From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 6:03pm
Subject: Palmtop Pro Workshop part 2

For details, see:

	http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/

Essentially, the fine lads over at Palmtop-Pro are about to publish the
second part in their Shadow Plan workshop. This entry is 10 pages in the
upcoming issue (wow!), and looks to be a very fine tutorial on
linking. The first part is still available in back issues for those who
missed it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Fay, Randy  <randy@t...>
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 8:23pm
Subject: No XML Files?

[Sorry - seem to have sent this to skeleton before]

I have 1.5.14 and have no .xml files in my desktop directory, even
though the .pdb's are there (and they're being synch'd/backed up
correctly, it appears).

How do I get the .xml's?

Thanks!
-Randy

-- 
Randy Fay
randy.fay@s...
303.409.8813

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 8:31pm
Subject: Re: No XML Files?

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, Fay, Randy wrote:

> [Sorry - seem to have sent this to skeleton before]

	Which is fine, since that is also a support mailing list. A
response was made there.

	Essentially, you need to use the latest Windows Enhanced Edition
installer to set up the conduit.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: david.laing@e...
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 8:39pm
Subject: Re: How to import existing lists?

Jeff,
Thanks, as ever, for your swift response!
> There should be a Palm Backup directory for .pdb files; if you
> found the ShadowPlan directory, go back up one level, and find the 
Backup
> directory. It shoudl contain a pile of ShadP-*.pdb files, one for 
each of
> your lists. 

I should have mentioned that I'd already looked in backup, and not 
found my lists there - ONLY in xml format in the shadow directory.  
Any ideas?  Maybe I mis-set a preference somewhere that prevented the 
lists being backed up?  Anyway, I can re-enter the data if I need to 
(from the xml files), but it would be good to know how this 
happened...

Thanks in advance for your time.
David

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 8:46pm
Subject: Re: Re: How to import existing lists?

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 david.laing@e... wrote:

> I should have mentioned that I'd already looked in backup, and not 
> found my lists there - ONLY in xml format in the shadow directory.  
> Any ideas?  Maybe I mis-set a preference somewhere that prevented the 
> lists being backed up?  Anyway, I can re-enter the data if I need to 
> (from the xml files), but it would be good to know how this 
> happened...

	Eeep!

	Shadow requests hotsync manager to back up the files,
always. There is no way to tell Shadow not to do this (unless you go and
mess with the files yourself, and then its your problem ;)  If your'e
using any halfway recent Shadow and Hotsync Manager (say Shadow in the
last 6mo or more, or Hotsync Manager 3.x or later) and you should be fine. 

	Hotsync Manager has been known to delete backups for no reason (it
did it to me a few weeks ago :/), but I can't do anything about this.

	If all you have is the XML, you'll need to wait for the desktop
application. The XML has changed, but I think the old XML will still load
into the desktop app and get you the absolute basics (text).  The desktop
application is due out in about 2-3 weeks, though if you're willign to
take the risks, you could join shadow-test and try out an alpha..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: F&B Sachs  <rsachs@b...>
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 9:55pm
Subject: Re: Palmtop Pro Workshop part 2

Unfortunately, I don't read German and I couldn't find an English language version. Can you point me in the right direction?  Thanks.  Bob Sachs
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:03 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Palmtop Pro Workshop part 2



  For details, see:

        http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/

  Essentially, the fine lads over at Palmtop-Pro are about to publish the
  second part in their Shadow Plan workshop. This entry is 10 pages in the
  upcoming issue (wow!), and looks to be a very fine tutorial on
  linking. The first part is still available in back issues for those who
  missed it.

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Lux Natura  <luxnatura@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Palmtop Pro Workshop part 2

--On Thursday, October 11, 2001 17:55:42 -0400 F&B Sachs <rsachs@b...> wrote:

> Unfortunately, I don't read German and I couldn't find an English language version. Can you point me in the right direction?  Thanks.  Bob Sachs

My wife's German and I'd ask her to translate it for me, but anything
technical would take a serious bribe. :-)

-lux

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 11, 2001 11:11pm
Subject: Re: Palmtop Pro Workshop part 2

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001, F&B Sachs wrote:

> Unfortunately, I don't read German and I couldn't find an English
> language version. Can you point me in the right direction?  Thanks.  
> Bob Sachs

	This is a German magazine, so no English translation :/ (I wish
their was an English magazine that would do such in depth coverage of an
application gratis.. I'd have to pay big money to get it done here where I
can read it :P)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: m_harlow@v...
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:01am
Subject: Templates for task lists

I'm in advertising so I often have multiple projects with the same 
list of tasks.  Is there a way to save templates like the steps in a 
TV spot so that I can import them every time I need to do a TV spot?

Thanks,
Matt Harlow

From: m_harlow@v...
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:11am
Subject: Project Management Tips

I'm new to ShadowPlan.  How do other users use it as a project 
manager?

Thanks,
Matt Harlow

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:46am
Subject: Re: Templates for task lists

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 m_harlow@v... wrote:

> I'm in advertising so I often have multiple projects with the same 
> list of tasks.  Is there a way to save templates like the steps in a 
> TV spot so that I can import them every time I need to do a TV spot?

	Until I add a more formal way, the best way is to do one of these:

1) Make yourself a list as a template. When you need to use it, use the
Duplicate operation (from the file selection screen) to copy it to
whatever permanent list you want.

2) Keep a template list with various items in it. When you need them, you
can use the copy/paste operations.. things like Copy+Uncheck can be very
useful.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 3:48am
Subject: Re: Project Management Tips

Let me know if you don't get any responses; Since I write the
software, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing from me ;) If no one else
responds, I'll give you my take on things. 

	Basicly though, I keep evertything in Shadow (I wrote it, after
all ;), and as items draw near I push them into Todo or Datebook via
linking. That way they show up in Outlook or Palm Desktop (whichever you
use), and can be alarmed and such. I use a list per major project, with
various todo rollup lists. I keep Table-of-Content type lists with links
to other lists, so as to enable easy grouping of related projects. I keep
resources and assignment in Note fields as well as Address links.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kenneth S. Rhee  <polymath@m...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 11:44am
Subject: RE: Project Management Tips

The rectangle on the top left corner still remains.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 11:48 PM
> To: m_harlow@v...
> Cc: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Project Management Tips
> 
> 
> 
> 	Let me know if you don't get any responses; Since I 
> write the software, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing from 
> me ;) If no one else responds, I'll give you my take on things. 
> 
> 	Basicly though, I keep evertything in Shadow (I wrote 
> it, after all ;), and as items draw near I push them into 
> Todo or Datebook via linking. That way they show up in 
> Outlook or Palm Desktop (whichever you use), and can be 
> alarmed and such. I use a list per major project, with 
> various todo rollup lists. I keep Table-of-Content type lists 
> with links to other lists, so as to enable easy grouping of 
> related projects. I keep resources and assignment in Note 
> fields as well as Address links.
> 
> 		Jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
> own micro circuits without permission from 'Master Control 
> Program'. I mean, sending *ME* down here to play games.... 
> Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 4:28pm
Subject: RE: Project Management Tips

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, Kenneth S. Rhee wrote:

> The rectangle on the top left corner still remains.

	Keep this in shadow-test.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 7:57pm
Subject: RE: Project Management Tips

Welcome to ShadowPlan!

FWIW, I have......

1.  Two "Table of Contents" lists.  One is for personal and one is for professional projects.  These lists basically are the
"project titles" and link to.....
2.  Multiple lists: one for each project.  When I enter the tasks for each project, I try to go ahead and link to todo or
datebook as appropriate.
3.  On a daily basis, I use todo and datebook to manage my work.
4.  On a weekly basis, I review all projects, adding new tasks, list maintenance.
5.  Each project I manage has similar steps that I want included, i.e., purpose, goal, manager, evaluation, etc.  I created a
"blank" list with these items and store as a "template."  When I open a new project list, I copy these items into the new list.
6.  I do have several miscellaneous lists for items that don't fit into a project, i.e., shopping lists, websites to visit, etc.

Good luck!
Neal

-----Original Message-----
From: m_harlow@v...
[mailto:m_harlow@v...]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 5:12 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Project Management Tips


I'm new to ShadowPlan.  How do other users use it as a project
manager?

Thanks,
Matt Harlow



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 13, 2001 8:54pm
Subject: Expert mode button bar?

This has come up a few times. Do you want icon button bar instead
of text buttons? (I'm thinkign a pref for this, so that by default text
button are used, but icon buttons and more of them if you are a Shadow
regular user).

	Current front panel buttons are:

	New, Child, Details, Done, Search, Trash

	I'm thinking of exprt button bar that has buttons for each of
these, plus at least 5 more:

	Icon for "New Parent". When you hit this, you create a new item at
a higher level, below (on-screen) them item currently selected. The idea
being I want to create this list:

A
	1
B

	Write "A". New-child. "1". New-parent. "B". Done!

	Normally, I have to "A". New-child. "1". Select "A". New Sibling.

	I'd like to avoid the selection part :)

	Also, 4 buttons for "push up", "push down", "push left", "push
right".

	Is this sort of button bar universally desirable? What options
would you prefer in addition to, or instead of, these?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: maclover88  <maclover88@m...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 2:18am
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

Jeff,

The icon extra buttons sound great.
Would the export allow us to export the selected item to a different list?
If so how about a choice between leaving the item in the current list as
well as the destination list (like a copy paste) or deleating from the
current list (like a cut and paste).
I find that as I am arranging my lists, cut (or copy paste) is a lot of work
to send an item to a different list. It would be great to be able to stay in
the list I'm in and send stuff to my other lists in a submenu which is I
hope what you mean by export (of course in addition to exporting to the
memo, to do and appt book).

The other request I have is for there to be a vertical scroll bar along the
right edge. I really like having the control in addition to the page up and
down buttons. On my Visor this appears when I am in my App window in the ALL
view.

Thanks,
Jim

<Is this sort of button bar universally desirable? What options
would you prefer in addition to, or instead of, these?>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 2:43am
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

> The icon extra buttons sound great.

	We'll see, then :)

> Would the export allow us to export the selected item to a different list?

	Did I mention export in there somewhere, or are you coming in from
the side? ;)

	It has long been on my todo list to add a "send to" function, to
let you send an item (or maybe the clipboard?) to another list. A easy way
to save close/open/paste.

> If so how about a choice between leaving the item in the current list as
> well as the destination list (like a copy paste) or deleating from the
> current list (like a cut and paste).

	If I make it a "send clip to ..." option, it'd be fine. Clear the
clip, copy whatever you want (multiple items even, as usual), and then
"send to".

> The other request I have is for there to be a vertical scroll bar
> along the right edge. I really like having the control in addition to
> the page up and down buttons. On my Visor this appears when I am in my
> App window in the ALL view.

	Its also on my todo list; so far, whenever I've done polls, no one
has wanted them since they'd take away from screen space. But in general,
I think they'd be handy in many cases when you just want to zip around
quick. I'll likely add it in as a list pref, so that you can have it or
not as you see fit, on a list by list basis. Not sure when I'll add it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 3:54am
Subject: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

In general, everything I write for Palm works on OS 3.0 and later,
and usually on Palm OS 2.0 and later too (even Shadow, though I don't
advertise it, works pretty well on 2.x though not perfectly).

	How many people are still using OS 3.0 or OS 3.1?

	Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them? Is it
3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).

	Need to know..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David R. Seibert  <davidrseibert@p...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 4:54am
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).
> 
I'm still up. Actually, 3.5.2H1.5 was released for the Prism and the
Platinum on August 30. I'm going to bed now; goodnight.

David R. Seibert
davidrseibert@p...

From: maclover88  <maclover88@m...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 5:25am
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

Mine has 3.1H2
Jim

>Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them? Is it
>3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).

From: m_harlow@v...
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 1:52pm
Subject: Advertising Project Magement system

I'm still only playing with the demo version of shadow plan but I 
think I'm hooked!  Here's the system I've put together so far:

1) I have a list called templates with templates of a parent and 
children for each type of project I normally do.  Print ad, TV spot, 
etc.

2) I have made a list for each of my clients.  I cut and paste the 
template items into a client and rename them.  So I might cut out a 
print ad from template and paste it in a bank client then name it 
mortgage ad.  I then link mortgage ad to my Palm task list so that it 
can show up there and hotsync to Outlook.

3) I sure the children for subtasks like copy, layout, photos, client 
OK, etc.

4) Layout wise I'm using custom because I love the link off/on box 
with the little T in it to send things to task list without having to 
go there.

OK there's a brief discription of my system.  What do you experienced 
users think of it?

Also I have some questions/potential software refinement ideas:

a) Is there a way to follow a link back from the Palm to do list if 
you were not just in ShadowPlan?  If not that would be a great 
feature/Palm todo hack.

b) How do you sort out tasks that are due today out of 20 different 
lists without opening and closing them all?  

Here's another great feature idea for ShadowPlan.  What if the date 
on a parent could be driven by the children under it.  Each parent 
could take on the date of the earliest child needing attention.  Then 
if parents were all linked to the palm todo (or collapsed in 
shadowplan) then the parent listing would make it apparent which 
parents needed to be opened up and dealt with.

Or, here's another idea!  What if shadow plan generated a link to the 
palm to do list on the date any item was due (or x days before 
that).  That way an entire project could be mapped out in ShadowPlan 
and it would proactively request attention for it's individual tasks.

c) I'm still playing with filters and sorting.  Is there a way I can 
use them to make the system I outlined above more practical or 
powerful?

Thanks for you help and advice.  And, Jeff, thanks for the great 
software at an affordable price.

Matt Harlow

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 8:30pm
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

At 16:54 13/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Do you want icon button bar instead
>of text buttons?

Yes !!!!

>Icon for "New Parent"?

I don't care so much (but maybe need to taste to be convinced)

>         Also, 4 buttons for "push up", "push down",

For those who still have problesms with drags ??

>"push left", "push right".

Waste of real estate (or other feature) : space backspace is so easy !!

I would like (as in Plucker) customizable features for buttons (either soft 
or (why not ?) hard): you would pick your choice for each in a drop down 
list. Choices could be any menu item or c-f-v drop down lists.

I know that instead of four "Push..." I would often select "Zoom inside", 
"unzoom", "expand memos", "collapse memos" ;-)

Just my 2 .....


Jacques

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 4:24pm
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

> Mine has 3.1H2
> 
> >Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them? Is it
> >3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).

	3.1H2. I wonder what the last "2" means. "H" means Handspring and
implies USB, etc. Hmm.

	Ah well. I built some code to work around problems in 3.0 and 3.1,
just to be sure :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 4:32pm
Subject: Re: Advertising Project Magement system

On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 m_harlow@v... wrote:

> a) Is there a way to follow a link back from the Palm to do list if 
> you were not just in ShadowPlan?  If not that would be a great 
> feature/Palm todo hack.

	There is LinkerHack which AFAIK is the only way to do this. I
can't edit the other programs of course, and they're in control, so I
cannot directly build a way to jump back unless you were just in
Shadow. However, LinkerHack does an amazing job of building links into
prorgams that do not do links themselves. Amazing!

> b) How do you sort out tasks that are due today out of 20 different 
> lists without opening and closing them all?  

	Thats a tough one. I have been considering building two tools to
handle this:

1) A palm tool that you invoke from the Shadow file selection screen.
Check off which lists to scan, and have Shadow generate a new list
containing duplicates of the items that match the search criterion you
specify. Sort of a brute force multi-list scanner. Need to think about how
to do this well, fast, and usably.

2) The desktop application runs on the desktop, which has the horsepower
to open piles of lists no problem, unlike the Palm. So I might build a
multi-list filter into the desktop application. Sort of like a "Find me
all the items that atch this..." and the desktop app shows you a window of
matches, and lets you click on one to load the corresponding list.

Option (2) Sounds a lot more plausible, but being on the desktop means it
won't be available "all the time" (for those on the road), and means you
need to have the desktop (which Unix people won't have for awhile, for
instance, and the desktop will likely be a very cheap but extra cost
option). (I'll likely charge $7.99 extra for the desktop, or something,
due to the massive cost to build it and fund its growth. Not yet nailed
down.)

	*shrug*. Toughie :/

> Here's another great feature idea for ShadowPlan.  What if the date 
> on a parent could be driven by the children under it.  Each parent 
> could take on the date of the earliest child needing attention.  Then 
> if parents were all linked to the palm todo (or collapsed in 
> shadowplan) then the parent listing would make it apparent which 
> parents needed to be opened up and dealt with.

	A vote; anyone want this? A pref that when set, makes the parent
always pick up the earliest dates from its children? (earliest target and
start, latest finish, I guess)

> that).  That way an entire project could be mapped out in ShadowPlan 
> and it would proactively request attention for it's individual tasks.

	That could get messy for people with large lists. I like to leave
links to people to set.. not automatic. *shrug*

> c) I'm still playing with filters and sorting.  Is there a way I can 
> use them to make the system I outlined above more practical or 
> powerful?

	If you think of something, let me know. I will eventually be
adding customizable filters to make things more powerful for you.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 4:37pm
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> Yes !!!!

	hehe :)

> >Icon for "New Parent"?
> I don't care so much (but maybe need to taste to be convinced)

	I sort of like it, but we'll see. Easily taken out and replaced
with something else. It was something I always missed from my Newton days
:)

> >         Also, 4 buttons for "push up", "push down",
> For those who still have problesms with drags ??

	Yep, and for those who just want an easy way to quickly do it
repeatedly withotu thinking at all. (Admittedly, my drag system is
powerful but a tad confusing to people).

> >"push left", "push right".
> Waste of real estate (or other feature) : space backspace is so easy !!

	Few peopel read the manual to know these. This is an expert bar,
granted, but I envision a lot of people using it because it looks good,
and because its easier to use.

	See screenshot..

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/buttonbar1.gif

> I would like (as in Plucker) customizable features for buttons (either soft 
> or (why not ?) hard): you would pick your choice for each in a drop down 
> list. Choices could be any menu item or c-f-v drop down lists.

	*eep* I knew you'd want this ;) I may build it later, but for now
I want maximum punch for the work, so I want most commonly desirable
options. A customize button bar system is rough, since it means I need to
draw 40 little icons in both colour and black and white, and build a UI to
add/remove them, and handle their operation and all that. Its a good (way
cool) idea, but its a lot of work :)

> I know that instead of four "Push..." I would often select "Zoom inside", 
> "unzoom", "expand memos", "collapse memos" ;-)

	Really? I wouldn't have guessed that ;) (Zoom and Unzoom already
available in the [V] menu is two taps. Do you zoom that much?) And
expanding memos and such? Really? See how far off I am :)

	I am tempted to have a standard button bar as screenshoted above,
and a second customizable bar.. if you want a pile of options, build your
own bar and place it above the normal one. Hmm...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: polly_q@y...
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 4:57pm
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

Hi Jeff--

     My black & white Visor uses Palm OS 3.1H2.

--PollyQ

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	In general, everything I write for Palm works on OS 3.0 and 
later,
> and usually on Palm OS 2.0 and later too (even Shadow, though I 
don't
> advertise it, works pretty well on 2.x though not perfectly).
> 
> 	How many people are still using OS 3.0 or OS 3.1?
> 
> 	Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them? 
Is it
> 3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).
> 
> 	Need to know..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:37pm
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

Personally I'd like to see the scroll bar as a global Shadow 
preference. I figure people will want to use it all the time or not 
at all...at least I know that's how I'd be; I'd use it all the time.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:
> > The other request I have is for there to be a vertical scroll bar
> > along the right edge. I really like having the control in 
addition to
> > the page up and down buttons. On my Visor this appears when I am 
in my
> > App window in the ALL view.
> 
> 	Its also on my todo list; so far, whenever I've done polls, 
no one
> has wanted them since they'd take away from screen space. But in 
general,
> I think they'd be handy in many cases when you just want to zip 
around
> quick. I'll likely add it in as a list pref, so that you can have 
it or
> not as you see fit, on a list by list basis. Not sure when I'll add 
it.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:50pm
Subject: Popup scrollbar?

Just a thought I had last night; I'm considering adding a optional
scrollbar to the right side of the screen. You coudl enable or disable it
by pref, or maybe by list pref. But as an alternative.. what about a
scrollbar-on-demand?

	The question is.. do you want a scrollbar mostly to move around
quickly with, or to get a visual queue of where you are, or both?

	I thought I could maybe squeeze a little teeny button into the
bottom right somewhere. If tapped, a little scrollbar window could pop up,
and you could position the thumb where you want it. Then the window would
vanish, and the document woudl redraw. The popup window would be about 1cm
wide by screen-height, say.

	Does this sound any good? 

	Or should I stick with convention and have a optional
scrollbar.. even present, or disabled, your option?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 2:13pm
Subject: Re: Popup scrollbar?

I would like the standard operation of a scroll bar, except since I 
am left-handed, make sure it works with Lefty hack or the other one. 
My lists get pretty long and quickly being able to scan the list is 
important. 

Re: expert bar -- seems fine -- I have no problem with the current 
move controls. 

I'm still hoping the tags show up.......

Bruce

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Just a thought I had last night; I'm considering adding a 
optional
> scrollbar to the right side of the screen. You coudl enable or 
disable it
> by pref, or maybe by list pref. But as an alternative.. what about a
> scrollbar-on-demand?
> 
> 	The question is.. do you want a scrollbar mostly to move 
around
> quickly with, or to get a visual queue of where you are, or both?
> 
> 	I thought I could maybe squeeze a little teeny button into the
> bottom right somewhere. If tapped, a little scrollbar window could 
pop up,
> and you could position the thumb where you want it. Then the window 
would
> vanish, and the document woudl redraw. The popup window would be 
about 1cm
> wide by screen-height, say.
> 
> 	Does this sound any good? 
> 
> 	Or should I stick with convention and have a optional
> scrollbar.. even present, or disabled, your option?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Rick Blaiklock  <rblaiklock@h...>
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 2:21pm
Subject: Visor Version

My Visor Edge is  3.5.2H2.0

How's that for a version number.

...R
----------------------
Rick Blaiklock
rblaiklock@h...



From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Digest Number 256
Date: 14 Oct 2001 19:57:09 -0000

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------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

       1. RE: Project Management Tips
            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
       2. RE: Project Management Tips
            From: "Neal Cordle" <ncordle@y...>
       3. Expert mode button bar?
            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
       4. Re: Expert mode button bar?
            From: maclover88 <maclover88@m...>
       5. Re: Expert mode button bar?
            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
       6. Anyone still up? :) OS version question
            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
       7. Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question
            From: "David R. Seibert" <davidrseibert@p...>
       8. Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question
            From: maclover88 <maclover88@m...>
       9. Advertising Project Magement system
            From: m_harlow@v...
      10. Re: Expert mode button bar?
            From: jacques@t...
      11. Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question
            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      12. Re: Advertising Project Magement system
            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      13. Re: Expert mode button bar?
            From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      14. Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question
            From: polly_q@y...
      15. Re: Expert mode button bar?
            From: "Griff" <keith@t...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:28:30 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: RE: Project Management Tips

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, Kenneth S. Rhee wrote:

 > The rectangle on the top left corner still remains.

	Keep this in shadow-test.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
    Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 21:57:11 +0200
    From: "Neal Cordle" <ncordle@y...>
Subject: RE: Project Management Tips

Welcome to ShadowPlan!

FWIW, I have......

1.  Two "Table of Contents" lists.  One is for personal and one is for 
professional projects.  These lists basically are the
"project titles" and link to.....
2.  Multiple lists: one for each project.  When I enter the tasks for each 
project, I try to go ahead and link to todo or
datebook as appropriate.
3.  On a daily basis, I use todo and datebook to manage my work.
4.  On a weekly basis, I review all projects, adding new tasks, list 
maintenance.
5.  Each project I manage has similar steps that I want included, i.e., 
purpose, goal, manager, evaluation, etc.  I created a
"blank" list with these items and store as a "template."  When I open a new 
project list, I copy these items into the new list.
6.  I do have several miscellaneous lists for items that don't fit into a 
project, i.e., shopping lists, websites to visit, etc.

Good luck!
Neal

-----Original Message-----
From: m_harlow@v...
[mailto:m_harlow@v...]
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 5:12 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Project Management Tips


I'm new to ShadowPlan.  How do other users use it as a project
manager?

Thanks,
Matt Harlow



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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
    Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 16:54:01 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Expert mode button bar?


	This has come up a few times. Do you want icon button bar instead
of text buttons? (I'm thinkign a pref for this, so that by default text
button are used, but icon buttons and more of them if you are a Shadow
regular user).

	Current front panel buttons are:

	New, Child, Details, Done, Search, Trash

	I'm thinking of exprt button bar that has buttons for each of
these, plus at least 5 more:

	Icon for "New Parent". When you hit this, you create a new item at
a higher level, below (on-screen) them item currently selected. The idea
being I want to create this list:

A
	1
B

	Write "A". New-child. "1". New-parent. "B". Done!

	Normally, I have to "A". New-child. "1". Select "A". New Sibling.

	I'd like to avoid the selection part :)

	Also, 4 buttons for "push up", "push down", "push left", "push
right".

	Is this sort of button bar universally desirable? What options
would you prefer in addition to, or instead of, these?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
    Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:18:27 -0700
    From: maclover88 <maclover88@m...>
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

Jeff,

The icon extra buttons sound great.
Would the export allow us to export the selected item to a different list?
If so how about a choice between leaving the item in the current list as
well as the destination list (like a copy paste) or deleating from the
current list (like a cut and paste).
I find that as I am arranging my lists, cut (or copy paste) is a lot of work
to send an item to a different list. It would be great to be able to stay in
the list I'm in and send stuff to my other lists in a submenu which is I
hope what you mean by export (of course in addition to exporting to the
memo, to do and appt book).

The other request I have is for there to be a vertical scroll bar along the
right edge. I really like having the control in addition to the page up and
down buttons. On my Visor this appears when I am in my App window in the ALL
view.

Thanks,
Jim

<Is this sort of button bar universally desirable? What options
would you prefer in addition to, or instead of, these?>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
    Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 22:43:36 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

 > The icon extra buttons sound great.

	We'll see, then :)

 > Would the export allow us to export the selected item to a different 
list?

	Did I mention export in there somewhere, or are you coming in from
the side? ;)

	It has long been on my todo list to add a "send to" function, to
let you send an item (or maybe the clipboard?) to another list. A easy way
to save close/open/paste.

 > If so how about a choice between leaving the item in the current list as
 > well as the destination list (like a copy paste) or deleating from the
 > current list (like a cut and paste).

	If I make it a "send clip to ..." option, it'd be fine. Clear the
clip, copy whatever you want (multiple items even, as usual), and then
"send to".

 > The other request I have is for there to be a vertical scroll bar
 > along the right edge. I really like having the control in addition to
 > the page up and down buttons. On my Visor this appears when I am in my
 > App window in the ALL view.

	Its also on my todo list; so far, whenever I've done polls, no one
has wanted them since they'd take away from screen space. But in general,
I think they'd be handy in many cases when you just want to zip around
quick. I'll likely add it in as a list pref, so that you can have it or
not as you see fit, on a list by list basis. Not sure when I'll add it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
    Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 23:54:24 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Anyone still up? :) OS version question


	In general, everything I write for Palm works on OS 3.0 and later,
and usually on Palm OS 2.0 and later too (even Shadow, though I don't
advertise it, works pretty well on 2.x though not perfectly).

	How many people are still using OS 3.0 or OS 3.1?

	Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them? Is it
3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).

	Need to know..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 04:54:06 -0000
    From: "David R. Seibert" <davidrseibert@p...>
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
 >
 > (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).
 >
I'm still up. Actually, 3.5.2H1.5 was released for the Prism and the
Platinum on August 30. I'm going to bed now; goodnight.

David R. Seibert
davidrseibert@p...



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
    Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 22:25:10 -0700
    From: maclover88 <maclover88@m...>
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

Mine has 3.1H2
Jim

 >Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them? Is it
 >3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:52:44 -0000
    From: m_harlow@v...
Subject: Advertising Project Magement system

I'm still only playing with the demo version of shadow plan but I
think I'm hooked!  Here's the system I've put together so far:

1) I have a list called templates with templates of a parent and
children for each type of project I normally do.  Print ad, TV spot,
etc.

2) I have made a list for each of my clients.  I cut and paste the
template items into a client and rename them.  So I might cut out a
print ad from template and paste it in a bank client then name it
mortgage ad.  I then link mortgage ad to my Palm task list so that it
can show up there and hotsync to Outlook.

3) I sure the children for subtasks like copy, layout, photos, client
OK, etc.

4) Layout wise I'm using custom because I love the link off/on box
with the little T in it to send things to task list without having to
go there.

OK there's a brief discription of my system.  What do you experienced
users think of it?

Also I have some questions/potential software refinement ideas:

a) Is there a way to follow a link back from the Palm to do list if
you were not just in ShadowPlan?  If not that would be a great
feature/Palm todo hack.

b) How do you sort out tasks that are due today out of 20 different
lists without opening and closing them all?

Here's another great feature idea for ShadowPlan.  What if the date
on a parent could be driven by the children under it.  Each parent
could take on the date of the earliest child needing attention.  Then
if parents were all linked to the palm todo (or collapsed in
shadowplan) then the parent listing would make it apparent which
parents needed to be opened up and dealt with.

Or, here's another idea!  What if shadow plan generated a link to the
palm to do list on the date any item was due (or x days before
that).  That way an entire project could be mapped out in ShadowPlan
and it would proactively request attention for it's individual tasks.

c) I'm still playing with filters and sorting.  Is there a way I can
use them to make the system I outlined above more practical or
powerful?

Thanks for you help and advice.  And, Jeff, thanks for the great
software at an affordable price.

Matt Harlow



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:30:26 -0400
    From: jacques@t...
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

At 16:54 13/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
 >Do you want icon button bar instead
 >of text buttons?

Yes !!!!

 >Icon for "New Parent"?

I don't care so much (but maybe need to taste to be convinced)

 >         Also, 4 buttons for "push up", "push down",

For those who still have problesms with drags ??

 >"push left", "push right".

Waste of real estate (or other feature) : space backspace is so easy !!

I would like (as in Plucker) customizable features for buttons (either soft
or (why not ?) hard): you would pick your choice for each in a drop down
list. Choices could be any menu item or c-f-v drop down lists.

I know that instead of four "Push..." I would often select "Zoom inside",
"unzoom", "expand memos", "collapse memos" ;-)

Just my 2 .....


Jacques





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:24:49 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

 > Mine has 3.1H2
 >
 > >Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them? Is it
 > >3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).

	3.1H2. I wonder what the last "2" means. "H" means Handspring and
implies USB, etc. Hmm.

	Ah well. I built some code to work around problems in 3.0 and 3.1,
just to be sure :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:32:53 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Advertising Project Magement system

On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 m_harlow@v... wrote:

 > a) Is there a way to follow a link back from the Palm to do list if
 > you were not just in ShadowPlan?  If not that would be a great
 > feature/Palm todo hack.

	There is LinkerHack which AFAIK is the only way to do this. I
can't edit the other programs of course, and they're in control, so I
cannot directly build a way to jump back unless you were just in
Shadow. However, LinkerHack does an amazing job of building links into
prorgams that do not do links themselves. Amazing!

 > b) How do you sort out tasks that are due today out of 20 different
 > lists without opening and closing them all?

	Thats a tough one. I have been considering building two tools to
handle this:

1) A palm tool that you invoke from the Shadow file selection screen.
Check off which lists to scan, and have Shadow generate a new list
containing duplicates of the items that match the search criterion you
specify. Sort of a brute force multi-list scanner. Need to think about how
to do this well, fast, and usably.

2) The desktop application runs on the desktop, which has the horsepower
to open piles of lists no problem, unlike the Palm. So I might build a
multi-list filter into the desktop application. Sort of like a "Find me
all the items that atch this..." and the desktop app shows you a window of
matches, and lets you click on one to load the corresponding list.

Option (2) Sounds a lot more plausible, but being on the desktop means it
won't be available "all the time" (for those on the road), and means you
need to have the desktop (which Unix people won't have for awhile, for
instance, and the desktop will likely be a very cheap but extra cost
option). (I'll likely charge $7.99 extra for the desktop, or something,
due to the massive cost to build it and fund its growth. Not yet nailed
down.)

	*shrug*. Toughie :/

 > Here's another great feature idea for ShadowPlan.  What if the date
 > on a parent could be driven by the children under it.  Each parent
 > could take on the date of the earliest child needing attention.  Then
 > if parents were all linked to the palm todo (or collapsed in
 > shadowplan) then the parent listing would make it apparent which
 > parents needed to be opened up and dealt with.

	A vote; anyone want this? A pref that when set, makes the parent
always pick up the earliest dates from its children? (earliest target and
start, latest finish, I guess)

 > that).  That way an entire project could be mapped out in ShadowPlan
 > and it would proactively request attention for it's individual tasks.

	That could get messy for people with large lists. I like to leave
links to people to set.. not automatic. *shrug*

 > c) I'm still playing with filters and sorting.  Is there a way I can
 > use them to make the system I outlined above more practical or
 > powerful?

	If you think of something, let me know. I will eventually be
adding customizable filters to make things more powerful for you.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 13
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:37:31 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

 > Yes !!!!

	hehe :)

 > >Icon for "New Parent"?
 > I don't care so much (but maybe need to taste to be convinced)

	I sort of like it, but we'll see. Easily taken out and replaced
with something else. It was something I always missed from my Newton days
:)

 > >         Also, 4 buttons for "push up", "push down",
 > For those who still have problesms with drags ??

	Yep, and for those who just want an easy way to quickly do it
repeatedly withotu thinking at all. (Admittedly, my drag system is
powerful but a tad confusing to people).

 > >"push left", "push right".
 > Waste of real estate (or other feature) : space backspace is so easy !!

	Few peopel read the manual to know these. This is an expert bar,
granted, but I envision a lot of people using it because it looks good,
and because its easier to use.

	See screenshot..

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/buttonbar1.gif

 > I would like (as in Plucker) customizable features for buttons (either 
soft
 > or (why not ?) hard): you would pick your choice for each in a drop down
 > list. Choices could be any menu item or c-f-v drop down lists.

	*eep* I knew you'd want this ;) I may build it later, but for now
I want maximum punch for the work, so I want most commonly desirable
options. A customize button bar system is rough, since it means I need to
draw 40 little icons in both colour and black and white, and build a UI to
add/remove them, and handle their operation and all that. Its a good (way
cool) idea, but its a lot of work :)

 > I know that instead of four "Push..." I would often select "Zoom inside",
 > "unzoom", "expand memos", "collapse memos" ;-)

	Really? I wouldn't have guessed that ;) (Zoom and Unzoom already
available in the [V] menu is two taps. Do you zoom that much?) And
expanding memos and such? Really? See how far off I am :)

	I am tempted to have a standard button bar as screenshoted above,
and a second customizable bar.. if you want a pile of options, build your
own bar and place it above the normal one. Hmm...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 14
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:57:08 -0000
    From: polly_q@y...
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

Hi Jeff--

      My black & white Visor uses Palm OS 3.1H2.

--PollyQ

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
 >
 > 	In general, everything I write for Palm works on OS 3.0 and
later,
 > and usually on Palm OS 2.0 and later too (even Shadow, though I
don't
 > advertise it, works pretty well on 2.x though not perfectly).
 >
 > 	How many people are still using OS 3.0 or OS 3.1?
 >
 > 	Which exact version do black and white Visor's have in them?
Is it
 > 3.3H or 3.1H? (I know the Prism is 3.5.0H).
 >
 > 	Need to know..
 >
 > 		jeff
 >
 > --
 > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
 > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
 > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
 > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
    Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:37:51 -0000
    From: "Griff" <keith@t...>
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

Personally I'd like to see the scroll bar as a global Shadow
preference. I figure people will want to use it all the time or not
at all...at least I know that's how I'd be; I'd use it all the time.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
 > On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:
 > > The other request I have is for there to be a vertical scroll bar
 > > along the right edge. I really like having the control in
addition to
 > > the page up and down buttons. On my Visor this appears when I am
in my
 > > App window in the ALL view.
 >
 > 	Its also on my todo list; so far, whenever I've done polls,
no one
 > has wanted them since they'd take away from screen space. But in
general,
 > I think they'd be handy in many cases when you just want to zip
around
 > quick. I'll likely add it in as a list pref, so that you can have
it or
 > not as you see fit, on a list by list basis. Not sure when I'll add
it.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




_________________________________________________________________
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From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 2:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Popup scrollbar?

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> I would like the standard operation of a scroll bar, except since I 
> am left-handed, make sure it works with Lefty hack or the other one. 
> My lists get pretty long and quickly being able to scan the list is 
> important. 

	What does LeftyHack do?

	Southpaws like to have the scrollbar on the left?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 2:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Popup scrollbar?

Jeff,

I am a lefty, and because of that don't often use the scroll bars (left
hand covers the screen when you reach for the scroll-bar). LeftHack moves
scroll bars to the left side of the display. It's made by Quartus (
http://www.quartus.net/products/lefthack/ ), but at $10 it seemed
over-priced  to me. So I try to stick to hardware buttons. Just one of the
many crosses we lefties must bare.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Popup scrollbar?                    
                    10/15/2001                                                                                     
                    09:31 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> I would like the standard operation of a scroll bar, except since I
> am left-handed, make sure it works with Lefty hack or the other one.
> My lists get pretty long and quickly being able to scan the list is
> important.

           What does LeftyHack do?

           Southpaws like to have the scrollbar on the left?

                     jeff

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: Popup scrollbar?

jeff
i'm also a lefty. scroll bars are great as long as they can be moved and
the screen adjusted accordingly. there are a few apps that just don't
play nice even with the hacks. avantgo, certain screens for action
names, wordsmith, and a few others. the scroll bar gets moved but it
covers text. damned if you do damned if you don't.

the big thing for leftys is the scroll bar being switched like scott
said. it's pain trying to read thru the back of your hand :)

scott
i have found a freeware hack that works pretty good. it says it's
shareware but i have yet to see a nag or a price.

http://www.interlog.com/~nbridges

there is a stand alone app called lefty if i am not mistaken but i think
that is also a shareware.
ian

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:37:13 -0500
> Jeff,
> 
> I am a lefty, and because of that don't often use the scroll bars (left
> hand covers the screen when you reach for the scroll-bar). LeftHack moves
> scroll bars to the left side of the display. It's made by Quartus (
> http://www.quartus.net/products/lefthack/ ), but at $10 it seemed
> over-priced  to me. So I try to stick to hardware buttons. Just one of the
> many crosses we lefties must bare.
> 
> Scott

From: omar-@home.com
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 9:16pm
Subject: Re: Popup scrollbar?

I personally don't find the standard scrollbar to be very useful in navigating around a file.  I would prefer a button at the bottom that pops up a list of, say, the first line of the top level headlines.  Tapping a headline would take you to that location in the outline.

This idea is takeoff of the "jump to paragraph" function in Wordsmith and the "jump to section" function in cJAG Notes.

Regards.

michael walsh

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Just a thought I had last night; I'm considering adding a optional scrollbar . . .

From: jreyes1958@y...
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Advertising Project Magement system

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 m_harlow@v... wrote:
> 
> > a) Is there a way to follow a link back from the Palm to do list if 
> > you were not just in ShadowPlan?  If not that would be a great 
> > feature/Palm todo hack.
> 
> 	There is LinkerHack which AFAIK is the only way to do this. I
> can't edit the other programs of course, and they're in control, so I
> cannot directly build a way to jump back unless you were just in
> Shadow. However, LinkerHack does an amazing job of building links into
> prorgams that do not do links themselves. Amazing!
> 
> > b) How do you sort out tasks that are due today out of 20 different 
> > lists without opening and closing them all?  
> 
> 	Thats a tough one. I have been considering building two tools to
> handle this:
> 
> 1) A palm tool that you invoke from the Shadow file selection screen.
> Check off which lists to scan, and have Shadow generate a new list
> containing duplicates of the items that match the search criterion you
> specify. Sort of a brute force multi-list scanner. Need to think
about how
> to do this well, fast, and usably.
> 
> 2) The desktop application runs on the desktop, which has the horsepower
> to open piles of lists no problem, unlike the Palm. So I might build a
> multi-list filter into the desktop application. Sort of like a "Find me
> all the items that atch this..." and the desktop app shows you a
window of
> matches, and lets you click on one to load the corresponding list.
> 
> Option (2) Sounds a lot more plausible, but being on the desktop
means it
> won't be available "all the time" (for those on the road), and means you
> need to have the desktop (which Unix people won't have for awhile, for
> instance, and the desktop will likely be a very cheap but extra cost
> option). (I'll likely charge $7.99 extra for the desktop, or something,
> due to the massive cost to build it and fund its growth. Not yet nailed
> down.)
> 
> 	*shrug*. Toughie :/
> 
> > Here's another great feature idea for ShadowPlan.  What if the date 
> > on a parent could be driven by the children under it.  Each parent 
> > could take on the date of the earliest child needing attention.  Then 
> > if parents were all linked to the palm todo (or collapsed in 
> > shadowplan) then the parent listing would make it apparent which 
> > parents needed to be opened up and dealt with.
> 
> 	A vote; anyone want this? A pref that when set, makes the parent
> always pick up the earliest dates from its children? (earliest
target and
> start, latest finish, I guess)
> 
> > that).  That way an entire project could be mapped out in ShadowPlan 
> > and it would proactively request attention for it's individual tasks.
> 
> 	That could get messy for people with large lists. I like to leave
> links to people to set.. not automatic. *shrug*
> 
> > c) I'm still playing with filters and sorting.  Is there a way I can 
> > use them to make the system I outlined above more practical or 
> > powerful?
> 
> 	If you think of something, let me know. I will eventually be
> adding customizable filters to make things more powerful for you.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


My vote would be for a palm powered app for cross file filtering.
Seems to defeat the purpose of the palm powered app if you have to
have the desktop to enable a feature.

desktop filter is great too of course, but if it's not on the palm as
well, not a good solution

From: Trw672533@c...
Date: Mon Oct 15, 2001 7:56pm
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

fyi as requested -- I'm still using 3.1 on my Palm IIIe.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:34am
Subject: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 	How many people are still using OS 3.0 or OS 3.1?

=====
I am running: 
 -OS 3.5 on IIIc 2MB Flash ROM
 -OS 3.3 on IIIx w/ Xtra Xtra Pro, therefore 4MB Flash ROM
 -OS 3.1 on PP Pro w/ Palm RAM expansion and therefore 2MB Flash ROM.

-----
I did not see the point of upgrading to 3.5 when 4.0 was in the works.

I am hoping I can upgrade all or at least the IIIc and IIIx to Palm 
OS 4 when it becomes available for the older models.  We will see.

Peter R.

"All Accounting is creative."

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 4:59am
Subject: Re: Popup scrollbar?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., omar-@h... wrote:
> I personally don't find the standard scrollbar to be very useful in 
navigating around a file.  I would prefer a button at the bottom 
that...

Pops up a jump menu: 
 -Home, 
 -Back%, 
 -% [absolute %],
 -Forward %,
 -End,
 -Marker,
 -Top level [of current List -- one level short of collapse all]

A takeoff on the jump menu within the pedit family of text editors.

Peter R.
"All Accounting is creative."

From: Peter R Grierson  <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 6:26am
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

--- In shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Mitchell <support@c...>
wrote:
>
> >snip< Do you want an icon button bar instead of text buttons?
>

=====
ShadowPlan "Icon" buttons might be:

TOP ROW:
N  = New item
NC = New Child
NP = New Parent [I miss this from my first outliner - MaxThink]
U  = Undo
X  = Cut
C  = Copy
P  = Paste
S  = Select
J  = Jump
F  = Find [find within the current List]
G  = Find Again (from the Mac environment)

BOTTOM ROW:
OK = Okay
D  = Details [Category, Private, Delete]
   =
   =
L  = Lower case
T  = Title case
U  = Upper case
   =
?  = Help
R  = Revert to Last
V  = Insert Clipboard or List
>  = Recent Lists
»  = Linked Applications [Datebook, DateBK3/4, Action Names, ToDo, etc.]

Liberally adapted from the menu buttons of the pedit family of text editors.

From the pedit manual, "I hope the buttonPanel concept will become standard
in all Palm applications. Any interested party should contact me
[2me@P...] regarding licensing questions and the buttonPanel
SDK." Using the "buttonPanel" Paul has worked out may make your task easier.

The pedit family also uses the sliding button concept developed by the
author of Fitaly and FitalyStamp to access characters not on the default
Fitaly screen or stamp.  In Fitaly, sliding a lower case letter [a] can
create that letter in upper case letter [A]. Or, directional sliding can be
used to create multiple variations [à, á, â, ã, ä, å].

Adapting the sliding concept to ShadowPlan it would not be necessary to have
three separate buttons for new (N, NC and NP).  A single item, say "New",
could be used for all three. Tapping "New" would create a new item on the
same level. Right Sliding "New" would create a new child, and Left Sliding
"New" would create a new parent.

In short, I would like an expert button bar--

Peter R. Grierson, Ph.D.

Not everything that can be counted is important, and
Not everything that is important can be counted.
  - Albert Einstein

From: samir.kasme@s...
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:55am
Subject: Re: Expert mode button bar?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > I know that instead of four "Push..." I would often select "Zoom 
inside", 
> > "unzoom", "expand memos", "collapse memos" ;-)
> 
> 	Really? I wouldn't have guessed that ;) (Zoom and Unzoom 
already
> available in the [V] menu is two taps. Do you zoom that much?) And
> expanding memos and such? Really? See how far off I am :)

Personnally, Zoom(inside level)/Unzoom and Expand/Collapse memos are 
among the commands I use most when working on a list (except of 
course the already available buttons like New, Child, Garbage bin 
etc.) Having these commands as buttons would certainly make things 
faster.
So add my vote for an Expert button bar...

By the way why not add list prefs as well? I don't know if it 
diserves a button, but it certainly diserves a shortcut IMO... I find 
myself tweaking at the list preferences (like word wrap, bulleting, 
etc.) reasonably often, and every single time I regret not having a 
shortcut for that..

Cheers
Samir

From: Alltel - don  <dk40410@a...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 0:25pm
Subject: Re: Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question

I'm using OS 3.1H2 on a visor Deluxe.
Don

----- Original Message -----
From: <peter.grierson@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 11:34 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Anyone still up? :) OS version question


> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > How many people are still using OS 3.0 or OS 3.1?
>
> =====
> I am running:
>  -OS 3.5 on IIIc 2MB Flash ROM
>  -OS 3.3 on IIIx w/ Xtra Xtra Pro, therefore 4MB Flash ROM
>  -OS 3.1 on PP Pro w/ Palm RAM expansion and therefore 2MB Flash ROM.
>
> -----
> I did not see the point of upgrading to 3.5 when 4.0 was in the works.
>
> I am hoping I can upgrade all or at least the IIIc and IIIx to Palm
> OS 4 when it becomes available for the older models.  We will see.
>
> Peter R.
>
> "All Accounting is creative."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

From: m_harlow@v...
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 0:50pm
Subject: Idea - Let children drive parent dates

In a post the other day, Jeff aksed what we thought of the idea of 
letting the earliest child date drive the date on a parent.  I think 
that's a great idea.  Here's my reasoning.

1) If you are using a parent as a task and the children as sub tasks, 
then each parent should be paid attention to on the date of it's 
earliest child.

2) If you checked off that earliest child, the date on the parent 
would advance to the next earliest child and the project can go out 
of mind w/o having to pop it open and review the dates on the 
children every day.

3) If you are still using the Palm todo app, you can link parents to 
that app and by completing children each day, you palm todo list will 
manage itself via the links.

What do others think of this idea?  I think it would really improve 
the project management aspects of Shadow Plan.

Thanks,
Matt

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:22pm
Subject: Re: Idea - Let children drive parent dates

matt:
a way to carry dates through the list would be a great feature. personally
i was wondering if there was a way to set a pref to allow all new items to
take the date it was entered. i am working on a job log right now and it
slows things down trying to remember to set the start date.

jeff:
as for the expert mode buttons - the more the merrier as long as they can
be turned on and off and possibly customize which ones each person 
wants (similar to launcheriii gadgets maybe?)

ian

 On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 m_harlow@v... wrote:

> In a post the other day, Jeff aksed what we thought of the idea of 
> letting the earliest child date drive the date on a parent.  I think 
> that's a great idea.  Here's my reasoning.
> 
> 1) If you are using a parent as a task and the children as sub tasks, 
> then each parent should be paid attention to on the date of it's 
> earliest child.
> 
> 2) If you checked off that earliest child, the date on the parent 
> would advance to the next earliest child and the project can go out 
> of mind w/o having to pop it open and review the dates on the 
> children every day.
> 
> 3) If you are still using the Palm todo app, you can link parents to 
> that app and by completing children each day, you palm todo list will 
> manage itself via the links.
> 
> What do others think of this idea?  I think it would really improve 
> the project management aspects of Shadow Plan.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:58pm
Subject: Re: Re: Expert mode button bar?

Yike; lots of stuff here :)

	I wa thinking along the lines of a list of operations that can be
made into buttons, or perhaps just a giant checkbox (though the former
lets you put them into your bar in your preferred order). You keep adding
them. If each button is approx 11 pixels square (say), you can get about
12 across (guessing). So if you chose 15 options, you'd lose two
additional bottom rows from Shadows display.. it'd make 1.5 rows of
buttons for you. If you used 10 or 12 buttons, you'd lose one row.

	So you could sacrifice a row or two of display for a button bar,
if you so wish.

	Thoughts?

	As to sliding and whatnot.. interesting, but a bit of work to
develop, and seems like it could be futzy to me (I've had a lot of trouble
with some devices being more sensitive than others). Hmm.

		jeff

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Peter R Grierson wrote:

> =====
> ShadowPlan "Icon" buttons might be:
> 
> TOP ROW:
> N  = New item
> NC = New Child
> NP = New Parent [I miss this from my first outliner - MaxThink]
> U  = Undo
> X  = Cut
> C  = Copy
> P  = Paste
> S  = Select
> J  = Jump
> F  = Find [find within the current List]
> G  = Find Again (from the Mac environment)
> 
> BOTTOM ROW:
> OK = Okay
> D  = Details [Category, Private, Delete]
>    =
>    =
> L  = Lower case
> T  = Title case
> U  = Upper case
>    =
> ?  = Help
> R  = Revert to Last
> V  = Insert Clipboard or List
> >  = Recent Lists
> »  = Linked Applications [Datebook, DateBK3/4, Action Names, ToDo, etc.]
> 
> Liberally adapted from the menu buttons of the pedit family of text editors.
> 
> >From the pedit manual, "I hope the buttonPanel concept will become standard
> in all Palm applications. Any interested party should contact me
> [2me@P...] regarding licensing questions and the buttonPanel
> SDK." Using the "buttonPanel" Paul has worked out may make your task easier.
> 
> The pedit family also uses the sliding button concept developed by the
> author of Fitaly and FitalyStamp to access characters not on the default
> Fitaly screen or stamp.  In Fitaly, sliding a lower case letter [a] can
> create that letter in upper case letter [A]. Or, directional sliding can be
> used to create multiple variations [à, á, â, ã, ä, å].
> 
> Adapting the sliding concept to ShadowPlan it would not be necessary to have
> three separate buttons for new (N, NC and NP).  A single item, say "New",
> could be used for all three. Tapping "New" would create a new item on the
> same level. Right Sliding "New" would create a new child, and Left Sliding
> "New" would create a new parent.
> 
> In short, I would like an expert button bar--
> 
> Peter R. Grierson, Ph.D.
> 
> Not everything that can be counted is important, and
> Not everything that is important can be counted.
>   - Albert Einstein
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:18pm
Subject: Re: Popup scrollbar?

Yup - I want the scroll bar on the left since my hand is not 
invisible or transparent -- it's tough to know how far to scroll 
when you can see the screen. And I misspoke myself -- it 
is "lefthack", not leftyhack. I believe there is also one called 
lefty, but I use lefthack and find it does most of what is needed.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:
> 
> > I would like the standard operation of a scroll bar, except 
since I 
> > am left-handed, make sure it works with Lefty hack or the other 
one. 
> > My lists get pretty long and quickly being able to scan the list 
is 
> > important. 
> 
> 	What does LeftyHack do?
> 
> 	Southpaws like to have the scrollbar on the left?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Popup scrollbar?

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> Yup - I want the scroll bar on the left since my hand is not 
> invisible or transparent -- it's tough to know how far to scroll 
> when you can see the screen. And I misspoke myself -- it 
> is "lefthack", not leftyhack. I believe there is also one called 
> lefty, but I use lefthack and find it does most of what is needed.

	I don't plan on updating the screen during scrolling anyway
(unless its fast enough, but due to Shadows complexity, linking support,
etc etc, it may not be possible to keep up to a fast scroll.) We'll see.

		jeff

> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:
> > 
> > > I would like the standard operation of a scroll bar, except 
> since I 
> > > am left-handed, make sure it works with Lefty hack or the other 
> one. 
> > > My lists get pretty long and quickly being able to scan the list 
> is 
> > > important. 
> > 
> > 	What does LeftyHack do?
> > 
> > 	Southpaws like to have the scrollbar on the left?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pg@d...
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:16pm
Subject: Re: Idea - Let children drive parent dates

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., m_harlow@v... wrote:
> In a post the other day, Jeff aksed what we thought of the idea of 
> letting the earliest child date drive the date on a parent.  I 
think 
> that's a great idea.

Excellent idea.

In fact, I've been looking at ShadowPlan, but I couldn't work out how 
to get it to sort properly (as you describe). I joined this group to 
find out if there was something I was missing!

I've not committed to any other ToDo app because not one of them 
handles this, and for me it's absolutely essential. If the top-level 
item is due in 2008, but there's one child item due today, I want the 
whole project to be right up at the top. I can't risk missing the sub-
item because it's buried down at the bottom somewhere.

Progect *can* do this right with its 'flat' view (showing only 
terminal items i.e. ones without children). However, it's also too 
easy to inadvertently filter out items that need to be done. And it 
crashes slightly too often on my Palm.

Still, as it's being mooted, I'll keep an eye on SP. If this feature 
is implemented, it could be just what I'm looking for.

Regards, PatG

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 6:50pm
Subject: Those interested in Shadow Desktop Beta

Join shadow-desktop mailing list off my website. It will be 
announced there tomorrow morning, if the final approval goes onto it 
tonight.
  
http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/maillist.html
                
        If you miss the announcement, just check the archives tomorrow    
afternoon:      
                
http://shadow.skeleton.org/shadowmail/shadow-desktop/2001-October/thread.html
                
                jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Ian M. Sacklow  <isacklow@d...>
Date: Tue Oct 16, 2001 7:10pm
Subject: Re: Those interested in Shadow Desktop Beta

WOO HOO!!!!!! :)
ian

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 14:50:37 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Reply-To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Those interested in Shadow Desktop Beta
> 
> 
>         Join shadow-desktop mailing list off my website. It will be 
> announced there tomorrow morning, if the final approval goes onto it 
> tonight.
>   
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/maillist.html
>                 
>         If you miss the announcement, just check the archives tomorrow    
> afternoon:      
>                 
> http://shadow.skeleton.org/shadowmail/shadow-desktop/2001-October/thread.html
>                 
>                 jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>

From: Cason  <newstuff@i...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 3:11am
Subject: Re: Popup Scrollbar

I mainly use the scrollbar as a visual indicator of how large the list is and where I am in the list.  I find scrollbars really useful because they let me move around while letting me know where I am in relation to the big picture.  Would it be too much trouble to have the list redraw while dragging the scrollbar?

For me, a popup scrollbar would be pretty much useless.  Maybe you could have an optional scrollbar with a button at the bottom of it to jump around (like in MS Word)?
  -Cason

From: ccahua@m...
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 5:12am
Subject: modular ShadowPlan?

Hi Jeff, 

With all these new features possibly coming for Shadow, I was 
wondering if you can modularize ShadowPlan so that a simple core 
ShadowPlan can have plug-ins or add-ons for the extra features. That 
way you can satisfy the newbies and the power users plus perhaps have 
a twofer payment system: $12.99 for ShadowPlan, $19.99 for 
ShadowPlanPro.

I hate to see ShadowPlan get too bloated in memory or processing just 
for a few features that may get a small percentage of functionality.

It kinda reminds me of BugMe when it first started out. Now it's 
quite bigger but I still love just the core functionality of digital 
ink with an alarm (yes, i like diddlebug too but the redraw is not 
robust)

Any chance on having plug-ins like ThinkDB or Mitch Blevin's 
Intelligent boogers?

ShadowPlan Rules!

From: maclover88  <maclover88@m...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 10:20am
Subject: re: scroll bar

I don't know if this is possible, but what if the scroll bar went
horizontally along the lowest portion of the screen? That way you solve the
left hand, right hand issues. Also it could be optional in place of the
second row of icons.  Have any other programs ever tried this?

From: maclover88  <maclover88@m...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 10:29am
Subject: Re: re: scroll bar

To clarify the left most scoll would take you to the top of the document and
the right most scroll the bottom, with a visual indicator of where you are.
Like the way some elevators have the floor numbers written across
horizontally the top of the elevator doors.

So instead of a scroll bar, we can call it the elevator bar.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 0:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Popup Scrollbar

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Cason wrote:

> I mainly use the scrollbar as a visual indicator of how large the list
> is and where I am in the list.  I find scrollbars really useful
> because they let me move around while letting me know where I am in
> relation to the big picture.  Would it be too much trouble to have the
> list redraw while dragging the scrollbar?

	Not sure; I'll have to build it and see. Its not a matter of
trouble of course.. its a matter of performance. Some people (average?)
like to zip up and down with a scrollbar, and Shadow might not be able to
keep up the display. (ie: You could have a 300k list in there, and Shadow
trying to figure out the relations in real time as you slide up and down,
and draw it all, could be rough). There could be the option where you move
the thumb up and down the scrollbar, and if you rest for a second, it
redraws. *shrug*.

	I'll do the best I can :)

> For me, a popup scrollbar would be pretty much useless.  Maybe you
> could have an optional scrollbar with a button at the bottom of it to
> jump around (like in MS Word)?

	Just gathering input; I tend to keep short lists (but lots of
them); others have long lists. But because mine are short, position inside
isn't useful. So a faster way to jump up and down could be useful. But if
you keep long lists, a scrollbar could be more usefull. It never works out
easy ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 0:45pm
Subject: Re: modular ShadowPlan?

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 ccahua@m... wrote:

> With all these new features possibly coming for Shadow, I was 
> wondering if you can modularize ShadowPlan so that a simple core 
> ShadowPlan can have plug-ins or add-ons for the extra features. That 
> way you can satisfy the newbies and the power users plus perhaps have 

	I've thought about it a few times; the engine could have plugins,
but the UI would need a big redesign to make a system for plugins to take
over screen real estate or drop into pulldown menus and such. Once the
desktop is finally out and I wrap up some important features, I might take
a month or two and vanish and rewrite some older pieces of Shadow and then
try and go for a modular system. (I would at least like to have plug in
UI's.. a UI for project managers, a UI for writers, etc. Or even have you
select an appropriate UI face for each list or something.) *shrug*

> I hate to see ShadowPlan get too bloated in memory or processing just 
> for a few features that may get a small percentage of functionality.

	*nod*

> Any chance on having plug-ins like ThinkDB or Mitch Blevin's 
> Intelligent boogers?

	Time will tell; priorities need to be determined. I could decrease
program size and increase speed, and decrease load and save times. Or I
could go adding features like Tagging that everyone has wanted for 6
months... its a tough call. Going back to improve the foundation appeals
to my engineering sense though. *shrug* ;)

> ShadowPlan Rules!

	*g* Thanks :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: Re: re: scroll bar

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

> I don't know if this is possible, but what if the scroll bar went
> horizontally along the lowest portion of the screen? That way you solve the
> left hand, right hand issues. Also it could be optional in place of the
> second row of icons.  Have any other programs ever tried this? 

	I considered this.. but it just seems wrong ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 3:24pm
Subject: BETA AWAY!

http://shadow.skeleton.org/shadowmail/shadow-desktop/2001-October/000149.html

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Rick Low  <ral613@y...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 3:43pm
Subject: Re: Popup Scrollbar

A few suggestions for scrollbars based on what I've seen in PalmOS 
doc tools. They also have to deal with wildly varying file sizes, 
from one line to full books.

The freeware doc reader CSpotRun has a small indicator of where you 
are in a file at the present time. When you touch this indicator, a 
list pops up and lets you jump to top of document, 10%, 20%, 
30%, ..., 90% or bottom of document. If you want a precise location 
you jump to the nearest point and scroll from there. Most of the time 
the whole mechanism stays out of the way and only takes up room for a 
display like "V23%", where "V" is the little black triangle pop-up 
list symbol.

The doc editor QED has a thin horizontal bar with a slider. It works 
the same as Windows scrollbars except if you touch anywhere on the 
bar you jump there immediately.

--rick

From: BYRON E ALLGOOD  <1POPOLO@P...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:16pm
Subject: RE: Digest Number 258

PLEEEAAASE Jeff dont even consider leaving out tags. We have waited so long.
I bet even those who today dont understand its potential will do cartwheels
once it is implemented.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Original Message
Time will tell; priorities need to be determined. I could decrease
program size and increase speed, and decrease load and save times. Or I
could go adding features like Tagging that everyone has wanted for 6
months... its a tough call. Going back to improve the foundation appeals
to my engineering sense though. *shrug* ;)

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:08pm
Subject: RE: Digest Number 258

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, BYRON E ALLGOOD wrote:

> PLEEEAAASE Jeff dont even consider leaving out tags. We have waited so long.
> I bet even those who today dont understand its potential will do cartwheels
> once it is implemented.

	hehe. I definitely will not leaver it out. Its just a question of
what order things need to be done in :) So many good ideas to implement!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jack@c...
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:22pm
Subject: Datebk4 shadow and linkerhack

I am using linkerhack to go automatically from my todo list to my 
shadow list.

In standard todo list the link works fine -- in datebk 4 it doesn't 
follow the link.

Any suggestions

Jack

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 6:45pm
Subject: Re: Datebk4 shadow and linkerhack

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 jack@c... wrote:

> I am using linkerhack to go automatically from my todo list to my 
> shadow list.
> 
> In standard todo list the link works fine -- in datebk 4 it doesn't 
> follow the link.

	A number of people use LinkerHack in combination with Shadow and
DateBk4; apparently it works. I can't help you though.. I don't use the
hack myself. Just letting you know there are people who do :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 7:33pm
Subject: RE: Datebk4 shadow and linkerhack

>I am using linkerhack to go automatically from my todo list to my
>shadow list.
>
>In standard todo list the link works fine -- in datebk 4 it doesn't
>follow the link.

If it doesn't follow the link, then what does it do?  If it is opening up
the details for the todo, then tap the linked text from the details and it
will take you to shadow.  The links will not work with a single tap if your
todos are showing in the split-screen of db4.  The split-screen is actually
a table and you can't edit the todo text or anything unless you open the
details.  To make linker links work with one tap on the text, change db4 to
show the todos in integrated mode instead of the split-screen.  Otherwise
you will have to follow links by opening the details first and then tapping
the linked text.

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 10:57pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 258

Perhaps more trouble than it's worth...but how about some sort of a 
vote...a list of all the features with a brief description of 
each...and then a simple vote for priority...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, BYRON E ALLGOOD wrote:
> 
> > PLEEEAAASE Jeff dont even consider leaving out tags. We have 
waited so long.
> > I bet even those who today dont understand its potential will do 
cartwheels
> > once it is implemented.
> 
> 	hehe. I definitely will not leaver it out. Its just a 
question of
> what order things need to be done in :) So many good ideas to 
implement!
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Oct 17, 2001 11:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Digest Number 258

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:

> Perhaps more trouble than it's worth...but how about some sort of a 
> vote...a list of all the features with a brief description of 
> each...and then a simple vote for priority...

	I've thought about it, but factored in is also how tedious and
interesting something is to work on, and how much free time I have. If I
have a short time, I'll pick an item and knock it off the list. *shrug*

	I have considered a webpage with a running list of features where
people can place their priorities. But maintaining a feature list is
rough. If I ever make the desktop sync against a web page (I just might
;), this woudl be pretty doable, since I could maintain the page from
Shadow on my palm, and sync to pick up the priorities ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 4:19am
Subject: File Links

I'm starting to implement a table of contents similar to the one Jeff 
mentioned...pretty darned good idea.

Quick question, once I jump to the linked file, what's the quickest 
way to get back to my jumping off point?

Also, is record within a file linking coming?

Thanks...

From: m_harlow@v...
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 11:00am
Subject: Re: Datebk4 shadow and linkerhack

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., jack@c... wrote:
> I am using linkerhack to go automatically from my todo list to my 
> shadow list.
> 
> In standard todo list the link works fine -- in datebk 4 it doesn't 
> follow the link.
> 
> Any suggestions
> 
> Jack

Use the ShadowPlan link to get back to your todo list.  Just use the 
LinkerHack link to get from ToDo to shadowPath.

Matt

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 1:27pm
Subject: Re: File Links

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:

> I'm starting to implement a table of contents similar to the one Jeff 
> mentioned...pretty darned good idea.
> 
> Quick question, once I jump to the linked file, what's the quickest 
> way to get back to my jumping off point?

	Either use the "most recent files" popup, or make a link back. I
have file links pointing all over the darned place :) I really should make
a "Back" button, but I figured the Most Recent would do the job better. I
often keep a link to another file, and then the first link in that file is
a link back to where I woudl normally come from. But I'm funny that way :)

> Also, is record within a file linking coming?

	You mean linking to specific records in a file? Yes, thats on my
list of things to investigate. Not for awhile.. I need a break :) (no
vacation for me yet in a year or so)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: maclover88  <maclover88@m...>
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 2:18pm
Subject: Help

I hope I can ask this question here...
What does a window that's titled "Fatal Error"
and says  "MemoryMgrNew.c,Line:2982,Nill ID"  mean?

I was just done filling in the rest of my information into my newly
registered Shadow App and now my screen is frozen. There's a "Reset" buton
at the bottom but it doesn't do anything when I tap it.

I was trying to understand the best way to send information from one outline
to another and was switching between the "set hold 1" and "many" when it
died. The last thing I was doing before that was setting up my first links
within an outline.

This is the first time ever I have encountered this being a Palm user for 3
years now... 

I hit the reset button and my information seems intact but is there anything
I should do or not do next?

From: Gary Paulson  <gpaulson@o...>
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 4:01pm
Subject: Max Size for List Item and Notes?

I though I had seen the answer to this somewhere but tried looking in the
docs and the FAQ but could not see what the limit is for each item and for
the notes?

Is there any plan to increase (or remove) the maximum size of the notes?

From: pradley@r...
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 4:25pm
Subject: Desktop

I can't get the desktop to work. I input the first item, and then 
attempt to create either another new item or a child: what I get is 
an error message about the program having performed an illegal 
operation, so that it will now be terminated. Don't know what to do. 
Anyone else having such a problem? Philippe Radley

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 6:16pm
Subject: Re: Max Size for List Item and Notes?

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Gary Paulson wrote:

> I though I had seen the answer to this somewhere but tried looking in the
> docs and the FAQ but could not see what the limit is for each item and for
> the notes?

	A title can be around 250 characters, and a note can be about 4k.

> Is there any plan to increase (or remove) the maximum size of the notes?

	Its low down on my todo; I've only had 2 or 3 requests over the
year to do so :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Thu Oct 18, 2001 9:18pm
Subject: Re: File Links

Let me add my votes for the record linking and back button...could be 
really poweful stuff...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, Griff wrote:
> 
> > I'm starting to implement a table of contents similar to the one 
Jeff 
> > mentioned...pretty darned good idea.
> > 
> > Quick question, once I jump to the linked file, what's the 
quickest 
> > way to get back to my jumping off point?
> 
> 	Either use the "most recent files" popup, or make a link 
back. I
> have file links pointing all over the darned place :) I really 
should make
> a "Back" button, but I figured the Most Recent would do the job 
better. I
> often keep a link to another file, and then the first link in that 
file is
> a link back to where I woudl normally come from. But I'm funny that 
way :)
> 
> > Also, is record within a file linking coming?
> 
> 	You mean linking to specific records in a file? Yes, thats on 
my
> list of things to investigate. Not for awhile.. I need a break :) 
(no
> vacation for me yet in a year or so)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:04am
Subject: Re: BETA AWAY!

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> http://shadow.skeleton.org/shadowmail/shadow-desktop/2001-
October/000149.html

Unfortunately, I am unable to do any serious testing due to the fact 
that international characters are not (yet) supported. All my lists 
are in Dutch and crawling with international characters. I hope that 
lifting this limitation is near the top of your priority list for the 
desktop program.

Als, is it by design that the desktop cannot be registered? The 
dialog box I get says that it should turn into a registered version 
after the first hotsync (which it doesn't) unless I only registered 
the Palm side (which I did because when I registered, there was no 
desktop side yet). If this is by design, it does further limit my 
ability to fully test this application; perhaps this check should be 
omitted while the application is still in alpha/beta stage.

Roy.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:20am
Subject: Re: Desktop

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 pradley@r... wrote:

> I can't get the desktop to work. I input the first item, and then 
> attempt to create either another new item or a child: what I get is 
> an error message about the program having performed an illegal 
> operation, so that it will now be terminated. Don't know what to do. 
> Anyone else having such a problem? Philippe Radley

	4 other people. Its a bug in windows, and I've narrowed it
down.. just building a workaround right now. Its slow going, since I
cannot reproduce the problem :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:24am
Subject: Re: Help

On Thu, 18 Oct 2001, maclover88 wrote:

> I was just done filling in the rest of my information into my newly
> registered Shadow App and now my screen is frozen. There's a "Reset" buton
> at the bottom but it doesn't do anything when I tap it.
> 
> I was trying to understand the best way to send information from one outline
> to another and was switching between the "set hold 1" and "many" when it
> died. The last thing I was doing before that was setting up my first links
> within an outline.

	Its a bug in the application. Which version are you using?
Versions prior to 1.5.14 had a rarish bug. 1.5.14 fixes much of it, but it
can still show. The newer versions (alphas and betas) fix it even more if
not entirely. (Its a very elusive and annoying bug :/)

	My apolgoies for your encountering it; a new version will be out
in a week or so, and it has a few fixes and some new features.. be sure to
pick it up. (Join shadow-announce to be informed automatically)

> This is the first time ever I have encountered this being a Palm user
> for 3 years now...

	I'm surprised; bugs happen :/

> I hit the reset button and my information seems intact but is there
> anything I should do or not do next?

	I've forgotten the details of this, but it had something to do
with a certain series of steps involving the clipboard and multiple lists.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:30am
Subject: Re: Re: BETA AWAY!

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> Unfortunately, I am unable to do any serious testing due to the fact 
> that international characters are not (yet) supported. All my lists 
> are in Dutch and crawling with international characters. I hope that 
> lifting this limitation is near the top of your priority list for the 
> desktop program.

	Its the number one priority for after release; I have to get the
release out in a week or so, and the international character problem looks
like it'll take a week or two or more all by itself. (The code supports
it, Windows supports it, but talking XML, and various encoding, to
Windows, is a *huge* pain :/)

> Als, is it by design that the desktop cannot be registered? The dialog
> box I get says that it should turn into a registered version after the
> first hotsync (which it doesn't) unless I only registered the Palm
> side (which I did because when I registered, there was no desktop side
> yet). If this is by design, it does further limit my ability to fully
> test this application; perhaps this check should be omitted while the
> application is still in alpha/beta stage.

	It still warns you (gotta test that, too, right ;), but it doesn't
take effect until the application actually goes on sale.

	Definitely keep your eye on shadow-test or shadow-desktop; theres
been an update a day (or more ;), so keep on top of them (each one fixes
bugs :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Mylonas Antonis  <tonyelit@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 9:05am
Subject: Little Bug :Characters inserted when deleting linked to shadow items, repating events

It seems that when i link a shadow item to a datebk event then change it
to a repeating one and then 
delete an occurence (the first one), two characters are inserted in the
shadow items description 
which do not display in dtbk
Here is the case study
I have a shadow item linked to a datebook untimed event at a specific
date. 
I go to datebook application and reconfigure this event as a repeating
event.
Then i delete the initial datebk event and then go back to Shadow. The
date is unchanged and the link is not broken. 
When  i follow the link from the shadow item i go to the next occurence of
the event ( one month later).
However the shadow item now has 2 funny characters in front of the items
description.If i repeat this
procedure the same behaviour exists only the 2 characters change. Note
that t
hese 2 characters are not displayed in datebk and that if i delete these
characters from the shadow event the datebk event 
looses the first two characters
The good thing is that Shadow has the correct behaviour and links to the
next occurence if a repeating event :)
The bad thing is only cosmetic and not something that needs to be dealt
with immediately. :{
I only mention in case this signifies a biger problem with linked events
which could lead to data loss or even
worse to datebk database corruption under this scenario.
Further more as an additional feature it would be nice if the shadow items
date could be updated from the datebk item 
to which they actually point to.

Thanks Jeff

From: Schnitzler Marc  <Marc.Schnitzler@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 9:12am
Subject: Problem with sync

This is wierd... after installing the beta (i had the windows enhanced
version before)

Shadow does not want tom sync anymore :-(

This is the message of "lastsync.txt"

# Log started 1003482511
# Conduit Build 1.5.7 Oct 18 2001 22:53:28
# Syncronization type: 0 (eFast)
# SyncMgr API version: 2.2
# Hotsync ID: Marc Schnitzler
# Shadow version: 1.5.23 regcode: ????Aefk
#   Shadow on Handheld version is OK
# Registration: E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadowPlan.reg
# UNREGISTERED. Please register Shadow Plan Desktop!
#

# Enumerating databases on handheld.
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel internal'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Ändert sich was'
# Found 0:'ShadP-B1'
# Found 0:'ShadP-MBA'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Little white book'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Malik'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Projects'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Aragorn'

# Enumerating databases on desktop (E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\).
# Error or no files found when opening directory listing for
E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadP-*.XML!

# Syncronizing 10 databases.
# UNREGISTERED; Allowing BETA TEST to sync, however.

# ShadP-Citadel internal: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (1 recs)

# ShadP-Ändert sich was: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (33 recs)

# ShadP-B1: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (83 recs)

# ShadP-MBA: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (2 recs)

# ShadP-Little white book: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)

# ShadP-Malik: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (76 recs)

# ShadP-Citadel Projects: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (84 recs)

# ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (13 recs)

# ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)

# ShadP-Aragorn: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (18 recs)

# Log finished 1003482515


How can I force syncing?
Marc

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 9:45am
Subject: RE: Problem with sync

Marc,

At the risk of confusing things, let me try to help.  Jeff has built the conduit so that a list is synced only if the "sync
flag" is set, allowing you to select which lists sync especially during the test phase.

At this time, you must set the flag manually for each list that you wish to sync to the desktop.  To do this:

- open the list you wish to sync
- go to list/preferences and tap the sync box
- Hotsync and the list(s) should be transferred

Good luck

Neal

-----Original Message-----
From: Schnitzler Marc [mailto:Marc.Schnitzler@s...]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 11:12 AM
To: 'shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Problem with sync


This is wierd... after installing the beta (i had the windows enhanced
version before)

Shadow does not want tom sync anymore :-(

This is the message of "lastsync.txt"

# Log started 1003482511
# Conduit Build 1.5.7 Oct 18 2001 22:53:28
# Syncronization type: 0 (eFast)
# SyncMgr API version: 2.2
# Hotsync ID: Marc Schnitzler
# Shadow version: 1.5.23 regcode: ????Aefk
#   Shadow on Handheld version is OK
# Registration: E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadowPlan.reg
# UNREGISTERED. Please register Shadow Plan Desktop!
#

# Enumerating databases on handheld.
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel internal'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Ändert sich was'
# Found 0:'ShadP-B1'
# Found 0:'ShadP-MBA'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Little white book'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Malik'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Projects'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Aragorn'

# Enumerating databases on desktop (E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\).
# Error or no files found when opening directory listing for
E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadP-*.XML!

# Syncronizing 10 databases.
# UNREGISTERED; Allowing BETA TEST to sync, however.

# ShadP-Citadel internal: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (1 recs)

# ShadP-Ändert sich was: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (33 recs)

# ShadP-B1: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (83 recs)

# ShadP-MBA: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (2 recs)

# ShadP-Little white book: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)

# ShadP-Malik: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (76 recs)

# ShadP-Citadel Projects: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (84 recs)

# ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (13 recs)

# ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)

# ShadP-Aragorn: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (18 recs)

# Log finished 1003482515


How can I force syncing?
Marc

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shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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From: Schnitzler Marc  <Marc.Schnitzler@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:36am
Subject: RE: Problem with sync

Neal,

thx a lot... solved the problem :-)

Marc 

-----Original Message-----
From: Neal Cordle [mailto:NCordle@L...]
Sent: October 19, 2001 11:46 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Schnitzler Marc
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Problem with sync


Marc,

At the risk of confusing things, let me try to help.  Jeff has built the
conduit so that a list is synced only if the "sync
flag" is set, allowing you to select which lists sync especially during the
test phase.

At this time, you must set the flag manually for each list that you wish to
sync to the desktop.  To do this:

- open the list you wish to sync
- go to list/preferences and tap the sync box
- Hotsync and the list(s) should be transferred

Good luck

Neal

-----Original Message-----
From: Schnitzler Marc [mailto:Marc.Schnitzler@s...]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 11:12 AM
To: 'shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Problem with sync


This is wierd... after installing the beta (i had the windows enhanced
version before)

Shadow does not want tom sync anymore :-(

This is the message of "lastsync.txt"

# Log started 1003482511
# Conduit Build 1.5.7 Oct 18 2001 22:53:28
# Syncronization type: 0 (eFast)
# SyncMgr API version: 2.2
# Hotsync ID: Marc Schnitzler
# Shadow version: 1.5.23 regcode: ????Aefk
#   Shadow on Handheld version is OK
# Registration: E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadowPlan.reg
# UNREGISTERED. Please register Shadow Plan Desktop!
#

# Enumerating databases on handheld.
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel internal'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Ändert sich was'
# Found 0:'ShadP-B1'
# Found 0:'ShadP-MBA'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Little white book'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Malik'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Projects'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M'
# Found 0:'ShadP-Aragorn'

# Enumerating databases on desktop (E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\).
# Error or no files found when opening directory listing for
E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadP-*.XML!

# Syncronizing 10 databases.
# UNREGISTERED; Allowing BETA TEST to sync, however.

# ShadP-Citadel internal: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (1 recs)

# ShadP-Ändert sich was: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (33 recs)

# ShadP-B1: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (83 recs)

# ShadP-MBA: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (2 recs)

# ShadP-Little white book: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)

# ShadP-Malik: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (76 recs)

# ShadP-Citadel Projects: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (84 recs)

# ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (13 recs)

# ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)

# ShadP-Aragorn: Copy from handheld to desktop.
#   Read HH to internal list.
#   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (18 recs)

# Log finished 1003482515


How can I force syncing?
Marc

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Little Bug :Characters inserted when deleting linked to shadow items, repating events

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Mylonas Antonis wrote:

> It seems that when i link a shadow item to a datebk event then change it
> to a repeating one and then 
> delete an occurence (the first one), two characters are inserted in the
> shadow items description 
> which do not display in dtbk
> Here is the case study

	Confirmed; Shadow isn't properly seeing the exceptions to the
repeats, so displays them as text instead of hiding it from you. I'll fix
it soon as I can.

> I only mention in case this signifies a biger problem with linked events
> which could lead to data loss or even
> worse to datebk database corruption under this scenario.

	I don't think theres any harm that can come out, except for what
you describe. I'll look into it.. should be something I can fix pretty
quickly.

> Further more as an additional feature it would be nice if the shadow items
> date could be updated from the datebk item 
> to which they actually point to.

	Datebook objects have only on date; if you link from Shadow to a
datebook, then the target date becomes associated to the datebook
object. If you move the object to a new date, Shadow will pick that up and
update your target date. However, Shadow only knows about the object
pointed to (one of the recurring ones.. the latest one, I think).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:34pm
Subject: Re: Problem with sync

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Schnitzler Marc wrote:

> This is wierd... after installing the beta (i had the windows enhanced
> version before)
> 
> Shadow does not want tom sync anymore :-(

	As the lastsync.txt says, it syncs just fine. It just doesn't find
any Sync Flags set, so doesn't do anything. For your own safety and time
saving, Shadow only syncs those dtaabases you've told it to. Go to List
Preferences on the handheld, and check the Sync flag, and Shadow will
start to sync those lists. While in beta, you may wish to duplicate lists
you wish to sync, so that if the sync somehow goes horribly wrong, you're
still safe.

		jeff

> 
> This is the message of "lastsync.txt"
> 
> # Log started 1003482511
> # Conduit Build 1.5.7 Oct 18 2001 22:53:28
> # Syncronization type: 0 (eFast)
> # SyncMgr API version: 2.2
> # Hotsync ID: Marc Schnitzler
> # Shadow version: 1.5.23 regcode: ????Aefk
> #   Shadow on Handheld version is OK
> # Registration: E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadowPlan.reg
> # UNREGISTERED. Please register Shadow Plan Desktop!
> #
> 
> # Enumerating databases on handheld.
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel internal'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Ändert sich was'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-B1'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-MBA'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Little white book'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Malik'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Projects'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M'
> # Found 0:'ShadP-Aragorn'
> 
> # Enumerating databases on desktop (E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\).
> # Error or no files found when opening directory listing for
> E:\Privat\palm\SchnitM\ShadowPlan160\ShadP-*.XML!
> 
> # Syncronizing 10 databases.
> # UNREGISTERED; Allowing BETA TEST to sync, however.
> 
> # ShadP-Citadel internal: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (1 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-Ändert sich was: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (33 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-B1: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (83 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-MBA: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (2 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-Little white book: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-Malik: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (76 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-Citadel Projects: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (84 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-Citadel Supp Suite: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (13 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-Einarbeitung neue M: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (10 recs)
> 
> # ShadP-Aragorn: Copy from handheld to desktop.
> #   Read HH to internal list.
> #   SKIPPING: Sync request flag not set. (18 recs)
> 
> # Log finished 1003482515
> 
> 
> How can I force syncing?
> Marc
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 1:36pm
Subject: RE: Problem with sync

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Neal Cordle wrote:

> At the risk of confusing things, let me try to help.  Jeff has built
> the conduit so that a list is synced only if the "sync flag" is set,
> allowing you to select which lists sync especially during the test
> phase.

	Thanks Neal; I'm going to have to try to stop answering every
email I get ;) If you guys can help each other with out me jumping in all
the time, it'd probably save me a pile of time. And you guys are better at
Shadow than me anyway ;)

> At this time, you must set the flag manually for each list that you
> wish to sync to the desktop.  To do this:

	(Though lists created on the desktop and sent to the palm will
have the sync flag set implicitly.)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Many of you want inline editting.

	I brought up an option before that I could implement ASAP, but not
sure if its better for those that want inline editting.

	To me, inline editting is a way to enter raw text without leaving
thehierarchy. You lose the ability to enter dates and such along with
theitem text, at time of creation. (You'd have to hit Details to do it).

	So, you start writing, or hit New. If you have the pseudo-inline
pref set, Shadow instead of opening Details, would open a text field at
the bottom of the screen. A details window that just has a title text line
in it, and sits at the bottom of the screen. You could tap a little X to
finish, or hit Return maybe on the keyboard.

	This lets you see you hierarchy, and enter quicker, perhaps.

	Is this desirable?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Paolo Mangiafico  <paolo@m...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 2:33pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

I think inlined editing would be useful, especially if you're taking
notes in Shadow during a meeting or while brainstorming other times when
speed of input is most important.

While I'm sending this, another feature request (that I think you've
mentioned since I've been on the list, but I don't remember the status):
can you add some other filtering to the "New From" selection? If I've
entered something in my To Do app on the desktop and want to bring it
into Shadow, using the New From brings up many (all?) undated checked
items, and I have to scroll around a lot to find the new unchecked one
that I want to import. Could you filter by checked/unchecked there, or
by category, or other criteria other than week? Or am I just missing
something that would make this easier?

Thanks...

-- Paolo


Jeff Mitchell wrote (on Fri, 19 Oct 2001 at 10:19):

>
> 	Many of you want inline editting.
>
> 	I brought up an option before that I could implement ASAP, but not
> sure if its better for those that want inline editting.
>
> 	To me, inline editting is a way to enter raw text without leaving
> thehierarchy. You lose the ability to enter dates and such along with
> theitem text, at time of creation. (You'd have to hit Details to do it).
>
> 	So, you start writing, or hit New. If you have the pseudo-inline
> pref set, Shadow instead of opening Details, would open a text field at
> the bottom of the screen. A details window that just has a title text line
> in it, and sits at the bottom of the screen. You could tap a little X to
> finish, or hit Return maybe on the keyboard.
>
> 	This lets you see you hierarchy, and enter quicker, perhaps.
>
> 	Is this desirable?
>
> 		jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 2:38pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Jeff,

Would this be a list preference? If so, sounds great. I usually like things
the way they are now. Popping into details lets me set everything right
away. But there are times when I'm brainstorming that pseudo-inline would
be a benefit. Which brings an idea to mind: could this be an extra "button"
at the top of the list (add a P next to CFV) in order to toggle back and
forth? Just a thought. ShadoPlan Rules!!!

Scott


                                                                                                              
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                             
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                               
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                  
                                         Subject:     [shadow-discuss] Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.   
                    10/19/2001                                                                                
                    09:19 AM                                                                                  
                    Please                                                                                    
                    respond to                                                                                
                    shadow-discus                                                                             
                    s                                                                                         
                                                                                                              
                                                                                                              





           Many of you want inline editting.

           I brought up an option before that I could implement ASAP, but
not
sure if its better for those that want inline editting.

           To me, inline editting is a way to enter raw text without
leaving
thehierarchy. You lose the ability to enter dates and such along with
theitem text, at time of creation. (You'd have to hit Details to do it).

           So, you start writing, or hit New. If you have the pseudo-inline
pref set, Shadow instead of opening Details, would open a text field at
the bottom of the screen. A details window that just has a title text line
in it, and sits at the bottom of the screen. You could tap a little X to
finish, or hit Return maybe on the keyboard.

           This lets you see you hierarchy, and enter quicker, perhaps.

           Is this desirable?

                     jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 2:59pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> Would this be a list preference? If so, sounds great. I usually like things
> the way they are now. Popping into details lets me set everything right
> away. But there are times when I'm brainstorming that pseudo-inline would
> be a benefit. Which brings an idea to mind: could this be an extra "button"
> at the top of the list (add a P next to CFV) in order to toggle back and
> forth? Just a thought. ShadoPlan Rules!!!

	I was planning on a list pref, but I could add a [I] box for
in-line or something. Sounds like a neat idea.

	Its not inline per se.. it woudl be a details window, but a very
small text only one :)

	I guess I'll implement it, and see how it goes.. I sort of like
the idea :P

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Andrew  <acetuk@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Idea - Let children drive parent dates

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., m_harlow@v... wrote:
> In a post the other day, Jeff aksed what we thought of the idea of 
> letting the earliest child date drive the date on a parent.  I 
think 
> that's a great idea.  Here's my reasoning.
> 
> 1) If you are using a parent as a task and the children as sub 
tasks, 
> then each parent should be paid attention to on the date of it's 
> earliest child.
> 
> 2) If you checked off that earliest child, the date on the parent 
> would advance to the next earliest child and the project can go out 
> of mind w/o having to pop it open and review the dates on the 
> children every day.
> 
> 3) If you are still using the Palm todo app, you can link parents 
to 
> that app and by completing children each day, you palm todo list 
will 
> manage itself via the links.
> 
> What do others think of this idea?  I think it would really improve 
> the project management aspects of Shadow Plan.
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt

How about a slight take on this excellent idea?

Children need to be completed in the order is which they are listed, 
with only the next child in the list being the priority.

Change one childs end date and the next child in line adjusts 
accordingly.

I often use Shadow to plan a project in the order in which it needs 
to be done.  If I amend one entry to finish, for example, a week 
later than I originally planned, it would be nice to be able to link 
the following children in order so their dates adjust accordingly (a 
mini MS Project if you like).

This would be really useful to me.

From: Craig Stevens  <nsae1@v...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 4:55pm
Subject: In line editing

Hi Jeff,
	I love shadow but my single biggest problem with the shadow is the lack of
in line editing so if it is a matter of voting... Please do some option
where there is inline editing. You would let me dump another program I use
to make outlines and save me some memory. Shadow is so much better than the
other program but shadow's lack of inline editing is my only issue. ONE VOTE
FOR IN LINE EDITING:-)

Craig P. Stevens
Director
National School of Academic Equitation Inc.
11901-215th Place SE
Snohomish, WA 98296
(360)668-5242
Fax(360)668-7012
mailto:nsae1@v...
http://www.classical-equitation.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 5:09pm
Subject: Re: In line editing

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Craig Stevens wrote:

> 	I love shadow but my single biggest problem with the shadow is the lack of
> in line editing so if it is a matter of voting... Please do some option
> where there is inline editing. You would let me dump another program I use
> to make outlines and save me some memory. Shadow is so much better than the
> other program but shadow's lack of inline editing is my only issue. ONE VOTE
> FOR IN LINE EDITING:-)

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/miniedit1.gif

	How does that get you? Its not inline per se, but its an option to
let you create new items in the main screen, without losing your visual
context. I may add true inline editting down the road, but this is a
doable compromise thats now in 1.5.24. What do you think?

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 5:23pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Paolo Mangiafico wrote:

> I think inlined editing would be useful, especially if you're taking
> notes in Shadow during a meeting or while brainstorming other times when
> speed of input is most important.

	What do you think of this alternative?

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/miniedit1.gif

	A compromise..

> can you add some other filtering to the "New From" selection? If I've
> entered something in my To Do app on the desktop and want to bring it
> into Shadow, using the New From brings up many (all?) undated checked
> items, and I have to scroll around a lot to find the new unchecked one
> that I want to import. Could you filter by checked/unchecked there, or
> by category, or other criteria other than week? Or am I just missing
> something that would make this easier?

	I'll see what I can do, but I think I'll have to add that to 1.6.x
and not to 1.6.0; my deadline is fast approaching. However, once 1.6.0
goes out (and desktop goes out with it), I'll be focusing more on palm
*and* desktop, going back and forth. So you won't have to wait 4 months
for another update.. they should be more frequent.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Robert Beveridge  <bbeveridge@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

This is a good compromise (from one who ultimately would like to see "real"
  inline editing someday).

Bob B.

On Friday, October 19, 2001, at 10:23 AM, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Paolo Mangiafico wrote:
>
>> I think inlined editing would be useful, especially if you're taking
>> notes in Shadow during a meeting or while brainstorming other times when
>> speed of input is most important.
>
> 	What do you think of this alternative?
>
> http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/miniedit1.gif
>
> 	A compromise..
>


_________________________________________________________
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From: Dash  <just1dash@y...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:08pm
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Thanks for actively working on this!

This proposal might help as an interim measure, but in the long term 
does not get us where we want to go.  For one thing, it appears from 
what you say that this would only be initiated for a new item, not 
for editing existing items.

Further, one of the appeals for me of inline editing is that we could 
have one tap linking via the Linker hack.  As you can see by the 
periodic discussions on the topic, a significant number of power 
users appear to be using Linker to create cross-application links. 

If it would delay true inline editing, it might be just as well to 
wait for the real thing.  If it is not a significant use of your 
time, it would certainly be one step in the right direction.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Many of you want inline editting.
> 
> 	I brought up an option before that I could implement ASAP, 
but not
> sure if its better for those that want inline editting.
> 
> 	To me, inline editting is a way to enter raw text without 
leaving
> thehierarchy. You lose the ability to enter dates and such along 
with
> theitem text, at time of creation. (You'd have to hit Details to do 
it).
> 
> 	So, you start writing, or hit New. If you have the pseudo-
inline
> pref set, Shadow instead of opening Details, would open a text 
field at
> the bottom of the screen. A details window that just has a title 
text line
> in it, and sits at the bottom of the screen. You could tap a little 
X to
> finish, or hit Return maybe on the keyboard.
> 
> 	This lets you see you hierarchy, and enter quicker, perhaps.
> 
> 	Is this desirable?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:28pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001, Dash wrote:

> Thanks for actively working on this!

	In fact, its in the beta right now :)

> This proposal might help as an interim measure, but in the long term 
> does not get us where we want to go.  For one thing, it appears from 
> what you say that this would only be initiated for a new item, not 
> for editing existing items.

	Its everyones option. Right now you set it on a list by list
basis, so you can use the normal Details screen for some lists, the mini
editor for others. The current question is.. should there be two
prefs? (1) to use mini editor for new, and (2) to use mini editor for
Details?

	Or does everyone who wants mini editor want it all the time?

	(and if so, I have to add a Details button to the mini editor,
even though its very cramped as is, and I need to add some shortcuts and
such to bring it up).

	If you've got time, grab the beta... or check the screenshot:

http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/screenshots/miniedit1.gif

	I think its a good compromise, and looks nice too :)

> Further, one of the appeals for me of inline editing is that we could 
> have one tap linking via the Linker hack.  As you can see by the 
> periodic discussions on the topic, a significant number of power 
> users appear to be using Linker to create cross-application links. 

	We also have the reality that there are several camps; Shadow is
used by a huge variety of people. Many people like to edit everything all
in one place .. keep everything as one related package. Other people want
to quickly jot notes, or want structured text editing and couldn't care
less about the other details. Having two fully separate UIs is out of the
question -- too much work to support and maintain, bloats the application,
etc. 

	The current solution ought get you lots closer to where you want
to be :) 

	Once I get to adding behaviour modules and plugins to Shadow,
maybe we can get mroe inline editting.. a new UI personality. For now, its
a lot of work, duplicates a lot of code, and complicates support and
everything.

	(ie: Theres two camps; I'm in one, and doing both is tough, so I
chose one ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: keho@c...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 4:53am
Subject: linked To Do's sort problem?

I've looked through the posts and haven't seen this problem 
discussed, but please point me to it if I've missed it...

I'm having a problem with the way linked to do items created from 
within Shadow are sorted within the Palm ToDo database.

I've begun using Shadow to organize my projects at work, and am using 
the ToDo links for tasklist entries.  I've set up my options to have 
Shadow create the ToDo's in a particular category ("Business" in this 
case).  In the ToDo application, my default sort order is "Category, 
Priority".  When I view my to do's in Datebk4, they are also sorted 
by Category then Priority, as DB4 uses the sort order specified in 
the Palm ToDo application.  

The problem I'm having is this: It appears that when the linked 
ToDo's are created from within Shadow, they are not sorted correctly 
into the ToDo database according to the active sort order, as 
specified within the ToDo application.  They always sort to the 
beginning of the ToDo's in the ToDo database.  In order to get them 
to sort correctly, I have to go into the ToDo application, change the 
active sort order to something else and tap OK, then change it back 
to the way I really want it sorted and tap OK.

Has anyone else experienced this problem??

Thx.
Kelly

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 5:13am
Subject: Re: linked To Do's sort problem?

On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 keho@c... wrote:

> case).  In the ToDo application, my default sort order is "Category, 
> Priority".  When I view my to do's in Datebk4, they are also sorted 
> by Category then Priority, as DB4 uses the sort order specified in 
> the Palm ToDo application.  

	Which version of Shadow are you using? Since you can do link
categories, you're likely in 1.5.14, and all the Shadows since way back
(1.3.?) have made sure to use the proper sort ordering. (If not earlier
versions). If Shadow didn't sort it correctly, a lot of people would be
after me ;)

	Do you have another program or Hack that gets in there?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 6:29am
Subject: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

Jeff:

I must say I'm in the camp of those who would prefer "true" inline 
editing. I think those of us who use it "real-time" (.i.e. notes, in 
meetings) want the fastest data entry--inline delivers this.  Those 
individuals who use Shadow for planning (generally when more time is 
available) would prefer the current method.

Assuming the inline camp want it for initial fast data entry, can 
another input method be created?  My proposal (not sure if it can be 
done on the Palm)is to be able to import a outline fragment from a 
memo into a Shadow outline.  Of course, the outline fragment would 
need to follow existing import rules.  Also, importing a outline 
fragment from the clipboard directly into a Shadow outline would be 
preferable than saving to a file from memopad then importing directly 
into a Shadow list.

Is this doable?  Would others see this being useful as I do?

Norman

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Oct 20, 2001 4:14pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pseudo inline editting? Answer ASAP.

THoughts about mini-window :

What about, if three line mini-entry window :

Six buttons :

[Confirm] Would "send" the text but keep the  open for ongoing entry (to 
dismiss : tap outside mini-entry), and the entered taxt would appear just 
above the miniwindow (one item scroll in main screen)

[Cancel} Clears current entry  but keep the  open for ongoing entry
and (maybe on the left side) :

[Date] : would call the date part of detail dialog (in a three lines mini 
window) (while in date, confirm would bring you back to current text entry)
(a second tap on [Date] would open the full screen Detail editor)

[Note] : would "send" the entry for item note (a second tap on [Note] would 
open the full screen Note editor)

and [Next]  and [Child} :
[Next]  could confirm and clear for a new sibbling with one tap, a new 
upper level item with two taps
[Child}  could confirm and clear for  a new child entry


So the mini-windows could look like : 


Item entry : 

[Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
[Note]  ........................................  [Cancel}
[Next]  ........................................  [Child}



Dates entry : 

[Date]  Target...........      Auto #        [Confirm]
[Note]  Start.............      A-B-C         [Cancel}
[Next]  Finish.................................  [Child}


Note entry :

[Date]  ........................................  [Confirm]
[Title]  ........................................  [Cancel}
[Next]  ........................................  [Child}


That way : 

That would allow almost pure inline editing (ongoing, an eye on context)
Miniwindow could be in Shadow options (recalled at first character entry, 
when dismissed, )


Just for thoughts,


Jacques

Jacques Turbé