From: Dash  <just1dash@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 0:16am
Subject: Re: Linking inside a file

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 

> 	5) The master item will not know it has clones. Or maybe it 
will
> know, but it definitely will not know where they are. So the master 
cannot
> jump to children (could be any number of them, all over the durned 
place),
> and the children *can* jump to the master.
> 

Even if you could not jump to the clones, if you checked any of the 
related items off would this result in all the others being checked 
off as well?  It would be ok  to preserve the distinction between 
links and clones that Rick makes, but this interaction between clones 
and parents (check one, you check them all) is the key functionality 
that I am looking for.

This may sound terribly complicated, but would it be possible for 
parents and clones to be bi-directionally aware of their own parent 
and immediate clone?  If implemented properly, this would allow daisy 
chaining of clones and checking any item in the chain would 
cascade "upstream" and "downstream" like dominoes. I suppose that 
Rick's comment about complicated recursions would come into play, but 
most people are unlikely to create chains more than a few items long.

I'm not sure that this would work from a programming standpoint 
(that's your job!), but it makes conceptual sense.  Anyway, it's just 
another idea to throw in the pot!

From: ricardo131@y...
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:42am
Subject: Shadow-Test mailing list

All alphas and betas are open to the public.. just join
shadow-test mailing list and your'e all set.

		jeff

could you please specify where 
one could subscribe ?

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 5:20am
Subject: Re: Sync preferences

I don't see that you have a choice. If a user modifies both, there is 
no way of knowing what should clobber what so you have to preserve 
both and let the user decide how to fix things and where. If there is 
the option of an alert, that would help.


>	This is a long email; I sent it to shadow-desktop, but just to get
>everyones opinion, I'll repost here. Let me know ASAP your thoughts..


rest deleted
--

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Linking inside a file

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Dash wrote:

> Even if you could not jump to the clones, if you checked any of the 
> related items off would this result in all the others being checked 
> off as well?  It would be ok  to preserve the distinction between 

	Yep; they will be the same item .. same view override, same data,
etc.

> links and clones that Rick makes, but this interaction between clones 
> and parents (check one, you check them all) is the key functionality 
> that I am looking for.

	Yep; course. They're links, and not just cut/paste copies. The
only gotcha shoudl be the master won't be able to list his dependants, but
the dependants can always show who their original master is.

	(ie: If you link A to B, and then B to C, link C will show A as
his master.)

	The complication arises when you delete A :P Then it becomes a
"broken link", and the items will all break away and become their own
items (I guess, or delete themselves). We'll have to figure out how to
handle that.

> This may sound terribly complicated, but would it be possible for 
> parents and clones to be bi-directionally aware of their own parent 
> and immediate clone?  If implemented properly, this would allow daisy 

	No. It is possible, but it'd be pretty inefficient to handle (I
imagine). I've not gone into the low level design of this feature, but I'm
betting it could be too complex.. ie: Consider one item could be linked to
50 others. Woudl that parent record have to keep track of these 50
links? It'd be slow and ugly to load that item up when it has to verify
theintegrity of the clones..

	In general, it just doesn't seem well suited to the palm
minimalist approach..

> chaining of clones and checking any item in the chain would 
> cascade "upstream" and "downstream" like dominoes. I suppose that 
> Rick's comment about complicated recursions would come into play, but 
> most people are unlikely to create chains more than a few items long.

	Thats not a problem; checking one of them shoudl check all of
them. The way it will happen is it will not be immediate...

	ie: You check an item. When you close that item (save the list),
the check will get sent to the parent.

	When you open a clone item, it'll check the parent and notice the
change and check itself. 

	The only way you'd notice was if you checked a clone item, and
then beamed a list to someone before opening it.. the list wouldn't have
had a hznce to update its clones yet...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Shadow-Test mailing list

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:

> All alphas and betas are open to the public.. just join
> shadow-test mailing list and your'e all set.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> could you please specify where 
> one could subscribe ?

	Since alphas could be "dangerous", I make it a rule -- to join
shadow-test, you need to find out how to subscribe. Its on my website and
not hard to find ;) http://www.codejedi.com

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kwculp@y...
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:50pm
Subject: Deleting linked todo items

Is there a way to automatically delete a todo item from the todo 
database when removing it from my outline from within ShadowPlan?  
Otherwise it becomes necessary to visit the built-in ToDo application 
for each item I've removed.

There may be a preferences setting that allows me to do this... but I 
haven't located it yet.

Thank you,
Kevin

From: kwculp@y...
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 2:56pm
Subject: Re: Deleting linked todo items

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., kwculp@y... wrote:
> Is there a way to automatically delete a todo item from the todo 
> database when removing it from my outline from within ShadowPlan?  
> Otherwise it becomes necessary to visit the built-in ToDo 
application 
> for each item I've removed.
> 
> There may be a preferences setting that allows me to do this... but 
I 
> haven't located it yet.
> 
> Thank you,
> Kevin

BTW, I realize I can use the link manager to delete the link and the 
entry from the ToDo database -- but then I have to also delete the 
outline entry separately as well.  If there is a way to delete the 
linked entry from the outline itself and have it automatically yanked 
from ToDo that would be ideal.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:04pm
Subject: Re: Deleting linked todo items

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 kwculp@y... wrote:

> Is there a way to automatically delete a todo item from the todo 
> database when removing it from my outline from within ShadowPlan?  
> Otherwise it becomes necessary to visit the built-in ToDo application 
> for each item I've removed.

	Theres a pref: "Delete linked object with item" or somesuch. Its
in more recent versions, so be sure eto use 1.5.14 or later. Just go to
Help, then Preferences, and cycle over to the Link Prefs panel.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kwculp@y...
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 3:56pm
Subject: Re: Deleting linked todo items

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 kwculp@y... wrote:
> 
> > Is there a way to automatically delete a todo item from the todo 
> > database when removing it from my outline from within 
ShadowPlan?  
> > Otherwise it becomes necessary to visit the built-in ToDo 
application 
> > for each item I've removed.
> 
> 	Theres a pref: "Delete linked object with item" or somesuch. 
Its
> in more recent versions, so be sure eto use 1.5.14 or later. Just 
go to
> Help, then Preferences, and cycle over to the Link Prefs panel.
> 
> 		jeff
> 

Excellent!  I must have missed that preferences menu... thanks for 
the info.

Kevin

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:42pm
Subject: Preference for "Always Open ...list..."

I may have missed it, but is there a setting for making Shadow always 
open a certain file when using the hardware button? I use McPhling to 
go back and forth, esp between Datebk4 and Shadow. But I would like 
to be able to open my "In-Box" Shadow list with one push or such. 
And -- here's the kicker, I don't want to loose the flexibility of 
McPhling taking me right back to "where I was." Did I miss something?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 4:49pm
Subject: Re: Preference for "Always Open ...list..."

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> I may have missed it, but is there a setting for making Shadow always 
> open a certain file when using the hardware button? I use McPhling to 
> go back and forth, esp between Datebk4 and Shadow. But I would like 
> to be able to open my "In-Box" Shadow list with one push or such. 
> And -- here's the kicker, I don't want to loose the flexibility of 
> McPhling taking me right back to "where I was." Did I miss something?

	I've not yet built a "always load this list" function. But you
certainly can't have it both ways -- going back to your last list, and
going to one list all the time. That just doesn't make sense :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 5:46pm
Subject: Re: Preference for "Always Open ...list..."

Well, I can sure see how that would be a programming problem. But one 
can wish....   Actually, the back and forth is for when I am checking 
dates and schedules in order to set the todo dates beneficially. But 
having a "always load this list" would be good for the GThD 
methodology for me.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:
> 
> > I may have missed it, but is there a setting for making Shadow 
always 
> > open a certain file when using the hardware button? I use 
McPhling to 
> > go back and forth, esp between Datebk4 and Shadow. But I would 
like 
> > to be able to open my "In-Box" Shadow list with one push or such. 
> > And -- here's the kicker, I don't want to loose the flexibility 
of 
> > McPhling taking me right back to "where I was." Did I miss 
something?
> 
> 	I've not yet built a "always load this list" function. But you
> certainly can't have it both ways -- going back to your last list, 
and
> going to one list all the time. That just doesn't make sense :P
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Dash  <just1dash@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Linking inside a file

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Dash wrote:
> 
> > Even if you could not jump to the clones, if you checked any of 
the 
> > related items off would this result in all the others being 
checked 
> > off as well
> 
> 	Yep; course. They're links, and not just cut/paste copies. The
> only gotcha shoudl be the master won't be able to list his 
dependants, but
> the dependants can always show who their original master is.
> 
> 
While it might be nice to have the master be able to list all the 
dependent clones, the key feature is functional and this looks ok 
once you work out the particulars.  So, when can we expect to see 
this?  Next week some time?

Seriously, thanks for working so hard to satisfy a VERY demanding 
group of users.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: Linking inside a file

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001, Dash wrote:

> While it might be nice to have the master be able to list all the 
> dependent clones, the key feature is functional and this looks ok 
> once you work out the particulars.  So, when can we expect to see 
> this?  Next week some time?

	heh :P

	Not for awhile; new conduit is coming along nicely, and should be
going alpha with the desktop app soon (with luck, in a few days or week!).

> Seriously, thanks for working so hard to satisfy a VERY demanding 
> group of users.

	*bow*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:31pm
Subject: RE: Re: Preference for "Always Open ...list..."

How about 'always load this list' when launching shadow from a hardware
button only?  Just a thought.

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************



>> > go back and forth, esp between Datebk4 and Shadow. But I would
>like
>> > to be able to open my "In-Box" Shadow list with one push or such.
>> > And -- here's the kicker, I don't want to loose the flexibility
>of
>> > McPhling taking me right back to "where I was." Did I miss
>something?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:50pm
Subject: RE: Re: Preference for "Always Open ...list..."

On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 drumgirl313@y... wrote:

> How about 'always load this list' when launching shadow from a hardware
> button only?  Just a thought.

	That woudl address the other lads goals, but in general, most
others want an "always load list _____" pref, and I'd rather not have two
prefs.. "Load this list from hardkey: ____" and "Load this list from
non-hardkey: _____" :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: gardener  <rgarden@g...>
Date: Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:19pm
Subject: RE: Sync preferences

Just to add my $0.02 to the pot -
I too use PocketMirror, and I find that it's method of handling
duplicates works very well for me.  Given a choice, I'd like to
see Shadow handle duplicates the same way.

Thanks,
Robin G.

>    Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:25:31 +0200
>    From: "Neal Cordle" <ncordle@y...>
> Subject: RE: Sync preferences
>
> I use Chapura's PocketMirror to sync (white bread, I know,
> but it works for me!)  If there is data duplication, at the
> conclusion of a Sync there is a pop up that reads to the
> effect "Sync complete with 2 messages.  Click to view Log."
> I view the
> log, and there is a list of "exceptions" which reads
> something like "item number 37543 - Item Text - changed on
> both Palm and
> Desktop.  Item copied in both applications.  Delete unwanted item."
>
> Normally, I don't look at the sync log, however, if it tells
> me it had an exception, I'm interested.  I'd guess that other sync
> managers work the same, but since Pocket mirror is my only
> experience, thought I'd pass this along.
>
> Neal

From: ccahua@m...
Date: Sun Sep 2, 2001 7:21am
Subject: Shadow and Linker

I posted awhile back on linking items to a pic.
Rick Bram, the guy who started the doc format has updated his Linker 
program. It works quite well now with Shadow allowing me to link 
Shadow item text to other text in graphic apps such as BugMe (the 
target is the title text of a note).
Instead of the TealNote route I can now link a picture to my thought.
Aside from the up and down outlining interface, Shadow is looking 
more and more like the program of my dreams: PersonalBrain, from 
www.theBrain.com (don't bother asking them for a Palm version, I've 
tried for a year)
I've got to say that Shadow is my favorite program and I hope more 
people will take notice. Shadow is my PersonalBrain for the Palm. 
When the desktop hits, Shadow is going to be more awesome than it 
already is.
Thanks for everything, Jeff.

From: mcginnj@a...
Date: Sun Sep 2, 2001 2:46pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Linker

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., ccahua@m... wrote:

> I've got to say that Shadow is my favorite program and I hope more 
> people will take notice. Shadow is my PersonalBrain for the Palm. 

My sentiments exactly.


> When the desktop hits, Shadow is going to be more awesome than it 
> already is.

Any timeline for the desktop?


> Thanks for everything, Jeff.

I second that!

Just my 2¢,
Jo

From: ianf@f...
Date: Mon Sep 3, 2001 3:22am
Subject: Speeding up Register display

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 ianf@f... wrote:
> 
> > I guess one of the problems I'm having here is that the 
> > top-level register (display of all files) is slow on my m505.
> > Starting up Shadow when the app isn't open to a specific file
> > takes 3.5 secs with no hacks running. When Shadow is viewing
> > a file, though, startup is less than a second.
> > 
> > I suppose that Shadow does a full search of the memory 
> > for the ShadP- files each time it goes to the top-level register.
> > [...]
>
> 	You're exactly right (and observant ;). I don't cache the file
> listing in memory (deemed it wasteful), though I've been thinking
about it
> for awhile now. Caching it to a file doesn't seem like a good idea,
since
> you can beam things around and upload lists and the conduit can do
various
> tricks.. so it'd be rought okeep sensible. But caching after the
first
> load could be an option. Though, if you have 100 lists, with each
being
> about 30 bytes of info, you're blowing away 3k of runtime RAM ..
thats a
> fair amount in palm land. Course, I coudl stick it away into
permanent
> file area, and delete it on exit...
> 
> 	*shrug*
> 
> 	I'll be thinking about it :)


OK, thanks. McFile reports 379 dbs on my m505...
Waiting 3+secs multiple times in Shadow means
I use much the program much less than I'd like
(which is ALL the time :)

	- Ian.

From: ianf@f...
Date: Mon Sep 3, 2001 3:57am
Subject: Re: Getting things into Shadow...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> So I just figured something else out...the sort order is based on 
> category.
> 
> So, I just renamed my Inbox to have a space in front of it. This way 
> it will appear before the @stuff...and all the items from the inbox 
> will display first in the new from dialog.

A couple more suggestions for this thread:

  O When you enter a Todo outside shadow, include
    a visual identifier (two stars **, or your choice).
    You can then categorise the todo properly into
    it's category, and when you start up shadow 
    you just grab the ones with two stars then delete
    the stars in the Shadow entry. Maybe Jeff would even consider
    a filter on the "New From" option to show only
    Todos with a certain string (yes, as well as the 
    category filter :)
     
  O Not so sure about this idea, but it works, and might
    be good if you don't use priorities so much. Reserve
    the top priority "1" for things that have just arrived
    (Step "1" in your processing...?) You can categorise 
    the todo as a phone call, errand, whatever outside
    Shadow, then when you do a "New From", you can
    set your todo sort prefs to order by category and
    pick out the number 1's easily. Once they're in
    change prioity to the number you want, or to none...

Regards,

	- Ian.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Sep 3, 2001 4:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow and Linker

On Sun, 2 Sep 2001 mcginnj@a... wrote:

> > When the desktop hits, Shadow is going to be more awesome than it 
> > already is.
> 
> Any timeline for the desktop?

	All I can say is "soonish" -- I'm working my bones off trying to
get the conduit in order. Once its ready for release, the desktop will
fall into place, since its first release will be rudimentary. The conduit
does all the hard work. Its also very complex, and I don't wish to risk
data loss on anyone, so I'm being pretty careful and tight-lipped about it
:) That said, I hope to have a pretty useful conduit go to alpha ASAP, and
hopefully get some beta stuff out in a couple of weeks.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ianf@f...
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 1:42am
Subject: Feature request: todo font/colour settings

Hi,

Sorry, another feature request....

Any chance of a "todo preferences" dialog
that allows default colours/fonts to be
set for the todo categories?

Then, any shadow item linked to a todo
inherits the font/color from this default
setting. 

There are issues about whether the per-item
Shadow font/colour settings should take precedence
when an item is linked, but this seems doable..,?

I'd like this feature so that I can quickly
recognise todo categories in Shadow, and especially
to pick out certain categories (like waiting, that
requires no action at the moment).

Thanks!

	- Ian.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 2:16am
Subject: Re: Feature request: todo font/colour settings

Interesting idea; let me know again in awhile.. I'm actually away
from a pda and computer right now, stuck at a text terminal ;)  Colour and
font changes will ikely happen in awhile, but not right away, as theres
lots of other things I need to do yet.

		jeff

On Wed, 5 Sep 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Sorry, another feature request....
> 
> Any chance of a "todo preferences" dialog
> that allows default colours/fonts to be
> set for the todo categories?
> 
> Then, any shadow item linked to a todo
> inherits the font/color from this default
> setting. 
> 
> There are issues about whether the per-item
> Shadow font/colour settings should take precedence
> when an item is linked, but this seems doable..,?
> 
> I'd like this feature so that I can quickly
> recognise todo categories in Shadow, and especially
> to pick out certain categories (like waiting, that
> requires no action at the moment).
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 	- Ian.
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ianf@f...
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 2:30am
Subject: Re: Feature request: todo font/colour settings

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Interesting idea; let me know again in awhile.. I'm actually away
> from a pda and computer right now, stuck at a text terminal ;) 
Colour and
> font changes will ikely happen in awhile, but not right away, as
theres
> lots of other things I need to do yet.

OK, I'll put this is on my waiting list for a couple of months
(in red font :)

Thanks,

	- Ian.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 8:34pm
Subject: [German] Magazine's first part of Shadow tutorial

Palmtop-pro has put a Shadow tutorial into the next issue (days
away). They've put up the first few pages of it online here:

	http://www.palmtop-pro.com/magazine/shadow_025.htm

	Or specifically,

	http://www.palmtop-pro.com/magazine/shadow_025.htm

	If you can read German, have a peek :)

	The issue shoudl be available Tuesday for those interested and who
can buy it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tes08558@y...
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 8:58pm
Subject: Auto numbering -upgrade suggestion- would be nice to have a fourth level

Many of my outlines have more than three levels - I know you can auto-
number the fourth level from within that level, however it would be 
nice if you could do this right from the menu preference area.  Also, 
one little glitch is when you do the auto numbering from the fourth 
level and change from colored rows to black and white and back, you 
loose the fourth level numbering.

By the way, I just switched from ThoughManager and really like this 
program, this is in no way a complaint, rather just a suggestion.

Thanks

From: tes08558@y...
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 8:58pm
Subject: Auto numbering -upgrade suggestion- would be nice to have a fourth level

Many of my outlines have more than three levels - I know you can auto-
number the fourth level from within that level, however it would be 
nice if you could do this right from the menu preference area.  Also, 
one little glitch is when you do the auto numbering from the fourth 
level and change from colored rows to black and white and back, you 
loose the fourth level numbering.

By the way, I just switched from ThoughManager and really like this 
program, this is in no way a complaint, rather just a suggestion.

Thanks

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Sep 5, 2001 9:25pm
Subject: Re: Auto numbering -upgrade suggestion- would be nice to have a fourth level

On Wed, 5 Sep 2001 tes08558@y... wrote:

> Many of my outlines have more than three levels - I know you can auto-
> number the fourth level from within that level, however it would be 
> nice if you could do this right from the menu preference area.  Also, 
> one little glitch is when you do the auto numbering from the fourth 
> level and change from colored rows to black and white and back, you 
> loose the fourth level numbering.

	So if you mess with colours, you lose your autonumbering? Thats
no good :P

	Theres an old suggestion hanging around for a better way to handle
deeper autonumbering. Hopefully once the desktop app settles down I can
get more into it.

> By the way, I just switched from ThoughManager and really like this 
> program, this is in no way a complaint, rather just a suggestion.

	Glad you like it, and welcome aboard :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: frazure@m...
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2001 1:19pm
Subject: Speeding Shadow

Jeff -

I have an m500 and Shadow has grown to 1188 records, and about 330k.  
This is down from 1500 records before I deleted my Completed Category.

Is there a way to speed access from the 3-4 second delays?

During the work day, I use Shadow, DateBook, and Phone List; nothing 
else.

Is there an option of keeping everything in RAM, or some other tech 
magic?

Thanks,

Mike

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Sep 9, 2001 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Speeding Shadow

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 frazure@m... wrote:

> I have an m500 and Shadow has grown to 1188 records, and about 330k.  
> This is down from 1500 records before I deleted my Completed Category.
> 
> Is there a way to speed access from the 3-4 second delays?

	There are development solutions I'll be looking into later. As to
user solutions, using a later OS like you are is the first step (so you're
covered), using a good machine (like yours; anythign halfway recent is
fine). A clocker like AfterBurner can help. I have not benchmarked to see.

	Shadow is optimized for run-time efficiency; development solution
is to work towards load-time optimizations, and eventually save-time
optimizations.

> Is there an option of keeping everything in RAM, or some other tech 
> magic?

	PalmOS is single tasking (effectively), so theres not much I can
do easily. Steps to improve speed will be some serious changes to the
inner workings, based on things I've learned over time, user usage
patterns and expectations and such.

	If you wish to toy around with AfterBurner or slomesuch, let us
know how well it works out.. I've tested enogh to know Shadow works 100%
with these guys, and it does improve things, but not sure by how much.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ianf@f...
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 3:20am
Subject: Re: Speeding Shadow

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2001 frazure@m... wrote:
> 
> > I have an m500 and Shadow has grown to 1188 records, and about
330k.  
> > This is down from 1500 records before I deleted my Completed
Category.
> > 
> > Is there a way to speed access from the 3-4 second delays?
> 
> 	There are development solutions I'll be looking into later. As to
> user solutions, using a later OS like you are is the first step (so
you're
> covered), using a good machine (like yours; anythign halfway recent
is
> fine). A clocker like AfterBurner can help. I have not benchmarked
to see.

I bit the bullet last weekend and re-organised my many small
Shadow lists into far fewer larger lists. For instance I put 
forty separate project lists (each with not so many entries)
into a single "General projects". Repeating this all over the
place I went from 100+ shadow lists to around 30.

I mainly did this to make it easier to get from one of these
lists to another (they're now in the same list), but as I was 
making the changes, it seemed that Shadow was getting faster.
And it was. Much faster. By the end, the time to display the
 register list, or to bring up the link manager, had dropped 
from 3-4 secs (with over 100 lists) to around 1 sec. 

So, a short-term solution is to reduce your number of lists.
It takes a while, though, because there were no options
I could find for "move entire list to clipboard". Maybe 
some UI options for moving entire shadow lists <--> sub-parts
of other lists would be good addition for the future?

	- Ian.

From: ianf@f...
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 3:24am
Subject: Link manager buglet

Just a small problem:

If you have the "default category for todo" set for
a list and you use the link manager to "Link to database",
the category is set properly (can check this by looking
in the todo app), but the link manager displays "Unfiled".
If you use the popup to select the correct category, it
still says "unfiled", until you close the link manager 
window and re-open it.

Thanks,

	- Ian.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 3:34am
Subject: Re: Re: Speeding Shadow

On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> I mainly did this to make it easier to get from one of these
> lists to another (they're now in the same list), but as I was 
> making the changes, it seemed that Shadow was getting faster.
> And it was. Much faster. By the end, the time to display the
>  register list, or to bring up the link manager, had dropped 
> from 3-4 secs (with over 100 lists) to around 1 sec. 

	Each time Shadow needs to show lists or subsets, it has to scan
the Palm filesystem .. which is very very slow :/

> So, a short-term solution is to reduce your number of lists.
> It takes a while, though, because there were no options
> I could find for "move entire list to clipboard". Maybe 

	Multiclip?

	Just keep going copy, copy, copy, copy, copy, then switch list
(using the recent list popup) and clip/Move?

> some UI options for moving entire shadow lists <--> sub-parts
> of other lists would be good addition for the future?

	A merge is definitely on my todo..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 3:35am
Subject: Re: Link manager buglet

On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> Just a small problem:
> 
> If you have the "default category for todo" set for
> a list and you use the link manager to "Link to database",
> the category is set properly (can check this by looking
> in the todo app), but the link manager displays "Unfiled".
> If you use the popup to select the correct category, it
> still says "unfiled", until you close the link manager 
> window and re-open it.

	yeah, a repaint problem. Someone pointed this out a little while
ago, and a fix ought be in soon. Keeping my head in the desktop hole is
making me forgetful ;)

	(But I can make new items and chaneg stuff on my desktop now
.. you just wait ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ianf@f...
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 8:54am
Subject: Re: Speeding Shadow

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > So, a short-term solution is to reduce your number of lists.
> > It takes a while, though, because there were no options
> > I could find for "move entire list to clipboard". Maybe 
> 
> 	Multiclip?
> 
> 	Just keep going copy, copy, copy, copy, copy, then switch list
> (using the recent list popup) and clip/Move?

For this purpose of grabbing a whole list,
things would be speeded up a lot if the current focus 
moved to the next item when you did a copy. Might be
confusing at other times though...

Perhaps when cutting an item the focus could move to the
next item, rather than disappearing, as it does now?

Thanks,

	- Ian.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 11:34am
Subject: Re: Re: Speeding Shadow

On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> For this purpose of grabbing a whole list,
> things would be speeded up a lot if the current focus 
> moved to the next item when you did a copy. Might be
> confusing at other times though...
> 
> Perhaps when cutting an item the focus could move to the
> next item, rather than disappearing, as it does now?

	Good idea; added to my todo :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kwculp@y...
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 0:19pm
Subject: HiRes assist on Clie 610

Using the high resolution assist feature on the Clie (610 and 710) 
enhances the clarity of text in most programs by smoothing the fonts 
and taking advantage of the higher pixel density.  Programs do not 
need to be designed to specifically take advantage of this capability.

But -- hires assist crashes ShadowPlan, requiring a soft reset.  Is 
there a way around this?  Alternatively -- Jeff, would this be an 
easy thing to fix in the next release, or is the manner in which 
ShadowPlan writes to the screen considerably different than most 
other programs?

Thank you,
Kevin

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 0:29pm
Subject: Re: HiRes assist on Clie 610

On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 kwculp@y... wrote:

> Using the high resolution assist feature on the Clie (610 and 710) 
> enhances the clarity of text in most programs by smoothing the fonts 
> and taking advantage of the higher pixel density.  Programs do not 
> need to be designed to specifically take advantage of this capability.
> 
> But -- hires assist crashes ShadowPlan, requiring a soft reset.  Is 
> there a way around this?  Alternatively -- Jeff, would this be an 
> easy thing to fix in the next release, or is the manner in which 
> ShadowPlan writes to the screen considerably different than most 
> other programs?

	There is a bug in the Clie OS that crashes when you try and paint
backgrounds in certain areas of the screen in hires assist mode. It
doesn't show in the Clie emulator and you can't get Clie's in Canada yet,
so its very difficult to find :/

	You can disable hires assist, or disable col-bg mode (that causes
coloured backgrounds), and you'll be fine.

	I am debating making col-bg default to off, so that new users
won't have the problem, but I dislike that :/ If I can get my hands on a
Clie ... :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Barbara Heaney  <baheaney@h...>
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 4:07pm
Subject: linking question

Hi all,

I have a question.  This is what I would like to do:   I would like to link 
items in my shadow list to my DB4 as a to do item.  Then have them 
sometimes repeat.  For example, I would like to put the item "sweep and 
clean the back porch" into my calendar every month.  It is part of a 
cleaning list in shadow, is there a way to list it and have it reoccur each 
month?  If so, can it be listed so that I can check it off in DB4 and then 
it will also be checked off in Shadow?

I have tried to figure out the Link Manager but I seem to be clueless on 
this.  Each time I try I get different results.

Is there a primer or tutorial on how to use these (linking) features?

Thanks,
Barbara

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 6:31pm
Subject: Re: linking question

On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Barbara Heaney wrote:

> I have a question.  This is what I would like to do:   I would like to link 
> items in my shadow list to my DB4 as a to do item.  Then have them 
> sometimes repeat.  For example, I would like to put the item "sweep and 
> clean the back porch" into my calendar every month.  It is part of a 
> cleaning list in shadow, is there a way to list it and have it reoccur each 
> month?  If so, can it be listed so that I can check it off in DB4 and then 
> it will also be checked off in Shadow?

	Its a bit complicated due to the nature of Palm OS and linking and
todo type objects.

	You can create the original item in Shadow, and link it over to
the todo database and have Datebook4 show that.. no problem. You can set
up the repeat in datebook4, no problem. Whethor the check will show is up
to datebook4, but consider -- if you have a single item in Shadow linked
to an item that repeats in DB4.. then which checkbox are you talking
about? The newest one? Or some previous-repeatee?

	In practice, I think Shadow will stay linked to the newest item in
DB4, and so it might remain checked until the object replicates. So this
might be what you want.

> I have tried to figure out the Link Manager but I seem to be clueless on 
> this.  Each time I try I get different results.

	Just tap on the arrow beside "todo" and pick "link to database" or
the like. Then you can flip over to Db4 and see it as normal. (You can
link to the datebook database, and/or the todo database. DB4 lets you see
both of them at once if you like)

> Is there a primer or tutorial on how to use these (linking) features?

	No, but there should be. Anyone want to help? :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Andy Tinkham  <andy@t...>
Date: Mon Sep 10, 2001 7:15pm
Subject: RE: linking question

Here's how I set up chores like that (I use DateBk4, and have chores already
set up like this):

1. Create the list in Shadow.  I generally use a custom list type that has
the ToDo Link column and the Data Due column visible.  You could do it
through the more general Link Manager as well, but I don't.

2. Set the Date Due to the next time that you want to do the chore.

3. Click the ToDo Link column box so the little T appears in the box.  This
creates the ToDo, in the category that is assigned to the list as a whole
(List menu -> Preferences -> Opt button on Prefs dialog -> Create todos in:
field).

4. I use Todo+ to set the repeat options for the Todos.  After creating the
ToDo in Shadow, I go to ToDo+, and set the repeat (for example, the third
Saturday of every month).

5. The chore now shows up in DateBk4 for the date chosen to do it.  When I
do the chore, I check it off in DateBk4.  Shadow sees the completion and so
the chore is checked off in there.  The next time ToDo+ runs, it sees that
the task is completed and generates the repeat.  The completed task becomes
unlinked with Shadow, while Shadow keeps linked with the uncompleted repeat.
Then, going into Shadow shows the chore as uncompleted with a completion
date of the next time I want to do the chore.

6. I use a program called LookAtMe to automatically run ToDo+ every night
and update the chores.  Everything seems to work just fine for me.

If you don't want to set a specific date for doing the chore, you could set
it to regenerate 1 month after each time you do it, or a program called Redo
might be useful for you (though I haven't tried that one, and from what I
know of it, it probably wouldn't keep the Shadow linkage).

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-2644902-2143-1000147299-andy=tinkham.org@r...
[mailto:sentto-2644902-2143-1000147299-andy=tinkham.org@r...
com]On Behalf Of Jeff Mitchell
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 1:32 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] linking question


On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Barbara Heaney wrote:

> I have a question.  This is what I would like to do:   I would like to
link
> items in my shadow list to my DB4 as a to do item.  Then have them
> sometimes repeat.  For example, I would like to put the item "sweep and
> clean the back porch" into my calendar every month.  It is part of a
> cleaning list in shadow, is there a way to list it and have it reoccur
each
> month?  If so, can it be listed so that I can check it off in DB4 and then
> it will also be checked off in Shadow?

	Its a bit complicated due to the nature of Palm OS and linking and
todo type objects.

	You can create the original item in Shadow, and link it over to
the todo database and have Datebook4 show that.. no problem. You can set
up the repeat in datebook4, no problem. Whethor the check will show is up
to datebook4, but consider -- if you have a single item in Shadow linked
to an item that repeats in DB4.. then which checkbox are you talking
about? The newest one? Or some previous-repeatee?

	In practice, I think Shadow will stay linked to the newest item in
DB4, and so it might remain checked until the object replicates. So this
might be what you want.

> I have tried to figure out the Link Manager but I seem to be clueless on
> this.  Each time I try I get different results.

	Just tap on the arrow beside "todo" and pick "link to database" or
the like. Then you can flip over to Db4 and see it as normal. (You can
link to the datebook database, and/or the todo database. DB4 lets you see
both of them at once if you like)

> Is there a primer or tutorial on how to use these (linking) features?

	No, but there should be. Anyone want to help? :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Barbara Heaney  <baheaney@h...>
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2001 0:40am
Subject: RE: linking question

Wow!  This is exactly what I want to do!!!  Thank you!

Now, where can I find LookAtMe??

Barbara


At 02:15 PM 9/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's how I set up chores like that (I use DateBk4, and have chores already
>set up like this):
>
>1. Create the list in Shadow.  I generally use a custom list type that has
>the ToDo Link column and the Data Due column visible.  You could do it
>through the more general Link Manager as well, but I don't.
>
>2. Set the Date Due to the next time that you want to do the chore.
>
>3. Click the ToDo Link column box so the little T appears in the box.  This
>creates the ToDo, in the category that is assigned to the list as a whole
>(List menu -> Preferences -> Opt button on Prefs dialog -> Create todos in:
>field).
>
>4. I use Todo+ to set the repeat options for the Todos.  After creating the
>ToDo in Shadow, I go to ToDo+, and set the repeat (for example, the third
>Saturday of every month).
>
>5. The chore now shows up in DateBk4 for the date chosen to do it.  When I
>do the chore, I check it off in DateBk4.  Shadow sees the completion and so
>the chore is checked off in there.  The next time ToDo+ runs, it sees that
>the task is completed and generates the repeat.  The completed task becomes
>unlinked with Shadow, while Shadow keeps linked with the uncompleted repeat.
>Then, going into Shadow shows the chore as uncompleted with a completion
>date of the next time I want to do the chore.
>
>6. I use a program called LookAtMe to automatically run ToDo+ every night
>and update the chores.  Everything seems to work just fine for me.
>
>If you don't want to set a specific date for doing the chore, you could set
>it to regenerate 1 month after each time you do it, or a program called Redo
>might be useful for you (though I haven't tried that one, and from what I
>know of it, it probably wouldn't keep the Shadow linkage).
>
>Andy

From: run@c...
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2001 2:50am
Subject: Fatal Error converting to html

Hello,

   I have been a registerd user of ShadowPlan and a lurker here:-)for 
awhile now and really like it. I did though just run across a bit of 
a problem. I'm using a Clie 710 and the only hack I have is 
Laptophack. I have a few apps in Flash using Jack Flash but no other 
exotic programs or OS mods. 

The problem is that I have multiple Shadow files and wanted to 
convert two of them to html. The two I wanted converted are 9851 
bytes with 41 tasks and the second 5757 bytes with 36 tasks. I ran 
both through the convert to doc menu and selected html as the format. 
The first larger file causes a fatel error and the clie needs to be 
reset while the second smaller file works.

Upon returning from the reset the two files show up in the Wordsmith 
doc view, the one made from the larger file is 0k in size but when 
you try to open it it asks for a password. The second works and is 
html code. The code though is not properly formatted, with improper 
paragraph and tab tags. It may be that this is a feature that hasnt 
been finalized yet and if thats the case sorry for the trouble. I 
have been in the field everyday for awhile and havent been lurking 
lately so I thought I would just drop this here for Jeff. In all 
other ways the program is excelent and I cant wait for the html as 
its something I want to use very much. 

Thanks for a great product keep up the good work.

Rick

From: Andy Tinkham  <andy@t...>
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2001 4:14am
Subject: RE: linking question

I found it at the author's site:

www.duckpond.mv.com/Ftp/Pilot/look.zip

The about screen says that to register it, you need to send mail to an
address.  I did this, and never got a reply, but it hasn't expired on me
either, so apparently using the unregistered version is ok.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From:
sentto-2644902-2145-1000174629-andy=tinkham.org@r...
[mailto:sentto-2644902-2145-1000174629-andy=tinkham.org@r...
com]On Behalf Of Barbara Heaney
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:41 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] linking question


Wow!  This is exactly what I want to do!!!  Thank you!

Now, where can I find LookAtMe??

Barbara


At 02:15 PM 9/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Here's how I set up chores like that (I use DateBk4, and have chores
already
>set up like this):
>
>1. Create the list in Shadow.  I generally use a custom list type that has
>the ToDo Link column and the Data Due column visible.  You could do it
>through the more general Link Manager as well, but I don't.
>
>2. Set the Date Due to the next time that you want to do the chore.
>
>3. Click the ToDo Link column box so the little T appears in the box.  This
>creates the ToDo, in the category that is assigned to the list as a whole
>(List menu -> Preferences -> Opt button on Prefs dialog -> Create todos in:
>field).
>
>4. I use Todo+ to set the repeat options for the Todos.  After creating the
>ToDo in Shadow, I go to ToDo+, and set the repeat (for example, the third
>Saturday of every month).
>
>5. The chore now shows up in DateBk4 for the date chosen to do it.  When I
>do the chore, I check it off in DateBk4.  Shadow sees the completion and so
>the chore is checked off in there.  The next time ToDo+ runs, it sees that
>the task is completed and generates the repeat.  The completed task becomes
>unlinked with Shadow, while Shadow keeps linked with the uncompleted
repeat.
>Then, going into Shadow shows the chore as uncompleted with a completion
>date of the next time I want to do the chore.
>
>6. I use a program called LookAtMe to automatically run ToDo+ every night
>and update the chores.  Everything seems to work just fine for me.
>
>If you don't want to set a specific date for doing the chore, you could set
>it to regenerate 1 month after each time you do it, or a program called
Redo
>might be useful for you (though I haven't tried that one, and from what I
>know of it, it probably wouldn't keep the Shadow linkage).
>
>Andy




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2001 10:15am
Subject: Fatal error on "Done"

I've suddenly started getting Fatal Errors when pressing the "Done"
button after opening item "Details" (rest of buttons work fine including
link manager). The fact that they've just started suggests a conflict?
with some other software I've loaded (I fiddle a lot!).

I use a TRGPro with OS 3.5.1, run Quickbits, Xmaster loaded & running
McPhling and Middlecaps. Recently (re)loaded software includes Isolo 2.8
and Wordsmith 2.0.

Anybody else experienced this? Any clues as to what the conflict might
be? 

Thanks


David
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2001 1:21pm
Subject: Re: Fatal Error converting to html

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 run@c... wrote:

> Upon returning from the reset the two files show up in the Wordsmith 
> doc view, the one made from the larger file is 0k in size but when 
> you try to open it it asks for a password. The second works and is 
> html code. The code though is not properly formatted, with improper 
> paragraph and tab tags. It may be that this is a feature that hasnt 
> been finalized yet and if thats the case sorry for the trouble. I 
> have been in the field everyday for awhile and havent been lurking 
> lately so I thought I would just drop this here for Jeff. In all 
> other ways the program is excelent and I cant wait for the html as 
> its something I want to use very much. 

	Hmm, strange. I shall have to revisit the export system and make
sure its stable. Due to the teeny 43k limit of memos, its a little tight
so I might be cramming too much into each memo or somesuch.

	The desktop app will have a very simple export-to-html as well,
which will likely be more useful since it can write out one big file a lot
easier than a palm can :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Sep 11, 2001 1:37pm
Subject: Re: Fatal error on "Done"

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, David Keltie wrote:

> I've suddenly started getting Fatal Errors when pressing the "Done"
> button after opening item "Details" (rest of buttons work fine including
> link manager). The fact that they've just started suggests a conflict?
> with some other software I've loaded (I fiddle a lot!).

	Are you doing a lot of cut and paste? There is a known bug that
can show up in rare cases .. its still in 1.5.14, but is mostly fixed in
later versions.

> I use a TRGPro with OS 3.5.1, run Quickbits, Xmaster loaded & running
> McPhling and Middlecaps. Recently (re)loaded software includes Isolo 2.8
> and Wordsmith 2.0.

	I've not heard of any problems with those.

> Anybody else experienced this? Any clues as to what the conflict might
> be? 

	If you're not doing any cut and paste, than its likely some hack,
but those seam okay :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 2:12am
Subject: I just wanted to say ..

Every single person I know has been mortified today -- glued to
the internet, their televisions, their radios, watching, listening in
horror. 

	My sincerest condolences to families, friends, fire fighters, and
every day heroes. My heart goes out to you and us all.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:19am
Subject: RE: Fatal error on "Done"

Thanks Jeff. I do little cut and paste so it isn't that. I'm reluctant
to clean everything out and just run Shadow apart from the built-ins to
track things down, as I've just recently got an exchange machine after
having massive problems with system freeze ups follow crashes. It meant
backing up to the CF card after almost every entry to safeguard data and
considerable unloading and re-installing software to resolve what proved
to be a hardware problem! 
 
So any other ideas out there?
 
Cheers
 
David
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: 11 September 2001 14:38
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Fatal error on "Done"


On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, David Keltie wrote:

> I've suddenly started getting Fatal Errors when pressing the "Done"
> button after opening item "Details" (rest of buttons work fine
including
> link manager). The fact that they've just started suggests a conflict?
> with some other software I've loaded (I fiddle a lot!).

      Are you doing a lot of cut and paste? There is a known bug that
can show up in rare cases .. its still in 1.5.14, but is mostly fixed in
later versions.

> I use a TRGPro with OS 3.5.1, run Quickbits, Xmaster loaded & running
> McPhling and Middlecaps. Recently (re)loaded software includes Isolo
2.8
> and Wordsmith 2.0.

      I've not heard of any problems with those.

> Anybody else experienced this? Any clues as to what the conflict might
> be? 

      If you're not doing any cut and paste, than its likely some hack,
but those seam okay :/

            jeff



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: AndrewLeach@o...
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 9:09am
Subject: America Disaster

I don't know if this an appropriate forrum for this message but as a 
fellow Palm user & fellow human being I wish to express my very deep 
sadnes & sorry to all those in America who have been touched by this 
barbaric act of terrorism.  I live in Melbourne Australia & I am on 
the road with my job & everwhere I have gone today people are deeply 
shocked & sadened by what has happened ,it has touched all of us  & 
although I am not a religious person I will be say a prayer for all 
those victims , families of the victims & friends . America you are 
not alone in your grief ( I'm sorry if this sounds very corny)I wish 
I could express my grief at what has happened but I can't think of 
anything else to write.    Andrew Leach  Melbourne  Victoria Australia

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 11:40am
Subject: RE: Fatal error on "Done"

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, David Keltie wrote:

> Thanks Jeff. I do little cut and paste so it isn't that. I'm reluctant
> to clean everything out and just run Shadow apart from the built-ins to
> track things down, as I've just recently got an exchange machine after
> having massive problems with system freeze ups follow crashes. It meant
> backing up to the CF card after almost every entry to safeguard data and
> considerable unloading and re-installing software to resolve what proved
> to be a hardware problem! 
>  
> So any other ideas out there?

	It doesn't always happen, right? Random lists, oncein
awhile? Always following cut and paste, or something else?

	Try using 1.5.15; it has a patch in for the clipboard, though one
lad may have found a way to cause a problem still.

	http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow1515.zip

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 0:59pm
Subject: RE: Fatal error on "Done"

At present, the fatal error nearly always happens when I press done!
Even when I just open up, go to any list and try to enter new or edit
existing item details.
 
I'll report back when I've tried 1.5.15.
 
Thanks
 
 
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: 12 September 2001 12:41
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Fatal error on "Done"


It doesn't always happen, right? Random lists, oncein
awhile? Always following cut and paste, or something else?

      Try using 1.5.15; it has a patch in for the clipboard, though one
lad may have found a way to cause a problem still.

      http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow1515.zip

            Jeff



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 1:58pm
Subject: RE: Fatal error on "Done"

Strange. That does sound like a naughty hack :/

		jeff

On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, David Keltie wrote:

> At present, the fatal error nearly always happens when I press done!
> Even when I just open up, go to any list and try to enter new or edit
> existing item details.
>  
> I'll report back when I've tried 1.5.15.
>  
> Thanks
>  
>  
> David
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
> Sent: 12 September 2001 12:41
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Fatal error on "Done"
> 
> 
> It doesn't always happen, right? Random lists, oncein
> awhile? Always following cut and paste, or something else?
> 
>       Try using 1.5.15; it has a patch in for the clipboard, though one
> lad may have found a way to cause a problem still.
> 
>       http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow1515.zip
> 
>             Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:22pm
Subject: RE: Fatal error on "Done"

Installed 1.5.15. So far so good......Hopefully the naughty 'whatever'
will behave from now on.
 
Sorry to make you take time from the desktop development ;-)
 
Cheers
 
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...] 
Sent: 12 September 2001 14:58
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Fatal error on "Done"



      Strange. That does sound like a naughty hack :/

            jeff



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: ricardo131@y...
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:13am
Subject: Off Topic : Yesterday

Just a short note to say that here in Canada we are deeply sadened by 
yesterday's horific events. Our prayers are with you.

From: dave_p_1@y...
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:36pm
Subject: VFS Support

Jeff,

I want to second Joe Chott's request (message 2020) for VFS 
read/write support.  I use ShadowPlan for my ToDo lists and another 
outliner for my information storage.  I plan to consolidate both in 
ShadowPlan as soon as your desktop app is workable.  My information 
storage takes up over 1mb of RAM (magazine articles, internet pages, 
and the like) and I would like to get it onto my MMC.

Pulling the whole database into RAM and overwriting on the card after 
you are finished would be acceptable.  Pulling segments of the 
database into RAM and overwriting them on the fly would be better.

Thanks,

Dave

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:34pm
Subject: Re: VFS Support

I may look into VFS in awhile; right now, its used by onyl a small
population (relatively) and I'd rather work on some more pressing matters
everyone can benefit from. Also, when getting into OS4, I may look into
hires first.. hard to say. As you say, we cna do some feature votes once
the desktop is out and useful :)

		jeff

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 dave_p_1@y... wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
> I want to second Joe Chott's request (message 2020) for VFS 
> read/write support.  I use ShadowPlan for my ToDo lists and another 
> outliner for my information storage.  I plan to consolidate both in 
> ShadowPlan as soon as your desktop app is workable.  My information 
> storage takes up over 1mb of RAM (magazine articles, internet pages, 
> and the like) and I would like to get it onto my MMC.
> 
> Pulling the whole database into RAM and overwriting on the card after 
> you are finished would be acceptable.  Pulling segments of the 
> database into RAM and overwriting them on the fly would be better.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ajgray@y...
Date: Thu Sep 13, 2001 10:22pm
Subject: Note shortcut from details screen?

Hi, Jeff --

I'd like to be able to use the Command-A shortcut to access a note 
from an item detail screen, as I can from the List screen.  As it is, 
I have to click the Note button, which means I have to pick up the 
stylus while I'm typing on the keyboard, which I wouldn't have to do 
with a Command-A.

This change would be a great timesaver for data entry.

Thanks!

-- Andy

From: nevai@m...
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:13am
Subject: Re: Shadow 1.5.14 Released!

> 	What specific keyboard options would you like? For pulldown menus,
> thats really something I've left to the OS. WordSmith sneakily (and way
> cool ;) worked around the OS.. its some work, so I'll do that "later".
> There is laptophack which lets you do the same thing, I think.

LapTopHack not just allows it, but, in fact, it does it 100%$ seamlessly.
Best regards, Paul

P.S. Type "?" while in a pulled-down menu.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:15am
Subject: Re: Note shortcut from details screen?

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 ajgray@y... wrote:

> I'd like to be able to use the Command-A shortcut to access a note 
> from an item detail screen, as I can from the List screen.  As it is, 
> I have to click the Note button, which means I have to pick up the 
> stylus while I'm typing on the keyboard, which I wouldn't have to do 
> with a Command-A.
> 
> This change would be a great timesaver for data entry.

	I had this request before. I'm sure I tried it, but had some
problem. Hmm. I don't recall what the issue was. Hmm.

	I'll think about it,

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: opitz@s...
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:40pm
Subject: Re: Note shortcut from details screen?

Is the issue that it's a button and not a menu item? I remember CESD 
(DateBk4) writing that only Palm OS-based menu choices (i.e. the ones 
you get tapping the Menu silkscreen) can be assigned to a command 
stroke. There is no Edit Note command in Shadow's Details screen.

Bob


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 ajgray@y... wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to be able to use the Command-A shortcut to access a note 
> > from an item detail screen, as I can from the List screen.  As it 
is, 
> > I have to click the Note button, which means I have to pick up the 
> > stylus while I'm typing on the keyboard, which I wouldn't have to 
do 
> > with a Command-A.
> > 
> > This change would be a great timesaver for data entry.
> 
> 	I had this request before. I'm sure I tried it, but had some
> problem. Hmm. I don't recall what the issue was. Hmm.
> 
> 	I'll think about it,
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Sep 16, 2001 7:21pm
Subject: Re: Re: Note shortcut from details screen?

On Sun, 16 Sep 2001 opitz@s... wrote:

> Is the issue that it's a button and not a menu item? I remember CESD 
> (DateBk4) writing that only Palm OS-based menu choices (i.e. the ones 
> you get tapping the Menu silkscreen) can be assigned to a command 
> stroke. There is no Edit Note command in Shadow's Details screen.

	That was part of it; I remember thinking about adding a /A except
it conflicted with something. I'll have to toy with it again,

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jason_crowder@h...
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2001 3:54pm
Subject: Re: Culmination..

Jeff,

Has this issue ever been settled?  I would very much like to have an 
option that defaults the start date to today's date.  

Jason


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@t...> wrote:
> Quoting smasters@a... (smasters@a...):
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > 	New Child:
> > > 		"Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> > > 		Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> > > 		Parents Target date goes to target date
> > > 
> > > 	Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> > > 
> > I do not like this idea for Target date. The target dates for my 
> > children are never the same as the parent, that's why they're 
> > children. They are smaller pieces of the parent and are to be 
done 
> > before the parents target date. I worry that if you default this 
> > field I will miss entering the correct target date and seriously 
> > screw up my ToDo list.
> > 
> > Jeff, as a software design PM, I would say that many of  the 
current 
> > discussions are a matter of "creeping elegance". Please be 
careful 
> > how you proceed with these individual requests.
> 
> I can appreciate the concern here, and this discussion demonstrates
> how something very simple in initial concept can have some
> far reaching impact. I tend to use 'target date' differently
> than most people here, in that if I haven't started a task, it's
> the target start date...if I haven't finished it, but I have started
> it's the target completion date.
> 
> As to Jeff's thought about age...that brings up another whole
> nest of interesting possibilities...I'm not sure what the
> right answer is, but I agree there is a danger in having a
> single field inherit too many possible values. Personally
> I still like the idea of allowing start to default to
> today, if that option is selected for the file.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2001 4:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Culmination..

On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 jason_crowder@h... wrote:

> Has this issue ever been settled?  I would very much like to have an 
> option that defaults the start date to today's date.  

	Nope; it get left at the roadside due to focusing on the desktop
app (that everyone wants :). I've just had so little time, I've had to
focus to very narrow goals :/

	Once the desktop is out and useful, I'll be bringing up a pile of
old issues and maybe having a vote to see how to prioritize them..

		jeff

> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@t...> wrote:
> > Quoting smasters@a... (smasters@a...):
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > > 	New Child:
> > > > 		"Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> > > > 		Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> > > > 		Parents Target date goes to target date
> > > > 
> > > > 	Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> > > > 
> > > I do not like this idea for Target date. The target dates for my 
> > > children are never the same as the parent, that's why they're 
> > > children. They are smaller pieces of the parent and are to be 
> done 
> > > before the parents target date. I worry that if you default this 
> > > field I will miss entering the correct target date and seriously 
> > > screw up my ToDo list.
> > > 
> > > Jeff, as a software design PM, I would say that many of  the 
> current 
> > > discussions are a matter of "creeping elegance". Please be 
> careful 
> > > how you proceed with these individual requests.
> > 
> > I can appreciate the concern here, and this discussion demonstrates
> > how something very simple in initial concept can have some
> > far reaching impact. I tend to use 'target date' differently
> > than most people here, in that if I haven't started a task, it's
> > the target start date...if I haven't finished it, but I have started
> > it's the target completion date.
> > 
> > As to Jeff's thought about age...that brings up another whole
> > nest of interesting possibilities...I'm not sure what the
> > right answer is, but I agree there is a danger in having a
> > single field inherit too many possible values. Personally
> > I still like the idea of allowing start to default to
> > today, if that option is selected for the file.
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2001 5:33pm
Subject: Help for WTC tragedy

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/09/17/rec.palm.attack/index.html

	This is a good idea.

	If anyone has a Shadow database with contact info or anything
useful for those effected by or helping out with the WTC tragedy, let me
know and I'll distribute it as best I can.

		jeff

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2001 7:55pm
Subject: Suppress Progress on Children

I'm thinking the more I use this, that the inverse of this
command would be more useful. I'd like to be able to configure
a list so that task lists never show up for the any tasks WITH
children, as opposed to any that are children.

Thoughts? Am I missing something here?

Thanks

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Sep 18, 2001 8:03pm
Subject: Re: Suppress Progress on Children

On Tue, 18 Sep 2001, Learned wrote:

> I'm thinking the more I use this, that the inverse of this
> command would be more useful. I'd like to be able to configure
> a list so that task lists never show up