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2501

From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 6:04pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
Because it's just so much easier to follow a thread in a standard 
usenet-type format using a client designed for that.  If Google picks 
up the group, it can also become part of their massive archive, which 
is great when you are seeking answers that may have already been 
provided by others.

I find that trying to follow threads here is a bit of a task 
sometimes.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 
> 	Out of curiousity.. why?
> 
> 	Outlook Express can do email, too ;)
> 
> 	I guess it keeps the content off your box, though. If I can 
find
> an easy nntp server, I may do it then. I got sick of toying with 
INN to
> get it working right ;)
2502

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 6:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
Yahoo Groups has a lot to recommend it-- specifically very easy web 
setup options-- there are quite a few people who just don't handle 
sending arcane commands to mailing list servers.  With Yahoo Groups I 
can set up everything on the web and have changes take effect 
immediately for switching to daily digest, no mail, individual emails, 
etc.  Plus the archives are easy to search.

But if you do want to switch to another system, please, please make 
sure that it has email access.  I don't want to have to log onto some 
web forum somewhere, worry about another password, etc.  I want 
everything to come to my mailbox automatically without having to think 
about it!

Certainly ties in with the whole point of Shadow-- making my life 
easier to manage!

> Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> a "mailing list"?
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in another
> > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see any
> > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > two cents    :)
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
~-->
> Internal Cell Phone Antenna
> Boosts reception on all cellular phones.
> Just $19.99 at Youcansave.com
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L11sED/PkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
2503

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically blocked 
newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that did 
not include email.

Jen

> Yes. I travel constantly, and find forums that are only web
> based to be of little value. I much prefer being able to 
> suck down my mail and read/respond as time permits. Newsgroups
> are another option that would permit this as well.
> 
> Quoting Alan (as0900@h...):
> > Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> > a "mailing list"?
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in 
another
> > > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see 
any
> > > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > > two cents    :)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
~-->
> Clever Cam is a pen sized digital camera, webcam, and mini-camcorder. 
Just $79.95 at Youcansave.com.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/F11sED/NkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
2504

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Alan wrote:

> Because it's just so much easier to follow a thread in a standard 
> usenet-type format using a client designed for that.  If Google picks 
> up the group, it can also become part of their massive archive, which 
> is great when you are seeking answers that may have already been 
> provided by others.

	Google should browse through the mailing lists already, I'd think.

> I find that trying to follow threads here is a bit of a task 
> sometimes.

	Hmm. That makes me wonder how I do it :)

	If I can find an easy nntp server and email gateway I'll do it,
but usually they're a huge chroe to configure..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2505

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
On 2001-11-01 at 11:02, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   I have considered setting up a nntp server with an email gateway,
> so you could read/post to the shadow forums via News.. but email pretty
> much takes care of it.

Yes, please keep the lists as email lists

            jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
2506

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
Quoting PocketGoddess (jen@p...):
> But if you do want to switch to another system, please, please make 
> sure that it has email access.  I don't want to have to log onto some 
> web forum somewhere, worry about another password, etc.  I want 
> everything to come to my mailbox automatically without having to think 
> about it!

Woah, Jen and I agree on something? This is a landmark day! Let me
make note of it in my Datebk4 Journal! <grin>

Seriously, I have to agree, I find that I rarely get to the web only
forums, no matter how useful the information might be.
2507

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
Quoting PocketGoddess (jen@p...):
> Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically blocked 
> newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that did 
> not include email.

I'm curious Jen, are they just not hosting newsgroups, or have they
prevented you from accessing external nntp servers as well by 
blocking the port?
2508

From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:01pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
OK, but what about free forums offered on Delphi.  Check out 
http://www.delphi.com/infinite_loops/messages for example.  Notice 
how nice it is to be able to follow threads, etc?   

Forums are completely configurable; the forum admin(s) can set up 
polls (i.e. do you prefer this feature or that feature), read-only 
forums, file sections, and even chats.Of course, files can be added 
as well, and links, etc. Remember that membership is free, accesable 
from any web browswer, and controllable by the forum admin(s).   

Jeff can even put a tab up top which takes users directly to the 
codejedi.com site, and let's you return back to the forums easily.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
> Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically 
blocked 
> newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that 
did 
> not include email.
>
2509

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
I don't plan on switching to anything; I didn't start this thread
;)

		jeff

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Yahoo Groups has a lot to recommend it-- specifically very easy web 
> setup options-- there are quite a few people who just don't handle 
> sending arcane commands to mailing list servers.  With Yahoo Groups I 
> can set up everything on the web and have changes take effect 
> immediately for switching to daily digest, no mail, individual emails, 
> etc.  Plus the archives are easy to search.
> 
> But if you do want to switch to another system, please, please make 
> sure that it has email access.  I don't want to have to log onto some 
> web forum somewhere, worry about another password, etc.  I want 
> everything to come to my mailbox automatically without having to think 
> about it!
> 
> Certainly ties in with the whole point of Shadow-- making my life 
> easier to manage!
> 
> > Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> > a "mailing list"?
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in another
> > > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see any
> > > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > > two cents    :)
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Internal Cell Phone Antenna
> > Boosts reception on all cellular phones.
> > Just $19.99 at Youcansave.com
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L11sED/PkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> jen@p...
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2510

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically blocked 
> newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that did 
> not include email.

	Just gabbing about options; I would only add news as an extra
gateway; ie: shadow-discuss is available on the web and in email.. why not
also in news? (also in, not replacing)

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> > Yes. I travel constantly, and find forums that are only web
> > based to be of little value. I much prefer being able to 
> > suck down my mail and read/respond as time permits. Newsgroups
> > are another option that would permit this as well.
> > 
> > Quoting Alan (as0900@h...):
> > > Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> > > a "mailing list"?
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > > > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in 
> another
> > > > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see 
> any
> > > > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > > > two cents    :)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Clever Cam is a pen sized digital camera, webcam, and mini-camcorder. 
> Just $79.95 at Youcansave.com.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/F11sED/NkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> jen@p...
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2511

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
For which you have to register, fill out a survey so that you can get 
targeted advertising, get regular junk mail "updates" from Delphi, and 
also potentially get tons of emails from advertisers as well.  No 
thanks.

Jen

> OK, but what about free forums offered on Delphi.  Check out 
> http://www.delphi.com/infinite_loops/messages for example.  Notice 
> how nice it is to be able to follow threads, etc?   
> 
> Forums are completely configurable; the forum admin(s) can set up 
> polls (i.e. do you prefer this feature or that feature), read-only 
> forums, file sections, and even chats.Of course, files can be added 
> as well, and links, etc. Remember that membership is free, accesable 
> from any web browswer, and controllable by the forum admin(s).   
> 
> Jeff can even put a tab up top which takes users directly to the 
> codejedi.com site, and let's you return back to the forums easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
> > Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically 
> blocked 
> > newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that 
> did 
> > not include email.
> > 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
~-->
> Cobra Gas Powered Scooter. Top speed exceeds 25 mph.
> Originally $599.95.
> Now $399.95 at Youcansave.com.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/K11sED/OkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
2512

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Alan wrote:

> OK, but what about free forums offered on Delphi.  Check out 
> http://www.delphi.com/infinite_loops/messages for example.  Notice 
> how nice it is to be able to follow threads, etc?   

	But does it also do mailing lists via prue email?

	At any rate, I'm not going to move shadow-discuss forum somewhere
else, since yahoogroups is pretty good, everyone likes it, and we've got a
year of history here. (ie: Lots of searchable materials and past
discussions). Also, migrating 800 people over woudl be a huge amount of
work :)

> Jeff can even put a tab up top which takes users directly to the 
> codejedi.com site, and let's you return back to the forums easily.

	YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2513

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:38pm
Subject: Sneaky!

 
A few people have asked so I thought I'd mention it. I outsmarted
you multi-desktop people - If you buy one desktop registration, it is for
your desktop use anywhere. The registration, since you enter it into your
handheld, carries with you. Sit down at a shadow desktop you've installed
at work, hit sync, and you're automatically registered there. You do not
need to buy a second desktop license for your use on a second desktop
computer.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2514

From: Barbara Heaney  <baheaney@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
>       YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)

Actually, you can see the messages threaded on the YG web.  Logging into 
YG, select the group that you want, then on the left select Messages then 
on the right (under the search achive box) is says " Date | Thread 
"  select Thread and there you go.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/messages/2483?threaded=1  Here 
is what it looks like.


:)
Barbara
2515

From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:54pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
Yeah, I know -- it's just not as easty to work with as nntp or even 
Delphi.

In the end, I'm here for the info and the guidance of others (and 
eventually, to be able to provide feedback beyond this kind of issue) 
so if everyone is happy, that's OK too!

I never really liked mailing lists -- just a personal preference I 
guess.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Barbara Heaney <baheaney@h...> wrote:
> 
> >       YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)
> 
> Actually, you can see the messages threaded on the YG web.  Logging 
into 
> YG, select the group that you want, then on the left select 
Messages then 
> on the right (under the search achive box) is says " Date | Thread 
> "  select Thread and there you go.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/messages/2483?
threaded=1  Here 
> is what it looks like.
> 
> 
> :)
> Barbara
2516

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:58pm
Subject: How come I am clueless?

 
I went to www.codejedi.com and downloaded setup20.zip
Extracted it and ran the setup20.exe
  - no desktop was installed.

I went to palmgear and selected each of the 3 different shadow 
downloads and extracted and installed.
  - no desktop installed.

I've also hotsynced with each of the FOUR attempted installs of the 
desktop.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your time!
2517

From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:00pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:

"For which you have to register, fill out a survey so that you can 
get 
targeted advertising, get regular junk mail "updates" from Delphi, 
and 
also potentially get tons of emails from advertisers as well.  No 
thanks."

That's not really the case.  You can opt out of email spam just by 
unchecking the box when you register, and you take the survey so that 
they can target the ads on the site when you're signed in, not to 
email you items.

Delphi was just an example.  I find for message exchange purposes, 
it's clear and easy to work with/follow, but being the newbie around 
here, it's not my intention to re-invent the wheel, especially if 
everyone is happy with YG.  

From what I can see, the postings here tend to have the "feel" 
and "flow" of a newsgroup or forum type environment and less of a 
mailing-list; that's why I see pluses for a different format.  

You'll recall that I started this section of the conversation this 
morning with a comment like "I'm just curious about why YG" or 
something remotely resembling that statement... :)
2518

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:02pm
Subject: OT: Forums for fun and profit

 
Another option is to look into changing your email client. I use
mutt myself, and it gives me complete email treading of this and
all of the mailing lists I'm subscribed to. Really the look is 
no different than a newsserver.

Quoting Alan (as0900@h...):
> Yeah, I know -- it's just not as easty to work with as nntp or even 
> Delphi.
> 
> In the end, I'm here for the info and the guidance of others (and 
> eventually, to be able to provide feedback beyond this kind of issue) 
> so if everyone is happy, that's OK too!
> 
> I never really liked mailing lists -- just a personal preference I 
> guess.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Barbara Heaney <baheaney@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > >       YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)
> > 
> > Actually, you can see the messages threaded on the YG web.  Logging 
> into 
> > YG, select the group that you want, then on the left select 
> Messages then 
> > on the right (under the search achive box) is says " Date | Thread 
> > "  select Thread and there you go.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/messages/2483?
> threaded=1  Here 
> > is what it looks like.
> > 
> > 
> > :)
> > Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
2519

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: Re: How come I am clueless?

 
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:

> I went to www.codejedi.com and downloaded setup20.zip

> Extracted it and ran the setup20.exe
>   - no desktop was installed.

	I bet it was :) Look in the Shadow Plan folder in your Start menu.

> I've also hotsynced with each of the FOUR attempted installs of the 
> desktop.

	So your handheld at least has Shadow Plan 2.0, 4 times over :)

	What install path did you give the installer? IF you look there,
do you see a bunch of files, including shadow.exe?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2520

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:08pm
Subject: Re: How come I am clueless?

 
Sure enough it was on my menu.  I use an OS that if you don't visit 
folders for long periods of time it doesn't show them in your menu.  
My thought was that if I updated files in that folder it would show 
the folder once installation was done.  Incorrect.

Thanks for your help.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:
> 
> > I went to www.codejedi.com and downloaded setup20.zip
> 
> > Extracted it and ran the setup20.exe
> >   - no desktop was installed.
> 
> 	I bet it was :) Look in the Shadow Plan folder in your Start 
menu.
> 
> > I've also hotsynced with each of the FOUR attempted installs of 
the 
> > desktop.
> 
> 	So your handheld at least has Shadow Plan 2.0, 4 times over :)
> 
> 	What install path did you give the installer? IF you look 
there,
> do you see a bunch of files, including shadow.exe?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2521

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 10:15pm
Subject: some wierd things

 
jeff
was just playing around with the new version. very sweet. will be getting
the desktop next paycheck :)

i noticed a few things that i thought were odd. i am almost positive
that these are not related to the most recent release and are quirks that
have been carried from the older versions. if these are features /
abilities / fixes yet to come then please add my vote to add them.

1. when entering a plan file with broken links i get a warning. when i
tap ok i get the message again, as you warned, when i go to reopen the
file. but if i tap on sever all links i still have broken links inthe file
and keep getting the message when i reopen the file. i have manually
removed the links to correct the problem for now. i might have a backup
copy for you to pick apart if you need it. the offending links were a todo
and a calendar link (one of each). i wa palying around with the feature
and not sure if i might have messed things up in the initial creation
process.

2. when importing my todo list why did shadow create 3 seperate files for
about 150-200 todo's? does it have to do with a clipboard limit? i created
the files a few times just to be sure i wasn't missing something. i ended
up doing the cut/paste thing to put them all into a new file.

ian
2522

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 10:04pm
Subject: Re: some wierd things

 
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Ian M. Sacklow wrote:

> 1. when entering a plan file with broken links i get a warning. when i
> tap ok i get the message again, as you warned, when i go to reopen the
> file. but if i tap on sever all links i still have broken links inthe file
> and keep getting the message when i reopen the file. i have manually
> removed the links to correct the problem for now. i might have a backup

	The "Sever" option doesn't currently mark the list as having been
changed.. so if you open a list, hit Sever All, then close the list, it
won't save the sever changes. You need to Sever All, then actually
*change* something, and then it will save the severs. Bug.

> 2. when importing my todo list why did shadow create 3 seperate files for
> about 150-200 todo's? does it have to do with a clipboard limit? i created
> the files a few times just to be sure i wasn't missing something. i ended
> up doing the cut/paste thing to put them all into a new file.

	Yeah; I'll have to try and improve it sometime, but essnetially
its due to various limits in the OS sometimes getting in the way. So
rather than spend a huge amount of time tunign it to each version of the
OS, I made it go with one of the older OS sets of limits, and that causes
it to break the files up into groups of 75 items or so, I think. Since
most people only import their todos once, its an acceptible hit. I plan on
adding a Merge option to make it bearable.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2523

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 10:29pm
Subject: Re: some wierd things

 
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:04:23 -0500 (EST)
> From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] some wierd things
> 
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Ian M. Sacklow wrote:
> 
> > 1. when entering a plan file with broken links i get a warning. when i
> > tap ok i get the message again, as you warned, when i go to reopen the
> > file. but if i tap on sever all links i still have broken links inthe file
> > and keep getting the message when i reopen the file. i have manually
> > removed the links to correct the problem for now. i might have a backup
> 
> 	The "Sever" option doesn't currently mark the list as having been
> changed.. so if you open a list, hit Sever All, then close the list, it
> won't save the sever changes. You need to Sever All, then actually
> *change* something, and then it will save the severs. Bug.
> 

will give that a try in the future until it is "fixed". only had one file
that was like that so it was no real big deal. still trying to get things
organized and out of my older programs.

> > 2. when importing my todo list why did shadow create 3 seperate files for
> > about 150-200 todo's? does it have to do with a clipboard limit? i created
> > the files a few times just to be sure i wasn't missing something. i ended
> > up doing the cut/paste thing to put them all into a new file.
> 
> 	Yeah; I'll have to try and improve it sometime, but essnetially
> its due to various limits in the OS sometimes getting in the way. So
> rather than spend a huge amount of time tunign it to each version of the
> OS, I made it go with one of the older OS sets of limits, and that causes
> it to break the files up into groups of 75 items or so, I think. Since
> most people only import their todos once, its an acceptible hit. I plan on
> adding a Merge option to make it bearable.

makes sense and very true. you do it once and that is it. in a way this is
forcing me to look for duplication between all my lists

ian

> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
2524

From: psplond@b...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:11am
Subject: Changes to file on desktop won't show up on handheld

 
I got my registration code and got the desktop registered. After 
reading the messages concerning this problem on this list, I assumed 
that registering would take care of this problem. But I pasted some 
notes into some of the entries on the desktop, and told it to send to 
HH, but the notes do not show up on my Palm. What am I doing wrong??? 
Please help!!!

Psalm
2525

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:46am
Subject: Re: Changes to file on desktop won't show up on handheld

 
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 psplond@b... wrote:

> I got my registration code and got the desktop registered. After 
> reading the messages concerning this problem on this list, I assumed 
> that registering would take care of this problem. But I pasted some 
> notes into some of the entries on the desktop, and told it to send to 
> HH, but the notes do not show up on my Palm. What am I doing wrong??? 
> Please help!!!

	Is the list Sync Pref set? (Likely it is if you got it to download
to your handheld. On the handheld, go to List pulldown menu and pick
Prefs, and make sure the [] Sync checkbox is checked).

	Otherwise, find the lastsync.txt file and send it to me privately
and I'll look and see whats wrong. The documentation
(DesktopRefGuide) details how to find the debug log.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2526

From: psplond@b...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:51am
Subject: Fatal Alert when trying to delete a list

 
Unfortunately, I have encountered another problem. While testing to 
see if I could sync other files, I created a test file on the palm. I 
was able to see it on the desktop and all, but now when I try to 
delete it on the Palm, I get this message:

Fatal Alert
DataMgr.c,Line:8589,Index out of range <Reset>

What could be wrong?
2527

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:58am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert when trying to delete a list

 
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 psplond@b... wrote:

> Unfortunately, I have encountered another problem. While testing to 
> see if I could sync other files, I created a test file on the palm. I 

	btw.. if a list is open in the desktop, it will be skipped during
Sync since it isn't sure if you wish to keep your changes or not.

> was able to see it on the desktop and all, but now when I try to 
> delete it on the Palm, I get this message:
> 
> Fatal Alert
> DataMgr.c,Line:8589,Index out of range <Reset>

	Delete it, but don't have Shadow remove links in other lists to
it. This is a bug thats been in the handheld since about 1.5 I suspect,
but its pretty rare and I've been unable to reproduce it :/ I'm actively
tracking this one down.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2528

From: psplond@b...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 3:01am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert when trying to delete a list

 
Thanks, that worked. I will email you the lastsync log to the support 
address. 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 psplond@b... wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, I have encountered another problem. While testing 
to 
> > see if I could sync other files, I created a test file on the 
palm. I 
> 
> 	btw.. if a list is open in the desktop, it will be skipped 
during
> Sync since it isn't sure if you wish to keep your changes or not.
> 
> > was able to see it on the desktop and all, but now when I try to 
> > delete it on the Palm, I get this message:
> > 
> > Fatal Alert
> > DataMgr.c,Line:8589,Index out of range <Reset>
> 
> 	Delete it, but don't have Shadow remove links in other lists 
to
> it. This is a bug thats been in the handheld since about 1.5 I 
suspect,
> but its pretty rare and I've been unable to reproduce it :/ I'm 
actively
> tracking this one down.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2529

From: jacques@t...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 9:38am
Subject: Re: Three small requests for MiniEditor

 
Le 1 Nov 2001, ā 8:15, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> > control the position of the 
> > miniEditor window by tapping outside it 
> 
>  Thats a neat idea! We'd discussed having a tap-outside close it,
> but it was an even user split between that being a OK or Cancel. Making it
> move the window would be a useful extensions.

I like the idea, but not the mean :

I'd prefer to keep the mini editor fixed where it is, but be able to scroll the 
outline  "behind",

and

I would enjoy if a single tap outside mini editor dismissed it.


But I don't wan't to initiate a dispute over that ;-))





Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr
2530

From: alwaysenuf@y...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:21pm
Subject: International characters Fix

 
Hi Jeff, 
Thanks for all your hard work.  Please know that I do appreciate your 
tireless support of this product.  I feel reaally petty being such a 
spoiler/complainer, But... 

I got the reg code and now i have a file or two on the desktop and a 
backup folder that appears to be empty, but... the shadow files won't 
open.  I get an error message about International Characters.... 
(Maybe not well formed at line ##) I didn't even know I had 'em. ;) 
Consequently I still can't use the desktop... Any idea when the 
International Characters problem will be addressed?

Thanks for your attentions- and for putting together what I'm sure is 
a Fantastic product(... whenever i get to use it...{{SMILE}}) In the 
meantime, I'll be...

resolving my Karmic issues with Patience!
ms
2531

From: pw@w...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:36pm
Subject: Using PiDirectVFS

 
Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505). 
When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the 
handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move 
Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.

Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information 
must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.

The good thing is that a subsequent hotsync, with Shadow back on the 
card, did not unregister it.

Peter
2532

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:50pm
Subject: Re: International characters Fix

 
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 alwaysenuf@y... wrote:

> I got the reg code and now i have a file or two on the desktop and a 
> backup folder that appears to be empty, but... the shadow files won't 
> open.  I get an error message about International Characters.... 
> (Maybe not well formed at line ##) I didn't even know I had 'em. ;) 
> Consequently I still can't use the desktop... Any idea when the 
> International Characters problem will be addressed?

	There will be an international friendly version hopefully in 2-3
weeks. IF you want to help out, send me the XML file that has the load
problem, and the corresponding PDB backup. It'll help me track down the
unsupported character.

> Thanks for your attentions- and for putting together what I'm sure is 
> a Fantastic product(... whenever i get to use it...{{SMILE}}) In the 
> meantime, I'll be...

	You can check that line number in the XML file, if you're
adventurous, and then from the text you can find the corresponding item in
your handheld, and see whats causing the problem, and then remove the
character and the XML file. Then sync and you're all set.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2533

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

 
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 pw@w... wrote:

> Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505). 
> When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the 
> handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move 
> Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.
> 
> Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information 
> must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.
> 
> The good thing is that a subsequent hotsync, with Shadow back on the 
> card, did not unregister it.

	I really have no idea ;) If you still have the lastsync.txt's, you
could forward them over and maybe there will besome useful notes therein.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2534

From: marc_lehman@m...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 4:06pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

 
On the other hand, I run Shadow off a Memory Stick in my Clie 760 with 
PiDirect, and my desktop registered normally.  Which version of PiDirect 
are you using?  I'm on 1.3 final which just released in the last couple 
of days.

Let me know if I can be of any debugging assistance here.

Marc

On Friday, November 2, 2001, at 07:51 AM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 pw@w... wrote:
>
> > Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505).
> > When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the
> > handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move
> > Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.
> >
> > Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information
> > must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.
> >
> > The good thing is that a subsequent hotsync, with Shadow back on the
> > card, did not unregister it.
>
>       I really have no idea ;) If you still have the lastsync.txt's, you
> could forward them over and maybe there will besome useful notes 
> therein.
>
>             jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>

>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2535

From: Steve O.  <misterclean1@e...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 4:49pm
Subject: Read the Quick Reference!

 
I keep seeing posts asking questions about the desktop which are clearly
answered in the Quick Reference or in the manual, e.g. the "sync" checkbox.
Jeff has produced wonderfully lucid help materials.  Let's us 'em, rather
than buggin Jeff and taking him away from his work on DT 2.0.  :-}

It's been said before, but I want to repeat how great it is to be part of
the development of Shadow according to Jeff's amazing ingenuity and
unprecedented responsiveness to his customers.  But let's not abuse the
man's responsiveness.  Read the manuals!

All the Best to Shadowplanners everywhere!

-- Steve in VB
2536

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 7:32pm
Subject: Notes icon

 
The notes icon is behaving eratically, or so it seems.  On a single 
list, the icon is displayed for some items, but not for others.  As a 
result, some of my finest work remains hidden.

Is there a solution?
2537

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Notes icon

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., grumpstone@y... wrote:
> 
> The notes icon is behaving eratically, or so it seems.  On a single 
> list, the icon is displayed for some items, but not for others.  As 
a 
> result, some of my finest work remains hidden.
> 
> Is there a solution?


Yes, there is a solution, and I figured it out myself.

In case you care, I was using a "custom" list with the notes icon 
supressed.  The notes icon was showing up on "checklist" items, but 
not on "custom" items.  So, I unchecked the "supresss notes icon" 
option for the custom list.  Shazam.

That notes icon is a new discovery.  Really useful....
2538

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Notes icon

 
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> The notes icon is behaving eratically, or so it seems.  On a single 
> list, the icon is displayed for some items, but not for others.  As a 
> result, some of my finest work remains hidden.
> 
> Is there a solution?

	I've never heard of this before. If there is a note, the note icon
will appear. That code hasn't changed in more than a year...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2539

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Notes icon

 
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> Yes, there is a solution, and I figured it out myself.
> 
> In case you care, I was using a "custom" list with the notes icon 
> supressed.  The notes icon was showing up on "checklist" items, but 
> not on "custom" items.  So, I unchecked the "supresss notes icon" 
> option for the custom list.  Shazam.
> 
> That notes icon is a new discovery.  Really useful....

	Ahh, good call; yeah, you have to watch out for the
customizations. They're very useful, but if you're not careful, they'll
confuse you :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2540

From: Tom Moughan  <tommoughan@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 10:37pm
Subject: Re: can't load revised XML-> LAST THING: extension password quesstion

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > Jeff: Are there special characters that I should stay away from 
in 
> > the text or Memo sections of the desktop that would "polute" the 
XML 
> > format??  or what should I look for?
> 
> 	The 1.0 application gets confused by *some* non-ASCII
> characters. Which ones depends on various things and also your 
Windows OS
> version. (I expect another release in 2 weeks to fix international
> character problems).
> 
> 	What sort of non-ASCII chars were you writing?
> 
> 		jeff
>

OK, my problem was trying to load up the handheld with a project it 
already had.  There were no special characters.  I was just guessing 
that I created a bad XML file when I saved my changes...

I did have a time entering my extension password on the handheld.  It 
was not accepted initially.  I rekeyed the handheld only password, 
and I think I put the extension one in after that... accessed the 
Special screen, came back .. very confused...

What's the right sequence to enter the extension password, and do I 
have to go through the rekey the registration number step with each 
upgrade?


Thanks!
>> Tom
2541

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 1:10am
Subject: Re: Re: can't load revised XML-> LAST THING: extension password quesstion

 
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001, Tom  Moughan wrote:

> What's the right sequence to enter the extension password, and do I 
> have to go through the rekey the registration number step with each 
> upgrade?

	Its covered in the manuals, but for expansion pack..

	Your Shadow Plan must be registered already. If it is not, you
must do so.

	Register your expansion.

	You're done.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2542

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 8:20am
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
--On Thursday, November 01, 2001 20:20:43 +0100 Jan Erik Moström <lists@m...> wrote:

> On 2001-11-01 at 11:02, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
>>   I have considered setting up a nntp server with an email gateway,
>> so you could read/post to the shadow forums via News.. but email pretty
>> much takes care of it.
>
> Yes, please keep the lists as email lists

I also prefer receiving shadow-discuss as e-mail rather than using an
awkward and slower web interface.  Unless I've missed something, there's
no way to keep track of which messages you've read with the Yahoo! Groups
web interface.

-lux
2543

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 8:56am
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

 
--On Friday, November 02, 2001 14:36:15 +0000 pw@w... wrote:

> Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505).
> When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the
> handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move
> Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.
>
> Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information
> must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.

[...]

When using Visor-only PiDirect software with a MemPlug adaptor it's
sometimes necessary to first run an application from RAM before it's
run from removable media.  I don't recall specific details from when
it was discussed on the memplug Yahoo! Group a few months ago; you
could search here:

  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/memplug>

The PiDirectVFS group might also be helpful:

  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pidirectvfs_group>

Have fun,

-lux
2544

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 9:02am
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

 
--On Friday, November 02, 2001 09:06:14 -0700 marc_lehman@m... wrote:

> On the other hand, I run Shadow off a Memory Stick in my Clie 760 with
> PiDirect,  [...]

You must mean PiDirectVFS since "plain" PiDirect only runs with MemPlug Springboard adaptors on Visors and doesn't require VFS.  PiDirect is
included with MemPlug hardware; PiDirectVFS is a shareware product.

-lux
2545

From: pw@w...
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 3:18pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 pw@w... wrote:
> 
> 	I really have no idea ;) If you still have the 
> lastsync.txt's, you
> could forward them over and maybe there will besome useful notes
> therein.

Sorry, long overwritten. I will try to remember to watch it if I ever 
have to go through it again.

Peter
2546

From: pw@w...
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., marc_lehman@m... wrote:
> On the other hand, I run Shadow off a Memory Stick in my Clie 760 
with 
> PiDirect, and my desktop registered normally.  Which version of 
PiDirect 
> are you using?  I'm on 1.3 final which just released in the last 
couple 
> of days.
> 
> Let me know if I can be of any debugging assistance here.

Marc, 

thanks, it all seems fine now and no debugging needed. I am also 
running 1.3 final.

Peter
2547

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
I don't understand why this is an issue. As far as I know, there is 
an option on yahoo groups to have new messages emailed to you. In 
fact that's how I get them. I only go to the group to retrieve a 
message that I recall having seen and have deleted. And in that sense 
the group is a useful archive. Far, far easier to use than some 
hard-to-remember-when-you-need-it command emailed to the listserve.

At 22:20 -1000 01/11/02, Lux Natura wrote:
>--On Thursday, November 01, 2001 20:20:43 +0100 Jan Erik Moström 
><lists@m...> wrote:
>
>>  On 2001-11-01 at 11:02, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>>
>>>    I have considered setting up a nntp server with an email gateway,
>>>  so you could read/post to the shadow forums via News.. but email pretty
>>>  much takes care of it.
>>
>>  Yes, please keep the lists as email lists
>
>I also prefer receiving shadow-discuss as e-mail rather than using an
>awkward and slower web interface.  Unless I've missed something, there's
>no way to keep track of which messages you've read with the Yahoo! Groups
>web interface.
>
>-lux
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


--
2548

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 10:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

 
--On Saturday, November 03, 2001 09:23:20 -0700 Ken Gordon <ksg@t...> wrote:

> I don't understand why this is an issue.  [...]

Sent private reply.

-lux
2549

From: kevinprice@u...
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 3:25am
Subject: Handheld file only?

 
Can someone please post or email me the files needed for the handheld only?  The handheld-only download on PalmGear and CodeJedi appear to be the same size as the handheld/desktop download (2.18 MB).

Either .zip or .prc/.pdb's are okay.

Thanks,

Kevin
2550

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 3:35am
Subject: Re: Handheld file only?

 
On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 kevinprice@u... wrote:

> Can someone please post or email me the files needed for the handheld
> only?  The handheld-only download on PalmGear and CodeJedi appear to
> be the same size as the handheld/desktop download (2.18 MB).

	All 2.0 downloads are the same; just grab it and install the
Shadow.prc manually if you do not wish to use the Setup20.exe program.
(ie: I used to have 2 different distributions to minimize download times
for those who didn't want the Windows stuff. But then I got Windows people
asking me which to download all the time). If you want a smaller release,
I'll be making one up soon since now I'm getting the request for a smaller
download ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2551

From: Tom Moughan  <tommoughan@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 4:10am
Subject: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

 
I was building a large project by linking my exsting todos, using NEW 
From...  I was able to bring the same ToDo in twice?  Should this be 
really allowed?

Once done, the first time accidentally, I unlinked one of the two 
duplicates, but left the duplicates in the project, one linked, one 
not, hit the "X" icon.. and I got:  

Fatal Alert
MemoryMgr.c, Line:4342
Null Handle

I have no Hacks running.  I repeated the sequence, but I saved the 
project after linking in the first new task, then saved again after 
linking in the duplicate, then opened, unlinked, DONE... and same 
FATAL error.

I assume my recommended action was to delete the duplicate. ?  Is a 
warning possible when I try to unknowingly import a duplicate?
>> Tom
2552

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 4:46am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

 
On Sun, 4 Nov 2001, Tom  Moughan wrote:

> I was building a large project by linking my exsting todos, using NEW 
> From...  I was able to bring the same ToDo in twice?  Should this be 
> really allowed?

	Yes. ie: I have several times linked a todo into 3 or 4 separate
lists -- it makes sense.

	Second, how would Shadow know otherwise? ie: You hit New From, you
pick a Todo, is Shadow to scan all of your lists right then to see if
you've linked it before? Impossible. 

	the only way to do so is to have Shadow pollute your Notes with
Shadow markings (a la Datebook). But I really dislike polluting Notes :/

> Once done, the first time accidentally, I unlinked one of the two 
> duplicates, but left the duplicates in the project, one linked, one 
> not, hit the "X" icon.. and I got:  
> 
> Fatal Alert
> MemoryMgr.c, Line:4342
> Null Handle

	How did you unlink it? IF you "delete link entirely" or the like,
then you killed the link.

	Obviously I need to do some refertial integrity checks for
multiple linked items in the same list.

> I assume my recommended action was to delete the duplicate. ?  Is a 
> warning possible when I try to unknowingly import a duplicate?

	I think for now when you have a double link, you must sever and
not delete the link. Deleting the link causes the other link to be left
orphaned (broken), but Shadow doesn't check for newly-broken while saving.

		jeff

> >> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2553

From: Todd Henion  <henion@t...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 5:09am
Subject: Re: How come I am clueless? Digest Number 277

 
Jeff's product is polite enough not to smatter the desktop, tray and menus
with aliases/shortcuts. Unlike most wintel software, it installs where it
should be and awaits your setup needs.
Software should have a philosophy; which is why I love Shadow.
As always, 
Todd 
> Subject: Re: How come I am clueless?
> 
> Sure enough it was on my menu.  I use an OS that if you don't visit
> folders for long periods of time it doesn't show them in your menu.
> My thought was that if I updated files in that folder it would show
> the folder once installation was done.  Incorrect.
> 
> Thanks for your help.
2554

From: Tom Moughan  <tommoughan@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 3:01am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

 
>How did you unlink it? IF you "delete link entirely" or the like, 
then you killed the link.
> 
>Obviously I need to do some refertial integrity checks for
> multiple linked items in the same list.

I unlinked by unchecking the "To Do Link Column" from my custom view.

Thanks for your reply.  

Three "future" suggestions for the New From... selection box:

(1) NOT list a to do in the New From... function if it is already in 
the current open project? or show it uniquely somehow..[X] ?

(2) I know that the to dos listed in this function are limited by the 
week of the target date.  The ones without a target date (my personal 
challenge) are not listed... possibly a NO DATE option when you "pick 
week" or a NO DATE check box similar to the LINK checkbox.

>> Tom

(3) After you select and insert the new to do, have it come in with 
the hierarchy assigned.  Now one has to demote/promote to have it 
assigned currently...
2555

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 4:26am
Subject: Re: Re: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Tom  Moughan wrote:

> >Obviously I need to do some refertial integrity checks for
> > multiple linked items in the same list.
> 
> I unlinked by unchecking the "To Do Link Column" from my custom view.

	Thats "delete link entirely" equivalent. It removes the link.

> (1) NOT list a to do in the New From... function if it is already in 
> the current open project? or show it uniquely somehow..[X] ?

	Can't check to see if its in the current project; ie: Your project
could be 500 items and showing 10 todos on screen, after checking 500
items, is 5000 lookups which would take awhile.

> (2) I know that the to dos listed in this function are limited by the 
> week of the target date.  The ones without a target date (my personal 
> challenge) are not listed... possibly a NO DATE option when you "pick 
> week" or a NO DATE check box similar to the LINK checkbox.

	I think the dateless ones are always listed? There are some issues
with New From to be resolved, however :/

> (3) After you select and insert the new to do, have it come in with 
> the hierarchy assigned.  Now one has to demote/promote to have it 
> assigned currently...

	I think it follows the rules of New (ie: Follows the selected
item, or the end of the list). I coudl be wrong though.. I've not looked
at that part of the code in ages :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2556

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 4:58pm
Subject: Tags! Tags! Tags!

 
Need I say more?!

(Well actually I will...)
I miss ShadowPlan fiercely and want to come back home to it, but I had
to abandon it a while back when the much requested tags nevered showed
up and my outlines got too unwieldy without them.  Tags were to be the
answer to what I really wanted, that dead horse known as line item
categories.  So far we have gotten no line item categories, no tags.

Meanwhile, I am now using another outliner which does have filterable
line item categories (that coordinate/sync to ToDo categories).  In
addition, it handles import of ToDos (the equivalent of Shadow's 'New
from') exactly as I wish:  It allows the option to filter the ToDo
viewer/picker by category, displays more ToDos on its picker screen than
Shadow does,   scrolls through the ToDo list with no detectable delay in
displaying ToDos, and allows import/linking of multiple items into the
Outline at one time, rather than one item at a time.

Unfortunately, the tradeoff is I lose so many other wonderful features
unique to Shadow including it's snappiness.  For me, the need for these
two features (filterable line item categories--or at least tags--and a
snappier, more powerful 'New From') are so vital that I had to switch.
But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.

Please help me come back home.  I want to try and buy Shadow's Desktop
as well.  I want to share in the recent celebration.  Please come and
get me.  Please come back for me.

If this sounds desperate, it's because I am.

Thank you,
Frieda
2557

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 5:05pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Frieda King wrote:

> (Well actually I will...)
> I miss ShadowPlan fiercely and want to come back home to it, but I had
> to abandon it a while back when the much requested tags nevered showed
> up and my outlines got too unwieldy without them.  Tags were to be the
> answer to what I really wanted, that dead horse known as line item
> categories.  So far we have gotten no line item categories, no tags.

	Much requested, but about 1/100th as much requested as desktop
support. Once the desktop is finished settling down, I'll get back to big
palm-side advances like tags :) (ie: Desktop still needs some
international fixes, and theres the Mac release.) I have only so much time
:)

> But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.

	I'll do the best I can :)

> Please help me come back home.  I want to try and buy Shadow's Desktop
> as well.  I want to share in the recent celebration.  Please come and
> get me.  Please come back for me.
> 
> If this sounds desperate, it's because I am.

	I'll see what I can do, but I'm done with 18 hour workdays for
awhile :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2558

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 5:41pm
Subject: Dead horse?

 
I thought I would try once again to appeal for line item categories.
Here why I need them.

The stock PalmOS ToDo list has always been inadequate for my needs.  Had
it been adequate, I would probably have no
need for ShadowPlan nor any other ToDo enhancers or Outliners.  With the
rather recent development of Palm Outliners (1st
Life Balance, then Progect and Shadow) to offer flat views of the ToDo
list, I would rather work inside the Outliner and
select the various views and filters of the ToDo list as needed.

Since currently no one Outliner is developed fully enough to be
sufficient in and of itself for my needs, I use several
Outliners to view the same information in different ways.  For some
users, ShadowPlan is just a staging area to sync items to
view in the ToDo list later.  For me, Shadow is both the staging and the
viewing area .  The stock ToDo list is just a go
between to sync this same information into the different Outliners to
make use of their particular strengths and unique
features.

The beauty is the stock ToDo makes it possible to keep the info synced
between the various apps.  When I make a change to
the priority, description, date or completion status in one app, it is
changed in all the other apps that are viewing or syncing
to the stock ToDo list including Shadow.  But when I make a change to
the category in one app, it is changed in all the other
apps ...except Shadow.  When the info gets to Shadow, I lose (mind you)
one of the features of the already inadequate stock
ToDo list, the ability to filter the list by category.  All of the other
ToDo Enhancement or Outliner apps that I use give you at
least all of the minimum ToDo features, then offer their additional
enhancements such as filters, alarms, views, repeats,
places, linking.

Yes, do add your planned tags.  They will be a welcome & unique
enhancement.  But do it in addition to (and after) adding
ToDo synchronized line item categories, not instead of.

Sorry for such a long post, but I had to get this out as I have wanted
this feature from day 1 of trying Shadow 1 year ago and
thought it was such an intuitive to include at least the minimum
features of ToDo that I am shocked that I still even have to
request it.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Thank you,
Frieda
2559

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 5:49pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

 
Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>         Much requested, but about 1/100th as much requested as desktop
> support. Once the desktop is finished settling down, I'll get back to big
> palm-side advances like tags :) (ie: Desktop still needs some
> international fixes, and theres the Mac release.) I have only so much time
> :)
>

Yes.  Realizing that is what has helped me to try to be patient.  But I think
it's the other little Palm enhancements that get
slipped in (such as pseudo inline-editting) that get to me (though obviously
this was probably quicker to do than tags)  Like
the desktop, it (inline-editting) was, for me, just a nice-to-have feature not
a must-have so while I am sure I will love it, I
still feel 'needy'.

>
> > But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.
>
>         I'll do the best I can :)
>

No doubt.

>         I'll see what I can do, but I'm done with 18 hour workdays for
> awhile :/
>
>                 jeff

Yes, do slow it down.  I don't want you to burn out before you get to tags ;-)

Just needed reassurance that Tags are on the way.
Thanks for listening as always,
Frieda
2560

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

 
I created a list in desktop.  Synced with my palm; changed layout and 
name. Synced with DT; added new items.  Removed original file with 
old name.  Synced with Palm and got the message in the subject.
2561

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

 
So, Frieda,

I think what I hear you saying is that you'd like to
have tags? ;-)

(Just trying out some reflective listening skills) :P

Neal


--- Frieda King <freking@p...> wrote:
> Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 
> >         Much requested, but about 1/100th as much
> requested as desktop
> > support. Once the desktop is finished settling
> down, I'll get back to big
> > palm-side advances like tags :) (ie: Desktop still
> needs some
> > international fixes, and theres the Mac release.)
> I have only so much time
> > :)
> >
> 
> Yes.  Realizing that is what has helped me to try to
> be patient.  But I think
> it's the other little Palm enhancements that get
> slipped in (such as pseudo inline-editting) that get
> to me (though obviously
> this was probably quicker to do than tags)  Like
> the desktop, it (inline-editting) was, for me, just
> a nice-to-have feature not
> a must-have so while I am sure I will love it, I
> still feel 'needy'.
> 
> >
> > > But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.
> >
> >         I'll do the best I can :)
> >
> 
> No doubt.
> 
> >         I'll see what I can do, but I'm done with
> 18 hour workdays for
> > awhile :/
> >
> >                 jeff
> 
> Yes, do slow it down.  I don't want you to burn out
> before you get to tags ;-)
> 
> Just needed reassurance that Tags are on the way.
> Thanks for listening as always,
> Frieda
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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2562

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:05pm
Subject: Re: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "M. Schneider" <meeka@y...> wrote:
> I created a list in desktop.  Synced with my palm; changed layout 
and 
> name. Synced with DT; added new items.  Removed original file with 
> old name.  Synced with Palm and got the message in the subject.
Further expansion on subject:
When I synced after rename, the original name was still in DT folder 
along with the new name for the file after the sync.
2563

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

 
Neal Cordle wrote:

> So, Frieda,
>
> I think what I hear you saying is that you'd like to
> have tags? ;-)
>

Well yeah sure if want to put it in the concise, short, sweet and
to-the-point manner.
But I like my long, whiny, bawl-baby version better ;-)

> (Just trying out some reflective listening skills) :P
>

Not bad!  Maybe I should try that short & sweet thing some time, too! (Too
late for the messages I posted earlier today).
Thanks for the smile.
2564

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Frieda King wrote:

> I thought I would try once again to appeal for line item categories.

	Its not about appealing; appealing doesn't get me more time in the
day :) I usually go by some order derived by how much work something is,
its priority to a number of people, and its tediousness. If something is
higly tedious yet very quick and desirable, I may do it. If its enjoyable
and quick and useful, it most certainly will get done sooner than tedious
and long and useless. Right now I have a *huge* amount of support (number
of downloads == amount of support, and with the expansion pack ...),
followed by a high need to fix international support in the desktop, and
then the Mac version. Thats just to get things under control.

	*Then* I can get to features. The international support and email
support are top priority right now. It has to be that way.

> changed in all the other apps that are viewing or syncing
> to the stock ToDo list including Shadow.  But when I make a change to
> the category in one app, it is changed in all the other
> apps ...except Shadow.  When the info gets to Shadow, I lose (mind you)
> one of the features of the already inadequate stock
> ToDo list, the ability to filter the list by category.  All of the other

	Technically, Shadow offers the same categorization as any other
program. Shadow also adds the abilities to have lists. You could have one
list per category, and thus have the same flexibility as any other
program. You *perceive* less, but you have more :)

	Tags will come, but they have to come in order. I cannot let down
40% of Shadow users who are overseas.

> Yes, do add your planned tags.  They will be a welcome & unique
> enhancement.  But do it in addition to (and after) adding
> ToDo synchronized line item categories, not instead of.

	I'm not sure Tags can be synced to todo categories. If you have
200 tags, how do you sync them to categories?

> Sorry for such a long post, but I had to get this out as I have wanted
> this feature from day 1 of trying Shadow 1 year ago and
> thought it was such an intuitive to include at least the minimum
> features of ToDo that I am shocked that I still even have to
> request it.

	Its a lot of work, and much less requested than most other
features. (I know once it gets implemented, people will love it. But its
also somethign peopel don't know they need. The desktop app, ofr instance,
got me 100 requests a day for months! :)

	I've not forgotten it. But its also not like I have copious
amounts of time :(

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2565

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Frieda King wrote:

> Yes.  Realizing that is what has helped me to try to be patient.  But I think
> it's the other little Palm enhancements that get
> slipped in (such as pseudo inline-editting) that get to me (though obviously

	If you go back and count the number of requests for in-line
editting, you will see it too dwarfs most other requests. Also, the mini
editor was a total of only a days work, spread out across a fe weeks. (It
got mostly built a month or two back, but not installed into the main
source tree till a few weeks ago :P)  The graphical button bar was a days
work, plus the graphical icons and such which we fiddled with for a little
while.

> this was probably quicker to do than tags)  Like the desktop, it
> (inline-editting) was, for me, just a nice-to-have feature not a
> must-have so while I am sure I will love it, I still feel 'needy'.

	It was a must-have for a lot of people.

> Just needed reassurance that Tags are on the way.
> Thanks for listening as always,

	Its definitely coming. Sooner than later these days. 

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2566

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:00pm
Subject: Re: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:

> I created a list in desktop.  Synced with my palm; changed layout and 
> name. Synced with DT; added new items.  Removed original file with 
> old name.  Synced with Palm and got the message in the subject.

	Got the lastsync.txt of the sync that potentially had problems?

	"Changed layout and name"? Howso? "Removed original file" implies
you copied the file before messing with it?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2567

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

 
On 2001-11-05 at 14:55, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   Its not about appealing; appealing doesn't get me more time in the
> day :) I usually go by some order derived by how much work something is,
> its priority to a number of people, and its tediousness. If something is
> higly tedious yet very quick and desirable, I may do it. If its enjoyable
> and quick and useful, it most certainly will get done sooner than tedious
> and long and useless. Right now I have a *huge* amount of support (number
> of downloads == amount of support, and with the expansion pack ...),
> followed by a high need to fix international support in the desktop, and
> then the Mac version. Thats just to get things under control.

Wouldn't it be rather fun (or ugly) to see all your user trying to prioritize
your todo list ... at the same time 8-)

I know which items I would try to move up 8-)

                    jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
2568

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "M. Schneider" <meeka@y...> wrote:
> > I created a list in desktop.  Synced with my palm; changed layout 
> and 
> > name. Synced with DT; added new items.  Removed original file with 
> > old name.  Synced with Palm and got the message in the subject.
> Further expansion on subject:
> When I synced after rename, the original name was still in DT folder 
> along with the new name for the file after the sync.

	If you rename on the handheld, the desktop old-name copy gets
orphaned. The desktop can't easily know about renames, so I opted to leave
the old name file behind as a backup. In a upcoming release the desktop
will move the orphaned files into the Backup directory to keep the main
directory clean of all files except current ones.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2569

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:09pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

 
All of this talk about tags and line-item categories has me wondering-- 
exactly what are they, and how much easier will they make my life & 
planning?

Jen

> > Yes, do add your planned tags.  They will be a welcome & unique
> > enhancement.  But do it in addition to (and after) adding
> > ToDo synchronized line item categories, not instead of.
 

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
2570

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 9:12pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Jan Erik [iso-8859-1] Moström wrote:

> > higly tedious yet very quick and desirable, I may do it. If its enjoyable
> > and quick and useful, it most certainly will get done sooner than tedious
> > and long and useless. Right now I have a *huge* amount of support (number
> > of downloads == amount of support, and with the expansion pack ...),
> > followed by a high need to fix international support in the desktop, and
> > then the Mac version. Thats just to get things under control.
> 
> Wouldn't it be rather fun (or ugly) to see all your user trying to prioritize
> your todo list ... at the same time 8-)

	hehe. Oooooooh, don't get me started ;) It *is* >400 items, and
much of it is in a Shadow file. I have been so tempted since day 1 to
publish the shadow file to the website as a poll, to let people vote on
priority and see what a mess it'd become :) But I dont' build purely on
requests.. I factor in time to complete, fun, etc. I have thought about
extra attributes for the shadow files, so I could indicate tediousness,
fun, etc.

	Now that the XML conduit is pretty solid, I've been working slowly
on a ftp-backend. After a sync, ftp drop off the file on my webserver, and
before sync, ftp and pick it up. Thus the XML could be on the webserver,
and a simple CIG to display it and handle updates from the web.

	Real time interactive prioritization.

	Man, that'd be such a wank, and *so useless* :)

> I know which items I would try to move up 8-)

	"[] Shadow completes Jan's work automatically"

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2571

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 9:14pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

 
On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> All of this talk about tags and line-item categories has me wondering-- 
> exactly what are they, and how much easier will they make my life & 
> planning?

	Consider each item having its own category. 

	Create a file called SomeProject in category Work. Inside that
file put item "Buy sonic screwdriver" into category "Tom's Work". 

	To find out what Tom needs to do, select to filter by category
"Tom's Work".

	Handy.

	Palm lets you only have 15 categories.

	Tags is liek categories, but I'll let you have say 100 or 200 of
them, and multiple per item. (they're like links to categories, and you
can sort by these tag links)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2572

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 9:16pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

 
Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> 
> 	hehe. Oooooooh, don't get me started ;) It *is* >400 items, and
> much of it is in a Shadow file. I have been so tempted since day 1 to
> publish the shadow file to the website as a poll, to let people vote on
> priority and see what a mess it'd become :) But I dont' build purely on
> requests.. I factor in time to complete, fun, etc. I have thought about
> extra attributes for the shadow files, so I could indicate tediousness,
> fun, etc.
> 
Gee Jeff, if you are REALLY looking for fun, you could let us vote
on how much FUN we think each item would be for you to code. Then you
could really sit back and laugh <smile>

Seriously, given how far you've come with Shadow, please don't think
of us as greedy never satisfied users (even though we are ... <g>).
You have developed a truely marvelous piece of code without which
a lot of us would be lost. Let me take a brief moment here on behalf
of all of us out here in the community to say again, Thank You!

Gary
2573

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 9:20pm
Subject: Shadow Lite?

 
I may have the need to make a "mini Shadow". Reduced price,
reduced size, limited distribution.

	Thats a toughie. If I do it, I may base it on Shadow Plan 1.5.0,
and strip out a few things to reduce size. Or Maybe base on 2.0 (pretty),
and take away a bunch of stuff.

	Any opinions on what things *need* to be present to make Shadow..
Shadow? (ie: Linking will stay. Shadow is the king of linkers and I think
it helps identify and set Shadow apart). Hmm..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2574

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 9:59pm
Subject: Re: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

 
> 	Got the lastsync.txt of the sync that potentially had 
problems? 
....As mean as they may seem ... I am including all the logs from 
today.  No problems have appeared.

HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:49:25 AM
   -- Backing up db ShadP-Weekly routines to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Weekly_routines.PDB
   -- Backing up db ShadP-Hello world to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Hello_world.PDB
   -- Backing up db ShadP-Thanksgiving-01 to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Thanksgiving-01.PDB
OK System
HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:51:11 AM

HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:45:02 AM
   -- Backing up db ShadP-Thanksgiving-01 to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Thanksgiving-01.PDB
HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:45:28 AM

HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:34:04 AM
   -- Backing up db ShadP-Thanksgiving-01 to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Thanksgiving-01.PDB
   -- Backing up db SilverDB-tric to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\SilverDB-tric.PDB
   -- The database for ShadP-thank01.PDB was deleted on the handheld. 
Moving the backup to the Archive folder.
OK System
HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:37:05 AM

HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:22:33 AM
   -- Backing up db ShadP-thank01 to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-thank01.PDB
OK System
HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:23:39 AM

HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:21:32 AM
   -- Backing up db ShadP-Daily routines to file C:\Program 
Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Daily_routines.PDB
OK System
HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:22:10 AM


> 	"Changed layout and name"? Howso? "Removed original file" 
implies
> you copied the file before messing with it?
> 
I moved some children to new parents is what I mean by 'changed 
layout'.  I renamed the file from thank01 to thanksgiving-01.

By your next reply to this message, you now understand what I meant 
by 'removed original file'.

Need more info?
2575

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 10:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

 
Look up in DesktopRefGuide the debug log, and send me the
lastsync.txt it tells you how to find. Don't send it to the mailing
list. Send it to me direct.

	So far we've had about 5 or 10 people with potential problems
which turnedout to be Windows issues or the like, so lets see if we can
fix this one up the same way :)

		jeff

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:

> 
> > 	Got the lastsync.txt of the sync that potentially had 
> problems? 
> ....As mean as they may seem ... I am including all the logs from 
> today.  No problems have appeared.
> 
> HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:49:25 AM
>    -- Backing up db ShadP-Weekly routines to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Weekly_routines.PDB
>    -- Backing up db ShadP-Hello world to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Hello_world.PDB
>    -- Backing up db ShadP-Thanksgiving-01 to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Thanksgiving-01.PDB
> OK System
> HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:51:11 AM
> 
> HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:45:02 AM
>    -- Backing up db ShadP-Thanksgiving-01 to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Thanksgiving-01.PDB
> HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:45:28 AM
> 
> HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:34:04 AM
>    -- Backing up db ShadP-Thanksgiving-01 to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Thanksgiving-01.PDB
>    -- Backing up db SilverDB-tric to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\SilverDB-tric.PDB
>    -- The database for ShadP-thank01.PDB was deleted on the handheld. 
> Moving the backup to the Archive folder.
> OK System
> HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:37:05 AM
> 
> HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:22:33 AM
>    -- Backing up db ShadP-thank01 to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-thank01.PDB
> OK System
> HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:23:39 AM
> 
> HotSync operation started 11/05/2001 11:21:32 AM
>    -- Backing up db ShadP-Daily routines to file C:\Program 
> Files\Handspring\meekap\Backup\ShadP-Daily_routines.PDB
> OK System
> HotSync operation complete 11/05/2001 11:22:10 AM
> 
> 
> > 	"Changed layout and name"? Howso? "Removed original file" 
> implies
> > you copied the file before messing with it?
> > 
> I moved some children to new parents is what I mean by 'changed 
> layout'.  I renamed the file from thank01 to thanksgiving-01.
> 
> By your next reply to this message, you now understand what I meant 
> by 'removed original file'.
> 
> Need more info?
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2576

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 2:29am
Subject: Tags.

 
We discussed this before, but my notes only go back a few dozen
pages before I give up looking ;)

	I half built tags awhile back; they're very unstable but I'll see
what I can do. (Its one of my favourite features, but so much work :/).

	Current basis makes a few assumptions.

	Original intent was to make categories list-specific, so that
beaming or copying a list would carry tag definitions with it, and to keep
them localized. This requires lots of modification to the engine and
conduit and desktop application.

	The tag base I started awhile ago makes tags *global*, which is to
say you have 100 tags you can define on for your Shadow Plan, and all
lists can dip into it for their tag definitions. Implication is that you
could define a bunch of tags, assign them in various lists, and have con
sistant tags acorss lists. However renaming a tag would show in all lists,
and deleting a tag would remove it in all lists.

	Global tags, being stored in their own file, are easily
categorized. So you could have 100 tags, spread across 15
categories. Applying tags would be picking the tag button, picking a
category, and picking a tag from a poplist of tags in that category (which
could be all).

	Current base wants to allow only one tag per item. Its possible I
could support more than one if we assign them through the linking
interface. (ie: Link Manager, Add, and instead of Address or Memo you pick
a new option, "Resource" or "Tag", and link to it).

	Current base plan would support sort on tag. Filter would be
future.

	I need to know what people think of these comments ASAP if I'm
going to consider them in the next couple weeks/months.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2577

From: keho@c...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 3:30am
Subject: Re: International characters Fix

 
>I get an error message about International Characters....
>(Maybe not well formed at line ##) 

I get this error with a number of my Shadow files as well.  I tracked 
it down in the XML and it appears to have trouble when it encounters 
the bullet character.  I often use bullet characters to list a number 
of points within a note attached to a task.  When I remove the 
bullets, re-save the XML, then reload it in the Shadow Desktop it 
seems to work fine.  I would like to be able to keep using the 
bullets in my text, though.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 alwaysenuf@y... wrote:
> 
> > I got the reg code and now i have a file or two on the desktop 
and a 
> > backup folder that appears to be empty, but... the shadow files 
won't 
> > open.  I get an error message about International Characters.... 
> > (Maybe not well formed at line ##) I didn't even know I 
had 'em. ;) 
> > Consequently I still can't use the desktop... Any idea when the 
> > International Characters problem will be addressed?
> 
> 	There will be an international friendly version hopefully in 
2-3
> weeks. IF you want to help out, send me the XML file that has the 
load
> problem, and the corresponding PDB backup. It'll help me track down 
the
> unsupported character.
> 
> > Thanks for your attentions- and for putting together what I'm 
sure is 
> > a Fantastic product(... whenever i get to use it...{{SMILE}}) In 
the 
> > meantime, I'll be...
> 
> 	You can check that line number in the XML file, if you're
> adventurous, and then from the text you can find the corresponding 
item in
> your handheld, and see whats causing the problem, and then remove 
the
> character and the XML file. Then sync and you're all set.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2578

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:12am
Subject: Re: Re: International characters Fix

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> I get this error with a number of my Shadow files as well.  I tracked 
> it down in the XML and it appears to have trouble when it encounters 
> the bullet character.  I often use bullet characters to list a number 

	Bullet should be okay; it is special handled. Unless you use a
different bullet then the down-right-swipe-dot kind.

> of points within a note attached to a task.  When I remove the 
> bullets, re-save the XML, then reload it in the Shadow Desktop it 
> seems to work fine.  I would like to be able to keep using the 
> bullets in my text, though.

	Make up a one-liner Shadow file and sync it; send me the XML and
pdb, and I'll add it to the supported list for next release.

		jeff

> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 alwaysenuf@y... wrote:
> > 
> > > I got the reg code and now i have a file or two on the desktop 
> and a 
> > > backup folder that appears to be empty, but... the shadow files 
> won't 
> > > open.  I get an error message about International Characters.... 
> > > (Maybe not well formed at line ##) I didn't even know I 
> had 'em. ;) 
> > > Consequently I still can't use the desktop... Any idea when the 
> > > International Characters problem will be addressed?
> > 
> > 	There will be an international friendly version hopefully in 
> 2-3
> > weeks. IF you want to help out, send me the XML file that has the 
> load
> > problem, and the corresponding PDB backup. It'll help me track down 
> the
> > unsupported character.
> > 
> > > Thanks for your attentions- and for putting together what I'm 
> sure is 
> > > a Fantastic product(... whenever i get to use it...{{SMILE}}) In 
> the 
> > > meantime, I'll be...
> > 
> > 	You can check that line number in the XML file, if you're
> > adventurous, and then from the text you can find the corresponding 
> item in
> > your handheld, and see whats causing the problem, and then remove 
> the
> > character and the XML file. Then sync and you're all set.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2579

From: jacques@t...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 7:12am
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
Hello,

Le 5 Nov 2001, ā 21:29, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> I need to know what people think of these comments ASAP if I'm
> going to consider them in the next couple weeks/months.

I won't go in the kitchen.
I'll just give two examples of what I would like to do if conditional exps 
(with other tags and one of the three item dates)  were available. I 
understand tags in conditional exps would display all items "true", 
whatever list they come from.

1.
One thing, I'd like one day, to "automate" would be to extract from all 
"active lists" subtrees worth considering this week, merge them them in a 
single "work-now" outline from which during the week I would at will 
choose and follow may "todo-next". End of day or end of week, I would 
update "source projects" from what has been done/modified in the "work-
now". Tags and conditional exps would be needed.

2.
An other thing I'd apreciate, would be to do some "bulk" process over 
tagged items (here again a conditional exp filtering): postpone a target 
date by one week (or a new date), have bold green title for all these, ....


PS for Frieda - I too put tags in high priority: "Tag! Tag! Tag!" But I'm very 
unhappy not being able to use desktop because of a lack of international 
characters support. So I thank Jeff to keep for a while DT in his topmost 
priority ;-)

Cheers,



Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr
2580

From: Nick Rich  <nick.rich@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 10:46am
Subject: RE: Tags.

 
Jeff,

It is still a wonder to me that you monitor these groups so closely!

What I want is the "tag" feature by placing a tag on an item (multiple
tags even better) in a list. Filtering in the list would then be good.
However what I want, what I really really want is to then be able to see
all the [same] tagged items from all lists in a separate view or even in
another list i.e. one item in a list may relate to lots of categories,
lists and tags and I want to be able to get to that item a number of
ways through categories, lists and tags. Not work much then.

Couple of weeks you say, I'll pay another $10....

Nick Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: 06 November 2001 02:29
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: freking@p...
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Tags.
> 
> 
> 	We discussed this before, but my notes only go back a few dozen
> pages before I give up looking ;)
> 
> 	I half built tags awhile back; they're very unstable but I'll
see
> what I can do. (Its one of my favourite features, but so much work
:/).
> 
> 	Current basis makes a few assumptions.
> 
> 	Original intent was to make categories list-specific, so that
> beaming or copying a list would carry tag definitions with it, and to
keep
> them localized. This requires lots of modification to the engine and
> conduit and desktop application.
> 
> 	The tag base I started awhile ago makes tags *global*, which is
to
> say you have 100 tags you can define on for your Shadow Plan, and all
> lists can dip into it for their tag definitions. Implication is that
you
> could define a bunch of tags, assign them in various lists, and have
con
> sistant tags acorss lists. However renaming a tag would show in all
lists,
> and deleting a tag would remove it in all lists.
> 
> 	Global tags, being stored in their own file, are easily
> categorized. So you could have 100 tags, spread across 15
> categories. Applying tags would be picking the tag button, picking a
> category, and picking a tag from a poplist of tags in that category
(which
> could be all).
> 
> 	Current base wants to allow only one tag per item. Its possible
I
> could support more than one if we assign them through the linking
> interface. (ie: Link Manager, Add, and instead of Address or Memo you
pick
> a new option, "Resource" or "Tag", and link to it).
> 
> 	Current base plan would support sort on tag. Filter would be
> future.
> 
> 	I need to know what people think of these comments ASAP if I'm
> going to consider them in the next couple weeks/months.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 



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2581

From: The McGuire Family  <mcguirej@a...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 11:03am
Subject: Tags, and More Tags

 
Hi Jeff and all other shadow-folk,


>	Global tags, being stored in their own file, are easily
>categorized. So you could have 100 tags, spread across 15
>categories. Applying tags would be picking the tag button, picking a
>category, and picking a tag from a poplist of tags in that category (which
>could be all).

Global tags sound great.

Why do categories enter into this so directly, Jeff?  I was hoping/thinking
that you could establish tags, and use them in addition to categories.  Very much like
in DateBk4, in which you can assign an icon to an event, and then set up different
views showing:

view 1: events in category "Kids"
view 2: events with icon (or for Shadow, "Tag") Skating
view 3: just events in both category Kids and with icon Skating.

Why would Skating have to be associated with the category Kids?

>	Current base wants to allow only one tag per item. Its possible I
>could support more than one if we assign them through the linking
>interface. (ie: Link Manager, Add, and instead of Address or Memo you pick
>a new option, "Resource" or "Tag", and link to it).

YES.  Please allow multi-tagging.  Then I can think that creating new sub-lists from
large master list would be so very easy.  Just display all items in a list tagged with 
the "Maintenance" and the "Minivan" tag.

Of course, the possibility to scan multiple lists, and create a new list from all items
with a particular tag or tags would be just incredibly helpful.  I know that if people 
are interested in using the Getting Things Done methodology, such an ability 
would be very handy...

>	Current base plan would support sort on tag. Filter would be
>future.

An excellent start.  As usual.  Thanks for the great work, Jeff. 

Best regards,

Jim McGuire
2582

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 0:54pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> I won't go in the kitchen.
> I'll just give two examples of what I would like to do if conditional exps 
> (with other tags and one of the three item dates)  were available. I 
> understand tags in conditional exps would display all items "true", 
> whatever list they come from.

	But I need commentary. One tag is good enough, or is multiple
tagging required? Are global tags good or do we need list specific tags?

	They almost need to be global so that copy/paste from list to list
will maintain the associated tags.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2583

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: RE: Tags.

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Nick Rich wrote:

> It is still a wonder to me that you monitor these groups so closely!

	I'm silly that way :P

> What I want is the "tag" feature by placing a tag on an item (multiple
> tags even better) in a list. Filtering in the list would then be good.
> However what I want, what I really really want is to then be able to
> see all the [same] tagged items from all lists in a separate view or
> even in another list i.e. one item in a list may relate to lots of
> categories, lists and tags and I want to be able to get to that item a
> number of ways through categories, lists and tags. Not work much then.

	"multi-list" ops arent' high on my priority list as I don't get
many requests for them, and they're "hard" in the sense where its not too
easily done with the way Shadow works and the amount of ram you get in
Palms and such. I could make a multi-list scanner that reads through all
your lists and generates a *new* list with data summaries, and maybe lets
you jump bhack to the originals, but thats sort of nasty :P

	I may someday add a limited split-screen view to let you open two
files at once.. but opening 200 files is rough ;) (ie: I have 100 lists,
and I know people with many hundreds of lists. That complicates things
immensely :P)

		jeff

> 
> Couple of weeks you say, I'll pay another $10....
> 
> Nick Rich
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> > Sent: 06 November 2001 02:29
> > To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: freking@p...
> > Subject: [shadow-discuss] Tags.
> > 
> > 
> > 	We discussed this before, but my notes only go back a few dozen
> > pages before I give up looking ;)
> > 
> > 	I half built tags awhile back; they're very unstable but I'll
> see
> > what I can do. (Its one of my favourite features, but so much work
> :/).
> > 
> > 	Current basis makes a few assumptions.
> > 
> > 	Original intent was to make categories list-specific, so that
> > beaming or copying a list would carry tag definitions with it, and to
> keep
> > them localized. This requires lots of modification to the engine and
> > conduit and desktop application.
> > 
> > 	The tag base I started awhile ago makes tags *global*, which is
> to
> > say you have 100 tags you can define on for your Shadow Plan, and all
> > lists can dip into it for their tag definitions. Implication is that
> you
> > could define a bunch of tags, assign them in various lists, and have
> con
> > sistant tags acorss lists. However renaming a tag would show in all
> lists,
> > and deleting a tag would remove it in all lists.
> > 
> > 	Global tags, being stored in their own file, are easily
> > categorized. So you could have 100 tags, spread across 15
> > categories. Applying tags would be picking the tag button, picking a
> > category, and picking a tag from a poplist of tags in that category
> (which
> > could be all).
> > 
> > 	Current base wants to allow only one tag per item. Its possible
> I
> > could support more than one if we assign them through the linking
> > interface. (ie: Link Manager, Add, and instead of Address or Memo you
> pick
> > a new option, "Resource" or "Tag", and link to it).
> > 
> > 	Current base plan would support sort on tag. Filter would be
> > future.
> > 
> > 	I need to know what people think of these comments ASAP if I'm
> > going to consider them in the next couple weeks/months.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2584

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 1:05pm
Subject: Re: Tags, and More Tags

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, The McGuire Family wrote:

> Why do categories enter into this so directly, Jeff?  I was
> hoping/thinking that you could establish tags, and use them in
> addition to categories.  Very much like in DateBk4, in which you can
> assign an icon to an event, and then set up different views showing:

	Categories only enter into it because of "why not" factor. ie:
Tags (or Resources, I've not decided what to name them) replace the need
for categories by giving you 100 of them instead of 15. But because 100
tags is a lot, I thought about categorizing *them*, since the palm built
in category system isn't bad, just limiting. So limit yourself to 15
categories of tags, but a total of up to 100 tags. *shrug*. First cut
would not have tag-categories.

> view 1: events in category "Kids"
> view 2: events with icon (or for Shadow, "Tag") Skating

	There will not be categories *and* tags. I already have enough
confused people without giving them two very similar options that have the
same use. (Though tags are more powerful than categories)

> view 3: just events in both category Kids and with icon Skating.

	Instead, I either support multiple tags and/or lots of tags. If
multiple tags, you just define "Kids" and "Activity, Skating" say, and
then tag both of those to some items. Or if we don't allow multiple tags,
you just assign "Kids - Skating" to the item. *shrug*

> Why would Skating have to be associated with the category Kids?

	There won't be categories :) Thats why I don't call my replacement
system "Category" -- a category sounds like a limited thing, plus you get
only 15. If I call it Tags, your mind dont' associate it with partitions
between things. You could use it for anything.

> YES.  Please allow multi-tagging.  Then I can think that creating new
> sub-lists from large master list would be so very easy.  Just display
> all items in a list tagged with the "Maintenance" and the "Minivan"
> tag.

	yeah; I think multiple tags is maybe essential, though making a
filter system for them will be rough :P

> Of course, the possibility to scan multiple lists, and create a new
> list from all items with a particular tag or tags would be just
> incredibly helpful.  I know that if people are interested in using the
> Getting Things Done methodology, such an ability would be very
> handy...

	What if it runs slowly to do so? For Shadow to scan 100 lists,
each with 100 items, would take awhile :P (ie: I know peopel with 4MB
lists)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2585

From: MGoehmann@t...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 1:13pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
> 
> 	Current base plan would support sort on tag. Filter would be
> future.


Filter is most important for me. I want to use tags as "category per item" and this makes sense only if you can filter by category/tag IMHO.

Monika
2586

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 1:28pm
Subject: RE: Tags, and More Tags

 
Could you pick which lists to scan??  For example, I have lists in two
categories, Unfiled, and GTD (for Getting Things Done). Maybe you could let
someone pick which lists are included, or just scan by category.  I would
only ever use this feature for my GTD lists, and stuff like packing, my
movie lists, etc. just don't need to be included in that at all.  That would
be WONDERFUL-- automatic generation of a Next Actions list instead of having
to go through my huge Projects list-- just those things with certain tags,
or perhaps certain target dates could be pulled out to a new list each day.

Of course that brings up another question-- would the things on that new
list be plain copies, or would they have pointers or automatic links back to
the Projects lists, so when I mark them off in one place they would be done
on the other?


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 7:05 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Tags, and More Tags


On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, The McGuire Family wrote:

> Why do categories enter into this so directly, Jeff?  I was
> hoping/thinking that you could establish tags, and use them in
> addition to categories.  Very much like in DateBk4, in which you can
> assign an icon to an event, and then set up different views showing:

	Categories only enter into it because of "why not" factor. ie:
Tags (or Resources, I've not decided what to name them) replace the need
for categories by giving you 100 of them instead of 15. But because 100
tags is a lot, I thought about categorizing *them*, since the palm built
in category system isn't bad, just limiting. So limit yourself to 15
categories of tags, but a total of up to 100 tags. *shrug*. First cut
would not have tag-categories.

> view 1: events in category "Kids"
> view 2: events with icon (or for Shadow, "Tag") Skating

	There will not be categories *and* tags. I already have enough
confused people without giving them two very similar options that have the
same use. (Though tags are more powerful than categories)

> view 3: just events in both category Kids and with icon Skating.

	Instead, I either support multiple tags and/or lots of tags. If
multiple tags, you just define "Kids" and "Activity, Skating" say, and
then tag both of those to some items. Or if we don't allow multiple tags,
you just assign "Kids - Skating" to the item. *shrug*

> Why would Skating have to be associated with the category Kids?

	There won't be categories :) Thats why I don't call my replacement
system "Category" -- a category sounds like a limited thing, plus you get
only 15. If I call it Tags, your mind dont' associate it with partitions
between things. You could use it for anything.

> YES.  Please allow multi-tagging.  Then I can think that creating new
> sub-lists from large master list would be so very easy.  Just display
> all items in a list tagged with the "Maintenance" and the "Minivan"
> tag.

	yeah; I think multiple tags is maybe essential, though making a
filter system for them will be rough :P

> Of course, the possibility to scan multiple lists, and create a new
> list from all items with a particular tag or tags would be just
> incredibly helpful.  I know that if people are interested in using the
> Getting Things Done methodology, such an ability would be very
> handy...

	What if it runs slowly to do so? For Shadow to scan 100 lists,
each with 100 items, would take awhile :P (ie: I know peopel with 4MB
lists)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2587

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 1:47pm
Subject: RE: Tags, and More Tags

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Could you pick which lists to scan??  For example, I have lists in two
> categories, Unfiled, and GTD (for Getting Things Done). Maybe you could let
> someone pick which lists are included, or just scan by category.  I would
> only ever use this feature for my GTD lists, and stuff like packing, my
> movie lists, etc. just don't need to be included in that at all.  That would
> be WONDERFUL-- automatic generation of a Next Actions list instead of having
> to go through my huge Projects list-- just those things with certain tags,
> or perhaps certain target dates could be pulled out to a new list each day.

	I gotta keep my big mouth shut :P

	When doing a scan, I'd probably make the generated list flat,
since how would it know how to maintain hierarchy when sucking items out
from any level?

	So it wouldn't be too tough to build such a function, given those
limitations.

> Of course that brings up another question-- would the things on that new
> list be plain copies, or would they have pointers or automatic links back to
> the Projects lists, so when I mark them off in one place they would be done
> on the other?

	To keep it simple, they would be copies with file links back (to
use existing functionality), or would be a find-window that you could tap
on an item to jump to it. To be really useful I'd have to build
item-to-item links, which would be rough but it also high up my list since
it'd be neat.

		jeff

> 
> 
> Jen
> 
> ---------------
> PocketGoddess
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 7:05 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Tags, and More Tags
> 
> 
> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, The McGuire Family wrote:
> 
> > Why do categories enter into this so directly, Jeff?  I was
> > hoping/thinking that you could establish tags, and use them in
> > addition to categories.  Very much like in DateBk4, in which you can
> > assign an icon to an event, and then set up different views showing:
> 
> 	Categories only enter into it because of "why not" factor. ie:
> Tags (or Resources, I've not decided what to name them) replace the need
> for categories by giving you 100 of them instead of 15. But because 100
> tags is a lot, I thought about categorizing *them*, since the palm built
> in category system isn't bad, just limiting. So limit yourself to 15
> categories of tags, but a total of up to 100 tags. *shrug*. First cut
> would not have tag-categories.
> 
> > view 1: events in category "Kids"
> > view 2: events with icon (or for Shadow, "Tag") Skating
> 
> 	There will not be categories *and* tags. I already have enough
> confused people without giving them two very similar options that have the
> same use. (Though tags are more powerful than categories)
> 
> > view 3: just events in both category Kids and with icon Skating.
> 
> 	Instead, I either support multiple tags and/or lots of tags. If
> multiple tags, you just define "Kids" and "Activity, Skating" say, and
> then tag both of those to some items. Or if we don't allow multiple tags,
> you just assign "Kids - Skating" to the item. *shrug*
> 
> > Why would Skating have to be associated with the category Kids?
> 
> 	There won't be categories :) Thats why I don't call my replacement
> system "Category" -- a category sounds like a limited thing, plus you get
> only 15. If I call it Tags, your mind dont' associate it with partitions
> between things. You could use it for anything.
> 
> > YES.  Please allow multi-tagging.  Then I can think that creating new
> > sub-lists from large master list would be so very easy.  Just display
> > all items in a list tagged with the "Maintenance" and the "Minivan"
> > tag.
> 
> 	yeah; I think multiple tags is maybe essential, though making a
> filter system for them will be rough :P
> 
> > Of course, the possibility to scan multiple lists, and create a new
> > list from all items with a particular tag or tags would be just
> > incredibly helpful.  I know that if people are interested in using the
> > Getting Things Done methodology, such an ability would be very
> > handy...
> 
> 	What if it runs slowly to do so? For Shadow to scan 100 lists,
> each with 100 items, would take awhile :P (ie: I know peopel with 4MB
> lists)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2588

From: jacques@t...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 2:09pm
Subject: Re: Tags : do we need them ?

 
Le 6 Nov 2001, ā 7:54, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> But I need commentary. One tag is good enough, or is multiple
> tagging required? Are global tags good or do we need list specific tags?


Global, of course if we want to work on selected items from any list.

Multiple I should say, so we can elaborate custom filters, with some 
Sahdow variables (Target date,..priority..., category,  and (why not ?) color 
.. )

Conditional exps could be worked something alike ThinkDb2




But do we need a list of tags ?

Since PalmWiki, I've almost dropped link usage in DateBk4
(if you've not tested it, PalmWiki is a freeware hack : if you tap, say,  on 
the string "[MyTitle]" in any edit field of any app, it opens (or create) the 
memo "My Title". If you tap, say,  on the string "11/23/01" in any edit field 
of any app, it opens your prefered datebook on Friday 11/23/01)


Why not have one day an ā la PalmWiki system for Shadow (a 
ShadowHackWatcher) ?

If you tap anywhere a word (maybe prefixed with a Shadow Token), this 
would launch Shadow and make it display the list zoomed on the item 
with that tokened-word (or a list of the items having that word).

The words could be any word in item title (or keywords with the token 
prefix). You could use them in conditional filters to build transient lists to 
work with.

For the user, it would be no pain (if not for you...) !


Just to say I have no need for predefined Tag-slots, or categorized tags.


Just coming thoughts, :-)



Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr
2589

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 2:09pm
Subject: RE: Tags.

 
1.  Global lists would suit me best.  Based on my experience with a program called ECCO, (may it rest in peace - it was more
than slightly ahead of it's time) Global labels accessible across lists would be most helpful.  (any Ecco refugees around?)

2.  I like the idea of associating multiple tags to an item, however, I'd say that if I had more than 3 to 5, I'd spend more
time tagging than doing!

3.  Sort works for me, with the promise of filtering in the future!

I'm making a job change at the end of the year and was working on a new master list over the weekend.  If we're going to get
tags for Christmas, I'm gonna go back and redesign that list!

Neal



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:29 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Cc: freking@p...
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Tags.



	We discussed this before, but my notes only go back a few dozen
pages before I give up looking ;)

	I half built tags awhile back; they're very unstable but I'll see
what I can do. (Its one of my favourite features, but so much work :/).

	Current basis makes a few assumptions.

	Original intent was to make categories list-specific, so that
beaming or copying a list would carry tag definitions with it, and to keep
them localized. This requires lots of modification to the engine and
conduit and desktop application.

	The tag base I started awhile ago makes tags *global*, which is to
say you have 100 tags you can define on for your Shadow Plan, and all
lists can dip into it for their tag definitions. Implication is that you
could define a bunch of tags, assign them in various lists, and have con
sistant tags acorss lists. However renaming a tag would show in all lists,
and deleting a tag would remove it in all lists.

	Global tags, being stored in their own file, are easily
categorized. So you could have 100 tags, spread across 15
categories. Applying tags would be picking the tag button, picking a
category, and picking a tag from a poplist of tags in that category (which
could be all).

	Current base wants to allow only one tag per item. Its possible I
could support more than one if we assign them through the linking
interface. (ie: Link Manager, Add, and instead of Address or Memo you pick
a new option, "Resource" or "Tag", and link to it).

	Current base plan would support sort on tag. Filter would be
future.

	I need to know what people think of these comments ASAP if I'm
going to consider them in the next couple weeks/months.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2590

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 2:34pm
Subject: RE: Tags.

 
If you keep bugging me, tags could happen in the next couple of
months. They're high on my list, but they're painfull. DT international
has priority, though.

		jeff

On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Neal Cordle wrote:

> 1.  Global lists would suit me best.  Based on my experience with a program called ECCO, (may it rest in peace - it was more
> than slightly ahead of it's time) Global labels accessible across lists would be most helpful.  (any Ecco refugees around?)
> 
> 2.  I like the idea of associating multiple tags to an item, however, I'd say that if I had more than 3 to 5, I'd spend more
> time tagging than doing!
> 
> 3.  Sort works for me, with the promise of filtering in the future!
> 
> I'm making a job change at the end of the year and was working on a new master list over the weekend.  If we're going to get
> tags for Christmas, I'm gonna go back and redesign that list!
> 
> Neal
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:29 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: freking@p...
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Tags.
> 
> 
> 
> 	We discussed this before, but my notes only go back a few dozen
> pages before I give up looking ;)
> 
> 	I half built tags awhile back; they're very unstable but I'll see
> what I can do. (Its one of my favourite features, but so much work :/).
> 
> 	Current basis makes a few assumptions.
> 
> 	Original intent was to make categories list-specific, so that
> beaming or copying a list would carry tag definitions with it, and to keep
> them localized. This requires lots of modification to the engine and
> conduit and desktop application.
> 
> 	The tag base I started awhile ago makes tags *global*, which is to
> say you have 100 tags you can define on for your Shadow Plan, and all
> lists can dip into it for their tag definitions. Implication is that you
> could define a bunch of tags, assign them in various lists, and have con
> sistant tags acorss lists. However renaming a tag would show in all lists,
> and deleting a tag would remove it in all lists.
> 
> 	Global tags, being stored in their own file, are easily
> categorized. So you could have 100 tags, spread across 15
> categories. Applying tags would be picking the tag button, picking a
> category, and picking a tag from a poplist of tags in that category (which
> could be all).
> 
> 	Current base wants to allow only one tag per item. Its possible I
> could support more than one if we assign them through the linking
> interface. (ie: Link Manager, Add, and instead of Address or Memo you pick
> a new option, "Resource" or "Tag", and link to it).
> 
> 	Current base plan would support sort on tag. Filter would be
> future.
> 
> 	I need to know what people think of these comments ASAP if I'm
> going to consider them in the next couple weeks/months.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2591

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 2:43pm
Subject: RE: Tags.

 
Hey Jeff:

That which does not kill me only makes me stronger!!

No pain, no gain!!

Now that I know what tags might be able to do for me, I want them too!


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 8:35 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Tags.



	If you keep bugging me, tags could happen in the next couple of
months. They're high on my list, but they're painfull. DT international
has priority, though.

		jeff
2592

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 2:44pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
Jeff,

In calling "Tags" "Resources" are you leading this toward other desktop
project management software, maybe MS Project? Global tags with multiple
tags per item seem to make the most sense to me. Then a flat list of all
items per tag would be great.

Great job on the desktop, I use it a lot more than I thought I would. Just
remember to take time for yourself. We're a greedy bunch, and no matter
what you give us, I think we'll always ask for more. Thanks again.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:     freking@p...                                           
                                         Subject:     [shadow-discuss] Tags.                                       
                    11/05/2001                                                                                     
                    08:29 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   







           I need to know what people think of these comments ASAP if I'm
going to consider them in the next couple weeks/months.

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2593

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> In calling "Tags" "Resources" are you leading this toward other desktop
> project management software, maybe MS Project? Global tags with multiple
> tags per item seem to make the most sense to me. Then a flat list of all
> items per tag would be great.

	"Resources" is just how I think, and I know it would be
immediately recognizable to others. However, I'm trying to stick to "Tags"
since it sort of frees the user to conceptually do what they like with
them, though it might confuse people at first. I know in the documentation
I would have to say "Tags and Resources" or something :P

> Great job on the desktop, I use it a lot more than I thought I would. Just
> remember to take time for yourself. We're a greedy bunch, and no matter
> what you give us, I think we'll always ask for more. Thanks again.

	hehe :) Thats true. Greed is a muscle.. just flex it and watch it
grow :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2594

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 3:14pm
Subject: Re: Tags, and More Tags

 
I don't understand your comment on tags being useful for GTD. What 
exactly would be in the new list? I am thinking perhaps you are 
suggesting one could scan all lists for a tag @Phone, and then create 
an @Phone list, but could be wrong.

I am curious about this as in my current methodology I wouldn't use 
tags in the least. I see many people pro-tag, and I just don't 
understand why.

My methodolgy in a nutshell is that as an action item pops up I link 
it to the todo database in the appropriate "@" category. I then use 
DB4 to display different todo categories based on context (where I 
am). So for me tags wouldn't help...but maybe I am missing 
something...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., The McGuire Family <mcguirej@a...> wrote:
> 
> YES.  Please allow multi-tagging.  Then I can think that creating 
new sub-lists from
> large master list would be so very easy.  Just display all items in 
a list tagged with 
> the "Maintenance" and the "Minivan" tag.
> 
> Of course, the possibility to scan multiple lists, and create a new 
list from all items
> with a particular tag or tags would be just incredibly helpful.  I 
know that if people 
> are interested in using the Getting Things Done methodology, such 
an ability 
> would be very handy...
2595

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 3:26pm
Subject: OT: Tags, and More Tags

 
Doesn't this really go against the GTD ideas? The way I understand it 
is that the next actions are to be thought about. That once you 
complete one action, you think about what the next one is and jot it 
down, or maybe bring it to the front if it is a next step in a 
project plan.

Obviously we all organize differently...it just seems to me that this 
sort of automation goes away from the core GTD ideas. Another concern 
I have is with target dates....I very rarely use any target dates as 
those are reserved for items in the "hard landscape". Things that 
must be done on a certain date.

Just my ramblings...hope you don't mind...I'm always interested in 
knowing how others have implemented GTD.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
I would
> only ever use this feature for my GTD lists, and stuff like 
packing, my
> movie lists, etc. just don't need to be included in that at all.  
That would
> be WONDERFUL-- automatic generation of a Next Actions list instead 
of having
> to go through my huge Projects list-- just those things with 
certain tags,
> or perhaps certain target dates could be pulled out to a new list 
each day.
>
2596

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 3:30pm
Subject: ToDo Linking Request

 
I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned in 
the past is a dangerous thing.

I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever the 
todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.

My idea would be that if someone has the box displayed in a list, 
when they checked it, a list of valid todo categories would pop up so 
the user may choose where to file the resulting todo. 

In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who knows.

This would really help me by eliminating taps when assigning my next 
actions for GTD...

So what do the rest of the list members think about this enhancement? 
Would this be useful. Jeff, would this be pretty simple to implement?
2597

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 3:45pm
Subject: Re: Tags.

 
Neal & Jeff,

Neal -- I am definitely an Ecco refugee -- The combinaton of Datebk4 
and Shadow w/tags is my dream of replacing the finest PIM ever with 
something that sorta works that good on handheld.

Jeff -- I would like multiple tagging (if they replace category, it 
HAS to be multiple, or nothing is gained) and global is fine. 
However, my biggie is that the tags go with the links. I want to 
know where the todo or appt came from without the hassle of the 
ineffective back link functions available now. Nothing works "well" 
right now.

Others have talked about "collecting" next action items (I'm also 
using GThD) but, for me, linking to DateBk already gives me that. 
But I need to know what (project, list, category, pick one) the item 
comes from. (Neal - TLI problem). 

Icons, of course, could work, but the problems of programming such 
on a cross application basis are clear. I would want to be able to 
see the tags in the "other" app after a linked item was set up.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Neal Cordle" <ncordle@y...> wrote:
> 1.  Global lists would suit me best.  Based on my experience with 
a program called ECCO, (may it rest in peace - it was more
> than slightly ahead of it's time) Global labels accessible across 
lists would be most helpful.  (any Ecco refugees around?)
> 
> 2.  I like the idea of associating multiple tags to an item, 
however, I'd say that if I had more than 3 to 5, I'd spend more
> time tagging than doing!
> 
> 3.  Sort works for me, with the promise of filtering in the future!
> 
> I'm making a job change at the end of the year and was working on 
a new master list over the weekend.  If we're going to get
> tags for Christmas, I'm gonna go back and redesign that list!
> 
> Neal
2598

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 3:46pm
Subject: RE: OT: Tags, and More Tags

 
I don't have a pure implementation of GTD-- I use categories such as Class,
Work, Money, etc. instead of defining locations.

As far as next actions are concerned, once they are decided upon, do you
have to think about them again? If I could define the action steps for each
project and set target dates, then have them automatically come out to a
"Today" list using the methods we've been throwing around on the list, I
could see instantly what's important for today, what's coming up, etc. and
then assign/link things to to do and my calendar without having to wade
through a list of hundreds of projects each time.

If you want to talk further, email me off list-- I'd love to hear more.  Are
you on the GTD_palm list?


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!



-----Original Message-----
From: Griff [mailto:keith@t...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:27 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] OT: Tags, and More Tags


Doesn't this really go against the GTD ideas? The way I understand it
is that the next actions are to be thought about. That once you
complete one action, you think about what the next one is and jot it
down, or maybe bring it to the front if it is a next step in a
project plan.

Obviously we all organize differently...it just seems to me that this
sort of automation goes away from the core GTD ideas. Another concern
I have is with target dates....I very rarely use any target dates as
those are reserved for items in the "hard landscape". Things that
must be done on a certain date.

Just my ramblings...hope you don't mind...I'm always interested in
knowing how others have implemented GTD.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
I would
> only ever use this feature for my GTD lists, and stuff like
packing, my
> movie lists, etc. just don't need to be included in that at all.
That would
> be WONDERFUL-- automatic generation of a Next Actions list instead
of having
> to go through my huge Projects list-- just those things with
certain tags,
> or perhaps certain target dates could be pulled out to a new list
each day.
>



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2599

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 3:58pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Linking Request

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Griff wrote:

> I was sitting at my desk thinking again...which as I've mentioned in 
> the past is a dangerous thing.
> 
> I came up with the idea of having a popup category list whenever the 
> todo-link box is checked within a Shadow list.

	This has come up before :) ie: When setting a todo link in Link
Manager, you can specify the category. But when using [T] to add a link
(or remove/replace one), you dont' get the option.. it goes to the list
default setting of todo. The reasoning was that if you're using [T] its
because you wan tto quickly go bang bang bang down the list and managage
todos. Bein ginterupted with popmenus would be annoying.

	However, everyones milage may vary ;) I figured most people would
get by with the default list one, but for GtD you likely want specific
category management so have to use link manager to control category, or
have me add something. (ie: /O to bring up the link manager while item
sleected). I have considered making a "ToDo Category" option in the
link-arrow, so that you could tap on the [T] to make a link if you wanted,
and then tap on link-arrow then "Todo category" to change its
category. Thus it would be available for those who want it.

> In my world it would seem simple enough to implement...but who knows.

	Not too hard. Disruptive to many, though.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
2600

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Nov 6, 2001 4:04pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tags.

 
On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> Jeff -- I would like multiple tagging (if they replace category, it 
> HAS to be multiple, or nothing is gained) and global is fine. 

	Nothing is gained? 100 tags is way better than 15 categories ;)

> However, my biggie is that the tags go with the links. I want to 
> know where the todo or appt came from without the hassle of the 
> ineffective back link functions available now. Nothing works "well" 
> right now.

	The problem with links is that having 100 tags and only 15 todo
categories.. how do you map the tags to todo categories? Do I need to the
tag editor to allow you to set todo categories? Thats a pain in the butt
;)

> Others have talked about "collecting" next action items (I'm also 
> using GThD) but, for me, linking to DateBk already gives me that. 
> But I need to know what (project, list, category, pick one) the item 
> comes from. (Neal - TLI problem). 

	Attaching info to todo and datebook items is hard (because of
those programs, not because of Shadow). I can stick info into the notes
part of those objects, but I really dislike poluting another apps space
like that. I find it very annoying to have notes in every other datebook
item, by Action Names or DB4, and having those krufty notes show up in
Shadow due to links :/

> on a cross application basis are clear. I would want to be able to 
> see the tags in the "other" app after a linked item was set up.

	Setting tags outside of Shadow would be very difficult because
those apps don't know about anymore more than basic things. ie: Those apps
are the limiting factor :P (ie: I have to support *datebook*, since 90% of
people use it and not AN or DB4. And supporting DB4 icons makes means I
also have to support AN icons, and then every other datebook manager :P)

	I could have a search and rwplace thing so that if you put
@(sometext)@ into a title, it would be removed by Shadow during link
comparison, and the sometext searched for as a tag and assigned. But that
sounds painfull :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
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