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| 101 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Tue Jan 30, 2001 10:08pm
Subject: Re: One Other Option that Would Help - Display Date
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| |
On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 chodges@f... wrote:
> One other option that would helpis if Shadow could display the target
> date on the main list. That way the user could see the due dates for
> tasks to be completed. If you take my previous example with the
> progress bar it would look like this:
Change the list to a custom view, and then enable the columns you
wish. So go to the list prefs, change the list type to Custom, and hit the
Custom button. From there you can turn on a target date column if you
like.
jeff
>
> - Version 1.1 3/9/2001 (Progress bar)
> - New features 2/16/2001 (Progress bar)
> 1- Portfolio implementation (No progress bar)
> 2- Portfolio extraction (No progress bar)
> - Issues 2/22/2001 (Progress bar)
> 1- Multi-dimensional items (No progress bar)
> 2- Name conflicts in entity searching (No progress bar)
> - Version 1.2 4/15/2001 (Progress bar)
> - New features 4/5/2001 (Progress bar)
> 1 - Good stuff (No progress bar)
> 2 - Bad stuff (No progress bar)
> - Issues 4/10/2001 (Progress bar)
> 1 - Fix everything else (No progress bar)
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Christopher Hodges
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 102 |
From: chodges@f...
Date: Tue Jan 30, 2001 10:34pm
Subject: Re: One Other Option that Would Help - Display Date
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| |
> Change the list to a custom view, and then enable the columns
you
> wish. So go to the list prefs, change the list type to Custom, and
hit the
> Custom button. From there you can turn on a target date column if
you
> like.
>
> jeff
Duh!! I totally forgot about that option. Sorry. Works great.
Chris
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| 103 |
From: tommyb@i...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 0:04am
Subject: Re: Shadow suggestion
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I think that the bold button should appear in both locations.
Changing color and bolding a font are frequently done at the same
time. It shouldn't hurt to have them in 2 places, since there's
plenty of screen real estate in the detail window. I create tasks
with the default black and normal font. At a later time, I color and
bold, to increase attention. It should be easy to update - that's
why the option details page was such a good idea. (when hilight gets
more definable options, I might be able to let it change colors for
me - right now the options don't fit my style)
> > 1. add a bold button to the item options page.
>
> Hmm. I'm in debate about that -- I now have colour option on
the Option window, and the detail window (to be really conveniant).
Should I put bold onto the option window as well, or should both
options just be in details?
**********************************************************************
Well, I see your point - but would anyone really be alarmed long?
After all, you would either end up directly in item options, or see a
menu pointing to it. And not to put too fine a point on it, but
those who might be alarmed at this type of behavior are not going to
add any software to their Palm anyway. Most users use the default
apps. ShadowPlan, no matter how easy to use, is going to be used by
people with at least a bit of initiative.....
> > 2. when in the task list, and showing the link arrow column...
> > if there are no links, and the only choice is "item options",
> > let a click take you directly to item options, without showing
> > the one-item menu We talked about this sort of thing a couple
months back; it was decided by everyone that a consistant UI is
better than a usually-consistant-but-not-always one. Though I'm open
to others suggestions. But it coudl alarm people to have it act
differently for some of their linked items..
*************************************************************
I do appreciate that you note suggestions and state your reasons for
the direction you choose to develop. You can't please everyone, and
you are bound to receive lots of conflicting ideas.
tommyb
|
| 104 |
From: ianf@e...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 7:24am
Subject: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?
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| |
Hi,
I'm trying out Shadow 1.4.0r.
It seems very poweful... I wonder if it would
be possible, though, to save on screen real estate
by inlining some of the details? For example, if I
have columns for both target date and progress, the
width left available for text becomes quite restricted.
Also, not all entries have dates or bars, leading to
wasted space. Could the bars and dates be included
after the bullets (at the beginning of the item names)
on the lhs of the screen?
Other smaller things I'd like to see are categories
for sub-items (or at least for the Todos, so that the
cat can be set without having to leave Shadow), and an
option to automatically filter out the DB4 comment strings
(should be documented and easy to automatically identify...?)
Thanks much,
- Ian.
|
| 105 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:39pm
Subject: Re: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?
|
| |
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 ianf@e... wrote:
Woa, lots here :)
> It seems very poweful... I wonder if it would
> be possible, though, to save on screen real estate
> by inlining some of the details? For example, if I
> have columns for both target date and progress, the
> width left available for text becomes quite restricted.
> Also, not all entries have dates or bars, leading to
> wasted space. Could the bars and dates be included
> after the bullets (at the beginning of the item names)
> on the lhs of the screen?
It could be done this way, but doesn't this destroy the document
structure? (ie: Text indenting at different levels, so that you cannot
immediately view how far indented something is, without thinking about it
for a sec)? I could perhaps make an ption to put certain things on another
line.. *shrug* (like progress bar below target date, or something)
> Other smaller things I'd like to see are categories
> for sub-items (or at least for the Todos, so that the
> cat can be set without having to leave Shadow), and an
In working on the conduit, I have made possible the option to
categorize individual shadow items. If people want it, I can build
it.. though setting the cat for an item would be done on the Details
window, which might be awkward. I'd also have ot add sorting and
filtering, and perhaps another custom-optional column..
> option to automatically filter out the DB4 comment strings
> (should be documented and easy to automatically identify...?)
This was brought up in the past.. its a neat idea. I'm leaving it
until later, since its DB4 specific and I'm trying to work on things that
affect everybody still. There is a pref to hide all notes, in case the
only notes you have are DB4 extensions..
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 106 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:23pm
Subject: Still more ideas....
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| |
Jeff,
thanks for your efforts you spend for making us happy. We should stay
quiet a little and let you work on the features we requested :)
Actually, I myself just joint the shadow club - have been using
ListMaker for quite a while but some of your concepts fit better for
everyday use....
Anyway, good programs also force thoughts about even increased
usability - here a two
1. Inter-Shadow links on a per-record basis
Instead of linking to a Shadow database, one should be able to link
to a specific topic in a selected database, i.e. the database opens
on selection and jumps to the linked item (on top? highlighted?).
A "Back" button should be provided.
The Tap and Hold could be extended so that source items would be
visible or even selectable.
It could come, in the end to a "web-like" structure, like the one in
the PersonalBrain of http://www.thebrain.com , a tremenduous tool to
manage unordered collections of "thoughts". (in fact, they announced
a palm edition, but never made it...)
Top favourite, of course, would be selection of records out of other
dbs. I didn't have a too close look into Palm's API, but wouldn't it
be possible to identify "foreign" record ids out of a "Find" result
and pass this back to a foreign app somehow? Just thinking...
2. Templates
If you know ListMaker, you know what I mean - you sometimes have
scenarios where predefined, non-trivial items would be handy.
It's kind of a form-like approach, filling the labelled sub-items the
template provides.
E.g. when collecting software license key infos: Just enter "New item"
and you would get a new Node "Software:", including child
nodes "Vendor Site:", "Purchase Date:", "License Key:" and so on. You
could decide to enter specific values, add additional child nodes or
delete predefined ones. Very helpful to structure collection lists,
libraries etc.
Of course, this could be achieved with copy & paste from a dedicated
template database within Shadow, but too many clicks (taps :)...
what do you think?
regards
Martin
|
| 107 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Still more ideas....
|
| |
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:
> thanks for your efforts you spend for making us happy. We should stay
> quiet a little and let you work on the features we requested :)
Everyone has been quiet (thankfully this round :) -- we were
having like 30-100 emails a day for awhile coming through the lists.. the
last week has been like 20 total. But thats good, since I'm redoing a lot
of nasty stuff.
> Actually, I myself just joint the shadow club - have been using
> ListMaker for quite a while but some of your concepts fit better for
> everyday use....
And more to come. But ListMaker really is a nifty app, with a lot
of great stuff in it.
> 1. Inter-Shadow links on a per-record basis
> Instead of linking to a Shadow database, one should be able to link
> to a specific topic in a selected database, i.e. the database opens
> on selection and jumps to the linked item (on top? highlighted?).
This is planned, but I've not determined a good UI way to do it; I
was thinking of eventually supporting split-screen, so you could open a
second list, and then linking would be an easy tap, operation tap. But
you've given me an idea.. maybe have a "link to other item" option, and
you pick a shadow list, and then it lists off all the top-level-items on
that list so that you can pick one to link to. Not a fine granularity, but
not bad. Theres a lot of ideras in this boat though.. so I might leave it
for awhile, so that when I get to it, we can go and make a lot of good
task-dependancy decisions at once.
> A "Back" button should be provided.
A "recently visited files" list will be added soon.. maybe onto
the end of the View popmenu, or as another popmenu, or somethign. So you
can jump to any of the last visited 5 lists or something.
> The Tap and Hold could be extended so that source items would be
> visible or even selectable.
Source items?
> Top favourite, of course, would be selection of records out of other
> dbs. I didn't have a too close look into Palm's API, but wouldn't it
> be possible to identify "foreign" record ids out of a "Find" result
> and pass this back to a foreign app somehow? Just thinking...
There are lots of possibilities.. I've just not gotten into that
yet, since its a big step. I'd like to do it whole hog, and not half
way. So I'm working on polishing other open-ended items first (like
atggign and categortizing items, global find, better filters, etc).
> If you know ListMaker, you know what I mean - you sometimes have
> scenarios where predefined, non-trivial items would be handy.
> It's kind of a form-like approach, filling the labelled sub-items the
> template provides.
Different types of templates have been discussed; perhaps a Shadow
file where each top level item is the name of a template, and its children
are the template details. Then an easy copy/paste mechanism (easier than
opening the other file to do it), and maybe a relative-date handler or
something. We need to talk about this more.
Sorry for my rush.. but my philosophy is to get you guys talking
about things, and once we've all hashed out a Good Idea [tm], I'll add it
in. If I make all the decisions, it slows down devel,opment, and means its
an app designed for me.. and I'm an outliner wimp ;)
These are all good ideas.. so if you can get some template
discussions going on, I'll help out and we can get something nailed down
:)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 108 |
From: ianf@e...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:53pm
Subject:
|
| |
|
| 109 |
From: demetrios@c...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:38pm
Subject: My Two Cents Worth
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1-No children = No progress, maybe just a checkspot, love those btw.
a-Wherever you put it, I'd like to see the Bold button toggle bold,
even if the "Always bold title(not memo)" is checked. While I'm in
this area of the program, I'd like to say I love the inline notes!
A-As to Tommy's request, how about going the other way? Instead of a
One-item menu, could you put more items in the menu? If not, then I
agree with him, no real reson for a one-item menu.
i-Ian's isea of inlining I like. If you have "supress title word
wrap" checked, you could single tap to highlight/expand the line and
still double tap would take you to details. I really hate having to
go into the details screen to see what all the title says.
I- Any idea why it takes so long to get into and navigate around
within Shadow? I only have 4 Lists @ about 60K and only 26 records {I
used the built-in Info screen, and I don't know what it considers
records, but I thought I hade a lot more then that, unless it doesn't
count childern as records} Anyway, it just seems like it acts and
reacts very slowlygoing in and out of the lists as well as the
program it'self.
If you've made it this far let say I'm sorry for going on so, but
it's easier for me to do it this way as opposed to a bunch of replies.
Oh well, that's all I can think of right now so I'll let you go.
Any Comments?
Demetrios,
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?
|
| 110 |
From: web_egroups@r...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:40pm
Subject: Re: Suppress Progress on Children Suggestion
|
| |
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 chodges@f... wrote:
>
> > One feature that would be nice if to have an option that would
> > suppress the progress on children that don't have their own
> > children.
> > This option currently seems to be an all-or-nothing proposition.
> > Let me illustrate what I'm proposing:
> Anyone else with comments? Theres been a few suggestions around
> this sort of thing.. anyone have any other ideas on good rules for
> supressing progress bars where not needed?
>
> Something like this should go in.. I can change the existing pref
> to be more useful.
I think that suppressing the progress bars on individual tasks would
be nice as long as it didn't make the UI too cluttered. ShadowPlan
already has a lot of options, and you don't want to make the program
so customizable that it is unusable without reading the manual.
Having said that, if it is easy to do, I think that having an option
to generate the progress bars automatically would be nice. For
instance, if a task has four components, then the progress bar for
the task could automatically fill in 25% increments as each component
was completed. Alternately, if the components were set to finish on a
certain date then the progress bar could be updated as time passed.
Jim
|
| 111 |
From: web_egroups@r...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 4:00pm
Subject: Relative vs absolute dates
|
| |
I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use
relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have
several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a
completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task
and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get
rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the
following tasks.
What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n
days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date
is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be
set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until
it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based
off the task duration) would be set.
For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and
have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The
active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target
drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a
relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance,
assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user
changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to
3 days from now.
Jim
|
| 112 |
From: demetrios@c...
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 4:57pm
Subject: My Two Cents Worth
|
| |
Ok, a couple of suggestions/requests:
1-Could the Bold button, wherever you end up putting it, toggle the
bold, even if you chose "Always bold title". Also , please leave it
on the details page, wether you put it on the options page or not.
b-Ian's idea of inlining the text for the description/title/item,
like it is for notes, would be great. Though I don't like the part
about moving the colums around. Like Jeff replied, it would just make
it all messy. You could put it all on another line so it could be
gotten to by way of the inlining tap.
C-About the "link arrow column", if the one-item menu is no good, why
not just add more choices for that menu? Otherwise I agree that
consistent is better than "usually-consistant-but-not-always".
Well, that's all I can think of right now. Except to again complement
Jeff and to thank him for being so accessable and responsive to our
comments, thanks.
Demetrios,
VisionMaster@C...
Are You too, a Captive of the Visions?
|
| 113 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 5:53pm
Subject: Re: My Two Cents Worth
|
| |
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:
> 1-Could the Bold button, wherever you end up putting it, toggle the
> bold, even if you chose "Always bold title". Also , please leave it
> on the details page, wether you put it on the options page or not.
Hmm. Opinions? Would this qualift as
"usually-consistant-but-not-always"? :)
> Well, that's all I can think of right now. Except to again complement
> Jeff and to thank him for being so accessable and responsive to our
> comments, thanks.
Thanks :) The way I see it.. it takes time, but not *that* much
time, to be responsive and available. And its certainly a better
experience for all of us, so is worth doing. Now if only fewer
developers, providers, companies, etc were less lazy :/
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 114 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 3:12am
Subject: Re: Relative vs absolute dates
|
| |
A few people have brought this up recently. What sort of relative
options are needed? (ie: Are relative items always short, ot can they be
long? Do I need a fast selector with 1,2,5,7 days, 1, 2, 3 months, 1,2, 3
weeks, and "pick from comprehensive" which would allow oyu to specify
arbitrary dayes/units?
Its an interesting idea. I've CC'd shadow-discuss mailing list
(as well as forum) to get maximum exposure..
jeff
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:
> I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use
> relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have
> several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a
> completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task
> and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get
> rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the
> following tasks.
>
> What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n
> days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date
> is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be
> set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until
> it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based
> off the task duration) would be set.
>
> For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and
> have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The
> active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target
> drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a
> relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance,
> assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user
> changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to
> 3 days from now.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 115 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 3:14am
Subject: Re: Re: Suppress Progress on Children Suggestion
|
| |
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:
> I think that suppressing the progress bars on individual tasks would
> be nice as long as it didn't make the UI too cluttered. ShadowPlan
> already has a lot of options, and you don't want to make the program
> so customizable that it is unusable without reading the manual.
I will be adding an option, as suggested, to "suppress progress
for items without children", I think. I'm not worrying about it just yet,
due to the conduit work and restructuring.. but its on my todo list and
will come soon :)
> Having said that, if it is easy to do, I think that having an option
> to generate the progress bars automatically would be nice. For
> instance, if a task has four components, then the progress bar for
> the task could automatically fill in 25% increments as each component
> was completed. Alternately, if the components were set to finish on a
> certain date then the progress bar could be updated as time passed.
Is this needed and useful? Usually folks will set up subtasks, and
then set the progress for them, if they've gotten aywhere.. automatically
averaging them on creation may be goofy?
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 116 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 3:46am
Subject: Re: My Two Cents Worth
|
| |
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:
> a-Wherever you put it, I'd like to see the Bold button toggle bold,
> even if the "Always bold title(not memo)" is checked. While I'm in
> this area of the program, I'd like to say I love the inline notes!
Is this a good idea? Anyone?
> A-As to Tommy's request, how about going the other way? Instead of a
> One-item menu, could you put more items in the menu? If not, then I
> agree with him, no real reson for a one-item menu.
UI consistancy is a very good reason. Adding items for no reaosn
is a bad idea, but if we have items worht adding, let me know :)
> i-Ian's isea of inlining I like. If you have "supress title word
> wrap" checked, you could single tap to highlight/expand the line and
> still double tap would take you to details. I really hate having to
> go into the details screen to see what all the title says.
Yeah; I'll be adding so if you tap the "..." then it will expand
the title text. How to collapse it again, though? (put a ... at the end,
to tap on? Or a little arrow-up at the end?)
> I- Any idea why it takes so long to get into and navigate around
> within Shadow? I only have 4 Lists @ about 60K and only 26 records {I
> used the built-in Info screen, and I don't know what it considers
> records, but I thought I hade a lot more then that, unless it doesn't
> count childern as records} Anyway, it just seems like it acts and
> reacts very slowlygoing in and out of the lists as well as the
> program it'self.
Its due to the caching technique used; I'm changing the way that
works over the next few versions.. I'd like to make opening a list REALLY
FAST, and working in Shadow as fast as always, and exitting a list the
slow part, if its to be slow at all. Versions over the next few weeks may
change the speeds a lot (for the better!)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 117 |
From: kencn@a...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 4:13am
Subject: Shadow Plan Suggestions
|
| |
Jeff,
Let me add my compliments to all the others you've been getting.
Shadow Plan really is a marvelous application. I've been using
Progect for several months and watching your program with interest.
The latest release is too much to resist so I registered today.
I have a few suggestions. Actually, I had a lot of others but
browsing this message board revealed that most have been suggested
and many are in the works. Sorry if these are repeats too:
1. With the zoom function, how about displaying the text of the
parent in the title bar (like Progect) so you have a point of
reference. I would also include the numbering if numbering is turned
on.
2. I would really love to see the ability to enter outline entries
directly on the screen rather than through a full screen dialog box.
Bonsai's approach is the best though I'm sure it messes up some of
your UI design. Perhaps an option to have a small dialog box pop up
like Brainforest so you could enter the text but still see some of
the surrounding outline items.
3. Could you consider an option to export directly to a DOC file -
for exporting longer outlines. Also an option control which data
fields (priority, due date, memo, etc.) actually get exported would
be nice.
Thanks.
Ken
|
| 118 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 4:18am
Subject: Re: Shadow Plan Suggestions
|
| |
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:
> 1. With the zoom function, how about displaying the text of the
> parent in the title bar (like Progect) so you have a point of
> reference. I would also include the numbering if numbering is turned
> on.
This will definitely happen, but feel free to keep reminding
me. Due to the conduit, ym todo list is getting huge and backed up :)
> 2. I would really love to see the ability to enter outline entries
> directly on the screen rather than through a full screen dialog box.
> Bonsai's approach is the best though I'm sure it messes up some of
> your UI design. Perhaps an option to have a small dialog box pop up
> like Brainforest so you could enter the text but still see some of
> the surrounding outline items.
Hmm. Intyeresting thought there. I am planning on eventually
having an on-screen edit,using the built-in Palm widget.. but it
complicates the display so I'm leaving it for now. 99% of peopel seem
happy, though I'msure theres a silent 15% or so in there :)
> 3. Could you consider an option to export directly to a DOC file -
> for exporting longer outlines. Also an option control which data
> fields (priority, due date, memo, etc.) actually get exported would
> be nice.
Imp/Exp via DOc is very planned, as is a much improved filter
content.
Gotta run!
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 119 |
From: Ian Frank <ianf@e...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 4:54am
Subject: Re: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?
|
| |
> It could be done this way, but doesn't this destroy the
> document structure? (ie: Text indenting at different levels, so
> that you cannot immediately view how far indented something is,
> without thinking about it for a sec)? I could perhaps make an
> ption to put certain things on another line.. *shrug* (like
> progress bar below target date, or something)
Sorry, I guess I didn't explain this too well.
Let me try to create an ASCII example (just guessing
at the width of the Palm screen):
v o Example entry with a long --/--
name
- o Child with a date 31/01
- o Child with a date and 31/07
a much, much, longer
name
Here, the 'v' is supposed to be the arrow icon for an expanded node,
the 'o' is a check bullet, etc. There's a date column, but it takes up
space because 1) it's not needed for all items, and 2) even items that
do have a date take up more space now if they're longer than two
lines. The "inline" alternative might look like:
v o Example entry with a long name
- o [31/01]Child with a date
- o [31/07]Child with a date and
a much, much, longer name
This takes up less space, and could be done for the progrees bars too
(just place them directly before the text of an item). Not sure what
should be done for items with no date (leave blank as above, or maybe
include a calendar icon?) I'm sure it's harder to code inline dates
and progress bars this way (eg, the stylus taps to pick the calendar
or prgress bar are no longer in a well-defined column), but I think it
would really increase the readability of custom lists (esp when date
and progress are being displayed together).
Thanks,
- Ian.
|
| 120 |
From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 6:33am
Subject: Date Display / Date Format
|
| |
Date Display:
Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the
year on the line below Month-Day.
MM-DD
YYYY
I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no
indication it was over a year a way.
======
Date Format:
I am all for an inline display of the dates. But I would ask that
YYYY-MM-DD &/or YYYY/MM-DD be an options.
Higher numbers are always later. Visa versa for lower numbers.
Comment: My first use of an outliner was as a PIM. I entered all my
appointments with date and time formatted as YYYY-MM-DD-HH-mm and
sorted entries on the first 16 digits. Because I was using an
outliner I could add an extensive organized and organizable notes to
comments to appointment.
Crude by todays standards, but it was a God send at the time.
|
| 121 |
From: peter.grierson@s...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 6:37am
Subject: Links [Bookmarks in Yahoo speak]
|
| |
You might want to add a link to your home page. I am sure there are
other links that the members would find useful. I just have not been
around long enough to suggest them.
|
| 122 |
From: (unknown)
Date: Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Inline dates/progress instead of columns?
|
| |
Thanks for the response. Hope to see the categories and DB4
note filters sometime. As for the inlining of dates and other
columns:
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
>
> It could be done this way, but doesn't this destroy the
> document structure? (ie: Text indenting at different levels,
> so that you cannot immediately view how far indented something
> is, without thinking about it for a sec)? I could perhaps make
> an option to put certain things on another
> line.. *shrug* (like progress bar below target date, or something)
Sorry, I guess I didn't explain this v well...
Let me try to make an ASCII example:
v 1 o Test entry with a long --/--
name
- o Child 31/01
- o Another child with 22/02
a longer name --- i
n fact, much, much
longer
Here, the first 'v' is supposed to be the arrow icon, the '1'
is a priority, and the 'o' is a check circle, etc. This view
has a date column on the right, which takes up a bit of space,
and isn't needed for all the entries (I didn't enter this into
Shadow, so the line breaks are just a guess...) But the space
can be reclaimed if the list is rendered as:
v 1 o Test entry with a long name
- o [31/01] Child
- o [22/02] Another child with
a longer name --- in fact,
much, much longer
The same "in-lining" could be used for progress bars. I guess
this isn't easy to do, because the places where pen taps have to
activate the progress bars or date pickers are now no longer in
a simple column... Also there's the question of what to do when
an item has no date (blank as above, or include a small calendar
icon?). Still, I thought I'd ask anyway... :)
Thanks,
- Ian.
From: ianf@e...
|
| 123 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 11:53am
Subject: Re: Still more ideas....
|
| |
> > 1. Inter-Shadow links on a per-record basis
> > Instead of linking to a Shadow database, one should be able to
link
> > to a specific topic in a selected database, i.e. the database
opens
> > on selection and jumps to the linked item (on top? highlighted?).
>
> This is planned, but I've not determined a good UI way to do
it; I
> was thinking of eventually supporting split-screen, so you could
open a
> second list, and then linking would be an easy tap, operation tap.
But
> you've given me an idea.. maybe have a "link to other item" option,
and
> you pick a shadow list, and then it lists off all the top-level-
items on
> that list so that you can pick one to link to. Not a fine
granularity, but
> not bad. Theres a lot of ideras in this boat though.. so I might
leave it
> for awhile, so that when I get to it, we can go and make a lot of
good
> task-dependancy decisions at once.
>
> > A "Back" button should be provided.
>
> A "recently visited files" list will be added soon.. maybe
onto
> the end of the View popmenu, or as another popmenu, or somethign.
So you
> can jump to any of the last visited 5 lists or something.
>
> > The Tap and Hold could be extended so that source items would be
> > visible or even selectable.
>
> Source items?
>
My idea was to provide a double-linked structure to enable the "way
back"
---- Screen for MyFile DB:
o MySourceItem ->
(The Item Options Popup displays:
----------------------
->AnotherShadowFile/AnotherItem
Item Options
----------------------
)
----Screen for AnotherShadowFile DB:
o AnotherItem <-
(The left-pointing arrow indicates "Source" items. Either the Item
Options popup displays
----------------------
<-MyFile/MySourceItem
Item Options
----------------------
or the tap-and-hold screen of "Another Item" displays
------------------------------
Target Date: ...
Start Date: ...
Finish Date: ...
Link: ...
Source Link: MyFile/MyItem
DB Links: ...
------------------------------
)
> > Top favourite, of course, would be selection of records out of
other
> > dbs. I didn't have a too close look into Palm's API, but wouldn't
it
> > be possible to identify "foreign" record ids out of a "Find"
result
> > and pass this back to a foreign app somehow? Just thinking...
>
> There are lots of possibilities.. I've just not gotten into
that
> yet, since its a big step. I'd like to do it whole hog, and not half
> way. So I'm working on polishing other open-ended items first (like
> atggign and categortizing items, global find, better filters, etc).
>
very much agreed :)
|
| 124 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 0:08pm
Subject: Re: My Two Cents Worth
|
| |
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 demetrios@c... wrote:
>
> > 1-Could the Bold button, wherever you end up putting it, toggle
the
> > bold, even if you chose "Always bold title". Also , please leave
it
> > on the details page, wether you put it on the options page or not.
>
> Hmm. Opinions? Would this qualift as
> "usually-consistant-but-not-always"? :)
>
It would be consistant if the Bold button would disappear from the
screen when "Always Bold" is selected from the display preferences.
Maybe we find a solution if we reconsider the original intention (I
wasn't Shadow user then). Was it to distinct titles from inline
notes? Then, the request to toggle "bold" per item would be a
violation of the separation principle. Later, the toggle mode might
have been considered an option to differentiate items from other
items in the list manually (i.e. "important" vs "not important"), as
the highlight menu does for given conditions automatically.
Two conflicting goals if both use the same layout representation.
Other idea: What if the display preference "Always bold title" would
be replaced by "Distinct title and note", and would lead to another
optical distinction, e.g. a frame drawn around the expanded note
text?
Then, both goals (individual highlighting _and_ title/note
distinction) could be fulfilled....
Now its $0.04 :)
> > Well, that's all I can think of right now. Except to again
complement
> > Jeff and to thank him for being so accessable and responsive to
our
> > comments, thanks.
>
> Thanks :) The way I see it.. it takes time, but not *that*
much
> time, to be responsive and available. And its certainly a better
> experience for all of us, so is worth doing. Now if only fewer
> developers, providers, companies, etc were less lazy :/
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 125 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 0:38pm
Subject: Maxtrix organisation
|
| |
idea contest:
How do Shadow users solve the cross-categorzing problem?
E.g. one category "Travel", sureley has a list "Links" with URLs
being of interest when you want to travel.
But, having a category "Links" as well, you could be tempted to have
a "Travel" list in there with (hopefully :) ) the same contents....
- Duplicate items?
- Create Link items in one list, pointing to the other?
- Create some kind of "overlay", pointing to the same data always?
It's a redundancy problem I never solved really with hierarchical
outliners, mind map tools etc.
-martin
|
| 126 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 0:30pm
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format
|
| |
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., peter.grierson@s... wrote:
>
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display
the
> year on the line below Month-Day.
>
> MM-DD
> YYYY
>
Good idea to include the year.
However, I would prefer this as an display preference option ("Toggle
Year Display in Dates"), and would display the year in one line.
Some proposals in the discussion list mention a second line for
additional information - I wouldn't advise. You lose space for
the "content" unconditionally, even if the meta-data is of no
interest in a specific situation, and the layout gets fuzzy.
> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no
> indication it was over a year a way.
>
> ======
> Date Format:
> I am all for an inline display of the dates. But I would ask that
> YYYY-MM-DD &/or YYYY/MM-DD be an options.
>
Think about other date representations, europeans do it "reverse".
My Palm shows "1.02" today when dates are displayed in the list.
> Higher numbers are always later. Visa versa for lower numbers.
>
> Comment: My first use of an outliner was as a PIM. I entered all
my
> appointments with date and time formatted as YYYY-MM-DD-HH-mm and
> sorted entries on the first 16 digits. Because I was using an
> outliner I could add an extensive organized and organizable notes
to
> comments to appointment.
>
> Crude by todays standards, but it was a God send at the time.
|
| 128 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 1:28pm
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format
|
| |
Hmm. This gets complicated by localized preferences. So shoudl I
add an option to include year in the target date column? Sounds like a
good request, so I could add it.
jeff
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:
>
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the
> year on the line below Month-Day.
>
> MM-DD
> YYYY
>
> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no
> indication it was over a year a way.
>
> ======
> Date Format:
> I am all for an inline display of the dates. But I would ask that
> YYYY-MM-DD &/or YYYY/MM-DD be an options.
>
> Higher numbers are always later. Visa versa for lower numbers.
>
> Comment: My first use of an outliner was as a PIM. I entered all my
> appointments with date and time formatted as YYYY-MM-DD-HH-mm and
> sorted entries on the first 16 digits. Because I was using an
> outliner I could add an extensive organized and organizable notes to
> comments to appointment.
>
> Crude by todays standards, but it was a God send at the time.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 129 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 1:33pm
Subject: Re: Links [Bookmarks in Yahoo speak]
|
| |
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 peter.grierson@s... wrote:
> You might want to add a link to your home page. I am sure there are
> other links that the members would find useful. I just have not been
> around long enough to suggest them.
A link from egroups/yahoo to my homepages? A good idea I think. Do
most peopel come across the mailing list from egroups/yahoo, or from my
webpage to start with?
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 130 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 1:54pm
Subject: Re: Re: My Two Cents Worth
|
| |
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:
> It would be consistant if the Bold button would disappear from the
> screen when "Always Bold" is selected from the display preferences.
heh.
> Maybe we find a solution if we reconsider the original intention (I
> wasn't Shadow user then). Was it to distinct titles from inline
> notes? Then, the request to toggle "bold" per item would be a
> violation of the separation principle. Later, the toggle mode might
> have been considered an option to differentiate items from other
> items in the list manually (i.e. "important" vs "not important"), as
> the highlight menu does for given conditions automatically.
The original intention was two-fold; the one you missed was that
bold is easier to read for those with "mature" (or bleery tired!) eyes. So
a few people requested it to help them read items. At the same time, it is
useful for distinguishing title-text fro notes, for people who use many
and long notes.. like journalists or essay writers or book authors or the
like, where they might be scrolling up or down 5 screens to find a
title. Bolding them all is helpful.
The [B] request is a request to bold an item not normally
bolded. These operations overlap, but I have no problem with that. ie: On
a tight list, notes all collapses, with all titles bold, the display is
muddy, and [B] active coudl de-bold an item, thus providing an
anti-hilight of sorts. But it makes sense to my mind to have the two ways
bold an item. If either one is true, bold it. *shrug*
> Two conflicting goals if both use the same layout representation.
> Other idea: What if the display preference "Always bold title" would
> be replaced by "Distinct title and note", and would lead to another
> optical distinction, e.g. a frame drawn around the expanded note
> text?
Not a good use of space, I think. But a different goal than you
thought.
> Now its $0.04 :)
I'll be bankrupt soon :)
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 131 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 2:01pm
Subject: Re: Maxtrix organisation
|
| |
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 martin_jahr@h... wrote:
> idea contest:
> How do Shadow users solve the cross-categorzing problem?
>
> E.g. one category "Travel", sureley has a list "Links" with URLs
> being of interest when you want to travel.
>
> But, having a category "Links" as well, you could be tempted to have
> a "Travel" list in there with (hopefully :) ) the same contents....
To tell you the truth, I usually just duplicate the data myself,
due to lazyness :) You coudl create links, or keep a bunch of Shadow files
with links back and forth. Suggestions have been made.. to link to
another list's *items*, so that you could jump to specific items. This
will be possible to implement soon. Its not a full solution, but woudl be
handy to simulate it in this smaller PDA context. A full solution would be
for two lists to share the same meta-list somewhere. Thats complex
though..
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 132 |
From: Jim Robbins <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 2:45pm
Subject: Re: Relative vs absolute dates
|
| |
To choose the relative date I would have something similar to your current
date chooser. So, the choices could be No Time, 1 day, 2 days, 3 days, 1
week, choose date.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <shadow-discuss@j...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Relative vs absolute dates
>
> A few people have brought this up recently. What sort of relative
> options are needed? (ie: Are relative items always short, ot can they be
> long? Do I need a fast selector with 1,2,5,7 days, 1, 2, 3 months, 1,2, 3
> weeks, and "pick from comprehensive" which would allow oyu to specify
> arbitrary dayes/units?
>
> Its an interesting idea. I've CC'd shadow-discuss mailing list
> (as well as forum) to get maximum exposure..
>
> jeff
>
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:
>
> > I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use
> > relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have
> > several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a
> > completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task
> > and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get
> > rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the
> > following tasks.
> >
> > What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n
> > days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date
> > is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be
> > set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until
> > it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based
> > off the task duration) would be set.
> >
> > For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and
> > have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The
> > active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target
> > drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a
> > relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance,
> > assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user
> > changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to
> > 3 days from now.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
|
| 133 |
From: Jim Robbins <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 2:51pm
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format
|
| |
----- Original Message -----
From: <peter.grierson@s...>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:33 AM
>
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the
> year on the line below Month-Day.
>
> MM-DD
> YYYY
>
> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no
> indication it was over a year a way.
This would be a good use for color or font formatting (bold, italics,
underline). Change the color or style of the text when the date isn't in the
current year.
Jim
|
| 134 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Thu Feb 1, 2001 6:27pm
Subject: Announcing a new mailing list.. Shadow-desktop!
|
| |
Shadow's companion applications are not available to the public
yet, and are only now getting ready to be handed out to alpha testers. But
as normal, I believe the user should be involved early and often so that
products are designed for them and not for me. If you'd like to talk about
or help create the desktop conduit or application, join this new mailing
list.
http://shadow.skeleton.org/mailman/listinfo/shadow-desktop
Immediate goals will be discussing the conduit. The conduits goal
in life is to syncronize your Shadow Plan handheld lists to your
desktop. A tool included with the conduit will allow export of the desktop
data into files usable by other desktop applications (like MSWord or
MSProject, and others you suggest), as well as importing the changed files
back in. This should allow for a simple-few-step way of editting your
Shadow Plan files on your desktop.
Of course, once the conduit is stable and useful, I'll be working
on the Shadow Desktop application itself. But I'd like you to be able to
use existing applications in the mean time (or forever) as you see fit.
Join the mailing list and help me out!
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 135 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 2:26am
Subject: Wish for Shadow (fwd)
|
| |
Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming items
which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think about.
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
---------- Forwarded message ----------
After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer application, I
can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this email.
I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow can
handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of the
agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
someone else to do.
If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, possibly in
place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on the item
could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
'action item".
It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me to
select a person, and see all of the action items that had been assigned to
that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one meetings.
(Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items for that
person from many different meetings.)
To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is to
start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves off all
items checked as completed, but carries forward those not completed. It
should also add action items from the previous meeting as new agenda items
for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional items and
have a new agenda.
It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with MY NAME
on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, so I
could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of the
meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to do" and
calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I would like
to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do lists.)
One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I meet
with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action item be
given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that would show
up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to later make
the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar program
such as a floating event would be useful.
Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a printed
agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a desktop
machine, that could be easily handled.
If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and follow up
on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
Business runs on meetings.
|
| 136 |
From: Doug Roberts <doug@b...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 3:42pm
Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)
|
| |
As I read through many of these suggestions, I'm struck more and more how
close they resemble the Windows Application: ECCO. ECCO is no longer
supported, but developed a loyal and dedicated following s an outline-based
PIM. I don't know if it is even possible to buy it anymore. It could
accomplish most of what is requested below. Did anyone use this program
besides me? I now use Outlook, but finding Shadow reminds me of the many
features I miss from ECCO.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:27 PM
To: shadow-discuss@j...
Cc: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Wish for Shadow (fwd)
Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming items
which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think about.
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
---------- Forwarded message ----------
After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer application, I
can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this email.
I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow can
handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of the
agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
someone else to do.
If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, possibly in
place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on the item
could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
'action item".
It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me to
select a person, and see all of the action items that had been assigned to
that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one meetings.
(Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items for that
person from many different meetings.)
To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is to
start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves off all
items checked as completed, but carries forward those not completed. It
should also add action items from the previous meeting as new agenda items
for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional items and
have a new agenda.
It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with MY NAME
on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, so I
could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of the
meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to do" and
calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I would like
to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do lists.)
One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I meet
with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action item be
given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that would show
up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to later make
the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar program
such as a floating event would be useful.
Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a printed
agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a desktop
machine, that could be easily handled.
If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and follow up
on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
Business runs on meetings.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
|
| 137 |
From: kencn@a...
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 6:16pm
Subject: Some relatively minor suggestions
|
| |
Is it possible to add one more level to the auto-numbering options in
the List preferences. I seem to have a number of outlines that go 4
levels deep. I promise not to ask for 5 levels after you add a
fourth.
Also on the auto-numbering function, how about the option to specifiy
a dash as well as bullets (or a user-defined bullet character).
Definitely not a biggie but I like to mix up bullet characters.
Having the export function include the numbers or bullets would be
nice as well. I'm looking to the conduit for more comprehensive
export needs but including numbering on the palm side export would be
helpful.
How about the ability to define an outline level as a "heading-only"
level. For instance, when I import todos, the category headings have
priorities and check boxes and I'd just as soon not have those
displayed on those top-level entries. I'm sure many people want
those attributes displayed so it would need to be an option - maybe
defined in the List Preferences on a level by level basis like the
auto-numbering. It could also be handled like Progect does by
letting each outline entry have its own format but that is more
flexibility and complexity than I think is really necessary.
Maybe this has come up before but I'm not sure I understand why
Tasklists have both check boxes and progress bars. They seem
somewhat redundant and the checkboxes take up valuable screen space.
I realize this can be handled with a custom list so maybe it's not a
big deal but it seems like only having the progress bars is a more
reasonable default.
Anyway, that's it for now. Looking forward to the conduit and the
next release of your brilliant app.
Ken
|
| 138 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 7:08pm
Subject: Re: Some relatively minor suggestions
|
| |
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 kencn@a... wrote:
> Is it possible to add one more level to the auto-numbering options in
> the List preferences. I seem to have a number of outlines that go 4
> levels deep. I promise not to ask for 5 levels after you add a
> fourth.
Eventually I will be implementing a suggestions from months
ago; to add a list pref allowing you to lock all levels to the same. So
you'll be able to predefine 1,2,3, but for other levels you could have a
lock, and when you change an item on any level 4 (say), all level 4 items
would change to that same formatting. (As opposed to now, where each
sublevel > 3 has its own scheme)
> Also on the auto-numbering function, how about the option to specifiy
> a dash as well as bullets (or a user-defined bullet character).
> Definitely not a biggie but I like to mix up bullet characters.
Hmm. So inside of a sublevel, you'd like to have different kinds
of bullets? I knew that was coming eventually ;)
Someone draw up some small bullet images, and maybe I'll do it ;)
> Having the export function include the numbers or bullets would be
> nice as well. I'm looking to the conduit for more comprehensive
> export needs but including numbering on the palm side export would be
> helpful.
Yeah; the current import/export stuff is very handy, but leaves
somethign to be desired. The conduit should offer many more options, and I
will enhance the on-palm options.
> How about the ability to define an outline level as a "heading-only"
> level. For instance, when I import todos, the category headings have
> priorities and check boxes and I'd just as soon not have those
> displayed on those top-level entries. I'm sure many people want
> those attributes displayed so it would need to be an option - maybe
> defined in the List Preferences on a level by level basis like the
> auto-numbering. It could also be handled like Progect does by
> letting each outline entry have its own format but that is more
> flexibility and complexity than I think is really necessary.
I will be adding a mixed-view system soon; currently you can
customize the view, or chose an overall view. I'll be adding the ability
to override an item with a different view (including cusotm views!), which
ought to be more flexibility than anyone will know what to do with :)
> Maybe this has come up before but I'm not sure I understand why
> Tasklists have both check boxes and progress bars. They seem
> somewhat redundant and the checkboxes take up valuable screen space.
> I realize this can be handled with a custom list so maybe it's not a
> big deal but it seems like only having the progress bars is a more
> reasonable default.
Its nice to know how far an item is. Eventually it is completed
and checked off.. but it snice to see how far along various things
are. Checking them off is an easy way to filter them out.
TiredJeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 139 |
From: kencn@a...
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 8:07pm
Subject: Re: Some relatively minor suggestions
|
| |
Jeff,
> > Also on the auto-numbering function, how about the option to
> > specifiy a dash as well as bullets (or a user-defined bullet
> > character). Definitely not a biggie but I like to mix up bullet
> > characters.
>
> Hmm. So inside of a sublevel, you'd like to have different
> kinds of bullets? I knew that was coming eventually ;)
Actually I was just looking for different bullets at different levels
- not mixed bullets within the same sub-level. Purely for cosmetic
reasons. Mixing bullets within a sublevel might be useful if the
various bullets were being used to signify something but then I'd
probably prefer using Datebk4 (or ActionNames) icons like Progect
does.
The rest of the stuff sounds great, particularly the mixed view
support.
> TiredJeff
Gee, I wonder why... I'm thinking of posting my next suggestion at
3am just to see if you'll answer that in 30 minutes or less too.
Thanks again.
Ken
|
| 140 |
From: BYRON E ALLGOOD <1POPOLO@P...>
Date: Fri Feb 2, 2001 8:20pm
Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)
|
| |
Yessss,
Jeff this would be AAAwesome ,Pleaese find a way to impliment this
functionality!!!!
What When Where are covered
"Who" issues are so often overlooked.
Meeting follow-up, task delegation, tool. Yes.
-----Original Message-----
From: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:44 AM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [shadow-discuss] Digest Number 23
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Relative vs absolute dates
From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
2. Re: Date Display / Date Format
From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
3. Announcing a new mailing list.. Shadow-desktop!
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
4. Wish for Shadow (fwd)
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:45:29 -0500
From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
Subject: Re: Relative vs absolute dates
To choose the relative date I would have something similar to your current
date chooser. So, the choices could be No Time, 1 day, 2 days, 3 days, 1
week, choose date.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Mitchell" <support@s...>
To: <shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <shadow-discuss@j...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Relative vs absolute dates
>
> A few people have brought this up recently. What sort of relative
> options are needed? (ie: Are relative items always short, ot can they be
> long? Do I need a fast selector with 1,2,5,7 days, 1, 2, 3 months, 1,2, 3
> weeks, and "pick from comprehensive" which would allow oyu to specify
> arbitrary dayes/units?
>
> Its an interesting idea. I've CC'd shadow-discuss mailing list
> (as well as forum) to get maximum exposure..
>
> jeff
>
> On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 web_egroups@r... wrote:
>
> > I would like to see an option to have all the children of a node use
> > relative dates instead of absolute dates. For instance, if I have
> > several tasks that make up a deliverable, I would like to assign a
> > completion time to each task. Currently I have to select each task
> > and give it an absolute target date. That means that if the tasks get
> > rearranged or modified I have to change the target dates on all the
> > following tasks.
> >
> > What I would like to see is an option to set a target duration of n
> > days. Then, when the previous task is completed, or when a start date
> > is set (which ever makes more sense), a true target date could be
> > set. When using a linked ToDo entry, the task would be undated until
> > it was actually started, at which time the true target date (based
> > off the task duration) would be set.
> >
> > For the UI, I would remove a couple of lines from the details and
> > have radio buttons to set the target as absolute or relative. The
> > active radio button would affect the options displayed in the Target
> > drop-down list box. When changing from an absolute target to a
> > relative one, use some intelligence to keep the date. For instance,
> > assuming the target was a relative duration of 3 days, if the user
> > changes the target to absolute then it should set the target date to
> > 3 days from now.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:51:38 -0500
From: "Jim Robbins" <web_egroups@r...>
Subject: Re: Date Display / Date Format
----- Original Message -----
From: <peter.grierson@s...>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 1:33 AM
>
> Date Display:
> Would it be [is it] possible to have the date column also display the
> year on the line below Month-Day.
>
> MM-DD
> YYYY
>
> I ask because I entered a date for the year 2002 and there was no
> indication it was over a year a way.
This would be a good use for color or font formatting (bold, italics,
underline). Change the color or style of the text when the date isn't in the
current year.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:27:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Announcing a new mailing list.. Shadow-desktop!
Shadow's companion applications are not available to the public
yet, and are only now getting ready to be handed out to alpha testers. But
as normal, I believe the user should be involved early and often so that
products are designed for them and not for me. If you'd like to talk about
or help create the desktop conduit or application, join this new mailing
list.
http://shadow.skeleton.org/mailman/listinfo/shadow-desktop
Immediate goals will be discussing the conduit. The conduits goal
in life is to syncronize your Shadow Plan handheld lists to your
desktop. A tool included with the conduit will allow export of the desktop
data into files usable by other desktop applications (like MSWord or
MSProject, and others you suggest), as well as importing the changed files
back in. This should allow for a simple-few-step way of editting your
Shadow Plan files on your desktop.
Of course, once the conduit is stable and useful, I'll be working
on the Shadow Desktop application itself. But I'd like you to be able to
use existing applications in the mean time (or forever) as you see fit.
Join the mailing list and help me out!
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 21:26:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Subject: Wish for Shadow (fwd)
Some very interesting ideas; I've replied with the upcoming items
which will solve half of these.. but some good stuff here to think about.
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
---------- Forwarded message ----------
After investigating nearly every possible Palm organizer application, I
can't find one that does what I need. Yours comes close, hence this email.
I conduct lots of meetings. We start with an agenda, which Shadow can
handle fine as a hierarchal list. But during the meeting, most of the
agenda items need to become become action items that get assigned to
someone else to do.
If Shadow offered a pop-up of a list of people for each item, possibly in
place of the date, that would make it possible to quickly make an
assignment to a given person. I suppose the action to be taken on the item
could be in a note or better in a lower level item identified as the
'action item".
It would then be great if a view could be created which allowed me to
select a person, and see all of the action items that had been assigned to
that person. That would be great for follow-up in one on one meetings.
(Even more powerful would be if this view picked the action items for that
person from many different meetings.)
To prepare an agenda for a subsequent meeting, the best approach is to
start with the previous meeting agenda and make a copy which leaves off all
items checked as completed, but carries forward those not completed. It
should also add action items from the previous meeting as new agenda items
for follow-up. After the follow-ups, I could write in additional items and
have a new agenda.
It would be nice to be able to link the items from the meeting with MY NAME
on them, in the pull down list, to my own to do list and calendar, so I
could keep track of all the things I'm supposed to do from all of the
meetings I attend or conduct. But I don't want to clutter my "to do" and
calendar with all the items assigned to other people. (Heck, I would like
to beam them to others so they could have them on their to do lists.)
One of the very frequent to do items from a meeting requires that I meet
with someone in an appointment. So being able to have the action item be
given an appointment date and time for a follow-up meeting that would show
up on my calendar would be great. Sometimes my secretary has to later make
the exact time and date, so an "undated" addition to the calendar program
such as a floating event would be useful.
Most who attend the meetings don't have palms. So we still need a printed
agenda. If I could sync an agenda list I created on my palm to a desktop
machine, that could be easily handled.
If you could help me organize action items assigned to others and follow up
on meetings, you would take Shadow beyond the concept of a Personal
organizer and into the realm of a powerful business management tool.
Business runs on meetings.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
|
| 141 |
From: Peter Bulthuis <bulthuis@c...>
Date: Sun Feb 4, 2001 1:41am
Subject: Icons in Shadow
|
| |
Hello.
I would like to have icons in Shadow, just like Datebk4. It gives you a
quicker view to a todo-item what it means: i.e. a phonecall, an e-mail or a
meeting. Further, it would be nice when you can filter on a specific icon,
so you have only the phonecall-todo's in your display.
Maybe it's possible to use the DateBk3-items, so you can link them easy to
DateBk4.
Peter B
|
| 142 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Sun Feb 4, 2001 6:02pm
Subject: Re: Icons in Shadow
|
| |
On Sun, 4 Feb 2001, Peter Bulthuis wrote:
> I would like to have icons in Shadow, just like Datebk4. It gives you a
> quicker view to a todo-item what it means: i.e. a phonecall, an e-mail or a
> meeting. Further, it would be nice when you can filter on a specific icon,
> so you have only the phonecall-todo's in your display.
> Maybe it's possible to use the DateBk3-items, so you can link them easy to
> DateBk4.
This is planned; funny, I got a bunch of emails yesterday about
this :) I'm not sure if Action Names publishes their formats, but CESD
made available the format for his icon files, so I'll likely add support
for them soon. They'd be fun, at any rate.. I'm just not sure about
colour<->B&W mappings and such.. (ie: If you have a colour icon, and then
view it on mono display.. what happens? Or is it a separate set of icon
files for different depth devices?)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 143 |
From: cfralick@i...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 3:42am
Subject: Just a thought.
|
| |
I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for
something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One thing
I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any
suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything
except it's the first thing people see when the look at their
launcher.
|
| 144 |
From: Jeff Mitchell <support@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 3:59am
Subject: Re: Just a thought.
|
| |
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:
> I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for
> something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One thing
> I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any
> suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything
> except it's the first thing people see when the look at their
> launcher.
Mainly due to their being B&W, grayscale, and colour icon sets,
and my not being a fantastic pixel artist :) Should I have a cool
logo? Maybe, but I've not decided on any of the ones I've come up with,
and they wouldnt' scale down that small anyway...
Hmm.. it is somethign to think about though :)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 145 |
From: Doug Roberts <doug@b...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 4:08am
Subject: RE: Just a thought.
|
| |
I think the application icon is very good -- don't change it!
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mitchell [mailto:support@s...]
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 9:00 PM
To: shadow-discuss@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [shadow-discuss] Just a thought.
On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:
> I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for
> something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One thing
> I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any
> suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything
> except it's the first thing people see when the look at their
> launcher.
Mainly due to their being B&W, grayscale, and colour icon sets,
and my not being a fantastic pixel artist :) Should I have a cool
logo? Maybe, but I've not decided on any of the ones I've come up with,
and they wouldnt' scale down that small anyway...
Hmm.. it is somethign to think about though :)
jeff
--
"It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own micro
circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he is?"
-- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
shadow-discuss-unsubscribe@egroups.com
|
| 146 |
From: tommyb@i...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 4:44am
Subject: Re: Icons in Shadow
|
| |
db4 does not support color icons - it lets you colorize b&w icons.
CESD has posted about the difficulty of maintaining backward
compatibility, and decided against implementing color icons at this
time.
tommyb
I'm just not sure about colour<->B&W mappings and such.. (ie: If you
have a colour icon, and then view it on mono display.. what happens?
Or is it a separate set of icon files for different depth devices?)
>
> jeff
|
| 147 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:50am
Subject: Re: Just a thought.
|
| |
I like it, too...
Maybe we should facilitate the "Polls" section of groups.yahoo.com? :)
Martin
--- In shadow-discuss@y..., Jeff Mitchell <support@s...> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 cfralick@i... wrote:
>
> > I really like shadow! I always recommend it to anyone looking for
> > something close to what it can do. Keep up the great work. One
thing
> > I'd like to know is why there isn't a more unique icon. Any
> > suggestions? Ideas? Thought? It's not a major feature or anything
> > except it's the first thing people see when the look at their
> > launcher.
>
> Mainly due to their being B&W, grayscale, and colour icon
sets,
> and my not being a fantastic pixel artist :) Should I have a cool
> logo? Maybe, but I've not decided on any of the ones I've come up
with,
> and they wouldnt' scale down that small anyway...
>
> Hmm.. it is somethign to think about though :)
>
> jeff
>
> --
> "It's murder out there. You can't even travel around in your own
micro
> circuits without permission from 'Master Control Program'. I mean,
> sending *ME* down here to play games.... Who does he calculate he
is?"
> -- Peter Jurasik as Crom, _Tron_
|
| 148 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:54am
Subject: Shadow Startup mode
|
| |
Just a quick question about the way the application is started - do
you something unusual there?
I'm wondering, since the LaunchEm App Hack, a quick start panel that
shows the most used and most recent applications, doesn't show Shadow
at all.
Since I use this feature often, e.g. to toggle between the last two
apps, this is somewhat annoying....
Any ideas?
Martin
|
| 149 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:55am
Subject: Time Attribute
|
| |
Jeff, do you maintain creation times as well as dates? It would be an
interesting option to display as well, e.g. when it comes to track
events in a protocol.
Martin
|
| 150 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 7:57am
Subject: How to open notes
|
| |
This might have been discussed before, but I missed it - it would be
a great improvement if expanded notes in list view mode would lead to
an opened note editor, if double-tapped. The current reaction is to
open the item title editor.
Martin
|
| 151 |
From: martin_jahr@h...
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 8:00am
Subject: Display preferences as file attribute
|
| |
I would like to see all of the display option as an attribute set per
_database_, not as a global setting. This would allow to display each
different type of notes in an appropriate way.
(this is the last one for now, promised :)
Just out of curiosity - Jeff, how do you keep track of all
those "change requests"?
Martin
|
| 152 |
From: Peter Grierson <peter.grierson@s...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 11:06am
Subject: Re: Wish for Shadow [ECCO]
|
| |
Several months ago I check with Netmanage on progress with finding a buyer
for ECCO. They said they were still looking.
At that time, it was still possible to order ECCO (with no Support).
http://www.netmanage.com/
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:42:36 -0700
From: "Doug Roberts" <doug@b...>
Subject: RE: Wish for Shadow (fwd)
As I read through many of these suggestions, I'm struck more and more how
close they resemble the Windows Application: ECCO. ECCO is no longer
supported, but developed a loyal and dedicated following s an outline-based
PIM. I don't know if it is even possible to buy it anymore. It could
accomplish most of what is requested below. Did anyone use this program
besides me? I now use Outlook, but finding Shadow reminds me of the many
features I miss from ECCO.
|
| 153 |
From: Jim Robbins <web_egroups@r...>
Date: Mon Feb 5, 2001 0:47pm
Subject: | |
