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2701

From: kate_mahoney@a...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 8:10pm
Subject: TealNote/Desktop clash? Was: BugMe/picture linking

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Mason Curry <mcurry@h...> wrote:
> Try TealNote.  You can put a picture directly into any app. 
> including shadow.  I just tried it and it works.
> 
> It also saves Jeff from having to do anything.

Well, um, actually, I just discovered that the list that I put a teal 
note in won't open on the desktop.  When I try I get:

Error!
Could not open file!  Perhaps found not yet supported international 
characters? (Maybe not well-formed at line 24)

It also doesn't show teal notes right when you expand the memo in the 
main view.  So it has some drawbacks...
2702

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 8:30pm
Subject: Re: How to demote a bunch of items?

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Randy Fay wrote:

> One thing I often do is decide I need deeper nesting of my outline.
> Suddenly I have to demote a bunch of items below a new one.
> 
> How can I do this in one shot instead of moving each one individually? 
> There seems to be no multiple-select facility on the PalmOS...

	The OS doesn't directly support multiple select, so each program
implements it itself if so desired. I may build a multi select
option.. hard to say. For now you can just cursor aroudn and use the arrow
keys or buttons to push items around and such. If I'm doing a pile, I
usually just cut/cut/cut/move.. (using clip in multiclip mode)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2703

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 8:53pm
Subject: Re: TealNote/Desktop clash? Was: BugMe/picture linking

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 kate_mahoney@a... wrote:

> Well, um, actually, I just discovered that the list that I put a teal 
> note in won't open on the desktop.  When I try I get:

	Send mthe XML file, or the part that has the tealnote. I'm curious
what it looks like. If its a bunch of random garbage, that could be a
problem :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2704

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 0:28am
Subject: Re: Link Problems with LinkAdd--Slow to Freezing

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	The find speed is good for addresses?
> 
> 		jeff

The short answer is yes.  The long answer is that the problem when 
away sometime during the day as I used my PIII.  The items of note 
during the day were: one fatal exception upon entering a shortcut 
Graffiti stroke, turning all hacks but X-master and MagicText 
temporarily (to use MultiClip to capture a help screen) and noticing 
a conflict between to applications using the same activation stoke. 
These were apparently not the problem as the symptoms do not change 
if they deactivated. (Unless that left the internal workings tied up 
in knots)

I could get to the second app by leaving the first active and 
invoking the same stroke again.  If the first app was closed, it 
would activate as soon as the shortcut stroke was entered.

For now I have left well enough alone.  I will keep an eye on things 
and backup often in the mean time.

Peter R.
"All Accounting is creative."
2705

From: michael.walter@r...
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 0:30am
Subject: Re: cross-file filtering

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 Tarasofsky@t... wrote:
> 
> > I am not a regular reader of the messages on this list, so 
apologies
> > in advance if this has ever come up before.  I am very happy with 
the
> > program, and am trying to use it more and more to replace my ToDo
> > list.  However, what would make me even more happy would be if 
there
> > was a way to do a filter on all shadow files at once, so that e.g. 
I
> 
> 	There is not yet a way to do a multi-file query. I may add
> something, and/or may add somethign to the desktop application. It 
comes
> up once in awhile and we work out various ideas. I may make a side 
tool
> that rips through Shadow files and generates a new Shadow file with 
items
> matching your query request. I may do this after I build item to 
item
> linking, so that the tool could generate a new list with links back 
to the
> original item. This woudl be very powerful for auto todo-list 
generation.
> 
> > could see all the items in a single list that are due this week.  
> 
> 	Many people use Shadow for all their data entry and recording. 
But
> as events become very timely (due in a few days), they can link them 
to
> the todo list or datebook (via the Link Manager in Shadow), and then 
use
> the ToDo list as a flat cross-list view. ITs pretty handy until such 
time
> as Shadow can handle the multi-file queries.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


Jeff, 

I have this same problem as I have about 65 different files right now. 
I solve the filtering problem by having links to ToDo Plus (most to a 
single category) and use the filtering tools of ToDo Plus which work 
very well.  IMHO you do not want to build added complexity if there 
asre other solutions and linking to TODo works very well.  The added 
bonus is that by selectively linking, you can filter out those items 
in SP that you do not want to create as a to do.  Saves time in my 
view than trying to set the filters.
2706

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 1:08am
Subject: Clipping Multiiple items; Keyboard Fuctions with any Keyboard

 
> 
> 	The OS doesn't directly support multiple select, so each 
program
> implements it itself if so desired. 

MagicText's ($20) ClipBoard Stack (free plug-in) will hold 16 items, 
the 17th pushes the first item out of the stack.

LapTopHack ($14) also expands the size of the clipboard from 1k up to 
32k.

=====
>On the subject of the MiniEdior - is there a keyboard shortcut to 
>close the
>window and enter the item? I'm thinking Ctrl-Enter could be a good 
>one, perhaps? 
>
>I do have a workaround involving the 1.6 version of the PPK-driver, 
but this obviously only works for this device. 

LapTopHack ($14) allows your to activate any screen item using any 
keyboard via key combinations. LapTopHack gives PointerHack ("virtual 
mouse") functionality to any keyboard.
2707

From: adekoninck@y...
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 1:09am
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Count me in.
2708

From: Stewart Midwinter  <midtoad@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 0:40am
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
My vote is for a new group, say "Shadow-Tips".

I find myself having to weed through 25messages or more a day on this list
looking for tips.  Most of the messages are about bugs, or discussion of the
pros and cons of some proposed new feature.  Frankly, I don't have the time
to wade through these.  I don't care about potential features; what I care
about is maximising my use of the current program.   If and when new
features arise, I'll be happy to learn how to use them at that time.

So, yes, let's split this list into two, one for development, and one for
usage.

thanks,
Stewart.
2709

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 3:03am
Subject: Shadow Tips Forum not open!

 
I have created the mailing list and web forum on yahoogroups. Feel
free to join up and start posting. Remember, this forum is for keen ideas
and discussing usage patterns, ways to be more efficient, or do cool
things on your palm with Shadow. It is not for discussing features or bugs
or pets.. just the good stuff. For power users or non-power-users who want
to become power users.

	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss

	I'll be adding a link to it on the codejedi site immediately.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2710

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 3:08am
Subject: Errr, correction :)

 
Shadow Tips Forum *NOW* open. These long days must be catching up
;)

	Again, Shadow Tips is a forum for keeners to discuss keen ideas,
and for us non-keeners to become keeners. Side chatter and inappropriate
comments will be removed by moderators to keep this forum lean and to the
point.

	Shadow-discuss will remain as a general purpose forum for
features, ideas, chit chat, whatever. 

	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-tips

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2711

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 3:12am
Subject: Chat?

 
I've never used a yahoogroups Chat before. I do live in various
IRC servers (though not ICQ or AOL Instant Messenger or the like). Would a
question and answer chat period be useful to anyone, or fun? (No taking
cheap shots. With the volume of email I get, I'm already wimpering in a
dark corner on a nightly basis ;)

	If a resounding yes, I can try and find a useful chat server and
set a time where you guys can bug me for an hour.

	If its far too nerdy or not a good idea, we cna let it drop. It
just occurred to me.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2712

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 3:34am
Subject: Re: Chat?

 
i have used the yahoo chat feature for weekly iopug meetings. works like
irc but limits access to members of the list. could be an intersting idea
at some point
ian

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:12:53 -0500 (EST)
> From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Chat?
> 
> 
> 	I've never used a yahoogroups Chat before. I do live in various
> IRC servers (though not ICQ or AOL Instant Messenger or the like). Would a
> question and answer chat period be useful to anyone, or fun? (No taking
> cheap shots. With the volume of email I get, I'm already wimpering in a
> dark corner on a nightly basis ;)
> 
> 	If a resounding yes, I can try and find a useful chat server and
> set a time where you guys can bug me for an hour.
> 
> 	If its far too nerdy or not a good idea, we cna let it drop. It
> just occurred to me.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>
2713

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 3:18am
Subject: [shadow-tips] first post first post (fwd)

 
Maybe I'm taking it too far, but in the spirit of Shadow Tips,
this first posting is being removed ;) Ian -- be proud, and I hope you
don't mind.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 03:14:27 -0000
From: isacklow@d...
Reply-To: shadow-tips@yahoogroups.com
To: shadow-tips@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-tips] first post first post

woo hoo :)

great idea for this forum jeff. keep up the great work on the program
ian


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-tips-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2714

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 3:39am
Subject: Re: [shadow-tips] first post first post (fwd)

 
no problem, couldn't resist :)
was wondering if i was loosing it when i did a refresh and saw it wasn't
there anymore.
ian

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:18:17 -0500 (EST)
> From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] [shadow-tips] first post first post (fwd)
> 
> 
> 	Maybe I'm taking it too far, but in the spirit of Shadow Tips,
> this first posting is being removed ;) Ian -- be proud, and I hope you
> don't mind.
> 
> 		Jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 03:14:27 -0000
> From: isacklow@d...
> Reply-To: shadow-tips@yahoogroups.com
> To: shadow-tips@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-tips] first post first post
> 
> woo hoo :)
> 
> great idea for this forum jeff. keep up the great work on the program
> ian
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-tips-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>
2715

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 2:49pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Tips Forum not open!

 
Jeff,

ROTFL! Sorry to have fun at your expense, but this made my morning. Get
some sleep this weekend will ya!!!

Scott
2716

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Fri Nov 9, 2001 3:41pm
Subject: RE: Chat?

 
I think that would be super-- Yahoo Chat works really well too- no extra set
up involved if you're already on the list & have a Yahoo ID.


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 9:13 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Chat?



	I've never used a yahoogroups Chat before. I do live in various
IRC servers (though not ICQ or AOL Instant Messenger or the like). Would a
question and answer chat period be useful to anyone, or fun? (No taking
cheap shots. With the volume of email I get, I'm already wimpering in a
dark corner on a nightly basis ;)

	If a resounding yes, I can try and find a useful chat server and
set a time where you guys can bug me for an hour.

	If its far too nerdy or not a good idea, we cna let it drop. It
just occurred to me.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2717

From: richardabarnes@c...
Date: Sat Nov 10, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: Persistant List

 
I just started using the new desk top and I must have done something 
really wrong.  I have a file that I was practicing with on both 
systems. I deleted it on the desk top but now I cannot open or delete 
it on my hand held.
  
When I try to open the file I get a message box that says bad load  
The list could not be loaded.  There is nothing additional in the 
information box either.

When I try to delete the list either from the menu or the trash can 
the program goes through the two normal message boxes but the list 
remains. AND when I close Shadow there is a fatal error message 
waiting for me (MemoryMgrNew.c Line:4257, invalid chunk ptr)  This 
requires a hard reset.

If I need to, I think I can remember all the steps that led up to 
this (and there were many).  But, if there is a simple fix it would 
be nice to avoid the memories.  

Either way the original program has been a welcome addition to my 
work and I am really excited about incorporating the desk top.

Hope this is simple.
2718

From: jrs47@o...
Date: Sat Nov 10, 2001 5:02pm
Subject: Importing from Brainforest

 
I've got several large outlines in Brainforest where I store documents
as notes.  Naturally I'd like to import to Brainforest without
retyping them.  In the absence of cut and paste on the desktop, has
anyone worked out a way to import Brainforest outlines?

TIA,
Janice
2719

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 10, 2001 5:55pm
Subject: Re: Persistant List

 
On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 richardabarnes@c... wrote:

> When I try to delete the list either from the menu or the trash can 
> the program goes through the two normal message boxes but the list 
> remains. AND when I close Shadow there is a fatal error message 
> waiting for me (MemoryMgrNew.c Line:4257, invalid chunk ptr)  This 
> requires a hard reset.

	Delte it like this:

	Trash, Yes, No.

	If it doesn't go away, do it a couple more times. It'll go
away. Sometimes the OS doesn't like to let it go for a second.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2720

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 10, 2001 6:18pm
Subject: Re: Importing from Brainforest

 
On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 jrs47@o... wrote:

> I've got several large outlines in Brainforest where I store documents
> as notes.  Naturally I'd like to import to Brainforest without
> retyping them.  In the absence of cut and paste on the desktop, has
> anyone worked out a way to import Brainforest outlines?

	Typically, you can export as memo from BF on the handheld, and
import from memo into Shadow on the handheld. This will maintain your
text, though is less elegant with dates.

	If BF's desktop can export text, then you can pretty easily use a
repeating little macro in any wordpro to format the text as a Shadow file
for loading into the handheld (until I add an import system to the
desktop).

	For example, just the other day I took inventory of my CD
collection. I've always kept a simple ASCII textfile listing..

Band1
Band2
Band3

	To bring it into Shadow I just made a macro (in like 10
seconds) that changed it to the following:

<item>
  <title>Band1</title>
</item>

	Then put <ShadowPlanFile> and the top and </ShadowPlanFile> at the
bottom. Then you can have the desktop application send it up to the
handheld and you're done. This will allow you to set notes, checkboxes,
and such, pretty easily. But you'll have to play with a wordpro and macros
to make it easy.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2721

From: Timothy Woerner  <TEWoerner@m...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 3:44pm
Subject: ShadowPlan Desktop won't sync

 
ShadowPlan Desktop still won't sync.  Synchronization stops and 
Visor crashes as ShadowPlan sync begins.  

My "failed" lastsync.txt file was sent to support.

Using Visor Prism (running Palm OS v3.5.2H1.5), HotSyncManager 
3.1.2H, ShadowPlan 2.0.0 (registered), ShadowPlan Desktop 1.0 
(registered), and Windows XP Home Edition.

Anyone else have a similar experience?
2722

From: Jacques Turbé  <jacques@t...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:07pm
Subject: Re: [shadow-tips] Why only one post (#2) ?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Maybe I'm taking it too far, but in the spirit of Shadow Tips,
> this first posting is being removed ;) Ian -- be proud, and I hope 
you
> don't mind.
> 

What happens ?

I posted friday on Shadow-tips a (long) tip. It got #2. It still 
there, alone on the list, for three days now : no more tip-posts ??
Nobody here is any more talking about Shadow-tips ? Jeff ?

What happens ?

Cheers,

Puzzled Jacques
2723

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: [shadow-tips] Why only one post (#2) ?

 
OK, I Just bought Shadow a couple days ago -- Played with it a year or so
ago, but started using Project -- Came back a week ago for a second look
because of all the talk about the linking abilities.  I was truly impressed
with the progress over the last year!

Anyway my tip for Shadow users also using DateBK4 --

At the moment Shadow does not support Address Book linking.  One of the
first projects I'm putting in needs links to the address book.  (would this
be considered the missing link?)

I use the name of the person as a Shadow item, and put in a DateBK4 link.
For the date I Picked Jan 1 2031 -- that's where the date picker stops if
you tap and hold the right arrow on the year then Jan 1 is two taps away.  I
then followed the link into DateBK4 and using that program created a link to
the address book.

Now I am only 2 taps away from the phone number and the attached note!  Then
when the day comes that Shadow supports  direct links to address book, I
have all my indirect links in one place for cleaning up.




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
2724

From: Yaakov Shlafman  <shlaf@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 6:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: [shadow-tips] Why only one post (#2) ?

 
--- Ed Barlett <f_faste@y...> wrote:

> 
> Anyway my tip for Shadow users also using DateBK4 --
> 
> At the moment Shadow does not support Address Book linking.  One of the
> first projects I'm putting in needs links to the address book.  (would this
> be considered the missing link?)
> 
> ....

It does have Address Book linking!  Link Manager->Add lets you add links to the
Address Book into the current item...


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com
2725

From: Ed Barlett  <f_faste@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 8:26pm
Subject: Datebook Links

 
Thanks Yaakov -- I see it now.  I even remember trying it out as I read the
manual.  I guess I got hung up on the first "LINK MANAGER" dialog -- seeing
ToDo link and Datebook link and not seeing Address book  link -- just gave
up.

I'll just sit back red-faced and lurk for a while <bg> ...

...ed


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
2726

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 8:46pm
Subject: Re: ShadowPlan Desktop won't sync

 
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Timothy Woerner wrote:

> ShadowPlan Desktop still won't sync.  Synchronization stops and 
> Visor crashes as ShadowPlan sync begins.  
> 
> My "failed" lastsync.txt file was sent to support.

	I'll reply to the support one, since I know you'll be reading that
email address. Do not send to both support and the mailing list.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2727

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 8:49pm
Subject: Re: Re: [shadow-tips] Why only one post (#2) ?

 
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, [iso-8859-1] Jacques Turbé wrote:

> > this first posting is being removed ;) Ian -- be proud, and I hope 
> you
> > don't mind.
> 
> What happens ?

	happened? He posted a "woohoo, I'm first post!" email, so I had to
remove it since shadow-tips needs to be lean ;)

> I posted friday on Shadow-tips a (long) tip. It got #2. It still
> there, alone on the list, for three days now : no more tip-posts ??
> Nobody here is any more talking about Shadow-tips ? Jeff ?

	come on everyone, lets hear your tips in shadow-tips (and
shadow-discuss if you like). I've got a few I'll post, but I'm short on
time (answering all these emails ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2728

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 8:53pm
Subject: Re: Re: [shadow-tips] Why only one post (#2) ?

 
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001, Ed Barlett wrote:

> OK, I Just bought Shadow a couple days ago -- Played with it a year or so
> ago, but started using Project -- Came back a week ago for a second look
> because of all the talk about the linking abilities.  I was truly impressed
> with the progress over the last year!

	Welcome back :)

> At the moment Shadow does not support Address Book linking.  One of the

	It sure does! Shadow links to all the built in applications!

	See the Link Manager (from link arrow or Link button in details or
/O form main list view)

> first projects I'm putting in needs links to the address book.  (would this
> be considered the missing link?)

	doh ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2729

From: richardabarnes@c...
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 8:57pm
Subject: Re: Persistant List

 
Jeff,

Thanks.  It worked on the second try. The only difference between 
your instructions and what I was doing before was that I was tapping 
the "yes" button on the "delete links" message box.  

I appreciate your extra effort.  It adds to the value of your product.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 richardabarnes@c... wrote:
> 
> > When I try to delete the list either from the menu or the trash 
can 
> > the program goes through the two normal message boxes but the 
list 
> > remains. AND when I close Shadow there is a fatal error message 
> > waiting for me (MemoryMgrNew.c Line:4257, invalid chunk ptr)  
This 
> > requires a hard reset.
> 
> 	Delte it like this:
> 
> 	Trash, Yes, No.
> 
> 	If it doesn't go away, do it a couple more times. It'll go
> away. Sometimes the OS doesn't like to let it go for a second.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2730

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 11, 2001 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Persistant List

 
On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 richardabarnes@c... wrote:

> Thanks.  It worked on the second try. The only difference between 
> your instructions and what I was doing before was that I was tapping 
> the "yes" button on the "delete links" message box.  

	yeah; I need to smarten that function up a bit. In certain cases,
when a list isn't quite kocher, it can get funny there :/

> I appreciate your extra effort.  It adds to the value of your product.

	*g* I dislike leaving people in the dark. Its about liveration,
not limiting :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2731

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2001 2:27am
Subject: Anyone using Shadow Desktop and Win XP?

 
Someone is having troubles, so I'd like to know if people are
having positive Shadow experiences with XP, or if XP is a problem.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2732

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2001 9:32am
Subject: RE: Anyone using Shadow Desktop and Win XP?

 
Positive so far. But I'm not using the desktop much yet. I'll give it
some welly this week and report any problems...
 
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: 12 November 2001 02:27
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Anyone using Shadow Desktop and Win XP?



      Someone is having troubles, so I'd like to know if people are
having positive Shadow experiences with XP, or if XP is a problem.

            jef f 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2733

From: Alan  <as265@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2001 11:20am
Subject: Re: Anyone using Shadow Desktop and Win XP?

 
I haven't had a problem with it under XP, but, to be honest, I don't use the
desktop version often.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Mitchell
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 9:27 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Anyone using Shadow Desktop and Win XP?

      Someone is having troubles, so I'd like to know if people are
having positive Shadow experiences with XP, or if XP is a problem.
2734

From: mark_dao@y...
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:33pm
Subject: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
Hi all,

Downloaded shadow plan and I've been playing with it tryin to compare 
to Bonsai / Brainforest over the weekend.  I've been using 
Brainforest for the last 2 years and am fairly disappointed that the 
app has basically not changed in that period of time.  When it first 
came out, it was great.  But no enhancements for two years?  And it 
still doesn't have full sync capabilities.

I'm really excited about Shadow b/c 1) there seems to be a lot of new 
development surrounding it 2) the app itself is already great (can't 
wait to see how it will continue to advance 3) XML support (need I 
say more).

I'm interested in writing simple db table dump to Shadow XML format 
converter (is there already one out there?) to get my bug lists 
easily converted to Shadow.

Anyways, enough of my Shadow-newbie excitement.  Couple of quick 
questions.

1) is there a way that the date column can change from --/-- to - 
when a date is not available?  Would take up less column space and be 
less intrusive.  If the "--/--" is there to differentiate from a non-
existent link "-" then perhaps the date can be changed to "--"?
2) if mini-edit is turned on (by the way, this is a GREAT! feature), 
is there a way we can get to details quicker than going through mini-
edit?
3) is there a way to switch between 
checklist/note/tasklist/flat/custom easier than using the drop down?  
I guess we're constrained by screen size and having all this 
available on the same page as detailed edit.

For the desktop app:
1) Is there going to be the standard notes column, date column, 
checkboxes, etc.?  I know this is only a first rev (and it's really 
nice by the way), but just interested in what's coming up.

Thanks in advance!

Mark
2735

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:50pm
Subject: Re: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:

> app has basically not changed in that period of time.  When it first 
> came out, it was great.  But no enhancements for two years?  And it 
> still doesn't have full sync capabilities.

	Poor BrainForest. Coolest application name and Aportis let it rot
and charged far too much for it :(

> I'm interested in writing simple db table dump to Shadow XML format 
> converter (is there already one out there?) to get my bug lists 
> easily converted to Shadow.

	Should be very easy. I do it all the time ;)

	1) Select from database
	2) Format into something useful
	3) Spit it out wrapped with <ite><title>...</title></item>
	4) Put <ShadowPlanFile> and the top, and </ShadowPlanFile> at the
bottom.
	5) Your'e done! Upload with desktop.

> 1) is there a way that the date column can change from --/-- to - when
> a date is not available?  Would take up less column space and be less
> intrusive.  If the "--/--" is there to differentiate from a non-
> existent link "-" then perhaps the date can be changed to "--"?

	I can change it, but since its been this way for a long time, it'd
require plenty of voting. Even if we changed it to - you would get no more
line space for text -- I tried that, and it looks *terrible* to have
columns overrun with text every other line. It makes the column hard to
read and thus removes its value from the lines that use it. It also throws
off the view of the list structure. So in general, a column is pretty
static. Displaying the nil-date as - is easily done, but you'd have to
convince everyone :) (We experimented a lot.. like having wrap titles use
the whole line for space, but it just ruins the look)

> 2) if mini-edit is turned on (by the way, this is a GREAT! feature),
> is there a way we can get to details quicker than going through mini-
> edit?

	Tap the details button or icon button? (ie: New and double-tap can
go to ME depending on your settings, but Details (or the icon button for
it) are always Details. You can double-tap to go to Details unless you've
set that to go to the ME.

> 3) is there a way to switch between
> checklist/note/tasklist/flat/custom easier than using the drop down?  

	Hmm. Theres no "view buttons" like in datebook type
programs. There is the [V] popmenu. In general, I don't think most people
change the list global type too often so I didn't provide a super-fast way
to do it. The [V] popmenu is pretty fast and takes up little space.

> I guess we're constrained by screen size and having all this available
> on the same page as detailed edit.

	yeah; As you can tell, I've been packling things into that little
screen like a maniac, but its tough and we've run out of space long ago :)

> For the desktop app:
> 1) Is there going to be the standard notes column, date column, 
> checkboxes, etc.?  I know this is only a first rev (and it's really 
> nice by the way), but just interested in what's coming up.

	Yep; definitely.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2736

From: Randy Willard  <randywillard@h...>
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2001 11:14pm
Subject: Re: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
Should be easy eh? Well, I guess I'm a puter dummy, cause I don't know an 
easy way to do it. Can someone write a brief tutorial on how to create a 
macro to make a list into XML? I would love it.

Thanks,

Randy

At 05:50 PM 11/12/01 -0500, you wrote:


>       Should be very easy. I do it all the time ;)
>
>       1) Select from database
>       2) Format into something useful
>       3) Spit it out wrapped with <ite><title>...</title></item>
>       4) Put <ShadowPlanFile> and the top, and </ShadowPlanFile> at the
>bottom.
>       5) Your'e done! Upload with desktop.
2737

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 12, 2001 11:22pm
Subject: Re: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
On Mon, 12 Nov 2001, Randy Willard wrote:

> Should be easy eh? Well, I guess I'm a puter dummy, cause I don't know an 
> easy way to do it. Can someone write a brief tutorial on how to create a 
> macro to make a list into XML? I would love it.

	Depends where you're getting the data from.

	I use a macro in my text editor...

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Randy
> 
> At 05:50 PM 11/12/01 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> 
> >       Should be very easy. I do it all the time ;)
> >
> >       1) Select from database
> >       2) Format into something useful
> >       3) Spit it out wrapped with <ite><title>...</title></item>
> >       4) Put <ShadowPlanFile> and the top, and </ShadowPlanFile> at the
> >bottom.
> >       5) Your'e done! Upload with desktop.
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2738

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:00am
Subject: ShadowDesktop printing problem

 
Jeff,

Whenever I print one of the (great looking) Shadow files, the 
software overrides my printer selections and chooses A4 paper size 
instead of my default letter size. I am running Win98 with an HP IIIP 
Laserjet. Anyone else having this problem?
2739

From: mark_dao@y...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:26am
Subject: Re: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:
> 
> > app has basically not changed in that period of time.  When it
> > first came out, it was great.  But no enhancements for two
> > years?  And it still doesn't have full sync capabilities.
> 
> 	Poor BrainForest. Coolest application name and Aportis let
>       it rot and charged far too much for it :(

Can't agree more.  BrainForest is a cool name ... although Shadow is 
pretty darn marketable.  I'm now a registered Shadow user. :)

 
> > 1) is there a way that the date column can change from --/-- to - 
> > when a date is not available?  Would take up less column space
> > and be less intrusive.  If the "--/--" is there to differentiate
> > from a non-existent link "-" then perhaps the date can be
> > changed to "--"?
> 
> 	I can change it, but since its been this way for a long time,
>       it'd require plenty of voting. Even if we changed it to - you
>       would get no more line space for text -- I tried that, and it
>       looks *terrible* to have columns overrun with text every
>       other line. It makes the column hard to read and thus removes
>       its value from the lines that use it. It also throws
>       off the view of the list structure. So in general, a column
>       is pretty static. Displaying the nil-date as - is easily 
>       done, but you'd have to convince everyone :) (We experimented
>       a lot.. like having wrap titles use the whole line for space,
>       but it just ruins the look)

Yeah, this request is more out of cleanliness of the look rather than 
getting extra space.  I guess my first message was a bit misleading.  
It would be nice to have an option to show "nothing" for nil-dates so 
the view would be less cluttered (see Bonsai or BF).

I have some pretty deep trees and I tend to mix notes with todo's. 
None of my notes have dates. Some of my todo's don't have dates and 
some do.  It would be nice to only see something in the date column 
for date items rather than having a whole column of --/-- just for 
the couple of rows that have dates.  At the same time, I need some 
sort of visual indicator for the todo's that do have dates associated.

Perhaps my usage is still BF focused and as I use Shadow more I'll be 
able to either visually filter the --/-- column.

If it's easy, I think it would be a really nice option to have 
either "--/--" or "" for empty dates.  What do you think?

> > 2) if mini-edit is turned on (by the way, this is a GREAT! 
feature), is there a way we can get to details quicker than going 
through mini-edit?
> 
> 	Tap the details button or icon button? (ie: New and double-
>       tap can go to ME depending on your settings, but Details (or
>       the icon button for it) are always Details. You can double-
>       tap to go to Details unless you've set that to go to the ME.

Cool, didn't see the details button.  Excellent!  Exactly what I was 
looking for.

Thanks.
2740

From: mark_dao@y...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 3:03am
Subject: Auto number

 
Anybody know why the autonumber flag gets automatically changed by 
the destop?

I've got a shadow file on my palm.  I sync with the desktop.  Open 
the tree to level 4.  When I try to close the desktop, it asks me if 
I want to save my changes.

Did I set some property somewhere?

TIA.
2741

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 3:23am
Subject: Re: ShadowDesktop printing problem

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> Whenever I print one of the (great looking) Shadow files, the 

	But if anyone knows any html whizzes, get back to me ;) The
formatting could use some sprucing up :) And what sort of options do I
need to offer? (I know I know.. filtering, then print derived from
filters..)

> software overrides my printer selections and chooses A4 paper size 
> instead of my default letter size. I am running Win98 with an HP IIIP 
> Laserjet. Anyone else having this problem?

	Yeah, its a lttle funny. Each time you open Shadow Desktop, you
need to pick the paper type. I need to work on that.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2742

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 3:30am
Subject: Re: Re: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:

> Can't agree more.  BrainForest is a cool name ... although Shadow is 
> pretty darn marketable.  I'm now a registered Shadow user. :)

	I don't know if Shadow is really marketable, but its "cool" and
people tend to remember it :)  I also like to claim that I came up with it
as a neat idea of your Shadow remembering your data (see, thats the
catch=phrase I use).. but it originally just came out of the blue and
knocked me on the head. "Shadow". I tried hard to think of somethign
better, like "Palm Plan" but didn't want to get into hot water with Palm.
"Hand Plan" just sounded like you wanted to smack someone. Shadow was then
the secret code until I released it. So it went to Alpha and Beta as
Shadow and when it came time for 1.0 I couldn't think of a better name,
and I have to dmit.. I *really* like "Shadow Plan" for some unknown
reason. So it stuck. 

	As the desktop says, its secret code name was "Kickaha", though
few know it. Anyone keeping a Shadow Trivia question list? :)

	But now everyone has dregded up "The Shadow Knows", but its not my
fault ;)

> Yeah, this request is more out of cleanliness of the look rather than 
> getting extra space.  I guess my first message was a bit misleading.  
> It would be nice to have an option to show "nothing" for nil-dates so 
> the view would be less cluttered (see Bonsai or BF).

	I could make a pref to suppress --/-- if multiple people want
it. *shrug*

> If it's easy, I think it would be a really nice option to have either
> "--/--" or "" for empty dates.  What do you think?

	Its easily done. I tend not to use dates on the main display (too
much space consumed) so it doesn't matter to me. I am tempted to offer
start and finish date optional columns, but then your screen is totally
shot. I've been trying to think of a slick graphical way to display
dates.. like a mini calendar with the month hilighted.. but it always
takes more room that we have, on a *per column* basis. If you wanted to
show start, finish, and target, then we have 3 columns space to work in,
I'm sure we could do it in 2 (for a 1 column saving). But stilll...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2743

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 3:55am
Subject: Re: Auto number

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:

> Anybody know why the autonumber flag gets automatically changed by 
> the destop?

	Does it? If so, that is a bug.

> I've got a shadow file on my palm.  I sync with the desktop.  Open 
> the tree to level 4.  When I try to close the desktop, it asks me if 
> I want to save my changes.

	If you expanded or collapsed items, than that is a "change" in
that the desktop can save that and remember it for next time. However,
expand and collapse changes will not be sent over to the handheld unless
something else is also changed in those items.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2745

From: mark_dao@y...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 7:53am
Subject: Re: Auto number

 
> > Anybody know why the autonumber flag gets automatically changed 
> > by the destop?
> 
> 	Does it? If so, that is a bug.
> 
> > I've got a shadow file on my palm.  I sync with the desktop.
> > Open the tree to level 4.  When I try to close the desktop, it 
> > asks me if I want to save my changes.
> 
> 	If you expanded or collapsed items, than that is a "change"
>       in that the desktop can save that and remember it for next
>       time. However, expand and collapse changes will not be sent
>       over to the handheld unless something else is also changed
>       in those items.

Actually what I'm trying to do is figure out why I get a whole bunch 
of duplicates on both sides (desktop and palm).  So after I did 
the "save changes" off the desktop, I did a diff with a backup 
version of the .xml file.  A whole bunch of lines came up as a diff 
with the "autonumber flag" changed.

All of this is with the unregistered version (since I haven't 
received my registration code from palm gear yet).  I'll let you know 
if I still have problems after registering.

I was just wondering if there was something random that I was doing 
incorrectly.

Thanks,
Mark
2746

From: mark_dao@y...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 7:57am
Subject: Re: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
> Its easily done. I tend not to use dates on the main display (too
> much space consumed) so it doesn't matter to me. I am tempted to
> offer start and finish date optional columns, but then your screen
> is totally shot. I've been trying to think of a slick graphical way
> to display dates.. like a mini calendar with the month hilighted..
> but it always takes more room that we have, on a *per column*
> basis. If you wanted to show start, finish, and target, then we
> have 3 columns space to work in,
> I'm sure we could do it in 2 (for a 1 column saving). But stilll...

Definitely agree that showing start/finish/target would take WAY too 
much room.  Even two columns is a lot of room.  I guess for what I 
do, I could care less when the start date was and when I actually 
finished.  I just want to know what my target dates are.  Anyways, 
how many pixels do you have for the date column?  I'll see if our UI 
guys at work can come up with anything swift.
2747

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 10:43am
Subject: Moving from LifeBalance

 
Hi people!

I am a new user, waiting for my license after registering just now. 

I am also a current user of LifeBalance and have loads of stuff now essentially trapped. Does anyone have smart ideas on how to move my data out of there and into a nice Shadow outline? The ToDo-exports of LB will just give me flat items of the final "leafs" of each branch, AFAIK. That won't do at all, I'm afraid. Yeah - retyping, you say? I'm ecstatic about that option :-)

Thanks!


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
2748

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 0:58pm
Subject: Re: Okay to upgrade from 1.54 to 2.0?

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 mtamsm@y... wrote:

> Just checking to see if I need to upgrade from 1.54 incrementally to 
> 2.0.

	Nope; just do the leap. You only have to worry if you're coming
from way back, like 1.2 or maybe 1.3 to 2.0; 1.5.4 is reasonably recent so
should not be a problem whatsoever.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2749

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:04pm
Subject: RE: Moving from LifeBalance

 
I've forgotten since I used it last-- will LB export as a memo or into
another database format like BrainForest or Bonsai?? You could then import
to Shadow without any trouble at all.

If not, it might be faster to let it import your todos and then reconstruct
the outline manually, instead of typing in every single item.  You'll
probably find that you'll organize things slightly differently in Shadow
anyway.


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
[mailto:tormod.halvorsen@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:44 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Moving from LifeBalance


Hi people!

I am a new user, waiting for my license after registering just now.

I am also a current user of LifeBalance and have loads of stuff now
essentially trapped. Does anyone have smart ideas on how to move my data out
of there and into a nice Shadow outline? The ToDo-exports of LB will just
give me flat items of the final "leafs" of each branch, AFAIK. That won't do
at all, I'm afraid. Yeah - retyping, you say? I'm ecstatic about that option
:-)

Thanks!


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2750

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:25pm
Subject: RE: Moving from LifeBalance

 
>I've forgotten since I used it last-- will LB export as a memo or into
		>another database format like BrainForest or Bonsai??

Nope - no exports of any kind besides ToDo's. This is a major limitation of the app IMO.


		>If not, it might be faster to let it import your todos and then reconstruct
		>the outline manually, instead of typing in every single item. 

Yeah, I might have to do that. Heh - I tried to add to an outline just and hit the ceiling for number of allowed records in the eval :-) I *will* be organizing a bit differently. I am trying to implement some Covey-principles and use the Quadrant 2 method. It does take some getting used to, but it sure seems nifty.


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
2751

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Auto number

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:

> Actually what I'm trying to do is figure out why I get a whole bunch 
> of duplicates on both sides (desktop and palm).  So after I did 
> the "save changes" off the desktop, I did a diff with a backup 
> version of the .xml file.  A whole bunch of lines came up as a diff 
> with the "autonumber flag" changed.

	You mean, in the XML before you did some stuff on the desktop the
autonumber was 0, and then after you did some stuff, the autonumber was
non-zero? The GUI shouldn't touch autonumber at this point.

> All of this is with the unregistered version (since I haven't 
> received my registration code from palm gear yet).  I'll let you know 
> if I still have problems after registering.

	PG sometimes takes a few hours or a day to get me the orders.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2752

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 1:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Date Column display / Details View + mini edit

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:

> Definitely agree that showing start/finish/target would take WAY too 
> much room.  Even two columns is a lot of room.  I guess for what I 
> do, I could care less when the start date was and when I actually 
> finished.  I just want to know what my target dates are.  Anyways, 
> how many pixels do you have for the date column?  I'll see if our UI 
> guys at work can come up with anything swift.

	Not many ;) I'm not at the code right now, but I'd guess it gets
about 40 or 50 pixels..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2753

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Moving from LifeBalance

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:

> I am also a current user of LifeBalance and have loads of stuff now
> essentially trapped. Does anyone have smart ideas on how to move my
> data out of there and into a nice Shadow outline? The ToDo-exports of
> LB will just give me flat items of the final "leafs" of each branch,
> AFAIK. That won't do at all, I'm afraid. Yeah - retyping, you say? I'm
> ecstatic about that option :-)

	What other export options are there? ToDo is last ditch. OKay, is
there a memo or DOC or other form of text export?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2754

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:27pm
Subject: RE: Moving from LifeBalance

 
On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 tormod.halvorsen@s... wrote:

> >'ve forgotten since I used it last-- will LB export as a memo or into
> >another database format like BrainForest or Bonsai??
> 
> Nope - no exports of any kind besides ToDo's. This is a major
> limitation of the app IMO.

	I suspect a lot of applications give limited (or crappy) exports
so its harder to leave them. at the same time, it severely limits their
tools usefullness.  Some of the other outliners have really crappy (read,
useless, ambiguous, etc) exports. I'm very pleased that Shadow works in
terms of XML.. that should get you your data into any number of things.

>>If not, it might be faster to let it import your todos and then reconstruct
>>the outline manually, instead of typing in every single item. 
> 
> Yeah, I might have to do that. Heh - I tried to add to an outline just
> and hit the ceiling for number of allowed records in the eval :-) I
> *will* be organizing a bit differently. I am trying to implement some
> Covey-principles and use the Quadrant 2 method. It does take some
> getting used to, but it sure seems nifty.

	Keep us posted. Everyone is always interested in how other peopel
organize themselves. Maybe we'll pick up something, and maybe theres lots
to share for you to pick up. Enjoy!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2755

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 6:11pm
Subject: Keyboard?

 
I just snagged a Targus Stowaway so I can do some keyboard
improvements for you guys :)

	So now.. what do I need to get to make my keyboard worth the
investment?

	1) New drivers have a mouse pointer? Whats this?!
	2) LaptopHack sounds good.
	3) What other toys are cool?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2756

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 6:18pm
Subject: RE: Keyboard?

 
Actually, I don’t think the new driver is quite so fast as the old, and the
mouse pointer feature is of limited use.  I haven’t tried Laptop Hack yet
though, so I hope you’ll tell us about your experiences!

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 12:12 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Keyboard?



	I just snagged a Targus Stowaway so I can do some keyboard
improvements for you guys :)

	So now.. what do I need to get to make my keyboard worth the
investment?

	1) New drivers have a mouse pointer? Whats this?!
	2) LaptopHack sounds good.
	3) What other toys are cool?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2757

From: e@ematthews.net
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 6:39pm
Subject: New Premier Datebook -- DateMan

 
FYI Check out the datebook forum for a new premier datebook call 
DateMan. Seems to work well with Shadow.
The beta version is available. Responsive author!!!!
First public release Dec 1 2001

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DateMan
2758

From: Alan  <as265@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 13, 2001 11:45pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard?

 
Laptop Hack is great, but it has a steep learning curve, IMHO.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeff Mitchell 
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:11 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Keyboard?



      I just snagged a Targus Stowaway so I can do some keyboard
improvements for you guys :)

      So now.. what do I need to get to make my keyboard worth the
investment?

      1) New drivers have a mouse pointer? Whats this?!
      2) LaptopHack sounds good.
      3) What other toys are cool?
2759

From: mark_dao@y...
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2001 2:17am
Subject: Re: Auto number

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:
> 
> > Actually what I'm trying to do is figure out why I get a whole
> > bunch of duplicates on both sides (desktop and palm).  So after
> > I did the "save changes" off the desktop, I did a diff with a
> > backup version of the .xml file.  A whole bunch of lines came up 
> > as a diff with the "autonumber flag" changed.
> 
> 	You mean, in the XML before you did some stuff on the desktop
>       the autonumber was 0, and then after you did some stuff, the
>       autonumber was non-zero? The GUI shouldn't touch autonumber
>       at this point.

Ok, I've registered everything and the desktop app is definitely 
doing something odd.  I've got a list with list-pref autonumbering 
set to bullet-bullet-bullet.

Then I take the following steps:

sync with desktop (save copy of recipes.xml as foo.xml)
open list in DT app
open up first level
close first level
close the current list (not the whole DT app, just the current list)
[asked to save list]
save

Diff foo.xml and recipes.xml

Every single autonumber has been set back to 0 by the desktop app.

Am I doing something wrong?

-Mark
2760

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2001 5:33am
Subject: RE: Keyboard?

 
>So now.. what do I need to get to make my keyboard worth the
			>investment?
			>
			>1) New drivers have a mouse pointer? Whats this?!
Stowaway - that's the same as the PPK, right? It folds together nicely. The new driver is at www.thinkoutside.com <http://www.thinkoutside.com>  and if you enable the pointer, it will show a little pointer-arrow on screen when you hold down the Alt-key. Move it around with the direction arrows and click with the Enter-key, all while still holding down Alt. I certainly find it more pleasant than letting go of the keys and grab for the stylus all the time, and I find it very useful.

			>2) LaptopHack sounds good.
I didn't really understand it myself, as someone else said, it seems to have quite a learning curve. It supposedly works synergistically with pEdit32 (think that's the name, same author) - a rather powerful, if geeky, editor.

			>3) What other toys are cool?
The keyboard itself *is* kinda cool. I still get "ooohhss" and "aahhs" whenever I set it up at the start of a meeting. It has that nice James Bond feeling to it, I think. What I really want now is the Bluetooth SD-card so I can connect without having to line up the darn IR for my phone. I think the PQAs would be much more valuable to me then.


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2761

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2001 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Auto number

 
I tried it and you are correct. This is a bug. I will fix ASAP.

		jeff

On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 mark_dao@y... wrote:

> Ok, I've registered everything and the desktop app is definitely 
> doing something odd.  I've got a list with list-pref autonumbering 
> set to bullet-bullet-bullet.
> 
> Then I take the following steps:
> 
> sync with desktop (save copy of recipes.xml as foo.xml)
> open list in DT app
> open up first level
> close first level
> close the current list (not the whole DT app, just the current list)
> [asked to save list]
> save
> 
> Diff foo.xml and recipes.xml
> 
> Every single autonumber has been set back to 0 by the desktop app.
> 
> Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> -Mark
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2762

From: jreyes1958@y...
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2001 2:09pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard?

 
I find like a lot of tools that i only use about 20% of the laptophack
  "LTH" thing, the 80% i don't even know how to use. 

The most useful feature is the rotator function -- that is -- while my
keyboard (gotype keyboard) has functions for enter button, new button,
cancel button, there always seems to be buttons -- (good example would
be the icons in SP) that you can get to, so laptop hack allows you to
rotate thru the buttons in turn to invoke them.

The whole idea of laptop hack appears to be the idealistic theory that
you should be able to do everything from the keyboard without a
stylus. -- found that i can mainly accomplish that, but some are so
fiddley in laptop hack that its not worth the effort to remember the
keysequence or menu option that i reach for the stylus. Same could be
said for windows, some things could be done with keyboard, but some
are done so infrequently that i just reach for the mouse.

as for pedit -- it is a geeky tool -- reminds me of emacs or pico --
both of which i use in my day job but again even in those powerful
tools, i only use about 20% of the software -- same could be said for
software like excel -- there are ton of functions and add-ins that
come with it that probably are never installed or used except by the
few people who really need them. Not knocking the approach, because
when you need that esoteric function, nothing else will do, but for
80% of us we only need the 20% of the features. 


now comes out my academic snobby self  :) :)

steep learning curve technically means something is easy, but
unfortunately everyday venacular has denoted it to be exactly the
opposite -- 

oh well, sigh!!!






--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Alan" <as265@y...> wrote:
> Laptop Hack is great, but it has a steep learning curve, IMHO.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Jeff Mitchell 
> To: shadow-discuss@y... 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 1:11 PM
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Keyboard?
> 
> 
> 
>       I just snagged a Targus Stowaway so I can do some keyboard
> improvements for you guys :)
> 
>       So now.. what do I need to get to make my keyboard worth the
> investment?
> 
>       1) New drivers have a mouse pointer? Whats this?!
>       2) LaptopHack sounds good.
>       3) What other toys are cool?
2763

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2001 4:33pm
Subject: New poll for shadow-discuss

 
Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
shadow-discuss group:

Should undated and/or non-priority (-)
items ALWAYS be sorted to the bottom of
the list or the top of the list? Or
shoudl they follow the normal sort
mechanism, but be counted as
lowest-possible or highest-possible
values? (remember that Ascending sorts
count the lowest at the top and the
highest at the bottom!) 

  o Always sort undated/nil-priority to top 
  o Always sort undated/nil-priority to bottom 
  o Count undated/nil-priority as lowest value for sort 
  o Count undated/nil-priority as highest value for sort 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/polls 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!
2764

From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:47pm
Subject: New poll for shadow-discuss

 
Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
shadow-discuss group:

What desktop operating system do you use
for sychronization? (ie: If you're using
Unix but sync with Windows, tell me
which Windows. If you're using Unix and
synching with Unix, say that.) (multiple
choices allowed for those who synch in
multiple locations) 

  o Windows 95/98/ME 
  o Windows NT/2000 
  o Windows XP (home, business, etc) 
  o Mac OS 9.x or earlier 
  o Mac OS X (or X.1, etc) 
  o Unix (FreeBSD, Linux, NetBSD, Solaris, etc) 


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/polls 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site listed above.

Thanks!
2765

From: broth123@y...
Date: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:23pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard?

 
I would get the new driver - it allows me to use the keyboard with 
the mini-editor using the pointer.  It stays persentent in that 
position and I can slam through the entry of data using the keyboard.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I just snagged a Targus Stowaway so I can do some keyboard
> improvements for you guys :)
> 
> 	So now.. what do I need to get to make my keyboard worth the
> investment?
> 
> 	1) New drivers have a mouse pointer? Whats this?!
> 	2) LaptopHack sounds good.
> 	3) What other toys are cool?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2766

From: mandora@a...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:55am
Subject: Desktop Suggestions

 
Version 2.0 of Shadow is an awesome application, Jeff!! Your hard 
work has paid off for users. I have been using Bonsai and previously 
Thought Manager. I have taken both off my Palm.

I assume that the desktop is in an early stage of development and 
open for relatively major enhancements so here goes for your 
consideration and comment by my user colleagues...

I like the concept of being able to see the details of a list on the 
desktop without having to open a menu or drill-down to the details, 
but I would most definitely give this up to gain "in place" editing 
of text in the List Panel. Editing in the detail panel is not 
intuitive and its means a lot of mouse movement. More importantly, it 
does not allow for "in place" promotion or demotion of items or 
select-and-drag moving of items within an outline - all features that 
are intuitive and necessary when working an outline. In the current 
layout, if I change my mind and want to promote or demote an item or 
move it around in the outline, for example, there is no easy way to 
do this.

As per above comments, I think the List Panel should be dynamic and 
the Details Panel a passive reflector of details. 

I really like the New Item and New Child buttons. Functionality could 
be enhanced if these commands were put on a right-click menu (and/or 
keyboard equivalent) along with other editing commands and possibly 
an undo command in the List View? I would also like to see right 
click access to items in the details Panel. Right-click access to 
editing and details functions would be an efficient and effective way 
to manage lists.

The delete feature with the highlighting seems cumbersome. I would 
also prefer an undo feature and dispensing with the delete 
confirmation dialog box.

I work with about 60+ lists. It would be helpful to have a standard 
maximize button in the upper right corner of the List View. 
Currently, I have to drag the window to the upper left and drag the 
lower right corner down to seem my lists without scrolling.

The ShadP file prefix takes up a lot of space. I assume the prefix is 
needed but could it be shorted to SP and four more character spaces 
freed up for file name?

I usually edit multiple lists on the desktop in a given session. It 
would be helpful to go to the File Selector window from the List View 
rather than the initial screen. This could be a button and/or right 
click option in the List View.

A copy and paste function is needed in the List View. An industrial 
strength feature would be a multiclip copy/move capability so that 
scattered items (with or without children) could be collected and 
pasted singlely or as a group in to one or more locations.

A filter function would be useful.

The menu bar expand-collapse buttons are global - they act on the 
whole list. Sometimes, I would prefer to expand a single item and its 
children within a list. That function could be put on a right click 
menu. That would allow both functionalities to co-exist in an 
intuitive way.

Is it possible to indicate in details if an item has a link to TODO, 
Datebook, Address or other function on the Palm, e.g. T, D, A, M, O 
for other?

Thanks for considering these suggestions.  -  Morris Manning
2767

From: mandora@a...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:55am
Subject: Desktop Suggestions

 
Version 2.0 of Shadow is an awesome application, Jeff!! Your hard 
work has paid off for users. I have been using Bonsai and previously 
Thought Manager. I have taken both off my Palm.

I assume that the desktop is in an early stage of development and 
open for relatively major enhancements so here goes for your 
consideration and comment by my user colleagues...

I like the concept of being able to see the details of a list on the 
desktop without having to open a menu or drill-down to the details, 
but I would most definitely give this up to gain "in place" editing 
of text in the List Panel. Editing in the detail panel is not 
intuitive and its means a lot of mouse movement. More importantly, it 
does not allow for "in place" promotion or demotion of items or 
select-and-drag moving of items within an outline - all features that 
are intuitive and necessary when working an outline. In the current 
layout, if I change my mind and want to promote or demote an item or 
move it around in the outline, for example, there is no easy way to 
do this.

As per above comments, I think the List Panel should be dynamic and 
the Details Panel a passive reflector of details. 

I really like the New Item and New Child buttons. Functionality could 
be enhanced if these commands were put on a right-click menu (and/or 
keyboard equivalent) along with other editing commands and possibly 
an undo command in the List View? I would also like to see right 
click access to items in the details Panel. Right-click access to 
editing and details functions would be an efficient and effective way 
to manage lists.

The delete feature with the highlighting seems cumbersome. I would 
also prefer an undo feature and dispensing with the delete 
confirmation dialog box.

I work with about 60+ lists. It would be helpful to have a standard 
maximize button in the upper right corner of the List View. 
Currently, I have to drag the window to the upper left and drag the 
lower right corner down to seem my lists without scrolling.

The ShadP file prefix takes up a lot of space. I assume the prefix is 
needed but could it be shorted to SP and four more character spaces 
freed up for file name?

I usually edit multiple lists on the desktop in a given session. It 
would be helpful to go to the File Selector window from the List View 
rather than the initial screen. This could be a button and/or right 
click option in the List View.

A copy and paste function is needed in the List View. An industrial 
strength feature would be a multiclip copy/move capability so that 
scattered items (with or without children) could be collected and 
pasted singlely or as a group in to one or more locations.

A filter function would be useful.

The menu bar expand-collapse buttons are global - they act on the 
whole list. Sometimes, I would prefer to expand a single item and its 
children within a list. That function could be put on a right click 
menu. That would allow both functionalities to co-exist in an 
intuitive way.

Is it possible to indicate in details if an item has a link to TODO, 
Datebook, Address or other function on the Palm, e.g. T, D, A, M, O 
for other?

Thanks for considering these suggestions.  -  Morris Manning
2768

From: simonr@e...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 11:36am
Subject: Project management question...

 
I'm just starting to use Shadow and I'd like to know if something is 
possible:

- If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' must 
be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded by 'choose 
colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that are 
preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the immediate 
priorities in the forest of actions!

Also, as far as I (in my ignorance) can see, a child is a sub-task of 
its parent (so, all the tasks above would be children of 'redecorate 
the kitchen') ...am I right?

Thanks for any advice or tips - Simon in Dublin
2769

From: samuel_oridium@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 0:30pm
Subject: Launching from within the Palm Desktop

 
Hi,

Firstly, I just want to say ... GREAT PRODUCT!!!

My question is, is there a way or any plans to make it possible to 
have an icon within the Palm Desktop and be capable of launching the 
Shadow Desktop from within the Palm Desktop?  For example, 
SplashData's SplashWallet has two icons in the icon bar within the 
Palm Desktop.  Not a neccessity but a convenience =)

Cheers.
2770

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 simonr@e... wrote:

> - If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' must 
> be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded by 'choose 
> colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that are 
> preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the immediate 
> priorities in the forest of actions!

	Hmm. There might be a way to get that to happen through careful
use of some detail and a filter, but off the top of my head I dont' see an
"easy" way. But I could add somethign pretty quickly.. thats interesting.

	A new filter that will select items that have only complete items
before them, where before is "up the screen on the same level". That seems
like a *great* idea, and shoudl be very simple to implement.

> Also, as far as I (in my ignorance) can see, a child is a sub-task of 
> its parent (so, all the tasks above would be children of 'redecorate 
> the kitchen') ...am I right?

	Depends on your personal system. Thats the way I do things, but
your mileage may vary. Its definitely an intuitive way to begin and very
powerful.

	You should jin shadow-tips mailing list/web forum (brand new, but
the focus is good tried and true ideas, low volume), and if you don't mind
a bit of volume, shadow-discuss mailing list/web forum, which is wehere
people ahs out ideas,  discuss new features, and otehrwise try and help
each other.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2771

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:41pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 simonr@e... wrote:

> I'm just starting to use Shadow and I'd like to know if something is 
> possible:
> 
> - If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' must 
> be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded by 'choose 
> colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that are 
> preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the immediate 
> priorities in the forest of actions!

	OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
shadow-discuss :)

	Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
have preceeding items checked. So if you had:

X	step 1 (checked)
X	step 2 (checked)
_	step 3
_	step 4

	Then you activate the filter, it'd show:

X	step 1
X	step 2
_	step 3

	(step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2772

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 1:49pm
Subject: Re: Launching from within the Palm Desktop

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 samuel_oridium@y... wrote:

> Firstly, I just want to say ... GREAT PRODUCT!!!

	Thanks :)

> My question is, is there a way or any plans to make it possible to 
> have an icon within the Palm Desktop and be capable of launching the 
> Shadow Desktop from within the Palm Desktop?  For example, 
> SplashData's SplashWallet has two icons in the icon bar within the 
> Palm Desktop.  Not a neccessity but a convenience =)

	I think that is only supported in Palm Desktop 4, so I've not
looked into it. (The Start menu isn't to far away). If it is desirable by
a few people, Ic an look into it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2773

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:03pm
Subject: new filter proposal

 
OKay, I'm extra tired. Two weird posts in a row. I'm waking up
now.

	So, a filter called something like Show "Next Steps".

	Given:

X	step 1
X	step 2
_	step 3
_	step 4

	Activate the filter and see only:

_	step 3

	A nicely compressed and tight display. Check step 3, and suddenly
step 4 would be shown instead.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2774

From: Bob Noe  <bnoe@c...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:12pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
I would see that it would be fun to have the new filter and I can think of
some places where it may be useful in my day to day activities.  How would
multiple levels effect it?

given:
_ step 1
x   step 1a
x   step 1b
_   step 1c
_   step 1d
_ step 2
_   step 2a
_   step 2b

with the filter applied would you see:
_ step 1
_    step 1c
_ step 2
_   step 2a

or would you just see:
_ step 1
_    step 1c

Just out of curiosity when will more defineable filters start to be
available.  I have been playing more and more with filters and think what I
want is Current and Past incomplete items, I know its close to Incomplete
and overdue but that seems to be encouraging me to wait till things are past
due to do them.

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:03 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] new filter proposal


>
> OKay, I'm extra tired. Two weird posts in a row. I'm waking up
> now.
>
> So, a filter called something like Show "Next Steps".
>
> Given:
>
> X step 1
> X step 2
> _ step 3
> _ step 4
>
> Activate the filter and see only:
>
> _ step 3
>
> A nicely compressed and tight display. Check step 3, and suddenly
> step 4 would be shown instead.
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
2775

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:43pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Bob Noe wrote:

> I would see that it would be fun to have the new filter and I can think of
> some places where it may be useful in my day to day activities.  How would
> multiple levels effect it?

	Thats complex. I'm currently going on the idea:

	Top level items always selected. It'd be too complex for the
filter to allow for you to set a always-displayt-to-depth-y, so I'm
assuming show level 1 always, and then show first unchecked item only.
That gets a bit trick for level 3 items, but seems to "make some
sense". It may be useful to some, and not useful to others, depending on
their personal system.

> Just out of curiosity when will more defineable filters start to be
> available.  I have been playing more and more with filters and think what I
> want is Current and Past incomplete items, I know its close to Incomplete
> and overdue but that seems to be encouraging me to wait till things are past
> due to do them.

	I'm hoping to fix international issues in the desktop application,
then worry about what to do after that :) Tags and complex filters go hand
in hand...

		jeff

> 
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
> To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:03 AM
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] new filter proposal
> 
> 
> >
> > OKay, I'm extra tired. Two weird posts in a row. I'm waking up
> > now.
> >
> > So, a filter called something like Show "Next Steps".
> >
> > Given:
> >
> > X step 1
> > X step 2
> > _ step 3
> > _ step 4
> >
> > Activate the filter and see only:
> >
> > _ step 3
> >
> > A nicely compressed and tight display. Check step 3, and suddenly
> > step 4 would be shown instead.
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2776

From: Bob Noe  <bnoe@c...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:45pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
As filters become more and more useful would a 'recent filters' section on
the 'F' button at the top right make sense, maybe instead of just remove
filter/the last active filter you could display remove filter and the last
three or five filters?

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] new filter proposal


> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Bob Noe wrote:
>
> > I would see that it would be fun to have the new filter and I can think
of
> > some places where it may be useful in my day to day activities.  How
would
> > multiple levels effect it?
>
> Thats complex. I'm currently going on the idea:
>
> Top level items always selected. It'd be too complex for the
> filter to allow for you to set a always-displayt-to-depth-y, so I'm
> assuming show level 1 always, and then show first unchecked item only.
> That gets a bit trick for level 3 items, but seems to "make some
> sense". It may be useful to some, and not useful to others, depending on
> their personal system.
>
> > Just out of curiosity when will more defineable filters start to be
> > available.  I have been playing more and more with filters and think
what I
> > want is Current and Past incomplete items, I know its close to
Incomplete
> > and overdue but that seems to be encouraging me to wait till things are
past
> > due to do them.
>
> I'm hoping to fix international issues in the desktop application,
> then worry about what to do after that :) Tags and complex filters go hand
> in hand...
>
> jeff
>
> >
> > Bob
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
> > To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 9:03 AM
> > Subject: [shadow-discuss] new filter proposal
> >
> >
> > >
> > > OKay, I'm extra tired. Two weird posts in a row. I'm waking up
> > > now.
> > >
> > > So, a filter called something like Show "Next Steps".
> > >
> > > Given:
> > >
> > > X step 1
> > > X step 2
> > > _ step 3
> > > _ step 4
> > >
> > > Activate the filter and see only:
> > >
> > > _ step 3
> > >
> > > A nicely compressed and tight display. Check step 3, and suddenly
> > > step 4 would be shown instead.
> > >
> > > jeff
> > >
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
2777

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:48pm
Subject: RE: Project management question...

 
I wouldn't want to see more than one previously checked option, but that's
just me-- seems like too much screen clutter to show one and two already
checked.

Also, what would happen to projects that don't have one thing already
checked-- would you show the first one then, such as step one in your
example if none of the four were checked?

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 7:42 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Project management question...


On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 simonr@e... wrote:

> I'm just starting to use Shadow and I'd like to know if something is
> possible:
>
> - If I have a project with dependencies, e.g. 'paint the wall' must
> be preceded by 'buy paint' which in turn must be preceded by 'choose
> colour' - is it possible with Shadow to hide all the tasks that are
> preceded by an incomplete task? This would help me see the immediate
> priorities in the forest of actions!

	OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
shadow-discuss :)

	Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
have preceeding items checked. So if you had:

X	step 1 (checked)
X	step 2 (checked)
_	step 3
_	step 4

	Then you activate the filter, it'd show:

X	step 1
X	step 2
_	step 3

	(step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)

		jeff
2778

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:48pm
Subject: RE: Launching from within the Palm Desktop

 
I would adore that functionality.  Why clutter up your desktop and your
start menu if that's not necessary-- all those extra icons take up memory.
Why not consolidate your use of hte Palm programs as much as possible, into
the Palm desktop? That would make launching Shadow quick and easy. You could
give the choice during install, or just install the icon to the Palm
Desktop. Most people probably would be able to find the program if they
wanted to add a desktop shortcut, wouldn't they?


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 7:49 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Launching from within the Palm Desktop


On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 samuel_oridium@y... wrote:

> Firstly, I just want to say ... GREAT PRODUCT!!!

	Thanks :)

> My question is, is there a way or any plans to make it possible to
> have an icon within the Palm Desktop and be capable of launching the
> Shadow Desktop from within the Palm Desktop?  For example,
> SplashData's SplashWallet has two icons in the icon bar within the
> Palm Desktop.  Not a neccessity but a convenience =)

	I think that is only supported in Palm Desktop 4, so I've not
looked into it. (The Start menu isn't to far away). If it is desirable by
a few people, Ic an look into it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2779

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:49pm
Subject: RE: new filter proposal

 
Yes!!  That's it!  That would be just super. What I'm doing now to
approximate this effect is to use highlighting for projects that are due
today, and I filter out already checked items. This method would be cleaner
and quicker.

Also, while we're talking about suggestions:

could there be a tiny bit more room between the completion circle, the
priority, and the text of an item?  I have a real hard time hitting the one
that I want and it's getting pretty frustrating- checking things off when I
mean to change the category, so the filter makes them disappear, etc.


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:03 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] new filter proposal



	OKay, I'm extra tired. Two weird posts in a row. I'm waking up
now.

	So, a filter called something like Show "Next Steps".

	Given:

X	step 1
X	step 2
_	step 3
_	step 4

	Activate the filter and see only:

_	step 3

	A nicely compressed and tight display. Check step 3, and suddenly
step 4 would be shown instead.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2780

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:54pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Bob Noe wrote:

> As filters become more and more useful would a 'recent filters' section on
> the 'F' button at the top right make sense, maybe instead of just remove
> filter/the last active filter you could display remove filter and the last
> three or five filters?

	We can worry about that later; once custom filters come, things
will have to change due to how they will need to operate.. so that coudlbe
possible or impossible, depending.

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2781

From: Alan  <as265@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:55pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
Jeff:

I too think that adding this feature would be very useful...  It's one of
the things I really liked about Life Balance.

The filtered view is a nice option, because you can opt to see your entire
project, or only the next action item pending, which is dependant on the
item above it being completed.

Another alternative, although probably much more difficult to program, would
be to add the ability to have this functionality extended to the To-Do
links.  The way I see it functioning is that when setting up a task, the
user indicated whether or that task is depedant on the completion of the
task above it.  If a link to the To-Do database is present, the link is not
"activated" until the status of the item above it in Shadow is marked as
"complete".  At that point, the link become active and the item
automatically shows-up in the To-Do list.

This functionality should be extended so that if an item is changed, any
items below it that are dependant on completion are changed as well.  In
other words, if I mark a preceding task as complete, then change it back to
incomplete, the linked task below it, that is dependant on its completion
drops back out of the To-Do list.

Finally, a verification needs to be established so that deleting a task
which has other tasks dependant upon it asks the user if they wish to also
delete the other tasks that were dependant upon it, or only the task in
question, thereby removing the dependancies, but keeping the tasks
themselves.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Mitchell
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Project management question...


      OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
shadow-discuss :)

      Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
have preceeding items checked. So if you had:

X      step 1 (checked)
X      step 2 (checked)
_      step 3
_      step 4

      Then you activate the filter, it'd show:

X      step 1
X      step 2
_      step 3

      (step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)
2782

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:56pm
Subject: RE: Launching from within the Palm Desktop

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> I would adore that functionality.  Why clutter up your desktop and your
> start menu if that's not necessary-- all those extra icons take up memory.

	Memory isn't taken or relevant here. A Start menu icon is also
required at minimum. Its a PD plugin button that is optional. (ie:
Especially for those who do not use Palm Desktop, or want to launch it
just to launch Shadow Desktop). In either cae, Shadow Desktopw ill not
launch inside of Palm Desktop.. any button inside of PD would just be a
quick way to launch Shadow Desktop.

> give the choice during install, or just install the icon to the Palm
> Desktop. Most people probably would be able to find the program if they
> wanted to add a desktop shortcut, wouldn't they?

	Nope; most people don't even know what a desktop shortcut is.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2783

From: barnhse@u...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:56pm
Subject: I really like these Shadow polls

 
For what it's worth...I really like these Shadow polls that you have 
been taking on Yahoo. They are cool. Thanks!
2784

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:57pm
Subject: RE: new filter proposal

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> could there be a tiny bit more room between the completion circle, the
> priority, and the text of an item?  I have a real hard time hitting the one
> that I want and it's getting pretty frustrating- checking things off when I
> mean to change the category, so the filter makes them disappear, etc.

	Try using checkboxes instead of checkcircle.s. they're a little
bigger and have a larger tap-zone. I don't want to increase space if I can
avoid it.. since its been the same way since day one and few complaints,
and changing it removes that ever so precious space..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2785

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
I think this is too much automation, and takes too much for granted. How
often do you get a project plan 100% correct from the beginning?  And what
about simultaneous actions? It is now very easy to only link the next
actions to ToDo, and then use ToDo as your flat view. when the ToDo is
checked off it's time to review your plan, and create a new link if
appropriate. I think this "fuzzy logic" and excess automation is one of the
big reasons people leave LB for ShadowPlan. This is a remarkably flexible
app, I would like it to stay that way. Just my .02.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   


Jeff:

I too think that adding this feature would be very useful...  It's one of
the things I really liked about Life Balance.

The filtered view is a nice option, because you can opt to see your entire
project, or only the next action item pending, which is dependant on the
item above it being completed.

Another alternative, although probably much more difficult to program,
would
be to add the ability to have this functionality extended to the To-Do
links.  The way I see it functioning is that when setting up a task, the
user indicated whether or that task is depedant on the completion of the
task above it.  If a link to the To-Do database is present, the link is not
"activated" until the status of the item above it in Shadow is marked as
"complete".  At that point, the link become active and the item
automatically shows-up in the To-Do list.

This functionality should be extended so that if an item is changed, any
items below it that are dependant on completion are changed as well.  In
other words, if I mark a preceding task as complete, then change it back to
incomplete, the linked task below it, that is dependant on its completion
drops back out of the To-Do list.

Finally, a verification needs to be established so that deleting a task
which has other tasks dependant upon it asks the user if they wish to also
delete the other tasks that were dependant upon it, or only the task in
question, thereby removing the dependancies, but keeping the tasks
themselves.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Mitchell
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Project management question...


      OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
shadow-discuss :)

      Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items that
have preceeding items checked. So if you had:

X      step 1 (checked)
X      step 2 (checked)
_      step 3
_      step 4

      Then you activate the filter, it'd show:

X      step 1
X      step 2
_      step 3

      (step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)





To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2786

From: tormod.halvorsen@s...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:17pm
Subject: RE: new filter proposal

 
>X	step 1
		>X	step 2
		>_	step 3
		>_	step 4
		>
		>	Activate the filter and see only:
		>
		>_	step 3

		>A nicely compressed and tight display. Check step 3, and suddenly
		>step 4 would be shown instead.


This is good - I can use that. It's something I used a little in LifeBalance earlier, it was actually quite useful.


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
2787

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, Alan wrote:

> The filtered view is a nice option, because you can opt to see your entire
> project, or only the next action item pending, which is dependant on the
> item above it being completed.

	Put it into alpha just now :)

> Another alternative, although probably much more difficult to program, would
> be to add the ability to have this functionality extended to the To-Do
> links.  The way I see it functioning is that when setting up a task, the
> user indicated whether or that task is depedant on the completion of the
> task above it.  If a link to the To-Do database is present, the link is not
> "activated" until the status of the item above it in Shadow is marked as
> "complete".  At that point, the link become active and the item
> automatically shows-up in the To-Do list.

	This is a tough one. ie: If you check an item in Shadow, then the
next unchecked item coudl be linked. If checked outside of shadow, we have
to do the same (ugh). Its possible, but may seem like too much magic, and
it would not happen until you load Shadow. (ie: If you check a todo,
Shadow cannotreact to it.. you're still in ToDo. So you would have to
check the todo, then open Shadow in that list, then go back to todo, to
have the new item show up. Ugly)

> This functionality should be extended so that if an item is changed, any
> items below it that are dependant on completion are changed as well.  In
> other words, if I mark a preceding task as complete, then change it back to
> incomplete, the linked task below it, that is dependant on its completion
> drops back out of the To-Do list.

	*ugh* :P  Its possible, but may confuse the heck out of people.

> Finally, a verification needs to be established so that deleting a task
> which has other tasks dependant upon it asks the user if they wish to also
> delete the other tasks that were dependant upon it, or only the task in
> question, thereby removing the dependancies, but keeping the tasks
> themselves.

	Dependencies is the real question. I've always called Shadow a
"Task Manager" since it doesn't model dependancies. (By definition, no
palm application is a Project Managerment application in my view). ie: The
above all assumes that items 1, 2, 3 and dependant because they follow
each other or are children of each other. What if you want 1, A, 2, and 1
and 2 are codependant, but not A? 

	This breaks into whole new territory. I may have to write a whole
separate program to handle this, or a big plugin module..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2788

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: RE: Project management question...

 
But the key here is that Jeff is talking about implementing a new kind of
filter, not changing the basic way in which the program works. If you want
to use the new filter great, but if you don't, you'll never notice it.  I
personally have always wanted something like LifeBalance, but more under my
control, and I think this new filter plan would do it.

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----

I think this is too much automation, and takes too much for granted. How
often do you get a project plan 100% correct from the beginning?  And what
about simultaneous actions? It is now very easy to only link the next
actions to ToDo, and then use ToDo as your flat view. when the ToDo is
checked off it's time to review your plan, and create a new link if
appropriate. I think this "fuzzy logic" and excess automation is one of the
big reasons people leave LB for ShadowPlan. This is a remarkably flexible
app, I would like it to stay that way. Just my .02.

Scott
2789

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:23pm
Subject: RE: Launching from within the Palm Desktop

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]

> In either cae, Shadow Desktopw ill not
>launch inside of Palm Desktop.. any button inside of PD would just be a
>quick way to launch Shadow Desktop.

I know-- that's exactly what I'm asking for. HanDBase and DayNotez already
do this, and it's very handy.

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
2790

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:35pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
I really agree with this. Almost all of my projects need "re-org" as 
I go through them when it comes to how it actually gets down. One of 
the best advantages of NOT hiding stuff (I know, just don't use the 
filter -- I won't) is that reading over the mess reminds me 
of "what's missing" - perhaps the most important question in project 
management.

Bruce

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> I think this is too much automation, and takes too much for 
granted. How
> often do you get a project plan 100% correct from the beginning?  
And what
> about simultaneous actions? It is now very easy to only link the 
next
> actions to ToDo, and then use ToDo as your flat view. when the 
ToDo is
> checked off it's time to review your plan, and create a new link if
> appropriate. I think this "fuzzy logic" and excess automation is 
one of the
> big reasons people leave LB for ShadowPlan. This is a remarkably 
flexible
> app, I would like it to stay that way. Just my .02.
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
>                                                                    
                                                
>                                                                    
                                                
>                                                                    
                                                
> 
> 
> Jeff:
> 
> I too think that adding this feature would be very useful...  It's 
one of
> the things I really liked about Life Balance.
> 
> The filtered view is a nice option, because you can opt to see 
your entire
> project, or only the next action item pending, which is dependant 
on the
> item above it being completed.
> 
> Another alternative, although probably much more difficult to 
program,
> would
> be to add the ability to have this functionality extended to the 
To-Do
> links.  The way I see it functioning is that when setting up a 
task, the
> user indicated whether or that task is depedant on the completion 
of the
> task above it.  If a link to the To-Do database is present, the 
link is not
> "activated" until the status of the item above it in Shadow is 
marked as
> "complete".  At that point, the link become active and the item
> automatically shows-up in the To-Do list.
> 
> This functionality should be extended so that if an item is 
changed, any
> items below it that are dependant on completion are changed as 
well.  In
> other words, if I mark a preceding task as complete, then change 
it back to
> incomplete, the linked task below it, that is dependant on its 
completion
> drops back out of the To-Do list.
> 
> Finally, a verification needs to be established so that deleting a 
task
> which has other tasks dependant upon it asks the user if they wish 
to also
> delete the other tasks that were dependant upon it, or only the 
task in
> question, thereby removing the dependancies, but keeping the tasks
> themselves.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Mitchell
> To: shadow-discuss@y...
> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 8:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Project management question...
> 
> 
>       OKay, I'm tired again, didnt' see you were already in
> shadow-discuss :)
> 
>       Everyone else.. what about this filter idea? Select items 
that
> have preceeding items checked. So if you had:
> 
> X      step 1 (checked)
> X      step 2 (checked)
> _      step 3
> _      step 4
> 
>       Then you activate the filter, it'd show:
> 
> X      step 1
> X      step 2
> _      step 3
> 
>       (step 4 is hidden since it has one previous incomplete item)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2791

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 3:41pm
Subject: RE: Project management question...

 
Jen,
I agree, the filter is fine. What concerned me was all the automation that
Alan was brainstorming.


                                                                                                                   
                    "PocketGoddes                                                                                  
                    s"                   To:     <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>                                  
                    <jen@p...        cc:                                                                       
                    ddess.com>           Subject:     RE: [shadow-discuss] Project management question...          
                                                                                                                   
                    11/15/2001                                                                                     
                    09:20 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




But the key here is that Jeff is talking about implementing a new kind of
filter, not changing the basic way in which the program works. If you want
to use the new filter great, but if you don't, you'll never notice it.  I
personally have always wanted something like LifeBalance, but more under my
control, and I think this new filter plan would do it.

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----

I think this is too much automation, and takes too much for granted. How
often do you get a project plan 100% correct from the beginning?  And what
about simultaneous actions? It is now very easy to only link the next
actions to ToDo, and then use ToDo as your flat view. when the ToDo is
checked off it's time to review your plan, and create a new link if
appropriate. I think this "fuzzy logic" and excess automation is one of the
big reasons people leave LB for ShadowPlan. This is a remarkably flexible
app, I would like it to stay that way. Just my .02.

Scott




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2792

From: Alan  <as265@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:10pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
First of all, you don't leave Shadow Plan for Life Balance.  They are two
completely different applications.  Life Balance is not a project
managment/outliner app.

Secondly, using this type of filter is not mandatory, in fact, SP has many
features that I don't currently use, but others do!  No one is forced to use
this filter if they don't believe that it has utility for them

----- Original Message -----
From: smasters@a...
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Project management question...

I think this is too much automation, and takes too much for granted. How
often do you get a project plan 100% correct from the beginning?  And what
about simultaneous actions? It is now very easy to only link the next
actions to ToDo, and then use ToDo as your flat view. when the ToDo is
checked off it's time to review your plan, and create a new link if
appropriate. I think this "fuzzy logic" and excess automation is one of the
big reasons people leave LB for ShadowPlan. This is a remarkably flexible
app, I would like it to stay that way. Just my .02.
2793

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Suggestions

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 mandora@a... wrote:

> I assume that the desktop is in an early stage of development and 
> open for relatively major enhancements so here goes for your 
> consideration and comment by my user colleagues...

	Sure is. Shadow Plan on the HH is a very mature product, and is
still open to suggestions :)

> I like the concept of being able to see the details of a list on the 
> desktop without having to open a menu or drill-down to the details, 
> but I would most definitely give this up to gain "in place" editing 
> of text in the List Panel. Editing in the detail panel is not 

	There will at least be title in-place editting in the list
panel. ie: Click to drop a cursor and type away.

> intuitive and its means a lot of mouse movement. More importantly, it 
> does not allow for "in place" promotion or demotion of items or 
> select-and-drag moving of items within an outline - all features that 

	Promote/demote via drag and drop and button bar is coming.

> I really like the New Item and New Child buttons. Functionality could 
> be enhanced if these commands were put on a right-click menu (and/or 
> keyboard equivalent) along with other editing commands and possibly 

	Right-click menus may come eventually, but they are the last
resort for any self respecting application. (ie: Hidden menus are to be
avoided at all costs, since no one knows they exist unless they just try
it, though nowadays they are becoming pretty common.) If they work for
experts and theres no better way, they'll come for sure.

> an undo command in the List View? I would also like to see right 

	Undo may be awhile; its a very rough thing to implement and I just
don't have as much time as I woudl like :/

> click access to items in the details Panel. Right-click access to 
> editing and details functions would be an efficient and effective way 
> to manage lists.

	What function would right click in the details panel do?

> The delete feature with the highlighting seems cumbersome. I would 
> also prefer an undo feature and dispensing with the delete 
> confirmation dialog box.

	I may remove the alert box so that deletion just happens. (since
undelete is readily available). Undelete is not the reverese of delete,
however, so the alert is there now (ie: Delete deletes all children.
Undelete does not undelete all children.)

> I work with about 60+ lists. It would be helpful to have a standard 
> maximize button in the upper right corner of the List View. 
> Currently, I have to drag the window to the upper left and drag the 
> lower right corner down to seem my lists without scrolling.

	I'll check; a maximize button should be there. If it snot, its an
omission by mistake :)

> The ShadP file prefix takes up a lot of space. I assume the prefix is 
> needed but could it be shorted to SP and four more character spaces 
> freed up for file name?

	Its always been ShadP-, so shortening it would be a pain for
anyone whose already been using the application. The "-" is specifically
reserved, as it can be changed to hold categories or the like. The Shad is
there to suggest which program owns the file and to avoid filename
collisions (which can really mess people up). The P is reserved since
there are other palnned Shadow variants. And in the end, its a few
characters and no one has to type them.

	(ie: On the handheld you never ever see the ShadP- part. On the
desktop its there, but you never have to type it)

> I usually edit multiple lists on the desktop in a given session. It 
> would be helpful to go to the File Selector window from the List View 
> rather than the initial screen. This could be a button and/or right 
> click option in the List View.

	A file menu/button bar item could be added that just invokes the
same routine as in the base window, if thats desirable.

	Anyone else second this?

> A copy and paste function is needed in the List View. An industrial
> strength feature would be a multiclip copy/move capability so that
> scattered items (with or without children) could be collected and
> pasted singlely or as a group in to one or more locations.

	The same clipboard as the handheld has will eventually
come. AFAIK, Shadow is the only program with a useful multi item
clipboard, so industrial strength really means "Shadow strength" *g*

> A filter function would be useful.

	Filter and multi-file filter will be added.

> The menu bar expand-collapse buttons are global - they act on the
> whole list. Sometimes, I would prefer to expand a single item and its
> children within a list. That function could be put on a right click
> menu. That would allow both functionalities to co-exist in an
> intuitive way.

	Agreed. Thats a good use for a right click.. only useful to people
who look for the extra functionality. Not "necessary" per se.

> Is it possible to indicate in details if an item has a link to TODO, 
> Datebook, Address or other function on the Palm, e.g. T, D, A, M, O 
> for other?

	Link Manager also to come.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2794

From: Alan  <as265@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:30pm
Subject: Re: Project management question...

 
Hey - that's what brainstorming is all about, IMHO.  Jeff asks for ideas.
We throw them back.  He determines what is doable and reasonable and what is
pure wishful thinking.  If I limited myself to what I thought was possible,
I'd be in big trouble in many aspects of my life.

----- Original Message -----
From: smasters@a...
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 10:41 AM
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Project management question...



Jen,
I agree, the filter is fine. What concerned me was all the automation that
Alan was brainstorming.
2795

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:37pm
Subject: RE: Project management question...

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> But the key here is that Jeff is talking about implementing a new kind of
> filter, not changing the basic way in which the program works. If you want
> to use the new filter great, but if you don't, you'll never notice it.  I
> personally have always wanted something like LifeBalance, but more under my
> control, and I think this new filter plan would do it.

	The automation stuff the lad mentioned is entirely separate from
the filter; the filter just hides completed items and future items. The
automation is a whole different way of doing things (and also implies
things like automatic progress of %ages and all sorts of crazyness :)

	Its not a bad idea, but it is defintely somethign not for everyone
and thus woudl be a big sdtack of preferences (a new automation panel,
almost), and would only suit project managers and not general outliner
users, etc.

	I'm being debating ways of helping out PM's, and setting
dependancies is one good way, with some automation around them. But we
can't take it too far, because then you start to restrict peoples work
habits.

	I had one cool idea (swiped from a video game, actually, Total
Annihilation ;)

	An optional column that is used for item dependancy grouping. We
coudl define say 5 or 10 group types, signified by an icon. Say, apple,
orange, lemon, like in casino.

	Tap in the (optional) column beside an item and an apple shows
up. Tap again and it becomes an orange. Tap again and it becomes a lemon.

	All apple'd items are related and dependant in shown order. All
orange and lemon items dependant for their same icon type, too. 

	So you would order your items by priority or date or whatever, and
add a group number or group icon. Then sort as you see fit.

	Then groups could be managed, or assumed to be dependant.

	Without breakign things for anyone else.

	Hmmmm... multiple selection options anyone?

	(big can of worms here ;0)

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> ---------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> I think this is too much automation, and takes too much for granted. How
> often do you get a project plan 100% correct from the beginning?  And what
> about simultaneous actions? It is now very easy to only link the next
> actions to ToDo, and then use ToDo as your flat view. when the ToDo is
> checked off it's time to review your plan, and create a new link if
> appropriate. I think this "fuzzy logic" and excess automation is one of the
> big reasons people leave LB for ShadowPlan. This is a remarkably flexible
> app, I would like it to stay that way. Just my .02.
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2796

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 5:20pm
Subject: Requests for added options!

 
Jeff:
Regarding all of these additional options being requested, many that are for power users and not for most that want a simple outline, please keep your simple users in mind.  

One of the reasons I went to Shadow was its simplicity of use compared to all the crap you must read and decide on in the other outlines.  Sort of like how Datebk4 has so many options compared to ActionNames.  If you do allow all these additional options, my request would be to have a separate tab or place on a tab such as Additional Preferences for all these "power" options.  That way most users can merely go to the regular Preferences for simple outlining, and the face of the outline is not cluttered up with power use tools.  Refining those that are there already is fine, but too many options cluttering simple ones makes it no different than much of the stuff already on the market.  I would suggest a focus on getting the Desktop to function closer to the Palm version first!

Thanks for listening, as always.
Kevin

Kevin S. Giberson, Civil Litigation Attorney
Bachan, Skillicorn & Marinovich
18 Alexander Street
Watsonville, CA  95076
(Santa Cruz and Monterey counties)
(831) 722-3861
Fax:  (831) 722-0347
Cellular with voice mailbox:  (831) 419-7551
kevin@g...

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2797

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:05pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
While this ain't a bad idea, I think a filter/highlighter for "due" 
items -- one that captures items that are either due today or 
overdue -- would more useful to more people.  

It kind of bugs me that items that are due today are highlighted, 
while *overdue* items blend in with the crowd.  So if I forget to 
return my library books, there is nothing bugging me to return them 
(if only library books were the most flagrant instance).  

Maybe you could add a feature that berates the user for overdue 
items, or fines them $.10/day....

Juse my too sense.





--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	OKay, I'm extra tired. Two weird posts in a row. I'm waking up
> now.
> 
> 	So, a filter called something like Show "Next Steps".
> 
> 	Given:
> 
> X	step 1
> X	step 2
> _	step 3
> _	step 4
> 
> 	Activate the filter and see only:
> 
> _	step 3
> 
> 	A nicely compressed and tight display. Check step 3, and 
suddenly
> step 4 would be shown instead.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2798

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: new filter proposal

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> While this ain't a bad idea, I think a filter/highlighter for "due" 
> items -- one that captures items that are either due today or 
> overdue -- would more useful to more people.  

	Not already covered?

	Define "due"?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2799

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:23pm
Subject: Suggestion T of C view

 
Jeff,

In the Shadow-Tips group you talked about developing a "table of 
contents" -- basically a master file that links to other files (and 
yet, because of Shadow's flexibility, so much more).  The T of C is a 
great idea.  I had one huge list, and have broken it down and 
developed a toc.  So far so good.

Wouldn't a table of contents *view* be sweet?  Tapping on an item 
would take you right to the file.  And, you could have as many t's of 
c as you like.

Another way to do this would be to give the user control over the 
main screen (the one that lists all the files).  A user could order 
and arrange all of the files in some useful way that looks real 
pretty.  Or useful.

Keep up the good work.
2800

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Suggestion T of C view

 
On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> In the Shadow-Tips group you talked about developing a "table of 
> contents" -- basically a master file that links to other files (and 
> yet, because of Shadow's flexibility, so much more).  The T of C is a 
> great idea.  I had one huge list, and have broken it down and 
> developed a toc.  So far so good.
> 
> Wouldn't a table of contents *view* be sweet?  Tapping on an item 
> would take you right to the file.  And, you could have as many t's of 
> c as you like.

	I've thought about it. ie: Tap on the item anywhere, and it just
goes through the file link. But what if you've linked to all sorts of
things like addresses and such.. nothign stopping you from doing that,
right? So it'd have to be a "if only one link, do it", but then it becomes
an inconsistent interface..

	I may add a "always open in file such and such" option, to make
going to a TOC easy.. but I myself think the recent files popup is good
enough.

> Another way to do this would be to give the user control over the 
> main screen (the one that lists all the files).  A user could order 
> and arrange all of the files in some useful way that looks real 
> pretty.  Or useful.

	This'd be wasteful and a lot of work, I think. ie: Since you can
already do everything you'd ever want in a Shadow list, why recreate all
of that on the main screen? (ie: Re-order implies savin the filename
ordering. Hierarchy? yike!) With a real file, you can filter, sort,
etc.. seems like a superior way to do it.

	We just need to streamline it a little.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2801

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Thu Nov 15, 2001 6:32pm
Subject: Re: new filter proposal

 
Either due today (target), or due before today and not completed.  In 
Shadow, this would be a combination of "today's target items" 
and "incomplete and target overdue."

ToDo+ has a "due" filter.  That and the "radar" (due in the next 7 
days or undated) are pretty nifty.  I think you mentioned once that 
you were considering a "radar" filter.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:
> 
> > While this ain't a bad idea, I think a filter/highlighter 
for "due" 
> > items -- one that captures items that are either due today or 
> > overdue -- would more useful to more people.  
> 
> 	Not already covered?
> 
> 	Define "due"?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
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