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| 2601 |
From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags.
|
| |
Jeff,
I agree that we need to keep the concept of categories and tags separate.
For GtD, I think of categories for "contexts" (@phone, @ computer, etc.),
while tags would be more for resources (people, equipment, etc). Categories
are task specific and carry over to the other apps, while tags are another
way of grouping, and as such should remain in Shadow.
I am still using Shadow as my organizing/planning/project mgmt tool, while
datebook and todo remain as my view of the "hard landscape" and task lists.
Does this make sense?
Scott
Jeff Mitchell
<support@s... To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
eton.org> cc:
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Tags.
11/06/2001
10:04 AM
Please
respond to
shadow-discus
s
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:
> Jeff -- I would like multiple tagging (if they replace category, it
> HAS to be multiple, or nothing is gained) and global is fine.
Nothing is gained? 100 tags is way better than 15 categories ;)
> However, my biggie is that the tags go with the links. I want to
> know where the todo or appt came from without the hassle of the
> ineffective back link functions available now. Nothing works "well"
> right now.
The problem with links is that having 100 tags and only 15 todo
categories.. how do you map the tags to todo categories? Do I need to the
tag editor to allow you to set todo categories? Thats a pain in the butt
;)
> Others have talked about "collecting" next action items (I'm also
> using GThD) but, for me, linking to DateBk already gives me that.
> But I need to know what (project, list, category, pick one) the item
> comes from. (Neal - TLI problem).
Attaching info to todo and datebook items is hard (because of
those programs, not because of Shadow). I can stick info into the notes
part of those objects, but I really dislike poluting another apps space
like that. I find it very annoying to have notes in every other datebook
item, by Action Names or DB4, and having those krufty notes show up in
Shadow due to links :/
> on a cross application basis are clear. I would want to be able to
> see the tags in the "other" app after a linked item was set up.
Setting tags outside of Shadow would be very difficult because
those apps don't know about anymore more than basic things. ie: Those apps
are the limiting factor :P (ie: I have to support *datebook*, since 90% of
people use it and not AN or DB4. And supporting DB4 icons makes means I
also have to support AN icons, and then every other datebook manager :P)
I could have a search and rwplace thing so that if you put
@(sometext)@ into a title, it would be removed by Shadow during link
comparison, and the sometext searched for as a tag and assigned. But that
sounds painfull :P
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| 2602 |
From: stimm@r...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:14pm
Subject: Re: Tags.
|
| |
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:
>
> And supporting DB4 icons makes means I
> also have to support AN icons, and then every other datebook
manager :P)
Actually, the new beta of DateBk4 uses ActionNames icons. :) Score
one for standardization!
BTW, tags sound really cool. I could easily see using them for
action item context (places) in GTD...among other things.
Of course, I'll still use LifeBalance for my daily todo
management. :) I use Shadow to hold my project information, and then
I export project items to my ToDo List to be imported into my in-
basket in LifeBalance which then keeps them nice and sync'd. Any
further integration you could arrange with LifeBalance would *rock*.
- Sean T.
Another satisfied customer (and yet never satisfied) :)
|
| 2603 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags.
|
| |
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:
> I agree that we need to keep the concept of categories and tags separate.
> For GtD, I think of categories for "contexts" (@phone, @ computer, etc.),
> while tags would be more for resources (people, equipment, etc). Categories
> are task specific and carry over to the other apps, while tags are another
> way of grouping, and as such should remain in Shadow.
Tags have all the abilities and uses of categories. As such, you
can use tags as categories or resources. Your choice. Thats why you get to
have lots of them, since they will be used for many things, and also so
you can apply higher granularity and put multiple lower level tags on each
item. (Thats the goal, anyway)
> I am still using Shadow as my organizing/planning/project mgmt tool, while
> datebook and todo remain as my view of the "hard landscape" and task lists.
> Does this make sense?
Sure; many many people (including me) do that very same thing. I
keep almost everything in Shadow (duh ;), and link out to ToDo or Datebook
very time pending events.
The hardest thing I find is.... when to look at Shadow and when to
look at ToDo. (ie: I'm not got myself into the havbit of checking my todos
every morning or few hours. I usually chekc ToDo every 2-3 days, and
Shadow every day. It needs to be reversed, but since I develop Shadow it
throws me off and I end up in Shadow 99% of the time ;)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2604 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags.
|
| |
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 stimm@r... wrote:
> > And supporting DB4 icons makes means I
> > also have to support AN icons, and then every other datebook
> manager :P)
>
> Actually, the new beta of DateBk4 uses ActionNames icons. :) Score
> one for standardization!
A shame; it should've gone the other way I think ;)
> Of course, I'll still use LifeBalance for my daily todo
> management. :) I use Shadow to hold my project information, and then
> I export project items to my ToDo List to be imported into my in-
> basket in LifeBalance which then keeps them nice and sync'd. Any
> further integration you could arrange with LifeBalance would *rock*.
I don't know much about LB, and they certainly do not publish
their data formats like I do, so not much I can do there.
I do find it interesting that peopel use multiple outliners at the
same time.
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2605 |
From: PocketGoddess <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:29pm
Subject: RE: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
Well, couldn't you make that an option the user could turn off if they
wanted, like the mini-edit?
Also, it would be really nice if you could have todo links automatically
take the category of the parent. In other words, I have a big, long project
list, with several main headings like Classes, Site (PocketGoddess), Work,
Money, etc. It would be grand if I could set the todo link category for
each of the main headings and have all of the children follow that setting--
kinda like what happens if you break that list up into smaller lists by main
heading and set the default to do category. I just don't want to split my
list up that way.
Does that make any sense?
Jen
---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:58 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] ToDo Linking Request
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned in
> the past is a dangerous thing.
>
> I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever the
> todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in Link
Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a link
(or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the list
default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T] its
because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and managage
todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people would
get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want specific
category management so have to use link manager to control category, or
have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while item
sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you wanted,
and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
> In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who knows.
Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| 2606 |
From: Griff <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:29pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
Hmm, I see your point about the quick checking of items to send to
the todo list. Would it be possible to add this as a preference?
Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works?
Or, the idea of adding it to the link column would work. It'd be
great to have it so that you hit the arrow, chose "Link to Todo", and
then the category listing would pop up.
I'd like to not have to check the todo box, and then go to the link
column and choose category. Would rather just do everything from the
link arrow.
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
>
> > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned
in
> > the past is a dangerous thing.
> >
> > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever
the
> > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
>
> This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in
Link
> Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a
link
> (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the
list
> default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T]
its
> because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and
managage
> todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
>
> However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people
would
> get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want
specific
> category management so have to use link manager to control
category, or
> have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while
item
> sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
> link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you
wanted,
> and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
>
> > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who
knows.
>
> Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2607 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:37pm
Subject: RE: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:
> Well, couldn't you make that an option the user could turn off if they
> wanted, like the mini-edit?
Prefs are always possible, but we have a lot of them. I always
like to avoid adding more unless necessary. (ie: I get a lot of people
emailing me trying to figure out why things work one way for one guy,
another for them, etc. Prefs confuse a lot of people)
> Also, it would be really nice if you could have todo links
> automatically take the category of the parent. In other words, I have
> a big, long project list, with several main headings like Classes,
> Site (PocketGoddess), Work, Money, etc. It would be grand if I could
> set the todo link category for each of the main headings and have all
> of the children follow that setting-- kinda like what happens if you
> break that list up into smaller lists by main heading and set the
> default to do category. I just don't want to split my list up that
> way.
I may be adding that; its been in my plan for awhile. "todo
category inheritance".
jeff
> Does that make any sense?
>
>
> Jen
>
> ---------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:58 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] ToDo Linking Request
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
>
> > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned in
> > the past is a dangerous thing.
> >
> > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever the
> > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
>
> This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in Link
> Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a link
> (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the list
> default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T] its
> because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and managage
> todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
>
> However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people would
> get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want specific
> category management so have to use link manager to control category, or
> have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while item
> sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
> link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you wanted,
> and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
>
> > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who knows.
>
> Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2608 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
OKay, so could perhaps add a "ToDo category" option to the link
arrow popup, if the item has a todo link. (ie: You'd tap the link arrow
twice, one to set up the link, one to set up the category if different
than default).
Possible.
jeff
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> Hmm, I see your point about the quick checking of items to send to
> the todo list. Would it be possible to add this as a preference?
> Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works?
>
> Or, the idea of adding it to the link column would work. It'd be
> great to have it so that you hit the arrow, chose "Link to Todo", and
> then the category listing would pop up.
>
> I'd like to not have to check the todo box, and then go to the link
> column and choose category. Would rather just do everything from the
> link arrow.
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> >
> > > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned
> in
> > > the past is a dangerous thing.
> > >
> > > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever
> the
> > > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
> >
> > This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in
> Link
> > Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a
> link
> > (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the
> list
> > default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T]
> its
> > because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and
> managage
> > todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
> >
> > However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people
> would
> > get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want
> specific
> > category management so have to use link manager to control
> category, or
> > have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while
> item
> > sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
> > link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you
> wanted,
> > and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> > category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
> >
> > > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who
> knows.
> >
> > Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2609 |
From: jreyes1958@y...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Lite?
|
| |
Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
something someone wants that is in the other version.
have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
> I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> reduced size, limited distribution.
>
> Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
(pretty),
> and take away a bunch of stuff.
>
> Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make Shadow..
> Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
think
> it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2610 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 5:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow Lite?
|
| |
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:
> Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
> worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
> would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
> plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
> something someone wants that is in the other version.
I may have to release a one-time cheap version. If so, I may make
a lite version, since theres no way someone gets the full shbang if
they're only paying a couple bucks :P Such a release would not be released
online, as its not the way I wish to do business.
jeff
> have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> > I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> > reduced size, limited distribution.
> >
> > Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> > and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
> (pretty),
> > and take away a bunch of stuff.
> >
> > Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make Shadow..
> > Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
> think
> > it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2611 |
From: lsuprise@i...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 5:58pm
Subject: Re: OT: Tags, and More Tags
|
| |
Griff,
I'd like to comment on what you said about rarely using target
dates "because they are reserved for items in the 'hard landscape.'"
As you know, there's a difference between needing to do something ON
a particular date (for example, a doctor's appointment on 11/12/2001)
and needing to do something BY a particular date (for example, clean
up the apartment before my parents get here on 11/12/2001).
The difference is that something that needs to be done on a
particular date, as in the example above of the doctor's appointment,
is not actionable now. If I need to do something before my doctor's
appointment in order to prepare for it, then that something would be
a different item on the appropriate "To Do" list, but the doctor's
appointment itself is nothing I can do anything about right now; it
must be done only on the date the appointment is scheduled for,
11/12/2001, so it's part of the hard landscape of that day and
therefore it belongs on the Calendar.
However, my other example of needing to clean up the apartment before
my parents get here on 11/12/2001 is a perfect example of a "To Do"
item with a target date because, completely unlike the doctor's
appointment, it's actionable right now. My parent's visit itself is
an entry on the Calendar because the visit itself is not actionable
until then, but the cleaning of the apartment is an entry on my "To
Do" list because it's actionable now.
How do you distinguish the items on your Calendar that are actionable
right now from those that are not?
Len
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Griff" <keith@t...> wrote:
> Another concern
> I have is with target dates....I very rarely use any target dates
as
> those are reserved for items in the "hard landscape". Things that
> must be done on a certain date.
|
| 2612 |
From: Griff <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 6:47pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
Actually, I'd hit the arrow pop up regardless if there is an existing
link. Then I'd tap something like "ToDo Link", then the popup list
would let me tap the category. This would create the todo link and
set the category in one step...I think that'd be most useful.
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
> OKay, so could perhaps add a "ToDo category" option to the
link
> arrow popup, if the item has a todo link. (ie: You'd tap the link
arrow
> twice, one to set up the link, one to set up the category if
different
> than default).
>
> Possible.
>
> jeff
>
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
>
> > Hmm, I see your point about the quick checking of items to send
to
> > the todo list. Would it be possible to add this as a preference?
> > Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works?
> >
> > Or, the idea of adding it to the link column would work. It'd be
> > great to have it so that you hit the arrow, chose "Link to Todo",
and
> > then the category listing would pop up.
> >
> > I'd like to not have to check the todo box, and then go to the
link
> > column and choose category. Would rather just do everything from
the
> > link arrow.
> >
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've
mentioned
> > in
> > > > the past is a dangerous thing.
> > > >
> > > > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list
whenever
> > the
> > > > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
> > >
> > > This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in
> > Link
> > > Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to
add a
> > link
> > > (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to
the
> > list
> > > default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using
[T]
> > its
> > > because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and
> > managage
> > > todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
> > >
> > > However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people
> > would
> > > get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want
> > specific
> > > category management so have to use link manager to control
> > category, or
> > > have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager
while
> > item
> > > sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in
the
> > > link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if
you
> > wanted,
> > > and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> > > category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
> > >
> > > > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but
who
> > knows.
> > >
> > > Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
> > >
> > > jeff
> > >
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your
own
> > micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I
mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate
he
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2613 |
From: Griff <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 6:57pm
Subject: Re: OT: Tags, and More Tags
|
| |
In this case all items not on the calendar are actionable now. Tere
should never be anything in the todo list that isn't actionable now,
as it would just clutter the list.
I don't recall seeing an example similar to the "clean by a certain
date" in the GTD book, then again, that's why I am rereading it.
For your example though I would actually create a mini-project with
the various actionable steps. The list might contain: clean bathroom,
vacuum, dust, mop floors, remove clutter from guest room, wash guest
room sheets, and etc.
Then each of those items would become actionable one after another.
Let's say you put remove clutter in your @home list. Once that is
done you would go back and make wash sheets actionable, and so on.
Yes there is a date that all that needs to be done by...but using
this method you should be there well in advance of the date.
For items that you want to start after a certain time, you wouldn't
begin making them actionable until the weekly review time that falls
closest.
For example this Friday I might make Dust and Vacuum actionable, as
that is something I'd want to do at the last minute.
My idea is that the system of making things actionable, without
dates, allows you to get them done far ahead of time...so that you
don't need to worry about specific dates.
The only items that make it to my todo list are actionable right now.
Items that are due a certain date, or are an appointment are put in
the calendar. One such item might be to reboot a server on a Friday
evening at 7pm, I can't do it any other time do to user constraints.
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., lsuprise@i... wrote:
> Griff,
>
> I'd like to comment on what you said about rarely using target
> dates "because they are reserved for items in the 'hard
landscape.'"
>
> As you know, there's a difference between needing to do something
ON
> a particular date (for example, a doctor's appointment on
11/12/2001)
> and needing to do something BY a particular date (for example,
clean
> up the apartment before my parents get here on 11/12/2001).
>
> The difference is that something that needs to be done on a
> particular date, as in the example above of the doctor's
appointment,
> is not actionable now. If I need to do something before my
doctor's
> appointment in order to prepare for it, then that something would
be
> a different item on the appropriate "To Do" list, but the doctor's
> appointment itself is nothing I can do anything about right now; it
> must be done only on the date the appointment is scheduled for,
> 11/12/2001, so it's part of the hard landscape of that day and
> therefore it belongs on the Calendar.
>
> However, my other example of needing to clean up the apartment
before
> my parents get here on 11/12/2001 is a perfect example of a "To Do"
> item with a target date because, completely unlike the doctor's
> appointment, it's actionable right now. My parent's visit itself
is
> an entry on the Calendar because the visit itself is not actionable
> until then, but the cleaning of the apartment is an entry on my "To
> Do" list because it's actionable now.
>
> How do you distinguish the items on your Calendar that are
actionable
> right now from those that are not?
>
> Len
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Griff" <keith@t...> wrote:
> > Another concern
> > I have is with target dates....I very rarely use any target dates
> as
> > those are reserved for items in the "hard landscape". Things that
> > must be done on a certain date.
|
| 2614 |
From: stimm@r...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 7:54pm
Subject: Re: Tags.
|
| |
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > Of course, I'll still use LifeBalance for my daily todo
> > management. :) I use Shadow to hold my project information, and
then
> > I export project items to my ToDo List to be imported into my in-
> > basket in LifeBalance which then keeps them nice and sync'd.
Any
> > further integration you could arrange with LifeBalance would
*rock*.
>
> I don't know much about LB, and they certainly do not publish
> their data formats like I do, so not much I can do there.
Yes, I was afraid of that. It's a great product (as is Shadow), but
they seem far too concerned about keeping a tight hold on their data
formats. Oh well...doesn't hurt to ask. :)
>
> I do find it interesting that peopel use multiple outliners
at the
> same time.
Since you don't know much about LifeBalance, that might explain the
confusion. :) I'll try and help explain the difference. I use
Shadow for all kinds of lists and outlines (ie. project information,
document outlining, someday/maybe list, etc...) LifeBalance is
strictly for action items. Since I use it with the GTD methodology,
it functions as my inbox and task management application. I have a
set of top-level categories that I assign a percentage of importance
to my life as a whole (my "life balance"), and then all of my tasks
fall somewhere under each of those categories and subcategories.
Each task is assigned an importance relative to the category or
subcategory it's contained by, and each task has a "place" where it
can occur as well as a timeframe in which it can occur (for tasks
affected by business hours, etc).
Once my tasks are outlined, all of my activity occurs in LB's Todo
List. I choose my context or place (ie. "At Home", "At Office", "At
Computer", etc), and it uses some sort of fuzzy logic to list and
prioritize the tasks that need to occur in that context based on the
importance, priorities, timeframe, etc. that I assigned to each task
and major life category. It is *not* for general outline use, and
that is not it's purpose. It's purpose is to help make sure that I
focus on all areas of my life, so I don't find myself doing
everything from my "Work" top-level item and neglecting "Personal
Improvement" or "Family". It's incredibly cool...I just wish they
were a little more open with the format. (I'd love to be able to
play around with XML/XSL like I can with Shadow.) :)
What's great about using it with Shadow is that I can use Shadow to
keep the bigger picture for each project I'm involved in (per GTD
project definition) and use the automatic todo import/export to keep
tasks synchronized between Shadow and LifeBalance (ie. if I check a
task off in Shadow, it gets checked off in LifeBalance and vice-
versa).
Hopefully my explanation was reasonably clear...I kind of feel like
I'm trying to explain the Matrix. No one can be told what it
is...you have to see it for yourself. :)
- Sean T.
|
| 2615 |
From: jacques@t...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 9:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
Le 6 Nov 2001, à 16:29, Griff a écrit:
> Would it be possible to add this as a preference?
> Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works?
And with no further pref :
a tap -> the default todo cat
a tap'n hold -> open the cat popup ?
Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr
|
| 2616 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jacques@t... wrote:
> > Would it be possible to add this as a preference?
> > Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works?
>
> And with no further pref :
>
> a tap -> the default todo cat
> a tap'n hold -> open the cat popup ?
I have always avoided tap-and-hold since it is a "hidden UI",
which means very few will ever use it. But it is an interesting idea..
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2617 |
From: Randy Willard <randywillard@h...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags, and More Tags
|
| |
My "Next Actions" aren't always tomorrow or they may not have a definite
day. I'd like to be able to go thru my lists, mark the next actions and
then filter them out so I don't have to search thru multiple projects/lists
to find them. I don't like linking to ToDo until I have a actual date I
want the task done. It makes me crazy to see ToDos that don't HAVE to be done.
It would also make reviewing easier.
Yep, Tags would be a wonderful addition, but Jeff, didn't you say you were
going to get some rest? I sense the creative fire building again.....
Randy
At 03:14 PM 11/6/01 +0000, you wrote:
>I don't understand your comment on tags being useful for GTD. What
>exactly would be in the new list? I am thinking perhaps you are
>suggesting one could scan all lists for a tag @Phone, and then create
>an @Phone list, but could be wrong.
>
>I am curious about this as in my current methodology I wouldn't use
>tags in the least. I see many people pro-tag, and I just don't
>understand why.
>
>My methodolgy in a nutshell is that as an action item pops up I link
>it to the todo database in the appropriate "@" category. I then use
>DB4 to display different todo categories based on context (where I
>am). So for me tags wouldn't help...but maybe I am missing
>something...
|
| 2618 |
From: scotthutchins@y...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Tags.
|
| |
I often peek at this newsgroup but rarely post...
I have to say, tags would be HUGE! It would make sorting/viewing
much easier. I'd like that functionality much more than a desktop
version.
Just my 2 cents.
|
| 2619 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags, and More Tags
|
| |
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Randy Willard wrote:
> Yep, Tags would be a wonderful addition, but Jeff, didn't you say you were
> going to get some rest? I sense the creative fire building again.....
heh. The ideas never stop (oh how sometimes they should ;), but I
am trying to avoid hunkering down to a tonne of work. The sort of person I
am sucks me into work far too easily, so I'm resisting :P
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2620 |
From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 11:41pm
Subject: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement
|
| |
Jeff:
I really like the MiniEditor functionality. However, moving from
item to item is a bit cumbersome. I would like to suggest to
enhancements.
1) Have you considered allowing the MiniEditor to "float" from item
to item? This would enhance input speed when using the minieditor.
2) In addition to the "D"(.i.e. Details) icon in the miniEditor, can
you add a icon to take you directly to the "Notes"?
Norman
|
| 2621 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 0:02am
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement
|
| |
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 1) Have you considered allowing the MiniEditor to "float" from item
> to item? This would enhance input speed when using the minieditor.
What do you mean by float? (my mind reader hat is in another suit
;)
> 2) In addition to the "D"(.i.e. Details) icon in the miniEditor, can
> you add a icon to take you directly to the "Notes"?
Space is left for that future button, but it'll be a bit of work.
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2622 |
From: Gary Paulson <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:01am
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?
|
| |
The price for Shadow is low enough now - Just call it Shadow Lite and charge
the same price :)
You say you 'may have to' - guess I cannot figure out what the reason would
be unless it is to give away. And the current unregistered version does
that?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:08 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow Lite?
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:
> Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
> worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
> would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
> plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
> something someone wants that is in the other version.
I may have to release a one-time cheap version. If so, I may make
a lite version, since theres no way someone gets the full shbang if
they're only paying a couple bucks :P Such a release would not be released
online, as its not the way I wish to do business.
jeff
> have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> > I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> > reduced size, limited distribution.
> >
> > Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> > and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
> (pretty),
> > and take away a bunch of stuff.
> >
> > Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make Shadow..
> > Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
> think
> > it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| 2623 |
From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:49am
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement
|
| |
Jeff:
Sorry about being vague. I would like the miniEditor to remain up as
I move from item to item in the view. In other words, a non-modal
miniEditor. When the MiniEditor is shown, I can still tap on a
widget in the miniEditor or use a shortcut to move up/down the
outline. While traversing the list, each item is shown in the
miniEditor. Is this clear?
Norman
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
>
> > 1) Have you considered allowing the MiniEditor to "float" from
item
> > to item? This would enhance input speed when using the
minieditor.
>
> What do you mean by float? (my mind reader hat is in another
suit
> ;)
>
|
| 2624 |
From: Kenneth S. Rhee <polymath@m...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 7:00am
Subject: Re[2]: ToDo Linking Request
|
| |
Check out the latest Stowway keyboard driver!
It now include screen pointer (just like mouse pointer) and additional
features to select graphic boxes (such as Cancel, OK, etc).
Perhaps Jeff can take a sigh of relief!
--
Best regards,
Kenneth mailto:polymath@m...
|
| 2625 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 0:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement
|
| |
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> Sorry about being vague. I would like the miniEditor to remain up as
> I move from item to item in the view. In other words, a non-modal
> miniEditor. When the MiniEditor is shown, I can still tap on a
> widget in the miniEditor or use a shortcut to move up/down the
> outline. While traversing the list, each item is shown in the
> miniEditor. Is this clear?
Hmm. Thought about it briefly, but it woudl likely amount to
making the ME not into a window at all.. just remove the bottom row or two
from the display and replace with the mini editor entry fields. Didnt'
seem like a good trade off (losing a couple of rows). Making the window
non-modal would require that it can float around (since it obscures whats
under it), and that menus and buttons and allt hat stuff works with the ME
around.. which isn't very Palm OS friendly.
You can double tap to bring up the mini editor, if that pref is
set..
Hmm. Have to think about it.
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2626 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:40pm
Subject: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in different
ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new users
(and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general chatter.
The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email backend or
a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top of
email.. nice and simple and personal.
Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often been
tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
"shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, Shadow
with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. But
all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-discuss.
I do not wish to limit shadow-discuss, either. It can keep on as
it is. You can talk about usage ideas here, too, of course, and please
do. But the best of the postings can be forwarded to shadow-users (or
whatever we call it), and voila, a nice running easy to read history. The
keenest of ideas to be swapped in one place. Inappropriate postings can be
deleted.
Because it will be a yahoogroup, it will be instantly familiar to
people, and offer both a web based views and email based views. Post via
web or email, read via web or email. Seems like a good solution to me.
But is it of value?
Will you sign up?
And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big party
with yet another forum to talk about it :)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2627 |
From: PocketGoddess <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:47pm
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
I'd certainly sign up. The GTD_palm forum is nice, but a group that could
discuss it in relation to Shadow would be even better. Not to mention the
ideas we'd gain from people with other time management systems and Palm
applications tied into Shadow.
YahooGroups Rules!!
Jen
---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:40 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes"
List?
Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in different
ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new users
(and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general chatter.
The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email backend or
a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top of
email.. nice and simple and personal.
Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often been
tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
"shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, Shadow
with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. But
all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-discuss.
I do not wish to limit shadow-discuss, either. It can keep on as
it is. You can talk about usage ideas here, too, of course, and please
do. But the best of the postings can be forwarded to shadow-users (or
whatever we call it), and voila, a nice running easy to read history. The
keenest of ideas to be swapped in one place. Inappropriate postings can be
deleted.
Because it will be a yahoogroup, it will be instantly familiar to
people, and offer both a web based views and email based views. Post via
web or email, read via web or email. Seems like a good solution to me.
But is it of value?
Will you sign up?
And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big party
with yet another forum to talk about it :)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| 2628 |
From: as.two.sixty.five <as265@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:04pm
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
Count me in. (No need to quote previous postings.)
_______________________________________________________
Build your own website for free and in minutes at http://ca.geocities.com
|
| 2629 |
From: Ken Gordon <ksg@t...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:24pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
I'd sign up.
--
|
| 2630 |
From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:46pm
Subject: Annoying nags...
|
| |
Hi!
I'm currently evaluating ShadowPlan, and it looks rather nice I must say. I find the 2.0 iteration a major step in the right direction. However, is it really necessary to include that pesky "If you like this software, please register" - message? I mean, I've been using the software only since this morning and it has already nagged me three times. Sure, once a day - that I can accept, but this is a bit much, don't you think? I would actually prefer NOT to see it at all until the last week of my evaluation period - it really gets in the way when I'm trying to mimic how it might work in a production environment.
I don't know if it's only me, but this was a major reason why I thought "oh blast - never freakin' mind then" before deleting my 1.5 trial on the second day. It's every bit as annoying as an endless exit-loop from a porn-site ;-) Needless to say, the software probably didn't get a fair evaluation from me on that occasion.
peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
|
| 2631 |
From: David Keltie <dave@z...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:57pm
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
Yes please!
Dave (a non GtD person)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| 2632 |
From: Ken Scott <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:31pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
I think having a separate shadow-recipe list would be a great idea!
Ken
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>
> Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
> handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in different
> ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
> tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
> shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new users
> (and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
> through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general chatter.
>
> The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
> wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
> system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email backend or
> a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top of
> email.. nice and simple and personal.
>
> Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often been
> tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
> "shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
> USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, Shadow
> with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. But
> all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
> requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-discuss.
>
[snip]
--
><> Ken Scott kscott@p... http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott
This is the day that the Lord has made;
I will rejoice and be glad in it! -- Psalm 118:24
|
| 2633 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Annoying nags...
|
| |
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 Tormod.Halvorsen@s... wrote:
> I'm currently evaluating ShadowPlan, and it looks rather nice I must
> say. I find the 2.0 iteration a major step in the right direction.
> However, is it really necessary to include that pesky "If you like
> this software, please register" - message? I mean, I've been using the
> software only since this morning and it has already nagged me three
Yes it is necessary, and it only nags every 3 or 4 loads, so
you've opened Shadow probably 12 times. Thats pretty busy :) Read below
and you'll find out that I'm actually being pretty good to everyone.
> times. Sure, once a day - that I can accept, but this is a bit much,
> don't you think? I would actually prefer NOT to see it at all until
> the last week of my evaluation period - it really gets in the way when
> I'm trying to mimic how it might work in a production environment.
There is no "evaluation period" per se because having one is
unethical IMHO. (ie: I refuse to cause you data loss; if the app is only
good for 2 weeks or a month, what happens to all the data you've entered
into it after that period expires? Its locked in the app? I don't think
thats ethical. So I let you define your own period, at the price of nags).
I think its the most fair way to let you use an app for a few
weeks without causing you the headaches any other system will cause. IF
you've entered data in for 2 weeks but decide you dislike the app, you're
free to cuty and paste or export it out to another app.
> I don't know if it's only me, but this was a major reason why I
> thought "oh blast - never freakin' mind then" before deleting my 1.5
> trial on the second day. It's every bit as annoying as an endless
> exit-loop from a porn-site ;-) Needless to say, the software probably
> didn't get a fair evaluation from me on that occasion.
I get a lot of compliments about the system; it is pretty non
intrusive (most people don't load the app 15 times a day when evaluating
it ;) and fair, since you get basicly full use of the system as long as
you feel you need to.
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2634 |
From: Gary Paulson <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:46pm
Subject: List | Preferences.- bug
|
| |
Had mentioned before the bug that causes level 4+ auto-numbering to
disappear. Had thought it was the mini-editor checkbox but just figured out
that just going into List | Preferences causes the numbering to disappear.
Found this when I discovered another bug. If you have 'all' selected for the
categories to choose from, select a file, go into List | Preferences, go
back out, then close the file, the file selection menu will now only show
files in the same category as the last file instead of 'all' as it should.
|
| 2635 |
From: Gary Paulson <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:46pm
Subject: Category Choices
|
| |
Just noticed that if you go to change the category from the document
selection screen, one of the choices it lets you change to is 'all'.
Changing the category to 'all' appears to be equivelent to changing it to
'unfiled'
|
| 2636 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:53pm
Subject: Re: List | Preferences.- bug
|
| |
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:
> Had mentioned before the bug that causes level 4+ auto-numbering to
> disappear. Had thought it was the mini-editor checkbox but just figured out
> that just going into List | Preferences causes the numbering to disappear.
> Found this when I discovered another bug. If you have 'all' selected for the
> categories to choose from, select a file, go into List | Preferences, go
> back out, then close the file, the file selection menu will now only show
> files in the same category as the last file instead of 'all' as it should.
Does it "properly" show the new category in the top-right? (ie:
When you open a list, and leave the list, it maybe is simply trying to
return to the category you chose implicitly). If its like this, its always
been like this since day one :)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2637 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:54pm
Subject: Re: Category Choices
|
| |
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:
> Just noticed that if you go to change the category from the document
> selection screen, one of the choices it lets you change to is 'all'.
> Changing the category to 'all' appears to be equivelent to changing it to
> 'unfiled'
I'll have to check, but some versions of the OS do not let you
suppress the All choice, so I may have left it in for all OSes to keep the
code simpler. I'll note it down.
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2638 |
From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:58pm
Subject: RE: Annoying nags...
|
| |
>Yes it is necessary, and it only nags every 3 or 4 loads, so
>you've opened Shadow probably 12 times. Thats pretty busy :)
Well, yes - I am mainly checking out the linking features, so to verify how a linked, newly created ToDo or appointment looks in ActionNames, I tend to switch back and forth a lot. There are quite a few options to be fiddled with, so to understand them fully and use them right, I want to see the same data from "the other side" as well.
>There is no "evaluation period" per se because having one is
>unethical IMHO. (ie: I refuse to cause you data loss; if the app is only
>good for 2 weeks or a month, what happens to all the data you've entered
>into it after that period expires?
Aha - I was unaware of this; I just assumed your software would behave like most others do - expire at T minus 30 days. For me, it would be acceptable to loose a little data if I didn't want to continue using the product - it's a price I'm willing to pay for the great service of having access to a working copy of the software. However, another solution could be that all export functions would still be active after the eval period but new data entry would be locked. However, there are things to be said for an extended period of use too. Sometimes you just don't have the time to explore new software right after installing it and in this respect your solution is quite good. Thanks for the explanation; I'll try to keep my temper whenever the nag-screen appears...
peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| 2639 |
From: jburns8@m...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:59pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
You can count me in.
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
> Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of
their
> handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in
different
> ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
> tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
> shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new
users
> (and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
> through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general
chatter.
>
> The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
> wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
> system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email
backend or
> a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top
of
> email.. nice and simple and personal.
>
> Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often
been
> tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
> "shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
> USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks,
Shadow
> with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it.
But
> all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
> requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-
discuss.
>
> I do not wish to limit shadow-discuss, either. It can keep on
as
> it is. You can talk about usage ideas here, too, of course, and
please
> do. But the best of the postings can be forwarded to shadow-users
(or
> whatever we call it), and voila, a nice running easy to read
history. The
> keenest of ideas to be swapped in one place. Inappropriate postings
can be
> deleted.
>
> Because it will be a yahoogroup, it will be instantly
familiar to
> people, and offer both a web based views and email based views.
Post via
> web or email, read via web or email. Seems like a good solution to
me.
>
> But is it of value?
>
> Will you sign up?
>
> And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big
party
> with yet another forum to talk about it :)
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2640 |
From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:04pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?
|
| |
Jeff,
Just to throw my 2 cents in on this, I'm running Shadow 2.0 on an M100, and
I'm happy with the performance. I show that 2.0 takes up 226K, which is a
lot less than Datebook4 or Franklin Planning System. While it's none of my
business, I don't see why you would need a Shadow Lite either. This is the
last you'll hear from me on the subject, the decision is certainly yours to
make.
Scott
"Gary
Paulson" To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
<gpaulson@o... cc:
.com> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow Lite?
11/06/2001
08:01 PM
Please
respond to
shadow-discus
s
The price for Shadow is low enough now - Just call it Shadow Lite and
charge
the same price :)
You say you 'may have to' - guess I cannot figure out what the reason would
be unless it is to give away. And the current unregistered version does
that?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:08 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow Lite?
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:
> Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
> worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
> would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
> plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
> something someone wants that is in the other version.
I may have to release a one-time cheap version. If so, I may
make
a lite version, since theres no way someone gets the full shbang if
they're only paying a couple bucks :P Such a release would not be released
online, as its not the way I wish to do business.
jeff
> have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> > I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> > reduced size, limited distribution.
> >
> > Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> > and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
> (pretty),
> > and take away a bunch of stuff.
> >
> > Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make
Shadow..
> > Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
> think
> > it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| 2641 |
From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:10pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
At this point I'll sign up for just about anything with Shadow in the name!
Yes, I think this separate group would be nice.
Scott
|
| 2642 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:23pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?
|
| |
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:
> Just to throw my 2 cents in on this, I'm running Shadow 2.0 on an M100, and
> I'm happy with the performance. I show that 2.0 takes up 226K, which is a
Shadow 2.0 takes up 190k; the rest of it is your lists data.
> lot less than Datebook4 or Franklin Planning System. While it's none of my
> business, I don't see why you would need a Shadow Lite either. This is the
> last you'll hear from me on the subject, the decision is certainly yours to
> make.
The "lite" edition will not be released online; its for a limited
private release to a few people for very cheap :P
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2643 |
From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:21pm
Subject: RE: Annoying nags...
|
| |
Tormod,
On the third page of Preferences (under the help tab from the opening
display) there is a box you can check to "return to shadow after go to". So
you can click on the link arrow to go to your ToDo and check it out and
then click the Home silkscreen button to return to Shadow. This may cut
down on the number of times you have to open Shadow. Hope this helps.
From another thread, a Tips group would certainly be a good place for
trial users to go to see the benefits of the software.
Scott
Tormod.Halvor
sen@s... To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
cc:
11/07/2001 Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Annoying nags...
10:58 AM
Please
respond to
shadow-discus
s
>Yes it is necessary, and it only nags every 3 or 4 loads, so
>you've opened Shadow probably 12 times. Thats pretty busy :)
Well, yes - I am mainly checking out the linking features, so to verify how
a linked, newly created ToDo or appointment looks in ActionNames, I tend to
switch back and forth a lot. There are quite a few options to be fiddled
with, so to understand them fully and use them right, I want to see the
same data from "the other side" as well.
>There is no "evaluation period" per se because having one is
>unethical IMHO. (ie: I refuse to cause you data loss; if the app is only
>good for 2 weeks or a month, what happens to all the data you've entered
>into it after that period expires?
Aha - I was unaware of this; I just assumed your software would behave like
most others do - expire at T minus 30 days. For me, it would be acceptable
to loose a little data if I didn't want to continue using the product -
it's a price I'm willing to pay for the great service of having access to a
working copy of the software. However, another solution could be that all
export functions would still be active after the eval period but new data
entry would be locked. However, there are things to be said for an extended
period of use too. Sometimes you just don't have the time to explore new
software right after installing it and in this respect your solution is
quite good. Thanks for the explanation; I'll try to keep my temper whenever
the nag-screen appears...
peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| 2644 |
From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:29pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?
|
| |
Okay, so back to your original question...
I went thrrough all the options, and it's really hard to pick out anything
that isn't needed. You've done too good of a job integrating everything
together. I guess my suggestion would be to drop back to some level of 1.5
without the cool graphic stuff like buttons and ME. I got along fine
without them, I just can't remember how anymore. Just my .02.
Scott
|
| 2645 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:43pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?
|
| |
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:
> Okay, so back to your original question...
>
> I went thrrough all the options, and it's really hard to pick out anything
> that isn't needed. You've done too good of a job integrating everything
> together. I guess my suggestion would be to drop back to some level of 1.5
> without the cool graphic stuff like buttons and ME. I got along fine
> without them, I just can't remember how anymore. Just my .02.
yeah that was my thoughts as well. The lite version will be a few
versions back, thats all. Anyway, nuff said :)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2646 |
From: jacques@t...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:54pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
Le 7 Nov 2001, à 9:40, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:
> But is it of value?
>
GReat, needed !!
> Will you sign up?
(give me four pens : ) With my hands and legs !!
> And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big party
> with yet another forum to talk about it :)
You'll have to allow html for screen shots !
<Note :
If it was not you, I would have preferred a "Outliner Usage Tips /
Recipes" List rather than a "Shadow Usage Tips /
Recipes" List:
We' benefit of more "use" ideas. On GTD i've got a
lot of usage ideas from Life Balance tips (I admire
that app, but hate to use it ;-) (and it's gatting to
have many mail to cross-post to many lists more or
less Time Management and Data organization
oriented)
Sure, it would be Shadow dominated, because
Shadow has taken a strong lead now !>
BTW _ I've been lobbying a lot on Palm french list
for Shadow : as soon as international DT comes, I
know several peaople ready to switch from Bonsaï
to Shadow :-))
Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr
|
| 2647 |
From: Gary Paulson <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:25pm
Subject: RE: Category Choices
|
| |
FYI, When you chose a category in the List | Preferences it does not show
the 'all' category.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:
> Just noticed that if you go to change the category from the document
> selection screen, one of the choices it lets you change to is 'all'.
> Changing the category to 'all' appears to be equivelent to changing it to
> 'unfiled'
I'll have to check, but some versions of the OS do not let you
suppress the All choice, so I may have left it in for all OSes to keep the
code simpler. I'll note it down.
jeff
|
| 2648 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:27pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?
|
| |
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 jacques@t... wrote:
> If it was not you, I would have preferred a "Outliner Usage Tips /
> Recipes" List rather than a "Shadow Usage Tips /
> Recipes" List:
I can see a need for a general outliner tips forum; Really, we
need a forum hierachy.. there shoudl be an Outliner Tips forum, and
GtDP_palm should be a subset of that, as should Shadow Tips, etc. Since we
can't yet do hierarchical mailing lists, we'll have to just be redundant
:)
> Sure, it would be Shadow dominated, because Shadow has taken a strong
> lead now !>
Theres no reason why general outliner ideas cannot be posted to
the proposed new tips list. As long as everything applies to Shadow to
help all of us get better, thats cool.
I could start a general outliner tips forum, but then it'd be
basicly GtD_Palm wouldn't it? :)
> BTW _ I've been lobbying a lot on Palm french list for Shadow : as
> soon as international DT comes, I know several peaople ready to switch
> from Bonsaï to Shadow :-))
I've seen your name mentioned a few times, so I thank you :) I'll
not keep you waiting too long hopefully.
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 2649 |
From: Gary Paulson <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:30pm
Subject: RE: List | Preferences.- bug
|
| |
If I have 'all' selected, open a file, close it - I come back to 'all'
If I have 'all' selected, open a file, do List | Preferences, tap cancel,
close document - I come back to 'all'
If I have 'all' selected, open a file, do List | Preferences, tap OK, close
document - it changes the category to whatever was showing in preferences
for this document.
My contention is that what I do for 'this list' should not affect the
category I have selected - it should stay with 'all' if that is where I was
when I started??
My thoughts:
It should return to the category I chose explicitly - cause I had no
intention of trying to change anything implicitly.
2 Reasons: 1) If I am trying to change the categories from one to another -
it should stay where it started so I can change all of the files in that
category (say unfiled or if you are dividing a larger category into 2
smaller ones). And 2) If I am not changing the category at all, but say I am
turning on Sync (for 'all' categories) when I go back to the document
selection menu it should not have changed the category I selected.
Is it also changing the auto-numbering for levels 4+ because it is trying to
be too smart?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:53 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] List | Preferences.- bug
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:
> Had mentioned before the bug that causes level 4+ auto-numbering to
> disappear. Had thought it was the mini-editor checkbox but just figured
out
> that just going into List | Preferences causes the numbering to disappear.
> Found this when I discovered another bug. If you have 'all' selected for
the
> categories to choose from, select a file, go into List | Preferences, go
> back out, then close the file, the file selection menu will now only show
> files in the same category as the last file instead of 'all' as it should.
Does it "properly" show the new category in the top-right? (ie:
When you open a list, and leave the list, it maybe is simply trying to
return to the category you chose implicitly). If its like this, its always
been like this since day one :)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to | |
