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2601

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags.

 
Jeff,

I agree that we need to keep the concept of categories and tags separate.
For GtD, I think of categories for "contexts" (@phone, @ computer, etc.),
while tags would be more for resources (people, equipment, etc). Categories
are task specific and carry over to the other apps, while tags are another
way of grouping, and as such should remain in Shadow.

I am still using Shadow as my organizing/planning/project mgmt tool, while
datebook and todo remain as my view of the "hard landscape" and task lists.
Does this make sense?

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Tags.                               
                    11/06/2001                                                                                     
                    10:04 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> Jeff -- I would like multiple tagging (if they replace category, it
> HAS to be multiple, or nothing is gained) and global is fine.

           Nothing is gained? 100 tags is way better than 15 categories ;)

> However, my biggie is that the tags go with the links. I want to
> know where the todo or appt came from without the hassle of the
> ineffective back link functions available now. Nothing works "well"
> right now.

           The problem with links is that having 100 tags and only 15 todo
categories.. how do you map the tags to todo categories? Do I need to the
tag editor to allow you to set todo categories? Thats a pain in the butt
;)

> Others have talked about "collecting" next action items (I'm also
> using GThD) but, for me, linking to DateBk already gives me that.
> But I need to know what (project, list, category, pick one) the item
> comes from. (Neal - TLI problem).

           Attaching info to todo and datebook items is hard (because of
those programs, not because of Shadow). I can stick info into the notes
part of those objects, but I really dislike poluting another apps space
like that. I find it very annoying to have notes in every other datebook
item, by Action Names or DB4, and having those krufty notes show up in
Shadow due to links :/

> on a cross application basis are clear. I would want to be able to
> see the tags in the "other" app after a linked item was set up.

           Setting tags outside of Shadow would be very difficult because
those apps don't know about anymore more than basic things. ie: Those apps
are the limiting factor :P (ie: I have to support *datebook*, since 90% of
people use it and not AN or DB4. And supporting DB4 icons makes means I
also have to support AN icons, and then every other datebook manager :P)

           I could have a search and rwplace thing so that if you put
@(sometext)@ into a title, it would be removed by Shadow during link
comparison, and the sometext searched for as a tag and assigned. But that
sounds painfull :P

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2602

From: stimm@r...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:14pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:
> 
> And supporting DB4 icons makes means I
> also have to support AN icons, and then every other datebook 
manager :P)

Actually, the new beta of DateBk4 uses ActionNames icons.  :)  Score 
one for standardization!

BTW, tags sound really cool.  I could easily see using them for 
action item context (places) in GTD...among other things.

Of course, I'll still use LifeBalance for my daily todo 
management. :) I use Shadow to hold my project information, and then 
I export project items to my ToDo List to be imported into my in-
basket in LifeBalance which then keeps them nice and sync'd.  Any 
further integration you could arrange with LifeBalance would *rock*.

- Sean T.
  Another satisfied customer (and yet never satisfied)  :)
2603

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags.

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> I agree that we need to keep the concept of categories and tags separate.
> For GtD, I think of categories for "contexts" (@phone, @ computer, etc.),
> while tags would be more for resources (people, equipment, etc). Categories
> are task specific and carry over to the other apps, while tags are another
> way of grouping, and as such should remain in Shadow.

	Tags have all the abilities and uses of categories. As such, you
can use tags as categories or resources. Your choice. Thats why you get to
have lots of them, since they will be used for many things, and also so
you can apply higher granularity and put multiple lower level tags on each
item. (Thats the goal, anyway)

> I am still using Shadow as my organizing/planning/project mgmt tool, while
> datebook and todo remain as my view of the "hard landscape" and task lists.
> Does this make sense?

	Sure; many many people (including me) do that very same thing. I
keep almost everything in Shadow (duh ;), and link out to ToDo or Datebook
very time pending events.

	The hardest thing I find is.... when to look at Shadow and when to
look at ToDo. (ie: I'm not got myself into the havbit of checking my todos
every morning or few hours. I usually chekc ToDo every 2-3 days, and
Shadow every day. It needs to be reversed, but since I develop Shadow it
throws me off and I end up in Shadow 99% of the time ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2604

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags.

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 stimm@r... wrote:

> > And supporting DB4 icons makes means I
> > also have to support AN icons, and then every other datebook 
> manager :P)
> 
> Actually, the new beta of DateBk4 uses ActionNames icons.  :)  Score 
> one for standardization!

	A shame; it should've gone the other way I think ;)

> Of course, I'll still use LifeBalance for my daily todo 
> management. :) I use Shadow to hold my project information, and then 
> I export project items to my ToDo List to be imported into my in-
> basket in LifeBalance which then keeps them nice and sync'd.  Any 
> further integration you could arrange with LifeBalance would *rock*.

	I don't know much about LB, and they certainly do not publish
their data formats like I do, so not much I can do there.

	I do find it interesting that peopel use multiple outliners at the
same time.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2605

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:29pm
Subject: RE: ToDo Linking Request

 
Well, couldn't you make that an option the user could turn off if they
wanted, like the mini-edit?

Also, it would be really nice if you could have todo links automatically
take the category of the parent. In other words, I have a big, long project
list, with several main headings like Classes, Site (PocketGoddess), Work,
Money, etc.  It would be grand if I could set the todo link category for
each of the main headings and have all of the children follow that setting--
kinda like what happens if you break that list up into smaller lists by main
heading and set the default to do category. I just don't want to split my
list up that way.

Does that make any sense?


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:58 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] ToDo Linking Request


On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:

> I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned in
> the past is a dangerous thing.
>
> I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever the
> todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.

	This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in Link
Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a link
(or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the list
default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T] its
because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and managage
todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.

	However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people would
get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want specific
category management so have to use link manager to control category, or
have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while item
sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you wanted,
and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.

> In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who knows.

	Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2606

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:29pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Linking Request

 
Hmm, I see your point about the quick checking of items to send to 
the todo list. Would it be possible to add this as a preference? 
Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works? 

Or, the idea of adding it to the link column would work. It'd be 
great to have it so that you hit the arrow, chose "Link to Todo", and 
then the category listing would pop up. 

I'd like to not have to check the todo box, and then go to the link 
column and choose category. Would rather just do everything from the 
link arrow.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> 
> > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned 
in 
> > the past is a dangerous thing.
> > 
> > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever 
the 
> > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
> 
> 	This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in 
Link
> Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a 
link
> (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the 
list
> default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T] 
its
> because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and 
managage
> todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
> 
> 	However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people 
would
> get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want 
specific
> category management so have to use link manager to control 
category, or
> have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while 
item
> sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
> link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you 
wanted,
> and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
> 
> > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who 
knows.
> 
> 	Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2607

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:37pm
Subject: RE: ToDo Linking Request

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Well, couldn't you make that an option the user could turn off if they
> wanted, like the mini-edit?

	Prefs are always possible, but we have a lot of them. I always
like to avoid adding more unless necessary. (ie: I get a lot of people
emailing me trying to figure out why things work one way for one guy,
another for them, etc. Prefs confuse a lot of people)

> Also, it would be really nice if you could have todo links
> automatically take the category of the parent. In other words, I have
> a big, long project list, with several main headings like Classes,
> Site (PocketGoddess), Work, Money, etc.  It would be grand if I could
> set the todo link category for each of the main headings and have all
> of the children follow that setting-- kinda like what happens if you
> break that list up into smaller lists by main heading and set the
> default to do category. I just don't want to split my list up that
> way.

	I may be adding that; its been in my plan for awhile. "todo
category inheritance".

		jeff

> Does that make any sense?
> 
> 
> Jen
> 
> ---------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:58 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] ToDo Linking Request
> 
> 
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> 
> > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned in
> > the past is a dangerous thing.
> >
> > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever the
> > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
> 
> 	This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in Link
> Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a link
> (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the list
> default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T] its
> because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and managage
> todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
> 
> 	However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people would
> get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want specific
> category management so have to use link manager to control category, or
> have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while item
> sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
> link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you wanted,
> and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
> 
> > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who knows.
> 
> 	Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2608

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: ToDo Linking Request

 
OKay, so could perhaps add a "ToDo category" option to the link
arrow popup, if the item has a todo link. (ie: You'd tap the link arrow
twice, one to set up the link, one to set up the category if different
than default).

	Possible.

		jeff

On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:

> Hmm, I see your point about the quick checking of items to send to 
> the todo list. Would it be possible to add this as a preference? 
> Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works? 
> 
> Or, the idea of adding it to the link column would work. It'd be 
> great to have it so that you hit the arrow, chose "Link to Todo", and 
> then the category listing would pop up. 
> 
> I'd like to not have to check the todo box, and then go to the link 
> column and choose category. Would rather just do everything from the 
> link arrow.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> > 
> > > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned 
> in 
> > > the past is a dangerous thing.
> > > 
> > > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever 
> the 
> > > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
> > 
> > 	This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in 
> Link
> > Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a 
> link
> > (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the 
> list
> > default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T] 
> its
> > because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and 
> managage
> > todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
> > 
> > 	However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people 
> would
> > get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want 
> specific
> > category management so have to use link manager to control 
> category, or
> > have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while 
> item
> > sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
> > link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you 
> wanted,
> > and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> > category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
> > 
> > > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who 
> knows.
> > 
> > 	Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2609

From: jreyes1958@y...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Lite?

 
Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
something someone wants that is in the other version.

have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> reduced size, limited distribution.
> 
> 	Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
(pretty),
> and take away a bunch of stuff.
> 
> 	Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make Shadow..
> Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
think
> it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2610

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 5:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow Lite?

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:

> Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
> worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
> would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
> plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
> something someone wants that is in the other version.

	I may have to release a one-time cheap version. If so, I may make
a lite version, since theres no way someone gets the full shbang if
they're only paying a couple bucks :P Such a release would not be released
online, as its not the way I wish to do business.

		jeff


> have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> > reduced size, limited distribution.
> > 
> > 	Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> > and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
> (pretty),
> > and take away a bunch of stuff.
> > 
> > 	Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make Shadow..
> > Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
> think
> > it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2611

From: lsuprise@i...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 5:58pm
Subject: Re: OT: Tags, and More Tags

 
Griff,

I'd like to comment on what you said about rarely using target 
dates "because they are reserved for items in the 'hard landscape.'" 

As you know, there's a difference between needing to do something ON 
a particular date (for example, a doctor's appointment on 11/12/2001) 
and needing to do something BY a particular date (for example, clean 
up the apartment before my parents get here on 11/12/2001).  

The difference is that something that needs to be done on a 
particular date, as in the example above of the doctor's appointment, 
is not actionable now.  If I need to do something before my doctor's 
appointment in order to prepare for it, then that something would be 
a different item on the appropriate "To Do" list, but the doctor's 
appointment itself is nothing I can do anything about right now; it 
must be done only on the date the appointment is scheduled for, 
11/12/2001, so it's part of the hard landscape of that day and 
therefore it belongs on the Calendar. 

However, my other example of needing to clean up the apartment before 
my parents get here on 11/12/2001 is a perfect example of a "To Do" 
item with a target date because, completely unlike the doctor's 
appointment, it's actionable right now.  My parent's visit itself is 
an entry on the Calendar because the visit itself is not actionable 
until then, but the cleaning of the apartment is an entry on my "To 
Do" list because it's actionable now. 
 
How do you distinguish the items on your Calendar that are actionable 
right now from those that are not?

Len





--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Griff" <keith@t...> wrote:
> Another concern 
> I have is with target dates....I very rarely use any target dates 
as 
> those are reserved for items in the "hard landscape". Things that 
> must be done on a certain date.
2612

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 6:47pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Linking Request

 
Actually, I'd hit the arrow pop up regardless if there is an existing 
link. Then I'd tap something like "ToDo Link", then the popup list 
would let me tap the category. This would create the todo link and 
set the category in one step...I think that'd be most useful.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	OKay, so could perhaps add a "ToDo category" option to the 
link
> arrow popup, if the item has a todo link. (ie: You'd tap the link 
arrow
> twice, one to set up the link, one to set up the category if 
different
> than default).
> 
> 	Possible.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> 
> > Hmm, I see your point about the quick checking of items to send 
to 
> > the todo list. Would it be possible to add this as a preference? 
> > Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works? 
> > 
> > Or, the idea of adding it to the link column would work. It'd be 
> > great to have it so that you hit the arrow, chose "Link to Todo", 
and 
> > then the category listing would pop up. 
> > 
> > I'd like to not have to check the todo box, and then go to the 
link 
> > column and choose category. Would rather just do everything from 
the 
> > link arrow.
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've 
mentioned 
> > in 
> > > > the past is a dangerous thing.
> > > > 
> > > > I came up with the idea of having a popup category list 
whenever 
> > the 
> > > > todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.
> > > 
> > > 	This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in 
> > Link
> > > Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to 
add a 
> > link
> > > (or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to 
the 
> > list
> > > default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using 
[T] 
> > its
> > > because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and 
> > managage
> > > todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.
> > > 
> > > 	However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people 
> > would
> > > get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want 
> > specific
> > > category management so have to use link manager to control 
> > category, or
> > > have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager 
while 
> > item
> > > sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in 
the
> > > link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if 
you 
> > wanted,
> > > and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
> > > category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.
> > > 
> > > > In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but 
who 
> > knows.
> > > 
> > > 	Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own 
> > micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he 
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2613

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 6:57pm
Subject: Re: OT: Tags, and More Tags

 
In this case all items not on the calendar are actionable now. Tere 
should never be anything in the todo list that isn't actionable now, 
as it would just clutter the list. 

I don't recall seeing an example similar to the "clean by a certain 
date" in the GTD book, then again, that's why I am rereading it.

For your example though I would actually create a mini-project with 
the various actionable steps. The list might contain: clean bathroom, 
vacuum, dust, mop floors, remove clutter from guest room, wash guest 
room sheets, and etc.

Then each of those items would become actionable one after another. 
Let's say you put remove clutter in your @home list. Once that is 
done you would go back and make wash sheets actionable, and so on. 

Yes there is a date that all that needs to be done by...but using 
this method you should be there well in advance of the date.

For items that you want to start after a certain time, you wouldn't 
begin making them actionable until the weekly review time that falls 
closest. 

For example this Friday I might make Dust and Vacuum actionable, as 
that is something I'd want to do at the last minute.

My idea is that the system of making things actionable, without 
dates, allows you to get them done far ahead of time...so that you 
don't need to worry about specific dates.

The only items that make it to my todo list are actionable right now. 
Items that are due a certain date, or are an appointment are put in 
the calendar. One such item might be to reboot a server on a Friday 
evening at 7pm, I can't do it any other time do to user constraints.



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., lsuprise@i... wrote:
> Griff,
> 
> I'd like to comment on what you said about rarely using target 
> dates "because they are reserved for items in the 'hard 
landscape.'" 
> 
> As you know, there's a difference between needing to do something 
ON 
> a particular date (for example, a doctor's appointment on 
11/12/2001) 
> and needing to do something BY a particular date (for example, 
clean 
> up the apartment before my parents get here on 11/12/2001).  
> 
> The difference is that something that needs to be done on a 
> particular date, as in the example above of the doctor's 
appointment, 
> is not actionable now.  If I need to do something before my 
doctor's 
> appointment in order to prepare for it, then that something would 
be 
> a different item on the appropriate "To Do" list, but the doctor's 
> appointment itself is nothing I can do anything about right now; it 
> must be done only on the date the appointment is scheduled for, 
> 11/12/2001, so it's part of the hard landscape of that day and 
> therefore it belongs on the Calendar. 
> 
> However, my other example of needing to clean up the apartment 
before 
> my parents get here on 11/12/2001 is a perfect example of a "To Do" 
> item with a target date because, completely unlike the doctor's 
> appointment, it's actionable right now.  My parent's visit itself 
is 
> an entry on the Calendar because the visit itself is not actionable 
> until then, but the cleaning of the apartment is an entry on my "To 
> Do" list because it's actionable now. 
>  
> How do you distinguish the items on your Calendar that are 
actionable 
> right now from those that are not?
> 
> Len
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Griff" <keith@t...> wrote:
> > Another concern 
> > I have is with target dates....I very rarely use any target dates 
> as 
> > those are reserved for items in the "hard landscape". Things that 
> > must be done on a certain date.
2614

From: stimm@r...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 7:54pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > Of course, I'll still use LifeBalance for my daily todo 
> > management. :) I use Shadow to hold my project information, and 
then 
> > I export project items to my ToDo List to be imported into my in-
> > basket in LifeBalance which then keeps them nice and sync'd.  
Any 
> > further integration you could arrange with LifeBalance would 
*rock*.
> 
> 	I don't know much about LB, and they certainly do not publish
> their data formats like I do, so not much I can do there.

Yes, I was afraid of that.  It's a great product (as is Shadow), but 
they seem far too concerned about keeping a tight hold on their data 
formats.  Oh well...doesn't hurt to ask.  :)

> 
> 	I do find it interesting that peopel use multiple outliners 
at the
> same time.

Since you don't know much about LifeBalance, that might explain the 
confusion.  :)  I'll try and help explain the difference.  I use 
Shadow for all kinds of lists and outlines (ie. project information, 
document outlining, someday/maybe list, etc...)  LifeBalance is 
strictly for action items.  Since I use it with the GTD methodology, 
it functions as my inbox and task management application.  I have a 
set of top-level categories that I assign a percentage of importance 
to my life as a whole (my "life balance"), and then all of my tasks 
fall somewhere under each of those categories and subcategories.  
Each task is assigned an importance relative to the category or 
subcategory it's contained by, and each task has a "place" where it 
can occur as well as a timeframe in which it can occur (for tasks 
affected by business hours, etc).

Once my tasks are outlined, all of my activity occurs in LB's Todo 
List.  I choose my context or place (ie. "At Home", "At Office", "At 
Computer", etc), and it uses some sort of fuzzy logic to list and 
prioritize the tasks that need to occur in that context based on the 
importance, priorities, timeframe, etc. that I assigned to each task 
and major life category.  It is *not* for general outline use, and 
that is not it's purpose.  It's purpose is to help make sure that I 
focus on all areas of my life, so I don't find myself doing 
everything from my "Work" top-level item and neglecting "Personal 
Improvement" or "Family".  It's incredibly cool...I just wish they 
were a little more open with the format.  (I'd love to be able to 
play around with XML/XSL like I can with Shadow.)  :)

What's great about using it with Shadow is that I can use Shadow to 
keep the bigger picture for each project I'm involved in (per GTD 
project definition) and use the automatic todo import/export to keep 
tasks synchronized between Shadow and LifeBalance (ie. if I check a 
task off in Shadow, it gets checked off in LifeBalance and vice-
versa).

Hopefully my explanation was reasonably clear...I kind of feel like 
I'm trying to explain the Matrix.  No one can be told what it 
is...you have to see it for yourself.  :)

- Sean T.
2615

From: jacques@t...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 9:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: ToDo Linking Request

 
Le 6 Nov 2001, à 16:29, Griff a écrit:

> Would it be possible to add this as a preference? 
> Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works? 

And with no further pref :

a tap -> the default todo cat
a tap'n hold -> open the cat popup ?





Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr
2616

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: ToDo Linking Request

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> > Would it be possible to add this as a preference? 
> > Perhaps one could choose how the todo checkbox works? 
> 
> And with no further pref :
> 
> a tap -> the default todo cat
> a tap'n hold -> open the cat popup ?

	I have always avoided tap-and-hold since it is a "hidden UI",
which means very few will ever use it. But it is an interesting idea..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2617

From: Randy Willard  <randywillard@h...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags, and More Tags

 
My "Next Actions" aren't always tomorrow or they may not have a definite 
day. I'd like to  be able to go thru my lists, mark the next actions and 
then filter them out so I don't have to search thru multiple projects/lists 
to find them. I don't like linking to ToDo until I have a actual date I 
want the task done. It makes me crazy to see ToDos that don't HAVE to be done.

It would also make reviewing easier.

Yep, Tags would be a wonderful addition, but Jeff, didn't you say you were 
going to get some rest? I sense the creative fire building again.....

Randy

At 03:14 PM 11/6/01 +0000, you wrote:
>I don't understand your comment on tags being useful for GTD. What
>exactly would be in the new list? I am thinking perhaps you are
>suggesting one could scan all lists for a tag @Phone, and then create
>an @Phone list, but could be wrong.
>
>I am curious about this as in my current methodology I wouldn't use
>tags in the least. I see many people pro-tag, and I just don't
>understand why.
>
>My methodolgy in a nutshell is that as an action item pops up I link
>it to the todo database in the appropriate "@" category. I then use
>DB4 to display different todo categories based on context (where I
>am). So for me tags wouldn't help...but maybe I am missing
>something...
2618

From: scotthutchins@y...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
I often peek at this newsgroup but rarely post...

I have to say, tags would be HUGE!  It would make sorting/viewing 
much easier.  I'd like that functionality much more than a desktop 
version.

Just my 2 cents.
2619

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags, and More Tags

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Randy Willard wrote:

> Yep, Tags would be a wonderful addition, but Jeff, didn't you say you were 
> going to get some rest? I sense the creative fire building again.....

	heh. The ideas never stop (oh how sometimes they should ;), but I
am trying to avoid hunkering down to a tonne of work. The sort of person I
am sucks me into work far too easily, so I'm resisting :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2620

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 11:41pm
Subject: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
Jeff:

I really like the MiniEditor functionality.  However, moving from 
item to item is a bit cumbersome.  I would like to suggest to 
enhancements.

1) Have you considered allowing the MiniEditor to "float" from item 
to item?  This would enhance input speed when using the minieditor.

2) In addition to the "D"(.i.e. Details) icon in the miniEditor, can 
you add a icon to take you directly to the "Notes"?


Norman
2621

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 0:02am
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> 1) Have you considered allowing the MiniEditor to "float" from item 
> to item?  This would enhance input speed when using the minieditor.

	What do you mean by float? (my mind reader hat is in another suit
;)

> 2) In addition to the "D"(.i.e. Details) icon in the miniEditor, can 
> you add a icon to take you directly to the "Notes"?

	Space is left for that future button, but it'll be a bit of work.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2622

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:01am
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?

 
The price for Shadow is low enough now - Just call it Shadow Lite and charge
the same price :)

You say you 'may have to' - guess I cannot figure out what the reason would
be unless it is to give away.  And the current unregistered version does
that?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:08 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow Lite?


On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:

> Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
> worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
> would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
> plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
> something someone wants that is in the other version.

	I may have to release a one-time cheap version. If so, I may make
a lite version, since theres no way someone gets the full shbang if
they're only paying a couple bucks :P Such a release would not be released
online, as its not the way I wish to do business.

		jeff


> have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> > 	I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> > reduced size, limited distribution.
> >
> > 	Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> > and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
> (pretty),
> > and take away a bunch of stuff.
> >
> > 	Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make Shadow..
> > Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
> think
> > it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
> >
> > 		jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2623

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:49am
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
Jeff:

Sorry about being vague.  I would like the miniEditor to remain up as 
I move from item to item in the view.  In other words, a non-modal 
miniEditor.  When the MiniEditor is shown, I can still tap on a 
widget in the miniEditor or use a shortcut to move up/down the 
outline.  While traversing the list, each item is shown in the 
miniEditor.  Is this clear?

Norman


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > 1) Have you considered allowing the MiniEditor to "float" from 
item 
> > to item?  This would enhance input speed when using the 
minieditor.
> 
> 	What do you mean by float? (my mind reader hat is in another 
suit
> ;)
>
2624

From: Kenneth S. Rhee  <polymath@m...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 7:00am
Subject: Re[2]: ToDo Linking Request

 
Check out the latest Stowway keyboard driver!

It now include screen pointer (just like mouse pointer) and additional
features to select graphic boxes (such as Cancel, OK, etc).

Perhaps Jeff can take a sigh of relief!

-- 
Best regards,
 Kenneth                            mailto:polymath@m...
2625

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 0:57pm
Subject: Re: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> Sorry about being vague.  I would like the miniEditor to remain up as 
> I move from item to item in the view.  In other words, a non-modal 
> miniEditor.  When the MiniEditor is shown, I can still tap on a 
> widget in the miniEditor or use a shortcut to move up/down the 
> outline.  While traversing the list, each item is shown in the 
> miniEditor.  Is this clear?

	Hmm. Thought about it briefly, but it woudl likely amount to
making the ME not into a window at all.. just remove the bottom row or two
from the display and replace with the mini editor entry fields. Didnt'
seem like a good trade off (losing a couple of rows). Making the window
non-modal would require that it can float around (since it obscures whats
under it), and that menus and buttons and allt hat stuff works with the ME
around.. which isn't very Palm OS friendly.

	You can double tap to bring up the mini editor, if that pref is
set..

	Hmm. Have to think about it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2626

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:40pm
Subject: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in different
ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new users
(and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general chatter.

	The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email backend or
a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top of
email.. nice and simple and personal.

	Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often been
tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
"shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, Shadow
with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. But
all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-discuss.

	I do not wish to limit shadow-discuss, either. It can keep on as
it is. You can talk about usage ideas here, too, of course, and please
do. But the best of the postings can be forwarded to shadow-users (or
whatever we call it), and voila, a nice running easy to read history. The
keenest of ideas to be swapped in one place. Inappropriate postings can be
deleted.

	Because it will be a yahoogroup, it will be instantly familiar to
people, and offer both a web based views and email based views. Post via
web or email, read via web or email. Seems like a good solution to me.

	But is it of value?

	Will you sign up?

	And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big party
with yet another forum to talk about it :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2627

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 2:47pm
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
I'd certainly sign up. The GTD_palm forum is nice, but a group that could
discuss it in relation to Shadow would be even better. Not to mention the
ideas we'd gain from people with other time management systems and Palm
applications tied into Shadow.

YahooGroups Rules!!


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:40 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes"
List?



	Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in different
ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new users
(and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general chatter.

	The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email backend or
a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top of
email.. nice and simple and personal.

	Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often been
tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
"shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, Shadow
with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. But
all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-discuss.

	I do not wish to limit shadow-discuss, either. It can keep on as
it is. You can talk about usage ideas here, too, of course, and please
do. But the best of the postings can be forwarded to shadow-users (or
whatever we call it), and voila, a nice running easy to read history. The
keenest of ideas to be swapped in one place. Inappropriate postings can be
deleted.

	Because it will be a yahoogroup, it will be instantly familiar to
people, and offer both a web based views and email based views. Post via
web or email, read via web or email. Seems like a good solution to me.

	But is it of value?

	Will you sign up?

	And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big party
with yet another forum to talk about it :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2628

From: as.two.sixty.five  <as265@y...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:04pm
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Count me in. (No need to quote previous postings.)



_______________________________________________________
Build your own website for free and in minutes at http://ca.geocities.com
2629

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:24pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
I'd sign up.
--
2630

From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:46pm
Subject: Annoying nags...

 
Hi!

I'm currently evaluating ShadowPlan, and it looks rather nice I must say. I find the 2.0 iteration a major step in the right direction. However, is it really necessary to include that pesky "If you like this software, please register" - message? I mean, I've been using the software only since this morning and it has already nagged me three times. Sure, once a day - that I can accept, but this is a bit much, don't you think? I would actually prefer NOT to see it at all until the last week of my evaluation period - it really gets in the way when I'm trying to mimic how it might work in a production environment. 

I don't know if it's only me, but this was a major reason why I thought "oh blast - never freakin' mind then" before deleting my 1.5 trial on the second day. It's every bit as annoying as an endless exit-loop from a porn-site ;-) Needless to say, the software probably didn't get a fair evaluation from me on that occasion. 


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
2631

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 3:57pm
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Yes please!
 
Dave (a non GtD person)
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2632

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:31pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
I think having a separate shadow-recipe list would be a great idea!

Ken

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> 
> 	Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
> handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in different
> ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
> tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
> shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new users
> (and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
> through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general chatter.
> 
> 	The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
> wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
> system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email backend or
> a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top of
> email.. nice and simple and personal.
> 
> 	Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often been
> tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
> "shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
> USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, Shadow
> with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. But
> all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
> requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-discuss.
> 
 [snip]

-- 
><>   Ken Scott   kscott@p...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott   
                                                                      
              This is the day that the Lord has made;             
              I will rejoice and be glad in it!          -- Psalm 118:24
2633

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Annoying nags...

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 Tormod.Halvorsen@s... wrote:

> I'm currently evaluating ShadowPlan, and it looks rather nice I must
> say. I find the 2.0 iteration a major step in the right direction.
> However, is it really necessary to include that pesky "If you like
> this software, please register" - message? I mean, I've been using the
> software only since this morning and it has already nagged me three

	Yes it is necessary, and it only nags every 3 or 4 loads, so
you've opened Shadow probably 12 times. Thats pretty busy :)  Read below
and you'll find out that I'm actually being pretty good to everyone.

> times. Sure, once a day - that I can accept, but this is a bit much,
> don't you think? I would actually prefer NOT to see it at all until
> the last week of my evaluation period - it really gets in the way when
> I'm trying to mimic how it might work in a production environment.

	There is no "evaluation period" per se because having one is
unethical IMHO. (ie: I refuse to cause you data loss; if the app is only
good for 2 weeks or a month, what happens to all the data you've entered
into it after that period expires? Its locked in the app? I don't think
thats ethical. So I let you define your own period, at the price of nags).

	I think its the most fair way to let you use an app for a few
weeks without causing you the headaches any other system will cause. IF
you've entered data in for 2 weeks but decide you dislike the app, you're
free to cuty and paste or export it out to another app.

> I don't know if it's only me, but this was a major reason why I
> thought "oh blast - never freakin' mind then" before deleting my 1.5
> trial on the second day. It's every bit as annoying as an endless
> exit-loop from a porn-site ;-) Needless to say, the software probably
> didn't get a fair evaluation from me on that occasion.

	I get a lot of compliments about the system; it is pretty non
intrusive (most people don't load the app 15 times a day when evaluating
it ;) and fair, since you get basicly full use of the system as long as
you feel you need to.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2634

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:46pm
Subject: List | Preferences.- bug

 
Had mentioned before the bug that causes level 4+ auto-numbering to
disappear.  Had thought it was the mini-editor checkbox but just figured out
that just going into List | Preferences causes the numbering to disappear.
Found this when I discovered another bug. If you have 'all' selected for the
categories to choose from, select a file, go into List | Preferences, go
back out, then close the file, the file selection menu will now only show
files in the same category as the last file instead of 'all' as it should.
2635

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:46pm
Subject: Category Choices

 
Just noticed that if you go to change the category from the document
selection screen,  one of the choices it lets you change to is 'all'.
Changing the category to 'all' appears to be equivelent to changing it to
'unfiled'
2636

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:53pm
Subject: Re: List | Preferences.- bug

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> Had mentioned before the bug that causes level 4+ auto-numbering to
> disappear.  Had thought it was the mini-editor checkbox but just figured out
> that just going into List | Preferences causes the numbering to disappear.
> Found this when I discovered another bug. If you have 'all' selected for the
> categories to choose from, select a file, go into List | Preferences, go
> back out, then close the file, the file selection menu will now only show
> files in the same category as the last file instead of 'all' as it should.

	Does it "properly" show the new category in the top-right? (ie:
When you open a list, and leave the list, it maybe is simply trying to
return to the category you chose implicitly). If its like this, its always
been like this since day one :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2637

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:54pm
Subject: Re: Category Choices

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> Just noticed that if you go to change the category from the document
> selection screen,  one of the choices it lets you change to is 'all'.
> Changing the category to 'all' appears to be equivelent to changing it to
> 'unfiled'

	I'll have to check, but some versions of the OS do not let you
suppress the All choice, so I may have left it in for all OSes to keep the
code simpler. I'll note it down.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2638

From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:58pm
Subject: RE: Annoying nags...

 
>Yes it is necessary, and it only nags every 3 or 4 loads, so
>you've opened Shadow probably 12 times. Thats pretty busy :)
 
Well, yes - I am mainly checking out the linking features, so to verify how a linked, newly created ToDo or appointment looks in ActionNames, I tend to switch back and forth a lot. There are quite a few options to be fiddled with, so to understand them fully and use them right, I want to see the same data from "the other side" as well.
 

>There is no "evaluation period" per se because having one is
>unethical IMHO. (ie: I refuse to cause you data loss; if the app is only
>good for 2 weeks or a month, what happens to all the data you've entered
>into it after that period expires?
 
Aha - I was unaware of this; I just assumed your software would behave like most others do - expire at T minus 30 days. For me, it would be acceptable to loose a little data if I didn't want to continue using the product - it's a price I'm willing to pay for the great service of having access to a working copy of the software. However, another solution could be that all export functions would still be active after the eval period but new data entry would be locked. However, there are things to be said for an extended period of use too. Sometimes you just don't have the time to explore new software right after installing it and in this respect your solution is quite good. Thanks for the explanation; I'll try to keep my temper whenever the nag-screen appears...
 
 
peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
 
 
 
      


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2639

From: jburns8@m...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 4:59pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
You can count me in.
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of 
their
> handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in 
different
> ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
> tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
> shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new 
users
> (and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
> through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general 
chatter.
> 
> 	The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
> wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
> system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email 
backend or
> a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top 
of
> email.. nice and simple and personal.
> 
> 	Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often 
been
> tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
> "shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
> USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, 
Shadow
> with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. 
But
> all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
> requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-
discuss.
> 
> 	I do not wish to limit shadow-discuss, either. It can keep on 
as
> it is. You can talk about usage ideas here, too, of course, and 
please
> do. But the best of the postings can be forwarded to shadow-users 
(or
> whatever we call it), and voila, a nice running easy to read 
history. The
> keenest of ideas to be swapped in one place. Inappropriate postings 
can be
> deleted.
> 
> 	Because it will be a yahoogroup, it will be instantly 
familiar to
> people, and offer both a web based views and email based views. 
Post via
> web or email, read via web or email. Seems like a good solution to 
me.
> 
> 	But is it of value?
> 
> 	Will you sign up?
> 
> 	And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big 
party
> with yet another forum to talk about it :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2640

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:04pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?

 
Jeff,

Just to throw my 2 cents in on this, I'm running Shadow 2.0 on an M100, and
I'm happy with the performance. I show that 2.0 takes up 226K, which is a
lot less than Datebook4 or Franklin Planning System. While it's none of my
business, I don't see why you would need a Shadow Lite either. This is the
last you'll hear from me on the subject, the decision is certainly yours to
make.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    "Gary                                                                                          
                    Paulson"             To:     <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>                                  
                    <gpaulson@o...        cc:                                                                       
                    .com>                Subject:     RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow Lite?                        
                                                                                                                   
                    11/06/2001                                                                                     
                    08:01 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




The price for Shadow is low enough now - Just call it Shadow Lite and
charge
the same price :)

You say you 'may have to' - guess I cannot figure out what the reason would
be unless it is to give away.  And the current unregistered version does
that?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:08 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Shadow Lite?


On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jreyes1958@y... wrote:

> Don't do it -- you'll regret it. Lite versions just don't seem to be
> worth the effort --the user base can be pickier than the power user--
> would be better to have ability to turn off some options in shadow
> plan rather than try to support two versions -- there will always be
> something someone wants that is in the other version.

           I may have to release a one-time cheap version. If so, I may
make
a lite version, since theres no way someone gets the full shbang if
they're only paying a couple bucks :P Such a release would not be released
online, as its not the way I wish to do business.

                     jeff


> have seen this approach tried, just can't remember any that succeeded.
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> >        I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
> > reduced size, limited distribution.
> >
> >        Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
> > and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0
> (pretty),
> > and take away a bunch of stuff.
> >
> >        Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make
Shadow..
> > Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I
> think
> > it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..
> >
> >                  jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2641

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:10pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
At this point I'll sign up for just about anything with Shadow in the name!
Yes, I think this separate group would be nice.

Scott
2642

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:23pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> Just to throw my 2 cents in on this, I'm running Shadow 2.0 on an M100, and
> I'm happy with the performance. I show that 2.0 takes up 226K, which is a

	Shadow 2.0 takes up 190k; the rest of it is your lists data.

> lot less than Datebook4 or Franklin Planning System. While it's none of my
> business, I don't see why you would need a Shadow Lite either. This is the
> last you'll hear from me on the subject, the decision is certainly yours to
> make.

	The "lite" edition will not be released online; its for a limited
private release to a few people for very cheap :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2643

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:21pm
Subject: RE: Annoying nags...

 
Tormod,

On the third page of Preferences (under the help tab from the opening
display) there is a box you can check to "return to shadow after go to". So
you can click on the link arrow to go to your ToDo and check it out and
then click the Home silkscreen button to return to Shadow. This may cut
down on the number of times you have to open Shadow. Hope this helps.

From another thread,  a Tips group would certainly be a good place for
trial users to go to see the benefits of the software.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Tormod.Halvor                                                                                  
                    sen@s...           To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                                         cc:                                                                       
                    11/07/2001           Subject:     RE: [shadow-discuss] Annoying nags...                        
                    10:58 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




>Yes it is necessary, and it only nags every 3 or 4 loads, so
>you've opened Shadow probably 12 times. Thats pretty busy :)

Well, yes - I am mainly checking out the linking features, so to verify how
a linked, newly created ToDo or appointment looks in ActionNames, I tend to
switch back and forth a lot. There are quite a few options to be fiddled
with, so to understand them fully and use them right, I want to see the
same data from "the other side" as well.


>There is no "evaluation period" per se because having one is
>unethical IMHO. (ie: I refuse to cause you data loss; if the app is only
>good for 2 weeks or a month, what happens to all the data you've entered
>into it after that period expires?

Aha - I was unaware of this; I just assumed your software would behave like
most others do - expire at T minus 30 days. For me, it would be acceptable
to loose a little data if I didn't want to continue using the product -
it's a price I'm willing to pay for the great service of having access to a
working copy of the software. However, another solution could be that all
export functions would still be active after the eval period but new data
entry would be locked. However, there are things to be said for an extended
period of use too. Sometimes you just don't have the time to explore new
software right after installing it and in this respect your solution is
quite good. Thanks for the explanation; I'll try to keep my temper whenever
the nag-screen appears...


peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/






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2644

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:29pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?

 
Okay, so back to your original question...

I went thrrough all the options, and it's really hard to pick out anything
that isn't needed. You've done too good of a job integrating everything
together. I guess my suggestion would be to drop back to some level of 1.5
without the cool graphic stuff like buttons and ME. I got along fine
without them, I just can't remember how anymore. Just my .02.

Scott
2645

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:43pm
Subject: RE: Re: Shadow Lite?

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> Okay, so back to your original question...
> 
> I went thrrough all the options, and it's really hard to pick out anything
> that isn't needed. You've done too good of a job integrating everything
> together. I guess my suggestion would be to drop back to some level of 1.5
> without the cool graphic stuff like buttons and ME. I got along fine
> without them, I just can't remember how anymore. Just my .02.

	yeah that was my thoughts as well. The lite version will be a few
versions back, thats all. Anyway, nuff said :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2646

From: jacques@t...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 5:54pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Le 7 Nov 2001, à 9:40, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> But is it of value?
>
GReat, needed !!

> 	Will you sign up?

(give me four pens : ) With my hands and legs !!


> 	And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big party
> with yet another forum to talk about it :)


You'll have to allow html for screen shots !

<Note : 

If it was not you, I would have preferred a "Outliner Usage Tips / 
Recipes" List rather than a "Shadow Usage Tips / 
Recipes" List:

We' benefit of more "use" ideas. On GTD i've got a 
lot of usage ideas from Life Balance tips (I admire 
that app, but hate to use it ;-) (and it's gatting to 
have many mail to cross-post to many lists more or 
less Time Management and Data organization 
oriented)

Sure, it would be Shadow dominated, because 
Shadow has taken a strong lead now !>


BTW _ I've been lobbying a lot on Palm french list 
for Shadow : as soon as international DT comes, I 
know several peaople ready to switch from Bonsaï 
to Shadow :-))



Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr
2647

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:25pm
Subject: RE: Category Choices

 
FYI, When you chose a category in the List | Preferences it does not show
the 'all' category.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> Just noticed that if you go to change the category from the document
> selection screen,  one of the choices it lets you change to is 'all'.
> Changing the category to 'all' appears to be equivelent to changing it to
> 'unfiled'

	I'll have to check, but some versions of the OS do not let you
suppress the All choice, so I may have left it in for all OSes to keep the
code simpler. I'll note it down.

		jeff
2648

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:27pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> If it was not you, I would have preferred a "Outliner Usage Tips / 
> Recipes" List rather than a "Shadow Usage Tips / 
> Recipes" List:

	I can see a need for a general outliner tips forum; Really, we
need a forum hierachy.. there shoudl be an Outliner Tips forum, and
GtDP_palm should be a subset of that, as should Shadow Tips, etc. Since we
can't yet do hierarchical mailing lists, we'll have to just be redundant
:)

> Sure, it would be Shadow dominated, because Shadow has taken a strong
> lead now !>

	Theres no reason why general outliner ideas cannot be posted to
the proposed new tips list. As long as everything applies to Shadow to
help all of us get better, thats cool. 

	I could start a general outliner tips forum, but then it'd be
basicly GtD_Palm wouldn't it? :)

> BTW _ I've been lobbying a lot on Palm french list for Shadow : as
> soon as international DT comes, I know several peaople ready to switch
> from Bonsaï to Shadow :-))

	I've seen your name mentioned a few times, so I thank you :) I'll
not keep you waiting too long hopefully.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2649

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:30pm
Subject: RE: List | Preferences.- bug

 
If I have 'all' selected, open a file, close it - I come back to 'all'
If I have 'all' selected, open a file, do List | Preferences, tap cancel,
close document - I come back to 'all'
If I have 'all' selected, open a file, do List | Preferences, tap OK, close
document - it changes the category to whatever was showing in preferences
for this document.

My contention is that what I do for 'this list' should not affect the
category I have selected - it should stay with 'all' if that is where I was
when I started??

My thoughts:
It should return to the category I chose explicitly - cause I had no
intention of trying to change anything implicitly.
2 Reasons: 1) If I am trying to change the categories from one to another -
it should stay where it started so I can change all of the files in that
category (say unfiled or if you are dividing a larger category into 2
smaller ones). And 2) If I am not changing the category at all, but say I am
turning on Sync (for 'all' categories) when I go back to the document
selection menu it should not have changed the category I selected.

Is it also changing the auto-numbering for levels 4+ because it is trying to
be too smart?

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:53 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] List | Preferences.- bug


On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> Had mentioned before the bug that causes level 4+ auto-numbering to
> disappear.  Had thought it was the mini-editor checkbox but just figured
out
> that just going into List | Preferences causes the numbering to disappear.
> Found this when I discovered another bug. If you have 'all' selected for
the
> categories to choose from, select a file, go into List | Preferences, go
> back out, then close the file, the file selection menu will now only show
> files in the same category as the last file instead of 'all' as it should.

	Does it "properly" show the new category in the top-right? (ie:
When you open a list, and leave the list, it maybe is simply trying to
return to the category you chose implicitly). If its like this, its always
been like this since day one :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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2650

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:34pm
Subject: RE: Category Choices

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> FYI, When you chose a category in the List | Preferences it does not show
> the 'all' category.

	yeah, that one is smart. I must've used the wrong pop-up of mine
on the fileops screen. I've noted down to fix it for next alpha.

		jeff

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> 
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:
> 
> > Just noticed that if you go to change the category from the document
> > selection screen,  one of the choices it lets you change to is 'all'.
> > Changing the category to 'all' appears to be equivelent to changing it to
> > 'unfiled'
> 
> 	I'll have to check, but some versions of the OS do not let you
> suppress the All choice, so I may have left it in for all OSes to keep the
> code simpler. I'll note it down.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2651

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:36pm
Subject: RE: List | Preferences.- bug

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> If I have 'all' selected, open a file, close it - I come back to 'all'
> If I have 'all' selected, open a file, do List | Preferences, tap cancel,
> close document - I come back to 'all'
> If I have 'all' selected, open a file, do List | Preferences, tap OK, close
> document - it changes the category to whatever was showing in preferences
> for this document.

	Ahh, quite, I see what you mean. I thought I fixed that about a
year ago ;)

> My contention is that what I do for 'this list' should not affect the
> category I have selected - it should stay with 'all' if that is where I was
> when I started??
> 
> My thoughts:
> It should return to the category I chose explicitly - cause I had no
> intention of trying to change anything implicitly.
> 2 Reasons: 1) If I am trying to change the categories from one to another -
> it should stay where it started so I can change all of the files in that
> category (say unfiled or if you are dividing a larger category into 2

	You can use fileops now to move a pile of files between categories
much easier now (in SP 2.0)

> smaller ones). And 2) If I am not changing the category at all, but say I am
> turning on Sync (for 'all' categories) when I go back to the document
> selection menu it should not have changed the category I selected.

	I agree.

> Is it also changing the auto-numbering for levels 4+ because it is trying to
> be too smart?

	Probably. Auto-numbering is a pretty complex thing due to all the
options. I'll look into it.

		jeff

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:53 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] List | Preferences.- bug
> 
> 
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:
> 
> > Had mentioned before the bug that causes level 4+ auto-numbering to
> > disappear.  Had thought it was the mini-editor checkbox but just figured
> out
> > that just going into List | Preferences causes the numbering to disappear.
> > Found this when I discovered another bug. If you have 'all' selected for
> the
> > categories to choose from, select a file, go into List | Preferences, go
> > back out, then close the file, the file selection menu will now only show
> > files in the same category as the last file instead of 'all' as it should.
> 
> 	Does it "properly" show the new category in the top-right? (ie:
> When you open a list, and leave the list, it maybe is simply trying to
> return to the category you chose implicitly). If its like this, its always
> been like this since day one :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2652

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 6:56pm
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
Jeff:

Isn't it a bit simpler if "float" is limited to either bottom of 
screen or top of screen?  Just as long as the item being viewed is 
not obscured.  The current implementation downsizes the ME window if 
the selected item is near the bottom of the display.  Jumping the ME 
window to the top if the size of the ME window will be less than x 
might be useful even in the current implementation.  Another possible 
solution would to make the ME window draggable(tap-hold).  This would 
cover the cases not handled by above suggestion.  What ya think?

Norman


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	Hmm. Thought about it briefly, but it woudl likely amount to
> making the ME not into a window at all.. just remove the bottom row 
or two
> from the display and replace with the mini editor entry fields. 
Didnt'
> seem like a good trade off (losing a couple of rows). Making the 
window
> non-modal would require that it can float around (since it obscures 
whats
> under it), and that menus and buttons and allt hat stuff works with 
the ME
> around.. which isn't very Palm OS friendly.
> 
> 	You can double tap to bring up the mini editor, if that pref 
is
> set..
> 
> 	Hmm. Have to think about it.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2653

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
The problem is with palm interface guidelines. It is generally to
be avoided to put dialogs at the top of the screen, or anywhere other than
the bottom. People have muscle memorty and if its always at the bottom,
they can work faster. Hacks may depend on it. Etc. If its a 100% desirable
to have it jump around, I can do so, but it may cause problems with some
unknown or future hack..

		jeff

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> Jeff:
> 
> Isn't it a bit simpler if "float" is limited to either bottom of 
> screen or top of screen?  Just as long as the item being viewed is 
> not obscured.  The current implementation downsizes the ME window if 
> the selected item is near the bottom of the display.  Jumping the ME 
> window to the top if the size of the ME window will be less than x 
> might be useful even in the current implementation.  Another possible 
> solution would to make the ME window draggable(tap-hold).  This would 
> cover the cases not handled by above suggestion.  What ya think?
> 
> Norman
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 	Hmm. Thought about it briefly, but it woudl likely amount to
> > making the ME not into a window at all.. just remove the bottom row 
> or two
> > from the display and replace with the mini editor entry fields. 
> Didnt'
> > seem like a good trade off (losing a couple of rows). Making the 
> window
> > non-modal would require that it can float around (since it obscures 
> whats
> > under it), and that menus and buttons and allt hat stuff works with 
> the ME
> > around.. which isn't very Palm OS friendly.
> > 
> > 	You can double tap to bring up the mini editor, if that pref 
> is
> > set..
> > 
> > 	Hmm. Have to think about it.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2654

From: Tarasofsky@t...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 9:48pm
Subject: cross-file filtering

 
Hi,
I am not a regular reader of the messages on this list, so apologies 
in advance if this has ever come up before.  I am very happy with the 
program, and am trying to use it more and more to replace my ToDo 
list.  However, what would make me even more happy would be if there 
was a way to do a filter on all shadow files at once, so that e.g. I 
could see all the items in a single list that are due this week.  
Currently, one needs to open each list to do such a filter, which can 
become rather tedious if one has a lot of lists.  Perhaps this is an 
unrealistic request.  Perhaps others can share some tips on how to 
deal with situation.

Thanks,
Richard
2655

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 9:49pm
Subject: Re: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
If I can throw my 2 cents in...

I really like the way that the ME works now with the GBs (graphic buttons).
I click the check in ME, I click either new sibling or new child GB, and
I'm entering data like crazy. Only thing faster is the desktop. If I need
to edit it's double click, edit, check, double click, edit check. I think
this is really intuitive. Am I missing something?

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement     
                    11/07/2001                                                                                     
                    03:09 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   





           The problem is with palm interface guidelines. It is generally
to
be avoided to put dialogs at the top of the screen, or anywhere other than
the bottom. People have muscle memorty and if its always at the bottom,
they can work faster. Hacks may depend on it. Etc. If its a 100% desirable
to have it jump around, I can do so, but it may cause problems with some
unknown or future hack..

                     jeff

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> Jeff:
>
> Isn't it a bit simpler if "float" is limited to either bottom of
> screen or top of screen?  Just as long as the item being viewed is
> not obscured.  The current implementation downsizes the ME window if
> the selected item is near the bottom of the display.  Jumping the ME
> window to the top if the size of the ME window will be less than x
> might be useful even in the current implementation.  Another possible
> solution would to make the ME window draggable(tap-hold).  This would
> cover the cases not handled by above suggestion.  What ya think?
>
> Norman
>
>
2656

From: Randy Willard  <randywillard@h...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 10:22pm
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
>I think the "Recipes List" would be great! Some of us self employed types 
>don't have a big corporate structure to share ideas with. It would be a 
>wonderful help. Where do I sign up?


Randy




>       Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
>handheld. Its come up many times how we all use Shadow Plan in different
>ways or with different other applications and hacks. We all have our
>tricks and secrets and neat ideas, and we often share them here in
>shadow-discuss. However, shadow-discuss is often busy and thus new users
>(and old!) have a hard time finding these keener ideas as they wade
>through the million ideas and suggestions, bug reports, general chatter.
>
>       The idea of a "web board", wiki, web message system, grafitti
>wall, etc have come up with the goal of providing a web-based idea
>system. Typically these solutions do not also provide an email backend or
>a simple way to post, and I think I and others like to keep on top of
>email.. nice and simple and personal.
>
>       Rather than add another technology into the mix, I've often been
>tempted to just set up another yahoogroup called "shadow-users" or
>"shadow-recipes" or somesuch, where people will be able to post ONLY
>USAGE IDEAS for Shadow, Shadow and various PDAs, Shadow with Hacks, Shadow
>with other apps, Shadow XML or XSL toys, Shadow with.. you name it. But
>all things Shadow, and only good ideas. No bug reports, no feature
>requests.. those will be deleted. Those should remain in shadow-discuss.
>
>       I do not wish to limit shadow-discuss, either. It can keep on as
>it is. You can talk about usage ideas here, too, of course, and please
>do. But the best of the postings can be forwarded to shadow-users (or
>whatever we call it), and voila, a nice running easy to read history. The
>keenest of ideas to be swapped in one place. Inappropriate postings can be
>deleted.
>
>       Because it will be a yahoogroup, it will be instantly familiar to
>people, and offer both a web based views and email based views. Post via
>web or email, read via web or email. Seems like a good solution to me.
>
>       But is it of value?
>
>       Will you sign up?
>
>       And all you GtD (and other systems) people can have a big party
>with yet another forum to talk about it :)
>
>             jeff
>
>--
>"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
>circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
>sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
>-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2657

From: egroups@R...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 10:57pm
Subject: Putting Shadow in Flash

 
A simple question: Is it OK to put the Shadow program in Flash. I'm 
using FlashPro and would like to gain some space in my RAM.

Thanks for such a great product!

Michael Rudnick
2658

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 10:57pm
Subject: Re: cross-file filtering

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 Tarasofsky@t... wrote:

> I am not a regular reader of the messages on this list, so apologies
> in advance if this has ever come up before.  I am very happy with the
> program, and am trying to use it more and more to replace my ToDo
> list.  However, what would make me even more happy would be if there
> was a way to do a filter on all shadow files at once, so that e.g. I

	There is not yet a way to do a multi-file query. I may add
something, and/or may add somethign to the desktop application. It comes
up once in awhile and we work out various ideas. I may make a side tool
that rips through Shadow files and generates a new Shadow file with items
matching your query request. I may do this after I build item to item
linking, so that the tool could generate a new list with links back to the
original item. This woudl be very powerful for auto todo-list generation.

> could see all the items in a single list that are due this week.  

	Many people use Shadow for all their data entry and recording. But
as events become very timely (due in a few days), they can link them to
the todo list or datebook (via the Link Manager in Shadow), and then use
the ToDo list as a flat cross-list view. ITs pretty handy until such time
as Shadow can handle the multi-file queries.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2659

From: Frankie Crowe  <fcrowe@i...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 11:01pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Si.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 9:40 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?


> 
> Everyone wants to be a more efficient user or power user of their
2660

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 11:09pm
Subject: Re: Putting Shadow in Flash

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 egroups@R... wrote:

> A simple question: Is it OK to put the Shadow program in Flash. I'm 
> using FlashPro and would like to gain some space in my RAM.

	Go for it; Shadow is 100% happy to be in flash, on cartridge, or
on memory stick. I've had Shadow in flash when I had a IIIc and now in my
memory cartridge on my Prism. It was designed to be happy this way.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2661

From: alix@s...
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 11:22pm
Subject: HotSync caught in loop with Shadow Plan

 
I haven't been able to HotSync my Visor today, as it keeps getting 
stuck in an endless loop with the status "Synchronizing Shadow Plan." 
Cancel doesn't work...I have to shutdown the HotSync with the Task 
Manager. It doesn't matter how long I wait for the HotSync to 
complete...nothing happens.

Since my last HotSync, I've added tasks to a previously empty task 
list and created a couple of simple and small checklists. All are set 
to sync to the desktop, but like I said, they aren't large.

Any suggestions? I really need to get data from other programs off my 
Visor!

Alix North
2662

From: Brenda  <brenda@b...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2001 11:13pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
At 06:40 AM 11/07/2001, you wrote:
>Will you sign up?

Well... I just joined this list last night, and I have not even tried 
Shadow but here is my opinion :-)

I would say to leave this group as is... and start a separate group to do 
the bug reports etc.

The reason I think it should be done this way, and not the other way 
around... is that I am guessing that there are fewer bug reports etc than 
good ideas etc on this list. So if the bug reports get moved off, that is 
the smaller one to be moving.

I hope that makes sense :-)

Brenda
2663

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 0:26am
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
Hi Jeff:

I tend to agree with you on this point.  So, having it jump around is 
not a good idea.  However, being able to traverse to the next item 
without dismissing the ME window will greatly speed input.  Is 
scrolling the outline list up a option on the Palm?

Norman

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	The problem is with palm interface guidelines. It is 
generally to
> be avoided to put dialogs at the top of the screen, or anywhere 
other than
> the bottom. People have muscle memorty and if its always at the 
bottom,
> they can work faster. Hacks may depend on it. Etc. If its a 100% 
desirable
> to have it jump around, I can do so, but it may cause problems with 
some
> unknown or future hack..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > Jeff:
> > 
> > Isn't it a bit simpler if "float" is limited to either bottom of 
> > screen or top of screen?  Just as long as the item being viewed 
is 
> > not obscured.  The current implementation downsizes the ME window 
if 
> > the selected item is near the bottom of the display.  Jumping the 
ME 
> > window to the top if the size of the ME window will be less than 
x 
> > might be useful even in the current implementation.  Another 
possible 
> > solution would to make the ME window draggable(tap-hold).  This 
would 
> > cover the cases not handled by above suggestion.  What ya think?
> > 
> > Norman
> > 
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > 	Hmm. Thought about it briefly, but it woudl likely amount to
> > > making the ME not into a window at all.. just remove the bottom 
row 
> > or two
> > > from the display and replace with the mini editor entry fields. 
> > Didnt'
> > > seem like a good trade off (losing a couple of rows). Making 
the 
> > window
> > > non-modal would require that it can float around (since it 
obscures 
> > whats
> > > under it), and that menus and buttons and allt hat stuff works 
with 
> > the ME
> > > around.. which isn't very Palm OS friendly.
> > > 
> > > 	You can double tap to bring up the mini editor, if that pref 
> > is
> > > set..
> > > 
> > > 	Hmm. Have to think about it.
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own 
> > micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he 
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2664

From: buetowmt@b...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 0:35am
Subject: REQUEST: Add a Note Stroke

 
From the Item Details: Can we get a Command "A" stroke to switch to 
the note. The reason is that saves having to pause and touch the 
screen while I'm flying along on my PPKeyboard.

Mark Buetow
2665

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:19am
Subject: Re: Annoying nags...

 
--On Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:31:58 -0500 Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

[...]

> 	There is no "evaluation period" per se because having one is
> unethical IMHO. (ie: I refuse to cause you data loss; if the app is only
> good for 2 weeks or a month, what happens to all the data you've entered
> into it after that period expires? Its locked in the app? I don't think
> thats ethical. So I let you define your own period, at the price of nags).

Hurray!  Shadow's eval method is way-cool... thanks, Jeff!

[...]

> 	I get a lot of compliments about the system; it is pretty non
> intrusive (most people don't load the app 15 times a day when evaluating
> it ;) and fair, since you get basicly full use of the system as long as
> you feel you need to.

I don't understand why *one* extra tap is such a big annoyance.  Geeze,
where's the fire? ;-)

How many times have you downloaded an app for eval, gotten "distracted"
for awhile, and the eval period is over when you run the app again?  Or
a new release with the feature you wanted most comes out the day after
your eval period ended so you can't try it?  Now *that's* what I call
annoying.

-lux
2666

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:39am
Subject: Re: Putting Shadow in Flash

 
--On Wednesday, November 07, 2001 18:09:02 -0500 Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 egroups@R... wrote:
>
>> A simple question: Is it OK to put the Shadow program in Flash. I'm
>> using FlashPro and would like to gain some space in my RAM.
>
> 	Go for it; Shadow is 100% happy to be in flash, on cartridge, or
> on memory stick. I've had Shadow in flash when I had a IIIc and now in my
> memory cartridge on my Prism. It was designed to be happy this way.

Shadow runs fine with a MemPlug SmartMedia adaptor and PiDirect, with
data files in RAM.  VFS support for data files could be nice, tho' it
might be tricky to implement.

-lux
2667

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:47am
Subject: Re: HotSync caught in loop with Shadow Plan

 
--On Wednesday, November 07, 2001 23:22:27 +0000 alix@s... wrote:

> I haven't been able to HotSync my Visor today, as it keeps getting
> stuck in an endless loop with the status "Synchronizing Shadow Plan."

[...]

> Any suggestions? I really need to get data from other programs off my
> Visor!

* Select "Custom..." from the HotSync Manager menu.
* Double-click "Shadow Plan" in the Conduit list to display conduit
  settings
* Check "Do nothing" as the Syncronize(sic) option.
* Check "Set as default" if you want it to "Do nothing" to remain the
  default for future HotSyncs
* Click "OK" to save the changes
* Invoke a HotSync

That oughta do it for ya.

(Jeff -- note the misspelling of "Syncronize" in the conduit settings)

-lux
2668

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 2:05am
Subject: RE: HotSync caught in loop with Shadow Plan

 
I regularly delete the xml files in the ShadowPlan160 directory if I know
that I have not made any changes on the desktop version so that they will be
sync'd exactly with the handheld.  I have never lost any data but too often
the sync messes up the layout - so until the bugs are worked out I just
delete the file on the desktop if I have done changes on the palm or delete
the palm file if I have done changes on the desktop.  Kind of like the
options on other programs to OverWrite the desktop or handheld in the
hotsync software.


-----Original Message-----
From: alix@s... [mailto:alix@s...]

I haven't been able to HotSync my Visor today, as it keeps getting
stuck in an endless loop with the status "Synchronizing Shadow Plan."
Cancel doesn't work...I have to shutdown the HotSync with the Task
Manager. It doesn't matter how long I wait for the HotSync to
complete...nothing happens.

Since my last HotSync, I've added tasks to a previously empty task
list and created a couple of simple and small checklists. All are set
to sync to the desktop, but like I said, they aren't large.

Any suggestions? I really need to get data from other programs off my
Visor!

Alix North



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2669

From: alix@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 3:19am
Subject: Re: HotSync caught in loop with Shadow Plan

 
Here's the update on my HotSync problem with Shadow Plan.

First, I did as Lux suggested and temporarily set Shadow Plan's 
conduit to "do nothing" instead of synchronizing. I synced my Visor 
and everything went fine -- I was able to get the other app data that 
I needed.

Next, I followed Gary's suggestion. I deleted the XML files in the 
Shadow 160 directory. Then I synced again (with Shadow Plan set to 
synchronize) and the sync worked. No glitches.

I think I tried a HotSync in between these steps and it didn't work, 
but at the moment I do not remember. I have no clue what the problem 
is and am just glad that it works again. 

Thank you to Lux and Gary for helping me out.

Alix
2670

From: Sue Thomas  <s.c-thomas@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 4:41am
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Count me in too.
2671

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 5:50am
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Neal Cordle" <ncordle@y...> wrote:
> 1.  ...Based on my experience with a program called ECCO, (may it 
rest in peace - it was more
> than slightly ahead of it's time)...(any Ecco refugees around?)

I am still galled that the PIM of choice at work is MS-Outlook.  
[ECCO folded the tent when MS-Outlook was added "free" to MS-Office.]

I had not thought of myself as a refugee, but that is truly the 
case.  

Peter R.

"All Accounting is creative."
2672

From: opheim@d...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:05am
Subject: Mark records private request

 
Well, as the subject line says, I'd like to see about having the 
option to designate an outline as private. I know that you feel that 
the Palm password protection system is a joke, Jeff, but there are 
times when you simply want a database to be hidden from view.
2673

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:06am
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	"multi-list" ops arent' high on my priority list as I don't 
get
> many requests for them, 

Add a request to the list.


and they're "hard" in the sense where its not too
> easily done with the way Shadow works and the amount of ram you get 
in
> Palms and such. I could make a multi-list scanner that reads 
through all
> your lists and generates a *new* list with data summaries, and 
maybe lets
> you jump bhack to the originals, but thats sort of nasty :P

Nasty or not, a list of items with the same tag, a data summary, and 
the ability to jump back to the originals would be great.

Even better would be the choice of scanning: all lists in all 
categories, limit the scan to all lists in the current category, or 
limit the scan to the current list.

Peter R.

"All Accounting is creative."
2674

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:08am
Subject: "Link Add" category remains "ö$".

 
In the Category in "Link Add" screen sometimes remains "ö$". 
[When the drop-down menu is touched it immediately changes to "ö$". 
Sometines it does not resolve to the chosen category.]

ShadowPlan 2.0 with a gazzilion hacks and growing

Peter R.

"All Accounting is creative."
2675

From: opheim@d...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:11am
Subject: Freezing branches

 
Particularly when I'm using Shadow for note-taking, there are times 
when the order of items is really important, and on occasion I've 
slipped and inadvertently moved one item to a place it doesn't 
belong. Would there be any way to create a feature to, say, freeze 
branches or otherwise lock a series of items into place?

Thanks! Great program!
2676

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 8:53am
Subject: Link Problems with LinkAdd--Slow to Freezing

 
Using ShadowPlan 2.0 with one Hack (FitalyStamp) rather than the 
usual gazillion.

i\In the Link Add window with Memo Selected and the program "set" to 
Memo Pad or to peditPro

=====
Category:
Changing Category was resulting in "ö$" on occasion. Ten changed to 
it occasionally resulting in "]*" with the southwest corner of the 
Help button missing. Now it results in the correct category.  But the 
southwest corner of the Help button missing for all categories 
selected

-----
Find:
Entering two characters in Find ties up the computer for periods 
ranging from a few seconds to 30 seconds--usually 5 seconds.  
Entering three ccharacters an take a minute.
2677

From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 9:18am
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" L ist?

 
>I think the "Recipes List" would be great! Some of us self employed types 
>don't have a big corporate structure to share ideas with. It would be a 
>wonderful help. Where do I sign up?


Randy, I'll let you in on a little secret. I've been in a rather big corporate structure for about 12 years, but ideas of this kind are rarely discussed and basically never shared. You'd think time management concepts would be on people's agenda, but I've not found it to be so. The focus on "busyness" and fast (but not necessarily good) solutions are blatant. The absolutely best way to get these dynamic groups going is to sign up with other propeller-heads who share your passion online.
 
I'd love to be on a list like that too, btw.
 
 
peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
 
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2678

From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 9:46am
Subject: RE: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
On the subject of the MiniEdior - is there a keyboard shortcut to close the window and enter the item? I'm thinking Ctrl-Enter could be a good one, perhaps? 
 
I do have a workaround involving the 1.6 version of the PPK-driver, but this obviously only works for this device. Since it now includes a "virtual mouse" I can place the pointer over the check-mark and use Alt-Enter to click the mark. I've found it works well for fast entries.
 
 
peace,
Tormod in Stockholm
http://www.airwhale.com/
 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2679

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 10:16am
Subject: Requests for Linking Changes

 
====
The app I use for memos is peditPro.  As I am sure you know, peditPro 
uses two databases Memo Pad's "memo" and its own "memo32". At the 
moment, there seems to be no advantage to selecting peditPro as only 
the categories and memos from the "memo" database are displayed.  

Other than the changing of the file size limit from 4k to 32k and the 
name the two databases are the same.

Many of my categories are the same for both databases because I will 
be working with small files in "memo" and assembling them into larger 
files in memo32"

peditPro has two launcher files pedit32Launch for "memo32" and 
pedit04Launch for "memo".  However, selecting either one still shows 
the files in "memo". Obviously I and my fellow "peditors", want to be 
able to access the memos in "memo32"

=====
Although both the application screen and the ref manual seems to 
agree that a foreign program can be "set" permanently for Address and 
another be "set" for Memo, that is not my experience.  I "set" a 
program for Address, then "set" one for Memo, then checked the 
program for Address.  The program highlighted was the one "set" for 
Memo, not the one "set" for Address.

Here I will ask for a preference to "set" the applicationS for 
Address and Memo along with "Preferred ToDo app" and "Preferred 
Datebook".  Currently, a non-alpha list of applications for any and 
all types of application pops up.  I want to be able to access 
peditPro's "memo32" database along with Memo Pad's "memo" database.  
Others might want to access Memo Pad sometimes and MemoPlus others.  
But we never want to access Graffiti, HotSync, Keyboard or 
MagicText.  Let us select multiple apps for both Address and Memo in 
preferences.  If a single app is chosen in preferences, the link 
would be established through that application, without forcing a 
selection/confirmation.

=====
When I using Link Manager -> Link Add, I almost never want to start 
with Address, but instead want to start with Memo. I would ask for a 
preference here, but what I really want is to have Memo and Address 
moved to the Link Manager screen.

Rather than Link -> Add -> Memo [Along with double checking the "set" 
app], I want Link -> Memo.
2680

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 11:03am
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" L ist?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Tormod.Halvorsen@s... wrote:
> >I think the "Recipes List" would be great! 

I also think a "Recipes List" would be great.  But, I am not sure 
that is what we would get with a second Shadow Group.  If that group 
operates like this one, there will be no "List", it too will be 
threads that popup grow change subjects and die.  Thread in that 
group restricted to using ShadowPlan would still be as hard to search 
as the thread in this group.  

Currently there are two folders under "Files" created by "coogo" pack 
in June.  One contains XML examples created by three different 
authors and the other various releases of ShadowPlan.  I suspect most 
of us did not know they were there as we have restricted ourselves to 
the messages.

I would like to see folders filled with "Recipes" srarted by and 
modified by the members of ShadowDicuss.  I propose we start with two 
folders: Getting Things Done and Rules for Creating and Modifiying 
Files and Folders.  Let it run for awhile and then make changes as 
needed.

I just posted two topics, "Link Problems with LinkAdd--Slow to 
Freezing" a straight bug report and "Requests for Linking Changes" an 
upgrade request that also happens to suggest ways of using Shadow.  I 
don't want to have to move to a separate group to look for a Recipe.  
I would like to check for them in Files and jump back to Messages for 
bug reports, suggested changes and to to discuss, ask questions and 
suggest changes to both the Receipes and to ShadowPlan.

My 2¢.

Peter R. 

I can't spell and my typing is lousy.
Is it too much to hope that my lousy typing
will correct my poor spelling?
2681

From: BeccaE  <beccaE@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 11:07am
Subject: RE: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
Great idea... where do I sign up? :)

Becca
2682

From: mail.telocity.com  <screamer@t...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 11:44am
Subject: Re: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
Where did you get the PPK 1.6 driver? I can only find PPK 1.5 on the Palm website.

Thanks,
Marty
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s... 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 3:46 AM
  Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement


  On the subject of the MiniEdior - is there a keyboard shortcut to close the window and enter the item? I'm thinking Ctrl-Enter could be a good one, perhaps? 

  I do have a workaround involving the 1.6 version of the PPK-driver, but this obviously only works for this device. Since it now includes a "virtual mouse" I can place the pointer over the check-mark and use Alt-Enter to click the mark. I've found it works well for fast entries.


  peace,
  Tormod in Stockholm
  http://www.airwhale.com/




  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2683

From: Kenneth S. Rhee  <polymath@m...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 11:59am
Subject: Re[2]: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
Hello mail.telocity.com,

Thursday, November 08, 2001, 6:44:04 AM, you wrote:

mtc> Where did you get the PPK 1.6 driver? I can only find PPK 1.5 on the Palm website.

mtc> Thanks,
mtc> Marty
mtc>   ----- Original Message ----- 
mtc>   From: Tormod.Halvorsen@s... 
mtc>   To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
mtc>   Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 3:46 AM
mtc>   Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement


mtc>   On the subject of the MiniEdior - is there a keyboard shortcut to close the window and enter the item? I'm thinking Ctrl-Enter could be a good one, perhaps? 

mtc>   I do have a workaround involving the 1.6 version of the PPK-driver, but this obviously only works for this device. Since it now includes a "virtual mouse" I can place the pointer over the
mtc> check-mark and use Alt-Enter to click the mark. I've found it works well for fast entries.


mtc>   peace,
mtc>   Tormod in Stockholm
mtc>   http://www.airwhale.com/




mtc>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


mtc>   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
mtc>   shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



mtc>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



mtc> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



mtc> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
mtc> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

mtc> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 


Here is the message I posted earlier:

Check out the latest Stowway keyboard driver!

It now include screen pointer (just like mouse pointer) and additional
features to select graphic boxes (such as Cancel, OK, etc).

You can download it at http://www.thinkoutside.com/support/clie/driver6784.html

-- 
Best regards,
 Kenneth                            mailto:polymath@m...
2684

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 0:52pm
Subject: Re: HotSync caught in loop with Shadow Plan

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 alix@s... wrote:

	In general, send this sort of thing to support@c...

> I haven't been able to HotSync my Visor today, as it keeps getting 
> stuck in an endless loop with the status "Synchronizing Shadow Plan." 
> Cancel doesn't work...I have to shutdown the HotSync with the Task 
> Manager. It doesn't matter how long I wait for the HotSync to 
> complete...nothing happens.

	There appears to be a very rare bug that can cause this. In
general it "just goes away" after a couple of syncs, apparently, though
I'm hoping to fix it pretty soon once I get a bit mroe data.

	To complete your Sync, just go to hotsync manager (right click on
the bottom right in Windows on the hotsync logo) and pick Custom and then
disable Shadow for the next sync or two.

	The DesktopRef will tell you how to find your ShadowPlan160
directory. Send me the lastsync.txt file (privately) if you don't have too
much private data in there. The lastsync.txt will give me some information
that I can use to narrow down where this issue is.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2685

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: Re: Re: REQUEST: MiniEditor enhancement

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I tend to agree with you on this point.  So, having it jump around is 
> not a good idea.  However, being able to traverse to the next item 
> without dismissing the ME window will greatly speed input.  Is 
> scrolling the outline list up a option on the Palm?

	I thought about that -- if you hit New while at the bottom item of
the screen, scroll the screen up a line or two so that the position where
the new item will show up is visible. If you double-tap on the bottom most
item to bring up ME, scroll up a couple lines to keep it visible. In my
brain though.. the ME shows the text, so if its covered.. its still
visible in the ME.

	Now, as to a up/down arrow in the ME itself, to scroll the
screen.. that would look ugly (push a teeny up arrow, ME closes, screen
scrolls, ME re-appears, or perhaps I coudl trick it into drawing without
removing the ME..hm..)

	The trick then is.. where to put up/down arrows in the ME? And
you'd need left/right, too.. so it'd be a mess. Don't think thats a good
idea either. We need a bigger screen so floating windows are okay :)

		jeff

> 
> Norman
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	The problem is with palm interface guidelines. It is 
> generally to
> > be avoided to put dialogs at the top of the screen, or anywhere 
> other than
> > the bottom. People have muscle memorty and if its always at the 
> bottom,
> > they can work faster. Hacks may depend on it. Etc. If its a 100% 
> desirable
> > to have it jump around, I can do so, but it may cause problems with 
> some
> > unknown or future hack..
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> > 
> > > Jeff:
> > > 
> > > Isn't it a bit simpler if "float" is limited to either bottom of 
> > > screen or top of screen?  Just as long as the item being viewed 
> is 
> > > not obscured.  The current implementation downsizes the ME window 
> if 
> > > the selected item is near the bottom of the display.  Jumping the 
> ME 
> > > window to the top if the size of the ME window will be less than 
> x 
> > > might be useful even in the current implementation.  Another 
> possible 
> > > solution would to make the ME window draggable(tap-hold).  This 
> would 
> > > cover the cases not handled by above suggestion.  What ya think?
> > > 
> > > Norman
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > > 	Hmm. Thought about it briefly, but it woudl likely amount to
> > > > making the ME not into a window at all.. just remove the bottom 
> row 
> > > or two
> > > > from the display and replace with the mini editor entry fields. 
> > > Didnt'
> > > > seem like a good trade off (losing a couple of rows). Making 
> the 
> > > window
> > > > non-modal would require that it can float around (since it 
> obscures 
> > > whats
> > > > under it), and that menus and buttons and allt hat stuff works 
> with 
> > > the ME
> > > > around.. which isn't very Palm OS friendly.
> > > > 
> > > > 	You can double tap to bring up the mini editor, if that pref 
> > > is
> > > > set..
> > > > 
> > > > 	Hmm. Have to think about it.
> > > > 
> > > > 		jeff
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
> own 
> > > micro
> > > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
> mean,
> > > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
> he 
> > > is?"
> > > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2686

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:00pm
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Add a Note Stroke

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 buetowmt@b... wrote:

> >From the Item Details: Can we get a Command "A" stroke to switch to 
> the note. The reason is that saves having to pause and touch the 
> screen while I'm flying along on my PPKeyboard.

	Does your keyboard have a "Note" button?

	Some do, and I think that works.

	I added a /A to Details for a bit at one time, and it caused some
issue.. I forget what. I'll have to think about it again.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2687

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:04pm
Subject: Re: Putting Shadow in Flash

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Lux Natura wrote:

> Shadow runs fine with a MemPlug SmartMedia adaptor and PiDirect, with
> data files in RAM.  VFS support for data files could be nice, tho' it
> might be tricky to implement.

	I've not bothered with VFS yet since few people actually have it
available and theres higher priority items to do which help everyone. (And
I don't have an OS4.x unit yet ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2688

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:06pm
Subject: Re: HotSync caught in loop with Shadow Plan

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Lux Natura wrote:

> (Jeff -- note the misspelling of "Syncronize" in the conduit settings)

	Argh! Well, I got it right 3 other times on that same panel :/

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2689

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 1:15pm
Subject: RE: HotSync caught in loop with Shadow Plan

 
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> I regularly delete the xml files in the ShadowPlan160 directory if I know
> that I have not made any changes on the desktop version so that they will be
> sync'd exactly with the handheld.  I have never lost any data but too often
> the sync messes up the layout - so until the bugs are worked out I just

	Actually, that would be pretty rare; a big pile of deletes and
news and changes all at one time can cause an item or two to get indented
when their parentage is unsure, but so far I've had a few hundred people
checking regularly without any problems whatsoever. (Don't be instilling
doubt and fear on people :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2690

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 2:25pm
Subject: Re: Mark records private request

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 opheim@d... wrote:

> Well, as the subject line says, I'd like to see about having the 
> option to designate an outline as private. I know that you feel that 
> the Palm password protection system is a joke, Jeff, but there are 
> times when you simply want a database to be hidden from view.

	ITs a joke in terms of security, but its not a jhoke in termsof
simple utility :)  Shadow files are separate databases and not records
within a database, so the palm protection system does not apply and
something else needs to be done. I've thought about a per-list password
that is essentially the same as palm security (no encryption), though. Or
PIN security (4 number password). *shrug*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2691

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 2:27pm
Subject: Re: Freezing branches

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 opheim@d... wrote:

> Particularly when I'm using Shadow for note-taking, there are times 
> when the order of items is really important, and on occasion I've 
> slipped and inadvertently moved one item to a place it doesn't 
> belong. Would there be any way to create a feature to, say, freeze 
> branches or otherwise lock a series of items into place?

	Its possible but isn't on my radar due ot other much more pressing
features..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2692

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 2:31pm
Subject: Re: Link Problems with LinkAdd--Slow to Freezing

 
The find speed is good for addresses?

		jeff

On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:

> Using ShadowPlan 2.0 with one Hack (FitalyStamp) rather than the 
> usual gazillion.
> 
> i\In the Link Add window with Memo Selected and the program "set" to 
> Memo Pad or to peditPro
> 
> =====
> Category:
> Changing Category was resulting in "ö$" on occasion. Ten changed to 
> it occasionally resulting in "]*" with the southwest corner of the 
> Help button missing. Now it results in the correct category.  But the 
> southwest corner of the Help button missing for all categories 
> selected
> 
> -----
> Find:
> Entering two characters in Find ties up the computer for periods 
> ranging from a few seconds to 30 seconds--usually 5 seconds.  
> Entering three ccharacters an take a minute.
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2693

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 2:43pm
Subject: Re: Requests for Linking Changes

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:

> peditPro has two launcher files pedit32Launch for "memo32" and 
> pedit04Launch for "memo".  However, selecting either one still shows 
> the files in "memo". Obviously I and my fellow "peditors", want to be 
> able to access the memos in "memo32"

	Shadow only knows about the memo database, and likely can only
link to the memos in it. (ie: I've not written code just for pedit memo32
support).

> Although both the application screen and the ref manual seems to 
> agree that a foreign program can be "set" permanently for Address and 
> another be "set" for Memo, that is not my experience.  I "set" a 
> program for Address, then "set" one for Memo, then checked the 
> program for Address.  The program highlighted was the one "set" for 
> Memo, not the one "set" for Address.

	Thats not a valid test; you need to actually "goto" to see where
they lead (currently anyway; you bring up a point that perhaps the program
name needs to be displayed. Really, I think I'll move Address and Memo
program settings into the Preferences screen, and leave Set Program for
more exotic link types)

> Here I will ask for a preference to "set" the applicationS for 
> Address and Memo along with "Preferred ToDo app" and "Preferred 
> Datebook".  Currently, a non-alpha list of applications for any and 
> all types of application pops up.  I want to be able to access 
> peditPro's "memo32" database along with Memo Pad's "memo" database.  

	Chosing the program to run to go to memo32's isn't the issue; its
supporting another database type. For you to pick links to memos in a
database has nothing to do with the linked program.. Shadow has to know
how to read that database, so I'd have to code another database reader for
memo32 it sounds.

> Others might want to access Memo Pad sometimes and MemoPlus others.  
> But we never want to access Graffiti, HotSync, Keyboard or 
> MagicText.  Let us select multiple apps for both Address and Memo in 
> preferences.  If a single app is chosen in preferences, the link 
> would be established through that application, without forcing a 
> selection/confirmation.

	You only need to Set Program once for each link type, and you
never need to set it again.

	Setting multiple apps would be a pain, and confuse people, and
would be annoying for people to want to do a goto and have a
target-program selector pop up.. usually for link gotos you want to goto
and return quick. 99% of people will never change from the basic built in
apps anyway, and those that do change will usually only have one preferred
app.. very few would need or want to have multiple memo apps depending on
some runtime consideration. ie: I buy a lot of apps, but I don't buy two
ToDo apps.

> When I using Link Manager -> Link Add, I almost never want to start 
> with Address, but instead want to start with Memo. I would ask for a 
> preference here, but what I really want is to have Memo and Address 
> moved to the Link Manager screen.

	How would that work? ie: Todo and Datebook are easy.. they can
exist, or not. You can have only one per item and that makes sense. But
you can have many addresses or memos per item, so they need a whole GUI of
their own to manage them.. hence the Add screen. There are additional link
types coming which will also need the Add screen.

> Rather than Link -> Add -> Memo [Along with double checking the "set" 
> app], I want Link -> Memo.

	Once you've set the Set Program, you never need to do it again for
that type of link.

	What do you want link -> memo to do?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2694

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 2:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" L ist?

 
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:

> Currently there are two folders under "Files" created by "coogo" pack 
> in June.  One contains XML examples created by three different 
> authors and the other various releases of ShadowPlan.  I suspect most 
> of us did not know they were there as we have restricted ourselves to 
> the messages.

	Theproblem with using the "Files" in yahoogroups, is that they are
not searchable or easily viewed and editted by most people. ie: Everyone
knows how to send email, but very very few people will ever bother to make
a file with their Shadow ideas and upload it to yahoogroups. But even if
everyone did, we'd end up with a library of 100 separate files, all not
easily searched or viewed.

> I just posted two topics, "Link Problems with LinkAdd--Slow to 
> Freezing" a straight bug report and "Requests for Linking Changes" an 

	I will not see bug reports posted this way, likely. (ie: I woudl ,
except I get 100-400 emails per day, and any free time I have is chewed up
by that. Browsing Files will be forgotten forever)

> upgrade request that also happens to suggest ways of using Shadow.  I 
> don't want to have to move to a separate group to look for a Recipe.  
> I would like to check for them in Files and jump back to Messages for 
> bug reports, suggested changes and to to discuss, ask questions and 
> suggest changes to both the Receipes and to ShadowPlan.

	This is a big concern. Having peopel join yet another mailing list
is also perhaps bad, but it seems like a good way to do things.

	Or I could put up a very simple web-message-board for good ideas,
but then it is another technology for people to use.

	Requiring people to use "RECIPE" in their subject lines won't
happen, either.

	Hmm.

	Any ideas? :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2695

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: RE: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes"L ist?

 
I very strongly suggest that you stick with the original idea for a new
list. If they're already here, they have a Yahoo ID, and it's terribly easy
to sign up for another group. That gives people more options too, like if
they want individual shadow-discuss emails, but only a daily digest or no
email for recipes.

I may be in the minority here, but I would be much, much less likely to
participate in a web forum. I have too much to do already, hence the need
for Shadow to help get things organized. I want to receive help and ideas
about using it more effectively in the easiest way possible, i.e. mail that
automatically gets routed to my mailbox.

Jen

PS You're right, putting RECIPE in the line won't work- people will forget,
and since the message would still be coming from the same address it would
be difficult to filter out into another folder. I'm casting my vote for a
new group!

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
	This is a big concern. Having peopel join yet another mailing list
is also perhaps bad, but it seems like a good way to do things.

	Or I could put up a very simple web-message-board for good ideas,
but then it is another technology for people to use.

	Requiring people to use "RECIPE" in their subject lines won't
happen, either.

	Hmm.

	Any ideas? :)
2696

From: piz@i...
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:07pm
Subject: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes" List?

 
[lurk mode off]

I would sign up immediately.

[lurk mode on]

Piz



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2697

From: Randy Fay  <randy@t...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:17pm
Subject: How to demote a bunch of items?

 
One thing I often do is decide I need deeper nesting of my outline.
Suddenly I have to demote a bunch of items below a new one.

How can I do this in one shot instead of moving each one individually? 
There seems to be no multiple-select facility on the PalmOS...

Thanks,
-Randy

-- 
Randy Fay
randy.fay@s...
303.409.8813
2698

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:20pm
Subject: RE: How to demote a bunch of items?

 
Why don't you set the clipboard to "hold many" and cut them all, then paste?

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Fay [mailto:randy@t...]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 12:18 PM
To: Shadow-Discuss
Subject: [shadow-discuss] How to demote a bunch of items?


One thing I often do is decide I need deeper nesting of my outline.
Suddenly I have to demote a bunch of items below a new one.

How can I do this in one shot instead of moving each one individually? 
There seems to be no multiple-select facility on the PalmOS...

Thanks,
-Randy

--
2699

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Freezing branches

 
Sounds more like a medical problem!  :)
Kevin

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: opheim@d... 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 10:11 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Freezing branches


  Particularly when I'm using Shadow for note-taking, there are times 
  when the order of items is really important, and on occasion I've 
  slipped and inadvertently moved one item to a place it doesn't 
  belong. Would there be any way to create a feature to, say, freeze 
  branches or otherwise lock a series of items into place?

  Thanks! Great program!



  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2700

From: Kevin Giberson  <kevin@g...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2001 6:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes"L ist?

 
I agree with Jen.  Need the mail, as no time for group discussions.
Kevin

Kevin S. Giberson, Civil Litigation Attorney
Bachan, Skillicorn & Marinovich
18 Alexander Street
Watsonville, CA  95076
(Santa Cruz and Monterey counties)
(831) 722-3861
Fax:  (831) 722-0347
Cellular with voice mailbox:  (831) 419-7551
kevin@g...

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****************************************************************************
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: PocketGoddess 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 7:05 AM
  Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: POLL: Want a "Shadow Usage Tips / Recipes"L ist?


  I very strongly suggest that you stick with the original idea for a new
  list. If they're already here, they have a Yahoo ID, and it's terribly easy
  to sign up for another group. That gives people more options too, like if
  they want individual shadow-discuss emails, but only a daily digest or no
  email for recipes.

  I may be in the minority here, but I would be much, much less likely to
  participate in a web forum. I have too much to do already, hence the need
  for Shadow to help get things organized. I want to receive help and ideas
  about using it more effectively in the easiest way possible, i.e. mail that
  automatically gets routed to my mailbox.

  Jen

  PS You're right, putting RECIPE in the line won't work- people will forget,
  and since the message would still be coming from the same address it would
  be difficult to filter out into another folder. I'm casting my vote for a
  new group!

  ---------------
  PocketGoddess
  http://www.pocketgoddess.com
  98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



  -----Original Message-----
        This is a big concern. Having peopel join yet another mailing list
  is also perhaps bad, but it seems like a good way to do things.

        Or I could put up a very simple web-message-board for good ideas,
  but then it is another technology for people to use.

        Requiring people to use "RECIPE" in their subject lines won't
  happen, either.

        Hmm.

        Any ideas? :)


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  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



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