From: smasters@a...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:59pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

I agree completely with Joe, and Jeff your level of committment still 
amazes me. Have you read Tom Peters, or did he just use you as an 
when he thought up WOW! Thanks

Scott


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use 
it, is
> it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, 
and I
> think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
> it. *sniff*)
> 
> 	I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks 
wish to
> lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out 
more, so
> that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in 
between?
> 
> 		jfeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Marcia  <creink@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:04pm
Subject: RE: Item age?

***YES*YES*YES*** (ya think I really need that!!??!!)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:20 AM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Item age?
>
>
>
> 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
> Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
>
> 		jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

Jeff wrote:
 >>How is it difficult, specifically? Give it a shot and let me know. Is it 
just dragging to the top, or in general, or what?<

I'm not Bear, but here's what I can tell you:

- There's a learning curve for Shadow's drag and drop compared to other 
apps-- you can't just easily grab an item and put it just where you want 
it. This is something you have to learn and practice to gain that infamous 
muscle memory, so it becomes second nature.

- When you're first learning Shadow's drag and drop, you're not sure how to 
make it do what you want, so there's hesitation. If you hesitate, all kinds 
of other stuff happens. Sometimes that little popup-details thing happens, 
sometimes you actually end up in the Details window, and you can rarely get 
your item to promote/demote.

- It took me forever to figure out that the "Sibling and Child" guides were 
active at the top of the screen, because I was concentrating on moving my 
item and getting it to stay where I was putting it. If things stay the way 
they are, clearer, emphasized documentation would be very helpful to get 
people up to speed faster

- I love being able to use the Graffiti to promote/demote and actually use 
this as much or more than dragging to promote/demote items

- The bottom line for most is that there shouldn't be any effort to the 
drag and drop operation. People will be happy if they can use it with a 
really "light hand" without having to think about it.

o.

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:07pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

Scott wrote:
 >>Jeff your level of committment still amazes me.<<

An AOL-style MeeeTooo! from me!

o.

From: solmar@l...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 9:53pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

My Vote: I do find drag and drop a bit awkward, with the pop up screen
showing up before I've managed to move something or else I just screw up
with it ending up in the wrong spot. I agree being able to drag to the top
would help, a space in between would also help. A " move to.." command
would be great! I do think learning to use all your shortcuts (including
the copy multiples) would alleviate many other problems as I am sometimes
moving a whole list, and dragging and dropping becomes very tedious.  Joyce

From: solmar@l...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 10:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

>But I would ask for a numeric field by item that could be used for time
>length or money, and could be totalised at each level

THIS would be REALLY cool! Or could you put in as a display pref: numeric
vs custom text vs priority vs auto-aging, etc...? Would really like the
ability to total a column. Asking for the moon :-) Joyce

From: ext555@p...
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 10:27pm
Subject: Re: Item age?

I'll add my request for this --(you've referred to it previously as 
misc. text field) but the numbering that could be totaled by level 
would be even better!

Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., solmar@l... wrote:
> 
> >But I would ask for a numeric field by item that could be used for 
time
> >length or money, and could be totalised at each level
> 
> THIS would be REALLY cool! Or could you put in as a display pref: 
numeric
> vs custom text vs priority vs auto-aging, etc...? Would really like 
the
> ability to total a column. Asking for the moon :-) Joyce

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 11:23pm
Subject: Re: Item age?

Actually I'd like something like that too...one of my lists
is of restaurants around the country, and I'd like to know
when I add them.

I use target date today, but it would be nice to automatically
record the creation date.

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> 
> 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
> Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Fri Jul 13, 2001 11:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

How about an option to automatically record the creation date
into the start date field? The option could be at the list
level.

Quoting smasters@a... (smasters@a...):
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date 
> (like
> > Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> > determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> Could he not just use start date? Personally I would rather not have 
> a fourth date field cluttering the details display, but it's not 
> something that I'm going to put up a fight over. 
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:40am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
activated?)

		jeff

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Learned wrote:

> How about an option to automatically record the creation date
> into the start date field? The option could be at the list
> level.
> 
> Quoting smasters@a... (smasters@a...):
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date 
> > (like
> > > Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> > > determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > Could he not just use start date? Personally I would rather not have 
> > a fourth date field cluttering the details display, but it's not 
> > something that I'm going to put up a fight over. 
> > 
> > Scott
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Ginger Carter  <gardenbug1971@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:03am
Subject: RE: Item age?

What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow for a
bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to see
the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it off
for waaay to long.

Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa


>>>I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?

            jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:04am
Subject: RE: Item age?

You mean you wish tohave a optional finish date column, then?

		jeff

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Ginger Carter wrote:

> What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
> completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow for a
> bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to see
> the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it off
> for waaay to long.
> 
> Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa
> 
> 
> >>>I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date (like
> Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> 
>             jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:06am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

>Learned wrote:
>
> > How about an option to automatically record the creation date
> > into the start date field? The option could be at the list
> > level.

Jeff wrote:
>         This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
>implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
>activated?)


This idea makes the most sense to me also.
o.

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:15am
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

Yep, drag all the way to the top for top of list, and all the way below for
bottom of the list (it might already do this, I've never tried).

Ken

on 7/13/01 2:11pm, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> 
> Soooooo..
> 
> If I make it so you drag above the list entirely, it goes to the
> top, does that make everyone happy? Or must I make a better drag
> indicator? (trying to narrow down what I need to do..)
> 
> jeff
> 
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Becca wrote:
> 
>> At 7:01 PM +0000 7/13/01, verxion@p... wrote:
>>> The way drag and drop works right now is awesome unless I am dealing
>>> with the top of the list.  I cannot -*EVER*- drag a lower item up to
>>> the top.  I have to drag the top down, and this just seems backwards
>>> to me.
>> 
>> That is it exactly! Thanks for posting something in better detail
>> than my "I can't get it to work right, either" post :).
>> 
>> -- 
>> Becca :)
>> 

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:19am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age? / Date stuff

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> >         This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> >implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
> >activated?)
> 
> This idea makes the most sense to me also.

	OKay, so what about these:

	When making a new item, that happens to be a child to some parent,
should the child always inherit finish date (if parent is finished, child
is also finished), target date (so that filters make more sense), and
start date (since by default it shoudl start in the same region as the
parent, and not just be undefined?)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:48am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

I use it all the time. There *is* a learning curve, but once 
mastered, it's incredibly easy to ensure things go into the right 
spot.  In fact, I think that it's *easier* to use than most other 
programs, because there's no question what level the item is going to 
be dropped at, as long as you *pay attention* to the Sibling/Child 
status on top.  I got frustrated with other programs since, during 
the dragging motion, the demote/promote line is usually always 
invisible, so when I would lift my stylus on what I *thought* was one 
side of the line, quite often it would end up on the other side and 
my item would wind up in the wrong spot.  Because of this, I find the 
Shadow method superior.

So I vote to keep the UI as it is, but add the drag-to-top while 
still allowing drag-to-bottom.  I would also suggest, like others 
have, that you add a Move option (ala LB).  This makes moving an item 
in a large outline much easier (yes, even easier than cut and paste, 
because your outline can remain expanded, but you don't have to 
scroll through it to get to your destination).

Greg

From: Ginger Carter  <gardenbug1971@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:57am
Subject: RE: Item age?

yes, I have several lists that include daily, weekly, and monthly items. I
would like to see the finish date without having to go into the detail for
each item.

thanks,
Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa

        You mean you wish tohave a optional finish date column, then?

              jeff

  On Fri, 13 Jul 2001, Ginger Carter wrote:

  > What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
  > completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow
for a
  > bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to
see
  > the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it
off
  > for waaay to long.
  >
  > Ginger in Lynnwood, Wa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Marcia  <creink@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:18am
Subject: RE: Re: Item age?

I would really like to see a creation date column altho it probably should
be a preference.  I need to know the date when some actions are started and
then keep a running date as to how it's progressing.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: smasters@a... [mailto:smasters@a...]
> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 1:04 PM
> To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Item age?
>
>
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >
> > 	I have a request to allow a custom column for Creation date
> (like
> > Target date column you can activate). The lad wishes to be able to
> > determine item's age from its creation date... Does anyone care?
> >
> > 		jeff
> >
> Could he not just use start date? Personally I would rather not have
> a fourth date field cluttering the details display, but it's not
> something that I'm going to put up a fight over.
>
> Scott
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 6:36am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

At 22:40 13/07/2001 -0400, Jeff wrote:

>This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
>implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
>activated?)

Doesn't make sense to me (my use): I like to enter *future* date : ie 
"don't bother before !"

But as long as it would be an option, I don't mind ;-)=

J.

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 6:45am
Subject: RE: Item age?

At 20:03 13/07/2001 -0700, Ginger wrote:

>What I would like to have the option to see is the last time a task was
>completed. I know I can see that on the details page, but I use Shadow for a
>bunch of household stuff (chores, etc.) and I would like to be able to see
>the last time I finished something, so I can see if I've been putting it off
>for waaay to long.


Couldn't you copy the task in your datebook ?
And if you have Datebk4, log automatically the date by a link to a Chore in 
the adress book (category "household stuff", for instance).

I think Shadow+Dbk4 make a system, and I try to use them so ;-)


Jacques

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 9:51am
Subject: ToDo date

Wish :

When I link to ToDo Database, could there be an option (List pref or Shadow 
pref) to set the new ToDo with Start Date instead of Target date ?

The use :

For important deadlines I would so generate alerts for next outcomes.
It would appear in DateBk4 when the start date occurs and remind me it's 
time to plan it in detailed action items (split, allocate time or 
delegate). When planned, I would substitute planned items (fixed, floats, 
or todos) and delete from ToDos, but keep it as a parent in Shadow (severe 
the broken ToDo link).

Thanks,

Jacques

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:04am
Subject: Promote/demote in menu ?

For promote demote, I find easiest is Space/Backspace (either graffiti/ 
FitalyStamp or PPK).

I wonder why you maintain two taps shortcuts /Q and /W for the same in the 
menu ? Someday you'll bring shortcuts for any features, so they could 
become usefull for other features (each release of Shadow, I already 
add-change  many shorcuts in the menu : expand / collapse items|Notes, Zoom 
inside/unzoom...)


BTW: I seldom use drag/drop, with all these mails I tried : I feel at ease, 
and believe I'll use it more.

Jacques

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:16am
Subject: Direct shortcuts?

I never use New and Child buttons, because of direct entry (and then, 
enventually [space] ).

But I understand why you keep them displayed (new users).

So, I was thinking of an option (Shad Pref):

Either:

a.
Direct entry
As now, when you tap, it creates an item

b.
Direct shortcut
If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)

What about it ?


Jacques

PS - I hear a lot of nice things about Natara Bonsaļ. But I'm so pleased 
(the more I use, the more I'm pleased) with Shadow I don't even look at it 
, And won't .... if it's not a too long wait for Shadow basic Desktop ;-))

From: hisimage8@y...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 10:40am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use 
it, is
> it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, 
and I
> think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
> it. *sniff*)
 
Jeff, I'll take a stab at answering why I don't use drag and drop 
much.  And I'll add at the beginning that the "drag and drop" being 
hard to use is the reason that I also was drawn to both LB and 
Bonsai, although their wonderful, smooth drag-n-drop wasn't enough to 
counter all the remarkable features Shadow has. 

It is not only the not-being-able-to-drag-to-the-top that is very 
frustrating until you figure out how to work around it.  I also had 
trouble for quite a while getting it to line up (indented or not) the 
way I wanted it to.  The little indicators at the top just didn't 
seem to work for me in the beginning, although I think I usually get 
it right now.  The biggest thing, though, and the reason that I still 
don't use it as much as I'd like, is because I  often lost my item 
when I did this.  I think that sometimes I was accidentally checking 
it off instead of moving it (if I had a checkbox in front) and since 
I usually filter for checked items it would be hidden; sometimes it 
would just disappear and I'd _never_ find it.  If it's a single item, 
that's not too much of a headache, but if it had children I'd get 
semi-upset.  Now that we're able to chose item by item "type" I make 
my parents non-checkable and that makes them much safer to drag-n-
drop.  I also make use of my keyboard commands to indent or outdent 
if I drag it incorrectly.  

Hope this helps a little.  It's a small thing to me now but I admit 
that when I was comparing the outliners it did make me hesitate 
because others were doing it so elegantly. 

Patricia

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:03pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> be dropped at, as long as you *pay attention* to the Sibling/Child 
> status on top.  I got frustrated with other programs since, during 
> the dragging motion, the demote/promote line is usually always 
> invisible, so when I would lift my stylus on what I *thought* was one 
> side of the line, quite often it would end up on the other side and 
> my item would wind up in the wrong spot.  Because of this, I find the 
> Shadow method superior.

	I may make the drag to top work, and maybe do somethign about the
drop-indicator .. but essentially leave it the same. We'll see :)

> So I vote to keep the UI as it is, but add the drag-to-top while 
> still allowing drag-to-bottom.  I would also suggest, like others 
> have, that you add a Move option (ala LB).  This makes moving an item 
> in a large outline much easier (yes, even easier than cut and paste, 
> because your outline can remain expanded, but you don't have to 
> scroll through it to get to your destination).

	How does move work? Select a unit, hit move, then tap where you
want it to go?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:06pm
Subject: Re: ToDo date

I don't know what to do about this.. many people want to have
target as the linking date.. some others want start. It'd be pretty
confusing to have an item level option to do this one way or another
.. (and it'd have to be permanent, since Shadow woudl bneed to know which
field to sync against later)...  You coudl always create more items, like
"Begin task such and such", and use the target date as the start date, but
thats pretty ugly..

	I'm afraid there are so many different ways to use the date fields
that its difficult to make good choices about features for them :/

		jeff

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> Wish :
> 
> When I link to ToDo Database, could there be an option (List pref or Shadow 
> pref) to set the new ToDo with Start Date instead of Target date ?
> 
> The use :
> 
> For important deadlines I would so generate alerts for next outcomes.
> It would appear in DateBk4 when the start date occurs and remind me it's 
> time to plan it in detailed action items (split, allocate time or 
> delegate). When planned, I would substitute planned items (fixed, floats, 
> or todos) and delete from ToDos, but keep it as a parent in Shadow (severe 
> the broken ToDo link).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jacques
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:07pm
Subject: Re: Promote/demote in menu ?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> For promote demote, I find easiest is Space/Backspace (either graffiti/ 
> FitalyStamp or PPK).
> 
> I wonder why you maintain two taps shortcuts /Q and /W for the same in the 

	They were originally these shortcuts and later got the
space/backspace shortcuts .. so why discontinue the old functionality
until such time we need to reclaim those letter shortcuts? :) Also,
they're easier seen in the menu.. you can't put backspace or space in the
menu shortcut hint...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:09pm
Subject: Re: Direct shortcuts?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> a.
> Direct entry
> As now, when you tap, it creates an item
> 
> b.
> Direct shortcut
> If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
> To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
> ... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)

	I'm confused? You mean a row of buttons like:

KNH

	And if you hit the N it would be like hitting a new button? The
point is just to reduce button size?

	Eventually I'll add an expert bar that removes the buttons and
puts in icons or something, but so little time :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:12pm
Subject: Culmination..

So after a couple dozen emails..

	Is this *always* desirable:

	New Child:
		"Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
		Parents Finish date goes to finish date
		Parents Target date goes to target date

	Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: loraneb@u...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:01pm
Subject: Re: Item age?

Yes, put my vote in for creation date!

Lorane

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if 
pref
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: farmerwl@b...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great addition to 
my 
> business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have that 
would 
> help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> 
> - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). For 
> instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow key 
> moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the filtered 
ones... 

I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" but 
the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very useful app.

Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.

Bink

From: Lexi Schwartz  <cgs93458@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:42pm
Subject: RE: Drag and drop?

It drove me nuts, I was doing it but not realizing that it was actually
moving the item (like when I was moving something up one spot).  Then
reading the manual, I just "trusted it, and voila, it worked")  I
occassionally do have to play with it and keep my eye on the demote icon at
the top.

Lexi
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Don Kurre [mailto:reo@n...]
  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:33 AM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop?


  Jeff, I like Drag and Drop but I do have trouble making it work. Perhaps I
  need to use it more often.
  Don
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
  To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 1:23 PM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop?


  >
  > How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use it, is
  > it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, and I
  > think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
  > it. *sniff*)
  >
  > I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks wish to
  > lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out more,
so
  > that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in
between?
  >
  > jfeff
  >
  > --
  > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
  >
  >
  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
  >
  >
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Lexi Schwartz  <cgs93458@y...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:44pm
Subject: RE: Drag and drop?

Yes.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
  Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:24 AM
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Drag and drop?



        How many people use Drag and Drop? For those who don't use it, is
  it because of the "not so intuitive" drop indicator? (I love it, and I
  think its great.. but looks like the majority certainly don't like
  it. *sniff*)

        I asked once before, but its left my memory .. would folks wish to
  lose a line of item text, so that everything could be spaced out more, so
  that when draging up and down there'd be space to draw a line in between?

              jfeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com



  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Lynda G  <4kidsmom@h...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:39pm
Subject: RE: Culmination..

Sounds lovely!
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:40pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

on 7/14/01 8:03 am, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:
> 
[snip]
>> So I vote to keep the UI as it is, but add the drag-to-top while
>> still allowing drag-to-bottom.  I would also suggest, like others
>> have, that you add a Move option (ala LB).  This makes moving an item
>> in a large outline much easier (yes, even easier than cut and paste,
>> because your outline can remain expanded, but you don't have to
>> scroll through it to get to your destination).
> 
> How does move work? Select a unit, hit move, then tap where you
> want it to go?
> 

In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new form. In
that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the direct
parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to display the
contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, and press the
OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).

I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I really like
LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time that I
need to move something more than about three lines on screen.

Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:42pm
Subject: Re: Culmination..

on 7/14/01 8:12 am, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> 
> So after a couple dozen emails..
> 
> Is this *always* desirable:
> 
> New Child:
> "Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> Parents Target date goes to target date
> 
> Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> 
> 

I assume that these would be default values, and we could still change them
to whatever we wanted to, if we needed to?

If so, it sounds reasonable to me.

Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 4:48pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

Drop and Drag works fine for me now, but being able to drag to the 
top would be a nice addition. I think the indicators are very 
helpful. The only other addition to drop and drag that I would like 
would be (the difficult) split screen and drag to another file.

Just (finally) downloaded 1.5.6 and tried the item type 
customization -- It's GREAT!! Solves a bunch of problems. The major 
complaint I have is the files switching catagories on a global find. 
Really annoying......

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Soooooo..
> 
> 	If I make it so you drag above the list entirely, it goes to 
the
> top, does that make everyone happy? Or must I make a better drag
> indicator? (trying to narrow down what I need to do..)
> 
> 		jeff
>

From: ext555@p...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:52pm
Subject: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

Yes, Lap Top hack works GREAT  with Shadow--almost all features are 
possible stylus free. (I use a PPK) the only thing LTH can't do is 
pick a file off the list to open--you still have to tap on the one 
you want, but LTH can open the file once it's highlighted.

JEFF--since the Promote and Demote menu shortcuts aren't really 
necessary, would it be possible to use one of the letters to activate 
the highlight option?

thanks, 
Paul 
 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., farmerwl@b... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> > Jeff,
> > 
> > I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great addition 
to 
> my 
> > business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have that 
> would 
> > help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> > 
> > - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). For 
> > instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow key 
> > moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the filtered 
> ones... 
> 
> I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" but 
> the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very useful 
app.
> 
> Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.
> 
> Bink

From: jacques@t...
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Direct shortcuts?

At 10:09 14/07/2001 -0400, you wrote:
Sorry if I made you confused, I was unclear:

What I called "Direct shortcut" was to just an option to enter (graffiti or 
keyboard) the shortcut "Character" instead of "[Command]Character": when 
you use a lot shortcuts it makes a difference ;-)

Some apps can be operated like this (DiddleBug, DrawIt).
I'm not at all asking for new buttons (I would rather suppress New and 
Child ;-))

Thanks for your hard work,

Jacques

.

> > Two options:
>a.
> > Direct entry
> > As now, when you tap, it creates an item
> >
> > b.
> > Direct shortcut
> > If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
> > To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
> > ... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)
>
>         I'm confused? You mean a row of buttons like:
>
>KNH
>
>         And if you hit the N it would be like hitting a new button? The
>point is just to reduce button size?

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:18pm
Subject: Re: Re: Item age?

Quoting jacques@t... (jacques@t...):
> At 22:40 13/07/2001 -0400, Jeff wrote:
> 
> >This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> >implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
> >activated?)
> 
> Doesn't make sense to me (my use): I like to enter *future* date : ie 
> "don't bother before !"

Wouldn't a future date be entered into the target field?

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Ken Scott wrote:

> In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new form. In
> that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the direct
> parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to display the
> contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, and press the
> OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).
> 
> I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I really like
> LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time that I
> need to move something more than about three lines on screen.

	This seems easily done, but also seems wasteful; ie: We already
have a full screen display widget in the lsit view. Why build another for
moving? Just cut/copy and then move/paste -- its infinitely more flexible,
since it uses the standard interface, and allows more functionality since
you can move to anotehr list, then. Using the above, you have to build a
second whole interface for maneauvering around the list. Seems very
wasteful..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

Theres no other letter you'd like to use, thats free?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 ext555@p... wrote:

> Yes, Lap Top hack works GREAT  with Shadow--almost all features are 
> possible stylus free. (I use a PPK) the only thing LTH can't do is 
> pick a file off the list to open--you still have to tap on the one 
> you want, but LTH can open the file once it's highlighted.
> 
> JEFF--since the Promote and Demote menu shortcuts aren't really 
> necessary, would it be possible to use one of the letters to activate 
> the highlight option?
> 
> thanks, 
> Paul 
>  
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., farmerwl@b... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> > > Jeff,
> > > 
> > > I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great addition 
> to 
> > my 
> > > business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have that 
> > would 
> > > help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> > > 
> > > - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). For 
> > > instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow key 
> > > moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the filtered 
> > ones... 
> > 
> > I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" but 
> > the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very useful 
> app.
> > 
> > Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.
> > 
> > Bink
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:46pm
Subject: Re: Direct shortcuts?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jacques@t... wrote:

> What I called "Direct shortcut" was to just an option to enter (graffiti or 
> keyboard) the shortcut "Character" instead of "[Command]Character": when 
> you use a lot shortcuts it makes a difference ;-)

	Naaah; its already pretty standard for applications to just start
writing into a text field when you enter characters, hence why it starts a
new item now.

> Some apps can be operated like this (DiddleBug, DrawIt).
> I'm not at all asking for new buttons (I would rather suppress New and 
> Child ;-))
> 
> Thanks for your hard work,
> 
> Jacques
> 
> .
> 
> > > Two options:
> >a.
> > > Direct entry
> > > As now, when you tap, it creates an item
> > >
> > > b.
> > > Direct shortcut
> > > If you tap "K" it would trigger /K shortcut (as in DiddleBug or DrawIt),
> > > To create an item you would tap "New" or "Child" button,
> > > ... or "N" or "H" (that would then be alike !)
> >
> >         I'm confused? You mean a row of buttons like:
> >
> >KNH
> >
> >         And if you hit the N it would be like hitting a new button? The
> >point is just to reduce button size?
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jul 14, 2001 11:53pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 jrs22@o... wrote:

> <FontFamily><param>Times New Roman</param><bigger>On 13 Jul 2001, at 14:23, Jeff Mitchell wrote:
> 
> I've never been able to make it work.  I considered 
> switching to another outliner just for this purpose, 
> but you're improving all other aspects of the program 
> so I hoped that eventually you'd get around to this.

	It works 100% perfectly as I designed it; you just need to learn
how to use it, which I admit is a failing of mine -- I thought it would be
obvious, but I guess its only obvious to me ;) Check in the manual for
details on how it works. I will be trying to make it easier to use..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Ken Scott  <kscott-list@p...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 0:44am
Subject: Re: Re: Drag and drop?

on 7/14/01 1:41pm, Jeff Mitchell at support@s... wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Ken Scott wrote:
> 
>> In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new form. In
>> that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the direct
>> parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to display the
>> contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, and press the
>> OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).
>> 
>> I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I really like
>> LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time that I
>> need to move something more than about three lines on screen.
> 
> This seems easily done, but also seems wasteful; ie: We already
> have a full screen display widget in the lsit view. Why build another for
> moving? Just cut/copy and then move/paste -- its infinitely more flexible,
> since it uses the standard interface, and allows more functionality since
> you can move to anotehr list, then. Using the above, you have to build a
> second whole interface for maneauvering around the list. Seems very
> wasteful..
> 

Maybe, but I think it's one of those things that has to be experienced. For
me, it's a very easy, natural way to move an item a long way in an outline.
I don't think I've ever tried the cut-n-paste method. I don't tend to do
that a lot on my Palm for some reason.

Anyway, just an idea.

Ken

-- 
<><      Ken Scott   ken@o...   http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott

                This is the day that the Lord has made;
                Let us rejoice and be glad in it          -- Psalm 118:24

From: nevai@m...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:19am
Subject: Re: keyboard support

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., psvincent@m... wrote:
> I wish more developers did.  :)  People tend to gravitate to those 
> who listen... like Steuart Dewar (Datebk4) and Paul Nevai (LapTopHack 
> and pEdit).  With any luck, the market will reward you guys.  I just 

Market reward? I don't care. I care about creating the best I can, and making 
users of my stuff as happy as I can, and proving that the Palm is a serious 
computer.
Best regards, Paul

From: ext555@p...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:52am
Subject: Re: Keybard, Date Management, etc.

I thought it might be easier for you use one that was already on the 
menu list?   Whatever letter you want to use is fine with me : )

Since I've been using shadow more --I realized it's one of the few 
commands you can't activate by PPK--but now that Laptop Hack can 
activate all the menus I can just key over to it--but a command 
letter would make it much easier still ; )

definitely not something that needs any priority on your list. 

keep up the great work! 

Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Theres no other letter you'd like to use, thats free?
> 
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 ext555@p... wrote:
> 
> > Yes, Lap Top hack works GREAT  with Shadow--almost all features 
are 
> > possible stylus free. (I use a PPK) the only thing LTH can't do 
is 
> > pick a file off the list to open--you still have to tap on the 
one 
> > you want, but LTH can open the file once it's highlighted.
> > 
> > JEFF--since the Promote and Demote menu shortcuts aren't really 
> > necessary, would it be possible to use one of the letters to 
activate 
> > the highlight option?
> > 
> > thanks, 
> > Paul 
> >  
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., farmerwl@b... wrote:
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., egroups@R... wrote:
> > > > Jeff,
> > > > 
> > > > I've been using Shadow for a month or so. It's a great 
addition 
> > to 
> > > my 
> > > > business management tools. A couple of suggestions I have 
that 
> > > would 
> > > > help me (and I hope others) use it more effectively:
> > > > 
> > > > - I'd like more keyboard support (I use the GoType keyboard). 
For 
> > > > instance when using a filtered list, pressing the down arrow 
key 
> > > > moves me thru all the items in the list, not just the 
filtered 
> > > ones... 
> > > 
> > > I have not really tested Shadow with a hack titled "LapTopHack" 
but 
> > > the Beta I have now supports menus... pedit is also a very 
useful 
> > app.
> > > 
> > > Oh, LTH gives you controls via keyboard.
> > > 
> > > Bink
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:49am
Subject: RE: Re: Categories rearranging themselves

>I'm seeing this, too. Are you using Linker?
>
>It seems to happen when I leave Shadow with a file open, then use a
>Linker link to get into another Shadow file in another category. Like
>I might be looking at "House Projects" in the Personal category, then
>jump to DateBk4 (via hardware button), then tap a link to "Work
>Projects" which is in the Business category. When I do that, "Work
>Projects" gets moved to the Personal category.
>
>If I close the Shadow file first before leaving Shadow, this is not a
>problem, even if Shadow's file list is showing only the Personal
>category.
>
>Does this match your experience?
>
>Bob


Yes - this is it EXACTLY!  I can now reproduce it every time.



Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: ext555@p...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:03am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

Jeff, in Life Balance--I think the reason they designed the move 
command (I think the second screen is  officially known as the task 
selector?) is because everything in LB is in one outline and moving 
around it can get very cumbersome, dragging up several screens to get 
it where you wanted it to go
--People  have the contents of several shadow files in one LB 
outline. 
 I don't think Shadow needs this and one thing that really made 
shadow hard to use at first was trying to cram too much into one 
file.   Once I discovered the great clipboard you've built into the 
app, and changed my usage to more files, then Shadow became very 
quick and easy to use. 

Just my .02
Paul 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2001, Ken Scott wrote:
> 
> > In LifeBalance, when you select the Move command, you get a new 
form. In
> > that form, you have the item you are currently on with all the 
direct
> > parents of that item. As you tap on an item, it will expand to 
display the
> > contents of that level. Eventually, you choose where you want, 
and press the
> > OK button (there is also a Cancel to bail out).
> > 
> > I don't know if I have done it justice in my description, but I 
really like
> > LB's Move command. It seems very, very natural. I use it any time 
that I
> > need to move something more than about three lines on screen.
> 
> 	This seems easily done, but also seems wasteful; ie: We 
already
> have a full screen display widget in the lsit view. Why build 
another for
> moving? Just cut/copy and then move/paste -- its infinitely more 
flexible,
> since it uses the standard interface, and allows more functionality 
since
> you can move to anotehr list, then. Using the above, you have to 
build a
> second whole interface for maneauvering around the list. Seems very
> wasteful..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:35am
Subject: Importing todos and appts

Is there a way to import only todos that are not currently linked in another
shadow outline?  I often enter things on the fly into the datebook or todo
app, but would like to bring them into shadow as a resource.  Sometimes I
enter a lot of items before I get a chance to sit down with shadow and
organize them.  It would be nice to see only items that are not linked into
shadow anywhere.  Is this an option anywhere?

Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:28am
Subject: Re: ToDo date

All I want is a "DUE" date and have been assuming that "Target" date is the 
same thing. Am I assuming correctly? If so, then that's what I'd want too.

Thanks :-)

Jeff wrote:
>         I don't know what to do about this.. many people want to have
>target as the linking date.. some others want start.

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:59am
Subject: Re: Re: Item age? / Date stuff

You mean if your list is a Task list? I don't use those-- only the ToDo 
type (little bubble checkboxes por moi). If I do use the Task-type list in 
the future I can't imagine that each child of a parent in an outline would 
always inherit the same finish date. What if you need to finish one item 
before you could start the next thing on the list?

o.

---------

At 08:19 PM 07/13/2001, you wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:
>
> > >         This seems to make sense.. anyone else like this? (ie: The
> > >implication being that an item begins as soon as it is created, if pref
> > >activated?)
> >
> > This idea makes the most sense to me also.
>
>         OKay, so what about these:
>
>         When making a new item, that happens to be a child to some parent,
>should the child always inherit finish date (if parent is finished, child
>is also finished), target date (so that filters make more sense), and
>start date (since by default it shoudl start in the same region as the
>parent, and not just be undefined?)
>
>                 jeff

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:01am
Subject: Re: Culmination..

I could buy into it if you exchanged the word "Start" to "Created." <g>

o.

----------

At 07:12 AM 07/14/2001, you wrote:

>         So after a couple dozen emails..
>
>         Is this *always* desirable:
>
>         New Child:
>                 "Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
>                 Parents Finish date goes to finish date
>                 Parents Target date goes to target date
>
>         Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
>
>                 jeff

From: jrs22@o...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:04am
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

On 14 Jul 2001, at 19:53, Jeff Mitchell wrote:

>  It works 100% perfectly as I designed it; you just need to learn how
> to use it, which I admit is a failing of mine -- I thought it would be
> obvious, but I guess its only obvious to me ;) Check in the manual for
> details on how it works. I will be trying to make it easier to use..
> 
>   jeff
> 

So you're too polite to just say - RTFM!  I'll have to read it at home 
so I don't ruin my reputation.

From: opitz@s...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:40pm
Subject: Re: Categories rearranging themselves

Jeff,

I just tried this with 1.5.12, and I'm still getting files AWOL 
from their categories this way.

As for Joe's suggestion, I haven't yet seen someone post a concrete 
example of this problem without Linker, so here's one:

Open a Shadow file, say in the Business category. Now do a global find 
for something you know is in a file in another Shadow category, say 
Unfiled, and tap to jump to it. If you look at the List Preferences, 
you'll see that the category of the file is now changed to Business.

Here's the catch: Shadow seems to have no idea this has happened. So 
if you just close the file without making any changes, it remains in 
the old (Unfiled) category. If you make any change so that Shadow must 
save it, it goes into the changed (Business) category.

I can also get this to happen with Intelligent Find, which uses its 
own search engine (not Palm's). The common thread in the problem seems 
to be: 1) Shadow has a file open, 2) Some OTHER application jumps to a 
record in a file in a different category, 3) You make a change to the 
different file (else the category reverts to the correct one).

Bob


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> 
> > I have had this problem as well, and posted about it some time 
back.  
> > What needs to happen is for someone to come up with a concrete,
> > reproducable example (preferably without linker since I don't 
think
> > Jeff has it).  I don't have time right now or I would.
> 
> 	AFAIK, it at least happens when doing some Palm Global Finds, 
and
> also when using any form of link and resaving (does it still happen 
in
> 1.5.12? I thoguht I fixed some of this..)  Its on my list of things 
to
> look at soon ..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > -Joe Chott
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., opitz@s... wrote:
> > > Gretchen,
> > > 
> > > I'm seeing this, too. Are you using Linker?
> > > 
> > > It seems to happen when I leave Shadow with a file open, then 
use a 
> > > Linker link to get into another Shadow file in another category. 
Like 
> > > I might be looking at "House Projects" in the Personal category, 
then 
> > > jump to DateBk4 (via hardware button), then tap a link to "Work 
> > > Projects" which is in the Business category. When I do that, 
"Work 
> > > Projects" gets moved to the Personal category.
> > > 
> > > If I close the Shadow file first before leaving Shadow, this is 
not a 
> > > problem, even if Shadow's file list is showing only the Personal 
> > > category.
> > > 
> > > Does this match your experience?
> > > 
> > > Bob
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., <drumgirl313@y...> wrote:
> > > > 	I have been watching carefully to make sure this is 
not user 
> > > error on my
> > > > part.  I saw a post earlier that mentioned this as well.  My 
> > > outlines seem
> > > > to migrate into different categories. I have an outline I keep 
in
> > > > 'personal', and it keeps moving to my 'teacher' category from 
time 
> > > to time.
> > > > I can't pinpoint what is causing it, tho.  I am pretty 
positive I am 
> > > not
> > > > accidentally changing the category myself.  Anyone else 
experiencing 
> > > this?
> > > > 
> > > > Gretchen
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:11pm
Subject: Re: Importing todos and appts

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 drumgirl313@y... wrote:

> Is there a way to import only todos that are not currently linked in another
> shadow outline?  I often enter things on the fly into the datebook or todo

	No; for this, for each Todo that is a potential candidate I'd have
to scan through every shadow list to see if it matches anywhere.. consider
looking through 1000 todos, matching against 100 items in shadow
lists.. multiply that out :) Your desktop can do that, but the Palm
cannot. I coudl ultimately put some hints into the todo record, like a
string int he note field to suggest Shadow has already linked it.. but I'm
so far avoiding doing that sort of trickery..

> app, but would like to bring them into shadow as a resource.  Sometimes I
> enter a lot of items before I get a chance to sit down with shadow and
> organize them.  It would be nice to see only items that are not linked into
> shadow anywhere.  Is this an option anywhere?

	I keep a todo category for as yet unfiled things (I use it
separately to the unfiled category, though). So I set my shadow lists to
drop todos into this purgatory, and then I sort through them every few
days and move them to their correct category..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:14pm
Subject: Re: Culmination..

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> I could buy into it if you exchanged the word "Start" to "Created." <g>

	Create date is already stored; just not shown (no one wanted it,
7mo ago when this all started :) I'm wondering if a crteate-date column is
useful.. or if a "age" column is more useful.. to show number of days
since creation. Hmm.

> 
> o.
> 
> ----------
> 
> At 07:12 AM 07/14/2001, you wrote:
> 
> >         So after a couple dozen emails..
> >
> >         Is this *always* desirable:
> >
> >         New Child:
> >                 "Today" (when created) goes to Start Date
> >                 Parents Finish date goes to finish date
> >                 Parents Target date goes to target date
> >
> >         Or isd there a reason anyone doesn't want this?
> >
> >                 jeff
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:15pm
Subject: Re: ToDo date

On Sat, 14 Jul 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> All I want is a "DUE" date and have been assuming that "Target" date is the 
> same thing. Am I assuming correctly? If so, then that's what I'd want too.
> 
> Thanks :-)
> 
> Jeff wrote:
> >         I don't know what to do about this.. many people want to have
> >target as the linking date.. some others want start.

	Target == Due in my mind, but you can relly use them as you like
:) The desktop app will show from start to finish, with a marker at target
so you know when you were/are supposed to finish..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:15pm
Subject: Re: Drag and drop?

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 jrs22@o... wrote:

> >  It works 100% perfectly as I designed it; you just need to learn how
> > to use it, which I admit is a failing of mine -- I thought it would be
> > obvious, but I guess its only obvious to me ;) Check in the manual for
> > details on how it works. I will be trying to make it easier to use..
> 
> So you're too polite to just say - RTFM!  I'll have to read it at home 
> so I don't ruin my reputation.  

	Noo.. reading the manual would help you out; however, having to
read the manual makes it my fault .. its obviously not easy enugh to use
intuitively..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 4:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: Categories rearranging themselves

I know exactly where this problem is.. hopefully I can get a
chance to do some development and fix it soon.. 

		jeff

On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 opitz@s... wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
> I just tried this with 1.5.12, and I'm still getting files AWOL 
> from their categories this way.
> 
> As for Joe's suggestion, I haven't yet seen someone post a concrete 
> example of this problem without Linker, so here's one:
> 
> Open a Shadow file, say in the Business category. Now do a global find 
> for something you know is in a file in another Shadow category, say 
> Unfiled, and tap to jump to it. If you look at the List Preferences, 
> you'll see that the category of the file is now changed to Business.
> 
> Here's the catch: Shadow seems to have no idea this has happened. So 
> if you just close the file without making any changes, it remains in 
> the old (Unfiled) category. If you make any change so that Shadow must 
> save it, it goes into the changed (Business) category.
> 
> I can also get this to happen with Intelligent Find, which uses its 
> own search engine (not Palm's). The common thread in the problem seems 
> to be: 1) Shadow has a file open, 2) Some OTHER application jumps to a 
> record in a file in a different category, 3) You make a change to the 
> different file (else the category reverts to the correct one).
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> > 
> > > I have had this problem as well, and posted about it some time 
> back.  
> > > What needs to happen is for someone to come up with a concrete,
> > > reproducable example (preferably without linker since I don't 
> think
> > > Jeff has it).  I don't have time right now or I would.
> > 
> > 	AFAIK, it at least happens when doing some Palm Global Finds, 
> and
> > also when using any form of link and resaving (does it still happen 
> in
> > 1.5.12? I thoguht I fixed some of this..)  Its on my list of things 
> to
> > look at soon ..
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > > 
> > > -Joe Chott
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., opitz@s... wrote:
> > > > Gretchen,
> > > > 
> > > > I'm seeing this, too. Are you using Linker?
> > > > 
> > > > It seems to happen when I leave Shadow with a file open, then 
> use a 
> > > > Linker link to get into another Shadow file in another category. 
> Like 
> > > > I might be looking at "House Projects" in the Personal category, 
> then 
> > > > jump to DateBk4 (via hardware button), then tap a link to "Work 
> > > > Projects" which is in the Business category. When I do that, 
> "Work 
> > > > Projects" gets moved to the Personal category.
> > > > 
> > > > If I close the Shadow file first before leaving Shadow, this is 
> not a 
> > > > problem, even if Shadow's file list is showing only the Personal 
> > > > category.
> > > > 
> > > > Does this match your experience?
> > > > 
> > > > Bob
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., <drumgirl313@y...> wrote:
> > > > > 	I have been watching carefully to make sure this is 
> not user 
> > > > error on my
> > > > > part.  I saw a post earlier that mentioned this as well.  My 
> > > > outlines seem
> > > > > to migrate into different categories. I have an outline I keep 
> in
> > > > > 'personal', and it keeps moving to my 'teacher' category from 
> time 
> > > > to time.
> > > > > I can't pinpoint what is causing it, tho.  I am pretty 
> positive I am 
> > > > not
> > > > > accidentally changing the category myself.  Anyone else 
> experiencing 
> > > > this?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Gretchen
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 6:39pm
Subject: Re: ToDo date

oooieoo@k... wrote:
 > All I want is a "DUE" date and have been assuming that "Target" date is the
 > same thing. Am I assuming correctly? If so, then that's what I'd want too.

>----------------------
Jeff wrote:
>         Target == Due in my mind, but you can relly use them as you like
>:) The desktop app will show from start to finish, with a marker at target
>so you know when you were/are supposed to finish..

Well, color me a Happy Camper then. :-)

o.

From: Laurie and Randy Cox  <rlcox@k...>
Date: Sun Jul 15, 2001 8:56pm
Subject: Linking other apps w/Shadow

This may be a really dumb question but I have been reading all these posts
and trying to find things that may make my system easier and I am not sure I
am seeing that.

I am wondering about the purpose of linking things to your datebook and to
do.

What I have done is set up outlines in Shadow for the different things I
need to do.  I haven't read Getting Things Done but have picked up some
things from the discussions on GtD and Shadow.  So I have set up categories
or main headings or whatever they are called for @phone, @store, @work,
@church, @leaving (thanks to Joe for that one!), etc.  I also downloaded my
Flylady routines from a gal on SHEandPDA list.  Within all these are my
lists:  for example I have to call the eye doctor for an appointment so that
is under @phone.  I added to my Flylady daily routine an outline for dietary
needs -- my 1 to 8 glasses of water so I can check them off when I drink
them, eating breakfast (as required by a diet I am trying to follow), etc.
With all my lists I use checkboxes