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101

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jan 30, 2001 10:08pm
Subject: Re: One Other Option that Would Help - Display Date

 
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 chodges@f... wrote:

> One other option that would helpis if Shadow could display the target 
> date on the main list.  That way the user could see the due dates for 
> tasks to be completed.  If you take my previous example with the 
> progress bar it would look like this:

	Change the list to a custom view, and then enable the columns you
wish. So go to the list prefs, change the list type to Custom, and hit the
Custom button. From there you can turn on a target date column if you
like.

		jeff

> 
> - Version 1.1     3/9/2001 (Progress bar)                         
>     - New features  2/16/2001 (Progress bar)                                                       
>           1- Portfolio implementation (No progress bar)                                   
>           2- Portfolio extraction  (No progress bar)                                      
>     - Issues  2/22/2001 (Progress bar)                                                              
>           1- Multi-dimensional items  (No progress bar)                                   
>           2- Name conflicts in entity searching (No progress bar)                        
> - Version 1.2  4/15/2001    (Progress bar)                                                         
>     - New features  4/5/2001 (Progress bar)                                                        
>           1 - Good stuff  (No progress bar)                                               
>           2 - Bad stuff  (No progress bar)                                                
>     - Issues       4/10/2001 (Progress bar)                                                        
>           1 - Fix everything else  (No progress bar)    
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Christopher Hodges
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
102

From: chodges@f...
Date: Tue Jan 30, 2001 10:34pm
Subject: Re: One Other Option that Would Help - Display Date

 
> 	Change the list to a custom view, and then enable the columns 
you
> wish. So go to the list prefs, change the list type to Custom, and 
hit the
> Custom button. From there you can turn on a target date column if 
you
> like.
> 
> 		jeff


Duh!!  I totally forgot about that option.  Sorry.  Works great.

Chris
103

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 0:04am
Subject: Re: Shadow suggestion

 
I think that  the bold button should appear in both locations.  
Changing color and bolding a font are frequently done at the same 
time.  It shouldn't hurt to have them in 2 places, since there's 
plenty of screen real estate in the detail window.  I create tasks 
with the default black and normal font.  At a later time, I color and 
bold, to increase attention.  It should be easy to update - that's 
why the option details page was such a good idea.  (when hilight gets 
more definable options, I might be able to let it change colors for 
me - right now the options don't fit my style)

> > 1.  add a bold button to the item options page.
> 
> 	Hmm. I'm in debate about that -- I now have colour option on 
the Option window, and the detail window (to be really conveniant). 
Should I put bold onto the option window as well, or should both 
options just be in details?
**********************************************************************

Well, I see your point - but would anyone really be alarmed long?  
After all, you would either end up directly in item options, or see a 
menu pointing to it.  And not to put too fine a point on it, but 
those who might be alarmed at this type of behavior are not going to 
add any software to their Palm anyway.  Most users use the default 
apps.  ShadowPlan, no matter how easy to use, is going to be used by 
people with at least a bit of initiative.....

> > 2.  when in the task list, and showing the  link arrow column...
> >     if there are no links, and the only choice is "item options",
> >     let a click take you directly to item options, without showing
> >     the one-item menu We talked about this sort of thing a couple 
months back; it was decided by everyone that a consistant UI is 
better than a usually-consistant-but-not-always one. Though I'm open 
to others suggestions. But it coudl alarm people to have it act 
differently for some of their linked items..

*************************************************************

I do appreciate that you note suggestions and state your reasons for 
the direction you choose to develop.  You can't please everyone, and 
you are bound to receive lots of conflicting ideas.

tommyb
104

From: ianf@e...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 7:24am
Subject: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?

 
Hi, 

I'm trying out Shadow 1.4.0r.

It seems very poweful... I wonder if it would
be possible, though, to save on screen real estate
by inlining some of the details? For example, if I 
have columns for both target date and progress, the
width left available for text becomes quite restricted.
Also, not all entries have dates or bars, leading to 
wasted space. Could the bars and dates be included
after the bullets (at the beginning of the item names)
on the lhs of the screen?

Other smaller things I'd like to see are categories
for sub-items (or at least for the Todos, so that the
cat can be set without having to leave Shadow), and an
option to automatically filter out the DB4 comment strings
(should be documented and easy to automatically identify...?)

Thanks much,

 - Ian.
105

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?

 
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 ianf@e... wrote:

	Woa, lots here :)

> It seems very poweful... I wonder if it would
> be possible, though, to save on screen real estate
> by inlining some of the details? For example, if I 
> have columns for both target date and progress, the
> width left available for text becomes quite restricted.
> Also, not all entries have dates or bars, leading to 
> wasted space. Could the bars and dates be included
> after the bullets (at the beginning of the item names)
> on the lhs of the screen?

	It could be done this way, but doesn't this destroy the document
structure? (ie: Text indenting at different levels, so that you cannot
immediately view how far indented something is, without thinking about it
for a sec)? I could perhaps make an ption to put certain things on another
line.. *shrug* (like progress bar below target date, or something)

> Other smaller things I'd like to see are categories
> for sub-items (or at least for the Todos, so that the
> cat can be set without having to leave Shadow), and an

	In working on the conduit, I have made possible the option to
categorize individual shadow items. If people want it, I can build
it.. though setting the cat for an item would be done on the Details
window, which might be awkward. I'd also have ot add sorting and
filtering, and perhaps another custom-optional column..

> option to automatically filter out the DB4 comment strings
> (should be documented and easy to automatically identify...?)

	This was brought up in the past.. its a neat idea. I'm leaving it
until later, since its DB4 specific and I'm trying to work on things that
affect everybody still. There is a pref to hide all notes, in case the
only notes you have are DB4 extensions..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
106

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:23pm
Subject: Still more ideas....

 
Jeff,

thanks for your efforts you spend for making us happy. We should stay 
quiet a little and let you work on the features we requested :)

Actually, I myself just joint the shadow club - have been using 
ListMaker for quite a while but some of your concepts fit better for 
everyday use.... 

Anyway, good programs also force thoughts about even increased 
usability - here a two

1. Inter-Shadow links on a per-record basis
Instead of linking to a Shadow database, one should be able to link 
to a specific topic in a selected database, i.e. the database opens 
on selection and jumps to the linked item (on top? highlighted?).
A "Back" button should be provided.

The Tap and Hold could be extended so that source items would be 
visible or even selectable.

It could come, in the end to a "web-like" structure, like the one in 
the PersonalBrain of http://www.thebrain.com , a tremenduous tool to 
manage unordered collections of "thoughts". (in fact, they announced 
a palm edition, but never made it...)

Top favourite, of course, would be selection of records out of other 
dbs. I didn't have a too close look into Palm's API, but wouldn't it 
be possible to identify "foreign" record ids out of a "Find" result 
and pass this back to a foreign app somehow? Just thinking...

2. Templates
If you know ListMaker, you know what I mean - you sometimes have 
scenarios where predefined, non-trivial items would be handy.
It's kind of a form-like approach, filling the labelled sub-items the 
template provides.

E.g. when collecting software license key infos: Just enter "New item"
and you would get a new Node "Software:", including child 
nodes "Vendor Site:", "Purchase Date:", "License Key:" and so on. You 
could decide to enter specific values, add additional child nodes or 
delete predefined ones. Very helpful to structure collection lists, 
libraries etc.

Of course, this could be achieved with copy & paste from a dedicated 
template database within Shadow, but too many clicks (taps :)...

what do you think?

regards
Martin
107

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Still more ideas....

 
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> thanks for your efforts you spend for making us happy. We should stay 
> quiet a little and let you work on the features we requested :)

	Everyone has been quiet (thankfully this round :) -- we were
having like 30-100 emails a day for awhile coming through the lists.. the
last week has been like 20 total. But thats good, since I'm redoing a lot
of nasty stuff.

> Actually, I myself just joint the shadow club - have been using 
> ListMaker for quite a while but some of your concepts fit better for 
> everyday use.... 

	And more to come. But ListMaker really is a nifty app, with a lot
of great stuff in it.

> 1. Inter-Shadow links on a per-record basis
> Instead of linking to a Shadow database, one should be able to link 
> to a specific topic in a selected database, i.e. the database opens 
> on selection and jumps to the linked item (on top? highlighted?).

	This is planned, but I've not determined a good UI way to do it; I
was thinking of eventually supporting split-screen, so you could open a
second list, and then linking would be an easy tap, operation tap. But
you've given me an idea.. maybe have a "link to other item" option, and
you pick a shadow list, and then it lists off all the top-level-items on
that list so that you can pick one to link to. Not a fine granularity, but
not bad. Theres a lot of ideras in this boat though.. so I might leave it
for awhile, so that when I get to it, we can go and make a lot of good
task-dependancy decisions at once.

> A "Back" button should be provided.

	A "recently visited files" list will be added soon.. maybe onto
the end of the View popmenu, or as another popmenu, or somethign. So you
can jump to any of the last visited 5 lists or something.

> The Tap and Hold could be extended so that source items would be 
> visible or even selectable.

	Source items?

> Top favourite, of course, would be selection of records out of other 
> dbs. I didn't have a too close look into Palm's API, but wouldn't it 
> be possible to identify "foreign" record ids out of a "Find" result 
> and pass this back to a foreign app somehow? Just thinking...

	There are lots of possibilities.. I've just not gotten into that
yet, since its a big step. I'd like to do it whole hog, and not half
way. So I'm working on polishing other open-ended items first (like
atggign and categortizing items, global find, better filters, etc).

> If you know ListMaker, you know what I mean - you sometimes have 
> scenarios where predefined, non-trivial items would be handy.
> It's kind of a form-like approach, filling the labelled sub-items the 
> template provides.

	Different types of templates have been discussed; perhaps a Shadow
file where each top level item is the name of a template, and its children
are the template details. Then an easy copy/paste mechanism (easier than
opening the other file to do it), and maybe a relative-date handler or
something. We need to talk about this more.

	Sorry for my rush.. but my philosophy is to get you guys talking
about things, and once we've all hashed out a Good Idea [tm], I'll add it
in. If I make all the decisions, it slows down devel,opment, and means its
an app designed for me.. and I'm an outliner wimp ;) 

	These are all good ideas.. so if you can get some template
discussions going on, I'll help out and we can get something nailed down
:)

		jeff


--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
108

From: ianf@e...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:53pm
Subject:

 

109

From: demetrios@c...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:38pm
Subject: My Two Cents Worth

 
1-No children = No progress, maybe just a checkspot, love those btw. 

a-Wherever you put it, I'd like to see the Bold button toggle bold, 
even if the "Always bold title(not memo)" is checked. While I'm in 
this area of the program, I'd like to say  I love the inline notes!

A-As to Tommy's request, how about going the other way? Instead of a 
One-item menu, could you put more items in the menu? If not, then I 
agree with him, no real reson for a one-item menu.

i-Ian's isea of inlining I like. If you have "supress title word 
wrap" checked, you could single tap to highlight/expand the line and 
still double tap would take you to details. I really hate having to 
go into the details screen to see what all the title says.

I- Any idea why it takes so long to get into and navigate around 
within Shadow? I only have 4 Lists @ about 60K and only 26 records {I 
used the built-in Info screen, and I don't know what it considers 
records, but I thought I hade a lot more then that, unless it doesn't 
count childern as records} Anyway, it just seems like it acts and 
reacts very slowlygoing in and out of the lists as well as the 
program it'self.

   If you've made it this far let say I'm sorry for going on so, but 
it's easier for me to do it this way as opposed to a bunch of replies.
Oh well, that's all I can think of right now so I'll let you go.

Any Comments?

Demetrios, 
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?
110

From: web_egroups@r...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:40pm
Subject: Re: Suppress Progress on Children Suggestion

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 chodges@f... wrote:
> 
> > One feature that would be nice if to have an option that would 
> > suppress the progress on children that don't have their own
> > children.  
> > This option currently seems to be an all-or-nothing proposition.  
> > Let me illustrate what I'm proposing:

> Anyone else with comments? Theres been a few suggestions around
> this sort of thing.. anyone have any other ideas on good rules for
> supressing progress bars where not needed?
> 
> Something like this should go in.. I can change the existing pref
> to be more useful.

I think that suppressing the progress bars on individual tasks would 
be nice as long as it didn't make the UI too cluttered. ShadowPlan 
already has a lot of options, and you don't want to make the program 
so customizable that it is unusable without reading the manual.

Having said that, if it is easy to do, I think that having an option 
to generate the progress bars automatically would be nice. For 
instance, if a task has four components, then the progress bar for 
the task could automatically fill in 25% increments as each component 
was completed. Alternately, if the components were set to finish on a 
certain date then the progress bar could be updated as time passed.

Jim
111

From: web_egroups@r...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 4:00pm
Subject: Relative vs absolute dates

 
I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use 
relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have 
several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a 
completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task 
and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get 
rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the 
following tasks.

What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n 
days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date 
is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be 
set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until 
it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based 
off the task duration) would be set.

For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and 
have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The 
active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target 
drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a 
relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance, 
assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user 
changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to 
3 days from now.

Jim
112

From: demetrios@c...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 4:57pm
Subject: My Two Cents Worth

 
Ok, a couple of suggestions/requests:

1-Could the Bold button, wherever you end up putting it, toggle the 
bold, even if you chose "Always bold title". Also , please leave it 
on the details page, wether you put it on the options page or not.

b-Ian's idea of inlining the text for the description/title/item, 
like it is for notes, would be great. Though I don't like the part 
about moving the colums around. Like Jeff replied, it would just make 
it all messy. You could put it all on another line so it could be 
gotten to by way of the inlining tap.

C-About the "link arrow column", if the one-item menu is no good, why 
not just add more choices for that menu? Otherwise I agree that 
consistent is better than "usually-consistant-but-not-always".

Well, that's all I can think of right now. Except to again complement 
Jeff and to thank him for being so accessable and responsive to our 
comments, thanks.

Demetrios, 
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?
113

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 5:53pm
Subject: Re: My Two Cents Worth

 
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:

> 1-Could the Bold button, wherever you end up putting it, toggle the 
> bold, even if you chose "Always bold title". Also , please leave it 
> on the details page, wether you put it on the options page or not.

	Hmm. Opinions? Would this qualift as
"usually-consistant-but-not-always"? :)

> Well, that's all I can think of right now. Except to again complement 
> Jeff and to thank him for being so accessable and responsive to our 
> comments, thanks.

	Thanks :) The way I see it.. it takes time, but not *that* much
time, to be responsive and available. And its certainly a better
experience for all of us, so is worth doing.  Now if only fewer
developers, providers, companies, etc were less lazy :/

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
114

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 3:12am
Subject: Re: Relative vs absolute dates

 
A few people have brought this up recently. What sort of relative
options are needed? (ie: Are relative items always short, ot can they be
long? Do I need a fast selector with 1,2,5,7 days, 1, 2, 3 months, 1,2, 3
weeks, and "pick from comprehensive" which would allow oyu to specify
arbitrary dayes/units?

	Its an interesting idea. I've CC'd shadow-discuss mailing list
(as well as forum) to get maximum exposure..

		jeff

On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:

> I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use 
> relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have 
> several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a 
> completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task 
> and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get 
> rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the 
> following tasks.
> 
> What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n 
> days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date 
> is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be 
> set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until 
> it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based 
> off the task duration) would be set.
> 
> For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and 
> have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The 
> active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target 
> drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a 
> relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance, 
> assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user 
> changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to 
> 3 days from now.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
115

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 3:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Suppress Progress on Children Suggestion

 
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:

> I think that suppressing the progress bars on individual tasks would 
> be nice as long as it didn't make the UI too cluttered. ShadowPlan 
> already has a lot of options, and you don't want to make the program 
> so customizable that it is unusable without reading the manual.

	I will be adding an option, as suggested, to "suppress progress
for items without children", I think. I'm not worrying about it just yet,
due to the conduit work and restructuring.. but its on my todo list and
will come soon :)

> Having said that, if it is easy to do, I think that having an option 
> to generate the progress bars automatically would be nice. For 
> instance, if a task has four components, then the progress bar for 
> the task could automatically fill in 25% increments as each component 
> was completed. Alternately, if the components were set to finish on a 
> certain date then the progress bar could be updated as time passed.

	Is this needed and useful? Usually folks will set up subtasks, and
then set the progress for them, if they've gotten aywhere.. automatically
averaging them on creation may be goofy?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
116

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 3:46am
Subject: Re: My Two Cents Worth

 
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:

> a-Wherever you put it, I'd like to see the Bold button toggle bold, 
> even if the "Always bold title(not memo)" is checked. While I'm in 
> this area of the program, I'd like to say  I love the inline notes!

	Is this a good idea? Anyone?

> A-As to Tommy's request, how about going the other way? Instead of a 
> One-item menu, could you put more items in the menu? If not, then I 
> agree with him, no real reson for a one-item menu.

	UI consistancy is a very good reason. Adding items for no reaosn
is a bad idea, but if we have items worht adding, let me know :)

> i-Ian's isea of inlining I like. If you have "supress title word 
> wrap" checked, you could single tap to highlight/expand the line and 
> still double tap would take you to details. I really hate having to 
> go into the details screen to see what all the title says.

	Yeah; I'll be adding so if you tap the "..." then it will expand
the title text. How to collapse it again, though? (put a ... at the end,
to tap on? Or a little arrow-up at the end?)

> I- Any idea why it takes so long to get into and navigate around 
> within Shadow? I only have 4 Lists @ about 60K and only 26 records {I 
> used the built-in Info screen, and I don't know what it considers 
> records, but I thought I hade a lot more then that, unless it doesn't 
> count childern as records} Anyway, it just seems like it acts and 
> reacts very slowlygoing in and out of the lists as well as the 
> program it'self.

	Its due to the caching technique used; I'm changing the way that
works over the next few versions.. I'd like to make opening a list REALLY
FAST, and working in Shadow as fast as always, and exitting a list the
slow part, if its to be slow at all. Versions over the next few weeks may
change the speeds a lot (for the better!)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
117

From: kencn@a...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 4:13am
Subject: Shadow Plan Suggestions

 
Jeff,

Let me add my compliments to all the others you've been getting.  
Shadow Plan really is a marvelous application.  I've been using 
Progect for several months and watching your program with interest.  
The latest release is too much to resist so I registered today.

I have a few suggestions.  Actually, I had a lot of others but 
browsing this message board revealed that most have been suggested
and many are in the works.  Sorry if these are repeats too:

1. With the zoom function, how about displaying the text of the
parent in the title bar (like Progect) so you have a point of 
reference.  I would also include the numbering if numbering is turned 
on.

2. I would really love to see the ability to enter outline entries 
directly on the screen rather than through a full screen dialog box.  
Bonsai's approach is the best though I'm sure it messes up some of 
your UI design.  Perhaps an option to have a small dialog box pop up 
like Brainforest so you could enter the text but still see some of
the surrounding outline items.

3. Could you consider an option to export directly to a DOC file -
for exporting longer outlines.  Also an option control which data 
fields (priority, due date, memo, etc.)  actually get exported would 
be nice.

Thanks.
Ken
118

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 4:18am
Subject: Re: Shadow Plan Suggestions

 
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> 1. With the zoom function, how about displaying the text of the
> parent in the title bar (like Progect) so you have a point of 
> reference.  I would also include the numbering if numbering is turned 
> on.

	This will definitely happen, but feel free to keep reminding
me. Due to the conduit, ym todo list is getting huge and backed up :)

> 2. I would really love to see the ability to enter outline entries 
> directly on the screen rather than through a full screen dialog box.  
> Bonsai's approach is the best though I'm sure it messes up some of 
> your UI design.  Perhaps an option to have a small dialog box pop up 
> like Brainforest so you could enter the text but still see some of
> the surrounding outline items.

	Hmm. Intyeresting thought there. I am planning on eventually
having an on-screen edit,using the built-in Palm widget.. but it
complicates the display so I'm leaving it for now. 99% of peopel seem
happy, though I'msure theres a silent 15% or so in there :)

> 3. Could you consider an option to export directly to a DOC file -
> for exporting longer outlines.  Also an option control which data 
> fields (priority, due date, memo, etc.)  actually get exported would 
> be nice.

	Imp/Exp via DOc is very planned, as is a much improved filter
content.

	Gotta run!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
119

From: Ian Frank  <ianf@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 4:54am
Subject: Re: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?

 
> 	It could be done this way, but doesn't this destroy the
  > document structure? (ie: Text indenting at different levels, so
  > that you cannot immediately view how far indented something is,
  > without thinking about it for a sec)? I could perhaps make an
  > ption to put certain things on another line.. *shrug* (like
  > progress bar below target date, or something)

Sorry, I guess I didn't explain this too well.
Let me try to create an ASCII example (just guessing
at the width of the Palm screen):

v o Example entry with a long  --/--
    name
    - o Child with a date      31/01
    - o Child with a date and  31/07
        a much, much, longer
        name

Here, the 'v' is supposed to be the arrow icon for an expanded node,
the 'o' is a check bullet, etc. There's a date column, but it takes up
space because 1) it's not needed for all items, and 2) even items that
do have a date take up more space now if they're longer than two
lines. The "inline" alternative might look like:

v o Example entry with a long name
    - o [31/01]Child with a date      
    - o [31/07]Child with a date and  
        a much, much, longer name

This takes up less space, and could be done for the progrees bars too
(just place them directly before the text of an item). Not sure what
should be done for items with no date (leave blank as above, or maybe
include a calendar icon?) I'm sure it's harder to code inline dates
and progress bars this way (eg, the stylus taps to pick the calendar
or prgress bar are no longer in a well-defined column), but I think it
would really increase the readability of custom lists (esp when date
and progress are being displayed together).

Thanks,

        - Ian.
120

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 6:33am
Subject: Date Display / Date Format

 
Date Display:
Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the 
year on the line below Month-Day.

   MM-DD
   YYYY

I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no 
indication it was over a year a way.

======
Date Format:
I am all for an inline display of the dates.  But I would ask that 
YYYY-MM-DD &/or YYYY/MM-DD be an options. 

Higher numbers are always later. Visa versa for lower numbers.

Comment: My first use of an outliner was as a PIM.  I entered all my 
appointments with date and time formatted as YYYY-MM-DD-HH-mm and 
sorted entries on the first 16 digits.  Because I was using an 
outliner I could add an extensive organized and organizable notes to 
comments to appointment. 

Crude by todays standards, but it was a God send at the time.
121

From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 6:37am
Subject: Links [Bookmarks in Yahoo speak]

 
You might want to add a link to your home page.  I am sure there are 
other links that the members would find useful.  I just have not been 
around long enough to suggest them.
122

From: (unknown)
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?

 
Thanks for the response. Hope to see the categories and DB4
note filters sometime. As for the inlining of dates and other
columns:

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	It could be done this way, but doesn't this destroy the 
> document structure? (ie: Text indenting at different levels, 
> so that you cannot immediately view how far indented something
> is, without thinking about it for a sec)? I could perhaps make 
> an option to put certain things on  another
> line.. *shrug* (like progress bar below target date, or something)

Sorry, I guess I didn't explain this v well... 
Let me try to make an ASCII example:

v 1 o Test entry with a long  --/--
 name 
 - o Child                31/01
 - o Another child with   22/02
 a longer name --- i
 n fact, much, much 
 longer       

Here, the first 'v' is supposed to be the arrow icon, the '1'
is a priority, and the 'o' is a check circle, etc. This view
has a date column on the right, which takes up a bit of space,
and isn't needed for all the entries (I didn't enter this into
Shadow, so the line breaks are just a guess...) But the space
can be reclaimed if the list is rendered as:

v 1 o Test entry with a long name
 - o [31/01] Child                
 - o [22/02] Another child with
 a longer name --- in fact,
 much, much longer

The same "in-lining" could be used for progress bars. I guess
this isn't easy to do, because the places where pen taps have to
activate the progress bars or date pickers are now no longer in
a simple column... Also there's the question of what to do when
an item has no date (blank as above, or include a small calendar
icon?). Still, I thought I'd ask anyway... :)

Thanks,

 - Ian.

From: ianf@e...
123

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 11:53am
Subject: Re: Still more ideas....

 
> > 1. Inter-Shadow links on a per-record basis
> > Instead of linking to a Shadow database, one should be able to 
link 
> > to a specific topic in a selected database, i.e. the database 
opens 
> > on selection and jumps to the linked item (on top? highlighted?).
> 
> 	This is planned, but I've not determined a good UI way to do 
it; I
> was thinking of eventually supporting split-screen, so you could 
open a
> second list, and then linking would be an easy tap, operation tap. 
But
> you've given me an idea.. maybe have a "link to other item" option, 
and
> you pick a shadow list, and then it lists off all the top-level-
items on
> that list so that you can pick one to link to. Not a fine 
granularity, but
> not bad. Theres a lot of ideras in this boat though.. so I might 
leave it
> for awhile, so that when I get to it, we can go and make a lot of 
good
> task-dependancy decisions at once.
> 
> > A "Back" button should be provided.
> 
> 	A "recently visited files" list will be added soon.. maybe 
onto
> the end of the View popmenu, or as another popmenu, or somethign. 
So you
> can jump to any of the last visited 5 lists or something.
> 
> > The Tap and Hold could be extended so that source items would be 
> > visible or even selectable.
> 
> 	Source items?
> 

My idea was to provide a double-linked structure to enable the "way 
back"

---- Screen for MyFile DB:
o MySourceItem     ->

(The Item Options Popup displays:

----------------------
->AnotherShadowFile/AnotherItem
  Item Options
----------------------
)

----Screen for AnotherShadowFile DB:
o AnotherItem     <-

(The left-pointing arrow indicates "Source" items. Either the Item 
Options popup displays

----------------------
<-MyFile/MySourceItem
  Item Options
----------------------

or the tap-and-hold screen of "Another Item" displays

------------------------------
Target Date:    ...
Start Date:     ...
Finish Date:    ...
Link:           ...
Source Link:    MyFile/MyItem
DB Links:       ...
------------------------------
)


> > Top favourite, of course, would be selection of records out of 
other 
> > dbs. I didn't have a too close look into Palm's API, but wouldn't 
it 
> > be possible to identify "foreign" record ids out of a "Find" 
result 
> > and pass this back to a foreign app somehow? Just thinking...
> 
> 	There are lots of possibilities.. I've just not gotten into 
that
> yet, since its a big step. I'd like to do it whole hog, and not half
> way. So I'm working on polishing other open-ended items first (like
> atggign and categortizing items, global find, better filters, etc).
> 

very much agreed :)
124

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 0:08pm
Subject: Re: My Two Cents Worth

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:
> 
> > 1-Could the Bold button, wherever you end up putting it, toggle 
the 
> > bold, even if you chose "Always bold title". Also , please leave 
it 
> > on the details page, wether you put it on the options page or not.
> 
> 	Hmm. Opinions? Would this qualift as
> "usually-consistant-but-not-always"? :)
> 

It would be consistant if the Bold button would disappear from the 
screen when "Always Bold" is selected from the display preferences.

Maybe we find a solution if we reconsider the original intention (I 
wasn't Shadow user then). Was it to distinct titles from inline 
notes? Then, the request to toggle "bold" per item would be a 
violation of the separation principle. Later, the toggle mode might 
have been considered an option to differentiate items from other 
items in the list manually (i.e. "important" vs "not important"), as 
the highlight menu does for given conditions automatically.

Two conflicting goals if both use the same layout representation. 
Other idea: What if the display preference "Always bold title" would 
be replaced by "Distinct title and note", and would lead to another 
optical distinction, e.g. a frame drawn around the expanded note 
text? 

Then, both goals (individual highlighting _and_ title/note 
distinction) could be fulfilled....

Now its $0.04 :)


> > Well, that's all I can think of right now. Except to again 
complement 
> > Jeff and to thank him for being so accessable and responsive to 
our 
> > comments, thanks.
> 
> 	Thanks :) The way I see it.. it takes time, but not *that* 
much
> time, to be responsive and available. And its certainly a better
> experience for all of us, so is worth doing.  Now if only fewer
> developers, providers, companies, etc were less lazy :/
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
125

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 0:38pm
Subject: Maxtrix organisation

 
idea contest:
How do Shadow users solve the cross-categorzing problem?

E.g. one category "Travel", sureley has a list "Links" with URLs 
being of interest when you want to travel.

But, having a category "Links" as well, you could be tempted to have 
a "Travel" list in there with (hopefully :) ) the same contents....

- Duplicate items?
- Create Link items in one list, pointing to the other?
- Create some kind of "overlay", pointing to the same data always?

It's a redundancy problem I never solved really with hierarchical 
outliners, mind map tools etc.

-martin
126

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 0:30pm
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., peter.grierson@s... wrote:
> 
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display 
the 
> year on the line below Month-Day.
> 
>    MM-DD
>    YYYY
> 

Good idea to include the year. 
However, I would prefer this as an display preference option ("Toggle 
Year Display in Dates"), and would display the year in one line. 


Some proposals in the discussion list mention a second line for 
additional information - I wouldn't advise. You lose space for 
the "content" unconditionally, even if the meta-data is of no 
interest in a specific situation, and the layout gets fuzzy.


> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no 
> indication it was over a year a way.
> 
> ======
> Date Format:
> I am all for an inline display of the dates.  But I would ask that 
> YYYY-MM-DD &/or YYYY/MM-DD be an options. 
> 

Think about other date representations, europeans do it "reverse".
My Palm shows "1.02" today when dates are displayed in the list.

> Higher numbers are always later. Visa versa for lower numbers.
> 
> Comment: My first use of an outliner was as a PIM.  I entered all 
my 
> appointments with date and time formatted as YYYY-MM-DD-HH-mm and 
> sorted entries on the first 16 digits.  Because I was using an 
> outliner I could add an extensive organized and organizable notes 
to 
> comments to appointment. 
> 
> Crude by todays standards, but it was a God send at the time.
128

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 1:28pm
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format

 
Hmm. This gets complicated by localized preferences. So shoudl I
add an option to include year in the target date column? Sounds like a
good request, so I could add it.

		jeff

On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:

> 
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the 
> year on the line below Month-Day.
> 
>    MM-DD
>    YYYY
> 
> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no 
> indication it was over a year a way.
> 
> ======
> Date Format:
> I am all for an inline display of the dates.  But I would ask that 
> YYYY-MM-DD &/or YYYY/MM-DD be an options. 
> 
> Higher numbers are always later. Visa versa for lower numbers.
> 
> Comment: My first use of an outliner was as a PIM.  I entered all my 
> appointments with date and time formatted as YYYY-MM-DD-HH-mm and 
> sorted entries on the first 16 digits.  Because I was using an 
> outliner I could add an extensive organized and organizable notes to 
> comments to appointment. 
> 
> Crude by todays standards, but it was a God send at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
129

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Links [Bookmarks in Yahoo speak]

 
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:

> You might want to add a link to your home page.  I am sure there are 
> other links that the members would find useful.  I just have not been 
> around long enough to suggest them.

	A link from egroups/yahoo to my homepages? A good idea I think. Do
most peopel come across the mailing list from egroups/yahoo, or from my
webpage to start with?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
130

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 1:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: My Two Cents Worth

 
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> It would be consistant if the Bold button would disappear from the 
> screen when "Always Bold" is selected from the display preferences.

	heh.

> Maybe we find a solution if we reconsider the original intention (I 
> wasn't Shadow user then). Was it to distinct titles from inline 
> notes? Then, the request to toggle "bold" per item would be a 
> violation of the separation principle. Later, the toggle mode might 
> have been considered an option to differentiate items from other 
> items in the list manually (i.e. "important" vs "not important"), as 
> the highlight menu does for given conditions automatically.

	The original intention was two-fold; the one you missed was that
bold is easier to read for those with "mature" (or bleery tired!) eyes. So
a few people requested it to help them read items. At the same time, it is
useful for distinguishing title-text fro notes, for people who use many
and long notes.. like journalists or essay writers or book authors or the
like, where they might be scrolling up or down 5 screens to find a
title. Bolding them all is helpful.

	The [B] request is a request to bold an item not normally
bolded. These operations overlap, but I have no problem with that. ie: On
a tight list, notes all collapses, with all titles bold, the display is
muddy, and [B] active coudl de-bold an item, thus providing an
anti-hilight of sorts. But it makes sense to my mind to have the two ways
bold an item. If either one is true, bold it. *shrug*

> Two conflicting goals if both use the same layout representation. 
> Other idea: What if the display preference "Always bold title" would 
> be replaced by "Distinct title and note", and would lead to another 
> optical distinction, e.g. a frame drawn around the expanded note 
> text? 

	Not a good use of space, I think. But a different goal than you
thought.

> Now its $0.04 :)

	I'll be bankrupt soon :)

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
131

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Maxtrix organisation

 
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> idea contest:
> How do Shadow users solve the cross-categorzing problem?
> 
> E.g. one category "Travel", sureley has a list "Links" with URLs 
> being of interest when you want to travel.
> 
> But, having a category "Links" as well, you could be tempted to have 
> a "Travel" list in there with (hopefully :) ) the same contents....

	To tell you the truth, I usually just duplicate the data myself,
due to lazyness :) You coudl create links, or keep a bunch of Shadow files
with links back and forth. Suggestions have been made.. to link to
another list's *items*, so that you could jump to specific items. This
will be possible to implement soon. Its not a full solution, but woudl be
handy to simulate it in this smaller PDA context. A full solution would be
for two lists to share the same meta-list somewhere. Thats complex
though..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
132

From: Jim Robbins  <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 2:45pm
Subject: Re: Relative vs absolute dates

 
To choose the relative date I would have something similar to your current
date chooser. So, the choices could be No Time, 1 day, 2 days, 3 days, 1
week, choose date.

Jim


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <shadow-discuss@j...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Relative vs absolute dates


>
> A few people have brought this up recently. What sort of relative
> options are needed? (ie: Are relative items always short, ot can they be
> long? Do I need a fast selector with 1,2,5,7 days, 1, 2, 3 months, 1,2, 3
> weeks, and "pick from comprehensive" which would allow oyu to specify
> arbitrary dayes/units?
>
> Its an interesting idea. I've CC'd shadow-discuss mailing list
> (as well as forum) to get maximum exposure..
>
> jeff
>
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:
>
> > I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use
> > relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have
> > several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a
> > completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task
> > and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get
> > rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the
> > following tasks.
> >
> > What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n
> > days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date
> > is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be
> > set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until
> > it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based
> > off the task duration) would be set.
> >
> > For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and
> > have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The
> > active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target
> > drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a
> > relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance,
> > assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user
> > changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to
> > 3 days from now.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
133

From: Jim Robbins  <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format

 
----- Original Message -----
From: <peter.grierson@s...>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:33 AM
>
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the
> year on the line below Month-Day.
>
>    MM-DD
>    YYYY
>
> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no
> indication it was over a year a way.

This would be a good use for color or font formatting (bold, italics,
underline). Change the color or style of the text when the date isn't in the
current year.

Jim
134

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 6:27pm
Subject: Announcing a new mailing list.. Shadow-desktop!

 
Shadow's companion applications are not available to the public
yet, and are only now getting ready to be handed out to alpha testers. But
as normal, I believe the user should be involved early and often so that
products are designed for them and not for me. If you'd like to talk about
or help create the desktop conduit or application, join this new mailing
list.

	http://shadow.skeleton.org/mailman/listinfo/shadow-desktop

	Immediate goals will be discussing the conduit. The conduits goal
in life is to syncronize your Shadow Plan handheld lists to your
desktop. A tool included with the conduit will allow export of the desktop
data into files usable by other desktop applications (like MSWord or
MSProject, and others you suggest), as well as importing the changed files
back in. This should allow for a simple-few-step way of editting your
Shadow Plan files on your desktop. 

	Of course, once the conduit is stable and useful, I'll be working
on the Shadow Desktop application itself. But I'd like you to be able to
use existing applications in the mean time (or forever) as you see fit.

	Join the mailing list and help me out!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
135

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 2:26am
Subject: Wish for Shadow (fwd)

 
Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming items
which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think about.

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

---------- Forwarded message ----------

After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer application, I
can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this email.

I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow can
handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of the
agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
someone else to do.

If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, possibly in
place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on the item
could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
'action item".

It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me to
select a person, and see all of the action items that had been assigned to
that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one meetings.
(Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items for that
person from many different meetings.)

To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is to
start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves off all
items checked as completed, but carries forward those not completed. It
should also add action items from the previous meeting as new agenda items
for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional items and
have a new agenda.

It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with MY NAME
on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, so I
could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of the
meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to do" and
calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I would like
to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do lists.)

One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I meet
with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action item be
given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that would show
up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to later make
the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar program
such as a floating event would be useful.

Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a printed
agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a desktop
machine, that could be easily handled.

If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and follow up
on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
Business runs on meetings.
136

From: Doug Roberts  <doug@b...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 3:42pm
Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)

 
As I read through many of these suggestions, I'm struck more and more how
close they resemble the Windows Application: ECCO. ECCO is no longer
supported, but developed a loyal and dedicated following s an outline-based
PIM. I don't know if it is even possible to buy it anymore. It could
accomplish most of what is requested below. Did anyone use this program
besides me? I now use Outlook, but finding Shadow reminds me of the many
features I miss from ECCO.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:27 PM
To: shadow-discuss@j...
Cc: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Wish for Shadow (fwd)



	Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming items
which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think about.

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

---------- Forwarded message ----------

After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer application, I
can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this email.

I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow can
handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of the
agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
someone else to do.

If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, possibly in
place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on the item
could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
'action item".

It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me to
select a person, and see all of the action items that had been assigned to
that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one meetings.
(Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items for that
person from many different meetings.)

To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is to
start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves off all
items checked as completed, but carries forward those not completed. It
should also add action items from the previous meeting as new agenda items
for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional items and
have a new agenda.

It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with MY NAME
on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, so I
could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of the
meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to do" and
calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I would like
to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do lists.)

One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I meet
with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action item be
given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that would show
up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to later make
the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar program
such as a floating event would be useful.

Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a printed
agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a desktop
machine, that could be easily handled.

If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and follow up
on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
Business runs on meetings.



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
137

From: kencn@a...
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 6:16pm
Subject: Some relatively minor suggestions

 
Is it possible to add one more level to the auto-numbering options in 
the List preferences.  I seem to have a number of outlines that go 4 
levels deep.  I promise not to ask for 5 levels after you add a 
fourth.

Also on the auto-numbering function, how about the option to specifiy
a dash as well as bullets (or a user-defined bullet character).  
Definitely not a biggie but I like to mix up bullet characters.  

Having the export function include the numbers or bullets would be 
nice as well.  I'm looking to the conduit for more comprehensive 
export needs but including numbering on the palm side export would be 
helpful.

How about the ability to define an outline level as a "heading-only" 
level.  For instance, when I import todos, the category headings have 
priorities and check boxes and I'd just as soon not have those 
displayed on those top-level entries.  I'm sure many people want
those attributes displayed so it would need to be an option - maybe 
defined in the List Preferences on a level by level basis like the 
auto-numbering.  It could also be handled like Progect does by
letting each outline entry have its own format but that is more 
flexibility and complexity than I think is really necessary. 

Maybe this has come up before but I'm not sure I understand why 
Tasklists have both check boxes and progress bars.  They seem
somewhat redundant and the checkboxes take up valuable screen space.  
I realize this can be handled with a custom list so maybe it's not a 
big deal but it seems like only having the progress bars is a more 
reasonable default.

Anyway, that's it for now.  Looking forward to the conduit and the 
next release of your brilliant app.

Ken
138

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 7:08pm
Subject: Re: Some relatively minor suggestions

 
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> Is it possible to add one more level to the auto-numbering options in 
> the List preferences.  I seem to have a number of outlines that go 4 
> levels deep.  I promise not to ask for 5 levels after you add a 
> fourth.

	Eventually I will be implementing a suggestions from months
ago; to add a list pref allowing you to lock all levels to the same. So
you'll be able to predefine 1,2,3, but for other levels you could have a
lock, and when you change an item on any level 4 (say), all level 4 items
would change to that same formatting. (As opposed to now, where each
sublevel > 3 has its own scheme)

> Also on the auto-numbering function, how about the option to specifiy
> a dash as well as bullets (or a user-defined bullet character).  
> Definitely not a biggie but I like to mix up bullet characters.  

	Hmm. So inside of a sublevel, you'd like to have different kinds
of bullets? I knew that was coming eventually ;)

	Someone draw up some small bullet images, and maybe I'll do it ;)

> Having the export function include the numbers or bullets would be 
> nice as well.  I'm looking to the conduit for more comprehensive 
> export needs but including numbering on the palm side export would be 
> helpful.

	Yeah; the current import/export stuff is very handy, but leaves
somethign to be desired. The conduit should offer many more options, and I
will enhance the on-palm options.

> How about the ability to define an outline level as a "heading-only" 
> level.  For instance, when I import todos, the category headings have 
> priorities and check boxes and I'd just as soon not have those 
> displayed on those top-level entries.  I'm sure many people want
> those attributes displayed so it would need to be an option - maybe 
> defined in the List Preferences on a level by level basis like the 
> auto-numbering.  It could also be handled like Progect does by
> letting each outline entry have its own format but that is more 
> flexibility and complexity than I think is really necessary. 

	I will be adding a mixed-view system soon; currently you can
customize the view, or chose an overall view. I'll be adding the ability
to override an item with a different view (including cusotm views!), which
ought to be more flexibility than anyone will know what to do with :)

> Maybe this has come up before but I'm not sure I understand why 
> Tasklists have both check boxes and progress bars.  They seem
> somewhat redundant and the checkboxes take up valuable screen space.  
> I realize this can be handled with a custom list so maybe it's not a 
> big deal but it seems like only having the progress bars is a more 
> reasonable default.

	Its nice to know how far an item is. Eventually it is completed
and checked off.. but it snice to see how far along various things
are. Checking them off is an easy way to filter them out.

		TiredJeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
139

From: kencn@a...
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Some relatively minor suggestions

 
Jeff,

> > Also on the auto-numbering function, how about the option to 
> > specifiy a dash as well as bullets (or a user-defined bullet
> > character).  Definitely not a biggie but I like to mix up bullet
> > characters.  
> 
> 	Hmm. So inside of a sublevel, you'd like to have different 
> kinds of bullets? I knew that was coming eventually ;)

Actually I was just looking for different bullets at different levels 
- not mixed bullets within the same sub-level.  Purely for cosmetic 
reasons.  Mixing bullets within a sublevel might be useful if the 
various bullets were being used to signify something but then I'd 
probably prefer using Datebk4 (or ActionNames) icons like Progect 
does.

The rest of the stuff sounds great, particularly the mixed view 
support.  

> 		TiredJeff

Gee, I wonder why...  I'm thinking of posting my next suggestion at 
3am just to see if you'll answer that in 30 minutes or less too.

Thanks again.
Ken
140

From: BYRON E ALLGOOD  <1POPOLO@P...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 8:20pm
Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)

 
Yessss,
Jeff this would be AAAwesome ,Pleaese find a way to impliment this
functionality!!!!
What When Where are covered
"Who" issues are so often overlooked.
Meeting follow-up, task delegation, tool. Yes.

-----Original Message-----
From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:44 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Digest Number 23



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com


------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Relative vs absolute dates
           From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
      2. Re: Date Display / Date Format
           From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
      3. Announcing a new mailing list.. Shadow-desktop!
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
      4. Wish for Shadow (fwd)
           From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:45:29 -0500
   From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
Subject: Re: Relative vs absolute dates

To choose the relative date I would have something similar to your current
date chooser. So, the choices could be No Time, 1 day, 2 days, 3 days, 1
week, choose date.

Jim


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <shadow-discuss@j...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Relative vs absolute dates


>
> A few people have brought this up recently. What sort of relative
> options are needed? (ie: Are relative items always short, ot can they be
> long? Do I need a fast selector with 1,2,5,7 days, 1, 2, 3 months, 1,2, 3
> weeks, and "pick from comprehensive" which would allow oyu to specify
> arbitrary dayes/units?
>
> Its an interesting idea. I've CC'd shadow-discuss mailing list
> (as well as forum) to get maximum exposure..
>
> jeff
>
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:
>
> > I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use
> > relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have
> > several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a
> > completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task
> > and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get
> > rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the
> > following tasks.
> >
> > What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n
> > days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date
> > is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be
> > set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until
> > it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based
> > off the task duration) would be set.
> >
> > For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and
> > have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The
> > active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target
> > drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a
> > relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance,
> > assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user
> > changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to
> > 3 days from now.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:51:38 -0500
   From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format

----- Original Message -----
From: <peter.grierson@s...>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:33 AM
>
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the
> year on the line below Month-Day.
>
>    MM-DD
>    YYYY
>
> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no
> indication it was over a year a way.

This would be a good use for color or font formatting (bold, italics,
underline). Change the color or style of the text when the date isn't in the
current year.

Jim




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:27:41 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Announcing a new mailing list.. Shadow-desktop!


	Shadow's companion applications are not available to the public
yet, and are only now getting ready to be handed out to alpha testers. But
as normal, I believe the user should be involved early and often so that
products are designed for them and not for me. If you'd like to talk about
or help create the desktop conduit or application, join this new mailing
list.

	http://shadow.skeleton.org/mailman/listinfo/shadow-desktop

	Immediate goals will be discussing the conduit. The conduits goal
in life is to syncronize your Shadow Plan handheld lists to your
desktop. A tool included with the conduit will allow export of the desktop
data into files usable by other desktop applications (like MSWord or
MSProject, and others you suggest), as well as importing the changed files
back in. This should allow for a simple-few-step way of editting your
Shadow Plan files on your desktop.

	Of course, once the conduit is stable and useful, I'll be working
on the Shadow Desktop application itself. But I'd like you to be able to
use existing applications in the mean time (or forever) as you see fit.

	Join the mailing list and help me out!

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:26:39 -0500 (EST)
   From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Wish for Shadow (fwd)


	Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming items
which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think about.

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

---------- Forwarded message ----------

After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer application, I
can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this email.

I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow can
handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of the
agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
someone else to do.

If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, possibly in
place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on the item
could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
'action item".

It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me to
select a person, and see all of the action items that had been assigned to
that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one meetings.
(Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items for that
person from many different meetings.)

To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is to
start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves off all
items checked as completed, but carries forward those not completed. It
should also add action items from the previous meeting as new agenda items
for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional items and
have a new agenda.

It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with MY NAME
on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, so I
could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of the
meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to do" and
calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I would like
to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do lists.)

One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I meet
with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action item be
given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that would show
up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to later make
the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar program
such as a floating event would be useful.

Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a printed
agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a desktop
machine, that could be easily handled.

If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and follow up
on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
Business runs on meetings.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
141

From: Peter Bulthuis  <bulthuis@c...>
Date: Sun Feb 4, 2001 1:41am
Subject: Icons in Shadow

 
Hello.
I would like to have icons in Shadow, just like Datebk4. It gives you a
quicker view to a todo-item what it means: i.e. a phonecall, an e-mail or a
meeting. Further, it would be nice when you can filter on a specific icon,
so you have only the phonecall-todo's in your display.
Maybe it's possible to use the DateBk3-items, so you can link them easy to
DateBk4.

Peter B
142

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Feb 4, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: Re: Icons in Shadow

 
On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Peter Bulthuis wrote:

> I would like to have icons in Shadow, just like Datebk4. It gives you a
> quicker view to a todo-item what it means: i.e. a phonecall, an e-mail or a
> meeting. Further, it would be nice when you can filter on a specific icon,
> so you have only the phonecall-todo's in your display.
> Maybe it's possible to use the DateBk3-items, so you can link them easy to
> DateBk4.

	This is planned; funny, I got a bunch of emails yesterday about
this :) I'm not sure if Action Names publishes their formats, but CESD
made available the format for his icon files, so I'll likely add support
for them soon. They'd be fun, at any rate.. I'm just not sure about
colour<->B&W mappings and such.. (ie: If you have a colour icon, and then
view it on mono display.. what happens? Or is it a separate set of icon
files for different depth devices?)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
143

From: cfralick@i...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 3:42am
Subject: Just a thought.

 
I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for 
something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One thing 
I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any 
suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything 
except it's the first thing people see when the look at their 
launcher.
144

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 3:59am
Subject: Re: Just a thought.

 
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:

> I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for 
> something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One thing 
> I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any 
> suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything 
> except it's the first thing people see when the look at their 
> launcher. 

	Mainly due to their being B&W, grayscale, and colour icon sets,
and my not being a fantastic pixel artist :) Should I have a cool
logo? Maybe, but I've not decided on any of the ones I've come up with,
and they wouldnt' scale down that small anyway...

	Hmm.. it is somethign to think about though :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
145

From: Doug Roberts  <doug@b...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 4:08am
Subject: RE: Just a thought.

 
I think the application icon is very good -- don't change it!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:00 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Just a thought.


On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:

> I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for 
> something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One thing 
> I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any 
> suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything 
> except it's the first thing people see when the look at their 
> launcher. 

	Mainly due to their being B&W, grayscale, and colour icon sets,
and my not being a fantastic pixel artist :) Should I have a cool
logo? Maybe, but I've not decided on any of the ones I've come up with,
and they wouldnt' scale down that small anyway...

	Hmm.. it is somethign to think about though :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
146

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 4:44am
Subject: Re: Icons in Shadow

 
db4 does not support color icons - it lets you colorize b&w icons.
CESD has posted about the difficulty of maintaining backward 
compatibility, and decided against implementing color icons at this 
time.

tommyb

I'm just not sure about colour<->B&W mappings and such.. (ie: If you 
have a colour icon, and then view it on mono display.. what happens? 
Or is it a separate set of icon files for different depth devices?)
> 
> 		jeff
147

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:50am
Subject: Re: Just a thought.

 
I like it, too...

Maybe we should facilitate the "Polls" section of groups.yahoo.com? :)

Martin

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:
> 
> > I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for 
> > something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One 
thing 
> > I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any 
> > suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything 
> > except it's the first thing people see when the look at their 
> > launcher. 
> 
> 	Mainly due to their being B&W, grayscale, and colour icon 
sets,
> and my not being a fantastic pixel artist :) Should I have a cool
> logo? Maybe, but I've not decided on any of the ones I've come up 
with,
> and they wouldnt' scale down that small anyway...
> 
> 	Hmm.. it is somethign to think about though :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
148

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:54am
Subject: Shadow Startup mode

 
Just a quick question about the way the application is started - do 
you something unusual there?

I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel that 
shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show Shadow 
at all.

Since I use this feature often, e.g. to toggle between the last two 
apps, this is somewhat annoying....

Any ideas?

Martin
149

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:55am
Subject: Time Attribute

 
Jeff, do you maintain creation times as well as dates? It would be an 
interesting option to display as well, e.g. when it comes to track 
events in a protocol.

Martin
150

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:57am
Subject: How to open notes

 
This might have been discussed before, but I missed it - it would be 
a great improvement if expanded notes in list view mode would lead to 
an opened note editor, if double-tapped. The current reaction is to 
open the item title editor.

Martin
151

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 8:00am
Subject: Display preferences as file attribute

 
I would like to see all of the display option as an attribute set per 
_database_, not as a global setting. This would allow to display each 
different type of notes in an appropriate way.

(this is the last one for now, promised :)

Just out of curiosity - Jeff, how do you keep track of all 
those "change requests"?

Martin
152

From: Peter Grierson  <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 11:06am
Subject: Re: Wish for Shadow [ECCO]

 
Several months ago I check with Netmanage on progress with finding a buyer
for ECCO.  They said they were still looking.

At that time, it was still possible to order ECCO (with no Support).

     http://www.netmanage.com/




Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:42:36 -0700
   From: "Doug Roberts" <doug@b...>
Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)

As I read through many of these suggestions, I'm struck more and more how
close they resemble the Windows Application: ECCO. ECCO is no longer
supported, but developed a loyal and dedicated following s an outline-based
PIM. I don't know if it is even possible to buy it anymore. It could
accomplish most of what is requested below. Did anyone use this program
besides me? I now use Outlook, but finding Shadow reminds me of the many
features I miss from ECCO.
153

From: Jim Robbins  <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 0:47pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
> I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel that
> shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show Shadow
> at all.

That's odd, since I use AppDA, and it also lets you switch between the last
two applications or between a "history" of the last n apps. In both of those
app launchers, ShadowPlan appears and works properly. It shows up as
"Shadow", not "ShadowPlan".

Jim
154

From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 1:15pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
It might be due to a changed parameter interpretation of LaunchEm App 
Hack. My observation: Some apps are listed with their application 
names, some other (e.g. ListMaker, PeanutPress reader) display the 
current database instead! 

Seems like App Hack looks for the first parameter at startup, the 
setting of which is up to the developer...

Martin


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...> wrote:
> > I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel 
that
> > shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show 
Shadow
> > at all.
> 
> That's odd, since I use AppDA, and it also lets you switch between 
the last
> two applications or between a "history" of the last n apps. In both 
of those
> app launchers, ShadowPlan appears and works properly. It shows up as
> "Shadow", not "ShadowPlan".
> 
> Jim
155

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 1:23pm
Subject: Re: Re: Just a thought.

 
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> I like it, too...
> Maybe we should facilitate the "Polls" section of groups.yahoo.com? :)

	hehe ;) I have it disabled right now, since I figured I'd just get
hammered with 200 people posting 200 polls that are really feture requests
;)

		jeff

> 
> Martin
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:
> > 
> > > I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for 
> > > something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One 
> thing 
> > > I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any 
> > > suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything 
> > > except it's the first thing people see when the look at their 
> > > launcher. 
> > 
> > 	Mainly due to their being B&W, grayscale, and colour icon 
> sets,
> > and my not being a fantastic pixel artist :) Should I have a cool
> > logo? Maybe, but I've not decided on any of the ones I've come up 
> with,
> > and they wouldnt' scale down that small anyway...
> > 
> > 	Hmm.. it is somethign to think about though :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
156

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 1:25pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> Just a quick question about the way the application is started - do 
> you something unusual there?

	Nope; startup magic is all ripped right out of the Palm "skeleton
code", to be compliant.

> I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel that 
> shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show Shadow 
> at all.
> 
> Since I use this feature often, e.g. to toggle between the last two 
> apps, this is somewhat annoying....

	Strange! I wonder what function it hooks..

	You'd think it woudl hook on the launch requestor.. hmm.

	Bug me again in awhile (once conduits are done) and I'll do a
trace of LaunchEmHack :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
157

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 1:26pm
Subject: Re: Time Attribute

 
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> Jeff, do you maintain creation times as well as dates? It would be an 
> interesting option to display as well, e.g. when it comes to track 
> events in a protocol.

	I keep creation dates, but by request (long ago) shut them out of
the displays in favour of "more useful" information. Most or all of the
creation time coe is still there, but the values aren't displayed (maybe
on glance?). I oculd reenable them at a later date.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
158

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 1:27pm
Subject: Re: How to open notes

 
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> This might have been discussed before, but I missed it - it would be 
> a great improvement if expanded notes in list view mode would lead to 
> an opened note editor, if double-tapped. The current reaction is to 
> open the item title editor.

	Still on my todo list; focusing on conduit has pushed other things
back (sorry.. I don't wish to fork my development tree into a "1.4.0 plus
stuff" and "current + stuff", and end up missing copying "stuff" between
one of the trees)

		Jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
159

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Display preferences as file attribute

 
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:

> I would like to see all of the display option as an attribute set per 
> _database_, not as a global setting. This would allow to display each 
> different type of notes in an appropriate way.

	Some things will become database-local later on.. like the
"supress word wrap", etc. You'll notice that right now there is a Custom
button, but not Opt button on the list prefs window. Thats where they'll
go.

> Just out of curiosity - Jeff, how do you keep track of all 
> those "change requests"?

	In a barbaric way; you would think I'd use Shadow, right? But due
to volume of change requests, and the number of fixes or changes I do in a
batch, I always ended up getting the list out of sync with reality. So I
keep a tall stack of paper notes and scraps, and scratch the ideas
off. Its sad really. If I had half a wit, I'd spent the 20 minutes to
write up a perl CGI to let me check things off on a webpage, and then
everyone coudl see my todo list :P

	So little time..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
160

From: pollyq@m...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 6:39pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
Interesting.  I use SwitchHack, and it works fine.

--PollyQ

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., martin_jahr@h... wrote:
> Just a quick question about the way the application is started - do 
> you something unusual there?
> 
> I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel 
that 
> shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show 
Shadow 
> at all.
> 
> Since I use this feature often, e.g. to toggle between the last two 
> apps, this is somewhat annoying....
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Martin
161

From: tommyb@i...
Date: Tue Feb 6, 2001 3:43am
Subject: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
McPhling also correctly reports Shadow in its history, and last 2 
apps.  Plus, it's freeware and seems bug-free.......

tommyb


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...> wrote:
> > I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel 
that
> > shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show 
Shadow
> > at all.
> 
> That's odd, since I use AppDA, and it also lets you switch between 
the last
> two applications or between a "history" of the last n apps. In both 
of those
> app launchers, ShadowPlan appears and works properly. It shows up as
> "Shadow", not "ShadowPlan".
> 
> Jim
162

From: bstryd@a...
Date: Tue Feb 6, 2001 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Wish for Shadow [ECCO]

 
My (almost) entire reason for going to a palm was my need to replace 
ECCO. It was a super organizer and much more. I agree with Doug, the 
Shadow wish lists sound a lot like ECCO and I, too, miss it big time. 
I believe I have settled on Datebk 4 and Shadow (as it develops) for 
my "lifeline" replacement, but until the back and forth linking is 
created and shared categories can happen, I will just muddle through.

BTW -- congrats to Jeff on an excellent and elegant program and fast 
paced advances. And, like the developer of Datebk, you both are open 
and accessible and we endusers greatly appreciate it.

Bruce


--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Peter Grierson" <peter.grierson@s...> 
wrote:
> Several months ago I check with Netmanage on progress with finding 
a buyer
> for ECCO.  They said they were still looking.
> 
> At that time, it was still possible to order ECCO (with no Support).
> 
>      http://www.netmanage.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:42:36 -0700
>    From: "Doug Roberts" <doug@b...>
> Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)
> 
> As I read through many of these suggestions, I'm struck more and 
more how
> close they resemble the Windows Application: ECCO. ECCO is no longer
> supported, but developed a loyal and dedicated following s an 
outline-based
> PIM. I don't know if it is even possible to buy it anymore. It could
> accomplish most of what is requested below. Did anyone use this 
program
> besides me? I now use Outlook, but finding Shadow reminds me of the 
many
> features I miss from ECCO.
163

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Tue Feb 6, 2001 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Re: Wish for Shadow [ECCO]

 
On Tue, 6 Feb 2001 bstryd@a... wrote:

> My (almost) entire reason for going to a palm was my need to replace 
> ECCO. It was a super organizer and much more. I agree with Doug, the 
> Shadow wish lists sound a lot like ECCO and I, too, miss it big time. 

	Whats fascinating about Outliners, is everyone has a passion for
one; everyone gets misty eyed over their favourites. I thought I was the
only one who couldn't get by without a hierarchical list handler :)

	I of course have a huge problem -- I'll be porting Shadow to every
future PDA for the rest of my life. Thats a lot of work :)

> BTW -- congrats to Jeff on an excellent and elegant program and fast 
> paced advances. And, like the developer of Datebk, you both are open 
> and accessible and we endusers greatly appreciate it.

	Thanks. I'm trying hard to show people what good developers are
like; theres many jaded users out there, and rightly so :/

		jeff

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Peter Grierson" <peter.grierson@s...> 
> wrote:
> > Several months ago I check with Netmanage on progress with finding 
> a buyer
> > for ECCO.  They said they were still looking.
> > 
> > At that time, it was still possible to order ECCO (with no Support).
> > 
> >      http://www.netmanage.com/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:42:36 -0700
> >    From: "Doug Roberts" <doug@b...>
> > Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)
> > 
> > As I read through many of these suggestions, I'm struck more and 
> more how
> > close they resemble the Windows Application: ECCO. ECCO is no longer
> > supported, but developed a loyal and dedicated following s an 
> outline-based
> > PIM. I don't know if it is even possible to buy it anymore. It could
> > accomplish most of what is requested below. Did anyone use this 
> program
> > besides me? I now use Outlook, but finding Shadow reminds me of the 
> many
> > features I miss from ECCO.
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
164

From: rshupe@i...
Date: Tue Feb 6, 2001 10:56pm
Subject: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
-Just my two-cents worth but Shadow starts in Phlegm Hack with no 
problem. Phlegm Hack is freeware and also includes the list view icon 
with the name of the program in its lists.
-- In shadow-discuss@y..., martin_jahr@h... wrote:
> Just a quick question about the way the application is started - do 
> you something unusual there?
> 
> I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel 
that 
> shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show 
Shadow 
> at all.
> 
> Since I use this feature often, e.g. to toggle between the last two 
> apps, this is somewhat annoying....
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Martin
165

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 4:00am
Subject: Re: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
On Tue, 6 Feb 2001 rshupe@i... wrote:

> -Just my two-cents worth but Shadow starts in Phlegm Hack with no 
> problem. Phlegm Hack is freeware and also includes the list view icon 
> with the name of the program in its lists.

	Try McPling instead.. Its a later version of PlegmHack, and Phlegm
has a lot of bugs that cause problems..

> -- In shadow-discuss@y..., martin_jahr@h... wrote:
> > Just a quick question about the way the application is started - do 
> > you something unusual there?
> > 
> > I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel 
> that 
> > shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show 
> Shadow 
> > at all.
> > 
> > Since I use this feature often, e.g. to toggle between the last two 
> > apps, this is somewhat annoying....
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> > 
> > Martin
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
166

From: kevinprice@u...
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 5:51am
Subject: To-Do Link to ActionNames

 
I'm new to this group and Shadow.  I've already decided this outstanding application will have a home on my Vx.

I came to the group looking to see if anyone else has mentioned a bug I'm experiencing, and I saw a thread on it.  With ActionNames selected as my preferred ToDo database link, it correctly creates the to-do in AN, but when "go to" is selected, it takes me to an existing AN Meeting rather than the newly created AN To-Do.

I saw that the developer was aware of the problem and pointed out the problem is caused by something in ActionNames, but he'd figured out a work-around.

How soon will the fix be available?  I'm eager to use Shadow for my business project management and this problem limits me from utilizing Shadow like I want (and how it's intended to function).

Again, thanks to the developer for creating such a wonderful program.

Kevin
167

From: Peter Grierson  <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 6:37am
Subject: Re: Shadow Startup mode

 
Shadow appears in Launcher III and PhlegmHack (pre) 1.4 as Shadow.
168

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 1:19pm
Subject: Re: To-Do Link to ActionNames

 
On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 kevinprice@u... wrote:

> I'm new to this group and Shadow.  I've already decided this
> outstanding application will have a home on my Vx.

> I came to the group looking to see if anyone else has mentioned a bug
> I'm experiencing, and I saw a thread on it.  With ActionNames selected
> as my preferred ToDo database link, it correctly creates the to-do in
> AN, but when "go to" is selected, it takes me to an existing AN
> Meeting rather than the newly created AN To-Do.

	This is a bug in how programs talk to each other and happens due
to the way AN does something. I'll push the workaround back up my list of
todos.

> I saw that the developer was aware of the problem and pointed out the
> problem is caused by something in ActionNames, but he'd figured out a
> work-around.

> How soon will the fix be available?  I'm eager to use Shadow for my
> business project management and this problem limits me from utilizing
> Shadow like I want (and how it's intended to function).

	This fix is planned for the 1.5 release in a few weeks, but keep
an eye on this group for announcements of any public betas. If you'd like
toget in on alphas, join shadow-test mailing list, though the alphas are
sometimes wonky.

> Again, thanks to the developer for creating such a wonderful program.

	Thanks for trying it out :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
169

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 8:11pm
Subject: About Shadow Plan

 
Life with Palm software is a strange thing.  I have been using palm 
computers since the 1000 first came out.  I have upgraded nearly the 
whole way.  I know for a fact that I have owned the 1000, the 5000, 
the palm professional (skipped the personal), then went to the palm 
V, then the palm IIIc, and now the handspring visor prism.

I have been using pilotgear.com (palmgear.com) since I first knew 
about it, which, if memory serves, was in the palm pilot 1000 days 
(back when these things were made by US Robotics).  So I have been 
using these things for a while, and have been grabbing software from 
palmgear that whole time.  I still remember when it was possible to 
do the "software browse" on palmgear, and just look at every piece of 
software for the palm.

Those days are now past, of course.  It is actually DIFFICULT to find 
all the software that is out there.  Many times I have felt that 
SURELY a piece of software must exist that does XXXXX (fill in the 
blank), but I cannot find it anywhere.  This is why palmgear is SOOO 
handy to me.  Often, I am looking at a piece of software and see that 
it isn't quite what I want, but in the REVIEW of the software, I see 
someone refer to something else.  I go look at that other program, 
and I may have just found the gem I was looking for.

The only OTHER reliable way I have found to keep up with what is out 
there is to nearly CONSTANTLY monitor the new and updated software on 
palmgear.  THAT is how I found Shadow Plan.

I have been disappointed with memo pad for a long time now.  I have 
found some truly EXCELLENT editors for the palm, but they all store 
each "file" at the same level - no directories, or anything like 
that.  I can attempt to do something of that kind by using 
categories, but this doesn't do quite what I want because OFTEN I 
want to see more than one category at a time.

In the past, I found a program called "Hi-Note".  This had a pc 
conduit called "PCHi-Note" which allowed you to edit the notes on the 
PC as well.  Hi-Note is not a particularly well written application.  
I hasn't received many updates over the years it has been out.  It 
had visual issues on my palm3C, which interestingly do not occur on 
my visor prism.  It served a purpose though, it allowed me to 
keep "memos" in a heirarchically organized list (technically it 
allows you to do graphics too, but for me personally, that hasn't 
ever been a big bonus, I use bugme for any graphic notes I need).

But Hi-Note forces my prism into black and white mode.  It is the 
ONLY app I have that does this.  If I have an alarm go off while I am 
in Hi-Note, the alarm is forced into black and white.  To be frank, 
this pisses me off.  :)

I had looked for some other programs for the palm that would help me 
with this organizational situation, and I never found any that I 
liked.  I did an INCREDIBLE amount of research before I bought Hi-
Note, and it was really the best thing I could find at the time.  The 
only thing in the running that I found recently was Progect, but, 
while an EXCELLENT project management program, it lacked some of the 
QUICK, SIMPLE list generation things I was looking for.

Then, yesterday, I found Shadow Plan on PalmGear.  I downloaded it, 
tried it, saw the website, saw the reviews, saw the documentation, 
saw the philosophy.  You know what?  I registered it.  I registered 
it for the same reason I paid money for peditPro.  I registered these 
products and spent my money on them because it looks like I am going 
to have a future in the software.  The software looks good, but it 
isn't going to be a static thing.  It is living.  It is growing.  And 
I like that.

I have been using Linux since 1991, and I have to say, I love your 
philosophy in developing Shadow Plan.  I know the traditional old 
school Linux bigot would scold you for selling your software, but the 
price is low, and I don't have any issue with it.  I -*LOVE*- Shadow 
Plan.  It is a rare and unique app.  I look at Datebk4, and I see a 
very capable program.  I see a program with 10 billion features.  And 
I see a program where it is virtually impossible to FIND the features 
you want if you haven't already used them before.  (I also see a 
program with bugs in it where, when I post on their forum about the 
bugs, I am just ignored by the developer, even though I registered 
both datebk3 and datebk4).

The beauty of Shadow Plan is visible in so many different ways.  You 
can sit down without the docs and see that while you may not be able 
to do EXACTLY what you want without reading something, you get soo 
close, and see SOOOOO many other cool features that you WEREN'T 
looking for that you realize what you need to do is either there, or 
else the author is probably adding it to the software already.

To be blunt, I am stunned.  This software is excellent.  It is a VERY 
missed paradigm on the palm, and for what reason, I have no clue.  
The ability to manage heirarchical lists where the end user has 
control over what is in those lists, how they are ordered, and how 
they are displayed, this is devoid of 99.999999999999% of the 
software for the palm.  The overwhelming paradigm is that everyone 
wants everything at the same level (ala memo pad), with no nesting 
whatsoever.

To get all that Shadow Plan offers, and to get it in color, and to 
get it from an author that is quite clearly adding features to the 
software in an ongoing basis, this is just astounding to me.  I count 
myself lucky to have found this piece of software as early as I did, 
and to begin gaining the benefits derived from it.

As far as new features go, I have already seen mention of a conduit.  
I saw in the docs a description of exporting to memo pad as html.  
This is very nice, and very simple.  I do wish, however, that there 
was a way to export to doc.  I presume this would come at some later 
time.  Once the conduit is out, hopefully there will be a desktop app 
version of shadow plan.  If so, I think Jeff Mitchel may be in a 
world of hurt.  He would have to hire people just to respond to all 
the email praising his new product.

One thing I would really like to see.  It is nearly there already.  I 
didn't realize at first that you could put notes inside the entries 
of a list.  So I was sortof using Shadow Plan in a crippled mode (but 
very close to how you HAVE to use Hi-Note).  If I had "Suppress title 
word wrap" set to "on", Shadow Plan works very similar to Hi-Note.  I 
could have LOTS of text on each line (basically in Shadow Plan terms, 
I had a VERY long title text), and it would only show the first line 
of it from the overview.  I could double tap on the "title", and it 
would then go to "details", where it would show me the rest of 
my "Title", which to me, was the note portion itself.

Then I noticed the note, and then I found out how to use the "Note 
Icon goes to note editor", and I saw that I could either go to the 
note in a new screen, or see the content of the note right there in 
the list itself, VERY NICE.

The only thing I think might be nice would be if we could choose 
(this would need to be a toggle) to have a split screen for our view 
of the list.  So the top would be the list itself and the bottom 
would be the text of the note for the currently selected item in the 
list.  This is done in the program hpcnotes, but of course, they 
don't allow nested lists (and their program is VERY non palm centric, 
it has buttons wasting space on the screen for NO reason, they 
literally do nothing and are only for the pocketPC version of their 
software).

If you could do that, I think you would have MY palm killer app.  :)

Sincerely,

Joe Chott

The
170

From: Rick Silver  <rick@m...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 8:39pm
Subject: Re: About Shadow Plan

 
Joe,
Very nice post.  However I was surprised to see you write the paragraph I 
copied below.  I am the moderator of the PimlicoDateBk Egroup/YahooGroup.   
I started it with the author's permission but it does not belong to nor is 
run by the author and his company.  He frequents it ALOT but it is not his 
forum  (and thus does not guarantee a response to every post).

For bugs, you should use the form supplied in the zip file that DateBK4 came 
with.

The author, CESD, is one of the best and most responsive developers I have 
ever encountered.  In fact, there have been comparisons between the style 
and attitude of CESD and Jeff.

Rick

>>>>
I look at Datebk4, and I see a
very capable program.  I see a program with 10 billion features.  And
I see a program where it is virtually impossible to FIND the features
you want if you haven't already used them before.  (I also see a
program with bugs in it where, when I post on their forum about the
bugs, I am just ignored by the developer, even though I registered
both datebk3 and datebk4).


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
171

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 9:46pm
Subject: Off Topic: Rick Silver, about datebk4

 
I filled out the bug report and sent it in.  Hopefully CESD will be 
able to help me.  The reason I mentioned the fact that he ignored me 
is that he responded to OTHER people's posts directly following my 
own, and there are TONS of people that have posted about the 
problem.  He basically posted saying it wasn't his problem, it was 
cosmetic only, and he hasn't responded about the issue to any of the 
myriad posts (by myself as well as others) on the list since that 
time.  It is as though he has said his piece and refuses to 
acknowledge the issue any more.  Oh well, hopefully by sending in the 
bug report (for a bug he already knows about) will at least prompt 
him to respond to me about what the issue is and how to resolve it.

Sorry for taking up Shadow Plan bandwidth for this issue. . .

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., "Rick Silver" <rick@m...> wrote:
> Joe,
> Very nice post.  However I was surprised to see you write the 
paragraph I 
> copied below.  I am the moderator of the PimlicoDateBk 
Egroup/YahooGroup.   
> I started it with the author's permission but it does not belong to 
nor is 
> run by the author and his company.  He frequents it ALOT but it is 
not his 
> forum  (and thus does not guarantee a response to every post).
> 
> For bugs, you should use the form supplied in the zip file that 
DateBK4 came 
> with.
> 
> The author, CESD, is one of the best and most responsive developers 
I have 
> ever encountered.  In fact, there have been comparisons between the 
style 
> and attitude of CESD and Jeff.
> 
> Rick
> 
> >>>>
> I look at Datebk4, and I see a
> very capable program.  I see a program with 10 billion features.  
And
> I see a program where it is virtually impossible to FIND the 
features
> you want if you haven't already used them before.  (I also see a
> program with bugs in it where, when I post on their forum about the
> bugs, I am just ignored by the developer, even though I registered
> both datebk3 and datebk4).
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
172

From: verxion@p...
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 10:08pm
Subject: Re: Wish for Shadow (fwd)

 
I really hate to jump on the "me too" bandwagon, but if that is what 
it takes to get this set of features in, let me do it.  I work for 
Boeing, and I can tell you, a LOT of us have palms.  ALL of us would 
benefit from such features.  I do everything discussed in this email, 
but through manual labour.  The creation, editting, and distribution 
of meeting agendas is a real pain for me.  Assigning of action items, 
tracking of them, all of this I can do on my palm, NONE of it is 
linked.  ALL of the maintenance of it is manual.  It works, I get by, 
but I waste a lot of time.  If there is any way you can add these 
features, I have to say, everyone in business will buy palms, and 
they will all use your software.

-Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming 
items
> which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think 
about.
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> 
> After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer 
application, I
> can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this 
email.
> 
> I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow 
can
> handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of 
the
> agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
> someone else to do.
> 
> If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, 
possibly in
> place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
> assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on 
the item
> could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
> 'action item".
> 
> It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me 
to
> select a person, and see all of the action items that had been 
assigned to
> that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one 
meetings.
> (Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items 
for that
> person from many different meetings.)
> 
> To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is 
to
> start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves 
off all
> items checked as completed, but carries forward those not 
completed. It
> should also add action items from the previous meeting as new 
agenda items
> for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional 
items and
> have a new agenda.
> 
> It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with 
MY NAME
> on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, 
so I
> could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of 
the
> meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to 
do" and
> calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I 
would like
> to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do 
lists.)
> 
> One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I 
meet
> with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action 
item be
> given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that 
would show
> up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to 
later make
> the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar 
program
> such as a floating event would be useful.
> 
> Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a 
printed
> agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a 
desktop
> machine, that could be easily handled.
> 
> If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and 
follow up
> on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
> organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
> Business runs on meetings.
173

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 7, 2001 10:13pm
Subject: Re: Re: Wish for Shadow (fwd)

 
Many of these items will be going in over the next little
while. Some are further away, but association of items to people is going
in pretty soon indeed..

		jeff

On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> I really hate to jump on the "me too" bandwagon, but if that is what 
> it takes to get this set of features in, let me do it.  I work for 
> Boeing, and I can tell you, a LOT of us have palms.  ALL of us would 
> benefit from such features.  I do everything discussed in this email, 
> but through manual labour.  The creation, editting, and distribution 
> of meeting agendas is a real pain for me.  Assigning of action items, 
> tracking of them, all of this I can do on my palm, NONE of it is 
> linked.  ALL of the maintenance of it is manual.  It works, I get by, 
> but I waste a lot of time.  If there is any way you can add these 
> features, I have to say, everyone in business will buy palms, and 
> they will all use your software.
> 
> -Joe Chott
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > 	Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming 
> items
> > which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think 
> about.
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> > 
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > 
> > After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer 
> application, I
> > can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this 
> email.
> > 
> > I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow 
> can
> > handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of 
> the
> > agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
> > someone else to do.
> > 
> > If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, 
> possibly in
> > place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
> > assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on 
> the item
> > could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
> > 'action item".
> > 
> > It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me 
> to
> > select a person, and see all of the action items that had been 
> assigned to
> > that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one 
> meetings.
> > (Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items 
> for that
> > person from many different meetings.)
> > 
> > To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is 
> to
> > start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves 
> off all
> > items checked as completed, but carries forward those not 
> completed. It
> > should also add action items from the previous meeting as new 
> agenda items
> > for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional 
> items and
> > have a new agenda.
> > 
> > It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with 
> MY NAME
> > on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, 
> so I
> > could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of 
> the
> > meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to 
> do" and
> > calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I 
> would like
> > to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do 
> lists.)
> > 
> > One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I 
> meet
> > with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action 
> item be
> > given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that 
> would show
> > up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to 
> later make
> > the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar 
> program
> > such as a floating event would be useful.
> > 
> > Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a 
> printed
> > agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a 
> desktop
> > machine, that could be easily handled.
> > 
> > If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and 
> follow up
> > on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
> > organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
> > Business runs on meetings.
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
174

From: Doug Roberts  <doug@b...>
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2001 3:15am
Subject: RE: About Shadow Plan

 
Thoughtful and well-written Joe - I agree --Kudos!

-----Original Message-----
From: verxion@p... [mailto:verxion@p...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 1:11 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] About Shadow Plan


Life with Palm software is a strange thing.  I have been using palm 
computers since the 1000 first came out.  I have upgraded nearly the 
whole way.  I know for a fact that I have owned the 1000, the 5000, 
the palm professional (skipped the personal), then went to the palm 
V, then the palm IIIc, and now the handspring visor prism.

I have been using pilotgear.com (palmgear.com) since I first knew 
about it, which, if memory serves, was in the palm pilot 1000 days 
(back when these things were made by US Robotics).  So I have been 
using these things for a while, and have been grabbing software from 
palmgear that whole time.  I still remember when it was possible to 
do the "software browse" on palmgear, and just look at every piece of 
software for the palm.

Those days are now past, of course.  It is actually DIFFICULT to find 
all the software that is out there.  Many times I have felt that 
SURELY a piece of software must exist that does XXXXX (fill in the 
blank), but I cannot find it anywhere.  This is why palmgear is SOOO 
handy to me.  Often, I am looking at a piece of software and see that 
it isn't quite what I want, but in the REVIEW of the software, I see 
someone refer to something else.  I go look at that other program, 
and I may have just found the gem I was looking for.

The only OTHER reliable way I have found to keep up with what is out 
there is to nearly CONSTANTLY monitor the new and updated software on 
palmgear.  THAT is how I found Shadow Plan.

I have been disappointed with memo pad for a long time now.  I have 
found some truly EXCELLENT editors for the palm, but they all store 
each "file" at the same level - no directories, or anything like 
that.  I can attempt to do something of that kind by using 
categories, but this doesn't do quite what I want because OFTEN I 
want to see more than one category at a time.

In the past, I found a program called "Hi-Note".  This had a pc 
conduit called "PCHi-Note" which allowed you to edit the notes on the 
PC as well.  Hi-Note is not a particularly well written application.  
I hasn't received many updates over the years it has been out.  It 
had visual issues on my palm3C, which interestingly do not occur on 
my visor prism.  It served a purpose though, it allowed me to 
keep "memos" in a heirarchically organized list (technically it 
allows you to do graphics too, but for me personally, that hasn't 
ever been a big bonus, I use bugme for any graphic notes I need).

But Hi-Note forces my prism into black and white mode.  It is the 
ONLY app I have that does this.  If I have an alarm go off while I am 
in Hi-Note, the alarm is forced into black and white.  To be frank, 
this pisses me off.  :)

I had looked for some other programs for the palm that would help me 
with this organizational situation, and I never found any that I 
liked.  I did an INCREDIBLE amount of research before I bought Hi-
Note, and it was really the best thing I could find at the time.  The 
only thing in the running that I found recently was Progect, but, 
while an EXCELLENT project management program, it lacked some of the 
QUICK, SIMPLE list generation things I was looking for.

Then, yesterday, I found Shadow Plan on PalmGear.  I downloaded it, 
tried it, saw the website, saw the reviews, saw the documentation, 
saw the philosophy.  You know what?  I registered it.  I registered 
it for the same reason I paid money for peditPro.  I registered these 
products and spent my money on them because it looks like I am going 
to have a future in the software.  The software looks good, but it 
isn't going to be a static thing.  It is living.  It is growing.  And 
I like that.

I have been using Linux since 1991, and I have to say, I love your 
philosophy in developing Shadow Plan.  I know the traditional old 
school Linux bigot would scold you for selling your software, but the 
price is low, and I don't have any issue with it.  I -*LOVE*- Shadow 
Plan.  It is a rare and unique app.  I look at Datebk4, and I see a 
very capable program.  I see a program with 10 billion features.  And 
I see a program where it is virtually impossible to FIND the features 
you want if you haven't already used them before.  (I also see a 
program with bugs in it where, when I post on their forum about the 
bugs, I am just ignored by the developer, even though I registered 
both datebk3 and datebk4).

The beauty of Shadow Plan is visible in so many different ways.  You 
can sit down without the docs and see that while you may not be able 
to do EXACTLY what you want without reading something, you get soo 
close, and see SOOOOO many other cool features that you WEREN'T 
looking for that you realize what you need to do is either there, or 
else the author is probably adding it to the software already.

To be blunt, I am stunned.  This software is excellent.  It is a VERY 
missed paradigm on the palm, and for what reason, I have no clue.  
The ability to manage heirarchical lists where the end user has 
control over what is in those lists, how they are ordered, and how 
they are displayed, this is devoid of 99.999999999999% of the 
software for the palm.  The overwhelming paradigm is that everyone 
wants everything at the same level (ala memo pad), with no nesting 
whatsoever.

To get all that Shadow Plan offers, and to get it in color, and to 
get it from an author that is quite clearly adding features to the 
software in an ongoing basis, this is just astounding to me.  I count 
myself lucky to have found this piece of software as early as I did, 
and to begin gaining the benefits derived from it.

As far as new features go, I have already seen mention of a conduit.  
I saw in the docs a description of exporting to memo pad as html.  
This is very nice, and very simple.  I do wish, however, that there 
was a way to export to doc.  I presume this would come at some later 
time.  Once the conduit is out, hopefully there will be a desktop app 
version of shadow plan.  If so, I think Jeff Mitchel may be in a 
world of hurt.  He would have to hire people just to respond to all 
the email praising his new product.

One thing I would really like to see.  It is nearly there already.  I 
didn't realize at first that you could put notes inside the entries 
of a list.  So I was sortof using Shadow Plan in a crippled mode (but 
very close to how you HAVE to use Hi-Note).  If I had "Suppress title 
word wrap" set to "on", Shadow Plan works very similar to Hi-Note.  I 
could have LOTS of text on each line (basically in Shadow Plan terms, 
I had a VERY long title text), and it would only show the first line 
of it from the overview.  I could double tap on the "title", and it 
would then go to "details", where it would show me the rest of 
my "Title", which to me, was the note portion itself.

Then I noticed the note, and then I found out how to use the "Note 
Icon goes to note editor", and I saw that I could either go to the 
note in a new screen, or see the content of the note right there in 
the list itself, VERY NICE.

The only thing I think might be nice would be if we could choose 
(this would need to be a toggle) to have a split screen for our view 
of the list.  So the top would be the list itself and the bottom 
would be the text of the note for the currently selected item in the 
list.  This is done in the program hpcnotes, but of course, they 
don't allow nested lists (and their program is VERY non palm centric, 
it has buttons wasting space on the screen for NO reason, they 
literally do nothing and are only for the pocketPC version of their 
software).

If you could do that, I think you would have MY palm killer app.  :)

Sincerely,

Joe Chott

The 



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
175

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2001 1:50pm
Subject: Re: About Shadow Plan

 
First off, I must say, thanks to you and everyone for the support
over the months. I've worked hard to produce Shadow, to support,
keep it alive and crazy, and to build a community feel around the mailing
lists and forems. Say whats on your mind.. we're all friends here, and
we'll all pitch in when we can. I'll try and keep up if you will ;)

	Feel free to post a piece of this to PalmGear or Handango Reviews
;) If I need a testimonial for a website, can I use this? Its well
written, fun, and reminiscent :)

		jeff

On Wed, 7 Feb 2001 verxion@p... wrote:

> Life with Palm software is a strange thing.  I have been using palm 
> computers since the 1000 first came out.  I have upgraded nearly the 
> whole way.  I know for a fact that I have owned the 1000, the 5000, 
> the palm professional (skipped the personal), then went to the palm 
> V, then the palm IIIc, and now the handspring visor prism.
> 
> I have been using pilotgear.com (palmgear.com) since I first knew 
> about it, which, if memory serves, was in the palm pilot 1000 days 
> (back when these things were made by US Robotics).  So I have been 
> using these things for a while, and have been grabbing software from 
> palmgear that whole time.  I still remember when it was possible to 
> do the "software browse" on palmgear, and just look at every piece of 
> software for the palm.
> 
> Those days are now past, of course.  It is actually DIFFICULT to find 
> all the software that is out there.  Many times I have felt that 
> SURELY a piece of software must exist that does XXXXX (fill in the 
> blank), but I cannot find it anywhere.  This is why palmgear is SOOO 
> handy to me.  Often, I am looking at a piece of software and see that 
> it isn't quite what I want, but in the REVIEW of the software, I see 
> someone refer to something else.  I go look at that other program, 
> and I may have just found the gem I was looking for.
> 
> The only OTHER reliable way I have found to keep up with what is out 
> there is to nearly CONSTANTLY monitor the new and updated software on 
> palmgear.  THAT is how I found Shadow Plan.
> 
> I have been disappointed with memo pad for a long time now.  I have 
> found some truly EXCELLENT editors for the palm, but they all store 
> each "file" at the same level - no directories, or anything like 
> that.  I can attempt to do something of that kind by using 
> categories, but this doesn't do quite what I want because OFTEN I 
> want to see more than one category at a time.
> 
> In the past, I found a program called "Hi-Note".  This had a pc 
> conduit called "PCHi-Note" which allowed you to edit the notes on the 
> PC as well.  Hi-Note is not a particularly well written application.  
> I hasn't received many updates over the years it has been out.  It 
> had visual issues on my palm3C, which interestingly do not occur on 
> my visor prism.  It served a purpose though, it allowed me to 
> keep "memos" in a heirarchically organized list (technically it 
> allows you to do graphics too, but for me personally, that hasn't 
> ever been a big bonus, I use bugme for any graphic notes I need).
> 
> But Hi-Note forces my prism into black and white mode.  It is the 
> ONLY app I have that does this.  If I have an alarm go off while I am 
> in Hi-Note, the alarm is forced into black and white.  To be frank, 
> this pisses me off.  :)
> 
> I had looked for some other programs for the palm that would help me 
> with this organizational situation, and I never found any that I 
> liked.  I did an INCREDIBLE amount of research before I bought Hi-
> Note, and it was really the best thing I could find at the time.  The 
> only thing in the running that I found recently was Progect, but, 
> while an EXCELLENT project management program, it lacked some of the 
> QUICK, SIMPLE list generation things I was looking for.
> 
> Then, yesterday, I found Shadow Plan on PalmGear.  I downloaded it, 
> tried it, saw the website, saw the reviews, saw the documentation, 
> saw the philosophy.  You know what?  I registered it.  I registered 
> it for the same reason I paid money for peditPro.  I registered these 
> products and spent my money on them because it looks like I am going 
> to have a future in the software.  The software looks good, but it 
> isn't going to be a static thing.  It is living.  It is growing.  And 
> I like that.
> 
> I have been using Linux since 1991, and I have to say, I love your 
> philosophy in developing Shadow Plan.  I know the traditional old 
> school Linux bigot would scold you for selling your software, but the 
> price is low, and I don't have any issue with it.  I -*LOVE*- Shadow 
> Plan.  It is a rare and unique app.  I look at Datebk4, and I see a 
> very capable program.  I see a program with 10 billion features.  And 
> I see a program where it is virtually impossible to FIND the features 
> you want if you haven't already used them before.  (I also see a 
> program with bugs in it where, when I post on their forum about the 
> bugs, I am just ignored by the developer, even though I registered 
> both datebk3 and datebk4).
> 
> The beauty of Shadow Plan is visible in so many different ways.  You 
> can sit down without the docs and see that while you may not be able 
> to do EXACTLY what you want without reading something, you get soo 
> close, and see SOOOOO many other cool features that you WEREN'T 
> looking for that you realize what you need to do is either there, or 
> else the author is probably adding it to the software already.
> 
> To be blunt, I am stunned.  This software is excellent.  It is a VERY 
> missed paradigm on the palm, and for what reason, I have no clue.  
> The ability to manage heirarchical lists where the end user has 
> control over what is in those lists, how they are ordered, and how 
> they are displayed, this is devoid of 99.999999999999% of the 
> software for the palm.  The overwhelming paradigm is that everyone 
> wants everything at the same level (ala memo pad), with no nesting 
> whatsoever.
> 
> To get all that Shadow Plan offers, and to get it in color, and to 
> get it from an author that is quite clearly adding features to the 
> software in an ongoing basis, this is just astounding to me.  I count 
> myself lucky to have found this piece of software as early as I did, 
> and to begin gaining the benefits derived from it.
> 
> As far as new features go, I have already seen mention of a conduit.  
> I saw in the docs a description of exporting to memo pad as html.  
> This is very nice, and very simple.  I do wish, however, that there 
> was a way to export to doc.  I presume this would come at some later 
> time.  Once the conduit is out, hopefully there will be a desktop app 
> version of shadow plan.  If so, I think Jeff Mitchel may be in a 
> world of hurt.  He would have to hire people just to respond to all 
> the email praising his new product.
> 
> One thing I would really like to see.  It is nearly there already.  I 
> didn't realize at first that you could put notes inside the entries 
> of a list.  So I was sortof using Shadow Plan in a crippled mode (but 
> very close to how you HAVE to use Hi-Note).  If I had "Suppress title 
> word wrap" set to "on", Shadow Plan works very similar to Hi-Note.  I 
> could have LOTS of text on each line (basically in Shadow Plan terms, 
> I had a VERY long title text), and it would only show the first line 
> of it from the overview.  I could double tap on the "title", and it 
> would then go to "details", where it would show me the rest of 
> my "Title", which to me, was the note portion itself.
> 
> Then I noticed the note, and then I found out how to use the "Note 
> Icon goes to note editor", and I saw that I could either go to the 
> note in a new screen, or see the content of the note right there in 
> the list itself, VERY NICE.
> 
> The only thing I think might be nice would be if we could choose 
> (this would need to be a toggle) to have a split screen for our view 
> of the list.  So the top would be the list itself and the bottom 
> would be the text of the note for the currently selected item in the 
> list.  This is done in the program hpcnotes, but of course, they 
> don't allow nested lists (and their program is VERY non palm centric, 
> it has buttons wasting space on the screen for NO reason, they 
> literally do nothing and are only for the pocketPC version of their 
> software).
> 
> If you could do that, I think you would have MY palm killer app.  :)
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Joe Chott
> 
> The 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
176

From: verxion@p...
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2001 2:44pm
Subject: Re: About Shadow Plan

 
I fully intend to post on palmgear.  My intent is to post on both hi-
note and on shadow plan.  As I stated in my own post here, often 
times, people's reviews of a product in which they recommend 
something else are OFTEN how I find the best software for the palm.

As far as using my email as a testimonial, feel free to, my only 
request would be that you remove the word "The" after my name.  I 
have no idea how that got there, and I certainly didn't mean for it 
to be there.  :)

And again, thanks so very much for such an awesome application!  :)

Sincerely,

Joe Chott

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> 
> 	First off, I must say, thanks to you and everyone for the 
support
> over the months. I've worked hard to produce Shadow, to support,
> keep it alive and crazy, and to build a community feel around the 
mailing
> lists and forems. Say whats on your mind.. we're all friends here, 
and
> we'll all pitch in when we can. I'll try and keep up if you will ;)
> 
> 	Feel free to post a piece of this to PalmGear or Handango 
Reviews
> ;) If I need a testimonial for a website, can I use this? Its well
> written, fun, and reminiscent :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
177

From: pig_duck1119@y...
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2001 4:37pm
Subject: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
Hi Jeff,

I am trying out Bonsai, Hi-Note, BrianForest and ShadowPlan right 
now. I'd say right now I love ShadowPlan the most.

I want to use this kind of software to help me to keep track of all 
the projects I've been working on.

However, I think I really need an enhancement before I can pick 
ShadowPlan, i.e. to export the progress and finish status of each 
item. I used BrianForest before to do that and they have a pretty 
well written export and import interface. However, the problem is 
they lack color and keyboard support.

Do you think you can add this feature in the near future so I can 
consider buying this software?
178

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2001 5:09pm
Subject: Re: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
Theres a lot of ny plate right now; immediate goals are more
keyboard support and the backup conduit. A full conduit is being
developed, but right now I'm working on making the conduit drop a nice XML
file on your desktop, for each file, as well as building exporters to
esport from the XML file to other popular formats for printing and handing
out to others, etc. Since its XML, other people are working on variosu
conversion tools, too. Eventually it'll be a full way sync.

	Better import and export is on my todo list for soon, too.. better
category managenment for import and export, an exporting more data. But if
you're exporting to the desktop, the conduit ought to make you happy. A
full desktop application is in the works, too.

	Pardon my tersity.. I just shoveled snow for 2 hours :)

On Thu, 8 Feb 2001 pig_duck1119@y... wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
> 
> I am trying out Bonsai, Hi-Note, BrianForest and ShadowPlan right 
> now. I'd say right now I love ShadowPlan the most.
> 
> I want to use this kind of software to help me to keep track of all 
> the projects I've been working on.
> 
> However, I think I really need an enhancement before I can pick 
> ShadowPlan, i.e. to export the progress and finish status of each 
> item. I used BrianForest before to do that and they have a pretty 
> well written export and import interface. However, the problem is 
> they lack color and keyboard support.
> 
> Do you think you can add this feature in the near future so I can 
> consider buying this software?
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
179

From: pw@w...
Date: Thu Feb 8, 2001 7:57pm
Subject: Expand scrolls screen

 
I would like to see the screen scroll, if needed, when I expand an 
item or a note. 

Now, assuming I tap the note icon on the item at the bottom of the 
screen, I have to tap the down arrow (or hit the hard button) to see 
what the note contains. Same for items.

I think it would be very helpful if the screen scrolled so that the 
expanded item moved up to allow all, or as much as possible, of the 
expanded text to show, without scrolling the expanded item off the 
screen. 

I would rather have some screen movement AND be able to see that 
something is there than having to rely only on the small arrows 
and/or the note icon.

Any one else?

Peter
180

From: dauvergne.sims  <dauvergne.sims@c...>
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 0:54am
Subject: RE: Expand scrolls screen

 
I quite agree!

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From:	pw@w... [SMTP:pw@w...]
Sent:	Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:58 PM
To:	shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject:	[shadow-discuss] Expand scrolls screen

I would like to see the screen scroll, if needed, when I expand an 
item or a note. 

Now, assuming I tap the note icon on the item at the bottom of the 
screen, I have to tap the down arrow (or hit the hard button) to see 
what the note contains. Same for items.

I think it would be very helpful if the screen scrolled so that the 
expanded item moved up to allow all, or as much as possible, of the 
expanded text to show, without scrolling the expanded item off the 
screen. 

I would rather have some screen movement AND be able to see that 
something is there than having to rely only on the small arrows 
and/or the note icon.

Any one else?

Peter
181

From: demetrios@c...
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 1:00am
Subject: ToDo Links

 
When I link to a ToDo why is it that when I delete the ToDo the 
Shadow isn't deleted. All that happens is that the link is severed. 
Shouldn't it be deleted when the ToDo is?

Demetrios, 
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?
182

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 2:07am
Subject: Re: ToDo Links

 
On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:

>    When I link to a ToDo why is it that when I delete the ToDo the 
> Shadow isn't deleted. All that happens is that the link is severed. 
> Shouldn't it be deleted when the ToDo is?

	I think I'll add a pref to automatically delete items with severed
links. IT isn't the default because there are times when you want to keep
the items.. you check it off and delete it form todo, but you wish to
remember that its done in your project. Or if you resore from backups and
can't get everything back, you don't wish to delete all the items on
loading...

	So maybe auto-delete shadow items where the todo or datebook item
is missing, as a pref. (ie: If you have a DOC link, when that is
available, you don't want the item to vanish because you removed the
DOC..)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
183

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 2:08am
Subject: Re: ToDo Links

 
On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:

>    When I link to a ToDo why is it that when I delete the ToDo the 
> Shadow isn't deleted. All that happens is that the link is severed. 
> Shouldn't it be deleted when the ToDo is?

	Also.. when beaming a list to someone else.. they won't have the
todos or datebook links.. dont' want the list to come up empty..

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
184

From: pig_duck1119@y...
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 4:45am
Subject: Re: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
Thanks for your promptly reply.

So does it mean the desktop too will have all the progress and done 
status exported?

Pig
185

From: Jim Robbins  <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 1:01pm
Subject: Re: ToDo Links

 
Since it's fairly common to purge the To-Do list of old items (which would
delete them), I'd rather not have the Shadow entries automatically deleted.
I would like to have some sort of purge feature for Shadow, preferably more
intelligent than checked vs. unchecked, before x date.

Jim


----- Original Message -----
From: <demetrios@c...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 8:00 PM
Subject: [shadow-discuss] ToDo Links


>    When I link to a ToDo why is it that when I delete the ToDo the
> Shadow isn't deleted. All that happens is that the link is severed.
> Shouldn't it be deleted when the ToDo is?
>
> Demetrios,
> VisionMaster@C...
> Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
186

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Re: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 pig_duck1119@y... wrote:

> So does it mean the desktop too will have all the progress and done 
> status exported?

	The desktop backup files have everything; the new conduit desktop
files will have everything, and the exports from them can have whatever
you guys want. When I built an export module, I'll be asking what folks
need in it, though the datafile format will be open so everyone is welcome
to build their own exporters.

	For a CSV export, I'll likely include everythibng; for a MSWord
export, maybe it wont' be everything. Up to you guys :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
187

From: kencn@a...
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 5:35pm
Subject: Re: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
Jeff,

I'm not sure what form your desktop exporters will take.  I was 
thinking along the lines of a single tool that would allow you to 
interactivly select the attributes in a specificed order, pick an 
output format (word, html, csv, etc.) and then do the export.  Maybe 
with an option to save the specific mapping for reuse.  Sounds like 
you may be looking for users to suggest what needs to be exported and 
I'd be surprised if you reached a consensus, except perhaps for 
exporting everything.  Sorting and filtering in the export would be 
nice as well but maybe that's something better left to the 
eventual desktop program.

Thanks again.
Ken

--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 pig_duck1119@y... wrote:
> 
> > So does it mean the desktop too will have all the progress and 
done 
> > status exported?
> 
> 	The desktop backup files have everything; the new conduit 
desktop
> files will have everything, and the exports from them can have 
whatever
> you guys want. When I built an export module, I'll be asking what 
folks
> need in it, though the datafile format will be open so everyone is 
welcome
> to build their own exporters.
> 
> 	For a CSV export, I'll likely include everythibng; for a 
MSWord
> export, maybe it wont' be everything. Up to you guys :)
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
188

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 9, 2001 6:55pm
Subject: Re: Re: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> I'm not sure what form your desktop exporters will take.  I was 
> thinking along the lines of a single tool that would allow you to 
> interactivly select the attributes in a specificed order, pick an 
> output format (word, html, csv, etc.) and then do the export.  Maybe 
> with an option to save the specific mapping for reuse.  Sounds like 
> you may be looking for users to suggest what needs to be exported and 
> I'd be surprised if you reached a consensus, except perhaps for 
> exporting everything.  Sorting and filtering in the export would be 
> nice as well but maybe that's something better left to the 
> eventual desktop program.

	Those are more or less my thoughts; the conduit will simply drop
off the .SML files onto the desktop. There will be a tool you can run
which will allow you to chose form known and installed modules; each
module will have its own set of options. The options will be savable for
reuse. So in theory you'd pick "CSV" from the module list, and then choose
which columns you'd like included from another list, and then a filename,
and hit Go. I coudl do a wizard, but thats too formal, I think.

	Theres also 3rd party modules; I'm betting a lot of people will
write little programs to translate from the .SML into whatever they want,
since the format of the .SML will be published and open.

		jeff

> 
> Thanks again.
> Ken
> 
> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 pig_duck1119@y... wrote:
> > 
> > > So does it mean the desktop too will have all the progress and 
> done 
> > > status exported?
> > 
> > 	The desktop backup files have everything; the new conduit 
> desktop
> > files will have everything, and the exports from them can have 
> whatever
> > you guys want. When I built an export module, I'll be asking what 
> folks
> > need in it, though the datafile format will be open so everyone is 
> welcome
> > to build their own exporters.
> > 
> > 	For a CSV export, I'll likely include everythibng; for a 
> MSWord
> > export, maybe it wont' be everything. Up to you guys :)
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > --
> > "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own 
> micro
> > circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> > sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he 
> is?"
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
189

From: swiftfusion@y...
Date: Sat Feb 10, 2001 1:21am
Subject: Re: ToDo Links

 
> 	I think I'll add a pref to automatically delete items with 
severed
> links. > 		jeff
> 
I think adding the preference to allow the user to select which 
behavior they wish is an excellent idea.
sf
190

From: Bear  <ace_xe@y...>
Date: Sat Feb 10, 2001 7:31pm
Subject: Re: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
Ok, I only have enough time to half follow this list, if my question 
has already be answered you won't hurt my fealings by telling me so.

If you are going to use "Shadow: the desktop choise of evil" to just 
dump the files into the computer-majorous, can you also include a 
hook for the plugins to to have them start their plugin duties right 
after the conduit has finished?  I do enjoy the idea of being able 
select a plugin to transfer my evil thoughts transmuted via shadow 
into what-ever format I select.  I just don't like the idea of having 
to waste an extra mouse click to do it.  That extra mouse click could 
have been used to end the world as we know it, and instead, I have to 
transfer my files...

Enjoy!

BEAR
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:
> 
> > I'm not sure what form your desktop exporters will take.  I was 
> > thinking along the lines of a single tool that would allow you to 
> > interactivly select the attributes in a specificed order, pick an 
> > output format (word, html, csv, etc.) and then do the export.  
Maybe 
> > with an option to save the specific mapping for reuse.  Sounds 
like 
> > you may be looking for users to suggest what needs to be exported 
and 
> > I'd be surprised if you reached a consensus, except perhaps for 
> > exporting everything.  Sorting and filtering in the export would 
be 
> > nice as well but maybe that's something better left to the 
> > eventual desktop program.
> 
> 	Those are more or less my thoughts; the conduit will simply 
drop
> off the .SML files onto the desktop. There will be a tool you can 
run
> which will allow you to chose form known and installed modules; each
> module will have its own set of options. The options will be 
savable for
> reuse. So in theory you'd pick "CSV" from the module list, and then 
choose
> which columns you'd like included from another list, and then a 
filename,
> and hit Go. I coudl do a wizard, but thats too formal, I think.
> 
> 	Theres also 3rd party modules; I'm betting a lot of people 
will
> write little programs to translate from the .SML into whatever they 
want,
> since the format of the .SML will be published and open.
> 
> 		jeff
> 
> > 
> > Thanks again.
> > Ken
> > 
> > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 pig_duck1119@y... wrote:
> > > 
> > > > So does it mean the desktop too will have all the progress 
and 
> > done 
> > > > status exported?
> > > 
> > > 	The desktop backup files have everything; the new conduit 
> > desktop
> > > files will have everything, and the exports from them can have 
> > whatever
> > > you guys want. When I built an export module, I'll be asking 
what 
> > folks
> > > need in it, though the datafile format will be open so everyone 
is 
> > welcome
> > > to build their own exporters.
> > > 
> > > 	For a CSV export, I'll likely include everythibng; for a 
> > MSWord
> > > export, maybe it wont' be everything. Up to you guys :)
> > > 
> > > 		jeff
> > > 
> > is?"
> > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_

> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
191

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sat Feb 10, 2001 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Re: Enhancement suggestion for the export

 
On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Bear wrote:

> hook for the plugins to to have them start their plugin duties right 
> after the conduit has finished?  I do enjoy the idea of being able 
> select a plugin to transfer my evil thoughts transmuted via shadow 
> into what-ever format I select.  I just don't like the idea of having 
> to waste an extra mouse click to do it.  That extra mouse click could 
> have been used to end the world as we know it, and instead, I have to 
> transfer my files...

	Yeap, this is my plan. The first-cut conduit will be a simple
backup only to get it working. I'll likely let that go public once she
seems stable and complete.

	Then I'll add some sort of plugin system, so that once all the
backups are done, the auto-conversion can occur via whatever modules
people have written. I'll have to write a conversion tool shell so that
you can configure plugins.

	Then I'll implement sync-back-in part. So much to do in this arena
:)

		jeff

> --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm not sure what form your desktop exporters will take.  I was 
> > > thinking along the lines of a single tool that would allow you to 
> > > interactivly select the attributes in a specificed order, pick an 
> > > output format (word, html, csv, etc.) and then do the export.  
> Maybe 
> > > with an option to save the specific mapping for reuse.  Sounds 
> like 
> > > you may be looking for users to suggest what needs to be exported 
> and 
> > > I'd be surprised if you reached a consensus, except perhaps for 
> > > exporting everything.  Sorting and filtering in the export would 
> be 
> > > nice as well but maybe that's something better left to the 
> > > eventual desktop program.
> > 
> > 	Those are more or less my thoughts; the conduit will simply 
> drop
> > off the .SML files onto the desktop. There will be a tool you can 
> run
> > which will allow you to chose form known and installed modules; each
> > module will have its own set of options. The options will be 
> savable for
> > reuse. So in theory you'd pick "CSV" from the module list, and then 
> choose
> > which columns you'd like included from another list, and then a 
> filename,
> > and hit Go. I coudl do a wizard, but thats too formal, I think.
> > 
> > 	Theres also 3rd party modules; I'm betting a lot of people 
> will
> > write little programs to translate from the .SML into whatever they 
> want,
> > since the format of the .SML will be published and open.
> > 
> > 		jeff
> > 
> > > 
> > > Thanks again.
> > > Ken
> > > 
> > > --- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 9 Feb 2001 pig_duck1119@y... wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > So does it mean the desktop too will have all the progress 
> and 
> > > done 
> > > > > status exported?
> > > > 
> > > > 	The desktop backup files have everything; the new conduit 
> > > desktop
> > > > files will have everything, and the exports from them can have 
> > > whatever
> > > > you guys want. When I built an export module, I'll be asking 
> what 
> > > folks
> > > > need in it, though the datafile format will be open so everyone 
> is 
> > > welcome
> > > > to build their own exporters.
> > > > 
> > > > 	For a CSV export, I'll likely include everythibng; for a 
> > > MSWord
> > > > export, maybe it wont' be everything. Up to you guys :)
> > > > 
> > > > 		jeff
> > > > 
> > > is?"
> > > > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> > -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> 
> 
> 

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
192

From: kencn@a...
Date: Sun Feb 11, 2001 1:04am
Subject: More in the endless list of suggestions

 
Jeff, 

I have a few suggestions that you could throw on the pile - know 
you're busy.

I generally don't like command strokes that use punctuation 
characters (the expand and collapse all in Shadow's case).  I don't 
know if the PalmOS supports it but cmd-space and cmd-backspace would 
be more convenient, IMHO.

On a related topic, how about also having expand and collapse all 
commands that work one level at a time?

I rarely, if ever, use more than 2 or 3 lines on the details screen 
for entering text.  Howabout reducing the size of that area and 
moving some things from the options screen to the details screen to 
cut down on the navigation?

Finally, when you get around to adding user fields, how about one 
that you can enter numeric values in and have Shadow rollup the 
totals of the child values to the parents. You could have the 
totalling sensitive to filters that are in effect to limit what gets 
totalled. I think it could come in handy for a lot of things.

Well, that's all for now.

Ken
193

From: demetrios@c...
Date: Sun Feb 11, 2001 0:29pm
Subject: Re: More in the endless list of suggestions

 
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., kencn@a... wrote:
> Jeff, 
> 
> I have a few suggestions that you could throw on the pile - know 
> you're busy.
> 
> I generally don't like command strokes that use punctuation 
> characters (the expand and collapse all in Shadow's case).  I don't 
> know if the PalmOS supports it but cmd-space and cmd-backspace 
would 
> be more convenient, IMHO.
> 

   I too would like to see the expand/collapse strokes as something a 
little easier. For some reason, those two particular strokes give me 
fits. How about stroke z for collapse {some of the other such 
programs that I have gone through to get here have that one} or some 
such. Something easier than > or < 'cuz, those two in particular are  
a real pain, for me anyway.

As always Jeff, thanks for such great work,

Demetrios, 
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?
194

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Sun Feb 11, 2001 6:30pm
Subject: Re: More in the endless list of suggestions

 
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:

> I generally don't like command strokes that use punctuation 
> characters (the expand and collapse all in Shadow's case).  I don't 
> know if the PalmOS supports it but cmd-space and cmd-backspace would 
> be more convenient, IMHO.

	These will definitely change.

> On a related topic, how about also having expand and collapse all 
> commands that work one level at a time?

	If you use zoom, it limits the effects of these
operations. Keyboard control now allows level expand/collapse. I don't
have a menu item or shortcut planned.. I'm worried about getting menu
overload :)

> I rarely, if ever, use more than 2 or 3 lines on the details screen 
> for entering text.  Howabout reducing the size of that area and 
> moving some things from the options screen to the details screen to 
> cut down on the navigation?

	Maybe; as needed I'll do this, but so far I've got most of the
option things on the detail screen, and kept link options on the option
screen, since many more are to come.. (link to DOC, address book, etc)

> Finally, when you get around to adding user fields, how about one 
> that you can enter numeric values in and have Shadow rollup the 
> totals of the child values to the parents. You could have the 
> totalling sensitive to filters that are in effect to limit what gets 
> totalled. I think it could come in handy for a lot of things.

	Interesting thought; remind me afte I get user fields ;) I'm
planning on just a simple user text field, and a optional column (small or
large) to display it, with no Shadow interpretation. That gets into a lot
of complicated options... (functions, summation, screen totals.. ugh :)

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
195

From: lists@t...
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 4:27am
Subject: Newest Versions

 
I downloaded 1.46 from the alpha section tonight. To my dismay I did 
not find the usual list of changes in the archive.

How can I find out what's changed since 1.40?
196

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 12, 2001 0:37pm
Subject: Re: Newest Versions

 
On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 lists@t... wrote:

> I downloaded 1.46 from the alpha section tonight. To my dismay I did 
> not find the usual list of changes in the archive.
> 
> How can I find out what's changed since 1.40?

	For these versions, it is best to follow the -test dialog; they
are not released to public. I'll be doing the normal change-logs for
future alphas, but for most of these guys the changes were all behind the
scenes. (ie. After 1.4.0, there was 1.4.5 and 1.4.6, thats it).

	The main changes were in the database system I use.. it is now
more flexible (since in the original format I didn't anticipate some of
the requests I got) and allows for a big speed boost when I get the chance
(and some people will experience 10-15% speedups already). I'll be
able to more easily add global find and such now.

	1.4.6 includes support for the conduit and some minor
keyboard improvements and bug fixes have occurred. The conduit is
currently backup->SML only.. available in alpha soon. Then its work on
tools to convert SML -> MSWord and MSProject, and then onto two-way sync..

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
197

From: cfralick@i...
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 4:26am
Subject: Feature Request?

 
I'm not sure if this has been suggested before or not but, I would 
like to see a command stroke to uncheck a list.
198

From: buch2001@u...
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 10:23am
Subject: Exporting Function

 
Jeff,
Really like this program; like so many others, I registered it about 
15 minutes after I downloaded it. You and CESD have an excellent way 
of providing support.

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but I would really 
like to see a more robust export of the data, i.e. Progect. Sometimes 
it is easier to see  the complete tree on paper, and more detail 
would certainly be helpful. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet, so let me 
just give an example:

Progect:[100%] Admin Office
		[x] (12/28/00) Clean
		[x] (12/28/00) Turn in to Army
	[ ] [2] (2/13/01) Attached Equip List to HHC

Shadow:Admin Office
		 Clean
		 Turn in to Army
	 Attached Equip List to HHC

I know you are trying not to take other people's ideas, but this is 
is one that would be very useful I think. I might be missing 
something on how to export this in shadow similarly though. 

Superb product!

Warm Regards,
gary

Gary
199

From: buch2001@u...
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 11:37am
Subject: Re: Exporting Function

 
Should have looked back a couple of posts! Sorry to have needlessly 
bothered you.

Gary
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., buch2001@u... wrote:
> Jeff,
> Really like this program; like so many others, I registered it 
about 
> 15 minutes after I downloaded it. You and CESD have an excellent 
way 
> of providing support.
> 
> I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but I would really 
> like to see a more robust export of the data, i.e. Progect. 
Sometimes 
> it is easier to see  the complete tree on paper, and more detail 
> would certainly be helpful. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet, so let 
me 
> just give an example:
> 
> Progect:[100%] Admin Office
> 		[x] (12/28/00) Clean
> 		[x] (12/28/00) Turn in to Army
> 	[ ] [2] (2/13/01) Attached Equip List to HHC
> 
> Shadow:Admin Office
> 		 Clean
> 		 Turn in to Army
> 	 Attached Equip List to HHC
> 
> I know you are trying not to take other people's ideas, but this is 
> is one that would be very useful I think. I might be missing 
> something on how to export this in shadow similarly though. 
> 
> Superb product!
> 
> Warm Regards,
> gary
> 
> Gary
200

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 0:48pm
Subject: Re: Feature Request?

 
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:

> I'm not sure if this has been suggested before or not but, I would 
> like to see a command stroke to uncheck a list. 

	There is a mewu item for that; if it doesn't have a stroke.. any
suggestions? And do you need it so often as to have a shortcut associated
to it?

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
201

From: Jeff Mitchell  <support@s...>
Date: Wed Feb 14, 2001 0:58pm
Subject: Re: Exporting Function

 
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 buch2001@u... wrote:

> Really like this program; like so many others, I registered it about 
> 15 minutes after I downloaded it. You and CESD have an excellent way 
> of providing support.

	Glad you dig it :)

> I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but I would really 
> like to see a more robust export of the data, i.e. Progect. Sometimes 
> it is easier to see  the complete tree on paper, and more detail 

	I know this is lacking; I've been working on making Shadow more
robust and on the conduit for the last couple of weeks. I have a backup
conduit now which dumps all your lists into XML files, and I and various
others are working on translators from XML into other things (like MSWord
and MSPRoject). That ought to help a lot. Eventually, two-way sync, too.

		jeff

--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
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