From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 1:16am
Subject: Re: Importing XML files?

On Mon, 2 Jul 2001 talanzimmerman@h... wrote:

> Is there a way to import an XML file into Shadow?  I tried importing 
> it as a memo, but Shadow doesn't seem to recognize the XML tags.  Is 
> this possible or should I wait for the Desktop?  Thanks

	Yeah, waiting for the desktop is the way to go for this bad
boy. Ultimately, I might make a XML->pdb tool or the like..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 1:31am
Subject: Re: Tags and Cats

On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:

> use more closely,and I would think, it must seem like we are urging 
> developers to "push the envelope" more than ever.. That being said, I 
> consider Shadow to be the best software of its kind, and would like 
> to take this opportunity to say thank you for continued feedback and 
> support that we recieve in this group.

	Thanks :) Its good to hear I'm still on the right track .. today
catching up on 1500 emails (yes, about that many!) has been an ordeal, and
theres been a number of flames (come on, I think I do a pretty good job
here ;), so its good to get refreshing comments like this :)

> really have no idea about what the possibilities are..Could you please
> explain how you plan to structure this new capability and what added 
> functionality it will provide ?

	Nothing is written in stone yet, but the basic implementation (not
mentioning the potential evolution or extensions) is along these lines:

	Categories -- there is alreayd a list level cat assignment. The
goal is add item level categories. So an item will either have "no
category assignment", or "be assigned a category in todo". If you link an
item, it will take on the assigned category. If you change the category in
another app, Shadow will pick up this change. When an item is linked and
also has no assigned category, Shadow will walk "up" the hierarchy, and
the item will take on the category of the first parent that has one, or if
none, then the list level itself.

	Tags -- you will have a Tag Editor allowing you to edit up to 50
or 100 tags for a list. What you put in the tags is your own business
.. they'll just be a number with associated text to Shadow. (ie: You'll
have slots 1-x, with x being 50 or 100 or whatever.) You can assign a tag
or two to an item in the details window. There could be a column for tag
display, perhaps, to make changing and viewing easy. You'll be able to
filter on tag (select all items that contain this tag _____), or sort (by
first tag, then second tag).

	Tags may in the future map to categories or somesuch, but I'll
leave that until we explore tags and categories in more detail..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 5:14am
Subject: Re: New Desires

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Learned wrote:
> 
> > An option to always start either in a selected shadow, or 
> > at the TOC so I can pick the Shadow to enter. I am trying
> > to get used to using an 'inbox' approach, and this would
> > make it faster.
> 
> 	I've thought about this a bit.. Does the "recent files" make this
> unnecessary? (ie: A tap or two away) I could add it to my todo list :P

To be honest, it might...I just put .11 on my palm, and have yet to
play with that feature. I hate to have you wasting time on features
that we can accomodate easily with what's there, so let me play
with that a bit.

> 
> > Second, the ability to just import a specific todo category
> > rather than the entire todo list. Again, this is with the 
> > thought of better managing 'inbox' type items.
> 
> 	Already on my list, though I'm not sure when I'll get to it.. not
> for awhile I imagine.

If I buy you a (good) beer, can I influence the list order?
<grin>

Keep up the great work Jeff.

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 5:18am
Subject: Re: New Desires

On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Learned wrote:
 >> An option to always start either in a selected shadow, or at the TOC so 
I can pick the Shadow to enter. I am trying to get used to using an 'inbox' 
approach, and this would make it faster.<<

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
 >>>I've thought about this a bit.. Does the "recent files" make this 
unnecessary? (ie: A tap or two away) I could add it to my todo list :P<<<

 >To be honest, it might...I just put .11 on my palm, and have yet to play 
with that feature. I hate to have you wasting time on features that we can 
accomodate easily with what's there, so let me play with that a bit.<

The "Recent Files" popup is great--you'll be glad you tried it.

Gary wrote:
 >>If I buy you a (good) beer, can I influence the list order? <grin><<

Hey! I already tried that. Me first! <g>

oooieoo

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 7:11am
Subject: Re: Houston, I think we have a problem......

On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote: Then today, someone 
on another list mentioned that a new version of another  outliner (bonsai) 
is out. Not being able to help myself, I wanted to take a looksee.<<

Jeff wrote:
 >>Hey, what sort of linking does Bonsai have? Are they swiping Shadow's 
features yet? :P<<

Well Jeff it's like this. I'm not nearly as proficient at crashing the 
linking stuff in Bonsai as I am with ShadowPlan. It's a right-brained thing 
I do as a sideline, don'tcha know.

Actually, their version of linking is very simplified... and works great. 
But it's not as full featured as ShadowPlan's version is, nor as powerful. 
The short explanation for Bonsai's linking: You select the ToDo category 
then check a box to link it to the ToDo database. "Wahlah!"

I had adapted the use of Shadow's quick'n dirty ToDo link to dump things 
into the Unfiled category. After that I can go into ToDoPlus and use it's 
features to do a really fast run down of the Unfiled category items, 
changing categories on the fly. I must say, it really tickles me that I got 
so used to doing this, that after the initial kewl factor in Bonsai, it 
wasn't "all that" anymore.

oooieoo

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 7:39am
Subject: Re: Tags and Cats

On 2001-07-03 at 21:31, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> theres been a number of flames (come on, I think I do a pretty good job
> here ;), so its good to get refreshing comments like this :)

It's "interesting" to release software ... you never know what kind of response
you get 8-)

                    jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 8:17am
Subject: My wishlist

I've been keeping a wishlist for this program since I started using it in a 
big way. Some of this stuff has already been discussed, but I kept it in to 
signify my vote (one way or the other). It's time to post it before it gets 
longer.

Preface:

• References to other programs are not digs along the vein of, "that 
program does it, why doesn't yours???" Nope, they're simply references to 
things I've seen and think would serve as good models, because they work 
well. I understand how touchy this subject is, but it's always been my 
thought that there aren't many original ideas. Ideas simply evolve from 
other ideas already in place. I hope you guys take my references to 
features in other programs in this evolutionary vein.

• I realize that in some cases I'm asking to get rid of something, but then 
in the next breath I'm asking for something that could only happen because 
things work like they do. I want my cake and I want to eat it, too. <g>

• There is no way that I expect an itemized response from Jeff on this. I 
just wanted to get my 2 cents in at this point.

--------------------------------------
Here goes........

• Scrollbars:
Rethinking the full screen scrollbar: In all my testing of the various 
outliners the last few weeks, one of the things I found myself using a 
lot..... and loving it a ton, was the left-hand version of the scrollbar 
used in ThoughtManager. I never liked LeftHack when I first got my Palm (I 
may have to revisit this). Dunno why I feel so differently about the one in 
ThoughtManager. Is it closer to the edge than in other apps, leaving more 
screen space? I don't know, but I do know that it works flawlessly--no 
jerky redrawing or anything like that. It makes moving up and down an 
outline so much easier. (SideNote: I just installed WordSmith to my Palm 
and it's got the same kind of lefthand scrollbar- doesn't interfere and 
seems to be really close to the edge of the window, so it takes up little 
real estate. Awesome!)

• Zoom feature:
What would make it even snappier for me would be a button along the bottom 
of the screen --maybe one that would toggle between the Zoom/UnZoom. Gads, 
that would be cool.

• Hide/UnHide Toggle Button:
I'd *love* a toggle button *on the screen* to hide/unhide checked off 
items. I constantly use this feature in a couple of other programs and find 
it invaluable. Being able to Hide/Toggle checked-off items would go a long 
way toward using this idea to replace the template idea. You don't have to 
actually delete items--just hide them from your eyeballs. When you need to 
use the list again, just use the options on the EDIT menu to UNCHECK ALL. I 
love that feature.

• A "Show" Button:
A button with a popup list that will give you quick access to a list of 
items to Show/Hide. Examples that would be great to have are: Priority, 
Check Box/Bubble, Notes, Links, Due Date, Categories. Or maybe a default 
preference would activate with a tap to the button, with a Tap & Hold 
behavior to pop up the rest of the options list.

• Importing Memos and ToDos:
When importing Memos, instead of having to Graffiti in a title, is there 
any way to have the import utility grab the top line as a title--similar to 
what MemoPad already does?

      - Right now the first line gets trashed, so if you have several lists 
that don't refer to the parent (first line/title), how are you supposed to 
be able to tell which list it is? Having to Graffiti everything in is a 
pain. Even if I just had the option of being able to copy/paste the title 
would help a great deal

      - I like that you can select more than one Memo at a whack to import 
(so much faster!!), except that it keeps appending one Memo. I need the 
option to import everything as separate lists. This is another reason the 
first line/title needs to stay intact.  Best option (for me) would be to 
choose between grabbing separate Memos or appending one long one.

      - Should be able to select CATEGORIES & then individual files to 
choose from items within a category I've chosen. Otherwise I must scroll 
through all items in all categories. Way too much work

• Import/Export:
Until the desktop app is done, we've gotta have some kind of way to be able 
to export our outlines to Doc or HTML format, so that we can edit them from 
the desktop. And then we need to be able to get them back in again.

• Default Global Preferences:
  I don't remember who brought it up or how it was worded, but I think I 
understood someone saying that having default prefs set for a whole list, 
or even having the option of having global prefs for whole categories set 
would be way-cool. If they didn't say that, it's how I interpreted it and 
what I would be really interested in. Of course we'd still need the ability 
to change one thing or another for particular lists, but the next time I 
start a new list, it would be starting with my preferred

• File List View/Sorting:
Wish it had the ability to allow dragging/dropping of the outlines in the 
file list view, for sorting abilities. Barring that, I wish it would quit 
doing an autosort--let me select an outline anywhere in the list, tap the 
NEW button, then have the new outline name appear above/below that selected 
outline. Only trouble with that approach is that I'm sure to want something 
at the very top or the very bottom.

• List Preferences:
Barring Global Preferences abilities, I would like to be able to change 
list prefs (including the custom stuff) from the category level list menu 
in addition to changing them from within the actual list. This would save a 
couple of steps when wanting to change one aspects of all of my outlines--I 
could select the filename and make changes right there without opening, on 
the fly.

• Buttons:
There is a lot of room along the bottom button row to add more 
buttons/icons. One option would be to make the buttons smaller. In keeping 
with that thought, you could actually shorten the names of some of the 
buttons:

	- Details= DET or Det
	- Child = C
	- Zoom toggle = Z
	- N = Note
	- Delete = Del

• DONE Button (LIST View):
I know I've mentioned this a time or three.... but it just seems like in 
this case, it would make more sense to put it back over on the lefthand 
side where the OK buttons are. In fact, you could probably get away with 
naming it "OK," too. This would give the benefit of having a smaller button 
on that bottom row and would allow more room for my Zoom/UnZoom icon

• Suggest moving CHILD button to right & changing it to a small icon

• Same for DETAILS button or else abbreviate it

Other Stuff:

• Lifetime Upgrades: Everyone loves the idea of free lifetime upgrades for 
a program. But. Jeff, you've done proven yourself--you've let us know that 
you'll be here for the long haul and you're going to end up producing an 
awesome application. Have you given any consideration to revising this 
thinking of "free for a lifetime" upgrade thing (I know... probably 
everytime you get a list like mine, eh?)? Why not put this to a vote just 
like you do with program 'feechures'? I'd vote for upgrade fees for major 
upgrades. There is going to come a time when you'll be glad you tweaked 
this idea a bit. :-)

(sidenote: I wrote the paragraph above before I saw Jeff's post regarding 
the idea of charging for the desktop version. THAT would be one of the 
major upgrades I was referring to. There will be more of these majors in 
the future and I know for a fact that a huge percentage of us would rather 
pay you something for all this work. Have you considered getting a gorilla 
or two for the sympathy factor? <g>)

oooieoo

From: Manfred Ell  <manfredell@y...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 9:03am
Subject: Re: Sort *only* the current branch?

On 03-07-2001 at 13:22:14 GMT -0400 (EDT) (which was 18:22 where I live)
Jeff Mitchell wrote regarding the subject of " Sort *only* the current branch?"
Using: N/A

Hello Jeff,

>> Anyone else wish Shadow could sort on a specific branch as an 
>> alternative to sorting the entire outline? In my main tasks outline, 
>> there are branches where a certain hierarchy or order must be 
>> preserved (hence I don't wish to sort there) but there are also 
>> branches where I would prefer to sort the entries alphabetically (by 
>> Title). I really wish I could sort *only those* branches. It was easy 
>> to do this in BF by sorting only on the "current branch".
>> Anyone else want to see this capability added to Shadow? Or am I 
>> missing something?

>         I can add a "Sort selection" menu option, if you'd like..

While you're at it, can you add the option to sort the untimed events
at the bottom of the list.

Regards

-- 
Manfred
___________________________________________________________________________
[ TheBat 1.53d (FE1905D5), Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 ]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 0:07pm
Subject: Re: Odd problem...

Hmm, you're using a 3rd party launcher and McPhling. Looks like
either or both *can* cause the problem (not enough time to fully
investigate, but this looks like the case). Many people have no problems
when using all 3 but some do. So far I don't think theres been a problem
(maybe one?) that didn't have a 3rd party launcher doing something odd
and/or McPhling. Very curious :/

	The next release will definitely have a warning when you activate
this feature.. "warning, if you use 3rd party launchers or some hacks, you
may have problems. If so, deactivate this feature!" and then when you
deactivate it it will ask you "reset to built in launcher?" ...

		jeff

On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, ~SS~ wrote:

> 
> > What launcher and OS version and Hacks are you using? I need to
> > figure out why this problem is happening on some small number of devices
> > :(
> > jeff
> 
> Here is what I'm running --
> Launcher:  HandScape Pro 1.5.0
> Palm OS : v3.5.2
> Hacks:  (TealMaster  1.10)
>     FindHack 3.0
>     McPhling 2.03
>     MiddleCapsHack 2.6
>     QLaunchHack 0.93s
> 
> Someone else had mentioned perhaps an interaction with Bonsai, which I also
> have.  It is version 1.0.7
> 
> To solve the problem I went into HandScape and rechecked "Launcher button
> will open HandScape".  All is back to normal for now!!
> annie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 0:31pm
Subject: Re: Re: Sort *only* the current branch?

On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Manfred Ell wrote:

> >> to do this in BF by sorting only on the "current branch".
> >> Anyone else want to see this capability added to Shadow? Or am I 
> >> missing something?
> 
> >         I can add a "Sort selection" menu option, if you'd like..
> 
> While you're at it, can you add the option to sort the untimed events
> at the bottom of the list.

	That opens a larger can of worms..

	Howabout you kick off a thread in the mailing list about Sorting,
to see if peopel want it changed at all in other ways. When I'll make a
batch of sorting changes. I need a vote for your proposed change beforeI
do  it .. can't just go changing something that people may depend on,
withotu a good solid vote :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 0:37pm
Subject: Re: New Desires

On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Learned wrote:

> To be honest, it might...I just put .11 on my palm, and have yet to
> play with that feature. I hate to have you wasting time on features
> that we can accomodate easily with what's there, so let me play
> with that a bit.

	Actually, a good point from Nancy .. Shadow can be told to launch
itself and load a specific list (launch-and-load!). Some launchers provide
this .. so that you can tap on a data file, and have the appropriate app
launch and show that datafile, regardless of where you left off. Maybe you
can do this, or something along these lines?

> If I buy you a (good) beer, can I influence the list order?
> <grin>

	heh. I'm sort of partial to Kilkenny right now :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Manfred Ell  <manfredell@y...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 1:44pm
Subject: Re: Sort *only* the current branch?

On 04-07-2001 at 08:31:18 GMT -0400 (EDT) (which was 13:31 where I live)
Jeff Mitchell wrote regarding the subject of "Sort *only* the current branch?"
Using: N/A

Hello Jeff,

>> While you're at it, can you add the option to sort the untimed events
>> at the bottom of the list.

>         That opens a larger can of worms..

>         Howabout you kick off a thread in the mailing list about Sorting,
> to see if peopel want it changed at all in other ways. When I'll make a
> batch of sorting changes. I need a vote for your proposed change beforeI
> do  it .. can't just go changing something that people may depend on,
> withotu a good solid vote :P

I already did this a few days ago.

Regards

-- 
Manfred
___________________________________________________________________________
[ TheBat 1.53d (FE1905D5), Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 ]

From: Carolyn Dean  <caro488@y...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 3:53pm
Subject: Re: Users Manual??

After downloading and installing shadow, I seem to
have deleted the fiel from my PC. Is there an
instruction book? I seem to have a problem getting
started...
SHould I download again??
Thanks C

--- Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Learned wrote:
> 
> > An option to always start either in a selected
> shadow, or 
> > at the TOC so I can pick the Shadow to enter. I am
> trying
> > to get used to using an 'inbox' approach, and this
> would
> > make it faster.
> 
> 	I've thought about this a bit.. Does the "recent
> files" make this
> unnecessary? (ie: A tap or two away) I could add it
> to my todo list :P
> 
> > Second, the ability to just import a specific todo
> category
> > rather than the entire todo list. Again, this is
> with the 
> > thought of better managing 'inbox' type items.
> 
> 	Already on my list, though I'm not sure when I'll
> get to it.. not
> for awhile I imagine.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around
> in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control
> Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he
> calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
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From: Carolyn Dean  <caro488@y...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 4:22pm
Subject: Re: cut and paste

Sorry for what seems to me like a stupid question:
How do you cut and paste on a palm??????

TIA
C
'8^])

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
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From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 4:24pm
Subject: Re: Users Manual??

On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Carolyn Dean wrote:

> After downloading and installing shadow, I seem to
> have deleted the fiel from my PC. Is there an
> instruction book? I seem to have a problem getting
> started...
> SHould I download again??

	If you wiped the file, then download again if you want it :) You
can also read a reasonably recent (maybe 100% recent) version on the
website if you don't wish to download it.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 6:17pm
Subject: Re: New Desires

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> 
> 	heh. I'm sort of partial to Kilkenny right now :P
> 

Ahhh, good taste in beer too...I think we can deal.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 6:32pm
Subject: Re: cut and paste

On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Carolyn Dean wrote:

> Sorry for what seems to me like a stupid question:
> How do you cut and paste on a palm??????

	On a palm, or in Shadow?

	I'm assuming you mean in Shadow .. just pick an item in list view,
and then under the Edit menu are various clipboard operations like Copy or
Cut. Additionally, there is a little [C] icon in the top right that lets
you do many of the same operations a little quicker. This is the Shadow
item clipboard.

	If you plan on just copy/cutting/pasting text, from say an item
title or note, then when in the detail window you select/hilight the text
to work on, and then use the Edit pulldown menu again, or some shortcuts,
to copy/cut/paste text itself. This is the palm wide text clipboard.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jul 4, 2001 6:59pm
Subject: Freebies!

The english translation is at the bottom..
  
        http://www.palmtop-pro.com/magazine/fehlersuche_024.htm
  
        An excerpt from the page is as follows. Feel free to forward to   
everyone you know :)

Its Summer -- Warm that BBQ!

Palmtop-Pro and Codejedi are thinking that you need to spend more time    
with the barbeque than with your PDA. Time saving software is one way to  
do this - but being a lazy steamy summer, who wants to reach into their   
wallet for a credit card, when you can get free stuff? Just head on over  
to the Palmtop-Pro website, find the mistake on the cover page of actual   
issue 24 and let us know what it is! The first 5 to correctly identify the
mistake will receive themselves a copy of Shadow Plan!
                
                jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: davlir@y...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 2:40am
Subject: Re: Sort *only* the current branch?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2001 davlir@y... wrote:
> 

> 
> 	I can add a "Sort selection" menu option, if you'd like..
> 
> 		jeff
> 

Hi Jeff,

Hope this reply actually goes out. I tried replying to Ricardo's post 
*twice*, but Yahoo seems to have eaten those messages (Sorry, 
Ricardo). Anyway, a "Sort selection" menu option would be FANTASTIC! 
Please do add it, as soon as you've got the time. BTW, *loving* 
Shadow...

Regards...

-David.

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 3:51am
Subject: Question Re: Categories

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	It still remains.. how many people use the todo list after getting
> Shadow? How tightly should Shadow be bound? (ie: Supporting categories is
> strictly out of scope for Shadow .. in theory, following other threads
> like date-time support, I should say that you can simply goto/return the
> todo app, and assign your category there). The question of
> which-app-is-best is tough :/

Jeff,

The answer, at least from the standpoint of GtD users is - MOST.  The issue is, as I tried to describe in my original post, Shadow currently provides NICE, AWESOME views of branches.  The problem is that it doesn't work very well for QUICK maintenance of leaves.  (Please refer to my original post if the branches/leaves meaning is not truly clear to you).

To be clear, in ToDo, if I have my "leaves" well defined, I can do two taps to see my list of leaves in ANY category.  In Shadow, I am constantly going in and out of files, and in each file, expanding (or zooming in on) particular branches.  This is just flat too time consuming for what I need to do.  I -*NEED*- the ability to quickly review and maintain my leaves.  There are times when I need to do this in the context of the trees they live in (Shadow), but for me, that is a once a week or at most once per day activity.

I -*WOULD*- use Shadow for my leaf management/review process (and would LOVE to), but I would need a Shadow wide (read: ALL .PDB file wide) leaf view in Shadow, with quick category switching capability.  That is a fairly large investement of time on your part, and I am truly not certain of whether that is a direction you would want to go (not to even SPEAK of how long it would take to implement given what all you have on the table).

The key right now to the GtD crowd is QUICK maintenance of their leaves.  Speed is TRULY key.  Reality is, you provide all of the functionality we need through either functions directly in Shadow, or in what Shadow links to.  The reason this doesn't work for the GtD crowd is that we need to be able to go in, review, maintain, add these "next action" items in a VERY short period of time.  The proposal I made isn't perfect, but I made it with the following VERY VERY clearly in my mind: "What is the fastest possible way, they EASIEST possible way I could request that Jeff add support for next action items in Shadow without making changes to Shadow that would not be needed later on in time."  - I did NOT want to make a request that would be superceded by something you already had planned.  I also wanted (if even remotely possible) to make a proposal of a change that could be implemented in a (yes, yes, I know, I didn't write Shadow, I just mean this from what little knowledge I do have of it) short period of time.

Let me know what ya think.

-Joe Chott

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 3:59am
Subject: Re: Question Re: Categories

For what it's worth, this isn't just a GtD issue. If you look around the 
various outliner forums it seems like we're all asking for variations of 
the same thing.

o.


At 08:51 PM 07/04/2001, you wrote:
>--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> >       It still remains.. how many people use the todo list after getting
> > Shadow? How tightly should Shadow be bound? (ie: Supporting categories is
> > strictly out of scope for Shadow .. in theory, following other threads
> > like date-time support, I should say that you can simply goto/return the
> > todo app, and assign your category there). The question of
> > which-app-is-best is tough :/
>
>Jeff,
>
>The answer, at least from the standpoint of GtD users is - MOST.  The 
>issue is, as I tried to describe in my original post, Shadow currently 
>provides NICE, AWESOME views of branches.  The problem is that it doesn't 
>work very well for QUICK maintenance of leaves.  (Please refer to my 
>original post if the branches/leaves meaning is not truly clear to you).

<snip'd the rest for brevity's sake>

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 7:46am
Subject: Re: Question Re: Categories

On 2001-07-05 at 03:51, verxion@p... wrote:

> The answer, at least from the standpoint of GtD users is - MOST.  The
> issue is, as I tried to describe in my original post, Shadow currently
> provides NICE, AWESOME views of branches.  The problem is that it
> doesn't work very well for QUICK maintenance of leaves.  (Please refer
> to my original post if the branches/leaves meaning is not truly clear
> to you).

I'll agree on this one ... I'm using the Todo application for one reason: give a
quick overview of each category.

I don't know what would be the best way of implementing this ... but what I
would do would be to implement a few things that you have previously mentioned: 

+   A flat view where only the leaves are display

+   The ability to define custom filters

+   The ability to save a combination of filters and views

In this way I could define a filter that filters out the tasks in a certain
category, and within a certain timeframe, define a custom view that displayed
them in the way I want and then save this view.

The different views could then be selected from a custom view pull-down or in
the 'v' menu.

                    jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/

From: David Keltie  <dave@z...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 10:51am
Subject: RE: Question Re: Categories

Do I miss the point? I use ToDo+ to manage what the GtD folk call 'next
action' items. Changing them there, changes them in Shadow. And only a
click away.

Maybe I'm strange, but I hate Datebook 4 precisely because you can spend
ages configuring the thing without improving real functionality. Please
don't bloat Shadow with endless options. Keep it simple on the Palm side
- what can be done with links is AWESOME. (But then I use it as a
planner - not as a substitute for what's already on my palm).

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: verxion@p... [mailto:verxion@p...] 
Sent: 05 July 2001 04:51
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Question Re: Categories


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	It still remains.. how many people use the todo list after
getting 
> Shadow? How tightly should Shadow be bound? (ie: Supporting categories

> is strictly out of scope for Shadow .. in theory, following other 
> threads like date-time support, I should say that you can simply 
> goto/return the todo app, and assign your category there). The 
> question of which-app-is-best is tough :/

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 0:33pm
Subject: Re: Question Re: Categories

On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> The answer, at least from the standpoint of GtD users is - MOST.  The
> issue is, as I tried to describe in my original post, Shadow currently
> provides NICE, AWESOME views of branches.  The problem is that it
> doesn't work very well for QUICK maintenance of leaves.  (Please refer
> to my original post if the branches/leaves meaning is not truly clear
> to you).

	Your'e a compelling bastard aren't ya ;)

> "next action" items in a VERY short period of time.  The proposal I
> made isn't perfect, but I made it with the following VERY VERY clearly
> in my mind: "What is the fastest possible way, they EASIEST possible
> way I could request that Jeff add support for next action items in
> Shadow without making changes to Shadow that would not be needed later

	Which proposal was this, anyway? I spent 3 days catching up on
email (go away for 4 days, behind already for 1 day.. so maybe 5-6 days of
email buildup. Then spend 3 days wokring hard, many hours each, to catch
up? Thats not right :P) so I've lost thread context. Its all in my todo
list, but I'm off to a meeting in a minute and can't think :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 1:17pm
Subject: Question Re: Categories

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	Your'e a compelling bastard aren't ya ;)

I am really trying to explain what I consider to be truly "compelling" reasons for these changes.

> 	Which proposal was this, anyway? I spent 3 days catching up on
> email (go away for 4 days, behind already for 1 day.. so maybe 5-6 days of
> email buildup. Then spend 3 days wokring hard, many hours each, to catch
> up? Thats not right :P) so I've lost thread context. Its all in my todo
> list, but I'm off to a meeting in a minute and can't think :P

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shadow-discuss/message/1382

Thanks for reading and considering what I wrote.

-Joe Chott

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 1:18pm
Subject: Question Re: Categories

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "David Keltie" <dave@z...> wrote:
> Do I miss the point? I use ToDo+ to manage what the GtD folk call 'next
> action' items. Changing them there, changes them in Shadow. And only a
> click away.

You didn't miss the point.  You hit it head on.  Jeff Mitchell was asking (among other things) if people really used other to-do applications once they got Shadow.  You (like, I believe, most) use another program to continue to manage "leaves".

-Joe Chott

From: cdraus@y...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 2:56pm
Subject: Question Re: Categories

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	It still remains.. how many people use the todo list after 
getting
> Shadow? How tightly should Shadow be bound? (ie: Supporting 
categories is
> strictly out of scope for Shadow .. in theory, following other 
threads
> like date-time support, I should say that you can simply 
goto/return the
> todo app, and assign your category there). The question of
> which-app-is-best is tough :/

As another GTD method user, I use Shadow for my projects and the Todo 
list (using ToDo+) for my Next Actions. My ToDo list categories are 
setup as my Next Action contexts (@Errands, @Computer, etc.). Since 
the context of each Next Action item for a project (i.e. the category 
of each ToDo linked to a Shadow outline item) will more often than 
not vary, it would be nice to be able to set the category while 
setting up the ToDo link within Shadow. That would save me a couple 
of steps for each Next Action I've decided on, which would be quite a 
significant savings.

User interface wise, it seems like this feature would fit right into 
the Link Add dialog box that's already present in v1.5.6 for Address 
and Memo links.

- Carl Draus

From: Moira Grunwell  <moira@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 3:01pm
Subject: RE: Question Re: Categories

I definitely agree.  An addition drop down choice in the Link to To-Do
option would be a huge time saver.


Moira

-----Original Message-----
From: cdraus@y... [mailto:cdraus@y...]
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:57 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Question Re: Categories


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

> 	It still remains.. how many people use the todo list after 
getting
> Shadow? How tightly should Shadow be bound? (ie: Supporting 
categories is
> strictly out of scope for Shadow .. in theory, following other 
threads
> like date-time support, I should say that you can simply 
goto/return the
> todo app, and assign your category there). The question of
> which-app-is-best is tough :/

As another GTD method user, I use Shadow for my projects and the Todo 
list (using ToDo+) for my Next Actions. My ToDo list categories are 
setup as my Next Action contexts (@Errands, @Computer, etc.). Since 
the context of each Next Action item for a project (i.e. the category 
of each ToDo linked to a Shadow outline item) will more often than 
not vary, it would be nice to be able to set the category while 
setting up the ToDo link within Shadow. That would save me a couple 
of steps for each Next Action I've decided on, which would be quite a 
significant savings.

User interface wise, it seems like this feature would fit right into 
the Link Add dialog box that's already present in v1.5.6 for Address 
and Memo links.

- Carl Draus


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From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 3:18pm
Subject: Todo categories

Re .. previous discussions..

	Shadow itself doesnt' care about todo categories; storing them in
Shadow itself was a way to make your life easier during link
creation.. but previous thoughts go like this:

	1) Optionally set a todo cat in details
	2) Go establish a link, which would pick up the set cat, or if
unset, climb up the tree picking the nearest parents category

	Its several steps.

	However.. Shadow doesn't care about cats. Also, how often will you
create a link, remove it, create it again, etc.

	Perhaps it shoudl be like this:

	1) Shadow has a default todo cat for list (already present)
	2) Shadow has no care of todo cat in details (already current)
	3) Pref: "Ask category at link establishment time"
	4) When you add a link to todo, if the pref set, then a popup list
of current todo cats woudl be shown to let you select oen to send it to
right away. (This woudl occur in link manager and in todo-link-column when
activated or in flat-view). I'd have to check where else user can create
todo links to see if it makes sense..

	Is this a better idea? invasive, but I'm wondering what the
expected usage patterns are.. if most people just want to "link to
todo" and "set category" once for a given item, and both together, perhaps
this makes sense. Previous ideas were based on my usages and some
flexibility thoughts..

	But perhaps I'm getting too flexible again :P

	USe the list default, or pop up, depending on that pref. If pref
active, pop up the lsit of todo cats, and default to lsit default, but let
you pick. Poof.

	Good? Does that make everyone happy for todo cats?

	I'm not expecting a todo cat column option, since you shoudl
manage cats in your todo programs, but Shadow can make that first creation
easier..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Moira Grunwell  <moira@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 3:26pm
Subject: RE: Todo categories

That would work for me.


Moira

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 11:18 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Todo categories



	Re .. previous discussions..

	Shadow itself doesnt' care about todo categories; storing them in
Shadow itself was a way to make your life easier during link
creation.. but previous thoughts go like this:

	1) Optionally set a todo cat in details
	2) Go establish a link, which would pick up the set cat, or if
unset, climb up the tree picking the nearest parents category

	Its several steps.

	However.. Shadow doesn't care about cats. Also, how often will you
create a link, remove it, create it again, etc.

	Perhaps it shoudl be like this:

	1) Shadow has a default todo cat for list (already present)
	2) Shadow has no care of todo cat in details (already current)
	3) Pref: "Ask category at link establishment time"
	4) When you add a link to todo, if the pref set, then a popup list
of current todo cats woudl be shown to let you select oen to send it to
right away. (This woudl occur in link manager and in todo-link-column when
activated or in flat-view). I'd have to check where else user can create
todo links to see if it makes sense..

	Is this a better idea? invasive, but I'm wondering what the
expected usage patterns are.. if most people just want to "link to
todo" and "set category" once for a given item, and both together, perhaps
this makes sense. Previous ideas were based on my usages and some
flexibility thoughts..

	But perhaps I'm getting too flexible again :P

	USe the list default, or pop up, depending on that pref. If pref
active, pop up the lsit of todo cats, and default to lsit default, but let
you pick. Poof.

	Good? Does that make everyone happy for todo cats?

	I'm not expecting a todo cat column option, since you shoudl
manage cats in your todo programs, but Shadow can make that first creation
easier..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 3:50pm
Subject: Re: Todo categories

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	1) Optionally set a todo cat in details
> 	2) Go establish a link, which would pick up the set cat, or if
> unset, climb up the tree picking the nearest parents category

This seems to me to be quite workable.  This would fulfill what I think people would "expect" as their methodology given other palm apps.

> 	Perhaps it shoudl be like this:
> 
> 	1) Shadow has a default todo cat for list (already present)
> 	2) Shadow has no care of todo cat in details (already current)
> 	3) Pref: "Ask category at link establishment time"
> 	4) When you add a link to todo, if the pref set, then a popup list
> of current todo cats woudl be shown to let you select oen to send it to
> right away. (This woudl occur in link manager and in todo-link-column when
> activated or in flat-view). I'd have to check where else user can create
> todo links to see if it makes sense..

This seems quickest.  This is what I would vote for if we only got one or the other.  My only question would be - once established, how would we CHANGE the category?  Either in our to-do app or through an unlink/re-link, right?  I am just thinking it might be useful to have SOME way (perhaps detail view) to see/change what the cat is from Shadow Plan itself.  But I will CERTAINLY live with the pop-up if that is all we can get for now.  :)

-Joe Chott

P.S. THANK YOU for listening on this.  I think you can see there is a lot of interest in it.

From: rdavis@d...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Todo categories

I like the idea of being able to select a ToDo category at the time 
of making a link from the categories managed through the ToDo 
application.

I'm working on David Allen's GTD methodology.  As my in-tray gets 
filled from various directions I use Shadow for my "Projects" and the 
built in ToDo app (either native or via Datebk4 split screen) to 
manage my next Actions.  That way all my actions get synched to my 
Outlook tasks to get the while thing done.

Today my default ToDo category is "Unfiled".  Having created the link 
in Shadow, I follow it to the ToDo app, set the category I want 
(calls, errands, etc.) then use switchHack to get back to where I was 
in Shadow.

Richard.

> 	Perhaps it shoudl be like this:
> 
> 	1) Shadow has a default todo cat for list (already present)
> 	2) Shadow has no care of todo cat in details (already current)
> 	3) Pref: "Ask category at link establishment time"
> 	4) When you add a link to todo, if the pref set, then a popup 
list
> of current todo cats woudl be shown to let you select oen to send 
it to
> right away. (This woudl occur in link manager and in todo-link-
column when
> activated or in flat-view). I'd have to check where else user can 
create
> todo links to see if it makes sense..
> 
> 	Is this a better idea? invasive, but I'm wondering what the
> expected usage patterns are.. if most people just want to "link to
> todo" and "set category" once for a given item, and both together, 
perhaps
> this makes sense. Previous ideas were based on my usages and some
> flexibility thoughts..
> 
> 	But perhaps I'm getting too flexible again :P
> 
> 	USe the list default, or pop up, depending on that pref. If 
pref
> active, pop up the lsit of todo cats, and default to lsit default, 
but let
> you pick. Poof.
> 
> 	Good? Does that make everyone happy for todo cats?
> 
> 	I'm not expecting a todo cat column option, since you shoudl
> manage cats in your todo programs, but Shadow can make that first 
creation
> easier..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jan Erik Moström  <lists@m...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 5:31pm
Subject: Re: Todo categories

On 2001-07-05 at 11:18, Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:

>   1) Shadow has a default todo cat for list (already present)
>   2) Shadow has no care of todo cat in details (already current)
>   3) Pref: "Ask category at link establishment time"
>   4) When you add a link to todo, if the pref set, then a popup list
> of current todo cats woudl be shown to let you select oen to send it to
> right away. (This woudl occur in link manager and in todo-link-column when
> activated or in flat-view). I'd have to check where else user can create
> todo links to see if it makes sense..

This would work for me

            jem
--
Jan Erik Moström                             mailto:jem@m...
Free Elektron                      http://www.mostrom.pp.se/folk/jem/

From: Carl Draus  <cdraus@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 7:27pm
Subject: Re: Todo categories

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeff Mitchell 
>      USe the list default, or pop up, depending on that pref. If pref
> active, pop up the lsit of todo cats, and default to lsit default, but let
> you pick. Poof.

This one would satisfy my needs. I just want to be able to set the category during link creation. If the category needs to be changed, it's easy enough to either do it in the ToDo app, or from within Shadow, delete the link and recreate it.

- Carl Draus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 8:36pm
Subject: My Wishes

Jeff, I see on various egroups that a lot of people are using datebk4 in
conjunction with Shadow.  One of the main reasons I registered Shadow was
that it linked to my todo list and datebook and tapping the link would jump
directly to the entry in datebk4.  I am wishing, tho, for a couple of more
integrated features between the apps...

1.  Icons - I wish I could see the attached icon for a todo in the shadow
outline as well.  Since the icon is part of the code in the note field,
would this be a reasonable request?

2.  Links...  I have a lot of links, but this is my problem.  If I create an
item in shadow with an address book link and then link it to the datebk, the
link is no longer viewable once I exit shadow and open the datebook.  And if
I make the link in datebk4, and then import the item into shadow, I have to
recreate the link through shadow.  It means I have to make the link to the
same address in both apps for a single entry.  Is there any possibility that
you could use the same coding as datebk4 that would read the info in the
note field and create the link so that creating it in either shadow or
datebk4 makes it viewable in both apps?

These are just ideas.  I know not everyone uses datebk4 and all that - it's
just a thought.  Whether it happens or not will in no way influence whether
I use shadow or not.  I still think shadow is the best by far - thanks for
all your hard work :)
Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 9:25pm
Subject: Re: My Wishes

Hi Gretchen!  :)

I don't presume to speak for Jeff on this, but I can tell you what I have s=
een from his posts in the past (and he seems to be quite busy right now so I=
 thought I would send you something in the interim).

From what I know, Jeff is an Action Names user.  He doesn't use Datebk4.  T=
hat is -*NOT*- to say that Jeff doesn't try to support his users regardless =
of what they prefer, but the point is, he isn't doing Action Names specific =
features EVEN THOUGH it is his tool of choice for such things.

In the past, Jeff has said that he is hesitant to implement features that a=
re other app specific (things like icons in Datebk4, since the same solution=
 wouldn't work for Action Names).  Additionally, as regards the linking - Ac=
tion Names provides links as well, but users of Action Names have to double =
link too.  The point is, there isn't currently a standard linking methodolog=
y for the Palm on a system wide basis.  As a result, everyone does their lin=
king differently.  This makes it pretty hard for Jeff to support every app o=
ut there.

I myself use Datebk4, and I would LOVE to be able to have the links work in=
 both directions.  Fact of the matter is, they don't, and I haven't seen thi=
s be a high priority for Jeff given the direction he has stated in the past.=


As a workaround, I myself (using the GtD methodology) use Datebk4 to manage=
 my TIME CRITICAL events.  It is where I go for the "hard fast appointments"=
 in my life.  If a given appointment needs to be linked, I link it to a cont=
act, but I do that in Datebk4.  I don't have ANY linkage in Shadow to my app=
ointments.  To review my upcoming hard/fast appointments, I look in Datebk4.=


YES, this could be made a ton simpler if Jeff put the functionality into Sh=
adow Plan.  But in a very real sense, the net result of the requests along t=
hese lines end up being a request for duplication of MOST of the memopad, da=
tebook and todo apps into Shadow.  Jeff has taken the angle of linking to th=
em and letting you modify the content of what you linked to in the other app=
.  In the case of the link of an appointment itself to contacts, that falls =
into the lap of Datebk4 itself.

-Joe Chott

P.S. Another way to look at this is - why couldn't Datebk4 duplicate ITS li=
nks in Shadow Plan?  The answer is the same - CESD can't very well support e=
very other app that deals with appointments on the Palm.  :)

P.P.S. Jeff obviously could change his mind and state that he will do some =
of what you request here.  I myself requested what you wrote about rougly 2 =
months ago, and that is when Jeff informed me of his directional intent with=
 Shadow Plan.

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., <drumgirl313@y...> wrote:
> Jeff, I see on various egroups that a lot of people are using datebk4 in
> conjunction with Shadow.  One of the main reasons I registered Shadow was=

> that it linked to my todo list and datebook and tapping the link would ju=
mp
> directly to the entry in datebk4.  I am wishing, tho, for a couple of mor=
e
> integrated features between the apps...
> 
> 1.  Icons - I wish I could see the attached icon for a todo in the shadow=

> outline as well.  Since the icon is part of the code in the note field,
> would this be a reasonable request?
> 
> 2.  Links...  I have a lot of links, but this is my problem.  If I create=
 an
> item in shadow with an address book link and then link it to the datebk, =
the
> link is no longer viewable once I exit shadow and open the datebook.  And=
 if
> I make the link in datebk4, and then import the item into shadow, I have =
to
> recreate the link through shadow.  It means I have to make the link to th=
e
> same address in both apps for a single entry.  Is there any possibility t=
hat
> you could use the same coding as datebk4 that would read the info in the
> note field and create the link so that creating it in either shadow or
> datebk4 makes it viewable in both apps?
> 
> These are just ideas.  I know not everyone uses datebk4 and all that - it=
's
> just a thought.  Whether it happens or not will in no way influence wheth=
er
> I use shadow or not.  I still think shadow is the best by far - thanks fo=
r
> all your hard work :)
> Gretchen
> 
> http://pugnut.tripod.com
> ********************************************
> Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
> ********************************************
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 9:32pm
Subject: Re: My Wishes

On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 drumgirl313@y... wrote:

> Jeff, I see on various egroups that a lot of people are using datebk4 in
> conjunction with Shadow.  One of the main reasons I registered Shadow was
> that it linked to my todo list and datebook and tapping the link would jump
> directly to the entry in datebk4.  I am wishing, tho, for a couple of more
> integrated features between the apps...
> 
> 1.  Icons - I wish I could see the attached icon for a todo in the shadow
> outline as well.  Since the icon is part of the code in the note field,
> would this be a reasonable request?

	Reasonable - yes, of course. Will it happen soon? Hard to say
.. ie: Its a fair amount of work, and it only benefits DB4 users and not
users of the built in DB, or Action Names (which has its own system), or
other apps.. I'm reluctant to benefit only one app at this time...

> 2.  Links...  I have a lot of links, but this is my problem.  If I create an
> item in shadow with an address book link and then link it to the datebk, the
> link is no longer viewable once I exit shadow and open the datebook.  And if
> I make the link in datebk4, and then import the item into shadow, I have to
> recreate the link through shadow.  It means I have to make the link to the
> same address in both apps for a single entry.  Is there any possibility that
> you could use the same coding as datebk4 that would read the info in the
> note field and create the link so that creating it in either shadow or
> datebk4 makes it viewable in both apps?

	Can you find out details about it? This sounds pretty easy to
implement...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 9:37pm
Subject: Re: Re: My Wishes

On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> I don't presume to speak for Jeff on this, but I can tell you what I have s=

	heh. Feel free to speak up -- I try and keep on top of things, but
if the mailing list folks help each other, its a lot less work for me ;)

> >From what I know, Jeff is an Action Names user.  He doesn't use Datebk4.  T=

	I use various things. I use AN solely for its handy integrated
week view. I only use it for this because I got it free (and they got
Shadow free).... so I use it just like any other datebook app for that
view, except AN's is prettier. I would've just used the built in datebook,
likely, as DB4 is large and clunky for my simple datebooking needs
(everything I do is in Shadow ;)

> hat is -*NOT*- to say that Jeff doesn't try to support his users regardless =
> of what they prefer, but the point is, he isn't doing Action Names specific =
> features EVEN THOUGH it is his tool of choice for such things.

	Well said and absolutely true.

> tion Names provides links as well, but users of Action Names have to double =
> link too.  The point is, there isn't currently a standard linking methodolog=
> y for the Palm on a system wide basis.  As a result, everyone does their lin=
> king differently.  This makes it pretty hard for Jeff to support every app o=
> ut there.

	Definitely true.

> I myself use Datebk4, and I would LOVE to be able to have the links work in=
>  both directions.  Fact of the matter is, they don't, and I haven't seen thi=
> s be a high priority for Jeff given the direction he has stated in the past.=

	I'm wondering though .. if its an extremely simple format
.. ie: some gobbledegook and a big number, then I coudl perhaps export
it. Picking it up on the way in.... maybe.

>  my TIME CRITICAL events.  It is where I go for the "hard fast appointments"=
>  in my life.  If a given appointment needs to be linked, I link it to a cont=
> act, but I do that in Datebk4.  I don't have ANY linkage in Shadow to my app=
> ointments.  To review my upcoming hard/fast appointments, I look in Datebk4.=

	This is a pretty solid way to do it.

> YES, this could be made a ton simpler if Jeff put the functionality into Sh=
> adow Plan.  But in a very real sense, the net result of the requests along t=
> hese lines end up being a request for duplication of MOST of the memopad, da=
> tebook and todo apps into Shadow.  Jeff has taken the angle of linking to th=
> em and letting you modify the content of what you linked to in the other app=
> .  In the case of the link of an appointment itself to contacts, that falls =
> into the lap of Datebk4 itself.

	You know, if folks like you wish to help out in the lists, I'd get
a lot more done ;) Nice job, and thanks.

> P.P.S. Jeff obviously could change his mind and state that he will do some =
> of what you request here.  I myself requested what you wrote about rougly 2 =
> months ago, and that is when Jeff informed me of his directional intent with=
>  Shadow Plan.

	If only there were more standards.

	How would icons show in Shadow? Woudl they be useful? Do they help
at all?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: solmar@l...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 10:33pm
Subject: Desktop version

I'm new to ShadowPlan and this group, but already see how this could make
not just my own, but my teenaged kids' lives simpler, by providing a
simple, well thought out organizational tool for all that school "stuff".
However, since they don't have PDAs (Grinch that I am), I'm hoping for a
desktop version--BUT, we use Macs--any hope for such an app/version? Joyce

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 10:40pm
Subject: Re: Desktop version

On Thu, 5 Jul 2001 solmar@l... wrote:

> I'm new to ShadowPlan and this group, but already see how this could make
> not just my own, but my teenaged kids' lives simpler, by providing a
> simple, well thought out organizational tool for all that school "stuff".
> However, since they don't have PDAs (Grinch that I am), I'm hoping for a
> desktop version--BUT, we use Macs--any hope for such an app/version? Joyce

	The desktop application when it comes out will be for several
platforms, including Mac... however, I'm betting there are some pretty
good free desktop applications already. The shadow dekstop app will reall
ybe targeted for those familiar with Shadow, using shadow, or who want to
use Shadow later .. but we'll see.. ultimately it should stand on its
own.. but that'll take time to evolve to.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 11:43pm
Subject: Re: My Wishes

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	Reasonable - yes, of course. Will it happen soon? Hard to say
> .. ie: Its a fair amount of work, and it only benefits DB4 users and not
> users of the built in DB, or Action Names (which has its own system), or
> other apps.. I'm reluctant to benefit only one app at this time...

Jeff,

I spent quite a bit of time searching the archives of the datebk4 mailing list and couldn't find specs for how he does the linking of the icons.  I will see what I can find out (sent an email directly to CESD) and I will let you know.  (I am looking for info on both icons and linking, and YES, it should be dirt simple once I have the info)

I don't have Action Names so can't really look into that one very easily. . .

-Joe Chott

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jul 5, 2001 11:48pm
Subject: Re: My Wishes

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	I'm wondering though .. if its an extremely simple format
> .. ie: some gobbledegook and a big number, then I coudl perhaps export
> it. Picking it up on the way in.... maybe.

So far all I know is that the first line of the attached note has TWO pound symbols - that is how you know it is a link/icon.  As far as the format of what remains on the line, I am still working on getting that info.
 
> > YES, this could be made a ton simpler if Jeff put the functionality into Sh=
> > adow Plan.  But in a very real sense, the net result of the requests along t=
> > hese lines end up being a request for duplication of MOST of the memopad, da=
> > tebook and todo apps into Shadow.  Jeff has taken the angle of linking to th=
> > em and letting you modify the content of what you linked to in the other app=
> > .  In the case of the link of an appointment itself to contacts, that falls =
> > into the lap of Datebk4 itself.
> 
> 	You know, if folks like you wish to help out in the lists, I'd get
> a lot more done ;) Nice job, and thanks.

Jeff, truth be told, I am being greedy.  I want some features, and I -*KNOW*- it takes your time.  If helping with some posts on the message board will give you more time, I am willing to do that when I myself have time.

> 	How would icons show in Shadow? Woudl they be useful? Do they help
> at all?

Well, in Datebk4, you can only have one icon per appointment, but in Shadow, conceivably you could have more than one appointment linked per list element. . .  It seems to me that you could have an optional "column" that displays icons, and it would only display (say) the first links' icon.  As far as being useful, being any help at all - I would say they are precisely as useful within Shadow as they are within Datebk4 - they help you tell what you are looking at at a glance.  Unfortunately, a lot of the benefits in Datebk4 would mean MORE Datebk4 specific coding in Shadow - things like filtering based upon icons.  I leave it to you to decide how much or little of what Datebk4 icons provide you wish to implement in Shadow.

-Joe Chott

From: opitz@s...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 1:51am
Subject: DateBk4 Links (was Re: My Wishes)

In this message, CESD gave some description of how the links are done:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pimlicodatebk/message/9723

but he said he hasn't documented well because he intends to change it 
soon. (He's mentioned having a major upgrade by late this year.)

Bob Opitz



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., verxion@p... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 	Reasonable - yes, of course. Will it happen soon? Hard to say
> > .. ie: Its a fair amount of work, and it only benefits DB4 users 
and not
> > users of the built in DB, or Action Names (which has its own 
system), or
> > other apps.. I'm reluctant to benefit only one app at this time...
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> I spent quite a bit of time searching the archives of the datebk4 
mailing list and couldn't find specs for how he does the linking of 
the icons.  I will see what I can find out (sent an email directly to 
CESD) and I will let you know.  (I am looking for info on both icons 
and linking, and YES, it should be dirt simple once I have the info)
> 
> I don't have Action Names so can't really look into that one very 
easily. . .
> 
> -Joe Chott

From: ext555@p...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 2:01am
Subject: DateBk4 Links (was Re: My Wishes)

I think he said the fall of this year 4.1 of Datebk4,  as for Action 
Names Icons, all I ever noticed in note field were straight numbers 
like  An#132 etc.   When I used that app I think I tried to put the 
number in a blank note field and it did create the Icon in AN--not 
sure how that works though

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., opitz@s... wrote:
> In this message, CESD gave some description of how the links are 
done:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pimlicodatebk/message/9723
> 
> but he said he hasn't documented well because he intends to change 
it 
> soon. (He's mentioned having a major upgrade by late this year.)
> 
> Bob Opitz
> 
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., verxion@p... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > 	Reasonable - yes, of course. Will it happen soon? Hard to say
> > > .. ie: Its a fair amount of work, and it only benefits DB4 
users 
> and not
> > > users of the built in DB, or Action Names (which has its own 
> system), or
> > > other apps.. I'm reluctant to benefit only one app at this 
time...
> > 
> > Jeff,
> > 
> > I spent quite a bit of time searching the archives of the datebk4 
> mailing list and couldn't find specs for how he does the linking of 
> the icons.  I will see what I can find out (sent an email directly 
to 
> CESD) and I will let you know.  (I am looking for info on both 
icons 
> and linking, and YES, it should be dirt simple once I have the info)
> > 
> > I don't have Action Names so can't really look into that one very 
> easily. . .
> > 
> > -Joe Chott

From: boudewyns@b...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 2:02am
Subject: New messages are red!

I feel silly I can't figure this out, but some of my new enties in 
Shadow come out red, some are black. I can't seem to enforce 
uniformly my preferred black. I'm using 1,5,6.

Suggestions appreciated. Please be kind.

Bob

From: verxion@p...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 3:17am
Subject: Re: New messages are red!

I am afraid I am at a loss as to why this would be happening.  If you tap on "New", you should see in the lower right of the resulting screen a box next to a button labeled "B".  The box is the color of what you are about to create.  I don't know of any way to make this default to ANYTHING but black.  All I can suggest is to look at that on the notes of yours that are red and the ones that are black and see if it reflects the colors you are seeing.

Another possibility (somewhat remote) is that you are having a problem with the background colors.  Try going to List->Preferences for the list you are having trouble with and see if unchecking "Col-bg" has any effect on your situation.  If it doesn't, put it back how it was.

Sorry, but that is about all I can think of right now.

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., boudewyns@b... wrote:
> I feel silly I can't figure this out, but some of my new enties in 
> Shadow come out red, some are black. I can't seem to enforce 
> uniformly my preferred black. I'm using 1,5,6.
> 
> Suggestions appreciated. Please be kind.
> 
> Bob

From: irrsinn@y...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 3:18am
Subject: Re: HELP! - Can't Open Files On New CLIE

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Jul 2001 mark@M... wrote:
> 
> > Been using ShadowPlan on my Visor Prism and worked great. This 
weekend I 
> > bought a new Sony CLIE 710C. Transfered my files over to it and 
most things 
> > work fine. However, when I try to open my ShadowPlan files that I 
created on 
> > Prism on the CLIE I get an error message:
> > 
> > "Bad Load!
> > 
> > The list could not be loaded !"
> > 
> > I am able to create a new list from scratch.
> > 
> > I would like to be able to open my old files as I did a lot of 
work on them.
> 
> 	Are you sure you've installed the latest version of
> Shadow? (ie: An older version of Shadow may not be able to load 
files
> created on a newer version...)  If you're running 1.5.6 say, then 
you
> shoudl be able to work on any Shadow file, unless it is very old 
(from 1.3
> or 1.2 say, in which case oyu need to follow a few upgrades to get 
the
> files updated). The only other option is your files are corrupted.. 
but I
> bet you need only upgrade your Shadow..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

I am having a similar problem with a Clie 710C.  My old Palm was a 
Vx, running 1.5.6 (where all the files were created).  I receive no 
error message--my Palm just freezes and I have to do a soft reset.  I 
can create new files, but when I add something to them or re-open 
them, the Palm freezes.  I have tried beaming the files from Shadow 
Plan itself and from BeamWare, neither of which worked.  Any 
suggestions?

Lissa

From: verxion@p...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 3:31am
Subject: Re: HELP! - Can't Open Files On New CLIE

What program(s) or hardware did you use to back up your Vx and then restore to your Clie?  I know for instance that some of the configuration information should NOT be restored.

I have upgraded MANY MANY palms in my day, and what I have found works best is the following:

1. Do a complete and total backup of my previous unit with Backup Buddy.

2. If at ALL possible, purchase my new unit while I still have possession of my older one.

3. Move my backup directory OUT of the palm directory on my computer.  Uninstall Backup Buddy, uninstall palm desktop.

4. Install new palm desktop from new palm company.  Install latest backup buddy software.

5. Do a hotsynch of my brand new palm with none of my previous data or programs in it yet.

6. Go to the old hotsynch directory that I moved out of the palm directory, and tell all software to re-install to my new palm EXCEPT for saved and unsaved preferences.  (This means all my program .PRC files and all of my data .PDB files)  Special care should be taken to NOT install .PRC's that are Palm model specific.

7. Now try the software on the new Palm.  Go through each program one at a time, ensure the data is still there, and make sure they are properly registered (Their registration is PROBABLY gone due to your not restoring the preferences and saved preferences).

8. This SHOULD result in a nicely working Palm with you old programs and data.

These steps may not help you, I don't know.  The steps may not be possible for you at this point.  I am just offering them up as a possible way to "get there from here".

If you didn't follow a similar process to what I outlined above, can you describe how you DID get your data from the old palm to the new one?  Perhaps some portion of that description will help determine what happened.

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., irrsinn@y... wrote:
> I am having a similar problem with a Clie 710C.  My old Palm was a 
> Vx, running 1.5.6 (where all the files were created).  I receive no 
> error message--my Palm just freezes and I have to do a soft reset.  I 
> can create new files, but when I add something to them or re-open 
> them, the Palm freezes.  I have tried beaming the files from Shadow 
> Plan itself and from BeamWare, neither of which worked.  Any 
> suggestions?
> 
> Lissa

From: opitz@s...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 4:00am
Subject: Re: New messages are red!

Bob,

Have you set some of the items to be highlighted in red? If so, 
creating a new item that matches the highlight condition will make it 
red.

Bob


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., boudewyns@b... wrote:
> I feel silly I can't figure this out, but some of my new enties in 
> Shadow come out red, some are black. I can't seem to enforce 
> uniformly my preferred black. I'm using 1,5,6.
> 
> Suggestions appreciated. Please be kind.
> 
> Bob

From: drumgirl313@y...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 4:22am
Subject: RE: RE: Question Re: Categories

>I would like to see the date that I insert a new child.  So far I've
>only seen where you can insert the target date.  I have been
>inserting a date stamp in the attached note instead.

Would setting the start date help you any?  You could go into details for
the item and change the start date to today unless you are actually using
that field for the start date of an item. Just a thought...



Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2¢ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************

From: Carolyn Dean  <caro488@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 4:38am
Subject: Re: how NOT to learn Shadow

Well, I just spent 6 hours learning how to use Shadow
Plan by doing Everything the hard way, and then a few
minutes later, finding the easy way (Oh, so you CAN
duplicate a list - and you can rename a list!!!)

I grafittied in 6 lists of activities, and then, as I
was reading over them, realized that the place
organization wasn't even helpful. So I saw the entire
plan from a different point of view, reorganized by
type of job, and RE grafittied all of it (now 4
lists).

Then, I realized that what I really want is a
time-frame- organized list and.... (now five different
lists)

But I have to say that I don't think the time was
wasted - not just learning to use Shadow, but in
seeing, really seeing what I was trying to organize.
(But God help me if I have to do this for everythign I
want to organize!!)

I really love this program! I m going to register it
now...but I am very tired...
Thanks
C


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 0:07pm
Subject: Re: New messages are red!

On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 boudewyns@b... wrote:

> I feel silly I can't figure this out, but some of my new enties in 
> Shadow come out red, some are black. I can't seem to enforce 
> uniformly my preferred black. I'm using 1,5,6.
> 
> Suggestions appreciated. Please be kind.

	You've likely activated a hilight filter; I think Hilight is under
the List pulldown menu. Just bring it up and turn it off.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 0:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: HELP! - Can't Open Files On New CLIE

On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 irrsinn@y... wrote:

> I am having a similar problem with a Clie 710C.  My old Palm was a 
> Vx, running 1.5.6 (where all the files were created).  I receive no 
> error message--my Palm just freezes and I have to do a soft reset.  I 
> can create new files, but when I add something to them or re-open 
> them, the Palm freezes.  I have tried beaming the files from Shadow 
> Plan itself and from BeamWare, neither of which worked.  Any 
> suggestions?

	Shadow+Clie has a problem; you either need to run Shadow withotu
the col-bg option (list prefs), or in 160x160 mode, currently. So, open
the troublesom lists in 160x160, turn off col-bg, then return to highres
mode, or else just run in 160x160 all the time. (Somethign to do with the
bg blows up the Clie in highres mode :/)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 0:36pm
Subject: Re: New messages are red!

Ok, now I feel like an idiot.  I am certain this is what is wrong.  The hilight filter HAS to be what is in effect.

/me slaps self.  :)

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 boudewyns@b... wrote:
> 
> > I feel silly I can't figure this out, but some of my new enties in 
> > Shadow come out red, some are black. I can't seem to enforce 
> > uniformly my preferred black. I'm using 1,5,6.
> > 
> > Suggestions appreciated. Please be kind.
> 
> 	You've likely activated a hilight filter; I think Hilight is under
> the List pulldown menu. Just bring it up and turn it off.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Bear  <ace_xe@y...>
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 0:37pm
Subject: Re: My Wishes

<snip-pit>
> So far all I know is that the first line of the attached note has 
TWO pound symbols - that is how you know it is a link/icon.  As far as 
the format of what remains on the line, I am still working on getting 
that info.
>  
<Snip-pit>

HEY, HEY, HEY.  While were at it can we re-hash my prevoius request of 
adding 50 lines of code or less to support AN address linking for 
todo's? (I believe a pony was also requested, but it was couple weeks 
ago and still no pony!)

Another option may be as follows:  Can someone, anyone, get a well 
written and VERY polite form-letter composed for Iambic and the 
makeres of DB4?  Perhaps if we hit them with a mass request from 
REGISTERED users of their respective products we could get them to 
'sit down' with Jeff and hammer out a genuine standard for information 
cross-linking.

Just a thought.

BEAR
Evil at work

From: verxion@p...
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 0:39pm
Subject: Jeff: Tap scrolling

I know you had mentioned in the past that you wanted to put in that tap scrolling code (you know, tap at the top to scroll up quickly, tap just above the middle to go up a bit slower).  I was just wondering if you had an idea of the timeline.  I guess the more I use shadow the more I end up wanting to mirror the comments about how the scrollbars are really nice in many ways (But I do understand why you went without them)

-Joe Chott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jul 6, 2001 1:22pm
Subject: Re: Jeff: Tap scrolling

On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> I know you had mentioned in the past that you wanted to put in that
> tap scrolling code (you know, tap at the top to scroll up quickly, tap
> just above the middle to go up a bit slower).  I was just wondering if
> you had an idea of the timeline.  I guess the more I use shadow the
> more I end up wanting to mirror the comments about how the scrollbars
> are really nice in many ways (But I do understand why you went without
> them)

	heh. ITs quite a complex and "scientific" *g* method by which I
put things in. (In other words, I don't really know ;)  The itch I have at
the moment of free time has a higher chance of being implemented than
other items. An itch is when people are bugging me about it, or when its
on my todo list and cool. Given free time, the item that can fit into that
time with the most it