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1701

From: Michael Bryan  <moid@e...>
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 11:39pm
Subject: RE: Categories rearranging themselves

 
Jeff,

I found another way to reproduce this problem without ever leaving Shadow.

From the main ShadowPlan screen, set "Category A"
1. Click on the "Recent" button
2. Open a list that's in "Category B"
3. Drop the category list down and see that "Category A" is highlighted
4. Modify something and save the list
5. The modified list is now in "Category A"

This problem is beginning to make organizing my lists by category a
full-time job. :)

I'm getting in the habit of checking the category as soon as I open any list
so I can change it back to the correct category before doing anything else
with it (at step #3 above). I use Linker and Global Find a lot so this has
become a constant problem for me.

-mike


->       I know exactly where this problem is.. hopefully I can get a
-> chance to do some development and fix it soon..
->
->             jeff

-> On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 opitz@s... wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> I just tried this with 1.5.12, and I'm still getting files AWOL
> from their categories this way.
>
> As for Joe's suggestion, I haven't yet seen someone post a concrete
> example of this problem without Linker, so here's one:
>
> Open a Shadow file, say in the Business category. Now do a global find
> for something you know is in a file in another Shadow category, say
> Unfiled, and tap to jump to it. If you look at the List Preferences,
> you'll see that the category of the file is now changed to Business.
>
> Here's the catch: Shadow seems to have no idea this has happened. So
> if you just close the file without making any changes, it remains in
> the old (Unfiled) category. If you make any change so that Shadow must
> save it, it goes into the changed (Business) category.
>
> I can also get this to happen with Intelligent Find, which uses its
> own search engine (not Palm's). The common thread in the problem seems
> to be: 1) Shadow has a file open, 2) Some OTHER application jumps to a
> record in a file in a different category, 3) You make a change to the
> different file (else the category reverts to the correct one).
>
> Bob
>
>
1702

From: rayae@y...
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 0:07am
Subject: Re: Details View

 
The version I am using is 1.5.12. See comment below.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> From:  Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
> Date:  Wed Jul 18, 2001  1:55 pm
> Subject:  Re: [shadow-discuss] Details View
> 
> On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 rayae@y... wrote:
> 
> > I recently was using Shadowplan to take notes in a meeting and 
> > thought a few minor additions to the 'Details' View of an outline 
> > item would make note taking easier:
> 
> You mean the list view mode (in my terms)? The "detail view" is
> after you hit the Details button and are inspecting a single
> item. I(below I thoguht youmeant list view, but realize you 
> really did mean detail view after)
> 
> > command: A (add/edit note) 
> > (I know this one is a button, but I find command shortcuts easier 
> > when I am trying to do grafitti.)
> 
> Already present; be sure to use 1.5.6 or 1.5.12, though I think
> this shortcut was in earlier versions too?
> 
> > command: H (new child)
> > command: N (new item)
> 
> 	These have always been present.
> 
> I must assume you mean for these to work inside of the Detail
> window then .. you wish to be able to keep adding to a list, 
> even though you're in the details window of an item?
> 

Yes, I found that when taking notes, I was more interested in
adding items, not viewing the outline, so taking the time to tap
OK before I used the command H (or N) was an extra step. It also
meant I needed to look up from the Graffiti area to find the OK
button.

> 	Hmmm. Anyone else?
> 
> > Allow the Page up/down (hard keys) to move to siblings above and 
> > below the selected item instead of stopping at the top or bottom 
of 
> > the item text.
> 
> 	The cursor is auto placed into the text fields so that you can
> begin typing quickly once you summon Details. How the keys interact 
inside
> of that field is set -- I prefer not to change the behaviour, since
> they're Palm standard and it oculd break hacks and things to 
meddle.. 
> 

If not the hard keys, then maybe a menu item w/ graffiti
shortcut. When using ShadowPlan for note taking, I found the
single line (no line wrap in the outline) to be preferable. When
I looked at the outline I wanted to see as much as possible, so
to "read" several items consecutively is a chore since I need to
double tap the item then tap OK and double tap the next item.

Another solution would be to provide a fast way to switch between
title line wrap modes*. Perhaps add an option to the View pull
down (Upper right corner of the outline form)

* By switch 'title line wrap modes' I mean toggle the option that
can be found on the List options form under list preferences. The
title is 'Supress title word wrap'

> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1703

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:23am
Subject: Re: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> I have to admit that I do not use this feature too often, so I don't 
> have strong feeling one way or another on how it works. I would 
> caution against changes that are based on "being easy to do with 
> *Hack". People do not always want to load hacks on their device.

	I don't do anything with hacks, except to try and stay out of
their way; I try and avoid them on my own unit, since I've found a number
of hacks to be unreliable; I do use AfterBurner often, however..

> Since I am fairly new to Palm, is the "Ctrl" key synonymous with the 
> Forward slash movement in the grafitti area? Thanks for the help.

	A palm keyboard ctrl key is the same as shortcut yeah.

	I think I need to buy a Visor keyboard so I can test things; it'll
stop me from getting a Clie, too, since I can't quite justify the need to
upgrade..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1704

From: paul_mckeon@y...
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:27am
Subject: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
My feeling is /Z and /z to Zoom/UnZoom would be easy to remember but 
the additional pen-stroke for the uppercase could become a pain on 
repeated use (sorry, don't know what middlecaps is).

I think my vote would be for two different, lower case letters (or 
on-screen buttons - just kidding, where would you put it). Paul

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 	I dunno; it has a bad feel for me. I can do it if people want 
> it, but it stills feels funny :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > > 
> > > > With MiddleCapsHack its as easy as any other pair of letters 
> and a bit
> > > > easier to remember.
> > > > 
> > > > Bob
> 
> Jeff,
> I have to admit that I do not use this feature too often, so I don't 
> have strong feeling one way or another on how it works. I would 
> caution against changes that are based on "being easy to do with 
> *Hack". People do not always want to load hacks on their device.
> 
> Since I am fairly new to Palm, is the "Ctrl" key synonymous with the 
> Forward slash movement in the grafitti area? Thanks for the help.
> 
> Scott
1705

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:43am
Subject: Re: RE: Categories rearranging themselves

 
Doh. So far its doable from Recent, Global Find, and some other
one I forget off the top of my head; its the same problem for all of
them. I'll fix it soon. I've just not had time to work on the Palm app for
a week or two .. workign on the desktop app and a patio right now :)

		jeff

On Wed, 18 Jul 2001, Michael Bryan wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
> I found another way to reproduce this problem without ever leaving Shadow.
> 
> >From the main ShadowPlan screen, set "Category A"
> 1. Click on the "Recent" button
> 2. Open a list that's in "Category B"
> 3. Drop the category list down and see that "Category A" is highlighted
> 4. Modify something and save the list
> 5. The modified list is now in "Category A"
> 
> This problem is beginning to make organizing my lists by category a
> full-time job. :)
> 
> I'm getting in the habit of checking the category as soon as I open any list
> so I can change it back to the correct category before doing anything else
> with it (at step #3 above). I use Linker and Global Find a lot so this has
> become a constant problem for me.
> 
> -mike
> 
> 
> ->       I know exactly where this problem is.. hopefully I can get a
> -> chance to do some development and fix it soon..
> ->
> ->             jeff
> 
> -> On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 opitz@s... wrote:
> 
> > Jeff,
> >
> > I just tried this with 1.5.12, and I'm still getting files AWOL
> > from their categories this way.
> >
> > As for Joe's suggestion, I haven't yet seen someone post a concrete
> > example of this problem without Linker, so here's one:
> >
> > Open a Shadow file, say in the Business category. Now do a global find
> > for something you know is in a file in another Shadow category, say
> > Unfiled, and tap to jump to it. If you look at the List Preferences,
> > you'll see that the category of the file is now changed to Business.
> >
> > Here's the catch: Shadow seems to have no idea this has happened. So
> > if you just close the file without making any changes, it remains in
> > the old (Unfiled) category. If you make any change so that Shadow must
> > save it, it goes into the changed (Business) category.
> >
> > I can also get this to happen with Intelligent Find, which uses its
> > own search engine (not Palm's). The common thread in the problem seems
> > to be: 1) Shadow has a file open, 2) Some OTHER application jumps to a
> > record in a file in a different category, 3) You make a change to the
> > different file (else the category reverts to the correct one).
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1706

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:47am
Subject: Re: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 paul_mckeon@y... wrote:

> My feeling is /Z and /z to Zoom/UnZoom would be easy to remember but 
> the additional pen-stroke for the uppercase could become a pain on 
> repeated use (sorry, don't know what middlecaps is).
> 
> I think my vote would be for two different, lower case letters (or 
> on-screen buttons - just kidding, where would you put it). Paul

	Thats my feel too .. just need to pick two keys :)

		Jeff

> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > 	I dunno; it has a bad feel for me. I can do it if people want 
> > it, but it stills feels funny :)
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > With MiddleCapsHack its as easy as any other pair of letters 
> > and a bit
> > > > > easier to remember.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bob
> > 
> > Jeff,
> > I have to admit that I do not use this feature too often, so I don't 
> > have strong feeling one way or another on how it works. I would 
> > caution against changes that are based on "being easy to do with 
> > *Hack". People do not always want to load hacks on their device.
> > 
> > Since I am fairly new to Palm, is the "Ctrl" key synonymous with the 
> > Forward slash movement in the grafitti area? Thanks for the help.
> > 
> > Scott
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1707

From: smasters@a...
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:34pm
Subject: Re: Details View

 
> > > I recently was using Shadowplan to take notes in a meeting and 
> > > thought a few minor additions to the 'Details' View of an 
outline item would make note taking easier:
> > 

Jeff,

This brings a couple of questions to mind:

1. Could you tell us how many registered users of ShadowPlan there 
are?

2. Have you ever done a survey to see how people use Shadow?

I know how I use Shadow, but I would like to get an idea of how the 
majority uses it.

Scott
1708

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 8:51pm
Subject: Re: Re: Details View

 
On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> 1. Could you tell us how many registered users of ShadowPlan there 
> are?

	Confidential. "Lots" :) I don't charge much, so I don't think I've
broken even yet, but hoping to :)

> 2. Have you ever done a survey to see how people use Shadow?

	I don't wish to "spam" my registration email database; the email
addresses were freely given for registration purposes.. I hope that the
mailing lists provide a reasonable cross section of the vocal users. This
sort of spam coudl be useful spam, but I'd rather avoid it. Perhaps I
coudl slip in somethign to a distribution, so users coudl submit their
opinions when downloading upgrades.. *shrug*

> I know how I use Shadow, but I would like to get an idea of how the 
> majority uses it.

	Post your usage ideas and see how many others do :) Check the
archives, perhaps. This comes back to the idea of me putting up a little
webpage that lets you paste in text, like a grafitti wall, so everyone
coudl record their favourite tips and uses..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1709

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: Details View

 
Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 smasters@a... wrote:
> 
> 	I don't wish to "spam" my registration email database; the email
> addresses were freely given for registration purposes.. I hope that the
> mailing lists provide a reasonable cross section of the vocal users. This
> sort of spam coudl be useful spam, but I'd rather avoid it. Perhaps I
> coudl slip in somethign to a distribution, so users coudl submit their
> opinions when downloading upgrades.. *shrug*

This is why you are our personal hero Jeff...great software and spam free.
1710

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:52pm
Subject: 'New From' Testing...

 
I just put Shadow through the hard reset testing.  I did a hard reset and
installed only shadow and the datebook database.  I created a new shadow
file and tried to import from the datebook using new from...  Still nothing
shows up in the dialog box. I checked the datebook and there were events
listed.  Don't know what is causing it.  I am using a IIIX with OS 3.1
Thanks!

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************
1711

From: kennymobley@b...
Date: Thu Jul 19, 2001 11:47pm
Subject: Re: Details View

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> 2. Have you ever done a survey to see how people use Shadow?
> 
> I know how I use Shadow, but I would like to get an idea of how the 
> majority uses it.
> 
> Scott

Scott,

For some great usage ideas, check out the Yahoo! Group titled 
GtD_Palm at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GtD_Palm.  The group 
centers around David Allen's Getting Things Done.

Kenny
1712

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:12pm
Subject: Re: Details View

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., kennymobley@b... wrote:
> For some great usage ideas, check out the Yahoo! Group titled 
> GtD_Palm at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GtD_Palm.  The group 
> centers around David Allen's Getting Things Done.
> 
> Kenny

Thanks Kenny,

I am already a member of that group, and have gotten some good tips 
from there. I am pretty comfortable with my system, but am always 
surprised to hear how others use the software. I would have never 
thought of using Shadow to take notes in meetings as Andrew was 
discussing at the start of this thread. I use Shadow mostly as a 
project management and list keeping tool. I then link to the other 
native apps.; tasks to ToDo, Appointments to Datebook, and Notes are 
taken in CryptoPad and then linked.

I guess my biggest qestion to the group is:

Do you see Shadow Plan as the do-all and end-all application for 
planning purposes, or do you see it more as the higher-level planning 
tool with other apps to support the lower-level activities? Thanks 
for all the good ideas so far.

Scott
1713

From: rayae@y...
Date: Sat Jul 21, 2001 5:45pm
Subject: Re: Details View

 
Jeff has done a great job a creating a small and fast package with 
alot of flexibility. Note taking is great in Shadow, because I can 
reorganize the subjects or jump around very quickly. Any notes I have 
taken so far, I export off my Palm. 

I do keep "post-it" notes in Shadow also. It keeps my monitor less 
cluttered and it is easier to find what I need. The tree structure 
makes organization a snap.

Andrew


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., kennymobley@b... wrote:
> > For some great usage ideas, check out the Yahoo! Group titled 
> > GtD_Palm at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GtD_Palm.  The group 
> > centers around David Allen's Getting Things Done.
> > 
> > Kenny
> 
> Thanks Kenny,
> 
> I am already a member of that group, and have gotten some good tips 
> from there. I am pretty comfortable with my system, but am always 
> surprised to hear how others use the software. I would have never 
> thought of using Shadow to take notes in meetings as Andrew was 
> discussing at the start of this thread. I use Shadow mostly as a 
> project management and list keeping tool. I then link to the other 
> native apps.; tasks to ToDo, Appointments to Datebook, and Notes 
are 
> taken in CryptoPad and then linked.
> 
> I guess my biggest qestion to the group is:
> 
> Do you see Shadow Plan as the do-all and end-all application for 
> planning purposes, or do you see it more as the higher-level 
planning 
> tool with other apps to support the lower-level activities? Thanks 
> for all the good ideas so far.
> 
> Scott
1714

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Sat Jul 21, 2001 10:01pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Demetrios" <demetrios@c...> wrote:
>    So you're saying that it's "counter-intuitive" because it helps 
> you too much?

No that's not what I'm saying. Read back my original message.

> If you're easily confused, just ignore the indicator at the top.

I'm not easily confused. I just outlined my prefered drag & drop 
mechanism. Jeff asked why people didn't use drag & drop and I gave my 
personal opinion.

> That still leaves the row "spotter" that tells you pretty 
> much exactly where it's going. What more do y'all want, someone to 
> come hold your hand and show you how it's done?

I said what I wanted, so once again, I'll let my original message 
speak for itself.

>    Jeff, why waste your time and energy {not to mention a valuable  
> line of text} just because people want every program to be exactly 
> alike so they don't have to take the time to RtFM or to bother
> trying to figure out how each program is unique.

I suppose you've been looking over my shoulder all this time when I 
was using Shadow. How else could you know whether or not I read the 
manual. If we all felt that Shadow was 100% perfect and self-
explanatory, then why do we still have this forum?

> If you're gonna go that far, how about all you programers getting
> together and agreeing on one set of shoutcuts. I mean, you know
> how many split-seconds it costs me every time I have to remember
> what each /command means what in which program?
>    So, Jeff, keep up the good work and stop wasting your time
> trying to reduce to it's lowest common denominator, a really
> great, very easy to use {if you bother to spend a few minutes
> getting to know it and maybe even read the manual} program.

Your sarcasm far outweighs your insight my friend. You ridicule the 
idea of common interface concepts across applications while this very 
concept made popular operating systems like Windows and MacOS the 
market leaders that they are today.

If you feel that Jeff would waste his time on all ideas that don't 
match yours, then you're better off in a forum where you're the only 
member.

> Again, thanks for a great program, Jeff;

I agree with you on that.

Roy.
1715

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Sat Jul 21, 2001 10:13pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
> 	The Shadow indicator shows almost exactly where it will
> show up, though -- it shows where the item will begin. It gives
> more information that in other apps -- it shows that the item
> will be a child or sibling by its level of indent, and exactly
> where it will insert. So I got you covered there, I think :)

To use your own words: almost exactly! :)

One thing I don't like is that the "sweet spot" (the horizontal 
location where a child turns into a sibling or vice versa) is at the 
same location for all indent levels. I feel that this location should 
be relative to the indent level.

Also, because of the fact that both the item to be dragged and the 
item to be dropped upon are displayed in reverse video, the location 
indicator below the item sometimes disappears. To be exact: when I 
drag an item up one line, I can't see the indicator anymore.

Finally, I'd still like to be able to drag an item to the top of a 
list, even though there are workarounds to accomplish this.

> 	I'm assuming you would just rather have a horizontal line
> that you just can't miss, over a little target thing that blends
> in?

I feel that this would solve the issues I mentioned before. If you 
can devise a different way to achieve the same result, I'd love to 
hear it!

Roy.
1716

From: tonyelit@s...
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 0:09am
Subject: Filter questions

 
Hi jeff 
What if the logic behind the following filters
a) current - past items. Shouldn't it be target date <= today
if it is why are items with future target dates or no target dates 
shown
b) current - future items (target >=today)



Thanks for your attention
1717

From: doug809@h...
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 7:34am
Subject: Request: time estimates

 
Hi Jeff,

I just registered today and wanted to say thanks for creating such a 
great program!

Stop me if someone has requested this feature before :), but it would 
really help me with project management. (I couldn't find anything by 
searching the archives so I thought I'd ask). 

At work, our managers track things pretty carefully & always ask us 
to estimate the effort/time it will take to complete a given project 
or set of tasks.

The visual progress bars in Shadow are one of my favourite features, 
but as it stands now, they don't seem to allow any kind 
of "weighting" of the subtasks.  For example, I tend to think of 
progress more in terms of time (e.g. project will take 3 days and I 
am 50% done) instead of thinking in terms of number of subtasks (e.g. 
this project has 8 subtasks, 4 of which are done so therefore the 
project is 50% complete).  

It would be great if there was a field (at the subtask or child 
level) allowing for expected task duration (e.g. 4 hours).  It 
wouldn't even have to be in the main view, just having it available 
in the details would do the job.  Then, somewhere at the parent 
level, it would show the total time for all the subtasks.

I could then use this info to help set the Target Dates for my 
projects.


What do you think?

Thanks,
Doug
1718

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 doug809@h... wrote:

> I just registered today and wanted to say thanks for creating such a 
> great program!

	Thanks for trying it out :)

> Stop me if someone has requested this feature before :), but it would 
> really help me with project management. (I couldn't find anything by 
> searching the archives so I thought I'd ask). 

	This has been mentioned before, but I think its been a long
while..

> The visual progress bars in Shadow are one of my favourite features, 
> but as it stands now, they don't seem to allow any kind 
> of "weighting" of the subtasks.  For example, I tend to think of 
> progress more in terms of time (e.g. project will take 3 days and I 
> am 50% done) instead of thinking in terms of number of subtasks (e.g. 
> this project has 8 subtasks, 4 of which are done so therefore the 
> project is 50% complete).  

	This is a tough problem -- how to handle implicit progress, or
better weighting, or better time control .. all while keeping Shadow
generic enough to be used by everyone.

	I'm half tempted to make a list pref to chose the style of details
box shown, to allow you to say "don't show me this project crap, just show
me text", or the reverse "give me all the project details, with small text
areas". *shrug*. Anyway,

	Implications:

	1) UI change; where to put the weight value. Is it desirable by
everyone? Would it clumsy up things?

	2) Can the weight be implmented as such:

		i) Right now, Shadow (off the top of my head) counts up
the number of items below a parent, and their total %age sum, and divides
the sum by count to obtain the %age.

		ii) Can it now do the same, except multiply the items %age
by weighting? ie:

	item1	75%	weight 1
	item2	25%	weight 3

	Old calc: ( 75 + 25 ) / 2 = 50%
	Proposed calc: ( 75 + ( 25 * 3 ) ) / 2 = 75%

	If that is correct, it should not be too difficult an operation to
implement (ie: Simple update to the existing logic, and passive, since all
weights by default would be 1)

> It would be great if there was a field (at the subtask or child 
> level) allowing for expected task duration (e.g. 4 hours).  It 
> wouldn't even have to be in the main view, just having it available 
> in the details would do the job.  Then, somewhere at the parent 
> level, it would show the total time for all the subtasks.

	I'll likely be adding a "misc field" to allow for things like
this, so you can enter a number or text or whatever you like into a small
text field.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1719

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 1:45pm
Subject: Back to Shadow from Link

 
Jeff,

In the GtD_Palm group the following discussion is in progress:

--- In GtD_Palm@y..., scrap-n-chat@h... wrote:
> --- In GtD_Palm@y..., verxion@p... wrote:
> 
> > 4. If you need the ability to link to external programs, it looks 
> like Shadow Plan wins HANDS DOWN.  Both Bonsai and Life Balance 
allow 
> linking to To-Do items but they don't seem to currently offer 
linking 
> to anything else.  Shadow Plan even has a neato little go-back 
> function built in to return you to Shadow Plan after going 
somewhere 
> else.
> 
> > -Joe Chott
> 
> Joe...
> 
> How do you go back?  I haven't been able to figure this feature out.
> 
> Leisel
You have to be running a beta of ShadowPlan.  You can ask about it on 
Jeff
Mitchell's mailing list - he makes the beta's available to anyone 
that asks,
but he doesn't want them given out outside of his process.

On the new beta, you can just follow a link out of Shadow Plan, then 
when you
are done with it, tap on the "Home" icon, and you go back to Shadow. 
Subsequent taps of the "Home" icon get you to the 
normal "Applications" program.

-Joe Chott


Jeff, I have installed 1.5.12, but if I follow a Link then tap the 
Home icon, I go to my "desktop", not back to Shadow. What am I doing 
wrong?

Scott
1720

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 2:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On Sat, 21 Jul 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> One thing I don't like is that the "sweet spot" (the horizontal 
> location where a child turns into a sibling or vice versa) is at the 
> same location for all indent levels. I feel that this location should 
> be relative to the indent level.

	It was originally, but this screwed people up badly :) (ie: The
fact that it is consistent is more helpful, since you can just dfrag and
know what will happen. Having it relative just blew people's speed away)

> Also, because of the fact that both the item to be dragged and the 
> item to be dropped upon are displayed in reverse video, the location 
> indicator below the item sometimes disappears. To be exact: when I 
> drag an item up one line, I can't see the indicator anymore.

	Yep, agreed 100%.

> Finally, I'd still like to be able to drag an item to the top of a 
> list, even though there are workarounds to accomplish this.

	Also agreed 100%. The trick is..

	Right now, if you drag off the top, it'll try and scroll a bit. I
guess thats okay, but I should add a special rule.. if you drag off the
top, and you're at the list top, then a drop means to drop at the
top. S'okay?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1721

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 2:26pm
Subject: Re: Filter questions

 
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 tonyelit@s... wrote:

> What if the logic behind the following filters
> a) current - past items. Shouldn't it be target date <= today
> if it is why are items with future target dates or no target dates 
> shown

	No target date must also be shown. Future target items won't show
for current/paste targets.

> b) current - future items (target >=today)

	Future and today shoudl show, but not past items. Undated will
also show. (I think.. I dont' use the filters much myself). If you need to
know, I can dig up the rules for the filters for you..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1722

From: ext555@p...
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 2:41pm
Subject: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
Jeff, would a misc text field (that's been mentioned previously) with 
a sum total per item level handle this? When this was first brought 
up as  a possibility, I asked if this would meet my need to estimate 
the time required to complete a list of items etc. 

just a thought, 

Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 doug809@h... wrote:
> 
> > I just registered today and wanted to say thanks for creating 
such a 
> > great program!
> 
> 	Thanks for trying it out :)
> 
> > Stop me if someone has requested this feature before :), but it 
would 
> > really help me with project management. (I couldn't find anything 
by 
> > searching the archives so I thought I'd ask). 
> 
> 	This has been mentioned before, but I think its been a long
> while..
> 
> > The visual progress bars in Shadow are one of my favourite 
features, 
> > but as it stands now, they don't seem to allow any kind 
> > of "weighting" of the subtasks.  For example, I tend to think of 
> > progress more in terms of time (e.g. project will take 3 days and 
I 
> > am 50% done) instead of thinking in terms of number of subtasks 
(e.g. 
> > this project has 8 subtasks, 4 of which are done so therefore the 
> > project is 50% complete).  
> 
> 	This is a tough problem -- how to handle implicit progress, or
> better weighting, or better time control .. all while keeping Shadow
> generic enough to be used by everyone.
> 
> 	I'm half tempted to make a list pref to chose the style of 
details
> box shown, to allow you to say "don't show me this project crap, 
just show
> me text", or the reverse "give me all the project details, with 
small text
> areas". *shrug*. Anyway,
> 
> 	Implications:
> 
> 	1) UI change; where to put the weight value. Is it desirable 
by
> everyone? Would it clumsy up things?
> 
> 	2) Can the weight be implmented as such:
> 
> 		i) Right now, Shadow (off the top of my head) counts 
up
> the number of items below a parent, and their total %age sum, and 
divides
> the sum by count to obtain the %age.
> 
> 		ii) Can it now do the same, except multiply the items 
%age
> by weighting? ie:
> 
> 	item1	75%	weight 1
> 	item2	25%	weight 3
> 
> 	Old calc: ( 75 + 25 ) / 2 = 50%
> 	Proposed calc: ( 75 + ( 25 * 3 ) ) / 2 = 75%
> 
> 	If that is correct, it should not be too difficult an 
operation to
> implement (ie: Simple update to the existing logic, and passive, 
since all
> weights by default would be 1)
> 
> > It would be great if there was a field (at the subtask or child 
> > level) allowing for expected task duration (e.g. 4 hours).  It 
> > wouldn't even have to be in the main view, just having it 
available 
> > in the details would do the job.  Then, somewhere at the parent 
> > level, it would show the total time for all the subtasks.
> 
> 	I'll likely be adding a "misc field" to allow for things like
> this, so you can enter a number or text or whatever you like into a 
small
> text field.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1723

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 2:47pm
Subject: Re: Back to Shadow from Link

 
There is a pref in I think Shadow Preferences or
thereabouts; "return to shadow after goto" or somesuch. Once you check it,
the App button will return you..

		jeff

On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
> In the GtD_Palm group the following discussion is in progress:
> 
> --- In GtD_Palm@y..., scrap-n-chat@h... wrote:
> > --- In GtD_Palm@y..., verxion@p... wrote:
> > 
> > > 4. If you need the ability to link to external programs, it looks 
> > like Shadow Plan wins HANDS DOWN.  Both Bonsai and Life Balance 
> allow 
> > linking to To-Do items but they don't seem to currently offer 
> linking 
> > to anything else.  Shadow Plan even has a neato little go-back 
> > function built in to return you to Shadow Plan after going 
> somewhere 
> > else.
> > 
> > > -Joe Chott
> > 
> > Joe...
> > 
> > How do you go back?  I haven't been able to figure this feature out.
> > 
> > Leisel
> You have to be running a beta of ShadowPlan.  You can ask about it on 
> Jeff
> Mitchell's mailing list - he makes the beta's available to anyone 
> that asks,
> but he doesn't want them given out outside of his process.
> 
> On the new beta, you can just follow a link out of Shadow Plan, then 
> when you
> are done with it, tap on the "Home" icon, and you go back to Shadow. 
> Subsequent taps of the "Home" icon get you to the 
> normal "Applications" program.
> 
> -Joe Chott
> 
> 
> Jeff, I have installed 1.5.12, but if I follow a Link then tap the 
> Home icon, I go to my "desktop", not back to Shadow. What am I doing 
> wrong?
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1724

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 3:38pm
Subject: Re: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 ext555@p... wrote:

> Jeff, would a misc text field (that's been mentioned previously) with 
> a sum total per item level handle this? When this was first brought 
> up as  a possibility, I asked if this would meet my need to estimate 
> the time required to complete a list of items etc. 

	For time estimates, yes (see below); however, for weighting, I
don't think it would be sufficient..

		jeff

> 
> just a thought, 
> 
> Paul 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 doug809@h... wrote:
> > 
> > > I just registered today and wanted to say thanks for creating 
> such a 
> > > great program!
> > 
> > 	Thanks for trying it out :)
> > 
> > > Stop me if someone has requested this feature before :), but it 
> would 
> > > really help me with project management. (I couldn't find anything 
> by 
> > > searching the archives so I thought I'd ask). 
> > 
> > 	This has been mentioned before, but I think its been a long
> > while..
> > 
> > > The visual progress bars in Shadow are one of my favourite 
> features, 
> > > but as it stands now, they don't seem to allow any kind 
> > > of "weighting" of the subtasks.  For example, I tend to think of 
> > > progress more in terms of time (e.g. project will take 3 days and 
> I 
> > > am 50% done) instead of thinking in terms of number of subtasks 
> (e.g. 
> > > this project has 8 subtasks, 4 of which are done so therefore the 
> > > project is 50% complete).  
> > 
> > 	This is a tough problem -- how to handle implicit progress, or
> > better weighting, or better time control .. all while keeping Shadow
> > generic enough to be used by everyone.
> > 
> > 	I'm half tempted to make a list pref to chose the style of 
> details
> > box shown, to allow you to say "don't show me this project crap, 
> just show
> > me text", or the reverse "give me all the project details, with 
> small text
> > areas". *shrug*. Anyway,
> > 
> > 	Implications:
> > 
> > 	1) UI change; where to put the weight value. Is it desirable 
> by
> > everyone? Would it clumsy up things?
> > 
> > 	2) Can the weight be implmented as such:
> > 
> > 		i) Right now, Shadow (off the top of my head) counts 
> up
> > the number of items below a parent, and their total %age sum, and 
> divides
> > the sum by count to obtain the %age.
> > 
> > 		ii) Can it now do the same, except multiply the items 
> %age
> > by weighting? ie:
> > 
> > 	item1	75%	weight 1
> > 	item2	25%	weight 3
> > 
> > 	Old calc: ( 75 + 25 ) / 2 = 50%
> > 	Proposed calc: ( 75 + ( 25 * 3 ) ) / 2 = 75%
> > 
> > 	If that is correct, it should not be too difficult an 
> operation to
> > implement (ie: Simple update to the existing logic, and passive, 
> since all
> > weights by default would be 1)
> > 
> > > It would be great if there was a field (at the subtask or child 
> > > level) allowing for expected task duration (e.g. 4 hours).  It 
> > > wouldn't even have to be in the main view, just having it 
> available 
> > > in the details would do the job.  Then, somewhere at the parent 
> > > level, it would show the total time for all the subtasks.
> > 
> > 	I'll likely be adding a "misc field" to allow for things like
> > this, so you can enter a number or text or whatever you like into a 
> small
> > text field.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1725

From: rayae@y...
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 4:59pm
Subject: Automatic bullets on leaf nodes

 
Does anyone know if there is a way to get Shadow to automatically put 
bullets on leaf nodes (items without children)? I see how to do it 
manually and how to do it explicitly for levels 1 2 or 3.

Andrew
1726

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 5:53pm
Subject: Re: Automatic bullets on leaf nodes

 
On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 rayae@y... wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is a way to get Shadow to automatically put 
> bullets on leaf nodes (items without children)? I see how to do it 
> manually and how to do it explicitly for levels 1 2 or 3.

	You can use item autonumbering to get a bullet on every item in
the sublevel.. ie: The list prefs allow oyu a conveniant way to set it for
the top 3 levels. But you can actually do it on your own, sublevel by
sublevel .. pull up some deep item, and in the autonumber section in its
Details, pick the bullet option. Then all items on that particular
sublevel will be bulleted..

	(Very handy for lean custom formats, or the Note type of list)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1727

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 8:12pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
> 	It was originally, but this screwed people up badly :)
> (ie: The fact that it is consistent is more helpful, since you
> can just dfrag and know what will happen.

Hmmm... let's agree to disagree. :)

> Having it relative just blew people's speed away)

That's odd, I feel that it would be more consistent with how drag & 
drop works in other popular applications on different platforms. Like 
Windows Explorer for example.

Anyway, I bow to the rules of democracy. :)

> 	Right now, if you drag off the top, it'll try and scroll a
> bit. I guess thats okay, but I should add a special rule.. if
> you drag off the top, and you're at the list top, then a drop
> means to drop at the top. S'okay?

Yep, makes perfect sense to me. That way you can drag an item to the 
top with one movement, even when the top item is not visible when you 
start dragging.

Roy.
1728

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jul 23, 2001 8:42pm
Subject: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
Jeff,

I know it's more work, but I kind of like the idea of different 
detail views based on what the task is being used for. If your using 
it for notes you don't need all the PM stuff, and if your using it as 
a project outline you don't need a lot of text. For the % complete it 
sounds like another field for hours/ task might be necessary, then 
the overall progress would be Sum(hours * %age)/total hours. I think 
that would be along the PM norm. Of course then you could get into a 
direct import/export to MS Project. Wouldn't that be slick. Just 
my .02 worth.

Scott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 ext555@p... wrote:
> 
> > Jeff, would a misc text field (that's been mentioned previously) 
with 
> > a sum total per item level handle this? When this was first 
brought 
> > up as  a possibility, I asked if this would meet my need to 
estimate 
> > the time required to complete a list of items etc. 
> 
> 	For time estimates, yes (see below); however, for weighting, I
> don't think it would be sufficient..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > just a thought, 
> > 
> > Paul 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 doug809@h... wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I just registered today and wanted to say thanks for creating 
> > such a 
> > > > great program!
> > > 
> > > 	Thanks for trying it out :)
> > > 
> > > > Stop me if someone has requested this feature before :), but 
it 
> > would 
> > > > really help me with project management. (I couldn't find 
anything 
> > by 
> > > > searching the archives so I thought I'd ask). 
> > > 
> > > 	This has been mentioned before, but I think its been a long
> > > while..
> > > 
> > > > The visual progress bars in Shadow are one of my favourite 
> > features, 
> > > > but as it stands now, they don't seem to allow any kind 
> > > > of "weighting" of the subtasks.  For example, I tend to think 
of 
> > > > progress more in terms of time (e.g. project will take 3 days 
and 
> > I 
> > > > am 50% done) instead of thinking in terms of number of 
subtasks 
> > (e.g. 
> > > > this project has 8 subtasks, 4 of which are done so therefore 
the 
> > > > project is 50% complete).  
> > > 
> > > 	This is a tough problem -- how to handle implicit progress, or
> > > better weighting, or better time control .. all while keeping 
Shadow
> > > generic enough to be used by everyone.
> > > 
> > > 	I'm half tempted to make a list pref to chose the style of 
> > details
> > > box shown, to allow you to say "don't show me this project 
crap, 
> > just show
> > > me text", or the reverse "give me all the project details, with 
> > small text
> > > areas". *shrug*. Anyway,
> > > 
> > > 	Implications:
> > > 
> > > 	1) UI change; where to put the weight value. Is it desirable 
> > by
> > > everyone? Would it clumsy up things?
> > > 
> > > 	2) Can the weight be implmented as such:
> > > 
> > > 		i) Right now, Shadow (off the top of my head) counts 
> > up
> > > the number of items below a parent, and their total %age sum, 
and 
> > divides
> > > the sum by count to obtain the %age.
> > > 
> > > 		ii) Can it now do the same, except multiply the items 
> > %age
> > > by weighting? ie:
> > > 
> > > 	item1	75%	weight 1
> > > 	item2	25%	weight 3
> > > 
> > > 	Old calc: ( 75 + 25 ) / 2 = 50%
> > > 	Proposed calc: ( 75 + ( 25 * 3 ) ) / 2 = 75%
> > > 
> > > 	If that is correct, it should not be too difficult an 
> > operation to
> > > implement (ie: Simple update to the existing logic, and 
passive, 
> > since all
> > > weights by default would be 1)
> > > 
> > > > It would be great if there was a field (at the subtask or 
child 
> > > > level) allowing for expected task duration (e.g. 4 hours).  
It 
> > > > wouldn't even have to be in the main view, just having it 
> > available 
> > > > in the details would do the job.  Then, somewhere at the 
parent 
> > > > level, it would show the total time for all the subtasks.
> > > 
> > > 	I'll likely be adding a "misc field" to allow for things like
> > > this, so you can enter a number or text or whatever you like 
into a 
> > small
> > > text field.
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own 
> > micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he 
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1729

From: doug809@h...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:52am
Subject: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
Wow, thanks for the fast response everyone!

>>> 1) UI change; where to put the weight value. 

My initial instinct was that if the extra field didn't fit on the 
details screen, then there could be a "More" type of button on the 
Details screen that would take you to another screen where the 
additional info could be added (along with any future fields that 
people may want).  

Hmm, did I use the word "screen" enough times in that last 
paragraph!? :)

I also like Scott's idea of having a different view ... 
maybe "Advanced Tasklist" or just "PM" or even "Tasks++" (ha ha).


>>> 2) Can the weight be implmented as such?:
[... Snip...]

Actually, Scott mentioned the formula I was thinking of ...

Numerator = percentage1*weight1 + p2*w2 + ... + pN*wN
Denominator = w1 + w2 + ... + wN

To use your earlier example:

item1	75%	weight 1
item2	25%	weight 3

Old calc: ( 75 + 25 ) / 2 = 50%
Proposed calc: ( (75 * 1) + ( 25 * 3 ) ) / (1+3) = 37.5%

basically, if the weight is considered to be "hours", then the tasks 
should take 4 hours in total and so far I've put in 1.5 hours (45 min 
on item1 and 45 min on item2).  


Doug


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> I know it's more work, but I kind of like the idea of different 
> detail views based on what the task is being used for. If your 
using 
> it for notes you don't need all the PM stuff, and if your using it 
as 
> a project outline you don't need a lot of text. For the % complete 
it 
> sounds like another field for hours/ task might be necessary, then 
> the overall progress would be Sum(hours * %age)/total hours. I 
think 
> that would be along the PM norm. Of course then you could get into 
a 
> direct import/export to MS Project. Wouldn't that be slick. Just 
> my .02 worth.
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 ext555@p... wrote:
> > 
> > > Jeff, would a misc text field (that's been mentioned 
previously) 
> with 
> > > a sum total per item level handle this? When this was first 
> brought 
> > > up as  a possibility, I asked if this would meet my need to 
> estimate 
> > > the time required to complete a list of items etc. 
> > 
> > 	For time estimates, yes (see below); however, for weighting, I
> > don't think it would be sufficient..
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > > 
> > > just a thought, 
> > > 
> > > Paul 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 doug809@h... wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I just registered today and wanted to say thanks for 
creating 
> > > such a 
> > > > > great program!
> > > > 
> > > > 	Thanks for trying it out :)
> > > > 
> > > > > Stop me if someone has requested this feature before :), 
but 
> it 
> > > would 
> > > > > really help me with project management. (I couldn't find 
> anything 
> > > by 
> > > > > searching the archives so I thought I'd ask). 
> > > > 
> > > > 	This has been mentioned before, but I think its been 
a long
> > > > while..
> > > > 
> > > > > The visual progress bars in Shadow are one of my favourite 
> > > features, 
> > > > > but as it stands now, they don't seem to allow any kind 
> > > > > of "weighting" of the subtasks.  For example, I tend to 
think 
> of 
> > > > > progress more in terms of time (e.g. project will take 3 
days 
> and 
> > > I 
> > > > > am 50% done) instead of thinking in terms of number of 
> subtasks 
> > > (e.g. 
> > > > > this project has 8 subtasks, 4 of which are done so 
therefore 
> the 
> > > > > project is 50% complete).  
> > > > 
> > > > 	This is a tough problem -- how to handle implicit 
progress, or
> > > > better weighting, or better time control .. all while keeping 
> Shadow
> > > > generic enough to be used by everyone.
> > > > 
> > > > 	I'm half tempted to make a list pref to chose the 
style of 
> > > details
> > > > box shown, to allow you to say "don't show me this project 
> crap, 
> > > just show
> > > > me text", or the reverse "give me all the project details, 
with 
> > > small text
> > > > areas". *shrug*. Anyway,
> > > > 
> > > > 	Implications:
> > > > 
> > > > 	1) UI change; where to put the weight value. Is it 
desirable 
> > > by
> > > > everyone? Would it clumsy up things?
> > > > 
> > > > 	2) Can the weight be implmented as such:
> > > > 
> > > > 		i) Right now, Shadow (off the top of my head) 
counts 
> > > up
> > > > the number of items below a parent, and their total %age sum, 
> and 
> > > divides
> > > > the sum by count to obtain the %age.
> > > > 
> > > > 		ii) Can it now do the same, except multiply 
the items 
> > > %age
> > > > by weighting? ie:
> > > > 
> > > > 	item1	75%	weight 1
> > > > 	item2	25%	weight 3
> > > > 
> > > > 	Old calc: ( 75 + 25 ) / 2 = 50%
> > > > 	Proposed calc: ( 75 + ( 25 * 3 ) ) / 2 = 75%
> > > > 
> > > > 	If that is correct, it should not be too difficult an 
> > > operation to
> > > > implement (ie: Simple update to the existing logic, and 
> passive, 
> > > since all
> > > > weights by default would be 1)
> > > > 
> > > > > It would be great if there was a field (at the subtask or 
> child 
> > > > > level) allowing for expected task duration (e.g. 4 hours).  
> It 
> > > > > wouldn't even have to be in the main view, just having it 
> > > available 
> > > > > in the details would do the job.  Then, somewhere at the 
> parent 
> > > > > level, it would show the total time for all the subtasks.
> > > > 
> > > > 	I'll likely be adding a "misc field" to allow for 
things like
> > > > this, so you can enter a number or text or whatever you like 
> into a 
> > > small
> > > > text field.
> > > > 
> > > > 		jeff
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
> own 
> > > micro
> > > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
> mean,
> > > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he 
calculate 
> he 
> > > is?"
> > > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1730

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 7:51am
Subject: Summary

 
Does someone know if this is possible to do?

I got a number of lists in Shadow, many items which are dated, some that are
not. I usually open each list and check the dates and then link them to the todo
database when it's time to do something about them ... but this takes some time.
What I would like to do is to get an overview of all items in all, or some,
lists that have a start date or target date (or undated) within the next 5 days
or 7 days or ...

As far as I know this isn't possible to do in Shadow but is there some other way
of doing it? (I of course would like to see this in Shadow but ...)

                    jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
1731

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 8:41am
Subject: RE: Summary

 
This would be top priority for me - much more than the push to make
Shadow a fully featured project management tool!
 
Dave 
 
 
 I got a number of lists in Shadow, many items which are dated, some
that are
not. I usually open each list and check the dates and then link them to
the todo
database when it's time to do something about them ... but this takes
some time.
What I would like to do is to get an overview of all items in all, or
some,
lists that have a start date or target date (or undated) within the next
5 days
or 7 days or ...

As far as I know this isn't possible to do in Shadow but is there some
other way
of doing it? (I of course would like to see this in Shadow but ...)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1732

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 11:43am
Subject: Re: Summary

 
On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Jan Erik [iso-8859-1] Moström wrote:

> of doing it? (I of course would like to see this in Shadow but ...)

	Its been on my list for a long time, but pretty far down :P

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1733

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 2:19pm
Subject: Another Odd Request

 
Jeff,
Is it possible to leave Shadow for another application and have the 
Details view remain open? For example, I have a details view up and I 
go to the datebook (using the button), and then return to Shadow 
(which is on my ToDo button) and have the Detail View still open 
instead of the List view.

The reason I ask is that I started my second trial period of 
Actioneer, because I really like the idea of one place to enter all 
ToDo's Appointments, or Memos. But I find Actioneer rather limiting 
since you can't create a dated todo without also creating an 
appointment, only works with MemoPad as opposed to CryptoPad, etc. 
Then I thought, why worry about another application when I can do 
this right from Shadow! I created a list called "unfiled" and leave 
it open. Then when I'm in a rush I just open a new task enter what I 
need, and I can put it anywhere by linking. This would be even 
quicker if I could have a detail view already open when I go to 
Shadow. Has anyone else thought of this? Is this possible?

Scott
1734

From: scrap-n-chat@h...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 2:37pm
Subject: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., doug809@h... wrote:

I think I would really like a feature like this.  At least, it would 
help me see how I'm doing on one of the projects I'm working on.  
I'll explain, and maybe it'll make sense.

I'm going through a bunch of boxes from our last move.  I think there 
are 46 total, but the # isn't important... just that it was a lot of 
items to put as subtasks, and I found it a pain in the bucket to 
scroll (tapping the little arrows only moves you up or down one item 
at a time).  So, I ended up demoting the boxes I've completed under 
a "completed boxes" (that was a stretch, right?) heading.  Only now, 
the parent item "Go through boxes" shows overall progress as 0%, even 
through I'm nearly 50% done, because it weights the "completed boxes" 
item the same as all the individual boxes I have yet to go through.

So, if the parent item could use as it's weight the total of all the 
children's weights (automatically updating with the addition of new 
children), this would work out well for me.  The "completed boxes" 
item would end up with a weight of (currently) 21, and continue to go 
up as I moved each completed box under it, compared to the remaining 
individual boxes, which would each have a weight of 1.

Leisel
1735

From: scrap-n-chat@h...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 3:09pm
Subject: Broken links problem

 
I created a bunch of to do links in one list, moved the to do's from 
unfiled to their appropriate category, and then moved the Shadow 
items into another list.  All the links showed up as broken.  Was 
this a fluke? Should I have done this in a different order to keep 
the links from breaking?  Is there any way to reattach the links?  I 
know if I tried to recreate them, I would end up just duplicating the 
to dos.

And, I guess this would be a feature request, Jeff... if there isn't 
currently a way to re-attach the links, could this please be 
something you add... the possibility to link to existing to do items, 
in addition to creation (copy to database) and creation+linking (link 
to database)?

Leisel
1736

From: ext555@p...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 3:17pm
Subject: Re: Another Odd Request (actioneer O.T.)

 
Actioneer can create a dated to-do without creating an appt. 
It' in the pref's section. 

hope that helps
Paul 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> Jeff,
> Is it possible to leave Shadow for another application and have the 
> Details view remain open? For example, I have a details view up and 
I 
> go to the datebook (using the button), and then return to Shadow 
> (which is on my ToDo button) and have the Detail View still open 
> instead of the List view.
> 
> The reason I ask is that I started my second trial period of 
> Actioneer, because I really like the idea of one place to enter all 
> ToDo's Appointments, or Memos. But I find Actioneer rather limiting 
> since you can't create a dated todo without also creating an 
> appointment, only works with MemoPad as opposed to CryptoPad, etc. 
> Then I thought, why worry about another application when I can do 
> this right from Shadow! I created a list called "unfiled" and leave 
> it open. Then when I'm in a rush I just open a new task enter what 
I 
> need, and I can put it anywhere by linking. This would be even 
> quicker if I could have a detail view already open when I go to 
> Shadow. Has anyone else thought of this? Is this possible?
> 
> Scott
1737

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:07pm
Subject: RE: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
Why not just have a tasklist? You complete a box and tick the box (use
the filter to conceal completed items to make it easy to move around).
Your parent item "Go through boxes" or whatever progress meter captures
your progress. Or am I misunderstanding you?
 
Oh, and don't scroll - use the find button on longer lists. Works great.
 
Cheers
 
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: scrap-n-chat@h... [mailto:scrap-n-chat@h...] 
Sent: 24 July 2001 15:38
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., doug809@h... wrote:

I think I would really like a feature like this.  At least, it would 
help me see how I'm doing on one of the projects I'm working on.  
I'll explain, and maybe it'll make sense.

I'm going through a bunch of boxes from our last move.  I think there 
are 46 total, but the # isn't important... just that it was a lot of 
items to put as subtasks, and I found it a pain in the bucket to 
scroll (tapping the little arrows only moves you up or down one item 
at a time).  So, I ended up demoting the boxes I've completed under 
a "completed boxes" (that was a stretch, right?) heading.  Only now, 
the parent item "Go through boxes" shows overall progress as 0%, even 
through I'm nearly 50% done, because it weights the "completed boxes" 
item the same as all the individual boxes I have yet to go through.

So, if the parent item could use as it's weight the total of all the 
children's weights (automatically updating with the addition of new 
children), this would work out well for me.  The "completed boxes" 
item would end up with a weight of (currently) 21, and continue to go 
up as I moved each completed box under it, compared to the remaining 
individual boxes, which would each have a weight of 1.

Leisel


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shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1738

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 4:20pm
Subject: Re: (actioneer O.T.)

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., ext555@p... wrote:
> Actioneer can create a dated to-do without creating an appt. 
> It' in the pref's section. 
> 
> hope that helps
> Paul 
> 

Paul,

I can see how you can create an appt. without a dated todo, but I 
don't see where there is a place to add a date to the todo without it 
also going to date book. Or do I have to enter the date in the text 
as a keyword?
1739

From: scrap-n-chat@h...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 5:31pm
Subject: Re: Request: time estimates / *weights*

 
Dave...

Thanks, I'm a new user, and hadn't used the filters at all yet.  That 
certainly solved the one problem.

Leisel

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "David Keltie" <dave@z...> wrote:
> Why not just have a tasklist? You complete a box and tick the box 
(use
> the filter to conceal completed items to make it easy to move 
around).
> Your parent item "Go through boxes" or whatever progress meter 
captures
> your progress. Or am I misunderstanding you?
>  
> Oh, and don't scroll - use the find button on longer lists. Works 
great.
>  
> Cheers
>  
> Dave
1740

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 6:51pm
Subject: Re: Another Odd Request

 
On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 smasters@a... wrote:

> Is it possible to leave Shadow for another application and have the 
> Details view remain open? For example, I have a details view up and I 
> go to the datebook (using the button), and then return to Shadow 
> (which is on my ToDo button) and have the Detail View still open 
> instead of the List view.

	It is possible, but its not something I want to worry about right
now .. (ie: To keep it open means to save what is in it somewhere, so that
when you come back to Shadow it could pull up what you had in it. ie: You
may have editted the text and links of an item, but not yet hit OK to save
them, so Shadow can't just stick them into the item. As it is right now,
it implicitly hits OK or CANCEL as appropriate ..)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1741

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 6:55pm
Subject: Re: Broken links problem

 
On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 scrap-n-chat@h... wrote:

> I created a bunch of to do links in one list, moved the to do's from 
> unfiled to their appropriate category, and then moved the Shadow 
> items into another list.  All the links showed up as broken.  Was 
> this a fluke? Should I have done this in a different order to keep 
> the links from breaking?  Is there any way to reattach the links?  I 
> know if I tried to recreate them, I would end up just duplicating the 
> to dos.

	Changing the category of an item should not break a link; moving
them around in Shadow should maintain the link (or clear it at worst case
.. certainly woudln't point it somewhere broken!). So the link breakage
must have occurred in the other app .. you must have moved them in an odd
way, or the app did something braindamaged. (ie: The category of a todo is
stored as part of the todo; if you just change the category part Shadow
is still pointing to the todo itself. The link is only broken if you
remove that todo object and create a new one. If the app you used destroys
the old one and creates a new one in the new category, they're
braindamaged). So I'm not sure what happened..

	What app did you use to handle the todos? What operations in
Shadow?

> And, I guess this would be a feature request, Jeff... if there isn't 
> currently a way to re-attach the links, could this please be 
> something you add... the possibility to link to existing to do items, 
> in addition to creation (copy to database) and creation+linking (link 
> to database)?

	1) Delete item
	2) New From ..

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1742

From: aschell2000@h...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 7:23pm
Subject: completed todo date question

 
I'm a new user, registered yesturday.  Just wondering about todo 
dates.  I have an item in shadow linked to a todo in datebk4. The due 
date on the todo was yesturday, so it's now one day overdue.  If I 
now check it off in shadow, then go to it in datebk 4, it has been 
checked off and moved back to the original due date, yet the finish 
date in shadow shows today as it should.  Now in datebk 4 it no 
longer gives me an accurate view as to when it was completed.  Is 
this normal behavior and I'm just doing something wrong?  Thanks.
1743

From: ext555@p...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 7:49pm
Subject: Re: (actioneer O.T.)

 
Since you were referring to shadow, I'm assuming you mean the 
actioneer palm app? if so, you go to "options" "prefs" and un-
check "dated to-do to datebook". 
In the windows app the keyword "due" must be used to let actioneer 
know the dated item is a task and not a appt. 

hope that clears it up ,
Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., ext555@p... wrote:
> > Actioneer can create a dated to-do without creating an appt. 
> > It' in the pref's section. 
> > 
> > hope that helps
> > Paul 
> > 
> 
> Paul,
> 
> I can see how you can create an appt. without a dated todo, but I 
> don't see where there is a place to add a date to the todo without 
it 
> also going to date book. Or do I have to enter the date in the text 
> as a keyword?
1744

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 7:51pm
Subject: Re: completed todo date question

 
On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:

> I'm a new user, registered yesturday.  Just wondering about todo 
> dates.  I have an item in shadow linked to a todo in datebk4. The due 
> date on the todo was yesturday, so it's now one day overdue.  If I 
> now check it off in shadow, then go to it in datebk 4, it has been 
> checked off and moved back to the original due date, yet the finish 
> date in shadow shows today as it should.  Now in datebk 4 it no 
> longer gives me an accurate view as to when it was completed.  Is 
> this normal behavior and I'm just doing something wrong?  Thanks.

	Woa, too much information in a small space ;)

	A linked item syncronizes data where possible; when you create a
todo item, Shadow copies the item target date into the todo, and
syncronizes it. A palm todo has only one date -- it does not have a
completion date and a target date, as it does in Shadow. So necessarily,
when shadow creates and syncs the todo to Shadow, it syncs the target
date.

	So..

	Create shadow ite, assign date, link to todo.
	In todo, you check it off, and the date becomes date of completion
	Shadow picks up this date and syncs it to the *target* date (not
		Shadow finish date)

	The reverse..

	Check it off in Shadow, finish date becomes today, target stays
the same.
	Datebk4 will show the item being checked, but the date will still
be the target date in shadow (unchanged).

	Is this your confusion?

	IF so, the problem is that the todo app really only has one date,
so workign with multiple dates becomes a pain :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1745

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 8:12pm
Subject: RE: completed todo date question

 
>I'm a new user, registered yesturday.  Just wondering about todo
>dates.  I have an item in shadow linked to a todo in datebk4. The due
>date on the todo was yesturday, so it's now one day overdue.  If I
>now check it off in shadow, then go to it in datebk 4, it has been
>checked off and moved back to the original due date, yet the finish
>date in shadow shows today as it should.  Now in datebk 4 it no
>longer gives me an accurate view as to when it was completed.  Is
>this normal behavior and I'm just doing something wrong?  Thanks.

Open up the built-in todo app and tap the 'show' button.  Check the box next
to 'Record Completion Date' and that should fix your problem in DB4.

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************
1746

From: smasters@a...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 8:29pm
Subject: Re: Another Odd Request

 
Jeff,

I guess this goes in the "someday maybe" file, which is perfectly 
fine. It's not that great of a priority for me, it just eliminates a 
couple of taps. Thanks for the reply.

Scott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
 	It is possible, but its not something I want to worry about 
right
now .. (ie: To keep it open means to save what is in it somewhere, so 
that
when you come back to Shadow it could pull up what you had in it. ie: 
You
may have editted the text and links of an item, but not yet hit OK to 
save
them, so Shadow can't just stick them into the item. As it is right 
now,
it implicitly hits OK or CANCEL as appropriate ..)
 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1747

From: aschell2000@h...
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 8:46pm
Subject: Re: completed todo date question

 
Yeah that's my confusion.  So if I want to make sure an overdue item 
or a done early item stays on the day actually completed in datebook, 
I must check it complete in that application, not in shadow.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:
> 
> > I'm a new user, registered yesturday.  Just wondering about todo 
> > dates.  I have an item in shadow linked to a todo in datebk4. The 
due 
> > date on the todo was yesturday, so it's now one day overdue.  If 
I 
> > now check it off in shadow, then go to it in datebk 4, it has 
been 
> > checked off and moved back to the original due date, yet the 
finish 
> > date in shadow shows today as it should.  Now in datebk 4 it no 
> > longer gives me an accurate view as to when it was completed.  Is 
> > this normal behavior and I'm just doing something wrong?  Thanks.
> 
> 	Woa, too much information in a small space ;)
> 
> 	A linked item syncronizes data where possible; when you 
create a
> todo item, Shadow copies the item target date into the todo, and
> syncronizes it. A palm todo has only one date -- it does not have a
> completion date and a target date, as it does in Shadow. So 
necessarily,
> when shadow creates and syncs the todo to Shadow, it syncs the 
target
> date.
> 
> 	So..
> 
> 	Create shadow ite, assign date, link to todo.
> 	In todo, you check it off, and the date becomes date of 
completion
> 	Shadow picks up this date and syncs it to the *target* date 
(not
> 		Shadow finish date)
> 
> 	The reverse..
> 
> 	Check it off in Shadow, finish date becomes today, target 
stays
> the same.
> 	Datebk4 will show the item being checked, but the date will 
still
> be the target date in shadow (unchanged).
> 
> 	Is this your confusion?
> 
> 	IF so, the problem is that the todo app really only has one 
date,
> so workign with multiple dates becomes a pain :/
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1748

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 24, 2001 9:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: completed todo date question

 
On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:

> Yeah that's my confusion.  So if I want to make sure an overdue item 
> or a done early item stays on the day actually completed in datebook, 
> I must check it complete in that application, not in shadow.

	Right; when you check it, Shadow ill pick up the check and adjust
the target date to fit the date of the item. Its one of those things that
has to be due to the way the palm todo apps work :/

		jeff

> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm a new user, registered yesturday.  Just wondering about todo 
> > > dates.  I have an item in shadow linked to a todo in datebk4. The 
> due 
> > > date on the todo was yesturday, so it's now one day overdue.  If 
> I 
> > > now check it off in shadow, then go to it in datebk 4, it has 
> been 
> > > checked off and moved back to the original due date, yet the 
> finish 
> > > date in shadow shows today as it should.  Now in datebk 4 it no 
> > > longer gives me an accurate view as to when it was completed.  Is 
> > > this normal behavior and I'm just doing something wrong?  Thanks.
> > 
> > 	Woa, too much information in a small space ;)
> > 
> > 	A linked item syncronizes data where possible; when you 
> create a
> > todo item, Shadow copies the item target date into the todo, and
> > syncronizes it. A palm todo has only one date -- it does not have a
> > completion date and a target date, as it does in Shadow. So 
> necessarily,
> > when shadow creates and syncs the todo to Shadow, it syncs the 
> target
> > date.
> > 
> > 	So..
> > 
> > 	Create shadow ite, assign date, link to todo.
> > 	In todo, you check it off, and the date becomes date of 
> completion
> > 	Shadow picks up this date and syncs it to the *target* date 
> (not
> > 		Shadow finish date)
> > 
> > 	The reverse..
> > 
> > 	Check it off in Shadow, finish date becomes today, target 
> stays
> > the same.
> > 	Datebk4 will show the item being checked, but the date will 
> still
> > be the target date in shadow (unchanged).
> > 
> > 	Is this your confusion?
> > 
> > 	IF so, the problem is that the todo app really only has one 
> date,
> > so workign with multiple dates becomes a pain :/
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1749

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2001 7:55am
Subject: Re: Summary

 
> What I would like to do is to get an overview of all items in
> all, or some, lists that have a start date or target date (or
> undated) within the next 5 days or 7 days or ...

There's no way to do this in Shadow right now, but as a compromise 
you could use the "This week's target/starting items" filters. These 
will allow to to look ahead within the current week. Not exactly what 
you want, but better than nothing.

Jeff: maybe you could add a few more of these filters until a more 
flexible solution pops up at the top of your priority list?

Roy.
1750

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 25, 2001 11:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Summary

 
On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> > What I would like to do is to get an overview of all items in
> > all, or some, lists that have a start date or target date (or
> > undated) within the next 5 days or 7 days or ...
> 
> There's no way to do this in Shadow right now, but as a compromise 
> you could use the "This week's target/starting items" filters. These 
> will allow to to look ahead within the current week. Not exactly what 
> you want, but better than nothing.
> 
> Jeff: maybe you could add a few more of these filters until a more 
> flexible solution pops up at the top of your priority list?

	Maybe. Its the "in all or some lists" part that really hurts ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1751

From: Paulo Marino  <prsantos@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:01am
Subject: Shadow Desktop

 
Hi,

Where can I find the Desktop Application for Shadow ?

Tks

Paulo
1752

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:59am
Subject: Re: Shadow Desktop

 
On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, Paulo Marino wrote:

> Where can I find the Desktop Application for Shadow ?

	Shadow desktop is still in early alpha (summer has left me little
free time); the last alpha was timed so it would (and has) expire (so I
can keep down the number of versions peopel use, since following up on a
dozen alpha versions can drive a man nuts :P)  Another version will be out
soon (week or so?) and I'll put a longer expirey on it so as to not have
it run down too early..

	At any rate, those interested should join shadow-test for early
alphas, or shadow-desktop for betas (once it gets to that stage)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1753

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:21pm
Subject: Re: ShadowPlan

 
Copied to shadow-discuss since it has some useful info..

> I realize that you are focused on the home front this summer rather than
> shadow Plan - A well balanced life is a very good thing. (Hope your deck is
> coming along nicely.)

	Went for a patio instead of a deck.. backyard is a bit smallish
for a deck. Just finished the patio, with a nice golden brown pea-stone
slab base, so it looks like a sandy beach sort of arrangement. Just have
to build some boxes, move the air conditioner, put some trees in.. I find
after software (very sbtract), using your hands to do something physical
is very refreshing :)

> When you do turn your eye toward ShadowPlan, can you post a new install for

	Shadow Plan is under constant development.. its slowed down a bit
for summer, but by no means has halted. 1.5.13 alpha is out, and the next
alpha for the desktop is only a week or two away..

> the alpha desktop version that is no longer expired?  If you are not
> accepting issue reports for this version, I wont send any, but I would love
> to check it out.  I can't wait for the first version.

	Theres a lot of issues in that first version; sadly, its hard for
me to build it again due to having changed the codebase a lot (invisible
changes to you, but large changes for me). Supporting lanhguage slike
Hebrew and Chinese across many platforms is messing with my head :P

	Hopefully a new alpha in (say) 2 weeks..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1754

From: scrap-n-chat@h...
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2001 6:31pm
Subject: Re: Broken links problem

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	Changing the category of an item should not break a link; 
moving
> them around in Shadow should maintain the link (or clear it at 
worst case
> .. certainly woudln't point it somewhere broken!). So the link 
breakage
> must have occurred in the other app .. you must have moved them in 
an odd
> way, or the app did something braindamaged. (ie: The category of a 
todo is
> stored as part of the todo; if you just change the category part 
Shadow
> is still pointing to the todo itself. The link is only broken if you
> remove that todo object and create a new one. If the app you used 
destroys
> the old one and creates a new one in the new category, they're
> braindamaged). So I'm not sure what happened..
> 
> 	What app did you use to handle the todos? What operations in
> Shadow?

It was just the plain old todo list that comes with the palm OS.  Let 
me see if I can remember exactly the steps I took... I was working in 
a list I call "! Inbox".  I had had it as just a notes list, but 
changed it to custom so I could add the todo link box column and the 
link arrow column.  Then I picked the items I wanted to create todo's 
for and tapped the todo boxes.  I THINK that's when I changed over to 
the todo app and changed the categories for each item... I did it for 
all the items, but the new categories were not all the same, and I 
don't think I created/changed any categories.  Then I went back to 
Shadow Plan, set the clip thing to hold many, and cut all the items 
from the inbox that had the todo box checked.  I went to another list 
called "Single Action Items" and pasted the whole clip in.  I didn't 
notice it then, so I'm not sure if that's when the breakage happened, 
but the next time I went to add something (in the same manner, as far 
as I remember), ALL of those items I'd put in before had broken 
links.  The new item(s) have not had that problem.

Leisel
1755

From: scrap-n-chat@h...
Date: Thu Jul 26, 2001 6:35pm
Subject: Re: Another Odd Request

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., smasters@a... wrote:
> Jeff,
> Is it possible to leave Shadow for another application and have the 
> Details view remain open? 

> Has anyone else thought of this? Is this possible?
> 
> Scott

Scott...

Yes, that's something I'd meant to ask about, too.  It drives me nuts 
to be entering/editing something, and need to go to another app. to 
check on some bit of information I need to do it right, but when I 
come back, I have to re-open the entry view.  And I do seem to do it 
often.

Leisel
1756

From: pfieldho_99@y...
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:31am
Subject: Kudos Jeff!!

 
I just recently bought ShadowPlan because I was tired as %$&#(@ of 
talking to the people @ Aportis about BrainForest and not finding 
anyone who was even willing to pretend they were interested in what a 
user wanted out of the thing. I came on to this group to ask some 
questions and make some suggestions but I think I'll wait for a while 
until I know ShadowPlan a little bit better. 
But what I did want to say was this: Jeff you have impressed me with 
how you are working with all these users. It must drive you batty at 
times. Especially when different folks are making suggestions that 
would take things in different directions.
1757

From: John Lill  <johnlill2@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 10:54am
Subject: Re: completed todo date question

 
Jeff,

See message #594 on this topic. Is what you proposed there still a 
possibility? As I recall, several people also requested that feature. 
That would really enhance Shadow for me.
Thanks for a GREAT product!!

John
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:
> 
> > Yeah that's my confusion.  So if I want to make sure an overdue 
item 
> > or a done early item stays on the day actually completed in 
datebook, 
> > I must check it complete in that application, not in shadow.
> 
> 	Right; when you check it, Shadow ill pick up the check and 
adjust
> the target date to fit the date of the item. Its one of those 
things that
> has to be due to the way the palm todo apps work :/
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I'm a new user, registered yesturday.  Just wondering about 
todo 
> > > > dates.  I have an item in shadow linked to a todo in datebk4. 
The 
> > due 
> > > > date on the todo was yesturday, so it's now one day overdue.  
If 
> > I 
> > > > now check it off in shadow, then go to it in datebk 4, it has 
> > been 
> > > > checked off and moved back to the original due date, yet the 
> > finish 
> > > > date in shadow shows today as it should.  Now in datebk 4 it 
no 
> > > > longer gives me an accurate view as to when it was 
completed.  Is 
> > > > this normal behavior and I'm just doing something wrong?  
Thanks.
> > > 
> > > 	Woa, too much information in a small space ;)
> > > 
> > > 	A linked item syncronizes data where possible; when you 
> > create a
> > > todo item, Shadow copies the item target date into the todo, and
> > > syncronizes it. A palm todo has only one date -- it does not 
have a
> > > completion date and a target date, as it does in Shadow. So 
> > necessarily,
> > > when shadow creates and syncs the todo to Shadow, it syncs the 
> > target
> > > date.
> > > 
> > > 	So..
> > > 
> > > 	Create shadow ite, assign date, link to todo.
> > > 	In todo, you check it off, and the date becomes date of 
> > completion
> > > 	Shadow picks up this date and syncs it to the *target* date 
> > (not
> > > 		Shadow finish date)
> > > 
> > > 	The reverse..
> > > 
> > > 	Check it off in Shadow, finish date becomes today, target 
> > stays
> > > the same.
> > > 	Datebk4 will show the item being checked, but the date will 
> > still
> > > be the target date in shadow (unchanged).
> > > 
> > > 	Is this your confusion?
> > > 
> > > 	IF so, the problem is that the todo app really only has one 
> > date,
> > > so workign with multiple dates becomes a pain :/
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own 
> > micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he 
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1758

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 0:00pm
Subject: Re: Kudos Jeff!!

 
On Fri, 27 Jul 2001 pfieldho_99@y... wrote:

> I just recently bought ShadowPlan because I was tired as %$&#(@ of 
> talking to the people @ Aportis about BrainForest and not finding 
> anyone who was even willing to pretend they were interested in what a 
> user wanted out of the thing. I came on to this group to ask some 
> questions and make some suggestions but I think I'll wait for a while 
> until I know ShadowPlan a little bit better. 
> But what I did want to say was this: Jeff you have impressed me with 
> how you are working with all these users. It must drive you batty at 
> times. Especially when different folks are making suggestions that 
> would take things in different directions.

	Thanks :) As I see it, software that exists to make your life
easier must necessarily evolve; its not for me (or not just for me ;), its
for everyone to use (or else who am I targetting?)  So it has to match the
needs of the users, and it has to evolve as the environment, platform and
audience evolve. Its rough to keep up, but hopefully I do okay. The
software is pretty good and solid now, so sometimes a change is difficult
or undesirable, but often a change is good, so the tough part is wading
through to figure out which are the ones everyone wants and trying to get
therm in there sensibly for everyone.. it does make you crazy sometimes :)

	Its slowed down now.. I only get about 20 suggestions a day now
.. used to be 50 or 100 or more :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1759

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 27, 2001 0:11pm
Subject: Re: Re: completed todo date question

 
On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, John Lill wrote:

> See message #594 on this topic. Is what you proposed there still a 
> possibility? As I recall, several people also requested that feature. 
> That would really enhance Shadow for me.

	For others reference, I quote it:

Currently:

	Always:
		Target date <-> Todo date

	The proposal is:

	On import of changes (when a shadow list is opened):
		If todo checked:
			update finish date instead of target date
		If todo unchecked:
			update target date

	On export of changes (when a shadow list is saved):
		If todo checked (completed):
			update todo's date to finish date
		If todo unchecked:
			update todo's date to target date

	Now, note the next line:

	"Seems complex to me :P IS there any gotchas here?"

	I left it to a vote, and don't recall see many people say much
other than I think two of you.. I also know that I can't make a
yahoogroups vote out of it, since that always results in a "yes, add
it!" since people like to add things :)

	I guess the best I can do is add a pref for this.. Its not a
difficult change, so I can do it pretty quickly I guess..

> Thanks for a GREAT product!!
> 
> John
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:
> > 
> > > Yeah that's my confusion.  So if I want to make sure an overdue 
> item 
> > > or a done early item stays on the day actually completed in 
> datebook, 
> > > I must check it complete in that application, not in shadow.
> > 
> > 	Right; when you check it, Shadow ill pick up the check and 
> adjust
> > the target date to fit the date of the item. Its one of those 
> things that
> > has to be due to the way the palm todo apps work :/
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 aschell2000@h... wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I'm a new user, registered yesturday.  Just wondering about 
> todo 
> > > > > dates.  I have an item in shadow linked to a todo in datebk4. 
> The 
> > > due 
> > > > > date on the todo was yesturday, so it's now one day overdue.  
> If 
> > > I 
> > > > > now check it off in shadow, then go to it in datebk 4, it has 
> > > been 
> > > > > checked off and moved back to the original due date, yet the 
> > > finish 
> > > > > date in shadow shows today as it should.  Now in datebk 4 it 
> no 
> > > > > longer gives me an accurate view as to when it was 
> completed.  Is 
> > > > > this normal behavior and I'm just doing something wrong?  
> Thanks.
> > > > 
> > > > 	Woa, too much information in a small space ;)
> > > > 
> > > > 	A linked item syncronizes data where possible; when you 
> > > create a
> > > > todo item, Shadow copies the item target date into the todo, and
> > > > syncronizes it. A palm todo has only one date -- it does not 
> have a
> > > > completion date and a target date, as it does in Shadow. So 
> > > necessarily,
> > > > when shadow creates and syncs the todo to Shadow, it syncs the 
> > > target
> > > > date.
> > > > 
> > > > 	So..
> > > > 
> > > > 	Create shadow ite, assign date, link to todo.
> > > > 	In todo, you check it off, and the date becomes date of 
> > > completion
> > > > 	Shadow picks up this date and syncs it to the *target* date 
> > > (not
> > > > 		Shadow finish date)
> > > > 
> > > > 	The reverse..
> > > > 
> > > > 	Check it off in Shadow, finish date becomes today, target 
> > > stays
> > > > the same.
> > > > 	Datebk4 will show the item being checked, but the date will 
> > > still
> > > > be the target date in shadow (unchanged).
> > > > 
> > > > 	Is this your confusion?
> > > > 
> > > > 	IF so, the problem is that the todo app really only has one 
> > > date,
> > > > so workign with multiple dates becomes a pain :/
> > > > 
> > > > 		jeff
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
> own 
> > > micro
> > > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
> mean,
> > > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
> he 
> > > is?"
> > > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1760

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2001 1:56pm
Subject: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
How many people use this operation?

	There are some bugs related to it, and I'm thinking of just
removing it altogether. It could be a huge amount of work to make it so
that this operation can be kept around, and I really don't think many
people use it..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1761

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2001 2:05pm
Subject: Revert to Last? Needed? (additional)

 
I thought I would add one example of why its a pain :)

	A ToDo link is really two parts; (1) the todo link from the Shadow
item to the ToDo. This is Shadow stuff. (2) The ToDo database object that
your todo application can see. This is ToDo stuff.

	There is a pref, "Delete links when deleting item" or somesuch. If
that pref is not set, deleting an item simply removes it and its attached
link info and leaves linked database objects intact. If the pref is set,
and you delete a Shadow item with a todo link, the todo object is removed
from the database at the same time the Shadow object is removed.

	So consider..

	Add a todo link to an item. Save the file (Done, Save Now,
whatever)

	Making sure the pref above is set, Delete and confirm the item
with the link.

	At this time, the item is removed from Shadow and ToDo

	Revert to last.

	Shadows concept of space goes back to the last saved file; you
have an item with a todolink ... now broken. There is no todo object to be
linked to.

	Things are much worse for some operations, but this is a practical
example..

	To properly handle the Revert, I would need to restore the linked
object to existance in the ToDo database. But I cannot, since I do not
have a complete set of information about the Todo .. Shadow doesn't go
keeping copies of all the info in the other databases..

	So I cannot recreate it exactly as it was, and certainly can't
create a "mostly similar" one, and even have a hard time telling that it
needs to be created in the first place..

	So, due to paradox's like this, Revert to Last really needs to
go.. (sadly; it was so very cool when I first added it 8mo ago :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1762

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Sun Jul 29, 2001 4:57pm
Subject: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
On 2001-07-29 at 09:56, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   How many people use this operation?

Not me
        jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
1763

From: ext555@p...
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2001 0:23am
Subject: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
I don't use it either --

Paul 

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jan Erik Moström <lists@m...> wrote:
> On 2001-07-29 at 09:56, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> >   How many people use this operation?
> 
> Not me
>         jem
> --
> Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
> Free Elektron                      
http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
1764

From: kennymobley@b...
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2001 0:56am
Subject: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
Not me.

Kenny

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use this operation?
>
1765

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2001 5:37am
Subject: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
Well, I hate to go against the crowd, but I just used it the other 
day, when I accidentally dropped things in the wrong spot and, before 
realizing it, deleted the wrong item that had a ton of subs beneath 
it. The feature saved my butt, and I was *very* thankful for it, 
because a lot of (probably most other) apps don't have it.

But that's probably only the second time I've used it in about 6 
months.  If keeping it around means waiting a lot longer for things 
like tags or the desktop :-) , then I'm willing to part with it.

Greg

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use this operation?
> 
> 	There are some bugs related to it, and I'm thinking of just
> removing it altogether. It could be a huge amount of work to make 
it so
> that this operation can be kept around, and I really don't think 
many
> people use it..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1766

From: Patricia Emerick  <hisimage8@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:26am
Subject: Re:Revert to Last

 
I've never used revert to last. 

Patricia

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1767

From: Patricia Emerick  <hisimage8@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:29am
Subject: Recent Files on start up

 
Jeff, the new feature of the "recent files" list
popping up when I start my Prism with the Shadow hard
key is very very helpful.  Would it be hard to make
this happen, maybe a pref, each time I go into Shadow?
 It's so easy to dismiss it if I'm already in the
right file, and it's so great if I need to go to
another.  


Patricia

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1768

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2001 11:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> realizing it, deleted the wrong item that had a ton of subs beneath 
> it. The feature saved my butt, and I was *very* thankful for it, 
> because a lot of (probably most other) apps don't have it.

	See, thats the rub.. it is a useful concept.. but on a
resource-tight machine, its tough to keep things stable. ie: Deleting an
item deletesm it from the database. Reverting will not always be able to
bring it back, with some strange side effects :/  I'm thinking.. I coudl
leave it in there, as a "last ditch" operation, but with an alert that
comes up saying "warning, this could be ugly" sort of thing. But since
that woudl terrify people, I am thinking of removing it. It doesn't any
longer do what is expected, due to all the ties to other apps, and
sacrifices that have had to be made :/

> But that's probably only the second time I've used it in about 6 
> months.  If keeping it around means waiting a lot longer for things 
> like tags or the desktop :-) , then I'm willing to part with it.

	To fix the bugs related to Revert woudl take weeks, so yeah it
pushes things back :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1769

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 30, 2001 11:48am
Subject: Re: Recent Files on start up

 
On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Patricia Emerick wrote:

> Jeff, the new feature of the "recent files" list
> popping up when I start my Prism with the Shadow hard
> key is very very helpful.  Would it be hard to make
> this happen, maybe a pref, each time I go into Shadow?
>  It's so easy to dismiss it if I'm already in the
> right file, and it's so great if I need to go to
> another.  

	I try and avoid adding prefs for things which are one-tap actions
.. just too much extra little code if I cover all the bases. ie: On the
file selection screen, there is a Recent button to bring up the list .On
the list view screen, you canjust hit the hardkey to bring up the list, or
two taps (one for [V] popmenu, and one for Recent underneath it). I coudl
perhaps add a grafitti shortcut, but that'd be more work than using the
other existing methods, I think..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1770

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 0:33pm
Subject: dates in exports?

 
I've gotten a couple requests recently for dates in exports; I'd
forgotten this item (way down on my list).. how important is this to
people who use exports? (like exporting to DOC, for instance).

	I think right now you end up with:

	Item-title (Checked)
	Item note....

	I could make it..

	Item-title (Aim June-6-2001) (Checked)

	or somesuch ..

	But I don't know if I wish to support an import of it.. just a
quick change to put some dates in the exports..

	Hmmm..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1771

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 3:24pm
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
On 2001-07-31 at 08:33, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   Item-title (Aim June-6-2001) (Checked)

If you do, could you use a date format that is easy to parse for example
YYYY-MM-DD

                jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
1772

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 5:44pm
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Jan Erik [iso-8859-1] Moström wrote:

> >   Item-title (Aim June-6-2001) (Checked)
> 
> If you do, could you use a date format that is easy to parse for example
> YYYY-MM-DD

	Is there an *international* standard I can use? I'd rather use one
single date format on exports, that would make everyone happy..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1773

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 5:53pm
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Jan Erik Moström wrote:
> 
> > >   Item-title (Aim June-6-2001) (Checked)
> > 
> > If you do, could you use a date format that is easy to parse for example
> > YYYY-MM-DD
> 
> 	Is there an *international* standard I can use? I'd rather use one
> single date format on exports, that would make everyone happy..
> 

The format that Jan mentioned (YYYY-MM-DD) is the ISO standard for dates.
It might be the best to use.

Ken

-- 
><>   Ken Scott   kscott@p...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott   
                                                                      
              This is the day that the Lord has made;             
              I will rejoice and be glad in it!          -- Psalm 118:24
1774

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 5:56pm
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
On 2001-07-31 at 13:44, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   Is there an *international* standard I can use? I'd rather use one
> single date format on exports, that would make everyone happy..

Yep, YYYY-MM-DD ... I think it's an ISO standard.

            jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/
1775

From: Laura L Duncan  <LauraD@t...>
Date: Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
At 08:33 AM 7/31/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>I've gotten a couple requests recently for dates in exports; I'd
>forgotten this item (way down on my list).. how important is this to
>people who use exports?

The exporting of dates would be helpful to me, as I refer to the dates I've 
checked items off frequently.  The importing of dates matters little to me 
- even if it were available, I doubt I would use it.  I haven't requested 
the feature to export dates, because the desktop program may meet my needs 
better for reviewing data than exporting to doc.

Cheers,
Laura L Duncan
1776

From: jrs22@o...
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 1:42am
Subject: Questions on the "New From" Dialog

 
I'm having trouble with the "new from" dialog because it seems as 
though all my to-dos always show up.  What criteria are used to 
determine the week - creation date, due date, other?

Also, once a to-do has been imported, should I still be able to see 
that when I open the "new from" dialog?

TIA,
Janice
1777

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 1:51am
Subject: Re: Questions on the "New From" Dialog

 
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 jrs22@o... wrote:

> I'm having trouble with the "new from" dialog because it seems as 
> though all my to-dos always show up.  What criteria are used to 
> determine the week - creation date, due date, other?

	The ToDo's "date" (as seen in the various ToDo applications); if
no date is set, it always shows them, I think.

> Also, once a to-do has been imported, should I still be able to see 
> that when I open the "new from" dialog?

	Yes; you could have 50 Shadow lists, each with 500 items; it'd be
a huge amount of work for Shadow to find out if you've already imported a
given ToDo..

	I may add some linkage abilities on the desktop application, since
the desktop could have the horsepower for such things..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1778

From: doug809@h...
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 2:32am
Subject: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
Last week I would have said "sure, get rid of it", but it came in 
handy a couple of days ago.  I used the "Copy & Uncheck All Checked" 
command, thinking this would only apply to the highlighted branch.  
After I found out that the "uncheck" applied to all of the branches 
in my file, I lost of all of the progress indicators on my items 
(done, 40%, whatever).  The "revert" brought everything back and was 
a big relief.

Maybe you can keep the revert, but just limit the situations in which 
it can be used?  I know there are a lot of Windows apps that only 
provide an "undo" for certain situations (greying it out otherwise).

The other idea I thought of is maybe to do a delayed commit?  That 
is, if a user deletes a linked item, you could hide the item from the 
display, but give the user 30 seconds (or whatever) to use 
the "revert" command. If they don't use it within that time period, 
then just commit the delete (and grey out the revert command).

Doug

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:
> 
> > realizing it, deleted the wrong item that had a ton of subs 
beneath 
> > it. The feature saved my butt, and I was *very* thankful for it, 
> > because a lot of (probably most other) apps don't have it.
> 
> 	See, thats the rub.. it is a useful concept.. but on a
> resource-tight machine, its tough to keep things stable. ie: 
Deleting an
> item deletesm it from the database. Reverting will not always be 
able to
> bring it back, with some strange side effects :/  I'm thinking.. I 
coudl
> leave it in there, as a "last ditch" operation, but with an alert 
that
> comes up saying "warning, this could be ugly" sort of thing. But 
since
> that woudl terrify people, I am thinking of removing it. It doesn't 
any
> longer do what is expected, due to all the ties to other apps, and
> sacrifices that have had to be made :/
> 
> > But that's probably only the second time I've used it in about 6 
> > months.  If keeping it around means waiting a lot longer for 
things 
> > like tags or the desktop :-) , then I'm willing to part with it.
> 
> 	To fix the bugs related to Revert woudl take weeks, so yeah it
> pushes things back :P
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1779

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 2:40am
Subject: Re: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 doug809@h... wrote:

> Maybe you can keep the revert, but just limit the situations in which 
> it can be used?  I know there are a lot of Windows apps that only 
> provide an "undo" for certain situations (greying it out otherwise).
> 
> The other idea I thought of is maybe to do a delayed commit?  That 
> is, if a user deletes a linked item, you could hide the item from the 

	Its difficult to go to town with features on the Palm; rsources
are tight, and when working in other applications files it gets especially
so. A delayed action is interesting, but just not possible with the
current architecture ...

	Maybe I'll just have it pop up a big alert saying "WARNING! This
could be worse than it is now!" gut still leave the option available...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1780

From: rand_peter@h...
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 9:32am
Subject: Errors on importing memos

 
Hi,

I tried to following the formatting guidelines for importing items 
from Memo, but more often than not, I get a fatal error when I try to 
open the new outline in ShadowPlan. I now copy and paste in 
everything by hand in order to avoid these nasty fatal errors.

Any tips on how I can import from Memo more reliably, without fatal 
errors?

Peter
1781

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 11:50am
Subject: Re: Errors on importing memos

 
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 rand_peter@h... wrote:

> I tried to following the formatting guidelines for importing items 
> from Memo, but more often than not, I get a fatal error when I try to 
> open the new outline in ShadowPlan. I now copy and paste in 
> everything by hand in order to avoid these nasty fatal errors.
> 
> Any tips on how I can import from Memo more reliably, without fatal 
> errors?

	Any hacks turned on? If so, try disabling them.. so far, I don't
think I've heard of people getting Fatal's while just doing memo
imports.. so I'm willing to bet there is something else going on.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1782

From: freking@p...
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 0:55pm
Subject: Re: Questions on the "New From" Dialog

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 jrs22@o... wrote:

> 	Yes; you could have 50 Shadow lists, each with 500 items; it'd 
be
> a huge amount of work for Shadow to find out if you've already 
imported a
> given ToDo..

What about the option of searching only this outline I am working in? 
Show me only those ToDos that have not been linked *in this
outline*. I realize that this would still slow things up considerably, 
but that may be more feasible compared to trying to search all Shadow 
lists. Besides for my needs anyway, I would probably reserve such an 
action for once or twice a day when I am processing new ToDo items 
into my Shadow outline.

Frieda
1783

From: egroups@R...
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 1:04pm
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
Jeff,

I was one of those who requested dates in exports. Any format would 
work fine for me so I support the YYYYMMDD format. I *would* like to 
import dates although I would be happy to do that in the desktop app 
when it's ready. I also would like to choose which dates to export 
(Start, Target, Finish) and would be happy with a title followed by 
the date. So your example would be something like:
 	Item-title (Start 2001-06-06) (Target 2001-06-11) (Finish 
2001-06-15) (Checked)
In the export dialog I hope to see a checkbox for each date. If it's 
checked then it will be exported.

Thanks for all your good work.

Michael Rudnick

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	I've gotten a couple requests recently for dates in exports; 
I'd
> forgotten this item (way down on my list).. how important is this to
> people who use exports? (like exporting to DOC, for instance).
> 
> 	I think right now you end up with:
> 
> 	Item-title (Checked)
> 	Item note....
> 
> 	I could make it..
> 
> 	Item-title (Aim June-6-2001) (Checked)
> 
> 	or somesuch ..
> 
> 	But I don't know if I wish to support an import of it.. just a
> quick change to put some dates in the exports..
1784

From: rand_peter@h...
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 1:51pm
Subject: Re: Errors on importing memos

 
Hi Jeff, 

I disabled the hacks (X-Master), and still got a fatal exception when 
I tried to open the outline. 

The text I'm trying to import is a small list of dates, e.g.

010530 Bob
010623 Alice
010722 Jeff

etc.

Could that cause a problem? Maybe ShadowPlan is expected letters 
instead of numbers?

Peter



> Any hacks turned on? If so, try disabling them.. so far, I don't
> think I've heard of people getting Fatal's while just doing memo
> imports.. so I'm willing to bet there is something else going on.
> 
> 		jeff
1785

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 2:16pm
Subject: Re: Re: Questions on the "New From" Dialog

 
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 freking@p... wrote:

> What about the option of searching only this outline I am working in? 
> Show me only those ToDos that have not been linked *in this
> outline*. I realize that this would still slow things up considerably, 

	Thats the rub; I've not worked it out, but if your outline is a
hundred items long, and you've got 1000 todos to go through (entirely
common), its a tonne of work. In practice, it already goes through to
narrow by date, but then adding an extra 100 item checks for each todo
.. I'm betting no one would use the feature because it'd be too slow :(

	I have thought about adding some datebook4-like extension into the
note field of a todo, to mark that Shadow has "been there", so that it
could easily be skipped like you'd want. But I'm hesitant to add "yet
another" text extension marker into note fields.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1786

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 2:17pm
Subject: Re: Re: dates in exports?

 
Anyone from the UK, Germany, etc, able to represent those folks
here? if I exported dates in YYYY-MM-DD format, would everyone be happy?

		jeff

On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 egroups@R... wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
> I was one of those who requested dates in exports. Any format would 
> work fine for me so I support the YYYYMMDD format. I *would* like to 
> import dates although I would be happy to do that in the desktop app 
> when it's ready. I also would like to choose which dates to export 
> (Start, Target, Finish) and would be happy with a title followed by 
> the date. So your example would be something like:
>  	Item-title (Start 2001-06-06) (Target 2001-06-11) (Finish 
> 2001-06-15) (Checked)
> In the export dialog I hope to see a checkbox for each date. If it's 
> checked then it will be exported.
> 
> Thanks for all your good work.
> 
> Michael Rudnick
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	I've gotten a couple requests recently for dates in exports; 
> I'd
> > forgotten this item (way down on my list).. how important is this to
> > people who use exports? (like exporting to DOC, for instance).
> > 
> > 	I think right now you end up with:
> > 
> > 	Item-title (Checked)
> > 	Item note....
> > 
> > 	I could make it..
> > 
> > 	Item-title (Aim June-6-2001) (Checked)
> > 
> > 	or somesuch ..
> > 
> > 	But I don't know if I wish to support an import of it.. just a
> > quick change to put some dates in the exports..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1787

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Re: Errors on importing memos

 
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 rand_peter@h... wrote:

> I disabled the hacks (X-Master), and still got a fatal exception when 
> I tried to open the outline. 

	Hmm.

> The text I'm trying to import is a small list of dates, e.g.
> 010530 Bob
> 010623 Alice
> 010722 Jeff
> 
> Could that cause a problem? Maybe ShadowPlan is expected letters 
> instead of numbers?

	Are you using a recent Shadow? (ie: 1.5.6 for example?) Some older
version would sometimes see a number and try and use it for Priority, and
a Priority of 010530 would be "too big" :)  I think most recent ones (like
1.5.6, certainly 1.5.12 and later) should not have that fault. Even them
I'm stretching..

	I'll have to take a look and see what can arise.

	Your memo is exactly as above? Just a few rows, each with a number
and a name? No indentation? Whats on the first row?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1788

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Wed Aug 1, 2001 3:33pm
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
I'm from Holland and I can't speak for everyone, but I think that 
most would be happy. The YYYY-MM-DD format is free of international 
date formatting issues and allows for easy sorting and comparing. I 
think it is the most ideal choice.

Roy.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Anyone from the UK, Germany, etc, able to represent those
> folks here? if I exported dates in YYYY-MM-DD format, would
> everyone be happy?
1789

From: rand_peter@h...
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 7:24am
Subject: Re: dates in exports?

 
I agree with the below, the YYYY-MM-DD format is the only format that 
is unmistakable. I get a lot of American and British correspondence, 
and I never know whether 6/7/2001 means June 7th, 2001 or 6th July, 
2001. So I am also strongly in favor of the YYYY-MM-DD format, which 
has the additional advantage that it can be easily sorted in a 
spreadsheet.

Peter

"Roy van der Woning" <rvdw@x> wrote:
> I'm from Holland and I can't speak for everyone, but I think that 
> most would be happy. The YYYY-MM-DD format is free of international 
> date formatting issues and allows for easy sorting and comparing. I 
> think it is the most ideal choice.
1790

From: rand_peter@h...
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 7:28am
Subject: Re: Errors on importing memos

 
Hi Jeff,

> > The text I'm trying to import is a small list of dates, e.g.
> > 010530 Bob
> > 010623 Alice
> > 010722 Jeff

--
Are you using a recent Shadow? (ie: 1.5.6 for example?) 
--
Yes, version 1.5.6.

--
Your memo is exactly as above? Just a few rows, each with a number
and a name? No indentation? Whats on the first row?
---
Yes, like the above with a short text on the first row: "TestImport"

Thanks for looking into this.

Peter
1791

From: jacques@t...
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 3:18pm
Subject: Include linked memos in export ?

 
A lot of notes I write can be used several times. That's why I put the more 
I can my notes in built-in memopad : memos can be accessed / linked from 
many apps. Shadow notes (as any app notes) not yet.

But quite often I use Shadow to structure notes, and export them in a 
single doc. For that I must write a Shadow note, or copy an existing memo 
in a Shadow note.

1.
Would it be possible to link a memo to an item, and to have it printed (as 
a note) in the pretty doc export ?

2.
or,
To have a kind of "new from" memo : new note (for current item) imported 
from (an existing memo).

And I still ask :

3.
for a direct note entry system (first line of the note would become the new 
item name)

4.
and (easy I presume that one):
replace the non informative "Detail-Note" note entry title, by the first 
characters of the current item name !

***

Have you read on PalmGearNews BlueNomad proud quote of WordSmith being a 
"Palmtop-Pro Essentials" for Palm platform

WS is about 7th on that list, ShadowPlan is 3rd !!!

>"The "essentials" are software packages that
>we checked out and selected from about 12,000 Palm programs,
>are the top product in their domain,
>are tools for real professionals,
>shouldn't be missed on any Palm ."

Cheers,

Jacques

.
1792

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 0:48pm
Subject: Re: Include linked memos in export ?

 
On Thu, 2 Aug 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> A lot of notes I write can be used several times. That's why I put the more 
> I can my notes in built-in memopad : memos can be accessed / linked from 
> many apps. Shadow notes (as any app notes) not yet.
> 
> But quite often I use Shadow to structure notes, and export them in a 
> single doc. For that I must write a Shadow note, or copy an existing memo 
> in a Shadow note.

	You're doing some interesting things it sounds; you're requests
are unique and fascinating :)

> Would it be possible to link a memo to an item, and to have it printed (as 
> a note) in the pretty doc export ?

	Hmm. Hmmm. Possible yes .. not sure if many people would use this,
and I fear it could be a problem for Memo exports. A DOC export could
probably handle it. So far in Shadow they're the same sort of code, but I
could perhaps make the DOC exporter smarter..

> To have a kind of "new from" memo : new note (for current item) imported 
> from (an existing memo).

	Also interesting, but I'm not sure peopel would use it; probably
linking is the way to go, or copy/paste the text form the app.

> for a direct note entry system (first line of the note would become the new 
> item name)

	Yeah; this is interesting; Its on my list (or soon will be), but
not somethign I'll look at for awhile.  Right now I have little time, so
I'm focusing on specific things, but this is a neat idea.

> and (easy I presume that one):
> replace the non informative "Detail-Note" note entry title, by the first 
> characters of the current item name !

	Definitely.

> Have you read on PalmGearNews BlueNomad proud quote of WordSmith being a 
> "Palmtop-Pro Essentials" for Palm platform
> 
> WS is about 7th on that list, ShadowPlan is 3rd !!!

	woowoo :)

	I am fairly proud; I think Shadow has risen in short order (over
just a few months now; its not even a year old yet!) to be the top
Outliner for Palm. I really need to buckle down and get that desktop out
.. thats the last missing piece, I think. (and a better manual, I guess)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1793

From: Miraz Jordan  <miraz@f...>
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 7:46pm
Subject: proud of Shadow (was: Include linked memos in export ?)

 
At 08:48 -0400 02/08/2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>	I am fairly proud; I think Shadow has risen in short order (over
>just a few months now; its not even a year old yet!) to be the top
>Outliner for Palm. I really need to buckle down and get that desktop out
>.. thats the last missing piece, I think. (and a better manual, I guess)

I found ShadowPlan because of the  PDAWomen mailing list and now use 
it extensively. I haven't yet finished reading the manual (simply 
lack of time - I'm trying to read the rest) but found it useful and 
clear.

The one thing which does make me nervous is the lack of a (Mac) 
desktop. I now have all kinds of important information in Shadow and 
would like to be able to tinker with that information on my computer. 
I'm also not sure if it's all well backed up in case my Visor wipes 
out bigtime. (Just checking price and availaibility of the backup 
Springboard in New Zealand.)

Great work Jeff!



Cheers,

Miraz

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1794

From: Mason Curry  <mcurry@h...>
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 8:08pm
Subject: Re: proud of Shadow (was: Include linked memos in export ?)

 
You can ensure Shadow (and everything else on your Palm) is backed up by
using BackupBuddy.  I've had to restore my data several times and it
works wonders.

Mason
1795

From: freking@p...
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 8:55pm
Subject: Re: Questions on the "New From" Dialog

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 freking@p... wrote:
> 

> but then adding an extra 100 item checks for each 
todo
> .. I'm betting no one would use the feature because it'd be too slow 
:(

Yes, I see your point there.  Even for only once or twice a day usage, 
I can imagine this might be frustratingly slow.

> 	I have thought about adding some datebook4-like extension into 
the
> note field of a todo, to mark that Shadow has "been there", so that 
it
> could easily be skipped like you'd want. But I'm hesitant to add 
"yet
> another" text extension marker into note fields.

Understandable.  I am not sure I want the feature bad enough to have 
more gibberish added to the notes field. Thanks for clarifying what 
the trade-offs might be to get this feature.

Maybe I just need to rethink the way I use Shadow. But then again, 
maybe rethinking will make me feel that more notes gibberish is worth 
it ;-)

Frieda
1796

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 9:34pm
Subject: Re: proud of Shadow (was: Include linked memos in export ?)

 
On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Miraz Jordan wrote:

> The one thing which does make me nervous is the lack of a (Mac) 
> desktop. I now have all kinds of important information in Shadow and 
> would like to be able to tinker with that information on my computer. 

	The desktop is ground up cross-platform (hence taking forever to
write; Writing things for international characters, and on Macs, is not my
strength.. yet ;)  It'll be released for Mac in OS9 format at the same
time or soon after the Windows version.

> I'm also not sure if it's all well backed up in case my Visor wipes 
> out bigtime. (Just checking price and availaibility of the backup 
> Springboard in New Zealand.)

	If you're using any halfway recent (year or more) Hotsync Manager,
then its all backed up nice and tight. Find your Palm User directory, and
inside of that shoudl be a Backup folder (if its like the windows
version), and inside that should be ShadP-yourfilename.pdb files, one for
each Shadow list. The Shadow XML conduit isn't yet for mac, but like I
say, it will come out pretty soon following the windows desktop. I bought
a Mac for this purpose (ouch).

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1797

From: Miraz Jordan  <miraz@f...>
Date: Thu Aug 2, 2001 10:00pm
Subject: Re: proud of Shadow (was: Include linked memos in export ?)

 
At 17:34 -0400 02/08/2001, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>	The desktop is ground up cross-platform (hence taking forever to
>write; Writing things for international characters, and on Macs, is not my
>strength.. yet ;)  It'll be released for Mac in OS9 format at the same
>time or soon after the Windows version.

Great news and thanks. So many bits of Palm software look great until 
I see they have only Windows desktop stuff.

>	If you're using any halfway recent (year or more) Hotsync Manager,
>then its all backed up nice and tight. Find your Palm User directory, and
>inside of that shoudl be a Backup folder (if its like the windows
>version), and inside that should be ShadP-yourfilename.pdb files, one for
>each Shadow list.

Indeed - a whole pile of  them. Thanks.

>  The Shadow XML conduit isn't yet for mac, but like I
>say, it will come out pretty soon following the windows desktop. I bought
>a Mac for this purpose (ouch).

I'm sure you won't regret it :-)



Cheers,

Miraz

-- 
Tips (now with video): <http://www.firstbite.co.nz/mactips/> 
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NZ Mac mailing list (discussion group): <http://www.firstbite.co.nz/nzmac/>
1798

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2001 8:42am
Subject: Re: Re: Revert to Last? Needed?

 
Jeff, 

A thought:  What about an "exit without saving" rather
than revert?  

From a non-programmers view (mine)it seems simpler
than revert.  I have used revert perhaps once a month
after getting sloppy or doing something stupid and it
has saved me some time and headaches.  Exit w/o saving
would have done the same, I think.

Neal



--- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 doug809@h... wrote:
> 
> > Maybe you can keep the revert, but just limit the
> situations in which 
> > it can be used?  I know there are a lot of Windows
> apps that only 
> > provide an "undo" for certain situations (greying
> it out otherwise).
> > 
> > The other idea I thought of is maybe to do a
> delayed commit?  That 
> > is, if a user deletes a linked item, you could
> hide the item from the 
> 
> 	Its difficult to go to town with features on the
> Palm; rsources
> are tight, and when working in other applications
> files it gets especially
> so. A delayed action is interesting, but just not
> possible with the
> current architecture ...
> 
> 	Maybe I'll just have it pop up a big alert saying
> "WARNING! This
> could be worse than it is now!" gut still leave the
> option available...
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around
> in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control
> Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he
> calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> 


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1799

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2001 8:48am
Subject: Re: Re: completed todo date question

 
FWIW, count me in on the like it side.  This better
reflects the way I use Shadow's dates.

Neal

--- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, John Lill wrote:
> 
> > See message #594 on this topic. Is what you
> proposed there still a 
> > possibility? As I recall, several people also
> requested that feature. 
> > That would really enhance Shadow for me.
> 
> 	For others reference, I quote it:
> 
> Currently:
> 
> 	Always:
> 		Target date <-> Todo date
> 
> 	The proposal is:
> 
> 	On import of changes (when a shadow list is
> opened):
> 		If todo checked:
> 			update finish date instead of target date
> 		If todo unchecked:
> 			update target date
> 
> 	On export of changes (when a shadow list is saved):
> 		If todo checked (completed):
> 			update todo's date to finish date
> 		If todo unchecked:
> 			update todo's date to target date
> 
> 	Now, note the next line:
> 
> 	"Seems complex to me :P IS there any gotchas here?"
> 
> 	I left it to a vote, and don't recall see many
> people say much
> other than I think two of you.. I also know that I
> can't make a
> yahoogroups vote out of it, since that always
> results in a "yes, add
> it!" since people like to add things :)
> 
> 	I guess the best I can do is add a pref for this..
> Its not a
> difficult change, so I can do it pretty quickly I
> guess..
> 
>> snip...>>


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1800

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Fri Aug 3, 2001 9:23am
Subject: How can Shadow help?

 
Shadow-discussion group:

How can I link a subtree of items to the ToDo database?  For example, 
I keep a list of people I normally interact with daily.  The child 
node on that list are the items I need to discuss.  The problem is 
that while I can link them to the ToDo database, I do not have a 
context (the parent node is the context).  One way that almost works 
is to 'cut' each individual child node and include them in the parent 
item's note and link that one item to the ToDo database. Besides 
being cumbersome, I can no longer track (.i.e. check off) the 
individual items.

Any ideas how this could be done more efficiently within Shadow?  

Norman
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