote:

> This is a sample test file that I made in Bonsai and exported to 
> memopad, preserving the numbers only
> 1.  ABC
>         1.  DEF
>             1.  Hij
>         2.  KLM
>             1.  NOP
>             2.  123
>         3.  QRS
>                 1.  TUV
>                           456
>         4.  WXYZ
> 2.  A1B2
> 3.  CDE
>         1.  123
> 4.  XYZ

	I would expect this to import fine; Shadow understands leading
tabs or spaces as indent/level hints. The numbers would become part of the
text, however, so you may wish to not include numbers and instead then
activate Shadow auto-numbering.

> This is the same file preserving, numbers, completion status, 
> category,etc.
> 
> Test file
> 
> Unfiled    (1)     1.  ABC
> Personal   (1)             1.  DEF
> Unfiled    (3)                 1.  Hij

	Interesting layout; okay, that'd become one level flat list in
Shadow and thus would be a lot of work to get back to its proper
structure. A bit rough to import.. I'd have to build a specific importer
for that.

	If you know how to use a text editor or word processor well, you
could do a quick run to put the text into Shadow XML very easily. (Also
depending on how the notes are attached, as you didn't illustrate that).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2856

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 4:25pm
Subject: RE: Cut / Copy Children

 
On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, David & Alicia Hart wrote:

> I am currently evaluating SP (might be buying soon, if...).  Some comments
> on this thread:
> 
> > Any interest in adding -
> >
> >    - Import by category  (Most wanted)
> >    - Delete behind function in the import function (would be nice)
> >    - Category / done filter in the "new from..." dialog (would be
> > helpfull)
> 
> 1st & 3rd items: ME TOO!!!! - If this will be a part of SP soon, I'm buying!

	If a couple people keep bugging me, it'll get done. I'm so busy
trying to keep up now that its easy to forget these sorts of
"cosmetics". Theres lots of broad-strokes I want to do, but somethign like
this could be added "quickly".

> This is exactly how I want to use SP also.  LB was too automatic for me, but
> I NEED the hierarchy.  I too have been experimenting with integrating SP
> with DB4 somehow.

	There is a lot of experience in using Shadow and ToDo/Datebook
programs here. Ask around or go through the list archives. Theres a
plethora of built-in user,s DB4 users, and Action Namers.

> I like the new buttons in the list views on v2.0!  (or did I miss them on
> 1.5.14...)

	If you mean the graphical button bar, its new in 2.0 :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2857

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:08pm
Subject: Follow up to Ed's rapid fire :P

 
Okay, my brane is full ;)

	So, is a "Cut all children" and "Copy all children" operation
needed?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2858

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:11pm
Subject: Re: Memory Expansion Cards---Does anyone know of a way...

 
On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 easy-123@e... wrote:

> To run Shadow Plan from a memory card and 
>   1) be able to have the desktop password not be deleted when the 
> handheld is hotsync, and

	Shadow shoudl be runnable from any memory card; I have always kept
it on a memory card in my visor. Other peopel can speak up for CF and
memory sticks and whatnot, but I think the desktop conduit can speak to
them anywhere as long as they are normally launchable. (ie: If some
special trickery is required to launch them, then the conduit will not be
able to function correctly)

>   2) be able to have the data on the handheld and desktop 
> synchronized?

	See (1). I sync all day long with Shadow on card 1 (built in
memory is card 0).

> I realize that this is going to most require a secondary program such 
> as "PowerRun", "myWorkbench", "piDirect VFS", etc. As I can't seem to 
> figure out which of these is suppose to be able to these tasks (if 
> any can), I am hoping for some insight.

	If you need a special program launcher thingy to access the card,
the conduit will not work. (The conduit needs to talk to Shadow on the
handheld, during the sync. The conduit cannot invoke other fancy
applications)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2859

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: Memory Expansion Cards---Does anyone know of a way...

 
On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 e@e... wrote:

> There is a program in the MEMPLUG egroup that allows normal syncing 
> from a expansion 
> card.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/memplug/files/StubMaker.zip

	Let me know how it goes!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2860

From: Kenneth S. Rhee  <polymath@m...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 11:54am
Subject: Re[2]: Memory Expansion Cards---Does anyone know of a way...

 
Hello Jeff,

Sunday, November 18, 2001, 4:11:19 PM, you wrote:

JM>   If you need a special program launcher thingy to access the card,
JM> the conduit will not work. (The conduit needs to talk to Shadow on the
JM> handheld, during the sync. The conduit cannot invoke other fancy
JM> applications)

I've been running Shadow and sync with desktop without any problem
using pidirect on my Clie.  You need to leave the Pidirect on during
hotsync, and that takes care of it.

-- 
Best regards,
 Kenneth                            mailto:polymath@m...
2861

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: RE: Cut / Copy Children

 
Why not do the initial data entry in Shadow? If you don't want to take the
time to put new items (ToDos) where they belong, you could have a list
called "In Box" where you collect everything all day, and then move it to
the correct list during your daily review. You could have a link in your
inbox that would take you back to DtBk, so moving back and forth is easy.
THe way I do things, is if I know that it is a stand alone appt (not part
of a project) I enter it right into dtbk, stand alone tasks go right into
ToDo+, andif there is any doubt, I put it in my "In box" list to file
later. I also use SwitchHack (love it) which makes it very easy to move
back and forth between apps. just a thought.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     RE: [shadow-discuss] Cut / Copy Children                     
                    11/18/2001                                                                                     
                    10:25 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Fri, 16 Nov 2001, David & Alicia Hart wrote:

> I am currently evaluating SP (might be buying soon, if...).  Some
comments
> on this thread:
>
> > Any interest in adding -
> >
> >    - Import by category  (Most wanted)
> >    - Delete behind function in the import function (would be nice)
> >    - Category / done filter in the "new from..." dialog (would be
> > helpfull)
>
> 1st & 3rd items: ME TOO!!!! - If this will be a part of SP soon, I'm
buying!

           If a couple people keep bugging me, it'll get done. I'm so busy
trying to keep up now that its easy to forget these sorts of
"cosmetics". Theres lots of broad-strokes I want to do, but somethign like
this could be added "quickly".

> This is exactly how I want to use SP also.  LB was too automatic for me,
but
> I NEED the hierarchy.  I too have been experimenting with integrating SP
> with DB4 somehow.

           There is a lot of experience in using Shadow and ToDo/Datebook
programs here. Ask around or go through the list archives. Theres a
plethora of built-in user,s DB4 users, and Action Namers.

> I like the new buttons in the list views on v2.0!  (or did I miss them on
> 1.5.14...)

           If you mean the graphical button bar, its new in 2.0 :)

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



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2862

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 3:54pm
Subject: New from...

 
Hi!

I'd like to link to the Datebook - it seems I can only link to un-timed events? I mostly set times for my appointments and would like to link to these even if they do have a time set. Are there any good reasons why this is not possible at the moment - seems the link to Datebook would be the same no matter if it is timed or not?

If I create the Datebook link from within Shadow, the link is still retained after I edit that appointment and time it. I just rather not schedule everything that way. Is there maybe an option switch I have missed? Since the current mode of operation might be preferable to people, a little "show un-timed/show all" toggle may well keep everyone happy. 


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
2863

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:07pm
Subject: Re: New from...

 
Tormod,

Since Shadow only keeps dates not time, I assume that the link would always
be untimed. I'm used to this and just follow the link to dtbk and enter the
time there. If your doing a "New From" it shows both timed and untimed
events, it just doesn't show the time.

Jeff, I guess I have to agree with Tormod, it would be great if we could
set Start and End times for events in the Link Manager rather than having
to go to dtbk to set it. How's that ToDo list looking lately?

Scott


                                                                                                                              
                    tormod.halvorsen@s...                                                                                  
                    bolaget.se                      To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                                                    cc:                                                                       
                    11/19/2001 09:54 AM             Subject:     [shadow-discuss] New from...                                 
                    Please respond to                                                                                         
                    shadow-discuss                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              




Hi!

I'd like to link to the Datebook - it seems I can only link to un-timed
events? I mostly set times for my appointments and would like to link to
these even if they do have a time set. Are there any good reasons why this
is not possible at the moment - seems the link to Datebook would be the
same no matter if it is timed or not?

If I create the Datebook link from within Shadow, the link is still
retained after I edit that appointment and time it. I just rather not
schedule everything that way. Is there maybe an option switch I have
missed? Since the current mode of operation might be preferable to people,
a little "show un-timed/show all" toggle may well keep everyone happy.


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/




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shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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2864

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: New from...

 
On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:

> I'd like to link to the Datebook - it seems I can only link to
> un-timed events? I mostly set times for my appointments and would like
> to link to these even if they do have a time set. Are there any good
> reasons why this is not possible at the moment - seems the link to
> Datebook would be the same no matter if it is timed or not?

	It isn't related to timing, but there is some nefarious bug in the
New From (and perhaps Link Manager). I suspect its something to do with
protected items, but not sure. ITs high up on my list of things to fix.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2865

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:34pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
I agree with Dave Keltie 110%!!!
I also use ToDo+ to do my filtering which works very well.  By being 
selective in what I link to ToDo+ in SP, this allows me to see only 
what to do's I have and leave the rest of my SP entries off my to do 
list.  The original question which started this thread can be simply 
realized by simply linking only those to do items those items 
(children) which are pending (ie due or soon due)but not linking the 
parent item until the necessary children have been completed.  I do 
this all the time and by regularly exporting to a memo (after changing 
the list to Note view :) ) I have a full record of all the tasks 
accomplished.(I need to keep a running history which with some fancy 
cut & paste from memo into thinkDB on my desktop, keeps me synched and 
linked!)

I also use the To do link checkbox to eliminate the to do from To Do+ 
- have to have a way to remove the to do from the list but not SP!

Jeff, please do not clutter up SP more than it needs to be.  Let other 
apps do what they do best and leave SP as a superb outliner/linking 
app.  

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "David Keltie" <dave@z...> wrote:
> I use ToDo+ pending Shadow being able to sort across lists. Adding
> functionalities like 'due' and 'radar' to filters in Shadow don't 
help
> me, unless the across lists feature is there.
>  
> Been thinking though that as ToDo+ does exist, why add bloat to 
Shadow?
> If Shadow tips users can develop useful methodologies for specific
> purposes - list-keeping, outlining, project planning, etc., then 
perhaps
> we could see Shadow as part of a 'suite' of programmes (dare I say
> 'office'?). I like to use apps where developers are open in their
> approach and co-operate with other developers to build functionality
> across software in response the needs of real users (cf MS who want 
to
> take over everything and build in all the functionality and bugs 
I'll
> (n)ever need). Shadow's huge selling point is it's links - let's use
> them, not try to replicate the functionality of other good 
programmes in
> Shadow (then Jeff can concentrate on e.g. developing
> linking/importing/exporting ability - in Desktop). Just a 
thought....
>  
> Also....Jeff's impact for me is not just the usefullness of the
> programme but his whole approach to product development and response 
to
> his customer base. I now resent Iambic - I like Action Names, with a 
few
> tweaks I'd like it a lot more but they just aren't interested in 
what
> their users think (I'm now watching to see how Standalone go with 
their
> new Dateman product).
>  
> Cheers
>  
>  
> Dave
>  
> PS Re 'support for 'international' characters. Why does 
'international'
> in software mean every country other than the US (or are they not
> international too?!!)
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2866

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 4:44pm
Subject: Re: Suggestion T of C view

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "David Keltie" <dave@z...> wrote:
> Been thinking about this too. I think I'd like to have Shadow open 
in my
> TOC in collapsed view. Then I could just choose 'Clients', 
'Projects',
> 'House', etc. and Zoom to see or jump to each's linked lists. 
Possible? 
>  
> Cheers
>  
>  
> Dave
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,

Hi, 

saw your post and thought I'd let you know I have done this (If I 
understand you correctly).  See my post to the tips forum.  Basically, 
I have category for 'clients' and one for 'files' because I have a 
handful of clients with many files (think projects) each.  I use the 
clients category to list each client and then under each client is a 
list of all of their files.  I put a file link to the particular file 
list in my files category.  I also put a file link in the first item 
in that list (which is the name of the file) back to the corresponding 
client in the clients category.  This way I can easily link back and 
forth.  I also then add address links to my client contact and other 
contacts for each file and memo links to other info in my memos that I 
need.
2867

From: Timothy Woerner  <TEWoerner@m...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 0:03am
Subject: Re: ShadowPlan Desktop won't sync

 
Working with Jeff, we discovered that FindIgnoreHack interfered with 
my synchronization.  No XP-issues were disclosed.

If you haven't worked with him, Jeff is very responsive to 
ShadowPlan issues.

Tim

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Timothy Woerner" <TEWoerner@m...> wrote:
> ShadowPlan Desktop still won't sync.  Synchronization stops and 
> Visor crashes as ShadowPlan sync begins.  
> 
> My "failed" lastsync.txt file was sent to support.
> 
> Using Visor Prism (running Palm OS v3.5.2H1.5), HotSyncManager 
> 3.1.2H, ShadowPlan 2.0.0 (registered), ShadowPlan Desktop 1.0 
> (registered), and Windows XP Home Edition.
> 
> Anyone else have a similar experience?
2868

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Mon Nov 19, 2001 10:21pm
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:34:18 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
>I have a full record of all the tasks
>accomplished.(I need to keep a running history which with some fancy
> cut & paste from memo into thinkDB on my desktop, keeps me synched
>and  linked!)

Tell us more!!

Brenda
2869

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 0:56am
Subject: Re: Withdraw Request - Cut / Copy Children

 
After looking further (and re-reading the manual), I found what I needed!

"Copy & Unchecked All Checked"

It's working better than what I originally had in mind with "Cut/Copy All
Children"

I'll go back to being quiet again <BG>

Thanks for the considering the request in the first place!

... (rapid fire) ed


_________________________________________________________
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2870

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:00am
Subject: Re: New from...

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> It isn't related to timing, but there is some nefarious bug in the
> New From (and perhaps Link Manager). 
> I suspect its something to do with
> protected items, but not sure. 
> ITs high up on my list of things to fix.

Aha! It's good to know you're on this, in the meantime I will have to 
use the workaround to create the apts I want linked inside Shadow.

FYI - the only two items I *do* get this week are two birhtdays, 
recurring yearly with no time or alarm set. Neither of them are 
marked "Private".


peace,
Tormod
2871

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:11pm
Subject: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
My policy is never to spam anyone with Shadow updates or
advertising or the like, and as such there has always been a
shadow-announce mailing list for people who wish to get update notices and
such.

	Over the last 2 weeks, I've had a number of people ask me why they
didn't receive a note about the desktop application, to which my answer
has been that they didn't join the -announce mailing list that was
mentioned in their registration and welcome letter.

	Should I do a one-time spam of say the last 4 months of
purchasers, so they're aware of Shadow Plan 2.0 and the Desktop?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2872

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:17pm
Subject: RE: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
Yes!!  This is one of my biggest pet peeves.  I'd rather get one email
message making sure I'm up to date than never get any news at all.
Especially since Shadow changes so much and so often-- aren't there
sometimes problems if people skip versions when they update? Not to mention
the fact that PalmGear's mailing lists don't work anymore, and I for one
used to rely on them to tell me about updated software. You'd be doing your
users a favor.

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]

	My policy is never to spam anyone with Shadow updates or
advertising or the like, and as such there has always been a
shadow-announce mailing list for people who wish to get update notices and
such.

	Over the last 2 weeks, I've had a number of people ask me why they
didn't receive a note about the desktop application, to which my answer
has been that they didn't join the -announce mailing list that was
mentioned in their registration and welcome letter.

	Should I do a one-time spam of say the last 4 months of
purchasers, so they're aware of Shadow Plan 2.0 and the Desktop?

		jeff
2873

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:23pm
Subject: Re: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	My policy is never to spam anyone with Shadow updates or
> advertising or the like, and as such there has always been a
> shadow-announce mailing list for people who wish to get update 
> notices and such.

Hmmm... I kinda asumed you would automatically put me on such a list 
after registering. I do not think notices of free updates to a 
program I use can be considered "spam" as such, it is a valuable 
service. Sure, MyPalmGear will list updated software with a little 
yellow gif but I would not mind getting a notice straight from the 
source.

Speaking for myself, I would *not* mind getting these notices. If you 
decide to go for the "one-time-spamming", you should also include 
info on where to find the announce-list. I'll go look for it straight 
away!

peace,
Tormod
2874

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 2:15pm
Subject: RE: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
Just this once.... ;)


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:12 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Opinion: Shadow spam?



	My policy is never to spam anyone with Shadow updates or
advertising or the like, and as such there has always been a
shadow-announce mailing list for people who wish to get update notices and
such.

	Over the last 2 weeks, I've had a number of people ask me why they
didn't receive a note about the desktop application, to which my answer
has been that they didn't join the -announce mailing list that was
mentioned in their registration and welcome letter.

	Should I do a one-time spam of say the last 4 months of
purchasers, so they're aware of Shadow Plan 2.0 and the Desktop?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

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2875

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 3:23pm
Subject: Re: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
Jeff -- your reputation as a programmer and support person is very 
well established. I think, then, that those of us who depend on 
Shadow would want to get notices of major updates. Incrimentals -- 
probably not, but major update notices with enough info to determine 
whether it is worth investigating.  I hate it when a notice comes 
out telling me nothing....

Bruced

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	My policy is never to spam anyone with Shadow updates or
> advertising or the like, and as such there has always been a
> shadow-announce mailing list for people who wish to get update 
notices and
> such.
> 
> 	Over the last 2 weeks, I've had a number of people ask me 
why they
> didn't receive a note about the desktop application, to which my 
answer
> has been that they didn't join the -announce mailing list that was
> mentioned in their registration and welcome letter.
> 
> 	Should I do a one-time spam of say the last 4 months of
> purchasers, so they're aware of Shadow Plan 2.0 and the Desktop?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2876

From: FunFactor@g...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 3:51pm
Subject: OS Compatibility & Desktop stand-alone

 
Hi,
I got two questions:
1) I haven't found something about compatibilty: what OS versions
does shadow work with (I'm about buying a new palm with OS4 - so I'm 
wondering)

2) Is there any possibility to use the desktop without the palm 
desktop installed. E.g. just work upon the xml files - a conversion
to pdb would be nice ;) I'd like to use it at work (if I have to plan 
something and I don't want to do it on the palm) and I don't want to 
install my privat things here.


Oh I forgot: I'd be great if one could switch from one field to the 
other using "tab".


Regards
  Stefan


P.S. Hope the international character support comes soon - most of my 
files have german Umlaute (äöü) and bullets in it. Btw only "ö"
and 
bullets seem to make problems.
2877

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 4:03pm
Subject: Re: OS Compatibility & Desktop stand-alone

 
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 FunFactor@g... wrote:

> 1) I haven't found something about compatibilty: what OS versions
> does shadow work with (I'm about buying a new palm with OS4 - so I'm 
> wondering)

	Shadow works on every modern Palm OS, and even the older ones for
the msot part. So on OS 3.0 or later (including 4.x) it works perfectly.
On OS2.x it works more or less. I'm not sure about the upcoming OS 5,
because its so far away and information is hard to obtain. I'm pretty sure
it will mostly work on OS 5.. but if it doesn't, be sure that I'll knock
out one that does work on OS5.

> 2) Is there any possibility to use the desktop without the palm
> desktop installed. E.g. just work upon the xml files - a conversion to
> pdb would be nice ;) I'd like to use it at work (if I have to plan
> something and I don't want to do it on the palm) and I don't want to
> install my privat things here.

	I'm working on a pdb reader/writer for it, so you can move your
pdbs around any way you like (especially useful for unix folks).

> Oh I forgot: I'd be great if one could switch from one field to the 
> other using "tab".

	Will come :)

> P.S. Hope the international character support comes soon - most of my 
> files have german Umlaute (äöü) and bullets in it. Btw only "ö"
> and 
> bullets seem to make problems.

	yeah, going to be fixing it soon hopefully.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2878

From: kate_mahoney@a...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 5:28pm
Subject: Re: TealNote/Desktop clash? Was: BugMe/picture linking

 
> > Well, um, actually, I just discovered that the list that I put 
> > a teal note in won't open on the desktop.  When I try I get:

 
> Send mthe XML file, or the part that has the tealnote. I'm curious
> what it looks like. If its a bunch of random garbage, that could be
> a problem :/
> 
> 		jeff


Did you ever get a chance to look into this?  (I believe I sent you 
both the XML file and the palm pdb.  Let me know if they didn't come 
through all right.)
2879

From: kate_mahoney@a...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 5:33pm
Subject: Re: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
> 	Should I do a one-time spam of say the last 4 months of
> purchasers, so they're aware of Shadow Plan 2.0 and the Desktop?

I'd say yes.  The desktop is pretty intergral to the basic product 
and the main program itself has gotten a lot spiffier, so it's not 
even like the "spam" you get from developers about other, unrelated 
products they make.  :)

Plus you could clearly state that people wanting to get announcements 
should of future updates need to put themselves on the mailing list 
(and say how).  I can't imagine any reasonable person being annoyed 
by that.

Kate
2880

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 5:36pm
Subject: Re: Re: TealNote/Desktop clash? Was: BugMe/picture linking

 
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 kate_mahoney@a... wrote:

> Did you ever get a chance to look into this?  (I believe I sent you 

	Nope. I've had zero free time. This Shadow stuff is killing me :)

> both the XML file and the palm pdb.  Let me know if they didn't come 
> through all right.)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2881

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
Jeff,

No matter what you do you with this one, you will have problems with some,
others will be pleased, and most will not have an opinion one way or
another.

IMHO - if you're INFORMING and not SELLING, I know who's sending, and there
is some sort of business relationship -- it's not SPAM.  While I would
rather have too much Information and delete what I don't need, I know that
those who do not share my view can be strongly opposed to ANY unsolicited
e-mail.

If you go out with a One Timer, it won't be long before the next generation
of Shadow-ites will be asking the same questions.  You also state clearly in
your registration letter about how to get update notices.  I would rather
answer many "Why didn't you tell me" inquiries with a quote from the
registration rather than handle any of the irate anti-spam - take me off
your list messages you're bound to receive.

Hope that helps...




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
2882

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
Definite on the one-time spam for former purchasers.  When I purchase, it actually pisses me off if i am not made aware of an update and have to search the net for each program to ensure i have the updates.  One delete is easy, but many will likely be happy you informed them.  Now, if it was from some company that i had never purchased a product from about their product or about a product from some other company that i had never shown any prior interest, different story...!
Kevin

Kevin S. Giberson, Civil Litigation Attorney
Bachan, Skillicorn & Marinovich
18 Alexander Street
Watsonville, CA  95076
(Santa Cruz and Monterey counties)
(831) 722-3861
Fax:  (831) 722-0347
Cellular with voice mailbox:  (831) 419-7551
kevin@g...

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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kate_mahoney@a... 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:33 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Opinion: Shadow spam?


  >       Should I do a one-time spam of say the last 4 months of
  > purchasers, so they're aware of Shadow Plan 2.0 and the Desktop?

  I'd say yes.  The desktop is pretty intergral to the basic product 
  and the main program itself has gotten a lot spiffier, so it's not 
  even like the "spam" you get from developers about other, unrelated 
  products they make.  :)

  Plus you could clearly state that people wanting to get announcements 
  should of future updates need to put themselves on the mailing list 
  (and say how).  I can't imagine any reasonable person being annoyed 
  by that.

  Kate



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2883

From: simonr@e...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:34pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
Yes, that would be wondeful!

Simon
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> Can we take it one step farter and combine that with a
> show only incomplete items so we would only see
> step 3 in your example?
> 
> Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 simonr@e... wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm just starting to use Shadow and I'd like to know if 
something is 
> > > possible:
> > > 
> > > - If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' 
must 
> > > be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded 
by 'choose 
> > > colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that 
are 
> > > preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the 
immediate 
> > > priorities in the forest of actions!
> > 
> > 	OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
> > shadow-discuss :)
> > 
> > 	Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
> > have preceeding items checked. So if you had:
> > 
> > X	step 1 (checked)
> > X	step 2 (checked)
> > _	step 3
> > _	step 4
> > 
> > 	Then you activate the filter, it'd show:
> > 
> > X	step 1
> > X	step 2
> > _	step 3
> > 
> > 	(step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> >
2884

From: simonr@e...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:34pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
Yes, that would be wondeful!

Simon
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> Can we take it one step farter and combine that with a
> show only incomplete items so we would only see
> step 3 in your example?
> 
> Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 simonr@e... wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm just starting to use Shadow and I'd like to know if 
something is 
> > > possible:
> > > 
> > > - If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' 
must 
> > > be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded 
by 'choose 
> > > colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that 
are 
> > > preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the 
immediate 
> > > priorities in the forest of actions!
> > 
> > 	OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
> > shadow-discuss :)
> > 
> > 	Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
> > have preceeding items checked. So if you had:
> > 
> > X	step 1 (checked)
> > X	step 2 (checked)
> > _	step 3
> > _	step 4
> > 
> > 	Then you activate the filter, it'd show:
> > 
> > X	step 1
> > X	step 2
> > _	step 3
> > 
> > 	(step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> >
2885

From: Nancy Barnet  <nbarnet@w...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 6:55pm
Subject: RE: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
Count me as one of the registerees who neglected to join the
shadow-announce list. I don't consider software update info "spam"  --
I consider it a courtesy (others may feel differently). Send away,
Jeff! I'll go join the -announce list too, just to be safe (and
informed).

Nancy
2886

From: kwurst@s...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 7:49pm
Subject: Beginner Questions

 
I am a member of the Datebk4 and GTD forums.  Shadow Plan is 
frequently referenced in these forums.  I have been reluctant to 
download and try Shadow Plan because I already own Brainforest (which 
cost me almost $40 when I purchased it) and I spend 75% of my time 
entering data to my Palm via the desktop applications.  Brainforest 
seems so limited compared to what I have read about Shadow Plan and 
now that Shadow Plan has a desktop conduit I decided to download it 
today to evaluate.  I have a few questions that might make my startup 
a little smoother.

1. The manual gives an example on how to import Brainforest outlines 
to ShadowPlan.  It seems very simple and straight forward.  Is there 
anything else I should be aware of before I do this?  I have about 20-
25 outlines I would like to import. Some of my Brainforest outlines 
contain notes that are over 4k.  How will ShadowPlan handle them?  
Will 4k always be the limit for notes in ShadowPlan?

2. I use Datebk 4.1 to schedule repeat ToDo's.  I can mark them 
complete on the Palm Desktop ToDo list and the repeat will be reset 
after synchronization.  I would like to use ShadowPlan for my many 
multiple level projects and have them linked to the todos so I can 
work with them on the Palm Desktop or in Datebk4.  Is this possible?  
Will a new todo added on the Palm Desktop show up in ShadowPlan on 
the Palm if todos are linked?  Will a todo added to Datebk4 show up 
in ShadowPlan?  Is there a way to work with todos in ShadowPlan 
Desktop?  If so, is there a way to make them show up in the Palm / 
Datebk4 todo list?


3.In general, I would like to be able to use ShadowPlan to replace 
Brainforest and also use it for my todos, however I still want to be 
able to work with todos on the Palm Desktop or in Datebk4.


Any help, tips, or recommendations will be appreciated.

Thanks, 

Karl
2887

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 8:50pm
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Brenda <brenda@b...> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:34:18 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
> >I have a full record of all the tasks
> >accomplished.(I need to keep a running history which with some 
fancy
> > cut & paste from memo into thinkDB on my desktop, keeps me synched
> >and  linked!)
> 
> Tell us more!!
> 
> Brenda

My firm has a customized Access database on our server with a 
'history' like file of events on each particular case.  We use thinkDB 
to bring the access database onto my palm.  For complicated 
reasons,(which I don't pretend to understand) relating to the 
customized nature of the server access database and how it relates to 
thinkDB, I can only view the history file, not modify it on my palm.  
I have found, however, that I am using SP to create my history of 
events, without the need to key it in.  I switch a list's view to 
note.  Then I export to memo.  Then after synch to my desktop, I cut 
and paste the new events into the server's access database.  It 
automatically synchs with thinkDb, which is back on my palm.  this 
allows me to see a large amount of info in my thinkDb database, use Sp 
for outlining,linking todo's, calendar events, etc. and know exactly 
what is happening and needs to happen in every case, wherever I am.  
Critical when you juggle a large number of cases (or projects)!  I 
know this may not be particularly useful, but may give ideas to others 
about how to use various programs together.  
P.S. Jeff, export to a database, like thinkDB???
2888

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 10:00pm
Subject: Re: Opinion: Shadow spam?

 
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:11:54 -0500 (EST), Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>
>    Should I do a one-time spam of say the last 4 months of
>purchasers, so they're aware of Shadow Plan 2.0 and the Desktop?
>

I personally don't consider this to be spam.

Of course there will be people upset if you: don't notify them, if you do notify them and they think it is spam etc.

What I would do is basically the original message you sent... except I would -NOT- use the word spam.

I would go ahead and send the message out.. but I would say what you do here... for example, "There is a mailing list for announcements but some people were not aware of that and did not get news on the update." etc... 

Make sure the main focus of the email is for them to get on the announce list.. then how can they be mad at you that it is "spam" because you are telling them how people missed important info, and how to get on the appropriate list.

-or-

Don't send out an update.. and tell the people that ask how to get on the announcement list.

-or-

Put out a press release to PalmGear, Handago etc about the update.

Brenda
2889

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Tue Nov 20, 2001 11:23pm
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:50:54 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
>I have found, however, that I am using SP to create my history of  
>events, without the need to key it in.  I switch a list's view to  
>note.  Then I export to memo.  Then after synch to my desktop, I cut
> and paste the new events into the server's access database.  It  
>automatically synchs with thinkDb, which is back on my palm.  this  
>allows me to see a large amount of info in my thinkDb database, use
>Sp  for outlining,linking todo's, calendar events, etc. and know
>exactly  what is happening and needs to happen in every case,
>wherever I am.

Thanks for the further info.

What type of fields are involved... for example are you just using a memo field on thinkDB?

 Critical when you juggle a large number of cases
>(or projects)!  I  know this may not be particularly useful, but may
>give ideas to others  about how to use various programs together.  

It's useful... I don't know enough about your system though to understand how it is working together... but the above helps.

>P.S. Jeff, export to a database, like thinkDB???

YES!!!

Brenda
2890

From: Todd Henion  <henion@t...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 0:43am
Subject: Lite

 
on 11/07/01 01:52, shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> 
>> Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
>> worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
>> would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
>> plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
>> something someone wants that is in the other version.
> 
> I may have to release a one-time cheap version. If so, I may make
> a lite version, since theres no way someone gets the full shbang if
> they're only paying a couple bucks :P Such a release would not be released
> online, as its not the way I wish to do business.
> 
> jeff

I must agree with the nay-sayers. Lites are a mess. CESD is constantly
getting demands that the DateBK3 users want the functionality of DateBK4,
but no bigger and much cheaper. He's managed it but first was 3 than 4. I
can see the latest 2.0 becoming Shadow. and a bug-free 1.6 staying as lite
for a few bucks cheaper. Your stuff is worth the money.

I really want you to focus on the Macintosh desktop, and keeping Shadow the
coolest. Lite is a trap.
As always, 
Todd
2891

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 0:57pm
Subject: RE: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter pr oposal

 
Michael and Brenda were discussing:

		>>P.S. Jeff, export to a database, like thinkDB???

		>YES!!!

Hmmm... do we really need bug Jeff with this? He has already built the desktop file-format on XML as far as I know and the databases should be able to import that - real soon, anyway...  

Generic formats are neat - demand XML imports in your other apps instead!


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
2892

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 3:56pm
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
Brenda,

Our computer guru set up the thinkDb - Access synch.  I'm told think 
Db works well with access and is easy to configure.  We use a number 
of fields - long, text, memo and date fields.  I'm told that if you 
know how to design fields in access, using thinkDB is fairly 
straightforward.  Further, thinkDB can be set to allow either: desktop 
overwrite handheld, handheld overwrites desktop, or bi-directional.  
As indicated we have desk -> handhels because of concerns that the 
access database on the server could have problems if I could overwrite 
it. We have a number of users constantly updating the access database. 
  Otherwise it should work fine.  If you can edit in thinkDB on your 
handheld, you should be able to cut and paste into it from SP on your 
palm.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Brenda <brenda@b...> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:50:54 -0000, michael.walter@r... wrote:
> >I have found, however, that I am using SP to create my history of  
> >events, without the need to key it in.  I switch a list's view to  
> >note.  Then I export to memo.  Then after synch to my desktop, I 
cut
> > and paste the new events into the server's access database.  It  
> >automatically synchs with thinkDb, which is back on my palm.  this 
 
> >allows me to see a large amount of info in my thinkDb database, use
> >Sp  for outlining,linking todo's, calendar events, etc. and know
> >exactly  what is happening and needs to happen in every case,
> >wherever I am.
> 
> Thanks for the further info.
> 
> What type of fields are involved... for example are you just using a 
memo field on thinkDB?
> 
>  Critical when you juggle a large number of cases
> >(or projects)!  I  know this may not be particularly useful, but 
may
> >give ideas to others  about how to use various programs together.  
> 
> It's useful... I don't know enough about your system though to 
understand how it is working together... but the above helps.
> 
> >P.S. Jeff, export to a database, like thinkDB???
> 
> YES!!!
> 
> Brenda
2893

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 4:05pm
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter pr oposal

 
Tormod,

Sorry, you missed my point. I meant a way to export on the handheld to 
a database app - like thinkDB - not to later to play with it on the 
desktop.  BTW, since I upgraded SP from v. 1.5.14 to 2.0, I have not 
noticed any xml files going onto my desktop.  I am not using the SP 
desktop as I find I do most of my editing on my palm. Am I missing 
something or did the xml files disappear?  Do I need to use SP desktop 
to get those xml files?

Oh, Jeff, wasn't trying to bug you further, I hear your todo list iss 
too long anyway.  Just a thought.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:
> 		Michael and Brenda were discussing:
> 
> 		>>P.S. Jeff, export to a database, like thinkDB???
> 
> 		>YES!!!
> 
> Hmmm... do we really need bug Jeff with this? He has already built 
the desktop file-format on XML as far as I know and the databases 
should be able to import that - real soon, anyway...  
> 
> Generic formats are neat - demand XML imports in your other apps 
instead!
> 
> 
> peace,
> Tormod in Stockholm
> http://www.airwhale.com/
2894

From: aschell2000@h...
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 4:24pm
Subject: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter pr oposal

 
> desktop.  BTW, since I upgraded SP from v. 1.5.14 to 2.0, I have 
not 
> noticed any xml files going onto my desktop.  I am not using the SP 
> desktop as I find I do most of my editing on my palm. Am I missing 
> something or did the xml files disappear?  Do I need to use SP 
desktop 
> to get those xml files?

You have to turn on a sync pref on your palm lists.  I think it's off 
by default.  As well, the folder on the desktop changed. Look in your 
palm user folder for a folder called Shadowplan160.  Your xml files 
should be in there.
2895

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 7:01pm
Subject: Re: Beginner Questions

 
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 kwurst@s... wrote:

> 1. The manual gives an example on how to import Brainforest outlines
> to ShadowPlan.  It seems very simple and straight forward.  Is there
> anything else I should be aware of before I do this?  I have about 20-

	Any experiences from BF users?

	Export/import is always a bit rough, since most programs don't
export well (and some export *ver* badly, like Hinote which can't even
import its own exports since they're not ... useful). You should be able
to get your text over to shadow without too much work, but getting dates
and stuff will be nasty.

> 25 outlines I would like to import. Some of my Brainforest outlines
> contain notes that are over 4k.  How will ShadowPlan handle them?  
> Will 4k always be the limit for notes in ShadowPlan?

	Shadow currently doesn't handle notes >4k (for efficiency
sake; Shadow optimizes to keep your runtime fast. So whil ea list is open,
Shadow runs fast, all of the time. But long notes mess up the caching and
optimizing, so they're not yet supported).

	Will it always be this way? No. When will it change? Can't
say.. haven't worried about it much since I get very few requests along
these lines. As units become more powerful and have more memory, I can see
myself relaxing the limit.

> 2. I use Datebk 4.1 to schedule repeat ToDo's.  I can mark them
> complete on the Palm Desktop ToDo list and the repeat will be reset
> after synchronization.  I would like to use ShadowPlan for my many
> multiple level projects and have them linked to the todos so I can
> work with them on the Palm Desktop or in Datebk4.  Is this possible?  

	Sure, of course; Shadow can link an item with todo and synchronize
it. Thus you can work with Shadow linked items in Palm Desktop.

> Will a new todo added on the Palm Desktop show up in ShadowPlan on the
> Palm if todos are linked?  Will a todo added to Datebk4 show up in

	Link is on an item by item basis; if you create it on the desktop,
you'll have to "New From" it into Shadow (for now anyway). The problem is
that you can have hundreds of Shadow files, and onyl a few todo
categories. So how will Shadow knokw which file to bring new todos into?
(Or which *files*). Since this is rough and each person wants auto import
differently, I've left it for later exploration :)

> ShadowPlan?  Is there a way to work with todos in ShadowPlan Desktop?  

	Not yet; the desktop is still very young. It will eventually have
all the linking abilities of the handheld app.

> If so, is there a way to make them show up in the Palm / Datebk4 todo
> list?

	Any item linked to a todo will be available to todo apps (like
DateBk4).

> 3.In general, I would like to be able to use ShadowPlan to replace
> Brainforest and also use it for my todos, however I still want to be
> able to work with todos on the Palm Desktop or in Datebk4.

	No problem; we all do this every day :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2896

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 7:37pm
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 michael.walter@r... wrote:

> P.S. Jeff, export to a database, like thinkDB???

	*gulp*

	Only if they provide an API and I have lots of free time to kill
:P (ie: Not likely ;) (how many people would want to dump data into a
database and specifically, ThinkDB or HandDBase, etc. And how woudl you do
that.. ask whjich field to dump it into, since databases are
multifield? ugh!)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2897

From: Robert Bleimeyer  <rrbleimeyer@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Lite

 
I agree with Todd. Lite is never satisfying.

You know, with all the power that Shadow has, you
would probably the only one on the market with a tool
like this that had both a Windows and Mac desktop.
That fact alone would overshadow (pardon me .... ;>)
any benefit from having a lite version.

Robert Bleimeyer

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
2898

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:13pm
Subject: Re: thinkdb and shadow was Re: Re: new filter pr oposal

 
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 michael.walter@r... wrote:

> Sorry, you missed my point. I meant a way to export on the handheld to 
> a database app - like thinkDB - not to later to play with it on the 
> desktop.  BTW, since I upgraded SP from v. 1.5.14 to 2.0, I have not 
> noticed any xml files going onto my desktop.  I am not using the SP 
> desktop as I find I do most of my editing on my palm. Am I missing 
> something or did the xml files disappear?  Do I need to use SP desktop 
> to get those xml files?

	The old backup conduit is outdated, though the 1.5.14 ought to
work with 2.0. FOr 2.0 and on, to get the XML files you need to have the
desktop registered, and have the sync pref turned on for a given pref. I
may try and keep up the old XML conduit, so peopel can get it when needed,
but it could be rough to keep two conduits working :/

> Oh, Jeff, wasn't trying to bug you further, I hear your todo list iss 
> too long anyway.  Just a thought.

	heh. 400+ plus :)

		jeff

> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:
> > 		Michael and Brenda were discussing:
> > 
> > 		>>P.S. Jeff, export to a database, like thinkDB???
> > 
> > 		>YES!!!
> > 
> > Hmmm... do we really need bug Jeff with this? He has already built 
> the desktop file-format on XML as far as I know and the databases 
> should be able to import that - real soon, anyway...  
> > 
> > Generic formats are neat - demand XML imports in your other apps 
> instead!
> > 
> > 
> > peace,
> > Tormod in Stockholm
> > http://www.airwhale.com/
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2899

From: opheim@d...
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:17pm
Subject: Help..."Bad Load: The list could not be loaded!"

 
File created on Visor, edited on desktop (quite a bit), saved and 
resynched. Got the message "Bad Load: The list could not be loaded!" 
when trying to open it on the Visor. Deleted Visor file, saved 
desktop file again, synched again, but still get the same message.

Help, please!

Warren
2900

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:31pm
Subject: Re: Help..."Bad Load: The list could not be loaded!"

 
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 opheim@d... wrote:

> File created on Visor, edited on desktop (quite a bit), saved and 
> resynched. Got the message "Bad Load: The list could not be loaded!" 
> when trying to open it on the Visor. Deleted Visor file, saved 
> desktop file again, synched again, but still get the same message.

	Hmm. Try this,

	rename or delete the file on the handheld
	Ask the desktop to upload the file from the desktop
	Sync

	If you get the problem again, send me the lastsync.txt file.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
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