From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 0:58pm
Subject: Re: Exporting Function

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 buch2001@u... wrote:

> Really like this program; like so many others, I registered it about 
> 15 minutes after I downloaded it. You and CESD have an excellent way 
> of providing support.

	Glad you dig it :)

> I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but I would really 
> like to see a more robust export of the data, i.e. Progect. Sometimes 
> it is easier to see  the complete tree on paper, and more detail 

	I know this is lacking; I've been working on making Shadow more
robust and on the conduit for the last couple of weeks. I have a backup
conduit now which dumps all your lists into XML files, and I and various
others are working on translators from XML into other things (like MSWord
and MSPRoject). That ought to help a lot. Eventually, two-way sync, too.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kencn@a...
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 8:10pm
Subject: Import Suggestion

Jeff, 

Here's an idea for import once you get the rest of the linking (to 
address, memo, etc.) fleshed out.  How about an import that works
like the Palm Find function.  In other words, a text search that
would search the entire Palm, or the applications that Shadow
supports linking with, and for each record that's found, an outline 
entry is created with a link to the original record (like todo's and 
appts today)  Maybe you could group the results them under headings 
for each application.  

I use abbreviations to identify a customer or project and then try to 
use them in appts, todo's memos and contact notes.  This would give
me a way to capture a linked list of all the records for a particular 
project or customer fairly quickly.  I'm not sure how useful other 
folks would find this or how much work it would be to implement but
it would be cool (I know,maybe not the best feature justification.) 
I've always wished the Palm find function were persistent, i.e. you 
could jump back and forth between the results list and the individual 
records.  This would go that one better, giving you results lists
that you could edit, reorganize and save.  

Just a thought.
Ken

From: ccahua@m...
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 8:59pm
Subject: instructions for taking an item to the top?, ideas

Hi,

I just downloaded 1.4 was was wondering how to take an item and moving 
it up to the top of the list.
I read the instructions for drag an drop and cut and paste, but I 
can't seem to move it unless the top item is moved below its 
underlings.

I'm registered with Arranger and your Shadows support blow it out of 
the water, but in Arranger this is a relatively simple task of 
dragging and dropping.
I would think that would be a good feature for Shadow to have.
Am I missing something?

Linking: 
I've used Rick Bram's Linker Hack to good measure by adding link tags 
to Shadow notes. The backlinking works too.

thanks again for the great support/listening. I'll be registering soon 
just for that!

From: cfralick@i...
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 3:41am
Subject: Re: Feature Request?

As exciting as it sounds, I use a lot of fairly long lists and check 
them off on a daily, weekly basis. It would be nice to be able to 
quickly remove the check marks and go to my next list. Although not 
an absolute need, just a thought. As far as a command goes, what ever 
is left. /Z?

Thanks for a truly useful piece of software. 

Clark Fralick
Teacher

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 1:22pm
Subject: Re: instructions for taking an item to the top?, ideas

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 ccahua@m... wrote:

> I just downloaded 1.4 was was wondering how to take an item and moving 
> it up to the top of the list.
> I read the instructions for drag an drop and cut and paste, but I 
> can't seem to move it unless the top item is moved below its 
> underlings.

	The way I usually do it is to drag to second item, and then use
the graifitti push-up stroke (up/down) to push it up, or just drag the top
item to the the now second item, to swap them. I know its a two step
process to move to top.. I'll fix that up sometime, but I'm working on the
conduit and other things now (global find is fully functional in
development version :)

> I would think that would be a good feature for Shadow to have.
> Am I missing something?

	No, its my bad. I'm just trying topolish off the big important
todos of mine before going back and polishing off the drag and
drop. Sorry.

> I've used Rick Bram's Linker Hack to good measure by adding link tags 
> to Shadow notes. The backlinking works too.

	Cool. I'll have to take a look.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 1:24pm
Subject: Re: Import Suggestion

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> like the Palm Find function.  In other words, a text search that
> would search the entire Palm, or the applications that Shadow
> supports linking with, and for each record that's found, an outline 
> entry is created with a link to the original record (like todo's and 
> appts today)  Maybe you could group the results them under headings 
> for each application.  

	Bizarre and very neat idea :) I could see a lot of people never
using this, but those who use it woudl be super powerful :) I put it onto
my list.. very neat idea.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 15, 2001 2:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: Feature Request?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:

> As exciting as it sounds, I use a lot of fairly long lists and check 
> them off on a daily, weekly basis. It would be nice to be able to 
> quickly remove the check marks and go to my next list. Although not 
> an absolute need, just a thought. As far as a command goes, what ever 
> is left. /Z?

	Anyone else have a suggestion for shortcut to uncheck all?

	I could perhaps sneak it under the [C] clipboard popmenu on the
topright. Just a "uncheck all" operation there, so as to avoid a shortcut.

> Thanks for a truly useful piece of software. 

	Thanks for enjoying it :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:48am
Subject: Re: Import Suggestion

Excellent idea; lots of potential uses.

Put it on the list for after the conduit, desktop app, converters, 
etc., etc.

> > like the Palm Find function.  In other words, a text search that 
would search the entire Palm, or the applications that Shadow 
supports linking with, and for each record that's found, an outline 
entry is created with a link to the original record (like todo's and 
appts today)  Maybe you could group the results them under headings 
for each application.  

***********************************************************
BTW, just scored a copy of TRON.  My 9 year old son was jazzed.  

"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean, sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he is?"

From: Michael Frazure  <frazure@m...>
Date: Fri Feb 16, 2001 3:52am
Subject: New User - Samples Anywhere?

Is there a forum that discusses sample applications for Shadow?

From: Doug Roberts  <doug@b...>
Date: Fri Feb 16, 2001 4:41am
Subject: RE: New User - Samples Anywhere?

I doubt there is a separate forum -- but I think this is a great idea for
this one (if others think this appropriate) -- to share how we use Shadow -
or suggestions for applications. What do you think?

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Frazure [mailto:frazure@m...]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 8:52 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] New User - Samples Anywhere?


Is there a forum that discusses sample applications for Shadow?



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shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 16, 2001 1:13pm
Subject: Re: New User - Samples Anywhere?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Michael Frazure wrote:

> Is there a forum that discusses sample applications for Shadow?  

	This and the shadow-discuss mailing list would be the places; what
do you need to know? Shadow in general is an outliner, which is to say it
can do hierarchical list taking. You can use it in place of the Palm ToDo
application, use it to supplement your datebook application by grouping
items by priority, project, goal, whatever. People use it for shopping
lists all the way through full project management and design. It is quite
powerful in terms of organizing data and allowing you to juggle items
around. Much more is to come, too..

	Download it and play with it at your leisure.

	I just woke up, so ifI write much I'll put my foot in my mouth :)

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 16, 2001 1:19pm
Subject: RE: New User - Samples Anywhere?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Doug Roberts wrote:

> I doubt there is a separate forum -- but I think this is a great idea for
> this one (if others think this appropriate) -- to share how we use Shadow -
> or suggestions for applications. What do you think?

	Please do :) I've brought it up on occasion, and it'd be nice to
know. How do people integrate Shadow with their other palm applications
and lifestyle? 

	My needs are simpler than most -- I live in Shadow and ActionNames
(it coudl be Datebook4, too, but AN sort of hits me right :). I schedule
projects and tasks for my team via Shadow, with links to the datebook so
that I can set meeting times and alarms. Once I add tagging so that I can
allocate peopel to a task easier, I'll be really happy (thankfully coming
soon).

	I keep my CD and movie listings in Shadow, as well as pretty much
any piece of info on the palm (except address/phonebook stuff, for which I
use thinkDB)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Victor Krongold  <victor.krongold@c...>
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 3:29pm
Subject: Keeping categories across apps

Jeff,

I would like to keep the categories whenever I link items to the todo 
app. I open a list under a certain category and all the items I add 
and link to ToDo should be added to the same category, if exists, or 
default to Unfiled if it does not exist.

Am I missing something or this feature is not implemented? 

Victor

From: Kevin  <kfosler@h...>
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 5:55pm
Subject: Re: Keeping categories across apps

I totally agree with Victor's suggestion!

Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Victor Krongold 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 9:29 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Keeping categories across apps


  Jeff,

  I would like to keep the categories whenever I link items to the todo 
  app. I open a list under a certain category and all the items I add 
  and link to ToDo should be added to the same category, if exists, or 
  default to Unfiled if it does not exist.

  Am I missing something or this feature is not implemented? 

  Victor


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From: RobRose03@a...
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:57pm
Subject: Data File Causes Fatal Exception

Jeff - 

Just imported a file into Shadow (1.4) that causes now causes fatal 
exception every time I try to get into Shadow.  File was an export 
from ThinkDB 2.0, with several fields tab-delimited - so that it came 
into Shadow as a series of top level items with looong first lines.  
Any ideas?  Any way to get Shadow to fire up without it trying to 
open the last-used filed?

Thanks

Robert Rose

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Keeping categories across apps

On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Victor Krongold wrote:

> I would like to keep the categories whenever I link items to the todo 
> app. I open a list under a certain category and all the items I add 
> and link to ToDo should be added to the same category, if exists, or 
> default to Unfiled if it does not exist.
> 
> Am I missing something or this feature is not implemented? 

	I'll implement once the conduit stuff settles a bit; your scheme
above is too restrictive, but I'll be sure to allow that sort of thing to
occur; I'm thinking of allowing a default list todo category, with
overrides by sublevel or somesuch... 

	I'm not sure on the timeline.. but its nearer to the top of my
list than the bottom :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:16pm
Subject: Re: Data File Causes Fatal Exception

On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 RobRose03@a... wrote:

> Just imported a file into Shadow (1.4) that causes now causes fatal 
> exception every time I try to get into Shadow.  File was an export 
> from ThinkDB 2.0, with several fields tab-delimited - so that it came 
> into Shadow as a series of top level items with looong first lines.  
> Any ideas?  Any way to get Shadow to fire up without it trying to 
> open the last-used filed?

	An interesting find -- I shall have to make the importer not let
you kill it. Thanks for reporting it, but sorry for the problem.

	Shadows "last loaded list" is stored in its prefs. To blow away
the prefs easily, I think you can do a palm-side deletion of the Shadow
program and it ought to automatically remove the prefs (including your
registration, so you'll have to re-enter it). If your OS version isn't one
that removes prefs, then you coudl try deleting the bad file, and Shadow
won't be able to load it.

	Let me know if you still have problems and I'll work somethign out
for you.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: RobRose03@a...
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:50pm
Subject: Re: Data File Causes Fatal Exception

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	An interesting find -- I shall have to make the importer not 
let
> you kill it. Thanks for reporting it, but sorry for the problem.
> 
> 	Shadows "last loaded list" is stored in its prefs. To blow 
away
> the prefs easily, I think you can do a palm-side deletion of the 
Shadow
> program and it ought to automatically remove the prefs (including 
your
> registration, so you'll have to re-enter it). If your OS version 
isn't one
> that removes prefs, then you coudl try deleting the bad file, and 
Shadow
> won't be able to load it.
> 
> 	Let me know if you still have problems and I'll work 
somethign out
> for you.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

Jeff - 

Thanks for the help.  I just deleted the file.  Just to make sure I 
made myself clear, it seemed to go through the import process fine.  
It when I started re-arranging things in the file (and bouncing 
around between it and ThinkDB - with X-Master and McPhling) that I 
got the first fatal exception.  Hard to say whether it was something 
that resulted from the import or something I managed to introduce 
during my editing and bouncing around.  I'm trying it again, will let 
you know how I fare.

Robert Rose

From: frazure@m...
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 7:53pm
Subject: Re: New User - Samples Anywhere?

Thanks Jeff,

I have begun using it for checklists (e.g., preparing for a trip) and 
keeping track of a program roll out across multiple offices.  How do 
you set up a project?  I link to the todo list which loads into MS 
Outlook in my office as well as datebook which does the same.

I haven't figured out what happens when I link an entry to another 
Shadow file.  I can't seem to find the entry in the other Shadow file.

Any other tricks for projects?

Thanks,

Mike

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, Doug Roberts wrote:
> 
> > I doubt there is a separate forum -- but I think this is a great 
idea for
> > this one (if others think this appropriate) -- to share how we 
use Shadow -
> > or suggestions for applications. What do you think?
> 
> 	Please do :) I've brought it up on occasion, and it'd be nice 
to
> know. How do people integrate Shadow with their other palm 
applications
> and lifestyle? 
> 
> 	My needs are simpler than most -- I live in Shadow and 
ActionNames
> (it coudl be Datebook4, too, but AN sort of hits me right :). I 
schedule
> projects and tasks for my team via Shadow, with links to the 
datebook so
> that I can set meeting times and alarms. Once I add tagging so that 
I can
> allocate peopel to a task easier, I'll be really happy (thankfully 
coming
> soon).
> 
> 	I keep my CD and movie listings in Shadow, as well as pretty 
much
> any piece of info on the palm (except address/phonebook stuff, for 
which I
> use thinkDB)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Feb 17, 2001 8:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: New User - Samples Anywhere?

On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 frazure@m... wrote:

> I have begun using it for checklists (e.g., preparing for a trip) and 
> keeping track of a program roll out across multiple offices.  How do 
> you set up a project?  I link to the todo list which loads into MS 
> Outlook in my office as well as datebook which does the same.
> 
> I haven't figured out what happens when I link an entry to another 
> Shadow file.  I can't seem to find the entry in the other Shadow file.

	Quite; linking to another Shadow file is different; its just an
easy way to jump to the other file, though it doesnt' link to an item in
that file (yet, anyway, though that may be coming).

	I have a Project category; inside are a bunch of Shadow files for
large scale projects.. a project coudl be "two company integration" -- a
very large scope; it includes top level items of majorheadings or
projects, and those have sublevels of main breakdowns. I may link to other
files to include checklists or designs or the like, and keep the file
sizes down and keep file types useful. It'll all change when I add mixed
types ot Shadow lists..

	I use the Shadow links as hyperlinks of sorts; I have "Back to
prject" and "jump to project designs, stage one" and stuff like that as
links, to make navigating easy :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Sun Feb 18, 2001 5:37am
Subject: Re: New User - Samples Anywhere?

> I haven't figured out what happens when I link an entry to another 
> Shadow file.  I can't seem to find the entry in the other Shadow 
file.
> 
> Any other tricks for projects?


I use one main list.  It has all my to do items.
I have several other lists.  Remodel, for anything relating to my 
current remodel, Pawprints, for the newsletter that I edit at my 
son's school, etc...

My main list has links to each of the other lists (I keep them down 
at the bottom of the list).  I can scan thru all my current to dos at 
the top of my main list without filling the list with the myriad of 
items involved in the other tasks.  But I can jump to any of those 
lists quickly.  That's all the link to shadow file does.  Instead of 
saying "done", and opening a new file, you follow the link to the new 
file.

The first item in each of the sublists is "back to Main".  When Jeff 
finishes the conduit, and begins working on the Palm app again, this 
line will no longer be necessary.

I also have a few permanent tasks in the main list, like "Phone 
calls" and "Billing", things that I do all the time.  I create child 
tasks under these, and delete them when done.  The appearance of the 
collapsed arrow lets me know that I still have calls to make, or that 
I have not billed a client for work done...

tommyb

From: demetrios@c...
Date: Sun Feb 18, 2001 9:39pm
Subject: Re: New User - Samples Anywhere?

Personally, I like to use Shadow for the more complicated stuff. 
The multi-tiered sort of list. If I need just a checklist, like 
groceries or my videos or CD's or some such, I like HandyShopper 2 
{http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?
sid=92669920000604004106&prodID=5314}. It has a lot of nice touches, 
some of which would be nice in Shadow, but it is not hierarchically 
set up, which is one the main points of Shadow.

   I like the hyperlinking to other Shadow files, going back & forth 
is great. I like to use the linking so that I can meld different 
lists together to make an even bigger list, if you see what I mean. I 
think it'll be even better when Jeff gets it down to linking directly 
to individual items within the same list or others.

Demetrios, 
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?

From: david.keltie@z...
Date: Mon Feb 19, 2001 2:22pm
Subject: Links to address book/todo list

I'm trying out Shadow Plan. Whenever I change the date of an item 
added in shadow plan in Action Names it creates a broken link in 
shadow. Is that the way its s'pposed to be?

If so, is there any likelihood that the link could be maintained in a 
future release?

Thanks.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 19, 2001 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Links to address book/todo list

On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 david.keltie@z... wrote:

> I'm trying out Shadow Plan. Whenever I change the date of an item 
> added in shadow plan in Action Names it creates a broken link in 
> shadow. Is that the way its s'pposed to be?

	Depends on Action Names; changing a date in a record should just
change the date. If the application creates a new record and deletes the
old one, then Shadow would report a "broken link", since it can nolonger
find the record it created. If AN is being naughty, theres not much we can
do about it :/ 

	I didn't think AN did that, but I'd have to check.

	(ie: You link an item from Shadow to the datebook; pull up action
names and its there. Change the date in it. Go back to Shadow, and
broken? Odd. IF so, its AN's fault :/)

> If so, is there any likelihood that the link could be maintained in a 
> future release?

	Not unless I did a lot of magic; If AN is doing this, theres not a
lot I can do :(

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kencn@a...
Date: Mon Feb 19, 2001 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Links to address book/todo list

Jeff,

FYI, I don't see this behavior.  I can create an item in Shadow, 
create links to an appt and a todo in Action Names, change the dates 
of the items multiple times in Action Names and the link remains 
intact.  I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm using the 4.55 
beta of AN.  This release adds support for global find so I guess it's 
conceivable things could have changed in the database area.  

Ken



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 david.keltie@z... wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying out Shadow Plan. Whenever I change the date of an item 
> > added in shadow plan in Action Names it creates a broken link in 
> > shadow. Is that the way its s'pposed to be?
> 
> 	Depends on Action Names; changing a date in a record should 
just
> change the date. If the application creates a new record and deletes 
the
> old one, then Shadow would report a "broken link", since it can 
nolonger
> find the record it created. If AN is being naughty, theres not much 
we can
> do about it :/ 
> 
> 	I didn't think AN did that, but I'd have to check.
> 
> 	(ie: You link an item from Shadow to the datebook; pull up 
action
> names and its there. Change the date in it. Go back to Shadow, and
> broken? Odd. IF so, its AN's fault :/)
> 
> > If so, is there any likelihood that the link could be maintained 
in a 
> > future release?
> 
> 	Not unless I did a lot of magic; If AN is doing this, theres 
not a
> lot I can do :(
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: frazure@m...
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 2:20am
Subject: What a Delight!

Thank you very much for sharing your uses for Shadow.  I have been 
with it a week now, and like the way I can plan within Shadow link to 
the datebook those items requiring my attention; going to the 
datebook the night before and setting the time or resetting the date 
for addressing the issue;  and then syncing up with MS Outlook to 
ensure my company calendar locks up the time for group availability, 
etc.

The link to the ToDo list seems to be a good place for my follow up 
reminders for tasks for which my people are responsible.

Your ideas on linking to other files works well, too.

Now, if I can break my habit of trying something for two weeks and 
losing patience with it.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Is there a good program for speeding up text entry?  I use grafitti 
but it is like signing every letter of a word instead of using 
shortcuts as in sign language.

Thanks,

Mike

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 2:44am
Subject: Re: What a Delight!

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 frazure@m... wrote:

> Is there a good program for speeding up text entry?  I use grafitti 
> but it is like signing every letter of a word instead of using 
> shortcuts as in sign language.

	I've never used it, but you can set up grafitti shortcuts.. so you
could do a couple swipes and have a whole word pop out. Check your palm
manual.. I don't know how to do it offhand :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: David Keltie  <david.keltie@z...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 10:05am
Subject: RE: Text Entry

Getting off topic here....but someone asked.

Try Word Complete (a programme not a hack - but works across most progs). It
pops up suggestions after a user-configurable number of letters is entered.
Has its own list of words to which you can add your own on the fly! Produced
by CIC (sorry no URL but do a search at palmgear.com).

Essential app in my view!

Dave

PS It works in Shadow perfectly. Think I'm going to register now I've sorted
out my AN link....My reservation is the low cost!

Jeff: Can you really make enough money on this to continue development? I've
registered several third-party apps only to find development has halted
before the app is really ready for prime-time (though with a proper conduit
yours looks about there....). Course you could go the way of eg datebook and
keep adding user-suggested features until it stops doing things sweetly and
simply.

Having said that ;-) is a link to the expense app (or Quick or Tiny
Sheet)possible. Would be cool to link costs to tasks and vice versa....

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 0:50pm
Subject: Re: What a Delight!

> Is there a good program for speeding up text entry?  I use
> grafitti but it is like signing every letter of a word instead
> of using shortcuts as in sign language.

Try these:

TextPlus
http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=4037

MagicText
http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=1493

Pop!
http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=1150

Roy.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 1:11pm
Subject: RE: Text Entry

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, David Keltie wrote:

> Jeff: Can you really make enough money on this to continue development? I've
> registered several third-party apps only to find development has halted

	Its not my full time job (though I produce enough versions to make
you wonder ;) so it doesn't need to pay my mortgage (but it woudl be nice
if it coudl do that!)  I'd rather increase its revenue through good solid
sales to happy people, then through making it expensive.

> before the app is really ready for prime-time (though with a proper conduit
> yours looks about there....). Course you could go the way of eg datebook and
> keep adding user-suggested features until it stops doing things sweetly and

	That is very hard; Its really difficult to nail down what should
or should not be done. You cannot imagine how many requests I get.. my
list goes on and on and on..

> Having said that ;-) is a link to the expense app (or Quick or Tiny
> Sheet)possible. Would be cool to link costs to tasks and vice versa....

	Possible but how effective depends on the other side. Link to load
most major databases is possible. I've not worried about expense yet, but
am aiming to link to address and memos soon, and DOCs and such. 1.4.9 is
poised to link to anythign under the sun.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Victor Krongold  <victor.krongold@c...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 1:58pm
Subject: Display Preferences

Jeff,

What about the wordwrap feature? A nice feature to introduce would be 
to allow the word wrapping setting inside each particular list 
instead of setting it as a genric display preference, and better if 
you can do it through a graffiti command.

Saludos

Victor

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 2:31pm
Subject: Re: Display Preferences

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Victor Krongold wrote:

> What about the wordwrap feature? A nice feature to introduce would be 
> to allow the word wrapping setting inside each particular list 
> instead of setting it as a genric display preference, and better if 
> you can do it through a graffiti command.

	Toggle on and off WW on a whole list? I dont' think that'd be too
useful as a grafitti. I am eventually planning to add an ability to
collapse/expand WW on a title by title bnasis by tapping on the elipses
<...> following collapsed titles. I'll move the option to a list specific
one, too, when I get a chance. (so far concentrating on the conduits; and
being distracted by a very busy work week :(

	("Damn real work") ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jim Robbins  <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 2:40pm
Subject: Linking

I've noticed an increasing number of requests to link to various programs. I
also remember asking for back-linking myself. I don't know if there is a
perfect way to support record-level linking in all apps; therefore, it will
likely be necessary to communicate with a program (or its database) to
create a link to it. Rather than having every developer write the code to
link to certain requested databases, a standard should be created to allow
linking between any program.

Jeff, do you know if there is any effort among Palm developers to support a
linking standard? Ideally, Palm would create such a standard an include it
in a future OS update. Alternately, and probably more likely, a de facto
standard will emerge from the developer community. This would be similar to
the way system hacks were standardized by Edward Keyes releasing HackMaster
back in 1996.

I believe that LinkMaster (http://linkmaster.sourceforge.net/) and Linker
(http://www.digitalglyph.com/) have published an (seperate) APIs to support
linking between applications. I have a preference for LinkMaster because it
is free and the source is available under the GNU license. However, I
certainly don't mind paying DigitalGlyph for their work if they don't charge
developers to add linking to their applications and their linking API and
support is more robust than LinkMaster.

If you don't know of such a standard developing, could you contact the
developers of other popular shareware (like DateBk, Action Names,
AddressBook+, etc.) and try to promote a common standard? If several of the
popular applications support a common linking standard then that will create
a large incentive for other developers to support the same standard.

Here are my thoughts on the requirements a linking standard would need:

1)  Create link by selecting app to link to and launching it. It will return
info about the to the calling app. This is necessary because it is very
difficult to understand the database format of every possible linkable
program.

2)  Activate a stored link by launching appropriate app and passing it link
information. That app then goes to the appropriate record.

3)  Applications will need to be able to link to the basic Palm apps. Many
people haven't added third-party programs to replace the built-in
applications and would need to link to the Date Book, Address Book, or To-Do
List.

In addition to these basic requirements, it would be nice if the standard
supported some way of automatically creating back-links. For instance, in
the example above, the calling app would also pass information about its
record to the app to be linked to. The linked app, if it supported
back-linking, would create a link back to the calling app using that
information. This way the user doesn't have to create the back-link
manually. The option of creating an automatic backlink could be stored in
the app preferences.

This form of linking should not require an external linking program to be
available. The linking structures and (possible) helper functions could be
available in a library or include file that the individual developers build
into their apps. Alternately, if several helper functions are created, these
could be built into a library that is installed on the Palm as a seperate
app (much like the MathLib library used by some programs). If a global
library is installed then the preference for back-linking could be stored in
this library and queried by all link compatible programs.

I haven't looked at the API for Linker, but the API documentation for
LinkMaster seems to fulfill the two basic requirements above. I didn't see
any mention of automatic back-linking, but I haven't examined the structures
to see if back-linking is supported there. I did notice that being a link
container (an app that creates links) required an app to create a link
structure for the record where the link is inserted. This means that
back-linking might be supported in the future without much change to the
app.

Just some thoughts,

Jim

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: Re: Linking

On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Jim Robbins wrote:

> Jeff, do you know if there is any effort among Palm developers to support a
> linking standard? Ideally, Palm would create such a standard an include it
> in a future OS update. Alternately, and probably more likely, a de facto
> standard will emerge from the developer community. This would be similar to
> the way system hacks were standardized by Edward Keyes releasing HackMaster
> back in 1996.

	LinkMaster is being increasingly more supported. 1.4.0 could not
do it, but 1.4.9 are friends are closer to supporting it. I've just not
had time to worry about it yet..

> 1)  Create link by selecting app to link to and launching it. It will return
> info about the to the calling app. This is necessary because it is very
> difficult to understand the database format of every possible linkable
> program.

	Current linking proposals are just launch-and-goto, a la
find. Palm OS just isn't (yet?) well suited to apps reading each others
databases :/

> record to the app to be linked to. The linked app, if it supported
> back-linking, would create a link back to the calling app using that
> information. This way the user doesn't have to create the back-link
> manually. The option of creating an automatic backlink could be stored in
> the app preferences.

	The main difficulty here is the UI updates.. every app has to do
some actual work to support it. We'll see how well it catches on. I'm all
for it, of course :)

> I haven't looked at the API for Linker, but the API documentation for
> LinkMaster seems to fulfill the two basic requirements above. I didn't see
> any mention of automatic back-linking, but I haven't examined the structures
> to see if back-linking is supported there. I did notice that being a link

	Automatic back linking isn't likely, as you cannot assume a two
way relationship is feasible or useful. But certainly an optional backlink
is desirable, and I think LM can support that (or if not, its easily
added).

	I'm in a rush, so can't detail a response.. but I think you get my
drift. I'm all for LinkMaster.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Peter R. Grierson  <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 21, 2001 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Import Suggestion

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:10:53 -0000
   From: kencn@a...
Subject: Import Suggestion

When working on a file I will leave symbols [/\, ??, etc] to indicate
additional work to be done.  I can search for the symbols but twith no way
to put them in a list, it is hard to know which are the high and low
priorities.

If this gets added I would use it often.  

Peter R.
"All Accounting is creative."

====

<snip> How about an import that works like the Palm Find function.  <snip>
Maybe you could group the results them under headings for each application.  

I use abbreviations to identify a customer or project and then try to 
use them in appts, todo's memos and contact notes.  This would give
me a way to capture a linked list of all the records for a particular 
project or customer fairly quickly.  I'm not sure how useful other 
folks would find this or how much work it would be to implement but
it would be cool (I know,maybe not the best feature justification.) 
I've always wished the Palm find function were persistent, i.e. you 
could jump back and forth between the results list and the individual 
records.  This would go that one better, giving you results lists
that you could edit, reorganize and save.  

Just a thought.
Ken

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Feb 22, 2001 2:05pm
Subject: Re: Text Entry

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "David Keltie" <david.keltie@z...> wrote:
> Getting off topic here....but someone asked.
> 
> Try Word Complete (a programme not a hack - but works across most 
progs). It
> pops up suggestions after a user-configurable number of letters is 
entered.
> Has its own list of words to which you can add your own on the fly! 
Produced
> by CIC (sorry no URL but do a search at palmgear.com).
> 
> Essential app in my view!
> 
> Dave

No one has mentioned the obvious.  FitalyStamp.  I can't recommend it 
enough.  I get like 55 wpm in it, just using my stylus.  Give it a 
try, it is free to try out.

-Joe Chott

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Feb 22, 2001 2:07pm
Subject: Re: Text Entry

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "David Keltie" <david.keltie@z...> wrote:
> Getting off topic here....but someone asked.
> 
> Try Word Complete (a programme not a hack - but works across most 
progs). It
> pops up suggestions after a user-configurable number of letters is 
entered.
> Has its own list of words to which you can add your own on the fly! 
Produced
> by CIC (sorry no URL but do a search at palmgear.com).
> 
> Essential app in my view!
> 
> Dave

No one has mentioned the obvious.  FitalyStamp.  I can't recommend it 
enough.  I get like 55 wpm in it, just using my stylus.  Give it a 
try, it is free to try out.

-Joe Chott

From: cfralick@i...
Date: Tue Feb 27, 2001 4:16am
Subject: Pen Computing Review

There is a glowing review of Shadow in the March Issue of Pen 
Computing

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 27, 2001 0:49pm
Subject: Re: Pen Computing Review

On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:

> There is a glowing review of Shadow in the March Issue of Pen 
> Computing

	On the stands now? woowoo! :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Wed Feb 28, 2001 5:01pm
Subject: Re: Linking

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	Automatic back linking isn't likely, as you cannot assume a 
two
> way relationship is feasible or useful. 

Jeff, what do you think about a more dynamic approach for links? 
Consider 

- links which have names, you could easily determine why the link was 
set at all.

- links which explicitly allow two-way relationships by providing two 
names (like "Is-Father-Of" and "Is-Son-Of", depending on the item you 
selected to see the link)

- links which have entity restrictions (like 1:1, 1:n, ...) to 
constraint input to a predefined structure.

- link types which are selectable from a predefined popup

- links that have a limited time of existence

....

Having this extended link approach over different apps would sure be 
a killer, but even within Shadow, it would dramatically increase real-
world data management. The world is a web of things, not a tree :|

(you won't run out of work, will you? :)

-Martin

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 28, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Linking

Nasty :)

	I'm going to add linking to other objects on the palm; and I'll
improive linking between items in Shadow lists. But I'm not prepared (yet
anyway :P) to revolutionize linking on the palm.. that'd be a 3rd job
(Shadow is a 2nd one :P). I will support LinkMaster, though, which ought
to get you a lot of things you need, without making me work an extra
lifetime :)

	Oh, if only there was more time in the day..

On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> > 	Automatic back linking isn't likely, as you cannot assume a 
> two
> > way relationship is feasible or useful. 
> 
> Jeff, what do you think about a more dynamic approach for links? 
> Consider 
> 
> - links which have names, you could easily determine why the link was 
> set at all.
> 
> - links which explicitly allow two-way relationships by providing two 
> names (like "Is-Father-Of" and "Is-Son-Of", depending on the item you 
> selected to see the link)
> 
> - links which have entity restrictions (like 1:1, 1:n, ...) to 
> constraint input to a predefined structure.
> 
> - link types which are selectable from a predefined popup
> 
> - links that have a limited time of existence
> 
> ....
> 
> Having this extended link approach over different apps would sure be 
> a killer, but even within Shadow, it would dramatically increase real-
> world data management. The world is a web of things, not a tree :|
> 
> (you won't run out of work, will you? :)
> 
> -Martin
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jim Robbins  <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Thu Mar 1, 2001 9:21pm
Subject: Shadow and Flash RAM

How well does ShadowPlan work with Flash RAM?

1) Can the main program can run from flash?

2) Can read-only lists be stored in flash and accessed as normal lists
(i.e. - show up in main screen, can be link targets, etc)

I vaguely remember something about ShadowPlan modifying itself so it
couldn't be stored in flash RAM. However, I am unable to find anything in
the FAQ, manual, or forum archives that mentions the word flash.

If Shadow does modify itself as some form of shareware protection, could it
be stored in flash once it was registered?

Thanks,

Jim

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Mar 1, 2001 10:15pm
Subject: Re: Shadow and Flash RAM

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Jim Robbins wrote:

> 1) Can the main program can run from flash?

	Perfectly fine.

> 2) Can read-only lists be stored in flash and accessed as normal lists
> (i.e. - show up in main screen, can be link targets, etc)

	I've not checked; writing to flash will crahs Shadow at this time,
but I've not experimented with a lis tintended for read only. I should add
a read-only list-pref, so that you dont' accidentally alter a list and
crash your unit if its in flash :P

> I vaguely remember something about ShadowPlan modifying itself so it
> couldn't be stored in flash RAM. However, I am unable to find anything in
> the FAQ, manual, or forum archives that mentions the word flash.

	Shadow is happy in flash; thats where I keep it :)

> If Shadow does modify itself as some form of shareware protection, could it
> be stored in flash once it was registered?

	No palm app shoudl be self modifying; thats just wrong :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 4:24pm
Subject: SyncML

Jeff,

while building your conduit - did you ever hear about SyncML 
(http://www.syncml.org) ? I just stumbled over it by eandom... Seems 
to be a pretty idea to support an opne standard for syncing 
applications and devices.

-Martin

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 7:03pm
Subject: if not a bug, then a bug-me!

Jeff,

create a new task. (or create a note)

before clicking OK, switch to another app or the launcher via either 
silk or hardware buttons.

return to Shadow.  Your task (or note) is not saved.

I frequently hit the calculator silk with my little finger by 
mistake, while graffiti-ing.  anything I have entered is lost.  
Frustrating.  Also, you lose the ability to switch back and forth to 
other apps in order to cut and paste.

Once you return to the task list, dirty files are saved when 
switching.  Don't you think that this behavior should stay 
consistent?  Is there a reason that you would want to lose a new task 
when switching?

tommyb

From: Philippe D. Radley  <pradley@r...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 7:45pm
Subject:

Every time I link a task to the ToDo list, the new todo comes out as
complete, which to me makes no sense, since what I have created is something
to be done in the future. How can I change this? I see no option to do so.
Philippe D. Radley

From: pig_duck1119@y...
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 10:09pm
Subject: Import To-Do list

Hi Jeff,

I wonder if you will implement "To-DO list import" soon.

Right now I am using ShadowPlan to track my project. I put a link to 
the To-Do for every entries so that I can see all of them from 
DateBk4. However, the problem is sometime when I create a ToDo from 
Datebk4. I have no way to still keep a sychronize copy of To-Do. 

I'd say if shadowplan has an option to sychronize To-do under a 
directory or even an option to import To-Do is sufficient to me.

Pig

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 10:52pm
Subject: Transition from ListMaker

Before purchasing Shadow, I was using ListMaker as an outliner. Right 
now, I still have large amounts of data "locked up" in ListMaker 
which I'd love to have in Shadow.

However, exporting from ListMaker to MemoPad doesn't work because 
several of my lists exceed the 4K limit. Also, the lists that I did 
manage to export to MemoPad didn't import into Shadow correctly. I 
believe this to be a problem with the way ListMaker formats its 
output to MemoPad.

Is there any other way to get my lists from ListMaker into Shadow? 
Right now I have to hold on to ListMaker just because I don't want to 
loose my information.

Roy.

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2001 0:24am
Subject: Re: Transition from ListMaker

Try one of the clipboard enhancers, like MultiClipHack or others.  
These can expand the clipboard to 32K

tommyb

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Roy van der Woning" <rvdw98@y...> wrote:
> Before purchasing Shadow, I was using ListMaker as an outliner. 
Right 
> now, I still have large amounts of data "locked up" in ListMaker 
> which I'd love to have in Shadow.
> 
> However, exporting from ListMaker to MemoPad doesn't work because 
> several of my lists exceed the 4K limit. Also, the lists that I did 
> manage to export to MemoPad didn't import into Shadow correctly. I 
> believe this to be a problem with the way ListMaker formats its 
> output to MemoPad.
> 
> Is there any other way to get my lists from ListMaker into Shadow? 
> Right now I have to hold on to ListMaker just because I don't want 
to 
> loose my information.
> 
> Roy.

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw98@y...>
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2001 2:04pm
Subject: Re: Transition from ListMaker

I have a clipboard enhancer, but I don't see how that could help me. 
My problem is not limited clipboard capacity, but the 4K limit that 
MemoPad imposes.

The clipboard is only useful if I wanted to copy & paste my lists 
from ListMaker to Shadow line by line which would be far too 
laborious and for which the default clipboard size would be more than 
sufficient.

Roy.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., tommyb@i... wrote:
> Try one of the clipboard enhancers, like MultiClipHack or others.  
> These can expand the clipboard to 32K
> 
> tommyb
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Roy van der Woning" <rvdw98@y...> 
wrote:
> > Before purchasing Shadow, I was using ListMaker as an outliner. 
> Right 
> > now, I still have large amounts of data "locked up" in ListMaker 
> > which I'd love to have in Shadow.
> > 
> > However, exporting from ListMaker to MemoPad doesn't work because 
> > several of my lists exceed the 4K limit. Also, the lists that I 
did 
> > manage to export to MemoPad didn't import into Shadow correctly. 
I 
> > believe this to be a problem with the way ListMaker formats its 
> > output to MemoPad.
> > 
> > Is there any other way to get my lists from ListMaker into 
Shadow? 
> > Right now I have to hold on to ListMaker just because I don't 
want 
> to 
> > loose my information.
> > 
> > Roy.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 11:32pm
Subject: Re: Transition from ListMaker

On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> Before purchasing Shadow, I was using ListMaker as an outliner. Right 
> now, I still have large amounts of data "locked up" in ListMaker 
> which I'd love to have in Shadow.

	Great  :)

> However, exporting from ListMaker to MemoPad doesn't work because 
> several of my lists exceed the 4K limit. Also, the lists that I did 

	ListMaker doesn't hewlp you by breaking them up automatically? Tsk
tsk. you could export to memo, then cut out the items that didn't fit, and
export some more. Sucky, but I guess you have few options.

> manage to export to MemoPad didn't import into Shadow correctly. I 
> believe this to be a problem with the way ListMaker formats its 
> output to MemoPad.

	Every app does it differently Shadows import format is fairly
generic and works with lots of apps, but not all sadly.

> Is there any other way to get my lists from ListMaker into Shadow? 
> Right now I have to hold on to ListMaker just because I don't want to 
> loose my information.

	The typical way (albeit a little painful), is to export to memo
and sync to desktop. You can manipulate the memos on your desktop to fit
shadows import format, and then sync to get the memos back to the palm and
then import them into Shadow.  A few steps but it works.

	More options will become available over the next month or two, as
I add more desktop tools to Shadow; eventually you should be able to
import from the desktop to shadow, which gives you much more power.

	Let me know if I can help.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 10:28pm
Subject: Re: Import To-Do list

On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 pig_duck1119@y... wrote:

> Right now I am using ShadowPlan to track my project. I put a link to 
> the To-Do for every entries so that I can see all of them from 
> DateBk4. However, the problem is sometime when I create a ToDo from 
> Datebk4. I have no way to still keep a sychronize copy of To-Do. 
> 
> I'd say if shadowplan has an option to sychronize To-do under a 
> directory or even an option to import To-Do is sufficient to me.

	You can already import all the todos, but I think you wish to pick
up one at a time. I will be adding a "Create from existing..." menu item,
to allow you to pick up existing todo and datebook items. I've just not
decided how best to create a UI for it. Once I nail down a simple UI, I'll
add it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 10:11pm
Subject: Re: SyncML

On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> while building your conduit - did you ever hear about SyncML 
> (http://www.syncml.org) ? I just stumbled over it by eandom... Seems 
> to be a pretty idea to support an opne standard for syncing 
> applications and devices.

	I did stumble across it awhile back; I don't recall my thoughts of
the time, but it didn't seem ready for my use. I don't recall if they had
too much overhead, or if it was for what we need it for, or if it just
wasn't ready yet or not.. I shall have ot revisit it perhaps. If its an
open standard, I'm all for supporting it. Perhaps I'll support my own,
anmd then add theirs as well..

	I've found a few standards so far, and most are not well defined
enough to be of value. Thats one big problem with standards...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 10:24pm
Subject: Re:

On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Philippe D. Radley wrote:

> Every time I link a task to the ToDo list, the new todo comes out as
> complete, which to me makes no sense, since what I have created is something
> to be done in the future. How can I change this? I see no option to do so.

	This is curious; a new item is created unchecked, and as such when
linked should also be unchecked. Are you linking a completed shadow item
to the todo? (In which case, the todo must also be completed, since they
are linked and effectively one and the same). If you wish to have a
completed shadow item become an incomplete todo item, you will need to
link the item, and then orphan it. It will be a copy of the shadow item at
creation time, but will then not be connected in the future, and thus may
be completed on its own.

	Does that help?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2001 10:19pm
Subject: Re: if not a bug, then a bug-me!

On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 tommyb@i... wrote:

> create a new task. (or create a note)
> 
> before clicking OK, switch to another app or the launcher via either 
> silk or hardware buttons.
> 
> return to Shadow.  Your task (or note) is not saved.

	By design; few apps will maintain the fact that you were in that
window and return to it. The question is whethor or not the details should
be saved.

	I intend to have a "Save before exitting?" alert for just such an
occasion. Seems to be the best overall solution.

> Once you return to the task list, dirty files are saved when 
> switching.  Don't you think that this behavior should stay 
> consistent?  Is there a reason that you would want to lose a new task 
> when switching?

	New is one thing; editting an existing one is another... if you
accidentally switch apps after making a bad change, it could be terrible
to come back to a trashed item. An alert ought to make it moot.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2001 3:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Transition from ListMaker

I think memopad memos can *actually* be longer than 4k, but the
memopad application can't deal with them. What happens when ListMaker
exports them? If its only going from LM to Shadow, you might be able to
doit. Then we just need to delete the memos withotu using memopad :)

		jeff

On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> I have a clipboard enhancer, but I don't see how that could help me. 
> My problem is not limited clipboard capacity, but the 4K limit that 
> MemoPad imposes.
> 
> The clipboard is only useful if I wanted to copy & paste my lists 
> from ListMaker to Shadow line by line which would be far too 
> laborious and for which the default clipboard size would be more than 
> sufficient.
> 
> Roy.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., tommyb@i... wrote:
> > Try one of the clipboard enhancers, like MultiClipHack or others.  
> > These can expand the clipboard to 32K
> > 
> > tommyb
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Roy van der Woning" <rvdw98@y...> 
> wrote:
> > > Before purchasing Shadow, I was using ListMaker as an outliner. 
> > Right 
> > > now, I still have large amounts of data "locked up" in ListMaker 
> > > which I'd love to have in Shadow.
> > > 
> > > However, exporting from ListMaker to MemoPad doesn't work because 
> > > several of my lists exceed the 4K limit. Also, the lists that I 
> did 
> > > manage to export to MemoPad didn't import into Shadow correctly. 
> I 
> > > believe this to be a problem with the way ListMaker formats its 
> > > output to MemoPad.
> > > 
> > > Is there any other way to get my lists from ListMaker into 
> Shadow? 
> > > Right now I have to hold on to ListMaker just because I don't 
> want 
> > to 
> > > loose my information.
> > > 
> > > Roy.
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Terry Kyte  <kyte@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 4, 2001 4:15am
Subject: Shadow vs. Bonsai

I was just looking at Bonsai (http://www.natara.com/Bonsai/Index.cfm) and
noticed it has a Windows Desktop and conduit.  As well, it offers the option
to export to doc format.  Jeff, how do you feel Shadow Plan compares overall
to Bonsai?  Or will compare once a desktop & conduit is available?
Timeframe?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 4, 2001 4:42am
Subject: Re: Shadow vs. Bonsai

On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, Terry Kyte wrote:

> I was just looking at Bonsai (http://www.natara.com/Bonsai/Index.cfm) and
> noticed it has a Windows Desktop and conduit.  As well, it offers the option
> to export to doc format.  Jeff, how do you feel Shadow Plan compares overall
> to Bonsai?  Or will compare once a desktop & conduit is available?
> Timeframe?

	You know, I was expecting this any day now :) It appears Bonsai is
the only real competitor of Shadow (though again, do they have a different
goal than I?)

	Feature to feature, I think Shadow comes out on top, though as
always I do not use my competitors tools, so I do not really know. I think
Shadow ahs a slightly different target user, so your mileage may very,
though I'm pretty sure Shadow is more buff overall. I don't wish to steal
features or ideas (since they may not be what my users need or want, and
they might just be dumb features to start with, and I do not wish to go
the same direction as someone else.. I wish to go the direction my users
need of me). I think Shadow itself is the best of the outliners. Desktop
side, they obviously win at this time, since they have a conduit and
desktop app (though last I used their desktop app, it was buggy.. but it
does work well). My conduit is currently one-way only. I have translator
tools in the works (to make it easy to get Shadow files to other apps and
to print, etc), and a desktop app in the works (Shadow, but for the
desktop). They will be coming out in stages .. since I can only work on
one thing at a time. Export to DOC (and import) are coming very soon in
the handheld. Also note that Shadow is much more poweful in the linking
area.. I spend a lot of time making Shadow work well with other apps and
allowing you to use Shadow to group other appos data into your projects
(1.5 will be a fun release!)

	Service, I think I win hands down, though I would say that of
larger companies, they have good service (ie: Go talk to Aportis and see
bad service). But I host mailing lists and web forums, and answers those
plus email very fast. Very few palm apps are updated as frequently as
Shadow, and I doubt many have as personal a touch -- you want something,
its likely you'll get it in Shadow if its a good idea.

	So, toe to toe, I think Shadow has more features and power on the
palmside, and Bonsai has the desktop side. I think I have them beat on
service and support, though they're pretty decent in that arena.

	I think I have more momentum.. I may be one person, but I work
hard. They are a few people, but they have a half dozen things on the go.

	In the end, I don't wish to put them out of business. I think its
good to have two good products in the market (plus progect.. though in the
last month or two I've not heard much about it? Is it in trouble?). I
think we're pretty equal these days, though I hope to have a desktop app
and make my conduit two-way soon.

	I'm going at a different angle, too, though -- my desktop app and
conduit are slower to develop, since they're on open standards, and my
translator tools will let you take Shadow data into other already existing
desktop apps. I think Bonsai is sticking with a more closed approach,
since its easier to develop fopr and support.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Kevin  <kfosler@h...>
Date: Sun Mar 4, 2001 7:00am
Subject: Re: Shadow vs. Bonsai

My 2 cents.

I think Shadow and Bonsai right now serve two slightly different audiences.  I use both products.  Shadow integrates much better with To-Do and Datebook, although to complete that integration I think it has to have ways to import items from those databases (like Arranger, which has become obsoleted by other products).

Bonsai doesn't integrate very well with the built-in databases, but the desktop is pretty good.  It offers true syncronization, so is a step above Brainforest.

As far as service goes, I think it would be hard to beat Shadow (aka Jeff's) service.  We became introduced when I gave him a low rating (and had subsequent constructive discussion in e-mail).

Right now, I'm trying ListPro on the Pocket PC.  Through Audible.com I was able to get a Casio EM-500 for $259.  There are a lot of things I like about the Pocket PC compared to the Palm -- notes can be in normal handwriting, the Transcriber handwriting recognition leaves graffiti in the dust, audio notes can be attached to appointments, tasks, etc, and Audio books / MP3's can be listened to on the devices too.

I think Palm will need to come out with products that can compete in some of those areas, or Palm will go the way of Netscape, losing market share once MS and its hardware partners hit the sweet spot.  I'm not sure when the timing of the Palms with the ARM processors will be, but hopefully soon -- hopefully by summer? although I have heard by the end of the year.

Fortunately, with Intellisync 4 for the Palm and ActiveSync 3.1 for the PocketPC, all my information (tasks, calendar, contacts) is perfectly synchronized between the two devices.  I use the Palm VIIx now mainly for its wireless capabilities -- great in my area since CDPD service is not yet available.

Kevin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Shadow vs. Bonsai


  On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, Terry Kyte wrote:

  > I was just looking at Bonsai (http://www.natara.com/Bonsai/Index.cfm) and
  > noticed it has a Windows Desktop and conduit.  As well, it offers the option
  > to export to doc format.  Jeff, how do you feel Shadow Plan compares overall
  > to Bonsai?  Or will compare once a desktop & conduit is available?
  > Timeframe?

        You know, I was expecting this any day now :) It appears Bonsai is
  the only real competitor of Shadow (though again, do they have a different
  goal than I?)

        Feature to feature, I think Shadow comes out on top, though as
  always I do not use my competitors tools, so I do not really know. I think
  Shadow ahs a slightly different target user, so your mileage may very,
  though I'm pretty sure Shadow is more buff overall. I don't wish to steal
  features or ideas (since they may not be what my users need or want, and
  they might just be dumb features to start with, and I do not wish to go
  the same direction as someone else.. I wish to go the direction my users
  need of me). I think Shadow itself is the best of the outliners. Desktop
  side, they obviously win at this time, since they have a conduit and
  desktop app (though last I used their desktop app, it was buggy.. but it
  does work well). My conduit is currently one-way only. I have translator
  tools in the works (to make it easy to get Shadow files to other apps and
  to print, etc), and a desktop app in the works (Shadow, but for the
  desktop). They will be coming out in stages .. since I can only work on
  one thing at a time. Export to DOC (and import) are coming very soon in
  the handheld. Also note that Shadow is much more poweful in the linking
  area.. I spend a lot of time making Shadow work well with other apps and
  allowing you to use Shadow to group other appos data into your projects
  (1.5 will be a fun release!)

        Service, I think I win hands down, though I would say that of
  larger companies, they have good service (ie: Go talk to Aportis and see
  bad service). But I host mailing lists and web forums, and answers those
  plus email very fast. Very few palm apps are updated as frequently as
  Shadow, and I doubt many have as personal a touch -- you want something,
  its likely you'll get it in Shadow if its a good idea.

        So, toe to toe, I think Shadow has more features and power on the
  palmside, and Bonsai has the desktop side. I think I have them beat on
  service and support, though they're pretty decent in that arena.

        I think I have more momentum.. I may be one person, but I work
  hard. They are a few people, but they have a half dozen things on the go.

        In the end, I don't wish to put them out of business. I think its
  good to have two good products in the market (plus progect.. though in the
  last month or two I've not heard much about it? Is it in trouble?). I
  think we're pretty equal these days, though I hope to have a desktop app
  and make my conduit two-way soon.

        I'm going at a different angle, too, though -- my desktop app and
  conduit are slower to develop, since they're on open standards, and my
  translator tools will let you take Shadow data into other already existing
  desktop apps. I think Bonsai is sticking with a more closed approach,
  since its easier to develop fopr and support.

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: nowobble@y...
Date: Sun Mar 4, 2001 5:48pm
Subject: Item level display preferences

I was wondering if it's possible to do the following in Shadow:

I would like to be able to build a custom list where I could control 
the display preferences for EACH item -- let me give an example 
for illustrative purposes --

Let's say I manage a large account and want to keep most of my 
important information related to that account in ONE list. In the 
list I may have one item (parent and children) that simply give me 
org chart information - no need to display target dates, etc. 
Another item (parent and children) may be a task list for one of 
my program managers working a piece of the account project - 
in that case I WOULD want to be able to display target dates, 
links, etc. for that particular item, AND I would only see the 
displayed information when I expanded the item (I may actually 
see the progress bar before expanding, but it would be nice to 
be able to turn that feature off for the parent so there's nothing 
distracting in the right-hand margin).

I think it's a bit annoying to see all the information in the right 
hand column (plus it takes up precious screen space) when just 
a few of the items in your list are task/checklist - I guess what I'm 
saying is, it would be great to customize right down to the item 
level - enabling you to NOT open those items you KNOW will eat 
up screen space by displaying information in the right-hand 
column.

Hope this makes sense. I LOVE Shadow - I've been a very 
long-time user of Outliner/Brain Forest - I just happened to read 
the review in Pen Computing and I'm glad I did!

Bob

From: Rick Kier  <rick@T...>
Date: Sun Mar 4, 2001 5:39pm
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Transition from ListMaker

Hi Jeff,

Sunday, March 04, 2001, 8:55:10 AM, you wrote:

sdyc> Message: 7
sdyc>    Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:37:45 -0500 (EST)
sdyc>    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
sdyc> Subject: Re: Re: Transition from ListMaker
sdyc> 
sdyc> 
sdyc>         I think memopad memos can *actually* be longer than 4k, but the
sdyc> memopad application can't deal with them. What happens when ListMaker
sdyc> exports them? If its only going from LM to Shadow, you might be able to
sdyc> doit. Then we just need to delete the memos withotu using memopad :)
sdyc> 
sdyc>                 jeff

It is possible to have memopad records that are greater than 4kb in
size.  The memopad app will display them ok.  The problem is that
they will be truncated to 4kb when a HotSync is done.  Believe the
memopad can not display a record greater that 32kb - something to do
with the field widget's maximum size.

We have an app (TS'Catalog) that exports data as memopad records. Just
created a memopad record with 13,105 bytes. The memopad app has no
problems displaying it. Unfortuantely, it won't edit the record. Just
used Wordsmith to edit the memo. Forced Wordsmith to save it as a
memo. The memopad app was able to see the changes without problems.

BTW, Wordsmith is available from www.bluenomad.com.  We use it as a
replacement for the memopad.

Hope this helps,

TeamSTARS
  Dick Gordon and Rick Kier

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 4, 2001 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Item level display preferences

On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 nowobble@y... wrote:

> I was wondering if it's possible to do the following in Shadow:
> 
> I would like to be able to build a custom list where I could control 
> the display preferences for EACH item -- let me give an example 
> for illustrative purposes --

	This is coming; 1.4.0 couldn't do it at all, but the architecture
changes from 1.4 to 1.5 have built in the potential for what I called
"mixed views". As you know, you can create custom lists with whatever you
like in them. I'm planning on adding the ability to save the customized
views to a template file, and then allow you ot override an items
list-view-default with a template view. Thus you could define a few views
youlike, and then save them and then have a list which has most items of
one type,and a few overridden as you need.

	That ought to work well.

> Hope this makes sense. I LOVE Shadow - I've been a very 
> long-time user of Outliner/Brain Forest - I just happened to read 
> the review in Pen Computing and I'm glad I did!

	Thanks for trying it out :) And if you have any more ideas, let me
know :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Mar 4, 2001 10:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Transition from ListMaker

Cool, good news. Shadow is pretty careful about keeping the memos
under the size limit, but its godo to know for export/import sake that
this will work (as long as you do it before a hotsync). I'm goign to build
export-as-doc soon anyway, too.

		jeff

On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Rick Kier wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
> 
> Sunday, March 04, 2001, 8:55:10 AM, you wrote:
> 
> sdyc> Message: 7
> sdyc>    Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:37:45 -0500 (EST)
> sdyc>    From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> sdyc> Subject: Re: Re: Transition from ListMaker
> sdyc> 
> sdyc> 
> sdyc>         I think memopad memos can *actually* be longer than 4k, but the
> sdyc> memopad application can't deal with them. What happens when ListMaker
> sdyc> exports them? If its only going from LM to Shadow, you might be able to
> sdyc> doit. Then we just need to delete the memos withotu using memopad :)
> sdyc> 
> sdyc>                 jeff
> 
> It is possible to have memopad records that are greater than 4kb in
> size.  The memopad app will display them ok.  The problem is that
> they will be truncated to 4kb when a HotSync is done.  Believe the
> memopad can not display a record greater that 32kb - something to do
> with the field widget's maximum size.
> 
> We have an app (TS'Catalog) that exports data as memopad records. Just
> created a memopad record with 13,105 bytes. The memopad app has no
> problems displaying it. Unfortuantely, it won't edit the record. Just
> used Wordsmith to edit the memo. Forced Wordsmith to save it as a
> memo. The memopad app was able to see the changes without problems.
> 
> BTW, Wordsmith is available from www.bluenomad.com.  We use it as a
> replacement for the memopad.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> TeamSTARS
>   Dick Gordon and Rick Kier
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Peter R. Grierson  <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Mon Mar 5, 2001 3:53am
Subject: Re: Transition from ListMaker

LapTopHack allows you to modify the clipboard limit.  I usually have it set
to 4K , so I don't overwhelm the Palm Memo database.

pedit32 allows memos of 32K.  peditPro accesses both the 4K Palm Memo data
base and pedit32's database.  Further it will let you export memo that is
greater than 4K to the Palm memo format as segmented memos

pedit, pedit32 and peditPro also import and export Palm DOC files.

all are available from www.palmgear.com

There is much lively discussion of pedit topics at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peditors

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Mon Mar 5, 2001 4:10am
Subject: Re: if not a bug, then a bug-me!

I think I see what you mean.  If you edited a task, switched away, 
switched back, and Shadow saved in the interim, you could no longer 
cancel the edited changes, right?

but... if there were a buffer to keep the unsaved changes, then you 
could switch back and forth to other apps to cut and paste - 
something that I would find more useful when creating notes than 
tasks, actually - and still cancel back to the original contents if 
necessary.

I suppose MultiClipHack could do this, if Shadow can't.

BTW, I know that many are finding the desktop conduit handy, but I 
for one would like development time more heavily slanted toward the 
handheld, and less toward the desktop.  In any case, I appreciate the 
attention that you give to ALL your users.

tommyb






--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 tommyb@i... wrote:
> 
> > create a new task. (or