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1601

From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:59pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
I agree completely with Joe, and Jeff your level of committment still 
amazes me. Have you read Tom Peters, or did he just use you as an 
when he thought up WOW! Thanks

Scott


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use 
it, is
> it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, 
and I
> think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
> it. *sniff*)
> 
> 	I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks 
wish to
> lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out 
more, so
> that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in 
between?
> 
> 		jfeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1602

From: Marcia  <creink@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: RE: Item age?

 
***YES*YES*YES*** (ya think I really need that!!??!!)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:20 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Item age?
>
>
>
> 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
> Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
>
> 		jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1603

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
Jeff wrote:
 >>How is it difficult, specifically? Give it a shot and let me know. Is it 
just dragging to the top, or in general, or what?<

I'm not Bear, but here's what I can tell you:

- There's a learning curve for Shadow's drag and drop compared to other 
apps-- you can't just easily grab an item and put it just where you want 
it. This is something you have to learn and practice to gain that infamous 
muscle memory, so it becomes second nature.

- When you're first learning Shadow's drag and drop, you're not sure how to 
make it do what you want, so there's hesitation. If you hesitate, all kinds 
of other stuff happens. Sometimes that little popup-details thing happens, 
sometimes you actually end up in the Details window, and you can rarely get 
your item to promote/demote.

- It took me forever to figure out that the "Sibling and Child" guides were 
active at the top of the screen, because I was concentrating on moving my 
item and getting it to stay where I was putting it. If things stay the way 
they are, clearer, emphasized documentation would be very helpful to get 
people up to speed faster

- I love being able to use the Graffiti to promote/demote and actually use 
this as much or more than dragging to promote/demote items

- The bottom line for most is that there shouldn't be any effort to the 
drag and drop operation. People will be happy if they can use it with a 
really "light hand" without having to think about it.

o.
1604

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
Scott wrote:
 >>Jeff your level of committment still amazes me.<<

An AOL-style MeeeTooo! from me!

o.
1605

From: solmar@l...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:53pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
My Vote: I do find drag and drop a bit awkward, with the pop up screen
showing up before I've managed to move something or else I just screw up
with it ending up in the wrong spot. I agree being able to drag to the top
would help, a space in between would also help. A " move to.." command
would be great! I do think learning to use all your shortcuts (including
the copy multiples) would alleviate many other problems as I am sometimes
moving a whole list, and dragging and dropping becomes very tedious.  Joyce
1606

From: solmar@l...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 10:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

 
>But I would ask for a numeric field by item that could be used for time
>length or money, and could be totalised at each level

THIS would be REALLY cool! Or could you put in as a display pref: numeric
vs custom text vs priority vs auto-aging, etc...? Would really like the
ability to total a column. Asking for the moon :-) Joyce
1607

From: ext555@p...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Item age?

 
I'll add my request for this --(you've referred to it previously as 
misc. text field) but the numbering that could be totaled by level 
would be even better!

Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., solmar@l... wrote:
> 
> >But I would ask for a numeric field by item that could be used for 
time
> >length or money, and could be totalised at each level
> 
> THIS would be REALLY cool! Or could you put in as a display pref: 
numeric
> vs custom text vs priority vs auto-aging, etc...? Would really like 
the
> ability to total a column. Asking for the moon :-) Joyce
1608

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 11:23pm
Subject: Re: Item age?

 
Actually I'd like something like that too...one of my lists
is of restaurants around the country, and I'd like to know
when I add them.

I use target date today, but it would be nice to automatically
record the creation date.

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> 
> 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
> Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
1609

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 11:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

 
How about an option to automatically record the creation date
into the start date field? The option could be at the list
level.

Quoting smasters@a... (smasters@a...):
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date 
> (like
> > Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> > determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> Could he not just use start date? Personally I would rather not have 
> a fourth date field cluttering the details display, but it's not 
> something that I'm going to put up a fight over. 
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
1610

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:40am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

 
This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
activated?)

		jeff

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Learned wrote:

> How about an option to automatically record the creation date
> into the start date field? The option could be at the list
> level.
> 
> Quoting smasters@a... (smasters@a...):
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date 
> > (like
> > > Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> > > determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > Could he not just use start date? Personally I would rather not have 
> > a fourth date field cluttering the details display, but it's not 
> > something that I'm going to put up a fight over. 
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1611

From: Ginger Carter  <gardenbug1971@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:03am
Subject: RE: Item age?

 
What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow for a
bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to see
the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it off
for waaay to long.

Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa


>>>I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?

            jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1612

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:04am
Subject: RE: Item age?

 
You mean you wish tohave a optional finish date column, then?

		jeff

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Ginger Carter wrote:

> What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
> completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow for a
> bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to see
> the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it off
> for waaay to long.
> 
> Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa
> 
> 
> >>>I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
> Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> 
>             jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1613

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

 
>Learned wrote:
>
> > How about an option to automatically record the creation date
> > into the start date field? The option could be at the list
> > level.

Jeff wrote:
>         This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
>implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
>activated?)


This idea makes the most sense to me also.
o.
1614

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:15am
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
Yep, drag all the way to the top for top of list, and all the way below for
bottom of the list (it might already do this, I've never tried).

Ken

on 7/13/01 2:11pm, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> 
> Soooooo..
> 
> If I make it so you drag above the list entirely, it goes to the
> top, does that make everyone happy? Or must I make a better drag
> indicator? (trying to narrow down what I need to do..)
> 
> jeff
> 
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Becca wrote:
> 
>> At 7:01 PM +0000 7/13/01, verxion@p... wrote:
>>> The way drag and drop works right now is awesome unless I am dealing
>>> with the top of the list.  I cannot -*EVER*- drag a lower item up to
>>> the top.  I have to drag the top down, and this just seems backwards
>>> to me.
>> 
>> That is it exactly! Thanks for posting something in better detail
>> than my "I can't get it to work right, either" post :).
>> 
>> -- 
>> Becca :)
>> 

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24
1615

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:19am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age? / Date stuff

 
On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> >         This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> >implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
> >activated?)
> 
> This idea makes the most sense to me also.

	OKay, so what about these:

	When making a new item, that happens to be a child to some parent,
should the child always inherit finish date (if parent is finished, child
is also finished), target date (so that filters make more sense), and
start date (since by default it shoudl start in the same region as the
parent, and not just be undefined?)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1616

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:48am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
I use it all the time. There *is* a learning curve, but once 
mastered, it's incredibly easy to ensure things go into the right 
spot.  In fact, I think that it's *easier* to use than most other 
programs, because there's no question what level the item is going to 
be dropped at, as long as you *pay attention* to the Sibling/Child 
status on top.  I got frustrated with other programs since, during 
the dragging motion, the demote/promote line is usually always 
invisible, so when I would lift my stylus on what I *thought* was one 
side of the line, quite often it would end up on the other side and 
my item would wind up in the wrong spot.  Because of this, I find the 
Shadow method superior.

So I vote to keep the UI as it is, but add the drag-to-top while 
still allowing drag-to-bottom.  I would also suggest, like others 
have, that you add a Move option (ala LB).  This makes moving an item 
in a large outline much easier (yes, even easier than cut and paste, 
because your outline can remain expanded, but you don't have to 
scroll through it to get to your destination).

Greg
1617

From: Ginger Carter  <gardenbug1971@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:57am
Subject: RE: Item age?

 
yes, I have several lists that include daily, weekly, and monthly items. I
would like to see the finish date without having to go into the detail for
each item.

thanks,
Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa

        You mean you wish tohave a optional finish date column, then?

              jeff

  On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Ginger Carter wrote:

  > What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
  > completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow
for a
  > bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to
see
  > the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it
off
  > for waaay to long.
  >
  > Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1618

From: Marcia  <creink@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:18am
Subject: RE: Re: Item age?

 
I would really like to see a creation date column altho it probably should
be a preference.  I need to know the date when some actions are started and
then keep a running date as to how it's progressing.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: smasters@a... [mailto:smasters@a...]
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 1:04 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Item age?
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> > 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date
> (like
> > Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> > determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> >
> > 		jeff
> >
> Could he not just use start date? Personally I would rather not have
> a fourth date field cluttering the details display, but it's not
> something that I'm going to put up a fight over.
>
> Scott
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1619

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 6:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

 
At 22:40 13/07/2001 -0400, Jeff wrote:

>This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
>implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
>activated?)

Doesn't make sense to me (my use): I like to enter *future* date : ie 
"don't bother before !"

But as long as it would be an option, I don't mind ;-)=

J.
1620

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 6:45am
Subject: RE: Item age?

 
At 20:03 13/07/2001 -0700, Ginger wrote:

>What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
>completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow for a
>bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to see
>the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it off
>for waaay to long.


Couldn't you copy the task in your datebook ?
And if you have Datebk4, log automatically the date by a link to a Chore in 
the adress book (category "household stuff", for instance).

I think Shadow+Dbk4 make a system, and I try to use them so ;-)


Jacques
1621

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 9:51am
Subject: ToDo date

 
Wish :

When I link to ToDo Database, could there be an option (List pref or Shadow 
pref) to set the new ToDo with Start Date instead of Target date ?

The use :

For important deadlines I would so generate alerts for next outcomes.
It would appear in DateBk4 when the start date occurs and remind me it's 
time to plan it in detailed action items (split, allocate time or 
delegate). When planned, I would substitute planned items (fixed, floats, 
or todos) and delete from ToDos, but keep it as a parent in Shadow (severe 
the broken ToDo link).

Thanks,

Jacques
1622

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:04am
Subject: Promote/demote in menu ?

 
For promote demote, I find easiest is Space/Backspace (either graffiti/ 
FitalyStamp or PPK).

I wonder why you maintain two taps shortcuts /Q and /W for the same in the 
menu ? Someday you'll bring shortcuts for any features, so they could 
become usefull for other features (each release of Shadow, I already 
add-change  many shorcuts in the menu : expand / collapse items|Notes, Zoom 
inside/unzoom...)


BTW: I seldom use drag/drop, with all these mails I tried : I feel at ease, 
and believe I'll use it more.

Jacques
1623

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:16am
Subject: Direct shortcuts?

 
I never use New and Child buttons, because of direct entry (and then, 
enventually [space] ).

But I understand why you keep them displayed (new users).

So, I was thinking of an option (Shad Pref):

Either:

a.
Direct entry
As now, when you tap, it creates an item

b.
Direct shortcut
If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)

What about it ?


Jacques

PS - I hear a lot of nice things about Natara Bonsaļ. But I'm so pleased 
(the more I use, the more I'm pleased) with Shadow I don't even look at it 
, And won't .... if it's not a too long wait for Shadow basic Desktop ;-))
1624

From: hisimage8@y...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:40am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use 
it, is
> it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, 
and I
> think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
> it. *sniff*)
 
Jeff, I'll take a stab at answering why I don't use drag and drop 
much.  And I'll add at the beginning that the "drag and drop" being 
hard to use is the reason that I also was drawn to both LB and 
Bonsai, although their wonderful, smooth drag-n-drop wasn't enough to 
counter all the remarkable features Shadow has. 

It is not only the not-being-able-to-drag-to-the-top that is very 
frustrating until you figure out how to work around it.  I also had 
trouble for quite a while getting it to line up (indented or not) the 
way I wanted it to.  The little indicators at the top just didn't 
seem to work for me in the beginning, although I think I usually get 
it right now.  The biggest thing, though, and the reason that I still 
don't use it as much as I'd like, is because I  often lost my item 
when I did this.  I think that sometimes I was accidentally checking 
it off instead of moving it (if I had a checkbox in front) and since 
I usually filter for checked items it would be hidden; sometimes it 
would just disappear and I'd _never_ find it.  If it's a single item, 
that's not too much of a headache, but if it had children I'd get 
semi-upset.  Now that we're able to chose item by item "type" I make 
my parents non-checkable and that makes them much safer to drag-n-
drop.  I also make use of my keyboard commands to indent or outdent 
if I drag it incorrectly.  

Hope this helps a little.  It's a small thing to me now but I admit 
that when I was comparing the outliners it did make me hesitate 
because others were doing it so elegantly. 

Patricia
1625

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> be dropped at, as long as you *pay attention* to the Sibling/Child 
> status on top.  I got frustrated with other programs since, during 
> the dragging motion, the demote/promote line is usually always 
> invisible, so when I would lift my stylus on what I *thought* was one 
> side of the line, quite often it would end up on the other side and 
> my item would wind up in the wrong spot.  Because of this, I find the 
> Shadow method superior.

	I may make the drag to top work, and maybe do somethign about the
drop-indicator .. but essentially leave it the same. We'll see :)

> So I vote to keep the UI as it is, but add the drag-to-top while 
> still allowing drag-to-bottom.  I would also suggest, like others 
> have, that you add a Move option (ala LB).  This makes moving an item 
> in a large outline much easier (yes, even easier than cut and paste, 
> because your outline can remain expanded, but you don't have to 
> scroll through it to get to your destination).

	How does move work? Select a unit, hit move, then tap where you
want it to go?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1626

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:06pm
Subject: Re: ToDo date

 
I don't know what to do about this.. many people want to have
target as the linking date.. some others want start. It'd be pretty
confusing to have an item level option to do this one way or another
.. (and it'd have to be permanent, since Shadow woudl bneed to know which
field to sync against later)...  You coudl always create more items, like
"Begin task such and such", and use the target date as the start date, but
thats pretty ugly..

	I'm afraid there are so many different ways to use the date fields
that its difficult to make good choices about features for them :/

		jeff

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> Wish :
> 
> When I link to ToDo Database, could there be an option (List pref or Shadow 
> pref) to set the new ToDo with Start Date instead of Target date ?
> 
> The use :
> 
> For important deadlines I would so generate alerts for next outcomes.
> It would appear in DateBk4 when the start date occurs and remind me it's 
> time to plan it in detailed action items (split, allocate time or 
> delegate). When planned, I would substitute planned items (fixed, floats, 
> or todos) and delete from ToDos, but keep it as a parent in Shadow (severe 
> the broken ToDo link).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jacques
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1627

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:07pm
Subject: Re: Promote/demote in menu ?

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> For promote demote, I find easiest is Space/Backspace (either graffiti/ 
> FitalyStamp or PPK).
> 
> I wonder why you maintain two taps shortcuts /Q and /W for the same in the 

	They were originally these shortcuts and later got the
space/backspace shortcuts .. so why discontinue the old functionality
until such time we need to reclaim those letter shortcuts? :) Also,
they're easier seen in the menu.. you can't put backspace or space in the
menu shortcut hint...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1628

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:09pm
Subject: Re: Direct shortcuts?

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> a.
> Direct entry
> As now, when you tap, it creates an item
> 
> b.
> Direct shortcut
> If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
> To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
> ... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)

	I'm confused? You mean a row of buttons like:

KNH

	And if you hit the N it would be like hitting a new button? The
point is just to reduce button size?

	Eventually I'll add an expert bar that removes the buttons and
puts in icons or something, but so little time :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1629

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:12pm
Subject: Culmination..

 
So after a couple dozen emails..

	Is this *always* desirable:

	New Child:
		"Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
		Parents Finish date goes to finish date
		Parents Target date goes to target date

	Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1630

From: loraneb@u...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Item age?

 
Yes, put my vote in for creation date!

Lorane

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if 
pref
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1631

From: farmerwl@b...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great addition to 
my 
> business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have that 
would 
> help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> 
> - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). For 
> instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow key 
> moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the filtered 
ones... 

I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" but 
the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very useful app.

Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.

Bink
1632

From: Lexi Schwartz  <cgs93458@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:42pm
Subject: RE: Drag and drop?

 
It drove me nuts, I was doing it but not realizing that it was actually
moving the item (like when I was moving something up one spot).  Then
reading the manual, I just "trusted it, and voila, it worked")  I
occassionally do have to play with it and keep my eye on the demote icon at
the top.

Lexi
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Don Kurre [mailto:reo@n...]
  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:33 AM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop?


  Jeff, I like Drag and Drop but I do have trouble making it work. Perhaps I
  need to use it more often.
  Don
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
  To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 1:23 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop?


  >
  > How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use it, is
  > it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, and I
  > think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
  > it. *sniff*)
  >
  > I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks wish to
  > lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out more,
so
  > that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in
between?
  >
  > jfeff
  >
  > --
  > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
  >
  >
  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
  >
  >
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1633

From: Lexi Schwartz  <cgs93458@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:44pm
Subject: RE: Drag and drop?

 
Yes.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:24 AM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop?



        How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use it, is
  it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, and I
  think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
  it. *sniff*)

        I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks wish to
  lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out more, so
  that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in between?

              jfeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1634

From: Lynda G  <4kidsmom@h...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:39pm
Subject: RE: Culmination..

 
Sounds lovely!
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1635

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
on 7/14/01 8:03 am, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:
> 
[snip]
>> So I vote to keep the UI as it is, but add the drag-to-top while
>> still allowing drag-to-bottom.  I would also suggest, like others
>> have, that you add a Move option (ala LB).  This makes moving an item
>> in a large outline much easier (yes, even easier than cut and paste,
>> because your outline can remain expanded, but you don't have to
>> scroll through it to get to your destination).
> 
> How does move work? Select a unit, hit move, then tap where you
> want it to go?
> 

In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new form. In
that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the direct
parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to display the
contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, and press the
OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).

I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I really like
LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time that I
need to move something more than about three lines on screen.

Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24
1636

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:42pm
Subject: Re: Culmination..

 
on 7/14/01 8:12 am, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> 
> So after a couple dozen emails..
> 
> Is this *always* desirable:
> 
> New Child:
> "Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> Parents Target date goes to target date
> 
> Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> 
> 

I assume that these would be default values, and we could still change them
to whatever we wanted to, if we needed to?

If so, it sounds reasonable to me.

Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24
1637

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:48pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
Drop and Drag works fine for me now, but being able to drag to the 
top would be a nice addition. I think the indicators are very 
helpful. The only other addition to drop and drag that I would like 
would be (the difficult) split screen and drag to another file.

Just (finally) downloaded 1.5.6 and tried the item type 
customization -- It's GREAT!! Solves a bunch of problems. The major 
complaint I have is the files switching catagories on a global find. 
Really annoying......

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Soooooo..
> 
> 	If I make it so you drag above the list entirely, it goes to 
the
> top, does that make everyone happy? Or must I make a better drag
> indicator? (trying to narrow down what I need to do..)
> 
> 		jeff
>
1638

From: ext555@p...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:52pm
Subject: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

 
Yes, Lap Top hack works GREAT  with Shadow--almost all features are 
possible stylus free. (I use a PPK) the only thing LTH can't do is 
pick a file off the list to open--you still have to tap on the one 
you want, but LTH can open the file once it's highlighted.

JEFF--since the Promote and Demote menu shortcuts aren't really 
necessary, would it be possible to use one of the letters to activate 
the highlight option?

thanks, 
Paul 
 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., farmerwl@b... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> > Jeff,
> > 
> > I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great addition 
to 
> my 
> > business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have that 
> would 
> > help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> > 
> > - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). For 
> > instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow key 
> > moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the filtered 
> ones... 
> 
> I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" but 
> the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very useful 
app.
> 
> Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.
> 
> Bink
1639

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Direct shortcuts?

 
At 10:09 14/07/2001 -0400, you wrote:
Sorry if I made you confused, I was unclear:

What I called "Direct shortcut" was to just an option to enter (graffiti or 
keyboard) the shortcut "Character" instead of "[Command]Character": when 
you use a lot shortcuts it makes a difference ;-)

Some apps can be operated like this (DiddleBug, DrawIt).
I'm not at all asking for new buttons (I would rather suppress New and 
Child ;-))

Thanks for your hard work,

Jacques

.

> > Two options:
>a.
> > Direct entry
> > As now, when you tap, it creates an item
> >
> > b.
> > Direct shortcut
> > If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
> > To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
> > ... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)
>
>         I'm confused? You mean a row of buttons like:
>
>KNH
>
>         And if you hit the N it would be like hitting a new button? The
>point is just to reduce button size?
1640

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

 
Quoting jacques@t... (jacques@t...):
> At 22:40 13/07/2001 -0400, Jeff wrote:
> 
> >This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> >implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
> >activated?)
> 
> Doesn't make sense to me (my use): I like to enter *future* date : ie 
> "don't bother before !"

Wouldn't a future date be entered into the target field?
1641

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Ken Scott wrote:

> In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new form. In
> that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the direct
> parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to display the
> contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, and press the
> OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).
> 
> I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I really like
> LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time that I
> need to move something more than about three lines on screen.

	This seems easily done, but also seems wasteful; ie: We already
have a full screen display widget in the lsit view. Why build another for
moving? Just cut/copy and then move/paste -- its infinitely more flexible,
since it uses the standard interface, and allows more functionality since
you can move to anotehr list, then. Using the above, you have to build a
second whole interface for maneauvering around the list. Seems very
wasteful..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1642

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

 
Theres no other letter you'd like to use, thats free?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 ext555@p... wrote:

> Yes, Lap Top hack works GREAT  with Shadow--almost all features are 
> possible stylus free. (I use a PPK) the only thing LTH can't do is 
> pick a file off the list to open--you still have to tap on the one 
> you want, but LTH can open the file once it's highlighted.
> 
> JEFF--since the Promote and Demote menu shortcuts aren't really 
> necessary, would it be possible to use one of the letters to activate 
> the highlight option?
> 
> thanks, 
> Paul 
>  
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., farmerwl@b... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> > > Jeff,
> > > 
> > > I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great addition 
> to 
> > my 
> > > business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have that 
> > would 
> > > help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> > > 
> > > - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). For 
> > > instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow key 
> > > moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the filtered 
> > ones... 
> > 
> > I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" but 
> > the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very useful 
> app.
> > 
> > Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.
> > 
> > Bink
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1643

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:46pm
Subject: Re: Direct shortcuts?

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> What I called "Direct shortcut" was to just an option to enter (graffiti or 
> keyboard) the shortcut "Character" instead of "[Command]Character": when 
> you use a lot shortcuts it makes a difference ;-)

	Naaah; its already pretty standard for applications to just start
writing into a text field when you enter characters, hence why it starts a
new item now.

> Some apps can be operated like this (DiddleBug, DrawIt).
> I'm not at all asking for new buttons (I would rather suppress New and 
> Child ;-))
> 
> Thanks for your hard work,
> 
> Jacques
> 
> .
> 
> > > Two options:
> >a.
> > > Direct entry
> > > As now, when you tap, it creates an item
> > >
> > > b.
> > > Direct shortcut
> > > If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
> > > To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
> > > ... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)
> >
> >         I'm confused? You mean a row of buttons like:
> >
> >KNH
> >
> >         And if you hit the N it would be like hitting a new button? The
> >point is just to reduce button size?
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1644

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 11:53pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jrs22@o... wrote:

> <FontFamily><param>Times New Roman</param><bigger>On 13 Jul 2001, at 14:23, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 
> I've never been able to make it work.  I considered 
> switching to another outliner just for this purpose, 
> but you're improving all other aspects of the program 
> so I hoped that eventually you'd get around to this.

	It works 100% perfectly as I designed it; you just need to learn
how to use it, which I admit is a failing of mine -- I thought it would be
obvious, but I guess its only obvious to me ;) Check in the manual for
details on how it works. I will be trying to make it easier to use..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1645

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 0:44am
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
on 7/14/01 1:41pm, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Ken Scott wrote:
> 
>> In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new form. In
>> that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the direct
>> parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to display the
>> contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, and press the
>> OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).
>> 
>> I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I really like
>> LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time that I
>> need to move something more than about three lines on screen.
> 
> This seems easily done, but also seems wasteful; ie: We already
> have a full screen display widget in the lsit view. Why build another for
> moving? Just cut/copy and then move/paste -- its infinitely more flexible,
> since it uses the standard interface, and allows more functionality since
> you can move to anotehr list, then. Using the above, you have to build a
> second whole interface for maneauvering around the list. Seems very
> wasteful..
> 

Maybe, but I think it's one of those things that has to be experienced. For
me, it's a very easy, natural way to move an item a long way in an outline.
I don't think I've ever tried the cut-n-paste method. I don't tend to do
that a lot on my Palm for some reason.

Anyway, just an idea.

Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24
1646

From: nevai@m...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:19am
Subject: Re: keyboard support

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., psvincent@m... wrote:
> I wish more developers did.  :)  People tend to gravitate to those 
> who listen... like Steuart Dewar (Datebk4) and Paul Nevai (LapTopHack 
> and pEdit).  With any luck, the market will reward you guys.  I just 

Market reward? I don't care. I care about creating the best I can, and making 
users of my stuff as happy as I can, and proving that the Palm is a serious 
computer.
Best regards, Paul
1647

From: ext555@p...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:52am
Subject: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

 
I thought it might be easier for you use one that was already on the 
menu list?   Whatever letter you want to use is fine with me : )

Since I've been using shadow more --I realized it's one of the few 
commands you can't activate by PPK--but now that Laptop Hack can 
activate all the menus I can just key over to it--but a command 
letter would make it much easier still ; )

definitely not something that needs any priority on your list. 

keep up the great work! 

Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Theres no other letter you'd like to use, thats free?
> 
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 ext555@p... wrote:
> 
> > Yes, Lap Top hack works GREAT  with Shadow--almost all features 
are 
> > possible stylus free. (I use a PPK) the only thing LTH can't do 
is 
> > pick a file off the list to open--you still have to tap on the 
one 
> > you want, but LTH can open the file once it's highlighted.
> > 
> > JEFF--since the Promote and Demote menu shortcuts aren't really 
> > necessary, would it be possible to use one of the letters to 
activate 
> > the highlight option?
> > 
> > thanks, 
> > Paul 
> >  
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., farmerwl@b... wrote:
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> > > > Jeff,
> > > > 
> > > > I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great 
addition 
> > to 
> > > my 
> > > > business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have 
that 
> > > would 
> > > > help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> > > > 
> > > > - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). 
For 
> > > > instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow 
key 
> > > > moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the 
filtered 
> > > ones... 
> > > 
> > > I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" 
but 
> > > the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very 
useful 
> > app.
> > > 
> > > Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.
> > > 
> > > Bink
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1648

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:49am
Subject: RE: Re: Categories rearranging themselves

 
>I'm seeing this, too. Are you using Linker?
>
>It seems to happen when I leave Shadow with a file open, then use a
>Linker link to get into another Shadow file in another category. Like
>I might be looking at "House Projects" in the Personal category, then
>jump to DateBk4 (via hardware button), then tap a link to "Work
>Projects" which is in the Business category. When I do that, "Work
>Projects" gets moved to the Personal category.
>
>If I close the Shadow file first before leaving Shadow, this is not a
>problem, even if Shadow's file list is showing only the Personal
>category.
>
>Does this match your experience?
>
>Bob


Yes - this is it EXACTLY!  I can now reproduce it every time.



Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************
1649

From: ext555@p...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:03am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
Jeff, in Life Balance--I think the reason they designed the move 
command (I think the second screen is  officially known as the task 
selector?) is because everything in LB is in one outline and moving 
around it can get very cumbersome, dragging up several screens to get 
it where you wanted it to go
--People  have the contents of several shadow files in one LB 
outline. 
 I don't think Shadow needs this and one thing that really made 
shadow hard to use at first was trying to cram too much into one 
file.   Once I discovered the great clipboard you've built into the 
app, and changed my usage to more files, then Shadow became very 
quick and easy to use. 

Just my .02
Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Ken Scott wrote:
> 
> > In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new 
form. In
> > that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the 
direct
> > parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to 
display the
> > contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, 
and press the
> > OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).
> > 
> > I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I 
really like
> > LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time 
that I
> > need to move something more than about three lines on screen.
> 
> 	This seems easily done, but also seems wasteful; ie: We 
already
> have a full screen display widget in the lsit view. Why build 
another for
> moving? Just cut/copy and then move/paste -- its infinitely more 
flexible,
> since it uses the standard interface, and allows more functionality 
since
> you can move to anotehr list, then. Using the above, you have to 
build a
> second whole interface for maneauvering around the list. Seems very
> wasteful..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1650

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:35am
Subject: Importing todos and appts

 
Is there a way to import only todos that are not currently linked in another
shadow outline?  I often enter things on the fly into the datebook or todo
app, but would like to bring them into shadow as a resource.  Sometimes I
enter a lot of items before I get a chance to sit down with shadow and
organize them.  It would be nice to see only items that are not linked into
shadow anywhere.  Is this an option anywhere?

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************
1651

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:28am
Subject: Re: ToDo date

 
All I want is a "DUE" date and have been assuming that "Target" date is the 
same thing. Am I assuming correctly? If so, then that's what I'd want too.

Thanks :-)

Jeff wrote:
>         I don't know what to do about this.. many people want to have
>target as the linking date.. some others want start.
1652

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:59am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age? / Date stuff

 
You mean if your list is a Task list? I don't use those-- only the ToDo 
type (little bubble checkboxes por moi). If I do use the Task-type list in 
the future I can't imagine that each child of a parent in an outline would 
always inherit the same finish date. What if you need to finish one item 
before you could start the next thing on the list?

o.

---------

At 08:19 PM 07/13/2001, you wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:
>
> > >         This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> > >implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
> > >activated?)
> >
> > This idea makes the most sense to me also.
>
>         OKay, so what about these:
>
>         When making a new item, that happens to be a child to some parent,
>should the child always inherit finish date (if parent is finished, child
>is also finished), target date (so that filters make more sense), and
>start date (since by default it shoudl start in the same region as the
>parent, and not just be undefined?)
>
>                 jeff
1653

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:01am
Subject: Re: Culmination..

 
I could buy into it if you exchanged the word "Start" to "Created." <g>

o.

----------

At 07:12 AM 07/14/2001, you wrote:

>         So after a couple dozen emails..
>
>         Is this *always* desirable:
>
>         New Child:
>                 "Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
>                 Parents Finish date goes to finish date
>                 Parents Target date goes to target date
>
>         Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
>
>                 jeff
1654

From: jrs22@o...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:04am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On 14 Jul 2001, at 19:53, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>  It works 100% perfectly as I designed it; you just need to learn how
> to use it, which I admit is a failing of mine -- I thought it would be
> obvious, but I guess its only obvious to me ;) Check in the manual for
> details on how it works. I will be trying to make it easier to use..
> 
>   jeff
> 

So you're too polite to just say - RTFM!  I'll have to read it at home 
so I don't ruin my reputation.
1655

From: opitz@s...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:40pm
Subject: Re: Categories rearranging themselves

 
Jeff,

I just tried this with 1.5.12, and I'm still getting files AWOL 
from their categories this way.

As for Joe's suggestion, I haven't yet seen someone post a concrete 
example of this problem without Linker, so here's one:

Open a Shadow file, say in the Business category. Now do a global find 
for something you know is in a file in another Shadow category, say 
Unfiled, and tap to jump to it. If you look at the List Preferences, 
you'll see that the category of the file is now changed to Business.

Here's the catch: Shadow seems to have no idea this has happened. So 
if you just close the file without making any changes, it remains in 
the old (Unfiled) category. If you make any change so that Shadow must 
save it, it goes into the changed (Business) category.

I can also get this to happen with Intelligent Find, which uses its 
own search engine (not Palm's). The common thread in the problem seems 
to be: 1) Shadow has a file open, 2) Some OTHER application jumps to a 
record in a file in a different category, 3) You make a change to the 
different file (else the category reverts to the correct one).

Bob


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> 
> > I have had this problem as well, and posted about it some time 
back.  
> > What needs to happen is for someone to come up with a concrete,
> > reproducable example (preferably without linker since I don't 
think
> > Jeff has it).  I don't have time right now or I would.
> 
> 	AFAIK, it at least happens when doing some Palm Global Finds, 
and
> also when using any form of link and resaving (does it still happen 
in
> 1.5.12? I thoguht I fixed some of this..)  Its on my list of things 
to
> look at soon ..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > -Joe Chott
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., opitz@s... wrote:
> > > Gretchen,
> > > 
> > > I'm seeing this, too. Are you using Linker?
> > > 
> > > It seems to happen when I leave Shadow with a file open, then 
use a 
> > > Linker link to get into another Shadow file in another category. 
Like 
> > > I might be looking at "House Projects" in the Personal category, 
then 
> > > jump to DateBk4 (via hardware button), then tap a link to "Work 
> > > Projects" which is in the Business category. When I do that, 
"Work 
> > > Projects" gets moved to the Personal category.
> > > 
> > > If I close the Shadow file first before leaving Shadow, this is 
not a 
> > > problem, even if Shadow's file list is showing only the Personal 
> > > category.
> > > 
> > > Does this match your experience?
> > > 
> > > Bob
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., <drumgirl313@y...> wrote:
> > > > 	I have been watching carefully to make sure this is 
not user 
> > > error on my
> > > > part.  I saw a post earlier that mentioned this as well.  My 
> > > outlines seem
> > > > to migrate into different categories. I have an outline I keep 
in
> > > > 'personal', and it keeps moving to my 'teacher' category from 
time 
> > > to time.
> > > > I can't pinpoint what is causing it, tho.  I am pretty 
positive I am 
> > > not
> > > > accidentally changing the category myself.  Anyone else 
experiencing 
> > > this?
> > > > 
> > > > Gretchen
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1656

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:11pm
Subject: Re: Importing todos and appts

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 drumgirl313@y... wrote:

> Is there a way to import only todos that are not currently linked in another
> shadow outline?  I often enter things on the fly into the datebook or todo

	No; for this, for each Todo that is a potential candidate I'd have
to scan through every shadow list to see if it matches anywhere.. consider
looking through 1000 todos, matching against 100 items in shadow
lists.. multiply that out :) Your desktop can do that, but the Palm
cannot. I coudl ultimately put some hints into the todo record, like a
string int he note field to suggest Shadow has already linked it.. but I'm
so far avoiding doing that sort of trickery..

> app, but would like to bring them into shadow as a resource.  Sometimes I
> enter a lot of items before I get a chance to sit down with shadow and
> organize them.  It would be nice to see only items that are not linked into
> shadow anywhere.  Is this an option anywhere?

	I keep a todo category for as yet unfiled things (I use it
separately to the unfiled category, though). So I set my shadow lists to
drop todos into this purgatory, and then I sort through them every few
days and move them to their correct category..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1657

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:14pm
Subject: Re: Culmination..

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> I could buy into it if you exchanged the word "Start" to "Created." <g>

	Create date is already stored; just not shown (no one wanted it,
7mo ago when this all started :) I'm wondering if a crteate-date column is
useful.. or if a "age" column is more useful.. to show number of days
since creation. Hmm.

> 
> o.
> 
> ----------
> 
> At 07:12 AM 07/14/2001, you wrote:
> 
> >         So after a couple dozen emails..
> >
> >         Is this *always* desirable:
> >
> >         New Child:
> >                 "Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> >                 Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> >                 Parents Target date goes to target date
> >
> >         Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> >
> >                 jeff
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1658

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:15pm
Subject: Re: ToDo date

 
On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> All I want is a "DUE" date and have been assuming that "Target" date is the 
> same thing. Am I assuming correctly? If so, then that's what I'd want too.
> 
> Thanks :-)
> 
> Jeff wrote:
> >         I don't know what to do about this.. many people want to have
> >target as the linking date.. some others want start.

	Target == Due in my mind, but you can relly use them as you like
:) The desktop app will show from start to finish, with a marker at target
so you know when you were/are supposed to finish..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1659

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:15pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 jrs22@o... wrote:

> >  It works 100% perfectly as I designed it; you just need to learn how
> > to use it, which I admit is a failing of mine -- I thought it would be
> > obvious, but I guess its only obvious to me ;) Check in the manual for
> > details on how it works. I will be trying to make it easier to use..
> 
> So you're too polite to just say - RTFM!  I'll have to read it at home 
> so I don't ruin my reputation.  

	Noo.. reading the manual would help you out; however, having to
read the manual makes it my fault .. its obviously not easy enugh to use
intuitively..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1660

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: Categories rearranging themselves

 
I know exactly where this problem is.. hopefully I can get a
chance to do some development and fix it soon.. 

		jeff

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 opitz@s... wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
> I just tried this with 1.5.12, and I'm still getting files AWOL 
> from their categories this way.
> 
> As for Joe's suggestion, I haven't yet seen someone post a concrete 
> example of this problem without Linker, so here's one:
> 
> Open a Shadow file, say in the Business category. Now do a global find 
> for something you know is in a file in another Shadow category, say 
> Unfiled, and tap to jump to it. If you look at the List Preferences, 
> you'll see that the category of the file is now changed to Business.
> 
> Here's the catch: Shadow seems to have no idea this has happened. So 
> if you just close the file without making any changes, it remains in 
> the old (Unfiled) category. If you make any change so that Shadow must 
> save it, it goes into the changed (Business) category.
> 
> I can also get this to happen with Intelligent Find, which uses its 
> own search engine (not Palm's). The common thread in the problem seems 
> to be: 1) Shadow has a file open, 2) Some OTHER application jumps to a 
> record in a file in a different category, 3) You make a change to the 
> different file (else the category reverts to the correct one).
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> > 
> > > I have had this problem as well, and posted about it some time 
> back.  
> > > What needs to happen is for someone to come up with a concrete,
> > > reproducable example (preferably without linker since I don't 
> think
> > > Jeff has it).  I don't have time right now or I would.
> > 
> > 	AFAIK, it at least happens when doing some Palm Global Finds, 
> and
> > also when using any form of link and resaving (does it still happen 
> in
> > 1.5.12? I thoguht I fixed some of this..)  Its on my list of things 
> to
> > look at soon ..
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > > 
> > > -Joe Chott
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., opitz@s... wrote:
> > > > Gretchen,
> > > > 
> > > > I'm seeing this, too. Are you using Linker?
> > > > 
> > > > It seems to happen when I leave Shadow with a file open, then 
> use a 
> > > > Linker link to get into another Shadow file in another category. 
> Like 
> > > > I might be looking at "House Projects" in the Personal category, 
> then 
> > > > jump to DateBk4 (via hardware button), then tap a link to "Work 
> > > > Projects" which is in the Business category. When I do that, 
> "Work 
> > > > Projects" gets moved to the Personal category.
> > > > 
> > > > If I close the Shadow file first before leaving Shadow, this is 
> not a 
> > > > problem, even if Shadow's file list is showing only the Personal 
> > > > category.
> > > > 
> > > > Does this match your experience?
> > > > 
> > > > Bob
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., <drumgirl313@y...> wrote:
> > > > > 	I have been watching carefully to make sure this is 
> not user 
> > > > error on my
> > > > > part.  I saw a post earlier that mentioned this as well.  My 
> > > > outlines seem
> > > > > to migrate into different categories. I have an outline I keep 
> in
> > > > > 'personal', and it keeps moving to my 'teacher' category from 
> time 
> > > > to time.
> > > > > I can't pinpoint what is causing it, tho.  I am pretty 
> positive I am 
> > > > not
> > > > > accidentally changing the category myself.  Anyone else 
> experiencing 
> > > > this?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Gretchen
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1661

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 6:39pm
Subject: Re: ToDo date

 
oooieoo@k... wrote:
 > All I want is a "DUE" date and have been assuming that "Target" date is the
 > same thing. Am I assuming correctly? If so, then that's what I'd want too.

>----------------------
Jeff wrote:
>         Target == Due in my mind, but you can relly use them as you like
>:) The desktop app will show from start to finish, with a marker at target
>so you know when you were/are supposed to finish..

Well, color me a Happy Camper then. :-)

o.
1662

From: Laurie and Randy Cox  <rlcox@k...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 8:56pm
Subject: Linking other apps w/Shadow

 
This may be a really dumb question but I have been reading all these posts
and trying to find things that may make my system easier and I am not sure I
am seeing that.

I am wondering about the purpose of linking things to your datebook and to
do.

What I have done is set up outlines in Shadow for the different things I
need to do.  I haven't read Getting Things Done but have picked up some
things from the discussions on GtD and Shadow.  So I have set up categories
or main headings or whatever they are called for @phone, @store, @work,
@church, @leaving (thanks to Joe for that one!), etc.  I also downloaded my
Flylady routines from a gal on SHEandPDA list.  Within all these are my
lists:  for example I have to call the eye doctor for an appointment so that
is under @phone.  I added to my Flylady daily routine an outline for dietary
needs -- my 1 to 8 glasses of water so I can check them off when I drink
them, eating breakfast (as required by a diet I am trying to follow), etc.
With all my lists I use checkboxes so I can check them off when completed.

I guess what I am trying to understand is why I would then need to link my
phone call to the eye doctor to my to-do list or my datebook.  Am I missing
something here?  I want to use these apps so that I can accomplish as much
as possible and stay organized but for some reason I am not comprehending
the link part.

Could someone who does link to the different apps please explain to me how
that might be beneficial and allow me to get better use from my Palm?

Thanks.
Laurie
1663

From: D  <thurifer@m...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 179 -Drag and Drop

 
I love drag and dropping, and have had no problems making it work
(except those occasions when I'm simply not concentrating and
drop the item three items away from its destination!! ;-)  ). I
would hate to lose it and its functionality of choosing sibling
or child status while dnding!

To be able to drag to the top would be great though not a big
deal for the types of lists I most commonly make.

Thanks, Jeff, for the chance to offer input.

Doug

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 7/13/2001 at 8:59 PM shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>_________________________________________________________________
_______
>
>Message: 9
>   Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:23:39 -0400 (EDT)
>   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
>Subject: Drag and drop?
>
>
>	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use it,
is
>it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it,
and I
>think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't
like
>it. *sniff*)
>
>	I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks wish
to
>lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out
more, so
>that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in
between?
>
>		jfeff
>
>--
>"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
>circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I
mean,
>sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate
he is?"
>-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
_
*************************************
   Doug Morrison-Cleary
thurifer@m...
1664

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 9:06pm
Subject: Re: Linking other apps w/Shadow

 
The long and the short of it is that if you want to view your ToDos through 
the ToDo app of your choice you would link them. Same with the DateBk app 
of your choice. Otherwise, there's not much sense in it.

I use ToDoPlus features to set some options I like, then I use DateBk4 as a 
kind of window where I can see all of my ToDos and Dated items. It's all in 
one place and I only see what I need to see at the time.
o.

-------------------

At 01:56 PM 07/15/2001, you wrote:
>This may be a really dumb question but I have been reading all these posts
>and trying to find things that may make my system easier and I am not sure I
>am seeing that.
>
><snip>

>I guess what I am trying to understand is why I would then need to link my
>phone call to the eye doctor to my to-do list or my datebook.  Am I missing
>something here?  I want to use these apps so that I can accomplish as much
>as possible and stay organized but for some reason I am not comprehending
>the link part.
>
>Could someone who does link to the different apps please explain to me how
>that might be beneficial and allow me to get better use from my Palm?
1665

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 9:16pm
Subject: Re: Linking other apps w/Shadow

 
On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, Laurie and Randy Cox wrote:

> I guess what I am trying to understand is why I would then need to link my
> phone call to the eye doctor to my to-do list or my datebook.  Am I missing
> something here?  I want to use these apps so that I can accomplish as much
> as possible and stay organized but for some reason I am not comprehending
> the link part.

	I'm hoping others can respond better than I.. but I thought I'd
add this..

	I keep almost all my data and timelines and lists in Shadow
(naturally ;). For important things with strict timelines, I link them to
a todo item. So each morning I browse my todolist at work, for instance,
and that gets me the important things I need to worry about. Every few
days I browse my "todo" type lists for things in Shadow, and I link any
items which come to bear. For instance, in Shadow I can use a hilight to
identify upcoming items.. so I'll link items to the todo as they enter the
upcoming section or filter..

	So I use my todo app for a clearing house for very near or
important items I need to see each day. I use Shadow to organize all these
little things into larger scales .. so Shadow has a Project (that coudl be
6mo long, involving many small details and subplans), and use Todo to keep
track of alarms for things "in the next day or two".

	I use the datebook for meetings, and occasionally link to it. For
instance, birthdays, meetings with colleagues for business or whatever,
and other timed or repeatng events go into my datebook. Todo is for next
day things. Shadow is for larger scale. I use Action Names (though DB4 is
same thing) to keep an eye on both todos and datebooks in the same view.

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1666

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 9:18pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 179 -Drag and Drop

 
On Sun, 15 Jul 2001, D wrote:

> I love drag and dropping, and have had no problems making it work
> (except those occasions when I'm simply not concentrating and
> drop the item three items away from its destination!! ;-)  ). I
> would hate to lose it and its functionality of choosing sibling
> or child status while dnding!

	There won't be any functionality loss; so far I've manager to
always add good things, and never needed to remove functionality from
shadow. I'm hoping to keep the trend :) (ie: Functions no one eve uses may
be removed as needed, but so far I think I've added stuff people
need.. since I only really add things that are requested and voted on by
folks)

> To be able to drag to the top would be great though not a big
> deal for the types of lists I most commonly make.
> 
> Thanks, Jeff, for the chance to offer input.

	See, thats the rub. I ask for input, and I welcome it. We all know
input is good. Heck, how many companies pay for surveys and input? Yet
with softweare, we're all enpassioned about it and wish to give out
opinions.. but 95% of companies either dont' care or havent' the resources
to handle it. But here I am, 1 person. Those other guys shoudl smarten up
:P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1667

From: grumpstone@y...
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 1:41am
Subject: De-linking option on copied lists

 
Is there a way to de-link linked todos or appointments when a list is 
copied?

I like to create a list of important to-dos for the week.  I started 
using Shadow to organize that list because it links pretty well to 
the todo list.  At the end of the week, I like to copy that list so I 
can use it again.  Unfortunately, when I uncheck checked items, it 
unchecks the todos and tells me that I didn't really do those things 
I did last week, that I need to do them again, and that I'm late.  

While I could go in and manually delink each item, it would be easier 
and better to have an option to delink on copy or duplicate.

Does this exist?  Do ya think ya might wanna include this in future 
versions?
1668

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 1:52am
Subject: Re: De-linking option on copied lists

 
Hmm. I'll think about adding an option to unlink during
"duplication" of list .. that makes sense.

		jeff

On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:

> Is there a way to de-link linked todos or appointments when a list is 
> copied?
> 
> I like to create a list of important to-dos for the week.  I started 
> using Shadow to organize that list because it links pretty well to 
> the todo list.  At the end of the week, I like to copy that list so I 
> can use it again.  Unfortunately, when I uncheck checked items, it 
> unchecks the todos and tells me that I didn't really do those things 
> I did last week, that I need to do them again, and that I'm late.  
> 
> While I could go in and manually delink each item, it would be easier 
> and better to have an option to delink on copy or duplicate.
> 
> Does this exist?  Do ya think ya might wanna include this in future 
> versions?
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1669

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 3:29am
Subject: RE: Drag and Drop

 
I have to jump in here and say I have no problems with drag-n-drop either.
It took a little getting used to at first but now I have no trouble moving
things around.  I would hate to lose it.

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************



>-----Original Message-----
>From: D [mailto:thurifer@m...]
>Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 4:09 PM
>To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Digest Number 179 -Drag and Drop
>
>
>I love drag and dropping, and have had no problems making it work
>(except those occasions when I'm simply not concentrating and
>drop the item three items away from its destination!! ;-)  ). I
>would hate to lose it and its functionality of choosing sibling
>or child status while dnding!
>
>To be able to drag to the top would be great though not a big
>deal for the types of lists I most commonly make.
>
>Thanks, Jeff, for the chance to offer input.
>
>Doug
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
>On 7/13/2001 at 8:59 PM shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>_______
>>
>>Message: 9
>>   Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:23:39 -0400 (EDT)
>>   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
>>Subject: Drag and drop?
>>
>>
>>	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use it,
>is
>>it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it,
>and I
>>think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't
>like
>>it. *sniff*)
>>
>>	I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks wish
>to
>>lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out
>more, so
>>that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in
>between?
>>
>>		jfeff
>>
>>--
>>"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
>micro
>>circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I
>mean,
>>sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate
>he is?"
>>-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>>
>>
>_
>*************************************
>   Doug Morrison-Cleary
>thurifer@m...
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
1670

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:53am
Subject: Re: De-linking option on copied lists

 
Please consider this not only on duplication of entire lists, but 
also when just copying and pasting *items* that contain links.  I do 
this all the time...it's a little frustrating to have to copy an item 
(or group of items), sever its link, then recreate a link, especially 
when the Link Manager makes the operation fairly slow.

Greg

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Hmm. I'll think about adding an option to unlink during
> "duplication" of list .. that makes sense.
> 
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 grumpstone@y... wrote:
> 
> > Is there a way to de-link linked todos or appointments when a 
list is 
> > copied?
> > 
> > I like to create a list of important to-dos for the week.  I 
started 
> > using Shadow to organize that list because it links pretty well 
to 
> > the todo list.  At the end of the week, I like to copy that list 
so I 
> > can use it again.  Unfortunately, when I uncheck checked items, 
it 
> > unchecks the todos and tells me that I didn't really do those 
things 
> > I did last week, that I need to do them again, and that I'm 
late.  
> > 
> > While I could go in and manually delink each item, it would be 
easier 
> > and better to have an option to delink on copy or duplicate.
> > 
> > Does this exist?  Do ya think ya might wanna include this in 
future 
> > versions?
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1671

From: Neal Cordle  <ncordle@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 11:17am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
I'm with you, Jeff.  I like it!  ...and I would not
like to sacrifice another line of text if at all
avoidable.

Neal


--- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who
> don't use it, is
> it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator?
> (I love it, and I
> think its great.. but looks like the majority
> certainly don't like
> it. *sniff*)
> 
> 	I asked once before, but its left my memory ..
> would folks wish to
> lose a line of item text, so that everything could
> be spaced out more, so
> that when draging up and down there'd be space to
> draw a line in between?
> 
> 		jfeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around
> in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control
> Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he
> calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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1672

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 11:43am
Subject: Link duplication: Re: Re: De-linking option on copied lists

 
On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> Please consider this not only on duplication of entire lists, but 
> also when just copying and pasting *items* that contain links.  I do 
> this all the time...it's a little frustrating to have to copy an item 
> (or group of items), sever its link, then recreate a link, especially 
> when the Link Manager makes the operation fairly slow.

	I've not decided a good way to do this yet.. 

	ie: When you hit paste, as Shadow pastes items, should it pop up a
box asking for each item the following:

	"Duplicate link or maintain existing link?"

	"Duplicate" "Keep" "Keep and Don't Ask!"

	(ie: I sometimes copy links, so that two files can have an item
pointing to the same thing :/)

	(Maybe it should be an option likt Set Hold Many under the [C]
popmenu.. "Set duplicate link" sort of thing?)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1673

From: Laurie and Randy Cox  <rlcox@k...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 0:02pm
Subject: RE: Re: Drag and drop?

 
- There's a learning curve for Shadow's drag and drop compared to other
apps-- you can't just easily grab an item and put it just where you want
it. This is something you have to learn and practice to gain that infamous
muscle memory, so it becomes second nature.

- When you're first learning Shadow's drag and drop, you're not sure how to
make it do what you want, so there's hesitation. If you hesitate, all kinds
of other stuff happens. Sometimes that little popup-details thing happens,
sometimes you actually end up in the Details window, and you can rarely get
your item to promote/demote.


I don't mean to be flippant or anything like that but I haven't had any
problems.  After I set up one of my big lists I realized it wasn't in the
order I wanted it.  I went in and grabbed the first one and dragged and
dropped.  I had absolutely no trouble at all.  A few moves to get my list
how I wanted it and I was done.  I didn't have to think about how I was
going to do it -- I just did it.  I just installed Shadow about 4 weeks
ago -- could a newer version be the difference?

Laurie
1674

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 0:29pm
Subject: RE: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, Laurie and Randy Cox wrote:

> order I wanted it.  I went in and grabbed the first one and dragged and
> dropped.  I had absolutely no trouble at all.  A few moves to get my list
> how I wanted it and I was done.  I didn't have to think about how I was
> going to do it -- I just did it.  I just installed Shadow about 4 weeks
> ago -- could a newer version be the difference?

	I think my system must just "take" for 30% of people, and not for
others :P

	The latest official release is 1.5.6, while the current public
beta is 1.5.12

		jeff	

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1675

From: smasters@a...
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Culmination..

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	New Child:
> 		"Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> 		Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> 		Parents Target date goes to target date
> 
> 	Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> 
I do not like this idea for Target date. The target dates for my 
children are never the same as the parent, that's why they're 
children. They are smaller pieces of the parent and are to be done 
before the parents target date. I worry that if you default this 
field I will miss entering the correct target date and seriously 
screw up my ToDo list.

Jeff, as a software design PM, I would say that many of  the current 
discussions are a matter of "creeping elegance". Please be careful 
how you proceed with these individual requests.

Scott
1676

From: verxion@p...
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:35pm
Subject: Link duplication: Re: Re: De-linking option on copied lists

 
I think THAT makes the most sense Jeff.  Right in the menu where we can choose before we do the operation, or even invert the default if people like it that way (Imagine the guy that ALWAYS wants the links severed.  The popup on copy would really be a pain for him the 100th time, whereas he could set it ONCE in this menu you propose).

Just my thought, though personally, I have no major issue with how it is now, I just want per item category support.  :)

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	(Maybe it should be an option likt Set Hold Many under the [C]
> popmenu.. "Set duplicate link" sort of thing?)
> 
> 		jeff
1677

From: Carolyn Dean  <caro488@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:37pm
Subject: Re: Jeff's mind

 
I love Shadow, and tried to pay for it at Handango,
but they said there was some problem and gave me two
phone numbers. One was out of service, and the other
put me into an infinite loop of "press 2 if..."

So I tried to email them... Anyway, I am trying to pay
you back, Jeff, a tiny bit for all that you do.
Someday I will get that taken care of.
(Obviously I am not the strongest link,...)

Anyway, I wanted to tell you how much I have
appreciated the way that you want to make the program
what the users want. I especially like this forum as a
chance to "see a developer thinking"--
C
--- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around
> in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control
> Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he
> calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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1678

From: Carolyn Dean  <caro488@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:49pm
Subject: RE: Re: Drag and drop?

 
I think you have underestimated the silent majority -
they are not discussing it here because it works for
them,
I had slight trouble at first because some programs
drop above where you stop, and some drop below - I
considered it MY learning curve...

THe whole thing about dropping above the first line is
silly. Don't spend time or lose a line to do that.
You drop it as number 2, then move number one below it
- two steps, but fast and easy...
C

--- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
30%

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1679

From: Andy Tinkham  <andy@t...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 3:02pm
Subject: Re: Linking other apps w/Shadow

 
One other thing that I use linking for in general (i.e., not just from
Shadow) is for the ease of getting phone numbers/emails from contacts
without cluttering up the record and inserting it directly.

For example, I might have a todo item in Shadow called "Call Chip to get
information on MAPS".  In Shadow, I'd add a link to Chip's address record
(which shows up as Chip's name immediately under the todo item.  I'd also
make it be a todo, and link it in DateBk4 so that I could get to Chip's
contact information with just a tap or two regardless of which program I
happen to be viewing the todo in when I get to doing it, but I don't have
Chip's phone number making the line longer and taking up more screen real
estate.  I'll do similar links for all my birthday/anniversary records in
the datebook and meetings with particular people (makes it a whole lot
easier to get their number to call them if I'm stuck in traffic and/or
running late)

The same could be true with a slight adaptation of your eye doctor todo.  If
instead of having to call to schedule an appt. for the first time, you had
to call to reschedule an appt., you could link to the original appt and have
access to any notes, etc. you have stored with it (plus quick access to move
it to the new date/time after you've completed rescheduling).

I'm just starting to get into links myself (in either Shadow or DateBk4),
and I'd imagine there's probably even more that can be done with them.  It
would be nice to have a universal linking format so I didn't have to make
the links twice, but still I think it's a very powerful tool...

Andy
1680

From: Bob Beveridge  <bbeveridge@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 3:15pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
I don't agree - if anything, the burst of interest after this topic was
initiated I think shows that lots of people would like a "better" drag and
drop. I just spent a couple of minutes with Arranger, just playing around
with dragging/dropping, and it was a good reminder of how drag & drop should
be - you don't have to concentrate, or learn anything - you just start
dragging, and its obvious how it works, very intuitive. Now I gave up
Arranger for Shadow some time ago, because overall its clearly superior, but
I do miss that feature.

Bob B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carolyn Dean" <caro488@y...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 7:49 AM
Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: Drag and drop?


> I think you have underestimated the silent majority -
> they are not discussing it here because it works for
> them,
> I had slight trouble at first because some programs
> drop above where you stop, and some drop below - I
> considered it MY learning curve...
>
> THe whole thing about dropping above the first line is
> silly. Don't spend time or lose a line to do that.
> You drop it as number 2, then move number one below it
> - two steps, but fast and easy...
> C
>
> --- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 30%
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1681

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 4:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Culmination..

 
Quoting smasters@a... (smasters@a...):
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 	New Child:
> > 		"Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> > 		Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> > 		Parents Target date goes to target date
> > 
> > 	Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> > 
> I do not like this idea for Target date. The target dates for my 
> children are never the same as the parent, that's why they're 
> children. They are smaller pieces of the parent and are to be done 
> before the parents target date. I worry that if you default this 
> field I will miss entering the correct target date and seriously 
> screw up my ToDo list.
> 
> Jeff, as a software design PM, I would say that many of  the current 
> discussions are a matter of "creeping elegance". Please be careful 
> how you proceed with these individual requests.

I can appreciate the concern here, and this discussion demonstrates
how something very simple in initial concept can have some
far reaching impact. I tend to use 'target date' differently
than most people here, in that if I haven't started a task, it's
the target start date...if I haven't finished it, but I have started
it's the target completion date.

As to Jeff's thought about age...that brings up another whole
nest of interesting possibilities...I'm not sure what the
right answer is, but I agree there is a danger in having a
single field inherit too many possible values. Personally
I still like the idea of allowing start to default to
today, if that option is selected for the file.
1682

From: bikeman@e...
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 6:48pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
I don't agree either. The drag and drop in Shadow is the ONE reason I 
did not purchase the program. 

Jay

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Bob Beveridge" <bbeveridge@y...> wrote:
> I don't agree - if anything, the burst of interest after this topic 
was
> initiated I think shows that lots of people would like a "better" 
drag and
> drop. I just spent a couple of minutes with Arranger, just playing 
around
> with dragging/dropping, and it was a good reminder of how drag & 
drop should
> be - you don't have to concentrate, or learn anything - you just 
start
> dragging, and its obvious how it works, very intuitive. Now I gave 
up
> Arranger for Shadow some time ago, because overall its clearly 
superior, but
> I do miss that feature.
> 
> Bob B.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carolyn Dean" <caro488@y...>
> To: <shadow-discuss@y...>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 7:49 AM
> Subject: RE: [shadow-discuss] Re: Drag and drop?
> 
> 
> > I think you have underestimated the silent majority -
> > they are not discussing it here because it works for
> > them,
> > I had slight trouble at first because some programs
> > drop above where you stop, and some drop below - I
> > considered it MY learning curve...
> >
> > THe whole thing about dropping above the first line is
> > silly. Don't spend time or lose a line to do that.
> > You drop it as number 2, then move number one below it
> > - two steps, but fast and easy...
> > C
> >
> > --- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 30%
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
1683

From: Dave Lowe  <davelowe_99@y...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 7:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
FWIW, I don't use drag and drop much because:

1. I have a Sony Clie and I use the hires assist feature with Shadow because
I like the fonts. However, hires assist and Shadow don't get along all that
well and during a drag the screen gets scrambled.

2. Scrolling off the top or bottom of the screen is very slow. I usually get
frustrated in a long drag and lift the pen, droping the item in the wrong
place.

3. My Clie touch screen requires some force to retain contact for a drag. I
sometimes let up on the pressure and accidently drop the item in the wrong
place.

4. I don't like draging my stylus across the screen if I can help it. The
screen is too easily scratched and I don't like the screen protectors.

Some things are fixable others are just my preference.

Dave
1684

From: rgarden@g...
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 7:49pm
Subject: New From ToDo by Category?

 
Greetings,
Currently I am using Shadow 1.5.0.
According to the manual, when I select
"New From...ToDo", I get a list of all the 
ToDo items of the current week.  I would
like to be able to see a list of all the
ToDos of a particular category.
Is there a version of Shadow that will let
me do this?

Thanks in advance,
Robin G
1685

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:06pm
Subject: Re: New From ToDo by Category?

 
On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 rgarden@g... wrote:

> Currently I am using Shadow 1.5.0.
> According to the manual, when I select
> "New From...ToDo", I get a list of all the 
> ToDo items of the current week.  I would
> like to be able to see a list of all the
> ToDos of a particular category.
> Is there a version of Shadow that will let
> me do this?

	Currently it doesn't show todos by category .. I'll likely be
adding that in the future, though.

	BTW, current version is 1.5.6, and current public beta is 1.5.12
:)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1686

From: Roy van der Woning  <rvdw@x...>
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 0:06am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
Fact is that I don't use drag & drop because it's counter-intuitive 
to me personally. I've always loved and sworn by the ListMaker 
paradigm, where indicators would appear "on the spot", as opposed to 
having a combination of a top-of-the-screen and a row-level 
indicator. I feel that there should be one single indicator, showing 
where the item is going to be inserted when I drop it.

Sorry to rain on your parade. :)

Roy.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use
> it, is it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I
> love it, and I think its great.. but looks like the majority
> certainly don't like it. *sniff*)
> 
> 	I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks
> wish to lose a line of item text, so that everything could be
> spaced out more, so that when draging up and down there'd be space
> to draw a line in between?
1687

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:23am
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, Roy van der Woning wrote:

> Fact is that I don't use drag & drop because it's counter-intuitive 
> to me personally. I've always loved and sworn by the ListMaker 
> paradigm, where indicators would appear "on the spot", as opposed to 
> having a combination of a top-of-the-screen and a row-level 
> indicator. I feel that there should be one single indicator, showing 
> where the item is going to be inserted when I drop it.

	The Shadow indicator shows almost exactly where it will show up,
though -- it shows where the item will begin. It gives more information
that in other apps -- it shows that the item will be a child or sibling by
its level of indent, and exactly where it will insert. So I got you
covered there, I think :)

	I'm assuming you would just rather have a horizontal line that you
just can't miss, over a little target thing that blends in?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1688

From: paul_mckeon@y...
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 3:53am
Subject: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
Dear Jeff

I'd value a keystroke short-cut (/Z maybe?) to Zoom/Unzoom on long 
lists with children, grandchildren, great-granchildren etc (without 
having to change to view it as a flat list).

Also, an earlier post mentioned the ability to see progress on linked 
lists - I'd like to second that request.

Kind regards

Paul
1689

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 11:54am
Subject: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 paul_mckeon@y... wrote:

> I'd value a keystroke short-cut (/Z maybe?) to Zoom/Unzoom on long 
> lists with children, grandchildren, great-granchildren etc (without 
> having to change to view it as a flat list).

	There would have to be two keys, since you can at any time zoom or
unzoom (toggling doesn't make sense.. how can it tell if you wish to zoom
more, or unzoom?) Got two key suggestions?

> Also, an earlier post mentioned the ability to see progress on linked 
> lists - I'd like to second that request.

	That won't happen for awhile; its a lot of work to get right, and
may be a high load on the little palm processor so could even be
slow.. still, a ways off though.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1690

From: paul_mckeon@y...
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
Working through the unused letters from A, maybe /I for unzoom 
and /z for zoom> Thank for responding. Paul


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 paul_mckeon@y... wrote:
> 
> > I'd value a keystroke short-cut (/Z maybe?) to Zoom/Unzoom 
on long 
> > lists with children, grandchildren, great-granchildren etc 
(without 
> > having to change to view it as a flat list).
> 
> 	There would have to be two keys, since you can at any time 
zoom or
> unzoom (toggling doesn't make sense.. how can it tell if you 
wish to zoom
> more, or unzoom?) Got two key suggestions?
> 
> > Also, an earlier post mentioned the ability to see progress on 
linked 
> > lists - I'd like to second that request.
> 
> 	That won't happen for awhile; its a lot of work to get right, and
> may be a high load on the little palm processor so could even 
be
> slow.. still, a ways off though.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he 
calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1691

From: Demetrios  <demetrios@c...>
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:28pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

 
So you're saying that it's "counter-intuitive" because it helps 
you too much? If you're easily confused, just ignore the indicator at 
the top. That still leaves the row "spotter" that tells you pretty 
much exactly where it's going. What more do y'all want, someone to 
come hold your hand and show you how it's done?

   Jeff, why waste your time and energy {not to mention a valuable  
line of text} just because people want every program to be exactly 
alike so they don't have to take the time to RtFM or to bother trying 
to figure out how each program is unique. If you're gonna go that 
far, how about all you programers getting together and agreeing on 
one set of shoutcuts. I mean, you know how many split-seconds it 
costs me every time I have to remember what each /command means what 
in which program?

   So, Jeff, keep up the good work and stop wasting your time trying 
to reduce to it's lowest common denominator, a really great, very 
easy to use {if you bother to spend a few minutes getting to know it 
and maybe even read the manual} program.

Again, thanks for a great program, Jeff;

Demetrios, 
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Roy van der Woning" <rvdw@x> wrote:
> Fact is that I don't use drag & drop because it's counter-intuitive 
> to me personally. I've always loved and sworn by the ListMaker 
> paradigm, where indicators would appear "on the spot", as opposed 
to 
> having a combination of a top-of-the-screen and a row-level 
> indicator. I feel that there should be one single indicator, 
showing 
> where the item is going to be inserted when I drop it.
> 
> Sorry to rain on your parade. :)
> 
> Roy.
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use
> > it, is it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I
> > love it, and I think its great.. but looks like the majority
> > certainly don't like it. *sniff*)
> > 
> > 	I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks
> > wish to lose a line of item text, so that everything could be
> > spaced out more, so that when draging up and down there'd be space
> > to draw a line in between?
1692

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

 
Demetrios wrote:
 >>If you're gonna go that far, how about all you programers getting 
together and agreeing on one set of shoutcuts<<

Actually, that would be a smart thing to do-- why up the learning curve for 
the things that are the same from program to program? Leave the learning 
curves for the unique items.

o.

At 09:28 AM 07/17/2001, you wrote:
>    So you're saying that it's "counter-intuitive" because it helps
>you too much? If you're easily confused, just ignore the indicator at
>the top. That still leaves the row "spotter" that tells you pretty
>much exactly where it's going. What more do y'all want, someone to
>come hold your hand and show you how it's done?
>
>    Jeff, why waste your time and energy {not to mention a valuable
>line of text} just because people want every program to be exactly
>alike so they don't have to take the time to RtFM or to bother trying
>to figure out how each program is unique. If you're gonna go that
>far, how about all you programers getting together and agreeing on
>one set of shoutcuts. I mean, you know how many split-seconds it
>costs me every time I have to remember what each /command means what
>in which program?
>
>    So, Jeff, keep up the good work and stop wasting your time trying
>to reduce to it's lowest common denominator, a really great, very
>easy to use {if you bother to spend a few minutes getting to know it
>and maybe even read the manual} program.
>
>Again, thanks for a great program, Jeff;
>
>Demetrios,
1693

From: verxion@p...
Date: Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:35pm
Subject: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
Why now capital Z and lower case z?  Seems like Z would go in, and z would go out.  Seems to make sense to me.

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	There would have to be two keys, since you can at any time zoom or
> unzoom (toggling doesn't make sense.. how can it tell if you wish to zoom
> more, or unzoom?) Got two key suggestions?
1694

From: rayae@y...
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:45am
Subject: Details View

 
I recently was using Shadowplan to take notes in a meeting and 
thought a few minor additions to the 'Details' View of an outline 
item would make note taking easier:

From the Outline view there are 3 menu items (with command shortcuts) 
that would be very useful in the 'Details' view:

command: A (add/edit note) 
  (I know this one is a button, but I find command shortcuts easier 
when I am trying to do grafitti.)

command: H (new child)
command: N (new item)

Allow the Page up/down (hard keys) to move to siblings above and 
below the selected item instead of stopping at the top or bottom of 
the item text.

Andrew
1695

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> Why now capital Z and lower case z?  Seems like Z would go in, and z
> would go out.  Seems to make sense to me.

	Z and Shift-Z are used to enter a new item beginning with Z; I
don't think conmtrol-Z and control-shift-Z woudl be liked be too many
people?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1696

From: Bob Noe  <bnoe@c...>
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
Hmm... I actually liked the idea some.... and I assumed the control part of
it would be there.

With MiddleCapsHack its as easy as any other pair of letters and a bit
easier to remember.

Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version


> On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
>
> > Why now capital Z and lower case z?  Seems like Z would go in, and z
> > would go out.  Seems to make sense to me.
>
> Z and Shift-Z are used to enter a new item beginning with Z; I
> don't think conmtrol-Z and control-shift-Z woudl be liked be too many
> people?
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
1697

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:41pm
Subject: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
Yeah, I didn't explicitly list it, but I intended for the control part to be there still.  So control-z control-shift-z.

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Bob Noe" <bnoe@c...> wrote:
> Hmm... I actually liked the idea some.... and I assumed the control part of
> it would be there.
> 
> With MiddleCapsHack its as easy as any other pair of letters and a bit
> easier to remember.
> 
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
> To: <shadow-discuss@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version
> 
> 
> > On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> >
> > > Why now capital Z and lower case z?  Seems like Z would go in, and z
> > > would go out.  Seems to make sense to me.
> >
> > Z and Shift-Z are used to enter a new item beginning with Z; I
> > don't think conmtrol-Z and control-shift-Z woudl be liked be too many
> > people?
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
1698

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:56pm
Subject: Re: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> Yeah, I didn't explicitly list it, but I intended for the control part
> to be there still.  So control-z control-shift-z.

	I dunno; it has a bad feel for me. I can do it if people want it,
but it stills feels funny :)

		jeff

> 
> -Joe Chott
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Bob Noe" <bnoe@c...> wrote:
> > Hmm... I actually liked the idea some.... and I assumed the control part of
> > it would be there.
> > 
> > With MiddleCapsHack its as easy as any other pair of letters and a bit
> > easier to remember.
> > 
> > Bob
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
> > To: <shadow-discuss@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version
> > 
> > 
> > > On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> > >
> > > > Why now capital Z and lower case z?  Seems like Z would go in, and z
> > > > would go out.  Seems to make sense to me.
> > >
> > > Z and Shift-Z are used to enter a new item beginning with Z; I
> > > don't think conmtrol-Z and control-shift-Z woudl be liked be too many
> > > people?
> > >
> > > jeff
> > >
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1699

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:55pm
Subject: Re: Details View

 
On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 rayae@y... wrote:

> I recently was using Shadowplan to take notes in a meeting and 
> thought a few minor additions to the 'Details' View of an outline 
> item would make note taking easier:

	You mean the list view mode (in my terms)? The "detail view" is
after you hit the Details button and are inspecting a single
item.. I(below I thoguht youmeant list view, but realize you really did
mean detail view after)

> command: A (add/edit note) 
>   (I know this one is a button, but I find command shortcuts easier 
> when I am trying to do grafitti.)

	Already present; be sure to use 1.5.6 or 1.5.12, though I think
this shortcut was in earlier versions too?

> command: H (new child)
> command: N (new item)

	These have always been present.

	I must assume you mean for these to work inside of the Detail
window then .. you wish to be able to keep adding to a list, even though
you're in the details window of an item?

	Hmmm. Anyone else?

> Allow the Page up/down (hard keys) to move to siblings above and 
> below the selected item instead of stopping at the top or bottom of 
> the item text.

	The cursor is auto placed into the text fields so that you can
begin typing quickly once you summon Details. How the keys interact inside
of that field is set -- I prefer not to change the behaviour, since
they're Palm standard and it oculd break hacks and things to meddle.. 

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
1700

From: smasters@a...
Date: Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:16pm
Subject: Re: Short cut to Zoom/UnZoom - Palm version

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	I dunno; it has a bad feel for me. I can do it if people want 
it, but it stills feels funny :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > > With MiddleCapsHack its as easy as any other pair of letters 
and a bit
> > > easier to remember.
> > > 
> > > Bob

Jeff,
I have to admit that I do not use this feature too often, so I don't 
have strong feeling one way or another on how it works. I would 
caution against changes that are based on "being easy to do with 
*Hack". People do not always want to load hacks on their device.

Since I am fairly new to Palm, is the "Ctrl" key synonymous with the 
Forward slash movement in the grafitti area? Thanks for the help.

Scott
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