From: kencn@a...
Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:26pm
Subject: Re: Ever considered in-place editing?

Mason,

I don't think it's necessary to give up drag-and-drop if you want in-
place editing.  Take a look at the way Bonsai handles it.  They seem 
to have the smoothest interface in this particular area.  The 
downside is that you have to drag the item by the bullet - you can't 
just tap anywhere on the item - and you have to tap the details 
button at the bottom of the screen to 'open' an item.  

For me there are two aspects to in-place editing that I like. First, 
data entry is much more steamlined when most of what you're entering 
is text (not priorities, dates, links, etc.).  For instance when I'm 
just creating an outline of a document vs a project plan.  In some 
cases I've even started my outlines in memopad or wordsmith since I 
can very quickly enter a bunch of text with tabs for indentation and 
then just import it into Shadow later.

The other aspect is seeing context - knowing what other entries in 
the outline contain when entering text.  This is where the small data 
entry window Jeff suggested would come into play.  This is the way 
BrainForest did it and it seems like a reasonable compromise.

Of course, while I may like the way Bonsai handles text input best 
and Brainforest next best, I'm still using Shadow Plan.  Just too 
much other great stuff I couldn't give up.

Ken 


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Mason Curry <mcurry@h...> wrote:
> I'd like to be able to edit text right there in place, but not at 
the
> expense of drag-and-drop.  That's what really makes it easy to get 
the
> outlines organized the way I want them.
> 
> Mason

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 7:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ever considered in-place editing?

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> The other aspect is seeing context - knowing what other entries in 
> the outline contain when entering text.  This is where the small data 

	I've often thought about a simple way of doing it..

Easiest way 1) You start to write, or hit New, and have the "in place
edit" pref set, so the bottom line of the screen gets cleared, a dotted
line drawn, and the cursor appears. A standard palm single-line text entry
field just takes over the bottom line of the screenm. You write away into
that. When you tap out of it, shadow redraws and your text appears where
it would go.

Next less easy way 2) A little popup window; like the detail window, but
only a line or two for text entry, and it appears .. somewhere. Tap
outside of it to dismiss.

Next less easy way 3) Shadow pre-figures out where item will go, and then
pushes items down below it down a bit, to make room for cursor. You start
writing. If your writing goes to next line, Shadow pushes things down
again to make room. Shadows display system isn't well suited to this
continuouskly pushing things down, but I might be able to make it happy to
do so.

The reason for all of these is to make "just start writing" work a little
easier, since it doesn't pop up another window. You still have some
context.

But all you can do is edit the "title text". Tapping out of the edit area
just acts like you hit OK in details.. the item becomes real and Shadow
inserts into the right place and redraws the screen. To edit again, hit
Details, and have the normal detail window come up.

Beyond this is full in-line.. where tapping places a cursor, and
such. Though I'm not sure I want to take Shadow this way yet.. since then
'd be forced into support *Two* separate UI's for data entry, which is a
lot of extra work I don't need right now :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: chris.greenwood@t...
Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:40pm
Subject: List Design

I have just created a list as the basis of a work related ToDo 
structure.  It consists of a list of patents and incorporates details 
on territorial filing, dates and numbers etc.  The intention is to 
add ToDo items as required and link them to DateBk4 as actions, 
whilst keeping them in context within the list.
The list was constructed from a CSV file derrived from Excel and is 
currently 120k on the Palm (peditPro was invaluable for slitting the 
DOC file on the Palm, into memos - 18 in total.  Just a plug with 
referance to an earlier thread).
The problem is that the Shadow file is so large that it takes ages to 
open (~6secs) and close (~15secs) on my Vx, a particular annoyance 
when following a link to memo files etc.  Since this is only the 
start, subsequent additions are likely to make the list unusable.
Now the data is only included as a search target and could just as 
easily be incorporated into the Note field rather than as seperate 
items.  Question is, if I did that, would the list be quicker to open 
and close?  The volume of data would be the same, just configered 
into the list differently.

Regards
Chris

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 9:53pm
Subject: Re: List Design

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 chris.greenwood@t... wrote:

> start, subsequent additions are likely to make the list unusable.
> Now the data is only included as a search target and could just as 
> easily be incorporated into the Note field rather than as seperate 
> items.  Question is, if I did that, would the list be quicker to open 
> and close?  The volume of data would be the same, just configered 
> into the list differently.

	I expect that it will not speed it up at this time; in the past it
would have, but I think (I can't recall offhand) that Notes have to be
scanned during loading and will cause the same loadtime. In the future
this should not be the case, but thats a ways off, yet. Once the desktop
calms down a little, I may look into speedups.. I have plans on adding
some load and save strategies that ought to reduce the time by 50% or
more.. but again a ways off.

	In the short term, you could create a TOC (table of contents) type
file, which then has links to subfiles with actual content. This way you
coudl break your file down into 2-5 more managable files, and then using
Recent Files to get back to the TOC oght be pretty easy. (or link back
from those sub files).

	What OS and unit are you using? They factor in quite a bit. If
you're on a fancy new unit (like Prism, m505, etc) and its still slow at
that size, I'm surprised.. but you could always try AfterBurner or
something (though you shouldn't have to!).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: chris.greenwood@t...
Date: Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:27pm
Subject: Re: List Design

Jeff
I think you have convinced me to stay with the list as is.  The TOC 
is intriguing.  I'll have to think about it.

In the meantime thanks for instant reply.

Regards
Chris

> 
> 	In the short term, you could create a TOC (table of contents) 
type
> file, which then has links to subfiles with actual content. This 
way you
> coudl break your file down into 2-5 more managable files, and then 
using
> Recent Files to get back to the TOC oght be pretty easy. (or link 
back
> from those sub files).
> 
> 	What OS and unit are you using? They factor in quite a bit. If
> you're on a fancy new unit (like Prism, m505, etc) and its still 
slow at
> that size, I'm surprised.. but you could always try AfterBurner or
> something (though you shouldn't have to!).
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Patricia Emerick  <hisimage8@y...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 0:37pm
Subject: Automatic "next action" todo link

Jeff, 

This may have already been discussed -- maybe I just
didn't use the right search words . . . :)

Since I've been using GtD methods I've found that my
lists consist of parents (which are any projects with
more than one step involved) and children (which are
the actual physical actions needed to get the project
done). The children are the ones that get sent to the
todo list.  What I wish for is the ability to list
these children in order and then have them sent (one
at a time) to the todo list as the one above them is
checked off.  Has this been discussed before?  If so,
could you point me in the right direction?  If not, is
this possible (or useful) for sometime in the future? 
 

I know that all work is going towards the desktop --
just thought of this and wanted to ask . . .

Patricia

__________________________________________________
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From: opitz@s...
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 0:40pm
Subject: Re: Ever considered in-place editing?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., kencn@a... wrote:
> Mason,
> 
> I don't think it's necessary to give up drag-and-drop if you want 
in-
> place editing.  Take a look at the way Bonsai handles it.  They seem 
> to have the smoothest interface in this particular area.  The 
> downside is that you have to drag the item by the bullet - you can't 
> just tap anywhere on the item - and you have to tap the details 
> button at the bottom of the screen to 'open' an item.  
> 
For the opposite, look at how Listmaker does it. They allow in-place 
editing and anyplace drag-n-drop. There were times when I tried to 
select a phrase for editing and ended up with the item in a totally 
different part of the outline! This is what is not wanted, IMHO.

Bob

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 0:44pm
Subject: Re: Automatic "next action" todo link

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Patricia Emerick wrote:

> the actual physical actions needed to get the project
> done). The children are the ones that get sent to the
> todo list.  What I wish for is the ability to list
> these children in order and then have them sent (one
> at a time) to the todo list as the one above them is
> checked off.  Has this been discussed before?  If so,
> could you point me in the right direction?  If not, is
> this possible (or useful) for sometime in the future? 

	I think this has only come up once before, ages back, with no
resolution. Is this useful for a lot of people? Is it something like "when
checking off item x, link x's sibling to todo and unlink x"? Would this be
an option set on a parent, or on a whole list? (prefer whole list ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Mason Curry  <mcurry@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 0:51pm
Subject: Re: Automatic "next action" todo link

I'm not against this for anyone that needs it, but for me it would happen so
infrequently that I'd be spending more time setting it up than I'd save.  If
you just go to Shadow and check one off and hit the "T" box to create a TODO
on the next item in the list, it's already pretty simple and flexible.  For me
the flexibility is worth more than rigid automation.  Just my opinion for what
I do.

Mason

Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Patricia Emerick wrote:
>
> > the actual physical actions needed to get the project
> > done). The children are the ones that get sent to the
> > todo list.  What I wish for is the ability to list
> > these children in order and then have them sent (one
> > at a time) to the todo list as the one above them is
> > checked off.  Has this been discussed before?  If so,
> > could you point me in the right direction?  If not, is
> > this possible (or useful) for sometime in the future?
>
>         I think this has only come up once before, ages back, with no
> resolution. Is this useful for a lot of people? Is it something like "when
> checking off item x, link x's sibling to todo and unlink x"? Would this be
> an option set on a parent, or on a whole list? (prefer whole list ;)
>
>                 jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:18pm
Subject: inline edit options

So, any more comments or preferences?

	1) Any in-line-edit options will be *preferences*. You'll be able
to select traditional Shadow way of doing things, or an alternate
"in-line"edit" method.

	2) Edit is invoked as normal, by hitting New, or picking NEw item
from menu, or by just starting writing or typing.

	3) Tapping on the screen will not drop a cursor into a
field; it'll still just select an item as normal. Otherwise it starts
getting nutty, with Shadow supporting *two* interfaces :/

	4) In-line edit can be several ways, in different levels of
difficulty. The idea is to get you faster data entry on the main
screen. You can only enter title text, since of course the target dates,
colour, bolds, etc, are all available in Details window, and you're passin
gon that for the new items. You'll have to hit Details after creating the
item to summon the Detail window, as normal.

	Easiest to develop; can do "soon"; a mini window pops up, with one
line of text field on it (or two, whatever). You can write into it, and
when you tap outside of it, a new item is constructed and paced where it
will go, and the screen is updated ot reflect the new item. Maybe "enter"
should finish the item too, so that you can just type away and make a few
new items in quick succession. The miniwindow would appear at screen
bottom or top, to stay out of the way of where the item will spear when
completed, to give you context.

	Advantages are that you can enter data quicker, and keep some
context.

	Is this all thats needed? Or will those who want in-line editting
only really accept full blown, tapping on the screen places cursor, etc,
style?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: polly_q@y...
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Automatic "next action" todo link

Hi Jeff--

     I don't know how hard this would be to implement, but for me, it 
would make Shadow the "killer app" that my life so desperately 
needs!  I'd certainly want to set the option for a whole list; having 
on a parent-by-parent basis would be nice as well, but less 
necessary, IMHO.  

     As always, thanks for all your hard work and your great 
responsiveness!

--PollyQ


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Patricia Emerick wrote:
> 
> > the actual physical actions needed to get the project
> > done). The children are the ones that get sent to the
> > todo list.  What I wish for is the ability to list
> > these children in order and then have them sent (one
> > at a time) to the todo list as the one above them is
> > checked off.  Has this been discussed before?  If so,
> > could you point me in the right direction?  If not, is
> > this possible (or useful) for sometime in the future? 
> 
> 	I think this has only come up once before, ages back, with no
> resolution. Is this useful for a lot of people? Is it something 
like "when
> checking off item x, link x's sibling to todo and unlink x"? Would 
this be
> an option set on a parent, or on a whole list? (prefer whole list ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Bob Beveridge  <bbeveridge@y...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 4:48pm
Subject: Re: inline edit options

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 8:18 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] inline edit options


>
> So, any more comments or preferences?
>
> 1) Any in-line-edit options will be *preferences*. You'll be able
> to select traditional Shadow way of doing things, or an alternate
> "in-line"edit" method.
>
> 2) Edit is invoked as normal, by hitting New, or picking NEw item
> from menu, or by just starting writing or typing.
>
> 3) Tapping on the screen will not drop a cursor into a
> field; it'll still just select an item as normal. Otherwise it starts
> getting nutty, with Shadow supporting *two* interfaces :/
>
> 4) In-line edit can be several ways, in different levels of
> difficulty. The idea is to get you faster data entry on the main
> screen. You can only enter title text, since of course the target dates,
> colour, bolds, etc, are all available in Details window, and you're passin
> gon that for the new items. You'll have to hit Details after creating the
> item to summon the Detail window, as normal.
>
> Easiest to develop; can do "soon"; a mini window pops up, with one
> line of text field on it (or two, whatever). You can write into it, and
> when you tap outside of it, a new item is constructed and paced where it
> will go, and the screen is updated ot reflect the new item. Maybe "enter"
> should finish the item too, so that you can just type away and make a few
> new items in quick succession. The miniwindow would appear at screen
> bottom or top, to stay out of the way of where the item will spear when
> completed, to give you context.
>
> Advantages are that you can enter data quicker, and keep some
> context.
>
> Is this all thats needed? Or will those who want in-line editting
> only really accept full blown, tapping on the screen places cursor, etc,
> style?
>
> jeff
>

Maybe I'm not following this correctly, but doesn't "inline editing" mean
editing the text without any popup window at all - like your number 3 above?
Isn't your "easiest to develop" solution just a variation of how it works
now?

I am all for inline editing (as others have pointed out, Bonsai is a great
example for this), but I suspect it would be a fundemental change to the way
Shadow works today, and there is probably not an easy way to implement it,
given the paradigm you have already chosen for how Shadow should work.

Bob B.



_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 5:05pm
Subject: Re: inline edit options

On 2001-08-14 at 11:18, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   Easiest to develop; can do "soon"; a mini window pops up, with one
> line of text field on it (or two, whatever). You can write into it, and
> when you tap outside of it, a new item is constructed and paced where it
> will go, and the screen is updated ot reflect the new item. Maybe "enter"
> should finish the item too, so that you can just type away and make a few
> new items in quick succession. The miniwindow would appear at screen
> bottom or top, to stay out of the way of where the item will spear when
> completed, to give you context.

I've used BrainForest before and it has a similar popup window. An advantage
with this approach is that you have one font size for the listing and another
one for entering text.

I liked this method when I used BrainForest.

                    jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 7:52pm
Subject: Re: inline edit options

Jeff:

Since I believe I started this thread, I wanted to weigh in on this 
subject.  Originally, I wanted a faster way begin editing text.  
Hitting "New" just seemed like a wasted tap.  I was not aware that I 
could just start typing.  IMHO, this satisfies the majority of 
people's needs.

The proposed solution is much more cumbersome than the current 
implementation and does not justify the added code overhead.  I do 
not agree that it is quicker entry.  How is it quicker than just 
starting to type.  The only added benefit is being able to view 
context along with the new entry.  Is this really a high demand 
feature request?

My vote is keep it simple.  In this case, do not add the popup window 
text entry solution.


Norman




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	So, any more comments or preferences?
> 
> 	1) Any in-line-edit options will be *preferences*. You'll be 
able
> to select traditional Shadow way of doing things, or an alternate
> "in-line"edit" method.
> 
> 	2) Edit is invoked as normal, by hitting New, or picking NEw 
item
> from menu, or by just starting writing or typing.
> 
> 	3) Tapping on the screen will not drop a cursor into a
> field; it'll still just select an item as normal. Otherwise it 
starts
> getting nutty, with Shadow supporting *two* interfaces :/
> 
> 	4) In-line edit can be several ways, in different levels of
> difficulty. The idea is to get you faster data entry on the main
> screen. You can only enter title text, since of course the target 
dates,
> colour, bolds, etc, are all available in Details window, and you're 
passin
> gon that for the new items. You'll have to hit Details after 
creating the
> item to summon the Detail window, as normal.
> 
> 	Easiest to develop; can do "soon"; a mini window pops up, 
with one
> line of text field on it (or two, whatever). You can write into it, 
and
> when you tap outside of it, a new item is constructed and paced 
where it
> will go, and the screen is updated ot reflect the new item. 
Maybe "enter"
> should finish the item too, so that you can just type away and make 
a few
> new items in quick succession. The miniwindow would appear at screen
> bottom or top, to stay out of the way of where the item will spear 
when
> completed, to give you context.
> 
> 	Advantages are that you can enter data quicker, and keep some
> context.
> 
> 	Is this all thats needed? Or will those who want in-line 
editting
> only really accept full blown, tapping on the screen places cursor, 
etc,
> style?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Don Kurre  <reo@n...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 8:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: inline edit options

Jeff, I would agree also. Keep it simple! I really like the start writing to
enter an item.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: <sjpanther01@h...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:52 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: inline edit options


> Jeff:
>
> Since I believe I started this thread, I wanted to weigh in on this
> subject.  Originally, I wanted a faster way begin editing text.
> Hitting "New" just seemed like a wasted tap.  I was not aware that I
> could just start typing.  IMHO, this satisfies the majority of
> people's needs.
>
> The proposed solution is much more cumbersome than the current
> implementation and does not justify the added code overhead.  I do
> not agree that it is quicker entry.  How is it quicker than just
> starting to type.  The only added benefit is being able to view
> context along with the new entry.  Is this really a high demand
> feature request?
>
> My vote is keep it simple.  In this case, do not add the popup window
> text entry solution.
>
>
> Norman
>
>
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> > So, any more comments or preferences?
> >
> > 1) Any in-line-edit options will be *preferences*. You'll be
> able
> > to select traditional Shadow way of doing things, or an alternate
> > "in-line"edit" method.
> >
> > 2) Edit is invoked as normal, by hitting New, or picking NEw
> item
> > from menu, or by just starting writing or typing.
> >
> > 3) Tapping on the screen will not drop a cursor into a
> > field; it'll still just select an item as normal. Otherwise it
> starts
> > getting nutty, with Shadow supporting *two* interfaces :/
> >
> > 4) In-line edit can be several ways, in different levels of
> > difficulty. The idea is to get you faster data entry on the main
> > screen. You can only enter title text, since of course the target
> dates,
> > colour, bolds, etc, are all available in Details window, and you're
> passin
> > gon that for the new items. You'll have to hit Details after
> creating the
> > item to summon the Detail window, as normal.
> >
> > Easiest to develop; can do "soon"; a mini window pops up,
> with one
> > line of text field on it (or two, whatever). You can write into it,
> and
> > when you tap outside of it, a new item is constructed and paced
> where it
> > will go, and the screen is updated ot reflect the new item.
> Maybe "enter"
> > should finish the item too, so that you can just type away and make
> a few
> > new items in quick succession. The miniwindow would appear at screen
> > bottom or top, to stay out of the way of where the item will spear
> when
> > completed, to give you context.
> >
> > Advantages are that you can enter data quicker, and keep some
> > context.
> >
> > Is this all thats needed? Or will those who want in-line
> editting
> > only really accept full blown, tapping on the screen places cursor,
> etc,
> > style?
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 8:37pm
Subject: Re: inline edit options

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Bob Beveridge wrote:

> Maybe I'm not following this correctly, but doesn't "inline editing" mean
> editing the text without any popup window at all - like your number 3 above?
> Isn't your "easiest to develop" solution just a variation of how it works
> now?

	Yes, exactly. Hence, easy to develop ;) I did usage pattern
studies and such to find out how peopel would want to use the application,
and I found it was much more leaning towards read than writing, and most
readers want everything grouped together. Hence how it works now. Chaning
how it works to have two separate UI's is tough, and wasteful -- Palm
applications must be both very efficient and very small, which is a tall
order. Mixing a second UI is rather against the theory, and tough to do
well.. hence..

	Varient on a theme.

	So the question is.. *why* inline editting? 

	1) Faster input (no big screen changes)
	2) Context; you can see the stuff on screen while entering text

	So, the varient on a theme mentioned would address these two
things, without significantly altering anything.

> I am all for inline editing (as others have pointed out, Bonsai is a great
> example for this), but I suspect it would be a fundemental change to the way
> Shadow works today, and there is probably not an easy way to implement it,
> given the paradigm you have already chosen for how Shadow should work.

	Yep :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ~SS~  <serendipitous-one@h...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 9:37pm
Subject: Re: inline edit options

I have tried Bonsai with in line editing.  I choose Shadow because the
flashing cursor in Bonsai drove me crazy when I was only viewing an outline.
I also tried BrainForest, and I guess I could live with the little pop up
window, but really didn't like that either.    Jeff mentioned a line at the
bottom of the palm screen for editing which may not be bad which seems like
the best option so far if a change has to be made.

annie

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 9:49pm
Subject: Re: inline edit options

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, ~SS~ wrote:

> I have tried Bonsai with in line editing.  I choose Shadow because the
> flashing cursor in Bonsai drove me crazy when I was only viewing an outline.
> I also tried BrainForest, and I guess I could live with the little pop up
> window, but really didn't like that either.    Jeff mentioned a line at the
> bottom of the palm screen for editing which may not be bad which seems like
> the best option so far if a change has to be made.

	No change has to be made, since most people like the way things
work now. The in-line stuff we're talking about now is all just up in the
air, and if it did become desirable, it'd be a pref or user option. I'm
certainly not going to change the overall way the program works at this
late stage in its life :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Bob Beveridge  <bbeveridge@y...>
Date: Tue Aug 14, 2001 11:16pm
Subject: Re: inline edit options

>
> So the question is.. *why* inline editting?
>
> 1) Faster input (no big screen changes)
> 2) Context; you can see the stuff on screen while entering text
>
> So, the varient on a theme mentioned would address these two
> things, without significantly altering anything.
>

I guess I think Shadow is already pretty fast for "entry" of data; and for
#2, I think you are proposing a partial solution; I'm not sure this is worth
the effort - I would rather see you devote time to making drag & drop a bit
better, or work on one of the many other suggestions that various users have
suggested.

> > I am all for inline editing (as others have pointed out, Bonsai is a
great
> > example for this), but I suspect it would be a fundemental change to the
way
> > Shadow works today, and there is probably not an easy way to implement
it,
> > given the paradigm you have already chosen for how Shadow should work.
>
> Yep :/
>
> jeff

I would like to see inline editing someday, but since it doesn't really fit
in with the way the program is designed, I would not worry about it now.
Maybe someday you will decide to re-write the whole thing for some reason -
that would be the time to introduce such a big change.

Bob B.


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From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 0:32am
Subject: Excuse me if you've heard this one before...

I have suggestion regarding sorting.

It seems that sort by date puts undated before dated ones.  While 
this makes numeric sense, I think that most people would want to see 
the dated todo's first, then the undated ones.  

By the way, Outlook does the same thing.

Just my too sense :)

From: Mason Curry  <mcurry@h...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 0:44am
Subject: Re: Excuse me if you've heard this one before...

Not necessarily

Mason

grumpstone@y... wrote:

> I have suggestion regarding sorting.
>
> It seems that sort by date puts undated before dated ones.  While
> this makes numeric sense, I think that most people would want to see
> the dated todo's first, then the undated ones.
>
> By the way, Outlook does the same thing.
>
> Just my too sense :)
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: bynumr@e...
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:14am
Subject: memorymgr error

I've got a couple of different projects save with Shadow.  Recently, 
every time I make a change or save a project, I get a 
memorymgr.c,Line:4365, NULL handle error.  Anyone have any idea what 
I need to do to correct.  I have version 1.5.14 

Thanks
RKB

From: jacques@t...
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:18pm
Subject: Re: edit options :fast entry for a batch of items and split screen ?

Was :  inline edit options
Hello Jeff,

At 11:18 14/08/2001 -0400, you wrote:

>         So, any more comments or preferences?

I don't vote for what is effort, footprint, pref complexity, misleading 
displays just for comfort and esthetics'sake ;-)

KIS !!

When you have to drop a new idea, item, I find Shadow entry pretty fast as 
is. I sure wouldn't suffer a flashing cursor while I'm reading !

>The idea is to get you faster data entry on the main
>screen.

"faster data entry" is a (good) *objective*,
"on the main screen" is only a possible *method* : don't mix ;-)


I find Shadow pretty fast for *one* entry, but not so much for a bunch of 
entries :

I would like to tie this discussion to a wish we were quite a few to agree 
on, some months ago : fast entry for a batch of items (just for text, not 
for time and priorities). In the note editor the first chunk (till the 
first EOL) would become item title, the remaining would be the note. A 
"new" button *inside* the note entry form would allow you to proceed to 
next item/note without coming back to main UI.


What I found interesting in today's posts was the idea of having an eye on 
the surrounding outline while entering text. It's interesting only when you 
make a lot of items entry at a time (as above "batch"), not for a single 
one, when you already know where you are when you begin !

Then, what about a split screen option (as in Datebooks with todos) : top 
would be outline view, bottom would be note entry form ("batch" enhanced). 
Maybe the divider would be pen adjustable ? So that wouldn't be a brand new 
UI either for the user, either for you.

Is it clear enough ?
Would others find it usefull (I would !) ?
Is it easy enough to build ?


Jacques

PS - An other way for fast entry, would be import (from memos or doc?) as 
subtree of current item. But I believe the (soon to come ?) desktop will 
bring a far better alternative !!!

From: New Stuff  <newstuff@i...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 10:34am
Subject: new item line, next action, other suggestions

I like the idea of one line at bottom of screen to start a new item while still in context of the overall outline.  I think it could be very useful for some types of lists (aka per list option).  I'm not how much I'd use it personally, so it gets a low priority vote from me.

While I'm thinking about it... Why does the details screen have so many lines, but no option to change the font size?  I'd figure that most people would usually type a line or two summary and attach a note if more text is needed.  If this is the case, it would be much more efficient to allow larger fonts and/or add more commonly used options directly to the details screen.  Perhaps adding a priority dropdown (which can currently only be changed when shown in the main outline)?  Maybe squeeze the auto-numbering label and dropdown onto the same line?  I think most people get the idea after "1-2-3" without needing the "-4-5" too.  :)

I agree with Patricia on the "next action" option.  I found the feature really useful in Life Balance.  Maybe you could only have the ToDo link created when the Start Date for the task hits?  Of course that would only work for people who use SP on a daily basis (so SP could scan the outline and link upon startup).  But I guess that most people who'd want to do that already use SP constantly.  But what about other outlines that aren't opened that day?  Nevermind.. the whole thing seems like too much work now.  :)  Still gets a low priority vote from me if you can figure out how it would work.

A few other suggestions I have:
- Should be able to use the page up/down buttons to scroll when choosing an import memo.
- I think undated items should be last when sorted by date.
- Suppress title wrap should show as much of last word as possible.
- On details screen, task type dropdown should stay as "list type" instead of reverting to showing what the current list type is. 
- New items should be able to optionally inherit all properties from their parent, including linking and category.
- It would be sweet if ShadowPlan could ignore all that Datebk4 memo junk.
- It would be just as sweet if ShadowPlan could use datebook categories.

OK, I'm done for now.  Wait... I want HandEra hi-res support, too.  Now I'm done.  Keep up the good work, Jeff.  ShadowPlan  is truly impressive!!
  -- Cason


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Patricia Emerick  <hisimage8@y...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 11:15am
Subject: Re: Automatic "next action" todo items

Would this be an option set on a parent, or on a whole
list? (prefer whole list ;)

		jeff

 
 If you just go to Shadow and check one off and hit
the "T" box to create a 
TODO
on the next item in the list, it's already pretty
simple and flexible.  
For me
the flexibility is worth more than rigid automation. 
Just my opinion 
for what
I do.

Jeff and Mason, 

Yes, whole list would be fine.  As to Mason's
suggestion above, that would be fine if I checked off
todo's from within Shadow, but I use ToDo+ as my daily
to do list because of it's complex repeat capabilities
and, more importantly, it's filtering capabilities. 
On the GtD list some have mentioned using LB for this
and apparently there is an option something along the
lines of "complete subtasks in order".  So, when
planning a project, you list actions in the order they
need to be done and as you check one off the next will
appear in your to do list.  

Make sense? 

Patricia



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From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 11:52am
Subject: Re: memorymgr error

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 bynumr@e... wrote:

> I've got a couple of different projects save with Shadow.  Recently, 
> every time I make a change or save a project, I get a 
> memorymgr.c,Line:4365, NULL handle error.  Anyone have any idea what 
> I need to do to correct.  I have version 1.5.14 

	This is a rare little bug in the clipboard code; IIRC, you likely
did some copy/pastes while opening and closing a list or two..

	Try grabbing this 1.5.15 beta (same as 1.5.14, plus a fix for this
clipboard issue thats been haunting us awhile)

	http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow1515.zip

	Let me know how it goes..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 0:10pm
Subject: Re: edit options :fast entry for a batch of items and split screen ?

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> I would like to tie this discussion to a wish we were quite a few to agree 
> on, some months ago : fast entry for a batch of items (just for text, not 
> for time and priorities). In the note editor the first chunk (till the 
> first EOL) would become item title, the remaining would be the note. A 
> "new" button *inside* the note entry form would allow you to proceed to 
> next item/note without coming back to main UI.

	I'm not sure I want to put a "New" on the Note screen; that'd
confuse the heck out of people. ("A new note?")  I could make it so if the
title text field is empty, and you add a note, the first sentence (up till
the last word that'd fit if too long) goes into the title text field (as
well as leaving it in the note, I asume?), and maybe make a quicker way to
get straight to notes instead of details (???), though. *shrug*

> Then, what about a split screen option (as in Datebooks with todos) : top 
> would be outline view, bottom would be note entry form ("batch" enhanced). 
> Maybe the divider would be pen adjustable ? So that wouldn't be a brand new 
> UI either for the user, either for you.
> 
> Is it clear enough ?

	I've been wanting to do this for awhile..

> Would others find it usefull (I would !) ?

	Sure, it'd make linking easier ;)

> Is it easy enough to build ?

	No :/ Pretty rough, actually.

> PS - An other way for fast entry, would be import (from memos or doc?) as 
> subtree of current item. But I believe the (soon to come ?) desktop will 
> bring a far better alternative !!!

	The desktop will be extremely rudimentary in its first
incarnation. It'll grow over time as well, though. The new conduit ought
be ready for first alpha stage this weekend, with luck.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 0:20pm
Subject: Re: new item line, next action, other suggestions

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, New Stuff wrote:

> efficient to allow larger fonts and/or add more commonly used options
> directly to the details screen.  Perhaps adding a priority dropdown
> (which can currently only be changed when shown in the main outline)?  
> Maybe squeeze the auto-numbering label and dropdown onto the same
> line?  I think most people get the idea after "1-2-3" without needing
> the "-4-5" too.  :)

	Priority is settable in details, if priority is available for that
item's view. I may make the sometimes-hidden attributes always visible,
since you can so easily swap views..

	Font support is on my list of things to worry about for 1.7.0 and
sadly not 1.6.0.

> - Should be able to use the page up/down buttons to scroll when
> choosing an import memo.

	Hmm. Thought they worked :)

> - I think undated items should be last when sorted by date.

	Not all people do. Tough one.

> - Suppress title wrap should show as much of last word as possible.

	A few Germans have requested this; in general, people seam to like
word-wrap and not just letter-wrap. *shrug*

> - On details screen, task type dropdown should stay as "list type"
> instead of reverting to showing what the current list type is.

	hmm?

> - New items should be able to optionally inherit all properties from
> their parent, including linking and category.

	Most people do not want to inherit everything into children; ie:
Consider that one level is titles in an esay, and the children level is
just prose. The titles may be bold, with Roman autonumbers. The children
would certainly not be.

	Todo category I may make inherited in a more dynamic way, later
(ie: If no todo category set, then climb up the tree looking for a parent
that has one assigned and use it?).

	Linking shouldn't be implicit perhaps; certainly having an item
inherit addresses, memos, todolinks, etc strikes me as meaningless;
inheriting todos and datebooks is pure bad, since then the items would
sync together and the parent and child would always look the same :P

> - It would be sweet if ShadowPlan could ignore all that Datebk4 memo junk.

	yeah; This is on my todo list for "later" -- I'm workign onthings
that benefit all Shadow users for now, and not features that help out just
ActNames or just DB4 users. I would like to support AN and DB4 icons, and
hjide their memo schtuff, though.

> - It would be just as sweet if ShadowPlan could use datebook categories.

	Shadow's category model will be much more powerful than other palm
apps, and so can't map easy to some other apps category extensions. (ie:
Shadow will let you have 200 categories, and not just 15 :P). Again
though, Shadow ties into DB4 and AN well, but through using standard stuff
and not their extensions..

> OK, I'm done for now.  Wait... I want HandEra hi-res support, too.  
> Now I'm done.  Keep up the good work, Jeff.  ShadowPlan is truly
> impressive!!

	Man. Quite a list :P I've got my work cut out for me :P

	Hires support will come when Palm picks which standard they're
going with; or if they don't, then I'll pick one, and do it first :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: bynumr@e...
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 8:09pm
Subject: Re: memorymgr error

Thanks Jeff, it seems to work great.  

RKB
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 bynumr@e... wrote:
> 
> > I've got a couple of different projects save with Shadow.  
Recently, 
> > every time I make a change or save a project, I get a 
> > memorymgr.c,Line:4365, NULL handle error.  Anyone have any idea 
what 
> > I need to do to correct.  I have version 1.5.14 
> 
> 	This is a rare little bug in the clipboard code; IIRC, you 
likely
> did some copy/pastes while opening and closing a list or two..
> 
> 	Try grabbing this 1.5.15 beta (same as 1.5.14, plus a fix for 
this
> clipboard issue thats been haunting us awhile)
> 
> 	http://www.codejedi.com/shadowplan/shadow-test/shadow1515.zip
> 
> 	Let me know how it goes..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jjjk40@y...
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:38pm
Subject: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

Hi there (especially Jeff)!

I like to use the "Suppress title word wrap" setting on my lists to 
see as many entries on one page as possible.

However, when I use the setting, Shadow breaks the titles at spaces, 
replacing the first non-fitting word with "...". This makes sometimes 
very short lines, maybe just the first word of an entry (I use the 
Finnish language, which often has long words).

Could you think of making the long titles show up to the end of the 
line (minus the note icon, of course, where appropriate), breaking the 
word in the middle and inserting "..." at the last character position? 
This would make the setting "Suppress title word wrap" more usable.

Anyway, thanks for Shadow: it's great, couldn't work without it.

Jouni

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:48pm
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

How many others want this?

	I got 3 requests this week for it :)

	Should "Suppress title wordwrap" always do this, or do most people
want it broken at a space, and others at a letter?

		jeff

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 jjjk40@y... wrote:

> Hi there (especially Jeff)!
> 
> I like to use the "Suppress title word wrap" setting on my lists to 
> see as many entries on one page as possible.
> 
> However, when I use the setting, Shadow breaks the titles at spaces, 
> replacing the first non-fitting word with "...". This makes sometimes 
> very short lines, maybe just the first word of an entry (I use the 
> Finnish language, which often has long words).
> 
> Could you think of making the long titles show up to the end of the 
> line (minus the note icon, of course, where appropriate), breaking the 
> word in the middle and inserting "..." at the last character position? 
> This would make the setting "Suppress title word wrap" more usable.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for Shadow: it's great, couldn't work without it.
> 
> Jouni
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:48pm
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

Either way is ok with me Jeff. i would rather  you decide this one, instead
of having another preference to worry about. Keep up the excellent work.

Scott


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Title word wrap suppression and long    
                    08/15/2001           first words                                                               
                    04:48 PM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   





           How many others want this?

           I got 3 requests this week for it :)

           Should "Suppress title wordwrap" always do this, or do most
people
want it broken at a space, and others at a letter?

                     jeff

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 jjjk40@y... wrote:

> Hi there (especially Jeff)!
>
> I like to use the "Suppress title word wrap" setting on my lists to
> see as many entries on one page as possible.
>
> However, when I use the setting, Shadow breaks the titles at spaces,
> replacing the first non-fitting word with "...". This makes sometimes
> very short lines, maybe just the first word of an entry (I use the
> Finnish language, which often has long words).
>
> Could you think of making the long titles show up to the end of the
> line (minus the note icon, of course, where appropriate), breaking the
> word in the middle and inserting "..." at the last character position?
> This would make the setting "Suppress title word wrap" more usable.
>
> Anyway, thanks for Shadow: it's great, couldn't work without it.
>
> Jouni
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

>
>

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: Frank Crowe  <fcrowe@i...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

Prefer a break when line is full whether mid word or not.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Title word wrap suppression and long first
words


>
> How many others want this?
>
> I got 3 requests this week for it :)
>
> Should "Suppress title wordwrap" always do this, or do most people
> want it broken at a space, and others at a letter?
>
> jeff
>
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 jjjk40@y... wrote:
>
> > Hi there (especially Jeff)!
> >
> > I like to use the "Suppress title word wrap" setting on my lists to
> > see as many entries on one page as possible.
> >
> > However, when I use the setting, Shadow breaks the titles at spaces,
> > replacing the first non-fitting word with "...". This makes sometimes
> > very short lines, maybe just the first word of an entry (I use the
> > Finnish language, which often has long words).
> >
> > Could you think of making the long titles show up to the end of the
> > line (minus the note icon, of course, where appropriate), breaking the
> > word in the middle and inserting "..." at the last character position?
> > This would make the setting "Suppress title word wrap" more usable.
> >
> > Anyway, thanks for Shadow: it's great, couldn't work without it.
> >
> > Jouni
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

From: jacques@t...  <jacques@t...>
Date: Wed Aug 15, 2001 10:40pm
Subject: Rép.:Re: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> a écrit le  16/8/01 0:22:

>
>	How many others want 
>this?

Don't really need it, but don't mind : most of my titles are less one line,
and I have wordwrap always set.

Jacques Turbé

From: Steven Whatley  <swhatley@b...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 3:28am
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 	Should "Suppress title wordwrap" always do this, or do most people
> want it broken at a space, and others at a letter?

Letter, please.

Thanks,
Steven

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:08am
Subject: Re: Automatic "next action" todo link

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> Is this useful for a lot of people?

I too have just started implementing GTD methods, and would *love* to
see this feature in Shadow.

> Is it something like "when checking off item x, link x's sibling to
> todo and unlink x"?

Exactly!

> Would this be an option set on a parent, or on a whole list?
> (prefer whole list ;)

Many of my "projects" (i.e. per GTD, require more than one action to 
complete) are grouped into one file, as individual Task Lists, but 
some siblings are not necessarily projects themselves, maybe project 
Notes.  If the option were implemented on a list basis, when a 
project were complete, my Notes would be linked to a ToDo, and I 
wouldn't want that.

How about a compromise?  Rather than have the option apply to a whole 
list (can be intrusive, as I described above) or apply to any parent 
(maybe too complex?), how about only having it apply to Task List 
types when turned on?

Greg

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:10am
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many others want this?
>
> 	Should "Suppress title wordwrap" always do this, or do most
> people want it broken at a space, and others at a letter?

Show as much text as possible, regardless of whether the line ends in 
mid-word or not.  Keep the ellipsis... :-)

Greg

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:32am
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression and long first words

On 2001-08-15 at 21:38, jjjk40@y... wrote:

> However, when I use the setting, Shadow breaks the titles at spaces, 
> replacing the first non-fitting word with "...". This makes sometimes 
> very short lines, maybe just the first word of an entry (I use the 
> Finnish language, which often has long words).

I kind of have the same problem, Swedish has longer words than English but much
shorter than Finnish, about the same as German.

                jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/

From: jreyes1958@y...
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:34am
Subject: Null dates

Would like to see filter option to suppress null dates. If you select
a filter such as current and future targets or current or past
targets, you get a list of all the dated ones in the list that match
criteria plus all the UNDATED ones. If you have hundreds of undated
ones as I do that have not been "called to action" yet, it makes these
filters useless. 

What is interesting is that the filter "Items starting today" will
also give you todays items plus UNDATED ones, but the filter "This
week's starting items" or "this week's target items" will correctly
filter out only the ones with starting or target dates in this week
and will suppress items with starting dates that are null. 

Only option I can see at this point is to date everything to some date
like 12/31/2029 to filter out the nulls. But would have to do the same
for starting dates as well.

ToDo Plus handles this with a filter called no dates. It also has a
nifty filter called Radar -- which is tasks that are overdue plus
today plus future seven days. Probably my oft used filter.

I've exchanged emails already with Jeff a couple of times about null
dates before I discovered this forum, but wanted to make sure that my
concern was not out of the ordinary. Jeff is working hard on the
desktop version so can't get to this anytime soon, but his response
has been fabulous. 

Just wanted to get it on the radar screen and see if anyone finds this
 feature important

From: lists@t...
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:40pm
Subject: Getting things into Shadow...

My first post as a registered user...well, at least I've given 
palmgear my cc info, still waiting on the reg code...but no rush.

I am finally starting to use Shadow and DateBk4 as tools for GTD. I 
have run into a bit of a hassle getting things into Shadow and would 
like some advice, or perhaps an enhancement to Shadow.

I guess first I should provide a brief overview of what I am doing:

I keep all of my project information in Shadow lists. As an item 
becomes actionable I will link it to the todo database with the 
appropriate category (ie @Phone, if I the item is a call). 

In DateBk4 I have views setup to show todo information for various 
contexts. For example if I chose the Work Desk view, Datebk4 will 
display the @phone, @workpc, and @desk categories. This gives me a 
nice list of things I can do for each place I work during the day. 

As information comes in I am currently using the DateBk4 new function 
mapped to a todo item to be placed in the Inbox category (the 
category is hidden from all views so the Inbox stuff doesn't clutter 
the screen). I love this approach because while my day is in high 
gear I can use one interface to run my activities. I can get things 
out of and in to the Palm very quickly without changing applications. 
The only time I have to change anything is to tell DateBk4 I have 
switched locations.

This is where Shadow comes in...how do I get all of the Inbox todo 
items moved into my Shadowplan? Right now it is a very messy process 
of doing a new from and scrolling through all of my todos. I could 
also import my entire todo list and go through it within Shadow, but 
I think this is even messier.

So, request number 1:

- It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the todo from the 
todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This would give 
me a clean inbox each time I process this information as well as 
shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".

My second request is one of the following:

- Be able to filter the new from list by category. I know I've seen 
this in here before, so just add my vote for that feature. It would 
be nice to have the filter "stick" so that I don't have to reapply it 
each time I enter Shadow.

                           or

- Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 

I would prefer the New From filtering...couple that with the ability 
to remove the todo once it's been brought into Shadow and I'd be all 
set. Likewise implementing the second option with the remove function 
and I'd be set too.

So, those are my requests to Jeff...my requests for fellow GTDers or 
Shadow users is to suggest alternate ways for what I am doing. 
Perhaps I am missing something here...not sure...thus my post ;-)

Thanks,
Keith

From: Michael Bryan  <moid@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 4:42pm
Subject: RE: Null dates

-> Would like to see filter option to suppress null dates. If you select
-> a filter such as current and future targets or current or past
-> targets, you get a list of all the dated ones in the list that match
-> criteria plus all the UNDATED ones. If you have hundreds of undated
-> ones as I do that have not been "called to action" yet, it makes these
-> filters useless. 

I agree and am running into the same set of problems described here.

-mike

From: aschell2000@h...
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 5:00pm
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression + request

keep it as long as possible rather than just complete words.  

As well, one of the related features I liked when I was using 
progect, was that the title wrap was configurable.  I generally like 
to use title word wrap, but I'd like to be able to set a max of 2 
lines or 3 lines etc. rather than have some items wrap to 6 lines 
etc.  This could probably be just a global setting, unless some want 
it list specific.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many others want this?
> 
> 	I got 3 requests this week for it :)
> 
> 	Should "Suppress title wordwrap" always do this, or do most 
people
> want it broken at a space, and others at a letter?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 jjjk40@y... wrote:
> 
> > Hi there (especially Jeff)!
> > 
> > I like to use the "Suppress title word wrap" setting on my lists 
to 
> > see as many entries on one page as possible.
> > 
> > However, when I use the setting, Shadow breaks the titles at 
spaces, 
> > replacing the first non-fitting word with "...". This makes 
sometimes 
> > very short lines, maybe just the first word of an entry (I use 
the 
> > Finnish language, which often has long words).
> > 
> > Could you think of making the long titles show up to the end of 
the 
> > line (minus the note icon, of course, where appropriate), 
breaking the 
> > word in the middle and inserting "..." at the last character 
position? 
> > This would make the setting "Suppress title word wrap" more 
usable.
> > 
> > Anyway, thanks for Shadow: it's great, couldn't work without it.
> > 
> > Jouni
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Getting things into Shadow...

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 lists@t... wrote:

> So, request number 1:
> 
> - It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the todo from the 
> todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This would give 
> me a clean inbox each time I process this information as well as 
> shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".

	Hmmm. Maybe.

> My second request is one of the following:
> 
> - Be able to filter the new from list by category. I know I've seen 
> this in here before, so just add my vote for that feature. It would 
> be nice to have the filter "stick" so that I don't have to reapply it 
> each time I enter Shadow.

	Thats definitely on my list of things to do.

> - Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 

	I'd definately first allow filtering by category.. more people
would use that.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 5:29pm
Subject: Re: Re: Title word wrap suppression + request

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:

> keep it as long as possible rather than just complete words.  
> 
> As well, one of the related features I liked when I was using 
> progect, was that the title wrap was configurable.  I generally like 
> to use title word wrap, but I'd like to be able to set a max of 2 
> lines or 3 lines etc. rather than have some items wrap to 6 lines 
> etc.  This could probably be just a global setting, unless some want 
> it list specific.

	Interesting. Hmm.

	So, do I change existing behaviour.. hmm.... always a tough choice
:/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: BeccaE  <beccaE@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 6:55pm
Subject: Handheld weekly

Jeff, I see that ShadowPlan got a mention in this week's Handheld Weekly :).

This link:
http://www.hhmgroup.com/publications/weekly/wk0095h.pdf

Becca :)

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:15pm
Subject: Re: Handheld weekly

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, BeccaE wrote:

> Jeff, I see that ShadowPlan got a mention in this week's Handheld Weekly :).
> 
> This link:
> http://www.hhmgroup.com/publications/weekly/wk0095h.pdf

	Neato :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Michael Bryan  <moid@e...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 7:58pm
Subject: Customizing a ShadowPlan list and BUG REPORT

I use Shadow for a variety of things and really like it a lot!! Jeff, Thanks
for providing such a great and flexible tool!

One thing I'd like to see in the future is a set of user-definable types.
Currently there are 4 pre-defined types and one Custom type (Checklist,
Note, Tasklist, Flat and Custom). Each of these types have a fixed set of
attributes that can't be changed with the exception of Custom. I'd like to
see something like 3 user-definable types that can be defined separately
(ie. user1, user2, user3 or Custom1, Custom2 ...)

The way I understand how it works now, I can customize the entire list to
have whatever attributes I choose. I can then change single list items to
specific types, each tied to a fixed set of attributes (ie. Checklist, Note
or Tasklist). I agree that this takes care of most situations but I continue
to run into the following scenario where I'd really like to be able to
configure a list as follows:

Parents: progress only (no checkbox, no priority, no links)
Children: Checkbox, Priority, Target Date and Link Arrow Column
	where:
		Parents = any items that have children

This way, I can prioritize the children and check them off as they are
completed as well as see the target date without going into the detail
screen. At the parent level I can see the progress of the completed children
but without a checkbox since it doesn't make sense to check off a parent in
most cases that I've run across. An item with a progress bar that is filled
is essentially the same as an item that's checked, there are just degrees of
being checked (10%, 20%, etc.), so having just the progress bar on parent
items is adequate for me. I realize that there are many exceptions though,
which is why these things are customizable.

My partial workaround has been to customize the list as described above for
Children and also to check the "suppress autocheck" option in the list
options. I then go through and change the parents to be of type Tasklist.
This gives me just about everything I want except that parent items still
have check boxes, priority bubbles and a Link Arrow.

If there were a couple of user definable types that I could define, I could
then apply them to the entire list, or to individual items. This would
provide a lot of flexibility over the current implementation.



BUG REPORT:
There is also a bug I've run across while using the scenario described
above.

I have a child item linked to a TODO in Datebk4 for example. If I check the
item off from Datebk 4, the child item is automatically checked off in both
the TODO database and ShadowPlan but the progress bar(s) on the item's
parent(s) are not updated to reflect the change. If the parent has a parent,
etc and they all have progress bars, none of them are updated. The
workarounds I've found are to either check things off only in ShadowPlan, or
if I forget to do that I then have to go into Shadow and uncheck/re-check
each item to update the parent's progress bar(s). This is a pain if the item
was completed a few days ago since I will then have to go in and manually
reset the item's Finish date to reflect the actual finish date.

----------------

These things are minor but I thought they might be worth bringing up. I
continue to use Shadow more than any other app on my Palm. It truly makes my
job, and my life easier to manage!

Thanks for all the hard work!!!

-mike

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:38pm
Subject: Re: Customizing a ShadowPlan list and BUG REPORT

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Michael Bryan wrote:

> have whatever attributes I choose. I can then change single list items to
> specific types, each tied to a fixed set of attributes (ie. Checklist, Note
> or Tasklist). I agree that this takes care of most situations but I continue
> to run into the following scenario where I'd really like to be able to
> configure a list as follows:

	I've thought about having multiple Custom before, but I'm more
likely to have one custom for the list, and then allow each item to have
its own custom setup (defaulting to the lists custom).

> etc and they all have progress bars, none of them are updated. The
> workarounds I've found are to either check things off only in ShadowPlan, or
> if I forget to do that I then have to go into Shadow and uncheck/re-check
> each item to update the parent's progress bar(s). This is a pain if the item
> was completed a few days ago since I will then have to go in and manually
> reset the item's Finish date to reflect the actual finish date.

	Hmm. I'll take a look. Thats annoying :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Nick Martin  <TEWoerner@m...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 9:49pm
Subject: Re: Automatic "next action" todo link

Something new?  What does "GTD" stand for?

Tim 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Patricia Emerick <hisimage8@y...> wrote:
> Jeff, 
> 
> This may have already been discussed -- maybe I just
> didn't use the right search words . . . :)
> 
> Since I've been using GtD methods I've found that my
> lists consist of parents (which are any projects with
> more than one step involved) and children (which are
> the actual physical actions needed to get the project
> done). The children are the ones that get sent to the
> todo list.  What I wish for is the ability to list
> these children in order and then have them sent (one
> at a time) to the todo list as the one above them is
> checked off.  Has this been discussed before?  If so,
> could you point me in the right direction?  If not, is
> this possible (or useful) for sometime in the future? 
>  
> 
> I know that all work is going towards the desktop --
> just thought of this and wanted to ask . . .
> 
> Patricia
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! 
Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

From: Michael Herman  <michael@t...>
Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 10:04pm
Subject: RE: Re: Automatic "next action" todo link

Getting Things Done.

Check out http://www.davidco.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Martin [mailto:TEWoerner@m...] 
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 4:49 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Automatic "next action" todo link

Something new?  What does "GTD" stand for?

Tim 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Patricia Emerick <hisimage8@y...> wrote:
> Jeff, 
> 
> This may have already been discussed -- maybe I just
> didn't use the right search words . . . :)
> 
> Since I've been using GtD methods I've found that my
> lists consist of parents (which are any projects with
> more than one step involved) and children (which are
> the actual physical actions needed to get the project
> done). The children are the ones that get sent to the
> todo list.  What I wish for is the ability to list
> these children in order and then have them sent (one
> at a time) to the todo list as the one above them is
> checked off.  Has this been discussed before?  If so,
> could you point me in the right direction?  If not, is
> this possible (or useful) for sometime in the future? 
>  
> 
> I know that all work is going towards the desktop --
> just thought of this and wanted to ask . . .
> 
> Patricia
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! 
Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 2:29pm
Subject: Re: Getting things into Shadow...

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:

Hello Keith,

I have just started using GThD with the same combo...
 
> In DateBk4 I have views setup to show todo information for various 
> contexts. For example if I chose the Work Desk view, Datebk4 will 
> display the @phone, @workpc, and @desk categories. This gives me a 
> nice list of things I can do for each place I work during the day. 

Ohh, this is a good idea. I had not thought of this way of doing 
the "context" for GThD. 

I am using a Shadow file In-Box. Using McFling, I can be there in 
just one swipe so it is pretty easy.

> So, request number 1:
> 
> - It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the todo from 
the 
> todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This would give 
> me a clean inbox each time I process this information as well as 
> shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".

This can already happen by:
  => grab a todo by using Shadow new from...
  => go to linkmanager and use todo link drop down
  => select "delete link entirely" and
  => the todo will be in Shadow and gone from DateBk

It is a bit messy, thougth....

> - Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 
> 
Yep, that would be excellent! If the whole category moved into a 
Shadow file, this would make the In-Box idea very slick.

Thanks for the ideas, Keith, and thanks, Jeff, for thinking about 
them.

Bruce

From: Learned  <learned@v...>
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 8:28pm
Subject: Keyboard Questions

Actually this is more of a suggestion. I just
acquired a keyboard, and one of the things I
noticed is that if I have a lot of plans, there
is no easy way to move between them using the
keyboard. It would be nice if I could start typiung
the name of the plan and have it scroll to that 
point.

Second, when inside a plan, I have the same problem.
What would be the possibility of honering something like
alt-letter to scroll you within the current level to 
entries beginning with that letter?

Finally (I'll shut up soon, I promise), when linking,
I can do everything from the keyboard except select 
the actual link. Is it possible to actually be
selecting the topmost link as the lookup characters
are entered?

Just suggestions at this point Jeff, let me know what 
you think.

From: Frank Crowe  <fcrowe@i...>
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard Questions

You need to get LapTopHack.  Paul Nevai is making improvements almost daily.
To get the full benefit, you also need pEdit.

You may want to join the peditors egroup at yahoogroups  and follow the
discussions for a while. If you are going to use a keyboard. LTH is a must.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Learned" <learned@v...>
To: "Shadow Discussion Group" <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 3:28 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Keyboard Questions


> Actually this is more of a suggestion. I just
> acquired a keyboard, and one of the things I
> noticed is that if I have a lot of plans, there
> is no easy way to move between them using the
> keyboard. It would be nice if I could start typiung
> the name of the plan and have it scroll to that
> point.
>
> Second, when inside a plan, I have the same problem.
> What would be the possibility of honering something like
> alt-letter to scroll you within the current level to
> entries beginning with that letter?
>
> Finally (I'll shut up soon, I promise), when linking,
> I can do everything from the keyboard except select
> the actual link. Is it possible to actually be
> selecting the topmost link as the lookup characters
> are entered?
>
> Just suggestions at this point Jeff, let me know what
> you think.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

From: aschell2000@h...
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:14pm
Subject: Re: Title word wrap suppression + request

you could leave it the way it is as default, but have an additional 
option to limit wrap to x number of lines.  I don't think this would 
have too much impact on existing behavior.  Anyone else want this?  
I'd like this because some of my outlines are indented leaving only a 
bit of room for text, then they take up 5 or six lines, one for 
almost each word.  If I could limit it for instance to 3 lines, it 
would really limit the amount of scrolling around I have to do.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:
> 
> > keep it as long as possible rather than just complete words.  
> > 
> > As well, one of the related features I liked when I was using 
> > progect, was that the title wrap was configurable.  I generally 
like 
> > to use title word wrap, but I'd like to be able to set a max of 2 
> > lines or 3 lines etc. rather than have some items wrap to 6 lines 
> > etc.  This could probably be just a global setting, unless some 
want 
> > it list specific.
> 
> 	Interesting. Hmm.
> 
> 	So, do I change existing behaviour.. hmm.... always a tough 
choice
> :/
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: lists@t...
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 10:49pm
Subject: Re: Getting things into Shadow...

I didn't realize the link manager worked that way...very 
slick....though a few extra taps...but better than jumping to the 
todo list to manually delete items.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., bstryd@a... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> 
> Hello Keith,
> 
> I have just started using GThD with the same combo...
>  
> > In DateBk4 I have views setup to show todo information for 
various 
> > contexts. For example if I chose the Work Desk view, Datebk4 will 
> > display the @phone, @workpc, and @desk categories. This gives me 
a 
> > nice list of things I can do for each place I work during the 
day. 
> 
> Ohh, this is a good idea. I had not thought of this way of doing 
> the "context" for GThD. 
> 
> I am using a Shadow file In-Box. Using McFling, I can be there in 
> just one swipe so it is pretty easy.
> 
> > So, request number 1:
> > 
> > - It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the todo from 
> the 
> > todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This would 
give 
> > me a clean inbox each time I process this information as well as 
> > shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".
> 
> This can already happen by:
>   => grab a todo by using Shadow new from...
>   => go to linkmanager and use todo link drop down
>   => select "delete link entirely" and
>   => the todo will be in Shadow and gone from DateBk
> 
> It is a bit messy, thougth....
> 
> > - Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 
> > 
> Yep, that would be excellent! If the whole category moved into a 
> Shadow file, this would make the In-Box idea very slick.
> 
> Thanks for the ideas, Keith, and thanks, Jeff, for thinking about 
> them.
> 
> Bruce

From: lists@t...
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Getting things into Shadow...

So I just figured something else out...the sort order is based on 
category.

So, I just renamed my Inbox to have a space in front of it. This way 
it will appear before the @stuff...and all the items from the inbox 
will display first in the new from dialog.

As I will then delete the todo, it will never get too crowded.

Seems like a nice work around for now...but I'd still like to see the 
ability to have the item auto-delete, and also the ability to filter 
by category.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> I didn't realize the link manager worked that way...very 
> slick....though a few extra taps...but better than jumping to the 
> todo list to manually delete items.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., bstryd@a... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > 
> > Hello Keith,
> > 
> > I have just started using GThD with the same combo...
> >  
> > > In DateBk4 I have views setup to show todo information for 
> various 
> > > contexts. For example if I chose the Work Desk view, Datebk4 
will 
> > > display the @phone, @workpc, and @desk categories. This gives 
me 
> a 
> > > nice list of things I can do for each place I work during the 
> day. 
> > 
> > Ohh, this is a good idea. I had not thought of this way of doing 
> > the "context" for GThD. 
> > 
> > I am using a Shadow file In-Box. Using McFling, I can be there in 
> > just one swipe so it is pretty easy.
> > 
> > > So, request number 1:
> > > 
> > > - It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the todo 
from 
> > the 
> > > todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This would 
> give 
> > > me a clean inbox each time I process this information as well 
as 
> > > shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".
> > 
> > This can already happen by:
> >   => grab a todo by using Shadow new from...
> >   => go to linkmanager and use todo link drop down
> >   => select "delete link entirely" and
> >   => the todo will be in Shadow and gone from DateBk
> > 
> > It is a bit messy, thougth....
> > 
> > > - Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 
> > > 
> > Yep, that would be excellent! If the whole category moved into a 
> > Shadow file, this would make the In-Box idea very slick.
> > 
> > Thanks for the ideas, Keith, and thanks, Jeff, for thinking about 
> > them.
> > 
> > Bruce

From: krwurst@y...
Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 11:23pm
Subject: Brainforest and ShadowPlan

I am a regestered user of Brainforest Pro and just downloaded 
ShadowPlan today.  I already prefer ShadowPlans Palm application over 
Brainforest's.  However, I use Brainforest's Desktop application 
daily.  Is there a way for me to possibly integrate Brainforest 
Desktop with ShadowPlan's Palm application until ShadowPlan has a 
Desktop application?

From: ext555@p...
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 0:55pm
Subject: Re: Getting things into Shadow... (what about the datebook?)

It's a good work-around!  thanks. 
At first it didn't work that way for me, I checked my to-do settings 
and changed it to sort by category, due date and then it worked. 

It appears shadow import "new from" follows the sort order that's set 
in the default to-do app. 

Jeff, what's the sort order for import from datebook?
it might be my imagination but I thought I saw a different order in 
the list when I changed my datebook from dbk4 to Action Names (I do 
have both, but usually only load Dbk4)

I'm guessing the shadow import is from the default datebook db, and 
it's the changes that dbk4 might be making when it loads the info 
that is causing the difference? 

Paul 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> So I just figured something else out...the sort order is based on 
> category.
> 
> So, I just renamed my Inbox to have a space in front of it. This 
way 
> it will appear before the @stuff...and all the items from the inbox 
> will display first in the new from dialog.
> 
> As I will then delete the todo, it will never get too crowded.
> 
> Seems like a nice work around for now...but I'd still like to see 
the 
> ability to have the item auto-delete, and also the ability to 
filter 
> by category.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > I didn't realize the link manager worked that way...very 
> > slick....though a few extra taps...but better than jumping to the 
> > todo list to manually delete items.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., bstryd@a... wrote:
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > > 
> > > Hello Keith,
> > > 
> > > I have just started using GThD with the same combo...
> > >  
> > > > In DateBk4 I have views setup to show todo information for 
> > various 
> > > > contexts. For example if I chose the Work Desk view, Datebk4 
> will 
> > > > display the @phone, @workpc, and @desk categories. This gives 
> me 
> > a 
> > > > nice list of things I can do for each place I work during the 
> > day. 
> > > 
> > > Ohh, this is a good idea. I had not thought of this way of 
doing 
> > > the "context" for GThD. 
> > > 
> > > I am using a Shadow file In-Box. Using McFling, I can be there 
in 
> > > just one swipe so it is pretty easy.
> > > 
> > > > So, request number 1:
> > > > 
> > > > - It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the todo 
> from 
> > > the 
> > > > todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This 
would 
> > give 
> > > > me a clean inbox each time I process this information as well 
> as 
> > > > shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".
> > > 
> > > This can already happen by:
> > >   => grab a todo by using Shadow new from...
> > >   => go to linkmanager and use todo link drop down
> > >   => select "delete link entirely" and
> > >   => the todo will be in Shadow and gone from DateBk
> > > 
> > > It is a bit messy, thougth....
> > > 
> > > > - Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 
> > > > 
> > > Yep, that would be excellent! If the whole category moved into 
a 
> > > Shadow file, this would make the In-Box idea very slick.
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the ideas, Keith, and thanks, Jeff, for thinking 
about 
> > > them.
> > > 
> > > Bruce

From: lists@t...
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 1:49pm
Subject: Re: Getting things into Shadow... (what about the datebook?)

I thought Shadow might work that way, but was too lazy to check it by 
altering my todo settings <LOL>...thanks for the further research.




--- In shadow-discuss@y..., ext555@p... wrote:
> It's a good work-around!  thanks. 
> At first it didn't work that way for me, I checked my to-do 
settings 
> and changed it to sort by category, due date and then it worked. 
> 
> It appears shadow import "new from" follows the sort order that's 
set 
> in the default to-do app. 
> 
> Jeff, what's the sort order for import from datebook?
> it might be my imagination but I thought I saw a different order in 
> the list when I changed my datebook from dbk4 to Action Names (I do 
> have both, but usually only load Dbk4)
> 
> I'm guessing the shadow import is from the default datebook db, and 
> it's the changes that dbk4 might be making when it loads the info 
> that is causing the difference? 
> 
> Paul 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > So I just figured something else out...the sort order is based on 
> > category.
> > 
> > So, I just renamed my Inbox to have a space in front of it. This 
> way 
> > it will appear before the @stuff...and all the items from the 
inbox 
> > will display first in the new from dialog.
> > 
> > As I will then delete the todo, it will never get too crowded.
> > 
> > Seems like a nice work around for now...but I'd still like to see 
> the 
> > ability to have the item auto-delete, and also the ability to 
> filter 
> > by category.
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > > I didn't realize the link manager worked that way...very 
> > > slick....though a few extra taps...but better than jumping to 
the 
> > > todo list to manually delete items.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., bstryd@a... wrote:
> > > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Hello Keith,
> > > > 
> > > > I have just started using GThD with the same combo...
> > > >  
> > > > > In DateBk4 I have views setup to show todo information for 
> > > various 
> > > > > contexts. For example if I chose the Work Desk view, 
Datebk4 
> > will 
> > > > > display the @phone, @workpc, and @desk categories. This 
gives 
> > me 
> > > a 
> > > > > nice list of things I can do for each place I work during 
the 
> > > day. 
> > > > 
> > > > Ohh, this is a good idea. I had not thought of this way of 
> doing 
> > > > the "context" for GThD. 
> > > > 
> > > > I am using a Shadow file In-Box. Using McFling, I can be 
there 
> in 
> > > > just one swipe so it is pretty easy.
> > > > 
> > > > > So, request number 1:
> > > > > 
> > > > > - It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the 
todo 
> > from 
> > > > the 
> > > > > todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This 
> would 
> > > give 
> > > > > me a clean inbox each time I process this information as 
well 
> > as 
> > > > > shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".
> > > > 
> > > > This can already happen by:
> > > >   => grab a todo by using Shadow new from...
> > > >   => go to linkmanager and use todo link drop down
> > > >   => select "delete link entirely" and
> > > >   => the todo will be in Shadow and gone from DateBk
> > > > 
> > > > It is a bit messy, thougth....
> > > > 
> > > > > - Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 
> > > > > 
> > > > Yep, that would be excellent! If the whole category moved 
into 
> a 
> > > > Shadow file, this would make the In-Box idea very slick.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for the ideas, Keith, and thanks, Jeff, for thinking 
> about 
> > > > them.
> > > > 
> > > > Bruce

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 5:27pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard Questions

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Learned wrote:

> Actually this is more of a suggestion. I just
> acquired a keyboard, and one of the things I
> noticed is that if I have a lot of plans, there
> is no easy way to move between them using the
> keyboard. It would be nice if I could start typiung
> the name of the plan and have it scroll to that 
> point.
> 
> Second, when inside a plan, I have the same problem.
> What would be the possibility of honering something like
> alt-letter to scroll you within the current level to 
> entries beginning with that letter?

	Make sure you're using 1.5.14 or later; it has more keyboard
control than previous versions.

> Finally (I'll shut up soon, I promise), when linking,
> I can do everything from the keyboard except select 
> the actual link. Is it possible to actually be
> selecting the topmost link as the lookup characters
> are entered?

	Maybe. Remind me after the desktop settles a bit (why don't I add
it to my todo? I'm cleaning it up.. 500 items right now ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 5:29pm
Subject: Re: Brainforest and ShadowPlan

On Fri, 17 Aug 2001 krwurst@y... wrote:

> I am a regestered user of Brainforest Pro and just downloaded 
> ShadowPlan today.  I already prefer ShadowPlans Palm application over 
> Brainforest's.  However, I use Brainforest's Desktop application 
> daily.  Is there a way for me to possibly integrate Brainforest 
> Desktop with ShadowPlan's Palm application until ShadowPlan has a 
> Desktop application?

	No; BF's desktop only works with their desktop format (which is
reasonable :), and doesn't do sync (which is how Shadow works). My desktop
application ought be coming out soonish.. (month or so hopefully).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Aug 18, 2001 5:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: Getting things into Shadow... (what about the datebook?)

On Sat, 18 Aug 2001 ext555@p... wrote:

> It appears shadow import "new from" follows the sort order that's set 
> in the default to-do app. 

	Yep.

> Jeff, what's the sort order for import from datebook?
> it might be my imagination but I thought I saw a different order in 
> the list when I changed my datebook from dbk4 to Action Names (I do 
> have both, but usually only load Dbk4)

	In the order sorted in the other database. AN and DB4 sort in
different ways, so you're probably right.

> I'm guessing the shadow import is from the default datebook db, and 
> it's the changes that dbk4 might be making when it loads the info 
> that is causing the difference? 

	Yep :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Sun Aug 19, 2001 5:46am
Subject: Re: Brainforest and ShadowPlan

On 2001-08-18 at 13:29, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> > daily.  Is there a way for me to possibly integrate Brainforest 
> > Desktop with ShadowPlan's Palm application until ShadowPlan has a 
> > Desktop application?

you can write outlines on the desktop, sync the outline to the Palm, do an
export and import it into Shadow (no dates, etc)

                jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/

From: talanzimmerman@h...
Date: Sun Aug 19, 2001 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Keyboard Questions

I'd like to see even more support for keyboards.  I recently looked 
at Bonsai and saw it has great keyboard support (of course that and 
the desktop app are about all it's got going for it).  Here is a list 
of a few things I'd love to see letter shortcuts for.

Expand/collapse single item
Details
Note
Link
Recent
Find
Done
Preferences

Open
Import from todo/memo
Export to memo/doc

  Of course not being a Palm programmer I don't know how difficult it 
is to add letter shortcuts.  Is there anyone else out there 
interested in this?  Thanks and keep up the great job Jeff.

Todd

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Aug 19, 2001 6:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Keyboard Questions

On Sun, 19 Aug 2001 talanzimmerman@h... wrote:

> I'd like to see even more support for keyboards.  I recently looked 
> at Bonsai and saw it has great keyboard support (of course that and 
> the desktop app are about all it's got going for it).  Here is a list 
> of a few things I'd love to see letter shortcuts for.
> 
> Expand/collapse single item

	Already in.

> Details

	There used to be a shortcut for this, hmm. Do some keyboards have
a Details button?

> Note

	/A does this.

> Link

	/O does this.

> Recent

	Hmm. A good idea. Any key suggestions? :)

> Find

	Keyboards should have a find key already.

> Done

	I think this is already on the keyboard.

> Preferences

	Try laptophack; I don't think infrequent options need a keyboard
equivalent.. or do you need to change prefs a lot?

> Open

	Already a key on the keyboard?

> Import from todo/memo
> Export to memo/doc

	Do these need keys? Total keyboard control hu? I really need to
get a keyboard again :P

>   Of course not being a Palm programmer I don't know how difficult it 
> is to add letter shortcuts.  Is there anyone else out there 
> interested in this?  Thanks and keep up the great job Jeff.

	Shortcuts are easy. Its handling keyboard-only things which are a
pain due to the various keyboard drivers out there..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:59am
Subject: Re: Todo link box (Getting things into Shadow)

I think I discovered something else today...but need some 
confirmation from Jeff here.

If I use the New From dialog to bring in a task from the todolist, 
with a link back. And then Un-t (uncheck ;-), the todo link box, it 
appears to sever kill the link as well as the original todo.

Is this how the program is supposed to operate, and will operate in 
the future?

If so, great, just saved another step in this process!



> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > > > I didn't realize the link manager worked that way...very 
> > > > slick....though a few extra taps...but better than jumping to 
> the 
> > > > todo list to manually delete items.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., bstryd@a... wrote:
> > > > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., lists@t... wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hello Keith,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have just started using GThD with the same combo...
> > > > >  
> > > > > > In DateBk4 I have views setup to show todo information 
for 
> > > > various 
> > > > > > contexts. For example if I chose the Work Desk view, 
> Datebk4 
> > > will 
> > > > > > display the @phone, @workpc, and @desk categories. This 
> gives 
> > > me 
> > > > a 
> > > > > > nice list of things I can do for each place I work during 
> the 
> > > > day. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ohh, this is a good idea. I had not thought of this way of 
> > doing 
> > > > > the "context" for GThD. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am using a Shadow file In-Box. Using McFling, I can be 
> there 
> > in 
> > > > > just one swipe so it is pretty easy.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > So, request number 1:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > - It would be helpful to have an option of deleting the 
> todo 
> > > from 
> > > > > the 
> > > > > > todo database once it has been imported/new fromed. This 
> > would 
> > > > give 
> > > > > > me a clean inbox each time I process this information as 
> well 
> > > as 
> > > > > > shrink the list a wee bit as I do more "New Froms".
> > > > > 
> > > > > This can already happen by:
> > > > >   => grab a todo by using Shadow new from...
> > > > >   => go to linkmanager and use todo link drop down
> > > > >   => select "delete link entirely" and
> > > > >   => the todo will be in Shadow and gone from DateBk
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is a bit messy, thougth....
> > > > > 
> > > > > > - Be able to import just a certain category into Shadow. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > Yep, that would be excellent! If the whole category moved 
> into 
> > a 
> > > > > Shadow file, this would make the In-Box idea very slick.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks for the ideas, Keith, and thanks, Jeff, for thinking 
> > about 
> > > > > them.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bruce

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2001 4:17am
Subject: Re: Re: Todo link box (Getting things into Shadow)

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001, Griff wrote:

> I think I discovered something else today...but need some 
> confirmation from Jeff here.
> 
> If I use the New From dialog to bring in a task from the todolist, 
> with a link back. And then Un-t (uncheck ;-), the todo link box, it 
> appears to sever kill the link as well as the original todo.
> 
> Is this how the program is supposed to operate, and will operate in 
> the future?
> 
> If so, great, just saved another step in this process!

	Yep; the [T] box acts to add a new todo, or remove a todo, in its
entirety. The idea is to easily maintain your todo list with one tap.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: FunFactor@g...
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2001 9:22am
Subject: Additional wish "New from..."

Having the possibility to chose the categorie will help much.
(Btw - a filter only showing dated todos would be nice too ;-) )

What I'd like too is to have the possibility to do a mutiple select.
When I work I often start with items in the todo list. As this
happens often during a meeting, I get several todos concernig one 
project. 
When I'm arranging things later I have to import them in the same
list one by one. Live would be much easier if I could do this in one 
step.

Thanks.

Stefan

From: FunFactor@g...
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2001 10:04am
Subject: 'Recent file list'

Another message to keep subjects separated.

In message 1807 Jeff wrote:
> What do you mean? I guess you mean as a list gets opened remove it
> from the recent files, then put it at the bottom? I considered
> this, but thought it might be better to leave them in the same
> order, since you coudl easily get used to the order (if you stick 
> to 10 files most of the time), and thus could more quickly jump
> around.
> If it kept reordering, you'd have to read it to find them...

When a new file is inserted into the 'Recent file' list it gets above 
the *Clear history item. The entries '*Clear history' and '*New list' 
remain at the bottom of the list. But the rest of the list is moved 
one item up because of the new item.
I think it'd be better if the new item is inserted at the top. So the 
list not only remains in the same order but the items remain at the 
same position too. 
So you get not only used to the order but to the position as well ;-)


What do you think?

Best regards,
Stefan

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2001 0:13pm
Subject: Re: 'Recent file list'

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 FunFactor@g... wrote:

> When a new file is inserted into the 'Recent file' list it gets above 
> the *Clear history item. The entries '*Clear history' and '*New list' 
> remain at the bottom of the list. But the rest of the list is moved 
> one item up because of the new item.
> I think it'd be better if the new item is inserted at the top. So the 
> list not only remains in the same order but the items remain at the 
> same position too. 
> So you get not only used to the order but to the position as well ;-)

	Possible; its drawn by age going up, sort of. ITs possible to
reverse it, perhaps. Hmm. I think the recent-files thing could use some
other improvements, too, like the "lock" which stops new items from going
into it at all, etc..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: alwaysenuf@y...
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2001 2:04pm
Subject: RE: File Link request: *New List

Jeff,

First, _!Thank you!_ for your enthusiastic, and seemingly endless 
commitment to Shadow Users. I've been using Shadow for about 3 
months, and feel i'm only just beginning to scratch the surface of 
Shadow's capabilities. I've begun to familiarize myself with the File 
Link function. The Versatility this provides in absolutely AMAZING!!!

Is it possible to create a *New List option in the File Link pulldown 
menu.  I find that in processing information(GTD style), I want to 
link from a title in a table of contents type list to a "project 
specific" list that I've not yet created. I would really like to be 
able to capture new "Projects" on the fly then link them to their own 
list for further development/brainstorming, later. 

Thanks again!
Mary Schmidbauer

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Aug 20, 2001 3:46pm
Subject: Re: RE: File Link request: *New List

On Mon, 20 Aug 2001 alwaysenuf@y... wrote:

> First, _!Thank you!_ for your enthusiastic, and seemingly endless 
> commitment to Shadow Users. I've been using Shadow for about 3 

	Its rough, but I have a workaholic mental problem :P

> Is it possible to create a *New List option in the File Link pulldown 
> menu.  I find that in processing information(GTD style), I want to 
> link from a title in a table of contents type list to a "project 
> specific" list that I've not yet created. I would really like to be 
> able to capture new "Projects" on the fly then link them to their own 
> list for further development/brainstorming, later. 

	Hmm. Its certainly possible. Seconders?

	You can already pull up the Recent List thing (see under the [V]
menu in 1.5.14 or so, for instance) and it can create new lists..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: doug809@h...
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 3:33am
Subject: Setting parent's progress independently from its children?

Hi all,

Quick question ... in the Tasklist view, does anyone know of a way to 
set the progress bar of a parent item independently from the progress 
bars of its children?

e.g. Sometimes I would just like to set the progress bar of the 
parent item by itself, instead of having it be calculated from the 
the children items.

I tried setting the view of the children items to "note" ... which 
gets rid of the progress bar, but still doesn't allow the parent %-
age to be set independently.

Thanks in advance!
Doug

P.S. Jeff, thanks for the 1.5.14 version to "tide us over" 'til 1.6 
is ready! I definitely found it useful, especially the following ...

NEW: Todo category may be set for todo links right in the Link 
Manager!

NEW: Global pref to "return to Shadow" after a link goto. 

NEW: Preferences brought together into a more cohesive system.

From: FunFactor@g...
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 8:12am
Subject: Re: Setting parent's progress independently from its children?

Hi Doug!

As far as I know it's not possible to set them independantly because 
the progress of a parent IS calculated from the progress of the 
children (as it should be).

If it would be diffrent what should happen if you have set the 
progress of a parent to 60% and you get a child completed - what 
should happen then? Is then new value 60% plus (child completed - 
child before comletion) / number of childs? Anyway you will not get 
anything sensfull.

It seems to be a nice idea to set the progress of a parent but it
will 
not work without braking it down to the children so that the 
calculation remains correct.

And if you can set the progress bar of the parent up - there should 
have been a progress in at least one of the children - or it's a 
miracle ;-) 


Changing the item style to 'note' only changes the appearance not the 
content of the item (otherwise you'd loose information and you could 
not change the style back for example).

Best regards,

Stefan

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:22pm
Subject: Palmtop-Pro Essentials

Palmtop-Pro has put together a list of "Approved Essentials". There 
are only 15 apps listed, and guess what app is number 3?

See what they have to say about Shadow here:

http://www.palmtop-pro.com/tips/tips0108.htm#engl 

Congatulations Jeff. Now if PalmGear would just get it right.

Scott

From: ianf@e...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 0:11am
Subject: Bad Load when coming from Datebk4

Hi,

When I try to use the "Launch App" feature of DB4 
to start Shadow on a specific record, I get a "Bad Load!"
dialogue window that says "The list could not be loaded!"

Is this a feature that should be working? (Sorry, didn't
find any explicit mention of this in the manual...)

I'm running Shadow 1.5.14 on an m505 PalmOS4.0.0, Japanese OS.

Thanks,

        - Ian.

From: ianf@e...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 0:18am
Subject: History list is good, how about...?

Hi,

I really like the history list of shadow files in the
new version. Excellent addition. It feels very similar to 
using the "Go" menu in Netscape, which leads me to these 
browser-like requests:

  O Can we have a permanent menu button at the top of the screen,
    rather than accessing the list "v" button? (The pop-up when you
    press the ToDo button is a nice touch, though!)
    
  O How about a separate "forward" and "back" button for
    moving through the history list?

  O Also, any chance of also having a separate
    "bookmarks" menu, where users could insert their
     nine or ten (currently) most-used lists for
    quick navigation?
    
Thanks much,

        - Ian.

PS. I didn't follow the progress in Shadow for three or four months,
    and when I grabbed the latest version I was *very* pleasantly 
    surprised with the number and quality of changes. Thanks!

[sorry if this post appears twice... I sent email to shadow-discuss
on Sun that didn't show up]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:09am
Subject: Re: Bad Load when coming from Datebk4

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@e... wrote:

> When I try to use the "Launch App" feature of DB4 
> to start Shadow on a specific record, I get a "Bad Load!"
> dialogue window that says "The list could not be loaded!"

	I have forgotten what DB4's launch-app does, but it does something
"odd" that an app has to support, and its (if I recall right) not
appropriate an operation for Shadow. (ie: Its to create a new record, and
how would you know which file to put a new record in? I think that was it.
Iv'e forgotten). Known issue, and as far as I recall, a non-issue?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:15am
Subject: Re: History list is good, how about...?

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@e... wrote:

>   O Can we have a permanent menu button at the top of the screen,
>     rather than accessing the list "v" button? (The pop-up when you
>     press the ToDo button is a nice touch, though!)

	To what end?

	The recent-files can be brought up by pushing the mapped hardkey
as you know, or through the Go pulldown menu, or from the [V] popmenu.
Adding another button, to save one tap for a file level operation, doesn't
seem like a good use of screen space? Though if anyone has a
recommendation for a key, I can add a shortcut to the pulldown menu..

>   O How about a separate "forward" and "back" button for
>     moving through the history list?

	I've thought about this; but I'd want to do it in terms of the
"recent files" listing (since that file has a list of files in it already,
I wouldn't want to have another file to store the list of shadow files
you've been through). So, I'd have to change the recent-files listing to
allow multiple files in it (since you can go file A, then B, then A again,
and hitting Back would have to go in that reverse order), and also make
the recent-list show the files in order of access (right now it just keeps
them in the same order, where possible, so that you can jump around using
familiarity with the list order to your speed advantage).

	So browser-liek buttons are a good idea, but I don't like the idea
of storing another "filer accesses list", or changing recent-files :/

	Tough choice :/

>   O Also, any chance of also having a separate
>     "bookmarks" menu, where users could insert their
>      nine or ten (currently) most-used lists for
>     quick navigation?

	Recent files?

	I've thought about making the recent-files list up to 15 items
(maybe), and/or adding a "lock" option, so that Shadow will stop adding
items.. thus you could clear the list, then go to your top lists, then
"lock": the recent list, and not worry any more..

> PS. I didn't follow the progress in Shadow for three or four months,
>     and when I grabbed the latest version I was *very* pleasantly 
>     surprised with the number and quality of changes. Thanks!

	hehe :) Its been slow, too, since I've been mostly working on the
desktop :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kevinprice@u...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:50am
Subject: Recent/Favorite Feature Design

"...I've thought about making the recent-files list up to 15 items (maybe), and/or adding a "lock" option, so that Shadow will stop adding items.. thus you could clear the list, then go to your top lists, then "lock": the recent list, and not worry any more." - Jeff


Both SilverScreen and McPhling have Recent/Favorite lists that are customizable to preference.  If you decide to look into this, these two apps might be worth checking out.

They both allow the user to create lists of a user-defined number of items that can be combinations of Recent/Favorites (5/5, 7/3, 4/6, etc) or exclusively all recent or favorite files.

Kevin 

SilverScreen
http://www.pocketsensei.com

McPhling
http://MikeMcCollister.com/palm/

From: ianf@f...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 2:41am
Subject: Re: Bad Load when coming from Datebk4

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@e... wrote:
> 
> > When I try to use the "Launch App" feature of DB4 
> > to start Shadow on a specific record, I get a "Bad Load!"
> > dialogue window that says "The list could not be loaded!"
> 
> 	I have forgotten what DB4's launch-app does, but it does something
> "odd" that an app has to support, and its (if I recall right) not
> appropriate an operation for Shadow. (ie: Its to create a new
record, and
> how would you know which file to put a new record in? I think that
was it.
> Iv'e forgotten). Known issue, and as far as I recall, a non-issue?

OK, will not use for the moment. 

Would be really nice in some future
release to be able to use this DB4 feature 
to go to an existing linked record in shadow.

Thanks,

	- Ian.

From: ianf@f...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 3:07am
Subject: Re: Recent/Favorite Feature Design

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., kevinprice@u... wrote:
> "...I've thought about making the recent-files list up to 15 items
(maybe), and/or adding a "lock" option, so that Shadow will stop
adding items.. thus you could clear the list, then go to your top
lists, then "lock": the recent list, and not worry any more." - Jeff
> 
> 
> Both SilverScreen and McPhling have Recent/Favorite lists that are
customizable to preference.  If you decide to look into this, these
two apps might be worth checking out.
> 
> They both allow the user to create lists of a user-defined number of
items that can be combinations of Recent/Favorites (5/5, 7/3, 4/6,
etc) or exclusively all recent or favorite files.

Yeah, this could be a good way to produce both a bookmarking
ability (always know where some files are in the list), and
a backwards and forwards option. I'd be very happy to see this :)

As for an extra button to bring this list up... I guess
I just have small file names that leave lots of space at
the top of my screen...

	- Ian.

From: Michael Bryan  <moid@e...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 4:17am
Subject: RE: Re: Bad Load when coming from Datebk4

-> Would be really nice in some future
-> release to be able to use this DB4 feature
-> to go to an existing linked record in shadow.
->
-> Thanks,
->
-> 	- Ian.


Ian,

Check out a app/hack called Linker. http://www.digitalglyph.com/linker.html

Linker lets you link from a text string (ie. in a Datebk4 appointment, float
or Todo, etc) to:
	1) a record in most any other app (like a ShadowPlan list element)
	2) a string inside of any record in most any other app (a string in an SP
note)
	3) an application (like ShadowPlan)

I used ShadowPlan as an example here but you can use it to link any app with
any other app as long as you're working with text to create the link with.
The link can then point to just about anything as long as it's a record, a
text string or an app. It works great and is very flexible.

I use it all the time link from Datebk4 appointments, floats and Todo's to a
ShadowPlan list, an element within a ShadowPlan list or to a string in a
note that is attached to a ShadowPlan list element.

It will also optionally store 'back' links which can be used to jump back to
where you were when you activated the link. For example, if you click on a
link that's in a Datebk4 floating event (or appt or Todo, etc) that links to
a ShadowPlan list element, you can use the 'back' link feature of Linker to
jump back to the Datebk4 floating event when you're done with the ShadowPlan
list.

I hope this helps. I am in not connected to Linker or DigitalGlyph in any
way. I am only reporting my experience using it with Shadow and Datebk4 to
accomplish what I believe you described in your post.

-mike

From: ianf@f...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 8:09am
Subject: Kbd control, and Set Program

Hi,

When using the keyboard up arrow and down arrow to move the
selection up and down the screen, if you have the unchecked
items filter selected, the selection will sometimes
"disappear" into a checked item that's not visible. Should
just move up and down the visible items on the
screen. (Actually I'm not using a kbd for this, but fitaly
stamp.... shouldn't make a difference, though?)


Couldn't get the Set Program option to work very
well... Didn't work at all with CryptoPad, and with the
Startnames program that comes with PopupNames, Popupnames
launches, but doesn't go to the right address (db4 also
doesn't get PUN to start at the right adress, so maybe the
problem is with Startnames).  Also, the program that is set
with Set Program seems to be forgotten when you exit Shadow
and restart (would be useful if the list of apps
to select from could be sorted alphabetically).

Thanks,

	- Ian.

From: ianf@f...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 8:08am
Subject: Expanding links: Small problem and suggestion

Hi,

If you expand the links on an item that it as the
bottom of the screen, you can't scroll down to see the
links.

Could we have an option to expand and collapse links in the
link manager itself? This way, we could use the feature even
on lists where there is no link column in the display.

Again, for lists with no link column in the display
(but also useful in general) can tapping on the person icon
or the memo icon take you straight to the linked entry?

Thanks,

	- Ian.

From: ext555@p...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 10:56am
Subject: Re: Bad Load (launch app in dbk4)

this was designed to open a application that could have the current 
date passed to it.  I think daynotez was the initial idea for this 
feature and it does work great with daynotez. 

Since shadow doesn't focus on any certain date --I don't think it 
could ever work with Shadow.

Hope this helps 

Paul 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Michael Bryan" <moid@e...> wrote:
> -> Would be really nice in some future
> -> release to be able to use this DB4 feature
> -> to go to an existing linked record in shadow.
> ->
> -> Thanks,
> ->
> -> 	- Ian.
> 
> 
> Ian,
> 
> Check out a app/hack called Linker. 
http://www.digitalglyph.com/linker.html
> 
> Linker lets you link from a text string (ie. in a Datebk4 
appointment, float
> or Todo, etc) to:
> 	1) a record in most any other app (like a ShadowPlan list 
element)
> 	2) a string inside of any record in most any other app (a 
string in an SP
> note)
> 	3) an application (like ShadowPlan)
> 
> I used ShadowPlan as an example here but you can use it to link any 
app with
> any other app as long as you're working with text to create the 
link with.
> The link can then point to just about anything as long as it's a 
record, a
> text string or an app. It works great and is very flexible.
> 
> I use it all the time link from Datebk4 appointments, floats and 
Todo's to a
> ShadowPlan list, an element within a ShadowPlan list or to a string 
in a
> note that is attached to a ShadowPlan list element.
> 
> It will also optionally store 'back' links which can be used to 
jump back to
> where you were when you activated the link. For example, if you 
click on a
> link that's in a Datebk4 floating event (or appt or Todo, etc) that 
links to
> a ShadowPlan list element, you can use the 'back' link feature of 
Linker to
> jump back to the Datebk4 floating event when you're done with the 
ShadowPlan
> list.
> 
> I hope this helps. I am in not connected to Linker or DigitalGlyph 
in any
> way. I am only reporting my experience using it with Shadow and 
Datebk4 to
> accomplish what I believe you described in your post.
> 
> -mike

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 0:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bad Load when coming from Datebk4

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> OK, will not use for the moment. 
> 
> Would be really nice in some future
> release to be able to use this DB4 feature 
> to go to an existing linked record in shadow.

	I'm not sure what you mean (I'm not much of a DB4 user :P)  If you
mean you have a Shadow item, and link it to the datebook, and are in DB4
and want to return.. then its up to DB4 to understand the Shadow link and
how to get back into Shadow.. not up to me. (ie: The running program has
control).  There is a Hack called "Linker" which lets you do all sorts of
maniac things, though ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 0:40pm
Subject: Re: Expanding links: Small problem and suggestion

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> If you expand the links on an item that it as the
> bottom of the screen, you can't scroll down to see the
> links.

	I didn't believe you until I tried it myself. Holy cow! I'll fix
that soon-ish!

> Could we have an option to expand and collapse links in the
> link manager itself? This way, we could use the feature even
> on lists where there is no link column in the display.

	I'll see what I can do..

> Again, for lists with no link column in the display
> (but also useful in general) can tapping on the person icon
> or the memo icon take you straight to the linked entry?

	If you want to jump around to links, hwy not have a link arrow
column? Thats what its for.

	That said.. anyone else think having the person or memo icon on
expanded links should perform a goto? I didn't do this originally, since I
figured peopel might be tapping there for drag and drop, or double tapping
for details, or other normal item stuff..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 0:45pm
Subject: Re: Kbd control, and Set Program

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> When using the keyboard up arrow and down arrow to move the
> selection up and down the screen, if you have the unchecked
> items filter selected, the selection will sometimes
> "disappear" into a checked item that's not visible. Should
> just move up and down the visible items on the
> screen. (Actually I'm not using a kbd for this, but fitaly
> stamp.... shouldn't make a difference, though?)

	I'll take a look. I don't have a keyboard, so I miss things like
that sometimes ;)

> Couldn't get the Set Program option to work very
> well... Didn't work at all with CryptoPad, and with the
> Startnames program that comes with PopupNames, Popupnames
> launches, but doesn't go to the right address (db4 also
> doesn't get PUN to start at the right adress, so maybe the
> problem is with Startnames).  Also, the program that is set
> with Set Program seems to be forgotten when you exit Shadow

	The "goto" mechanism is mostly standard on the palm; if you can
Set Program an application, and do a goto, various thinsg could happen:

	1) It works; most apps should work.
	2) The screen goes clear for a sec, then Shadow returns. This
		means the other app just doesn't support it at all.
	3) The app goes to the wrong record. That usually means that app
		supports multiple files or file types and doesn't know
		which to go to. This means that app is broken or I need
		a special API to talk just to that app.
	4) The app crashes; usually a bug in the other app.

	So, with Action Names for instance. You can use it for todo and
memo gotos, but Address gotos don't always work. Problem on their side, or
at least a documentation problem -- they changed the way things work, so I
and others have ot guess at how they *do* work and tie into that
mechanism.

> and restart (would be useful if the list of apps
> to select from could be sorted alphabetically).

	I put that on my list of "frills"; nice tohave, but most people
only use Set Program twice (since its global, and should save).. so I
didn't want to spend a lot of effort on it, since I have more important
options to work on :)

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Expanding links: Small problem and suggestion

"That said.. anyone else think having the person or memo icon on
expanded links should perform a goto? I didn't do this originally, since I
figured peopel might be tapping there for drag and drop, or double tapping
for details, or other normal item stuff.."     jeff

Personally I like the current functionality. You can expand the list to
just see the numerous links, then you can click on the link arrow to GoTo
the link if necessary. So I would rather it was left as is.


                                                                                                                   
                    Jeff Mitchell                                                                                  
                    <support@s...        To:     shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com                                    
                    eton.org>            cc:                                                                       
                                         Subject:     Re: [shadow-discuss] Expanding links: Small problem and      
                    08/22/2001           suggestion                                                                
                    07:40 AM                                                                                       
                    Please                                                                                         
                    respond to                                                                                     
                    shadow-discus                                                                                  
                    s                                                                                              
                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                   




On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@f... wrote:

> If you expand the links on an item that it as the
> bottom of the screen, you can't scroll down to see the
> links.

           I didn't believe you until I tried it myself. Holy cow! I'll fix
that soon-ish!

> Could we have an option to expand and collapse links in the
> link manager itself? This way, we could use the feature even
> on lists where there is no link column in the display.

           I'll see what I can do..

> Again, for lists with no link column in the display
> (but also useful in general) can tapping on the person icon
> or the memo icon take you straight to the linked entry?

           If you want to jump around to links, hwy not have a link arrow
column? Thats what its for.



--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: rshupe@i...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 3:33pm
Subject: Congratulations on ShadowPlan's pick as Essential Palm App

This is my first post on this board as I usually am lurking and 
learning from the messages about how folks are using their 
ShadowPlan. But I found this link on the Palm Infocenter site to a 
Palmtop Pro article naming ShadowPlan as its outliner of choice as an 
essential Palm Application (out of how many thousands?). I thought 
I'd pass it along.

http://www.palmtop-pro.com/tips/tips0108.htm#engl

Congratulations Jeff! Its good to see all your hard work pay off with 
recognition from the greater Palm community.

Russ

From: Griff  <keith@t...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 3:35pm
Subject: Re: Bad Load when coming from Datebk4

How about having a preference for what list to create the new item in?

Going back to my previous thoughts/suggestions, I was thinking it 
could create an item quickly in an Inbox list...would save a few 
steps for me...



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@f... wrote:
> 
> > OK, will not use for the moment. 
> > 
> > Would be really nice in some future
> > release to be able to use this DB4 feature 
> > to go to an existing linked record in shadow.
> 
> 	I'm not sure what you mean (I'm not much of a DB4 user :P)  
If you
> mean you have a Shadow item, and link it to the datebook, and are 
in DB4
> and want to return.. then its up to DB4 to understand the Shadow 
link and
> how to get back into Shadow.. not up to me. (ie: The running 
program has
> control).  There is a Hack called "Linker" which lets you do all 
sorts of
> maniac things, though ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 4:10pm
Subject: Re: Congratulations on ShadowPlan's pick as Essential Palm App

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 rshupe@i... wrote:

> Congratulations Jeff! Its good to see all your hard work pay off with 
> recognition from the greater Palm community.

	Thanks :)

	This is philosophical in a way; most companies have a large sales
and marketting division, people to push things in web boards, etc. People
who manage things other than building the product "per se". But I rely on
simple blue collar hard work, treating everyone with respect, etc, hoping
that just good old fashion work will encourage people to spread the word.
We'll see in the long run if this works, but so far its done well enough
and certainly pulled us all together into a more close knit bunch. That
alone is pretty rewarding..


		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 4:12pm
Subject: Re: Re: Bad Load when coming from Datebk4

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Griff wrote:

> How about having a preference for what list to create the new item in?
> 
> Going back to my previous thoughts/suggestions, I was thinking it 
> could create an item quickly in an Inbox list...would save a few 
> steps for me...

	Maybe; but its too "db4" dependant. DB4 is used by a lot of
people, but I'd rather spend time on features that work for everyone.

	I have considered the idea of a preference to set which list to
open, always. Sort of like a Table of Contents. Whenever Shadow opens
normally, go to a certain file instead of the last file. That might be
good enough to help people out. But supporting DB4's time based item
creation may just not be appropriate for Shadow..

	(ie: There are launcher extensions and hacks for this
purpose.. DB4's item is for another purpose. Mixing the two is
conceptually unclean..)

		jeff

> 
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ianf@f... wrote:
> > 
> > > OK, will not use for the moment. 
> > > 
> > > Would be really nice in some future
> > > release to be able to use this DB4 feature 
> > > to go to an existing linked record in shadow.
> > 
> > 	I'm not sure what you mean (I'm not much of a DB4 user :P)  
> If you
> > mean you have a Shadow item, and link it to the datebook, and are 
> in DB4
> > and want to return.. then its up to DB4 to understand the Shadow 
> link and
> > how to get back into Shadow.. not up to me. (ie: The running 
> program has
> > control).  There is a Hack called "Linker" which lets you do all 
> sorts of
> > maniac things, though ;)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: kevinprice@u...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 4:51pm
Subject: Re: Recent/Favorite Feature Design

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., ianf@f... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., kevinprice@u... wrote:
> > 
> > Both SilverScreen and McPhling have Recent/Favorite lists that are
> customizable to preference.  If you decide to look into this, these
> two apps might be worth checking out.
> > 
> > They both allow the user to create lists of a user-defined number of
> items that can be combinations of Recent/Favorites (5/5, 7/3, 4/6,
> etc) or exclusively all recent or favorite files.
> 
> Yeah, this could be a good way to produce both a bookmarking
> ability (always know where some files are in the list), and
> a backwards and forwards option. I'd be very happy to see this :)
> 
> As for an extra button to bring this list up... I guess
> I just have small file names that leave lots of space at
> the top of my screen...
> 
>       - Ian.

I wouldn't think it would require a new button, but instead would be in the functionality of the existing Recent button.

In SilverScreen, there are the titles My Picks (Favorites) and Recent Files with the corresponding files below each with a bullet.  Tapping a title brings up the the list's configurations menu.

SilverScreen uses an icon as it's trigger button, whereas McPhling uses a stroke in the silkscreen area.  If it's preferred to keep the text-labelled trigger button, Recent (as now) would be fine, or another option would be to rename it "Favs".  "Favs" could be considered both the files you've frequently or recently accessed.

Optionally, a grafitti stroke could open the list (although from what I've noticed in previous posts, the availabity of unused letters is dwindling).

Kevin

From: ral613@y...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:15pm
Subject: Improving usability

Jeff,

I'm interested in reducing the number of pen taps I need to get my 
work done in Shadow. I'm a former Brainforest user, and although I 
think Shadow is a superior product, it takes me much more tapping to 
get my work done in Shadow. Here are some suggestions that would 
really improve the usability for me.

Sorry if these ideas are repeats. I did a quick check and didn't 
notice them in this forum already.

PROBLEM: I often want to change List Preferences from the main Shadow 
screen. This takes too many taps (open list, List-->Preferences)
FIX: I need a "details" button from main screen (list of outlines). 
The best way to do this IMO is by changing List-->Rename to List--
>Preferences, and letting me change the filename in the List 
Preferences box. In addition, adding a "Prefs" button beside New, 
Open and Recent would be great.

PROBLEM: I need to be able to change line item type (task, checklist 
item, note, ...) quickly and easily, e.g. right from the screen with 
a pull down menu when some part of the screen is touched. Right now 
it takes four taps.
FIX: Use the V menu. When an item is selected it acts on the item. 
When nothing is selected it acts on the list, as it does now.

REQUEST: When importing, display an "in progress" box so I know it 
hasn't failed on larger imports that take a long time. No one likes a 
display that appears hung when it's working.

REQUEST: Numbering is great, but I like run-together numbering in the 
style "1.4.2.3". Can I have it? Also, can I have numbering on all 
levels automatically, not just the top three levels?

REQUEST: I need a shift/caps-lock indicator when entering an imported 
list's title.

REQUEST: I need a repeating scroll in import memo picker. Tapping the 
down arrow over and over again to get to the memo I need to import is 
a drag.

Other than that, thanks for a great product!

Rick Low
Ottawa, Canada

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Improving usability

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 ral613@y... wrote:

> I'm interested in reducing the number of pen taps I need to get my 
> work done in Shadow. I'm a former Brainforest user, and although I 
> think Shadow is a superior product, it takes me much more tapping to 
> get my work done in Shadow. Here are some suggestions that would 
> really improve the usability for me.

	Always welcome :)

> PROBLEM: I often want to change List Preferences from the main Shadow 
> screen. This takes too many taps (open list, List-->Preferences)

	Open list, top right popdown lets you set category as in most
apps; the category name isn't written, to save space, but you can still
operate it the same.

> FIX: I need a "details" button from main screen (list of outlines). 
> The best way to do this IMO is by changing List-->Rename to List--
> >Preferences, and letting me change the filename in the List 
> Preferences box. In addition, adding a "Prefs" button beside New, 
> Open and Recent would be great.

	Its on my list of things to do, but not really high since most
people don't change categories much; a file is usually created and set
into some cat, and left for life.

> PROBLEM: I need to be able to change line item type (task, checklist 
> item, note, ...) quickly and easily, e.g. right from the screen with 
> a pull down menu when some part of the screen is touched. Right now 
> it takes four taps.
> FIX: Use the V menu. When an item is selected it acts on the item. 
> When nothing is selected it acts on the list, as it does now.

	I don't like to have much behaviour change based on context; that
tends to confuse people and in general is a GUI no-no. Do you need to
change item type much? (ie: In BF and others, can you do it at
all?) Generally, most people will format an item once and leave it (I
assume, I could be wrong, but I assume). Hence, changing it in details
seems logical. (ie: We can't have everything available, everywhere)

> REQUEST: When importing, display an "in progress" box so I know it 
> hasn't failed on larger imports that take a long time. No one likes a 
> display that appears hung when it's working.

	Which imports are slow? Todo imports can be slow but most people
don't import everything more than once. Are memo imports slow?

> REQUEST: Numbering is great, but I like run-together numbering in the 
> style "1.4.2.3". Can I have it? Also, can I have numbering on all 
> levels automatically, not just the top three levels?

	I'll eventually be adding a auto-number level-lock to make it
easier to set global numbering. Catenated numbering is on my todo, but I
dont' get requests for it so I've let it slip. 

	Anyone else want this? I can look into it to see how easy it would
be to add.

> REQUEST: I need a shift/caps-lock indicator when entering an imported 
> list's title.

	My bad. I'll do that ASAP!

> REQUEST: I need a repeating scroll in import memo picker. Tapping the 
> down arrow over and over again to get to the memo I need to import is 
> a drag.

	Thats a palm OS issue, I think.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: alwaysenuf@y...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:44pm
Subject: Re: File Link request: *New List

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 	You can already pull up the Recent List thing (see under the 
[V]
> menu in 1.5.14 or so, for instance) and it can create new lists..
> 
> 		jeff

Jeff, 
Thanks for the hint.  This works well but I never would have 
connected it without your pointing it out.  
M. Schmidbauer

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Aug 22, 2001 7:50pm
Subject: Re: Improving usability

REQUEST: Numbering is great, but I like run-together numbering in the
> style "1.4.2.3". Can I have it? Also, can I have numbering on all
> levels automatically, not just the top three levels?
>
>          I'll eventually be adding a auto-number level-lock to make it
>easier to set global numbering. Catenated numbering is on my todo, but I
>dont' get requests for it so I've let it slip.
>
>          Anyone else want this? I can look into it to see how easy it
would
>be to add.


I normally use the same numbering system for all lists, and would also like
to see auto-numbering go deeper than 3 levels. So the level-lock sounds
cool. While I've used catenated numbers from time to time it's not a biggie
for me.

Scott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 23, 2001 0:47am
Subject: Re: Improving usability

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> I normally use the same numbering system for all lists, and would also like
> to see auto-numbering go deeper than 3 levels. So the level-lock sounds
> cool. While I've used catenated numbers from time to time it's not a biggie
> for me.

	You can use autonumbering on any levels; its just currently only
lockable for the top 3 levels. Currently, beyond level 3, its set
sub-level by sub-level, which is still pretty useful (a new item will
inherit the autonumbering of items on the same level)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_