From: maclover88  <maclover88@m...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 0:08pm
Subject: another question

I just had to reinstall all my files from my Palm desktop software on my
Mac. I was surprised that all my old deleatd Shadow files reappeared on my
Visor. I went into the backup folder and pulled out all the old files, but
it was a pain. Is there an easy way that Shadow can mark Archive files so it
is easier to do a current restore?

Now that I am getting up to speed, I want to thank Jeff for such a cool app.

Thanks,
Jim

From: keho@c...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 3:25pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

>>Which version of Shadow are you using? 
1.5.14

>>Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
I've disabled all of my hacks.  I've also wiped all apps and data 
from RAM (still stuff on the SD card and a few things in flash) and 
just put the Shadow prc and pdb files back.  Still getting the same 
problem with the ToDo sorting.  Tried to think of anything else that 
would affect sorting and couldn't come up with anything.

Any other thoughts?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:
> 
> > case).  In the ToDo application, my default sort order 
is "Category, 
> > Priority".  When I view my to do's in Datebk4, they are also 
sorted 
> > by Category then Priority, as DB4 uses the sort order specified 
in 
> > the Palm ToDo application.  
> 
> 	Which version of Shadow are you using? Since you can do link
> categories, you're likely in 1.5.14, and all the Shadows since way 
back
> (1.3.?) have made sure to use the proper sort ordering. (If not 
earlier
> versions). If Shadow didn't sort it correctly, a lot of people 
would be
> after me ;)
> 
> 	Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pg@d...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 4:01pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

> 	Which version of Shadow are you using? Since you can do link
> categories, you're likely in 1.5.14, and all the Shadows since way 
back
> (1.3.?) have made sure to use the proper sort ordering. (If not 
earlier
> versions). If Shadow didn't sort it correctly, a lot of people 
would be
> after me ;)
> 
> 	Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?

I've also had this problem! I created a new Shadow item, priority 2, 
and created a link to ToDo. The new item showed up in the ToDo list 
at the end (i.e. after the priority 3 items) even though the sort 
order was "Priority then date". The rest of the existing ToDo items 
remained sorted correctly. New items created directly in ToDo were 
inserted into the right place, but the linked item remained at the 
end. Quitting and re-entering ToDo didn't help. Changing the Category 
filter in ToDo and back again didn't help. Changing the priority of 
the item then changing it back did, however, cause it to re-sort 
properly.

But, darn it, this only happened *once*, the very first time I 
created a linked item! It has *never* happened again. (Grrr! ;-) )

I'm using 1.5.14 (unregistered) on an m505 (OS4.0) with the built-in 
ToDo app. No fancy stuff, no hacks, no DateBook replacement.

But... while I'm here... I have noticed one other small 'bug'.

I have a list which is set to create new link items in the ToDo 
category 'Work'. However, when I create a link, the category is 
listed as 'Unfiled'. If I click on the 'Unfiled' box, the list of 
ToDo categories appears, and 'Work' is highlighted. If I click 
on 'Work', the list collapses, but 'Unfiled' is again displayed as 
the selected item. However, if I OK the link, and go back in to the 
link manager, 'Work' is now displayed (and the item has correctly 
been linked to 'Work' in the ToDo list).

I now ignore this discrepancy because I know that even if I don't try 
to change the category from 'Unfiled' it is in fact going to create 
the item in 'Work'.

I couldn't find any other mention of this problem on the group.

(Shadow is a very nice app though. It's not absolutely perfect for my 
use, but the ToDo linking is done nicely enough that I can integrate 
it with my existing ways of working. Now, if you can just get the 
child-parent date sort thing the way I like it... ;-) )

Regards, PatG

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:01pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I must say I'm in the camp of those who would prefer "true" inline 
> editing. I think those of us who use it "real-time" (.i.e. notes, in 
> meetings) want the fastest data entry--inline delivers this.  Those 
> individuals who use Shadow for planning (generally when more time is 
> available) would prefer the current method.

	Have you seen the mini editor (or screenshots thereof) I added
yesterday?

> Assuming the inline camp want it for initial fast data entry, can 
> another input method be created?  My proposal (not sure if it can be 
> done on the Palm)is to be able to import a outline fragment from a 
> memo into a Shadow outline.  Of course, the outline fragment would 
> need to follow existing import rules.  Also, importing a outline 
> fragment from the clipboard directly into a Shadow outline would be 
> preferable than saving to a file from memopad then importing directly 
> into a Shadow list.

	We can already import from memo to a new list. I was thinking of
adding a merge-two-lists option, so as to be most flexible. (It would be
useful for a wider variety of things then). So in theory you could import,
then merge. Would that help?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:08pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> What about, if three line mini-entry window :

	Oh deer. You're a freak ;)

	I didn't think of having a .. staying mini window. In that case,
I'd almost skip having a mini window entirely.. just have a permanent text
field at the bottom of the screen. (shorten the outline display). Have
little teeny icon buttons around it, and left-right next/prev panel
buttons to change the mini editor view.

	I don't think the palm screen is well suited to that.. the Clie
maybe, and maybe Handera (if it were taller rather than wider) .. where
you have space for stuff. But shortening the outline display, for more
edit space onscreen...

	Is that what you want?

	Pretty darned neat idea though, but a lot of work.

	Do you need to enter dates while seeing the outline onscreen? Or
isn't a Detail button enough, which just jumps you to the normal detail
window?

	Hmm..

	I really admire the idea :)

		jeff
> 
> Six buttons :
> 
> [Confirm] Would "send" the text but keep the  open for ongoing entry (to 
> dismiss : tap outside mini-entry), and the entered taxt would appear just 
> above the miniwindow (one item scroll in main screen)
> 
> [Cancel} Clears current entry  but keep the  open for ongoing entry
> and (maybe on the left side) :
> 
> [Date] : would call the date part of detail dialog (in a three lines mini 
> window) (while in date, confirm would bring you back to current text entry)
> (a second tap on [Date] would open the full screen Detail editor)
> 
> [Note] : would "send" the entry for item note (a second tap on [Note] would 
> open the full screen Note editor)
> 
> and [Next]  and [Child} :
> [Next]  could confirm and clear for a new sibbling with one tap, a new 
> upper level item with two taps
> [Child}  could confirm and clear for  a new child entry
> 
> 
> So the mini-windows could look like : 
> 
> 
> Item entry : 
> 
> [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> [Note]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> 
> 
> 
> Dates entry : 
> 
> [Date]  Target...........      Auto #        [Confirm]
> [Note]  Start.............      A-B-C         [Cancel}
> [Next]  Finish.................................  [Child}
> 
> 
> Note entry :
> 
> [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> [Title]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> 
> 
> That way : 
> 
> That would allow almost pure inline editing (ongoing, an eye on context)
> Miniwindow could be in Shadow options (recalled at first character entry, 
> when dismissed, )
> 
> 
> Just for thoughts,
> 
> 
> Jacques
> 
> Jacques Turbé
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:10pm
Subject: Re: another question

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

> I just had to reinstall all my files from my Palm desktop software on my
> Mac. I was surprised that all my old deleatd Shadow files reappeared on my
> Visor. I went into the backup folder and pulled out all the old files, but
> it was a pain. Is there an easy way that Shadow can mark Archive files so it
> is easier to do a current restore?

	That restore operation is entirely up to hotsync manager; it is
supposed to manage whethor the files should be deleted or kept or the
like. Not up to Shadow at all. (The XML is up to Shadow, but a restore in
that case is also work. I shall have to think about that)

	(In fact, you got off easy; the version of HM I use frequently
deletes the new versions on me and keeps the old ones .. I did as restore
awhile back and went back 6 months :/)

	Perhaps a newer version of HM works better for you? (mine is
pretty old and broken, I found out ;)

> Now that I am getting up to speed, I want to thank Jeff for such a
> cool app.

	Thanks for using it :) Be sure to let us know any other ideas you
have,

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> >>Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> I've disabled all of my hacks.  I've also wiped all apps and data 
> from RAM (still stuff on the SD card and a few things in flash) and 
> just put the Shadow prc and pdb files back.  Still getting the same 
> problem with the ToDo sorting.  Tried to think of anything else that 
> would affect sorting and couldn't come up with anything.
> 
> Any other thoughts?

	Your'e using OS4.x then. Does it have more sorting options than
the old ToDo apps in 3.x? IF it changes things a little, it could confuse
shadow..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 pg@d... wrote:

> But, darn it, this only happened *once*, the very first time I 
> created a linked item! It has *never* happened again. (Grrr! ;-) )

	Once? Hmm..

	You're also on OS4.x; I wonder if there ssomething there. I don't
have an OS4 unit yet.

> I have a list which is set to create new link items in the ToDo 
> category 'Work'. However, when I create a link, the category is 
> listed as 'Unfiled'. If I click on the 'Unfiled' box, the list of 
> ToDo categories appears, and 'Work' is highlighted. If I click 
> on 'Work', the list collapses, but 'Unfiled' is again displayed as 
> the selected item. However, if I OK the link, and go back in to the 
> link manager, 'Work' is now displayed (and the item has correctly 
> been linked to 'Work' in the ToDo list).

	Display bug; it works fine, just displays wrong. Thanks for
reminding me.. I'll see if I can fix it.

> I couldn't find any other mention of this problem on the group.

	Its ben awhile. Everyone sets it once, then forgets about it ;)

> (Shadow is a very nice app though. It's not absolutely perfect for my 
> use, but the ToDo linking is done nicely enough that I can integrate 
> it with my existing ways of working. Now, if you can just get the 
> child-parent date sort thing the way I like it... ;-) )

	hehe. So many things to do and so little time :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pg@d...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:26pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

> 	Your'e using OS4.x then. Does it have more sorting options 
than
> the old ToDo apps in 3.x? IF it changes things a little, it could 
confuse
> shadow..

ToDo looks the same in OS4.0 as it did in all the others; same 
sorting options.

I'll try to get the error to happen again. Maybe it stopped because I 
set something up in my Custom list which inadvertently fixed it.

I'll let you know if I find anything.

Regards, PatG

From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:31pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 261

1)  I am sooooooo extraordinarily thankful for the
Desktop version!  I want to definitely register and
pay the $!  Reading everybody's techno-freak-posts
made me think I was in over my head, at first ... but
the more I read and played, the more all the language
started to sink in.  

2)  I got a little worried this morning when I
couldn't get my deskpalm to start by clicking on the
shortcut . . . (after playing around for hours with
all my outlines last night on the 1523 beta).  But, I
rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate that, BTW, I
can't help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work
in the first place?")

3) Last night, it would not open a few files because
of the foreign character problem, but this morning I
went into the folder of xml and found out it did not
like the white spaces I had in the name of some of the
outlines' names.  When I used the HH to rename the
files without the white spaces, and rebooted, (again!)
it fixed the problem!  I feel pretty smart!

4) It did take me a little time to figure out how to
use the HH menu for each of my outlines (I have about
40 of them), go to "list-then, preferences", and check
"synch" to get my outlines out of the Shadow folder
and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I realized that
was the way to do it, I just opened the outlines on
the Shadow DT by clicking on them in the explorer
window (which felt dangerous because I could have
theoretically gotten my outlines all clobbered.)

5) My ONLY problem is that now I am spending lots more
time planning all my work instead of doing it! (Can
you fix that bug?!LOL) It's a lot more fun, sometimes,
than some of the nitty gritty daily routines of a
first grade teacher.  OTOH when I do get around to
doing the stuff--- it will be very efficiently and
terrifically integrated!

6) I have the feeling that Shadow will change my life.
 I am not kidding about this . . . I am beginning to
work out linked outlines for so many areas of my life,
from shining my sink-to planning a science unit about
Honeybees for first graders.  Instead of experiencing 
that overwhemed and "disconnected" anxiety feeling (
especially since Sept 11) --- where I am always
asking, "What am I doing with my life?"---  When I
forget, temporarily, I can get back on track when I
see (on a little screen in front of me) and remember
how everything that I do is purposeful, after all.

7) Again, my enormous appreciation for all that you
are doing.

=====
Peggy_darling@y..."Sorrow shared is halved and joy shared is doubled."             Native American Saying

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 261

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Peggy Darling wrote:

> 1)  I am sooooooo extraordinarily thankful for the Desktop version!  
> I want to definitely register and pay the $!  Reading everybody's
> techno-freak-posts made me think I was in over my head, at first ...
> but the more I read and played, the more all the language started to
> sink in.

	If you are confused by anything.. let me know! Confusion means I
made somethign too difficult!

> 2)  I got a little worried this morning when I couldn't get my
> deskpalm to start by clicking on the shortcut . . . (after playing
> around for hours with all my outlines last night on the 1523 beta).  
> But, I rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate that, BTW, I can't
> help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work in the first place?")

	*shrug*. "Windows" ;)

> 3) Last night, it would not open a few files because of the foreign
> character problem, but this morning I went into the folder of xml and
> found out it did not like the white spaces I had in the name of some
> of the outlines' names.  When I used the HH to rename the files
> without the white spaces, and rebooted, (again!) it fixed the problem!  
> I feel pretty smart!

	Exploring is good :)  But you say filenames with spaces sometimes
wouldn't load into the desktop app? I'll have to try.. they should work
okay..

> 4) It did take me a little time to figure out how to use the HH menu
> for each of my outlines (I have about 40 of them), go to "list-then,
> preferences", and check "synch" to get my outlines out of the Shadow
> folder and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I realized that was the
> way to do it, I just opened the outlines on the Shadow DT by clicking
> on them in the explorer window (which felt dangerous because I could
> have theoretically gotten my outlines all clobbered.)

	Clicking on them in explorer? What do you mean exactly? (I'm
picking on wording, since I need to know what your'e when I write the
manual ;)

	The manual will explain that you need to activate the sync flag
for each list. I could reverse the flag to be a "no sync" so by default
everythign syncs.. but I prefer to wait awhile and find out what peopel
think first, and get initial feedback from the world, etc.

> 5) My ONLY problem is that now I am spending lots more time planning
> all my work instead of doing it! (Can you fix that bug?!LOL) It's a
> lot more fun, sometimes, than some of the nitty gritty daily routines
> of a first grade teacher.  OTOH when I do get around to doing the
> stuff--- it will be very efficiently and terrifically integrated!

	I'm always amazed.. you do so manuy things every day. If you write
them down into an outline, to try and organize, refine, plan, you find out
just how much you do every day. I'll lay down a workplan for some project
that I've been working on for awhile, and realize theres 30 items
left.. if you ticked them off in your head, sure, there they are. But if
someone had asked you, you'd have said a dozen things were left, since you
just didn't think of it that way :)

> 6) I have the feeling that Shadow will change my life.
>  I am not kidding about this . . . I am beginning to work out linked
> outlines for so many areas of my life, from shining my sink-to
> planning a science unit about Honeybees for first graders.  Instead of
> experiencing that overwhemed and "disconnected" anxiety feeling (
> especially since Sept 11) --- where I am always asking, "What am I
> doing with my life?"--- When I forget, temporarily, I can get back on
> track when I see (on a little screen in front of me) and remember how
> everything that I do is purposeful, after all.

	I hope it helps you out! :)  The only problem I find is keeping
disciplined enough to keep everythign in the PDA. If you keep everythign
in, it will help. If you start to end up with a little pileof scraps of
paper, you better enter them in, or else you'll end up with two sets of
lists and go insane ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: samir.kasme@s...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:27pm
Subject: "Open list" button?

Hi

I just thought about a feature that would be just great (I don't 
think it has been mentioned here yet):

How about another way of quickly opening a list by finding a keyword 
in the title, example: 

- I launch ShadowPlan (with a hardware button of course)
- I get the list view of the last list I was in, or (seldomly) the 
file selection screen. In order to go to a particular list as quickly 
as possible, I can:

1: Go back to list selection screen, cycle through the categories, 
and select the list I'm interested in. Very unefficient.
2: Push the "Recent" button or the hardware button. This is very 
nice, but only gives me the last accessed 10 lists, in an order that 
I haven't been able yet to figure out ;-)
When you often change from one list to another, this recent files 
list gets too short. Which leaves me with the first, unefficient 
way...

If I know exactly the name of the list that I want (which I usually 
do), wouldn't it be so much faster to push an "open list" or "find 
list" button, and to write in the first letters of the title. 
I can't use the available find features for that: the Shadow find 
only looks wihtin a particular list, and the global Find (big 
disappointment) does not find words in a list's title..

Would be great in the enhanced (expert) button bar!...

Cheers
Samir

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:45pm
Subject: Re: "Open list" button?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 samir.kasme@s... wrote:

> How about another way of quickly opening a list by finding a keyword 
> in the title, example: 

	Could do this. Or keep a table of contents file with links to
other files, and then use built in search to do it :) (But this is
clumbsy.. few peopel make themselves a TOC file, since its a lot of work).

	Good idea.

> If I know exactly the name of the list that I want (which I usually 
> do), wouldn't it be so much faster to push an "open list" or "find 
> list" button, and to write in the first letters of the title. 
> I can't use the available find features for that: the Shadow find 
> only looks wihtin a particular list, and the global Find (big 
> disappointment) does not find words in a list's title..

	Hmm, good point. I could try and think of a way of supporting
search to filename. Would that be sufficient?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

I gotta say I love this idea! I wouldn't want it permanent because it 
would be in the way when just doing daily maintenance on lists, such 
as viewing and checking off items.

But, for defining a new project, it'd rock! I can just see using it 
for brainstorming sessions...especially the next and child buttons.

Is it really all that much work? (Attempts to justify asking you to 
put this in).



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:
> 
> > What about, if three line mini-entry window :
> 
> 	Oh deer. You're a freak ;)
> 
> 	I didn't think of having a .. staying mini window. In that 
case,
> I'd almost skip having a mini window entirely.. just have a 
permanent text
> field at the bottom of the screen. (shorten the outline display). 
Have
> little teeny icon buttons around it, and left-right next/prev panel
> buttons to change the mini editor view.
> 
> 	I don't think the palm screen is well suited to that.. the 
Clie
> maybe, and maybe Handera (if it were taller rather than wider) .. 
where
> you have space for stuff. But shortening the outline display, for 
more
> edit space onscreen...
> 
> 	Is that what you want?
> 
> 	Pretty darned neat idea though, but a lot of work.
> 
> 	Do you need to enter dates while seeing the outline onscreen? 
Or
> isn't a Detail button enough, which just jumps you to the normal 
detail
> window?
> 
> 	Hmm..
> 
> 	I really admire the idea :)
> 
> 		jeff
> > 
> > Six buttons :
> > 
> > [Confirm] Would "send" the text but keep the  open for ongoing 
entry (to 
> > dismiss : tap outside mini-entry), and the entered taxt would 
appear just 
> > above the miniwindow (one item scroll in main screen)
> > 
> > [Cancel} Clears current entry  but keep the  open for ongoing 
entry
> > and (maybe on the left side) :
> > 
> > [Date] : would call the date part of detail dialog (in a three 
lines mini 
> > window) (while in date, confirm would bring you back to current 
text entry)
> > (a second tap on [Date] would open the full screen Detail editor)
> > 
> > [Note] : would "send" the entry for item note (a second tap on 
[Note] would 
> > open the full screen Note editor)
> > 
> > and [Next]  and [Child} :
> > [Next]  could confirm and clear for a new sibbling with one tap, 
a new 
> > upper level item with two taps
> > [Child}  could confirm and clear for  a new child entry
> > 
> > 
> > So the mini-windows could look like : 
> > 
> > 
> > Item entry : 
> > 
> > [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> > [Note]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> > [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dates entry : 
> > 
> > [Date]  Target...........      Auto #        [Confirm]
> > [Note]  Start.............      A-B-C         [Cancel}
> > [Next]  Finish.................................  [Child}
> > 
> > 
> > Note entry :
> > 
> > [Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
> > [Title]  ........................................  [Cancel}
> > [Next]  ........................................  [Child}
> > 
> > 
> > That way : 
> > 
> > That would allow almost pure inline editing (ongoing, an eye on 
context)
> > Miniwindow could be in Shadow options (recalled at first 
character entry, 
> > when dismissed, )
> > 
> > 
> > Just for thoughts,
> > 
> > 
> > Jacques
> > 
> > Jacques Turbé
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 11:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:

> I gotta say I love this idea! I wouldn't want it permanent because it 
> would be in the way when just doing daily maintenance on lists, such 
> as viewing and checking off items.
> 
> But, for defining a new project, it'd rock! I can just see using it 
> for brainstorming sessions...especially the next and child buttons.
> 
> Is it really all that much work? (Attempts to justify asking you to 
> put this in).

	Consider.. you already have buttons to make new and children, and
shortcuts for them. If you just start typing/writing, it starts a new
item (mini editor or not). So speed of entry is already there :) For mini
editor.. just start writing. Hit check. Start writing. Hit check. You're
knocking them in.

	The proposal below is neat, since it offers the idea of other mini
editor panels, like dates and such. But if you're going to spend the time
changing panels, why not just use Details, where its all there nice and
quick. You'd save time entering in Details, since you wouldn't have to
save panels.

	Making the mini editor bigger seems to be against the whole point
of it, which is to edit while still seeing the outline, no?

	Or if the mini ed should be a condensed ed instead.. Two lines for
text like it is now, with one line underneath for the 3 dates (no
titles.. just start date -- finish date -- target date on one line). Thats
possible. But it still costs you another line of visibility..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 11:22pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Hmm...got me there...I hadn't thought of exactly how simple it is to 
enter new items with the mini-editor.

Of course, know you got me thinking, which may not be good <LOL>.

What about adding some buttons to the details dialog? I really don't 
care much about seeing the list as I enter items. But, it'd be great 
to have New Sibling, New Child, New Parent buttons in the existing 
details dialog. The New Parent would create an item one level up from 
the current item being entered, the other two are pretty self 
explanatory. 

I'd be more apt to use that then the mini-edit window...though it's 
cool in it's own right.

FWIW, I am not using dates or priorities for hardly anything since 
switching to the Getting Things Done method. The only time I use a 
date is if something absolutely is time constrained...

OK...so now to the bad part of getting me thinking here...how about 
removing a line or two from the details dialog and moving some of the 
linking buttons there?

It'd be great to have a todo link checkbox and category drop down 
right in the details box...also doing this for file and datebook 
linking would make sense as these are one to one links.

I'd keep the seperate dialog for address/memo linking as it is a one 
to many type link.

While I am at it...I think changing the button style in the details 
dialog to the new version would be cool, and could add some space to 
implement the ideas above. Hmmm, in fact you could even add my 
Next/Child/Parent buttons onto it. I might even suggest removing the 
auto # preference from the details dialog as the only time *I* have 
used it is per list, not per parent/child/sibling.

OK, one last thing. I love the new button bar. Might be nice though 
to change the X for exit, do a D for done...that X to me keeps 
tricking me into thinking it's a delete button (damn Outlook).

Aren't you sorry for responding so quick now ;-)

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:
> 
> 	Consider.. you already have buttons to make new and children, 
and
> shortcuts for them. If you just start typing/writing, it starts a 
new
> item (mini editor or not). So speed of entry is already there :) 
For mini
> editor.. just start writing. Hit check. Start writing. Hit check. 
You're
> knocking them in.
> 
> 	The proposal below is neat, since it offers the idea of other 
mini
> editor panels, like dates and such. But if you're going to spend 
the time
> changing panels, why not just use Details, where its all there nice 
and
> quick. You'd save time entering in Details, since you wouldn't have 
to
> save panels.
> 
> 	Making the mini editor bigger seems to be against the whole 
point
> of it, which is to edit while still seeing the outline, no?
> 
> 	Or if the mini ed should be a condensed ed instead.. Two 
lines for
> text like it is now, with one line underneath for the 3 dates (no
> titles.. just start date -- finish date -- target date on one 
line). Thats
> possible. But it still costs you another line of visibility..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:28am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Le 20 Oct 2001, à 13:08, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> 	I didn't think of having a .. staying mini window. In that case,
> I'd almost skip having a mini window entirely.. just have a 
permanent
> text field at the bottom of the screen. (shorten the outline 
display). 

Well the mini-editor would be dismissed  (back to button bar) while,
reading, hilighting, filtering, linking, expanding ....

Have
> little teeny icon buttons around it, and left-right next/prev panel
> buttons to change the mini editor view.

That's it !
> 
> 	I don't think the palm screen is well suited to that.. 

I would have thought so till you build your superb minieditor for new
items
 ;-)

Awesome !

But shortening the outline display, for more
> edit space onscreen...
> 	Is that what you want?
Well its altogether nice and usefull for organizing while wtiting 
short
notes > > 	Pretty darned neat idea though, but a lot of work.

Sure ;-) 
Your fault : without your .gif and 1.5.25 proto, I would never have 
had
that idea !

> 	Do you need to enter dates while seeing the outline onscreen? 

Not really : just for UI congruence sake : I need the two others : 
items
and notes for non stop entry, with an eye on surrounding context  
(and
eventually fast jump to a better place to write a coming idea.

Or
> isn't a Detail button enough, which just jumps you to the normal 
detail
> window?

BTW, please (very often asked), please, Jeff, please do put first 
words of
current item as note title in note window !!!! It *really* would help
(when writing a longer than one screen note, it's easy to forget 
where you
are, and mix ideas (because no seeing main view), and then have to 
cut and
paste chunks of text into more appropriate branches notes. Please, 
That
one is very little work, isn'it ?

BTW (2) I was wrong the other day : now that I can play with it, I 
love
the button bar ;-) 

> > 	Hmm.. 
> > 	I really admire the idea :)

Hope you won't bury it under flowers ;-))
No matter the how, keep the purpose : Fast non stop entry, with an 
eye on the surrounding !
(and avoiding the dull backoffice of Palm text windows (detail and 
note)

;-)



Thanks,

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 11:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:

> Hmm...got me there...I hadn't thought of exactly how simple it is to 
> enter new items with the mini-editor.

	muahuahua :)

> Of course, know you got me thinking, which may not be good <LOL>.

	hehe. Thinking is bad. Stop immediately. Find a nearby bottle of
Glenmarangie Scotch (Sherry Cask) (thats my fix ;) immediately.

> What about adding some buttons to the details dialog? I really don't 
> care much about seeing the list as I enter items. But, it'd be great 
> to have New Sibling, New Child, New Parent buttons in the existing 
> details dialog. The New Parent would create an item one level up from 
> the current item being entered, the other two are pretty self 
> explanatory. 

	I have thought about adding the New buttons to the Detail
window. Hitting New on the Detail window is the same as hitting OK and New
in a row.. you just don't get to see what just happened. Not too hard to
build. Just replace OK and Cancel buttons with graphical OK/Cancel buttons
(like the ones in the mini editor), and then I'd have room to add the 3
new graphical buttons. Tempting. (of course, based on your graphical
button bar pref)

> I'd be more apt to use that then the mini-edit window...though it's 
> cool in it's own right.

	You create that much text?

> FWIW, I am not using dates or priorities for hardly anything since 
> switching to the Getting Things Done method. The only time I use a 
> date is if something absolutely is time constrained...

	Do you use other apps (like a todo app?) to do dates, or did you
find a way to just note use dates?

> OK...so now to the bad part of getting me thinking here...how about 
> removing a line or two from the details dialog and moving some of the 
> linking buttons there?

	Can't fit; the Link Manager window is necessary I think.. theres
just too many options, and separating some of them away just makes it more
confusing.

> It'd be great to have a todo link checkbox and category drop down 
> right in the details box...also doing this for file and datebook 
> linking would make sense as these are one to one links.

	I thought about [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking; tap on the
[T] box and it pops up a list of todo categories, pick one, and the link
gets made. *shrug* You could of course just use the [T] optional todo link
column ;)

> While I am at it...I think changing the button style in the details 
> dialog to the new version would be cool, and could add some space to 
> implement the ideas above. Hmmm, in fact you could even add my 
> Next/Child/Parent buttons onto it. I might even suggest removing the 
> auto # preference from the details dialog as the only time *I* have 
> used it is per list, not per parent/child/sibling.

	If you go deeper than 3 items, you need them there.

	I may add graphical buttons to a bunch of windows, but I want to
see how the existing ones are received, and take a breather. It'd take
awhile to draw up all the little icons and build the code to hide/show the
appropriate sets of buttons right. (ie: I'm thinking of making a
customizable button system, where you can attach buttons to the left or
right or bottom of various windows. We'll see ;)

> OK, one last thing. I love the new button bar. Might be nice though 
> to change the X for exit, do a D for done...that X to me keeps 
> tricking me into thinking it's a delete button (damn Outlook).

	heh. Fix outlook ;)

	(X means done in Windows; see the top right of every window. As
such, X shoudl never be used for anythign else in windows..)

> Aren't you sorry for responding so quick now ;-)

	Yeah :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:16am
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Absolut Mandarin for me :-)

Cool...so we're on the same page there...and yes, based on your bar 
preference would only make sense...glad that this seems simple ;-)

At current I am not creating that much text...but as I am slowly 
being dragged into more and more meetings, I could see myself 
creating that many items. Also, as I have these "moments of thinking" 
I can tend to fly and throw stuff into Shadow quickly. Realize also I 
have written code before myself...so sometimes I like putting things 
in just because they'd be really cool, rather than I'd use them.

I use DateBk4 and a series of views to define what context I am in. 
For example if I tell DateBk4 I am at my desk, it will show me items 
that can be done at a phone, computer, or at my office desk. The idea 
of Getting Things Done is to keep track of everything and do things 
by context rather than by date. Sure, there are a few things that are 
date constrained, so I will generally link those to a Floating event 
in DateBk4. I know this way of keeping track of things sounds odd, 
but my productivity has really picked up since starting to use it's 
ideas.

That is a good idea...why have a seperate checkbox, to break an 
existing link just choose none, and then Shadow could pop up a dialog 
prompting to break or delete entirely. I do use the the todo link 
column...just trying to think of a simple way to link and set the 
category at the same time. The GTD system requires me to set 
different categories for each item depending on where I can do it. 
For example one item may be set to do at a computer, another at a 
phone, and still another could be done anywhere (such as creating a 
new DB on my Palm).

More buttons would be cool... but I understand wanting to wait. I do 
hope though that the buttons we spoke of above for the details 
dialog. Another two buttons for the details dialog could be scroll 
buttons so you could scroll through your list right from the details 
dialog...just an idea (reference former coder above <LOL>).

I agree...thus the damming out Outlook.


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	hehe. Thinking is bad. Stop immediately. Find a nearby bottle 
of
> Glenmarangie Scotch (Sherry Cask) (thats my fix ;) immediately.
> 
> 	I have thought about adding the New buttons to the Detail
> window. Hitting New on the Detail window is the same as hitting OK 
and New
> in a row.. you just don't get to see what just happened. Not too 
hard to
> build. Just replace OK and Cancel buttons with graphical OK/Cancel 
buttons
> (like the ones in the mini editor), and then I'd have room to add 
the 3
> new graphical buttons. Tempting. (of course, based on your graphical
> button bar pref)
> 
> 	You create that much text?
> 
> 	Do you use other apps (like a todo app?) to do dates, or did 
you
> find a way to just note use dates?
> 

> 
> 	I thought about [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking; tap on 
the
> [T] box and it pops up a list of todo categories, pick one, and the 
link
> gets made. *shrug* You could of course just use the [T] optional 
todo link
> column ;)
> 
> 	I may add graphical buttons to a bunch of windows, but I want 
to
> see how the existing ones are received, and take a breather. It'd 
take
> awhile to draw up all the little icons and build the code to 
hide/show the
> appropriate sets of buttons right. (ie: I'm thinking of making a
> customizable button system, where you can attach buttons to the 
left or
> right or bottom of various windows. We'll see ;)
> 	heh. Fix outlook ;)
> 
> 	(X means done in Windows; see the top right of every window. 
As
> such, X shoudl never be used for anythign else in windows..)
> 
> > Aren't you sorry for responding so quick now ;-)
> 
> 	Yeah :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> BTW, please (very often asked), please, Jeff, please do put first 
> words of
> current item as note title in note window !!!! It *really* would help
> (when writing a longer than one screen note, it's easy to forget 
> where you

	Done.

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:39am
Subject: GtD

btw..

	Joe used to keep me up on whats going on the GtD camp. Is Shadow
serving GtD well or have I gone off the mark somewhere?

	Wheres Joe!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: BeccaE  <beccaE@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:45am
Subject: Re: GtD

At 08:39 PM 10/20/01 -0400, you wrote:

>         btw..
>
>         Joe used to keep me up on whats going on the GtD camp. Is Shadow
>serving GtD well or have I gone off the mark somewhere?
>
>         Wheres Joe!
>
>                 jeff

Joe was getting married sometime in Oct, can't remember the date now, so I 
suspect he has been busy GTD :).

Becca

From: Sue Thomas  <s.c-thomas@h...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 2:12am
Subject: RE: GtD

On that point, let me add that I used Shadow to keep track of items for
my wedding (which was in August).

I'd won Shadow during a draw with the CanadaPUG after Jeff had done a
presentation. I'd been seriously considering getting this app after
reading about it on the WOYP (Writing on Your Palm)group. It was quite
nice to win a copy of the app. My test was to try out tracking the
wedding planning and it worked well. I was impressed. It was wonderful
to mark my parent and children complete. Mind you though, presently, I'm
in a slump and not doing any Shadow related stuff at all. But, the
introduction of the desktop has got me excited. 

And thinking about what I can do next! Maybe outlining one of my short
stories.

Kudos to Jeff.

Sue



>Joe was getting married sometime in Oct, can't remember the 
>date now, so I 
>suspect he has been busy GTD :).
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 2:20am
Subject: RE: GtD

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Sue Thomas wrote:

> On that point, let me add that I used Shadow to keep track of items for
> my wedding (which was in August).

	Congratulations!!

> I'd won Shadow during a draw with the CanadaPUG after Jeff had done a
> presentation. I'd been seriously considering getting this app after
> reading about it on the WOYP (Writing on Your Palm)group. It was quite
> nice to win a copy of the app. My test was to try out tracking the

	I missed the last couple PUG's, too.. too busy working on the
desktop ;)

> to mark my parent and children complete. Mind you though, presently, I'm
> in a slump and not doing any Shadow related stuff at all. But, the
> introduction of the desktop has got me excited. 

	New list; "Things to do with Shadow" ;)

	We need to get that thread going again where people say what they
use Shadow for; from listing and allocating chores, to shopping lists, to
packing lists, to long and short term todos, to book and CD lists, to
projects at work, rumours, meeting notes, essays, notes while flying
across the country.. people do it all :)

> And thinking about what I can do next! Maybe outlining one of my short
> stories.

	Perfect! :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:08am
Subject: RE: "Open list" button?

>	Could do this. Or keep a table of contents file with links to
>other files, and then use built in search to do it :) (But this is
>clumbsy.. few peopel make themselves a TOC file, since its a lot of work).

I would like to throw out this idea...I think it would be nice to have a
preference that has shadow always open to a certain list - like the TOC.  I
have a TOC with a lot of links and I like to work from it to switch outlines
during various planning activities.  I never seem to be in the outline I
need when shadow opens, but if it always opened to the TOC outline then I
could jump right to the outline I need every time.  Just a thought...

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:48am
Subject: RE: "Open list" button?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 drumgirl313@y... wrote:

> I would like to throw out this idea...I think it would be nice to have a
> preference that has shadow always open to a certain list - like the TOC.  I
> have a TOC with a lot of links and I like to work from it to switch outlines
> during various planning activities.  I never seem to be in the outline I
> need when shadow opens, but if it always opened to the TOC outline then I
> could jump right to the outline I need every time.  Just a thought...

	I could perhaps make a pref for a list to load on open, but could
even make it easier.. if a file named TOC exists, always open it. *shrug*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

(sorry, I lost the thread)

Le 20 Oct 2001, à 20:36, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> > Jeff, please do put first 
> > words of
> > current item as note title in note window !!!! 

> 	Done.

Whoopeee !!!
Thanks


Minieditor : a tiny (N)ote button, please
(sorry if already asked and answered)

'cause now, it gets hard to enter a title, and then a note.
[N] could open the usual Note window, if not a mini-note-editor 
;-))


Thanks,




Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 0:28am
Subject: (N)ote Button

I like the idea of a little (N) button right below the (D) button on the mini editor.

> 
> Minieditor : a tiny (N)ote button, please
> (sorry if already asked and answered)
> 
> 'cause now, it gets hard to enter a title, and then a note.
> [N] could open the usual Note window, if not a mini-note-editor 
> ;-))
>

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:41am
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Jeff:

I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.

Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.

Norman


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > I must say I'm in the camp of those who would prefer "true" 
inline 
> > editing. I think those of us who use it "real-time" (.i.e. notes, 
in 
> > meetings) want the fastest data entry--inline delivers this.  
Those 
> > individuals who use Shadow for planning (generally when more time 
is 
> > available) would prefer the current method.
> 
> 	Have you seen the mini editor (or screenshots thereof) I added
> yesterday?
> 
> > Assuming the inline camp want it for initial fast data entry, can 
> > another input method be created?  My proposal (not sure if it can 
be 
> > done on the Palm)is to be able to import a outline fragment from 
a 
> > memo into a Shadow outline.  Of course, the outline fragment 
would 
> > need to follow existing import rules.  Also, importing a outline 
> > fragment from the clipboard directly into a Shadow outline would 
be 
> > preferable than saving to a file from memopad then importing 
directly 
> > into a Shadow list.
> 
> 	We can already import from memo to a new list. I was thinking 
of
> adding a merge-two-lists option, so as to be most flexible. (It 
would be
> useful for a wider variety of things then). So in theory you could 
import,
> then merge. Would that help?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:44am
Subject: Merging two list

Jeff:

I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.

Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.

Norman

From: Peggy Darling  <peggy_darling@y...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:15pm
Subject:

Vocabulary that is confusing for me:

1. Windiff
2. PUG
3. FWIW

Ideas that I vote for too:

1. A Table of Contents Preference to have Shadow
always open up to -TOC;  or another way of quickly
opening a list by finding a keyword  in the title
2.  Inline editing
3.  [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking



Response to your comments:

1.   I got a little worried this morning when I
couldn't get my
> deskpalm to start by clicking on the shortcut . . .
(after playing
> around for hours with all my outlines last night on
the 1523 beta).  
> But, I rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate
that, BTW, I can't
> help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work in
the first place?")

	*shrug*. "Windows" ;)

Yes, probably a Windows problem---but this morning the
same thing happened!  I am annoyed becasue I like to
have my PalmDT open after I log on to enter things as
I go, but it's a pain to get off line and reboot when
my internet speed here on a dirt road in Vermont is
only 33600 bps.  Interestingly, Shadow DT had no
problem starting and is currently open, so I just
started a new outline with the notes of things I am
culling this morning while online.  Very nice!

2.  :)  But you say filenames with spaces sometimes
wouldn't load into the desktop app? I'll have to try..
they should work okay..


Well, perhaps I should mention that the title of my HH
outline with the white spaces was also a bit that I
snipped from a website group and captured onto my
PalmDT memo, which I then cut and pasted into the HH
outline.  


3.  ) It did take me a little time to figure out how
to use the HH menu
> for each of my outlines (I have about 40 of them),
go to "list-then,
> preferences", and check "synch" to get my outlines
out of the Shadow
> folder and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I
realized that was the
> way to do it, I just opened the outlines on the
Shadow DT by clicking
> on them in the explorer window (which felt dangerous
because I could
> have theoretically gotten my outlines all
clobbered.)

	Clicking on them in explorer? What do you mean
exactly? (I'm picking on wording, since I need to know
what your'e when I write the manual ;)

Well, what I did was-I had the Shadow DT open and
clicked the "Open folder" icon which took me to a
window that said "Choose a shadow xml to open" and the
folder that was listed was the "Shadow i60" which had
nothing but last sync files in it at the time.  So I 
clicked the "Up arrow folder" icon to get a
windows-explorer list (maybe some people call this the
"My Computer" list) of folders in my DarlinP folder
and I noticed the "Shadow" folder up above the "Shadow
160" folder.  It was really by chance that I inspected
the contents of it, found the name of the list I
wanted, clicked on it, and voila! It loaded.  Before
this, I had no idea that my outlines were backed up
here...I just trusted that they were magically being
backed up somewhere in case I ever needed them.  (I
believe in magic, so that makes me a great First Grade
Teacher!)


4.)	The manual will explain that you need to activate
the sync flag for each list. I could reverse the flag
to be a "no sync" so by default everythign syncs.. but
I prefer to wait awhile and find out what peopel think
first, and get initial feedback from the world, etc.


I think the "no synch" default would be better for
people like me who had to do a little problem-solving
about it.  


5) I hope it helps you out! :)  The only problem I
find is keeping disciplined enough to keep everythign
in the PDA. If you keep  everythign in, it will help.
If you start to end up with a little pileof scraps of
paper, you better enter them in, or else you'll end up
with two sets of lists and go insane ;)


I have had my Visor for a little more than a year now,
and I am trying to keep more and more information in
my Visor.  This year, I am learning to use my Visor
all the time as I teach--to jot down anecdotal
observations of each student, the Students' quotes
that give me a window on what they are thinking and
that can drive my next teaching points.  Each student
is a Project (both literally and in my Shadow
Outlines)!  This is very valuable at Parent conference
time;  parents love to hear exactly what their child
did or said.  Also, the kids are very curious about my
Visor, which they used to think was my Game-Boy.  I
had a substitute last week and she said the children
kept telling her she had to use the Big Clock on her
Visor so she would know when to tell them that
Sustained Silent Reading was over.  She had no idea of
what a Visor even was.  Thankfully, a parent volunteer
was able to calm the children down and explain that
the substitute would be able to use the clock on the
wall to know what time to stop SSR.









=====
Peggy_darling@y..."Sorrow shared is halved and joy shared is doubled."             Native American Saying

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: RE: "Open list" button?

>	I could perhaps make a pref for a list to load on open, but could
>even make it easier.. if a file named TOC exists, always open it. *shrug*

That sounds cool!

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:36pm
Subject: RE: (unknown)

>Vocabulary that is confusing for me:
>
>1. Windiff

A program, I think

>2. PUG

My dog is a pug breed, but in this forum it stands for Palm User Group

>3. FWIW

For What It's Worth

>did or said.  Also, the kids are very curious about my
>Visor, which they used to think was my Game-Boy.  I

I have the opposite scenario.  I am the cool substitute teacher who carries
a palm.  They think their regular teacher needs to 'get with the program."
Also, I am curious as to how you are using shadow in the classroom - would
you care to give some more details about your setup?  Thanks!

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> Minieditor : a tiny (N)ote button, please
> (sorry if already asked and answered)
> 
> 'cause now, it gets hard to enter a title, and then a note.
> [N] could open the usual Note window, if not a mini-note-editor 
> ;-))

	Space is reserved for it, I just need to define it. IF you enter
text, and then hit N and the big note editor comes up, it must then return
to the mini editor to determine if you will save or not the item.

	I've thought about maybe if you hit the Note button in the mini
editor, you go to the note screen, and then when you hit Done it returns
to the big Detail screen (easier to build ;).

	I've also thought of a [N] toggle; you go to the mini editor (ME),
and then when you hit N it reverses, and the title text goes away and the
note text appears. When you hit [N] again, it untoggles and the title text
returns. Lets you edit both in place, and when you're done, just hit the
OK check and poof, done.

	But that might confuse people.. you hit N and your text goes away!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.
> 
> Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
> solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
> another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.

	My merge idea was to happen at the file selection screen; just
pick a list, then hit Merge, and pick another list, and then they
join.. first at the top, second at the bottom. Then you could open it, and
use cut/move or whatever to push the items around.

	Inserting at somepoint in the list.. hmm. Perhaps if I put a size
limit on merges it could be possible. A little palm trying to load 2 1MB
files would be rough ;)

	Hmm..

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:52pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Peggy Darling wrote:

> 1. Windiff

	Geek speak; a "diff" util is one that emits the differences
between two files. He's just being careful and recording differences,
rather than begin and end files.

> 2. PUG

	Palm User Group.

> 3. FWIW

	For What Its Worth.

> Ideas that I vote for too:
> 
> 1. A Table of Contents Preference to have Shadow
> always open up to -TOC;  or another way of quickly
> opening a list by finding a keyword  in the title

	How about automatic opening of a file named TOC if
available. (Save writing a pref ;)

> 2.  Inline editing

	Have you seen the mini editor? It seems a good compromise and
still maintains a lot of functionality.

> 3.  [T] and [D] boxes for quick linking

	I'll see what I can do..

		jeff

> 
> Response to your comments:
> 
> 1.   I got a little worried this morning when I
> couldn't get my
> > deskpalm to start by clicking on the shortcut . . .
> (after playing
> > around for hours with all my outlines last night on
> the 1523 beta).  
> > But, I rebooted and everything was cool. (I hate
> that, BTW, I can't
> > help but omen-ishly wonder, "Why didn't it work in
> the first place?")
> 
> 	*shrug*. "Windows" ;)
> 
> Yes, probably a Windows problem---but this morning the
> same thing happened!  I am annoyed becasue I like to
> have my PalmDT open after I log on to enter things as
> I go, but it's a pain to get off line and reboot when
> my internet speed here on a dirt road in Vermont is
> only 33600 bps.  Interestingly, Shadow DT had no
> problem starting and is currently open, so I just
> started a new outline with the notes of things I am
> culling this morning while online.  Very nice!
> 
> 2.  :)  But you say filenames with spaces sometimes
> wouldn't load into the desktop app? I'll have to try..
> they should work okay..
> 
> 
> Well, perhaps I should mention that the title of my HH
> outline with the white spaces was also a bit that I
> snipped from a website group and captured onto my
> PalmDT memo, which I then cut and pasted into the HH
> outline.  
> 
> 
> 3.  ) It did take me a little time to figure out how
> to use the HH menu
> > for each of my outlines (I have about 40 of them),
> go to "list-then,
> > preferences", and check "synch" to get my outlines
> out of the Shadow
> > folder and into the Shadow 160 folder.  Until I
> realized that was the
> > way to do it, I just opened the outlines on the
> Shadow DT by clicking
> > on them in the explorer window (which felt dangerous
> because I could
> > have theoretically gotten my outlines all
> clobbered.)
> 
> 	Clicking on them in explorer? What do you mean
> exactly? (I'm picking on wording, since I need to know
> what your'e when I write the manual ;)
> 
> Well, what I did was-I had the Shadow DT open and
> clicked the "Open folder" icon which took me to a
> window that said "Choose a shadow xml to open" and the
> folder that was listed was the "Shadow i60" which had
> nothing but last sync files in it at the time.  So I 
> clicked the "Up arrow folder" icon to get a
> windows-explorer list (maybe some people call this the
> "My Computer" list) of folders in my DarlinP folder
> and I noticed the "Shadow" folder up above the "Shadow
> 160" folder.  It was really by chance that I inspected
> the contents of it, found the name of the list I
> wanted, clicked on it, and voila! It loaded.  Before
> this, I had no idea that my outlines were backed up
> here...I just trusted that they were magically being
> backed up somewhere in case I ever needed them.  (I
> believe in magic, so that makes me a great First Grade
> Teacher!)
> 
> 
> 4.)	The manual will explain that you need to activate
> the sync flag for each list. I could reverse the flag
> to be a "no sync" so by default everythign syncs.. but
> I prefer to wait awhile and find out what peopel think
> first, and get initial feedback from the world, etc.
> 
> 
> I think the "no synch" default would be better for
> people like me who had to do a little problem-solving
> about it.  
> 
> 
> 5) I hope it helps you out! :)  The only problem I
> find is keeping disciplined enough to keep everythign
> in the PDA. If you keep  everythign in, it will help.
> If you start to end up with a little pileof scraps of
> paper, you better enter them in, or else you'll end up
> with two sets of lists and go insane ;)
> 
> 
> I have had my Visor for a little more than a year now,
> and I am trying to keep more and more information in
> my Visor.  This year, I am learning to use my Visor
> all the time as I teach--to jot down anecdotal
> observations of each student, the Students' quotes
> that give me a window on what they are thinking and
> that can drive my next teaching points.  Each student
> is a Project (both literally and in my Shadow
> Outlines)!  This is very valuable at Parent conference
> time;  parents love to hear exactly what their child
> did or said.  Also, the kids are very curious about my
> Visor, which they used to think was my Game-Boy.  I
> had a substitute last week and she said the children
> kept telling her she had to use the Big Clock on her
> Visor so she would know when to tell them that
> Sustained Silent Reading was over.  She had no idea of
> what a Visor even was.  Thankfully, a parent volunteer
> was able to calm the children down and explain that
> the substitute would be able to use the clock on the
> wall to know what time to stop SSR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Peggy_darling@y..."Sorrow shared is halved and joy shared is doubled."             Native American Saying
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 10:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Le 21 Oct 2001, à 11:44, Jeff Mitchell a écrit:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> 	Space is reserved for it,

I guessed it !

> 	I've thought about maybe if you hit the Note button in the mini
> editor, you go to the note screen, 

Good...

>and then when you hit Done it returns
> to the big Detail screen

Less good :
I would prefer : "return to outline view" (or return to the Mini Editor in case 
of an inline editing with some kind of "next" feature).

I know it's already like this in Sh, but I never enjoy it:

When you write a bunch in Sh you have to go thru the five step sequence 
for each "paragraph" :

Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to 
Details -> Return to list


I would prefer a four step "circular process" :
Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to list
(if not some three step system for : 
Write item label -> Write note text -> Next !!)

> 	I've also thought of a [N] toggle; you go to the mini editor (ME),
> and then when you hit N it reverses, and the title text goes away and the
> note text appears. When you hit [N] again, it untoggles and the title text
> returns. Lets you edit both in place, and when you're done, just hit the
> OK check and poof, done.

Ouch ;-) 
That would have been my first idea (comes close to the three step 
sequence above) : but from time to time you need full screen for note 
editing, and you don't want to go and change your prefs each time.

So, even if less neat, it is maybe wiser to stick to the current note 
window.....

... and less work ;-)



Jacques Turbé

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 6:05pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

on 10/21/01 9:52 am, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Peggy Darling wrote:
> 
>> 1. Windiff
> 
> Geek speak; a "diff" util is one that emits the differences
> between two files. He's just being careful and recording differences,
> rather than begin and end files.
> 
>> 2. PUG
> 
> Palm User Group.
> 
>> 3. FWIW
> 
> For What Its Worth.
> 
>> Ideas that I vote for too:
>> 
>> 1. A Table of Contents Preference to have Shadow
>> always open up to -TOC;  or another way of quickly
>> opening a list by finding a keyword  in the title
> 
> How about automatic opening of a file named TOC if
> available. (Save writing a pref ;)
> 

What would this do to users of something like McPhling, where they switch
back and forth between programs? Would this mean that every time you go back
to Shadow that you would be in the TOC instead of the last outline you were
using? That seems like a loss of functionality...

If you can differentiate between launching Shadow from the Launcher and
switching to it, then I can see this being useful. Go to the TOC if
launching, go back to where you were if switching.

Just my two cents,
Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:02pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Hi Jeff:

I hope you consider my suggestion of merging at some specific point 
in the list.  I believe putting a size restriction on the Palm would 
be fine.  If someone really needs to merge a large amount of data 
they can do it on the desktop.  This feature might also pacify (at 
least temporarily) those wanting inter-list linking if they don't 
mind duplicating data.  What ya think?

Norm



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > I have not seen the "mini-window" version.  I will give it a try.
> > 
> > Can you explain what you have in mind in a "merge two list" 
> > solution?  Will it allow me to select a node in one list and have 
> > another list inserted at that point?  If so, this will be helpful.
> 
> 	My merge idea was to happen at the file selection screen; just
> pick a list, then hit Merge, and pick another list, and then they
> join.. first at the top, second at the bottom. Then you could open 
it, and
> use cut/move or whatever to push the items around.
> 
> 	Inserting at somepoint in the list.. hmm. Perhaps if I put a 
size
> limit on merges it could be possible. A little palm trying to load 
2 1MB
> files would be rough ;)
> 
> 	Hmm..
> 
> 		Jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:21pm
Subject: Desktop Usability/In-Line editing

Jeff:

I apologize if this discussion/suggestion is old, but I have not seen 
it.  Why did you opt for the panel display on the desktop?  The 
current GUI slows me *way* down because it forces you to move the 
mouse too much.  First, I have to select a item then move my mouse 
over to the other panel to make any changes to that item.  Next, I 
have to move my mouse back to the navigation panel, select another 
node and then move back to the edit panel.

Suggestion(s):

1) Here is where I think the mini-window concept (as discuss in other 
threads) would work well.  I would like the items in the navigation 
panel to be editable (like Windows Explorer file browser).

2) Please add some shortcut operations.  For instance, if I have a 
item selected and hit "Tab" it would "indent" the item--"backspace" 
would "outdent" the item.  Of course, others (.eg drag&drop) could be 
added later.

Norman

From: samir.kasme@s...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:44pm
Subject: Re: "Open list" button?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 samir.kasme@s... wrote:
> 
> > How about another way of quickly opening a list by finding a 
keyword 
> > in the title, example: 
> 
> 	Could do this. Or keep a table of contents file with links to
> other files, and then use built in search to do it :) (But this is
> clumbsy.. few peopel make themselves a TOC file, since its a lot of 
work).
> 
> 	Good idea.
> 
> > If I know exactly the name of the list that I want (which I 
usually 
> > do), wouldn't it be so much faster to push an "open list" 
or "find 
> > list" button, and to write in the first letters of the title. 
> > I can't use the available find features for that: the Shadow find 
> > only looks wihtin a particular list, and the global Find (big 
> > disappointment) does not find words in a list's title..
> 
> 	Hmm, good point. I could try and think of a way of supporting
> search to filename. Would that be sufficient?

Well, a global find supporting Shadow list titles would be good, 
although it would probably match several files when using common 
keywords. You'd have then slightly more moves than if you could write 
in the title, with the file opening directly as a result:

Tap Find button, Write keyword, (Get list of results), Select result 
and tap, Open file

as opposed to:

Tap "open list button", Write first letters of title, Open file

The other idea of opening a TOC file sounds cool... except that I 
don't have a TOC file, it would be a lot of work to maintain as you 
say. I suppose it could work for people with fewer, long files, but 
if you have many short files like me, then the TOC takes much more 
than one screen, and you'd have to scroll down and read through all 
your filenames, which, again, makes the process longer.

Thanks for considering all these wishes, and for your professionalism 
when bringing this all together

Samir

From: keho@c...
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 10:41pm
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

Still having the ToDo sort problem, but I have come up with a half 
decent workaround.  Datebk4 has an option called "Syncsort" which, 
when enabled, will resort the DateBook and ToDo databases after 
performing a hotsync operation.  This will at least correct the 
sorting problem whenever I do a hotsync.  After adding ToDo links in 
Shadow and prior to my next hotsync, however, the ToDo entries will 
still not be sorted properly.

It is interesting that the two of us who reported this problem are 
both using a Palm m505 running OS 4.x.  Specifically, I'm running 
4.01.  Anyone else out there running OS 4.x with Shadow and able to 
link and sort ToDo's properly?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., keho@c... wrote:
> >>Which version of Shadow are you using? 
> 1.5.14
> 
> >>Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> I've disabled all of my hacks.  I've also wiped all apps and data 
> from RAM (still stuff on the SD card and a few things in flash) and 
> just put the Shadow prc and pdb files back.  Still getting the same 
> problem with the ToDo sorting.  Tried to think of anything else 
that 
> would affect sorting and couldn't come up with anything.
> 
> Any other thoughts?
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:
> > 
> > > case).  In the ToDo application, my default sort order 
> is "Category, 
> > > Priority".  When I view my to do's in Datebk4, they are also 
> sorted 
> > > by Category then Priority, as DB4 uses the sort order specified 
> in 
> > > the Palm ToDo application.  
> > 
> > 	Which version of Shadow are you using? Since you can do link
> > categories, you're likely in 1.5.14, and all the Shadows since 
way 
> back
> > (1.3.?) have made sure to use the proper sort ordering. (If not 
> earlier
> > versions). If Shadow didn't sort it correctly, a lot of people 
> would be
> > after me ;)
> > 
> > 	Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Sun Oct 21, 2001 3:50pm
Subject: Inline editor bug...

Jeff,
Just noticed if you /P (paste) text into the inline editor the screen does not get redrawn correctly.  Everything that was under the /Command box is 'blank'.

From: jacques@t...
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 5:01am
Subject: (Réacheminé) Re: Re: "Open list" button?

Hello Samir,

Le 21 Oct 2001, à 21:44, samir.kasme@s... a écrit:

> Well, a global find supporting Shadow list titles would be good, 

Sure !

What if (when times come) something like Memoleaf does for memos: 
either title, either body (ie : list content). It would keep (say) the last ten 
search entries...

or 

a "ShadowWiki" hack (like PalmWiki for memos): any text (with some 
special code appended)  in any editable field in any app, when tapped 
searches for the same text in a Shadow list, and, if possible opens the list 
with the right item selected ;-)

(when times come) 


But:

With not any new feature, you can already do a *find* with a word you 
know is near the item you are looking for in a Shadow list: Shadow opens 
the list (expanded as needed) at the right place. I use it quite often for big 
lists. It is already faster than tap for the list in Shadow, and then manually 
navigate in the list ! (FinfIgnorehack speeds it).

My 2 ... ;-)



Jacques Turbé
___________________________
AVM! http://avm.free.fr

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 11:53am
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> I would prefer : "return to outline view" (or return to the Mini
> Editor in case of an inline editing with some kind of "next" feature).
> 
> I know it's already like this in Sh, but I never enjoy it:
> 
> When you write a bunch in Sh you have to go thru the five step sequence 
> for each "paragraph" :
> 
> Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to 
> Details -> Return to list

	If oyu enter the note window from details, you return to
details. If you enter it from the list, you return to the list. Makes
sense :)

> I would prefer a four step "circular process" :
> Write item label -> Tap for Note window -> Write note text -> Return to list
> (if not some three step system for : 
> Write item label -> Write note text -> Next !!)

	So you always write complete title text, and then a note, and
don't have to go back to details? Hmmrf :) Don't know how to improve this
without irritating a lot of people :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:00pm
Subject: Re: (unknown)

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Ken Scott wrote:

> back and forth between programs? Would this mean that every time you
> go back to Shadow that you would be in the TOC instead of the last
> outline you were using? That seems like a loss of functionality...

	Not a loss; if you used the special TOC file, or pick it to be TOC
or whathaveyou, then its your bidniz ;)

> If you can differentiate between launching Shadow from the Launcher and
> switching to it, then I can see this being useful. Go to the TOC if
> launching, go back to where you were if switching.

	Generally you can't tell the difference. If its a normal launch
its a normal launch. Other kinds are for Finds, or to load specific
databases.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I hope you consider my suggestion of merging at some specific point 
> in the list.  I believe putting a size restriction on the Palm would 
> be fine.  If someone really needs to merge a large amount of data 
> they can do it on the desktop.  This feature might also pacify (at 
> least temporarily) those wanting inter-list linking if they don't 
> mind duplicating data.  What ya think?

	Its been on my todo awhile; but I doubt I'll have a chance to put
it in in the next couple of weeks.. I think my testers need a break and we
need to launch in about a week.. so generally we're in featurelock. Some
bug fixes, working on manuals, etc, are the order of the day for
awhile. Then after desktop and 1.6.0 go out, its time to fix international
characters in the desktop, and then work on the Mac release..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:08pm
Subject: Re: Desktop Usability/In-Line editing

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I apologize if this discussion/suggestion is old, but I have not seen 
> it.  Why did you opt for the panel display on the desktop?  The 
> current GUI slows me *way* down because it forces you to move the 
> mouse too much.  First, I have to select a item then move my mouse 
> over to the other panel to make any changes to that item.  Next, I 
> have to move my mouse back to the navigation panel, select another 
> node and then move back to the edit panel.

	I opted for the current display as a "general editor mode" in the
name of getting it done. I started way back on a fancy schmancy desktop
with all sorts of features. After a couple of months, I tossed it, because
it was taking too long. I needed to get something out and done, so I went
for simple. I can go for elegant later ;) (And in general, I like to get
something working and stable out the door, so I can gather feedback, and
then know what direction everyone wants me to go in).

	That said, I expect to have at least 3 modes.. a project mode, a
text writing mode, and a general mode. Each will be specialized to its
purpose.

> 1) Here is where I think the mini-window concept (as discuss in other 
> threads) would work well.  I would like the items in the navigation 
> panel to be editable (like Windows Explorer file browser).

	Just a matter of time. ie: You coudl wait another couple months to
have the desktop at all, if I kept adding features. Instead, you cna have
it early, make comments, and get something better in a couple months ;)

	I plan on making the tree's text editable in-tree, have checkboxes
and priorities and such in the tree for visibility, and all the usual
bells and whistles.

> 2) Please add some shortcut operations.  For instance, if I have a 
> item selected and hit "Tab" it would "indent" the item--"backspace" 
> would "outdent" the item.  Of course, others (.eg drag&drop) could be 
> added later.

	"Moving" of items will go in in a couple of weeks. The conduit
understands it more or less, but its not well tested and probably will
have some bugs. Once the current stuff is out and everyone is happy, I'll
add drag and drop and push up down left right etc etc :) (Actually, a lot
of it is nearly built.. its just a matter of completing the gUI changes
and testing the conduit to ensure it works).

	Fear not; 1.6.0 and desktop aren't the end; they are the beginning
of a newer subsystem and I expect they'll grow pretty quickly..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> Still having the ToDo sort problem, but I have come up with a half 
> decent workaround.  Datebk4 has an option called "Syncsort" which, 
> when enabled, will resort the DateBook and ToDo databases after 
> performing a hotsync operation.  This will at least correct the 
> sorting problem whenever I do a hotsync.  After adding ToDo links in 
> Shadow and prior to my next hotsync, however, the ToDo entries will 
> still not be sorted properly.
> 
> It is interesting that the two of us who reported this problem are 
> both using a Palm m505 running OS 4.x.  Specifically, I'm running 
> 4.01.  Anyone else out there running OS 4.x with Shadow and able to 
> link and sort ToDo's properly?

	It is curious; other people have mentioned they have no problem on
OS4.x, I think. Certainly, one lad said it only happened to him *once*.
Perhaps a setting in one of the todo apps causes the problem?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 22, 2001 0:18pm
Subject: Re: Inline editor bug...

On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> Just noticed if you /P (paste) text into the inline