From: verxion@p...
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 0:29pm
Subject: Private records?

Jeff,

Is there some way to set records to be private in Shadow Plan?  If there is, I am obviously quite dense, I couldn't figure out how to make an entire list private, or a specific record, or a note. . .

-Joe Chott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 0:48pm
Subject: Re: Private records?

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> Is there some way to set records to be private in Shadow Plan?  If
> there is, I am obviously quite dense, I couldn't figure out how to
> make an entire list private, or a specific record, or a note. . .

	There isn't privacy stuff in Shadow yet; I didn't worry about the
palm built in privacy, since its a farce.. my goal was to do real
encryption, but obviously thats a ways off. There are 3rd party apps that
can encrypt whole databases, which ought to work fine with Shadow (file by
file basis). I may add private record palm-style-farcicle-protection
support though, since it can be useful just to keep the kids out :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 1:25pm
Subject: Re: Private records?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> 
> > Is there some way to set records to be private in Shadow Plan?  If
> > there is, I am obviously quite dense, I couldn't figure out how to
> > make an entire list private, or a specific record, or a note. . .
> 
> 	There isn't privacy stuff in Shadow yet; I didn't worry about the
> palm built in privacy, since its a farce.. my goal was to do real
> encryption, but obviously thats a ways off. There are 3rd party apps that
> can encrypt whole databases, which ought to work fine with Shadow (file by
> file basis). I may add private record palm-style-farcicle-protection
> support though, since it can be useful just to keep the kids out :)
> 

I do realize private records mean nothing.  I mean, in my own code, reading other people's databases in my OWN program, I have to check if they ARE private, and then mask them if they are.  That clearly informed me that there was no REAL protection there.  :)

I mainly want it so people borrowing the palm won't see them.  That sort of thing.

-Joe Chott

From: John Lill  <johnlill2@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 3:47pm
Subject: 1.56 windows install

I have not been updating Shadow on my Palm because I have been very 
busy with a large project - and Shadow was a GREAT help in keeping 
all my tasks straight and on schedule! Any way, I just downloaded 
1.56 and used the Windows installer. The default path to install the 
files was C:\Program Files\Jeff Mitchell / Code Jedi\Shadow Plan 
which of course is an illegal path\file name. I changed the path and 
the everything was OK.

I assume this is old news but I didn't see anything on this in the 
forum.

John

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 3:52pm
Subject: Re: 1.56 windows install

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Lill wrote:

> I have not been updating Shadow on my Palm because I have been very 
> busy with a large project - and Shadow was a GREAT help in keeping 
> all my tasks straight and on schedule! Any way, I just downloaded 
> 1.56 and used the Windows installer. The default path to install the 
> files was C:\Program Files\Jeff Mitchell / Code Jedi\Shadow Plan 
> which of course is an illegal path\file name. I changed the path and 
> the everything was OK.
> 
> I assume this is old news but I didn't see anything on this in the 
> forum.

	Oh really? It shouldn't use that default path. I'll fix that for
1.6.0 :P  I wish the installer remembered previous installs, so it could
pick up the previous path by default.. but I don't write it, sadly ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: John Lill  <johnlill2@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 5:15pm
Subject: Shadow & LapTopHack

I have just upgraded to Shadow 1.56. LapTopHack is not functional in 
Shadow - none of the features work. I have no problem with any other 
app. Any ideas? I can use the keyboard but the LapTopHack functions 
just aren't there.

John

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:00pm
Subject: Re: Shadow & LapTopHack

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Lill wrote:

> I have just upgraded to Shadow 1.56. LapTopHack is not functional in 
> Shadow - none of the features work. I have no problem with any other 
> app. Any ideas? I can use the keyboard but the LapTopHack functions 
> just aren't there.

	I assume it didn't work on the earlier version either. What does
laptophack do again? I'm sure there are other users of it .. I think I
remember someone talking about how useful it was here.. hmm..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: John Lill  <johnlill2@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:10pm
Subject: Re: Shadow & LapTopHack

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
What does
> laptophack do again? I'm sure there are other users of it .. I 
think I
> remember someone talking about how useful it was here.. hmm..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
LapTopHack provides a means to access most functions in an app 
without having to tap with the stylus. The idea is to use the Palm as 
a small Laptop PC. very helpful and powerful.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow & LapTopHack

On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Lill wrote:

> LapTopHack provides a means to access most functions in an app 
> without having to tap with the stylus. The idea is to use the Palm as 
> a small Laptop PC. very helpful and powerful.

	What does it do, in particular? (ie: IIRC, you have a little
cursor on the screen, and you can use a palm keyboards cursor keys to move
the cursor around, and then hit keys to tap, or something?)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:26pm
Subject: Re: Shadow & LapTopHack

Jeff,

Nope, you are thinking of pointerhack.  Much different animal.  Pointerhack gives you mouse functionality with a keyboard.  laptophack is a complete toolset to provide scripting of other program actions, ability to run most any menu item or feature sans pen.  It is yet another program from Paul Nevai of pedit fame.  It is quite an amazing program.

For what it is worth, laptophack works fine for me in shadowplan, the only problem I have is that neither shadow plan nor laptophack let me select a specific FILE to open.  Every other function is keyboardable with the combo though.

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2001, John Lill wrote:
> 
> > LapTopHack provides a means to access most functions in an app 
> > without having to tap with the stylus. The idea is to use the Palm as 
> > a small Laptop PC. very helpful and powerful.
> 
> 	What does it do, in particular? (ie: IIRC, you have a little
> cursor on the screen, and you can use a palm keyboards cursor keys to move
> the cursor around, and then hit keys to tap, or something?)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: John Lill  <johnlill2@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 10:49pm
Subject: Re: Shadow & LapTopHack

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., verxion@p... wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> Nope, you are thinking of pointerhack.  Much different animal.  
Pointerhack gives you mouse functionality with a keyboard.  
laptophack is a complete toolset to provide scripting of other 
program actions, ability to run most any menu item or feature sans 
pen.  It is yet another program from Paul Nevai of pedit fame.  It is 
quite an amazing program.
> 
> For what it is worth, laptophack works fine for me in shadowplan, 
the only problem I have is that neither shadow plan nor laptophack 
let me select a specific FILE to open.  Every other function is 
keyboardable with the combo though.
> 
> -Joe Chott

Joe,

I'm glad you responded to this. Much better job than I would have 
done! Someone on the peditors forum (Pedit & LapTopHack) responded 
that they, too, can use Shadow 1.56 & LapTopHack. So it must be just 
me. I'll play with unloading other hacks and see what happens. It's 
just strange that Shadow is the only app that does not work with LTH 
for me.

Thanks.

John

From: John Lill  <johnlill2@y...>
Date: Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:34pm
Subject: Re: Shadow & LapTopHack

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., verxion@p... wrote:
> > 
> > For what it is worth, laptophack works fine for me in shadowplan, 
> the only problem I have is that neither shadow plan nor laptophack 
> let me select a specific FILE to open.  Every other function is 
> keyboardable with the combo though.
> > 
> > -Joe Chott
> 

Joe & Jeff,

I feel pretty stupid. I thought I had the latest version of 
LapTopHack but I didn't. When I installed 2.98B of LTH, it gets along 
very well with Shadow. Thanks to both of you for your help.

John

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 7:22am
Subject: Re: Shadow Filtering

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> ...Further, I made [sic] add basic functions in there, for the
> really insane .. say @@SUMLEVEL@@ to have the specific misc-field
> show the sum of numbners in the same level, or something. 

Functions!  Now THAT's cool!  You never cease to amaze.  :-)

Greg

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 7:46am
Subject: Re: Shadow Plan - some feature requests

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	It'll be awhile before Shadow can open two lists and display
> them same time (split screen), or alternate betwen the two (memory
> constraints).. so the harder part of linking to an item in another
> list is the UI to set up the link :)

Have you thought about a UI scheme similar to LifeBalance's Move 
feature?  Basically, when you have an item selected and you want to 
move it to another place in the outline, a window pops up that 
consumes the entire screen, with the outline expanded only enough to 
show the current level.  This is where you select the destination for 
your item.  The outline expands and collapses depending on the target 
selection.  For example, if you have the following outline:

A
  A-1
    A-1-1
    A-1-2
    A-1-3
  A-2
    A-2-1
    A-2-2
  A-3
    A-3-1
B
  B-1
  B-2

and you want to move A-1-3 to position A-3-2, you select it and 
pick "Move".  Here is what you see:

A
  A-1
    A-1-1
    A-1-2

You then select A, and get the following:

A
  A-1
  A-2
  A-3

Select A-3, and reveal:

A
  A-3
    A-3-1

Selecting OK at this point will place the item at A-3-2.  It's very 
slick and avoids having to wade through an entire outline.

Do you think this sort of model might carry over well to targeting a 
link position, even if it's in another list?  Once you present the 
user with a pick list of lists, you could open up the target list and 
display only the first level of the outline, then allow navigation 
like above to the target item.  Does it help relieve the memory 
constraint issue at all?  Maybe you've already thought about this...

Of course, the ability to move list items around like this would be 
welcome on its own. :-)

Greg

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:48am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow Filtering

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> > ...Further, I made [sic] add basic functions in there, for the
> > really insane .. say @@SUMLEVEL@@ to have the specific misc-field
> > show the sum of numbners in the same level, or something. 
> 
> Functions!  Now THAT's cool!  You never cease to amaze.  :-)

	See, thats he thing .. is it useful, or just cool ;) I see it
useful in at least a couple of instances...

Task		Man Hours
Task		Man Hours
Task		Man Hours
Total		-- sum --

	Or the same for a shopping list..

Item	Cost
Item	Cost
Total	----

		But not really useful, since you only get one misc
field.. so functions can only operate on their sublevel, say, to make it
implementable..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:54am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow Plan - some feature requests

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> Have you thought about a UI scheme similar to LifeBalance's Move 
> feature?  Basically, when you have an item selected and you want to 
> move it to another place in the outline, a window pops up that 
> consumes the entire screen, with the outline expanded only enough to 
> show the current level.  This is where you select the destination for 
> your item.  The outline expands and collapses depending on the target 
> selection.  For example, if you have the following outline:
> 
	:
	:
> Selecting OK at this point will place the item at A-3-2.  It's very 
> slick and avoids having to wade through an entire outline.

	I thought about this long aog, but it seems more laborious than
cut-and-paste. For instance, more code to handle the extra window and
such, and really.. all you're doing is picking, cutting, moving, and
pasting. So why have you guys learn another interface (albeit simple),
when you can just scroll around the interface your'e used to, and hit
paste/move? :)

> Do you think this sort of model might carry over well to targeting a 
> link position, even if it's in another list?  Once you present the 

	Maybe. Conceptually pretty simple.

> user with a pick list of lists, you could open up the target list and 
> display only the first level of the outline, then allow navigation 
> like above to the target item.  Does it help relieve the memory 
> constraint issue at all?  Maybe you've already thought about this...

	Actually, whats tough is proper indentation and such, sinc that
requires a lot of information. I coudl do something like the above, but at
a potential speed cost.. ie: Not load any of the information.. just open
the other file, show an item, seek down, show a child, seek down, show
another child, etc.. so the display might draw slowly .. draw a few
entries.. wait a sec, then draw some more. (dependong what we wish to
show; Doing the above would draw quickly, since it includes everythign
below selected level? Dispaying only current level and say one level deep
would take a bity of seeking around, but present less to the user)

> Of course, the ability to move list items around like this would be 
> welcome on its own. :-)

	Advantages over cut/move?

	So, okay, this is essentially what I was thinking of anyway, but
with the ability to "zoom" up and down levels sort of. Possible.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 0:02pm
Subject: So .. top desired features?

Besides desktop application (whcih is taking awhile.. life has
been busy :(, what is everyones top goals for the next big release?

	ie:

	Link to items in other lists (for goto)
	Custom filter
	Misc text field and basic level-oriented functions
	Sort Options (sort by checked, unchecked)
	Progress can be undefined, to allow more flexibility and
		cleaning up impact of check/uncheck
	Mixed item finishing .. handle some odd cases that can come up,
		and if item not showing checkbox, don't count it towards
		parent autocheck, and if not showing progress, don't
		count it to parent progress average
	List popup -- recent 5 or 10 lists
	View mode -- tapping on screen scrolls up or down by various
		amounts instead of editting

	etc.

	List your top idea, in order of priority. I will be doing basic
changes, like making the expand/collapse arrow not usable for drag and
drop intiiation, so that it responds better for expand/collapse. And bug
fixes.. theres a few small ones in there I think.

	I'll pick a few of the above for 1.6.0, and work on the desktop
app for awhile..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow Filtering

I'll have to think about it, but given all the uses people have
come up with for HandyShopper, I'd say that functions could
really provide some potential. 

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:
> 
> > > ...Further, I made [sic] add basic functions in there, for the
> > > really insane .. say @@SUMLEVEL@@ to have the specific misc-field
> > > show the sum of numbners in the same level, or something. 
> > 
> > Functions!  Now THAT's cool!  You never cease to amaze.  :-)
> 
> 	See, thats he thing .. is it useful, or just cool ;) I see it
> useful in at least a couple of instances...
> 
> Task		Man Hours
> Task		Man Hours
> Task		Man Hours
> Total		-- sum --
> 
> 	Or the same for a shopping list..
> 
> Item	Cost
> Item	Cost
> Total	----
> 
> 		But not really useful, since you only get one misc
> field.. so functions can only operate on their sublevel, say, to make it
> implementable..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 2:29pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

For me, the biggest gain would be to filter by link so I could
filter against people I've assigned things to. Not sure how
this would work in the areas of todo links or memo links, but
it would be very handy for address links.

Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> 
> 	Besides desktop application (whcih is taking awhile.. life has
> been busy :(, what is everyones top goals for the next big release?
> 
> 	ie:
> 
> 	Link to items in other lists (for goto)
> 	Custom filter
> 	Misc text field and basic level-oriented functions
> 	Sort Options (sort by checked, unchecked)
> 	Progress can be undefined, to allow more flexibility and
> 		cleaning up impact of check/uncheck
> 	Mixed item finishing .. handle some odd cases that can come up,
> 		and if item not showing checkbox, don't count it towards
> 		parent autocheck, and if not showing progress, don't
> 		count it to parent progress average
> 	List popup -- recent 5 or 10 lists
> 	View mode -- tapping on screen scrolls up or down by various
> 		amounts instead of editting
> 
> 	etc.
> 
> 	List your top idea, in order of priority. I will be doing basic
> changes, like making the expand/collapse arrow not usable for drag and
> drop intiiation, so that it responds better for expand/collapse. And bug
> fixes.. theres a few small ones in there I think.
> 
> 	I'll pick a few of the above for 1.6.0, and work on the desktop
> app for awhile..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>

From: Bob Beveridge  <bbeveridge@y...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:16pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

One thing I often have trouble with is the item "highlight" - the currently
selected item is black (reverse video?), which I find visually distracting.
So I am always tapping the selected item to un-highlight it. However, often
this tap doesn't work, so I have to tap it again, but if the taps are too
close together, it of course opens the item for editing.

So my suggested improvement would be to allow user selection of the
highlight color - this way I could use a more subtle highlight color, so I
would feel less compelled to tap on the currently selected item to unselect
it, and I would get less frustrated..

This is obviously not a major issue, but it would be a nice UI improvement.

thanks,

Bob B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 5:02 AM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] So .. top desired features?


>
> Besides desktop application (whcih is taking awhile.. life has
> been busy :(, what is everyones top goals for the next big release?
>
> ie:
>
> Link to items in other lists (for goto)
> Custom filter
> Misc text field and basic level-oriented functions
> Sort Options (sort by checked, unchecked)
> Progress can be undefined, to allow more flexibility and
> cleaning up impact of check/uncheck
> Mixed item finishing .. handle some odd cases that can come up,
> and if item not showing checkbox, don't count it towards
> parent autocheck, and if not showing progress, don't
> count it to parent progress average
> List popup -- recent 5 or 10 lists
> View mode -- tapping on screen scrolls up or down by various
> amounts instead of editting
>
> etc.
>
> List your top idea, in order of priority. I will be doing basic
> changes, like making the expand/collapse arrow not usable for drag and
> drop intiiation, so that it responds better for expand/collapse. And bug
> fixes.. theres a few small ones in there I think.
>
> I'll pick a few of the above for 1.6.0, and work on the desktop
> app for awhile..
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:16pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Learned wrote:

> For me, the biggest gain would be to filter by link so I could
> filter against people I've assigned things to. Not sure how
> this would work in the areas of todo links or memo links, but
> it would be very handy for address links.

	Sort by link, maybe, but you can have so many links I'm sure sure
it makes sense.. more appropriate for the future tag ability, and maybe
sort by misc text and put names into misc text.. hm...

	I'll think about it..

		jeff

> 
> Quoting Jeff Mitchell (support@s...):
> > 
> > 	Besides desktop application (whcih is taking awhile.. life has
> > been busy :(, what is everyones top goals for the next big release?
> > 
> > 	ie:
> > 
> > 	Link to items in other lists (for goto)
> > 	Custom filter
> > 	Misc text field and basic level-oriented functions
> > 	Sort Options (sort by checked, unchecked)
> > 	Progress can be undefined, to allow more flexibility and
> > 		cleaning up impact of check/uncheck
> > 	Mixed item finishing .. handle some odd cases that can come up,
> > 		and if item not showing checkbox, don't count it towards
> > 		parent autocheck, and if not showing progress, don't
> > 		count it to parent progress average
> > 	List popup -- recent 5 or 10 lists
> > 	View mode -- tapping on screen scrolls up or down by various
> > 		amounts instead of editting
> > 
> > 	etc.
> > 
> > 	List your top idea, in order of priority. I will be doing basic
> > changes, like making the expand/collapse arrow not usable for drag and
> > drop intiiation, so that it responds better for expand/collapse. And bug
> > fixes.. theres a few small ones in there I think.
> > 
> > 	I'll pick a few of the above for 1.6.0, and work on the desktop
> > app for awhile..
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:26pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

I have to agree here, even if it isn't user selectable, the current
highlight needs to change the text color as well. I cannot read the
highlighted text on a IIIc.

Quoting Bob Beveridge (bbeveridge@y...):
> One thing I often have trouble with is the item "highlight" - the currently
> selected item is black (reverse video?), which I find visually distracting.
> So I am always tapping the selected item to un-highlight it. However, often
> this tap doesn't work, so I have to tap it again, but if the taps are too
> close together, it of course opens the item for editing.
> 
> So my suggested improvement would be to allow user selection of the
> highlight color - this way I could use a more subtle highlight color, so I
> would feel less compelled to tap on the currently selected item to unselect
> it, and I would get less frustrated..
> 
> This is obviously not a major issue, but it would be a nice UI improvement.
>

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 4:10pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

My top desired features, in order of preference:

1. Link to items in other lists (for goto)

1a. If we could click on the resultant link, get thrown to the other list where that item in that list was zoomed to appear as the root of the list (even if in fact it was a child), that would be awesome.  Surely, this would need to be a configurable option, but it would be really nice.

1b. Any chance of being able to SEE that single item sans children directly IN the list that linked to it?  Then we could have something "live" in one list, but be linked to, visible in, and editable in, a myriad other lists.  The power of that is mind boggling.  I am doing the whole "GTD" model (Getting Things Done by David Allen), and that sort of thing would be invaluable to those of us implementing similar systems in Shadow Plan.  Even if it wouldn't be editable in the other lists, but merely visible as a "normal" item except that clicking on it took you to the other list, that would rock.

2. Ability to use KEYBOARD to scroll on file selection list (The initial ShadowPlan startup screen)

3. Custom filter

3a. I really want to be able to filter based upon low priority items

3b. I would really like to be able to make a list where the filter applies ONLY to the parents - ie, if a parent matches then all its children match no matter what.  Specifically, I have a priority list in which I have priorities assigned to each item because it is by far the easiest way to get them quickly into the order I want.  The problem is, if I filter by highest priority, none of the children show up because they have no assigned priority (they are "-"'s).  I realize this is not something that should be default, but it IS something I would like to see as an option.

4. Sort Options (sort by checked, unchecked)

5. User selectable highlight color

For right now, that is it from me.  Those are my most urgently wanted features.  :)

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Besides desktop application (whcih is taking awhile.. life has
> been busy :(, what is everyones top goals for the next big release?
> 
> 	ie:
> 
> 	Link to items in other lists (for goto)
> 	Custom filter
> 	Misc text field and basic level-oriented functions
> 	Sort Options (sort by checked, unchecked)
> 	Progress can be undefined, to allow more flexibility and
> 		cleaning up impact of check/uncheck
> 	Mixed item finishing .. handle some odd cases that can come up,
> 		and if item not showing checkbox, don't count it towards
> 		parent autocheck, and if not showing progress, don't
> 		count it to parent progress average
> 	List popup -- recent 5 or 10 lists
> 	View mode -- tapping on screen scrolls up or down by various
> 		amounts instead of editting
> 
> 	etc.
> 
> 	List your top idea, in order of priority. I will be doing basic
> changes, like making the expand/collapse arrow not usable for drag and
> drop intiiation, so that it responds better for expand/collapse. And bug
> fixes.. theres a few small ones in there I think.
> 
> 	I'll pick a few of the above for 1.6.0, and work on the desktop
> app for awhile..
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:57pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Learned <learned@t...> wrote:
> 
> I have to agree here, even if it isn't user selectable, the current
> highlight needs to change the text color as well. I cannot read the
> highlighted text on a IIIc.
> 
> Quoting Bob Beveridge (bbeveridge@y...):
> > One thing I often have trouble with is the item "highlight" - the currently
> > selected item is black (reverse video?), which I find visually distracting.
> > So I am always tapping the selected item to un-highlight it. However, often
> > this tap doesn't work, so I have to tap it again, but if the taps are too
> > close together, it of course opens the item for editing.
> > 
> > So my suggested improvement would be to allow user selection of the
> > highlight color - this way I could use a more subtle highlight color, so I
> > would feel less compelled to tap on the currently selected item to unselect
> > it, and I would get less frustrated..
> > 
> > This is obviously not a major issue, but it would be a nice UI improvement.
> >

I agree on this one - readability of highlighted items is VERY difficult both on my Visor Prism and my Fiance's PalmIIIc.  Just as an FYI Jeff - it is purple on black.  :(

-Joe Chott

From: opitz@s...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 4:05pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Besides desktop application (whcih is taking awhile.. life has
> been busy :(, what is everyones top goals for the next big release?
> 
>

I'd like to see:
           The "coming soon!" Doc import (I have a book-length project 
that has gone way beyond what memos can handle, and I'm really 
starting to wonder if I made a mistake to use Shadow for organizing 
it)

           The misc. text field, including the ability to sort and 
filter by it. (Databases are nice in some ways, but you can't organize 
and view by heirarchy. Outlines are nice in other ways, but you can't 
sort that well by other criteria. If you could start to combine 
both...)

 Bob

From: Ken Gordon  <ksg@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:17pm
Subject: 1.6.0 desired features

Let me add my vote for item-level categories.

From: Learned  <learned@t...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:27pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

I've actually thought about this quite a bit, especially as
I start looking at things from an XML perspective. The
misc text field is a start, but the ability to define fields
AND still maintain the outline structure, would be seriously
cool. I've also thought about being able to actually pivot an
outline around a child entry...for example, 
assume you had an outline of restaurants as follows

Arizona
	Phoenix
		Mexican
			Restaurant A
			Restaurant B
		French
			Restaurant C
	Scotsdale
		Mexican
			Restaurant D
Alaska
	Fairbanks
		French
			Restaurant E

It would be impressive to be able to spin the outline (so
to speak) around the cusine layer, so you came out with...

Mexican
	Arizona
		Phoenix
			Restaurant A
			Restaurant B
		Scotsdale
			Restaurant D
French
	Arizona
		Phoenix
			Restaurant C
	Alaska
		Fairbanks
			Restaurant E

Anyway, this is getting into a whole new type of
product, and way off-topic from Shadow-Plan, the
comment just triggered my thoughts again. Sorry
about the rambling all.

Quoting opitz@s... (opitz@s...):
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
>            The misc. text field, including the ability to sort and 
> filter by it. (Databases are nice in some ways, but you can't organize 
> and view by heirarchy. Outlines are nice in other ways, but you can't 
> sort that well by other criteria. If you could start to combine 
> both...)

From: omar-@home.com
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:30pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

The reverse video as a highlight is actually a pretty big issue for me.

In addition to Bob's comments, the hilight also obscures the cute bubble check circle that I like alot.  A user-selected highlight color would be ideal (as long as lighter colors were an option).

michael walsh

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Bob Beveridge" <bbeveridge@y...> wrote:
> One thing I often have trouble with is the item "highlight" - the currently selected item is black (reverse video?), which I find visually distracting. So I am always tapping the selected item to un-highlight it. However, often this tap doesn't work, so I have to tap it again, but if the taps are too close together, it of course opens the item for editing.
> 
> So my suggested improvement would be to allow user selection of the
highlight color - this way I could use a more subtle highlight color, so I would feel less compelled to tap on the currently selected item to unselect it, and I would get less frustrated..

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:44pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> 1. Link to items in other lists (for goto)
> 
> 1a. If we could click on the resultant link, get thrown to the other
> list where that item in that list was zoomed to appear as the root of
> the list (even if in fact it was a child), that would be awesome.  
> Surely, this would need to be a configurable option, but it would be
> really nice.

	What makes this so cool? Sounds easy.. just a goto link (already
supported by Find), and Zoom (alreayd supported). The linking issue is the
GUI. But is this really useful? Or why not just do the goto, and then do
the zoom yourself?

> 1b. Any chance of being able to SEE that single item sans children
> directly IN the list that linked to it?  Then we could have something
> "live" in one list, but be linked to, visible in, and editable in, a
> myriad other lists.  The power of that is mind boggling.  I am doing
> the whole "GTD" model (Getting Things Done by David Allen), and that
> sort of thing would be invaluable to those of us implementing similar
> systems in Shadow Plan.  Even if it wouldn't be editable in the other
> lists, but merely visible as a "normal" item except that clicking on
> it took you to the other list, that would rock.

	Maybe someday editable, but for now my goal is to make it so when
you tap the link arrow, it shows the first 20 chars or something of the
title text from the other list. (ie: Otherwise, if one item linked to 5
other items in the other list, how woudl you know which items were linked
to?)

> 2. Ability to use KEYBOARD to scroll on file selection list (The
> initial ShadowPlan startup screen)

	Yeah, these little things.. just keep bugging me :)

> 3a. I really want to be able to filter based upon low priority items
> 3b. I would really like to be able to make a list where the filter
> applies ONLY to the parents - ie, if a parent matches then all its
> children match no matter what.  Specifically, I have a priority list
> in which I have priorities assigned to each item because it is by far

	Remind me when the custom fitler stuff starts to happen.

> 5. User selectable highlight color
> 
> For right now, that is it from me.  Those are my most urgently wanted
> features.  :)

	I'll think about this :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:52pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> I agree on this one - readability of highlighted items is VERY
> difficult both on my Visor Prism and my Fiance's PalmIIIc.  Just as an
> FYI Jeff - it is purple on black.  :(

	Actually, it is always black with white text. It is only purple if
you're setting item colours, and they're clashing. I use an OS call to
request a reverse setup, and colour units handle it oddly (hey, its
developed on a 3c and Prism ;).

	I am hoping to add 3 or 4 colour options, but not sure when.. I
always look at them as nice-to-haves .. ie: background-colour-1,
background-colour-2, selection-colour, and default text colour.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 opitz@s... wrote:

>            The "coming soon!" Doc import (I have a book-length project 
> that has gone way beyond what memos can handle, and I'm really 
> starting to wonder if I made a mistake to use Shadow for organizing 
> it)

	Shadow is somewhat of a democracy; I'm not a Shadow power user
(odd, that ;), so you need to let me know these things. If I never hear a
request, I don't look into it ;) DOC Import is on my list, but I get far
away the most requests for the desktop app, and other requests are pretty
rare these days.

	I'll see what I can do..

>            The misc. text field, including the ability to sort and 
> filter by it. (Databases are nice in some ways, but you can't organize 
> and view by heirarchy. Outlines are nice in other ways, but you can't 
> sort that well by other criteria. If you could start to combine 
> both...)

	Shadow Palm definitely own't be as flexible as a database, in
terms of adding new fields and doing crazy stored sorts and such. If I
rewrote it from ground up, maybe, but then it'd be a big mess, directed at
too many users and becoming a big mess, no doubt :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 9:10pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
> 
> > 1. Link to items in other lists (for goto)
> > 
> > 1a. If we could click on the resultant link, get thrown to the other
> > list where that item in that list was zoomed to appear as the root of
> > the list (even if in fact it was a child), that would be awesome.  
> > Surely, this would need to be a configurable option, but it would be
> > really nice.
> 
> 	What makes this so cool? Sounds easy.. just a goto link (already
> supported by Find), and Zoom (alreayd supported). The linking issue is the
> GUI. But is this really useful? Or why not just do the goto, and then do
> the zoom yourself?

I am doing this with linker right now since ShadowPlan doesn't directly support links to itself yet (except at the file level).  My problem is that if a the element I am linking to is nested 3 or 4 deep in the outline and I go to that element, it is difficult to see its children in the heavily indented world that it lives in.  So I need to tell it to zoom EVERY TIME I traverse links.  As a result, I would like a way to do it automatically.  :)

-Joe Chott

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 9:37pm
Subject: Shadow Plan Praise

Jeff, just thought you would like to see this.  :)

-Joe Chott

From:  "Linda" <ladymaverick99@y...>
Date:  Wed Jun 6, 2001  6:27pm
Subject:  RE: [SHEandPDAs] lifebalance

The past week I have been trying out several outliners. I first downloaded =
LifeBalance and used it a couple of days - It was Okay,
but not "it". I once again downloaded Bonsai and liked it because it has th=
e desktop companion.  But it wasn't "it" I looked at Actioneer, Progect, Bra=
inforest, ThoughtStream, Arranger,  Info Select,  Thought Mill, ThoughtManag=
er, Hi-Note and  ListMaker - but I ruled them all out for one reason or anot=
her. What I can't understand about my search for an outliner - why did I wai=
t until the last to download and try Shadow Plan?  I knew within a few minut=
es of using ShadowP that it was "IT".   I love Shadow Plan and the quick res=
ponse from the author of it.   The support of color was a big thing (I told =
it to turn all my overdue items to red, etc).   I register the software the =
very first day I used it - a very rare occurrence for me.  IMHO, it is great=
 and getting better everyday.  With free upgrades for life-time it is a GREA=
T deal. I want to thank everyone for sharing about their experiences - espec=
ially Gretchen.

WOW!  I am in awe!

Linda

From: run@c...
Date: Thu Jun 21, 2001 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Check this link Jeff, just saw it today

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:
snip
> drivers.. the drivers are the annoying thing. One of these days I'm 
going
> to see a Clie, and if I don't buy it, I'll buy a keyboard for my 
visor..
> 
> 		jeff
> 

You'll get a Clie:-) they are awesome and Shadow rocks on it!!!
I just got mny Clie 710 and found Shadow this past week. Man Im in 
pig heaven with all my tasks being this organized. Only problem is I 
dont have any excuses not to be anymore:-) 

Thanks for a killer app.

Rick

From: kpickens@p...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 1:22am
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

I'd have to say my top desired feature would be line item category 
support and linking it to the to do's.

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:37am
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

Jeff:

Here are my lists of "must-haves":

1) Define a TODO category for each List item.
I use Shadow with DateBk4 (on the Palm) and Outlook on the desktop.  
It would be great if I could define the category for each ToDO item I 
create without having to define a separate list.

2) I would like to be able to have a flat view which consist only of 
terminal nodes.  My list define the purpose of all items.  I now have 
to use another DateBook program to view my Todos in this manner.  
This would eliminate that need.

3) Desktop that has some connectivity with Outlook.

Norman

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 5:36am
Subject: Re: New Shadow user-question

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:
> 
> > I wonder if you could open up the FILES area in the ShadowPlan 
> > Yahoos group, ... I think it would be neato to have 
> > people upload "tutorials," ideas, and sample 
> > outlines for using the program.
> 
> But *would* people? I'll do it if I can have a few people ready to
> upload right away, so that there is content there to look at :)
> 
> 		jeff

When useful comments are made group members will suggest the item be 
added to the files section.  I think the key would be making it clear 
how to post items and who has permission to post.  

Peter R.

"All Accounting is creative."

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 6:14am
Subject: Re: New Shadow user-question

It's always a hassle to get people to take the time to do stuff like this, 
but over a long period of time, I think enough could be accumulated to be 
worthwhile. I've been pretty bogged down with deadlines, but I know of at 
least one thread in the Yahoo group where people discussed just this kind 
of thing. How about if I collect those, clean 'em up, and put 'em into 
files for people to read? Of course, I'd make sure the original posters 
gave me permission to use their info and would use their names/usernames in 
the credits.

That would be a starting place. Okeedokee?

oooieoo

------------

At 08:59 AM 06/18/2001, you wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:
>
> > I wonder if you could open up the FILES area in the ShadowPlan Yahoos
> > group, with a folder in there, for just this kind of thing. I think it
> > would be neato to have people upload "tutorials," ideas, and sample
> > outlines for using the program.
>
>         But *would* people? I'll do it if I can have a few people ready to
>upload right away, so that there is content there to look at :)
>
>                 jeff
>
> >
> > o.
> >
> > ---------
> >
> > At 05:11 AM 06/18/2001, you wrote:
> > >On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 janimoe@a... wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just dl'd the Shadow demo because I have heard so many
> > > recommendations for
> > > > it on other lists.  I've gone through the tutorial and manual, but 
> really
> > > > need some specific suggestions on how to use it.  I don't know exactly
> > > how to
> > > > set it up for best use of it's features.  Are there any websites where
> > > users
> > > > detail how they are using it that I could look at?
> > >
> > >         You could browse back in the archives, though it might be some
> > >work to climb through such a volume of postings :)
> > >
> > >         If people would post, I could create a mailing list for this sort
> > >of thing (uses, good ideas, patterns, recipes for success, etc) and then
> > >folks could add their experiences.. but I'm not sure that'd get used much,
> > >since most people are too busy already ;)
> > >
> > >                 jeff
> > >
> > >--
> > >"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > >circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > >sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > >-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > >
> > >
> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>--
>"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
>circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
>sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
>-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 8:06am
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Besides desktop application (whcih is taking awhile.. life has
> been busy :(, what is everyones top goals for the next big release?

1. Filtering across lists.  Definitely on top.  Probably too 
ambitious for 1.6.0, but I want you to know where it sits with me.

2. Faster redraw of the file list window from any operation that 
returns to it, e.g. renaming a list, closing a list, selecting a new 
file category.  This operation is VERY slow on my IIIc, regardless of 
the number of files in the category I am returning to, whether it is 
1 or 30.  I find myself spending probably 15-20% of my time in Shadow 
waiting for the redraw and, as a workaround, have started to resort 
to using file links to avoid the window as much as possible and jump 
among lists more quickly.

3. Close to #2 is faster invocation of the Link Manager (as slow as 
#2, but more tolerable because I only have to do it once for link 
setup).

4. Custom filtering, especially the ability to have more than one 
criterion at a time.

Thanks for the poll,

Greg

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 8:42am
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

Jeff:

Please add my support to item #2 & #3 from Greg.  Optimization of the 
file list and Link Manager would be great!

Norman


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., glacefield@v... wrote:
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 2. Faster redraw of the file list window from any operation that 
> returns to it, e.g. renaming a list, closing a list, selecting a 
new 
> file category.  This operation is VERY slow on my IIIc, regardless 
of 
> the number of files in the category I am returning to, whether it 
is 
> 1 or 30.  I find myself spending probably 15-20% of my time in 
Shadow 
> waiting for the redraw and, as a workaround, have started to resort 
> to using file links to avoid the window as much as possible and 
jump 
> among lists more quickly.
> 
> 3. Close to #2 is faster invocation of the Link Manager (as slow as 
> #2, but more tolerable because I only have to do it once for link 
> setup).
> 
> 4. Custom filtering, especially the ability to have more than one 
> criterion at a time.
> 
> Thanks for the poll,
> 
> Greg

From: hisimage8@y...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 0:27pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

Jeff, 

My top wish would be the ability to chose a default color for a 
list.  This would not only be nice for those of us who aren't using 
the default black but it would also help us with the highlight 
problem, which I undertand (from CESD on the DtBk4 boards) is almost 
impossible to fix.  

No. 2 would be the list popup.  I switch between lists quite a bit 
and it would be nice for it to be quicker and easier.  

No. 3 would be the behavior of the list moving up to the top of the 
page automatically when you expand an item so that as many of the 
children show as possible.  Perhaps that's what you meant by view 
mode. 


No. 4 -- It would be so nice to have a tutorial-type manual or 
something along the lines of a "cookbook" like we have access to with 
some other programs.  I thought the idea of another list where folks 
would describe uses was great but given the resounding lack of 
response I guess you were right that everyone is too busy.  On some 
boards there is a lot of talk like that and it is always helpful.  
SHEandPDA has had a good bit of talk about using Shadow and I've 
gotten some good ideas.  

Patricia

From: verxion@p...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 2:07pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

Hey guys, just a thought, have either of you looked at quickbits?  I am NOT advocating that you go out and buy the thing, I am just trying to understand if the problem is CPU or if it is the built in draw routines of your palms.  My own palm seems to do both of the things you mention lightening quick. . .

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> Jeff:
> 
> Please add my support to item #2 & #3 from Greg.  Optimization of the 
> file list and Link Manager would be great!
> 
> Norman
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., glacefield@v... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 2. Faster redraw of the file list window from any operation that 
> > returns to it, e.g. renaming a list, closing a list, selecting a 
> new 
> > file category.  This operation is VERY slow on my IIIc, regardless 
> of 
> > the number of files in the category I am returning to, whether it 
> is 
> > 1 or 30.  I find myself spending probably 15-20% of my time in 
> Shadow 
> > waiting for the redraw and, as a workaround, have started to resort 
> > to using file links to avoid the window as much as possible and 
> jump 
> > among lists more quickly.
> > 
> > 3. Close to #2 is faster invocation of the Link Manager (as slow as 
> > #2, but more tolerable because I only have to do it once for link 
> > setup).
> > 
> > 4. Custom filtering, especially the ability to have more than one 
> > criterion at a time.
> > 
> > Thanks for the poll,
> > 
> > Greg

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Re: New Shadow user-question

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:

> When useful comments are made group members will suggest the item be 
> added to the files section.  I think the key would be making it clear 
> how to post items and who has permission to post.  

	The group settings are ... odd. I know why I chose the settings I
did.

	For File settings.. it can be only a few options. Right now it is
members can download files. The next relaxed setting is members can
upload, modify, download files. Does that imply folks can remove the files
I've uploaded, and replace them with their own files of the same
name? This is not acceptible, since it could be a way to spread bad files
by malicious folks..

	The polls are currently set so anyone can start them..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:05pm
Subject: Re: New Shadow user-question

I'm all for doing something, but how its delivered and maintained
are the questions. ie: I could include a cookbook with the normal
documentation in didstributions.. like the FAQ, but with user
content. This could be work, and since everyone who uses Sahdow got it
from the 'net, perhaps the 'net is the best way to distribute it.. via my
website.

	So, do I start a webpage where people can post text to the
bookbook, perhaps by category?

	If so, how is this different from a mailing list or yahoogruop web
mailing list?

	If not much different, I could just open "shadow-cookbook", and
then people could join, search or post their cookbook ideas.. and it'd be
readable online, etc.

	Is this a good plan?

		jeff

On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> It's always a hassle to get people to take the time to do stuff like this, 
> but over a long period of time, I think enough could be accumulated to be 
> worthwhile. I've been pretty bogged down with deadlines, but I know of at 
> least one thread in the Yahoo group where people discussed just this kind 
> of thing. How about if I collect those, clean 'em up, and put 'em into 
> files for people to read? Of course, I'd make sure the original posters 
> gave me permission to use their info and would use their names/usernames in 
> the credits.
> 
> That would be a starting place. Okeedokee?
> 
> oooieoo
> 
> ------------
> 
> At 08:59 AM 06/18/2001, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:
> >
> > > I wonder if you could open up the FILES area in the ShadowPlan Yahoos
> > > group, with a folder in there, for just this kind of thing. I think it
> > > would be neato to have people upload "tutorials," ideas, and sample
> > > outlines for using the program.
> >
> >         But *would* people? I'll do it if I can have a few people ready to
> >upload right away, so that there is content there to look at :)
> >
> >                 jeff
> >
> > >
> > > o.
> > >
> > > ---------
> > >
> > > At 05:11 AM 06/18/2001, you wrote:
> > > >On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 janimoe@a... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I just dl'd the Shadow demo because I have heard so many
> > > > recommendations for
> > > > > it on other lists.  I've gone through the tutorial and manual, but 
> > really
> > > > > need some specific suggestions on how to use it.  I don't know exactly
> > > > how to
> > > > > set it up for best use of it's features.  Are there any websites where
> > > > users
> > > > > detail how they are using it that I could look at?
> > > >
> > > >         You could browse back in the archives, though it might be some
> > > >work to climb through such a volume of postings :)
> > > >
> > > >         If people would post, I could create a mailing list for this sort
> > > >of thing (uses, good ideas, patterns, recipes for success, etc) and then
> > > >folks could add their experiences.. but I'm not sure that'd get used much,
> > > >since most people are too busy already ;)
> > > >
> > > >                 jeff
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> > > >circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > > >sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> > > >-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > >shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >--
> >"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> >circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> >sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> >-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> file category.  This operation is VERY slow on my IIIc, regardless of 
> the number of files in the category I am returning to, whether it is 
> 1 or 30.  I find myself spending probably 15-20% of my time in Shadow 
> waiting for the redraw and, as a workaround, have started to resort 
> to using file links to avoid the window as much as possible and jump 
> among lists more quickly.

	You must have a lot of files :) Each time that screen must be
redrawn, Shadow must rebuild its list of files, and if you have 50 to 100
items, its a bit slow, since Shadow has to pick up the file size and
various stats. Mostly Palm OS just isn't speedy for handling
files. (ie: My launcher takes a good 20s to draw a category :(

> 3. Close to #2 is faster invocation of the Link Manager (as slow as 
> #2, but more tolerable because I only have to do it once for link 
> setup).

	You tap "Link Manager" and it takes awhile to popup?

> 4. Custom filtering, especially the ability to have more than one 
> criterion at a time.

	I'm debating how to go about this, but I'm thinking two criterion
to start with is my plan, and unsaved filters. (ie: You can define a
filter for say "priority less-than 3, and, unchecked", and see that
filtered view. But not save that filter yet, so if you exit and come back,
it'd be lost). I may add more criterion after, and saving of the filter
details.. but to start with, maybe just instant custom filter..

			jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> Please add my support to item #2 & #3 from Greg.  Optimization of the 
> file list and Link Manager would be great!

	Well, okay, hows this..

	What information do you really want to see on the file selection
screen? ie: Right now you get filename, an icon of file type, file size in
bytes, and number checked/total if it has checkboxes set in list default
view. Is list size irrelevant to most people? What do you want on this
screen instead?

		jeff

> 
> Norman
> 
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., glacefield@v... wrote:
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 2. Faster redraw of the file list window from any operation that 
> > returns to it, e.g. renaming a list, closing a list, selecting a 
> new 
> > file category.  This operation is VERY slow on my IIIc, regardless 
> of 
> > the number of files in the category I am returning to, whether it 
> is 
> > 1 or 30.  I find myself spending probably 15-20% of my time in 
> Shadow 
> > waiting for the redraw and, as a workaround, have started to resort 
> > to using file links to avoid the window as much as possible and 
> jump 
> > among lists more quickly.
> > 
> > 3. Close to #2 is faster invocation of the Link Manager (as slow as 
> > #2, but more tolerable because I only have to do it once for link 
> > setup).
> > 
> > 4. Custom filtering, especially the ability to have more than one 
> > criterion at a time.
> > 
> > Thanks for the poll,
> > 
> > Greg
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Raul Bianchi Lastra  <rbianchi@i...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:10pm
Subject: New desired feature

Dear Jeff:

For the next release, It is possible that the linked address and 
memos in a list be exported to memos and/or DOCs?

Sorry if this out of your list of new top features, but will be a 
very useful feature for me.

Best Regards,
Raul

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:22pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 hisimage8@y... wrote:

> My top wish would be the ability to chose a default color for a 
> list.  This would not only be nice for those of us who aren't using 
> the default black but it would also help us with the highlight 
> problem, which I undertand (from CESD on the DtBk4 boards) is almost 
> impossible to fix.  

	Yep ;) Its possible, but is much work.

> No. 2 would be the list popup.  I switch between lists quite a bit 
> and it would be nice for it to be quicker and easier.  

	On my list..

	Just not sure where to UI this. Under [V]iew perhaps, or add
another popmenu.. [H] for history?

> No. 3 would be the behavior of the list moving up to the top of the 
> page automatically when you expand an item so that as many of the 
> children show as possible.  Perhaps that's what you meant by view 
> mode. 

	This is different, but also on my list. I need some time to get on
top of these ideas. So many good ideas, so little time :(

> No. 4 -- It would be so nice to have a tutorial-type manual or 
> something along the lines of a "cookbook" like we have access to with 
> some other programs.  I thought the idea of another list where folks 
> would describe uses was great but given the resounding lack of 
> response I guess you were right that everyone is too busy.  On some 
> boards there is a lot of talk like that and it is always helpful.  
> SHEandPDA has had a good bit of talk about using Shadow and I've 
> gotten some good ideas.  

	I'd really like to write a user guide, with objectives and howtos,
but realistically I don't think I'll have the time. The compromise is as
we've discussed.. allowing you guys to make suggestions and uploads.. If
we can talk out a way to do this, then maybe over time a small library of
suggestions will build up. We have had some very godo dialog in the past,
but searching through a 1000 or 2000 posted messages is a lot of work :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 3:31pm
Subject: Re: New desired feature

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Raul Bianchi Lastra wrote:

> For the next release, It is possible that the linked address and 
> memos in a list be exported to memos and/or DOCs?

	Maybe. I'll put it on my list. It certainly woudl be handy :)

> Sorry if this out of your list of new top features, but will be a 
> very useful feature for me.

	This is another not-so-difficult-to-add feature, but it'd take
some time to test and ensure compatability, and it coudl really slow down
an export. Certainly, importing back woudl have to be smart enough to
ignore this information (troublesom to import this sor tof stuff and
establish links). So maybe I'd have to add an export  progress bar..

	So suddenly it becomes real work :P

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 4:16pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

Jeff:

For me, file size is irrelevant.  Maybe, this should be seen in the 
Desktop version or maybe this can be a option on the Palm for those 
who think file size is relevant.  The filename and the checked/total 
is sufficient for my needs.

Norman



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > Please add my support to item #2 & #3 from Greg.  Optimization of 
the 
> > file list and Link Manager would be great!
> 
> 	Well, okay, hows this..
> 
> 	What information do you really want to see on the file 
selection
> screen? ie: Right now you get filename, an icon of file type, file 
size in
> bytes, and number checked/total if it has checkboxes set in list 
default
> view. Is list size irrelevant to most people? What do you want on 
this
> screen instead?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> >

From: glacefield@v...
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 8:54pm
Subject: Re: So .. top desired features?

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:
>> This operation is VERY slow on my IIIc, regardless of 
>> the number of files in the category I am returning to, whether it
>> is 1 or 30.  I find myself spending probably 15-20% of my time in
>> Shadow waiting for the redraw ...
> 
> 	You must have a lot of files :)

I have 107 of them; a tribute to you, since much of my life (and I'm 
working on more) is in Shadow. :)

> Each time that screen must be redrawn, Shadow must rebuild its list
> of files, and if you have 50 to 100 items, its a bit slow, since
> Shadow has to pick up the file size and various stats. Mostly Palm
> OS just isn't speedy for handling files...
> 
>> 3. Close to #2 is faster invocation of the Link Manager ...
> 
> 	You tap "Link Manager" and it takes awhile to popup?

Yes, either tapping "Link Manager" from the link arrow, or tapping the
"Link" button in the item details dialog. I imagine that the real
culprit is retrieving filenames via the OS, since that is the common
element to both the Link Manager and the file list displays. If you 
determine this to be the case and there is little workaround, it 
might be possible to improve, at a minimum, the Link Manager by only 
performing the file lookup if the File Link drop-down is chosen 
(could even put up something like "Retrieving file list...").  This 
would circumvent the delay for the many times when one wishes to link 
to something other than a file.

In a later post, you polled your users for meaningful statistics on 
the file list display. I would echo the sentiments of Norman, with a 
twist: More useful to me would be simply the number of unchecked 
items that are not notes, i.e. anything that is of a task/to-do 
nature (regardless of whether the checkbox is *showing*). I would 
also right-justify it, i.e. put it where the file size is now. This 
by itself, even without a total number of list items, would indicate 
at a glance if anything is undone in the list; for me, it's a lot 
easier to look at a single column of numbers than to try and compare 
two figures that are in varying horizontal positions on the screen.

But that's just me. :)

Would it be possible to default to simply listing file names only, 
then allow users to turn on additional information in two stages?  
Say, Unchecked items like I described above (or maybe items per the 
current list filter?), and Details, which would display the data 
Shadow does now (maybe in a tabular format, with spaces for 
separators rather than parentheses). Or default to the existing 
content, and offer the other two as options. If looking inside the 
lists for this data slows things down for users with a lot of files, 
they could simply elect to display no details.

> > 4. Custom filtering, especially the ability to have more than one 
> > criterion at a time.
>
> I'm debating how to go about this, but I'm thinking two criterion
> to start with is my plan, and unsaved filters. (ie: You can define a
> filter for say "priority less-than 3, and, unchecked", and see that
> filtered view. But not save that filter yet, so if you exit and
> come back, it'd be lost). I may add more criterion after, and
> saving of the filter details.. but to start with, maybe just
> instant custom filter..

That sounds like a good start. After all, you're a one-man show! (But 
I'm glad I have front row seats! :)

Greg

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 22, 2001 9:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 glacefield@v... wrote:

> I have 107 of them; a tribute to you, since much of my life (and I'm 
> working on more) is in Shadow. :)

	I got the urge, so I just built in a "recent files" feature. It
just went to alpha testers, so should show up in the next beta or
release. (you can pop up a list of the last 10 unique files visited from
inside list view, or from the file selection screen).

> might be possible to improve, at a minimum, the Link Manager by only 
> performing the file lookup if the File Link drop-down is chosen 
> (could even put up something like "Retrieving file list...").  This 
> would circumvent the delay for the many times when one wishes to link 
> to something other than a file.

	Maybe. The link manager looks up what is needed to display "right
now". It doesn't cache-ahead much. No memory for that on palms ;)

> nature (regardless of whether the checkbox is *showing*). I would 
> also right-justify it, i.e. put it where the file size is now. This 
> by itself, even without a total number of list items, would indicate 
> at a glance if anything is undone in the list; for me, it's a lot 
> easier to look at a single column of numbers than to try and compare 
> two figures that are in varying horizontal positions on the screen.

	Hmm. OKay, remind me in awhile.. I'm goign to be fiddling with
things to better handle the mixed-item-view you can now have, so I can
take a look into this after that.

> Shadow does now (maybe in a tabular format, with spaces for 
> separators rather than parentheses). Or default to the existing 
> content, and offer the other two as options. If looking inside the 
> lists for this data slows things down for users with a lot of files, 
> they could simply elect to display no details.

	The stats are cached (in the file ShadCache if you're curious what
it was for), so lookups are pretty fast. You're thinking like in the
Windows explorer, I assume, where it shows in simple icon view, or tap on
the other buttons to see different detials listed? Could do something. The
whole file selection screen is itchign for a fancy schmancy rewrite ;)

> That sounds like a good start. After all, you're a one-man show! (But 
> I'm glad I have front row seats! :)

	I try and keep everyone in a front-row seat. Thats what the
internet is for, no? :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Leslie  <jomoco5@y...>
Date: Sat Jun 23, 2001 1:43am
Subject: OT--FYI EVERYBODY

Somebody's finally done it!  (GO JOE!) They've started a Getting 
Things Done group!  Woo Hoo . . . most of us use (and love) Shadow.  
If you're familiar with the book, use the principles, please come 
over and let us know how you have it set up with Shadow!  We're all 
ears!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GtD_Palm


Leslie

From: verxion@p...
Date: Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:13am
Subject: Quick item Jeff

I had mentioned this to you before, just wanted to mention it again:

When people go to the link manager, it is counter-intuitive to not have a "Cancel" button in my opinion.  If I go and establish a link and then realize it is the wrong one, I have to delete it.  I can't just do a Cancel.  Additionally, if I think I want to add a link but really don't want to in the end, I don't want to have to click on "Ok" - it FEELS like there should be a "Cancel" button there.  I dunno, it just bugs me every single time I go in there cuz on pretty much every other app I have, there would be a "Cancel" button there.  I guess I feel nekkid without it.  :)

-Joe Chott

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jun 24, 2001 2:04am
Subject: Re: Quick item Jeff

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> just do a Cancel.  Additionally, if I think I want to add a link but
> really don't want to in the end, I don't want to have to click on "Ok"
> - it FEELS like there should be a "Cancel" button there.  I dunno, it
> just bugs me every single time I go in there cuz on pretty much every
> other app I have, there would be a "Cancel" button there.  I guess I
> feel nekkid without it.  :)

	hehe. I may add this later, but for now it probably will stay like
this .. the reason it is not there is because its a pain to do so.. a lot
of information copying around. Didn't want to slow down the link manager
anymore than it is. Also, for links like todo and datebook, cancelling can
be painful, since you coudl create a couple of links, and then sever them,
or export them.. and then what happens when you hit cancel? Due to
ambiguity.. I thought I'd take the easy route out just that once. (and of
course, you find it ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Sun Jun 24, 2001 5:58am
Subject: Re: Re: So .. top desired features?

Jeff asked:
 >>What information do you really want to see on the file selection screen? 
ie: Right now you get filename, an icon of file type, file size in bytes, 
and number checked/total if it has checkboxes set in list default view. Is 
list size irrelevant to most people? What do you want on this screen instead?<<

If I had my druthers, I'druther only have the outline names. The other 
stuff just gets in the way of my brain when looking at it. It'd also be 
cool to be able to manually sort the outlines by dragging them into the 
pr