From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jun 3, 2001 8:45pm
Subject: Re: Re: Feature Request/Thoughts

On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> button, a simple dialog requiring the user to type a title for 
> his/her memo.  Click 'Ok'.  Now Shadow, create a memo item in the 
> Memo database with the title given in the dialog and assigns a link 
> to that memo database record. 
> 
> I am not a Palm developer, but if this is a record link, why would we 
> have to worry about changes from the desktop?  Shadow will just 
> display record# xxxx.

	If its a pure single-record export, sure, no problem. Buuut I know
that if you create a memo from a shadow item, the next thing you'll want
is for yourself to be able to edit that memo from somewher (be it desktop,
Wordsmith, or the built in memo tool). And you'll want those changes
imported back into Shadow. Thats hard.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jun 3, 2001 8:45pm
Subject: Re: Scrolling problem with PPK

On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> screens.  If I use the arrow keys to scroll, I cannot see the last 
> item completely.  Also, there are times when it just wraps back to 
> the beginning of the list.  This can be annoying if you're examining 
> the last few items in the outline.  The workaround is to use two 
> fingers and hit 'FN-Scroll', then you can see the end of the list.  

	I don't have a keyboard anymore myself (everytime I upgrade units,
I have to get a new keyboard. So I stopped buying them :( ..

	What version of Shadow are you using?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Sun Jun 3, 2001 10:31pm
Subject: Re: Scrolling problem with PPK

Jeff:

I'm using 1.56 of Shadow.

Norman



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > screens.  If I use the arrow keys to scroll, I cannot see the 
last 
> > item completely.  Also, there are times when it just wraps back 
to 
> > the beginning of the list.  This can be annoying if you're 
examining 
> > the last few items in the outline.  The workaround is to use two 
> > fingers and hit 'FN-Scroll', then you can see the end of the 
list.  
> 
> 	I don't have a keyboard anymore myself (everytime I upgrade 
units,
> I have to get a new keyboard. So I stopped buying them :( ..
> 
> 	What version of Shadow are you using?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: sjpanther01@h...
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2001 0:18am
Subject: 'Archive' Option-What is it?

I noticed when I delete a item there is a option to 'Archive'.  What 
is the functionality of this option?

Norman

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2001 0:33am
Subject: Re: 'Archive' Option-What is it?

On Mon, 4 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:

> I noticed when I delete a item there is a option to 'Archive'.  What 
> is the functionality of this option?

	There is always a Shadow file called _ARCHIVE_, in the Unfiled
category. Whenever you delete a series of items, and hit Archive, they get
copied to the top of this file. If you delete a single item, it'll go
right to the top. If you delete an item with a subtree, then they will
show up at the top.. sometimes in odd order, depending on which operation
you used ot get them there. Essentially, its a quick way to copy deletions
to another file .. just in case.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Paul  <harkerp@r...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:31pm
Subject: Ultra-wish

I often have related lists of things to do. 

For example, SHOPPING: buy A, return B, buy C, D. 
Or VACATION: buy A, pack b, call c, reserve d...etc

I would LOVE to have integration between apps like Shadow/Datebk4 
such that when a todo (or float or appt) within Datebk4 is displayed, 
it is linked to a list within shadowplan. The todo would be marked 
complete once all the subtasks within shadowplan are done.

I realize this would take coordination between the two applications 
and authors.... but I would sure LOVE to see it.

Paul

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:37pm
Subject: Re: Ultra-wish

On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Paul wrote:

> I would LOVE to have integration between apps like Shadow/Datebk4 
> such that when a todo (or float or appt) within Datebk4 is displayed, 
> it is linked to a list within shadowplan. The todo would be marked 
> complete once all the subtasks within shadowplan are done.
> 
> I realize this would take coordination between the two applications 
> and authors.... but I would sure LOVE to see it.

	If I take your meaning, than this is how it works
already; ie: Consider this list:

Vacation
	Pack A
	Pack B
	Buy C

	If you link "Vacation" to datebook (be it built in Datebook, or
DateBk4, or whatever), then "Vacation" will show up in those apps. Once
Pack A, Pack B, Buy C are all checked off, Vacation will also become
checked off, and the linked item in the datebook databasses will also
become checked. 

	You could, if you wanted, link Pack A, Pack B, Buy C to the
datebook, and check them off there, and when they are all checked,
Vacation should be checked. There was a bug (may still be there? I'd have
to check my brug listing) where it wouldnt' check Vacation if the last
item checked was checked in a outside application. IF thats still the
case, then its a bug, and it *should* work as you expect, and it will soon
:)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Paul  <harkerp@r...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:53pm
Subject: Re: Ultra-wish

Jeff.. 

1) Your incredibly fast response has earned an immediate registration.

2) My wish is indeed as below. However, (unless I'm not following 
correctly) what I also want is a link in the opposite direction. That 
is, the ability to, within Datebk4 (or todo?), be able to link/jump 
to a ShadowPlan entry (i.e. Vacation).

So I am checking my day in Datebk4, and I see Vacation is not 
completed. I follow a link to ShadowPlan where I see what sub-tasks 
are left. 

I understand that this is probably something that would be mainly or 
solely in CESD's arena, but was thinking about it while here! :-) And 
I thought it would be good to bounce it off the wall of other 
ShadowPlan users.

Paul


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Paul wrote:
> 
> > I would LOVE to have integration between apps like Shadow/Datebk4 
> > such that when a todo (or float or appt) within Datebk4 is 
displayed, 
> > it is linked to a list within shadowplan. The todo would be 
marked 
> > complete once all the subtasks within shadowplan are done.
> > 
> > I realize this would take coordination between the two 
applications 
> > and authors.... but I would sure LOVE to see it.
> 
> 	If I take your meaning, than this is how it works
> already; ie: Consider this list:
> 
> Vacation
> 	Pack A
> 	Pack B
> 	Buy C
> 
> 	If you link "Vacation" to datebook (be it built in Datebook, 
or
> DateBk4, or whatever), then "Vacation" will show up in those apps. 
Once
> Pack A, Pack B, Buy C are all checked off, Vacation will also become
> checked off, and the linked item in the datebook databasses will 
also
> become checked. 
> 
> 	You could, if you wanted, link Pack A, Pack B, Buy C to the
> datebook, and check them off there, and when they are all checked,
> Vacation should be checked. There was a bug (may still be there? 
I'd have
> to check my brug listing) where it wouldnt' check Vacation if the 
last
> item checked was checked in a outside application. IF thats still 
the
> case, then its a bug, and it *should* work as you expect, and it 
will soon
> :)
> 
> 		jeff
>

From: Paul  <harkerp@r...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:54pm
Subject: Re: Ultra-wish

Jeff.. 

1) Your incredibly fast response has earned an immediate registration.

2) My wish is indeed as below. However, (unless I'm not following 
correctly) what I also want is a link in the opposite direction. That 
is, the ability to, within Datebk4 (or todo?), be able to link/jump 
to a ShadowPlan entry (i.e. Vacation).

So I am checking my day in Datebk4, and I see Vacation is not 
completed. I follow a link to ShadowPlan where I see what sub-tasks 
are left. 

I understand that this is probably something that would be mainly or 
solely in CESD's arena, but was thinking about it while here! :-) And 
I thought it would be good to bounce it off the wall of other 
ShadowPlan users.

Paul


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Paul wrote:
> 
> > I would LOVE to have integration between apps like Shadow/Datebk4 
> > such that when a todo (or float or appt) within Datebk4 is 
displayed, 
> > it is linked to a list within shadowplan. The todo would be 
marked 
> > complete once all the subtasks within shadowplan are done.
> > 
> > I realize this would take coordination between the two 
applications 
> > and authors.... but I would sure LOVE to see it.
> 
> 	If I take your meaning, than this is how it works
> already; ie: Consider this list:
> 
> Vacation
> 	Pack A
> 	Pack B
> 	Buy C
> 
> 	If you link "Vacation" to datebook (be it built in Datebook, 
or
> DateBk4, or whatever), then "Vacation" will show up in those apps. 
Once
> Pack A, Pack B, Buy C are all checked off, Vacation will also become
> checked off, and the linked item in the datebook databasses will 
also
> become checked. 
> 
> 	You could, if you wanted, link Pack A, Pack B, Buy C to the
> datebook, and check them off there, and when they are all checked,
> Vacation should be checked. There was a bug (may still be there? 
I'd have
> to check my brug listing) where it wouldnt' check Vacation if the 
last
> item checked was checked in a outside application. IF thats still 
the
> case, then its a bug, and it *should* work as you expect, and it 
will soon
> :)
> 
> 		jeff
>

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 4:02pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ultra-wish

On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Paul wrote:

> 1) Your incredibly fast response has earned an immediate registration.

	Someone has to put big companies to shame ;)

> 2) My wish is indeed as below. However, (unless I'm not following 
> correctly) what I also want is a link in the opposite direction. That 
> is, the ability to, within Datebk4 (or todo?), be able to link/jump 
> to a ShadowPlan entry (i.e. Vacation).

	The ability for other applications to load Shadow and tell it to
focus on a particular record is already present (ie: See the global Find
functionality). To make it more seamless would require some work between
CESD and myself, though he could do somethign like my linking on his
own. You should perhaps take a peek into DateBk4's forums and see if it
can, or has plans, to do linking to other applications. If it hasd
LinkMaster support, maybe it can do it already and need only add that..

		tired-jeff (a long morning  so far :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Manfred Ell  <manfred.ell@w...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 3:34pm
Subject: Re: Ultra-wish

On 05-06-2001 at 15:31:10 GMT -0000 (which was 16:31 where I live)
Paul wrote regarding the subject of " Ultra-wish"
Using: eGroups Message Poster

Hello Paul,

> I would LOVE to have integration between apps like Shadow/Datebk4 
> such that when a todo (or float or appt) within Datebk4 is displayed, 
> it is linked to a list within shadowplan. The todo would be marked 
> complete once all the subtasks within shadowplan are done.

> I realize this would take coordination between the two applications 
> and authors.... but I would sure LOVE to see it.


You wouldn't be the only one!

Regards

-- 
Manfred
___________________________________________________________________________
[ TheBat 1.53 RC/1 (FE1905D5), Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 ]

From: Bob & Kelly Hughes  <bhughes@d...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2001 4:51pm
Subject: RE: Linking DateBk4 to Shadow {Was Re: Ultra-wish}

Paul (& Manfred)

On Tuesday, June 5, 2001 Paul wrote:

<<what I also want is a link in the opposite direction. That
<< is, the ability to, within Datebk4 (or todo?), be able to link/jump
<<to a ShadowPlan entry (i.e. Vacation).

There *is* a way to do this using Linker Hack.  I use this system myself.

Check it out at http://www.digitalglyph.com/linker.html

Here is an excerpt from this web page
----------------------------------
"Linker is a "hack" or "extension" that lets you create links between
different
bits of data, or "records" on your Palm Pilot or Palm device. Since it's a
system
 extension, it works in all four of the basic built-in programs, Datebook,
Address, ToDo,
and MemoPad. (There are many hundreds of third party applications available
for the Palm;
some may work with Linker, too, [SHADOW WORKS!! - BOB'S COMMENT] although
they have not been tested, yet.)

Each link has a special word or words associated with it. The word(s) is/are
marked
by a special character, which you can define. By default, the special
character is a
degree symbol (see the picture, below). Once you have set up your link, just
tap on
the marked text to automatically jump to the linked record. If you also have
made a
"backlink", a simple (configurable) stroke of the stylus will take you back
to the original link tag.
----------------------------------

If you have any questions, let me know.

Bob Hughes

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul [mailto:harkerp@r...]
Sent: June 5, 2001 8:55 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Re: Ultra-wish

Jeff..

1) Your incredibly fast response has earned an immediate registration.

2) My wish is indeed as below. However, (unless I'm not following
correctly) what I also want is a link in the opposite direction. That
is, the ability to, within Datebk4 (or todo?), be able to link/jump
to a ShadowPlan entry (i.e. Vacation).

So I am checking my day in Datebk4, and I see Vacation is not
completed. I follow a link to ShadowPlan where I see what sub-tasks
are left.

I understand that this is probably something that would be mainly or
solely in CESD's arena, but was thinking about it while here! :-) And
I thought it would be good to bounce it off the wall of other
ShadowPlan users.

Paul


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Paul wrote:
>
> > I would LOVE to have integration between apps like Shadow/Datebk4
> > such that when a todo (or float or appt) within Datebk4 is
displayed,
> > it is linked to a list within shadowplan. The todo would be
marked
> > complete once all the subtasks within shadowplan are done.
> >
> > I realize this would take coordination between the two
applications
> > and authors.... but I would sure LOVE to see it.
>
>       If I take your meaning, than this is how it works
> already; ie: Consider this list:
>
> Vacation
>       Pack A
>       Pack B
>       Buy C
>
>       If you link "Vacation" to datebook (be it built in Datebook,
or
> DateBk4, or whatever), then "Vacation" will show up in those apps.
Once
> Pack A, Pack B, Buy C are all checked off, Vacation will also become
> checked off, and the linked item in the datebook databasses will
also
> become checked.
>
>       You could, if you wanted, link Pack A, Pack B, Buy C to the
> datebook, and check them off there, and when they are all checked,
> Vacation should be checked. There was a bug (may still be there?
I'd have
> to check my brug listing) where it wouldnt' check Vacation if the
last
> item checked was checked in a outside application. IF thats still
the
> case, then its a bug, and it *should* work as you expect, and it
will soon
> :)
>
>             jeff
>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 11:49am
Subject: Check this link Jeff, just saw it today

I may be wrong, but this looks like it could help you do testing (and 
for FREE)!

http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?
sid=37347520010510224426&prodID=8790

See ya,

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> 
> > screens.  If I use the arrow keys to scroll, I cannot see the 
last 
> > item completely.  Also, there are times when it just wraps back 
to 
> > the beginning of the list.  This can be annoying if you're 
examining 
> > the last few items in the outline.  The workaround is to use two 
> > fingers and hit 'FN-Scroll', then you can see the end of the 
list.  
> 
> 	I don't have a keyboard anymore myself (everytime I upgrade 
units,
> I have to get a new keyboard. So I stopped buying them :( ..
> 
> 	What version of Shadow are you using?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 0:13pm
Subject: Re: Check this link Jeff, just saw it today

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> I may be wrong, but this looks like it could help you do testing (and 
> for FREE)!

	I'll take a look. At first it sounds like you need to build
something, but apparently you do not. Still, its got its own drivers which
make a lot of it not useful for testing against existing popular keyboard
drivers.. the drivers are the annoying thing. One of these days I'm going
to see a Clie, and if I don't buy it, I'll buy a keyboard for my visor..

		jeff

> 
> http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?
> sid=37347520010510224426&prodID=8790
> 
> See ya,
> 
> -Joe Chott
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Jun 2001 sjpanther01@h... wrote:
> > 
> > > screens.  If I use the arrow keys to scroll, I cannot see the 
> last 
> > > item completely.  Also, there are times when it just wraps back 
> to 
> > > the beginning of the list.  This can be annoying if you're 
> examining 
> > > the last few items in the outline.  The workaround is to use two 
> > > fingers and hit 'FN-Scroll', then you can see the end of the 
> list.  
> > 
> > 	I don't have a keyboard anymore myself (everytime I upgrade 
> units,
> > I have to get a new keyboard. So I stopped buying them :( ..
> > 
> > 	What version of Shadow are you using?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Malcolm Firth  <mnf1000@l...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 0:18pm
Subject: Removing the conduit

Hi,

As the shadow desktop is not yet operational, for me there is no need to
keep the shadow conduit that I installed in the Windows enhanced edition. As
there is no option to disable the backups in the conduit (and my hotsync
spends a lot of time doing this), how is it possible to uninstall this
conduit. Any help appreciated!
And can't wait for the full desktop edition!!!
Malcolm

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 0:24pm
Subject: Re: Removing the conduit

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Malcolm Firth wrote:

> keep the shadow conduit that I installed in the Windows enhanced edition. As
> there is no option to disable the backups in the conduit (and my hotsync
> spends a lot of time doing this), how is it possible to uninstall this
> conduit. Any help appreciated!
> And can't wait for the full desktop edition!!!

	The setup utility may have created an uninstaller for you, but a
bug in the setup tool sometimes doesn't create it (argh! I'm bugging the
vendor to fix it though!)  You can of course delete the Shadow.dll (or
ShadowPlan.dll, I forget), to effect essentially the same thing. Just find
your hotsync.exe, and remove the .dll from the same directory (only one
file).

	I do have a crappy commandline tool that was never meant to be
used by anyone but alpha testers, that can uninstall, but its ugly.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 3:21pm
Subject: OPINION.. PLEASE REPLY!

Do we need the "Generic Edition" release of Shadow?

	Currently, there are conceptually 3 downloads:

Shadow Plan Generic Edition
Shadow Plan Windows Enhanced Edition
Shadow Plan Mac Enhanced Edition (not yet existing)

	The purpose of the Generic edition is for Unix, Beos, Amiga, and
other weenies (hey, I'm a unix guy ;), or for those who just don't want to
download a large windows/mac distribution when all they want is the .prc
(for update of windows, or because they don't care asbout the enhanced
stuff, for instance).

	For those who've downloaded the Generic Edition. Do you recall
care?

	Or is downloading the Windows Enhanced edition good enough? It
also includes the plain .prc, and the plain HTML manual, as well as
bundling it all into the installer if you're actually running windows.

	(Looking at reducing the number of packages I have to build each
release ;)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: FunFactor@g...
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 3:32pm
Subject: Re: Check this link Jeff, just saw it today

Hi together!

Just before I start posting, complaining, etc. ;) I'd like to thank 
Jeff for the good work he does and for the user-friendly attitude
he's got.

I already tried out EasyType and it works fine (although I had to 
adjust the keyboard layout a little bit for the notebook I use but 
that was easy).

It's a nice possibility to get text into your handheld (no matter of 
the app) and I think it is usefull until the desktop-app completely 
works. It is a hack and some config progs around. So you need 
hackmaster or something simular and you can use your pc keyboard to 
write.

Best regards,

 Stefan


P.S. Warning: As a fan of shadow I certainly gonna post here
regularly 
;-)

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 4:01pm
Subject: Re: OPINION.. PLEASE REPLY!

The "Windows Release" already includes the .prc file, and it is 
a .zip, so anyone can get shadow from there.  You probably just need 
to clarify that it works for people other than windows users provided 
that they handle how they get the .prc onto their palm themselves.

1MB isn't too terribly big, and the documentation is portable (HTML 
after all), so the only thing really NOT needed on non-windows 
platforms is the .EXE, which is like 700KB.

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Do we need the "Generic Edition" release of Shadow?
> 
> 	Currently, there are conceptually 3 downloads:
> 
> Shadow Plan Generic Edition
> Shadow Plan Windows Enhanced Edition
> Shadow Plan Mac Enhanced Edition (not yet existing)
> 
> 	The purpose of the Generic edition is for Unix, Beos, Amiga, 
and
> other weenies (hey, I'm a unix guy ;), or for those who just don't 
want to
> download a large windows/mac distribution when all they want is 
the .prc
> (for update of windows, or because they don't care asbout the 
enhanced
> stuff, for instance).
> 
> 	For those who've downloaded the Generic Edition. Do you recall
> care?
> 
> 	Or is downloading the Windows Enhanced edition good enough? It
> also includes the plain .prc, and the plain HTML manual, as well as
> bundling it all into the installer if you're actually running 
windows.
> 
> 	(Looking at reducing the number of packages I have to build 
each
> release ;)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Josh Morris  <joshsm@y...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 4:17pm
Subject: Re: OPINION.. PLEASE REPLY!

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Do we need the "Generic Edition" release of Shadow?
> 
> 	Currently, there are conceptually 3 downloads:
> 
> Shadow Plan Generic Edition
> Shadow Plan Windows Enhanced Edition
> Shadow Plan Mac Enhanced Edition (not yet existing)
> 
> 	The purpose of the Generic edition is for Unix, Beos, Amiga, 
and
> other weenies (hey, I'm a unix guy ;), or for those who just don't 
want to
> download a large windows/mac distribution when all they want is 
the .prc
> (for update of windows, or because they don't care asbout the 
enhanced
> stuff, for instance).
> 
> 	For those who've downloaded the Generic Edition. Do you recall
> care?
> 
> 	Or is downloading the Windows Enhanced edition good enough? It
> also includes the plain .prc, and the plain HTML manual, as well as
> bundling it all into the installer if you're actually running 
windows.
> 
> 	(Looking at reducing the number of packages I have to build 
each
> release ;)
> 
> 		jeff

Well, as soon as I have cable access, I probably won't mind so much. 
(I plan on using my Linux box as my main production/play machine 
soon, so the enhanced version, although cool, will have less use to 
me.) Do you always update both parts of the equation (the prc and the 
desktop component)? Maybe make the Windows Enhanced version a two 
parter (one part prc, second part desktop component) if one is 
updated more frequently than the other. Just a thought.

Thanks,
Josh

From: Becca  <beccaE@s...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 4:18pm
Subject: Re: OPINION.. PLEASE REPLY!

Well, Jeff, if you have a Mac version then I won't need a generic. 
Until that is available I need the generic :).

Becca ----> anxiously awaiting the Mac version :)

From: Becca  <beccaE@s...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 4:21pm
Subject: Re: OPINION.. PLEASE REPLY!

oops, should have read Joe's post first. Since the windows version is 
a zip and not an .exe for all of it, then I could certainly download 
that until the Mac version is available. I, of course, have a 
self-interest in you having more time to finish the Mac one :).

Becca

From: pradley@r...
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 9:36pm
Subject: New bug?

I installed 1.5.6 and now I find that when I "add" a link, to the 
addressbook for example, and then try to go to it, I get an error 
message and must do a soft reset. I had been using this function 
successfully till I put in the new version. I disabled all my hacks, 
but this changed nothing. Is this a new bug? Thanks for your help. 
Philippe Radley

From: pradley@r...
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2001 9:38pm
Subject: possible new bug in 1.5.6

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the error message I get 
is, "DataMgr.c, Line:8589, Index out of range". Philippe Radley

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 0:01am
Subject: Re: New bug?

On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 pradley@r... wrote:

> I installed 1.5.6 and now I find that when I "add" a link, to the 
> addressbook for example, and then try to go to it, I get an error 
> message and must do a soft reset. I had been using this function 
> successfully till I put in the new version. I disabled all my hacks, 
> but this changed nothing. Is this a new bug? Thanks for your help. 

	Seems strange; the new version has very few changes in it. Have
you changed the todo app using "Set Program", to somethign that doesn't
like receiving load commands?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Randy Dow  <rdow@w...>
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 5:42am
Subject: Bug in 1.56? Custom type problem w/ mixed types

Seems I've found a bug...

I have a list whose default type is Custom.

Custom is simply set to have the checkbox, no priority etc. shown.

I then change a root (top) level item (that has children) to a 
tasklist type.

The problem then manifests... on that item (now a "tasklist) I 
sometimes lose the expand/collapse arrow and sometimes the arrow is 
there but if I select it I get the pop-up window for setting the 
priority.  I can't expand/collapse the item anymore.

If I go back and change the Custom type to include the priority 
bubble then I have no problem with changing an item to tasklist.

It seems that in the first scenario the priority "-" mark and the 
indent arrow are maybe being drawn on top of each other.

If you need more details or a step-by-step to recreate the problem 
let me know.

Thanks,
Randy

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 0:01pm
Subject: Re: Bug in 1.56? Custom type problem w/ mixed types

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Randy Dow wrote:

> Seems I've found a bug...

	The mixed-types support is as yet unfinished. Its pretty solid,
but not 100% yet. Although I thuoght I'd fixed the possibilities of
widgets drawing on top of each other :/

	Stay tuned until that side of things gets a little more stable..

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pradley@r...
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 2:41pm
Subject: Re: New bug?

Solved. Thanks for your usual quick response. I had changed add-on 
addressbooks and forgot to make the change in "set program". PDR--- In 
shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 pradley@r... wrote:
> 
> > I installed 1.5.6 and now I find that when I "add" a link, to the 
> > addressbook for example, and then try to go to it, I get an error 
> > message and must do a soft reset. I had been using this function 
> > successfully till I put in the new version. I disabled all my 
hacks, 
> > but this changed nothing. Is this a new bug? Thanks for your help. 
> 
> 	Seems strange; the new version has very few changes in it. 
Have
> you changed the todo app using "Set Program", to somethign that 
doesn't
> like receiving load commands?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: jvbeck@u...
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 9:39pm
Subject: Re: Ultra Wish

"If you link "Vacation" to datebook (be it built in Datebook, or
DateBk4, or whatever), then "Vacation" will show up in those apps. 
Once Pack A, Pack B, Buy C are all checked off, Vacation will also 
become checked off, and the linked item in the datebook databases 
will also become checked."
 
From reading this topic, am I understanding that the datebook will 
show a completed item as well as the todo list when I complete a task 
in Shadow Plan? If so how is it done? Thanks... Jace

From: 1drummer@m...
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2001 10:08pm
Subject: RE: Datebook Links are Buggy

I'm still having trouble getting imported items from the datebook.  When I
tap new from... and choose datebook, I only see a couple of events listed.
I choose 'pick week' and go back to select the week I want.  There are no
dates listed at all for that week and there should be dozens.  What's going
on?
Gretchen

http://pugnut.tripod.com
********************************************
Just my 2˘ - take it, leave it, or make change.
********************************************




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Yahoo@l...
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 1:25am
Subject: Re: Printing with HTML

I am a newly registered Shadow User (2 days) and can't believe I how 
much I have already become dependent on ShadP.  I have put my ShadP 
list in HTML files for display on the web with no problem.  It went 
created great webpages to print without any "tinkering".

I am using Win2000 PC, Palm IIIc, Palm Desktop 4, HotSynch manager 
3.0.4 and this is the steps I did to put ShadP list into 
webpage/print:

While in Shadow at the front menu (list) 
Select Transfer, Export to Memo, Format is HTML, OK 
Now if you go to Memo on your Palm - you will see a entry that has 
HTML code <HTML><HEAD>~~~~ 
Do a HotSynch to PC 
Go to where your memo file is backed up (on my PC it is 
C:\Palm\myname\memopad\memopad.dat) 
Open up that file and scroll to the end.  Do a copy of everything 
starting with the <HTML> to the </HTML>  (include it) 
Paste this into a blank note document on your pc and save it 
something.html  
You can now double-click the something.html file you just created and 
it looks exactly like the shadow outline on your palm. 
You can print it, put it on a webserver, share it with anyone, etc.

This looks like a bunch of steps, but goes quickly and really takes 
less than a minute to do.

Jeff - Thanks for such a great program!! 

Linda



--- In shadow-discuss@y..., On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, The Weltons wrote:
> 
> > Using your hint, I found the sync'ed Shadow HTML files in the 
memo pad area
> > of Palm Desktop.  They must be buried in the memopad.dat file, 
because still
> > cannot find the file anywhere on my system.  Also using the 
standard Palm
> > Desktop, I was not able to export to an *.htm.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 2:26am
Subject: Re: Re: Ultra Wish

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 jvbeck@u... wrote:

> >From reading this topic, am I understanding that the datebook will 
> show a completed item as well as the todo list when I complete a task 
> in Shadow Plan? If so how is it done? Thanks... Jace

	I'm not sure what you mean.. what he meant was just that
completing an item in datebook will be carried into Shadow...

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 2:29am
Subject: RE: Datebook Links are Buggy

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 1drummer@m... wrote:

> I'm still having trouble getting imported items from the datebook.  When I
> tap new from... and choose datebook, I only see a couple of events listed.
> I choose 'pick week' and go back to select the week I want.  There are no
> dates listed at all for that week and there should be dozens.  What's going
> on?

	I think there is a bug in the new from code, or there is a bug in
the way the database is sorted and I need to work around it. Either way
I've not yet had time to look into it.. but I will before 1.6.0 comes
due. Currently I've had very little time in the last few weeks, and most
of it has been desktop application oriented.. sorry about that :(

	Over the weekend I hope to finish off the first (basic) stuff in
the desktop app and maybe go alpha, and then get back to the palm side of
things..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 2:32am
Subject: Re: Re: Printing with HTML

On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 Yahoo@l... wrote:

> I am a newly registered Shadow User (2 days) and can't believe I how 
> much I have already become dependent on ShadP.  I have put my ShadP 
> list in HTML files for display on the web with no problem.  It went 
> created great webpages to print without any "tinkering".

	It'll even be easier in the future :)

> While in Shadow at the front menu (list) 
> Select Transfer, Export to Memo, Format is HTML, OK 
> Now if you go to Memo on your Palm - you will see a entry that has 
> HTML code <HTML><HEAD>~~~~ 
> Do a HotSynch to PC 
> Go to where your memo file is backed up (on my PC it is 
> C:\Palm\myname\memopad\memopad.dat) 
> Open up that file and scroll to the end.  Do a copy of everything 
> starting with the <HTML> to the </HTML>  (include it) 
> Paste this into a blank note document on your pc and save it 
> something.html  
> You can now double-click the something.html file you just created and 
> it looks exactly like the shadow outline on your palm. 
> You can print it, put it on a webserver, share it with anyone, etc.

	Hey, great trick to just go to the memopad.dat file! Thats much
easier than messing around with Palm Desktop :)

> This looks like a bunch of steps, but goes quickly and really takes 
> less than a minute to do.
> 
> Jeff - Thanks for such a great program!! 

	Thanks for helping out!

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 11:37am
Subject: Warning on exit?

If you've got things in the Shadow clipboard (ie: You've just Cut
your whole list, say :), and then hit the Home button or a hardware button
to change to another application, the clipboard is normally lost. Should
Shadow pop up an alert warning you of this, asking if you're sure to leave
and lose the data?

	Ideally, Shadow should save the clipboard data, but I may get to
that later.. not for awhile. *shrug*

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: egroups@R...
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Printing with HTML

Yes, this is great. I'd love the option of listing dates in the 
export (as I've mentioned before in my post, Exporting Shadow Info on 
6/2). Then it would be even better. :)

Michael Rudnick

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 	It'll even be easier in the future :)

From: Bob Boudewyns  <boudewyns@b...>
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2001 7:26pm
Subject: Re: Warning on exit?

Changing apps can happen accidentally also, and if loss of data should result, ... Scary thought!

What about some kind of option like "Delete after Paste", which would leave an item in place until it is pasted elsewhere, then delete it from the first location.  A name for this could be "Move" !  :-)

Bob Boudewyns
Boudewyns@B...
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Mitchell 
  To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:37 AM
  Subject: [shadow-discuss] Warning on exit?



        If you've got things in the Shadow clipboard (ie: You've just Cut
  your whole list, say :), and then hit the Home button or a hardware button
  to change to another application, the clipboard is normally lost. Should
  Shadow pop up an alert warning you of this, asking if you're sure to leave
  and lose the data?

        Ideally, Shadow should save the clipboard data, but I may get to
  that later.. not for awhile. *shrug*

              jeff

  --
  "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
  circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
  sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
  -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 0:19am
Subject: Re: Warning on exit?

Yes, I think there should be a warning. It would help me remember I 
need to export (transfer) rather than cut and paste. And if I DID do 
a "cut" -- could save a key list!

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	If you've got things in the Shadow clipboard (ie: You've just 
Cut
> your whole list, say :), and then hit the Home button or a hardware 
button
> to change to another application, the clipboard is normally lost. 
Should
> Shadow pop up an alert warning you of this, asking if you're sure 
to leave
> and lose the data?
> 
> 	Ideally, Shadow should save the clipboard data, but I may get 
to
> that later.. not for awhile. *shrug*
> 
> 		jeff
>

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 0:26am
Subject: Unintentional category shift?

I looked through this list and did not see anything on this problem I 
SEEM to have discovered. I was wondering how some of my lists got in 
the wrong category. I figured I was just not being careful with the 
drop down selector. 

But...I just used a global find to track down some info in Shadow. 
Upon exiting the list I was in, I notice that every Shadow list the 
global find "found" was in the category I had left. Two lists 
originally in another category were now in this one.

Has anyone else run into this? I'm using 1.5.4 on OS 3.5.2.

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 0:35am
Subject: Re: Unintentional category shift?

On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> But...I just used a global find to track down some info in Shadow. 
> Upon exiting the list I was in, I notice that every Shadow list the 
> global find "found" was in the category I had left. Two lists 
> originally in another category were now in this one.
> 
> Has anyone else run into this? I'm using 1.5.4 on OS 3.5.2.

	Hey now, thats pretty strange. I'll look into it :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: davidross@b...
Date: Sat Jun 9, 2001 10:27pm
Subject: lost program icon

I am testing your program to see whether I like it better than 
Aportis's Brainforest. I installed the newest release (6.5.01) on my 
HS Visor Deluxe (original os), and began playing with it. Then, later 
today, I installed a new keyboard driver for my Stowaway keyboard, as 
per Think Outside's instructions (deleting the old driver, soft 
reset, installing new driver). After the driver install, my Visor 
prompted me to do another soft reset. I did so. I then tried to get 
back to Shadow, but the application icon is missing (the program and 
all data are still present). Please advise.

Thanks,

David

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Jun 10, 2001 4:03pm
Subject: Re: lost program icon

On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 davidross@b... wrote:

> I am testing your program to see whether I like it better than 
> Aportis's Brainforest. I installed the newest release (6.5.01) on my 
> HS Visor Deluxe (original os), and began playing with it. Then, later 
> today, I installed a new keyboard driver for my Stowaway keyboard, as 
> per Think Outside's instructions (deleting the old driver, soft 
> reset, installing new driver). After the driver install, my Visor 
> prompted me to do another soft reset. I did so. I then tried to get 
> back to Shadow, but the application icon is missing (the program and 
> all data are still present). Please advise.

	I've never heard of such a thing myself! Hopefully someone else
can add some insight. Was Shadow stored on a Springboard module? I have
had "recent uploads" to my Prism suddenly vanish or get re-categorized
after a reset. ie: If I yank a module, and put it in, many of my apps will
go to Unfiled as the Visor tries ot figure out what to do with the lost
and then new data..  Strange though. Good luck :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: davidross@b...
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:33am
Subject: Re: lost program icon

Shadow is stored on my internal memory, not on a Springboard module. 
I knew the program and data were still in memory, as per application 
information.

I managed to retrieve the icon by reinstalling the program. I guess 
having a program but not being able to access it because of a lost 
icon gives a new meaning to the name "Shadow." *grin*

Thanks for your help, Jeff.

David

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 davidross@b... wrote:
> 
> > I am testing your program to see whether I like it better than 
> > Aportis's Brainforest. I installed the newest release (6.5.01) on 
my 
> > HS Visor Deluxe (original os), and began playing with it. Then, 
later 
> > today, I installed a new keyboard driver for my Stowaway 
keyboard, as 
> > per Think Outside's instructions (deleting the old driver, soft 
> > reset, installing new driver). After the driver install, my Visor 
> > prompted me to do another soft reset. I did so. I then tried to 
get 
> > back to Shadow, but the application icon is missing (the program 
and 
> > all data are still present). Please advise.
> 
> 	I've never heard of such a thing myself! Hopefully someone 
else
> can add some insight. Was Shadow stored on a Springboard module? I 
have
> had "recent uploads" to my Prism suddenly vanish or get re-
categorized
> after a reset. ie: If I yank a module, and put it in, many of my 
apps will
> go to Unfiled as the Visor tries ot figure out what to do with the 
lost
> and then new data..  Strange though. Good luck :/
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:02pm
Subject: Expanding and larger icons suggestion?

Someone wrote to me with the age old request of having a pref
that'd jump an item to the top (or to fit all chilodren) when
expanded. Obviously, if an item has 5 children, and its on the 2nd last
line and you expand it, you'd have to scroll down a few times to see the
children. It would seem preferable to scroll up automatically to fit all
the children onto the screen, or if they can't all fit, the top items.

	Should this *always* be the case, or shoudl it be a
pref? (ie: Woudl you not want this behaviour? Would the extra jumping be
annoying?)

	The lad posed a very interesting question though -- how to deal
with when you collapse the item again. You'd be scrolling *up* a lot,
since the display woudl be scrolling down to hold expansions. When you
collapse, should the list try and scroll back to where it was
pre-expansion?

	He also posed the question .. should the expand/collapse arrows be
larger? I've never had a problem hitting them myself, but then -- I don't
use my palm while walking (out of fear of smashing it ;). In fact, since
my unit is a Prism (larger than a V or 505) I tend to keep it in a satchel
and not on-hip or the like.. so I don't whip it out all over the place at
all. Any improvements needed for those really on the go?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 5:28pm
Subject: Re: Expanding and larger icons suggestion?

Jumping an item to the top to fit all child items seems cool, but would be 
better as an option, just in case that behavior does end up being an 
annoying kind of thing. When the item is collapsed, I feel like the list 
should end up back where it was to begin with.

Down Arrow: I would vote to keep it small, both to keep the interface 
looking clean and because it seems to take up less space. It does seem to 
have some kind of delay to it though. Is there any way to make it more 
sensitive to a tap?

Now I have a question: Are people writing this kind of stuff directly to 
you rather than posting to the list? I'm asking, because the list seems 
awfully quiet compared to other lists where lots of ideas are batted around.

Thanks,

o.

-------

At 07:02 AM 06/11/2001, you wrote:

>         Someone wrote to me with the age old request of having a pref
>that'd jump an item to the top (or to fit all chilodren) when
>expanded. Obviously, if an item has 5 children, and its on the 2nd last
>line and you expand it, you'd have to scroll down a few times to see the
>children. It would seem preferable to scroll up automatically to fit all
>the children onto the screen, or if they can't all fit, the top items.
>
>         Should this *always* be the case, or shoudl it be a
>pref? (ie: Woudl you not want this behaviour? Would the extra jumping be
>annoying?)
>
>         The lad posed a very interesting question though -- how to deal
>with when you collapse the item again. You'd be scrolling *up* a lot,
>since the display woudl be scrolling down to hold expansions. When you
>collapse, should the list try and scroll back to where it was
>pre-expansion?
>
>         He also posed the question .. should the expand/collapse arrows be
>larger? I've never had a problem hitting them myself, but then -- I don't
>use my palm while walking (out of fear of smashing it ;). In fact, since
>my unit is a Prism (larger than a V or 505) I tend to keep it in a satchel
>and not on-hip or the like.. so I don't whip it out all over the place at
>all. Any improvements needed for those really on the go?

From: Marc Lehman  <marc_lehman@m...>
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 5:54pm
Subject: Re: Expanding and larger icons suggestion?

For the jumping, it should be a pref at the list level.  For some I have 
so many children that I keep in a specific order, I wouldn't want it to 
jump around.

I would really like an option to have bigger arrows, I have a lot of 
trouble sometimes hitting them successfully.

Thanks,
Marc
> At 07:02 AM 06/11/2001, you wrote:
>
> >         Someone wrote to me with the age old request of having a pref
> >that'd jump an item to the top (or to fit all chilodren) when
> >expanded. Obviously, if an item has 5 children, and its on the 2nd last
> >line and you expand it, you'd have to scroll down a few times to see 
> the
> >children. It would seem preferable to scroll up automatically to fit 
> all
> >the children onto the screen, or if they can't all fit, the top items.
> >
> >         Should this *always* be the case, or shoudl it be a
> >pref? (ie: Woudl you not want this behaviour? Would the extra jumping 
> be
> >annoying?)
> >
> >         The lad posed a very interesting question though -- how to 
> deal
> >with when you collapse the item again. You'd be scrolling *up* a lot,
> >since the display woudl be scrolling down to hold expansions. When you
> >collapse, should the list try and scroll back to where it was
> >pre-expansion?
> >
> >         He also posed the question .. should the expand/collapse 
> arrows be
> >larger? I've never had a problem hitting them myself, but then -- I 
> don't
> >use my palm while walking (out of fear of smashing it ;). In fact, 
> since
> >my unit is a Prism (larger than a V or 505) I tend to keep it in a 
> satchel
> >and not on-hip or the like.. so I don't whip it out all over the place 
> at
> >all. Any improvements needed for those really on the go?
>
>
<Attachment missing>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

  ----------

For the jumping, it should be a pref at the list level.  For some I have 
so many children that I keep in a specific order, I wouldn't want it to 
jump around.

I would really like an option to have bigger arrows, I have a lot of 
trouble sometimes hitting them successfully.

Thanks,
Marc
> At 07:02 AM 06/11/2001, you wrote:
>
> >         Someone wrote to me with the age old request of having a pref
> >that'd jump an item to the top (or to fit all chilodren) when
> >expanded. Obviously, if an item has 5 children, and its on the 2nd last
> >line and you expand it, you'd have to scroll down a few times to see 
> the
> >children. It would seem preferable to scroll up automatically to fit 
> all
> >the children onto the screen, or if they can't all fit, the top items.
> >
> >         Should this *always* be the case, or shoudl it be a
> >pref? (ie: Woudl you not want this behaviour? Would the extra jumping 
> be
> >annoying?)
> >
> >         The lad posed a very interesting question though -- how to 
> deal
> >with when you collapse the item again. You'd be scrolling *up* a lot,
> >since the display woudl be scrolling down to hold expansions. When you
> >collapse, should the list try and scroll back to where it was
> >pre-expansion?
> >
> >         He also posed the question .. should the expand/collapse 
> arrows be
> >larger? I've never had a problem hitting them myself, but then -- I 
> don't
> >use my palm while walking (out of fear of smashing it ;). In fact, 
> since
> >my unit is a Prism (larger than a V or 505) I tend to keep it in a 
> satchel
> >and not on-hip or the like.. so I don't whip it out all over the place 
> at
> >all. Any improvements needed for those really on the go?
>
>

  ----------


>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 6:16pm
Subject: Re: Expanding and larger icons suggestion?

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 oooieoo@k... wrote:

> Down Arrow: I would vote to keep it small, both to keep the interface 
> looking clean and because it seems to take up less space. It does seem to 
> have some kind of delay to it though. Is there any way to make it more 
> sensitive to a tap?

	Expand/collapse arrow, to be specific, but yeah.. I'm leaving it
unless lots of people want bigger icons..

> Now I have a question: Are people writing this kind of stuff directly to 
> you rather than posting to the list? I'm asking, because the list seems 
> awfully quiet compared to other lists where lots of ideas are batted around.

	Yeah, I get about 50 shadow requests via email a day
approximately..

		jeff

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> o.
> 
> -------
> 
> At 07:02 AM 06/11/2001, you wrote:
> 
> >         Someone wrote to me with the age old request of having a pref
> >that'd jump an item to the top (or to fit all chilodren) when
> >expanded. Obviously, if an item has 5 children, and its on the 2nd last
> >line and you expand it, you'd have to scroll down a few times to see the
> >children. It would seem preferable to scroll up automatically to fit all
> >the children onto the screen, or if they can't all fit, the top items.
> >
> >         Should this *always* be the case, or shoudl it be a
> >pref? (ie: Woudl you not want this behaviour? Would the extra jumping be
> >annoying?)
> >
> >         The lad posed a very interesting question though -- how to deal
> >with when you collapse the item again. You'd be scrolling *up* a lot,
> >since the display woudl be scrolling down to hold expansions. When you
> >collapse, should the list try and scroll back to where it was
> >pre-expansion?
> >
> >         He also posed the question .. should the expand/collapse arrows be
> >larger? I've never had a problem hitting them myself, but then -- I don't
> >use my palm while walking (out of fear of smashing it ;). In fact, since
> >my unit is a Prism (larger than a V or 505) I tend to keep it in a satchel
> >and not on-hip or the like.. so I don't whip it out all over the place at
> >all. Any improvements needed for those really on the go?
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: pw@w...
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 6:19pm
Subject: Re: Expanding and larger icons suggestion?

Jeff,

I fully support the idea that, when expanding an item, that item 
should move UP enough to show all children OR to the top line of the 
screen.

I also think that, when you contract the same item, it should stay 
where it ended up during expansion. I think that you work your way 
down a list more often than you work up one, so it is an advantage to 
reveal the following items after the action on the first item. This 
also decreases screen movements,

I do not see the need for a preference for this behavior, others 
might.

I have gotten used to the size of the arrows but admit I thought them 
a touch small to start with.

Peter

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Someone wrote to me with the age old request of having a pref
> that'd jump an item to the top (or to fit all chilodren) when
> expanded. Obviously, if an item has 5 children, and its on the 2nd 
last
> line and you expand it, you'd have to scroll down a few times to 
see the
> children. It would seem preferable to scroll up automatically to 
fit all
> the children onto the screen, or if they can't all fit, the top 
items.
> 
> 	Should this *always* be the case, or shoudl it be a
> pref? (ie: Woudl you not want this behaviour? Would the extra 
jumping be
> annoying?)
> 
> 	The lad posed a very interesting question though -- how to 
deal
> with when you collapse the item again. You'd be scrolling *up* a 
lot,
> since the display woudl be scrolling down to hold expansions. When 
you
> collapse, should the list try and scroll back to where it was
> pre-expansion?
> 
> 	He also posed the question .. should the expand/collapse 
arrows be
> larger? I've never had a problem hitting them myself, but then -- I 
don't
> use my palm while walking (out of fear of smashing it ;). In fact, 
since
> my unit is a Prism (larger than a V or 505) I tend to keep it in a 
satchel
> and not on-hip or the like.. so I don't whip it out all over the 
place at
> all. Any improvements needed for those really on the go?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: oooieoo@k...
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 6:23pm
Subject: Re: Expanding and larger icons suggestion?

Mark wrote:
>I would really like an option to have bigger arrows, I have a lot of
>trouble sometimes hitting them successfully.

The little arrows work great in other programs, like ThoughtManager for 
instance. It's very sensitive to a tap. Other programs with the larger 
arrows don't feel any easier than ShadowPlan to get to work--they take up a 
lot of space and look clunky to boot. Seems like the best of both worlds 
might be a very good thing.

o.

From: mwyatt1@p...
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 10:45pm
Subject: Re: Expanding and larger icons suggestion?

Hello all, actually I posed this question to Jeff and then found out 
about this list and am happy to see people milling these questions 
around.  Thanks.  
Mike Wyatt


> 
> Now I have a question: Are people writing this kind of stuff 
directly to 
> you rather than posting to the list? I'm asking, because the list 
seems 
> awfully quiet compared to other lists where lots of ideas are 
batted around.

From: ricardo131@y...
Date: Mon Jun 11, 2001 11:40pm
Subject: Trying 1.56

Greetings,
   Looks like this app is on the right road in a lot of ways.. 
Congrats to the developer(s). Quick question..If I want to format a 
project in a simple straightforward vertical list (with item names 
and nothing else- no other annotations and preferably no indents) 
that I can export to memo pad to later cut and paste into my desktop 
project mgmt.software..what screens or menus should I use..and what 
settings.. 
Keep up the good work!
R
PS. After a project is finished, is it possible to erase all settings
(checked, unchecked, links, %  etc.) in order to create a template 
for future use..(without manually doing this one item at a time, of 
course)

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 12, 2001 0:52am
Subject: Re: Trying 1.56

On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:

> Congrats to the developer(s). Quick question..If I want to format a 
> project in a simple straightforward vertical list (with item names 
> and nothing else- no other annotations and preferably no indents) 
> that I can export to memo pad to later cut and paste into my desktop 
> project mgmt.software..what screens or menus should I use..and what 
> settings.. 

	If you don't want indents.. don't add children. Or if you wish to
add children, use the "suppress indent" option in the custom list
section. That might be a bit much to start with though, so its easiest to
just not add children if you don't want them ;) If you want minimal
gadgets, you can change the list type to "Note", which has very little
extras. If you want absolutely nothing, then again, just change the list
to "Custom", and you're set (by default, custom lists have no gadgets
enabled)

	Check the manual for exports, but essentially, on the file
selection screen, you can just pick the list, pulldown the menus, and
under the Transfer menu is an "Export to Memo" option. Chose that, and
voila, you're well on your way.

> PS. After a project is finished, is it possible to erase all settings
> (checked, unchecked, links, %  etc.) in order to create a template 
> for future use..(without manually doing this one item at a time, of 
> course)

	Hmm, you can undo the checks pretty easily, but undoing progress
%age etc, no.. but thats an interesting idea. 

	Anyone else need a "reset list" feature?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ricardo131@y...
Date: Tue Jun 12, 2001 2:53am
Subject: Re: Trying 1.56

Greetings Jeff,
I appreciate the super-quick response..Will try Custom setting and 
other instructions...
about creating templates..who wants to reinvent the wheel? It 
(templates) saves having to rethink the process each time..and..it is 
a way of keeping tabs on improvements and ideas (notes) about the 
projects and processes.. So please consider it a wish.. a feature 
request :-) 
Resetting with an option to keep notes intact ?..maybe ?
Well, back to checking out Shadow..
R

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:
> 
> > Congrats to the developer(s). Quick question..If I want to format 
a 
> > project in a simple straightforward vertical list (with item 
names 
> > and nothing else- no other annotations and preferably no indents) 
> > that I can export to memo pad to later cut and paste into my 
desktop 
> > project mgmt.software..what screens or menus should I use..and 
what 
> > settings.. 
> 
> 	If you don't want indents.. don't add children. Or if you 
wish to
> add children, use the "suppress indent" option in the custom list
> section. That might be a bit much to start with though, so its 
easiest to
> just not add children if you don't want them ;) If you want minimal
> gadgets, you can change the list type to "Note", which has very 
little
> extras. If you want absolutely nothing, then again, just change the 
list
> to "Custom", and you're set (by default, custom lists have no 
gadgets
> enabled)
> 
> 	Check the manual for exports, but essentially, on the file
> selection screen, you can just pick the list, pulldown the menus, 
and
> under the Transfer menu is an "Export to Memo" option. Chose that, 
and
> voila, you're well on your way.
> 
> > PS. After a project is finished, is it possible to erase all 
settings
> > (checked, unchecked, links, %  etc.) in order to create a 
template 
> > for future use..(without manually doing this one item at a time, 
of 
> > course)
> 
> 	Hmm, you can undo the checks pretty easily, but undoing 
progress
> %age etc, no.. but thats an interesting idea. 
> 
> 	Anyone else need a "reset list" feature?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jun 12, 2001 2:59am
Subject: Re: Re: Trying 1.56, and re: Templates

Formal templares are on my todo list, but way down.

	You can use "duplciate list" to copy a list.. so many people
create an empty list (a template, as it were), and then duplicate it and
fill it in for a list. When done, just delete it. IF you have lots of
these templates, just keep them in a template category, perhaps.. then
duplicate, and recategorize the new item to its proper location.

		jeff

On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:

> Greetings Jeff,
> I appreciate the super-quick response..Will try Custom setting and 
> other instructions...
> about creating templates..who wants to reinvent the wheel? It 
> (templates) saves having to rethink the process each time..and..it is 
> a way of keeping tabs on improvements and ideas (notes) about the 
> projects and processes.. So please consider it a wish.. a feature 
> request :-) 
> Resetting with an option to keep notes intact ?..maybe ?
> Well, back to checking out Shadow..
> R
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:
> > 
> > > Congrats to the developer(s). Quick question..If I want to format 
> a 
> > > project in a simple straightforward vertical list (with item 
> names 
> > > and nothing else- no other annotations and preferably no indents) 
> > > that I can export to memo pad to later cut and paste into my 
> desktop 
> > > project mgmt.software..what screens or menus should I use..and 
> what 
> > > settings.. 
> > 
> > 	If you don't want indents.. don't add children. Or if you 
> wish to
> > add children, use the "suppress indent" option in the custom list
> > section. That might be a bit much to start with though, so its 
> easiest to
> > just not add children if you don't want them ;) If you want minimal
> > gadgets, you can change the list type to "Note", which has very 
> little
> > extras. If you want absolutely nothing, then again, just change the 
> list
> > to "Custom", and you're set (by default, custom lists have no 
> gadgets
> > enabled)
> > 
> > 	Check the manual for exports, but essentially, on the file
> > selection screen, you can just pick the list, pulldown the menus, 
> and
> > under the Transfer menu is an "Export to Memo" option. Chose that, 
> and
> > voila, you're well on your way.
> > 
> > > PS. After a project is finished, is it possible to erase all 
> settings
> > > (checked, unchecked, links, %  etc.) in order to create a 
> template 
> > > for future use..(without manually doing this one item at a time, 
> of 
> > > course)
> > 
> > 	Hmm, you can undo the checks pretty easily, but undoing 
> progress
> > %age etc, no.. but thats an interesting idea. 
> > 
> > 	Anyone else need a "reset list" feature?
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: ricardo131@y...
Date: Tue Jun 12, 2001 3:48am
Subject: Re: Trying 1.56, and re: Templates

Sounds fine to me..BTW, my Template category has already been created 
in Shadow..¨duplicate list¨ is the way to go, I agree,..Thanks for 
another quick response..
Best Regards
R

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Formal templares are on my todo list, but way down.
> 
> 	You can use "duplciate list" to copy a list.. so many people
> create an empty list (a template, as it were), and then duplicate 
it and
> fill it in for a list. When done, just delete it. IF you have lots 
of
> these templates, just keep them in a template category, perhaps.. 
then
> duplicate, and recategorize the new item to its proper location.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:
> 
> > Greetings Jeff,
> > I appreciate the super-quick response..Will try Custom setting 
and 
> > other instructions...
> > about creating templates..who wants to reinvent the wheel? It 
> > (templates) saves having to rethink the process each 
time..and..it is 
> > a way of keeping tabs on improvements and ideas (notes) about the 
> > projects and processes.. So please consider it a wish.. a feature 
> > request :-) 
> > Resetting with an option to keep notes intact ?..maybe ?
> > Well, back to checking out Shadow..
> > R
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Congrats to the developer(s). Quick question..If I want to 
format 
> > a 
> > > > project in a simple straightforward vertical list (with item 
> > names 
> > > > and nothing else- no other annotations and preferably no 
indents) 
> > > > that I can export to memo pad to later cut and paste into my 
> > desktop 
> > > > project mgmt.software..what screens or menus should I 
use..and 
> > what 
> > > > settings.. 
> > > 
> > > 	If you don't want indents.. don't add children. Or if you 
> > wish to
> > > add children, use the "suppress indent" option in the custom 
list
> > > section. That might be a bit much to start with though, so its 
> > easiest to
> > > just not add children if you don't want them ;) If you want 
minimal
> > > gadgets, you can change the list type to "Note", which has very 
> > little
> > > extras. If you want absolutely nothing, then again, just change 
the 
> > list
> > > to "Custom", and you're set (by default, custom lists have no 
> > gadgets
> > > enabled)
> > > 
> > > 	Check the manual for exports, but essentially, on the file
> > > selection screen, you can just pick the list, pulldown the 
menus, 
> > and
> > > under the Transfer menu is an "Export to Memo" option. Chose 
that, 
> > and
> > > voila, you're well on your way.
> > > 
> > > > PS. After a project is finished, is it possible to erase all 
> > settings
> > > > (checked, unchecked, links, %  etc.) in order to create a 
> > template 
> > > > for future use..(without manually doing this one item at a 
time, 
> > of 
> > > > course)
> > > 
> > > 	Hmm, you can undo the checks pretty easily, but undoing 
> > progress
> > > %age etc, no.. but thats an interesting idea. 
> > > 
> > > 	Anyone else need a "reset list" feature?
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > > --
> > > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your 
own 
> > micro
> > > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I 
mean,
> > > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate 
he 
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > 
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: TEWoerner@m...
Date: Tue Jun 12, 2001 1:20pm
Subject: Re: Trying 1.56

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 ricardo131@y... wrote:
> 
List reset would be useful, if this doesn't significantly postpone 
other features you have mentioned..  Outlines created in the heat of 
battle are better than those prepared "academically".  Template 
project management outlines is a fundamental of modern PM.  

Tim

> > Congrats to the developer(s). Quick question..If I want to format 
a 
> > project in a simple straightforward vertical list (with item 
names 
> > and nothing else- no other annotations and preferably no indents) 
> > that I can export to memo pad to later cut and paste into my 
desktop 
> > project mgmt.software..what screens or menus should I use..and 
what 
> > settings.. 
> 
> 	If you don't want indents.. don't add children. Or if you 
wish to
> add children, use the "suppress indent" option in the custom list
> section. That might be a bit much to start with though, so its 
easiest to
> just not add children if you don't want them ;) If you want minimal
> gadgets, you can change the list type to "Note", which has very 
little
> extras. If you want absolutely nothing, then again, just change the 
list
> to "Custom", and you're set (by default, custom lists have no 
gadgets
> enabled)
> 
> 	Check the manual for exports, but essentially, on the file
> selection screen, you can just pick the list, pulldown the menus, 
and
> under the Transfer menu is an "Export to Memo" option. Chose that, 
and
> voila, you're well on your way.
> 
> > PS. After a project is finished, is it possible to erase all 
settings
> > (checked, unchecked, links, %  etc.) in order to create a 
template 
> > for future use..(without manually doing this one item at a time, 
of 
> > course)
> 
> 	Hmm, you can undo the checks pretty easily, but undoing 
progress
> %age etc, no.. but thats an interesting idea. 
> 
> 	Anyone else need a "reset list" feature?
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

From: Jan Lund Thomsen  <kwed@k...>
Date: Wed Jun 13, 2001 0:36am
Subject: Shadow 1.56 - Rethinking Linking

Hi,
   I posted a few suggestions for Shadow 1.56 on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot and
Jeff urged me to get on the mailing list and contribute - so here I am.

However intrigued I have been with Shadow since the early releases, my loyalty
is still attached to Arranger V1.20, as old and abandoned as it may seem. Why?
One reason: Linking. Thus I was very much pleased to see linking playing a
major part of the current Shadow release (last time I checked Shadow was back
at 1.40)

However, I wasn't altogether pleased with what I saw. Rather than the current
method of having to do a "Link Add" for address/memos in details/link I'm
suggesting that address/memo linking is done in the same way as
appointments/todos are handled - via the "New from..." dialog box.

   Reason 1: You have to add address/memo links to existing outline items while
being able to create separate items for appointment/todo links? Highly
illogical, and a lot less intuitive. Why not handle links to the "big 4"
applications the same way?

   Reason 2: Having Address/memo links attached to an outline item prevents you
from moving an address or memo link freely around the outline.

Jeff posted the following on comp.sys.palmtops.pilot regarding this:
>	Most people use lists to contain action or dated items, and these
>items are often related to one or more addresses and things. Items tend
>not to *be* addresses, since that lacks context. A shopping list could
>include an item "buy stuff" with a link to an address, or a series of
>addresses.. but just a list having an address thingy in it .. lacks
>context. A list of people doesn't seem to be useful, but a list of peopel
>attached to an item does. You coudl of course create an item, then put
>the people as children of it, but my brain didn't think that way when I
>built this.

I'm arguing that a list of people (or memos/todos/appointments) as separate
items *is* useful, not on their own - but as children of whatever task they are
related to.

Example; when I moved cross-country back in December I needed someone to help
me drag all that furniture up the stairs - I created a "Moving help" outline
with four items - "Confirmed", "Negative", "Tentative" and "Haven't asked yet".
Having done this I started adding address book links as children under the
"Haven't asked yet" item. As I was calling people I moved their address-links
according to the answer I got. 

Had I used Shadow for this task it would have taken ages just to move one
person to a different outline position. Same thing applies to memo links. Now
wouldn't it be a lot neater if all it took was one drag of the pen?

  --Jan

From: ricardo131@y...
Date: Wed Jun 13,