From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 6:04pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

Because it's just so much easier to follow a thread in a standard 
usenet-type format using a client designed for that.  If Google picks 
up the group, it can also become part of their massive archive, which 
is great when you are seeking answers that may have already been 
provided by others.

I find that trying to follow threads here is a bit of a task 
sometimes.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 
> 	Out of curiousity.. why?
> 
> 	Outlook Express can do email, too ;)
> 
> 	I guess it keeps the content off your box, though. If I can 
find
> an easy nntp server, I may do it then. I got sick of toying with 
INN to
> get it working right ;)

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 6:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

Yahoo Groups has a lot to recommend it-- specifically very easy web 
setup options-- there are quite a few people who just don't handle 
sending arcane commands to mailing list servers.  With Yahoo Groups I 
can set up everything on the web and have changes take effect 
immediately for switching to daily digest, no mail, individual emails, 
etc.  Plus the archives are easy to search.

But if you do want to switch to another system, please, please make 
sure that it has email access.  I don't want to have to log onto some 
web forum somewhere, worry about another password, etc.  I want 
everything to come to my mailbox automatically without having to think 
about it!

Certainly ties in with the whole point of Shadow-- making my life 
easier to manage!

> Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> a "mailing list"?
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in another
> > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see any
> > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > two cents    :)
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
~-->
> Internal Cell Phone Antenna
> Boosts reception on all cellular phones.
> Just $19.99 at Youcansave.com
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L11sED/PkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically blocked 
newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that did 
not include email.

Jen

> Yes. I travel constantly, and find forums that are only web
> based to be of little value. I much prefer being able to 
> suck down my mail and read/respond as time permits. Newsgroups
> are another option that would permit this as well.
> 
> Quoting Alan (as0900@h...):
> > Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> > a "mailing list"?
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in 
another
> > > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see 
any
> > > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > > two cents    :)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
~-->
> Clever Cam is a pen sized digital camera, webcam, and mini-camcorder. 
Just $79.95 at Youcansave.com.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/F11sED/NkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Alan wrote:

> Because it's just so much easier to follow a thread in a standard 
> usenet-type format using a client designed for that.  If Google picks 
> up the group, it can also become part of their massive archive, which 
> is great when you are seeking answers that may have already been 
> provided by others.

	Google should browse through the mailing lists already, I'd think.

> I find that trying to follow threads here is a bit of a task 
> sometimes.

	Hmm. That makes me wonder how I do it :)

	If I can find an easy nntp server and email gateway I'll do it,
but usually they're a huge chroe to configure..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

On 2001-11-01 at 11:02, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   I have considered setting up a nntp server with an email gateway,
> so you could read/post to the shadow forums via News.. but email pretty
> much takes care of it.

Yes, please keep the lists as email lists

            jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

Quoting PocketGoddess (jen@p...):
> But if you do want to switch to another system, please, please make 
> sure that it has email access.  I don't want to have to log onto some 
> web forum somewhere, worry about another password, etc.  I want 
> everything to come to my mailbox automatically without having to think 
> about it!

Woah, Jen and I agree on something? This is a landmark day! Let me
make note of it in my Datebk4 Journal! <grin>

Seriously, I have to agree, I find that I rarely get to the web only
forums, no matter how useful the information might be.

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

Quoting PocketGoddess (jen@p...):
> Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically blocked 
> newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that did 
> not include email.

I'm curious Jen, are they just not hosting newsgroups, or have they
prevented you from accessing external nntp servers as well by 
blocking the port?

From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:01pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

OK, but what about free forums offered on Delphi.  Check out 
http://www.delphi.com/infinite_loops/messages for example.  Notice 
how nice it is to be able to follow threads, etc?   

Forums are completely configurable; the forum admin(s) can set up 
polls (i.e. do you prefer this feature or that feature), read-only 
forums, file sections, and even chats.Of course, files can be added 
as well, and links, etc. Remember that membership is free, accesable 
from any web browswer, and controllable by the forum admin(s).   

Jeff can even put a tab up top which takes users directly to the 
codejedi.com site, and let's you return back to the forums easily.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
> Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically 
blocked 
> newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that 
did 
> not include email.
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

I don't plan on switching to anything; I didn't start this thread
;)

		jeff

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Yahoo Groups has a lot to recommend it-- specifically very easy web 
> setup options-- there are quite a few people who just don't handle 
> sending arcane commands to mailing list servers.  With Yahoo Groups I 
> can set up everything on the web and have changes take effect 
> immediately for switching to daily digest, no mail, individual emails, 
> etc.  Plus the archives are easy to search.
> 
> But if you do want to switch to another system, please, please make 
> sure that it has email access.  I don't want to have to log onto some 
> web forum somewhere, worry about another password, etc.  I want 
> everything to come to my mailbox automatically without having to think 
> about it!
> 
> Certainly ties in with the whole point of Shadow-- making my life 
> easier to manage!
> 
> > Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> > a "mailing list"?
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in another
> > > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see any
> > > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > > two cents    :)
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Internal Cell Phone Antenna
> > Boosts reception on all cellular phones.
> > Just $19.99 at Youcansave.com
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L11sED/PkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> jen@p...
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically blocked 
> newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that did 
> not include email.

	Just gabbing about options; I would only add news as an extra
gateway; ie: shadow-discuss is available on the web and in email.. why not
also in news? (also in, not replacing)

		jeff

> 
> Jen
> 
> > Yes. I travel constantly, and find forums that are only web
> > based to be of little value. I much prefer being able to 
> > suck down my mail and read/respond as time permits. Newsgroups
> > are another option that would permit this as well.
> > 
> > Quoting Alan (as0900@h...):
> > > Do you mean the ability to opt for participating strictly as 
> > > a "mailing list"?
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@v...> wrote:
> > > > I feel obligated to jump in here <grin> only because I am in 
> another
> > > > group wrestling with the same forum issues. I would hate to see 
> any
> > > > migration to a forum that did NOT support email access. Just my
> > > > two cents    :)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > 
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Clever Cam is a pen sized digital camera, webcam, and mini-camcorder. 
> Just $79.95 at Youcansave.com.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/F11sED/NkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> jen@p...
> http://www.pocketgoddess.com
> 98% Palm OS, 100% Fun
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

For which you have to register, fill out a survey so that you can get 
targeted advertising, get regular junk mail "updates" from Delphi, and 
also potentially get tons of emails from advertisers as well.  No 
thanks.

Jen

> OK, but what about free forums offered on Delphi.  Check out 
> http://www.delphi.com/infinite_loops/messages for example.  Notice 
> how nice it is to be able to follow threads, etc?   
> 
> Forums are completely configurable; the forum admin(s) can set up 
> polls (i.e. do you prefer this feature or that feature), read-only 
> forums, file sections, and even chats.Of course, files can be added 
> as well, and links, etc. Remember that membership is free, accesable 
> from any web browswer, and controllable by the forum admin(s).   
> 
> Jeff can even put a tab up top which takes users directly to the 
> codejedi.com site, and let's you return back to the forums easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:
> > Not newsgroups!!  I'm a student and my school has specifically 
> blocked 
> > newsgroup access.  I would sincerely hate to see any option that 
> did 
> > not include email.
> > 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
~-->
> Cobra Gas Powered Scooter. Top speed exceeds 25 mph.
> Originally $599.95.
> Now $399.95 at Youcansave.com.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/K11sED/OkNDAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
~->
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
jen@p...
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:32pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Alan wrote:

> OK, but what about free forums offered on Delphi.  Check out 
> http://www.delphi.com/infinite_loops/messages for example.  Notice 
> how nice it is to be able to follow threads, etc?   

	But does it also do mailing lists via prue email?

	At any rate, I'm not going to move shadow-discuss forum somewhere
else, since yahoogroups is pretty good, everyone likes it, and we've got a
year of history here. (ie: Lots of searchable materials and past
discussions). Also, migrating 800 people over woudl be a huge amount of
work :)

> Jeff can even put a tab up top which takes users directly to the 
> codejedi.com site, and let's you return back to the forums easily.

	YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:38pm
Subject: Sneaky!

A few people have asked so I thought I'd mention it. I outsmarted
you multi-desktop people - If you buy one desktop registration, it is for
your desktop use anywhere. The registration, since you enter it into your
handheld, carries with you. Sit down at a shadow desktop you've installed
at work, hit sync, and you're automatically registered there. You do not
need to buy a second desktop license for your use on a second desktop
computer.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Barbara Heaney  <baheaney@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

>       YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)

Actually, you can see the messages threaded on the YG web.  Logging into 
YG, select the group that you want, then on the left select Messages then 
on the right (under the search achive box) is says " Date | Thread 
"  select Thread and there you go.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/messages/2483?threaded=1  Here 
is what it looks like.


:)
Barbara

From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:54pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

Yeah, I know -- it's just not as easty to work with as nntp or even 
Delphi.

In the end, I'm here for the info and the guidance of others (and 
eventually, to be able to provide feedback beyond this kind of issue) 
so if everyone is happy, that's OK too!

I never really liked mailing lists -- just a personal preference I 
guess.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Barbara Heaney <baheaney@h...> wrote:
> 
> >       YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)
> 
> Actually, you can see the messages threaded on the YG web.  Logging 
into 
> YG, select the group that you want, then on the left select 
Messages then 
> on the right (under the search achive box) is says " Date | Thread 
> "  select Thread and there you go.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/messages/2483?
threaded=1  Here 
> is what it looks like.
> 
> 
> :)
> Barbara

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 8:58pm
Subject: How come I am clueless?

I went to www.codejedi.com and downloaded setup20.zip
Extracted it and ran the setup20.exe
  - no desktop was installed.

I went to palmgear and selected each of the 3 different shadow 
downloads and extracted and installed.
  - no desktop installed.

I've also hotsynced with each of the FOUR attempted installs of the 
desktop.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your time!

From: Alan  <as0900@h...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:00pm
Subject: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "PocketGoddess" <jen@p...> wrote:

"For which you have to register, fill out a survey so that you can 
get 
targeted advertising, get regular junk mail "updates" from Delphi, 
and 
also potentially get tons of emails from advertisers as well.  No 
thanks."

That's not really the case.  You can opt out of email spam just by 
unchecking the box when you register, and you take the survey so that 
they can target the ads on the site when you're signed in, not to 
email you items.

Delphi was just an example.  I find for message exchange purposes, 
it's clear and easy to work with/follow, but being the newbie around 
here, it's not my intention to re-invent the wheel, especially if 
everyone is happy with YG.  

From what I can see, the postings here tend to have the "feel" 
and "flow" of a newsgroup or forum type environment and less of a 
mailing-list; that's why I see pluses for a different format.  

You'll recall that I started this section of the conversation this 
morning with a comment like "I'm just curious about why YG" or 
something remotely resembling that statement... :)

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:02pm
Subject: OT: Forums for fun and profit

Another option is to look into changing your email client. I use
mutt myself, and it gives me complete email treading of this and
all of the mailing lists I'm subscribed to. Really the look is 
no different than a newsserver.

Quoting Alan (as0900@h...):
> Yeah, I know -- it's just not as easty to work with as nntp or even 
> Delphi.
> 
> In the end, I'm here for the info and the guidance of others (and 
> eventually, to be able to provide feedback beyond this kind of issue) 
> so if everyone is happy, that's OK too!
> 
> I never really liked mailing lists -- just a personal preference I 
> guess.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Barbara Heaney <baheaney@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > >       YG does all of these things; just doesn't handle threads :)
> > 
> > Actually, you can see the messages threaded on the YG web.  Logging 
> into 
> > YG, select the group that you want, then on the left select 
> Messages then 
> > on the right (under the search achive box) is says " Date | Thread 
> > "  select Thread and there you go.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/messages/2483?
> threaded=1  Here 
> > is what it looks like.
> > 
> > 
> > :)
> > Barbara
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: Re: How come I am clueless?

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:

> I went to www.codejedi.com and downloaded setup20.zip

> Extracted it and ran the setup20.exe
>   - no desktop was installed.

	I bet it was :) Look in the Shadow Plan folder in your Start menu.

> I've also hotsynced with each of the FOUR attempted installs of the 
> desktop.

	So your handheld at least has Shadow Plan 2.0, 4 times over :)

	What install path did you give the installer? IF you look there,
do you see a bunch of files, including shadow.exe?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 9:08pm
Subject: Re: How come I am clueless?

Sure enough it was on my menu.  I use an OS that if you don't visit 
folders for long periods of time it doesn't show them in your menu.  
My thought was that if I updated files in that folder it would show 
the folder once installation was done.  Incorrect.

Thanks for your help.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:
> 
> > I went to www.codejedi.com and downloaded setup20.zip
> 
> > Extracted it and ran the setup20.exe
> >   - no desktop was installed.
> 
> 	I bet it was :) Look in the Shadow Plan folder in your Start 
menu.
> 
> > I've also hotsynced with each of the FOUR attempted installs of 
the 
> > desktop.
> 
> 	So your handheld at least has Shadow Plan 2.0, 4 times over :)
> 
> 	What install path did you give the installer? IF you look 
there,
> do you see a bunch of files, including shadow.exe?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 10:15pm
Subject: some wierd things

jeff
was just playing around with the new version. very sweet. will be getting
the desktop next paycheck :)

i noticed a few things that i thought were odd. i am almost positive
that these are not related to the most recent release and are quirks that
have been carried from the older versions. if these are features /
abilities / fixes yet to come then please add my vote to add them.

1. when entering a plan file with broken links i get a warning. when i
tap ok i get the message again, as you warned, when i go to reopen the
file. but if i tap on sever all links i still have broken links inthe file
and keep getting the message when i reopen the file. i have manually
removed the links to correct the problem for now. i might have a backup
copy for you to pick apart if you need it. the offending links were a todo
and a calendar link (one of each). i wa palying around with the feature
and not sure if i might have messed things up in the initial creation
process.

2. when importing my todo list why did shadow create 3 seperate files for
about 150-200 todo's? does it have to do with a clipboard limit? i created
the files a few times just to be sure i wasn't missing something. i ended
up doing the cut/paste thing to put them all into a new file.

ian

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 10:04pm
Subject: Re: some wierd things

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Ian M. Sacklow wrote:

> 1. when entering a plan file with broken links i get a warning. when i
> tap ok i get the message again, as you warned, when i go to reopen the
> file. but if i tap on sever all links i still have broken links inthe file
> and keep getting the message when i reopen the file. i have manually
> removed the links to correct the problem for now. i might have a backup

	The "Sever" option doesn't currently mark the list as having been
changed.. so if you open a list, hit Sever All, then close the list, it
won't save the sever changes. You need to Sever All, then actually
*change* something, and then it will save the severs. Bug.

> 2. when importing my todo list why did shadow create 3 seperate files for
> about 150-200 todo's? does it have to do with a clipboard limit? i created
> the files a few times just to be sure i wasn't missing something. i ended
> up doing the cut/paste thing to put them all into a new file.

	Yeah; I'll have to try and improve it sometime, but essnetially
its due to various limits in the OS sometimes getting in the way. So
rather than spend a huge amount of time tunign it to each version of the
OS, I made it go with one of the older OS sets of limits, and that causes
it to break the files up into groups of 75 items or so, I think. Since
most people only import their todos once, its an acceptible hit. I plan on
adding a Merge option to make it bearable.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2001 10:29pm
Subject: Re: some wierd things

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:04:23 -0500 (EST)
> From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] some wierd things
> 
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Ian M. Sacklow wrote:
> 
> > 1. when entering a plan file with broken links i get a warning. when i
> > tap ok i get the message again, as you warned, when i go to reopen the
> > file. but if i tap on sever all links i still have broken links inthe file
> > and keep getting the message when i reopen the file. i have manually
> > removed the links to correct the problem for now. i might have a backup
> 
> 	The "Sever" option doesn't currently mark the list as having been
> changed.. so if you open a list, hit Sever All, then close the list, it
> won't save the sever changes. You need to Sever All, then actually
> *change* something, and then it will save the severs. Bug.
> 

will give that a try in the future until it is "fixed". only had one file
that was like that so it was no real big deal. still trying to get things
organized and out of my older programs.

> > 2. when importing my todo list why did shadow create 3 seperate files for
> > about 150-200 todo's? does it have to do with a clipboard limit? i created
> > the files a few times just to be sure i wasn't missing something. i ended
> > up doing the cut/paste thing to put them all into a new file.
> 
> 	Yeah; I'll have to try and improve it sometime, but essnetially
> its due to various limits in the OS sometimes getting in the way. So
> rather than spend a huge amount of time tunign it to each version of the
> OS, I made it go with one of the older OS sets of limits, and that causes
> it to break the files up into groups of 75 items or so, I think. Since
> most people only import their todos once, its an acceptible hit. I plan on
> adding a Merge option to make it bearable.

makes sense and very true. you do it once and that is it. in a way this is
forcing me to look for duplication between all my lists

ian

> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>

From: psplond@b...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:11am
Subject: Changes to file on desktop won't show up on handheld

I got my registration code and got the desktop registered. After 
reading the messages concerning this problem on this list, I assumed 
that registering would take care of this problem. But I pasted some 
notes into some of the entries on the desktop, and told it to send to 
HH, but the notes do not show up on my Palm. What am I doing wrong??? 
Please help!!!

Psalm

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:46am
Subject: Re: Changes to file on desktop won't show up on handheld

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 psplond@b... wrote:

> I got my registration code and got the desktop registered. After 
> reading the messages concerning this problem on this list, I assumed 
> that registering would take care of this problem. But I pasted some 
> notes into some of the entries on the desktop, and told it to send to 
> HH, but the notes do not show up on my Palm. What am I doing wrong??? 
> Please help!!!

	Is the list Sync Pref set? (Likely it is if you got it to download
to your handheld. On the handheld, go to List pulldown menu and pick
Prefs, and make sure the [] Sync checkbox is checked).

	Otherwise, find the lastsync.txt file and send it to me privately
and I'll look and see whats wrong. The documentation
(DesktopRefGuide) details how to find the debug log.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: psplond@b...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:51am
Subject: Fatal Alert when trying to delete a list

Unfortunately, I have encountered another problem. While testing to 
see if I could sync other files, I created a test file on the palm. I 
was able to see it on the desktop and all, but now when I try to 
delete it on the Palm, I get this message:

Fatal Alert
DataMgr.c,Line:8589,Index out of range <Reset>

What could be wrong?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:58am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert when trying to delete a list

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 psplond@b... wrote:

> Unfortunately, I have encountered another problem. While testing to 
> see if I could sync other files, I created a test file on the palm. I 

	btw.. if a list is open in the desktop, it will be skipped during
Sync since it isn't sure if you wish to keep your changes or not.

> was able to see it on the desktop and all, but now when I try to 
> delete it on the Palm, I get this message:
> 
> Fatal Alert
> DataMgr.c,Line:8589,Index out of range <Reset>

	Delete it, but don't have Shadow remove links in other lists to
it. This is a bug thats been in the handheld since about 1.5 I suspect,
but its pretty rare and I've been unable to reproduce it :/ I'm actively
tracking this one down.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: psplond@b...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 3:01am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert when trying to delete a list

Thanks, that worked. I will email you the lastsync log to the support 
address. 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 psplond@b... wrote:
> 
> > Unfortunately, I have encountered another problem. While testing 
to 
> > see if I could sync other files, I created a test file on the 
palm. I 
> 
> 	btw.. if a list is open in the desktop, it will be skipped 
during
> Sync since it isn't sure if you wish to keep your changes or not.
> 
> > was able to see it on the desktop and all, but now when I try to 
> > delete it on the Palm, I get this message:
> > 
> > Fatal Alert
> > DataMgr.c,Line:8589,Index out of range <Reset>
> 
> 	Delete it, but don't have Shadow remove links in other lists 
to
> it. This is a bug thats been in the handheld since about 1.5 I 
suspect,
> but its pretty rare and I've been unable to reproduce it :/ I'm 
actively
> tracking this one down.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 9:38am
Subject: Re: Three small requests for MiniEditor

Le 1 Nov 2001, ā 8:15, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> > control the position of the 
> > miniEditor window by tapping outside it 
> 
>  Thats a neat idea! We'd discussed having a tap-outside close it,
> but it was an even user split between that being a OK or Cancel. Making it
> move the window would be a useful extensions.

I like the idea, but not the mean :

I'd prefer to keep the mini editor fixed where it is, but be able to scroll the 
outline  "behind",

and

I would enjoy if a single tap outside mini editor dismissed it.


But I don't wan't to initiate a dispute over that ;-))





Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: alwaysenuf@y...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:21pm
Subject: International characters Fix

Hi Jeff, 
Thanks for all your hard work.  Please know that I do appreciate your 
tireless support of this product.  I feel reaally petty being such a 
spoiler/complainer, But... 

I got the reg code and now i have a file or two on the desktop and a 
backup folder that appears to be empty, but... the shadow files won't 
open.  I get an error message about International Characters.... 
(Maybe not well formed at line ##) I didn't even know I had 'em. ;) 
Consequently I still can't use the desktop... Any idea when the 
International Characters problem will be addressed?

Thanks for your attentions- and for putting together what I'm sure is 
a Fantastic product(... whenever i get to use it...{{SMILE}}) In the 
meantime, I'll be...

resolving my Karmic issues with Patience!
ms

From: pw@w...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:36pm
Subject: Using PiDirectVFS

Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505). 
When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the 
handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move 
Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.

Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information 
must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.

The good thing is that a subsequent hotsync, with Shadow back on the 
card, did not unregister it.

Peter

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:50pm
Subject: Re: International characters Fix

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 alwaysenuf@y... wrote:

> I got the reg code and now i have a file or two on the desktop and a 
> backup folder that appears to be empty, but... the shadow files won't 
> open.  I get an error message about International Characters.... 
> (Maybe not well formed at line ##) I didn't even know I had 'em. ;) 
> Consequently I still can't use the desktop... Any idea when the 
> International Characters problem will be addressed?

	There will be an international friendly version hopefully in 2-3
weeks. IF you want to help out, send me the XML file that has the load
problem, and the corresponding PDB backup. It'll help me track down the
unsupported character.

> Thanks for your attentions- and for putting together what I'm sure is 
> a Fantastic product(... whenever i get to use it...{{SMILE}}) In the 
> meantime, I'll be...

	You can check that line number in the XML file, if you're
adventurous, and then from the text you can find the corresponding item in
your handheld, and see whats causing the problem, and then remove the
character and the XML file. Then sync and you're all set.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 pw@w... wrote:

> Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505). 
> When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the 
> handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move 
> Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.
> 
> Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information 
> must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.
> 
> The good thing is that a subsequent hotsync, with Shadow back on the 
> card, did not unregister it.

	I really have no idea ;) If you still have the lastsync.txt's, you
could forward them over and maybe there will besome useful notes therein.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: marc_lehman@m...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 4:06pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

On the other hand, I run Shadow off a Memory Stick in my Clie 760 with 
PiDirect, and my desktop registered normally.  Which version of PiDirect 
are you using?  I'm on 1.3 final which just released in the last couple 
of days.

Let me know if I can be of any debugging assistance here.

Marc

On Friday, November 2, 2001, at 07:51 AM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 pw@w... wrote:
>
> > Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505).
> > When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the
> > handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move
> > Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.
> >
> > Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information
> > must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.
> >
> > The good thing is that a subsequent hotsync, with Shadow back on the
> > card, did not unregister it.
>
>       I really have no idea ;) If you still have the lastsync.txt's, you
> could forward them over and maybe there will besome useful notes 
> therein.
>
>             jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>

>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

From: Steve O.  <misterclean1@e...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 4:49pm
Subject: Read the Quick Reference!

I keep seeing posts asking questions about the desktop which are clearly
answered in the Quick Reference or in the manual, e.g. the "sync" checkbox.
Jeff has produced wonderfully lucid help materials.  Let's us 'em, rather
than buggin Jeff and taking him away from his work on DT 2.0.  :-}

It's been said before, but I want to repeat how great it is to be part of
the development of Shadow according to Jeff's amazing ingenuity and
unprecedented responsiveness to his customers.  But let's not abuse the
man's responsiveness.  Read the manuals!

All the Best to Shadowplanners everywhere!

-- Steve in VB

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 7:32pm
Subject: Notes icon

The notes icon is behaving eratically, or so it seems.  On a single 
list, the icon is displayed for some items, but not for others.  As a 
result, some of my finest work remains hidden.

Is there a solution?

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Notes icon

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., grumpstone@y... wrote:
> 
> The notes icon is behaving eratically, or so it seems.  On a single 
> list, the icon is displayed for some items, but not for others.  As 
a 
> result, some of my finest work remains hidden.
> 
> Is there a solution?


Yes, there is a solution, and I figured it out myself.

In case you care, I was using a "custom" list with the notes icon 
supressed.  The notes icon was showing up on "checklist" items, but 
not on "custom" items.  So, I unchecked the "supresss notes icon" 
option for the custom list.  Shazam.

That notes icon is a new discovery.  Really useful....

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 8:05pm
Subject: Re: Notes icon

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> The notes icon is behaving eratically, or so it seems.  On a single 
> list, the icon is displayed for some items, but not for others.  As a 
> result, some of my finest work remains hidden.
> 
> Is there a solution?

	I've never heard of this before. If there is a note, the note icon
will appear. That code hasn't changed in more than a year...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Notes icon

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> Yes, there is a solution, and I figured it out myself.
> 
> In case you care, I was using a "custom" list with the notes icon 
> supressed.  The notes icon was showing up on "checklist" items, but 
> not on "custom" items.  So, I unchecked the "supresss notes icon" 
> option for the custom list.  Shazam.
> 
> That notes icon is a new discovery.  Really useful....

	Ahh, good call; yeah, you have to watch out for the
customizations. They're very useful, but if you're not careful, they'll
confuse you :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Tom Moughan  <tommoughan@y...>
Date: Fri Nov 2, 2001 10:37pm
Subject: Re: can't load revised XML-> LAST THING: extension password quesstion

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > Jeff: Are there special characters that I should stay away from 
in 
> > the text or Memo sections of the desktop that would "polute" the 
XML 
> > format??  or what should I look for?
> 
> 	The 1.0 application gets confused by *some* non-ASCII
> characters. Which ones depends on various things and also your 
Windows OS
> version. (I expect another release in 2 weeks to fix international
> character problems).
> 
> 	What sort of non-ASCII chars were you writing?
> 
> 		jeff
>

OK, my problem was trying to load up the handheld with a project it 
already had.  There were no special characters.  I was just guessing 
that I created a bad XML file when I saved my changes...

I did have a time entering my extension password on the handheld.  It 
was not accepted initially.  I rekeyed the handheld only password, 
and I think I put the extension one in after that... accessed the 
Special screen, came back .. very confused...

What's the right sequence to enter the extension password, and do I 
have to go through the rekey the registration number step with each 
upgrade?


Thanks!
>> Tom

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 1:10am
Subject: Re: Re: can't load revised XML-> LAST THING: extension password quesstion

On Fri, 2 Nov 2001, Tom  Moughan wrote:

> What's the right sequence to enter the extension password, and do I 
> have to go through the rekey the registration number step with each 
> upgrade?

	Its covered in the manuals, but for expansion pack..

	Your Shadow Plan must be registered already. If it is not, you
must do so.

	Register your expansion.

	You're done.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 8:20am
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

--On Thursday, November 01, 2001 20:20:43 +0100 Jan Erik Moström <lists@m...> wrote:

> On 2001-11-01 at 11:02, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
>>   I have considered setting up a nntp server with an email gateway,
>> so you could read/post to the shadow forums via News.. but email pretty
>> much takes care of it.
>
> Yes, please keep the lists as email lists

I also prefer receiving shadow-discuss as e-mail rather than using an
awkward and slower web interface.  Unless I've missed something, there's
no way to keep track of which messages you've read with the Yahoo! Groups
web interface.

-lux

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 8:56am
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

--On Friday, November 02, 2001 14:36:15 +0000 pw@w... wrote:

> Just a heads-up. I run Shadow on the SD Card with PiDirectVFS (m505).
> When I first hotsynced, after registering the desktop on the
> handheld, the DT was still unregistered. I had to first move
> Shadow.prc to RAM, then hotsynch and then move it back to the SD Card.
>
> Why is that? Shadow.prc is read-only and the registration information
> must be going into a database in RAM, and it was there the whole time.

[...]

When using Visor-only PiDirect software with a MemPlug adaptor it's
sometimes necessary to first run an application from RAM before it's
run from removable media.  I don't recall specific details from when
it was discussed on the memplug Yahoo! Group a few months ago; you
could search here:

  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/memplug>

The PiDirectVFS group might also be helpful:

  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pidirectvfs_group>

Have fun,

-lux

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 9:02am
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

--On Friday, November 02, 2001 09:06:14 -0700 marc_lehman@m... wrote:

> On the other hand, I run Shadow off a Memory Stick in my Clie 760 with
> PiDirect,  [...]

You must mean PiDirectVFS since "plain" PiDirect only runs with MemPlug Springboard adaptors on Visors and doesn't require VFS.  PiDirect is
included with MemPlug hardware; PiDirectVFS is a shareware product.

-lux

From: pw@w...
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 3:18pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 pw@w... wrote:
> 
> 	I really have no idea ;) If you still have the 
> lastsync.txt's, you
> could forward them over and maybe there will besome useful notes
> therein.

Sorry, long overwritten. I will try to remember to watch it if I ever 
have to go through it again.

Peter

From: pw@w...
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Using PiDirectVFS

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., marc_lehman@m... wrote:
> On the other hand, I run Shadow off a Memory Stick in my Clie 760 
with 
> PiDirect, and my desktop registered normally.  Which version of 
PiDirect 
> are you using?  I'm on 1.3 final which just released in the last 
couple 
> of days.
> 
> Let me know if I can be of any debugging assistance here.

Marc, 

thanks, it all seems fine now and no debugging needed. I am also 
running 1.3 final.

Peter

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

I don't understand why this is an issue. As far as I know, there is 
an option on yahoo groups to have new messages emailed to you. In 
fact that's how I get them. I only go to the group to retrieve a 
message that I recall having seen and have deleted. And in that sense 
the group is a useful archive. Far, far easier to use than some 
hard-to-remember-when-you-need-it command emailed to the listserve.

At 22:20 -1000 01/11/02, Lux Natura wrote:
>--On Thursday, November 01, 2001 20:20:43 +0100 Jan Erik Moström 
><lists@m...> wrote:
>
>>  On 2001-11-01 at 11:02, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>>
>>>    I have considered setting up a nntp server with an email gateway,
>>>  so you could read/post to the shadow forums via News.. but email pretty
>>>  much takes care of it.
>>
>>  Yes, please keep the lists as email lists
>
>I also prefer receiving shadow-discuss as e-mail rather than using an
>awkward and slower web interface.  Unless I've missed something, there's
>no way to keep track of which messages you've read with the Yahoo! Groups
>web interface.
>
>-lux
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


--

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Sat Nov 3, 2001 10:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: 2.0 Desktop Questions / Problems ???

--On Saturday, November 03, 2001 09:23:20 -0700 Ken Gordon <ksg@t...> wrote:

> I don't understand why this is an issue.  [...]

Sent private reply.

-lux

From: kevinprice@u...
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 3:25am
Subject: Handheld file only?

Can someone please post or email me the files needed for the handheld only?  The handheld-only download on PalmGear and CodeJedi appear to be the same size as the handheld/desktop download (2.18 MB).

Either .zip or .prc/.pdb's are okay.

Thanks,

Kevin

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 3:35am
Subject: Re: Handheld file only?

On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 kevinprice@u... wrote:

> Can someone please post or email me the files needed for the handheld
> only?  The handheld-only download on PalmGear and CodeJedi appear to
> be the same size as the handheld/desktop download (2.18 MB).

	All 2.0 downloads are the same; just grab it and install the
Shadow.prc manually if you do not wish to use the Setup20.exe program.
(ie: I used to have 2 different distributions to minimize download times
for those who didn't want the Windows stuff. But then I got Windows people
asking me which to download all the time). If you want a smaller release,
I'll be making one up soon since now I'm getting the request for a smaller
download ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Tom Moughan  <tommoughan@y...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 4:10am
Subject: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

I was building a large project by linking my exsting todos, using NEW 
From...  I was able to bring the same ToDo in twice?  Should this be 
really allowed?

Once done, the first time accidentally, I unlinked one of the two 
duplicates, but left the duplicates in the project, one linked, one 
not, hit the "X" icon.. and I got:  

Fatal Alert
MemoryMgr.c, Line:4342
Null Handle

I have no Hacks running.  I repeated the sequence, but I saved the 
project after linking in the first new task, then saved again after 
linking in the duplicate, then opened, unlinked, DONE... and same 
FATAL error.

I assume my recommended action was to delete the duplicate. ?  Is a 
warning possible when I try to unknowingly import a duplicate?
>> Tom

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 4:46am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

On Sun, 4 Nov 2001, Tom  Moughan wrote:

> I was building a large project by linking my exsting todos, using NEW 
> From...  I was able to bring the same ToDo in twice?  Should this be 
> really allowed?

	Yes. ie: I have several times linked a todo into 3 or 4 separate
lists -- it makes sense.

	Second, how would Shadow know otherwise? ie: You hit New From, you
pick a Todo, is Shadow to scan all of your lists right then to see if
you've linked it before? Impossible. 

	the only way to do so is to have Shadow pollute your Notes with
Shadow markings (a la Datebook). But I really dislike polluting Notes :/

> Once done, the first time accidentally, I unlinked one of the two 
> duplicates, but left the duplicates in the project, one linked, one 
> not, hit the "X" icon.. and I got:  
> 
> Fatal Alert
> MemoryMgr.c, Line:4342
> Null Handle

	How did you unlink it? IF you "delete link entirely" or the like,
then you killed the link.

	Obviously I need to do some refertial integrity checks for
multiple linked items in the same list.

> I assume my recommended action was to delete the duplicate. ?  Is a 
> warning possible when I try to unknowingly import a duplicate?

	I think for now when you have a double link, you must sever and
not delete the link. Deleting the link causes the other link to be left
orphaned (broken), but Shadow doesn't check for newly-broken while saving.

		jeff

> >> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Todd Henion  <henion@t...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2001 5:09am
Subject: Re: How come I am clueless? Digest Number 277

Jeff's product is polite enough not to smatter the desktop, tray and menus
with aliases/shortcuts. Unlike most wintel software, it installs where it
should be and awaits your setup needs.
Software should have a philosophy; which is why I love Shadow.
As always, 
Todd 
> Subject: Re: How come I am clueless?
> 
> Sure enough it was on my menu.  I use an OS that if you don't visit
> folders for long periods of time it doesn't show them in your menu.
> My thought was that if I updated files in that folder it would show
> the folder once installation was done.  Incorrect.
> 
> Thanks for your help.

From: Tom Moughan  <tommoughan@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 3:01am
Subject: Re: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

>How did you unlink it? IF you "delete link entirely" or the like, 
then you killed the link.
> 
>Obviously I need to do some refertial integrity checks for
> multiple linked items in the same list.

I unlinked by unchecking the "To Do Link Column" from my custom view.

Thanks for your reply.  

Three "future" suggestions for the New From... selection box:

(1) NOT list a to do in the New From... function if it is already in 
the current open project? or show it uniquely somehow..[X] ?

(2) I know that the to dos listed in this function are limited by the 
week of the target date.  The ones without a target date (my personal 
challenge) are not listed... possibly a NO DATE option when you "pick 
week" or a NO DATE check box similar to the LINK checkbox.

>> Tom

(3) After you select and insert the new to do, have it come in with 
the hierarchy assigned.  Now one has to demote/promote to have it 
assigned currently...

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 4:26am
Subject: Re: Re: Fatal Alert - removing link from duplicate linked todo

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Tom  Moughan wrote:

> >Obviously I need to do some refertial integrity checks for
> > multiple linked items in the same list.
> 
> I unlinked by unchecking the "To Do Link Column" from my custom view.

	Thats "delete link entirely" equivalent. It removes the link.

> (1) NOT list a to do in the New From... function if it is already in 
> the current open project? or show it uniquely somehow..[X] ?

	Can't check to see if its in the current project; ie: Your project
could be 500 items and showing 10 todos on screen, after checking 500
items, is 5000 lookups which would take awhile.

> (2) I know that the to dos listed in this function are limited by the 
> week of the target date.  The ones without a target date (my personal 
> challenge) are not listed... possibly a NO DATE option when you "pick 
> week" or a NO DATE check box similar to the LINK checkbox.

	I think the dateless ones are always listed? There are some issues
with New From to be resolved, however :/

> (3) After you select and insert the new to do, have it come in with 
> the hierarchy assigned.  Now one has to demote/promote to have it 
> assigned currently...

	I think it follows the rules of New (ie: Follows the selected
item, or the end of the list). I coudl be wrong though.. I've not looked
at that part of the code in ages :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 4:58pm
Subject: Tags! Tags! Tags!

Need I say more?!

(Well actually I will...)
I miss ShadowPlan fiercely and want to come back home to it, but I had
to abandon it a while back when the much requested tags nevered showed
up and my outlines got too unwieldy without them.  Tags were to be the
answer to what I really wanted, that dead horse known as line item
categories.  So far we have gotten no line item categories, no tags.

Meanwhile, I am now using another outliner which does have filterable
line item categories (that coordinate/sync to ToDo categories).  In
addition, it handles import of ToDos (the equivalent of Shadow's 'New
from') exactly as I wish:  It allows the option to filter the ToDo
viewer/picker by category, displays more ToDos on its picker screen than
Shadow does,   scrolls through the ToDo list with no detectable delay in
displaying ToDos, and allows import/linking of multiple items into the
Outline at one time, rather than one item at a time.

Unfortunately, the tradeoff is I lose so many other wonderful features
unique to Shadow including it's snappiness.  For me, the need for these
two features (filterable line item categories--or at least tags--and a
snappier, more powerful 'New From') are so vital that I had to switch.
But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.

Please help me come back home.  I want to try and buy Shadow's Desktop
as well.  I want to share in the recent celebration.  Please come and
get me.  Please come back for me.

If this sounds desperate, it's because I am.

Thank you,
Frieda

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 5:05pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Frieda King wrote:

> (Well actually I will...)
> I miss ShadowPlan fiercely and want to come back home to it, but I had
> to abandon it a while back when the much requested tags nevered showed
> up and my outlines got too unwieldy without them.  Tags were to be the
> answer to what I really wanted, that dead horse known as line item
> categories.  So far we have gotten no line item categories, no tags.

	Much requested, but about 1/100th as much requested as desktop
support. Once the desktop is finished settling down, I'll get back to big
palm-side advances like tags :) (ie: Desktop still needs some
international fixes, and theres the Mac release.) I have only so much time
:)

> But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.

	I'll do the best I can :)

> Please help me come back home.  I want to try and buy Shadow's Desktop
> as well.  I want to share in the recent celebration.  Please come and
> get me.  Please come back for me.
> 
> If this sounds desperate, it's because I am.

	I'll see what I can do, but I'm done with 18 hour workdays for
awhile :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 5:41pm
Subject: Dead horse?

I thought I would try once again to appeal for line item categories.
Here why I need them.

The stock PalmOS ToDo list has always been inadequate for my needs.  Had
it been adequate, I would probably have no
need for ShadowPlan nor any other ToDo enhancers or Outliners.  With the
rather recent development of Palm Outliners (1st
Life Balance, then Progect and Shadow) to offer flat views of the ToDo
list, I would rather work inside the Outliner and
select the various views and filters of the ToDo list as needed.

Since currently no one Outliner is developed fully enough to be
sufficient in and of itself for my needs, I use several
Outliners to view the same information in different ways.  For some
users, ShadowPlan is just a staging area to sync items to
view in the ToDo list later.  For me, Shadow is both the staging and the
viewing area .  The stock ToDo list is just a go
between to sync this same information into the different Outliners to
make use of their particular strengths and unique
features.

The beauty is the stock ToDo makes it possible to keep the info synced
between the various apps.  When I make a change to
the priority, description, date or completion status in one app, it is
changed in all the other apps that are viewing or syncing
to the stock ToDo list including Shadow.  But when I make a change to
the category in one app, it is changed in all the other
apps ...except Shadow.  When the info gets to Shadow, I lose (mind you)
one of the features of the already inadequate stock
ToDo list, the ability to filter the list by category.  All of the other
ToDo Enhancement or Outliner apps that I use give you at
least all of the minimum ToDo features, then offer their additional
enhancements such as filters, alarms, views, repeats,
places, linking.

Yes, do add your planned tags.  They will be a welcome & unique
enhancement.  But do it in addition to (and after) adding
ToDo synchronized line item categories, not instead of.

Sorry for such a long post, but I had to get this out as I have wanted
this feature from day 1 of trying Shadow 1 year ago and
thought it was such an intuitive to include at least the minimum
features of ToDo that I am shocked that I still even have to
request it.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Thank you,
Frieda

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 5:49pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>         Much requested, but about 1/100th as much requested as desktop
> support. Once the desktop is finished settling down, I'll get back to big
> palm-side advances like tags :) (ie: Desktop still needs some
> international fixes, and theres the Mac release.) I have only so much time
> :)
>

Yes.  Realizing that is what has helped me to try to be patient.  But I think
it's the other little Palm enhancements that get
slipped in (such as pseudo inline-editting) that get to me (though obviously
this was probably quicker to do than tags)  Like
the desktop, it (inline-editting) was, for me, just a nice-to-have feature not
a must-have so while I am sure I will love it, I
still feel 'needy'.

>
> > But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.
>
>         I'll do the best I can :)
>

No doubt.

>         I'll see what I can do, but I'm done with 18 hour workdays for
> awhile :/
>
>                 jeff

Yes, do slow it down.  I don't want you to burn out before you get to tags ;-)

Just needed reassurance that Tags are on the way.
Thanks for listening as always,
Frieda

From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

I created a list in desktop.  Synced with my palm; changed layout and 
name. Synced with DT; added new items.  Removed original file with 
old name.  Synced with Palm and got the message in the subject.

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:04pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

So, Frieda,

I think what I hear you saying is that you'd like to
have tags? ;-)

(Just trying out some reflective listening skills) :P

Neal


--- Frieda King <freking@p...> wrote:
> Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 
> >         Much requested, but about 1/100th as much
> requested as desktop
> > support. Once the desktop is finished settling
> down, I'll get back to big
> > palm-side advances like tags :) (ie: Desktop still
> needs some
> > international fixes, and theres the Mac release.)
> I have only so much time
> > :)
> >
> 
> Yes.  Realizing that is what has helped me to try to
> be patient.  But I think
> it's the other little Palm enhancements that get
> slipped in (such as pseudo inline-editting) that get
> to me (though obviously
> this was probably quicker to do than tags)  Like
> the desktop, it (inline-editting) was, for me, just
> a nice-to-have feature not
> a must-have so while I am sure I will love it, I
> still feel 'needy'.
> 
> >
> > > But I am dying to get back to using Shadow.
> >
> >         I'll do the best I can :)
> >
> 
> No doubt.
> 
> >         I'll see what I can do, but I'm done with
> 18 hour workdays for
> > awhile :/
> >
> >                 jeff
> 
> Yes, do slow it down.  I don't want you to burn out
> before you get to tags ;-)
> 
> Just needed reassurance that Tags are on the way.
> Thanks for listening as always,
> Frieda
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


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From: M. Schneider  <meeka@y...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:05pm
Subject: Re: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "M. Schneider" <meeka@y...> wrote:
> I created a list in desktop.  Synced with my palm; changed layout 
and 
> name. Synced with DT; added new items.  Removed original file with 
> old name.  Synced with Palm and got the message in the subject.
Further expansion on subject:
When I synced after rename, the original name was still in DT folder 
along with the new name for the file after the sync.

From: Frieda King  <freking@p...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 6:29pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

Neal Cordle wrote:

> So, Frieda,
>
> I think what I hear you saying is that you'd like to
> have tags? ;-)
>

Well yeah sure if want to put it in the concise, short, sweet and
to-the-point manner.
But I like my long, whiny, bawl-baby version better ;-)

> (Just trying out some reflective listening skills) :P
>

Not bad!  Maybe I should try that short & sweet thing some time, too! (Too
late for the messages I posted earlier today).
Thanks for the smile.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Frieda King wrote:

> I thought I would try once again to appeal for line item categories.

	Its not about appealing; appealing doesn't get me more time in the
day :) I usually go by some order derived by how much work something is,
its priority to a number of people, and its tediousness. If something is
higly tedious yet very quick and desirable, I may do it. If its enjoyable
and quick and useful, it most certainly will get done sooner than tedious
and long and useless. Right now I have a *huge* amount of support (number
of downloads == amount of support, and with the expansion pack ...),
followed by a high need to fix international support in the desktop, and
then the Mac version. Thats just to get things under control.

	*Then* I can get to features. The international support and email
support are top priority right now. It has to be that way.

> changed in all the other apps that are viewing or syncing
> to the stock ToDo list including Shadow.  But when I make a change to
> the category in one app, it is changed in all the other
> apps ...except Shadow.  When the info gets to Shadow, I lose (mind you)
> one of the features of the already inadequate stock
> ToDo list, the ability to filter the list by category.  All of the other

	Technically, Shadow offers the same categorization as any other
program. Shadow also adds the abilities to have lists. You could have one
list per category, and thus have the same flexibility as any other
program. You *perceive* less, but you have more :)

	Tags will come, but they have to come in order. I cannot let down
40% of Shadow users who are overseas.

> Yes, do add your planned tags.  They will be a welcome & unique
> enhancement.  But do it in addition to (and after) adding
> ToDo synchronized line item categories, not instead of.

	I'm not sure Tags can be synced to todo categories. If you have
200 tags, how do you sync them to categories?

> Sorry for such a long post, but I had to get this out as I have wanted
> this feature from day 1 of trying Shadow 1 year ago and
> thought it was such an intuitive to include at least the minimum
> features of ToDo that I am shocked that I still even have to
> request it.

	Its a lot of work, and much less requested than most other
features. (I know once it gets implemented, people will love it. But its
also somethign peopel don't know they need. The desktop app, ofr instance,
got me 100 requests a day for months! :)

	I've not forgotten it. But its also not like I have copious
amounts of time :(

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 7:59pm
Subject: Re: Tags! Tags! Tags!

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, Frieda King wrote:

> Yes.  Realizing that is what has helped me to try to be patient.  But I think
> it's the other little Palm enhancements that get
> slipped in (such as pseudo inline-editting) that get to me (though obviously

	If you go back and count the number of requests for in-line
editting, you will see it too dwarfs most other requests. Also, the mini
editor was a total of only a days work, spread out across a fe weeks. (It
got mostly built a month or two back, but not installed into the main
source tree till a few weeks ago :P)  The graphical button bar was a days
work, plus the graphical icons and such which we fiddled with for a little
while.

> this was probably quicker to do than tags)  Like the desktop, it
> (inline-editting) was, for me, just a nice-to-have feature not a
> must-have so while I am sure I will love it, I still feel 'needy'.

	It was a must-have for a lot of people.

> Just needed reassurance that Tags are on the way.
> Thanks for listening as always,

	Its definitely coming. Sooner than later these days. 

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:00pm
Subject: Re: DT: Bad Load- The list could not be loaded

On Mon, 5 Nov 2001, M. Schneider wrote:

> I created a list in desktop.  Synced with my palm; changed layout and 
> name. Synced with DT; added new items.  Removed original file with 
> old name.  Synced with Palm and got the message in the subject.

	Got the lastsync.txt of the sync that potentially had problems?

	"Changed layout and name"? Howso? "Removed original file" implies
you copied the file before messing with it?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Mon Nov 5, 2001 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Dead horse?

On 2001-11-05 at 14:55, Jeff Mitchell <