From: maclover88  <maclover88@m...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 0:08pm
Subject: another question

I just had to reinstall all my files from my Palm desktop software on my
Mac. I was surprised that all my old deleatd Shadow files reappeared on my
Visor. I went into the backup folder and pulled out all the old files, but
it was a pain. Is there an easy way that Shadow can mark Archive files so it
is easier to do a current restore?

Now that I am getting up to speed, I want to thank Jeff for such a cool app.

Thanks,
Jim

From: keho@c...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 3:25pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

>>Which version of Shadow are you using? 
1.5.14

>>Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
I've disabled all of my hacks.  I've also wiped all apps and data 
from RAM (still stuff on the SD card and a few things in flash) and 
just put the Shadow prc and pdb files back.  Still getting the same 
problem with the ToDo sorting.  Tried to think of anything else that 
would affect sorting and couldn't come up with anything.

Any other thoughts?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:
> 
> > case).  In the ToDo application, my default sort order 
is "Category, 
> > Priority".  When I view my to do's in Datebk4, they are also 
sorted 
> > by Category then Priority, as DB4 uses the sort order specified 
in 
> > the Palm ToDo application.  
> 
> 	Which version of Shadow are you using? Since you can do link
> categories, you're likely in 1.5.14, and all the Shadows since way 
back
> (1.3.?) have made sure to use the proper sort ordering. (If not 
earlier
> versions). If Shadow didn't sort it correctly, a lot of people 
would be
> after me ;)
> 
> 	Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pg@d...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 4:01pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

> 	Which version of Shadow are you using? Since you can do link
> categories, you're likely in 1.5.14, and all the Shadows since way 
back
> (1.3.?) have made sure to use the proper sort ordering. (If not 
earlier
> versions). If Shadow didn't sort it correctly, a lot of people 
would be
> after me ;)
> 
> 	Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?

I've also had this problem! I created a new Shadow item, priority 2, 
and created a link to ToDo. The new item showed up in the ToDo list 
at the end (i.e. after the priority 3 items) even though the sort 
order was "Priority then date". The rest of the existing ToDo items 
remained sorted correctly. New items created directly in ToDo were 
inserted into the right place, but the linked item remained at the 
end. Quitting and re-entering ToDo didn't help. Changing the Category 
filter in ToDo and back again didn't help. Changing the priority of 
the item then changing it back did, however, cause it to re-sort 
properly.

But, darn it, this only happened *once*, the very first time I 
created a linked item! It has *never* happened again. (Grrr! ;-) )

I'm using 1.5.14 (unregistered) on an m505 (OS4.0) with the built-in 
ToDo app. No fancy stuff, no hacks, no DateBook replacement.

But... while I'm here... I have noticed one other small 'bug'.

I have a list which is set to create new link items in the ToDo 
category 'Work'. However, when I create a link, the category is 
listed as 'Unfiled'. If I click on the 'Unfiled' box, the list of 
ToDo categories appears, and 'Work' is highlighted. If I click 
on 'Work', the list collapses, but 'Unfiled' is again displayed as 
the selected item. However, if I OK the link, and go back in to the 
link manager, 'Work' is now displayed (and the item has correctly 
been linked to 'Work' in the ToDo list).

I now ignore this discrepancy because I know that even if I don't try 
to change the category from 'Unfiled' it is in fact going to create 
the item in 'Work'.

I couldn't find any other mention of this problem on the group.

(Shadow is a very nice app though. It's not absolutely perfect for my 
use, but the ToDo linking is done nicely enough that I can integrate 
it with my existing ways of working. Now, if you can just get the 
child-parent date sort thing the way I like it... ;-) )

Regards, PatG

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I must say I'm in the camp of those who would prefer "true" inline 
> editing. I think those of us who use it "real-time" (.i.e. notes, in 
> meetings) want the fastest data entry--inline delivers this.  Those 
> individuals who use Shadow for planning (generally when more time is 
> available) would prefer the current method.

	Have you seen the mini editor (or screenshots thereof) I added
yesterday?

> Assuming the inline camp want it for initial fast data entry, can 
> another input method be created?  My proposal (not sure if it can be 
> done on the Palm)is to be able to import a outline fragment from a 
> memo into a Shadow outline.  Of course, the outline fragment would 
> need to follow existing import rules.  Also, importing a outline 
> fragment from the clipboard directly into a Shadow outline would be 
> preferable than saving to a file from memopad then importing directly 
> into a Shadow list.

	We can already import from memo to a new list. I was thinking of
adding a merge-two-lists option, so as to be most flexible. (It would be
useful for a wider variety of things then). So in theory you could import,
then merge. Would that help?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> What about, if three line mini-entry window :

	Oh deer. You're a freak ;)

	I didn't think of having a .. staying mini window. In that case,
I'd almost skip having a mini window entirely.. just have a permanent text
field at the bottom of the screen. (shorten the outline display). Have
little teeny icon buttons around it, and left-right next/prev panel
buttons to change the mini editor view.

	I don't think the palm screen is well suited to that.. the Clie
maybe, and maybe Handera (if it were taller rather than wider) .. where
you have space for stuff. But shortening the outline display, for more
edit space onscreen...

	Is that what you want?

	Pretty darned neat idea though, but a lot of work.

	Do you need to enter dates while seeing the outline onscreen? Or
isn't a Detail button enough, which just jumps you to the normal detail
window?

	Hmm..

	I really admire the idea :)

		jeff
> 
> Six buttons :
> 
> [Confirm] Would "send" the text but keep the  open for ongoing entry (to 
> dismiss : tap outside mini-entry), and the entered taxt would appear just 
> above the miniwindow (one item scroll in main screen)
> 
> [Cancel} Clears current entry  but keep the  open for ongoing entry
> and (maybe on the left side) :
> 
> [Date] : would call the date part of detail dialog (in a three lines mini 
> window) (while in date, confirm would bring you back to current text entry)
> (a second tap on [Date] would open the full screen Detail editor)
> 
> [Note] : would "send" the entry for item note (a second tap on [Note] would 
> open the full screen Note editor)
> 
> and [Next]  and [Child} :
> [Next]  could confirm and clear for a new sibbling with one tap, a new 
> upper level item with two taps
> [Child}  could confirm and clear for  a new child entry
> 
> 
> So the mini-windows could look like : 
> 
> 
> Item entry : 
> 
> [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> [Note]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> 
> 
> 
> Dates entry : 
> 
> [Date]  Target...........      Auto #        [Confirm]
> [Note]  Start.............      A-B-C         [Cancel}
> [Next]  Finish.................................  [Child}
> 
> 
> Note entry :
> 
> [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> [Title]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> 
> 
> That way : 
> 
> That would allow almost pure inline editing (ongoing, an eye on context)
> Miniwindow could be in Shadow options (recalled at first character entry, 
> when dismissed, )
> 
> 
> Just for thoughts,
> 
> 
> Jacques
> 
> Jacques Turbé
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:10pm
Subject: Re: another question

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

> I just had to reinstall all my files from my Palm desktop software on my
> Mac. I was surprised that all my old deleatd Shadow files reappeared on my
> Visor. I went into the backup folder and pulled out all the old files, but
> it was a pain. Is there an easy way that Shadow can mark Archive files so it
> is easier to do a current restore?

	That restore operation is entirely up to hotsync manager; it is
supposed to manage whethor the files should be deleted or kept or the
like. Not up to Shadow at all. (The XML is up to Shadow, but a restore in
that case is also work. I shall have to think about that)

	(In fact, you got off easy; the version of HM I use frequently
deletes the new versions on me and keeps the old ones .. I did as restore
awhile back and went back 6 months :/)

	Perhaps a newer version of HM works better for you? (mine is
pretty old and broken, I found out ;)

> Now that I am getting up to speed, I want to thank Jeff for such a
> cool app.

	Thanks for using it :) Be sure to let us know any other ideas you
have,

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> >>Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> I've disabled all of my hacks.  I've also wiped all apps and data 
> from RAM (still stuff on the SD card and a few things in flash) and 
> just put the Shadow prc and pdb files back.  Still getting the same 
> problem with the ToDo sorting.  Tried to think of anything else that 
> would affect sorting and couldn't come up with anything.
> 
> Any other thoughts?

	Your'e using OS4.x then. Does it have more sorting options than
the old ToDo apps in 3.x? IF it changes things a little, it could confuse
shadow..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 pg@d... wrote:

> But, darn it, this only happened *once*, the very first time I 
> created a linked item! It has *never* happened again. (Grrr! ;-) )

	Once? Hmm..

	You're also on OS4.x; I wonder if there ssomething there. I don't
have an OS4 unit yet.

> I have a list which is set to create new link items in the ToDo 
> category 'Work'. However, when I create a link, the category is 
> listed as 'Unfiled'. If I click on the 'Unfiled' box, the list of 
> ToDo categories appears, and 'Work' is highlighted. If I click 
> on 'Work', the list collapses, but 'Unfiled' is again displayed as 
> the selected item. However, if I OK the link, and go back in to the 
> link manager, 'Work' is now displayed (and the item has correctly 
> been linked to 'Work' in the ToDo list).

	Display bug; it works fine, just displays wrong. Thanks for
reminding me.. I'll see if I can fix it.

> I couldn't find any other mention of this problem on the group.

	Its ben awhile. Everyone sets it once, then forgets about it ;)

> (Shadow is a very nice app though. It's not absolutely perfect for my 
> use, but the ToDo linking is done nicely enough that I can integrate 
> it with my existing ways of working. Now, if you can just get the 
> child-parent date sort thing the way I like it... ;-) )

	hehe. So many things to do and so little time :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pg@d...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:26pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

> 	Your'e using OS4.x then. Does it have more sorting options 
than
> the old ToDo apps in 3.x? IF it changes things a little, it could 
confuse
> shadow..

ToDo looks the same in OS4.0 as it did in all the others; same 
sorting options.

I'll try to get the error to happen again. Maybe it stopped because I 
set something up in my Custom list which inadvertently fixed it.

I'll let you know if I find anything.

Regards, PatG

From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:31pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 261

1)  I am sooooooo extraordinarily thankful for the
Desktop version!  I want to definitely register and
pay the $!  Reading everybody's techno-freak-posts
made me think I was in over my head, at first ... but
the more I read and played, the more all the language
started to sink in.  

2)  I got a little worried this morning when I
couldn't get my deskpalm to start by clicking on the
shortcut . . . (after playing around for hours with
all my outlines last night on the 1523 beta).  But, I
rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate that, BTW, I
can't help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work
in the first place?")

3) Last night, it would not open a few files because
of the foreign character problem, but this morning I
went into the folder of xml and found out it did not
like the white spaces I had in the name of some of the
outlines' names.  When I used the HH to rename the
files without the white spaces, and rebooted, (again!)
it fixed the problem!  I feel pretty smart!

4) It did take me a little time to figure out how to
use the HH menu for each of my outlines (I have about
40 of them), go to "list-then, preferences", and check
"synch" to get my outlines out of the Shadow folder
and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I realized that
was the way to do it, I just opened the outlines on
the Shadow DT by clicking on them in the explorer
window (which felt dangerous because I could have
theoretically gotten my outlines all clobbered.)

5) My ONLY problem is that now I am spending lots more
time planning all my work instead of doing it! (Can
you fix that bug?!LOL) It's a lot more fun, sometimes,
than some of the nitty gritty daily routines of a
first grade teacher.  OTOH when I do get around to
doing the stuff--- it will be very efficiently and
terrifically integrated!

6) I have the feeling that Shadow will change my life.
 I am not kidding about this . . . I am beginning to
work out linked outlines for so many areas of my life,
from shining my sink-to planning a science unit about
Honeybees for first graders.  Instead of experiencing 
that overwhemed and "disconnected" anxiety feeling (
especially since Sept 11) --- where I am always
asking, "What am I doing with my life?"---  When I
forget, temporarily, I can get back on track when I
see (on a little screen in front of me) and remember
how everything that I do is purposeful, after all.

7) Again, my enormous appreciation for all that you
are doing.

=====
Peggy_darling@y..."Sorrow shared is halved and joy shared is doubled."             Native American Saying

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 261

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Peggy Darling wrote:

> 1)  I am sooooooo extraordinarily thankful for the Desktop version!  
> I want to definitely register and pay the $!  Reading everybody's
> techno-freak-posts made me think I was in over my head, at first ...
> but the more I read and played, the more all the language started to
> sink in.

	If you are confused by anything.. let me know! Confusion means I
made somethign too difficult!

> 2)  I got a little worried this morning when I couldn't get my
> deskpalm to start by clicking on the shortcut . . . (after playing
> around for hours with all my outlines last night on the 1523 beta).  
> But, I rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate that, BTW, I can't
> help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work in the first place?")

	*shrug*. "Windows" ;)

> 3) Last night, it would not open a few files because of the foreign
> character problem, but this morning I went into the folder of xml and
> found out it did not like the white spaces I had in the name of some
> of the outlines' names.  When I used the HH to rename the files
> without the white spaces, and rebooted, (again!) it fixed the problem!  
> I feel pretty smart!

	Exploring is good :)  But you say filenames with spaces sometimes
wouldn't load into the desktop app? I'll have to try.. they should work
okay..

> 4) It did take me a little time to figure out how to use the HH menu
> for each of my outlines (I have about 40 of them), go to "list-then,
> preferences", and check "synch" to get my outlines out of the Shadow
> folder and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I realized that was the
> way to do it, I just opened the outlines on the Shadow DT by clicking
> on them in the explorer window (which felt dangerous because I could
> have theoretically gotten my outlines all clobbered.)

	Clicking on them in explorer? What do you mean exactly? (I'm
picking on wording, since I need to know what your'e when I write the
manual ;)

	The manual will explain that you need to activate the sync flag
for each list. I could reverse the flag to be a "no sync" so by default
everythign syncs.. but I prefer to wait awhile and find out what peopel
think first, and get initial feedback from the world, etc.

> 5) My ONLY problem is that now I am spending lots more time planning
> all my work instead of doing it! (Can you fix that bug?!LOL) It's a
> lot more fun, sometimes, than some of the nitty gritty daily routines
> of a first grade teacher.  OTOH when I do get around to doing the
> stuff--- it will be very efficiently and terrifically integrated!

	I'm always amazed.. you do so manuy things every day. If you write
them down into an outline, to try and organize, refine, plan, you find out
just how much you do every day. I'll lay down a workplan for some project
that I've been working on for awhile, and realize theres 30 items
left.. if you ticked them off in your head, sure, there they are. But if
someone had asked you, you'd have said a dozen things were left, since you
just didn't think of it that way :)

> 6) I have the feeling that Shadow will change my life.
>  I am not kidding about this . . . I am beginning to work out linked
> outlines for so many areas of my life, from shining my sink-to
> planning a science unit about Honeybees for first graders.  Instead of
> experiencing that overwhemed and "disconnected" anxiety feeling (
> especially since Sept 11) --- where I am always asking, "What am I
> doing with my life?"--- When I forget, temporarily, I can get back on
> track when I see (on a little screen in front of me) and remember how
> everything that I do is purposeful, after all.

	I hope it helps you out! :)  The only problem I find is keeping
disciplined enough to keep everythign in the PDA. If you keep everythign
in, it will help. If you start to end up with a little pileof scraps of
paper, you better enter them in, or else you'll end up with two sets of
lists and go insane ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: samir.kasme@s...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:27pm
Subject: "Open list" button?

Hi

I just thought about a feature that would be just great (I don't 
think it has been mentioned here yet):

How about another way of quickly opening a list by finding a keyword 
in the title, example: 

- I launch ShadowPlan (with a hardware button of course)
- I get the list view of the last list I was in, or (seldomly) the 
file selection screen. In order to go to a particular list as quickly 
as possible, I can:

1: Go back to list selection screen, cycle through the categories, 
and select the list I'm interested in. Very unefficient.
2: Push the "Recent" button or the hardware button. This is very 
nice, but only gives me the last accessed 10 lists, in an order that 
I haven't been able yet to figure out ;-)
When you often change from one list to another, this recent files 
list gets too short. Which leaves me with the first, unefficient 
way...

If I know exactly the name of the list that I want (which I usually 
do), wouldn't it be so much faster to push an "open list" or "find 
list" button, and to write in the first letters of the title. 
I can't use the available find features for that: the Shadow find 
only looks wihtin a particular list, and the global Find (big 
disappointment) does not find words in a list's title..

Would be great in the enhanced (expert) button bar!...

Cheers
Samir

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:45pm
Subject: Re: "Open list" button?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 samir.kasme@s... wrote:

> How about another way of quickly opening a list by finding a keyword 
> in the title, example: 

	Could do this. Or keep a table of contents file with links to
other files, and then use built in search to do it :) (But this is
clumbsy.. few peopel make themselves a TOC file, since its a lot of work).

	Good idea.

> If I know exactly the name of the list that I want (which I usually 
> do), wouldn't it be so much faster to push an "open list" or "find 
> list" button, and to write in the first letters of the title. 
> I can't use the available find features for that: the Shadow find 
> only looks wihtin a particular list, and the global Find (big 
> disappointment) does not find words in a list's title..

	Hmm, good point. I could try and think of a way of supporting
search to filename. Would that be sufficient?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

I gotta say I love this idea! I wouldn't want it permanent because it 
would be in the way when just doing daily maintenance on lists, such 
as viewing and checking off items.

But, for defining a new project, it'd rock! I can just see using it 
for brainstorming sessions...especially the next and child buttons.

Is it really all that much work? (Attempts to justify asking you to 
put this in).



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:
> 
> > What about, if three line mini-entry window :
> 
> 	Oh deer. You're a freak ;)
> 
> 	I didn't think of having a .. staying mini window. In that 
case,
> I'd almost skip having a mini window entirely.. just have a 
permanent text
> field at the bottom of the screen. (shorten the outline display). 
Have
> little teeny icon buttons around it, and left-right next/prev panel
> buttons to change the mini editor view.
> 
> 	I don't think the palm screen is well suited to that.. the 
Clie
> maybe, and maybe Handera (if it were taller rather than wider) .. 
where
> you have space for stuff. But shortening the outline display, for 
more
> edit space onscreen...
> 
> 	Is that what you want?
> 
> 	Pretty darned neat idea though, but a lot of work.
> 
> 	Do you need to enter dates while seeing the outline onscreen? 
Or
> isn't a Detail button enough, which just jumps you to the normal 
detail
> window?
> 
> 	Hmm..
> 
> 	I really admire the idea :)
> 
> 		jeff
> > 
> > Six buttons :
> > 
> > [Confirm] Would "send" the text but keep the  open for ongoing 
entry (to 
> > dismiss : tap outside mini-entry), and the entered taxt would 
appear just 
> > above the miniwindow (one item scroll in main screen)
> > 
> > [Cancel} Clears current entry  but keep the  open for ongoing 
entry
> > and (maybe on the left side) :
> > 
> > [Date] : would call the date part of detail dialog (in a three 
lines mini 
> > window) (while in date, confirm would bring you back to current 
text entry)
> > (a second tap on [Date] would open the full screen Detail editor)
> > 
> > [Note] : would "send" the entry for item note (a second tap on 
[Note] would 
> > open the full screen Note editor)
> > 
> > and [Next]  and [Child} :
> > [Next]  could confirm and clear for a new sibbling with one tap, 
a new 
> > upper level item with two taps
> > [Child}  could confirm and clear for  a new child entry
> > 
> > 
> > So the mini-windows could look like : 
> > 
> > 
> > Item entry : 
> > 
> > [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> > [Note]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> > [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dates entry : 
> > 
> > [Date]  Target...........      Auto #        [Confirm]
> > [Note]  Start.............      A-B-C         [Cancel}
> > [Next]  Finish.................................  [Child}
> > 
> > 
> > Note entry :
> > 
> > [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> > [Title]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> > [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> > 
> > 
> > That way : 
> > 
> > That would allow almost pure inline editing (ongoing, an eye on 
context)
> > Miniwindow could be in Shadow options (recalled at first 
character entry, 
> > when dismissed, )
> > 
> > 
> > Just for thoughts,
> > 
> > 
> > Jacques
> > 
> > Jacques Turbé
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 11:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:

> I gotta say I love this idea! I wouldn't want it permanent because it 
> would be in the way when just doing daily maintenance on lists, such 
> as viewing and checking off items.
> 
> But, for defining a new project, it'd rock! I can just see using it 
> for brainstorming sessions...especially the next and child buttons.
> 
> Is it really all that much work? (Attempts to justify asking you to 
> put this in).

	Consider.. you already have buttons to make new and children, and
shortcuts for them. If you just start typing/writing, it starts a new
item (mini editor or not). So speed of entry is already there :) For mini
editor.. just start writing. Hit check. Start writing. Hit check. You're
knocking them in.

	The proposal below is neat, since it offers the idea of other mini
editor panels, like dates and such. But if you're going to spend the time
changing panels, why not just use Details, where its all there nice and
quick. You'd save time entering in Details, since you wouldn't have to
save panels.

	Making the mini editor bigger seems to be against the whole point
of it, which is to edit while still seeing the outline, no?

	Or if the mini ed should be a condensed ed instead.. Two lines for
text like it is now, with one line underneath for the 3 dates (no
titles.. just start date -- finish date -- target date on one line). Thats
possible. But it still costs you another line of visibility..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 11:22pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Hmm...got me there...I hadn't thought of exactly how simple it is to 
enter new items with the mini-editor.

Of course, know you got me thinking, which may not be good <LOL>.

What about adding some buttons to the details dialog? I really don't 
care much about seeing the list as I enter items. But, it'd be great 
to have New Sibling, New Child, New Parent buttons in the existing 
details dialog. The New Parent would create an item one level up from 
the current item being entered, the other two are pretty self 
explanatory. 

I'd be more apt to use that then the mini-edit window...though it's 
cool in it's own right.

FWIW, I am not using dates or priorities for hardly anything since 
switching to the Getting Things Done method. The only time I use a 
date is if something absolutely is time constrained...

OK...so now to the bad part of getting me thinking here...how about 
removing a line or two from the details dialog and moving some of the 
linking buttons there?

It'd be great to have a todo link checkbox and category drop down 
right in the details box...also doing this for file and datebook 
linking would make sense as these are one to one links.

I'd keep the seperate dialog for address/memo linking as it is a one 
to many type link.

While I am at it...I think changing the button style in the details 
dialog to the new version would be cool, and could add some space to 
implement the ideas above. Hmmm, in fact you could even add my 
Next/Child/Parent buttons onto it. I might even suggest removing the 
auto # preference from the details dialog as the only time *I* have 
used it is per list, not per parent/child/sibling.

OK, one last thing. I love the new button bar. Might be nice though 
to change the X for exit, do a D for done...that X to me keeps 
tricking me into thinking it's a delete button (damn Outlook).

Aren't you sorry for responding so quick now ;-)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:
> 
> 	Consider.. you already have buttons to make new and children, 
and
> shortcuts for them. If you just start typing/writing, it starts a 
new
> item (mini editor or not). So speed of entry is already there :) 
For mini
> editor.. just start writing. Hit check. Start writing. Hit check. 
You're
> knocking them in.
> 
> 	The proposal below is neat, since it offers the idea of other 
mini
> editor panels, like dates and such. But if you're going to spend 
the time
> changing panels, why not just use Details, where its all there nice 
and
> quick. You'd save time entering in Details, since you wouldn't have 
to
> save panels.
> 
> 	Making the mini editor bigger seems to be against the whole 
point
> of it, which is to edit while still seeing the outline, no?
> 
> 	Or if the mini ed should be a condensed ed instead.. Two 
lines for
> text like it is now, with one line underneath for the 3 dates (no
> titles.. just start date -- finish date -- target date on one 
line). Thats
> possible. But it still costs you another line of visibility..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:28am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Le 20 Oct 2001, à 13:08, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> 	I didn't think of having a .. staying mini window. In that case,
> I'd almost skip having a mini window entirely.. just have a 
permanent
> text field at the bottom of the screen. (shorten the outline 
display). 

Well the mini-editor would be dismissed  (back to button bar) while,
reading, hilighting, filtering, linking, expanding ....

Have
> little teeny icon buttons around it, and left-right next/prev panel
> buttons to change the mini editor view.

That's it !
> 
> 	I don't think the palm screen is well suited to that.. 

I would have thought so till you build your superb minieditor for new
items
 ;-)

Awesome !

But shortening the outline display, for more
> edit space onscreen...
> 	Is that what you want?
Well its altogether nice and usefull for organizing while wtiting 
short
notes > > 	Pretty darned neat idea though, but a lot of work.

Sure ;-) 
Your fault : without your .gif and 1.5.25 proto, I would never have 
had
that idea !

> 	Do you need to enter dates while seeing the outline onscreen? 

Not really : just for UI congruence sake : I need the two others : 
items
and notes for non stop entry, with an eye on surrounding context  
(and
eventually fast jump to a better place to write a coming idea.

Or
> isn't a Detail button enough, which just jumps you to the normal 
detail
> window?

BTW, please (very often asked), please, Jeff, please do put first 
words of
current item as note title in note window !!!! It *really* would help
(when writing a longer than one screen note, it's easy to forget 
where you
are, and mix ideas (because no seeing main view), and then have to 
cut and
paste chunks of text into more appropriate branches notes. Please, 
That
one is very little work, isn'it ?

BTW (2) I was wrong the other day : now that I can play with it, I 
love
the button bar ;-) 

> > 	Hmm.. 
> > 	I really admire the idea :)

Hope you won't bury it under flowers ;-))
No matter the how, keep the purpose : Fast non stop entry, with an 
eye on the surrounding !
(and avoiding the dull backoffice of Palm text windows (detail and 
note)

;-)



Thanks,

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 11:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:

> Hmm...got me there...I hadn't thought of exactly how simple it is to 
> enter new items with the mini-editor.

	muahuahua :)

> Of course, know you got me thinking, which may not be good <LOL>.

	hehe. Thinking is bad. Stop immediately. Find a nearby bottle of
Glenmarangie Scotch (Sherry Cask) (thats my fix ;) immediately.

> What about adding some buttons to the details dialog? I really don't 
> care much about seeing the list as I enter items. But, it'd be great 
> to have New Sibling, New Child, New Parent buttons in the existing 
> details dialog. The New Parent would create an item one level up from 
> the current item being entered, the other two are pretty self 
> explanatory. 

	I have thought about adding the New buttons to the Detail
window. Hitting New on the Detail window is the same as hitting OK and New
in a row.. you just don't get to see what just happened. Not too hard to
build. Just replace OK and Cancel buttons with graphical OK/Cancel buttons
(like the ones in the mini editor), and then I'd have room to add the 3
new graphical buttons. Tempting. (of course, based on your graphical
button bar pref)

> I'd be more apt to use that then the mini-edit window...though it's 
> cool in it's own right.

	You create that much text?

> FWIW, I am not using dates or priorities for hardly anything since 
> switching to the Getting Things Done method. The only time I use a 
> date is if something absolutely is time constrained...

	Do you use other apps (like a todo app?) to do dates, or did you
find a way to just note use dates?

> OK...so now to the bad part of getting me thinking here...how about 
> removing a line or two from the details dialog and moving some of the 
> linking buttons there?

	Can't fit; the Link Manager window is necessary I think.. theres
just too many options, and separating some of them away just makes it more
confusing.

> It'd be great to have a todo link checkbox and category drop down 
> right in the details box...also doing this for file and datebook 
> linking would make sense as these are one to one links.

	I thought about [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking; tap on the
[T] box and it pops up a list of todo categories, pick one, and the link
gets made. *shrug* You could of course just use the [T] optional todo link
column ;)

> While I am at it...I think changing the button style in the details 
> dialog to the new version would be cool, and could add some space to 
> implement the ideas above. Hmmm, in fact you could even add my 
> Next/Child/Parent buttons onto it. I might even suggest removing the 
> auto # preference from the details dialog as the only time *I* have 
> used it is per list, not per parent/child/sibling.

	If you go deeper than 3 items, you need them there.

	I may add graphical buttons to a bunch of windows, but I want to
see how the existing ones are received, and take a breather. It'd take
awhile to draw up all the little icons and build the code to hide/show the
appropriate sets of buttons right. (ie: I'm thinking of making a
customizable button system, where you can attach buttons to the left or
right or bottom of various windows. We'll see ;)

> OK, one last thing. I love the new button bar. Might be nice though 
> to change the X for exit, do a D for done...that X to me keeps 
> tricking me into thinking it's a delete button (damn Outlook).

	heh. Fix outlook ;)

	(X means done in Windows; see the top right of every window. As
such, X shoudl never be used for anythign else in windows..)

> Aren't you sorry for responding so quick now ;-)

	Yeah :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:16am
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Absolut Mandarin for me :-)

Cool...so we're on the same page there...and yes, based on your bar 
preference would only make sense...glad that this seems simple ;-)

At current I am not creating that much text...but as I am slowly 
being dragged into more and more meetings, I could see myself 
creating that many items. Also, as I have these "moments of thinking" 
I can tend to fly and throw stuff into Shadow quickly. Realize also I 
have written code before myself...so sometimes I like putting things 
in just because they'd be really cool, rather than I'd use them.

I use DateBk4 and a series of views to define what context I am in. 
For example if I tell DateBk4 I am at my desk, it will show me items 
that can be done at a phone, computer, or at my office desk. The idea 
of Getting Things Done is to keep track of everything and do things 
by context rather than by date. Sure, there are a few things that are 
date constrained, so I will generally link those to a Floating event 
in DateBk4. I know this way of keeping track of things sounds odd, 
but my productivity has really picked up since starting to use it's 
ideas.

That is a good idea...why have a seperate checkbox, to break an 
existing link just choose none, and then Shadow could pop up a dialog 
prompting to break or delete entirely. I do use the the todo link 
column...just trying to think of a simple way to link and set the 
category at the same time. The GTD system requires me to set 
different categories for each item depending on where I can do it. 
For example one item may be set to do at a computer, another at a 
phone, and still another could be done anywhere (such as creating a 
new DB on my Palm).

More buttons would be cool... but I understand wanting to wait. I do 
hope though that the buttons we spoke of above for the details 
dialog. Another two buttons for the details dialog could be scroll 
buttons so you could scroll through your list right from the details 
dialog...just an idea (reference former coder above <LOL>).

I agree...thus the damming out Outlook.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	hehe. Thinking is bad. Stop immediately. Find a nearby bottle 
of
> Glenmarangie Scotch (Sherry Cask) (thats my fix ;) immediately.
> 
> 	I have thought about adding the New buttons to the Detail
> window. Hitting New on the Detail window is the same as hitting OK 
and New
> in a row.. you just don't get to see what just happened. Not too 
hard to
> build. Just replace OK and Cancel buttons with graphical OK/Cancel 
buttons
> (like the ones in the mini editor), and then I'd have room to add 
the 3
> new graphical buttons. Tempting. (of course, based on your graphical
> button bar pref)
> 
> 	You create that much text?
> 
> 	Do you use other apps (like a todo app?) to do dates, or did 
you
> find a way to just note use dates?
> 

> 
> 	I thought about [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking; tap on 
the
> [T] box and it pops up a list of todo categories, pick one, and the 
link
> gets made. *shrug* You could of course just use the [T] optional 
todo link
> column ;)
> 
> 	I may add graphical buttons to a bunch of windows, but I want 
to
> see how the existing ones are received, and take a breather. It'd 
take
> awhile to draw up all the little icons and build the code to 
hide/show the
> appropriate sets of buttons right. (ie: I'm thinking of making a
> customizable button system, where you can attach buttons to the 
left or
> right or bottom of various windows. We'll see ;)
> 	heh. Fix outlook ;)
> 
> 	(X means done in Windows; see the top right of every window. 
As
> such, X shoudl never be used for anythign else in windows..)
> 
> > Aren't you sorry for responding so quick now ;-)
> 
> 	Yeah :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> BTW, please (very often asked), please, Jeff, please do put first 
> words of
> current item as note title in note window !!!! It *really* would help
> (when writing a longer than one screen note, it's easy to forget 
> where you

	Done.

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:39am
Subject: GtD

btw..

	Joe used to keep me up on whats going on the GtD camp. Is Shadow
serving GtD well or have I gone off the mark somewhere?

	Wheres Joe!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: BeccaE  <beccaE@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:45am
Subject: Re: GtD

At 08:39 PM 10/20/01 -0400, you wrote:

>         btw..
>
>         Joe used to keep me up on whats going on the GtD camp. Is Shadow
>serving GtD well or have I gone off the mark somewhere?
>
>         Wheres Joe!
>
>                 jeff

Joe was getting married sometime in Oct, can't remember the date now, so I 
suspect he has been busy GTD :).

Becca

From: Sue Thomas  <s.c-thomas@h...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 2:12am
Subject: RE: GtD

On that point, let me add that I used Shadow to keep track of items for
my wedding (which was in August).

I'd won Shadow during a draw with the CanadaPUG after Jeff had done a
presentation. I'd been seriously considering getting this app after
reading about it on the WOYP (Writing on Your Palm)group. It was quite
nice to win a copy of the app. My test was to try out tracking the
wedding planning and it worked well. I was impressed. It was wonderful
to mark my parent and children complete. Mind you though, presently, I'm
in a slump and not doing any Shadow related stuff at all. But, the
introduction of the desktop has got me excited. 

And thinking about what I can do next! Maybe outlining one of my short
stories.

Kudos to Jeff.

Sue



>Joe was getting married sometime in Oct, can't remember the 
>date now, so I 
>suspect he has been busy GTD :).
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 2:20am
Subject: RE: GtD

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Sue Thomas wrote:

> On that point, let me add that I used Shadow to keep track of items for
> my wedding (which was in August).

	Congratulations!!

> I'd won Shadow during a draw with the CanadaPUG after Jeff had done a
> presentation. I'd been seriously considering getting this app after
> reading about it on the WOYP (Writing on Your Palm)group. It was quite
> nice to win a copy of the app. My test was to try out tracking the

	I missed the last couple PUG's, too.. too busy working on the
desktop ;)

> to mark my parent and children complete. Mind you though, presently, I'm
> in a slump and not doing any Shadow related stuff at all. But, the
> introduction of the desktop has got me excited. 

	New list; "Things to do with Shadow" ;)

	We need to get that thread going again where people say what they
use Shadow for; from listing and allocating chores, to shopping lists, to
packing lists, to long and short term todos, to book and CD lists, to
projects at work, rumours, meeting notes, essays, notes while flying
across the country.. people do it all :)

> And thinking about what I can do next! Maybe outlining one of my short
> stories.

	Perfect! :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:08am
Subject: RE: "Open list" button?

>	Could do this. Or keep a table of contents file with links to
>other files, and then use built in search to do it :) (But this is
>clumbsy.. few peopel make themselves a TOC file, since its a lot of work).

I would like to throw out this idea...I think it would be nice to have a
preference that has shadow always open to a certain list - like the TOC.  I
have a TOC with a lot of links and I like to work from it to switch outlines
during various planning activities.  I never seem to be in the outline I
need when shadow opens, but if it always opened to the TOC outline then I
could jump right to the outline I need every time.  Just a thought...

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:48am
Subject: RE: "Open list" button?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 drumgirl313@y... wrote:

> I would like to throw out this idea...I think it would be nice to have a
> preference that has shadow always open to a certain list - like the TOC.  I
> have a TOC with a lot of links and I like to work from it to switch outlines
> during various planning activities.  I never seem to be in the outline I
> need when shadow opens, but if it always opened to the TOC outline then I
> could jump right to the outline I need every time.  Just a thought...

	I could perhaps make a pref for a list to load on open, but could
even make it easier.. if a file named TOC exists, always open it. *shrug*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

(sorry, I lost the thread)

Le 20 Oct 2001, à 20:36, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> > Jeff, please do put first 
> > words of
> > current item as note title in note window !!!! 

> 	Done.

Whoopeee !!!
Thanks


Minieditor : a tiny (N)ote button, please
(sorry if already asked and answered)

'cause now, it gets hard to enter a title, and then a note.
[N] could open the usual Note window, if not a mini-note-editor 
;-))


Thanks,




Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:28am
Subject: (N)ote Button

I like the idea of a little (N) button right below the (D) button on the mini editor.

> 
> Minieditor : a tiny (N)ote button, please
> (sorry if already asked and answered)
> 
> 'cause now, it gets hard to enter a title, and then a note.
> [N] could open the usual Note window, if not a mini-note-editor 
> ;-))
>

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:41am
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Jeff:

I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.

Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.

Norman


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > I must say I'm in the camp of those who would prefer "true" 
inline 
> > editing. I think those of us who use it "real-time" (.i.e. notes, 
in 
> > meetings) want the fastest data entry--inline delivers this.  
Those 
> > individuals who use Shadow for planning (generally when more time 
is 
> > available) would prefer the current method.
> 
> 	Have you seen the mini editor (or screenshots thereof) I added
> yesterday?
> 
> > Assuming the inline camp want it for initial fast data entry, can 
> > another input method be created?  My proposal (not sure if it can 
be 
> > done on the Palm)is to be able to import a outline fragment from 
a 
> > memo into a Shadow outline.  Of course, the outline fragment 
would 
> > need to follow existing import rules.  Also, importing a outline 
> > fragment from the clipboard directly into a Shadow outline would 
be 
> > preferable than saving to a file from memopad then importing 
directly 
> > into a Shadow list.
> 
> 	We can already import from memo to a new list. I was thinking 
of
> adding a merge-two-lists option, so as to be most flexible. (It 
would be
> useful for a wider variety of things then). So in theory you could 
import,
> then merge. Would that help?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:44am
Subject: Merging two list

Jeff:

I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.

Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.

Norman

From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:15pm
Subject:

Vocabulary that is confusing for me:

1. Windiff
2. PUG
3. FWIW

Ideas that I vote for too:

1. A Table of Contents Preference to have Shadow
always open up to -TOC;  or another way of quickly
opening a list by finding a keyword  in the title
2.  Inline editing
3.  [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking



Response to your comments:

1.   I got a little worried this morning when I
couldn't get my
> deskpalm to start by clicking on the shortcut . . .
(after playing
> around for hours with all my outlines last night on
the 1523 beta).  
> But, I rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate
that, BTW, I can't
> help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work in
the first place?")

	*shrug*. "Windows" ;)

Yes, probably a Windows problem---but this morning the
same thing happened!  I am annoyed becasue I like to
have my PalmDT open after I log on to enter things as
I go, but it's a pain to get off line and reboot when
my internet speed here on a dirt road in Vermont is
only 33600 bps.  Interestingly, Shadow DT had no
problem starting and is currently open, so I just
started a new outline with the notes of things I am
culling this morning while online.  Very nice!

2.  :)  But you say filenames with spaces sometimes
wouldn't load into the desktop app? I'll have to try..
they should work okay..


Well, perhaps I should mention that the title of my HH
outline with the white spaces was also a bit that I
snipped from a website group and captured onto my
PalmDT memo, which I then cut and pasted into the HH
outline.  


3.  ) It did take me a little time to figure out how
to use the HH menu
> for each of my outlines (I have about 40 of them),
go to "list-then,
> preferences", and check "synch" to get my outlines
out of the Shadow
> folder and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I
realized that was the
> way to do it, I just opened the outlines on the
Shadow DT by clicking
> on them in the explorer window (which felt dangerous
because I could
> have theoretically gotten my outlines all
clobbered.)

	Clicking on them in explorer? What do you mean
exactly? (I'm picking on wording, since I need to know
what your'e when I write the manual ;)

Well, what I did was-I had the Shadow DT open and
clicked the "Open folder" icon which took me to a
window that said "Choose a shadow xml to open" and the
folder that was listed was the "Shadow i60" which had
nothing but last sync files in it at the time.  So I 
clicked the "Up arrow folder" icon to get a
windows-explorer list (maybe some people call this the
"My Computer" list) of folders in my DarlinP folder
and I noticed the "Shadow" folder up above the "Shadow
160" folder.  It was really by chance that I inspected
the contents of it, found the name of the list I
wanted, clicked on it, and voila! It loaded.  Before
this, I had no idea that my outlines were backed up
here...I just trusted that they were magically being
backed up somewhere in case I ever needed them.  (I
believe in magic, so that makes me a great First Grade
Teacher!)


4.)	The manual will explain that you need to activate
the sync flag for each list. I could reverse the flag
to be a "no sync" so by default everythign syncs.. but
I prefer to wait awhile and find out what peopel think
first, and get initial feedback from the world, etc.


I think the "no synch" default would be better for
people like me who had to do a little problem-solving
about it.  


5) I hope it helps you out! :)  The only problem I
find is keeping disciplined enough to keep everythign
in the PDA. If you keep  everythign in, it will help.
If you start to end up with a little pileof scraps of
paper, you better enter them in, or else you'll end up
with two sets of lists and go insane ;)


I have had my Visor for a little more than a year now,
and I am trying to keep more and more information in
my Visor.  This year, I am learning to use my Visor
all the time as I teach--to jot down anecdotal
observations of each student, the Students' quotes
that give me a window on what they are thinking and
that can drive my next teaching points.  Each student
is a Project (both literally and in my Shadow
Outlines)!  This is very valuable at Parent conference
time;  parents love to hear exactly what their child
did or said.  Also, the kids are very curious about my
Visor, which they used to think was my Game-Boy.  I
had a substitute last week and she said the children
kept telling her she had to use the Big Clock on her
Visor so she would know when to tell them that
Sustained Silent Reading was over.  She had no idea of
what a Visor even was.  Thankfully, a parent volunteer
was able to calm the children down and explain that
the substitute would be able to use the clock on the
wall to know what time to stop SSR.









=====
Peggy_darling@y..."Sorrow shared is halved and joy shared is doubled."             Native American Saying

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: RE: "Open list" button?

>	I could perhaps make a pref for a list to load on open, but could
>even make it easier.. if a file named TOC exists, always open it. *shrug*

That sounds cool!

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:36pm
Subject: RE: (unknown)

>Vocabulary that is confusing for me:
>
>1. Windiff

A program, I think

>2. PUG

My dog is a pug breed, but in this forum it stands for Palm User Group

>3. FWIW

For What It's Worth

>did or said.  Also, the kids are very curious about my
>Visor, which they used to think was my Game-Boy.  I

I have the opposite scenario.  I am the cool substitute teacher who carries
a palm.  They think their regular teacher needs to 'get with the program."
Also, I am curious as to how you are using shadow in the classroom - would
you care to give some more details about your setup?  Thanks!

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> Minieditor : a tiny (N)ote button, please
> (sorry if already asked and answered)
> 
> 'cause now, it gets hard to enter a title, and then a note.
> [N] could open the usual Note window, if not a mini-note-editor 
> ;-))

	Space is reserved for it, I just need to define it. IF you enter
text, and then hit N and the big note editor comes up, it must then return
to the mini editor to determine if you will save or not the item.

	I've thought about maybe if you hit the Note button in the mini
editor, you go to the note screen, and then when you hit Done it returns
to the big Detail screen (easier to build ;).

	I've also thought of a [N] toggle; you go to the mini editor (ME),
and then when you hit N it reverses, and the title text goes away and the
note text appears. When you hit [N] again, it untoggles and the title text
returns. Lets you edit both in place, and when you're done, just hit the
OK check and poof, done.

	But that might confuse people.. you hit N and your text goes away!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.
> 
> Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
> solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
> another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.

	My merge idea was to happen at the file selection screen; just
pick a list, then hit Merge, and pick another list, and then they
join.. first at the top, second at the bottom. Then you could open it, and
use cut/move or whatever to push the items around.

	Inserting at somepoint in the list.. hmm. Perhaps if I put a size
limit on merges it could be possible. A little palm trying to load 2 1MB
files would be rough ;)

	Hmm..

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:52pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Peggy Darling wrote:

> 1. Windiff

	Geek speak; a "diff" util is one that emits the differences
between two files. He's just being careful and recording differences,
rather than begin and end files.

> 2. PUG

	Palm User Group.

> 3. FWIW

	For What Its Worth.

> Ideas that I vote for too:
> 
> 1. A Table of Contents Preference to have Shadow
> always open up to -TOC;  or another way of quickly
> opening a list by finding a keyword  in the title

	How about automatic opening of a file named TOC if
available. (Save writing a pref ;)

> 2.  Inline editing

	Have you seen the mini editor? It seems a good compromise and
still maintains a lot of functionality.

> 3.  [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking

	I'll see what I can do..

		jeff

> 
> Response to your comments:
> 
> 1.   I got a little worried this morning when I
> couldn't get my
> > deskpalm to start by clicking on the shortcut . . .
> (after playing
> > around for hours with all my outlines last night on
> the 1523 beta).  
> > But, I rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate
> that, BTW, I can't
> > help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work in
> the first place?")
> 
> 	*shrug*. "Windows" ;)
> 
> Yes, probably a Windows problem---but this morning the
> same thing happened!  I am annoyed becasue I like to
> have my PalmDT open after I log on to enter things as
> I go, but it's a pain to get off line and reboot when
> my internet speed here on a dirt road in Vermont is
> only 33600 bps.  Interestingly, Shadow DT had no
> problem starting and is currently open, so I just
> started a new outline with the notes of things I am
> culling this morning while online.  Very nice!
> 
> 2.  :)  But you say filenames with spaces sometimes
> wouldn't load into the desktop app? I'll have to try..
> they should work okay..
> 
> 
> Well, perhaps I should mention that the title of my HH
> outline with the white spaces was also a bit that I
> snipped from a website group and captured onto my
> PalmDT memo, which I then cut and pasted into the HH
> outline.  
> 
> 
> 3.  ) It did take me a little time to figure out how
> to use the HH menu
> > for each of my outlines (I have about 40 of them),
> go to "list-then,
> > preferences", and check "synch" to get my outlines
> out of the Shadow
> > folder and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I
> realized that was the
> > way to do it, I just opened the outlines on the
> Shadow DT by clicking
> > on them in the explorer window (which felt dangerous
> because I could
> > have theoretically gotten my outlines all
> clobbered.)
> 
> 	Clicking on them in explorer? What do you mean
> exactly? (I'm picking on wording, since I need to know
> what your'e when I write the manual ;)
> 
> Well, what I did was-I had the Shadow DT open and
> clicked the "Open folder" icon which took me to a
> window that said "Choose a shadow xml to open" and the
> folder that was listed was the "Shadow i60" which had
> nothing but last sync files in it at the time.  So I 
> clicked the "Up arrow folder" icon to get a
> windows-explorer list (maybe some people call this the
> "My Computer" list) of folders in my DarlinP folder
> and I noticed the "Shadow" folder up above the "Shadow
> 160" folder.  It was really by chance that I inspected
> the contents of it, found the name of the list I
> wanted, clicked on it, and voila! It loaded.  Before
> this, I had no idea that my outlines were backed up
> here...I just trusted that they were magically being
> backed up somewhere in case I ever needed them.  (I
> believe in magic, so that makes me a great First Grade
> Teacher!)
> 
> 
> 4.)	The manual will explain that you need to activate
> the sync flag for each list. I could reverse the flag
> to be a "no sync" so by default everythign syncs.. but
> I prefer to wait awhile and find out what peopel think
> first, and get initial feedback from the world, etc.
> 
> 
> I think the "no synch" default would be better for
> people like me who had to do a little problem-solving
> about it.  
> 
> 
> 5) I hope it helps you out! :)  The only problem I
> find is keeping disciplined enough to keep everythign
> in the PDA. If you keep  everythign in, it will help.
> If you start to end up with a little pileof scraps of
> paper, you better enter them in, or else you'll end up
> with two sets of lists and go insane ;)
> 
> 
> I have had my Visor for a little more than a year now,
> and I am trying to keep more and more information in
> my Visor.  This year, I am learning to use my Visor
> all the time as I teach--to jot down anecdotal
> observations of each student, the Students' quotes
> that give me a window on what they are thinking and
> that can drive my next teaching points.  Each student
> is a Project (both literally and in my Shadow
> Outlines)!  This is very valuable at Parent conference
> time;  parents love to hear exactly what their child
> did or said.  Also, the kids are very curious about my
> Visor, which they used to think was my Game-Boy.  I
> had a substitute last week and she said the children
> kept telling her she had to use the Big Clock on her
> Visor so she would know when to tell them that
> Sustained Silent Reading was over.  She had no idea of
> what a Visor even was.  Thankfully, a parent volunteer
> was able to calm the children down and explain that
> the substitute would be able to use the clock on the
> wall to know what time to stop SSR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Peggy_darling@y..."Sorrow shared is halved and joy shared is doubled."             Native American Saying
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 10:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Le 21 Oct 2001, à 11:44, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> 	Space is reserved for it,

I guessed it !

> 	I've thought about maybe if you hit the Note button in the mini
> editor, you go to the note screen, 

Good...

>and then when you hit Done it returns
> to the big Detail screen

Less good :
I would prefer : "return to outline view" (or return to the Mini Editor in case 
of an inline editing with some kind of "next" feature).

I know it's already like this in Sh, but I never enjoy it:

When you write a bunch in Sh you have to go thru the five step sequence 
for each "paragraph" :

Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to 
Details -> Return to list


I would prefer a four step "circular process" :
Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to list
(if not some three step system for : 
Write item label -> Write note text -> Next !!)

> 	I've also thought of a [N] toggle; you go to the mini editor (ME),
> and then when you hit N it reverses, and the title text goes away and the
> note text appears. When you hit [N] again, it untoggles and the title text
> returns. Lets you edit both in place, and when you're done, just hit the
> OK check and poof, done.

Ouch ;-) 
That would have been my first idea (comes close to the three step 
sequence above) : but from time to time you need full screen for note 
editing, and you don't want to go and change your prefs each time.

So, even if less neat, it is maybe wiser to stick to the current note 
window.....

... and less work ;-)



Jacques Turbé

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 6:05pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

on 10/21/01 9:52 am, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Peggy Darling wrote:
> 
>> 1. Windiff
> 
> Geek speak; a "diff" util is one that emits the differences
> between two files. He's just being careful and recording differences,
> rather than begin and end files.
> 
>> 2. PUG
> 
> Palm User Group.
> 
>> 3. FWIW
> 
> For What Its Worth.
> 
>> Ideas that I vote for too:
>> 
>> 1. A Table of Contents Preference to have Shadow
>> always open up to -TOC;  or another way of quickly
>> opening a list by finding a keyword  in the title
> 
> How about automatic opening of a file named TOC if
> available. (Save writing a pref ;)
> 

What would this do to users of something like McPhling, where they switch
back and forth between programs? Would this mean that every time you go back
to Shadow that you would be in the TOC instead of the last outline you were
using? That seems like a loss of functionality...

If you can differentiate between launching Shadow from the Launcher and
switching to it, then I can see this being useful. Go to the TOC if
launching, go back to where you were if switching.

Just my two cents,
Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Hi Jeff:

I hope you consider my suggestion of merging at some specific point 
in the list.  I believe putting a size restriction on the Palm would 
be fine.  If someone really needs to merge a large amount of data 
they can do it on the desktop.  This feature might also pacify (at 
least temporarily) those wanting inter-list linking if they don't 
mind duplicating data.  What ya think?

Norm



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.
> > 
> > Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
> > solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
> > another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.
> 
> 	My merge idea was to happen at the file selection screen; just
> pick a list, then hit Merge, and pick another list, and then they
> join.. first at the top, second at the bottom. Then you could open 
it, and
> use cut/move or whatever to push the items around.
> 
> 	Inserting at somepoint in the list.. hmm. Perhaps if I put a 
size
> limit on merges it could be possible. A little palm trying to load 
2 1MB
> files would be rough ;)
> 
> 	Hmm..
> 
> 		Jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:21pm
Subject: Desktop Usability/In-Line editing

Jeff:

I apologize if this discussion/suggestion is old, but I have not seen 
it.  Why did you opt for the panel display on the desktop?  The 
current GUI slows me *way* down because it forces you to move the 
mouse too much.  First, I have to select a item then move my mouse 
over to the other panel to make any changes to that item.  Next, I 
have to move my mouse back to the navigation panel, select another 
node and then move back to the edit panel.

Suggestion(s):

1) Here is where I think the mini-window concept (as discuss in other 
threads) would work well.  I would like the items in the navigation 
panel to be editable (like Windows Explorer file browser).

2) Please add some shortcut operations.  For instance, if I have a 
item selected and hit "Tab" it would "indent" the item--"backspace" 
would "outdent" the item.  Of course, others (.eg drag&drop) could be 
added later.

Norman

From: samir.kasme@s...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:44pm
Subject: Re: "Open list" button?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 samir.kasme@s... wrote:
> 
> > How about another way of quickly opening a list by finding a 
keyword 
> > in the title, example: 
> 
> 	Could do this. Or keep a table of contents file with links to
> other files, and then use built in search to do it :) (But this is
> clumbsy.. few peopel make themselves a TOC file, since its a lot of 
work).
> 
> 	Good idea.
> 
> > If I know exactly the name of the list that I want (which I 
usually 
> > do), wouldn't it be so much faster to push an "open list" 
or "find 
> > list" button, and to write in the first letters of the title. 
> > I can't use the available find features for that: the Shadow find 
> > only looks wihtin a particular list, and the global Find (big 
> > disappointment) does not find words in a list's title..
> 
> 	Hmm, good point. I could try and think of a way of supporting
> search to filename. Would that be sufficient?

Well, a global find supporting Shadow list titles would be good, 
although it would probably match several files when using common 
keywords. You'd have then slightly more moves than if you could write 
in the title, with the file opening directly as a result:

Tap Find button, Write keyword, (Get list of results), Select result 
and tap, Open file

as opposed to:

Tap "open list button", Write first letters of title, Open file

The other idea of opening a TOC file sounds cool... except that I 
don't have a TOC file, it would be a lot of work to maintain as you 
say. I suppose it could work for people with fewer, long files, but 
if you have many short files like me, then the TOC takes much more 
than one screen, and you'd have to scroll down and read through all 
your filenames, which, again, makes the process longer.

Thanks for considering all these wishes, and for your professionalism 
when bringing this all together

Samir

From: keho@c...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 10:41pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

Still having the ToDo sort problem, but I have come up with a half 
decent workaround.  Datebk4 has an option called "Syncsort" which, 
when enabled, will resort the DateBook and ToDo databases after 
performing a hotsync operation.  This will at least correct the 
sorting problem whenever I do a hotsync.  After adding ToDo links in 
Shadow and prior to my next hotsync, however, the ToDo entries will 
still not be sorted properly.

It is interesting that the two of us who reported this problem are 
both using a Palm m505 running OS 4.x.  Specifically, I'm running 
4.01.  Anyone else out there running OS 4.x with Shadow and able to 
link and sort ToDo's properly?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., keho@c... wrote:
> >>Which version of Shadow are you using? 
> 1.5.14
> 
> >>Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> I've disabled all of my hacks.  I've also wiped all apps and data 
> from RAM (still stuff on the SD card and a few things in flash) and 
> just put the Shadow prc and pdb files back.  Still getting the same 
> problem with the ToDo sorting.  Tried to think of anything else 
that 
> would affect sorting and couldn't come up with anything.
> 
> Any other thoughts?
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:
> > 
> > > case).  In the ToDo application, my default sort order 
> is "Category, 
> > > Priority".  When I view my to do's in Datebk4, they are also 
> sorted 
> > > by Category then Priority, as DB4 uses the sort order specified 
> in 
> > > the Palm ToDo application.  
> > 
> > 	Which version of Shadow are you using? Since you can do link
> > categories, you're likely in 1.5.14, and all the Shadows since 
way 
> back
> > (1.3.?) have made sure to use the proper sort ordering. (If not 
> earlier
> > versions). If Shadow didn't sort it correctly, a lot of people 
> would be
> > after me ;)
> > 
> > 	Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:50pm
Subject: Inline editor bug...

Jeff,
Just noticed if you /P (paste) text into the inline editor the screen does not get redrawn correctly.  Everything that was under the /Command box is 'blank'.

From: jacques@t...
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 5:01am
Subject: (Réacheminé) Re: Re: "Open list" button?

Hello Samir,

Le 21 Oct 2001, à 21:44, samir.kasme@s... a écrit:

> Well, a global find supporting Shadow list titles would be good, 

Sure !

What if (when times come) something like Memoleaf does for memos: 
either title, either body (ie : list content). It would keep (say) the last ten 
search entries...

or 

a "ShadowWiki" hack (like PalmWiki for memos): any text (with some 
special code appended)  in any editable field in any app, when tapped 
searches for the same text in a Shadow list, and, if possible opens the list 
with the right item selected ;-)

(when times come) 


But:

With not any new feature, you can already do a *find* with a word you 
know is near the item you are looking for in a Shadow list: Shadow opens 
the list (expanded as needed) at the right place. I use it quite often for big 
lists. It is already faster than tap for the list in Shadow, and then manually 
navigate in the list ! (FinfIgnorehack speeds it).

My 2 ... ;-)



Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 11:53am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> I would prefer : "return to outline view" (or return to the Mini
> Editor in case of an inline editing with some kind of "next" feature).
> 
> I know it's already like this in Sh, but I never enjoy it:
> 
> When you write a bunch in Sh you have to go thru the five step sequence 
> for each "paragraph" :
> 
> Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to 
> Details -> Return to list

	If oyu enter the note window from details, you return to
details. If you enter it from the list, you return to the list. Makes
sense :)

> I would prefer a four step "circular process" :
> Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to list
> (if not some three step system for : 
> Write item label -> Write note text -> Next !!)

	So you always write complete title text, and then a note, and
don't have to go back to details? Hmmrf :) Don't know how to improve this
without irritating a lot of people :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:00pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Ken Scott wrote:

> back and forth between programs? Would this mean that every time you
> go back to Shadow that you would be in the TOC instead of the last
> outline you were using? That seems like a loss of functionality...

	Not a loss; if you used the special TOC file, or pick it to be TOC
or whathaveyou, then its your bidniz ;)

> If you can differentiate between launching Shadow from the Launcher and
> switching to it, then I can see this being useful. Go to the TOC if
> launching, go back to where you were if switching.

	Generally you can't tell the difference. If its a normal launch
its a normal launch. Other kinds are for Finds, or to load specific
databases.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I hope you consider my suggestion of merging at some specific point 
> in the list.  I believe putting a size restriction on the Palm would 
> be fine.  If someone really needs to merge a large amount of data 
> they can do it on the desktop.  This feature might also pacify (at 
> least temporarily) those wanting inter-list linking if they don't 
> mind duplicating data.  What ya think?

	Its been on my todo awhile; but I doubt I'll have a chance to put
it in in the next couple of weeks.. I think my testers need a break and we
need to launch in about a week.. so generally we're in featurelock. Some
bug fixes, working on manuals, etc, are the order of the day for
awhile. Then after desktop and 1.6.0 go out, its time to fix international
characters in the desktop, and then work on the Mac release..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:08pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Usability/In-Line editing

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I apologize if this discussion/suggestion is old, but I have not seen 
> it.  Why did you opt for the panel display on the desktop?  The 
> current GUI slows me *way* down because it forces you to move the 
> mouse too much.  First, I have to select a item then move my mouse 
> over to the other panel to make any changes to that item.  Next, I 
> have to move my mouse back to the navigation panel, select another 
> node and then move back to the edit panel.

	I opted for the current display as a "general editor mode" in the
name of getting it done. I started way back on a fancy schmancy desktop
with all sorts of features. After a couple of months, I tossed it, because
it was taking too long. I needed to get something out and done, so I went
for simple. I can go for elegant later ;) (And in general, I like to get
something working and stable out the door, so I can gather feedback, and
then know what direction everyone wants me to go in).

	That said, I expect to have at least 3 modes.. a project mode, a
text writing mode, and a general mode. Each will be specialized to its
purpose.

> 1) Here is where I think the mini-window concept (as discuss in other 
> threads) would work well.  I would like the items in the navigation 
> panel to be editable (like Windows Explorer file browser).

	Just a matter of time. ie: You coudl wait another couple months to
have the desktop at all, if I kept adding features. Instead, you cna have
it early, make comments, and get something better in a couple months ;)

	I plan on making the tree's text editable in-tree, have checkboxes
and priorities and such in the tree for visibility, and all the usual
bells and whistles.

> 2) Please add some shortcut operations.  For instance, if I have a 
> item selected and hit "Tab" it would "indent" the item--"backspace" 
> would "outdent" the item.  Of course, others (.eg drag&drop) could be 
> added later.

	"Moving" of items will go in in a couple of weeks. The conduit
understands it more or less, but its not well tested and probably will
have some bugs. Once the current stuff is out and everyone is happy, I'll
add drag and drop and push up down left right etc etc :) (Actually, a lot
of it is nearly built.. its just a matter of completing the gUI changes
and testing the conduit to ensure it works).

	Fear not; 1.6.0 and desktop aren't the end; they are the beginning
of a newer subsystem and I expect they'll grow pretty quickly..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> Still having the ToDo sort problem, but I have come up with a half 
> decent workaround.  Datebk4 has an option called "Syncsort" which, 
> when enabled, will resort the DateBook and ToDo databases after 
> performing a hotsync operation.  This will at least correct the 
> sorting problem whenever I do a hotsync.  After adding ToDo links in 
> Shadow and prior to my next hotsync, however, the ToDo entries will 
> still not be sorted properly.
> 
> It is interesting that the two of us who reported this problem are 
> both using a Palm m505 running OS 4.x.  Specifically, I'm running 
> 4.01.  Anyone else out there running OS 4.x with Shadow and able to 
> link and sort ToDo's properly?

	It is curious; other people have mentioned they have no problem on
OS4.x, I think. Certainly, one lad said it only happened to him *once*.
Perhaps a setting in one of the todo apps causes the problem?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:18pm
Subject: Re: Inline editor bug...

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> Just noticed if you /P (paste) text into the inline editor the screen
> does not get redrawn correctly.  Everything that was under the
> /Command box is 'blank'.

	I'll check, though it might well be a palm OS bug. ie: In the mini
editor's case, the OS is doing the cut and aste entirely. I didn't have to
code a thing ;)

	I'll see.. maybe I have to code a fix though ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 6:42pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Le 22 Oct 2001, à 7:53, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> 	If oyu enter the note window from details, you return to
> details.

Ya : that, most of the time I'd prefer to skip.

 If you enter it from the list, you return to the list.
???
With [command]a ?

Not really the same : you have to think (a little::) to change gesture type, 
and which shortcut. Not so convenient for such a highly used feature ;-)

Well maybe i'll become oversatisfied when you'll make available a note 
button for the future customizable button bar ( or the tiny [D] in mini 
editor,.)

 Makes
> sense :)

Sense yes, convenience no 
(Till J Ichbiah , Fitaly creator, says yes for a direct command*letter 
gesture in Fitalystamp, as I already asked him ;-))

> 	So you always write complete title text, and then a note, and
> don't have to go back to details? Hmmrf :) 

Shame on me : yes (most often).
Am I really the only one ??

Don't know how to improve this
> without irritating a lot of people :)

Don't !
But the game is to push his own favorite usage of Shadow, isn't it ?
A button alike [command]a wouldn't irritate anybody, hey ?




Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 3:04pm
Subject: TOC Auto-start and side effects

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Ken Scott wrote:
> 
> > back and forth between programs? Would this mean that every time you
> > go back to Shadow that you would be in the TOC instead of the last
> > outline you were using? That seems like a loss of functionality...
> 
> 	Not a loss; if you used the special TOC file, or pick it to be TOC
> or whathaveyou, then its your bidniz ;)
> 

I'll take this to mean that the behavior would be to restart at the TOC
file each time you come back to Shadow. Please remember to document this
for the people who are using the Automatic Return functionality.

Ken

-- 
><>   Ken Scott   kscott@p...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott   
                                                                      
              This is the day that the Lord has made;             
              I will rejoice and be glad in it!          -- Psalm 118:24

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 3:37pm
Subject: Re: TOC Auto-start and side effects

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Ken Scott wrote:

> I'll take this to mean that the behavior would be to restart at the TOC
> file each time you come back to Shadow. Please remember to document this
> for the people who are using the Automatic Return functionality.

	If people want the assumed TOC feature, I'll build it (or a picked
TOC feature). Its not in yet. If/when I add it, yeah, I'll have to
document it good. I wonder how many people actually read the Reference
Guide :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

> 	Its everyones option. Right now you set it on a list by
> list basis, so you can use the normal Details screen for some
> lists, the mini editor for others. The current question is..
> should there be two prefs? (1) to use mini editor for new, and
> (2) to use mini editor for Details?
> 
> 	Or does everyone who wants mini editor want it all the time?

I'd say: keep it simple. Either you want it, or you don't. I'm 
already happy to have it as a list-by-list instead of a global option.

> 	If you've got time, grab the beta... or check the screenshot:
> 
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/miniedit1.gif
> 
> 	I think its a good compromise, and looks nice too :)

It sure does! :) I just found one little glitch. I use TextPlus to 
speed up my text entry. In case you don't know it, it's a word 
completion application which pops up a selection from a dictionary 
starting with the characters you entered so far.

The problem is that TextPlus's popup menu gets clipped at the borders 
of the mini editor window. In other words: the popup menu doesn't 
appear on top of the mini editor, but inside of it and as it is 
taller than the mini editor, the top gets cut off. I hope there's a 
way around this, or I'll have to give up on the mini editor, as much 
as I like it already.

Roy.

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 9:33pm
Subject: Re: Inline editor bug...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:
> 
> > Just noticed if you /P (paste) text into the inline editor the
> > screen does not get redrawn correctly.  Everything that was
> > under the /Command box is 'blank'.
> 
> 	I'll check, though it might well be a palm OS bug. ie: In
> the mini editor's case, the OS is doing the cut and aste entirely.
> I didn't have to code a thing ;)

The same thing happens to me (Palm m505, OS 4.0).

And a small feature request while I'm at it. :) I'd like to be able 
to tap outside the mini editor to dismiss it. I.e. tapping outside 
the window should be equal to hitting the Cancel button.


Roy.

From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 11:02pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 264

<drumgirl313@y...>
Subject: RE: (unknown)


>did or said.  Also, the kids are very curious about
my
>Visor, which they used to think was my Game-Boy.  I

I have the opposite scenario.  I am the cool
substitute teacher who 
carries
a palm.  They think their regular teacher needs to
'get with the 
program."
Also, I am curious as to how you are using shadow in
the classroom - 
would
you care to give some more details about your setup? 
Thanks!

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************


Hi, Gretchen,

I think being a first grade teacher is pretty tricky,
but I think being a substitute is even trickier!  

I just started using Shadow at the end of August- but
I am using it for:

~Project planning
~planning my units--tickling myself about where all my
activities for each unit is stored; linking the
Standards-objectives in integrated units
~daily student notes about progress, behavior (with
linked to-dos and datebook entries for follow-up
~beaming my notes to other teachers
~taking meeting notes
~trying to organize my next actions ala GTD, David
Allen-style (which I also just started using in
August, and which I am still mind-dumping to get all
the stuff I do out of my head, into the Visor, in
order to free up some creative psychic RAM)
~checklists for routines morning, during specials,
afternoon

Is there something specific you might be looking for?



Hi Jeff, 

automatic opening of a file named TOC if
available. (Save writing a pref ;)

This sounds good, and I started writing a TOC file,
and suddenly it seems more redundent than helpful to
me--


I have not really seen the mini-editor--I'll be
looking for it now!


During our STaff Meeting this afternoon, I
surreptiously beamed Shadow to a co-worker.  Now her
life will be changed too!


~Peggy~




=====
Peggy_darling@y..."Sorrow shared is halved and joy shared is doubled."             Native American Saying

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:33am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> It sure does! :) I just found one little glitch. I use TextPlus to 
> speed up my text entry. In case you don't know it, it's a word 
> completion application which pops up a selection from a dictionary 
> starting with the characters you entered so far.
> 
> The problem is that TextPlus's popup menu gets clipped at the borders 
> of the mini editor window. In other words: the popup menu doesn't 
> appear on top of the mini editor, but inside of it and as it is 
> taller than the mini editor, the top gets cut off. I hope there's a 
> way around this, or I'll have to give up on the mini editor, as much 
> as I like it already.

	Theres not much I can do about this; the mini editor is a
popup. If TP is a Hack that sneaks in there, that it has to do the
trickery, or I have to drop the popup (which would be a pain.. I could do
an awful thing like open a full screen form, but only draw the bottom
piece of it, and try and cleanly redraw after it you're done..) but its
not really appropriate for me to be doing that. (ie: Hundreds of hacks.. I
can try to make it easy for a few.. but how far do you go?) *shrug*

	Someone else mentioned it. I'll have to check this app out.. it
sounds pretty neat ;)

	What if you have a popup box somewhere else on the screen?

	You know what.. its pretty dim for them to draw on the bottom of
the screen, in a way. ie: Palm guidelines suggest all dialogs to open in
the bottom of the screen :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:34am
Subject: Re: Re: Inline editor bug...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> And a small feature request while I'm at it. :) I'd like to be able 
> to tap outside the mini editor to dismiss it. I.e. tapping outside 
> the window should be equal to hitting the Cancel button.

	Ditto. Not sure if I'll have a chance to work that out.

	IS it a cancel or an OK?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: keho@c...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 3:32am
Subject: sorting parents vs. children

I have a Shadow outline called "Projects" that contains all of my 
projects at work as the first level of the outline.  Under each 
project I have tasks to be completed for the project.  The specified 
sort for the list is PRIMARY=TARGET DATE and SECONDARY=PRIORITY.  
This sorts the tasks under each project as desired, however, I would 
like the parent tasks (i.e. the projects) to be sorted 
alphabetically.  Is there a way to accomplish an alpha sort on the 
top level parents, and a date/priority sort on the children?  BTW, I 
keep all the projects in one file rather than having a separate file 
for each proejct because I want to easily see all tasks due across 
all projects.

From: jacques@t...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 11:59am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Le 22 Oct 2001, à 21:33, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:
> >TextPlus's popup menu gets clipped at the borders 
> > of the mini editor window.

(....)

> 	Someone else mentioned it. I'll have to check this app out.. it
> sounds pretty neat ;)

I find TextPlus nice to enter keywords for later "finds" with a steady 
wording / spelling (in all may notes, top of these : Shadow ones)

Nice for usual sentences, formulas too.

Word completion is not a great speed benefit when you use a keyboard 
(FitalyStamp or PPK)


;-)






Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: jacques@t...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Inline editor bug...

Le 22 Oct 2001, à 21:34, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:
>> I'd like to be able 
> > to tap outside the mini editor to dismiss it. I.e. tapping outside 
> > the window should be equal to hitting the Cancel button.

> 	IS it a cancel or an OK?

Would be nice.
A cancel, of course 

;-)



Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 9:50am
Subject: Re: Merging two list

sjpanthe wrote pn: Oct 21, 2001  5:44 am

Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.

Norman

=====

I would also like to be able to select a node and split the list int 
two at that point.

Peter R.

"All Accounting is creative."

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 0:03pm
Subject: Re: sorting parents vs. children

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> I have a Shadow outline called "Projects" that contains all of my 
> projects at work as the first level of the outline.  Under each 
> project I have tasks to be completed for the project.  The specified 
> sort for the list is PRIMARY=TARGET DATE and SECONDARY=PRIORITY.  
> This sorts the tasks under each project as desired, however, I would 
> like the parent tasks (i.e. the projects) to be sorted 
> alphabetically.  Is there a way to accomplish an alpha sort on the 
> top level parents, and a date/priority sort on the children?  BTW, I 

	Off the top of my head, its probably easiest to do two sorts. Do
the target/priority sort first on the whole list, then select an item on
the top level and do a alphabetical sort with "this level only" checked.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 0:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: Inline editor bug...

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> > 	IS it a cancel or an OK?
> 
> Would be nice.
> A cancel, of course 

	I'm betting eithe way we irritate people; tap outside and
cancels.. would be easy to lose data. If you tap outside for OK, coudl
irritate people too :) Hmm. I wonder if an implicit OK is correct? Or
maybe leave it alone for now to see about feedback :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:07pm
Subject: RE: Re: Inline editor bug...

To my mind, it would be a cancel. I expect to click an OK for OK....
 
Cheers
 
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: 23 October 2001 13:14
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Inline editor bug...


On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> >       IS it a cancel or an OK?
> 
> Would be nice.
> A cancel, of course 

      I'm betting eithe way we irritate people; tap outside and
cancels.. would be easy to lose data. If you tap outside for OK, coudl
irritate people too :) Hmm. I wonder if an implicit OK is correct? Or
maybe leave it alone for now to see about feedback :)

            jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Craig Stevens  <nsae1@v...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 3:12pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editing? Answer ASAP.

Roy wrote:
>The problem is that TextPlus's popup menu gets clipped at the borders
of the mini editor window. In other words: the popup menu doesn't
appear on top of the mini editor, but inside of it and as it is
taller than the mini editor, the top gets cut off. I hope there's a
way around this, or I'll have to give up on the mini editor, as much
as I like it already.>

	I have the same problem and I use WordComplete. My problem is that I love
the mini editor an don't want to give it up. It totally makes shadow a real
working solution for me. I do also love WordComplete as it saves me a lot of
time.

Craig P. Stevens
Director
National School of Academic Equitation Inc.
11901-215th Place SE
Snohomish, WA 98296
(360)668-5242
Fax(360)668-7012
mailto:nsae1@v...
http://www.classical-equitation.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 4:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editing? Answer ASAP.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Craig Stevens wrote:

> 	I have the same problem and I use WordComplete. My problem is that I love
> the mini editor an don't want to give it up. It totally makes shadow a real
> working solution for me. I do also love WordComplete as it saves me a lot of
> time.

	Having another pref, to put the mini editor at the top of the
screen, just seems wrong. Like too many prefs for one thing :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: rkrause@e...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 5:07pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editing? Answer ASAP.

You TextPlus and WordComplete fans can have your cake and eat it too 
with Pop! by Rick Bram. (This is a possible solution, not a 
commercial, from a diehard Shadow/Pop! user.) 

Pop! is a hack that allows for customizable word and phrase insertion 
in ANY text entry window. It opens its own window outside of the text 
entry area and it works beautifully with the mini-edit window in 
Shadow. 

You can check it out at:
http://www.digitalglyph.com


Rick Krause

P.S. Thanks to Jeff for a great application that keeps getting better 
all the time, and for unparalleled customer support. 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Craig Stevens" <nsae1@v...> wrote:
> Roy wrote:
> >The problem is that TextPlus's popup menu gets clipped at the 
borders
> of the mini editor window. In other words: the popup menu doesn't
> appear on top of the mini editor, but inside of it and as it is
> taller than the mini editor, the top gets cut off. I hope there's a
> way around this, or I'll have to give up on the mini editor, as much
> as I like it already.>
> 
> 	I have the same problem and I use WordComplete. My problem is 
that I love
> the mini editor an don't want to give it up. It totally makes 
shadow a real
> working solution for me. I do also love WordComplete as it saves me 
a lot of
> time.
> 
> Craig P. Stevens
> Director
> National School of Academic Equitation Inc.
> 11901-215th Place SE
> Snohomish, WA 98296
> (360)668-5242
> Fax(360)668-7012
> mailto:nsae1@v...
> http://www.classical-equitation.com

From: broth123@y...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 7:50pm
Subject: pseudo line editor - keyboard

I have been playing around with the new beta and love the pseudo line 
editor.  I do a lot of entry using the Palm keyboard.  Noticed that 
there is no way to close the line editor item except using the 
stylus.  A key stroke of fn-OK would be great.

Also using the keyboard there is no way to bring up the detail view 
of an item.  The palm keyboard does have a detail button combination 
fn-detail.  These would make the keyboarding entry to be slick.

Thanks for the great response and efforts in the product.

From: lsuprise@i...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 8:04pm
Subject: Re: TOC Auto-start and side effects

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> If/when I add it, yeah, I'll have to
> document it good. I wonder how many people actually read the 
Reference
> Guide :)
> 
> 		jeff



Jeff, I for one read your Reference Guide from cover to cover; it's 
clearly written and very helpful.
    
        Len

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 8:08pm
Subject: Re: pseudo line editor - keyboard

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 broth123@y... wrote:

> I have been playing around with the new beta and love the pseudo line 
> editor.  I do a lot of entry using the Palm keyboard.  Noticed that 
> there is no way to close the line editor item except using the 
> stylus.  A key stroke of fn-OK would be great.

	Keyboards have an "OK" button on them, right? I think the keyboard
driver will actually read the button texts looking for a button labelled
"OK", when you hit the button. I made add an invisible button, to see if
keyboards pick up on that ;)

	As to doing control codes and such.. its a little whacky for the
various keyboards. I need to get a keyboard. I keep saying it, but Ikeep
hating the idea of forking out again, since I may get another unit soon
and I hate havcing to ditch the keyboards with the units :/

	Does Fitaly Stamp use the same sort of keyboard drivers as other
keyboards? If I write code to support Fitaly, will it support real
keyboards?

> Also using the keyboard there is no way to bring up the detail view 
> of an item.  The palm keyboard does have a detail button combination 
> fn-detail.  These would make the keyboarding entry to be slick.

	The detail button on keyboards should work, I think, though maybe
it requires the non-graphical button bar to work. (ie: It might do
somethign goofy like read the button text. I tried it before and it
worked well)

> Thanks for the great response and efforts in the product.

	Sorry for not building more keyboard support; theres a fair amount
in there, but not enough yet ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: aschell2000@h...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 8:27pm
Subject: Re: Inline editor bug...

I'd prefer that a tap outside the mini-edit does nothing. It's a 
small window, I can see my self writing something huriedly and 
tapping the ok but missing -- window disappears...  I'd just leave up 
the screen until ok or cancel has been hit.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "David Keltie" <dave@z...> wrote:
> To my mind, it would be a cancel. I expect to click an OK for OK....
>  
> Cheers
>  
> Dave
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> Sent: 23 October 2001 13:14
> To: shadow-discuss@y...
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Inline editor bug...
> 
> 
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:
> 
> > >       IS it a cancel or an OK?
> > 
> > Would be nice.
> > A cancel, of course 
> 
>       I'm betting eithe way we irritate people; tap outside and
> cancels.. would be easy to lose data. If you tap outside for OK, 
coudl
> irritate people too :) Hmm. I wonder if an implicit OK is correct? 
Or
> maybe leave it alone for now to see about feedback :)
> 
>             jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
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From: broth123@y...
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 8:51pm
Subject: Re: pseudo line editor - keyboard

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 broth123@y... wrote:
> 
> > I have been playing around with the new beta and love the pseudo 
line 
> > editor.  I do a lot of entry using the Palm keyboard.  Noticed 
that 
> > there is no way to close the line editor item except using the 
> > stylus.  A key stroke of fn-OK would be great.
> 
> 	Keyboards have an "OK" button on them, right? I think the 
keyboard
> driver will actually read the button texts looking for a button 
labelled
> "OK", when you hit the button. I made add an invisible button, to 
see if
> keyboards pick up on that ;)
> 


The "OK" button is tied to the "fn" key and it does nothing on the 
editor.  I don't know how the keyboard support works - the keyboard 
seems to be tied to buttons so that fn-OK will do what you desire on 
the detail view.  

Hang in there - I understand the issue of getting keyboards and 
getting different units.


> 	As to doing control codes and such.. its a little whacky for 
the
> various keyboards. I need to get a keyboard. I keep saying it, but 
Ikeep
> hating the idea of forking out again, since I may get another unit 
soon
> and I hate havcing to ditch the keyboards with the units :/
> 
> 	Does Fitaly Stamp use the same sort of keyboard drivers as 
other
> keyboards? If I write code to support Fitaly, will it support real
> keyboards?
> 
> > Also using the keyboard there is no way to bring up the detail 
view 
> > of an item.  The palm keyboard does have a detail button 
combination 
> > fn-detail.  These would make the keyboarding entry to be slick.
> 
> 	The detail button on keyboards should work, I think, though 
maybe
> it requires the non-graphical button bar to work. (ie: It might do
> somethign goofy like read the button text. I tried it before and it
> worked well)
> 
> > Thanks for the great response and efforts in the product.
> 
> 	Sorry for not building more keyboard support; theres a fair 
amount
> in there, but not enough yet ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 3:33am
Subject: Re: pseudo line editor - keyboard

Le 23 Oct 2001, à 16:08, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

(...)
> 	Does Fitaly Stamp use the same sort of keyboard drivers as other
> keyboards? If I write code to support Fitaly, will it support real
> keyboards?
> 

Well, you know, the whole Fitaly keying process is tapping on graffiti area.
Your starting position is just above the center.
tap tap tap tap tap tap !!!
So, tapping a button on the screen is just one cm away : you don't need 
shortcuts ;-))
tap !



Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 9:47pm
Subject: Re: pseudo line editor - keyboard

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> > 	Does Fitaly Stamp use the same sort of keyboard drivers as other
> > keyboards? If I write code to support Fitaly, will it support real
> > keyboards?
> 
> Well, you know, the whole Fitaly keying process is tapping on graffiti area.
> Your starting position is just above the center.
> tap tap tap tap tap tap !!!
> So, tapping a button on the screen is just one cm away : you don't need 
> shortcuts ;-))
> tap !

	Hmm, I detect a fitaly fan here :P

	My point was.. rather than buy a $150CAN keyboard, can I buy
Fitaly, and have it act in a similar fashion? :) I'm betting it doesn't
have control keys though..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 9:51pm
Subject: RE: pseudo line editor - keyboard

I don't think that Fitaly has control keys from what I remember-- I used it
on my IIIc all the time, but never upgraded to the new version for the 505.

Forgive me if I'm nuts, but do you actually need a keyboard for this? Don't
the Stowaway people offer development kits wiht the info you need? Or can
someone on the list who has a keyboard help you out with what you need to
know?

Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 4:47 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] pseudo line editor - keyboard

	My point was.. rather than buy a $150CAN keyboard, can I buy
Fitaly, and have it act in a similar fashion? :) I'm betting it doesn't
have control keys though..

From: jacques@t...
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 4:06am
Subject: Re: pseudo line editor - keyboard

Le 23 Oct 2001, à 17:47, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> > tap tap tap tap tap tap !!!
> > So, tapping a button on the screen is just one cm away : you don't need 
> > shortcuts ;-))
> > tap !
> 
> 	Hmm, I detect a fitaly fan here :P
> 
> 	My point was.. rather than buy a $150CAN keyboard, can I buy
> Fitaly, and have it act in a similar fashion? :) I'm betting it doesn't
> have control keys though..

Right.
Alas, FS was designed for users, not for developpers ;(




Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 23, 2001 11:28pm
Subject: RE: pseudo line editor - keyboard

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> Forgive me if I'm nuts, but do you actually need a keyboard for this? Don't
> the Stowaway people offer development kits wiht the info you need? Or can
> someone on the list who has a keyboard help you out with what you need to
> know?

	Its a matter of testing and building; the keyboard interface is a
bit whacky, and each keyboard behaves a bit differently. ie: The
documentation would say that when you hit Control and such and such a key,
this is what happens. But its not ;) (The documentation is frequently both
bad and inaccurate). So you need a keyboard to build it and see what
happens. Writing some code at random, sending it off to someone to try,
and then randomly hacking again is just nof un -- takes months, and
aggravates everyone involved.

	I'll get another keyboard; I just go to the store, pick it up, and
go grrrr.. "looks the same, same company, but why a different
connector?" Why not a generic connector, with a chuck to make it fit the
specific form factor or connector on a device? *sigh*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jurigararin@y...
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 10:54am
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

It's not a OS 4.0 problem. I'm using OS 3.5.3 and the standard ToDo 
application and have the same problem. I can only get the Shadow-
created ToDO item sorted properly by either changing the priority for-
a dn backwards or by changing the sort option in ToDo for- and 
backwards. (I sort by due date first, than by priority).

Rgds,
Christian
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:
> 
> > Still having the ToDo sort problem, but I have come up with a 
half 
> > decent workaround.  Datebk4 has an option called "Syncsort" 
which, 
> > when enabled, will resort the DateBook and ToDo databases after 
> > performing a hotsync operation.  This will at least correct the 
> > sorting problem whenever I do a hotsync.  After adding ToDo links 
in 
> > Shadow and prior to my next hotsync, however, the ToDo entries 
will 
> > still not be sorted properly.
> > 
> > It is interesting that the two of us who reported this problem 
are 
> > both using a Palm m505 running OS 4.x.  Specifically, I'm running 
> > 4.01.  Anyone else out there running OS 4.x with Shadow and able 
to 
> > link and sort ToDo's properly?
> 
> 	It is curious; other people have mentioned they have no 
problem on
> OS4.x, I think. Certainly, one lad said it only happened to him 
*once*.
> Perhaps a setting in one of the todo apps causes the problem?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 0:27pm
Subject: Re: GtD

Yup, got married on October 6th, and went to Italy for just over 2 weeks for the honeymoon.  I am back now, and thank GOD I have GtD to help me get caught up again!  :)  I will be making the rounds again soon.  See you all later!  :)

-Joe

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., BeccaE <beccaE@s...> wrote:
> At 08:39 PM 10/20/01 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> >         btw..
> >
> >         Joe used to keep me up on whats going on the GtD camp. Is Shadow
> >serving GtD well or have I gone off the mark somewhere?
> >
> >         Wheres Joe!
> >
> >                 jeff
> 
> Joe was getting married sometime in Oct, can't remember the date now, so I 
> suspect he has been busy GTD :).
> 
> Becca

From: broth123@y...
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 3:14pm
Subject: Re: pseudo line editor - keyboard

Just a note of correction to this post - The issue with the buttons 
is with the graphic ones - the old buttons that have the text on them 
behave with the keyboard.



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., broth123@y... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 broth123@y... wrote:
> > 
> > > I have been playing around with the new beta and love the 
pseudo 
> line 
> > > editor.  I do a lot of entry using the Palm keyboard.  Noticed 
> that 
> > > there is no way to close the line editor item except using the 
> > > stylus.  A key stroke of fn-OK would be great.
> > 
> > 	Keyboards have an "OK" button on them, right? I think the 
> keyboard
> > driver will actually read the button texts looking for a button 
> labelled
> > "OK", when you hit the button. I made add an invisible button, to 
> see if
> > keyboards pick up on that ;)
> > 
> 
> 
> The "OK" button is tied to the "fn" key and it does nothing on the 
> editor.  I don't know how the keyboard support works - the keyboard 
> seems to be tied to buttons so that fn-OK will do what you desire 
on 
> the detail view.  
> 
> Hang in there - I understand the issue of getting keyboards and 
> getting different units.
> 
> 
> > 	As to doing control codes and such.. its a little whacky for 
> the
> > various keyboards. I need to get a keyboard. I keep saying it, 
but 
> Ikeep
> > hating the idea of forking out again, since I may get another 
unit 
> soon
> > and I hate havcing to ditch the keyboards with the units :/
> > 
> > 	Does Fitaly Stamp use the same sort of keyboard drivers as 
> other
> > keyboards? If I write code to support Fitaly, will it support real
> > keyboards?
> > 
> > > Also using the keyboard there is no way to bring up the detail 
> view 
> > > of an item.  The palm keyboard does have a detail button 
> combination 
> > > fn-detail.  These would make the keyboarding entry to be slick.
> > 
> > 	The detail button on keyboards should work, I think, though 
> maybe
> > it requires the non-graphical button bar to work. (ie: It might do
> > somethign goofy like read the button text. I tried it before and 
it
> > worked well)
> > 
> > > Thanks for the great response and efforts in the product.
> > 
> > 	Sorry for not building more keyboard support; theres a fair 
> amount
> > in there, but not enough yet ;)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: samir.kasme@s...
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: Re: "Open list" button?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., jacques@t... wrote:
> Hello Samir,
> 
Salut a toi

> But:
> 
> With not any new feature, you can already do a *find* with a word 
you 
> know is near the item you are looking for in a Shadow list: Shadow 
opens 
> the list (expanded as needed) at the right place. I use it quite 
often for big 
> lists. 

Yes, of course this works well. The small problem with this, however, 
is that often you end up looking for fairly common keywords. So  you 
might remember exactly how you called a list, but the same word is 
used 5 times in other lists: "Find" will return several results, from 
which it's hard to know which one will bring you to the correct list. 
With a feature looking only in the titles you would get an 
unambiguous reply.

Samir

From: Peter Bulthuis  <bulthuis@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 9:42pm
Subject: Linking and go back problem

Hello,

I currently use Shadow 1.5.23 and have a problem with following the link to
todo's/apps and then go back to Shadow. When I do this a few times, there is
no problem. But, when I do this more times, the silk homebutton of the Palm
refuses to go to the launcher and wants to stay in Shadow.

Peter

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 9:38pm
Subject: Re: Linking and go back problem

On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Peter Bulthuis wrote:

> I currently use Shadow 1.5.23 and have a problem with following the link to
> todo's/apps and then go back to Shadow. When I do this a few times, there is
> no problem. But, when I do this more times, the silk homebutton of the Palm
> refuses to go to the launcher and wants to stay in Shadow.

	Which launcher are you using? Any hacks?

	You can easily reset the launcher by disabling the option in
shadow. Shadow will then ask you if you need to reset the launcher.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Peter Bulthuis  <bulthuis@c...>
Date: Wed Oct 24, 2001 10:30pm
Subject: RE: Linking and go back problem

Hello Jeff,

I'm using MegaLauncher(VIP)v. 3.1.1. on a m505. I'm using a lot of hacks. I
will check them if one of them makes the problem with Shadow.

Peter

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Verzonden: woensdag 24 oktober 2001 23:38
Aan: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [shadow-discuss] Linking and go back problem


On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Peter Bulthuis wrote:

> I currently use Shadow 1.5.23 and have a problem with following the link
to
> todo's/apps and then go back to Shadow. When I do this a few times, there
is
> no problem. But, when I do this more times, the silk homebutton of the
Palm
> refuses to go to the launcher and wants to stay in Shadow.

	Which launcher are you using? Any hacks?

	You can easily reset the launcher by disabling the option in
shadow. Shadow will then ask you if you need to reset the launcher.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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From: Anthony Milonas  <tonyelit@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 1:39am
Subject: Subject: Re: Little Bug :Characters inserted when deleting linked to shadow items, repating events

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Mylonas Antonis wrote:

> It seems that when i link a shadow item to a datebk event then change it
> to a repeating one and then
> delete an occurence (the first one), two characters are inserted in the
> shadow items description
> which do not display in dtbk
> Here is the case study
On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Jeff wrote:

>Confirmed; Shadow isn't properly seeing the exceptions to the
>repeats, so displays them as text instead of hiding it from you. I'll fix
>it soon as I can.

Thanks for (again) record breaking response :) Please lets us know when this
is fixed

>I don't think theres any harm that can come out, except for what
>you describe. I'll look into it.. should be something I can fix pretty
> quickly.
Off

>Datebook objects have only on date; if you link from Shadow to a
>datebook, then the target date becomes associated to the datebook
>object. If you move the object to a new date, Shadow will pick that up and
>update your target date. However, Shadow only knows about the object
>pointed to (one of the recurring ones.. the latest one, I think).
From what i can see from the example i gave you the date in shadow remains
of the first occurence while the link points correctly to the next in line
(ie Occurence 1 Occurence 2  if i delete Occurence 1 it points to occurence
2 )


P.S Just tried v 15.26 Fantastic Three cheers for mini editor and button bar
which greatly ennahnces usability :)

From: keho@c...
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 3:57am
Subject: two ehancements to support PPK

I use the Palm Portable Keyboard (PPK) and have two enhancement 
suggestions that would simply its use with Shadow:

1) Add an "Open List" menu item with a command shortcut to the Shadow 
list menu to allow me to open the currently selected Shadow file via 
the PPK.

2) Add a menu item and command shortcut for setting the target date 
on a task details form to provide an easy way to set the date using 
the PPK.  I find that when adding a new task item, target date is one 
of the fields I often set right away.

Thanks.

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 9:43am
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

> 	Theres not much I can do about this; the mini editor is a
> popup. If TP is a Hack that sneaks in there, that it has to do the
> trickery, or I have to drop the popup (which would be a pain.. I
> could do an awful thing like open a full screen form, but only
> draw the bottom piece of it, and try and cleanly redraw after it
> you're done..) but its not really appropriate for me to be doing
> that.

I have to agree with that. Doing a job that really should be done by 
the OS usually doesn't guarantee an application's long time 
compatibility with future OS releases.

> 	What if you have a popup box somewhere else on the screen?
> 
> 	You know what.. its pretty dim for them to draw on the
> bottom of the screen, in a way. ie: Palm guidelines suggest all
> dialogs to open in the bottom of the screen :P

Actually, you can decide whether you want the popup to appear close 
to the cursor or at the bottom of the screen. I picked the latter 
because it minimizes pen travel (which is exactly why they put in 
this option); you'd typically use TextPlus while entering graffiti so 
you'd want the popup to appear as close to the graffiti area as 
possible, i.e. the bottom of the screen.

On top of that, if you even want to see the popup at all, you have to 
set it to appear at the bottom of the screen. If it would appear 
anywhere else, it wouldn't be visible at all. I hope this makes sense 
to you. :)

Roy.

From: Yaakov Shlafman  <shlaf@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 10:16am
Subject: Re: two ehancements to support PPK

As an alternative, consider installing and using LapTopHack - the utility
*packed* with features, among others, it gives full PPK support to all
applications - you will be able to select any item in any menu even if there's
no command shortcut (using arrows to highlight and Enter to activate a menu
item); you also have the ability to activate any on-screen button or pop-up
list or selector or just to imitate a pick at any spot on the screen.

www.paulcomputing.com

--- keho@c... wrote:
> I use the Palm Portable Keyboard (PPK) and have two enhancement 
> suggestions that would simply its use with Shadow:
> 
> 1) Add an "Open List" menu item with a command shortcut to the Shadow 
> list menu to allow me to open the currently selected Shadow file via 
> the PPK.
> 
> 2) Add a menu item and command shortcut for setting the target date 
> on a task details form to provide an easy way to set the date using 
> the PPK.  I find that when adding a new task item, target date is one 
> of the fields I often set right away.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
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From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 0:19pm
Subject: RE: Linking and go back problem

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, Peter Bulthuis wrote:

> Hello Jeff,
> 
> I'm using MegaLauncher(VIP)v. 3.1.1. on a m505. I'm using a lot of hacks. I
> will check them if one of them makes the problem with Shadow.

	Most of the people that seem to have problems also use
MegaLauncher, but this may be coincidence since a lot of people use ML :)

		jeff

> 
> Peter
> 
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Verzonden: woensdag 24 oktober 2001 23:38
> Aan: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [shadow-discuss] Linking and go back problem
> 
> 
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, Peter Bulthuis wrote:
> 
> > I currently use Shadow 1.5.23 and have a problem with following the link
> to
> > todo's/apps and then go back to Shadow. When I do this a few times, there
> is
> > no problem. But, when I do this more times, the silk homebutton of the
> Palm
> > refuses to go to the launcher and wants to stay in Shadow.
> 
> 	Which launcher are you using? Any hacks?
> 
> 	You can easily reset the launcher by disabling the option in
> shadow. Shadow will then ask you if you need to reset the launcher.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: PocketGoddess  <jen@p...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 0:51pm
Subject: Questions, Suggestions, and a Problem

While we're talking about wishes, I would like to throw a couple into the
hat. Sorry if you've all heard these things ten million times; I joined the
party rather late. Tuesday, in fact.

On the main files screen, a popup would be nice that comes up when you hold
your stylus on a particular list for a second. That popup would have the
option to open, beam, duplicate, rename, delete, etc. so that you can do
whatever you like right there without having to go to a menu or the buttons
at the bottom of the screen.

Address and memo linking are absolutely awesome, though I wonder why you
don't allow us to set a default for them like we can do for our datebook and
to do applications. Don't most of us generally use one program for addresses
and one for memos? It would be nice to be able to override the default if
there was some reason it was necessary, but it sure would be nice to be able
to say "ActionNames" for all of my address linking and "WordSmith" for all
of my memos, instead of having to set it separately for each link.

I have a problem and another suggestion related to linking as well:  on my
test item, I tried to link in a reading for my class with the professor in
my address book, just to test things out. When I tapped go to in the link
manager box, I was taken to ActionNames, but it was to the detail screen for
an appointment that passed in April! I wasn't taken to the professor's
address, and not even to the contacts area of the program. Is this a Shadow
issue or an ActionNames issue? I have AN 4.6 build 107 and Shadow 1.5.25.

Also, would it be possible to put the address link option on the top box in
the link manager instead of having to click the add button at the bottom? I
bet lots of people will use address linking even more than links to memos
and other programs, and there is that extra line between the to do and
datebook links. . .

From reading the manual, I'm seeing quite a few things that either haven't
been implemented yet, aren't in the beta I have, or I just can't find them.
Specifically the Opt button in the Item Details box on page 31; the "revert
to Last" and "Save Now" commands on page 20; page 17 mentions both "Shadow
Preferences" and "Display Preferences" in the main help menu, and they are
described in detail on pages 4-9 of the manual, but I only have one
selection, for "Preferences."

Also, any chance of adding printing support with PrintBoy or Bonsai import
support??

I think that's enough for now.  : )


Jen

---------------
PocketGoddess
http://www.pocketgoddess.com
98% Palm OS, 100% Fun!

From: pg@d...
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 1:26pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., keho@c... wrote:
> Still having the ToDo sort problem

I can now reliably reproduce the problem.

I have a custom list set up with the following settings:
1. Default priority 2
2. ToDo link box thing (the thing that puts a 'T' in the box when you 
hit it).

I create a Shadow item. Hit the ToDo link thing (so I get the 'T'). 
*Then* change the priority.

I then go to ToDo. The item is sitting in the place where it *would* 
have been if it was still a priority 2 item.

If I go back to Shadow and change the priority, then flip back to 
ToDo, the item is still in the same (wrong) place.

If I change category in ToDo, then back again, the list re-sorts 
correctly.

Another note; I've assigned a h/w button (Address) to Shadow so I can 
flip between them quickly. I don't know if that makes a difference to 
the behavior.

Hope this helps.

Regards, pg

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 1:41pm
Subject: Re: two ehancements to support PPK

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> 1) Add an "Open List" menu item with a command shortcut to the Shadow 
> list menu to allow me to open the currently selected Shadow file via 
> the PPK.

	Will do.

> 2) Add a menu item and command shortcut for setting the target date 
> on a task details form to provide an easy way to set the date using 
> the PPK.  I find that when adding a new task item, target date is one 
> of the fields I often set right away.

	You still need to use the pen to set the date though, no? Or does
the date picker work well with the keyboard?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Questions, Suggestions, and a Problem

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001, PocketGoddess wrote:

> While we're talking about wishes, I would like to throw a couple into the
> hat. Sorry if you've all heard these things ten million times; I joined the
> party rather late. Tuesday, in fact.

	The more the merrier, so welcome aboard :)

> On the main files screen, a popup would be nice that comes up when you
> hold your stylus on a particular list for a second. That popup would
> have the option to open, beam, duplicate, rename, delete, etc. so that
> you can do whatever you like right there without having to go to a
> menu or the buttons at the bottom of the screen.

	This is on my todo list, but its a fair amount of work so I've
left it in favour of more pressing things. I'll be adding it, especially a
category changer option.

> Address and memo linking are absolutely awesome, though I wonder why
> you don't allow us to set a default for them like we can do for our
> datebook and to do applications. Don't most of us generally use one

	The defauilts are the built-ins so are sensible. You only need to
"Set Program" once for each type though.. it is a global preference. I
know its a little non obvious and I plan on moving it to the main Pref
screen. The reaosn it is here is I'm planning on adding support for all
sorts of linking... to "any program". Thus a static pref screen wont' be
sufficient. But for the built-ins, they shoudl probably be with the others
in prefs.

> it sure would be nice to be able to say "ActionNames" for all of my
> address linking and "WordSmith" for all of my memos, instead of having
> to set it separately for each link.

	Just set it once and you're done.

> I have a problem and another suggestion related to linking as well:  
> on my test item, I tried to link in a reading for my class with the
> professor in my address book, just to test things out. When I tapped
> go to in the link manager box, I was taken to ActionNames, but it was
> to the detail screen for an appointment that passed in April! I wasn't
> taken to the professor's address, and not even to the contacts area of
> the program. Is this a Shadow issue or an ActionNames issue? I have AN
> 4.6 build 107 and Shadow 1.5.25.

	Action Names problem; their "goto handler" is non-standard and
they refuse to publish it (silly them). The Todo and Datebook gotos work
perfectly. Address may or may not work (may crash). If someone knows how
to handle the Address-gotos for AN, I'd like to know. (Theres a few
developers out there who do I think, but I need to find tiem to figure out
who they are and ask them). Gotos to other programs work.

> Also, would it be possible to put the address link option on the top
> box in the link manager instead of having to click the add button at
> the bottom? I bet lots of people will use address linking even more
> than links to memos and other programs, and there is that extra line
> between the to do and datebook links. . .

	You can use the links from the main screen; tapping on the link
arrow on the far right lets you go to link manager and also use any
links. In fact, address links (and memo links) can be expanded right
onscreen under the owning item. You need to have the link arrow enabled
(which it is by default on the Shadow built in list types).

> >From reading the manual, I'm seeing quite a few things that either
> haven't been implemented yet, aren't in the beta I have, or I just
> can't find them. Specifically the Opt button in the Item Details box

	The manual is old (it is for 1.5.0 not 1.5.14 ;) The 1.6.0 update
(major updates) include updated manual.

	The "Opt" button was renamed to "Link".

> on page 31; the "revert to Last" and "Save Now" commands on page 20;

	The manual notes these have been removed, which is true.

> page 17 mentions both "Shadow Preferences" and "Display Preferences"
> in the main help menu, and they are described in detail on pages 4-9
> of the manual, but I only have one selection, for "Preferences."

	They have been folded into one. 

	Remember, you're using a beta and the docs haven't caught up yet
;)

> Also, any chance of adding printing support with PrintBoy or Bonsai import
> support??

	Try importing from Bonsai and let me know if it works; Shadow has
a pretty smart importer than just "magicly works" much of the time ;)

	I may add printboy support, but its a very low request. Since you
can print from the desktop, most people will be happy, I think.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

Mm, I see what you mean. Updates to the items are not
resorted. That coudl slow down saving *considerably* if you have a few
todo links.

	Should I fix it? (at your time cost)

		jeff

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 pg@d... wrote:

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., keho@c... wrote:
> > Still having the ToDo sort problem
> 
> I can now reliably reproduce the problem.
> 
> I have a custom list set up with the following settings:
> 1. Default priority 2
> 2. ToDo link box thing (the thing that puts a 'T' in the box when you 
> hit it).
> 
> I create a Shadow item. Hit the ToDo link thing (so I get the 'T'). 
> *Then* change the priority.
> 
> I then go to ToDo. The item is sitting in the place where it *would* 
> have been if it was still a priority 2 item.
> 
> If I go back to Shadow and change the priority, then flip back to 
> ToDo, the item is still in the same (wrong) place.
> 
> If I change category in ToDo, then back again, the list re-sorts 
> correctly.
> 
> Another note; I've assigned a h/w button (Address) to Shadow so I can 
> flip between them quickly. I don't know if that makes a difference to 
> the behavior.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards, pg
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pg@d...
Date: Thu Oct 25, 2001 3:19pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

> 	Mm, I see what you mean. Updates to the items are not
> resorted. That coudl slow down saving *considerably* if you have a 
few
> todo links.
> 	Should I fix it? (at your time cost)

If it would impose a time penalty, my personal pref would be no, 
don't change it.

As long as we know why it's happening, and we know it's not some kind 
of data corruption or whatever, *and* we know how to get round it, 
then it's better to leave it.

I've already got a couple of easy workarounds. Best way is just to 
kill the link and recreate it again after changing priority. Only a 
double-click required on the box.

And anyway, I change the category in ToDo often enough that the list 
will re-sort frequently anyway. My primary concern was that items 
might get 'hidden' (and missed!), but that doesn't seem to be the 
case.

Thanks for the response!

Regards, pg

From: keho@c...
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:21am
Subject: Re: two ehancements to support PPK

Thanks for your response.  Actually I am using LapTopHack, and I 
agree it has great functionality!  The problem with the menu option 
to open a list is not that there is no shortcut, rather there is no 
menu item to do this.  Also, regarding the ability to activate the 
Target Date selector using LapTopHack, if I use the Control Rotator 
it's still five (I think) arrow keystrokes to get to the Target Date 
list once I've activated the rotator with the LTH ESC key.  It would 
be much quicker and easier to do this via a single keystroke 
combination with a menu shortcut.  Alternatively, the pPointer is 
easier than the control rotator to activate the Target Date list, but 
depending on where it pops up, it's still potentially multiple 
keystrokes to position it on the control to be activated.  Again, 
would be much quicker/easier with a menu option and shortcut 
keystroke.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Yaakov Shlafman <shlaf@y...> wrote:
> As an alternative, consider installing and using LapTopHack - the 
utility
> *packed* with features, among others, it gives full PPK support to 
all
> applications - you will be able to select any item in any menu even 
if there's
> no command shortcut (using arrows to highlight and Enter to 
activate a menu
> item); you also have the ability to activate any on-screen button 
or pop-up
> list or selector or just to imitate a pick at any spot on the 
screen.
> 
> www.paulcomputing.com
> 
> --- keho@c... wrote:
> > I use the Palm Portable Keyboard (PPK) and have two enhancement 
> > suggestions that would simply its use with Shadow:
> > 
> > 1) Add an "Open List" menu item with a command shortcut to the 
Shadow 
> > list menu to allow me to open the currently selected Shadow file 
via 
> > the PPK.
> > 
> > 2) Add a menu item and command shortcut for setting the target 
date 
> > on a task details form to provide an easy way to set the date 
using 
> > the PPK.  I find that when adding a new task item, target date is 
one 
> > of the fields I often set right away.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com

From: keho@c...
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:22am
Subject: Re: two ehancements to support PPK

>You still need to use the pen to set the date though, no? Or does
> the date picker work well with the keyboard?

With LapTopHack, the date picker is a piece of cake using the PPK.

Thks.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:
> 
> > 1) Add an "Open List" menu item with a command shortcut to the 
Shadow 
> > list menu to allow me to open the currently selected Shadow file 
via 
> > the PPK.
> 
> 	Will do.
> 
> > 2) Add a menu item and command shortcut for setting the target 
date 
> > on a task details form to provide an easy way to set the date 
using 
> > the PPK.  I find that when adding a new task item, target date is 
one 
> > of the fields I often set right away.
> 
> 	You still need to use the pen to set the date though, no? Or 
does
> the date picker work well with the keyboard?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2001 2:32am
Subject: Re: Re: two ehancements to support PPK

On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> Thanks for your response.  Actually I am using LapTopHack, and I 
> agree it has great functionality!  The problem with the menu option 
> to open a list is not that there is no shortcut, rather there is no 

	1.6.0 has /O to open a file, as per your request. (1.6.0 is due
out in a few days)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Yaakov Shlafman  <shlaf@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 26, 2001 4:44am
Subject: Re: Re: two ehancements to support PPK

First, yuo may use ESC @ to activate "popup lists only rotator" and this will
save you 3 keystrokes.

Second, write a script!  it will look like {script::\r/xs/xs/xs/xs/xs/xn} and
do the job quite fast!  TO make things even faster, give to the script a name
consisting of a single accented letter (say, a with ^).  Typing ESC followed by
that letter from keyboard will invoke the script immediately, without the
dialog with prompt for the script name.  (I am afraid, you have to register the
pedit text editor in order to have access to scripting, but believe that worth
it!)

-- Yaakov.

--- keho@c... wrote:
> Thanks for your response.  Actually I am using LapTopHack, and I 
> agree it has great functionality!  The problem with the menu option 
> to open a list is not that there is no shortcut, rather there is no 
> menu item to do this.  Also, regarding the ability to activate the 
> Target Date selector using LapTopHack, if I use the Control Rotator 
> it's still five (I think) arrow keystrokes to get to the Target Date 
> list once I've activated the rotator with the LTH ESC key.  It would 
> be much quicker and easier to do this via a single keystroke 
> combination with a menu shortcut.  Alternatively, the pPointer is 
> easier than the control rotator to activate the Target Date list, but 
> depending on where it pops up, it's still potentially multiple 
> keystrokes to position it on the control to be activated.  Again, 
> would be much quicker/easier with a menu option and shortcut 
> keystroke.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Yaakov Shlafman <shlaf@y...> wrote:
> > As an alternative, consider installing and using LapTopHack - the 
> utility
> > *packed* with features, among others, it gives full PPK support to 
> all
> > applications - you will be able to select any item in any menu even 
> if there's
> > no command shortcut (using arrows to highlight and Enter to 
> activate a menu
> > item); you also have the ability to activate any on-screen button 
> or pop-up
> > list or selector or just to imitate a pick at any spot on the 
> screen.
> > 
> > www.paulcomputing.com
> > 
> > --- keho@c... wrote:
> > > I use the Palm Portable Keyboard (PPK) and have two enhancement 
> > > suggestions that would simply its use with Shadow:
> > > 
> > > 1) Add an "Open List" menu item with a command shortcut to the 
> Shadow 
> > > list menu to allow me to open the currently selected Shadow file 
> via 
> > > the PPK.
> > > 
> > > 2) Add a menu item and command shortcut for setting the target 
> date 
> > > on a task details form to provide an easy way to set the date 
> using 
> > > the PPK.  I find that when adding a new task item, target date is 
> one 
> > > of the fields I often set right away.
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com